Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-02-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: 926db80 | coke++ | / (3 files):
01:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
01:04 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/926db8043e
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01:11 [Coke] pugs has 4691 failures and could use some love.
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01:48 clsn__ Some odd behavior when doing things I shouldn't be doing...
01:49 clsn__ r: sub prefix:<]> ($x) { "-$x-" }; say "alive";
01:49 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
01:49 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«alive␤»
01:49 clsn__ whoa, that was weird.  Didn't know JVM barfed.  Anyway, that's at least normal (though the sub doesn't work, which is another issue).  But look.
01:50 clsn__ r: sub prefix:<]> ($x)  { ">x<" }; say "alive"  # Note: differs only in contents of *string* in sub.
01:50 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
01:50 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«alive␤»
01:50 clsn__ *blink*.  It broke on my version.
01:51 clsn__ oh, wait,
01:51 clsn__ r: sub prefix:<]> ($x)  { ">$x<" }; say "alive"  # Note: differs only in contents of *string* in sub.
01:51 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Unable to parse quote-words subscript; couldn't find right angle quote�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32mers only in contents of *string* in sub.[33m�[31m<EOL>[…»
01:51 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
01:51 clsn__ Actually at least as puzzling, really; I thought it was the <>s in the string that broke it (and it apparently is), but the $ in $x seems to be necessary too.
01:54 clsn__ r: sub prefix:<]> ($x) { "-$x-" }; say ]"hello";
01:54 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
01:54 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Unexpected closing bracket�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32msub prefix:<]> ($x) { "-$x-" }; say [33m�[31m]"hello";[0m�»
01:55 clsn__ That's probably reasonable, I am being pretty evil here.  ] won't work in prefix or postfix position, nor will ) or ].  Not-already-spoken-for closers like ﴿ or ⦄ work okay.  Similarly, circumfix:<) (> doesn't work.  Again, not really surprising.
01:56 clsn__ Note however:
01:56 clsn__ r: sub prefix:<)> ($x) { "--$x--" }; say \)"hello"
01:56 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
01:56 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«hello␤»
01:57 clsn__ Without the \, fail.  With the \, no error, but doesn't run the sub either.  Curious.
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02:09 clsn__ Duh.  OK, I see the problem with the ">$x<".  The $x< looks like the beginning of "$x<something>".  So nevermind, that error is correct.
02:19 BenGoldberg r: sub prefix:<)> ($x) { "--$x--" }; say [)]"hello"
02:19 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
02:19 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Unable to parse expression in array composer; couldn't find final ']' �at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32msub prefix:<)> ($x) { "--$x--" }; say [[33m�[31m)]"hello…»
02:20 BenGoldberg r: sub prefix:<)> ($x) { "--$x--" }; say [\)]"hello"
02:20 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
02:20 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤You can't backslash thatâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32mub prefix:<)> ($x) { "--$x--" }; say [\)[33mâ��[31m]"hello"[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argume…»
02:20 BenGoldberg "You can't backslash that"?
02:22 clsn__ Yeah, get that error a lot.  Here's another weird one I just found:
02:22 clsn__ r: say\("hi")
02:22 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
02:22 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«␤No such method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' for invocant of type 'Bool'␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1692␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1674␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
02:22 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«␤Cannot find method 'postcircumfix:<( )>'␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
02:22 clsn__ That's probably at least an LTA message.
02:23 clsn__ Spec says that \ should work as unspace even without spaces after it.  It's fine with a space after it.
02:23 clsn__ r: \  say "x"
02:23 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«x␤»
02:23 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
02:24 clsn__ huh, I got You Can't Backslash That I think.  But maybe I was in the REPL.
02:24 BenGoldberg What's wrong the jakudo today?
02:24 clsn__ Dunno.  I should stop using r:
02:26 BenGoldberg p: sub infix:<d> { "[" ~ @_.join(", ") ~ "]" }; say [d] 1..10
02:26 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«[[[[[[[[[1, 2], 3], 4], 5], 6], 7], 8], 9], 10]␤»
02:26 BenGoldberg p: sub infix:<d> { "[" ~ @_.join(", ") ~ "]" }; say [Rd] 1..10
02:26 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«[10, [9, [8, [7, [6, [5, [4, [3, [2, 1]]]]]]]]]␤»
02:27 BenGoldberg If d were list assoc, the R version would problably, fail, but I forget the syntax :(
02:27 BenGoldberg 'is assoc(List)'?
02:29 BenGoldberg p: say [R,] 1..10
02:29 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 10 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16713␤  in sub  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16820␤  in block  at /tmp/CigNEozzxl:1␤␤»
02:31 clsn um.  I just looked it up today.
02:31 * BenGoldberg is looking it up presently.
02:31 clsn p: sub infix:<d> is assoc<list> { "[" ~ @_.join(", ") ~ "]" }; say [d] 1..10
02:31 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]␤»
02:32 clsn p: sub infix:<d> is assoc<list> { "[" ~ @_.join(", ") ~ "]" }; say [Rd] 1..10
02:32 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 10 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16713␤  in sub  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16820␤  in block  at /tmp/UkNVzYdFBh:1␤␤»
02:32 clsn Guess you're right.
02:32 * clsn didn't realize/forgot you got a slurpy *@_ for free if you use it; I've been typing it in the signature always.
02:33 BenGoldberg p: sub infix:<d> is assoc('list') { "[@_]" }; say [Rd] 1..4
02:33 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16713␤  in sub  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16820␤  in block  at /tmp/WN3bXKIRQm:1␤␤»
02:34 BenGoldberg p: sub infix:<d> is assoc('list') { "[@_]" }; say [d] 1..4
02:34 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«[@_]␤»
02:34 BenGoldberg p: sub infix:<d> is assoc('list') { "["~@_.join(", ")~"]" }; say [d] 1..4
02:34 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3, 4]␤»
02:34 BenGoldberg p: sub infix:<d> is assoc('list') { "["~@_.join(", ")~"]" }; say [Rd] 1..4
02:34 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16713␤  in sub  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16820␤  in block  at /tmp/d35JhyyvxK:1␤␤»
02:34 BenGoldberg p: sub infix:<d> is assoc('list') { "["~@_.join(", ")~"]" }; say [Rd] 1..2
02:34 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«[2, 1]␤»
02:35 BenGoldberg n: sub infix:<d> is assoc('list') { "["~@_.join(", ")~"]" }; say [Rd] 1..2
02:35 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[2, 1]␤»
02:35 BenGoldberg n: sub infix:<d> is assoc('list') { "["~@_.join(", ")~"]" }; say [Rd] 1..4
02:35 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to ANON, used 2 of 4 positionals␤  at /tmp/4XCcsaB85y line 0 (ANON @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2767 (reduceop @ 12) ␤  at /tmp/4XCcsaB85y line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/n…»
02:38 BenGoldberg n: srand(42); print 'Ps c,uret neet AJohrkHalr'.comb.pick(*)
02:38 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Just Another Perl Hacker,»
02:38 clsn whoa...
02:39 BenGoldberg magic! :)
02:39 clsn p: sub infix:<m> is assoc<non> { "<@_.join(', ')>" }; say 7 m 8
02:39 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«<7, 8>␤»
02:39 clsn That's fine.
02:39 clsn p: sub infix:<m> is assoc<non> { "<@_.join(', ')>" }; say 7 m 8 m 9
02:39 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/FIIiv9k_aUâ�¤Operators 'm' and 'm' are non-associative and require parenthesisâ�¤at /tmp/FIIiv9k_aU:1â�¤------> [32mc<non> { "<@_.join(', ')>" }; say 7 m 8 [33mâ��[31mm 9[0mâ�¤    expecting an…»
02:39 clsn that's also fine.
02:39 clsn p: sub infix:<m> is assoc<non> { "<@_.join(', ')>" }; say [m] 1..5
02:39 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«<<<<1, 2>, 3>, 4>, 5>␤»
02:39 clsn That's weird.
02:40 clsn If it's non-associative, how can we reduce over it?
02:40 BenGoldberg Bug?
02:40 clsn I'm thinking maybe... I'm just exploring edge cases here.
02:41 BenGoldberg m: srand(42); ('a'..'z').pick(*).print
02:41 BenGoldberg m: srand(42); ('a'..'z').pick(*).print
02:41 camelia rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«wrpmxatygiqsuflonvjedhbzkc»
02:41 camelia rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«wrpmxatygiqsuflonvjedhbzkc»
02:41 BenGoldberg Good
02:41 BenGoldberg p: srand(42); ('a'..'z').pick(*).print
02:41 BenGoldberg p: srand(42); ('a'..'z').pick(*).print
02:41 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«ipbxqyuowgzcfmhlvndatjsekr»
02:41 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«dqhxmjskpytvigawfbczrleuno»
02:41 BenGoldberg Not good.  Still not fixed.
02:41 clsn srand doesn't srand?
02:42 BenGoldberg On parrot, srand only affects rand, not pick
02:44 clsn Ah.
02:44 BenGoldberg If I wanted to, I could make a japh like one I did for niecza, above, but for moar.
02:44 BenGoldberg But until parrot's srand affects pick, I can't do it for parrot.
02:44 clsn Yeah, once you know the sequence you can just work it backwards.
02:44 BenGoldberg Exactly
02:44 BenGoldberg Here's another bug:
02:44 BenGoldberg rn: say (1e-14).fmt('%.18f')
02:44 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«0.000000000000010000␤»
02:44 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
02:44 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0.000000000000009984␤»
02:44 BenGoldberg That's ok
02:44 BenGoldberg rn: say (1e-14).fmt('%.19f')
02:44 BenGoldberg That's not
02:44 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«0.0000000000000100352␤»
02:44 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
02:44 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«0.0000000000000100000␤»
02:44 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0..92233720368548e+19␤»
02:45 BenGoldberg 0.92233 ...
02:45 BenGoldberg Err, 0..92233
02:45 clsn Yeah, but formatting of floats is a catastrophe in rakudo from what I've seen.
02:47 BenGoldberg parrot's output is... well, not perfect, but at least not horribly wrong, considering how many significant bits I'm asking it to output.
02:48 BenGoldberg jvm's, iirc, wasn't horrible either.
02:48 clsn p: say pi.fmt('%.20f')
02:48 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«3.01.4159265358979e+19␤»
02:48 BenGoldberg But that ".." in the formated string, that's just Wrong
02:48 clsn That's slightly horrible.
02:48 clsn m: say pi.fmt('%.20f')
02:48 camelia rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«3.-1.09223372036855e+2␤»
02:48 clsn So is that.
02:49 BenGoldberg Yeah, that does suck
02:49 clsn It's always the same string in moar; 92233720368548
02:49 clsn Looks like List.pick uses nqp::rand_I and not rand, and I guess that doesn't respect srand.
02:50 BenGoldberg You're right, I just noticed that.  Betcha there's an off by one error in moar, and it's reading beyond the end of the number.
02:50 clsn I don't know why nqp::rand_I and not rand; maybe there's a good reason.
02:51 clsn n: say pi.fmt('%.19f')
02:51 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3.1415926535897900000␤»
02:51 japhb__ rand usually has very few actual random bits in many libc's?
02:51 BenGoldberg p6: say pi.Rat
02:51 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
02:51 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3.141593␤»
02:52 BenGoldberg nqp::rand returns a num, nqp::rand_I returns an int
02:53 BenGoldberg Notice how turning a Num into a Rat throws away so many significant digits?  That's pretty suckey ;)
02:53 BenGoldberg p6: say pi.Str.Rat
02:53 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
02:53 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
02:53 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3.141593␤»
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02:53 BenGoldberg Converting to Str first improves the situation on rakudo, but not niecza
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03:07 japhb__ p6: say ~pi.Rat
03:07 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
03:07 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3.141593␤»
03:07 japhb__ p6: say pi.Rat.perl
03:08 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
03:08 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«<355/113>␤»
03:08 japhb__ Well, at least they're consistent
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04:17 cbk What would be the best way to search a line of strings for \#\w+ ( example: #someWord) and put ALL of the matches into an array?
04:18 cbk I have the following but it only works on the first match...
04:18 cbk if $data ~~ m/  (\#\w+) / { @findings.push($/.Str); say "found: $/"; } say @findings;
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04:52 japhb__ p: my $data = "There are some #hashTags in this #string and I #want_them"; $data ~~ m:g/(\#\w+)/; $/.perl.say
04:52 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/58YqdqoenO�Unspace not allowed in regex�at /tmp/58YqdqoenO:1�------> [32mring and I #want_them"; $data ~~ m:g/(\#[33m�[31m\w+)/; $/.perl.say[0m�»
04:52 japhb__ p: my $data = "There are some #hashTags in this #string and I #want_them"; $data ~~ m:g/('#'\w+)/; $/.perl.say
04:52 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«Match.new(orig => "There are some #hashTags in this #string and I #want_them", from => 47, to => 57, ast => Any, list => (Match.new(orig => "There are some #hashTags in this #string and I #want_them", from => 47, to => 57, ast => Any, list => ().list, ha…»
04:53 japhb__ p: my $data = "There are some #hashTags in this #string and I #want_them"; $data ~~ m:g/('#'\w+)/; $/.say
04:53 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«「#want_them」␤ 0 => 「#want_them」␤␤»
04:53 japhb__ p: my $data = "There are some #hashTags in this #string and I #want_them"; .say for $data ~~ m:g/('#'\w+)/;
04:53 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«False␤»
04:57 japhb__ p: my $data = "There are some #hashTags in this #string and I #want_them"; $data ~~ m/[.*? ('#'\w+)]+/; $/.say
04:57 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«「There are some #hashTags in this #string and I #want_them」␤ 0 => 「#hashTags」␤ 0 => 「#string」␤ 0 => 「#want_them」␤␤»
04:58 japhb__ There you go.
04:58 japhb__ cbk: ^^
05:02 cbk japhb_, ok so that IS what I was looking for.  I was looking into writing a grammar for it... making things harder then they needed to be.
05:02 cbk Thank you very much.
05:03 cbk Wish I knew more about perl6 regex and grammars!
05:05 cbk japhb_++
05:05 cbk or is that still a thing? (the ++)
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05:14 cbk japhb_, YES this is working real good: if $data ~~ m/[.*? ('#'\w+)]+/ { @findings.push($0); } say @findings.Str;
05:14 cbk japhb_, Thanks again!
05:27 moritz j: say 42
05:27 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«42␤»
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06:06 lue what does WAT stand for? I can't watch the video S99 links to.
06:11 moritz lue: it's short what WHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
06:11 lue ah, I thought it might be "Why All This?" or something :)
06:18 japhb__ cbk, you're quite welcome.  :-)
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07:31 masak morning, #perl6
07:32 * masak .oO( Why All This Life, Universe, and Everything? )
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07:59 pmichaud morning, masak   /o
07:59 pmichaud er,   o/
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08:02 pmichaud off to bed, here
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08:08 frettled masak morning pmichaud, good.
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08:20 jnthn o/
08:25 jnthn clsn, BenGoldberg: Note that r-m still has failing tests in sprintf.t, which may well relate to the issues you're seeing. Also that it wasn't much more than a month ago when it didn't even run the spectests at all. :)
08:25 FROGGS_ o/
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08:39 timotimo o/
08:40 jnthn commute &
08:42 Ulti headphones | tee <(commute --in park) > work
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10:08 Ulti out of interest what is meant to happen with the ... operator when the interval you pick only fractionally fits the final number in the sequence?
10:08 FROGGS_ it should complain about that I think
10:09 Ulti at the moment it just hangs for me rather than complaining or just giving you all the numbers upto before the end
10:13 Ulti https://gist.github.com/MattOates/8860147 an example
10:14 Ulti oh if you wait long enough insane numbers come out
10:14 Ulti I must really really reall be doing something super dumb
10:19 jnthn You have to *match* the end point, not pass it...
10:20 jnthn I think you can use * < 100 or so as an end point, though.
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10:32 moritz probably * >= @list.end
10:36 timotimo the end point is supposed to give true for "this is the end"
10:36 timotimo so for an increasing series, you'd want something like * > $foo
10:37 timotimo why did i even start watching the ken ham / bill nye debate?
10:39 jnthn timotimo: 'cus you miss your headache and want it back? :)
10:39 timotimo that must be it
10:40 timotimo there's something i find insanely unsettling about mr. ham's claims that we cannot assume that natural laws have been valid in the past, or at least have been the same way they are now
10:41 timotimo he demonstrates this in many pieces of his argumentation, like "you can't trust radiometric dating, because you have to assume 1) ... 2) ... 3) that the rate of radioactive decay was the same back then as it is now"
10:41 timotimo or "you can't trust the rings of a tree as proper information, because you weren't there when they formed!"
10:44 timotimo also, i find it incredibly irritating that he claims that "the laws of logic" could only exist because there is some kind of creator
10:44 timotimo that's just .... what ?!
10:45 moritz that's indeed WTF
10:46 moritz though there is indeed some serious physics/astronomy research that tries to find out if coupling constants have changed in the past
10:46 timotimo interestingly, he says we have to be extra cautious about natural laws being not valid a few thousand years ago, but somehow the translation of the bible is absolutely, completely exact over the same amount of time?
10:46 moritz (so far there's no evidence for that)
10:46 timotimo it's a good thing that such an experiment has been started
10:47 moritz also, http://xkcd.com/386/ :-)
10:47 timotimo https://xkcd.com/154/
10:48 timotimo but somehow it seems to me that no matter how much ground we can take away from people with such extraordinary beliefs (and pitifully few pieces of evidence), they *always* find something they can cling to and convince others with their rethoric capabilities
10:48 Ulti timotimo: its true you can't assume evolution has always been the way it is now though, but really thats more of an argument of making it work faster further back in time :)
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10:48 timotimo Ulti: this isn't only about evolution ... tree rings forming, bubbles in ice cores from drillings near the poles ...
10:49 Ulti timotimo: what I dont understand is why they care so much... you can just say God invented evolution and from the start of the Earth knew that humans would come out as a product
10:49 timotimo following this line of beliefs leads down an *incredible* rabbit-hole
10:49 timotimo yes, you *could*, but that's not what's in Genesis
10:49 timotimo and this person is the CEO of Answers in Genesis
10:49 Ulti timotimo: yeah the young earth concept is fairly crazy, but thats what I mean there is nothing saying they have to think that
10:50 timotimo well, apparently if you follow the bible literally (litterally? haha), you find not only the 6 24-hour days interpretation of the creation of the universe, but also the life times of all the major characters would line up to give a figure of about 6000 years age of the universe
10:51 Ulti timotimo making Adam out of clay is consistent with Evolutionary theory :)
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10:52 timotimo yeah. "if eve wasn't formed from a rib stolen off of adam, why do men have one fewer rib than women?"
10:52 Ulti there is a nice bit of the Bible that also says that a day for God is like a thousand days for humans too
10:52 Ulti timotimo: we do
10:52 Ulti well one fewer than many other male mammals
10:53 timotimo that's amusing, but besides the point :)
10:53 timotimo anyway, i'll dig into moarvm smallint work now
10:54 hoelzro morning Perl6 folk
11:02 * masak .oO( the reclusive Perl 6 folk, hiding in caves in the mountains )
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11:07 Ulti I can't see anything about something like 1,4...*<9 in http://perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#Range_and_RangeIter_semantics
11:08 Ulti does 1,4...9 do what anyone expects?
11:08 jnthn But ... is about sequences, not ranges
11:08 Ulti sure but I can't do :by on a range
11:08 Ulti and if you want to segment up a list this is nice syntax that's kind of not for you even if you expect it to be
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11:52 Ven Uuuh. The bug that I noticed last time with perl6-debug disappeared. And I didn't even restart the comp ._. (I guess that's good news, though)
11:53 Ven good news is that my program still can't run with perl6-debug. Need a new test case ...
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12:38 timotimo got some LHF for someone
12:39 timotimo the nqp test suite is lacking bigint tests for radix_I and tonum_I
12:39 timotimo corecatcher: ^ sounds interesting?
12:40 timotimo also lacks tests for mod_I
12:43 timotimo i just got a full rakudo compile with smallbigint support
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12:46 timotimo now i made it through the test suite, but forgot to use the summary script, so i won't see if any bigint related fails are happening m)
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12:51 hoelzro what determines which perl6-? is installed as perl6?
12:53 yakudza hoelzro, #which perl6 maybe ?
12:53 hoelzro yakudza: sorry?
12:54 timotimo whichever is the first one in --backend= or whichever is found first (usually jvm)
12:54 hoelzro ahhhh
12:54 timotimo but it's just a symlink, so AFAICT you can just redirect that
12:55 hoelzro I'm looking at ufo (I'm trying rakudo-star modules with perl6-m and seeing which don't work), and I'm wondering how the case should be handled when the user has multiple backends installed
12:55 hoelzro (although that's probably very infrequent for regular users)
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12:57 hoelzro so if the backend is parrot, ufo should write a makefile that generates pir files
12:57 hoelzro hmm
12:58 hoelzro I'm guessing that it should just correspond to the backend that's running
12:58 hoelzro and if a user wants to explicitly install for a given backend, they can just do perl6-j ufo
12:59 timotimo the GSoC project "let rakudo handle precomp" would be helpful here
12:59 hoelzro timotimo: link?
12:59 timotimo http://wiki.enlightenedperl.org/gsoc2014/ideas
13:01 hoelzro timotimo: so would that entail a backend-agnostic way of generating precompiled modules from an input?
13:01 hoelzro ex. perl6 --compile-module Module.pm > Module.pmc
13:01 hoelzro (.pmc is taken though, right?)
13:02 jnthn Well, in the end it's just gonna be perl6 --install Foo.pm, once we get the comp unit repo stuff in place?
13:03 timotimo hoelzro: i think so
13:03 timotimo with what jnthn said
13:03 hoelzro I see
13:03 hoelzro so ufo will go away?
13:05 timotimo if rakudo will handle dependencies, as well, yeah
13:05 timotimo but setting up a little test runner and stuff would still be neat
13:12 hoelzro for the time being, though, ufo is the way to go, right?
13:12 jnthn hoelzro: yes
13:12 hoelzro ok
13:13 hoelzro now I know what to work on tomorrow =)
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13:57 timotimo if someone wants to spent a little bit of time with moarvm, the jnthn_bigint_opt branch causes a few test failures in the rakudo spectest suite: t/spec/S03-operators/arith.t tests 2-3 (the rest fail in master, too); t/spec/S03-operators/numeric-shift.t (only new failures); t/spec/integration/lazy-bentley-generator.t (1 failure on the branch, 0 on master)
13:58 timotimo you would have to look at src/math/bigintops.c; especially the bigint_shl and bigint_shr opcodes seem to be pretty terribly wrong when it comes to negative numbers
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15:33 timotimo d'oh
15:33 timotimo i started the benchmark run and it immediately failed
15:33 timotimo i wrote nqp-moar instead of nqp-moarvm
15:33 timotimo so it didn't even build a single backend :(
15:34 masak from the bright side, it ran very quickly :>
15:35 timotimo i ran somewhat quickly, too
15:35 timotimo 5.3 km/h average
15:37 PerlJam 5.3km/h isn't much of a run.  More like a fast walk.
15:38 timotimo yes
15:38 timotimo it was a walk
15:38 timotimo i'm not very good at walking slowly, or at a "normal" pace
15:49 * moritz just got the "jQuery Cookbook", and its author is literally "jQuery community Experts".
15:50 * moritz likes that
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16:10 timotimo hm, surprisingly little activity in perl6land today
16:11 timotimo seems like i'll have to look into these test failures myself later :\
16:11 jnthn timotimo: Well, I'm doing $dayjob bits today :)
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16:55 masak sorry, I've been stealing jnthn today ;)
16:56 smls jnthn: "in the end it's just gonna be perl6 --install Foo.pm" ... Are you sure it's wise to tie module distribution/installation so closely to the language implementation?
16:57 smls Doesn't experience with other languages suggest that packaging/distribution/installation tools will want (need?) to evolve even long after the language is stable?
16:58 timotimo you have?
16:59 TimToady smls: that's just a SMODI
17:00 smls A what?
17:00 nwc10 bad masak, no curry
17:01 TimToady or a SMOIOC
17:01 TimToady which I guess is a SMOCLONE
17:02 timotimo small matter of dependency injection?
17:02 timotimo and inversion of control for the second one?
17:04 jnthn iirc the design is such you can change what --install means
17:06 smls ah
17:07 TimToady jnthn: but who is "you" there?
17:10 TimToady some days it's much easier for me to play the part of a confused person...
17:10 TimToady this would be one of those days
17:10 * colomon is not playing a part far too often...
17:14 jnthn TimToady: "somebody other than Rakudo compiler devs" :)
17:17 smls For what it's worth, I think Python has arrived at a pretty good set of distribution/installation tools (pip, virtualenv, ...).
17:17 smls But that wasn't always the case; it evolved separately from the language and asserted itself against competing solutions "in the market", so to speak.
17:17 btyler althougn not without some growing pains (easy_install, etc)
17:17 btyler *although
17:18 smls The point is, some of the use-cases covered by the moden tools were probably not even anticipated by the original creators of Python.
17:18 geekosaur what is this "-s"
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17:29 timotimo i would really love to see rakudo come with a nice virtualenv-like solution
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17:47 raydiak morning
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17:55 timotimo benchmarking rakudo-jvm takes sooooo looooooong >_<
17:56 timotimo actually, i think after that i still have set it up to benchmark nqp-{moarvm,parrot,jvm}
18:10 raydiak I have tried for a couple days to answer this question on my own, but I feel like I'm just wasting time spinning my wheels: is there any way to control how my class behaves in list/item/sink context? specifically I want a subclass of Array to not flatten
18:11 moritz raydiak: well, sink context simply calls method sink
18:12 moritz controlling flattening isn't that easy, I fear
18:12 moritz I'll think about it a bit; dinner first&
18:12 timotimo aye, that indeed seems like a problematic spot
18:12 raydiak moritz: thanks, I'll add that to my notes; I guess my question assumed the answer would be the same for any context...list is the one I have problems with
18:12 timotimo would "is Positional" be a big contributor to that?
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18:13 timotimo i seem to recall at least one piece of code checking for istype Positional before flattening
18:13 * raydiak cannot figure out what positional even does...the content of core/Positional.pm is not helpful
18:14 raydiak of course I mean "does" from an internals standpoint...I understand what the specs say about it
18:14 raydiak List and Array have methods and private attributes for flat and flattens and such, but overriding them in my class seems to have no effect
18:15 raydiak and reading the comments, it looks like $!flattens has more to do with whether it flattens it's contents, not whether it itself flattens
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18:17 timotimo well, accessing a private variable will never cross class boundaries
18:17 timotimo if you access $!flattens in a subclass, you'll get an error, if you define $!flattens in your subclass, it'll be a separate attribute
18:18 timotimo you can nqp::bindattr(self, ParentClass, '$!flattens', 1) and see if that helps any
18:18 timotimo but that's rakudo-specific unfortunately
18:19 raydiak erm...duh; thank you...guess I'm losing track of the "little" stuff in the hunt for my big white whale :P
18:19 timotimo ;)
18:19 ajr_ apropos this morning's discussion of distribution tools, I have a little script for downloading & installing rakudo*
18:19 timotimo er, hold on
18:19 ajr_ If anyone wants it, they're welcome to it.
18:19 timotimo i seem to remember a discussion very recently about calling private methods in your parent (or child) class
18:20 timotimo i think it didn't work for attributes, though
18:20 raydiak yeah, using trusts
18:20 timotimo i thought it would work without trusts
18:20 raydiak oh that'd be neat
18:20 timotimo ah, no, that's only for if you're in the same class, but try to access a private method of a different instance of your same class
18:20 timotimo i think you're right
18:21 timotimo i think i ought to organise some dinner and maybe do some $dayjob afterwards
18:21 timotimo still benchmarking rakudo-jvm >_>
18:21 FROGGS I am done with $dayjob \o/
18:22 raydiak but again, I don't think $!flattens actually does what I want anyway, if I'm reading correctly
18:22 timotimo may be, aye
18:22 raydiak thank you for the advice timotimo, enjoy dinner :)
18:22 timotimo you can inspect instances with .DUMP, btw
18:22 timotimo it should display the value of flattens and other private attributes clearly
18:23 timotimo it's not too late to go to the less distant grocery store \o/
18:23 timotimo i'ma gettin' me some cukes, aaaaaw yiss!
18:23 raydiak cool, I'll try DUMP while I'm poking around at things
18:23 nwc10 FROGGS: is qx{} the only pipe related thing that Panda needs? Or does it use others, but only for rare things?
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18:40 raydiak r: class Foo is Array { method mkfoo(|a) { my $self = self.new(|a); nqp::bindattr($self, List, '$!flattens', False); return $self; } }; my @foo = (^3).map: {Foo.mkfoo($_,$_)}; say @foo.perl;
18:40 camelia rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«P6opaque: no such attribute '$!flattens'␤  in method mkfoo at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
18:40 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«Can not bind attribute '$!flattens' declared in class 'List' with this object␤  in method mkfoo at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
18:40 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«java.lang.RuntimeException: No such attribute '$!flattens' for this object␤  in method mkfoo at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
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18:41 raydiak what am I doing wrong?
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18:53 timotimo does Array derive from List?
18:53 timotimo p: say Array.mro;
18:53 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«No such method 'mro' for invocant of type 'Array'␤  in block  at /tmp/leSYYYnZaK:1␤␤»
18:53 timotimo p: say Array.^mro;
18:53 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«(Array) (List) (Iterable) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
18:53 timotimo ah, indeed.
18:53 timotimo huh.
18:56 raydiak I can at least feel good that I didn't waste all this time on an easy problem :) sometimes I get in these jams and when I finally ask, someone has the answer in 5 seconds
18:57 timotimo i know that feel
18:57 timotimo i also often feel bad for nagging other perl6ers with my problems ;)
18:58 TimToady trying to make a non-flattening array type by derivation from Array just feels all wrong to me
18:58 TimToady arrays naturally are itemized by the itemizing process of putting them in a $ container
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18:59 TimToady that's a user decision, not the class decision
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18:59 TimToady at best, you could do a has instead, possibly delegation to an Array
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19:00 raydiak when I put it in a $, that works fine...just not when I do @ary.push: DontFlattenMe.new()
19:00 grondilu std: say { { $a ~ $^b }($^a) }("foo");
19:00 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Variable $a is not predeclared at /tmp/E6fDSa03vD line 1:�------> [32msay { { [33m�[31m$a ~ $^b }($^a) }("foo");[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 126m�»
19:01 TimToady functions and methods (such as new()) return parcels, which are officially uncommitted
19:02 grondilu std: say { .($^a) given { $a ~ $^b } }("foo");
19:02 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 126m␤»
19:02 grondilu rn: say { .($^a) given { $a ~ $^b } }("foo");
19:02 TimToady you could have the constructor itemize self, but then it'd probably leak out other places
19:02 raydiak wait, what if I just tack '.item' on to the return from the constructor...or all the methods?
19:02 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«foofoo␤»
19:02 raydiak right
19:03 TimToady well, it's not "self" to the constructor, but what bless returns
19:03 skids r: say uint111.^mro # on non-ICU star this gives "no ICU lib loaded" for any bogus uint size, but not for int.
19:03 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    uint111 used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
19:03 TimToady that'd be more or less what [...] returns
19:05 TimToady of course, you could also just return an ordinary array, put .item on where it's called, and then it's documented to the user :)
19:05 raydiak this is true :)
19:05 TimToady or define a .push-items
19:06 TimToady which just push with a ** instead of a *
19:06 TimToady or, if lol were implemented, push lol ...
19:07 raydiak I know we already had this discussion, but is there something more appropriate than Array, which does not flatten?
19:07 TimToady what do you want it for?
19:07 raydiak vectors and matrices
19:08 raydiak japhb's Math::ThreeD proposal...I've put a lot of work in on it
19:09 TimToady when *do* you want to trate them as plural rather than singular?
19:09 TimToady *treat
19:10 raydiak probably no time, except when they do a zen slice explicitly or something
19:10 TimToady there are lots of objects that are mostly singular on the outside, and plural on the inside
19:10 TimToady we don't generally try to force them into the Array mold
19:11 raydiak it also needs to be fast and use native types when they are more fully working
19:11 TimToady these guys sound like items that happen to have shaped arrays on the inside, but it's a has-a relationship, not an is-a relationship
19:11 TimToady sure, I have no problem with speed :)
19:12 TimToady the compiler is supposed to be smart about native attributes
19:12 timotimo .o( he doesn't have a problem with drugs^Wspeed, he just doesn't get them^Wit )
19:12 raydiak :)
19:14 TimToady I think this will all become much clearer when we actually have shaped arrays
19:14 timotimo i'm looking forward to that. and native/packed arrays
19:14 TimToady anyone wanna implement S09 this weekend? :D
19:15 raydiak that'd be great...right now the matrices are just implemented as a single array with overloaded subscripting to make it "look" 2D
19:15 PerlJam I sometimes wonder how hard it would be to wire the C bits of PDL to rakudo
19:15 timotimo i wonder if we could do better than that :P
19:15 TimToady raydiak: well, that's basically all APLish languages ever do :)
19:15 timotimo (though all i know about PDL is that it's basically the NumPy equivalent in Perl land)
19:16 PerlJam timotimo: you mean NumPy is the PDL equivalent in python-land  :)
19:16 raydiak TimToady: thanks; I feel less like it's an ugly hack, then
19:17 timotimo PerlJam: whatever :)
19:17 TimToady typical data in, say, J, is a number of dimensions, followed by the sizes of each dimension, followed by a flat list of all the values
19:18 timotimo i'm up to nqp-jvm now \o/
19:19 TimToady so a map over such a shaped array doesn't even have to consider the dimensionality, it just skips dimensional info and maps the flat part
19:19 raydiak hmmm...that sort of structure might be good to put reusably in a separate module from this math stuff I'm working on
19:19 TimToady it is a view that is very antithetical to laziness, but we've already said that shaped arrays are probably not lazy at all
19:20 TimToady it might be what we actually want under shaped arrays most of the time
19:20 timotimo i'm expecting the underlying data structure to look kind of like that
19:20 timotimo numpy has a concept of "strides"
19:21 timotimo which i believe will allow you to map any data ordering (C style or Pascal style, for example) without much extra code
19:21 TimToady yes, well, that's a way to optimize a dim map into a C-ish pointer-increment notion
19:21 timotimo you seem to already know more about it than i do :D
19:22 timotimo so i'll shut up and start cooking
19:22 TimToady when you think about it, the strides are just really cumulative dimensions small than this one
19:22 raydiak save me a piece of cucumber :)
19:22 timotimo cucumber is for breakfast tomorrow :)
19:23 raydiak well fine then...I seem to end up here every day lately anyway
19:23 TimToady shaped arrays with extensible dimensions will, of course, need different treatment
19:24 TimToady we can still do the full arrays of arrays thing internally at need, with loss of efficiency
19:24 TimToady but the *semantics* of shaped arrays stay the same
19:24 TimToady such as it being the natural leaf mapping for hypers
19:24 * TimToady is writing like his fever is going back up...which it probably is...
19:25 raydiak idk how fast it'd be, but you could do the same mapping over a variable-length list, and splice things in/out...would just have to keep track of where the dimension breaks are as they move
19:26 TimToady sounds much slower than an appropriate AoA structure internally
19:26 TimToady would probably save memory though
19:26 TimToady but that approach doesn't allow for ragged dimensions either
19:27 raydiak it'd get messy, that's for sure
19:28 raydiak what are arrays, internally? linked lists? lookup tables? or I suppose that's up to the specific backend...???...
19:28 skids I always wonders if DFAs for translating indices to scattered pointer/addresses could be compiled with JIT-like speed and reliable performance bounds.
19:29 skids Where it matters of course is when you pass that array to a library with a continuous memory model for arrays.
19:30 skids (last sentence IRT raydiak)
19:31 raydiak oh, right...I always forget that we have all these FFI/nativecall considerations
19:32 skids Well, it also matters if you're compiler/JIT is mature enough to tackle SIMD instructions.
19:32 moritz I'm pretty sure the parrot backend implements arrays as a continuous chunk of memory
19:33 moritz but if you don't use a natively typed array, the elements in there are containers, which means pointers
19:33 raydiak got it
19:35 TimToady pointers are just native containers :)
19:35 TimToady well, C native, not JVM native :)
19:38 PerlJam Is there a way to get a space in a character class?  I thought  <[ ' ' A..Z ]>  might work, but it appears not.  Do I have to use a different representation like hex or something?
19:38 moritz \  maybe?
19:38 moritz r: say ' ' ~~ /<[\ ]>/
19:38 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«「 」␤␤»
19:39 PerlJam doh!  Overlooked the obvious again
19:39 PerlJam thanks moritz++
19:39 raydiak note to self: '\ ' is not an unspace in a regex
19:42 * raydiak goes to splatter '.item' all over the Math::ThreeD branch of Pray
19:43 timotimo test
19:43 FROGGS ok 1 -
19:43 moritz plan 1..1;
19:43 FROGGS s/;//
19:43 FROGGS :P
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19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: 90b3d61 | jnthn++ | tools/build/create-jvm-runner.pl:
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: Fix JVM runner install on Win32.
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/90b3d61a41
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: 2ce599a | raydiak++ | docs/architecture.html:
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: Fix typo
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2ce599a7a0
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: e4e8625 | moritz++ | docs/architecture.html:
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: Merge pull request #251 from raydiak/nom
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe:
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: Just a trivial typo fix
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e4e8625db5
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: cdb7dfa | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into wip-openpipe
19:47 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cdb7dfa02d
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19:52 timotimo wat.
19:53 timotimo i thought my connection w
19:53 timotimo yeah. it was.
19:53 timotimo ./bench time rakudo-moar/e4e8625 rakudo-parrot/e4e8625 rakudo-jvm/e4e8625     20070,57s user 499,63s system 155% cpu 3:40:35,32 total
19:53 timotimo >_<
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20:03 FROGGS http://video.fosdem.org/2014/K3201/Saturday/
20:08 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 465 commits to rakudo/eleven by FROGGS
20:08 nsh_ joined #perl6
20:08 nsh_ joined #perl6
20:09 dalek panda/eleven: 41a73f3 | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
20:09 dalek panda/eleven: Merge pull request #60 from FROGGS/master
20:09 dalek panda/eleven:
20:09 dalek panda/eleven: use $*EXECUTABLE_NAME instead of hard-coded 'perl6'
20:09 dalek panda/eleven: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/41a73f3e2a
20:09 FROGGS sorry dalek
20:10 dalek joined #perl6
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20:13 vendethiel hahahaha
20:14 xenoterracide joined #perl6
20:16 dalek rakudo/eleven: 1e9716d | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/Makefile- (2 files):
20:16 dalek rakudo/eleven: build CompUnitRepo on moarv/jvm too
20:16 dalek rakudo/eleven: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1e9716db65
20:24 dalek panda/eleven: 2085f7b | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Fetcher.pm:
20:24 dalek panda/eleven: moar does not like to take a substr OOB
20:24 dalek panda/eleven: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/2085f7bfd2
20:24 rjbs joined #perl6
20:25 rjbs Whoops, I never came back after freenode's ddos!
20:25 rjbs Anyway, I just wanted to note that there's a .cool TLD now, and perl6.cool is probably available...
20:26 dalek panda/eleven: f1b0035 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Common.pm:
20:26 dalek panda/eleven: fix spello
20:26 dalek panda/eleven: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/f1b00350cd
20:29 timotimo rjbs: that's not bad!
20:29 timotimo rjbs: is it prohibitively expensive?
20:29 rjbs I'm afraid I don't know any .cool registrars offhand.
20:30 * moritz knows a registrar that will try to sign up for any TLD
20:30 timotimo http://www.donuts.co/tlds/ - these people have .cool
20:30 dalek panda/eleven: 659b62b | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/ (2 files):
20:30 dalek panda/eleven: add comptarget(), and also moarvm fileext/target
20:30 dalek panda/eleven: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/659b62be3e
20:30 rjbs Oops, a few weeks left.
20:30 rjbs Well, now you've got the info to get in line!
20:30 timotimo it seems like the "sunrise" thing is an auction kind of deal
20:31 timotimo i'd hazard a guess that if we go to the auction and say "we want perl6" someone's going "hey! someone wants perl6! i should get it for as expensive as they are willing to pay, add a bunch more and then offer them an even worse price for it!"
20:36 treehug88 joined #perl6
20:40 FROGGS funny, panda fails on moar like it did once or twice on parrot
20:41 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
20:45 moritz "spectacularly"?
20:45 FROGGS no
20:45 FROGGS it does not compile to mbc when invoked via bootstrap.pl
20:45 FROGGS but it does when I do the steps manually
20:46 FROGGS shell() return non-zero in the failing case
20:46 FROGGS but I don't know why yet
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21:06 itz grrr many (most?) of the FOSDEM videos are unwatchable
21:07 btyler itz: for jnthn's the sound sorts itself out after 5 minutes or so
21:07 timotimo yup
21:07 timotimo after half an hour, there's some buzzing again
21:08 btyler also: jnthn - awesome FOSDEM presentation. a small request to repeat audience questions into the mic in the future :)
21:09 Timbus joined #perl6
21:09 itz I was at jnthn's talk and it was excellent and shall watch again
21:10 beastd joined #perl6
21:11 grondilu rn: say { .($^a) given { $a ~ $^b } }("foo");
21:11 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«foofoo␤»
21:11 regreg joined #perl6
21:12 grondilu oops, bad history call
21:12 timotimo ... huh?
21:13 timotimo i don't understand that.
21:13 grondilu I pressed "upper-arrow + return" in the wrong screen window :/
21:14 grondilu sorry
21:14 timotimo i mean i don't understand why it doesn't complain about improper number of arguments
21:14 timotimo i mean
21:14 timotimo oh
21:14 timotimo given actually sets the $_ to a block
21:15 grondilu yeah that's related to something I wanted to try for runge-kutta on RC
21:15 grondilu it won't work, though
21:15 timotimo mh
21:17 grondilu because apparently I can't put self-declared parameters at a non-first place
21:17 timotimo huh?
21:17 grondilu std: say { $a + $^a }
21:17 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Variable $a is not predeclared at /tmp/wg6uDlfNl9 line 1:�------> [32msay { [33m�[31m$a + $^a }[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 125m�»
21:17 timotimo well, there you just don't have a $a
21:18 timotimo $^a will not cause a $a to plop into existence
21:18 treehug88 joined #perl6
21:18 timotimo but you can write $^a as many times as you like
21:18 grondilu std: say { $^a + $a }
21:18 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 125m␤»
21:18 timotimo er ... huh?
21:18 timotimo that doesn't seem sensible to me.
21:18 grondilu you don't have to use $^ several times.  Only once is required
21:19 timotimo i don't like that :(
21:19 grondilu well, it saves some characters
21:19 timotimo at other times, the twigil doesn't change so readily
21:20 jercos well there's the whole $.a/$!a thing...
21:20 timotimo yes, but that's not just "removing a twigil"
21:21 grondilu the ^ is for declaring.  You usually declare things only once, don't you?
21:21 lue grondilu: where does it say that $^a is only needed once?
21:21 timotimo those are implicitly declared, though
21:21 lue note that    say { $a + $^a }    will never work, because one-pass parsing I believe.
21:22 grondilu lue: I don't know where it is specced, but that's how it currently works
21:22 TimToady needing to repeat a parameter is a very good sign that it's time to declare a formal sig
21:22 timotimo hmm.
21:22 lue r: say {$^a + $a}(3)
21:22 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«6␤»
21:22 lue ew
21:22 lue r: my $a = 5; say {$^a + $a}(3)
21:22 grondilu I could have used pointy block, but calling them requires parenthesis
21:23 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«6␤»
21:23 jercos r: say {[+] $^a x 2}(3)
21:23 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«33␤»
21:23 jercos erm
21:23 jercos r: say {[+] $^a xx 2}(3)
21:23 lue r: my $b = 5; say {$^a + $b}(3)
21:23 grondilu r: say (-> $a { $a + $a })(2)
21:23 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«6␤»
21:23 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«8␤»
21:23 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«4␤»
21:23 grondilu ??
21:23 lue r: my $b = 5; say {$^a + $b}(3)
21:23 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«8␤»
21:24 jercos or, y'know...
21:24 jercos r: my $a = 5; say {$_ + $a}(3)
21:24 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«8␤»
21:24 jercos but that would be too easy >.>
21:24 lue TimToady: I really don't like how $^a clobbers outside $a vars.
21:24 grondilu jercos: that would not have worked with what I had in mind of runge-kutta
21:24 jercos lue: clobbers?
21:25 lue r: my $a = 5; say {$^a + $a}(3); say {$^b + $a}(3);
21:25 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«6␤8␤»
21:25 jercos ^
21:25 timotimo agreed.
21:25 jercos Looks clobberless to me...
21:26 timotimo it ... does?
21:26 jercos Ideantical to -> $a {}
21:26 lue if  $^a  were spelled  my $a  then I'd be fine, but that's a nasty side effect for a twigil
21:26 lue $^a should always need to be spelled $^a, in my opinion.
21:26 jercos In my mind for it to "clobber", the second example there would have to return 6.
21:26 timotimo i agree with lue, fwiw
21:27 lue jercos: it does clobber what the name "$a" refers to
21:27 jercos But only within the scope of that block.
21:27 grondilu that's fine, imho
21:27 timotimo there's a certain amount of WAT to that
21:27 jercos I mean, I can see what you're saying, but the term "clobber" doesn't seem like it applies here.
21:27 timotimo especially if perl6 doesn't warn if you repeat the $^a form
21:28 lue jercos: previous meaning replaced with new one unintentionally. Sounds like clobbering to me.
21:28 jnap joined #perl6
21:28 lue to me the ^ twigil means "implicit parameter", not "implicit declaration of parameter"
21:28 TimToady if it hurts, DON'T DO THAT!
21:29 timotimo i'm 100% with lue so far
21:29 lue don't imitate  no strict  when I didn't ask for it :)
21:29 timotimo TimToady: i think finding the cause of the hurt if you didn't run after every single line you've added to your program can be frustrating
21:30 TimToady don't use ^ parameters where they don't make complete sense, that's not what they're for
21:30 timotimo oh well.
21:31 vendethiel agreed with lue
21:31 vendethiel to me, it seems $^ and $ and two different variables
21:32 lue r: say {$:foo + $foo}(:foo(5))
21:32 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«10␤»
21:32 lue at least rakudo's consistent
21:32 lue n: say {$:foo + $foo}(:foo(5))
21:32 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«10␤»
21:33 TimToady look, both : and ^ say "autogen me a signature
21:33 TimToady they have to be smart about the signature in question
21:33 TimToady std: sub foo() { $^a }
21:33 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Placeholder variable $^a cannot override existing signature () at /tmp/U9fdb6USi1 line 1:�------> [32msub foo() { [33m�[31m$^a }[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 125m�»
21:34 vendethiel and that could be called $^a, simply
21:34 TimToady the "upness" of ^ is to hoist $a into the sig
21:34 lue fwiw I could see why you'd want the current behavior, though I'm not a fan of the twigil not being a distinct type of variable (same reason for the lesser degree to which I dislike $.foo)
21:34 TimToady std: sub foo($^a) { ... }
21:34 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤You may not use the ^ twigil in a signature at /tmp/SIF1jh66XD line 1:â�¤------> [32msub foo($[33mâ��[31m^a) { ... }[0mâ�¤    expecting twigilâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:01 123mâ�¤Â»
21:34 TimToady not that simple
21:35 vendethiel TimToady: user restrictions doesn't impose compiler restrictions
21:35 timotimo jnthn: i enjoyed your talk a whole lot :)
21:35 timotimo aside from the buzzing, but that's not your fault
21:36 lue TimToady: my only objection to it is that I wouldn't expect {$^a} to have the same effects as sub foo($a){}; I expect $^a to always have to be referenced as $^a
21:37 TimToady well, it's a WAT either way you do that, so I have little sympathy here
21:37 TimToady there's lot's of other WATs as soon as you start abusing placeholders too
21:38 TimToady they are in there specifically for a + b kinds of stuff
21:38 TimToady they are not meant to be a general replacement for siggies
21:39 grondilu I whish there was a version of the pointy block where the arrow is inside the block.
21:40 grondilu something like:  { -> $a, $b: $a + $b }
21:40 PerlJam grondilu: why?
21:40 TimToady Ruby envy?
21:40 grondilu because then it could be called without parenthesis
21:40 TimToady I think you work to hard sometimes to avoid parens :)
21:40 TimToady *too
21:40 lue TimToady: agree with you on the WAT business, I just like my twigils to be a distinct kind of variable :) [$foo != $!foo != $~foo ...]
21:40 grondilu :)  yeah, maybe
21:42 TimToady as long as I'm in a complete bitchy mood, I also don't like when you put whitespace on one side of infix:<*> and not the other
21:42 vendethiel m: my @a = (); say $a.perl;
21:42 camelia rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/p33aGhvHauâ�¤Variable '$a' is not declared. Did you mean '@a'?â�¤at /tmp/p33aGhvHau:1â�¤------> [32mmy @a = (); say $a.perl[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        method argumentsâ�¤Â»
21:42 TimToady lessee, anything else I can complain about...
21:42 vendethiel If that doesn't work, I don't think $^a should work for $a
21:42 lue vendethiel: this isn't P5 :)
21:43 vendethiel lue: of course it isn't ! But it's all about consistency
21:43 skids .oO(mmmm.  hobgoblins.)
21:43 lue sigils refer to a type of container, the twigils refer to other details about the variable.
21:43 PerlJam skids++ my thoughts too
21:44 lue I don't agree entirely with how <[.^:]> operate, though I can live with it :)
21:44 TimToady twigils usually mean "strange scoping"
21:44 vendethiel lue: definitely. It doesn't mean we can have a bit of consistency between var prefixes
21:45 TimToady note that $*ENV might end up finding PROCESS::ENV, where'd your * go?
21:45 * skids thinks that the use of ^ (hat) is an adequate reminder that some masquerading is about to occur.
21:46 lue TimToady: obviously we need to invent package twigils:  PROCESS:*:ENV , OUTER:~:RREGEX  :P
21:46 TimToady there's no consistency to achieve here, and $^a meaning $a in the sig is a very simple rule
21:46 berekuk joined #perl6
21:47 TimToady std: my $a; { $a + $^a }
21:47 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤$a has already been used as a non-placeholder in the surrounding block,â�¤  so you will confuse the reader if you suddenly declare $^a here at /tmp/pEH0v23tZh line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy $a; { $a + [33mâ��[31m$^a }[0mâ�¤Check fai…»
21:48 vendethiel now that's nice
21:48 TimToady it's a general thing
21:48 TimToady std: my $a; { $a + 42; my $a = 43 }
21:48 timotimo that sounds like an LHF to port to rakudo
21:48 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Lexical symbol '$a' is already bound to an outer symbol (see line 1);â�¤  the implicit outer binding at line 1 must be rewritten as OUTER::<$a>â�¤  before you can unambiguously declare a new '$a' in this scope at /tmp/r1onRgAtlS l…»
21:48 lue rakudo needs to do that :)
21:49 lue std: my $a; { $^a + $a }
21:49 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 126m␤»
21:49 TimToady yes, we treat it as declaration, so all the other declarational mechanism works
21:50 TimToady including "Oh, you changed the meaning of $a from earlier in this block"
21:50 TimToady we don't allow much in the way of retroactive declaration
21:50 TimToady only for things that can be parsed as listop functions
21:51 TimToady because mutual recursion is pertty darn useful, but we do it be reserving a syntax at the front, not by retroactively changing anything
21:52 lue .oO(use retcons;)
21:53 TimToady ss/do it be/do it by/
21:54 clsn I could have sworn I saw something in the spec that said that you had to use ^ on all instances of the parameter, not just the first.  Can't find it now.
21:55 TimToady if anything, it says the opposite, or it says "You *may* use ^ on all instances"
21:55 dalek panda/moar-support: 359402d | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Fetcher.pm:
21:55 dalek panda/moar-support: moar does not like to take a substr OOB
21:55 dalek panda/moar-support: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/359402dbc1
21:55 dalek panda/moar-support: 3c47a06 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Common.pm:
21:55 dalek panda/moar-support: fix spello
21:55 dalek panda/moar-support: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/3c47a06e25
21:55 dalek panda/moar-support: 1c97f0c | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/ (2 files):
21:55 dalek panda/moar-support: add comptarget(), and also moarvm fileext/target
21:55 dalek panda/moar-support: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/1c97f0ca86
21:56 TimToady S06:Placeholder_variables is the section
21:57 TimToady S06:2006 is the specific paragraph
21:57 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#line_2006
21:57 TimToady ah, it even gives a justification for leaving out the ^ in the real variable
21:58 * TimToady forgets that he was sane once
21:58 timotimo oh!
21:58 timotimo that justification *is* sane, definitely
21:58 * PerlJam catches an odd bit he'd never noticed before
21:59 PerlJam std: { $^A + 5 }
21:59 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of $^A variable; in Perl 6 please use Form module at /tmp/8BTRtB7lCa line 1:�------> [32m{ $^A [33m�[31m+ 5 }[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 123m�»
21:59 TimToady And Because I Said So!!!  :)
21:59 PerlJam std: { $^X + 5 }
21:59 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of $^X variable; in Perl 6 please use $*EXECUTABLE_NAME at /tmp/Rh6dkKIX68 line 1:�------> [32m{ $^X [33m�[31m+ 5 }[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 123m�»
21:59 PerlJam nice
21:59 PerlJam r: { $^A + 5 }
21:59 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Unsupported use of $^A variable; in Perl 6 please use Form module�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32m{ $^A[33m�[31m + 5 }[0m�»
22:01 lue timotimo: ^^^ another case for no P5 warnings :)
22:02 timotimo that's not a warning, though
22:02 PerlJam lue: I conclude exactly the opposite.
22:02 timotimo should it *allow* that as a variable if you no warnings :p5?
22:03 TimToady it's not something people run into often enough to worry about, I suspect
22:03 TimToady most people naturally use lowercase placeholders by preference
22:04 TimToady plus there's always the workaround of using a real sig, or using more than one char
22:05 TimToady I do expect a lot of Perl 5 programmers to come over eventually, and confuse themselves
22:05 Rotwang joined #perl6
22:06 timotimo i'm thinking no warnings :perl5 should only remove warnings, no errors
22:06 TimToady r: ./viv -e 'say "$0 foo bar"'
22:06 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Bogus statementâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32m.[33mâ��[31m/viv -e 'say "$0 foo bar"'[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        dotty method or p…»
22:07 TimToady r: say "$0 foo bar"
22:07 PerlJam I'm thinking we can wait until Perl 6.2 or so before we have to worry about "no warnings :perl5"   :-)
22:07 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT« foo bar␤»
22:07 TimToady r: print "$0 foo bar\n"
22:07 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT« foo bar␤»
22:07 TimToady no undefined warning?
22:08 TimToady that would be a good one to catch, if we could
22:08 lue std: say "$0 bar"
22:08 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
22:08 lue r: say $0.WHAT;
22:08 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
22:08 TimToady r: say $/.WHAT
22:08 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
22:09 lue PerlJam: What I meant was that it's another thing to put in the "I don't know P5, don't act like I do" command I want :)
22:09 TimToady r: $/ := Match; say "$0 foo"
22:09 lue (Though I suppose one possible implementation of such a command could be Perl 6.1 ...)
22:10 camelia rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤  in method at_pos at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6679␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:2361␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:2325␤  in block  at /tm…»
22:10 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method at_pos at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:6681␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:2361␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:2325␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
22:10 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤  in method at_pos at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6683␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:2365␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:2329␤  in block  a…»
22:10 itz__ joined #perl6
22:12 timotimo i've got a maybe LHF; in perl6-bench, fix nqp/richards so that it works on moarvm; there's some native int/list/object/whatever confusion going on
22:13 timotimo might have to replace all list_i with list or something?
22:13 itz joined #perl6
22:20 * TimToady --> Dr to hopefully cure his grumpiness
22:20 FROGGS :/
22:20 PerlJam There's a cure for grumpiness?!?
22:20 TimToady depends on the cause :)
22:21 TimToady &
22:21 PerlJam TimToady: good luck!
22:27 benabik joined #perl6
22:29 timotimo hm, maybe i ought to take up the weekly perl6 changes blog
22:30 ashleyde1 timotimo++
22:31 vendethiel timotimo++
22:32 timotimo well, i guess that's settled then :P
22:32 vendethiel as a perl (6) beginner, that seems to be a very valuable resource
22:35 timotimo i already have a blog that i could post to ... hmm ...
22:41 timotimo hm. should i start from where GlitchMr left off or from now?
22:42 lue timotimo: depends on when GlitchMr stopped :)
22:42 vendethiel long ago, IIRC
22:43 vendethiel well, I guess it depends what you call long, actually ... 2011 or 2012 I'd say, from what I remember I've seen
22:43 timotimo er, no
22:43 timotimo he stopped at the end of last year, iirc
22:44 vendethiel oh, really ? my bad. I must confuse it with something else, then.
22:44 timotimo mayhaps
22:49 vendethiel okay, just read about `sub (Mu:D) {}`, that's cool ":D". But sometimes, there's also a closing `:`
22:50 timotimo the closing : means "the thing on the left is the invocant"
22:50 timotimo you can use that to make type constraints on the self
22:50 timotimo like "only call this if the self is not a type object"
22:50 timotimo or "only call this if self.foobar equals 42"
22:50 benabik joined #perl6
22:51 vendethiel oh, that's the same `:` as in ($self:) ?
22:51 timotimo yes
22:51 vendethiel fair enough. timotimo++
22:53 * perigrin hasn't seen a single Perl6 submission for YAPC::NA
22:53 * perigrin stares at the space that should be occupied by diakopter
22:56 kaare_ joined #perl6
23:01 timotimo i don't know how to work this jekyll thing :\
23:07 timotimo this doesn't work at all.
23:17 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:26 * Util submits my Perl (5|6) talk from Perl Oasis for YAPC::NA, for perigrin.
23:26 Util s/my/his/
23:29 perigrin thank you!
23:30 timotimo http://p6weekly.wordpress.com/ ← this is where my work will live
23:31 timotimo i may want to build some tooling to get at the information more easily
23:31 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 9d76a1a | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
23:31 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
23:31 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/9d76a1aa28
23:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: ae559b0 | coke++ | / (2 files):
23:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
23:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/ae559b0ff3
23:34 skids joined #perl6
23:37 BenGoldberg p6: (~pi).Rat.say
23:37 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«3.141592653589793␤»
23:37 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
23:37 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3.141593␤»
23:39 timotimo r: say 3.141592653589793 - 3.14159265358979
23:39 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0.000000000000003␤»
23:39 timotimo r: say ~3.141592653589793 ~- ~3.14159265358979
23:39 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«3.141592653589793-3.14159265358979␤»
23:39 timotimo er ... right
23:39 timotimo r: say ~3.141592653589793 ~& ~3.14159265358979
23:39 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
23:40 timotimo er ... that's not helpful either %)
23:40 timotimo r: .ords.join(",").say given ~3.141592653589793 ~^ ~3.14159265358979
23:40 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,51␤»
23:40 timotimo there's probably better ways to do this m)
23:44 BenGoldberg r: (3.141592653589793 - 3.14159265358979).fmt("%f").say
23:44 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0.000000␤»
23:44 BenGoldberg r: (3.141592653589793 - 3.14159265358979).fmt("%e").say
23:44 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«2.000000e-15␤»
23:44 BenGoldberg r: (3.141592653589793 - 3.14159265358979).WHAT.say
23:45 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
23:45 BenGoldberg r: (3.141592653589793 - 3.14159265358979).nude.say
23:45 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«3 1000000000000000␤»
23:46 jnthn r: my $a; sub foo() { say $a; my $a; }
23:46 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Lexical symbol '$a' is already bound to an outer symbol;�the implicit outer binding must be rewritten as OUTER::<$a>�before you can unambiguous…»
23:46 jnthn That's already working, so the palceholder fix should be quite easy :)
23:49 daniel-s joined #perl6
23:51 timotimo oh well.
23:51 timotimo good night for now! :)
23:51 timotimo corecatcher: ^^ what jnthn just mentioned may be an LHF for you :)  (it's actually about http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-02-07#i_8250030 )
23:52 regreg joined #perl6

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