Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-02-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:18 * jnthn is tired...
00:18 jnthn Will look some more tomorrow
00:18 jnthn 'night
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00:28 hoelzro night
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00:33 lue I still can't install panda at all :(  Cannot call 'postcircumfix:<{ }>'; none of these signatures match:
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03:03 japhb timotimo: https://gist.github.com/timo/544d3d75bd92932e635d has entered the realm of pure unadulterated awesome.  Now do it for gen2.  ;-)
03:04 japhb hoelzro: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/8982533 is also very nice to see.  Now to get it to 100% OK.  :-)
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04:08 raydiak jnthn: just noticed the backlog about typed arrays from 20 hours ago...thank you for showing us how to do it properly, and I will try not to disseminate any more ignorance :)
04:12 raydiak s/20/19/
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04:30 * timotimo has to take a break from sleeptrying
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04:36 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Parsi​ng/Shunting-yard_algorithm#Perl_6
04:37 TimToady of which the most interesting point is that it overrides the meaning of "shift" and "reduce" in an inner scope
04:38 timotimo what were you thinking, overriding keywords just like that! ;)
04:39 * TimToady blames it on the flu :)
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04:40 TimToady I suppose I coulda made them multis
04:41 timotimo i was just about to ask for a cool implementation of wrapping a list of True/False up in a hilbert curve and displaying them with the unicode upper/lower half block + full block
04:41 timotimo but then i remembered i have to do this in python
04:41 lue PL/I, Perl 6, and REXX have the nicest at-a-glance outputs imo
04:42 * TimToady bows, having considered various options
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04:45 * timotimo has a sneaking suspicion that 256 buckets per page and 32 different object size buckets makes for a whole lot of untaken space
04:47 timotimo i quite hope that that's the main contributor to 100 megabytes of ram for "say 1" in perl6-m
04:47 timotimo because that would make for easy tuning :P
05:34 moritz \o
05:34 timotimo o/
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05:38 raydiak morning moritz
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05:55 raydiak timotimo: it's not python, but as a point of interest, there is hilbert ordering and combining multiple points into single characters in the concurrency branch of Pray
05:56 raydiak it's messy for 2 or 3 different reasons, though, so "cool implementation" not included :)
06:01 timotimo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbert_curve ← i ported xy2d from this article
06:01 timotimo what can i say ... it hilberts :D
06:03 raydiak timotimo: wouldn't have helped much, then...I ported from the same article...though only the d2xy, now that I think about it
06:03 timotimo i must admit, this is darn pretty
06:04 raydiak what are you drawing, anyway?
06:04 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/1f4fa4bc76b270829382
06:04 timotimo how much of the gen2 pages are used vs allocated
06:05 timotimo kind of not so nice that it takes up so much space vertically if there's only one page for all the size buckets
06:05 timotimo but oh well
06:05 raydiak ah, right, the heap analyzer
06:05 timotimo i ought to run a longer program that actually punches a few holes in there
06:06 raydiak Pray is great for punching holes in things :P
06:06 timotimo perl6-m doesn't do permutations yet :(
06:06 timotimo r: say [1, 2, 3, 4].permutations()
06:07 camelia rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'postcircumfix:<[ ]>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, :BIND($BIND)!)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, Any :SINK($SINK)!, *%other)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, Any :delete($delete)!, *%other)␤:(Any \SELF,…»
06:07 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 1 2 4 3 1 3 2 4 1 3 4 2 1 4 2 3 1 4 3 2 2 1 3 4 2 1 4 3 2 3 1 4 2 3 4 1 2 4 1 3 2 4 3 1 3 1 2 4 3 1 4 2 3 2 1 4 3 2 4 1 3 4 1 2 3 4 2 1 4 1 2 3 4 1 3 2 4 2 1 3 4 2 3 1 4 3 1 2 4 3 2 1␤»
06:07 timotimo r: say (1, 2, 3, 4).permutations()
06:07 camelia rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'postcircumfix:<[ ]>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, :BIND($BIND)!)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, Any :SINK($SINK)!, *%other)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, Any :delete($delete)!, *%other)␤:(Any \SELF,…»
06:07 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 1 2 4 3 1 3 2 4 1 3 4 2 1 4 2 3 1 4 3 2 2 1 3 4 2 1 4 3 2 3 1 4 2 3 4 1 2 4 1 3 2 4 3 1 3 1 2 4 3 1 4 2 3 2 1 4 3 2 4 1 3 4 1 2 3 4 2 1 4 1 2 3 4 1 3 2 4 2 1 3 4 2 3 1 4 3 1 2 4 3 2 1␤»
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06:18 timotimo ████████████████
06:18 timotimo ████████████████
06:18 timotimo ██████▄█████████
06:18 timotimo ████████████████
06:18 timotimo ████████████████
06:18 timotimo ████████████████
06:18 timotimo ████████████████
06:18 timotimo ████████████████
06:18 timotimo look!
06:18 timotimo a hole! :D
06:18 Pleiades` I was going to interrupt it, but idk if that would be considered rude here
06:18 timotimo (and 1426 empty pages) (freelist with 1 entries)
06:18 timotimo that doesn't seem right?! o_O
06:18 JimmyZ moarvm?
06:18 timotimo yup
06:20 timotimo those pages all seem to have been allocated. huh.
06:22 timotimo hm, maybe with null pointers though
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06:26 timotimo holy jesus, this is a HUGE free list
06:27 timotimo or i'm just infinilooping
06:27 timotimo yup.
06:34 timotimo cur_page doesn't get bumped
06:37 timotimo wow.
06:37 timotimo this size bucket gets quite some use out of it.
06:49 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/1f4fa4bc76b270829382 - what sayeth you?
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07:03 moritz \o from a car
07:03 moritz timotimo: did you mean "what sayeth thou?" :-)
07:04 moritz high latency is annoying
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08:04 * timotimo resumes his sleeps
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08:10 tadzik FROGGS: pong
08:11 FROGGS tadzik: are the File::Find tests supposed to pass on windows boxes?
08:12 tadzik FROGGS: I think so
08:12 FROGGS because these are hardcoded to forward slashes :/
08:13 tadzik oh
08:14 FROGGS I am just considering making another test file for windows only, and make the current one unix only
08:15 tadzik I'd rather have cross-platform paths everywhere
08:15 tadzik if they're too much of a hassle, let's think how can we make them less hassl
08:15 FROGGS what do you mean by cross platform paths?
08:16 FROGGS you are supposed to get a lib\File back on windows instead of lib/File, no?
08:17 FROGGS I mean, windows does understand forward slashes nowadays... but...
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08:28 tadzik I mean, stop using "path strings", use proper path objects everywhere necessary
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08:30 FROGGS well, then we should just adjust the tests to not compare against strings, no?
08:31 tadzik yes
08:31 FROGGS r: say so "foo/bar".IO.path ~~ "foo\\bar".IO.path
08:31 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379, rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«False␤»
08:31 FROGGS :o(
08:33 tadzik perhaps we need something like https://github.com/odyniec/File-PlainPath :)
08:34 tadzik otoh, we may just want it in core
08:35 FROGGS I'd propose that IO::Path.ACCEPTS should compare the volume/directory/file components without caring about the path separator
08:35 tadzik sounds good to me
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08:40 arnsholt o/
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08:42 FROGGS moin arnsholt
09:11 arnsholt Ooooh... it's working =D
09:11 arnsholt (Sort of)
09:12 masak good morning, #perl6
09:12 masak Perl 6 day today! \o/
09:12 masak finally!
09:13 nwc10 what awesomeness are you going to cook up for us?
09:13 nwc10 (or for yourself)
09:13 nwc10 or is it a surprise?
09:14 arnsholt I've got callbacks returning void working to the point where I need to implement the delegation back to the NQP/Perl 6 callback function
09:14 masak nwc10: 50% p6cc/t4, 50% secret project :)
09:15 arnsholt Something wrong with the code generated for non-void return callbacks though
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09:23 arnsholt JVM segfault! \o/
09:24 arnsholt That usually means my code is at least doing *something* =D
09:29 FROGGS \o/
09:29 FROGGS progress++
09:29 FROGGS err
09:29 FROGGS arnsholt++
09:29 FROGGS :o)
09:30 tadzik :)
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09:38 mathw masak: secret project! Nooooo
09:39 * mathw is too impatient for secret projects
09:40 masak mathw: ok, allow me to be a bit more specific.
09:40 masak mathw: it's a tool for $work, that I'm writing on my spare time because I want to spring it on my colleagues.
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09:43 mathw I hope they appreciate it then :)
09:44 masak I'm probably gonna blog about it, too.
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09:47 mathw I wonder if I can get a job where I don't have to do .NET web development anymore
09:49 masak mathw: we're hiring.
09:49 nsh_ joined #perl6
09:49 masak (and we're a really cool company, with two Perl 6 core devs in it.)
09:51 mathw And you're in Sweden, which is slightly inconvenient
09:51 mathw (not for you, obviously)
09:53 * mathw wonders, does being in Sweden make you more cool? Probably.
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09:58 masak from the perspective of Sweden, Sweden is not that cool. unless you mean literally cool.
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10:01 nwc10 from the perspsective of outside Sweden, Sweden generally seems to be cool.
10:03 nwc10 although it's not actually clear what or why. :-)
10:03 cosimo_ well, ABBA to start with
10:03 nwc10 that's almost like saying that Austria is cool because it has Franz Joseph, Sissy and Mozart
10:04 nwc10 which they are very big on.
10:04 nwc10 but are a little bit history
10:04 cosimo_ roxette, a nice princess, cheap meat, ikea kjøttboller
10:04 nwc10 and very dead. Unlike the (former) members of Abba
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10:05 cosimo_ not to mention karolinska institute and chalmers
10:06 FROGGS and salmiak "sweets"?
10:06 masak hehe, "kjøttboller" is the Danish spelling :P
10:06 masak also, salmiak totally rocks.
10:06 FROGGS >.<
10:06 FROGGS like roxette?
10:07 * FROGGS hates roxette
10:07 cosimo_ unnskyld
10:07 masak ;)
10:07 masak FROGGS: I've never had a big crush on Roxette. they're OK, I guess. but nothing special.
10:08 FROGGS the problem is that I was forced to hear it in my childhood
10:08 FROGGS the radio stations played it like every 30mins
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10:08 FROGGS sleeping in my car *shudder*
10:09 jnthn morning...ish... o/
10:10 FROGGS morning jnthnish
10:10 FROGGS (you are not yourself when you are hungry)
10:10 masak FROGGS: yeah... "sleeping in my car" is cringeful.
10:10 jnthn Well, it's more coffee that's needed...
10:12 FROGGS jnthn: that is the right attitude :o)
10:12 FROGGS masak: exactly ó.ò
10:14 jnthn Wow, those lyrics are...uh...to the point...
10:15 masak and the video leaves nothing to the imagination.
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10:37 mathw masak: I suspect if I actually lived in Sweden I'd quickly find out that it's not so cool as it seems from the outside.
10:38 masak let's just say I seldom hear people exclaim "oh, it's so cool to live here in Sweden!" :P
10:38 masak except perhaps if their basis of comparison is Syria or Somalia.
10:40 mathw lots of places are better than Syria or Somalia at the moment
10:40 mathw Even the parts of England currently under water
10:41 masak yeah.
10:41 mathw despite what our gutter press would have you believe
10:42 jnthn Ugh...the English press...
10:43 mathw quite
10:43 mathw not my favourite part of living here
10:43 jnthn Yeah, that's one thing I certainly don't miss.
10:43 mathw I generally attempt to ignore it, but that's not always possible
10:44 mathw And some things have to be actively countered
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10:55 tadzik mathw: .NET? Around here, it's practically impossible to find something other than C++ :)
11:02 masak tadzik: that's because Sweden has sold out to Microsoft and is their obedient lapdog.
11:02 tadzik :)
11:02 masak tadzik: similarly, in Norway it's mostly Java.
11:02 tadzik I'd imagine Norway would sell _everything_ for some Sun...
11:03 tadzik otoh, they seem unimpressed when the sun is there :)
11:05 masak when the sun is there, it's time to Gå På Tur.
11:07 mathw Nottingham seems to be .NET land, but that might be my perceptions because of what recruiters see on my LinkedIn profile
11:07 mathw there is a fair bit of PHP around, but I'm not that desperate
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11:11 tadzik I always thought England is a magical Perl wonderland, but maybe that's just London
11:11 jnthn Not to mention that PHP pretty much promises you'll be doing web dev...
11:13 masak getting some warnings when I run Rakudo's Configure.pl: https://gist.github.com/masak/8999395
11:13 masak haven't looked at the cause, but I think warnings from a Configure.pl script are suspect by default.
11:14 masak it's $nqp_config{'nqp::version'} that's undefined.
11:14 masak and then $nqp_config{"moar::dll"}
11:15 mathw jnthn: yeah that's not even why I avoid it
11:15 mathw tadzik: there's a lot of Perl in London. Really seriously a lot.
11:15 masak yeah, turns out I couldn't `make` either, because it's missing NQP.
11:16 masak needed to add --gen-nqp to the Configure.pl script.
11:16 masak ...now I'm getting an error instead :(
11:16 jnthn masak: What're you trying to get?
11:16 masak help! https://gist.github.com/masak/8999434
11:16 * masak tries with a clean Rakudo repo
11:17 jnthn I have to follow a link??!
11:17 jnthn masak: You need to --gen-moar also
11:17 jnthn masak: Or specify a --prefix=...
11:17 jnthn masak: To where you installed Moar
11:17 masak oh ffs
11:17 masak used to be the Configure.pl script told me what was missing.
11:17 masak now it just errors out? :(
11:18 jnthn That is unfortunate
11:18 jnthn otoh, README does give you the exact thing you need... :)
11:18 * masak submits rakudobug
11:18 jnthn But nobody reads that, of course :P
11:18 masak I'm a core dev, I don't read the README! :P
11:19 nwc10 that's kind of rule 0 of programming - no one reads the docs
11:19 nwc10 and some people have a rule 1, of not reading the error message either
11:19 masak anyway, I think this is orthogonal.
11:19 nwc10 but those folks should be issued with an Etch-A-Sketch
11:19 masak I *did* read the error message, and it sucked.
11:19 mathw LTA error message is LTA
11:19 nwc10 yes, that's a legitimate bug
11:19 nwc10 or, I agree, that's a bug.
11:20 jnthn It did say:
11:20 jnthn ===SORRY!===
11:20 jnthn No suitable MoarVM (moar executable) found using the --prefix
11:20 masak yeah. that's not enough.
11:20 jnthn OK, what should it have said?
11:20 jnthn "(Maybe you want --gen-moar?)"
11:20 masak I mean, you're *intended* to use Configure.pl in a certain way, and the error message doesn't give enough hints as to how.
11:20 masak jnthn: yes, something like that.
11:21 masak whatever message would have saved me a trip to #perl6 for help would have been fine ;)
11:22 mathw Welcome to the Rakudo Perl 6 configuration system
11:22 mathw Press 1 to gen-moar
11:22 mathw Press 2 to gen-parrot
11:22 masak ;)
11:22 tadzik :)
11:22 mathw Press 3 if you're really patient and want to gen-jvm
11:22 jnthn masak: Like, "(Maybe you should RTFM?)" :D
11:23 FROGGS Press * to talk to an operator
11:23 FROGGS ( Hi, Mr. Tight And is speaking... )
11:23 masak jnthn: I'm all for reading the docs too, it's not that.
11:23 tadzik yeah, I'd just keep pressing 0 until I can talk to a human :)
11:23 masak jnthn: but a decent bet is that 'perl Configure.pl && make && make install' works in a project.
11:23 mathw I've actually written those telephone menu systems
11:24 jnthn mathw: Those systems are even more fun when they're not in your first language :)
11:24 masak jnthn: and the current Configure.pl breaks that expectation, without giving an error message that guides the user right.
11:24 mathw Designing the options and flow is really hard
11:24 * FROGGS throws a num pad at mathw
11:24 masak jnthn: think of it as saving or losing all the other potential Rakudo users that happened to take the same path as I did.
11:24 masak jnthn: (and who don't know to go to #perl6 for help, or check the README)
11:25 masak redundancy is a good thing here.
11:26 mathw FROGGS: it's highly unlikely you've used one of mine, unless you're a Special Constable or you are unlucky enough to work for companies who use a certain automated sickness notification system
11:26 dalek nqp: 1658541 | jnthn++ | Configure.pl:
11:26 dalek nqp: Give a hint about --gen-moar when no moar is found
11:26 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/16585410c9
11:27 mathw and who weren't particularly fond of listening to feedback on their design, so never listened to us saying 'you know, the chance any given company has two employees with the same date of birth is pretty high'
11:27 jnthn masak: Hopefully 1658541 helps a little
11:28 masak jnthn++
11:28 masak ok, resolving the rakudobug.
11:28 jnthn masak: Does a straight "perl Configure.pl" with no options say something sane, ooc?
11:28 mathw that might be the first time I've seen an all-numeric git hash
11:28 masak jnthn: dunno, didn't try that.
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11:29 jnthn Hm
11:29 masak jnthn: lemme try with a clean rakudo.
11:29 jnthn C:\consulting\rakudo>perl Configure.pl
11:29 jnthn No suitable nqp executables found! Please specify some --backends, or a --prefix that contains nqp-{p,j,m} executables
11:30 jnthn I suspect that one can be more awesome.
11:30 masak aye.
11:30 masak because I did specify --backends=moar
11:30 masak and when that didn't work, I thought to specify --gen-nqp
11:31 masak and when *that* didn't work, I lost my patience and started kvetching here. :)
11:31 jnthn ugh, yeah, just --backends=moar has a bad failure mode.
11:32 masak aye. it has warnings about undef values.
11:32 masak &
11:35 sisar joined #perl6
11:35 sisar o/
11:35 sisar MoarVM build fail : https://gist.github.com/Siddhant/8999646 Thoughts ?
11:36 jnthn Well, that's a new one...
11:36 sisar I'm on Cygwin, 32-bit
11:36 jnthn sisar: Platform?
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11:36 jnthn Oh.
11:36 sisar oh wait, 32-bit ain't supported ?
11:37 jnthn 32-bit seems to have problems in some places, but not all. 32-bit Linux x86 seems to work out fine, for example
11:37 jnthn Looking at the error, it's actually libuv that seems to run into trouble.
11:38 jnthn sisar: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/issues/845 is the libuv issue
11:38 * sisar looks
11:39 jnthn Which seems to boil down to, "Cygwin doesn't really provide pthreads"
11:41 sisar jnthn: yeah. Well, that's disappointing. -(
11:46 jnthn sisar: Yeah. I guess the best hope is that somebody will want Node.js on Cygwin enough to do the libuv port in aid of that...
11:46 jnthn sisar: For building it there, anyway
11:47 jnthn sisar: I suspect the best way to get Moar usable from Cygwin will be to build a native Windows binary and just make it available in the path, so it can be used from cygwin.
11:47 sisar jnthn: hmm, I can try that.
11:49 sisar jnthn: Well, i get a Parrot build fail too ! https://gist.github.com/Siddhant/8999784
11:55 moritz \o
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12:15 timotimo o\
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12:34 masak /o\
12:36 moritz |o|
12:37 timotimo lol
12:41 FROGGS \o\
12:42 timotimo meeeeh, reading out the size of every single bucket in every single page is likely going to take minutes if not hours
12:42 timotimo i should somewhat randomly sample.
12:44 jnthn In gen2?
12:44 timotimo yes
12:44 jnthn The pages are sized?
12:44 jnthn So all the objects on a given page have the same size
12:44 timotimo the size bucket of 32 to 39 has 1423 completely filled pages
12:45 timotimo oh?
12:45 jnthn Oh, yeah
12:45 jnthn You're right, they may vary a bit
12:45 jnthn I thought it was organizzed so the sizes would be more like 33..40 though?
12:46 jnthn So each 8 byte increment gets non-wasting...
12:46 timotimo oh?
12:46 timotimo well, that may very well be
12:46 timotimo i didn't check especially thoroughly
12:46 timotimo that makes a whole lot more sense than having 32-40
12:47 perigrin http://www.yapcna.org/yn2014/talks/tag/perl6 # just gonna mention the deadline is tomorrow at midnight EST
12:47 perigrin util++
12:47 timotimo yes, you're right
12:47 jnthn timotimo: OK, good.
12:47 timotimo should i still go ahead and do the sampling?
12:48 jnthn timotimo: Well, good in so far as "I implemented it sanely". Not so good as in, "no easy win here" :)
12:48 timotimo right
12:48 jnthn timotimo: I think more useful is looking at fragmentation.
12:48 timotimo yeah, i'm doing that
12:48 timotimo i see almost zero fragmentation in my example program, which is not especially carefully designed
12:48 timotimo do you have a suggestion for something that would fragment heavily?
12:49 jnthn Yeah...something that makes loads of objects of a certain size, then stops making them and does other stuff, may well cause it.
12:50 jnthn At the moment it doesn't make any attempt to say, "oh, this entire page is on the freelist, let's free it"
12:51 jnthn But what yo're doing can probably tell us how pressing it is to implement that.
12:51 timotimo yes
12:51 timotimo <3
12:52 timotimo i don't have a metric for how many pages "in between" are empty yet
13:00 timotimo my stuff already helped me find out that the cur_page value isn't being updated at all
13:01 FROGGS yeah
13:01 FROGGS analysis++
13:01 timotimo a truly tremendous oversight! :P
13:02 jnthn timotimo: this:
13:02 jnthn /* The current page number that we're allocating in. */
13:02 jnthn MVMuint32 cur_page;
13:02 jnthn That appears to be completely unused.
13:02 timotimo i use it! :)
13:02 timotimo in my analysis
13:03 jnthn Yeah but...the rest of the VM doesn't :)
13:03 timotimo aaw
13:03 jnthn I suspect it's fossil
13:03 timotimo well, we can save 32 bits * 32 buckets if we get rid of it!
13:04 jnthn Every little helps :)
13:04 dalek rakudo/nom: c50a2e8 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/Makefile-Moar.in:
13:04 dalek rakudo/nom: do not touch ./perl6-m, only the one in install/
13:04 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Because touching the runner in the rakudo build directory means triggering a rebuild
13:04 dalek rakudo/nom: of lib.pm, Test.pm and Pod/to/Text.pm.
13:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c50a2e8863
13:04 jnthn timotimo: Feel free to remove it, anyways, given it seems unrequired.
13:05 jnthn timotimo: If we don't find something in the free list, then it's clear that the "current" page to try allocating on is the final one.
13:05 jnthn So num_pages is sufficient.
13:05 timotimo i suppose i can make it work without that attribute somewhat easily
13:06 timotimo but first, i have other stuff to do with this
13:07 FROGGS perl6-m -e 'say IO::Path::Win32.new("foo\\bar") ~~ "foo/bar/".IO.path'
13:07 FROGGS True
13:07 FROGGS p: say IO::Path::Win32.new("foo\\bar") ~~ "foo/bar/".IO.path
13:07 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:08 timotimo i shall sample the REPRs there as well, aye?
13:08 jnthn timotimo: aye, that'll tell us what's in there
13:14 moritz FROGGS: .path is enough, no need for .IO
13:15 FROGGS moritz: but it feels better to use .IO somehow :o)
13:15 moritz FROGGS: but eventually it'll be wrong
13:16 moritz FROGGS: the problem with a path-based API is that it's prone to race conditions
13:16 FROGGS I am pushing the added IO::Path.ACCEPTS when no p-spectests fail
13:16 moritz FROGGS: so the long term plan is to use .IO to offer a file-handle based API
13:16 FROGGS ahh, I see
13:16 moritz which won't be as convenient, but will be safer for some scenarios
13:22 hoelzro r: 'ш'.encode('latin-1').decode('utf-8')
13:22 camelia rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: ( no output )
13:22 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379: OUTPUT«Lossy conversion to single byte encoding␤  in method encode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6281␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:22 hoelzro r: say 'ш'.encode('latin-1').decode('utf-8')
13:22 camelia rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«?␤»
13:22 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379: OUTPUT«Lossy conversion to single byte encoding␤  in method encode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6281␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:22 hoelzro what *should* that output?
13:23 jnthn I prefer the JVM/Moar answer
13:23 hoelzro I think that a :strict option would be nice
13:23 jnthn Yeah, same
13:24 moritz no, :strict shoudl be the default
13:24 moritz there could be a :lax option which uses a replacement character
13:24 hoelzro r:  "\x[82]".encode('latin-1').decode('utf-8')
13:24 camelia rakudo-jvm 1ce379, rakudo-moar 1ce379: ( no output )
13:24 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379: OUTPUT«Malformed UTF-8 string␤␤  in method decode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:5117␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:24 hoelzro moritz: I agree that it should be the deafult
13:24 hoelzro *default
13:24 hoelzro r:  say "\x[82]".encode('latin-1').decode('utf-8')
13:24 camelia rakudo-moar 1ce379: OUTPUT«?␤»
13:24 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 1ce379: OUTPUT«�␤»
13:24 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1ce379: OUTPUT«Malformed UTF-8 string␤␤  in method decode at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:5117␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:24 jnthn moritz, hoelzro: That's a fine default until the day you meet real world data that sucks... :/
13:24 hoelzro ok, now *that's* interesting
13:25 hoelzro that's what the problem was with URI
13:25 moritz jnthn: then you start to set the :lax flag :-)
13:25 hoelzro I'm looking to create an NQP test for this
13:25 hoelzro but I don't know what the results *should* be
13:25 jnthn hoelzro: The "malformed UTF-8 string" error doesn't make a lot of sense there
13:25 jnthn p: say "\x[82]".encode('latin-1')
13:25 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<82>␤»
13:26 hoelzro yeah, I think Parrot's doing something stupid there
13:26 jnthn Oh
13:26 jnthn No, it's right to complain I think.
13:26 jnthn 82 is not a valid UTF-8 sequence.
13:26 jnthn Well
13:26 FROGGS everything > 0x80 is invalid, yes
13:26 jnthn But is it valid in latin-1?
13:27 FROGGS p: say "\x[82]"
13:27 camelia rakudo-parrot 1ce379: OUTPUT«‚␤»
13:27 moritz isn'T every byte squence valid Latin-1?
13:27 jnthn moritz: Well, it's more about if Unicode codepoint 0x82 has a mapping in latin-1
13:27 jnthn "\x[82]" is a string so we're clearly talking Unicode codepoint there.
13:28 moritz I kinda thought the first 256 Codepoints map directly to the same byte values in Latin-1
13:28 moritz seems I'm wrong though; Latin-1 has holes
13:28 timotimo the first 127 surely do :P
13:29 jnthn moritz: No, the mapping ain't that simple
13:29 hoelzro I think that 0x82 encoding to 0x82 in latin-1 is the bad behavior, right?
13:29 jnthn U+0082 is Break Permitted Here in Unicode.
13:30 moritz it seems that windows-1252 (a latin-1 superset) is closer to what I though
13:31 jnthn And looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_8859-1 suggests that this character doesn't have a latin-1 representation.
13:31 jnthn hoelzro: So yes, codepoint 0x82 encoding to latin-1 byte 0x82 seems wrong
13:33 hoelzro ok, good
13:34 jnthn I agree we should support strict and lax modes for encoding/decoding
13:34 jnthn I'll leave TimToady++ to decide the default :)
13:35 nwc10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_8859-1 isn't totally helpful, as it seems to omit the C0 and C1 control codes from its table.
13:36 jnthn nwc10: C0 and C1? It defines those as À and Á
13:38 nwc10 no, these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wi​ki/C0_and_C1_control_codes
13:39 jnthn nwc10: Oh. :/
13:39 jnthn nwc10: So if you include those, 0x82 is valid...
13:42 TimToady I count latin-1 as the first 256 codepoints of Unicode, and I don't really seem much problem in doing so
13:43 TimToady *see
13:43 jnthn TimToady: So...all the clever mapping code in https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/​blob/master/src/strings/latin1.c is bogus?
13:44 jnthn "clever" :)
13:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 6a6a5bd | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/IO.pm:
13:44 dalek rakudo/nom: add IO::Path.ACCEPTS
13:44 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:44 dalek rakudo/nom: A path will match another path if their volume/directories/file portion matches.
13:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6a6a5bd64b
13:45 TimToady yeah, I think it's bogus
13:46 jnthn That seems to mean we get to delete code :)
13:46 timotimo \o/
13:46 jnthn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lat​in-1_Supplement_(Unicode_block) seems to agree also
13:50 nwc10 jnthn: is that mapping Windows 1252?
13:52 jnthn nwc10: Oh...hmm
13:52 jnthn nwc10: That is entirely possible.
13:53 jnthn nwc10: Which I guess is fine to support but...it should not be claiming to be latin-1...
13:54 nwc10 unless of course you are HTML 5, IIRC
13:54 TimToady .oO(ISO-8859-MS)
13:55 timotimo m)
13:57 mathw yeah HTML 5 says that if something declares latin-1 parse it as windows-1252
13:57 mathw I think I'd've been tempted to say if it claims to be anything that's not unicode, insult them, but I suppose backwards compatibility might have suffered
13:58 TimToady ick
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13:59 TimToady and if it doesn't claim to be anything, it's probably shift-jis  :P
14:00 nwc10 I find it utterly ick too.
14:00 TimToady so if it's ambiguous, perhaps we should simply disallow 'latin-1', and require clarity
14:01 TimToady it's either that, or swing our Bat of Cultural Imperialism one way or the other
14:01 nwc10 actually, it's worse. HTML 5 "requires that documents advertised as ISO-8859-1 actually be parsed with the Windows-1252 encoding."
14:02 TimToady AGHHH!
14:02 nwc10 not "Latin 1", but a declaratio of a *real* ISO standard.
14:02 nwc10 yes. urge to kill.
14:03 TimToady well, maybe we've lost that battle, and need ascii-256 or so
14:04 * TimToady wonders which circle in hell is reserved for people who write standards...
14:04 nwc10 hopefully not a round one.
14:05 moritz probably depends on the standard
14:05 * moritz doesn't wish hell for the guy who standardized JSON
14:06 * TimToady wishes JSON allowed trailing commas
14:06 * timotimo too
14:07 * moritz too, but that's not a hell-banning reason
14:07 sjn maybe the upper levels of heck then? :)
14:08 TimToady most of us at least deserve some penance in purgatory :)
14:09 * sjn has always had a thing for limbo
14:09 * TimToady was never very good at it
14:10 moritz is the purgatory still in the newe testament?
14:11 TimToady not in the protestant canon
14:12 TimToady dunno about the NT apocrypha
14:13 * TimToady always thought of it as an accretion that went along with indulgences
14:16 TimToady my basic feeling is that, if HTML-5 wants to lie to itself, that HTML-5's problem, and not ours (unless we're writing an HTML-5 module)
14:17 TimToady so unless the whole industry buys the lie, we should distinguish iso-8859-1 from windows-1252
14:18 TimToady (and latin-1 with it)
14:18 mathw There's a certain rightness to saying "Well it said it was ISO-8859-1, if it was lying that's not our problem"
14:20 TimToady then there's all the iso-8859-1 that's really iso-8859-15
14:22 arnsholt jnthn: Will the JVM invoke ops DTRT if I use an ARG_OBJ (with corresponding Integer object) to invoke a function that takes a native int?
14:23 masak sjn: I've always had a thing for limbo, too!
14:23 masak a place to chill.
14:23 masak I imagine if I brought a few books...
14:24 jnthn arnsholt: As in, Java Integer? No
14:24 timotimo masak: http://dresdencodak.com/2010/05/0​5/a-degenerate-prepares-for-hell/ <- :)
14:25 masak timotimo: that must have been where I got that from, yes :)
14:26 arnsholt Darn. That'll complicate the callback logic a bit, but nothing more code can't solve =)
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14:41 mathw arnsholt: nothing can't be solved by more layers of abstraction! Nothing!
14:42 masak is there an RT ticket for lines() not being lazy, or for loops not being lazy or something in that area not being lazy?
14:42 sftp joined #perl6
14:42 * moritz is pretty sure tehre is at least one
14:42 masak can't demonstrate it on the evalbot, I think.
14:42 masak but it stands out as a rather big, long-standing unsolved annoyance.
14:43 * masak tries making it a while loop
14:43 lowpro30_ joined #perl6
14:43 masak yup, that's a feasible workaround.
14:44 masak replace 'for $*IN.lines { ... }' with 'while defined( $_ = $*IN.get ) { ... }'
14:44 * masak goes hunting for the RT ticket
14:44 masak https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=112716
14:45 masak filed in May 2012.
14:45 arnsholt mathw: Apart from having too many abstraction layers =)
14:45 mathw didn't I see something about being able to say "eager for" recently, or was I imagining it?
14:45 mathw arnsholt: nonsense! you can abstract away from that!
14:45 arnsholt =D
14:46 moritz mathw: there's a difference between for being eager, and for eagerly evaluating its input list before starting to iterate
14:46 masak oh, so it's the workahead that causes the problem.
14:47 masak and pmichaud was working on a fix two years ago, two days after the bug was filed.
14:47 masak wonder what happened to that fix...
14:48 mathw moritz: oh yes, of course.
14:48 mathw moritz: I have a cold that's rapidly getting worse, my brain's not working very well
14:48 masak mathw: no, it's just that these things are tricky :)
14:49 moritz tricky to implement, too
14:55 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 31275d4 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
14:55 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
14:55 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/31275d49b2
14:55 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 30943a2 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
14:55 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
14:55 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/30943a257f
14:55 dalek perl6-roast-data: 0d6a615 | coke++ | / (3 files):
14:55 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
14:55 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/0d6a6159d5
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14:57 masak [Coke]++ # hero
14:57 TimToady I suppose the first 256 codepoints should be called "UCS-1"  :)
15:00 * [Coke] got to see Alton Brown in concert last night. Whee!
15:00 TimToady pity you couldn't hear too
15:02 xinming_ joined #perl6
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15:16 [Coke] thankfully he had a projection screen with words most of the time, so you could follow along.
15:18 PerlJam [Coke]: What is an Alton Brown concert like?
15:18 * PerlJam imagines a live version of his Good Eats show
15:18 logie joined #perl6
15:20 lowpro30 joined #perl6
15:21 PerlJam never mind, google gave me a better idea of it :)
15:30 [Coke] PerlJam: that's a pretty good first approximation, though. ;)
15:37 [Coke] we have no implementations spec testing clean.
15:39 btyler masak: if you've got perl6 time today, perhaps consider taking a look at hoelzro++'s pull against ufo to support multiple backends: https://github.com/masak/ufo/pull/10
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15:45 raydiak morning all
15:47 jnthn o/ raydiak
15:48 raydiak \o jnthn...doing anything incredible today?
15:49 jnthn raydiak: Lots of $dayjob bits right now, but I'll get to Perl 6 later on and continue with the MoarVM IO work. :)
15:50 lizmat joined #perl6
15:51 raydiak :)
16:00 masak btyler: ok, opening it in a tab. might get to it, but no guarantees.
16:03 Alula joined #perl6
16:06 masak hoelzro: interesting use of both a class and a group of roles.
16:06 hoelzro thanks
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16:13 jnthn hoelzro: Well, you should check if it's "may you live in interesting times" interesting before saying thanks :P
16:13 hoelzro jnthn: ah, good point =)
16:13 hoelzro masak: is it that kind of interesting?
16:13 hoelzro I'm always looking for critiques on my Perl 6 style
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16:20 masak hoelzro: it has more moving parts than I would've had, but since it's an improvement I'm going to merge it in.
16:20 hoelzro masak: cool!  how would you have done it?
16:20 masak hoelzro: and if I ever get around to adding my improvements, I'll link you the commit ;)
16:20 hoelzro =)
16:21 masak hoelzro: I would have used a sub instead of a class with a method in it. and a hash of hashes instead of three roles mixed in at runtime.
16:21 dalek ufo: 2a37cef | (Rob Hoelz)++ | bin/ufo:
16:21 dalek ufo: Move backend-specific stuff into roles
16:21 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/2a37ceffce
16:21 dalek ufo: 82067db | (Rob Hoelz)++ | bin/ufo:
16:21 dalek ufo: Use $*EXECUTABLE_NAME instead of perl6
16:21 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/82067db59d
16:21 dalek ufo: c0f2741 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | bin/ufo:
16:21 hoelzro ah
16:21 dalek ufo: Move away from Parrot-specific language
16:21 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/c0f27412b8
16:21 dalek ufo: dc80392 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | bin/ufo:
16:21 dalek ufo: Flesh out JVM role
16:21 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/dc8039203c
16:21 dalek ufo: 05bd121 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | bin/ufo:
16:21 masak hoelzro: pull request merged.
16:21 dalek ufo: Strip out POD before looking for dependency modules
16:21 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/05bd121922
16:21 dalek ufo: a4bd3f4 | (Carl Mäsak)++ | bin/ufo:
16:21 dalek ufo: Merge pull request #10 from hoelzro/master
16:21 dalek ufo:
16:21 dalek ufo: Make ufo work with non-Parrot backends
16:21 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/a4bd3f4696
16:21 hoelzro thank you
16:21 masak sorry for flooding #perl6, didn't think of that ;)
16:23 raydiak is there a way to merge things without flooding?
16:25 jnthn Do it at the command line and --squash, if you don't care for history... ;)
16:25 raydiak ew
16:25 mtk joined #perl6
16:26 PerlJam why ew?
16:26 raydiak makes thing like bisecting difficult if not impossible
16:26 raydiak unless I'm confused
16:26 PerlJam He did qualify it with "if you don't care for history"  :)
16:26 flussence Figure out what the threshold for dalek's "heuristic branch merge" message is, and cross that...
16:27 raydiak indeed he did
16:27 woolfy joined #perl6
16:28 PerlJam .oO( I had to make 23 minor commits so that dalek wouldn't report the 7 "real" commits on channel  )
16:29 raydiak was just wondering...still figuring out how things work around here (and got dalek kicked last time I merged something)
16:30 timotimo haha
16:30 timotimo yeah, dalek tends to do that :)
16:31 jnthn raydiak: Thing is, if you do branches to break things for a while, *not* squashing at merge makes bisecting harder. And unfortunately, there's no --first-parent option to bisect...
16:32 raydiak ah, I see what you mean
16:34 * raydiak will start squashing simple stuff like docs work
16:36 masak there should totally be a --first-parent option to bisect.
16:39 jnthn Yeah...
16:39 dalek nqp: 1235a65 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
16:39 dalek nqp: Introduce .made in favour of .ast, but keep .ast for now
16:39 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/1235a65a5e
16:39 dalek nqp: fb4ffa9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/ (4 files):
16:39 dalek nqp: Change .ast to .made where it seemed appropriate
16:39 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fb4ffa9492
16:39 * jnthn wonders how hard it'd be to write that patch...
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16:43 [Coke] is .ast deprecated?
16:44 xenoterracide joined #perl6
16:45 PerlJam I thought .ast was staying but now there's a .made synonym
16:45 TimToady I don't see much point in keeping both
16:45 jnthn My muscle memory :P
16:46 jnthn But tbh, that only means we keep it in NQP :)
16:47 jnthn There's a lot of code out there using .ast already, though.
16:48 PerlJam .ast really makes sense when you're building a compiler  ;)
16:50 jnthn Yeah.
16:53 dalek ufo: d019a08 | masak++ | bin/ufo:
16:53 dalek ufo: [bin/ufo] turn class/method into nested sub
16:53 dalek ufo:
16:53 dalek ufo: Limits the scope of this subroutine and shows where it belongs.
16:53 dalek ufo:
16:53 dalek ufo: Also put the lexically scoped regexes into the sub, since they're
16:53 dalek ufo: only used from in there.
16:53 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/d019a0842f
16:53 dalek ufo: 0b3a26e | masak++ | bin/ufo:
16:53 dalek ufo: [bin/ufo] replace mixins with hash and attrs
16:53 dalek ufo:
16:53 dalek ufo: Prefer the order of the declarations of this variant. In the
16:53 dalek ufo: previous version, it wasn't clear where the $.target and $.extension
16:53 dalek ufo: methods were coming from.
16:53 dalek ufo:
16:53 dalek ufo: Also, a net removal of 13 lines of code. Neat!
16:53 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/0b3a26e5d3
16:53 masak hoelzro: ^^^
16:53 masak anyway, hoelzro++ for contributing the multi-backend functionality.
16:53 masak oh!
16:53 masak one more thing I meant to do.
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17:01 dalek ufo: a73a527 | masak++ | bin/ufo:
17:01 dalek ufo: [bin/ufo] give an error if running on unknown VM
17:01 dalek ufo:
17:01 dalek ufo: Also replace the 'constant' by 'my' scope modifiers, as the
17:01 dalek ufo: former doesn't seem to work at all in this case. So the check
17:01 dalek ufo: is already being useful!
17:01 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/a73a527444
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17:07 hoelzro masak: thanks for pointing that out!
17:08 masak my pleasure. thanks again for the PR.
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17:11 moritz masak++ # p6 coding again
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17:17 arnsholt jnthn: Another JVM callsite question. I assume that for something with signature (int, num, object), I'll make a callsite {ARG_INT, ARG_NUM, ARG_OBJ} but the object array passed to the invoke op will contain SMOs for all arguments. That right?
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17:19 jnthn arnsholt: No, a Java Integer and Float for the first two
17:19 jnthn arnsholt: In the good cases we can optimize away that boxing.
17:20 arnsholt Ah, neat. Less work for me
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17:23 arnsholt jnthn: Hmm, does it have to be Integer/Float, or are Byte, Short, Long and Double accepted too?
17:23 jnthn Hmmm
17:23 jnthn I think it actually wants Double rather than Float...
17:23 jnthn I guess it casts to unbox
17:23 jnthn I don't know exactly what happens if you (long) a Byte
17:29 arnsholt Right, and maybe Long rather than Integer?
17:29 arnsholt That'd make sense, since we use longs and doubles for numeric types internally
17:30 timotimo i long for a good byte of food right now
17:31 jnthn arnsholt: Yds, sorry, meant Long.
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17:35 dalek nqp: 15869c8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/ (12 files):
17:35 dalek nqp: "past" is now a thing of the ast
17:35 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/15869c89e2
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20:30 timotimo moarvm now has a constant pool for integer values between 0 and 15 inclusive
20:31 timotimo takes the memory usage of perl6-m -e 'say 1' down to ~89 from ~92
20:31 timotimo megabytes*
20:31 lowpro30 joined #perl6
20:32 PerlJam timotimo++ every little bit helps!  :)
20:32 jnthn m: say 89/92
20:32 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6a5b: OUTPUT«0.967391␤»
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20:37 FROGGS good evening
20:38 masak evenin', FROGGS
20:38 timotimo hey FROGGS
20:39 jnthn o/ FROGGS
20:39 FROGGS hey, what a greeting :o)
20:40 timotimo i kind of feel like i've drained my energy resources for the day
20:41 timotimo feel free to entertain me with cool commits, though :)
20:41 FROGGS hmmm, I will probably only send a PR for File::Find to make its tests pass under windows
20:41 FROGGS not very enternainy :/
20:42 dalek ufo: 25c12a6 | masak++ | bin/ufo:
20:42 dalek ufo: [bin/ufo] fix typo
20:42 dalek ufo:
20:42 dalek ufo: itz++
20:42 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/25c12a6b01
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20:49 FROGGS huh, perl6-m builds faster on windows in a vm than on my linux host O.o
20:51 jnthn o.O
20:59 FROGGS it only took 47s for stage parse and on my linux it usually takes 51s
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21:03 lue FROGGS: what's the margin of error for those times? :)
21:03 FROGGS the what? I dont event understand the question :o)
21:05 lue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error
21:05 jnthn FROGGS: Did you applied most holy statistical tests to your results? :P
21:05 lue (don't know if that would help you understand :P)
21:06 FROGGS ummm
21:06 * FROGGS continues smiling :o)
21:06 lue FROGGS: basically, is the difference between 47s and 51s significant, or could that just be within the realm of fluctuating times.
21:07 FROGGS lue: I've perl6-m loads of times on my linux box and the fastest ever was 49s
21:08 FROGGS but I need to rebuild it on both machines soon, so I will have an eye on that
21:08 lue If the slowest VM time is greater than 49s, you'll know the difference isn't too significant :)
21:15 FROGGS the win7 in the vm took 47s where its host takes >49s (without a vm running)
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: ca35ec8 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/IO.pm:
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: cleanup paths to get os specific delimeter
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ca35ec8512
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21:42 FROGGS tadzik: I PR'd you
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22:15 tadzik hmm
22:16 tadzik ok, alright :)
22:16 FROGGS :o9
22:16 tadzik I tagged panda as 2014.01, and will update the submodule in the newer panda
22:16 FROGGS :o) *
22:17 FROGGS cool!
22:17 denisboyun joined #perl6
22:17 tadzik so it still works for people using released rakudo
22:18 dalek panda: 934a4f3 | tadzik++ | ext/File__Find:
22:18 dalek panda: Update File::Find
22:18 dalek panda: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/934a4f3152
22:20 tadzik FROGGS++
22:21 FROGGS now there might only be the STable problem left to fix...
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22:24 jnthn FROGGS: I'm busy on IO things, but I can give you a hint on how to gather some info on what the problem might be there, if you like?
22:24 FROGGS sure I do!
22:25 FROGGS it does not seem to be about augmenting or custom infixes this time btw
22:25 jnthn FROGGS: https://gist.github.com/jnthn/a09d2b3beb70866be1bd
22:25 jnthn Add that patch
22:25 jnthn You can't build Rakudo itself with it applied (it legit triggers this)
22:26 jnthn But you should be able to try going through the Panda build
22:26 jnthn When it blows up, use --ll-exception to get a backtrac
22:26 FROGGS k
22:26 jnthn *backtrace
22:27 colomon joined #perl6
22:27 colomon o/
22:27 vendethiel Is there a binary unpacking syntax in perl ? Could that be done with macros ?
22:29 FROGGS vendethiel: Buf has a method unpack
22:29 raydiak hi colomon
22:30 jnthn o/ colomon
22:30 colomon any excitement in the p6 world today?  I've been awa from the Internets
22:32 jnthn timotimo++ came up with an optimization in Moar that shaved 3MB off Rakudo's base memory
22:32 jnthn And likely has performance benefits too
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22:37 FROGGS jnthn: it might be related to an enum State <...>
22:38 jnthn Hm
22:38 FROGGS jnthn: I will do a lot of testing tomorrow with this
22:38 jnthn Got a backtrace?
22:38 FROGGS yeah
22:38 jnthn Somewhere in EnumHOW?
22:38 FROGGS https://gist.github.com/FR​OGGS/ba492ddbaa876aaf9aed
22:39 FROGGS more in Perl6/Metamodel.moarvm:add_method
22:39 jnthn um, huh
22:39 jnthn That's not the exception we added though...
22:39 FROGGS true
22:41 FROGGS perhaps our added exception got swallowed by a try/CATCH or it happens in a shell("$*EXECUTABLE_NAME[...]
22:41 FROGGS I will play with it tomorrow
22:41 FROGGS and then I will report to you :o)
22:42 jnthn ok :)
22:42 jnthn FROGGS++
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22:58 * raydiak knows better than to ask for opinions on his designs (especially incomplete ones), but must be in a reckless mood today...
22:58 raydiak http://p6doc.cyberuniverses.com/ # is this pleasing or ugly?
22:58 PerlJam It's not ugly.
22:58 PerlJam It looks nice.
22:59 PerlJam Not as colorful as camelia  :)
22:59 raydiak couldn't decide if it's soothingly soft, or bland in that "lukewarm water, spit it out" kinda way :)
23:00 raydiak wasn't sure how colorful/contrasty to go, since it's documentation (local html docs will look like this too, for now)
23:01 lue raydiak: could/should be more colorful (esp. if it goes on the perl6.org domain), but the layout looks great.
23:01 jnthn raydiak: Thanks for looking at making doc.perl6.org more attractive. The search facility stands out a lot better wiht this.
23:02 raydiak jnthn: aye, that was one of the goals
23:03 dalek perl6-roast-data: 9fce7cb | coke++ | / (3 files):
23:03 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
23:03 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/9fce7cbc63
23:03 jnthn raydiak: One thing I note is that the link/heading color scheme is blue, but the rest is green. I wonder (but I'm *not* a designer!) if tweaking the links/heading colors might be nice also.
23:03 jnthn It doesn't look that bad with them different, though.
23:04 raydiak yeah I thought about that...wasn't sure either
23:04 jnthn I'd maybe make the Search word / box a little larger. Or maybe just wider.
23:04 raydiak PerlJam, lue, jnthn: thanks for the input, I'll play with the colors some more
23:05 raydiak I could make it larger, but I'd also like to avoid wrapping...not really happy with how the header looks when it wraps yet
23:05 jnthn What I think might be nice in the end is if we could have a left hand "navigation" area for browsing.
23:05 jnthn So if you're looking at a method in a certain class you see other methods in that class to browse to
23:05 PerlJam aye
23:06 jnthn That's a much bigger thing, though.
23:06 lue raydiak: just steal the pastel color values from perl6.org, no problem :)
23:06 raydiak ah, that would be nice
23:07 PerlJam raydiak++
23:07 raydiak lue: that *would* be a sensible approach, wouldn't it? no wonder it didn't occur to me :)
23:08 * raydiak starts ripping styles from perl6.org
23:09 raydiak (or maybe the whole stylesheet)
23:10 lue IIRC I once tried (and failed) to work on a doc.perl6.org style, and I believe I just modified the base perl6.org stylesheet.
23:12 raydiak it's looking like there are at least several things I can cannibalize from it...also need to merge in parts of the perlcabal.org/syn stylesheet, which is just being linked to directly right now (I'm assuming b/c both use Pod2HTML or something)
23:13 lue yeah, though I'd appreciate a pretter perlcabal.org/syn to come out of this :)
23:13 lue *prettier
23:15 raydiak good idea, would be smart to put all the Pod stuff in its own stylesheet, and perhaps include it with Pod2HTML as a default or something
23:16 lue I don't think the stylesheet is linked to the generation process, but I could be wrong.
23:18 raydiak Pod::To::HTML generates an inline stylesheet, AND links to the perlcabal.org one, whether you want it to or not...hacking on that is probably going to come up real soon
23:18 raydiak so far I've just been overriding it all with higher-precedence CSS rules
23:19 lue raydiak: just so you know, I have a project that I should start working on again real soon (perhaps even right now) to replace our crusty old Pod2HTML generator.
23:21 raydiak lue: I request a way to generate the content without the surrounding head/body/html tags and such...for embedding into other stuff...and a way to choose whether it spits out html or xhtml
23:22 lue I could probably flip a switch between Pod::To::HTML and ::To::XHTML, but I'm not in charge of how the generator(s) themselves work.
23:23 raydiak I didn't know the old one was old and crusty...now I know why it feels crusty :)
23:23 lue The only one who knows anything about the current one is moritz, and that's simply because he's the one who's been hammering it into working condition every once in a while :)
23:24 * lue feels like working on his generator again :)
23:25 raydiak I've been reading it over, it's actually not that bad, except it's meant to only generate whole independent pages...making it hard to integrate into other non-Pod-generated things
23:25 lue My new one, once it works, will require all our current synopses to be converted to pod6 format, that'll be the best part :) [but as moritz requested, I'm not doing that until we have a generator that works]
23:28 raydiak I will hold off directly hacking Pod::To::HTML for a while and see where lue++ goes :)
23:29 raydiak have more than enough on my plate for now anyway...Math::ThreeD's matrix support is still broken, for need of like an hour of my time...and Pray hasn't been touched in like a month, which is sad
23:30 lue raydiak: again, I'm not touching Pod::To::HTML, so go ahead :)
23:30 raydiak oh heck, realizing I never even posted an actual release anouncement on the Pray site :P
23:30 raydiak lue: is your generator not something which would replace it?
23:31 lue raydiak: no, I'm replacing the thing in perl6/mu that pushes all the synopses through the generation process.
23:31 raydiak ah, now I see
23:31 lue If you could make it so I could use Pod::To::HTML from within perl6, instead of resorting to shell() and the like... :P
23:32 Araq joined #perl6
23:32 raydiak lue: that's how it's being done in perl6/doc/htmlify.pl, iirc
23:32 raydiak "that" as in "being used as a module instead of a shell script"
23:33 lue (As an aside, trying perl6-m on my generator, just to get familiar with the generator again, caused it to be Killed by kernel after taking 80% of my memory. I'll complain more once I make the code public.)
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23:34 * raydiak tried to gen the docs w/perl6-m, but is not nearly patient enough
23:34 raydiak it works, just (very) slowly
23:36 lue raydiak: ah, I guess I just didn't see what function in ::HTML I needed to call, I'll look at htmlify.pl more closely in a bit to see how to do it specifically :)
23:39 raydiak lue: it's pod2html, but looks like it's building up a Pod object to pass, not just source text, so it may not be as simple as we'd hope
23:40 lue If it's building up an object to send through the rest of ::HTML, maybe it could be backported to that module? Seems like it'd be useful, I know of two projects that do or would use it :D
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23:43 raydiak I'm hoping it's just a choice, and that there are facilities to do that already...if not, then yes, they certainly should exist
23:44 lue raydiak: it'd be nice if something like that were standardized, but I'm not too familiar with DOC stuff (which is where I'm guessing it would be)
23:44 raydiak well, maybe there isn't yet: https://github.com/perl6/Pod-To-HTML​/blob/master/lib/Pod/To/HTML.pm#L17
23:47 lue I think that comment's more about the internal programming of that module, and less so using the module.
23:47 raydiak *blink*...*reread*...yeah, I suppose I should slow down and carefully read words one at a time :)
23:50 raydiak alright, break time, and then colorfullness, and then we'll see what comes next; thanks lue++ for giving me a few future targets to start aiming at while I'm moving in those directions anyway
23:51 lue no problem :)
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