Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-02-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 timotimo ./bench time rakudo-jvm/46234b5  12621,67s user 252,31s system 175% cpu 2:02:10,22 total
00:02 timotimo 2 hours, seriously? >_>
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00:06 timotimo i guess that's just because the jvm can go up so high in its counts and gets the startup time added each time >_<
00:08 timotimo yeah, it's at like 4 seconds startup time per data point, run each data point twice for minimally more precise measurements, go up a whole bunch of steps before aborting
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00:25 timotimo (did i mention the 10 runs it does at the beginning at 0 scale to figure out the compile- and startuptime?
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00:25 timotimo those add a whooping 40 to 45 seconds for each of the 44 tests)
00:25 timotimo p: say (40 * 44) / 60
00:25 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b: OUTPUT«29.333333␤»
00:25 timotimo that alone is *half* an *hour*
00:25 timotimo whoa.
00:26 timotimo p: say (45 * 44) / 60 # this is closer to it
00:26 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b: OUTPUT«33␤»
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00:38 dalek roast: f86c971 | (Pepe Schwarz)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
00:38 dalek roast: Adjusted a few tests that declare a class to do so lexically.
00:38 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f86c971476
00:39 psch 9 failing tests on nom in that file now!
00:39 psch one of those is really easy to get passing too!
00:40 psch that's why it's 8 failing tests on my refactor heh
00:40 psch https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp#L586 # :method needs a '!' in the beginning
00:40 psch but that's obviously not urgent in any way
00:41 timotimo huh?
00:41 timotimo that's weird to me
00:41 psch timotimo: the value
00:41 timotimo :!method($name)?
00:41 psch :method("!" ~ $name)
00:41 timotimo oh
00:41 psch to have a textual representation for private
00:41 timotimo okay, fair enough
00:41 timotimo want me to quickly put it in?
00:41 psch i don't mind either way; it's in my refactor, if you have some time to spare i'd rather you look over that
00:42 timotimo i don't quite understand why you had to put the "my" in there, though
00:42 psch the previous ways failed with "Redeclaration of symbol A"
00:42 psch there's a few 'class A' tests in the file
00:42 timotimo oh
00:43 psch i'd have thought throws_like has it's own scope, but it works like this and doesn't otherwise...
00:43 psch maybe that should get filed as a bug against Test.pm
00:43 timotimo but always inside a throws_like, eh?
00:43 timotimo i kind of don't think those should even collide
00:44 psch i agree, intuitively they definitely shouldn't
00:44 psch *filed against Test::Util rather
00:45 psch although i'm not sure if that's to blame here
00:45 timotimo it just EVALs it :\
00:45 timotimo r: EVAL "class Barf {}"; EVAL "class Barf {}";
00:45 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling eval_0â�¤Unable to parse class definitionâ�¤at eval_0:1â�¤------> [32mclass Barf [33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤      â€¦Â»
00:46 timotimo oh, hehe
00:46 timotimo r: EVAL 'class Barf {}'; EVAL 'class Barf {}';
00:46 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling eval_1â�¤Redeclaration of symbol Barfâ�¤at eval_1:1â�¤------> [32mclass Barf [33mâ��[31m{}[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        prefi…»
00:46 timotimo r: EVAL 'class Barf {}'; say ::.keys();
00:46 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«$! $/ $_ GLOBALish EXPORT $?PACKAGE ::?PACKAGE $=pod !UNIT_MARKER␤»
00:46 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 46234b: OUTPUT«::?PACKAGE $! GLOBALish EXPORT !UNIT_MARKER $=pod $_ $/ $?PACKAGE␤»
00:46 timotimo hmm. class declarations are our-scoped by default, eh?
00:48 psch according to S12, yes
00:48 timotimo so i guess it would be correct to require a "my" there?
00:49 psch that's my understanding, yes
00:49 psch at least if the class(es) aren't used over multiple tests, although those should probably be grouped in a block
00:50 timotimo wouldn't the our scope go past even a block?
00:50 timotimo r: { EVAL 'class Barf {}';}; {EVAL 'class Barf {}';}
00:50 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling eval_1â�¤Redeclaration of symbol Barfâ�¤at eval_1:1â�¤------> [32mclass Barf [33mâ��[31m{}[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        prefi…»
00:50 psch right, it does because we're still in GLOBAL
00:50 timotimo i wonder why we don't get colors from camelia any more
00:50 psch i have colors?
00:50 timotimo oh, huh?
00:50 psch didn't you mess around with 24bit fonts or something?
00:50 timotimo OUTPUT«?31m===?0mSORRY!?31m=== ← this is what i see
00:50 timotimo no, i didn't :)
00:51 psch i thought i read something in the clog, but i must've been wrong
00:51 timotimo ,02heyo
00:51 timotimo i see those colors
00:52 geekosaur I barely see yours...
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00:52 skids Yeah, I've never seen colors from camelia in xchat-gnome, despite having "show colors" on.  But I saw that.
00:52 geekosaur odd
00:52 geekosaur oh, no it's not
00:52 timotimo huh?
00:53 geekosaur I have a script
00:53 timotimo oh, do you? :)
00:53 timotimo i believe i used to see color back when i was using irssi
00:53 psch i'm running stock irssi
00:54 geekosaur http://lpaste.net/99716
00:54 timotimo huh.
00:55 timotimo i was convinced, camelia had something that turns ansi escape code colors into irc colors
00:56 skids Is the color system well modularized?
00:56 timotimo the color system of what?
00:57 skids of rakudo.
00:57 skids (or nqp)
00:57 timotimo that's just Term::ANSIColor
00:57 skids wherever it is done.
00:58 psch coloring of exceptions is hardcoded in src/core/Exception.pm in gist()
00:58 psch that is X::Comp::Exception.gist()
00:59 psch err, almost
00:59 psch role X::Comp is Exception... :)
00:59 timotimo oh, indeed
00:59 timotimo that's not super cool.
01:00 timotimo did you know that Pod::To::Text can do ansi coloring and formatting if you ask nicely? :3
01:00 skids Well I imangine you want exceptions working well before you're ready to load Term::ANSIcolor
01:00 timotimo POD_TO_TEXT_ANSI=1 perl6 --doc=Text Foo.pm
01:00 timotimo true indeed
01:01 * psch .oO( so ask nicely means in all-caps... )
01:01 timotimo :)
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01:01 geekosaur just means it's in the environment and following convention :p
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01:05 psch geekosaur: i realize that, i guess i'm getting a bit silly because it's late
01:05 lue timotimo: camelia has never used IRC colors.
01:06 timotimo weird!
01:06 timotimo irssi must have that ansi color stuff baked in or it just passes it straight on through
01:06 lue there must be some ANSI color setting that got turned off in your client if you're not seeing it colored any more.
01:06 lue r: say "\e"
01:06 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«�»
01:07 geekosaur lue: xchat doesn't do ANSI color
01:07 lue timotimo: irssi is the terminal thing, right? Then it gets the literal escape char followed by [ <colors> m
01:07 timotimo well, i went from irssi to weechat
01:07 lue and the terminal knows that combination of characters as ANSI coloring :)
01:07 geekosaur some of us have scripts that rewrite ANSI color onto mIRC color. ircii I wouldn't know about
01:07 timotimo https://gitorious.org/irker/drnlms-irker/commit/5e785069fbf632e8d5694affc5e4298d9d3c52f3 - when searching for weechat + ansi %)
01:07 geekosaur but not uncommon for curses stuff to strip control chars
01:08 geekosaur since curses does not render them
01:08 lue timotimo: either irssi didn't strip escape chars before passing to the terminal, or it handled them for you.
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01:08 psch irssi does what termcap/terminfo say the terminal can do according to their faq
01:09 psch which in this case probably means "pass through"
01:11 psch but then the faq actually says "handles colors", so i shouldn't just say things like that
01:11 geekosaur yes, for one thing no terminal speaks mIRC colors directly that I'm aware of
01:11 timotimo heh.
01:12 psch timotimo: in case want it, the pre-commit hook now lives here and is a bit smarter about the cwd -> https://github.com/peschwa/roast_hooks/blob/master/pre-commit
01:12 psch oh but i forgot to push the a fix
01:12 psch actually, the trailing-/-fix
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01:52 psch ...and now it also just fixes the plan, because why would anyone want to do that manually?
01:58 colomon psch: might be dangerous for some of the weirder test files?
01:59 * colomon hates doing it manually too
02:01 psch colomon: i'm parsing Test.pm output
02:01 psch but the replace might be bad
02:02 psch yeah, the condition for the replace is bogus right now
02:03 psch curiously it worked in a test-run right now
02:05 colomon it used to be the case that some files didn't have plans
02:05 psch well if there's no plan then there's no complaint from Test.pm that there's a bad plan
02:05 psch cases like S32-exceptions/misc.t just have a "done;" at the end
02:06 psch those don't emit "Bad plan. Looks like you planned \d+ tests but ran \d+." message
02:06 psch that's the line i'm parsing after running the test to get the right number for the plan
02:07 colomon gotcha
02:07 colomon there were a couple files I remember running into that had really weird crap going on.  But it might still work for you.
02:08 colomon also, of course, there's the danger that the something is actually wrong with the test, and that's why the plan isn't right.
02:08 psch right, that's another case i've missed
02:09 psch although i gotta check if i get "Bad plan" if a testfile dies inbetween
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03:04 psch the weird case i'm not sure how to handle is "we ran as many tests as we planned but still died for some reason"
03:04 psch i'm not sure i agree with how Test.pm handles that case, it reports everything as ok and PASS, but a die() for whatever reason is at least something to be suspicious about, isn't it
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03:17 * skids sorry to bump in and out so much; fighting with trying to get gtkrc to set pidgin's colors.
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03:30 psch well, my hook is now pretty conservative about what stays staged, i'll just run it for some time and see how well it works
03:31 psch i guess that means it's time add many more tests to roast heh
03:31 psch anyway, good night #perl6 o/
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07:52 eiro hello #perl6
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08:21 raydiak wow, I'm back...nothing quite so fun as losing most of a day to a flaky VPS :P hope it still works when I try to get today's work done tomorrow; at least #perl6 was largely spared my insanity today :) good morning and good night, all
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09:03 timotimo °\
09:04 mathw o/
09:14 moritz _o/
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09:15 FROGGS
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09:20 grondilu rn: sub f($a, $b, $c) { $a + 2*$b + 3*$c }; my &g = &f.assuming(1, *, 2); say g(4);
09:20 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 3␤  in sub f at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in sub CURRIED at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3040␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
09:20 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 46234b: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 3␤  in sub f at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in sub CURRIED at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:3044␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
09:20 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to f, used 3 of 4 positionals␤  at /tmp/tmpfile line 0 (f @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1166 (ANON @ 6) ␤  at /tmp/tmpfile line 1 (mainline @ 6) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.se…»
09:20 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 46234b: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 3␤  in sub f at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in sub CURRIED at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:3040␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
09:27 timotimo hm, could very well be that the whatever case of assuming is NYI
09:27 timotimo i wonder if that counts as an LHF
09:28 Timbus r: sub f($a, $b, $c) { $a + 2*$b + 3*$c }; my &g = &f.assuming(a => 1, c => 2); say g(4);
09:28 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 3␤  in sub f at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in sub CURRIED at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3040␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
09:28 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 46234b: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 3␤  in sub f at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in sub CURRIED at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:3044␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
09:28 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 46234b: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 3␤  in sub f at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in sub CURRIED at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:3040␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
09:28 Timbus aw
09:28 timotimo i wonder how good the test coverage of that feature is.
09:29 Timbus https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/9b623e3c3df2d652508a4fee3353847685e61c18/src/core/Routine.pm#L27
09:29 * moritz is against that feature
09:29 moritz it makes the names of position parameters part of the public API, AGAIN
09:29 moritz after we've worked to remove that
09:29 Timbus iono, i was jsut trying to trick it
09:31 jnthn morning o/
09:39 timotimo yeah, the named parameter thing doesn't sound good
09:40 jnthn my &g = { f(1, $^a, 2) }; # :-)
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10:53 timotimo oh hey jnthn
10:54 timotimo i think we ought to build a single serving site "doesjnthnhavetuitstoday.com"
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11:08 FROGGS *g*
11:08 FROGGS +1
11:08 FROGGS timotimo: and then we can vote?
11:08 jnthn o.O
11:09 timotimo nah ;)
11:09 FROGGS jnthn: if you are nice to me I'd even vote for you having a beer tonight :o)
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11:43 tadzik anybody with a linux system with gtk, but no gtk-dev installed?
11:48 FROGGS tadzik: me
11:49 tadzik FROGGS: could you tell me the exit status of `pkg-config --libs --cflags gtk+-2.0`?
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11:51 FROGGS pkg-config --libs --cflags gtk+-2.0
11:51 FROGGS Package gtk+-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path.
11:53 tadzik echo $?
11:53 FROGGS 1
11:53 tadzik okay, awesome :) Thanks a lot
11:53 FROGGS you're welcome :o)
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13:42 pmichaud r: say ~((1,2) xx 10)
13:42 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2␤»
13:43 pmichaud r: say join('', (1,2) xx 10)
13:43 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«12121212121212121212␤»
13:43 tadzik people who've been to YAPC Kiev, please take a look at your credit card balances
13:44 tadzik mine was just stolen (copied), and money withdrawn in Thailand
13:44 * moritz is happy he only paid with cash (and $employer payed the hotel)
13:45 jnthn tadzik: Ohh...that was from all the way back in *Kiev*?
13:46 * jnthn had blamed the Thai withdrawal his bank blocked on something more recent...
13:46 jnthn tadzik: Interesting. Hope you didn't lose anything, aside from wasted time having to get a replacement card...
13:46 tadzik jnthn: I dunno, that just sounds as a high-risk place I was in :/ And it's suspisciously close to Half a Year Ago
13:47 tadzik jnthn: the bank says that they should be able to cover all losses, as I reacted in like 30 seconds
13:47 jnthn tadzik: Yeah. I had exact same. Thing is, it happened to me just after a trip to Donetsk last...hm, November or so. So I'd blamed it on that...
13:47 tadzik I suddenly got 5 text messages saying "your withdraw didn't succeed because of insufficient funds"
13:48 tadzik and I'm sitting at home, not near any ATM
13:48 tadzik hm, maybe it was recent
13:49 jnthn tadzik: Mine didn't even allow the withdrawal. I suspect 'cus I use the card for just about everything here in Sweden, and so the fraud systems spotted the impossibility of me having got groceries in the morning and withdrawing in Thailand a couple of hours later, or something.
13:49 tadzik heh
13:50 jnthn Sweden is so card-oriented you can buy a hotdog with card without even thinking about it... :)
13:52 moritz people did warn me that I should call the bank before traveling .de -> .tr -> .ua in a single day, because the fraud system might mark it as stolen
13:53 jnthn I'm impressed by bank *did* spot it. My card has a habbit of being used all over the place for legit reasons...
13:53 jnthn *my
13:54 jnthn Almost all Europe, though...
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13:55 ribasushi .oO( wait... poland is deemed safer than ukraine?! )
13:56 * ribasushi runs
13:56 moritz maybe they thought that it's too warm in Thailand for jnthn to be there
13:57 jnthn Curiously, I got a postcard for Thailand today. It does indeed look rather warm...
13:58 * jnthn is envious that $friend got to enjoy Thai food, though... :)
13:58 jnthn s/for/from/
14:02 * [Coke] waves
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14:22 FROGGS r: say (1,2).join xx 10).join('|')
14:22 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Unexpected closing bracket�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32msay (1,2).join xx 10[33m�[31m).join('|')[0m�»
14:22 FROGGS r: say ((1,2).join xx 10).join('|')
14:22 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«12|12|12|12|12|12|12|12|12|12␤»
14:23 moritz r: say ((1, 2) xx 10).join: '|'<
14:23 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Unable to parse quote-words subscript; couldn't find right angle quote�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32msay ((1, 2) xx 10).join: '|'<[33m�[31…»
14:23 moritz r: say ((1, 2) xx 10).join: '|'
14:23 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«1|2|1|2|1|2|1|2|1|2|1|2|1|2|1|2|1|2|1|2␤»
14:23 moritz r: say ((1, 2) xx 10).tree.join: '|'
14:24 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«1 2|1 2|1 2|1 2|1 2|1 2|1 2|1 2|1 2|1 2␤»
14:24 timotimo how unreasonable would it be to create an assuming candidate by running an eval?
14:24 moritz very
14:24 timotimo er ... for the (10, *, 30) case i mean
14:25 timotimo rather than, say, slicing and dicing the positionals passed in
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14:30 timotimo rn: sub abc($a, $b, $c) { "$a $b $c" }; say &abc.assuming(1, *, 3)(100);
14:30 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 3␤  in sub abc at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in sub CURRIED at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:3044␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
14:30 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 46234b: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 3␤  in sub abc at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in sub CURRIED at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:3040␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
14:30 camelia ..rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 3␤  in sub abc at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in sub CURRIED at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3040␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
14:30 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to abc, used 3 of 4 positionals␤  at /tmp/tmpfile line 0 (abc @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1166 (ANON @ 6) ␤  at /tmp/tmpfile line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/COR…»
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14:32 jnthn rn: sub abc($a, $b, $c) { "$a $b $c" }; say {abc(1,$^a,3)}(100) # problem solved :P
14:32 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b, rakudo-moar 46234b, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«1 100 3␤»
14:32 kbaker joined #perl6
14:32 timotimo jnthn: i'd have to build that with an eval.
14:32 timotimo that's why i'm asking if it sounds unreasonable :)
14:33 jnthn timotimo: uh, I'm suggesting you *write that* and don't try to twist assuming into doing it :P
14:33 timotimo ... isn't that specced, though?
14:33 jnthn Given that it's actually shorter than your original suggestion.
14:33 jnthn Isn't what spec'd? Using * in assuming?
14:33 timotimo yes
14:33 * timotimo looks
14:33 jnthn Ugh
14:33 jnthn I kinda hope not, but maybe it is...
14:34 timotimo it is apparently not
14:34 colomon \o/
14:34 timotimo okay.
14:34 colomon ;)
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15:04 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
15:05 timotimo hello patrick!
15:05 PerlJam pmichaud o/
15:05 timotimo how are you today?
15:05 pmichaud Mostly tired.  :-)
15:05 timotimo my day was similar to that >_<
15:06 pmichaud For those of you following my ongoing robotics team saga... on Saturday my older robotics team unexpectedly advanced to the super-regional championships in two weeks.  :)
15:06 timotimo \o/
15:06 timotimo congrats to the little ones
15:06 pmichaud (unexpected as in "we really didn't plan for it")
15:07 moritz $robots++
15:07 moritz $robot-makers++
15:07 sjn $robot-overlords++
15:08 jnthn (pmichaud's robotics teams)++ # wow, *nice*!
15:09 Adriaaan joined #perl6
15:09 sjn I, for one, welcome our new robotic overlords
15:21 thou joined #perl6
15:22 nwc10 pmichaud: so, "no plan survives contact with the enemy"? Cool.
15:22 moritz in this case, no enemy survived contact with the plan, I guess :-)
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15:49 rjbs pmichaud: congratulations and good luck!
15:49 rjbs What more can one hope for than to be blindsided by success?
15:49 rjbs (Flappy Birds Guy not withstanding)
15:51 kst joined #perl6
15:52 masak (pmichaud's super-regional overlord makers)++
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16:01 timotimo so, openpipe works completely on moarvm now on both windows and linux?
16:01 timotimo rjbs: "not withstanding the success"? :)
16:02 rjbs Well, he got blindsided by successand was miserable.
16:03 timotimo yeah, he didn't withstand the success
16:03 timotimo that's probably not what withstand means :|
16:03 rjbs ha
16:03 rjbs No, quite a good wordplay!
16:04 rjbs He didn't withstand the success.  Usually, "X notwithstanding Y" (as one word) means "X is generally true despite the possible counterexample of Y"
16:04 timotimo :)
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16:04 rjbs Maybe you're more fluent than I am and already know this.  Whois indicates you're from Gallifrey, so you've maybe spoken English for several centuries.
16:05 timotimo :D
16:05 rjbs (Hm, I got him from :) to :D... what comes next?)
16:06 rjbs :-|⊃
16:06 rjbs no, not very good
16:07 timotimo so, what about moarvm and openpipe? do i have to build it myself first? :P
16:09 timotimo seems like system.rakudo.moar succeeds in all tests, but it outputs "execvp: no such file or directory" three times in perl6-roast-data
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16:15 FROGGS timotimo: openpipe works, except whn it does not (for pippo)
16:15 FROGGS and the execvp msg is about testing an not existing command
16:15 timotimo ah, that's good to know
16:15 timotimo thanks
16:15 timotimo i'll have a "weekly perl6 changes" blog post ready in a couple of minutes
16:16 FROGGS \o/
16:16 timotimo i'd also like to have a section of "things community members are working on that may or may not land soon"
16:16 timotimo any suggestions for that?
16:16 timotimo i only kind of know what i'm up to
16:17 FROGGS ohh, that is nice
16:17 FROGGS well, maybe "eleven" will be on that list next time
16:17 timotimo should i leave it out for this week's list?
16:17 FROGGS yes
16:17 timotimo OK
16:17 FROGGS well, you could mention that we're aorking on panda atm
16:18 timotimo oh yes
16:18 FROGGS to make it work on moar...
16:18 timotimo and hoelzro has slugged through all the star modules
16:18 FROGGS and that ufo is working on moar (I hope that this is correct)
16:18 timotimo who besides you is working on the moar side of things for panda?
16:18 FROGGS dunno
16:18 FROGGS :o)
16:19 timotimo hmm
16:19 timotimo at some point we could have a rakudo release focused on audio engineering
16:19 timotimo and call it Rakudo Sitar
16:20 * jnthn expects to be working on Moar I/O stuff and hopefully getting sockets in place in the next week.
16:20 timotimo \o/
16:21 FROGGS \o/
16:21 FROGGS lovely!!
16:23 * FROGGS .oO( I/O, I'm tired of using technology. Why don't you sit down on top of me? I/O, I'm tired of using technology. I need you right in front of me - Milow )
16:25 ajr joined #perl6
16:29 timotimo https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2014/02/10/changes-during-week-6-of-2014/
16:30 masak timotimo++
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16:31 masak (for loops being in sink context at the statement level)++ # that is very good
16:31 timotimo agreed
16:32 timotimo it has been specced for a few weeks now
16:32 masak do we really have "lazy" and "eager" prefixes? the commit I saw fly by just parsed them, didn't give them semantics.
16:33 masak never seen "I'ven't" before :)
16:34 masak timotimo: "Until I do the rakudo release for this month, jnthn wants to get the IO system rewritten/refactored." -- think it should be s/Until/Before/
16:36 grep0r joined #perl6
16:38 jnthn masak: eager does call .eager, iirc
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16:55 FROGGS timotimo++
16:57 FROGGS p: say eager for ^10 -> $x { -$x } # I guess I will get used to do this instead using map :o)
16:57 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b: OUTPUT«0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8 -9␤»
16:57 timotimo or do.
16:58 timotimo or surround it in ( )
16:58 timotimo p: say (for ^10 -> $x { -$x })
16:58 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b: OUTPUT«0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5 -6 -7 -8 -9␤»
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17:41 TimToady masak: well, really at "statementlist" level, since there are statements in various other places too that don't impose sink context
17:41 masak troo
17:41 TimToady inside parens or brackets, for instance
17:42 TimToady as timotimo++ was demonstrating above, now that I see it
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17:47 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/AKS_test_for_primes#Perl_6 is kinda prety now; not sure what to explain, if anything...
17:49 TimToady *pretty
17:49 TimToady syntax highlighting is ignorant of closure interpolation, alas
17:50 SamuraiJack_ joined #perl6
17:50 jnthn TimToady: Should the default semantics for (.foo for @a) be lazy?
17:51 TimToady I'd think so; "lists are lazy by default in Perl 6" is what we've been maintaining
17:51 jnthn OK
17:51 jnthn Now statementlist level ones are sink, I think we're safe to do that.
17:51 TimToady \o/
17:52 TimToady there are probably some RC entries to fix soonish... :)
17:52 jnthn I guess same rules apply with (loop { foo() }) style things?
17:53 TimToady I'd think so, especially since loop is by default infinite
17:53 jnthn *nod*
17:53 TimToady some things can obviously be optimized to eager, of course
17:54 jnthn I'm still not happy with any of the ways I thought of to factor the value producing / sink variants of those, but will implement the value producing case once I think up a factoring I'm happy with.
17:54 TimToady one of the more important spots to eagerize may be iterating shaped arrays
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19:00 vendethiel I still don't understand the purpose of `so`
19:01 jnthn Low precedence of ?, just like and is low prec of &&
19:01 moritz m: say 5 ~~ any(1..10)
19:01 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:01 moritz m: say 5 == any(1..10)
19:01 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«any(False, False, False, False, True, False, False, False, False, False)␤»
19:01 moritz m: say so 5 == any(1..10)
19:01 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:01 * moritz kinda prefers the second answer
19:02 jnthn :)
19:02 moritz http://faq.perl6.org/#so
19:02 jnthn Yeah. You'd need parens if you used prefix:<?> there...and it's nicer without :)
19:02 jnthn walk &
19:02 vendethiel noted. moritz++
19:03 TimToady arguably the "$p > 1 and" just clutters things up if you're never going to call it with anything less than 2
19:03 vendethiel That faq is rly cool !
19:04 moritz \o/
19:04 TimToady maybe I should just assert it in the siggie
19:06 dalek faq: 2b78b5a | moritz++ | answers.md:
19:06 dalek faq: link to http://doc.perl6.org/language/containers
19:06 dalek faq: review: https://github.com/perl6/faq/commit/2b78b5a463
19:06 moritz maybe tonight is a good time for doc hacking
19:07 moritz does anybody have wishes on what to document?
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19:11 TimToady hah, last changes actually broke that AKS solution :)
19:12 vendethiel " In general this requires solving the halting problem, which even Perl 6 compiler writers have trouble with." oh, really ? :D
19:12 TimToady can't write a list comprehension inside {} anymore...
19:12 vendethiel also, typo "has a ist of known Perl 6 modules, "  ist -> list
19:13 Rotwang joined #perl6
19:13 dalek faq: f25bbba | moritz++ | answers.md:
19:13 dalek faq: typo, vendethiel++
19:13 dalek faq: review: https://github.com/perl6/faq/commit/f25bbbaebf
19:14 moritz m: .say for <a b c>.combinations(2)
19:14 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«a b␤a c␤b c␤»
19:14 vendethiel moritz++
19:14 moritz m: say .join('|') for <a b c>.combinations(2)
19:14 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«a|b␤a|c␤b|c␤»
19:17 TimToady hmm, for is supposed to flatten, I think
19:17 TimToady oh, wait, nm
19:17 TimToady .combinations doesn't return parcels anymore
19:17 moritz only if... nm
19:17 moritz :-)
19:17 * TimToady is still very out-of-it
19:18 moritz m: say .join('|') for <a b c>.combinations(2..3)
19:18 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«a|b␤a|c␤b|c␤a|b|c␤»
19:20 dalek doc: 1c5b353 | moritz++ | lib/List.pod:
19:20 dalek doc: Document List.combinations
19:20 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1c5b353f84
19:21 moritz r: .say for <a b c>.permutations
19:21 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b, rakudo-jvm 46234b: OUTPUT«a b c␤a c b␤b a c␤b c a␤c a b␤c b a␤»
19:21 camelia ..rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'postcircumfix:<[ ]>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, :BIND($BIND)!)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, Any :SINK($SINK)!, *%other)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, Any :delete($delete)!, *%other)␤:(Any \SELF,…»
19:22 moritz moarbug!
19:23 LLamaRider joined #perl6
19:24 moritz p: .say for <a a b>.permutations
19:24 camelia rakudo-parrot 46234b: OUTPUT«a a b␤a b a␤a a b␤a b a␤b a a␤b a a␤»
19:24 LLamaRid1r joined #perl6
19:28 dalek doc: 493a216 | moritz++ | lib/List.pod:
19:28 dalek doc: List.permutations
19:28 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/493a2160f8
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19:32 dalek doc: 9214f42 | moritz++ | htmlify.pl:
19:32 dalek doc: hopefully more distinct styling for the footer
19:32 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9214f42258
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19:43 raydiak moritz: since you're working on docs, figured I'd mention that search on the homepage will be done some time in the next 12 hours...been having problems w/my server on and off for a couple days now, it has slowed my progress on all things (switching to linode next month, methinks)
19:52 moritz raydiak: ok, no hurry
19:52 dalek nqp: 13ef89d | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
19:52 dalek nqp: bump rev for waitpid fix
19:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/13ef89d720
19:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 260cd71 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
19:53 dalek rakudo/nom: bump rev for waitpid fix
19:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/260cd71346
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20:13 raydiak moritz: yeah, I know, I just look like a flake when I express intention to perform a 1-2 hour job, and then it doesn't materialize for days :) so figured I'd touch base so you don't decide to go off and replicate the work I already started
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20:37 yath ohai o/
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20:38 FROGGS RT #121213
20:38 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=121213
20:39 pippo m: nqp::getenvhash();
20:39 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: ( no output )
20:39 pippo m: say nqp::getenvhash();
20:39 camelia rakudo-moar 46234b: OUTPUT«("LESSOPEN" => "| /usr/bin/lesspipe \%s", "TMUX" => "/tmp/tmux-1005/default,26465,0", "MAIL" => "/var/mail/p6eval", "SSH_CLIENT" => "87.158.155.58 41019 22", "USER" => "p6eval", "LANGUAGE" => "en_US:en", "SHLVL" => "2", "HOME" => "/home/p6eval", "XDG_SESSI…»
21:04 nwc10 what's the best way to do a range in NQP? eg this:
21:05 nwc10 r: my $a = [-258..258]; for ($a) {say($_)}
21:05 nwc10 but not Perl 6
21:05 camelia rakudo-parrot 260cd7, rakudo-jvm 260cd7, rakudo-moar 260cd7: OUTPUT«-258 -257 -256 -255 -254 -253 -252 -251 -250 -249 -248 -247 -246 -245 -244 -243 -242 -241 -240 -239 -238 -237 -236 -235 -234 -233 -232 -231 -230 -229 -228 -227 -226 -225 -224 -223 -222 -221 -220 -219 -218 -217 -216 …»
21:05 nwc10 is there any Fine Manual for NQP?
21:07 moritz nwc10: not really; the best documentation is the "Rakudo and NQP Internals Workshop" course material by jnthn++
21:08 timotimo nwc10: i think you'll need to build a loop for that
21:08 nwc10 3 arg for exists? Or I need something more primitive?
21:08 timotimo i would personally build a while loop
21:09 jnthn hoelzro: Just pushed a fix for RT #121213.
21:09 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=121213
21:09 jnthn nwc10: If NQP has that, it's the loop statement.
21:10 jnthn nqp: sub range($min, $max) { my @x; nqp::push(@x, $min++) while $min <= $max; @x } # or so
21:11 camelia nqp-moarvm, nqp-jvm, nqp-parrot: ( no output )
21:11 jnthn nqp: sub range($min, $max) { my @x; nqp::push(@x, $min++) while $min <= $max; @x }; for range(1,10) { say($_) }
21:11 camelia nqp-moarvm, nqp-jvm, nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
21:11 nwc10 aha thanks
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21:52 timotimo i don't think it's necessarily a good idea to generate an actual list for that :P
21:53 timotimo oh, hehe
21:54 timotimo randal l schwartz commented on the unary sort advent calendar post with "Yeay! A built-in Schwartzian Transform!"
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23:07 raydiak moritz: the home search is in the "search" branch of my doc fork, and you can see it working at http://p6doc.cyberuniverses.com - I won't merge it until I've gotten your feedback
23:07 raydiak and off to do errands...bbl
23:09 timotimo raydiak: when you input something that leads to no results, it doesn't give any feedback that it actually works
23:09 timotimo and if you find something, it will make a popup that extends past the right end of the page, so you have to horizontally scroll to see everything
23:11 jnthn timotimo: whtat browser, ooc?
23:12 timotimo chrome
23:12 jnthn timotimo: Did you mean vertically in the second comment?
23:12 jnthn Oh, no, you didn't
23:12 timotimo i have to scroll from the left to the right
23:12 jnthn But I don't get that issue
23:12 jnthn oh, wait...depends what I search
23:12 timotimo yeah
23:13 timotimo "method" for example :P
23:13 jnthn I think the search box probably wants to move inline with the page, to the left, though.
23:13 jnthn So you notice it
23:13 jnthn It should be one of the first things people notice, I think.
23:13 jnthn As folks search long before they browse, these days...
23:13 timotimo aye
23:13 timotimo people these days am i rite
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