Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-02-15

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:02 * timotimo doesn't quite know why he thought he would be able to sleep just by lying down and closing his eyes
00:04 timotimo i don't really see a reason why Pod::To::HTML should be any slower on moar than on, say, parrot
00:04 timotimo or use up much more memory
00:04 timotimo :\
00:05 jnthn Things typically use less, but it may hit something odd or pathological.
00:05 lue timotimo: it's my generator, not the ::HTML; it dies during backlinks processing
00:05 timotimo oh, ok
00:05 jnthn lue: Does it run on any backend?
00:06 lue jnthn: still runs fine on parrot, trying perl6-j now
00:06 timotimo just as i laid in bed i wished for a way to get a dump of the partial parse tree when rakudo fails to parse something
00:06 timotimo is that kind of sort of feasible?
00:07 timotimo probably has to do some difficult interaction with the highwater stuff
00:07 [Coke] using the rule debugger?
00:07 jnthn Highwater only tracks how far we got
00:07 timotimo you can't put the rule debugger into Perl6/Grammar ;)
00:07 timotimo and rxtrace is practically useless
00:08 jnthn Fixing rxtrace is probably an easier way to make things better...
00:08 timotimo (especially since if you compile any perl6 program with it, all you get is everything up to compunit)
00:11 raydiak I don't have parrot installed, run the Pod::To::HTML stuff w/JVM...so the comparison I was making was moar vs jvm (perhaps unfair, granted)
00:13 lue jnthn: here's the failing grammar: https://gist.github.com/lue/b99b113e4c82873293d0    It leaks and dies by kernel before the DEBUG() in  TOP  can be called.
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00:14 lue oh, I think I might be backtracking too much in that grammar :) Can't remember how many of those C<regex>s can't be C<token>s
00:15 jnthn Yeah, backtracking in grammars is a sure way to eat memory
00:17 lue waitaminute, what the hell am I doing with '\/' and '\>' and '\»' ‽
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00:20 jnthn 'night, #perl6
00:20 lue ♞ jnthn o/
00:20 lue Huh, changing that to be '/' and such didn't break anything. Somehow.
00:21 * lue doesn't even know how stuff like '>' worked in the first place
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00:25 lue .tell jnthn doing s:g/regex/token/ (as well as removing useless backslashes in single-quoted things) makes it not eat memory on perl6-m anymore, *but* perl6-m doesn't catch nearly as many hits as perl6-p and perl6-j from the parsed files (-p and -j still work as before with the changes)
00:25 yoleaux lue: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
00:27 timotimo Unexpected named parameter 'deserialize_past' passed
00:27 timotimo at gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1938  (/home/timo/perl6/rakudo/../install/languages/nq​p/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:add_load_dependency_task:12)
00:27 timotimo .. huh?
00:27 lue .tell jnthn  for example, the test string "# L<S82/With Frag/QQW LIST-LIKE>" works on perl6-p and perl6-j, but not perl6-m
00:27 yoleaux lue: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
00:31 timotimo ah, that was renamed in nqp, but not in rakudo itself
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00:35 * timotimo lets rakudo catch up on the naming
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00:50 timotimo head too derped to figure out what broke now :|
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00:59 daniel-s Hi there.
01:00 timotimo greetings human
01:00 daniel-s Is there an xml library for perl6?
01:00 timotimo you could parse xml with regex! :D
01:00 daniel-s Something like lxml
01:01 timotimo well, modules.perl6.org has XML, XML::Parser::Tiny and XML::Writer
01:01 timotimo hopefully with some tests to them :)
01:01 lue timotimo: they all have tests :)
01:02 timotimo well, beyond the "try to 'use' the module" test of course ;)
01:04 lue timotimo: you do see the tests medal next to them, right? :)
01:04 timotimo oh
01:04 timotimo now i even understand what the icon is!
01:05 timotimo it's - quite fittingly - a test tube
01:21 timotimo i didn't even know someone made a markov chain module for perl6
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01:44 grondilu One of the reason I don't use the REPL is that the command history is not persistent.  Thus it's simpler for me to use bash's history.  Any plan on creating a .perl6/history?
01:46 lue grondilu: not one that I know of.
02:10 BenGoldberg TimDoady: Does this code look familiar to you? http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Pars​ing/Shunting-yard_algorithm#Perl ;)
02:10 geekosaur dowdy doady? :p
02:10 BenGoldberg oops
02:11 BenGoldberg TimToady :)
02:11 * BenGoldberg doesn't look at what he's typing
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02:25 TimToady BenGoldberg: yeah, that looks vaguely familiar for some reason... :)
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02:46 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
02:52 raydiak okay, I added perl6.org-ish boxes and colors, and made search wider and fluid...looking better?
02:52 raydiak http://p6doc.cyberuniverses.com/
02:53 raydiak s/fluid/liquid/
02:53 raydiak (or whatever the kids call it these days)
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03:15 dalek doc: 41a7a00 | raydiak++ | / (7 files):
03:15 dalek doc: Add colorful shininess
03:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/41a7a00aab
03:17 lue raydiak: looks good, though my silly and perhaps untrustworthy brain thinks green & yellow are too close to each other on the spectrum to be the only significant colors for most of the page :P
03:18 lue (if/when a LHS/RHS navigation box happens, it would of course take up the blue Perl6 color)
03:19 raydiak lue: the blue I left on the links is meant to help with that some, but yes it will get easier to balance many colors when there are more boxes to color :)
03:19 lue Or maybe my brain's "yech!" alarm wants the background of the main box to be lighter yellow instead of white...
03:20 lue raydiak: I did notice that the blue links helped out a bit there :)
03:21 lue But definitely raydiak++ for a making a pleasing layout (or any kind of layout for that matter) :D
03:21 raydiak I was thinking about making the search box blue...
03:22 lue I can see that being a possibility.
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03:23 raydiak I didn't think people would like having the whole content area background be yellow...perhaps if it was a *very* pale sunny color, but it's pushing the limits of some peoples tolerances for warm colors
03:24 * raydiak would personally object to having to stare at urine-colored docs :)
03:24 lue yeah, I could see that too. I'm just trying to come up with little ideas to make my brain like the coloration more :) .
03:24 raydiak I certainly see what you mean...will meditate on it some more
03:24 lue I'm finding it difficult to imagine possible color-balancing solutions with green and yellow already on the page. Maybe it's just that I gravitate towards more red/blue colors, who knows.
03:25 raydiak tomorrow is "clean up the construction dust" time, so I'll probably make some more little tweaks still while I'm in there...so your feedback is still pertinent
03:26 raydiak I guess I just shy away from red mostly, and I thought blue was just so over-done as most peoples favorite color
03:26 lue I'll probably play with the colors myself, merely "visualizing" it doesn't seem to help :P
03:27 lue raydiak: my main issue is that I can't think of a good way to put either red or blue next to the existing colors without lacking color from the other end of the spectrum :)
03:29 raydiak I wouldn't think any of this could go together, but it mostly seems to work for perl6.org somehow
03:29 raydiak probably b/c that site has all the content split up into smaller boxes, no single one is most dominant
03:29 lue yeah :)
03:30 lue One thing I notice is that the headers in particular still feel very much like the plaintext style, but I'm sure that's not so hard to fix.
03:31 raydiak you mean the section headings, or the global header?
03:32 lue section headings, still looks like the same blue aliased fonts.
03:33 raydiak yes, I didn't change anything in there yet
03:34 raydiak though if they are aliased, that's your system :)
03:35 lue what font are they even...?
03:36 raydiak I don't even try to specify a certain font, just font-family, which your browsers chooses something appropriate for
03:36 lue Wow, helvetica is ugly
03:36 raydiak so they are font-family: sans-serif in the CSS
03:36 lue I saw font-family: helvetica, sans-serif
03:37 raydiak ah, must be coming from one of the other parts I didn't get to merging into the main stylesheet yet
03:37 raydiak like the perlcabal one, or the inline one being added by Pod::To::HTML
03:37 lue my normal sans-serif font looks just fine by the way :)
03:38 lue "Inherited from body#___top"
03:38 lue raydiak: ^ that's where the helvetica, sans-serif declaration comes from, it seems
03:39 raydiak no, that's where it is inherited from (a parent element)
03:39 lue perl.css:6 actually (looking at the less useful part it seems)
03:39 raydiak ah, yes
03:39 raydiak that's the perlcabal one
03:39 raydiak one of those nasty things pod2html forces on us
03:40 raydiak will fix (probably tomorrow)
03:40 lue I get the sense Pod::To::HTML should perhaps not be giving default stylesheets :)
03:40 lue (not inline anyway)
03:40 raydiak I get the feeling it's something that got pasted in and probably was never meant for long-term reuse
03:41 raydiak I mean, it inherently breaks local docs if you aren't on the net, for one
03:41 lue yeah. If/when you get to hacking on that module, I wouldn't mind if it disappeared all of a sudden :) [others might, though...]
03:43 raydiak until I have a more clear idea of what other ramifications that might have, I'll probably just add a :!css flag or something to the pod2html sub
03:43 lue seems like the less destructive choice, yes :)
03:44 lue One more thing: If the page is shorter than your browser, the red box at the bottom just stops. Could probably be fixed with even a border running along the bottom, though I don't know how you'd prefer things to look ultimately.
03:44 raydiak good catch, I didn't happen across a page that short
03:45 lue substr is one such page :)
03:45 raydiak haha maybe on your fancy expensive monitor
03:46 * raydiak does most of his hacking on a half-decade-old 13" laptop with no hard drive :P
03:46 lue Also, I should think a small Camelia picture needs to be in the header at some point :)
03:46 raydiak definitely agree
03:47 raydiak I also think replacing "search" with some looking glass icon would be a step up
03:48 raydiak as long as you have a bigger screen than I, does the search box get weird-looking long at full width?
03:49 lue Nah, I never really thought "wow, that's big" /me will take a picture of what he sees...
03:49 raydiak lue++ # lots of helpful feedback
03:50 raydiak suppose if I were smart I'd try zooming out...but you can't rely on that to be too terribly accurate in many cases
03:52 lue raydiak: this is what I see: http://i.imgur.com/9GuTc67.png
03:53 raydiak oh...need to set background-color on the input box :P
03:53 raydiak not supposed to have a grey rectangle there :)
03:54 raydiak it is a little long, but I guess if you have the width, it doesn't look too terrible overall...
03:55 lue raydiak: as long as it feels like it's on the right-hand side (as opposed of "everywhere but the title"), I don't think it's that bad.
03:55 lue s/of/to/
03:56 raydiak the whole thing including label is set to 40% of it's container, so should always be somewhat right of the horizontal center, unless you hit the min-width:18em
03:56 raydiak nevertheless, a max-width:40em or something might be good
03:57 lue Actually, I think a good metric would be "is the search box wider than the main content box?" :)
03:58 raydiak you code up the css for that w/out JS or non-compliant browser hacks, and I'll...be surprised :)
03:59 lue I like the search box being normal like that (unless of course you have a better color scheme for it ☺). Feels like search boxes should only be colored differently if white doesn't show up as a major color of the page (e.g. white-on-black coloring), but that's just me.
04:00 raydiak yeah blue may or may not look good like I talked about earlier, but the last thing I meant when I mentioned it was how you have a light grey rectangle in the middle of the otherwise-white box
04:01 lue Huh, that might've been my system, or perhaps even a monitor weirdness(!)
04:02 raydiak you took your screenshot with a camera? ;)
04:03 lue No, but sometimes my cable's signal gets interfered with and bleeding happens. I noticed that not realizing you were talking about that and it's gone now, after jiggling the cable.
04:03 raydiak I'm sure it's still there, just harder to see
04:03 raydiak it's defaulting to the default color of controls on your system, b/c I forgot to set it to white explicitly
04:04 raydiak didn't notice b/c input boxes are pure white on my end, but can't at all rely on that
04:04 lue I get #FFFFFF now, at least
04:04 raydiak huh
04:04 raydiak for the input itself?
04:04 lue It was #FCFCFC before
04:04 raydiak oh, if you're still looking at it on my server, I already changed it
04:05 raydiak it's live on doc.perl6.org now, too
04:05 lue yeah, #FFFFFF is from your server, #FCFCFC is from the picture I took.
04:05 raydiak (w/out the little tweaks I'm making as we talk)
04:06 raydiak I also added a (still generous) max-width to it
04:11 raydiak there, fixed the footer problem by just making it a normal box insetad of bleeding it off the edge
04:11 raydiak looks better that way anyway, imo
04:12 lue looks good :)
04:22 dalek doc: d5fc7b6 | raydiak++ | / (2 files):
04:22 dalek doc: We're using fixed width; may as well center it
04:22 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d5fc7b6075
04:22 dalek doc: e9bfb43 | raydiak++ | / (7 files):
04:22 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' into shiny - catch up template changes
04:22 raydiak uh...heh...I really borked something
04:22 * raydiak still does not like squashing commits
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04:24 raydiak all the stuff that just got dalek kicked was stuff I had previously squashed at some point, and something I did made it all appear anyway...maybe I didn't squash at the right step or something
04:25 raydiak methinks they were still unsquashed in my fork when I did another merge
04:31 raydiak also noticing that an empty commit message on a merge does not actually abort as it claims
04:37 raydiak totally OT: anyone have experience using windex on their glasses? just got them a few weeks ago so idk, and was going to clean them, but someone told me the fumes from cleaner not meant for eyeglasses will harm your eyes or something
04:37 raydiak not sure if I buy it
04:38 geekosaur not that likely, but it can remove protective or anti-glare coatings
04:39 geekosaur that said, ammonia is a good thing to keep far away from your eyes
04:40 raydiak didn't get any of the coatings...guess I'll give it a shot
04:41 raydiak what does ammonia do to your eyes? dry them out?
04:42 geekosaur not sure offhand. it's generally not very good for membranes and such though
04:42 geekosaur at the very least it'll be strongly irritating
04:44 raydiak well, I'm not blind yet...
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04:45 geekosaur just because your body's mostly made of things with a lot of amino groups does not mean ammonia is good for it :p
04:46 raydiak but they look so close, especially with smudged glasses...
04:46 geekosaur they are close. just not close enough :p
04:47 raydiak I think I'll take your word for that one...I don't have to learn *everything* the hard way :)
04:51 geekosaur (organic chemistry is fun! as long as it's not taking place on/in your body...)
04:52 raydiak I saw a book on that once...so mandifferent little symbols...worse than p6, iirc
04:52 raydiak *many different
04:53 lue DNA thinks arsenic is close enough to phosphorous, for instance :)
04:54 geekosaur most chemistry does, actually. at least as far as putting it together. taking it back apart, not so much, whch is the problem
04:54 raydiak ouch...keep arsenic away from my DNA, noted
04:55 geekosaur keep it away period. the dna part isn't what kills you, it's that adenosine triarsenate can't be disassembled
04:56 geekosaur since adenosine triphosphate is what provides energy inside a cell, and arsenic is all too willing to displace the phosphorus, this is a bit of a problem
04:58 raydiak without knowing much about chemistry or biology, all I can say is that sounds like bad news
04:59 geekosaur (short version: cellular processes break a phosphate group off of atp, send the adp back to be recycled into atp, and use the phosphate to do stuff. this does not work if an arsenate snuck in place of the phosphate, which it does very readily)
05:00 lue geekosaur: I heard arsenic was bad because of DNA, good to hear it's more specifically issues with ATP.
05:01 geekosaur well, it's not good for dna, but you don't typically live long enough for it to get into the dna
05:01 geekosaur but it has the same holds-on-too-tight issue in dna, which means dna doesn't unzip any more and the cell can't reproduce if somehow it manages to remain functional after the atp is corrupted
05:01 raydiak hm...bad news indeed...something along the lines of "suffocate your cells" if I understand
05:02 geekosaur exactly
05:02 geekosaur and ithappens fast enough that you don't generally reach the dna version of it before your cells die
05:03 raydiak geez, wish I could stay now, it's getting interesting :) but gotta run atm...nice chattin!
05:03 geekosaur lue was probably hearing about the claim of a bacterium that had found a way to survive in arsenic, which was only partially true (and the claim that it had found a way to survive arsenic getting into the dna was also false)
05:04 geekosaur (but it only reached that point because it had found a way to keep from choking on corrupted atp)
05:04 lue geekosaur: I think I may have heard it around that time, though I didn't learn about the "infects DNA" part because of it I don't think (at least, the explanation wasn't (directly) linked to the bacterium)
05:05 geekosaur that was one of the key parts of the initial claim, that it not only had found a way to function without losing all its atp but that it had also managed to survive the subsequent incorporation of arsenic into its dna
05:05 geekosaur followups demonstrated that it had managed to mostly keep the arsenic out of its dna, but sure enough the places it did get in were incapable of reproducing
05:06 geekosaur also while it was surviving, it was (a) not thriving (b) surviving despite the arsenic, not actively managing to use it in place of phosphorus (another part of the initial claim)
05:12 geekosaur also the way I am presenting this is a bit unfair, NASA said "we may have found evidence of a bacterium that might have figured out how to use arsenic" and it was mostly the press that went "OOO WE FOUND ARSENIC BASED LIFE!!!eleventyone!"
05:15 DrEeevil typical reinterpretation
05:16 DrEeevil geekosaur: seen the "we can create energy with fusion" claim from the NIF ?
05:16 geekosaur I saw the actual release, which did not claim that although I imagine the same idiots have interpreted it that way
05:16 DrEeevil well, yes, if you ignore the factor 5000 difference between actual input and output, then ... theoretically, if the measurements were good ...
05:16 DrEeevil it's so dishonest what "journalists" do
05:17 geekosaur they were quite clear, they have reached a milestone on the path to creating energy but are a long way from that endpoint
05:17 ens geekosaur: NASA doing dangerous science experimenting with deadly arsenic bacteria - could prove fatal to humans.
05:18 ens These ivory tower intellectuals spend their budget, already far in excess, dreaming up new ways to exterminate our species. Massive cuts are in order!
05:18 * ens spins it like a DJ
05:18 DrEeevil riiiiight
05:18 DrEeevil ens: did you read about DHMO ? ;)
05:18 ens hrm, should i google?
05:18 geekosaur ens: not likely, it's otherwise a perfectly normal and common soil+water bacterium, the normal form is non-infectious, the arsenic-adapted form is so borderline it's even less capable of infecting much of anything, the main danger is the arsenic-laced water it was found in
05:19 ens geekosaur: ah i don't believe it, i'm just emulating media spin.
05:19 geekosaur although yes it does sound a bit like something idiots would say :p
05:20 geekosaur and yes, you should google that for the yuks
05:20 geekosaur it's the classic example of mocking the idiots
05:20 ens dihydrogen monoxide hoax. lmao.
05:21 ens http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/​commons/9/92/Danger_sign_hydrogen.jpg
05:21 geekosaur ens: wait until some wag realizes there's only one letter difference between NASA and NSA
05:22 ens oh we have to put on the voice of those youtube conspiracy theorists and be like "coincidence? you decide!"
05:22 ens and then lace it will arbitrary references to biblical connections and free masons, chemtrails. etc.
05:23 ens that youtube series 'spirit science' is like an epic treatise on the art of complete lunacy.
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06:03 timotimo ohai
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06:22 timotimo someone could add patience diff to Algorithm::Diff
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06:36 * raydiak fears fusion-inducing arsenic bacteria put in the chemtrails by masons as foretold in the bible
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07:04 * timotimo rebased his lex-to-local branch a second time on top of almost-newest nqp master
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07:57 dalek ecosystem: 066380f | lue++ | META.list:
07:57 dalek ecosystem: Add Term::ColorText
07:57 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/066380f301
08:01 timotimo lue: i like that module
08:02 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/4416af400d9c86fd0f3c ← the lighter shades mean that there were objects there that had a size of 0
08:02 timotimo i don't quite know what's causing this.
08:02 timotimo it's not in the free list at any rate.
08:03 timotimo though *maybe* i'm reading the free list wrong?
08:05 timotimo ooooh, i think i know what's wrong
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08:06 lue timotimo: thanks :) I set up functions like that every so often, and this time I decided to actually make it a(n independent) module :)
08:08 lue timotimo: that looks pretty :)
08:08 lue #perl6 o/
08:10 timotimo gnite lue
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09:00 masak mornin', #perl6
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09:06 moritz \o masak
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09:13 raydiak good morning to people across oceans from me :)
09:15 raydiak moritz: started new look for docs, feedback welcome (that goes for anyone else too)
09:19 moritz raydiak: I like it, though IMHO the coloring give the footer too much wheight
09:20 moritz and I'm not sure I like that inline <code> doesn't have a different background color anymore
09:20 raydiak yeah, trying to match colors on perl6.org kinda painted me into a corner (almost a pun)
09:21 raydiak ah, will have a look at that in the morning
09:22 moritz maybe use yellow for the footer?
09:22 moritz or the light blue
09:22 moritz (tweaking perl6.org isn't forbidden either)
09:22 raydiak internet connection is flaking out, sorry if I'm even slower than usual :)
09:24 raydiak the colors seem to work well on perl6.org, it's just that it has a very different layout, so they don't work quite as well for large, unbalanced combinations of boxes
09:24 moritz raydiak++ # much improved layout
09:24 raydiak lue++ also  suggested I think more about color selection, which I will have to give some thought to
09:26 * raydiak has not ever attempted to mix colors like this before
09:27 raydiak I usually don't play with more than 2 basic hues, so it may take a few revisions to get it well-tuned
09:27 raydiak am also planning on removing the old search page and simplifying the generation and css accordingly, unless you have objections
09:28 moritz using the blue combination from the perl6.org header for the doc.perl6.org footer might work
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09:29 moritz also, the doc.perl6.org header uses a different styiling (that I like), clinging to the top; maybe for symmetry the footer should stick to the buttom in the same way
09:29 moritz (or maybe the footer could simply be the same green as the header)
09:30 raydiak I had it that way originally, but it caused issues when the page is shorter than the window...I actually like it more as a separate box, though that could be just b/c it's that too-dominant red, as you say
09:30 raydiak s/separate box/fully bounded box/
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09:33 raydiak there was also jnthn++'s idea to add a left nav box with anchor links to the subsection headingson the current page, and make that blue
09:36 raydiak but it'd look really odd on pages with less content...ashort blue box and then empty space for the rest of the page in that column
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09:41 * raydiak will try more permutations of colors, and bleeding off the footer again (assuming net connection improves)
09:41 raydiak right now, just typing these messages requires near-superhuman patience :)
09:44 raydiak well, I better get to bed...thanks for the ideas, we'll see where it goes tomorrow
09:45 raydiak if you have any more thoughts, I'll catch upon the backlog. good morning and goodnight, #perl6
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09:55 moritz good night raydiak, and dream of beautifully-colored websites
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10:21 FROGGS o/
10:22 nwc10 \o
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10:27 moritz |o|
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11:10 FROGGS jnthn: declaring an enum triggers MVM_sc_wb_hit_st in Attribute.compose (the call to add_method in Attribute.pm line 79)
11:10 FROGGS err, line 78 actually
11:14 jnthn FROGGS: Ah, so you got it to a one-line thing? :)
11:14 yoleaux 00:25Z <lue> jnthn: doing s:g/regex/token/ (as well as removing useless backslashes in single-quoted things) makes it not eat memory on perl6-m anymore, *but* perl6-m doesn't catch nearly as many hits as perl6-p and perl6-j from the parsed files (-p and -j still work as before with the changes)
11:14 yoleaux 00:27Z <lue> jnthn: for example, the test string "# L<S82/With Frag/QQW LIST-LIKE>" works on perl6-p and perl6-j, but not perl6-m
11:14 FROGGS jnthn: well, it triggers the said function, but I don't get the STable exception (yet)
11:15 jnthn lue: Ah, then you're probably hitting a regex compiler bug, and the memory eating is it just building up more and more state due to a match fail.
11:15 jnthn lue: Please either file it as a rakudobug as is, or if you're willing to golf it some that's even better.
11:15 jnthn FROGGS: Oh...but removing the STable exception we added does...what?
11:16 FROGGS jnthn: I just have a dump_backtrace(tc) in that function instead of the throw, because the thrown exeption gets swallowed by a try/catch somewhere
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11:18 jnthn FROGGS: Oh...but we do reach that place?
11:18 FROGGS yes
11:18 FROGGS we reach the place where the oops-exception was
11:20 jnthn ok, great.
11:20 jnthn And an enum A < b c >; is enough to recreate it?
11:22 FROGGS yes, "perl6-m -e 'enum Foo <bar>'" triggers the STable reposession
11:22 FROGGS now I even have a bt where it explodes in panda: https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/ba492d​dbaa876aaf9aed/raw/ffa82c69632d50f481​b97dc950a842a129c3b6dc/gistfile1.txt
11:24 jnthn FROGGS: The other thing you could do is set a gdb breakpoint where the dump_backtrace is, and see what's on the C stack (which tells us what lower-level thing is guilty)
11:24 FROGGS k
11:25 jnthn FROGGS: I'm going to plug on with the IO stuff for a bit, but will give this enum thing some tuits later today.
11:25 FROGGS cool :o)
11:25 jnthn I've reached the point where I try to migrate tty, then pipe, over.
11:27 FROGGS the op before the dump_backtrace if setmethcacheauth
11:27 FROGGS gdb bt: https://gist.github.com/FROG​GS/60c7938ae23a4396013e/raw/
11:27 jnthn oh...hm.
11:28 FROGGS yeah, I've read about tty/pipe in the clogs
11:29 FROGGS bbiab (need to fetch food so the pups wont starve)
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14:05 * lizmat is in a holding pattern for Ijmuiden harbour in 90 miles/hour winds
14:06 jnthn Well, that blows...
14:06 timotimo lizmat: maybe you want to fix rakudo to use the new ast-based names while you wait? :)
14:07 timotimo i think it just involves search/replace for two words that are used as named arguments somewhere
14:07 timotimo i could actually do it myself, even.
14:07 lizmat well, that was the plan, but we need a version upgrade for nqp for that first, no?
14:07 timotimo yes
14:08 timotimo i just noticed that :)
14:08 lizmat I'm not sure how to upgrade the minimal nqp version for rakudo
14:08 timotimo i think i shall do it
14:08 * timotimo starts working
14:09 lizmat timotimo++
14:09 lizmat seeing the waves go over deck 6 sort of distracts
14:09 lizmat as well as having to hold on to your chair
14:10 lizmat and the load banging of the waves
14:10 lizmat :-)
14:10 lizmat it appears our 16 hour ferry is turning into a 25 hour ferry
14:11 * timotimo has never been on a ferry that went for longer than ~30 minutes
14:12 * FROGGS has never been on a ferry
14:13 * colomon used to hop on the ferry to get hard ice cream in Canada when he was a wee lad
14:17 * colomon admits he's never been on a ferry ride longer than a few hours (crossing Lake Michigan to Wisconsin)
14:17 lizmat it was either taking the ferry or driving an axtra 500km in high winds
14:18 lizmat *extra
14:18 lizmat with a fully loaded van
14:18 colomon ferry++
14:19 lizmat in any case, we're close enough to shore to be able to use my regular ISP's network
14:19 lizmat instead of the HTTP-only satellite of the boat
14:20 timotimo mhhh, kate highlighting definitions are shared by QtCreator and probably work with anything that uses some specific Qt widget perhaps?
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14:37 lizmat land ho!
14:37 FROGGS \o/
14:45 timotimo \o/
14:46 * FROGGS .oO( Ho land )
14:46 lizmat that too, finally within the inner piers of the harbour
14:47 timotimo hoelzro: you are our highlighting expert, are you not?
14:47 hoelzro I guess so?
14:47 timotimo heh.
14:47 timotimo have you looked into kate's xml highlighter definition files yet?
14:47 hoelzro nope
14:47 * timotimo is currently doing so
14:47 hoelzro I'm thinking of enhancing Vim support next
14:47 timotimo that would be lovely, too
14:48 hoelzro the hardest part (imo) is bracketing characters
14:48 timotimo qtcreator shares support for the highlighters and that is the one IDE i could imagine myself writing plugins for, hint hint
14:48 hoelzro and re-entering the Perl 6 language from within another (ex. regexes)
14:48 hoelzro the pygments lexer was actually not that hard to do
14:49 hoelzro but my hat goes off to the pygments folk; they made a simple-to-extend but powerful system for lexers
14:50 FROGGS um... what about SCiTe/Notepad++ ?
14:50 FROGGS err, SciTe
14:51 hoelzro I think if I did another higlighter, it would be for ACE
14:51 hoelzro sine that's what GH uses for their online editor
14:51 hoelzro *winc
14:51 timotimo aye.
14:51 hoelzro *since
14:52 timotimo well, at least the SciTe highlighters are c++ code, so you can go nuts there :P
14:53 timotimo like ... embed a moarvm and use the actual perl6 grammar :D
14:54 moritz ... in an extern "C" { ... } block
14:54 hoelzro hahaha
14:54 timotimo that part is easy, moritz :)
14:55 timotimo hoelzro: can you suggest a roadmap for implementing my own lexer?
14:55 timotimo where should i start, etc?
14:55 hoelzro well
14:55 hoelzro when I started with pygments, I just matched '.', I believe
14:55 hoelzro which is kind of the base rule
14:55 hoelzro and then I added feature by feature
14:56 hoelzro using a few Perl 6 files as a reference point
14:56 hoelzro so I'd go through the output, and spot things that looked messed up
14:56 hoelzro and implement those piece by piece
14:56 hoelzro then, after I got the basics done (keywords, etc), I created a regression test
14:57 hoelzro to make sure that things remained properly highlighted
14:57 timotimo fair enough
14:57 hoelzro and just worked out the kinks
14:57 timotimo this should be a decent exercise for my flu-ridden brane
14:57 hoelzro you should take a look at the pygments lexer
14:57 timotimo oooooh
14:57 timotimo Contexts may be generated dynamically to allow the usage of instance specific data in rules.
14:58 hoelzro it contains a lot of data/helper routines that you could use
14:58 timotimo i shall have a look, aye.
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14:58 hoelzro let me know if you have questions =)
14:59 timotimo dynamic if true, the context remembers strings/placeholders saved by dynamic rules. This is needed for HERE documents for example. Default: false.
14:59 timotimo <3
14:59 timotimo not quite powerful enough for bracket pairs, though, i fear :(
14:59 hoelzro for Vim, I'm going to go for common bracketing pairs
14:59 timotimo aye.
14:59 timotimo i might build a script that creates rules for a list of bracket pairs actually
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15:36 timotimo i'm ready to spectest my changes to rakudo that make it work with the newest nqp
15:38 FROGGS cool
15:38 timotimo twas easy ;)
15:41 Jimmy4 joined #perl6
15:43 Jimmy4 hi,I am -1 to s/ast/made/
15:43 timotimo Jimmy4: well, so far it's not a substitution, but an addition
15:43 timotimo but i also liked .ast
15:45 dalek rakudo/nom: 06fee3d | (Timo Paulssen)++ | / (3 files):
15:45 dalek rakudo/nom: bump NQP_REVISION and fix ast/past incompatibility
15:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/06fee3daca
15:45 FROGGS I like .ast too, but I have to admit that .made makes some sense from a user perspective
15:46 timotimo yes
15:46 timotimo it's okay to have both
15:46 timotimo it's hardly any overhead at all, aye?
15:46 FROGGS I dunno these things
15:46 Jimmy4 I don't like the comment ' # for historical reasons'
15:47 Jimmy4 good night
15:49 timotimo good point.
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16:34 timotimo hoelzro: you should introduce EVAL to the pygments lexer :)
16:37 timotimo until is a keyword in perl6?
16:38 timotimo oh, loop ... until i guess
16:38 TimToady no
16:38 TimToady repeat...until
16:38 TimToady loop (;;) {...} is C's for loop
16:38 TimToady but you can just loop {...}
16:39 TimToady until foo {...} is just them same as while not foo {...}
16:39 TimToady same for the modifier
16:40 moritz does anybody have a good example for parameterized roles?
16:41 hoelzro timotimo: is EVAL new?
16:42 FROGGS we have it since two months or so
16:42 FROGGS humm.... I can't build nqp-p atm
16:43 hoelzro well, that would explain its absence
16:44 hoelzro any other new syntax/keywords introduced in the last year?
16:45 timotimo hm, what about the parallelism stuff?
16:45 hoelzro good question
16:45 * hoelzro should just do a git diff on the specs
16:46 FROGGS umm, eager and lazy?
16:46 timotimo what is ofs? o_O
16:46 moritz I think those are older
16:46 timotimo ofs, irs, ors?
16:46 timotimo they are not in perl6 any more, eh?
16:47 timotimo why would "oo" be a keycord?
16:47 timotimo keyword
16:47 moritz what would it do?
16:48 timotimo if that question was for me: "get highlighted by the pygments perl6 lexer"
16:49 timotimo haha
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16:49 timotimo if you try, in the repl, to find out how many OUTER::s it takes to get to the setting ...
16:50 timotimo you'll infiniloop, because every line you execute adds an OUTER :D
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16:50 FROGGS hehe
16:52 TimToady which it shouldn't, really, if we had a decent incremental hook into the parser
16:53 hoelzro 12,000 lines changed in the specs since I wrote the lexer o_O
16:53 jnthn That one's not really a parsing issue
16:53 timotimo yes.
16:54 jnthn I agree we should have a hook that lets you enter multi-line things though :)
16:54 timotimo so much yes!
16:55 timotimo hm. Str has methods indent and trim-*, but not center/ljust/rjust
16:55 timotimo those are kind of nice to have, though
16:58 smls joined #perl6
16:58 smls Hi #perl6
16:58 yoleaux 8 Feb 2014 06:38Z <TimToady> smls: Revised http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Brace_expansion#Perl_6 so it now passes all the tests I know about
16:59 timotimo hello smls
16:59 smls doc.perl6.org is looking much better all of the sudden... :)
17:00 moritz yes, raydiak++ did lots of work there
17:06 hoelzro whoa, I hadn't seen the changes
17:06 hoelzro raydiak++ # indeed
17:11 timotimo kate is a surprisingly pleasant editor
17:14 FROGGS and somebody ported kate's syntax highlighting files to a P5 module, which is really nice also
17:14 timotimo oooooh
17:14 timotimo that's very useful, then!
17:14 timotimo .o( also, we could get a port to perl6 that way )
17:14 FROGGS I've used it lately to highlight soap messages for easier reading
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17:21 dalek perl6.org: e64a28e | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/compilers/index.html:
17:21 dalek perl6.org: correct perlito perl6 link
17:21 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/e64a28e0c8
17:21 dalek perl6.org: 3086d62 | (Konrad Borowski)++ | source/compilers/index.html:
17:21 dalek perl6.org: Merge pull request #9 from stmuk/master
17:21 dalek perl6.org:
17:21 dalek perl6.org: correct perlito perl6 link
17:21 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/3086d62af0
17:21 * timotimo has highlighted comments and keywords now :3
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18:01 timotimo my brane has the flu. can someone write a perl5 regular expression that accepts variable names? with - and ' and everything?
18:01 berekuk joined #perl6
18:01 timotimo preferably also stuff handling foreign characters
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18:17 timotimo this is discouraging :|
18:19 timotimo http://i.imgur.com/Ex55atX.png?1
18:24 timotimo hoelzro: https://github.com/timo/perl6-kate-syntax
18:24 jnthn hm, it thinks twigils are operators... :)
18:26 timotimo that's how i format it, aye
18:26 timotimo but it's not a good idea it seems
18:28 timotimo http://i.imgur.com/1pCDtco.png?1
18:30 timotimo it also thinks nqp::foo ops are classes :)
18:31 pippo_ joined #perl6
18:31 timotimo and it has no grasp of interpolated strings at all etc etc etc
18:31 pippo_ Hello #perl6!
18:31 timotimo hey pippo
18:32 pippo_ I was trying to use perl6-debug-m but had ===SORRY!=== Could not find Debugger::UI::CommandLine in any of: lib, ...
18:32 pippo_ Nay clue on what to do to solve the pb?
18:33 pippo_ *Any
18:34 pippo_ I've compiled perl6 with: perl Configure.pl --gen-nqp --gen-moar --backends=jvm,moar
18:34 timotimo you install Rakudo::Debugger in your lib/
18:35 pippo_ No! How can I do it?
18:35 timotimo i think it ought to be enough to just copy the thingie
18:35 pippo_ Thank you timotimo! I'll try... &
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18:51 pippo_ timotimo: :-( does not work. #!/usr/bin/perl6-debug-m\n   use v6\n  say "Hello world";\n ==> Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 1
18:51 FROGGS there is a ; missing after v6
18:53 FROGGS pippo_: btw, your readallfh segfault should be gone when the moarvm eieio branch gets merged
18:53 pippo_ timotimo: Corrected ';' but same thing
18:53 pippo_ FROGGS++ \o/
18:54 * timotimo hasn't tried the new Rakudo::Debugger yet :(
18:54 FROGGS pippo_: jnthn++ for that, he refactors how IO happens in moar atm
18:55 pippo_ :-)) jnthn++
18:55 pippo_ FROGGS: did you use perl6-debug-m ?
19:10 FROGGS pippo_: no, not yet
19:10 FROGGS but I know it should work
19:11 pippo_ Are there instructions available out there to how getting it working?
19:12 jnthn Last time I used it (couple of weeks ago to do demos at FOSDEM) it was just a case of having a lib directory with the deubber UI module and Term::ANSIColor available.
19:12 jnthn cooking &
19:13 FROGGS I think the ast changes are breaking it
19:13 pippo_ Thank you jnthn. Bon appetit !!
19:13 FROGGS pippo_: let me check it locally and then I'll guide you
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19:19 timotimo inspire me
19:19 moritz r: say 1.^HOW.defined
19:19 timotimo what kinds of things could be simplest to build IDE support for?
19:20 camelia rakudo-parrot 06fee3, rakudo-jvm 06fee3, rakudo-moar 06fee3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Cannot use .^ on a non-identifier method callâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32msay 1.^HOW[33mâ��[31m.defined[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤    â€¦Â»
19:20 moritz r: say 1.HOW.defined
19:20 camelia rakudo-parrot 06fee3, rakudo-jvm 06fee3, rakudo-moar 06fee3: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:20 timotimo huh, that's defined?
19:20 timotimo r: say 1.HOW.perl
19:20 camelia rakudo-parrot 06fee3, rakudo-jvm 06fee3, rakudo-moar 06fee3: OUTPUT«Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW.new()␤»
19:20 timotimo ah, of course
19:20 timotimo it's not the type object, it's the meta-object
19:20 moritz right
19:20 moritz the type object is .WHAT
19:21 timotimo the type object is WHAT?
19:21 timotimo that passes the attributes to WHO
19:21 timotimo mumble mumble third base mumble WHENCE mumble
19:22 moritz m: say 1.HOW === 2.HOW
19:22 camelia rakudo-moar 06fee3: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:22 moritz m: say 1.HOW === (2 but role { }).HOW
19:22 camelia rakudo-moar 06fee3: OUTPUT«False␤»
19:24 timotimo is this in response to anything?
19:24 moritz timotimo: I'm trying to write about the MOP
19:24 moritz (for doc.perl6.org)
19:24 timotimo ah
19:24 timotimo sounds good :)
19:25 moritz m: say 1.HOW === Int.HOW
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar 06fee3: OUTPUT«True␤»
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19:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 40b76ef | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/perl6-debug.nqp:
19:32 dalek rakudo/nom: align perl6-debug to latest grammar change
19:32 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:32 dalek rakudo/nom: statementlist does take an argument now, we just hand that along.
19:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/40b76ef2c3
19:33 FROGGS pippo_: try that ---^
19:34 timotimo FROGGS: what should my first IDE plugin try to do?
19:34 FROGGS also I just put Debugger/UI/CommandLine.pm and Term/ANSIColor.pm in lib/ (you get both from modules.perl6.org)
19:34 FROGGS timotimo: IDE plugin?
19:35 timotimo yes
19:35 timotimo QtCreator
19:35 timotimo i want to experiment with it
19:35 moritz provide tab/Ctrl+space completion for identifiers
19:35 timotimo and i need some inspiration
19:35 FROGGS execute the current script and show its output?
19:36 FROGGS or just show the git diff
19:36 FROGGS I dunno
19:38 timotimo QtCreator already has git support
19:39 FROGGS k
19:44 * timotimo downloads a full Qt sdk
19:57 daxim fwiw, Kate is still missing perl6 support (syntax highlighting)
19:57 daxim this is important because these highlighting definitions are reused in other projects
20:00 timotimo daxim: http://i.imgur.com/Ex55atX.png?1
20:00 timotimo https://github.com/timo/perl6-kate-syntax
20:00 timotimo :)
20:00 daxim put it upstream so it appears here <http://www.kate-editor.org/syntax/update-3.7.xml>
20:00 timotimo dude, no way
20:00 timotimo i only spent like 30 minutes on that so far
20:01 timotimo i was hoping hoelzro would pick it up and make it perfect :D
20:01 daxim oh, I see.
20:02 daxim I'm going to install it for usage
20:06 timotimo please install it for fixage instead :)
20:07 lue Why does the test harness thing decide to fail if all tests pass but there's no plan, again?
20:08 moritz because the specification says that there must be a plan
20:09 moritz (even if it's supplied afterwards)
20:09 moritz mostly to catch things like unintentional uses of exit(0) or silent failures
20:10 moritz m: class A { method x() { } }; say A.^methods
20:10 camelia rakudo-moar 06fee3: OUTPUT«x␤»
20:10 moritz m: class A { method x() { } }; say A.^methods(:all)
20:10 camelia rakudo-moar 06fee3: OUTPUT«x infinite exists exists_key exists_pos delete delete_key delete_pos list flat eager hash elems end uniq squish pick roll reverse sort values keys kv pairs reduce combinations permutations classify categorize lol map tree Array push unshift grep first join…»
20:10 lue Does "plan *" not work? I just tried it and still got failures
20:10 moritz it works
20:11 moritz unless there's a premature exit
20:11 moritz or unless you'r doing something very wrong
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20:12 FROGGS you have to call done() at the end, no?
20:12 FROGGS p: use Test; plan *; ok 1, 'ohh'
20:12 camelia rakudo-parrot 06fee3: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ohh␤»
20:12 FROGGS p: use Test; plan *; ok 1, 'ohh'; done
20:12 camelia rakudo-parrot 06fee3: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ohh␤1..1␤»
20:12 moritz oh right
20:13 lue p: use Test; ok 1, 'ohh'; done;
20:13 camelia rakudo-parrot 06fee3: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ohh␤1..1␤»
20:15 * araujo checks perl6 to see what's new in the community
20:15 timotimo heyo araujo :)
20:15 araujo hi timotimo :)
20:15 timotimo we're kind of excited about MoarVM
20:15 timotimo last week i started a "weekly perl6 changes" blog that may be of interest to you
20:15 timotimo (also since i told you about it now, i'll have more reason to keep it up :)  )
20:15 araujo timotimo, any nice link at hand to update me?
20:15 araujo sure :)
20:15 timotimo http://6guts.wordpress.com/ ← always an excellent source for happy thoughts
20:16 lue I personally think it's wrong for panda to refuse to continue when the test pass, but there's no plan-like thing, but I'll play along with it.
20:16 araujo timotimo, thanks!
20:16 timotimo http://p6weekly.wordpress.com/ ← this is my blog
20:17 * araujo checks
20:19 araujo timotimo, wow, that's nice... will you update weekly?
20:19 timotimo araujo: hopefully!
20:20 araujo hehe, nice, useful for people like me .. who just glances at perl6 from time to time :P
20:21 timotimo xfix aka GlitchMr used to do one of those, but his posts were more concise and a bit more technical
20:21 timotimo i'm hoping i can keep up the energy to write about changes in a bit more detail and give outlooks each week
20:21 moritz m: say 1.^mro
20:21 camelia rakudo-moar 06fee3: OUTPUT«(Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
20:24 moritz r-m build fails with "Unexpected named parameter 'deserialize_past' passed" during parse stage of the setting
20:24 moritz oh, I forgot to pull
20:24 moritz never mind
20:25 jnthn timotimo: Is Rakudo HEAD fixed against NQP master yet?
20:25 FROGGS yes
20:25 FROGGS the debugger is fixed too
20:26 dalek doc: 1c79ebf | moritz++ | lib/objects.pod:
20:26 dalek doc: start to talk about introspection and meta objects
20:26 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1c79ebf09a
20:26 jnthn \o/
20:26 timotimo jnthn: yup
20:27 moritz lots more to write :-)
20:28 FROGGS moritz++
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20:48 pippo_ FROGGS: FROGGS++. I works with your patch !!! Thank you very much!!
20:49 FROGGS pippo_: cool!
20:49 FROGGS pippo_: have fun hacking! :o)
20:50 pippo_ :-)) Yes indeed with perl6 and its community it is really a fun programming :-))
20:50 FROGGS yes, absolutely
20:51 pippo_ :-)
20:51 TimToady 'course, our idea of fun is a bit masochistic at times...
20:51 TimToady or perhaps, stoic...
20:51 dalek doc: d0ea532 | Mouq++ | lib/Version.pod:
20:51 dalek doc: Add missing TITLE to Version.pod
20:51 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d0ea5320ef
20:52 pippo_ TimToady++
20:57 timotimo "This is an action from MyPlugin!"
20:57 timotimo \o/
20:58 FROGGS \o/
20:59 timotimo now i'm basically standing in front of a big wall :\
20:59 FROGGS haha
20:59 FROGGS yeah
20:59 FROGGS a 'Toady
21:03 * masak .oO( "if I have seen further, it's only because I have been standing on the shoulders of big Walls." )
21:03 TimToady --Humpty Dumpty
21:04 thou joined #perl6
21:08 masak :P
21:10 pippo_ jnthn++ for perl6-debug-m
21:14 virtualsue joined #perl6
21:15 dalek nqp: c64c70f | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
21:15 dalek nqp: Map socket ops for Moar; get Moar with sockets.
21:15 dalek nqp:
21:15 dalek nqp: Or at least, client sockets.
21:15 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c64c70f603
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: f35ca0b | jnthn++ | / (4 files):
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: Get client sockets support on Moar in place.
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: This also takes us to a MoarVM with heavily refactored/improved IO; of
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: note, line-level reading should be more efficient, and cases where we
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: read characters split over packet/buffer boundaries should be handled
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: correctly.
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f35ca0b821
21:25 FROGGS cool!
21:32 * timotimo hunts bumped revisions
21:36 ggherdov joined #perl6
22:03 pippo_ FROGGS: indeed the above patch from jnthn solved the problem of qx[] on my machine. jnthn++
22:05 jnthn pippo_: yay :)
22:06 pippo_ :-)
22:07 FROGGS \o/
22:08 timotimo i think the first "plug-in" to qtcreator for perl6 support will actually just be a wizard that creates projects/classes/modules for you
22:09 timotimo and after that probably a "pipe selection through a perl6 program" menu entry or something
22:09 timotimo and then perhaps "search with p6 regex"
22:09 timotimo the possibilities! they are endless! :)
22:17 kaare_ joined #perl6
22:18 smls joined #perl6
22:19 smls .tell raydiak I've made some mockups showing how I think the structure and design of doc.perl6.org could be improved further: http://imgur.com/a/y1dHo -- What do you think?
22:19 yoleaux smls: I'll pass your message to raydiak.
22:19 smls ^^ this also goes to everyone else who is interested in docs.perl6.org
22:20 timotimo ooooh, damn
22:20 timotimo that looks pretty
22:22 FROGGS ohh yes
22:24 jnthn smls++
22:28 lue smls++ though the book icon doesn't fit with Camelia :)
22:28 smls I just took the address book icon from from the Tango icon theme, and tweaked it minimally... :P
22:29 smls if someone has the skills to create a custom icon, that would of course be better
22:29 timotimo bedtime o/
22:30 timotimo http://questhub.io/realm/perl/​quest/52ffeaaf19eee006670000e7 ← thoughts and comments very much appreciated
22:30 FROGGS gnight timotimo
22:30 pippo_ o/ timotimo
22:34 jnthn 'night, timotimo++
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23:10 jnthn What on earth...
23:10 jnthn The socket tests, on the server side, do this:
23:11 jnthn while my $client = $server.accept() {
23:11 jnthn ...
23:11 FROGGS that is interesting
23:11 jnthn accept blocks. The client connects, tthe server replies. Then it goes and waits for another connection...which of course we're never going to make.
23:11 FROGGS a bit strange, but interesting
23:11 jnthn Because all the tests connect once.
23:12 jnthn On Windows, I think there's no timeout mechanism.
23:12 jnthn So the test will hang forever. Correctly, afaict.
23:12 TimToady well, but that's just how accepts always worked, originally
23:12 jnthn TimToady: Blocking? Yes.
23:12 jnthn TimToady: I'm not questioning accepts. I'm questioning why the tests look like this.
23:13 TimToady nodnod
23:13 jnthn TimToady: As in, "how could these tests have ever been right"?
23:13 TimToady is there any other way to terminate the proggie?
23:14 jnthn Well, we only ever send it one connection
23:15 jnthn The tests can still pass on anything that runs the .sh
23:15 jnthn 'cus it contains a bunch of stuff to kill after 45s.
23:15 jnthn Conveniently, the tests then allow things to take 60s.
23:15 jnthn So anyway, we might have solved the mystery of why the sockets tests are so darn snow... :)
23:15 jnthn uh, slow
23:17 jnthn oh, hmm
23:18 jnthn both should unconditionally kill the server if the client exits.
23:22 * masak .oO( you know nothing, Jon Slow )
23:28 jnthn FROGGS: Still about?
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