Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-02-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:08 TimToady r: pi.round(0.00000000000001)
00:08 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: ( no output )
00:08 TimToady r: pi.round(0.00000000000001).say
00:08 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
00:08 TimToady r: pi.round(0.00000000000001).WHAT.say
00:08 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
00:10 dbrock__ joined #perl6
00:19 BenGoldberg r: pi.round(0.00000000000001).WHAT.say
00:19 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
00:19 BenGoldberg r: pi.round(0.00000000000001).Rat.nude.say
00:19 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«314159265358979 100000000000000␤»
00:20 TimToady if it's already a Rat, you don't have to convert it
00:20 BenGoldberg Just noticed that ;)
00:21 BenGoldberg r: pi.round(1e-14).WHAT.say
00:22 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
00:22 TimToady you have to give it a Rat to get a Rat
00:22 TimToady we talked once about having an e-like notation for Rats
00:22 TimToady 1r-14 or some such
00:23 BenGoldberg r: pi.round(Rat.new(1,1e14)).WHAT.say
00:23 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter 'de'; expected Int but got Num instead␤  in method new at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:9846␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
00:23 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter 'de'␤  in method new at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:9826␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
00:23 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter 'de'; expected Int but got Num␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:9826␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
00:23 TimToady r: say (1/10**14).WHAT
00:23 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
00:23 TimToady that's about the shortest way to write it currently
00:24 BenGoldberg p6: (pi - pi.round(0.00000000000001)).fmt("%e").say
00:24 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«3.108624e-15␤»
00:24 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3.108624e-015␤»
00:24 TimToady r: say (10**-14).WHAT
00:24 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
00:24 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
00:24 TimToady arguably that could return a Rat
00:25 TimToady er...Int?!?
00:25 TimToady r: say 10**-14
00:25 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«1e-14␤»
00:25 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«1.0E-14␤»
00:25 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0␤»
00:25 TimToady um, oopsie
00:25 TimToady moarbug, I'd say
00:26 TimToady r: say 0.1**14
00:26 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0.00000000000001␤»
00:26 TimToady r: say (0.1**14).WHAT
00:26 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
00:27 TimToady r: say .1**14
00:27 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0.00000000000001␤»
00:27 TimToady I guess that's about as short as you can get it
00:28 BenGoldberg p6: pi.round(.1**25).say
00:29 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«3.141592653589793␤»
00:29 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
00:29 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«6262.4769253271943␤»
00:29 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«-9.22337203685478e-07␤»
00:29 ponbiki joined #perl6
00:29 TimToady they store pi as a Num, I believe
00:29 TimToady but niecza and moar seem bogus
00:29 jnthn r: say pi.WHAT # Rat, I thought...
00:29 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
00:29 jnthn Oh :)
00:29 BenGoldberg p6: pi.round(.1**25).WHAT.say
00:30 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
00:30 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
00:30 TimToady I guess it just gives up and returns the original Num
00:30 BenGoldberg But that doesn't explain nieca or moar
00:30 TimToady or is that larger than 64 bits?
00:31 TimToady r: say 2 ** 64 < 10 ** 25
00:31 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«True␤»
00:31 TimToady r: say (.1 ** 25).WHAT
00:31 BenGoldberg p6: pi.round(.1**$_).WHAT.say for 15 .. 25
00:31 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
00:31 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤(Rat)␤(Rat)␤(Rat)␤(Rat)␤​Num()␤Num()␤Num()␤Num()␤Num()␤Num()␤»
00:31 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤(Rat)␤(Rat)␤(Rat)␤(Rat)␤​(Num)␤(Num)␤(Num)␤(Num)␤(Num)␤(Num)␤»
00:32 BenGoldberg p6: pi.round(.1**$_).WHAT.say for 19 .. 20
00:32 TimToady beyond that, you'd need to depend on NYI semanics for constants
00:32 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤(Num)␤»
00:32 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤Num()␤»
00:32 BenGoldberg What is niecza say Num() instead of (Num)?
00:32 BenGoldberg p6: pi.round(.1**$_).say for 19 .. 20
00:33 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3.1415926535897931776␤3.1415926535897931␤»
00:33 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«-0.922337203685478␤-0.0922337203685478␤»
00:33 camelia ..rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«3.141592653589793␤3.141592653589793␤»
00:33 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979318␤3.14159265358979␤»
00:33 TimToady S02:Allomorphic_Rats
00:34 jnthn iirc, Num() got re-specced to (Num)
00:34 jnthn As the way type objects stringify
00:34 jnthn Can't remember the rational
00:34 TimToady because nobody ever fixed niecza when we respecced
00:34 jnthn Mebbe something to do with coercion types?
00:34 * jnthn guesses the type Num() would gist as (Num()) :)
00:34 TimToady Num() looks like a function call, not an "oh, by the way"
00:34 jnthn ah
00:35 BenGoldberg r: sub foo { print "nu" }; say &foo
00:35 TimToady so it's really more of an English use of parens there to make it a bit off-the-record
00:35 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«sub foo() { ... }␤»
00:36 TimToady BenGoldberg: unlike in P5, &foo will never call
00:36 TimToady it's just a noun
00:36 BenGoldberg I just wanted to see if it stringified to "foo()" :)
00:36 TimToady ah
00:36 TimToady revelations all around :)
00:37 TimToady but that's kind of the point, it *isn't* the call
00:37 TimToady and () would tend to indicate the result of a call
00:37 BenGoldberg r: sub foo(@_) { print "nu" }; say &foo
00:37 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«sub foo(@_) { ... }␤»
00:38 BenGoldberg r: sub foo { print @_ }; say &foo
00:38 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«sub foo(*@_) { ... }␤»
00:38 ponbiki_ joined #perl6
00:38 TimToady r: sub foo { say $^positional; say $:named }; say &foo
00:38 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«sub foo(Any $positional, Any :named($named)!) { ... }␤»
00:52 jnthn sleep &
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03:04 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki​/AKS_test_for_primes#Perl_6
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03:44 vendethiel r: my @a = gather for ^10 { take 'a' => [:num($_)]; };
03:44 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter 'op'␤  in sub METAOP_REDUCE_LEFT at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:16498␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:44 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter 'op'; expected Any but got Mu␤  in sub METAOP_REDUCE_LEFT at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16484␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:44 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter 'op'; expected Any but got Mu instead␤  in sub METAOP_REDUCE_LEFT at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16754␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:45 vendethiel was that syntax removed?
03:55 TimToady std: my @a = gather for ^10 { take 'a' => [:num($_)]; };
03:55 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 130m␤»
03:56 TimToady n: my @a = gather for ^10 { take 'a' => [:num($_)]; }; say @a;
03:56 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method as_function in type Any␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaActions.pm6 line 1985 (NieczaActions.term:reduce @ 11) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 3248 (P6.term:reduce @ 36) ␤  at /home/p6e…»
03:56 colomon joined #perl6
03:57 TimToady n: my @a = gather for ^10 { take ('a' => [:num($_)]); }; say @a;
03:57 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method as_function in type Any␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaActions.pm6 line 1985 (NieczaActions.term:reduce @ 11) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 3248 (P6.term:reduce @ 36) ␤  at /home/p6e…»
03:57 TimToady hmm
03:58 TimToady p6: my @a = gather for ^10 { take ('a' => [ :num($_) ]); }; say @a;
03:58 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«"a" => ["num" => 0] "a" => ["num" => 1] "a" => ["num" => 2] "a" => ["num" => 3] "a" => ["num" => 4] "a" => ["num" => 5] "a" => ["num" => 6] "a" => ["num" => 7] "a" => ["num" => 8] "a" => ["n…»
03:58 TimToady they aren't backtracking correctly when [:num($a)] fails to parse as a reduction operator
03:58 TimToady putting whitespace bypasses that check
04:00 TimToady p6: my @a = gather for ^10 { take 'a' => [ num => $_ ]; }; say @a;
04:00 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«"a" => ["num" => 0] "a" => ["num" => 1] "a" => ["num" => 2] "a" => ["num" => 3] "a" => ["num" => 4] "a" => ["num" => 5] "a" => ["num" => 6] "a" => ["num" => 7] "a" => ["num" => 8] "a" => ["n…»
04:04 [Coke] TimToady: hio.
04:10 regreg joined #perl6
04:13 TimToady o/
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06:38 TimToady .tell smls Revised http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Brace_expansion#Perl_6 so it now passes all the tests I know about
06:38 yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to smls.
06:42 moritz \o
07:06 darutoko joined #perl6
07:07 * grondilu doesn't understand what 'when :not' means :/
07:08 rindolf joined #perl6
07:08 grondilu well, I can guess, but I don't see why it works
07:32 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
07:45 stevan_ joined #perl6
07:46 raydiak who should I talk to about work I intend to do on doc.perl6.org?
07:53 raydiak I see moritz mentioned in the readme...ping?
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08:04 moritz raydiak: pong
08:05 moritz doc.perl6.org is mostly my brain child
08:05 raydiak moritz: is there any specific guidance or input you'd like to give as to where and how search should appear on the homepage?
08:06 moritz raydiak: the most important point is that if there is server-side logic involved, it should be easy to maintain
08:06 raydiak also, I see that it is very lean and simple...do you have concerns about adding js & jquery & jquery-ui...eg what are the targeted browsers/clients for support?
08:07 raydiak nope, I think it's all client-side, as it is now, though I haven't dug in yet
08:07 raydiak (adding those dependencies to the root index.html file, I mean)
08:08 moritz js & jquery is fine, as long as it's progressive enhancement
08:08 raydiak graceful failure, can do
08:08 moritz not sure about jquery-ui, that's a quite a bit heavier
08:09 moritz might be OK to use some jquery-ui components, just not the whole thing
08:09 raydiak I can probably rework to not need it, if you'd like, but it's already there in the repo
08:09 moritz it is? ok, then go ahead
08:09 moritz then I'm probably too late :-)
08:10 * moritz hasn't done that part :-)
08:10 moritz time to get a bit more sleep&
08:11 hoelzro morning #perl6!
08:11 raydiak thanks, I'm all up to speed then; sleep well
08:11 raydiak good morning hoelzro
08:11 hoelzro morning raydiak
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08:22 FROGGS morning
08:22 raydiak morning FROGGS
08:23 hoelzro morning FROGGS
08:23 FROGGS :o)
08:24 FROGGS what are we going to do today?
08:24 lawrmcfa joined #perl6
08:27 raydiak my exciting plan is to...sleep :) g'night #perl6
08:27 hoelzro I'm working on Moar =)
08:27 hoelzro night raydiak
08:28 FROGGS gnight raydiak
08:28 rurban joined #perl6
08:49 hoelzro noooo
08:49 hoelzro why did FROGGS disappear?!
09:06 FROGGS joined #perl6
09:08 timotimo o/ from an IRC client
09:14 hoelzro ahoy timotimo
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09:46 timotimo "Ian Romanick of Intel wrote, "We're absolutely not interested in anything involving LLVM. We've tried, several times, to make it work, and it has always ended with a table-flip-rage-quit.""
09:46 timotimo seems like we did the right thing not trying to get rakudo onto llvm
09:51 hoelzro a lot of people (well, Rubinius) seem to be trying to leverage LLVM as a JITer
09:53 hoelzro is dalek's source available somewhere?
09:54 hoelzro timotimo: are you up for some merging work? =)
09:55 timotimo i ... think so?
09:56 hoelzro timotimo: I just submitted pull requests for Moar and NQP, if you wanna take a look =)
09:57 timotimo oke
09:57 Adriaaan joined #perl6
09:57 timotimo it seems like you don't free the strings if the if branch isn't taken
09:58 hoelzro ah, good point.
09:59 hoelzro PR updated
09:59 dalek nqp: 991d8db | (Rob Hoelz)++ | t/nqp/19-file-ops.t:
09:59 dalek nqp: Add test for nqp::link
09:59 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/991d8db8dd
09:59 dalek nqp: 0284a16 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
09:59 dalek nqp: Fix createLink arguments for JVM
09:59 dalek nqp:
09:59 dalek nqp: They were reversed
09:59 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0284a165b9
09:59 dalek nqp: 321c06d | timo++ | / (2 files):
09:59 dalek nqp: Merge pull request #157 from hoelzro/op-link
09:59 dalek nqp:
09:59 dalek nqp: Add test for nqp::link and fix it on the JVM
09:59 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/321c06d318
09:59 timotimo if these tests you added succeed, that seems good to me now :)
10:00 hoelzro I tested them on each VM =)
10:00 stevan_ joined #perl6
10:00 timotimo thank you for your business :)
10:00 hoelzro I'm happy to be helping =)
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10:36 dalek nqp: 5dbaa0a | (Rob Hoelz)++ | t/nqp/19-file-ops.t:
10:36 dalek nqp: Remove comment on a test I already wrote
10:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5dbaa0a62c
10:36 dalek nqp: 8637caf | (Rob Hoelz)++ | t/nqp/19-file-ops.t:
10:36 dalek nqp: Add test for nqp::symlink
10:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8637caf515
10:36 dalek nqp: a797a38 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
10:36 dalek nqp: Fix argument ordering for JVM symlink
10:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a797a38f88
10:36 dalek nqp: e64b18a | (Rob Hoelz)++ | t/nqp/19-file-ops.t:
10:36 dalek nqp: Skip symlink test on Parrot
10:36 dalek nqp:
10:36 dalek nqp: STAT_ISLNK is busted on Parrot
10:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e64b18a15c
10:36 dalek nqp: adbf3d7 | timo++ | / (2 files):
10:36 dalek nqp: Merge pull request #158 from hoelzro/op-symlink
10:36 dalek nqp:
10:36 dalek nqp: Add test for nqp::symlink and fix it on the JVM
10:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/adbf3d76c8
10:42 masak antenoon, #perl6
10:43 timotimo hey masak :)
10:47 masak ah hey hey
10:57 colomon \o
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11:21 jnthn afternoon, #perl6
11:24 masak jnthn! \o/
11:24 jnthn o/ masak
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11:46 moritz \o *
11:54 masak *, *
11:55 moritz m: say (*, *).perl
11:55 camelia rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«(*, *)␤»
11:55 moritz what you see is what you get!
11:58 masak whatever, whatever...
12:01 masak walk &
12:23 hoelzro is ufo a thing I should work on?
12:23 hoelzro or is panda or it's at?
12:24 hoelzro or are they just two separate things that have their own uses?
12:24 jnthn hoelzro: I've tended to see Panda as a tool for module consumers, who want to install modules, and ufo as a tool for module developers, who want a makefile for the module they're developing so they can pre-compile it
12:24 hoelzro jnthn: ok
12:25 hoelzro then I will continue to spend hackathon time on ufo =)
12:35 ribasushi what is a usual time to catch TimToady online?
12:36 hoelzro ribasushi: he was on at 15:00 a few days ago
12:36 hoelzro I think he's 9 hours behind us, though
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13:00 hoelzro what's the way to get an object's type in NQP land?
13:00 hoelzro nqp::gettype, or something?
13:00 hoelzro oh, nm
13:00 hoelzro nvm
13:00 hoelzro nqp::what
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13:29 hoelzro dalek is an instance of botnix, right?
13:31 dalek nqp: dcc6d47 | jnthn++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
13:31 dalek nqp: Bump to a MoarVM with many improvements.
13:31 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/dcc6d470dd
13:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 8e44bed | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
13:32 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump NQP to get many improvements.
13:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8e44bedbbe
13:34 colomon many improvements++
13:35 moritz and moarvm build is still <10s here \o/
13:36 jnthn r: say 13.0 % -4.0
13:36 camelia rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:36 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«-3␤»
13:36 jnthn r: say 13 % -4
13:36 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862, rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«-3␤»
13:38 jnthn r: say 13e0 % -4e0
13:38 camelia rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:38 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«-3␤»
13:38 tadzik and it seems to eat about 100 MB of ram (when doing nothing
13:40 * JimmyZ still can't build nqp on x86
13:45 dalek roast: 01ac512 | jnthn++ | S03-operators/arith.t:
13:45 dalek roast: Fix test plan.
13:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/01ac512435
13:48 jnthn r: say exp(-1, 2)
13:48 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
13:48 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:48 moritz JimmyZ: does nqp-m build fail for you, or the other backends too?
13:48 moritz r: say 2 ** -1
13:48 camelia rakudo-parrot e4e862, rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
13:48 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:49 JimmyZ moritz: I didn't try other backens
13:50 moritz moar is known to not work on 32 bit architectures
13:50 nwc10 nqp: say(2 ** -1)
13:50 camelia nqp-moarvm, nqp-jvm, nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
13:50 moritz I have the same problem on the raspberry pi
13:50 moritz which is a 32bit ARM
14:03 jnthn moritz: Is that a big endian platform?
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14:05 * jnthn spectests a couple of numerics fixes
14:13 * colomon is curious about what jnthn is up to
14:13 * colomon is also very stumped on his current $work issue
14:13 jnthn colomon: Just a little triage of r-m test failures
14:14 colomon jnthn++
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14:16 dalek roast: d6faf4f | jnthn++ | S03-operators/precedence.t:
14:16 dalek roast: Correct another plan.
14:16 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d6faf4f04c
14:16 jnthn .tell psch Please be a little more careful to update test plans.
14:16 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to psch.
14:24 hoelzro is there a way to detect the executable that Perl 6 is running as?
14:24 hoelzro I thought $?COMPILER would do the trick, but it's NYI, I think
14:25 FROGGS r: say $*EXECUTABLE_NAME
14:25 camelia rakudo-jvm e4e862: OUTPUT«perl6-j␤»
14:25 camelia ..rakudo-parrot e4e862: OUTPUT«./rakudo-inst/bin/perl6-p␤»
14:25 camelia ..rakudo-moar e4e862: OUTPUT«perl6-m␤»
14:25 hoelzro thanks FROGGS
14:30 colomon hmmm, seems like one of those answers doesn't fit?
14:30 colomon (one of these things is not like the others, I mean.)
14:47 rurban joined #perl6
14:50 rurban hoelzro:  FROGGS used to have a bad IRC connection all the time
14:50 FROGGS ?
14:50 FROGGS ahh
14:50 FROGGS no, I just switched the wifi AP
14:53 Rotwang joined #perl6
14:56 timotimo i'm running benchmark with the new rakudo-moar now
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15:12 nwc10 on x86 Linux 2 days ago I built Rakudo e4e8625db5b666edfb46b0c17762541ec6fa4bdb
15:12 nwc10 nqp bbb81a1b7c4900cd9f5c514be7787afbebdf0024
15:13 nwc10 and MoarVM 0f72429e5ddd0d5849cbca610f8850644d8800cb (which might be a non master commit)
15:13 nwc10 so any failure to build on 32 bit is recent
15:15 jnthn nwc10: I think it may be specific to x86 Windows.
15:15 nwc10 ah OK oops.
15:15 nwc10 I really can't help there then
15:19 masak is jnthn's talk anywhere here? http://video.fosdem.org/2014/
15:19 masak I don't know which room he was in.
15:20 hoelzro masak: it would be in http://video.fosdem.org/2014/K3201/Saturday/
15:20 hoelzro yeah, it's there
15:21 masak \o/
15:21 timotimo comparing all rakudos and nqps as well as the smallint-improved moarvm: http://t.h8.lv/p6bench/2014-02-08-smallint.html
15:22 timotimo erm
15:22 timotimo is it supposed to be much faster at native ints with smallint than with nonsmallint?
15:23 timotimo oh yay!
15:23 timotimo in for_empty and for_bind, moarvm is now faster than even rakudo-jvm until the very end
15:24 timotimo interesting. it's consistently *slower* with smallint when running trim_string
15:25 dalek nqp: 023533b | (Rob Hoelz)++ | t/nqp/19-file-ops.t:
15:25 dalek nqp: Skip symlink test on Windows
15:25 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/023533bc21
15:25 timotimo we're even a tiny bit faster at parse-json, though i'm willing to believe that's inaccurate measuring
15:26 timotimo jnthn:  ^^
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15:29 jnthn timotimo: Looking
15:30 timotimo jnthn: don't forget you can click on the names on the right side in the box to hide and show individual lines
15:31 timotimo unfortunately, zooming these graphs causes them to just get blurry >_>
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16:05 timotimo r: "\x1680\x180e\x2000\x2001\x2002\x20​03\x2004\x2005\x2006\x2007\x2008\x2​008\x2009\x200a\x202f\x205f\x3000" ~~ /\s+/
16:05 timotimo r: say "\x1680\x180e\x2000\x2001\x2002\x20​03\x2004\x2005\x2006\x2007\x2008\x2​008\x2009\x200a\x202f\x205f\x3000" ~~ /\s+/
16:05 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: ( no output )
16:05 camelia rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«「 」␤␤»
16:05 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be: OUTPUT«「 ᠎               」␤␤»
16:18 nwc10 HEAD/HEAD/HEAD works for me on x86 debian, so at least (some) 32 bit platforms are happy
16:24 berekuk joined #perl6
16:25 vendethiel p6: my @a = gather for ^10 { take 'a' => [ num => $_ ]; }; say @a.perl;
16:25 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«["a" => ["num" => 0], "a" => ["num" => 1], "a" => ["num" => 2], "a" => ["num" => 3], "a" => ["num" => 4], "a" => ["num" => 5], "a" => ["num" => 6], "a" => ["num" => 7], "a" => ["num" => 8], "a" => ["num" => 9]].list␤»
16:25 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«Array.new("a" => ["num" => 0], "a" => ["num" => 1], "a" => ["num" => 2], "a" => ["num" => 3], "a" => ["num" => 4], "a" => ["num" => 5], "a" => ["num" => 6], "a" => ["num" => 7], "a" => ["num" => 8], "a" => ["num" =>…»
16:26 vendethiel TimToady++
16:26 vendethiel I'd expect an array to not accept duplicate keys, however :p
16:26 thou joined #perl6
16:26 vendethiel p6: my @a = gather for ^10 { take 'a' => [ num => $_ ]; }; say @a<a>.perl;
16:26 jnthn That's an array of pairs.
16:26 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::AdHoc.new(payload => "postcircumfix:<\{ }> not defined for type Array"))␤»
16:26 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot use hash access on an object of type Array␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 359 (Any.at_key @ 9) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/tmpfile lin…»
16:27 molaf_ joined #perl6
16:27 jnthn I think you're confusing arrays and hashes.
16:27 vendethiel Oh, it's just hashes in arrays
16:27 vendethiel I'm used to having {} for hashes
16:29 jnthn No hashes, just pairs.
16:30 vendethiel noted
16:40 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: c6b76b9 | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
16:40 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: Simplify for code-gen on Moar to not keep results.
16:40 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c6b76b9398
16:40 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: 89dcd17 | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
16:40 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: Simplify loop code-gen on Moar.
16:40 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup:
16:40 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: Don't need to keep result type of block at this level; it's not what
16:40 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: NQP nor Rakudo need. Means we can convey more void context.
16:40 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/89dcd17bb2
16:42 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: 537cda9 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
16:42 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: Add eager and lazy statement prefixes.
16:42 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup:
16:42 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: For now, lazy does nothing, but it will mean we can write "lazy for
16:42 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: @x { ... }".
16:42 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/537cda96ef
16:42 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: 9749677 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/TypePretense.nqp:
16:42 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: Don't rely on unreliable return value.
16:42 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9749677dcf
16:51 hoelzro FROGGS: your openpipes impl is segfaulting for me ='(
16:51 ajr joined #perl6
16:51 FROGGS :o(
16:52 hoelzro I'll see what I can do
16:52 FROGGS hoelzro: can you try to debug it?
16:52 FROGGS I have not time atm to work on that
16:52 hoelzro yeah, I'm working on it
16:52 hoelzro just letting you know =)
16:54 hoelzro FROGGS: do you mind if I push a rebased version of your branch to github?
16:57 FROGGS hoelzro: go ahead
16:59 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: 7f18183 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
16:59 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: Make statement-level for @x { ... } always sink.
16:59 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7f1818314a
17:02 raydiak g'mornin #perl6
17:02 hoelzro morning raydiak
17:04 raydiak o/ hoelzro
17:08 jnthn o/ raydiak
17:10 raydiak morning jnthn - what sort of awesome-sauce are you cooking up today? :)
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17:11 jnthn raydiak: At the moment, working on trying to bring us in line with some spec changes to loops and context that TimToady++ did a couple of months ago that I never got around to getting in place yet
17:11 jnthn That should help avoid some accidental performance bugs.
17:11 jnthn Also improving loop code-gen a bit as a result.
17:12 raydiak \o/
17:17 dalek roast: 33597bd | jnthn++ | integration/99problems-11-to-20.t:
17:17 dalek roast: Update tests for spec'd statement-mod for.
17:17 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/33597bd30a
17:18 regreg joined #perl6
17:26 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: 2feef41 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
17:26 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: Bring statement-modifying for in line with spec.
17:26 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup:
17:26 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: It now sinks at statement level also.
17:26 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2feef412b1
17:26 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: 50e6fb9 | jnthn++ | src/core/List.pm:
17:26 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: Fix combinations implementation's use of for.
17:26 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/50e6fb9015
17:53 vendethiel what's the diff between `method a { ENTER $in = True; }` and `method a { $in = True; }` ?
17:54 jnthn The second has 6 less useless characters? :)
17:55 jnthn ENTER is only really intresting if you're planning to move the first action to do away from the first line, *or* you're doing it as a form of documentation to go with a LEAVE
17:56 vendethiel yeah, second one is why it's used in the advent2012
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18:17 japhb__ FWIW, re: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2014-02-07#i_8250119 and following, I would really like a "Don't tell me about Perl 5 stuff" pragma, however that looks.  Warnings, deprecations, errors, whatever.  When I'm programming Perl 6, I want to be able to do that without the compiler second-guessing me.  The current case is rather like talking to someone in Spanish and having them constantly tell me I need to rephrase because what I said sounded kinda like Fre
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18:23 japhb__ raydiak: I've been slowly working through the massive Math::ThreeD PR, and so far what I'm reading seems relatively sane.  But it occurs to me -- you have way more time and energy for this project than I, and you've probably written more lines of code by now (maybe way more, I haven't checked).  Do you just want to take over the project?
18:26 timotimo japhb__: the reason why i was against making $^A and friends work with no warnings :p5 is that it's not a warning :P
18:26 timotimo so it'd still error out
18:27 raydiak japhb__: the reason I apologized for "taking the liberty" is I am not sure if there is one single line of your original code left :) I'd be happy to take it over, though I do hope you'll still contribute and advise as time allows
18:29 lue timotimo:  use v6 :no-v5  or something like that, perhaps?
18:29 timotimo hmm. maybe.
18:30 lue .oO( use v6; no transition; ...)
18:31 lue In any case, P6.1 will have the P5 stuff off by default, if it's still around :)
18:31 raydiak japhb__: btw (in case you still intend to finish looking it over) there is a problem with the matrix code, so when you notice it using subscripts wrong and blowing mat44 up to 16x4, it's a known issue and will be fixed today or tomorrow
18:32 japhb__ raydiak: No worries.  Consider your fork to be the main repo then.  When it's ready, you can register it in the ecosystem as such.  :-)
18:33 japhb__ If the time comes that I can contribute something useful again, I'll send you a PR.  ;-)
18:34 timotimo japhb__: would you like to discuss perl6-bench subversioning again?
18:35 japhb__ OK.
18:35 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/301073744c9555c79064 - i've reworked my gist slightly
18:35 timotimo the main problem i see is that there's no sane way to get default values after having done the clone
18:35 timotimo so i'm thinking of just omitting the default values from the names of the components completely
18:37 raydiak japhb__: I'll update meta.info accordingly, then; I look forward to your possible future reveng...uh, PR :)
18:38 japhb__ raydiak: heh
18:39 japhb__ timotimo: Your current proposal isn't perfect, but I think it's good enough.  Would you mind doing the work in a branch first?
18:40 japhb__ Was anyone else waiting on an answer from me on anything?
18:40 * japhb__ is trying to clear his queues
18:42 timotimo that would be okay
18:42 japhb__ timotimo: thanks
18:44 timotimo japhb__: what's your immediate trouble with it?
18:45 japhb__ timotimo: I apologize if my wording sounded harsher than I intended.  I meant "Something feels a little hackish here, but I can't immediately see a significant improvement, so I guess I'll just let it simmer in my subconscious for a while."
18:46 japhb__ "... meanwhile, might as well do an implementation and see if any issues pop up."
18:46 timotimo haha.
18:47 timotimo that's okay
18:51 Rotwang joined #perl6
18:52 raydiak japhb__: everything going okay for you? just doing a little pre-spring cleaning?
18:55 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: fc28f76 | jnthn++ | src/NQP/Optimizer.nqp:
18:55 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: Better NQPcode-gen for $int_a < $int_b and similar
18:55 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fc28f762ce
19:03 timotimo i asked a friend to fix the audio track of jnthn's talk to make it more bearable
19:09 jnthn .oO( I'm getting auto-tuned? :) )
19:17 timotimo hah, not quite
19:17 timotimo all that needed done was get the *terrible* buzzing down a bit
19:17 timotimo and there was no miracles to be had, so in parts you'll still hear remnants of the buzzing and nothing of your voice
19:18 benabik ++(timotimo's friend)
19:19 timotimo i'm now asking the #fosdem-video people how i get my data to them
19:22 timotimo i'm just uploading the file to my own web space now and maybe the fosdem video people will get it
19:27 raydiak you can't just put the words back in with the "filter, enhance, and reconstruct" button like the TV showed me? :)
19:30 timotimo :)
19:31 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: 71f135f | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/control.pm:
19:31 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: pass a decontainerized list to nqp::spawn
19:31 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/71f135f4f8
19:36 raydiak sorry, my g/f watches a show called "Bones" that drives me nuts every time they show a computer doing...anything
19:37 geekosaur apparently "Bones" pisses off anypne who knows anything about any subject it touches on
19:38 raydiak one of the recent episodes we watched they were trying to build a case against a murderer/hacker who crashed their computers with an *image* of a fractal
19:39 raydiak methinks the personal interactions are the only point of the show
19:39 timotimo hah
19:40 raydiak oh yeah, and he was spreading viruses to the internet by swapping RFID tags in the books he checked out from the library
19:41 raydiak it was almost painful, I had to pull out my laptop and do something less brain-cell-melty
19:41 geekosaur aaand now I am remembering a short story about the consequences of someone discovering a Gödel trap for the human visual system (with about the same level of topical accuracy; they claim it caused insanity, instead of simply not being recognized)
19:42 timotimo m)
19:43 raydiak it sounds like they had some degree of experience with insanity...
19:47 timotimo 90% uploaded
19:57 berekuk joined #perl6
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20:02 Rotwang joined #perl6
20:02 lue I'm not wrong in thinking Nil is /not/ a type, right?
20:05 rurban joined #perl6
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20:05 timotimo r: class Foobar is Nil {}; say Foobar.new();
20:05 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
20:06 timotimo r: class Foobar is Nil {}; say Foobar.^mro;
20:06 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«Nil Nil (Iterator) (Iterable) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
20:11 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: 042fd4c | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTCompilerMAST.nqp:
20:11 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: Better convey immediate block void context.
20:11 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/042fd4cdac
20:11 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: 0a9dbae | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
20:11 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: Remove sink forcing; rely on improved code-gen.
20:11 dalek rakudo/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0a9dbae3ea
20:12 timotimo http://t.h8.lv/Perl_6_what_can​_you_do_today_fixed_audio.webm ← mildly less ear-destroying buzzing
20:14 berekuk joined #perl6
20:35 masak timotimo++
20:43 lue r: say q<<alive»
20:43 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Couldn't find terminator >>â�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32msay q<<alive»[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument list…»
20:44 lue << is supposed to be texas «, no?
20:46 colomon has to be texas and texas, or not texas and texas -- they come in pairs
20:46 colomon not texas and not texas
20:46 colomon you can't mix texas and non-texas, is what I'm incompetently trying to say.
20:47 timotimo that'd be my understanding, too
20:47 lue If I can't mingle <<» / «>>, then what's the point of saying you can use the texas version of «/» with bracketing things like Q and #`
20:47 timotimo std: say q<<alive»
20:47 kaare_ joined #perl6
20:47 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Couldn't find terminator >> at /tmp/4rpZu92AJI line 1 (EOF):�------> [32msay q<<alive»[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 121m�»
20:48 colomon lue: I fail to see the contradiction there?
20:48 lue r: say (1,2,3) <<+» (4,5,6)
20:48 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Missing << or >>â�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32msay (1,2,3) <<+[33mâ��[31m» (4,5,6)[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        â€¦Â»
20:49 colomon r: say q<<alive>>
20:49 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«alive␤»
20:49 lue colomon: why waste the effort to say "doubling < is actually texas «, not two <" in contexts where they might as well be seen as a doubled-up < ?
20:50 colomon r: say q((alive))
20:50 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared routines:â�¤    alive used at line 1â�¤    q used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
20:50 colomon std: say q((alive))
20:50 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Undeclared routines:â�¤        'alive' used at line 1â�¤ 'q' used at line 1â�¤Check failedâ�¤FAILED 00:01 126mâ�¤Â»
20:50 lue colomon: don't use parens
20:50 lue std: say q[[alive]]
20:50 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
20:51 colomon std: say q{{alive}}
20:51 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
20:51 colomon r: say q{{alive}}
20:51 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«alive␤»
20:51 FROGGS r: say q「「alive」」
20:51 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«alive␤»
20:52 colomon guess there's no point in saying that in that context.
20:52 colomon r: say q<<<alive>>>
20:52 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«alive␤»
20:52 colomon r: say q<<<ali>ve>>>
20:52 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«ali>ve␤»
20:52 colomon r: say q<<<ali>>ve>>>
20:52 camelia rakudo-parrot 8e44be, rakudo-jvm 8e44be, rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«ali>>ve␤»
20:53 colomon hmmm, guess that is very mildly potentially useful
20:53 lue http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02​.html#User-selected_Brackets  <--  I think this is what I remember as talking about <<>>
20:53 TimToady lue: translating << to « in the input stream would the be sort of lying to itself that P5 does, and P6 doesn't
20:54 colomon lue: I think you're reading it backwards?
20:54 TimToady we just treat <<>> and «» the same in some circumstances
20:54 lue colomon: yeah, I just realized I may have misparsed that the whole time :P
20:54 TimToady but they are very much distinct delimiters
20:54 colomon "Only #` and the q-style quoters (including m, s, tr, and rx) enable subsequent user-selected brackets."
20:54 colomon that's when it's NOT texas style.
20:55 TimToady in those cases it double angles have no particular meaning
20:55 colomon rgh
20:55 colomon right
20:55 lue std: say (1,2,3) «+>> (4,5,6)
20:55 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Missing « or » at /tmp/Ar2VbD02hW line 1:â�¤------> [32msay (1,2,3) «+[33mâ��[31m>> (4,5,6)[0mâ�¤    expecting infix_circumfix_meta_operatorâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:01 126mâ�¤Â»
20:56 TimToady the desire for that to work smacks of multi-pass parsing
20:57 colomon it's wildly ugly anyway.  ;)
20:57 TimToady it would simply be wrong to support it, in any case
20:57 lue Of course, but I imagine someone at some point would think it'd work ("after all, << and «, >> and » are equivalent!") ☺
20:58 TimToady people think the darndest things...
20:58 lue The best solution is to avoid this whole mess and get rid of << >>, though I suspect it wouldn't be a well-received solution :P
20:58 colomon Note that the spec lue cited specifically refers to << … >> as a single construct.
20:59 colomon lue++ # thinking about the details
20:59 lue std: say (1,2,3)».foo>>.bar  # this is what led me to believe «+>> would work
20:59 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 126m␤»
20:59 * moritz doesn't see the connection
21:00 * geekosaur doesn't either
21:00 moritz after all (1,2,3)».foo>>.bar isn't a single hyper call
21:00 lue moritz: hyperop-y things
21:00 moritz it's two chained, hyper-y calls
21:00 geekosaur ^
21:00 geekosaur they may often be used together but they don't have to be paired
21:00 moritz just like you *can* use both <<..>> and «...» in the same expression
21:01 moritz m: say <<a b c>> Z~ «x d v»
21:01 camelia rakudo-moar 8e44be: OUTPUT«ax bd cv␤»
21:01 lue "If I can mix styles with two uses of hyper, then why not both sides of one hyper?"  is what I was thinking
21:01 TimToady hyper infixes are required to match in Texasness
21:01 * lue still wonders where the heck ‹ › is in all this...
21:01 TimToady quick, let's give a meaning to *all* the characters
21:02 moritz there's only a few 10k of 'em
21:03 lue ‹cooler word lists, naturally›  :)
21:04 lue not having to parse pairs of < and > as «/» makes finding matching bracket pairs easier, at least.
21:04 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: ce92c5b | jnthn++ | src/NQP/Optimizer.nqp:
21:04 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: Unbust build on JVM.
21:04 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ce92c5b593
21:05 geekosaur ␁does this count too?␄
21:07 * raydiak is not sure if the wisest response is to flee, or start crafting a p6 font
21:07 geekosaur flee, definitely :p
21:07 TimToady the two are not mutually exclusive
21:07 lue raydiak: no font format can support all of unicode in one file, so you have to flee :(
21:08 TimToady it didn't say "all", it said "start"  :P
21:09 lue It wouldn't be so much of an issue if font files entertained more/any inter-file interactions, e.g. "attach this part of the diacritic from file1 to this part of the base letter from file2"
21:09 raydiak guess it's "go into hiding and create a new font format and rendering system", then :)
21:10 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: 19fd1dc | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/terms.pm:
21:10 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: use "perl6-m.bat" on win32 for use in run()
21:10 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/19fd1dcfd1
21:10 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: 106ea20 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
21:10 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: Simplify JVM for loop code-gen.
21:10 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/106ea20dc9
21:10 lue I think the inertia on making fonts unicode-friendly like I want is that "nobody would need a font that supports *every* character, right?"
21:11 * geekosaur sure wants one that supports more than his currently does (but that's limited more by client bugs, better fonts than he has do exist)
21:12 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: 8e44bed | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
21:12 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: Bump NQP to get many improvements.
21:12 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8e44bedbbe
21:12 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: a5eb73b | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
21:12 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into wip-openpipe
21:12 dalek rakudo/wip-openpipe: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a5eb73b445
21:12 raydiak I've been amazed at some of the font limitations I've run into as I started working with unicode
21:12 lue I wonder if OTF would be receptive to some sort of "chaining" of files together, for those inter-file interactions that can sometimes be very useful.
21:14 raydiak (the linux console is one of the most astounding disappointments)
21:14 lue the linux console is very old :P
21:15 raydiak conceded, but it's not like it couldn't be modernized (albeit with perhaps large amounts of effort)
21:15 raydiak cooking &
21:16 timotimo raydiak: there's something in the works that'll do very well, based on kms. i think it's actually called "kmscon"
21:16 * lue investigates kmscon
21:16 timotimo last commit 3 months ago :\
21:16 timotimo last time i tried to get it working didn't pan out so well unfortunately
21:18 timotimo it would be cool if it supported 256 colors or even 24 bit colors
21:21 bjz_ joined #perl6
21:23 raydiak fg
21:23 rindolf joined #perl6
21:23 geekosaur bg
21:23 timotimo http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~dvdhrm/kmscon/ ← apparently this is where development happens now
21:24 timotimo at least the github repo is referred to as "old github repository"
21:24 raydiak oh good, someone is working on it...I had to imagine I wasn't the only one left in the world who still uses the actual console outside a gui
21:25 bjz joined #perl6
21:33 rurban joined #perl6
21:36 raydiak somewhat OT, but what precisely does it mean when someone puts & at the end of their statement in chat? I'm familiar with the behavior in the shell, but they usually put it after a statement about what they are doing in their foreground while they are not chatting, which makes me wonder if the proper corresponding "back" message is fg or bg
21:37 jnthn raydiak: Typically it implies, "I'm going away for a bit now"
21:38 raydiak am I reading too much into the metaphor? seems like ^z might be more suitable
21:39 raydiak and then fg for back, just like the real workflow
21:40 * lue --load-explanation='&' &  # :)
21:40 raydiak haha :)
21:41 geekosaur but ^Z stops it, whereas you can read backscroll when you come back because the chat is still active while you're away
21:41 raydiak ah true
21:41 geekosaur (let us run this odd metaphore straight into the ground...)
21:41 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: 82cd0cb | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
21:41 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: First part of simplifying JVM loop code-gen.
21:41 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup:
21:41 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: Gets rid of some decision making and, potentially, an instruction or
21:41 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: two per iteration and/or some boxing.
21:41 dalek nqp/loop-cleanup: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/82cd0cb4b1
21:41 geekosaur *metaphor
21:42 lue raydiak: more seriously, the problem is, is that ^Z can be caught and handled differently by the program. & can't.
21:42 raydiak ^zbg^m is so much more clear, though (sarcasm)
21:45 raydiak I guess the hangup for me is that & only applies when starting the process that you want to be in the background, as opposed to a process which is already running
21:49 raydiak as in "good morning & shower" might make sense (but reads a little creepily if you read & as "and")
21:50 lue raydiak:  there's your ^Z :)
21:51 lue raydiak: if you read the /me as a command on the commandline, with the nick as the program name, it'll be easier to get over :)
21:51 raydiak oh, I get it now!
21:51 rurban1 joined #perl6
21:52 raydiak thank you, I was sure it was something like that I wasn't seeing
21:52 dayangkun joined #perl6
21:53 raydiak I lurked here for a year or two before I broke down and finally asked what all the "\o" meant...went looking all over for suitable meanings of \o as an escape sequence or something :P
21:54 raydiak anyway, I'll stop filling the serene silence with chaotic confusion for now :)
21:54 moritz please continue :-)
21:57 raydiak heh...that may be the first time in my life anyone has been bold/foolish enough to say that to me
21:59 timotimo libtsm sounds like a nifty thing to have, it implements a virtual terminal state machine
22:00 timotimo This is why the TERM variable can be set to xterm-color256 with any TSM based terminal emulator. ← pretty nice
22:03 dalek nqp: c6b76b9 | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
22:03 dalek nqp: Simplify for code-gen on Moar to not keep results.
22:03 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c6b76b9398
22:03 dalek nqp: 89dcd17 | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
22:03 dalek nqp: Simplify loop code-gen on Moar.
22:03 dalek nqp:
22:03 dalek nqp: Don't need to keep result type of block at this level; it's not what
22:03 dalek nqp: NQP nor Rakudo need. Means we can convey more void context.
22:03 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/89dcd17bb2
22:03 dalek nqp: fc28f76 | jnthn++ | src/NQP/Optimizer.nqp:
22:03 dalek nqp: Better NQPcode-gen for $int_a < $int_b and similar
22:03 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fc28f762ce
22:03 dalek nqp: 042fd4c | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTCompilerMAST.nqp:
22:03 dalek nqp: Better convey immediate block void context.
22:03 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/042fd4cdac
22:03 dalek nqp: ce92c5b | jnthn++ | src/NQP/Optimizer.nqp:
22:03 dalek nqp: Unbust build on JVM.
22:03 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ce92c5b593
22:03 dalek nqp: 106ea20 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
22:03 dalek nqp: Simplify JVM for loop code-gen.
22:03 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/106ea20dc9
22:03 dalek nqp: 82cd0cb | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
22:03 dalek nqp: First part of simplifying JVM loop code-gen.
22:03 dalek nqp:
22:03 dalek nqp: Gets rid of some decision making and, potentially, an instruction or
22:03 dalek nqp: two per iteration and/or some boxing.
22:03 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/82cd0cb4b1
22:03 timotimo oh wow.
22:03 timotimo that sounds great
22:04 raydiak is that related to 'for' being so much slower than 'loop' in some cases?
22:04 jnthn Yeah
22:04 jnthn Well
22:04 jnthn The upcoming Rakuod patch also is.
22:05 raydiak then I stand by my prior statement on the matter: \o/
22:05 timotimo if it wouldn't take 3.5h, i'd totally do a full benchmark run again >_>
22:06 jnthn raydiak: I'm also working on brining the bind lowering stuff on Moar to the JVM too :)
22:06 jnthn raydiak: Which should give a performance boost.
22:06 timotimo quite.
22:06 colomon ooo, brining!
22:07 * colomon must be nearing nom-time
22:07 raydiak jnthn: I'm not sure what "the bind lowering stuff" does...what will that make faster?
22:09 jnthn raydiak: In theory, signature binding.
22:09 vendethiel couldn't you use the github notifs bot instead of daaaaalek ?
22:09 vendethiel IIRC, it's a bit more terse and doesn't get banned :P
22:10 raydiak jnthn: ah, so passing/calling faster? that'd be great!
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 537cda9 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Add eager and lazy statement prefixes.
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: For now, lazy does nothing, but it will mean we can write "lazy for
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: @x { ... }".
22:10 jnthn raydiak: yeah
22:10 raydiak jnthn++ # I'm sure you don't have enough karma points yet :)
22:11 dalek joined #perl6
22:13 vendethiel .karma++ for $chan.members
22:13 Alina-malina joined #perl6
22:14 lue vendethiel: OUR CURRENT SYSTEMS ADEQUATELY INTERFACE WITH THE WEBSITE, AND MEET ALL OUR REQUIREMENTS SATISFACTORILY.
22:14 vendethiel sir yes sir ! :D
22:14 Alina-malina joined #perl6
22:20 stevan_ joined #perl6
22:24 lue Bleh, I imagine at some point my p6-mode.el is going to be 10% major mode, and 90% elisp port of perl6/std :P
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 71a7a35 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/IO.pm:
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: use openpipe on moar
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/71a7a3554d
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 4a95565 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/control.pm:
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: pass a decontainerized list to nqp::spawn
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4a95565309
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 2c23914 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/terms.pm:
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: use "perl6-m.bat" on win32 for use in run()
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2c23914c08
22:25 jnthn FROGGS: Guess you're gonna need some revision bumps too? :)
22:27 FROGGS sure, will do in a sec
22:28 timotimo jnthn: at some point i may want to re-do the "turn lexicals to locals" work and this time include locallifetime ops, too. does that sound like a good win?
22:28 timotimo it seems to me the register allocator just gives out as many registers as it likes on both parrot and moarvm anyway
22:28 jnthn timotimo: It's worth doing locallifetime on other backends...
22:28 dalek nqp: aeaec98 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
22:29 dalek nqp: bump rev for openpipe() and other fixes
22:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/aeaec9827e
22:29 timotimo and it's probably also worth implementing locallifetime on moar :)
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: 1436d8d | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: bump rev for openpipe() and other fixes
22:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1436d8deed
22:34 jnthn timotimo: I'd been pondering taking a look at the lexical => local thing also...I think it'll be best done with a little extra infrastructure in the QAST::Var local handling...
22:35 timotimo sounds like a good idea. let me know if you need me to turn a few ideas into a prototype or something :)
22:40 timotimo i got a bit disappointed when my first implementation of lexical->local in nqp didn't give any measurable difference in any of our benchmarks
22:40 timotimo but that may have been because i didn't emit locallifetime ops to go with the changed variables
22:41 jnthn Maybe, but also the NQP optimizer should really learn to flatten away blocks too, when lexical -> local allows it.
22:41 jnthn It's more of an enabling optimization...
22:42 timotimo ah, flattening out blocks
22:42 timotimo yeah, that does seem helpful
22:42 timotimo it's not going to be a straight copy&paste from rakudo's inliner, is it? :)
22:42 jnthn No :)
22:42 jnthn It can be a lot simpler in NQP I think.
22:42 timotimo that's quite a consolation
22:42 jnthn The other thing we probably want to then do is turn return into leave...
22:42 jnthn We may already be able to do that in some places.
22:43 timotimo didn't we get that optimization recently?
22:43 timotimo or was that only for rakudo?
22:43 jnthn Only for Rakudo and only for end of block, iirc
22:43 timotimo ah, ok
22:44 timotimo so the difference would be that it would also work for middle-of-block returns, and could be turned into a regular goto, but would have to not be done if there's a CONTROL block?
22:44 timotimo similarly, the current optimization is also not allowed to run if there's a CONTROL block nearby
22:44 jnthn Something like...
22:46 timotimo hm. another thing: i really kind of wish the peephole optimizer could be prototyped in a HLL, perhaps even NQP
22:46 timotimo does that seem feasible?
22:47 timotimo i seem to recall the actual MAST -> mbc stuff happens in C land
22:48 jnthn It does, but there's no reason you can't do the peephole on the MAST
22:48 timotimo ah, the MAST is similarly flat, isn't it?
22:48 jnthn yeah, fairly flat
22:48 timotimo sounds good, then.
22:49 timotimo could someone mention that on http://wiki.enlightenedperl.org/gsoc2014/ideas? that the peephole optimizer could be written in NQP instead of C and operate on the MAST rather than the plain moarvm bytecode?
22:51 timotimo also, somehow the link to Google-at-Home ended up in the rakudo section on Allomorphic Types
22:52 jnthn timotimo: I'm not sure if the peephole thing is a good GSoC task...
22:52 timotimo in that case, could somebody remove it? :P
22:54 rurban joined #perl6
22:55 timotimo kicked off my benchmark run
23:05 kivutar joined #perl6
23:09 Khisanth joined #perl6
23:14 * timotimo dreams of having a kick-ass terminal UI library for perl6
23:14 timotimo maybe i should get started designing.
23:16 timotimo it could be called "catui", as in "Kick Ass Terminal User Interface"
23:16 timotimo well, kiCk Ass Terminal User Interface, really
23:17 jnthn .oO( Can't imagine which animal this one gets as a mascot... )
23:18 raydiak I don't think cats and butterflies play nicely together...
23:18 dalek nqp/jvmbl: f0c299b | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (2 files):
23:18 dalek nqp/jvmbl: Some preparations to support bind lowering on JVM.
23:18 dalek nqp/jvmbl: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f0c299b102
23:18 dalek nqp/jvmbl: 30b18e3 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
23:18 dalek nqp/jvmbl: Tweak custom args handling for bind lowering.
23:18 dalek nqp/jvmbl: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/30b18e346c
23:18 timotimo http://img2.mlstatic.com/catui-l​p-vinil_MLB-O-182164532_527.jpg ← this guy
23:20 timotimo i'd love to borrow heavily from the way Qt does things
23:22 lue timotimo: hopefully not the magic custom preprocessor part though :/
23:25 timotimo nah, that's not necessary for our purposes
23:34 stevan_ joined #perl6
23:35 timotimo by binding libtsm i could conceivably handle embedding any terminal application whatsoever inside a catui program
23:35 timotimo that would be pretty neat
23:36 araujo joined #perl6
23:38 colomon joined #perl6
23:40 btyler joined #perl6
23:44 raydiak hmmm...is the next screen/tmux-killer written in p6? :)
23:45 timotimo not necessary, tmux is already almost perfect :)
23:45 timotimo i don't mind screen disappearing, though.
23:47 raydiak I don't even know why I never liked screen, as I barely gave it a chance, but I just went without such things until I discovered tmux
23:48 raydiak .oO( maybe it's that pleasing default green border that won me over )
23:49 lue I presently just use more tabs on the terminal emulator :P
23:50 timotimo i heard from a friend that there is a terminal emulator for osx that interfaces directly with tmux or something
23:50 hoelzro timotimo: iTerm2
23:50 hoelzro and I think that claim is exaggerated
23:51 timotimo hmm, maybe?
23:51 timotimo i might be misremembering, too.
23:58 timotimo i'll have benchmarks, soon :3

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