Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-01-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
23:00 woolfy1 It's a lot of Perl and a lot of other open source, it is very big: Fosdem.  http://wendyga.wordpress.com/2014/01/26/fosdem-perl-devroom-schedule-1feb2014-and-booth-12feb2014/
23:01 woolfy1 And we will have diakopter doing two 20 minute talks about MoarVM, and jnthn doing a 60 minute closing talk about all that'
23:01 woolfy1 s possible in Perl 6.
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: d6a93b0 | larry++ | src/core/List.pm:
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: fix for .combinations timeout
23:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d6a93b06f2
23:05 arnsholt joined #perl6
23:07 konnjuta joined #perl6
23:08 jnthn woolfy1: Yeah! I even am quite a long way into preparing for that :)
23:09 woolfy1 jnthn++   ftw   \o/
23:10 woolfy1 I am looking forward to see that, but I think it will be busy at the booth (cleaning up for the evening), so I am afraid I am going to miss it, and I have to depend on the video that I hope will be made (Theo is the man)...
23:28 daniel-s joined #perl6
23:30 perigrin jnthn: remember if the talk goes well you'll still have time to submit it to YAPC::NA!
23:30 * perigrin hides.
23:34 colomon jnthn++ diakopter++
23:34 colomon perigrin++
23:34 jnthn But...the heat...the humidity...
23:35 jnthn ...and the other stuff I've said I'll do in June. :)
23:39 * colomon must admit his preferred time to visit Orlando is early November.
23:40 woolfy1 jnthn: you told me you would definitely go to Orlando!
23:41 woolfy1 jnthn: Oh wait, you said you would probably be too bust with other stuff.  :-)
23:41 woolfy1 s/bust/busy/
23:41 xinming joined #perl6
23:43 jnthn Well, and I did YAPC::NA last year. I try to go to different ones over the years.
23:44 colomon we'd certainly love to get you back over to the States.
23:44 jnthn colomon: Get places with sensible temperatures to bid! ;)
23:44 woolfy1 jnthn: if you won't go, Liz and I will be very lonely there...  :-)
23:45 jnthn woolfy1: What, with all the other Perl people who'll be there? :)
23:45 konnjuta [nam@namcntperl pl6]$ perl -e 'print pack("H*","41E282AC42") . "\n" .  pack("H*","41E282AC42") . "\n"' > /tmp/utffile [nam@namcntperl pl6]$ perl6 -e 'lines.ords.fmt("U+%04x").uc.say' < /tmp/utffile U+0041 U+20AC U+0042 U+0020 U+0041 U+20AC U+0042 [nam@namcntperl pl6]$ perl6 -e 'lines>>.ords.fmt("U+%04x").uc.say' < /tmp/utffile U+0041 U+20AC U+0042 U+0041 U+20AC U+0042
23:45 konnjuta [nam@namcntperl pl6]$ perl -e 'print pack("H*","41E282AC42") . "\n" .  pack("H*","41E282AC42") . "\n"' > /tmp/utffile
23:45 konnjuta [nam@namcntperl pl6]$ perl6 -e 'lines.ords.fmt("U+%04x").uc.say' < /tmp/utffile
23:45 woolfy1 jnthn: nah, only you are important.  You can drive a bike and pet a cat and drink good beer, so you are THE ONE.
23:45 konnjuta U+0041 U+20AC U+0042 U+0020 U+0041 U+20AC U+0042
23:46 konnjuta [nam@namcntperl pl6]$ perl6 -e 'lines>>.ords.fmt("U+%04x").uc.say' < /tmp/utffile
23:46 konnjuta U+0041 U+20AC U+0042 U+0041 U+20AC U+0042
23:46 jnthn .oO( I can't actually remember how I steered the bike, with the hands taken up with the cat and the beer... )
23:46 konnjuta carriage returns seems to be missing left out when using lines.
23:47 konnjuta can some explain this behaviour?
23:47 woolfy1 :-)
23:47 jnthn konnjuta: lines auto-chomps
23:48 konnjuta is there a function that doesn't?
23:50 jnthn No, it's actually associated with the file handle, iirc...
23:50 skids joined #perl6
23:50 jnthn open('-', :!chomp).lines
23:51 konnjuta ok thanks
23:53 daniel-s joined #perl6
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00:15 clsn Whyfor aren't ⸨⸩ considered a bracketing pair?  They're Ps/Pe and all.  But they aren't in  the lists of openers/closers in Rakudo or in Std.  I think there are others too.  Std does mention in a comment that the list should be based directly on Unicode tables, but isn't yet.
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00:27 TimToady clsn: it was not added till Unicode 5.1, so probably after we generated that list
00:29 TimToady the STD list was just copied out of pugs, which came even ealier
00:29 TimToady *earlier
00:29 TimToady feel free to automate that now that we actually have Unicode props :)
00:31 smls Does P6 support P5-style subpattern recursion within a single regex (i.e. without defining a full-fledged grammar with multiple tokens)?
00:32 TimToady in theory
00:33 jnthn Well, you can always define it as my token foo { ... <&foo> ... } or so to lighten it
00:33 jnthn Otherwise there's <~~>
00:33 TimToady I think smls is looking more for <~~1> and such to reuse whatever matched $1
00:33 jnthn Ah
00:33 jnthn I'm not sure that's implemented
00:33 smls see http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Balanced_brackets#Perl for example
00:34 jnthn 'cus it's...hard to do.
00:34 smls subpattern recursion allows the P5 solution to be nice and pretty :)
00:34 jnthn Like many other things, but this one is rarely asked for :)
00:35 smls sub balanced { shift =~ /^ (\[ (?1)* \])* $/x; }
00:35 timotimo hard to do? :(
00:35 * timotimo has a hard-to-do thing already on his plate
00:35 smls well ok, in my editor with syntax highlighting it looks nice :)
00:38 jnthn timotimo: It's not greedy to have more than one... :P
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00:39 smls in this example, P5 subpattern-recursion vs P6 grammars is just a stylistic difference
00:39 smls but the P5 recursion allows backtracking across subpatterns
00:39 smls and P6 tokens prevent that, right?
00:42 jnthn token does, regex don't
00:42 smls ah ok
00:44 TimToady but you don't really want backtracking here anyway
00:44 TimToady the current P6 solution using a grammar is busted, fixing
00:44 smls yeah, that's why I said in this example there's no difference
00:46 TimToady see new http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Balanced_brackets#Parsing_with_a_grammar
00:47 TimToady reduced the grammar to a one-liner
00:47 TimToady since TOP now implicitly checks ^ and $
00:47 TimToady or rather, .parse does
00:48 smls nifty :)
00:50 TimToady in fact, wouldn't work if TOP implicitly checked, since we call TOP recursively
00:52 smls Of course the main problem with P5 recursive regexes, is that they discard all information about what they matched - except for the *last* *top-level* match of each capture group.
00:55 grondilu TimToady: isn't there a way to shorten brace expansion as well?  I suspect the "meta" rule is not really necessary.
00:56 TimToady grondilu: I couldn't make it work; the different terminators mess up the levels
00:57 TimToady and doing things like passing a $level arg didn't seem to pan out
00:57 TimToady also, didn't work with the '{' ~ '}' idiom
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00:58 TimToady because that commits in a way that seems detrimental to backtracking
00:58 TimToady I tried a *lot* of things before the initial entry...
00:59 TimToady though most of that was trying to build up the X during the parse, which didn't work out well at all, because I think rakudo is biased towards action routines that are not inlined
00:59 TimToady so I ended up with a separate walker
01:00 grondilu well, if there's room for improvement, someone will find them eventually.
01:00 jnthn TimToady: If you tried it on JVM, until a couple of weeks ago there was a serious bug with closures inside of regexes.
01:00 TimToady the walker could probably be simplified/obfuscated too to make it "pointless"
01:00 jnthn TimToady: Which could well have gotten in the way of inline actions
01:00 TimToady but I didn't want to explain [X~]
01:01 TimToady I tried it on all three, in fact
01:01 TimToady dunno what I was running into
01:01 TimToady but { make ... } would not pass an ast up
01:01 TimToady and all my attempts to set a $<foo> directly met with failure
01:02 TimToady it's probably better to do it outside with a separate walker anyway, because then you don't have to throw stuff away on backtracking
01:02 timotimo oh my
01:02 timotimo "not" xx not $balanced
01:02 TimToady smls: yes, we notice that problem with P5, which is why P6 does it differently :)
01:03 * TimToady grins at timotimo
01:03 smls :)
01:03 TimToady you can do the same trick, kinda, in P5
01:03 TimToady only of course it's x there
01:03 konnjuta how many types of encoding does rakudo currently have?
01:04 TimToady three: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
01:05 TimToady seriously, it's probably highly platform dependent at the moment
01:06 jnthn Yeah, I think it'll depend by backend somewhat
01:06 jnthn I imagine latin-1, ascii and utf-8 can re relied upon to exist
01:07 konnjuta is it possible to create custom encoding?
01:07 konnjuta say come up with my own charmps
01:07 konnjuta to read legacy data
01:08 TimToady r: say "foo".encode('ISO-8858-15').decode('UTF-8')
01:08 timotimo that's backend-specific, but there should be a way; even if not yet
01:08 camelia rakudo-jvm d6a93b: OUTPUT«Unknown encoding 'iso-8858-15'␤  in method encode at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:6275␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:08 camelia ..rakudo-parrot d6a93b: OUTPUT«encoding #-1 not found␤  in method encode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6279␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:08 camelia ..rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«Unknown string encoding: 'iso-8858-15'␤  in method encode at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6275␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:09 TimToady not "euro"-centric :)
01:09 TimToady r: say "foo".encode('ISO-8858-1').decode('UTF-8')
01:09 camelia rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«Unknown string encoding: 'iso-8858-1'␤  in method encode at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6275␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:09 camelia ..rakudo-jvm d6a93b: OUTPUT«Unknown encoding 'iso-8858-1'␤  in method encode at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:6275␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:09 camelia ..rakudo-parrot d6a93b: OUTPUT«encoding #-1 not found␤  in method encode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6279␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:09 TimToady oops
01:09 TimToady r: say "foo".encode('ISO-8859-1').decode('UTF-8')
01:09 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«foo␤»
01:09 TimToady r: say "foo".encode('ISO-8859-15').decode('UTF-8')
01:09 camelia rakudo-jvm d6a93b: OUTPUT«Unknown encoding 'iso-8859-15'␤  in method encode at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:6275␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:09 camelia ..rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«Unknown string encoding: 'iso-8859-15'␤  in method encode at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6275␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:09 camelia ..rakudo-parrot d6a93b: OUTPUT«encoding #-1 not found␤  in method encode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6279␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:10 TimToady n: say "foo".encode('ISO-8859-15').decode('UTF-8')
01:10 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«foo␤»
01:10 TimToady niecza++
01:11 TimToady n: say "foo".encode('UTF-32')
01:11 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Buf.new(...)␤»
01:12 TimToady n: say "foo".encode('UTF-32').chrs
01:12 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot unbox a BigInteger from an object of repr P6box[Byte[]]␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1496 (chr @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1498 (ANON @ 4) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (KERNEL map …»
01:12 TimToady huh
01:12 TimToady n: say "foo".encode('UTF-32')[]
01:12 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Buf.new(...)␤»
01:12 TimToady n: say "foo".encode('UTF-32')[*]
01:12 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Buf.new(...)␤»
01:13 konnjuta perl6 -e 'open("-",:!chomp).lines>>.encode("ascii").say' < /tmp/utffile
01:13 TimToady sigh
01:13 konnjuta Lossy conversion to single byte encoding   in method encode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6277   in method dispatch:<hyper> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:1245   in block  at -e:1
01:13 konnjuta can't lossy conversion be done with a subchar?
01:13 TimToady n: say "foo".encode('UTF-32')[^3]
01:13 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Buf.new(...) (Any) (Any)␤»
01:13 TimToady p: say "foo".encode('UTF-32')[^3]
01:13 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b: OUTPUT«encoding #-1 not found␤  in method encode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6279␤  in block  at /tmp/zo6MU4Vysi:1␤␤»
01:13 TimToady that message is LTA
01:14 jnthn r: say "foo".encode('UTF-32')[^3]
01:14 camelia rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«Unknown string encoding: 'utf32'␤  in method encode at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6275␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:14 camelia ..rakudo-jvm d6a93b: OUTPUT«102 111 111␤»
01:14 camelia ..rakudo-parrot d6a93b: OUTPUT«encoding #-1 not found␤  in method encode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6279␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:14 jnthn Moar message seems better, and it works on JVM
01:15 TimToady j: say "foo".encode('UTF-32').chrs
01:15 camelia rakudo-jvm d6a93b: OUTPUT«No such method 'chrs' for invocant of type 'utf32'␤  in block  at /tmp/2Vm7XH8XTP:1␤␤»
01:15 jnthn What does .chrs on a Buf mean?
01:15 TimToady nothin'
01:15 jnthn OK, so that's correct... :)
01:16 TimToady j: say "foo".encode('UTF-32').list
01:16 camelia rakudo-jvm d6a93b: OUTPUT«102 111 111␤»
01:16 konnjuta lta = long term abuse?
01:17 TimToady less than awesome
01:17 jnthn haha :)
01:17 TimToady http://perlcabal.org/syn/S99.html#LTA
01:18 TimToady hah: 17:17 < TimToady> less than awesome
01:18 TimToady 17:17 < jnthn> haha :)
01:18 TimToady 17:17 < TimToady> http://perlcabal.org/syn/S99.html#LTA
01:18 TimToady er, wrong paste
01:18 jnthn haha :)
01:19 TimToady but if you follow that link, you'll find an autopun
01:19 arnsholt joined #perl6
01:20 timotimo hm. i wonder if :!chomp would have helped me ~1 year ago when i tried to handle $a_socket.lines on top of parrot
01:20 TimToady though as definitions go, it's a bit LTA
01:22 timotimo (the problem i ran into was not being able to differentiate "a full buffer's read, or just one line that ended on a newline"
01:23 timotimo and since i was reading some json data that was sent to me via the wire, i ran into some trouble trying to parse it ...
01:29 rurban2 joined #perl6
01:35 konnjuta r: "\x41".print
01:35 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«A»
01:36 konnjuta r: "\x41\xE2\x82\xAC".print
01:36 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«A€»
01:44 lue joined #perl6
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01:55 TimToady grondilu: I added a point-free version of crosswalk at the end of the http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Brace_expansion entry for Perl 6
01:55 * TimToady wonders why it doesn't build a TOC till there's four languages...
02:05 konnjuta perl -e 'print "\x41\xE2\x82\xAC"' | perl -le 'print unpack("H*",<>)'
02:05 konnjuta 41e282ac
02:05 konnjuta perl6 -e 'print "\x41\xE2\x82\xAC"' | perl -le 'print unpack("H*",<>)'
02:06 konnjuta 41c3a2c282c2ac
02:06 konnjuta whats happening here?
02:07 skids wide unicode characters?
02:08 jnthn \xE2 in a string refers to Unicode code-point E2, not a byte E2
02:08 jnthn If you want to work with bytes, use Buf, not strings.
02:08 smls TimToady: yikes, what happened to this solution: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/First-class_functions#Perl_6
02:09 konnjuta thank you
02:10 jnthn yay, I think I'm an hour so so's more work of having a deliverable FOSDEM talk.
02:10 jnthn I guess that means I should get some sleep before the flight.. :)
02:10 jnthn 'night, #perl6
02:11 skids sleep tight.  Don't let the unicode byte
02:17 smls TimToady: never mind, I fixed it.
02:21 smls left #perl6
02:25 kbaker joined #perl6
02:34 FROGGS joined #perl6
02:38 Alula joined #perl6
02:38 TimToady smash: yeah, someone was using a bad browser and/or editor that thought it would helpfully decode to ASCII
02:39 TimToady I saw them getting told in another discussion page somewhere, so it shouldn't happen again soon
02:39 TimToady but we'll need to keep our eyes peeled for other such damage
02:42 TimToady didn't ingy++ have a download stashed somewhere?
02:44 TimToady or maybe I can figure out whose edits did it and look at those pages
02:44 regreg joined #perl6
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03:22 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).pick(*).join.say
03:22 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«[][][][][]␤»
03:22 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).pick(*).join.say
03:22 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«[][][][][]␤»
03:22 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).pick(*).elem
03:22 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«No such method 'elem' for invocant of type 'List'␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:23 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).pick(*).elems
03:23 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: ( no output )
03:23 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).pick(*).elems.say
03:23 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«5␤»
03:24 lue Apparently I signed up for RosettaCode way back in 2010 :P
03:28 konnjuta seems like list is not flatten?
03:29 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).pick(*).list.elems.say
03:29 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«5␤»
03:29 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).list.pick(*).elems.say
03:29 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«5␤»
03:30 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).list.elems.say
03:30 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«5␤»
03:31 konnjuta r: @(<[ ]> xx 5).list.elems.say
03:31 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«5␤»
03:36 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).flat.elems.say
03:36 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«10␤»
03:37 konnjuta r: my @a=(<[ ]> xx 5);
03:37 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: ( no output )
03:37 konnjuta @a.elems.say
03:37 konnjuta r: my @a=(<[ ]> xx 5); @a.elems.say
03:37 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«10␤»
03:37 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).elems.say
03:37 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«5␤»
03:40 raydiak r: my @a=(<[ ]> xx 5); @a.perl.say;
03:40 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«Array.new("[", "]", "[", "]", "[", "]", "[", "]", "[", "]")␤»
03:41 raydiak r: (<[ ]> xx 5).perl.say
03:41 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«(("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]")).list␤»
03:42 konnjuta seems like (<[ ]> xx 5) does not flatten
03:42 konnjuta r: (<[ ]> xx 5).flat.perl.say
03:42 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«("[", "]", "[", "]", "[", "]", "[", "]", "[", "]").list␤»
03:42 raydiak it's not supposed to flatten, it's a parcel until you assign it to something else, like an array
03:43 TimToady it's actually a parcel of 5 parcels
03:43 lue konnjuta: it does flatten when you use .flat
03:43 TimToady r: (<[ ]> xx 5).perl.say
03:43 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«(("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]")).list␤»
03:44 TimToady which is why I changed it for the RC entry
03:44 TimToady I note that the .roll($n*2) entries don't have this problem
03:44 TimToady otoh, they don't guarantee an even number of opening/closing brackets
03:45 TimToady which is okay for that problem
03:46 TimToady r: say pick, *, <[ ]> xx 5
03:46 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Calling 'pick' requires argumentsâ�¤    Expected any of:     :(Any $n, *@values)â�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32msay [33mâ��[31mpick, *, <[ ]>…»
03:46 TimToady r: say pick *, <[ ]> xx 5
03:46 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b: OUTPUT«[ ] [ ] ] [ ] [ ] [␤»
03:46 camelia ..rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«[ ] [ ] ] ] ] [ [ [␤»
03:46 camelia ..rakudo-jvm d6a93b: OUTPUT«[ ] ] ] [ ] [ [ ] [␤»
03:46 TimToady that works too
03:46 TimToady since a slurpy flattens
03:49 konnjuta under what condition in addition to (<[ ]> xx 5) does it no flatten?
03:50 TimToady parcels never flatten until bound into something that flattens it
03:50 konnjuta ok
03:50 TimToady and xx is defined to return a parcel for each iteration
03:50 TimToady the outer parens have nothing to do with it
03:51 TimToady r: given <[ ]> xx 5 { .perl.say }
03:51 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«(("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]")).list␤»
03:51 TimToady see, no outer parens, still not flat
03:52 TimToady r: given (((<[ ]> xx 5))) { .perl.say }
03:52 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«(("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]")).list␤»
03:52 TimToady extra parens don't matter either, unless there's a comma
03:52 TimToady r: given (((<[ ]> xx 5),),) { .perl.say }
03:52 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«(((("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]"), ("[", "]")).list,),)␤»
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05:18 TimToady okay, turned in my SOTO application for OSCON, though now I see that Geoffrey has also proposed it with the Lightning Talks
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06:04 konnjuta how to convert string to buf?
06:04 moritz with .encode
06:04 moritz with .encode($encoding) to be precise
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06:29 * lue grumbles in the direction of all things list-like in Perl 6
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06:35 * raydiak contemplates putting together a list behaviour matrix which crosses parcel, list, array, capture, etc, with mutable, lazy, flattening, context-imposing, and so forth
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06:41 TimToady revised http://rosettacode.org/wiki/ABC_Problem#Perl_6 to be correct in the face of different blocksets
06:41 lue I can make Nil disappear anytime I want to, so long as it's not the code I'm trying to fix >_<
06:42 konnjuta r: (<1 2>, <1 2>).WHAT
06:42 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: ( no output )
06:42 konnjuta r: (<1 2>, <1 2>).WHAT.say
06:42 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
06:42 konnjuta r: (<1 2>, <1 2>).elems.say
06:42 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«4␤»
06:43 konnjuta r: (<1 2>, <1 2>).list.WHAT.say
06:43 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
06:43 konnjuta r: (<1 2>, <1 2>).list.elems.say
06:43 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«2␤»
06:43 konnjuta r: (<1 2> xx 2 ).WHAT.say
06:43 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
06:43 konnjuta r: (<1 2> xx 2 ).elems.say
06:43 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«2␤»
06:44 konnjuta r: (<1 2> xx 2, ).WHAT.say
06:44 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
06:44 konnjuta r: (<1 2> xx 2, ).elems.say
06:44 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«4␤»
06:44 konnjuta So parcel flattens but list don't?
06:45 lue If someone can tell me why I can't make the Nils disappear, that'd be great:    https://gist.github.com/lue/2761b448d04219e23cc4
06:48 moritz how about not using 'make Nil' if you don't want Nils? :-)
06:49 TimToady what moritz sez
06:51 TimToady neither parcels nor lists are interested in flattening
06:51 TimToady it's how you use them
06:52 lue moritz: I haven't experimented as much with not doing make Nil, though I didn't have much success there either.
06:52 TimToady what do you want instead of the Nil?
06:53 lue nothing, that's why I was counting on Nil's "disappear from the array" trick
06:53 TimToady Nils have not disappeared from lists for most of a year now...
06:53 TimToady except as fossilized bugs
06:53 lue (the list will be turned into a Bag later, and I don't want (Any)=> to be an entry)
06:53 lue r: say (1, Nil, 3).Array
06:53 TimToady did you try () instead?
06:53 camelia rakudo-parrot d6a93b, rakudo-jvm d6a93b, rakudo-moar d6a93b: OUTPUT«1 3␤»
06:54 lue TimToady: no, testing...
06:54 TimToady interesting, something is itemizing it
06:57 TimToady I'm guessing there's an itemize somewhere in make, when maybe there shouldn't be
06:58 lue TimToady: that might explain it, $() and things refusing to flatten seem to be plaguing me at the moment.
06:59 lue It could be I'm using not-the-absolute-latest builds of rakudo, my p6 is 2014.01-25-gfd8316f
07:01 TimToady sub make(Mu $ast) {  <-- the $ is itemizing what you make, so () turns into $()
07:02 TimToady that should probably be using a \ instead of a $
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07:03 lue TimToady: replacing 'make Nil' with 'make ()' and using 'make $<word>».ast».Array.flat.Bag;' works for me.
07:05 TimToady testing a patch
07:09 * lue goes for the night
07:09 raydiak goodnight lue
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08:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 8128f6a | larry++ | src/core/Match.pm:
08:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't itemize make's ast argument
08:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8128f6a5aa
08:12 FROGGS morning
08:12 raydiak \o morning FROGGS
08:14 TimToady o/
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08:21 dalek rakudo/nom: 1d6accc | moritz++ | CREDITS:
08:21 dalek rakudo/nom: larry is typically known as TimToady++
08:21 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1d6acccc63
08:22 moritz 07:58 < lue> TimToady: that might explain it, $() and things refusing to flatten
08:22 moritz of course it doesn't flatten, it begins with a $ !
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08:58 hoelzro morning #perl6!
08:59 raydiak good morning hoelzro
08:59 hoelzro moritz: raydiak
09:03 timotimo i can sense making make not itemize by default is going to chang lots of user code
09:03 timotimo but i agree that it's more sensible to use \foo rather than $foo for make.
09:04 hoelzro oops
09:04 hoelzro that was supposed to be "morning raydiak" =P
09:05 timotimo why didn't it autocomplete to "mroing" or something? :P
09:05 bjz_ joined #perl6
09:05 raydiak b/c it's not a cellphone? :)
09:08 bjz joined #perl6
09:12 moritz because my nick isn't 'MRoing'
09:14 timotimo :)
09:20 timotimo can't you just interpolate @foobar into a regex?
09:20 timotimo rather than evaling "/" ~ .comb.join('|') ~ "/"?
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09:21 FROGGS timotimo: you can
09:21 FROGGS who says the opposite?
09:25 timotimo the ABC problem code from RC does that :)
09:25 timotimo gotta run now.
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09:39 masak mroing, #perl6
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09:40 FROGGS mroing mrask!
09:40 raydiak good method resolution order, masak
09:42 masak (masak) (RT-bot) (bot) (Mu)
09:47 masak "Blocks are stored as precompiled regexes." -- the code seems to have obsoleted the description here. http://rosettacode.org/wiki/ABC_Problem#Perl_6
09:48 masak oh wait.
09:48 masak no, there it is, EVAL and slashes.
09:48 masak never mind. :)
09:48 * masak ponders if macros could do that
09:49 diakopter macros can do anarthing
09:57 masak except when they can't
09:58 diakopter .. but you can do anything within a macro :)
09:59 masak hehe
09:59 masak by that argument, subs and class declarations can do anarthing too
10:00 diakopter classes can do subs!
10:00 diakopter subs can do classes!
10:00 diakopter such do
10:05 masak p: class C1 { has $.x = sub { my class C2 { has $.y = sub { say "OH HAI" } }; return C2 } }; C1.new.x()().new.y()()
10:05 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
10:05 masak \o/
10:06 diakopter lolz
10:06 moritz subs in attributes in clases in subs in attributes in classes
10:06 moritz such inception
10:28 * jnthn waves from l'airport
10:28 * FROGGS waves back from l'office
10:29 jnthn Late flight is late
10:29 jnthn Not much, thankfully
10:30 masak hi, jnthn from l'airport
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10:31 moritz L'ate flight is late :-)
10:31 moritz \o jnthn, FROGGS, *
10:32 jnthn J'ai l'ate un cookie
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10:33 * masak .oO( how l'ame )
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10:57 * masak sometimes wishes he could declare named lexical rules and invoke them from a // regex
10:58 FROGGS masak: what do you mean?
10:58 jnthn /<&foo>/ ?
10:59 dalek rakudo/nom: 1a44ca6 | jonathan++ | tools/build/Makefile-Moar.in:
10:59 dalek rakudo/nom: Install the debugger on MoarVM.
10:59 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1a44ca69ac
10:59 FROGGS p: my &foo = regex { \w+ }; say "ohh?" ~~ / <&foo> /
10:59 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc: OUTPUT«「ohh」␤␤»
11:00 jnthn r: my regex foo { \w+ }; say "ohh?" ~~ / <&foo> /
11:00 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc: OUTPUT«「ohh」␤␤»
11:00 diakopter masak: I wanted that so badly, I thought we already had it
11:01 jnthn OK, time to wander gate-wards I guess...
11:01 jnthn bbl
11:02 masak jnthn: I suspected there was a syntax for it, thanks.
11:02 * FROGGS resists to ask "Wie gates?"
11:02 masak haha
11:02 * masak .oO( look to gate-wards )
11:02 FROGGS r: my regex foo { \w+ }; say "ohh?" ~~ / <foo> /
11:02 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc: OUTPUT«「ohh」␤ foo => 「ohh」␤␤»
11:02 masak FROGGS++
11:02 FROGGS :o)
11:03 masak wow, I don't even need the &
11:03 FROGGS ENOSPECIALSYNTAX
11:03 FROGGS the hardest thing about it is the "my"
11:03 FROGGS though I think the errmsg would point you in the right direction nowadays
11:03 FROGGS r: regex foo { \w+ }; say "ohh?" ~~ / <foo> /
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 1d6acc: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my regex foo'?)␤No such method 'foo' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:12552␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:782␤  in bloc…»
11:03 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1d6acc: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my regex foo'?)␤No such method 'foo' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in regex  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in method ACCEPTS at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:12575␤  in method ACCEPTS at gen…»
11:03 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 1d6acc: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my regex foo'?)␤No such method 'foo' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in method ACCEPTS at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:12554␤  in method ACCEPTS at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:782␤  in block  at…»
11:04 FROGGS yeah :o)
11:05 masak wow, that made the code lots more readable. nice!
11:07 FROGGS yeah, I mean named captures already are nice in a sense of self-documenting code (/$<date>=.../), but declaring these rules somewhere and use these as captures is nice in several ways
11:08 masak indeed.
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11:12 * diakopter thinks the camelia smudger could make responses equivalent if they're errors and the first two lines of the error/backtrace are the same
11:13 masak aye.
11:13 masak p: my regex t { \s+ <(foo|bar)> }; say "    bar" ~~ / <t> /
11:13 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc: OUTPUT«「bar」␤ t => 「bar」␤␤»
11:14 masak p: my regex t { \s+ <(foo|bar)> }; say "    bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:14 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc: OUTPUT«「」␤␤»
11:14 masak I'm... wondering if the that second one is correct?
11:15 FROGGS does not feel right
11:15 FROGGS n: my regex t { \s+ <(foo|bar)> }; say "    bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:15 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「」␤␤»
11:15 FROGGS n: my regex t { \s+ <(foo|bar)> }; say "    bar" ~~ / <t> /
11:15 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「bar」␤ t => 「bar」␤␤»
11:15 FROGGS hmmmm
11:15 FROGGS rn: my regex t { \s+ <(foo|bar)> }; say "    bar" ~~ / <t>* /
11:15 masak consistent across implementations.
11:15 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「」␤␤»
11:15 FROGGS rn: my regex t { \s+ <(foo|bar)> }; say "    bar" ~~ / <t>+ /
11:15 masak I'm feeling we're missing something.
11:15 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「bar」␤ t => 「bar」␤␤»
11:16 FROGGS rn: my regex t { <(foo|bar)> }; say "bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:16 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「bar」␤ t => 「bar」␤␤»
11:16 FROGGS rn: my token t { \s+ <(foo|bar)> }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:16 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「」␤␤»
11:17 FROGGS I dunno
11:17 FROGGS rn: my token t { \s+ }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:17 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「        」␤ t => 「        」␤␤»
11:17 FROGGS at least that makes sense to me :o)
11:18 masak then please explain it to me :)
11:18 masak rn: my token t { \s+ <(foo|bar)> }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:18 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「」␤␤»
11:18 masak in the above, why isn't 'bar' captured?
11:19 FROGGS rn: my token t { \s+ (foo|bar) }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:19 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「        bar」␤ t => 「        bar」␤  0 => 「bar」␤␤»
11:19 * masak is thinking how this relates to https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/4128913f2b0c02386066a591ffbb933fb4260f43
11:21 FROGGS rn: my token t { \s+ <(foo|bar) }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:21 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Malformed regexâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32mmy token t { \s+ <(foo|bar[33mâ��[31m) }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /[0mâ�¤    expecting an…»
11:21 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find right brace at /tmp/tmpfile line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy token t { \s+ <(foo|bar[33mâ��[31m) }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /[0mâ�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
11:21 FROGGS rn: my token t { \s+ <((foo|bar) }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:21 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「        bar」␤ t => 「bar」␤  0 => 「bar」␤␤»
11:22 FROGGS rn: my token t { \s+ <((foo|bar))> }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /
11:22 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「        bar」␤ t => 「bar」␤  0 => 「bar」␤␤»
11:22 FROGGS interesting
11:23 FROGGS rn: my token t { \s+ <(foo|bar)> }; say "        bar" ~~ / <t>? /; say $/.perl
11:23 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc: OUTPUT«「」␤␤Match.new(orig => "        bar", from => 0, to => 0, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new())␤»
11:23 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«「」␤␤#<match from(0) to(0) text() pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
11:23 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 1d6acc: OUTPUT«「」␤␤Match.new(to => 0, hash => EnumMap.new(), ast => Any, list => ().list, orig => "        bar", from => 0)␤»
11:23 masak niecza is wrong there. <( and )> are supposed to be independent.
11:24 FROGGS but <( is a thing on its own
11:24 FROGGS so <(foo) is invalid
11:24 masak ah, troo.
11:25 masak anyway, I think there was a bug in there, but I'm too fuzzy-headed to analyze it.
11:25 FROGGS yeah, me too
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11:30 daniel-s_ perl6: say 'hi'
11:30 camelia rakudo-parrot 1d6acc, rakudo-jvm 1d6acc, rakudo-moar 1d6acc, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«hi␤»
11:31 daniel-s_ :-)
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11:32 FROGGS hi daniel-s_
11:32 daniel-s_ Hey
11:33 daniel-s_ I figure, camelia is always reliable about saying hi... even if it's only because she's running the code that tells her to do it.
11:36 masak oh hai daniel-s_
11:37 masak some of us humans are fairly reliable too ;)
11:37 masak albeit admittedly less so
11:37 smash TimToady: huh?! ah, that wasn't for me, roger
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11:43 Ulti [Coke] what did you get up to re. bioperl people?
11:44 Ulti last time I spoke to them they said they weren't going to push for bioperl6 yet but would get back to me
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12:27 * masak , for perhaps the first time ever, uses TDD purely to map out a domain
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12:38 timotimo hm, it would appear that's one of its strengths, no?
12:38 masak yes, it is.
12:38 masak but I usually do it mainly to implement something.
12:38 masak here I do it simply to *understand* what the domain *is*.
12:38 masak as in, I primarily expect the TDD process to *tell* me things.
12:38 masak (and it does)
12:38 timotimo as in "what is the exact size and shape of the domain"?
12:39 masak more like "how the heck does the domain work"
12:39 masak note, "domain" as in "problem domain", not as in "domain of a function".
12:39 timotimo that's what i thought, too
12:47 * lizmat is off to FOSDEM
12:47 lizmat see you there or be square  :-)
12:48 * masak .oO( □ )
12:48 moritz .oO( is that square fair? )
12:48 * FROGGS is now known as froggsbob nottherepants
13:03 * colomon is a well-known square
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13:42 Ven Hi ! I wanted to know if there was a "special variable" that contains the (lexically scoped) current loop iteration (like in awk)
13:44 masak Ven: no, we usually do @array.kv for that
13:45 masak p: my @array = <A B C D>; for @array.kv -> $i, $val { say "On index $i we have $val" }
13:45 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca: OUTPUT«On index 0 we have A␤On index 1 we have B␤On index 2 we have C␤On index 3 we have D␤»
13:46 masak the "key" in an array is simply the index, as if it were a (non-sparse) Int-keyed hash.
13:48 masak it's a nicer solution, in my opinion. a hidden special variable would affect everyone's performance, not just those who used the feature.
13:49 woolfy1 left #perl6
13:50 * moritz brings up the sufficiently smart compiler straw-man
13:51 Ven "a SSC would statically determine that the variable isn't used and not generate it" ?
13:51 moritz yes
13:52 masak yes, sure.
13:52 masak but even considering that, there's something to be said for being explicit.
13:52 moritz but we still hate special variables enough to reduce their number, not increase it
13:52 moritz it's down to 4
13:52 masak if someone really liked the idea of a special variable, they could module it.
13:52 moritz ... with a macro
13:52 * moritz ducks
13:52 masak ooh, that's a nice example.
13:53 masak yes, because they'd essentially be creating their own for loop, so it's legit.
13:53 masak moritz++
13:56 moritz "rebaes linearizes history" # 3 words
13:56 moritz one of them missspelled
13:58 masak ww?
13:59 moritz yes
14:01 [Coke] Ulti: nothing happened, I am just in that channel. no substantial discussion.
14:02 telex joined #perl6
14:09 [Coke] I did hear that a lot of people doing bio in perl5 are rolling their own instead of using BioPerl.
14:09 [Coke] (because NIH, not for good reasons)
14:09 moritz because perl is so expressive, that in the beginning it's less of a hurdle to roll something on your own
14:10 moritz instead of reading docs, and finding the stuff in the first place
14:10 moritz and getting acquainted with the module author's terminology
14:12 masak indeed.
14:12 masak just because there's a module out there doesn't mean it's the right fit for everyone.
14:13 faceblaster joined #perl6
14:14 tgt joined #perl6
14:17 ajr_ In a field close the experimental edge, the terminology might not have settled down to the point that people discussing the same subject would recognise the fact.
14:17 moritz most bioperl tasks don't seem to apply to that
14:17 ajr_ (Not to mention professional competition generating a struggle over definitions.
14:24 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
14:25 bjz joined #perl6
14:29 Ven mmh, `class` syntax is a new perl6-feature, right ? It's kinda hard to google things sometimes haha, I got onto Moo's page
14:30 [Coke] if you're looking for perl6 docs, the advent calendar, doc.perl6.org and perlcabal.org/syn are good places to poke about.
14:30 [Coke] (plus also the roast test suite)
14:30 [Coke] (but to navigate that, you need the ../syn)
14:31 * [Coke] hasn't done moo programming in a loooong time.
14:31 Ven [Coke]: yeah, that's there I navigate, roast test suite + github finder usually brings good result. I have doc.perl6 and perlcabal open and I get often on the advent calendar. (is it up-to-date with new standarts etc?)
14:32 moritz yes, 'class' syntax is a new feature in Perl 6
14:33 * geekosaur is somewhat amused, considering that if you follow Moo backwards you end up back here
14:34 jnap joined #perl6
14:37 masak geekosaur: I'm so old on this channel, I remember when stevan_++ was active around here, cooking up Moose. :)
14:37 geekosaur yep :)
14:37 masak Ven: the advent calendar is up-to-date, except in very rare cases.
14:37 masak Ven: if you think you've found such a case, we're interested to hear about it.
14:38 * [Coke] is reminded that we have some roast tests for older advents, butnot newere.
14:38 [Coke] *but not newer
14:47 Ven moritz: what are the "4 special variables" still left ? Do you still count $^ variables ? $\d, $`, $' etc ?
14:47 moritz Ven: there are $`, $' etc. variables in Perl 6
14:47 moritz Ven: $!, $_, $/ and $¢
14:47 moritz the latter one is usually only used inside the regex engine
14:49 Ven uuh. :D
14:49 moritz sorry
14:50 moritz there are *no* $`, $' etc. variables in Perl 6
14:50 moritz missed that one, unimportant word
14:50 masak those two are simply attributes on $/ these days.
14:50 masak forgotten what exactly...
14:51 masak I just remember there was quite some discussion over the names :)
14:51 FROGGS $¢ might be $/.CURSOR
14:51 moritz $/.prematch and $/.postmatch iirc
14:52 FROGGS ahh, these
14:52 moritz m: 'abcdef' ~~ /c/; say $/.prematch
14:52 camelia rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«ab␤»
14:52 Ven very interesting :)
14:52 FROGGS p: 'abcdef' ~~ /c/; say $`
14:52 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/i5f432KmM2â�¤Unsupported use of $` variable; in Perl 6 please use explicit pattern before <(â�¤at /tmp/i5f432KmM2:1â�¤------> [32m'abcdef' ~~ /c/; say [33mâ��[31m$`[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:…»
14:52 masak right .prematch and .postmatch -- moritz++
14:52 FROGGS std: $'
14:52 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of $'variable; in Perl 6 please use explicit pattern after )> at /tmp/W9f_2P1c5X line 1:�------> [32m$'[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 121m�»
14:53 masak Ven: Perl 6 is very thought-through. it is extremely earnest in trying to improve on and fix Perl 5.
14:55 FROGGS and I try to get all the nice P5 things back :o)
14:55 Ven masak: I'm afraid the only knowledge of perl is a IRC bot I did when I was 12 ;). Coming to perl 6 directly without experience from perl 5 (except some snippets I've read here and there)
14:55 tadzik ok, time for Star release :)
14:55 Ven But sometimes I think it's a hard and steep choice to do (like python did)
14:56 masak Ven: you are right.
14:56 masak Ven: and there's a long way for Perl 6 to go still.
14:56 masak Ven: what you see here is a group of enthusiasts who really believe in the idea, and carry it forward day by day.
14:56 moritz and the python step from 2 to 3 isn't nearly as steep as p5 to p6
14:57 masak and yet people seem embittered and disappointed even by Python's small step.
14:59 dalek star: 9ed36f1 | tadzik++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
14:59 dalek star: Fix release guide
14:59 dalek star:
14:59 dalek star: git submodule sync doesn't have a --force option
14:59 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/9ed36f160d
14:59 masak Ven: I think the best way to approach Perl 6 is with a curiosity of what's possible. Perl 5 is awesome, but it has some known limitations. Perl 6 is all about thinking bigger and further than that, and to create a language which transcends Perl 5 while still remaining Perl.
15:00 moritz tadzik: oh, 'git submodule update' has the --force option
15:00 masak Ven: if that ends up sounding interesting, feel free to use Perl 6. if it sounds *very* interesting, feel free to get involved. :>
15:00 tadzik moritz: not here
15:00 moritz git 1.7.9.5
15:00 tadzik oh, update
15:00 Ven masak: definitely why I approached it
15:00 tadzik should it be 'update --force' then?
15:01 masak Ven: \o/
15:01 masak Ven: let me know if I can be of some assistance. I was once where you are right now.
15:02 masak Ven: experience tells is that newcomers/volunteers have the best change of being helpful/useful by (a) doing what they like and (b) asking questions freely.
15:03 Ven masak: seems like a lot of fun. also used an altJS with a perl-like syntax, so several things feel home. I'm also interested in a lot of programming languages (generally), so generally I just think "oh that's like X in language Y", which helps a lot. But there are a *lot* of features. Read 4 synapses yet, I'll get some as PDFs.
15:04 FROGGS Ven: it feels like as if you belong to us :o)
15:04 btyler joined #perl6
15:05 moritz you have been 6ieted. Resistance is normal.
15:06 treehug88 joined #perl6
15:07 TimToady r: my regex foo { \w+ }; say "ohh?" ~~ / <foo> /
15:07 tgt joined #perl6
15:07 Ven One thing for sure, this community's reputation isnt stolen
15:07 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca, rakudo-jvm 1a44ca, rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«「ohh」␤ foo => 「ohh」␤␤»
15:07 TimToady masak: don't need the & either
15:07 TimToady unless you want to force it to not mean a grammar rule, but here it's not ambiguous in any case
15:08 jnap joined #perl6
15:08 FROGGS just ooc, are dynamic subs specced? like &*foo?
15:08 dalek star: 35aca2d | tadzik++ | tools/star/Makefile:
15:08 dalek star: Update Makefile for 2014.01
15:08 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/35aca2dd19
15:08 dalek star: ebaa7e5 | tadzik++ | docs/announce/2014.01.md:
15:08 dalek star: Add the new release announcement
15:08 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/ebaa7e541b
15:08 tadzik proofreading will be welcome
15:08 FROGGS not that I'd need it, just wanted to know
15:08 thou joined #perl6
15:09 TimToady well, you have to call it using &*foo()
15:09 FROGGS yes yes
15:09 FROGGS I am aware of that
15:09 TimToady to me it just falls out of everything else; dunno if it's specced
15:09 FROGGS p: my &*foo = sub { 42 }; &*foo()
15:09 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca: ( no output )
15:09 FROGGS p: my &*foo = sub { 42 }; say &*foo()
15:09 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca: OUTPUT«42␤»
15:10 FROGGS mkay
15:10 FROGGS (fall out)++
15:10 moritz tadzik: I've skimmed it, looks good
15:10 tadzik moritz: thank you
15:10 TimToady in S06 it has things like &*saith($next_id);   # print the lexical $next_id;
15:10 dalek star: 9f13743 | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
15:10 dalek star: Update version numbers
15:10 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/9f137438b1
15:11 raiph joined #perl6
15:12 TimToady oh, I see you discovered the lack of need for &, nevermind :)
15:12 * TimToady never knows whether to respond to the backlog now, or later after he's forgotten to...
15:12 FROGGS hehe
15:12 FROGGS better now than never
15:12 moritz redundant replies don't hurt.
15:12 FROGGS except when they do
15:13 * FROGGS .oO( just wanted to say a Toadism )
15:13 timotimo hi Ven
15:13 timotimo what does "this community's reputation isn't stolen" mean?
15:13 TimToady the problem is, if your pride takes a hit point, and it was already negative, you start taking the absolute value as a source of pride
15:14 TimToady (re redundant replies)
15:14 tadzik urgh, my star doesn't like my ICU, it seems
15:15 tadzik auto::icu -           Is ICU installed...error: icushared not defined
15:15 tadzik does that ring a bell?
15:15 tadzik I also had to give it --icuheaders so it'd find them
15:15 FROGGS tadzik: you've got the /usr/include/unicode symlink?
15:15 FROGGS ahh, hmmm
15:15 tadzik FROGGS: I don't think so
15:15 timotimo tadzik++ # star release 2014.01
15:16 tadzik FROGGS: but adding it helpde
15:16 tadzik might be worth telling people that
15:16 tadzik I'll check if it's in the readme
15:17 tgt joined #perl6
15:17 TimToady I do think a lot of our community's reputation was stolen at the beginning, but all new communities do that...
15:17 timotimo i don't know what "stolen" means in this context
15:17 TimToady not earned, I suspect
15:17 timotimo oh, of course
15:17 kaleem joined #perl6
15:18 TimToady at the start, Perl 6 was riding on the Perl 5 community's reputation, for instance
15:18 timotimo geekosaur is somewhat amused, considering that if you follow Moo backwards you end up back here  --  is that because Moo backwards reads OOM and that's what perl6 tends to do for bigger programs? :P
15:18 moritz :-)
15:18 timotimo Ven: btw, i've come from python directly to perl6 and i'm quite happy here
15:18 TimToady and Perl 1 was riding on a whole heap of borrowed Unix memes
15:18 moritz timotimo++
15:18 TimToady not to mention Henry Spencer's regex engine :)
15:19 dalek star: c2982ee | tadzik++ | README:
15:19 dalek star: Note potential Parrot ICU problems in the README
15:19 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/c2982ee34a
15:19 timotimo next month's rakudo star may be the first rakudo jvm star and i'm very excited about that possibility
15:20 masak TimToady: re "stolen at the beginning" -- I disagree, to the extent that au++ single-handedly bootstrapped a community around Pugs.
15:20 tadzik in the long run it would be nice to have fixed on Parrot side
15:20 moritz masak: afiact Perl 6 started way before au++ was involved
15:21 masak oh, of course.
15:21 moritz sadly I wasn't there
15:21 masak me neither.
15:21 masak but up until Pugs, it was basically the Perl 5 and/or Parrot community building Perl 6.
15:21 moritz masak: when did you join, roughly?
15:21 raiph re perl6 advent bitrot: http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=1067940
15:21 TimToady well, au borrowed heavily from Haskell culture at that point too :)
15:21 moritz for me it must have been in 2006 or 2007
15:22 masak moritz: I was aware of Perl 6 already sometime around 2003-2004. I was reading apocalypses in 2004. I joined the #perl6 channel in 2005.
15:22 TimToady and certainly we've been avoiding success at all costs since then :)
15:22 moritz the first rakudo commit mentioning me is from 2008
15:22 masak TimToady: was gonna say. people self-identified as "lambdacamels"; half Perlers, half Haskellers.
15:23 moritz first mu patch mentioned me in 207-02
15:23 TimToady wow, that was a long time ago :P
15:23 moritz erm
15:23 moritz 2007-02 :-)
15:23 tadzik :D
15:23 moritz and first roast patches in 2008-01
15:25 FROGGS I started recognizing Perl 6 at the YAPC in frankfurt 2012 :o)
15:25 FROGGS (and fell in love)
15:26 TimToady you probably had heatstroke
15:26 atroxaper joined #perl6
15:27 aindilis joined #perl6
15:28 masak that would explain the warm feelings
15:28 PerlJam http://blogs.perl.org/users/damian_conway/2014/01/back-to-zurich.html
15:28 PerlJam I see Damian will be giving an intro to perl6 course.
15:29 PerlJam Maybe that will garner some new contributors :)
15:31 FROGGS well, my projects before involved hacking threaded stuff in xs (SDL game library), and so the talk about parrot's threads by seven++ where kinde sweet :o)
15:32 FROGGS I either had ignored Perl 6 before or I have missed its existence for other reasons
15:35 denis_boyun joined #perl6
15:43 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 064a2c7 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
15:43 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
15:43 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/064a2c78a4
15:44 [Coke] lots of failures. :(
15:45 moritz :(
15:46 [Coke] panda, lwp-simple, dbiish... json?
15:47 census joined #perl6
15:47 timotimo how did that happen?
15:47 [Coke] I just report 'em.
15:48 timotimo ah
15:48 timotimo yeah, we changed make
15:48 timotimo to not automatically itemize any more
15:48 moritz oh dammit
15:48 moritz that'll break json
15:49 [Coke] note: i'm testing with the latest rakudo, not the last rakudo-compiler tag.
15:49 timotimo http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-01-31#i_8202738
15:50 [Coke] so perhaps this doesn't matter for the star release.
15:50 moritz likely not
15:50 timotimo it doesn't, luckily
15:50 * moritz builds a parrot again
15:51 Ven timotimo: Sorry, just got back. That's a french phrase I tried to translate, what I meant is that you didn't usurp your reputation, if that makes more sense. ya'all are nice and fun folks
15:51 Ven (also hi and thanks for the help yesterday :P)
15:51 timotimo that's a part of what kept me here :P
15:51 PerlJam Ven: #perl6 was founded on fun :)
15:52 tadzik uhh, it doesn't seem like modules got updated in the star release I prepared
15:52 tadzik json, Bailador and others still warn about EVAL
15:52 timotimo ah, you were vendethiel yesterday?
15:52 tadzik while it was clearly fixed recently
15:52 timotimo tadzik: i personally recommend "git submodule foreach gitk --all"
15:52 timotimo er, actually
15:53 timotimo "git submodule foreach git fetch\; gitk --all"
15:53 timotimo or ... some kind of quoting or something?
15:53 timotimo that'll give you a gui that shows where the checkout is, what's available, and you can right-click on any of the commits and select "check out this commit"
15:53 tadzik but well, at least the old ones all work :)
15:54 FROGGS hoelzro: ping
15:54 FROGGS hoelzro: I palyed around with your openpipe... and I was wondering if using the macros from procops.c would help
15:54 FROGGS hoelzro: so the result is this, which even seems to work: https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/998bacca7b3d3abab644
15:54 FROGGS palyed*
15:54 FROGGS played*
15:54 FROGGS -.-
15:56 tadzik ah, the instructions are RONG agian
15:56 FROGGS aww, not agian
15:56 timotimo toldya its tyop day!
15:56 FROGGS \o{
15:58 dalek star: f269c3f | tadzik++ | modules/ (11 files):
15:58 dalek star: Update modules, all but MIME::Base64
15:58 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/f269c3f473
15:58 dalek star: 89ae451 | tadzik++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
15:58 dalek star: Fix release guide to not tell releaser to rollback module updates
15:58 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/89ae4517f8
15:58 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:01 tadzik I think I need to take a break and go buy some foods :o
16:13 panchiniak joined #perl6
16:13 kbaker joined #perl6
16:16 dalek specs: fcaf02c | larry++ | S05-regex.pod:
16:16 dalek specs: make uses parcel semantics
16:16 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/fcaf02c2cf
16:17 tadzik http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2014.01.tar.gz is out!
16:17 moritz tadzik++
16:17 TimToady \o/
16:17 moritz it has escaped!
16:17 tadzik I'll quickly go and grab something to eat; I'll post all the announcements after the shoptrip :)
16:18 tadzik so there's still time to find a critical bug that'll make me crazy :P
16:18 tadzik shop &
16:23 TimToady testing
16:23 TimToady (on Linux Mint)
16:28 moritz I have pushed a json fix; it should not even break on old rakudo
16:29 jeffreykegler joined #perl6
16:29 timotimo i expected as much
16:30 timotimo but i also expect some more breakage to show up in the smoker
16:36 [Coke] moritz++ tadzik++ TimToady++
16:40 TimToady I am very glad we found this one before 6.0.0 :)
16:40 [Coke] is there a test?
16:40 TimToady not yet
16:40 TimToady but it's specced now :)
16:41 [Coke] not without a test it's not. :P
16:41 * TimToady hopes at some point some minions will go through the specs and figure out what doesn't have a test yet :P
16:41 [Coke] you've only synned. :)
16:42 tadzik . o O ( without a test it's snot )
16:42 timotimo got some good noms, tadzik? :)
16:42 tadzik TimToady: does it seem to work well?
16:42 tadzik timotimo: yeah :)
16:42 timotimo yay
16:42 tadzik timotimo: also, it's so freezing that I think I'll design a plan to always have a 2-weeks-worth of food at home
16:42 tadzik canned or whatever
16:43 TimToady tadzik: you mean the 'make' parcel patch?
16:43 tadzik TimToady: um, I mean the new star :)
16:43 TimToady it spectested before I pushed it
16:44 timotimo hah
16:44 timotimo i hope the weather will nicen up soon :)
16:44 TimToady it seems to have finished 'make install' successfully
16:45 tadzik okay
16:45 tadzik I'll send out the good enws
16:46 tadzik not sure if I have wordpress' http://rakudo.org/ account tho
16:46 TimToady trying a make modules-test
16:48 kaleem joined #perl6
16:49 tadzik moritz: do you have a writeaccess to rakudo.org?
16:50 TimToady passes modules-test
16:51 PerlJam tadzik: do you need an invite?
16:52 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
16:52 stevan_ masak: I am so old in this channel I remember when masak++ first arrived ;)
16:53 tadzik PerlJam: I think so
16:55 vendethiel timotimo: yes, that's me :P
16:56 dalek star: a48e619 | tadzik++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
16:56 dalek star: Update release guide
16:56 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/a48e619755
16:56 FROGGS[mobile]2 joined #perl6
16:58 tadzik ok, now http://rakudo.org/2014/01/31/rakudo-star-2014-01-released/ is out too :)
17:00 [Coke] Much of synopsis 9/11
17:00 timotimo =o
17:02 * masak .oO( never forget )
17:02 [Coke] m: say 9/11
17:02 camelia rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«0.818182␤»
17:03 rindolf joined #perl6
17:03 tadzik .oO( miecza )
17:04 diakopter m: say e - 2
17:04 camelia rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«0.718281828459046␤»
17:04 diakopter m: say e - 1.9
17:04 camelia rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«0.818281828459046␤»
17:06 tadzik m: say e - (9/11 + 1)
17:06 camelia rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«0.900100010277227␤»
17:06 tadzik m: say e - (9/11 + 1.9)
17:06 camelia rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«0.00010001027722728␤»
17:07 panchiniak joined #perl6
17:07 timotimo m: say chr(0b0_000100010)
17:07 camelia rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«"␤»
17:07 PerlJam Who does the R* MSIs typically?
17:08 FROGGS[mobile]2 I am able to
17:08 rindolf joined #perl6
17:09 PerlJam The last one appears to be from September 2013.  It would be nice to have one for the first R* of the new year.
17:10 tadzik any volunteers for Star 2014.02, or should I pick one? :>
17:10 FROGGS[mobile]2 I think I can do that this weekend
17:10 tadzik thanks FROGGS[mobile]2!
17:10 tadzik :P
17:10 FROGGS[mobile]2 nooooo!!!!
17:10 FROGGS[mobile]2 >.<
17:11 tadzik that'd be a daily R* release
17:12 timotimo :D
17:16 skids joined #perl6
17:18 denisboyun joined #perl6
17:45 TimToady the current http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Brace_expansion#Perl_6 solution makes the Haskell solution look rather cluttered :)
17:45 denisboyun joined #perl6
17:49 Vlavv_ joined #perl6
17:49 moritz TimToady++
17:50 moritz though the use of try is a bit hacky :-)
17:50 diakopter rosettacode-driven idiom/language design
17:50 grondilu joined #perl6
17:51 grondilu perl6: say ++(my$ ) Ror 2
17:51 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤This macro cannot be used as a function at /tmp/tmpfile line 1:â�¤------> [32msay ++(my$ ) Ror[33mâ��[31m 2[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1502…»
17:51 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1a44ca, rakudo-jvm 1a44ca, rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:51 TimToady well, hey, Haskell uses try :)
17:52 * grondilu was expecting 2
17:52 TimToady besides, the whole brace substitution meme is hacky in the first place :)
17:54 TimToady in this case, the try saves the redundancy of evaluating $<meta><alts> twice, and makes it read better, so I judged it to be worth it
17:54 timotimo TimToady: what's the try needed for, ooc?
17:55 TimToady was just noticing that it works without the try too :)
17:55 moritz \o/
17:55 timotimo ah, ok
17:55 TimToady since it cascades Nil, I presume, even through the »
17:55 TimToady anyway, seems to work
17:56 timotimo i wonder, can we ».?&crosswalk
17:57 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
17:57 TimToady what, you think crosswalk might not be defined?  :P
17:57 timotimo er ... hah
17:57 TimToady I can see some use for ».?&*dynasub
17:58 timotimo :D
17:58 TimToady but I'll be surprised if that parses currently
17:58 TimToady maybe it will
17:58 timotimo here we go again with the line noise :)
17:58 FROGGS[mobile]2 *g*
17:58 FROGGS[mobile]2 feels home
18:00 TimToady okay, try removed, and now it really is quite pretty
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18:11 PerlJam reading the description for brace expansion ... "$<meta> is likewise short for $/<meta>" while entirely true, saying it's "short for" when it's only one character seems weird.  :)
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18:17 grondilu TimToady: have you tried using || instead of | in the grammar in order enforce resolution order?
18:18 TimToady I decided I don't care if it does LTM instead in this case
18:18 TimToady in fact, probably does the 2nd bracket matcher first
18:19 TimToady but it gets a pretty quick reject if there's something in the middle
18:20 TimToady also, need to propagate the LTMs to the other rules so | works right there; if I put || into meta, I'd have to put || everywhere
18:21 TimToady with LTM I don't actualy have to try meta if the dfa won't match, it goes straight to the . (in TOP)
18:22 TimToady well, nfa, but yeah
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18:23 lue TimToady: I'm going to hazard a guess and say that code I plan on putting on RC probably shouldn't bother using ANSI colors to make things prettier :)
18:24 TimToady .oO(A character here, a character there, pretty soon you're talking real bloat.)
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18:29 TimToady I wanna test the Haskell version, but I've forgotten how to download Text.Parsec (have ghc)
18:29 TimToady oh wait, aptitude found it
18:30 geekosaur normally you'd want to install haskell-platform but ubuntu broke it
18:30 diakopter it's a conspiracy.
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19:51 raiph 10 python idioms: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7151433
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19:53 PerlJam raiph: btw, thanks for fighting the good fight on perlmonks
19:55 timotimo PerlJam, raiph, was that about the post on the advent calendar uptodateness?
19:57 PerlJam timotimo: well, the original was about "Perl 7", but yeah.
19:58 timotimo i remember seeing that
19:58 timotimo that was pretty good, indeed
19:58 timotimo i kind of thought the reply by the anonymous monk was kind of lackluster
19:58 timotimo but oh well.
19:59 arnsholt joined #perl6
19:59 PerlJam Sometimes I think "Just ignore the anonymonk"  but then I think "It's good that the anonymonk wasn't ignored because others might think his word true"
19:59 PerlJam (but I tend to ignore anonymonks anyway because I don't frequent perlmonks much these days :)
20:00 * lue has never really been to perlmonks, barring the occasional passing-by.
20:00 timotimo i was refering to the anomonk that answered raiphs stuff
20:01 timotimo i don't think that person understood the concept of the advent calendar; although it would probably be a good idea to put a short snippet of text in a colored box on top of every advent calendar post if there's something outdated in it and explain (as exactly as seems prudent) what's the new status
20:03 PerlJam aye.
20:04 lue timotimo: and/or a general site-wide disclaimer at the top of each page saying "Posts are contemporaneous, not current." :)
20:04 timotimo right.
20:05 timotimo but that does seem like an LTA to me
20:05 lue timotimo: it's one of those "It should be obvious" things
20:05 * lue likes how  make -j3  in the nqp repo builds all three nqps at once :D
20:05 timotimo that's very enjoyable, indeed
20:05 PerlJam I think the anonymonk's point was that "Perl 6 isn't usable because the language isn't stable (enough)" or something.
20:06 * timotimo re-reads
20:06 lue Could I have a link to this thing we're discussing? :)
20:06 timotimo http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=1067940
20:06 lue danke
20:06 timotimo okay, i don't think i actually know what that anonymonk referred to with "a significant portion of the important documentation you keep claiming that people will be working on in 2013"
20:09 PerlJam I think that was a mistake.  The anonymonk conflated the Synopses with the Advent articles.  (that's just my guess anyway)
20:09 timotimo wow, that'd cause a pretty grave misunderstanding
20:09 [Coke] no change in rakudo/moar log files on daily roast.
20:09 timotimo "these crazy fools are only working on the specification on 24 days in the whole year!"
20:10 lue timotimo: that "sig portion of imp. doc" thing is likely in response to "I'm not currently willing to go thru all 100+ articles."
20:11 tgt joined #perl6
20:11 * [Coke] points at https://github.com/perl6/roast/tree/master/integration //advent*
20:12 [Coke] we have at least partial coverage in the test suite for 2009&2010
20:12 lue As far as I can tell, Perl 7 is an idea by people who want a shiny new major version on their favorite language, but are peeved that the next major version of a language is taking so long :)
20:12 [Coke] LHF to add the rest (and we probably should)
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20:13 PerlJam [Coke]++
20:13 [Coke] but: If I go ahead and do that (which needs doing) that will not satsify anonymonk.
20:13 [Coke] so anyone who does it, do it because it's right, not because he's wrong.
20:13 * PerlJam cares not for anonymonk's desires
20:13 lue [Coke]: my senses tell me anonymonk does not want to be satisfied.
20:13 FROGGS [Coke]: pretty much nothing satisfies haters
20:14 FROGGS just go on and deliver an awesome product
20:14 [Coke] FROGGS: exactly.
20:14 * [Coke] sets up some quests for the various advent stuff.
20:16 timotimo lue: Anonymonk is probably in THERE IS SOMEONE WRONG ON THE INTERNET mode
20:16 * [Coke] hurls http://questhub.io/player/coke
20:16 lue timotimo: agreed
20:16 [Coke] feel free to join in any of those.
20:16 timotimo some stuff to +1 \o/
20:16 masak 'night, #perl6
20:16 [Coke] +1 ALL MY THINGS!
20:17 timotimo FWIW, i looked through a bunch of advent calendar posts for testable code to copypaste and came up with not much
20:17 [Coke] *\[oo]/
20:17 timotimo i'd say whoever goes with that will have to do a more thorough reading and thinking than i did :)
20:17 lue [Coke]: should advent tests be contemporaneous or current? (e.g. leave eval($stuff) or change to EVAL($stuff))
20:17 [Coke] I had a bunch of code in 2013 that's testable.
20:17 [Coke] lue: IMO, the code in the article should be updated to match current code.
20:18 [Coke] that's a lot of work, which is why it isn't done. (ditto RC code)
20:19 [Coke] but we shoudl either update the article in situ, or at least have a box at the top saying something like "This article displays an older style of code. <link to roast tests showing current style>"
20:19 lue [Coke]: by "RC code" you mean "script that downloads all completed tasks from RC one-by-one and tests them", right?
20:20 lue I think updated articles should update code + a box somewhere detailing the changes.
20:20 PerlJam lue: +!
20:20 PerlJam er, +1
20:20 [Coke] lue: something like that. ingy has work in that direction. also see integration/rose* in roast.
20:21 * moritz turns 2013 day 02 into tests
20:21 [Coke] moritz++
20:21 [Coke] sweet, now I get credit for doing less work! ;)
20:21 lue .oO(We clearly need gitblog for our advent posts, so we don't have to NIH changelogs)
20:21 PerlJam day 24 is going to be a little harder to turn into a test :)
20:21 FROGGS is somebody willing to test this? http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.01-RC0.msi
20:21 FROGGS e.g., test panda
20:22 colomon isn't it released already?
20:22 FROGGS colomon: not the msi :o)
20:22 lue colomon: the MSI is specifically released "sometime after the main release"
20:22 FROGGS colomon: it is the compiled version for windows
20:23 [Coke] FROGGS++ trying now.
20:23 FROGGS awesome!
20:23 FROGGS [Coke]: thank you
20:23 [Coke] (don't tell anyone I have a sometimes win box)
20:23 timotimo i'd like to see the test that verifies "Clever dogs can do up to 10 words a minute, with surprisingly few typos." :P
20:23 FROGGS *g*
20:23 [Coke] I'd love for us to get a publisher cert.
20:23 FROGGS yeah
20:23 * colomon is also downloading it
20:23 dalek roast: 1ff6d63 | moritz++ | integration/advent2013-02.t:
20:23 dalek roast: turn advent 2013 day 02 into a test
20:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1ff6d633e5
20:24 lue Rakudo doesn't do the same "all three rakudos at once with -j3" though :(
20:24 moritz lue: it doesn't?
20:24 lue oh, nevermind, I just wasn't patient enough for when it starts :)
20:24 FROGGS lue: my does
20:24 FROGGS hehe
20:24 FROGGS lue: yeah, you have to wait for parrot kicking in :o)
20:25 [Coke] FROGGS: installed it, C:\rakudo\bin\perl6.exe seems to work ok.
20:25 FROGGS cool, I hope the repl and panda is fine... then we can ship it
20:25 lue Well, it wavers between "3 jvm", "all three", and "2 jvm + 1 parrot" for me
20:25 PerlJam Can we fudge tests for just one rakudo implementation?
20:25 FROGGS PerlJam: yes
20:25 moritz yes
20:25 lue PerlJam: rakudo.parrot (etc.)
20:25 moritz #?rakudo.parrot 'OH NOEZ'
20:25 FROGGS #?rakudo.jvm skip
20:25 PerlJam nice.
20:26 FROGGS or todo or emit...
20:26 raiph timotimo: the anonymonk in question is almost certainly educated_{f,p}oo
20:26 [Coke] panda fails here, but EFIREWALL
20:26 FROGGS hmmm
20:26 [Coke] moritz++ is missing a todo or skip there.
20:27 moritz aye
20:27 timotimo raiph: well, if he aint got any other hobbies, let's share a moment of silence for his pitiful existence ...
20:27 raiph timotimo: he's a dedicated and unreasonable P6 troll
20:27 [Coke] FROGGS: but the REPL and the command line seem fine.
20:27 vendethiel joined #perl6
20:27 lue Funny thing, I still don't care about the troll :)
20:27 FROGGS [Coke]++ # thank you very much
20:27 [Coke] r: say [*] 2..1000000
20:28 [Coke] ^^ returns 0 on win7
20:28 FROGGS panda seems to work here
20:28 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca, rakudo-jvm 1a44ca, rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:28 raiph lue: right, I try (and generally succeed I think) in following au++to go with
20:28 * [Coke] wonders if http://questhub.io/realm/perl/quest/511a56703a5ec3060700005f is worth doing these days - is there another smolder-alike that doesn't have the maintenance issues smolder does?
20:29 lue raiph: what does au say on the matter?
20:29 colomon can confirm I get working REPL on * 2014.1 on Windows Vista
20:29 raiph lue: hug trolls: answer the substance, acknowledge any authentic feelings, ignore the rest
20:29 FROGGS colomon++ # thanks for testing
20:30 colomon FROGGS: trying to use it to install ABC module at the moment.
20:31 FROGGS moritz: can you please upload http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.01-RC0.msi with s/-RC0// ?
20:31 FROGGS Please pre-compile C:\rakudo\.work\1391200250_1\lib/ABC/Header.pm
20:31 FROGGS build stage failed for ABC: Failed building lib\ABC\Actions.pm
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20:34 tadzik my dream: when rakudo says "Please pre-compile", it's followed by "because I tried to do it myself and failed"
20:35 FROGGS tadzik: I want to implement proper cache invalidation some day...
20:36 FROGGS tadzik: I've made the msi btw
20:36 tadzik FROGGS: that's awesome :)
20:36 tadzik it's like windows is almost a first-class citizen
20:36 FROGGS *g*
20:38 raiph http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=1072014 # chromatic "secretly" "publicly" aplogogizes to educated_
20:38 PerlJam FROGGS: When you put it on rakudo.org, add a short article that says it's there with a link to it.
20:38 colomon FROGGS: ABC installation via panda failed, I suspect because the perl6 command is not in the path
20:38 colomon is it suppose to be.
20:38 FROGGS PerlJam: I can't upload it, but I can add a link to the post
20:39 FROGGS colomon: it is in my path
20:39 FROGGS panda does not get the deps right for some reason
20:39 colomon give me a moment
20:39 cooper joined #perl6
20:39 tadzik oh!
20:40 dalek roast: 90ed0c3 | moritz++ | integration/advent2013-04.t:
20:40 dalek roast: Add tests for advent 2013 day 04 (incomplete)
20:40 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/90ed0c37e8
20:40 PerlJam FROGGS: let me know the URL of the final MSI and I'll upload it to rakudo.org
20:41 FROGGS PerlJam: that is the final IMO
20:41 FROGGS http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.01-RC0.msi with the -RC0 stripped
20:41 PerlJam okay.
20:42 FROGGS because I can't fix panda and/or ABC in a reasonable timeframe
20:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 8ea845b | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
20:42 dalek rakudo/nom: run new advent tests
20:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8ea845b0ad
20:43 PerlJam FROGGS: uploaded.  See http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/
20:43 FROGGS PerlJam++ # :o)
20:44 psch joined #perl6
20:44 psch hi #perl6
20:44 PerlJam hello psch
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20:46 dalek roast: dacd397 | moritz++ | integration/advent2013-06.t:
20:46 dalek roast: Add test for advent 2013 day 06
20:46 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/dacd397c51
20:47 dalek rakudo/nom: 2f948dd | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
20:47 dalek rakudo/nom: run another advent test
20:47 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2f948dd371
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20:50 dalek roast: a78a516 | (Pepe Schwarz)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
20:50 dalek roast: Added test for RT #98854
20:50 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a78a516609
20:50 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=98854
20:52 colomon FROGGS: I don't see any sign that c:\rakudo\bin has been added to my oath
20:52 colomon path
20:53 colomon (obviously I can do it manually….)
20:53 FROGGS ohh, I might have done that in the past
20:57 hoelzro FROGGS: nice, I like it!
20:57 hoelzro I had just started to look at procops =/
20:57 hoelzro tadzik++ # release
20:57 FROGGS hoelzro: cool!
20:57 colomon tadzik++
20:57 colomon # indeed
20:58 FROGGS hoelzro: though the output of "perl6-p -e 'use v5; say `ls`'" and "perl6-m -e 'use v5; say `ls`'" looks a bit different
20:58 FROGGS maybe perl6-p's openpipe does not spawn a shell?
20:58 hoelzro try echo $$
20:59 FROGGS an btw, I did no test except v5 stuff so far
20:59 hoelzro ok
20:59 psch lines 135ff in S14-roles/parameterized-basic.t look like they kinda-sorta test for RT #84492. can someone explain what's different if there is anything?
20:59 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=84492
20:59 hoelzro I'm hoping to finish it up at FOSDEM
21:00 FROGGS hoelzro: I get the pid on both backends
21:00 FROGGS hmmm, then I dunno why `ls` displays in column on parrot but not on moar
21:01 hoelzro hmm
21:01 hoelzro well
21:01 hoelzro ls will columnize in a tty
21:04 clsn r: my \φ; say "alive"
21:04 camelia rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'ast'␤»
21:04 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1a44ca, rakudo-jvm 1a44ca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No such method 'ast' for invocant of type 'NQPMu'␤»
21:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: 45afbfa | coke++ | / (3 files):
21:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
21:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/45afbfa869
21:04 clsn Hm, when I tried earlier it worked for moar and jvm, but failed for parrot.
21:04 FROGGS clsn: huh
21:05 clsn Maybe I'm wrong; moar just SEGVd when I tried it now.
21:05 [Coke] looks like additionally, moar has a LTA LTA error.
21:05 [Coke] (those 3 errors should be identical)
21:06 lue somehow, the +x on perl6-debug-m wasn't carried over when I did 'make install'
21:07 clsn huh, I thought it worked for me for -j and -m before... Guess not.
21:07 FROGGS $<term_init> in token declarator is null
21:10 havenwood joined #perl6
21:11 * FROGGS tries a fix
21:13 arnsholt joined #perl6
21:13 FROGGS r: my \φ
21:13 camelia rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'ast'␤»
21:13 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1a44ca, rakudo-jvm 1a44ca: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No such method 'ast' for invocant of type 'NQPMu'␤»
21:13 FROGGS r: my \φ = 7
21:13 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca, rakudo-jvm 1a44ca, rakudo-moar 1a44ca: ( no output )
21:13 * FROGGS scratches his head
21:13 clsn Oh right, maybe I was trying it with a value...
21:13 FROGGS std: my \φ
21:13 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Term definition requires an initializer at /tmp/Zn96AjnSG9 line 1 (EOF):�------> [32mmy \φ[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 121m�»
21:15 clsn Yeah, I guess all looks well... I could have sworn I was getting weird errors from parrot...
21:15 FROGGS still weird that it does not complain about the missing initializer
21:16 clsn And I was getting different behavior for my \x vs my \φ, that was the cool thing.... Wonder what I was doing differently.
21:17 lue $ ./bootstrap.pl
21:17 lue ==> Bootstrapping Panda
21:17 lue Cannot call 'postcircumfix:<{ }>'; none of these signatures match:
21:17 lue Anyone else get this?
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: d5f7c71 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: need to panic now!
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: Otherwise it would continue and complain about missing method NQPMu.ast because of lacking $<term_init>.
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d5f7c71dbb
21:19 FROGGS clsn++
21:20 moritz FROGGS++
21:20 clsn moritz++
21:20 * moritz isn't a big fan of continuing to parse after errors
21:21 FROGGS well, it *is* nice to get a list of error, like "unknown sub foo used in line 223, 448 and 976"
21:21 FROGGS because you can fix all in one go
21:21 timotimo agreed. as long as there are no BEGIN blocks in between :P
21:22 moritz FROGGS: aye. But I can also fix them all in one go by using the search function in my editor
21:22 lue I am I the only one getting that random "cannot call postcircumfix" error with panda?
21:23 FROGGS lue: possible, and I don't even use panda O.o
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21:25 lue r: class Foo { }; say Foo ~~ Any
21:25 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca, rakudo-jvm 1a44ca, rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:25 clsn r: my @all=(1...*); my @ones:=(1,@all) Z- @all; say @ones[^10]
21:25 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca, rakudo-jvm 1a44ca, rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1␤»
21:26 clsn r: my @all=(1...*); my @ones=(1,@all) Z- @all; say @ones[^10]
21:26 clsn But it's Bad if you don't use :=.  Which indicates that I don't really understand = vs :=.
21:26 camelia rakudo-parrot 1a44ca, rakudo-jvm 1a44ca, rakudo-moar 1a44ca: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
21:27 timotimo using = with a list on the LHS will eagerly assign
21:28 timotimo := replaces the listy thing with the lazy thing
21:28 clsn Apparently.  And I guess := doesn't project eagerness.
21:28 timotimo rather than asking the lazy thing to fill up the listy thing
21:28 clsn Can only use := in declarations though, right?  as in my @foo :=... not with things already declared.
21:29 timotimo nope. you can do := as often as you want
21:29 timotimo NQP only has :=, no = at all
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: aa72afa | moritz++ | CREDITS:
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: fix typo in credits
21:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aa72afaf36
21:30 clsn I knew that about NQP.  Yes, I just tried out and see what you mean about :=.  Once again, I was misled by REPL weirdness, since I do most of my tinkering in the REPL.  The REPL won't let you use := most places.
21:30 timotimo yeah, the repl is usually trouble :(
21:31 clsn Yeah, I'm starting to understand that.  I really need to test out anything anomalous non-REPLly more carefully.
21:34 timotimo yes :(
21:34 timotimo i've started using a vim buffer and having a :!perl6 % on hand
21:34 PerlJam timotimo: do you map that to one of the function keys or type it out by hand each time?
21:36 timotimo neither
21:36 timotimo i type :!<Up>
21:36 timotimo well, actually i usually type :w<CR>:!<Up>
21:36 timotimo which is pretty bad as far as huffmanization goes :)
21:39 grondilu TimToady: trying to do brace-expansion with a simpler grammar.  Doesn't quite work yet, but works for a few examples at least.   https://gist.github.com/grondilu/8743717
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21:41 PerlJam grondilu: did the "redundancy" in the original grammar inspire you?  :)
21:42 grondilu not sure what you mean
21:42 diakopter repetition of the < >
21:42 diakopter er <[ ]>
21:44 grondilu well, there are definitely a few things I don't like in the current entry.  It's great that we have something that works, but the logic behind it is hard to grasp, imho.
21:44 grondilu I really have the feeling it's possible to write something more elegant.
21:45 grondilu (thus my modest attempt)
21:45 arnsholt joined #perl6
21:45 diakopter grondilu: well, idiomacy trades off with elegance..
21:46 diakopter sometimes.
21:48 timotimo since i can't decide between organisation and organization, i'll write organißation
21:48 clsn TIL: (just now, really)  It's faster to say sub blah($a, $b) { if $a > $b ... else ... } than it is to say multi sub blah($a, $b where $a>b) { ...} and multi sub blah($a, $b) { ... }.
21:48 clsn i.e. it executes faster.
21:48 timotimo get it? because ß is "sz"
21:49 FROGGS Missing test file: t/spec/integration/advent2013-day02.t
21:49 FROGGS Missing test file: t/spec/integration/advent2013-day04.t
21:49 FROGGS Missing test file: t/spec/integration/advent2013-day06.t
21:49 FROGGS the files don't have a "day" in their names
21:49 colomon clsn: yes, definitely
21:49 FROGGS moritz: ^^
21:50 clsn Makes sense.  But it had to be experimented with.
21:50 lue That panda error in more detail ==> https://gist.github.com/lue/1029c4d379bb8143b8f3
21:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 257e61a | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
21:54 dalek rakudo/nom: fix file names, FROGGS++
21:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/257e61a0ef
21:54 moritz I shouldn't hack this late in the week anymore
21:56 timotimo ... but it's friday?
21:56 timotimo friday night isn't in the week :)
21:56 moritz well, that's the problem, aint it? :-)
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22:13 smls moritz: re "continuing to parse after errors", why not do it like Perl: Continue parsing, but stop at the first thing that's not safe after an error.
22:14 smls --> "line 5: Error X; line 17: Error Y; line 33: BEGIN not safe after errors; aborting."
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22:17 vendethiel is this good ?
22:17 vendethiel subset FilledArray of Array where *.elems > 0;
22:19 tadzik why don't you try it out? :)
22:21 [Coke] can we pick a consistant way to name the advent files?
22:21 vendethiel tadzik: yeah that works but I'm looking for a way to convert an Array to FilledArray
22:21 [Coke] (rather than some day, some not?)
22:21 vendethiel I tried .FilledArray, FilledArray([1,2])
22:22 [Coke] if no objections, I'll unify them later this even.
22:23 smls vendethiel: I don't think subsets are types that you can instantiate, but merely meant as restrictions for parameters/attributes
22:23 vendethiel smls: ah, okay :). thanks !
22:23 smls r: subset FilledArray of Array where *.elems > 0; sub foo (FilledArray $x) { say $x }; foo [1, 2]; foo []    # like this
22:24 camelia rakudo-parrot 2f948d, rakudo-jvm 2f948d, rakudo-moar 2f948d: OUTPUT«1 2␤Constraint type check failed for parameter '$x'␤  in sub foo at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
22:24 smls I'm new to Perl 6 as well, though :)
22:25 vendethiel smls: thanks
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