Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-02-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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03:32 TimToady so, I guess everyone in the Americas is out partying tonight...
03:34 rjbs Out in my parts, they're all looking miserably out their windows.
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05:55 daxim http://paste.scsys.co.uk/304593        Ambiguous call problem
05:55 daxim am I doing something wrong?
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06:13 raydiak daxim: I don't think return type is considered in any way for multi dispatch, only params...so it can't tell which one you want to call
06:15 lue yeah, only the signatures count. Besides, I don't think there exists a very sane way to use return types in MMD anyway.
06:16 daxim this means I have to make a different name for each type
06:21 daxim next problem:  http://paste.scsys.co.uk/304605   expected 'Array[Int]' but got 'Array'
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06:26 raydiak not sure, but I think something about typed arrays is not done yet...getting rid of [Int] will probably fix it
06:27 daxim that's not a fix, but papering over a shortcoming (if typed arrays are really not done yet)
06:27 lue daxim:  return [4,5,6];  says nothing about the type of Array, despite how obvious it is to you :)
06:28 daxim okay, does that mean I have to help out the system in determining that?
06:28 daxim if yes, how?   I already tried [Int(4), …]
06:29 lue r: my @a is Array[Int] = 1,2,3; say @a.perl; say @a.WHAT;
06:29 camelia rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤Unhandled exception: No exception handler located for warn␤   at <unknown>:1  (/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/languages/perl6/runtim​e/CORE.setting.moarvm:print_exception:4294967295)␤ from src/gen/m…»
06:29 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 0d2b68: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤Unhandled exception: use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤  in warn (gen/jvm/CORE.setting:677)␤  in warn (gen/jvm/CORE.setting:673)␤  in Str (gen/jvm/CORE.setting:1023)␤ …»
06:29 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0d2b68: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in any throw at src/Perl6/World.nqp:2442â�¤â�¤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string contextâ�¤[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Can't use unknown trait…»
06:30 Timbus dispatch based on return type. oh boy
06:30 lue daxim: anything more complex with arrays and such, such as shaping or typing, is barely implemented if at all at the moment :( It's easiest to just go with Array instead of Array[Int] right now
06:32 daxim a meta observation: how come that always the first thing I try does not work?  next year, surely, will be the year of desktop linux^W^Wperl6
06:33 lue daxim: depends on what type of stuff you're doing. :) S09 is one of the really weak spots at the moment.
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07:35 FROGGS jnthn: I have a curiosity, and I'm sure you won't like it
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07:36 FROGGS jnthn: when trying to run panda's bootstrap.pl using perl6-m, it hangs in Perl6::ModuleLoader when trying to compile Panda::Ecosystem
07:37 FROGGS jnthn: however, when I add DEBUG() statements, it does not hang, but complains (correctly) about "When pre-compiling a module[...]"
07:37 FROGGS which scares me a bit
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07:58 b^_^d /win 12
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09:30 jnthn r: my Int @a = 1,2,3; sub foo(Int @x) { say 'ok' }; foo(@a)
09:30 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«ok␤»
09:31 jnthn r: sub foo(Int @x) { say 'ok' }; foo(Array[Int].new(1,2,3))
09:31 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«ok␤»
09:32 jnthn daxim: ^^ is the right way. They are *nominally* typed.
09:33 jnthn daxim: Using a feature wrongly and then saying it doesn't work is kinda silly.
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09:34 FROGGS jnthn: do you see my msg from two hours ago?
09:35 moritz that said, there are lots of corners where typed arrays don't behave well
09:36 jnthn moritz: There are, and I'm sure for newcomers it can be a surprise that typed arrays are nominally typed...
09:37 jnthn But folks saying "oh, they're not implemented yet" in response to a program that, even if we implemented all of S09, would still be incorrect, is unhelpful.
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09:38 jnthn FROGGS: Yeah, but I ain't gonna be able to look into it today
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09:38 FROGGS jnthn: you are not supposed to look into that
09:38 FROGGS you should just say "wth" :o)
09:39 jnthn FROGGS: wth!!??!!!
09:39 moritz jnthn: agreed
09:40 FROGGS :o)
09:40 jnthn FROGGS: Sadly, I've no even any guesses on that.
09:40 jnthn FROGGS: Unless it's some odd exception-y thing
09:41 jnthn But I kinda hope not. :)
09:41 FROGGS I will debug it further today and will keep you updated once I know more
09:42 jnthn k
09:42 * jnthn digs into writing the code so he can make the slides so he can give the talk...
09:43 FROGGS so he will be famous \o/
09:43 FROGGS ohh, wait...
09:49 jnthn heh
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10:40 grondilu rn: say (1 + *)(2);
10:40 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3␤»
10:41 grondilu rn: say .(2) for (1, 2) X+ *
10:41 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3 4␤»
10:41 camelia ..rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1010␤  in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3996␤  in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3994␤  in block  at src/gen/m…»
10:41 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 0d2b68: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1212␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1202␤  in method Numeric at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:1010␤  in sub infix:<+> at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:3996…»
10:41 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0d2b68: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1219␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1210␤  in method Numeric at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:1013␤  in sub infix:<+> at gen/parrot/CO…»
10:47 grondilu rn: say .WHAT given 1 + 1/Inf
10:47 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
10:47 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
10:52 * grondilu would have been happy with a Rat
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11:06 grondilu std: my $x = 2; $x [R/]= 1; say $x;
11:06 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 125m␤»
11:07 grondilu rn: my $x = 2; $x [R/]= 1; say $x;
11:07 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
11:07 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32mmy $x = 2; $x [R/]=[33m�[31m 1; say $x;[0m�»
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12:05 timotimo grondilu: rats have integers as their nom and denom, how are they supposed to store an inf in one of these? :(
12:05 timotimo FROGGS: can you use gdb?
12:06 timotimo maybe my gdb python scripts will be of a bit of assistance?
12:07 FROGGS timotimo: I think Int is specced to be able to store Inf as well
12:07 FROGGS timotimo: I can use gdb, yes
12:07 FROGGS but I am not sure for what I'd need gdb right now :o)
12:08 timotimo if i build a frame filter that shows the current file and line of the interpreter in the backtrace
12:08 timotimo would that help?
12:10 FROGGS I try that perhaps this evening, when I know where I will start looking
12:30 * corecatcher slaps timotimo
12:35 grondilu timotimo: I meant that */Inf could return 0.Rat instead of 0.Num
12:35 grondilu rn: say .WHAT given 1/Inf
12:35 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
12:35 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
12:37 timotimo oh. huh.
12:40 timotimo corecatcher: "you must log in with services to message this user"
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12:48 timotimo corecatcher: check your status window, i sent you an irc invite
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13:23 Ven omfg spider-mario est un perl6-eur :o
13:24 spider-mario pourquoi cette surprise ?
13:24 Ven je sais pas, ca me fait juste rire de voir des pseudo d'il y a longtemps
13:25 Ven mais oui tant mieux :)
13:33 Util r: my     $a = 3; say ++$a;
13:33 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«4␤»
13:34 Util r: my int $a = 3; say ++$a;
13:34 camelia rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«No such method 'STORE' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in sub prefix:<++> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4344␤  in sub prefix:<++> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1758␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:34 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0d2b68: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable value␤  in sub prefix:<++> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:4348␤  in sub prefix:<++> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:1762␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:34 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 0d2b68: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable value␤  in sub prefix:<++> at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:4344␤  in sub prefix:<++> at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:1758␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:34 Util ???
13:35 Util r: my int $a is rw = 3; say ++$a;
13:35 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Can't use unknown trait 'is rw' in a variable declaration.â�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32mmy int $a is rw [33mâ��[31m= 3; say ++$a;[0mâ�¤   …»
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13:40 timotimo Util: known deficiency :(
13:40 jnthn $a + 1
13:40 jnthn or $a = $a + 1
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13:42 timotimo += 1 will work, too
13:42 timotimo it will also work inside expressions
13:42 timotimo r: my int $a = 1; say ($a += 1) * ($a += 1)
13:42 camelia rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«No such method 'STORE' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block  at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16455␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:42 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 0d2b68: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable value␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:16458␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:42 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 0d2b68: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable value␤  in block  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:16705␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:42 timotimo oh
13:43 timotimo r: my int $a = 1; say ($a = $a + 1) * ($a = $a + 1)
13:43 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«6␤»
13:43 timotimo hm, so it's pre-increment always
13:43 timotimo that makes sense
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13:44 jnthn The issue is simply that we need a way to refer to natives container-style, *but* that we can also inline away in the common cases (like ++), otherwise we'll end up with $a++ being a load slower than $a = $a + 1...
13:46 jnthn ...so it's one of those annoying "harder than it looks" problems.
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13:48 FROGGS to its defense it would be easy to fix this wrongish
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14:06 Util timotimo, jnthn, FROGGS: Thanks!
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14:12 [Coke] moritz: http://planeteria.org/perl6/ has been updated. Give it a few hours to refresh, i guess.
14:17 timotimo thank you, [Coke]
14:18 timotimo you can also remove Konrad Borowski from the subscriptions, as that just 404s nowadays :(
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14:36 [Coke] timotimo: removed. again, may take some time for the UI to reflect.
14:37 timotimo sure
14:37 timotimo thank you
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14:43 TimToady FROGGS: not only would it be easy to fix wrongish, but C and JVM have very different ideas of what is "wrongish"
14:43 TimToady Gosling once told me that he intentionally designed the JVM to make it impossible to implement C on it
14:45 mathw I can see why he'd take that approach
14:46 mathw Although I take issue with the word 'impossible'. Maybe impossible to implement C in a way that runs at a decent speed...
14:47 mathw But getting away from a variety of C-ish things is a primary driver in my choice of programming languages these days. So long, C++...
14:47 tadzik I think the pointer arithmetic itself may be quit impossible
14:48 tadzik as in: take a pointer to this struct and call whatever's 4 bytes further
14:48 mathw tadzik: nonsense, you can simulate a memory layout for all your variables in a byte array
14:48 tadzik oh, heh
14:48 tadzik I guess
14:49 timotimo time for ASM.jar
14:49 timotimo oh, wait, that already exists
14:49 mathw Not very practical I'll grant you, but it's *possible*
14:49 tadzik well, if you get creative enough, you can write an x86 emulator and then a compiler for it :)
14:49 mathw s/creative/masochistic/
14:49 tadzik and then turtles all the way down
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14:49 mathw surely it'd be easier to write an ARM emulator
14:49 mathw and then just use GCC
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14:51 mathw (yes you could use GCC with your x86 emulator, but ARM's instruction set is smaller)
14:51 timotimo mips!
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14:53 jnthn .oO( many instructions per second? )
14:54 mathw A friend of mine's developing a microarchitecture in his spare time, I could use that
14:55 mathw ...well, maybe after it's Turing-complete, not sure it is yet
14:55 timotimo doesn't take much :))
14:55 [Coke] anyone working on rakudo-turing ?
14:56 jnthn mathw: Well, x86 showed that if you design...well...enough, you can end up with a single instruction being Turing-complete :P
14:57 mathw jnthn: for some value of 'well', sure...
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15:36 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/544d3d75bd92932e635d - current status of my moarvm heap analyzer
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15:40 tadzik http://goo.gl/JN71PV stables :)
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15:40 tadzik timotimo++ # awesome stuff
15:57 [Coke] timotimo++
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16:19 hoelzro timotimo++ # nice!
16:19 * hoelzro is back
16:19 FROGGS wb hoelzro
16:19 hoelzro .tell btyler I did a little work on using ufo with different backends; let me know if you encounter any surprises
16:19 yoleaux hoelzro: I'll pass your message to btyler.
16:20 hoelzro thanks yoleaux!
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16:36 btyler hoelzro: no surprises, your ufo fork was just what I was looking for. the vm autodetection is a nice touch :)
16:36 yoleaux 16:19Z <hoelzro> btyler: I did a little work on using ufo with different backends; let me know if you encounter any surprises
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16:36 hoelzro btyler: glad you could make use of it =)
16:36 FROGGS is there a PR for masak/ufo ?
16:40 hoelzro FROGGS: yes
16:41 FROGGS hoelzro++
16:45 timotimo except for "analyze the gen2, too" and "diff between two statistics", what else should i try to put into the heap analyzer?
16:48 TimToady tell me which pointer I should've freed earlier to release a bunch of memory?
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16:50 TimToady I guess what would really be interesting to know (and hard to calculate) is how long we held onto each pointer after the last time any of its dependents was accessed
16:52 TimToady and things like how often we hang onto an entire list when we'll never visit the head again
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16:59 FROGGS ha!
17:00 FROGGS I know what's wrong with panda
17:00 FROGGS NOTHING!
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17:00 FROGGS dir() is supposed to return absolute paths, and it does not
17:01 FROGGS so panda descends into its own lib and tries to install itself when it should build/install ext/File__Find/lib
17:02 denis_boyun joined #perl6
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17:03 timotimo i'm progressively getting sicker :\
17:03 FROGGS :/
17:04 nsh joined #perl6
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17:04 timotimo i shall drive home and wrap myself up in blankets
17:04 timotimo but first i shall acquire some tea
17:04 panchiniak joined #perl6
17:05 FROGGS and perhaps buy some drugs
17:06 timotimo i have some left at home
17:06 timotimo i have some with me right now! \o/
17:06 FROGGS \o/
17:06 FROGGS take all the things! /o/
17:08 dalek panda/moar-support: 53b1d41 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Fetcher.pm:
17:08 dalek panda/moar-support: fix "my" stupidness
17:08 dalek panda/moar-support: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/53b1d41aed
17:16 btyler FROGGS: I'm still seeing a hang on building lib/Panda/Ecosystem.pm on the panda moar-support branch, like you mentioned the other day. is that a different problem?
17:16 FROGGS btyler: it is a different problem but I am sure it will vanish
17:16 FROGGS (at least it will be hidden)
17:18 FROGGS ==> Successfully installed File::Find \o/
17:18 FROGGS that is its local checkout, but still
17:19 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
17:19 FROGGS -                    $elem := $.SPEC.catfile($!path, $elem) if self.is-relative && self ne '.';
17:19 FROGGS +                    $elem := $.SPEC.catfile($!path, $elem) if self ne '.';
17:19 FROGGS that is the patch btw in rakduo/src/core/IO.pm
17:20 FROGGS commute &
17:29 denis_boyun joined #perl6
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17:47 timotimo TimToady: what you wished for with regards to the pointers sounds pretty hard from my point of view; i don't exactly have a ways to follow moving objects around
17:48 BenGoldberg gps tracking! ;)
17:50 timotimo well, one could introduce an extra field to MVMObject that is just a counter that the allocator counts up every time it allocates any object
17:50 timotimo that way you'd have a global identifier
17:51 denisboyun joined #perl6
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18:07 arnsholt O hai! o/
18:08 timotimo hey arnsholt!
18:08 timotimo how's life?
18:10 sjn arnsholt: heya
18:13 arnsholt Life's good. Teaching, thesis writing
18:13 arnsholt Trying to get callbacks working on JVM
18:13 timotimo time to start with diffing the histograms
18:13 sjn arnsholt: sent you mail about dconway in Oslo \o/
18:13 arnsholt I think I'm mostly there, but JNA keeps yelling at me for some reason
18:13 arnsholt sjn: Cheers!
18:13 timotimo d'oh :(
18:15 arnsholt Yeah, 'tis a bit annoying
18:15 * timotimo finally signs up for GPW2014
18:23 timotimo i ought to do something 6y there
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18:38 hoelzro think I found a mokudo bug
18:38 hoelzro r: printf '%s - %s'
18:38 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«Too many directives: found 2, but no arguments after the format string␤␤»
18:39 hoelzro hmm
18:39 hoelzro it infinite loops on my machine
18:42 timotimo REPL?
18:45 raydiak morning #perl6
18:45 timotimo hey raydiak
18:46 raydiak hiya timotimo
18:46 FROGGS ==> Successfully installed panda
18:46 timotimo \o/
18:46 FROGGS :o)
18:46 raydiak w/moar?
18:46 timotimo that's the implication
18:46 raydiak hooray :)
18:47 raydiak a question came to mind last night: what happens if you inherit from multiple classes with different reprs?
18:48 timotimo i can't imagine how that would be supported
18:49 raydiak r: class Foo is Array is Str {}; say Foo.new.REPR
18:49 hoelzro timotimo: yes
18:49 camelia rakudo-parrot 0d2b68, rakudo-jvm 0d2b68, rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«P6opaque␤»
18:49 hoelzro FROGGS++
18:50 raydiak erm, well...what uses a repr other than p6opaque?
18:50 timotimo nothing, afaict
18:51 timotimo oh
18:51 timotimo well CStruct if you do NativeCall
18:51 raydiak thought I remembered reading about several different reprs somewhere, but can't recall...perhaps I'm imagining issues which don't exist
18:52 raydiak eg P6Hash, etc
18:52 timotimo no, that would be VMArray and VMHash
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18:52 timotimo they are wrapped by a P6opaque if you're in perl6 and exposed directly if you're in nqp
18:52 FROGGS m: say nqp::list.REPR.name
18:52 camelia rakudo-moar 0d2b68: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'name': no method cache and no .^find_method␤  in block  at /tmp/fmi6JwoAqv:1␤␤»
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18:59 raydiak can you create a class which can act as (for example) an array or a string? I guess that'd just be an array with an overloaded .Str method?
18:59 timotimo not necessarily
18:59 timotimo you may want to just have an attribute that is box_target
19:00 raydiak what is box_target?
19:00 timotimo it tells P6opaque where to put native strings/ints/doubles
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19:01 timotimo you just have to write "has int $foo is box_target;" i think
19:01 raydiak oh neat
19:03 dalek rakudo/nom: 1ce379e | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/IO.pm:
19:03 dalek rakudo/nom: fix result of dir()
19:03 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:03 dalek rakudo/nom: This confuddled panda so much, that it tried to installed itself rather
19:03 dalek rakudo/nom: then the requested module.
19:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1ce379eeb0
19:04 FROGGS er, s/installed/install/
19:04 FROGGS -.-
19:05 Rotwang joined #perl6
19:06 raydiak FROGGS++
19:09 Sqirrel joined #perl6
19:11 colomon FROGGS++ # panda on moar
19:12 FROGGS well, it says that it installed itself correctly, but this seems to be a lie
19:12 btyler yeah, it misses the executable, at least for me
19:13 FROGGS there is only the site/lib/panda/state, nothing else
19:18 FROGGS hmpf, panda installs to panda/.work/<mumble>/home/froggs/dev/panda/...
19:19 timotimo heh, oops :)
19:19 hoelzro this code:
19:19 hoelzro .say for @modules>>.name.chars;
19:19 hoelzro is functionally equivalent to .name.chars.say for @modules, right?
19:19 timotimo no
19:19 timotimo it calls .chars on the result of @modules.map: *.name
19:20 timotimo so it calls .chars on the list, not the individual items
19:20 hoelzro ooooooooooohhhhhhhh
19:20 hoelzro that explains this obscenely large value
19:20 hoelzro thanks timotimo
19:20 timotimo and also that you only get one value :)
19:21 hoelzro so @modules>>.name>>.chars, then?
19:21 timotimo yeah
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19:27 TimToady timotimo: I wasn't seriously suggesting you do that; it was just wishing for a pony
19:28 timotimo maybe someone will at some point
19:28 timotimo or someone will offer me a big sum of money :)
19:31 * TimToady hopes timotimo++ isn't coming down what whatever TimToady has, which has so far lasted 18 days...
19:31 timotimo probably not. scratchy throat, runny nose, achey head
19:31 timotimo seems like a regular old flu
19:31 timotimo with unfortunate timing
19:33 arnsholt Right, at least now I know *why* JNA is complaining
19:34 arnsholt Next step, how to implement it without codegenning ALL THE THINGS...
19:50 arnsholt Right, I think I can make this work. But that'll be tomorrow methinks
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19:51 tadzik FROGGS++ (wizard)
19:51 FROGGS *g*
19:52 arnsholt tadzik: With a bit of luck I'll have callbacks working tomorrow or during the weekend. Your asteroids game/SDL stuff still potentially a user for it? =)
19:52 timotimo \o/
19:52 timotimo arnsholt: can i do anything to help you get a quick start with nativecall on moarvm?
19:53 tadzik arnsholt: 'fcourse! What's more, I'm in Oslo next week :)
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19:54 hoelzro alright, #perl6 folk!  I updated my "Rakudo * modules on Mokudo" gist, now with more accurate results! https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8982533
19:55 TimToady hoelzro++
19:55 hoelzro \o/
19:55 arnsholt timotimo: You can start implementing stuff, if you want to
19:55 hoelzro I also prettified the summary
19:55 hoelzro and I included the script I wrote to generate the results
19:56 timotimo arnsholt: that seems like a daunting thing to ask of me :P
19:56 hoelzro a good next step would probably be to go through everything on modules.perl6.org
19:56 arnsholt timotimo: It's mostly a question of de-Parrotifying the Parrot version, so in one way less complicated than the JVM bits
19:57 timotimo hmm
19:57 arnsholt But I think following the path I've taken on JVM should be sound for the Moar version as well
19:57 timotimo what file(s) would you point me at in order to get a good overview?
19:58 arnsholt The ops, in src/vm/parrot/ops/nqp_dyncall.ops, and the NativeCall REPRs (CArray, CPointer, CStr, CStruct, NativeCall)
19:59 timotimo ISTR not_gerd doing a lot of work on c structure support
19:59 arnsholt Yeah, he did a lot
19:59 timotimo i don't really know where that is/went and i haven't seen him online in a long time
19:59 arnsholt But he started changing lots of the internal structures, so I'm not sure how much of that stuff fits into the expectations of NativeCall as it is today
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20:00 arnsholt There are two ops that are needed to implement most of the things: nqp::buildnativecall and nqp::nativecall
20:00 tadzik yeah, not_gerd mysteriously disappeared :(
20:01 tadzik I hope he's alright
20:01 arnsholt So if you set up those two ops in NQP/Moar, and start building the int/num/string stuff, we're well on our way
20:01 timotimo probably swallowed up by finishing his university stuff?
20:01 tadzik I'd love to see stuff on JVM, because parallel GC
20:01 arnsholt After that, we can start moving the REPRs over and plugging them into the ops
20:02 FROGGS omfg /o\
20:02 tadzik Seeing Parrot taking 200ms to render a frame because GC demotivated me a bit :)
20:02 arnsholt Hehe, I can see how that'll happen, yeah
20:02 timotimo i should build buildnativecall and nativecall and *then* build the reprs?
20:02 timotimo that seems backwards to me right now
20:02 arnsholt Yeah
20:02 FROGGS the million dollar question: what (the hell!) is wrong here? https://github.com/tadzik/panda/blob/​moar-support/lib/Panda/Builder.pm#L88
20:02 arnsholt int/num/string arguments don't need custom reprs
20:03 arnsholt Which means that you can ignore the REPRs while you get the basic infrastructure working
20:03 timotimo ah, ok
20:03 timotimo i suppose the test suite will give me a bunch of simple things to try out at first?
20:04 arnsholt That functionality is exercised by the first three test files in NativeCall
20:04 arnsholt Yeah
20:04 arnsholt 01-argless.t, 02-simple-args.t and 03-simple-returns.t
20:05 arnsholt Then there's one each for arrays, structs, pointers, and callbacks, and 07-writebarrier.t (which is a terrible name) which tests a third op which can ignore for now
20:06 arnsholt tadzik: When're you in Oslo next week, BTW?
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20:07 FROGGS Compiling lib/Panda.pm to mbc
20:07 FROGGS ===SORRY!===
20:07 FROGGS STable conflict detected during deserialization.
20:07 FROGGS ó.ò
20:07 arnsholt timotimo: Oh, and on Moar you don't have to do any codegeneration =)
20:07 timotimo oh!
20:08 timotimo that sounds helpful :)
20:08 arnsholt There's computing struct layouts OTOH, but that can pretty much be stolen outright from Parrot =)
20:08 timotimo FROGGS: that error seems to pop up *every*where nowadays :\
20:08 FROGGS timotimo: yeah, I was able to work around it in v5 though
20:08 arnsholt Codegen is required on JVM since we're a bit further away from raw bytes there
20:09 timotimo right
20:11 FROGGS r: "abc" ~ "def" or say(42)
20:11 btyler FROGGS: I hit that when I tried to manually install panda using ufo :(
20:11 camelia rakudo-jvm 1ce379: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:11 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: ( no output )
20:11 timotimo j: say "hi"
20:11 FROGGS btyler: yeah, now you don't even need ufo for that :P
20:11 camelia rakudo-jvm 1ce379: OUTPUT«hi␤»
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20:11 FROGGS r: shell "abc" ~ "def" or say(42)
20:11 camelia rakudo-jvm 1ce379: OUTPUT«42␤»
20:11 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«shell is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:2␤  in sub shell at src/RESTRICTED.setting:7␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
20:11 btyler FROGGS: progress! now we can get our errors automatically :)
20:11 FROGGS r: shell "ls" or say(42)
20:11 camelia rakudo-jvm 1ce379: ( no output )
20:11 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«shell is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:2␤  in sub shell at src/RESTRICTED.setting:7␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
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20:14 dalek panda/moar-support: 3793174 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Fetcher.pm:
20:14 dalek panda/moar-support: properly clean up the path
20:14 dalek panda/moar-support:
20:14 dalek panda/moar-support: Before it was kind of a no-op, since the methods are not called when written
20:14 dalek panda/moar-support: this way in a regex.
20:14 dalek panda/moar-support: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/37931743f9
20:14 dalek panda/moar-support: 20bd234 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Builder.pm:
20:14 dalek panda/moar-support: call shell() with cmd only, and fail() on its result
20:14 dalek panda/moar-support: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/20bd234108
20:14 FROGGS btyler: do you have any clue what causes the STable conflict?
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20:15 btyler FROGGS: not in the slightest. I got about as far as finding where that error is thrown in Moar src (src/6model/serialization.c 2059), and my eyes glazed over a bit
20:16 FROGGS yeah, I am more wondering what in panda makes it pop up
20:17 pdcawley joined #perl6
20:18 hoelzro [commentary on my Perl 6 style would also be welcome =)]
20:19 pdcawley joined #perl6
20:20 tadzik arnsholt: tuesday-friday
20:21 lue joined #perl6
20:21 tadzik FROGGS: well, it's creating directories so it can copy stuff inside them later. I guess...
20:21 tadzik oh, #88...
20:22 tadzik well, isn't it self-explanatory? :)
20:31 FROGGS tadzik: it is, but also fails
20:31 tadzik how so?
20:31 FROGGS it does not fail with the parens though, due to some weirdness
20:32 segomos did async stop working with jvm?
20:37 timotimo it's now called "start"
20:37 timotimo ... er, is that correct?
20:41 segomos ahh that is working, thank you
20:42 PerlJam segomos: see http://jnthn.net/papers/2013-npw-conc.pdf
20:49 segomos thanks, familiar with these from nodejs, this way of doing it looks far more intuitive.  haven't screwed around with it since the word was 'async'
20:49 segomos this doc is p good
20:49 segomos thanks jnthn
20:49 segomos and perljam
20:50 hoelzro so Mokudo gives me "Malformed UTF-8" when trying to decode the URI-encoded version of 'ǂ'
20:50 hoelzro I take it MoarVM is missing some Unicode information?
20:52 timotimo hm. i wonder what exactly it's trying to do
20:52 timotimo what does the uri-encoded version look like? %1234?
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20:52 hoelzro %c7%82
20:53 hoelzro well, %C7%82
20:53 hoelzro also, I get a fun error when loading URI from blib/lib/URI.moarvm versus lib/URI.pm
20:53 FROGGS r: say 'ǂ'
20:53 timotimo huh, interesting.
20:53 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«ǂ␤»
20:54 FROGGS r: say "\c[C7,82]"
20:54 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Unrecognized character name C7�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32msay "\c[C7[33m�[31m,82]"[0m�»
20:54 FROGGS r: say "\x[C7,82]"
20:54 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«Ç‚␤»
20:55 TimToady r: say Buf.new(0xC7,0x82).decode("UTF-8")
20:55 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«ǂ␤»
20:55 FROGGS hoelzro: what is the funny error btw?
20:56 FROGGS the STable thing is not funny btw :P
20:58 hoelzro FROGGS: it's in the gist I posted earlier
20:59 hoelzro https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8982533
20:59 hoelzro URI.txt
21:00 FROGGS this I guess: https://gist.github.com/anony​mous/8982533#file-uri-txt-L25
21:01 hoelzro yes
21:02 FROGGS r: my %default_port = ( ftp => 21 ); say %default_port{'ftp'}.Int // Int;
21:02 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«21␤»
21:02 FROGGS r: my %default_port = ( ftp => 21 ); say %default_port{'hurz'}.Int // Int;
21:02 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«No such method 'Int' for invocant of type 'Any'␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
21:03 hoelzro offending line in URI (the malformed UTF-8 issue): @rc.=map(*.encode('latin-1').decode('UTF-8'))
21:03 hoelzro anyone know why the encode to latin-1?
21:04 TimToady because otherwise it's a string, not a buffer
21:04 FROGGS r: package P { my %dp = ( ftp => 21 ); our sub sp(Str $scheme) { %dp{$scheme}.Int // Int } }; P.sp('hurz') # <--- jnthn
21:04 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379: OUTPUT«No such method 'sp' for invocant of type 'P'␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
21:04 camelia ..rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke null object␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
21:04 FROGGS ohh, wait
21:05 timotimo should it have been :: instead?
21:05 timotimo or did you want to import P?
21:05 timotimo and now: hilbert curves!
21:05 hoelzro ah ha
21:06 hoelzro TimToady: why Latin-1, though?
21:06 TimToady to get all eight bits through, presumably--it's just an alias for iso-8859-1
21:07 TimToady it just changes the interpretation of the high bits from latin-1 to utf-8 without actually changing the bits
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21:09 FROGGS r: package P { my %dp = ( ftp => 21 ); our sub sp(Str $scheme) { %dp{$scheme}.Int // Int } }; say P::sp('ftp') # I dunno why URI fails
21:09 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«21␤»
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21:37 dalek faq: 12e4f15 | (Prog Rammer)++ | answers.md:
21:37 dalek faq: time -> type fix
21:37 dalek faq: review: https://github.com/perl6/faq/commit/12e4f15a62
21:37 dalek faq: 0a89f7c | (Prog Rammer)++ | answers.md:
21:37 dalek faq: creates -> created
21:37 dalek faq: review: https://github.com/perl6/faq/commit/0a89f7c991
21:37 dalek faq: cd82896 | (Brent Laabs)++ | answers.md:
21:37 dalek faq: Merge pull request #2 from prammer1/minor-fixes
21:37 dalek faq:
21:37 dalek faq: Minor fixes (look good to me)
21:37 dalek faq: review: https://github.com/perl6/faq/commit/cd828968a8
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21:47 dalek panda/moar-support: a1ab2f6 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Fetcher.pm:
21:47 dalek panda/moar-support: use IO::Spec.catpath to make windows happy
21:47 dalek panda/moar-support: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/a1ab2f6903
21:48 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/544d3d75bd92932e635d <- moarvm heap analyzer now with a proper diff at the bottom
21:49 lowpro30 joined #perl6
21:49 timotimo (except the diff ought to be in the other direction, but that was easy to fix just now)
21:54 timotimo updated with diff in the right direction
21:55 FROGGS tadzik: ping
21:55 timotimo ← now ready to receive praise
21:56 benabik timotimo++
21:56 timotimo thanks :)
21:57 FROGGS timotimo: what do all these numbers mean? :o)
21:57 FROGGS some of them must be counts and the size in bytes
21:58 timotimo that's right
21:58 FROGGS sizes of objects/stables:
21:58 FROGGS 24 [ 1 24
21:58 FROGGS 32 [========================= 15497 495.904
21:58 timotimo if there's two columns, the right one is for size in bytes, the left for count
21:58 timotimo 24 * 1 = 24 :)
21:58 FROGGS I see
21:58 FROGGS timotimo++ then :o)
21:59 timotimo i think i shall push this now.
22:00 dalek joined #perl6
22:02 FROGGS File::Find's tests are not where windows friendly :/
22:07 aindilis joined #perl6
22:12 hoelzro timotimo: holy crap, that's awesome work
22:12 timotimo thanks :3
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22:29 raydiak whoa, nice; timotimo++
22:32 hoelzro r: "\x[C7,82]".encode('latin-1')
22:32 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: ( no output )
22:32 hoelzro r: say "\x[C7,82]".encode('latin-1')
22:32 camelia rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<c7 3f>␤»
22:32 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<c7 82>␤»
22:32 timotimo oh well :o
22:32 hoelzro that's what's breaking mokudo + URI
22:32 hoelzro (well, aside from the blib loading)
22:37 kaare_ joined #perl6
22:50 hoelzro is it ok to add a failing list to NQP, or should I fudge it somehow?
22:50 hoelzro I'm wondering how clean we want to keep things
22:54 jnthn hoelzro: I prefer we keep it clean
22:55 hoelzro ok
22:55 jnthn I think we support todo
22:55 hoelzro I guess that just means I should try to fix it =)
22:55 * timotimo votes in favor :P
22:55 denisboyun joined #perl6
22:57 jnthn srsly? Moar's latin-1 decoded is bust? :/
22:58 jnthn *decoder
22:58 hoelzro yeah =/
22:58 hoelzro I'm digging in now
22:59 jnthn I had it open 'cus I was about to teach it about decode streams
22:59 jnthn We should probably fix it before I do that :)
23:02 jnthn uh...
23:02 hoelzro ?
23:03 * timotimo expects a "how was this supposed to work at all?!" :)
23:03 jnthn git log src/strings/latin1.c
23:03 jnthn ...
23:03 jnthn fix latin1 so it's right-er.  again, no idea how to test it.
23:03 hoelzro right-er is what I usually do with Moar =P
23:05 jnthn Moar betterer...
23:09 jnthn It appears to have a hard-coded binary search. I wonder if that was coded by hand.
23:09 hoelzro heh, I just got there in the source myself
23:13 hoelzro something about map(*.encode('latin-1').decode('utf-8')) still feels off to me
23:13 hoelzro I get %c7%82, so I create "\x[c7,82]"
23:13 hoelzro I feel like URI should be building a Buf here at the beginning
23:15 hoelzro because "\x[c7,82]" has two codepoints: 0xC7 and 0x82, right?
23:15 hoelzro so it's no wonder that 0x82 gets squashed down to '?'
23:18 jnthn r: "\x[c7,82]".say
23:18 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«Ç‚␤»
23:18 jnthn r: "\x[c7,82]".chars
23:18 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: ( no output )
23:18 jnthn r: "\x[c7,82]".chars.say
23:18 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«2␤»
23:19 jnthn .u 0x82
23:19 yoleaux No characters found
23:20 timotimo okay, i think it's time for me to go hug my hot water bottle and try for some sleep
23:20 telex joined #perl6
23:20 timotimo o/
23:20 hoelzro timotimo: feel better!
23:21 jnthn timotimo: Hope you feel well again soon!
23:21 timotimo i'll give it my best, thanks :)
23:22 timotimo .o( i also hope TimToady will feel well again soon! )
23:22 timotimo http://www.google.org/flutrends/de/#DE-BW ← this seems to match my current status
23:22 timotimo ah well.
23:29 colomon joined #perl6
23:47 nebuchadnezzar joined #perl6
23:49 hoelzro ok, I fixed URI instead of MoarVM
23:50 hoelzro because I'm not well-versed enough to know if this is actually a problem with MoarVM itself

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