Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-02-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 raydiak that's on multiple machines and multiple backends, but not a very recent build, no...maybe a month or so old
00:00 raydiak (is why I haven't reported it yet)
00:00 Mouq lue: That line works perfect AFAICT on near-to-latest perl6-m and perl6-j
00:01 Mouq lue: *for me
00:01 Mouq OSX
00:02 lue Lemme spend a quarter of an hour getting the latest rakudo and see if it works....
00:02 lue (not counting the time it'll take to reinstall panda and associated modules)
00:02 Mouq :/
00:05 lue I can't wait to be able to drop parrot, that's where the quarter-hour comes from.
00:06 raydiak I dropped parrot long ago, b/c for me it is multiple hours
00:06 Mouq lue: My perl6-p remarkably still runs; perl6-p -v says it's from November
00:07 tadzik in my File-Find benchmarks it's 1.5 slower than moar
00:07 lue I can't use moar for what I'm doing at the moment because something in the Regex language is broken on Moar
00:07 jnthn lue: Did you mangae to golf/ticket that?
00:08 lue jnthn: no, not yet. Should get to that soon though.
00:10 timotimo lovely! :)
00:13 Mouq O.o `prove -eperl6-j t` → `t/01.t ................... ok`; `panda install URI` → `t/01.t ................... 12/47 java.lang.NullPointerException`
00:13 lue jnthn: As soon as I'm done updating rakudo, and get a module for perl6-debug-m, I'll be able to look into that bug.
00:17 tadzik oh wow
00:17 timotimo wow?
00:17 timotimo much moar?
00:18 tadzik infix:«<» is called almost 200k times during find(".") on File::Find repo
00:18 timotimo so works?
00:18 timotimo oh wow.
00:18 tadzik (less than 500 actual files)
00:18 timotimo how does that even ...
00:18 tadzik what's more, defined() is called 330k times
00:18 tadzik and that's all with checkrules() commented out
00:18 tadzik so it's almost exclusively gather-take
00:18 timotimo impressive.
00:18 lue o.o
00:19 jnthn o.O
00:20 tadzik ok, on the plus side, it has nothing to do with gather-take
00:20 tadzik it's exactly as bad without it
00:20 timotimo phew.
00:21 timotimo how do you measure that, ooc?
00:21 tadzik --profile
00:21 tadzik on parrot backend
00:21 timotimo oh, parrot
00:21 timotimo okay
00:21 tadzik yeah
00:22 tadzik oh well
00:22 tadzik the top topmost Inclusive suspects are catdir and canonpath
00:22 tadzik catdir accounting for about 80% of the time spent
00:23 timotimo does that include or exclude time spent in canoning the dir?
00:23 tadzik include
00:24 tadzik canonpath is making between 4 and 6 regex substitutions
00:24 timotimo right.
00:24 timotimo yeah, canonpath was already horribly slow the last time we looked there :(
00:24 tadzik almost always 5 or more
00:25 timotimo i tried to make some fastpaths in there to make already canonical paths fall through much quicker
00:25 tadzik so, yeah, there
00:25 timotimo did they ever make it in, though?
00:25 tadzik on the plus side, not my fault :D
00:25 tadzik no idea
00:25 timotimo nope.
00:26 japhb [File::Find] sub find -> [Rakudo] sub dir -> Str.path (-> IO::Path.new) + IO::Path.contents -> IO::Path.absolute -> IO::Spec.rel2abs (-> IO::Spec.is-absolute + IO::Spec.canonpath | IO::Spec.catdir (-> IO::Spec.canonpath)) + IO::Path.new
00:26 japhb (I just was following that to show how you end up at canonpath whether you like it or not.)
00:26 japhb :-(
00:26 tadzik right
00:26 tadzik well, the price of correctness
00:28 tadzik I don't have any immediate idea what to do with this
00:28 timotimo you should print a few before/after canonpaths
00:28 timotimo maybe you'll see the fastpath i wanted to take some time ago clear as day
00:29 timotimo i *think* i had written a semi-short regex that just returned the path if it was already canonical
00:29 timotimo hm. how expensive is a substitution that makes no changes?
00:30 xenoterracide joined #perl6
00:31 timotimo oh hey
00:31 timotimo subst does getlexcaller for $/
00:31 btyler joined #perl6
00:32 timotimo and then it calls self.match which does the same thing
00:32 timotimo does that maybe do something troubling?
00:33 timotimo hm. so self.match will do a gather/take that self.subst will immediately gobble up; maybe a feasible optimization would be to introduce a simpler match method that does "nothing fancy"
00:34 tadzik well, I wonder, canonpath seems to be doing things that are nice to have for a human to read
00:34 tadzik they're all the same paths as far as OS is concerned
00:34 tadzik so do we really always have to do it?
00:34 tadzik can we do it lazily?
00:43 Mouq {Set,Bag,Mix}{,Hash} haven't been updated for the docs. Should the docs have the hypothetical parametric QuantHash-based set-up described in S32, or the less ideal way they're implemented in Rakudo?
00:43 PZt joined #perl6
00:44 Mouq r: say QuantHash ~~ Mixy
00:44 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«False␤»
00:44 jnthn Mouq: Documenting it as it is probably helps users more
00:44 timotimo i wonder: would subst be any faster if we replace $result ~= self.substr(...) with @result.push(self.substr(...)) followed by a join?
00:45 Mouq jnthn: Works for me, thanks
00:52 Mouq https://gist.github.com/Mouq/9042876
00:55 ggoebel1116 joined #perl6
00:59 timotimo so yeah. if anybody wants to, there's probably some optimizations to be had in src/core/Str.pm in the subst method
01:07 dalek nqp: 28b9c29 | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
01:07 dalek nqp: Make various 6model type ops decont the first arg.
01:07 dalek nqp:
01:07 dalek nqp: Some Rakudo code was accidentally trying to tweak the method cache on
01:07 dalek nqp: Scalar, in turn triggering a bogus STable repossession. This fixes
01:07 dalek nqp: that particular issue, and also marks up other ops in hope of avoiding
01:07 dalek nqp: other similar ones.
01:07 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/28b9c297dd
01:08 raydiak speaking of str-like things, are mutable bufs close to bubbling up to the top of anyones todo list yet?
01:10 timotimo jnthn: it's interesting that that only blew up on moar.
01:10 timotimo wouldn't this also cause .moarvm and .pir files to shrink, loading times to decrease ever so slightly?
01:10 jnthn raydiak: All the native things are relatively high on mine.
01:11 jnthn raydiak: They're tied with concurrency support on Moar, and the Moar specializer.
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01:11 timotimo oh, the moar specializer is *that* close?
01:11 raydiak \o/
01:11 timotimo wowza.
01:11 timotimo we really do live in exciting times.
01:12 timotimo hoelzro: very much looking forward to the first hoelzro-improved kate-highlighting :D
01:12 jnthn timotimo: I have specializer-related code sketches hanging around.
01:12 timotimo oh wow!
01:12 timotimo i didn't even realize
01:12 jnthn timotimo: Got CFGs figured out, currently working on computing dominance.
01:13 timotimo context free grammars?
01:13 jnthn timotimo: Well, it's all local while I experiment/explore/research :)
01:13 jnthn Control Flow Graph.
01:13 hoelzro timotimo: heh.  it could take me a few days to get around to it =)
01:13 timotimo oh
01:13 timotimo you got me excited now. but i wanted to go to bed :|
01:14 jnthn timotimo: It's going to be a couple of weeks before any code lands, I suspect.
01:14 timotimo that's okay. i think i'll be able to sleep between then and now
01:14 jnthn timotimo: The dominance algo I picked gives me the frontiers trivially, but then I still gotta do the rest of the SSA transform.
01:14 jnthn timotimo: And then be able to transform back into working bytecode.
01:14 jnthn It's only *then* that I can start doing the interesting stuff.
01:15 timotimo i know almost nothing about this :)
01:15 jnthn :)
01:15 jnthn Yeah, it's been quite a while since I was doing these things too. :)
01:15 jnthn And not sure I ever actually coded up SSA, even if I studied it somewhat.
01:16 timotimo i've once used SSA "by hand" to figure out some bit-arithmetic puzzle
01:17 jnthn ah :)
01:17 raydiak jnthn: thanks for the update; just figured I'd make sure it's still prominent on the radar...I can't imagine how you prioritize the tremendous number of important things you could be working on
01:17 jnthn Half of my code is already in SSA form...
01:17 jnthn Well, depends on language. :)
01:18 jnthn raydiak: Yeah, there's quite a lot of things I want to be doing.
01:18 jnthn raydiak: And some I don't. This weekend's tuits went on the Moar I/O refactors, but they really had to happen.
01:19 jnthn Good news is it forced me to figure out libuv more deeply, which'll make the async I/O stuff easier.
01:20 timotimo any word on having "select" or something similar in the core without having the whole async i/o shebang?
01:20 jnthn timotimo: As a stopgap, or because you want it there longterm?
01:21 timotimo well, every other language i know has a way to set a timeout for sockets and files :)
01:21 timotimo and when you set that timeout to 0, you usually get poll-semantics
01:21 timotimo i would like at least that
01:22 timotimo though i suppose in the long-term, async i/o is going to be so easy to use that it will hardly matter
01:22 timotimo anyway. i'm off to bed
01:22 timotimo o/
01:22 jnthn 'night
01:23 raydiak g'night timotimo
01:23 raydiak yes, async IO is another big one...I plan to write an html5 websocket game w/p6 on the server side
01:25 raydiak I wrote a toy version of it in p5 last year, but it needs a serious rewrite, and I'm slowly in the process of moving my eggs out of the P5 basket, so haven't touched it for a long time
01:25 lee__ aye, i would also play around with that. currently use AnyEvent for just about everything
01:25 lee__ and would love to use p6 instead :)
01:25 jnap joined #perl6
01:26 * raydiak should stop asking these questions before someone pins him down and tries to make him learn C or something :)
01:27 dayangkun joined #perl6
01:27 Mouq lee__: We do have MuEvent, an "AnyEvent lookalike for Perl 6"
01:27 dalek roast: cf43276 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S04-exception-handlers/catch.t:
01:27 dalek roast: Add test for RT 121213
01:27 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/cf432763b5
01:27 Mouq lee__: I don't know if it works right now though
01:27 lee__ Mouq: yeah, i wasn't sure if that still worked. worth a try i suppose
01:28 * Mouq knows nothing of AnyEvent in the first place
01:28 woosley joined #perl6
01:28 * Mouq is of middling helpfulness
01:35 jnthn 'night, #perl6
01:35 raydiak good night jnthn
01:45 raiph joined #perl6
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01:47 Mouq p6: my \term:<`> = 1; say `+` # I swear Rakudo used to be able to do this...
01:47 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Term definition requires an initializerâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32mmy \term[33mâ��[31m:<`> = 1; say `+` # I swear Rakudo used [0mâ�¤    â€¦Â»
01:47 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«2␤»
01:56 molaf joined #perl6
02:00 Mouq p6: constant \term:<`> = ->\n{n**2}; say `(3) # At least constant works
02:00 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«9␤»
02:15 lue Grr. I get a segfault trying to use perl6-debug-m :(
02:23 Sqirrel_ joined #perl6
02:23 lue By the way — updating rakudo did not fix my qqx bug :(
02:25 Mouq r: say Set.^mro
02:25 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«(Set) (Any) (Mu)␤»
02:25 Mouq ^^ Notice how !Cool Set is?
02:25 Mouq I'm not sure if this is intentional
02:27 Mouq r: say EnumMap.^mro
02:27 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«(EnumMap) (Iterable) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
02:27 Mouq r: say PairMap.^mro
02:27 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    PairMap used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
02:27 Mouq Hm
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02:42 raydiak I was sure someone mentioned something about the code blocks in the docs looking wrong somehow, I just can't remember who or what...
02:45 raydiak ah, found it...the background doesn't contrast enough
02:52 dalek doc: 4c568cf | raydiak++ | / (7 files):
02:52 dalek doc: Add Camelia, adjust colors, various other tweaks
02:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4c568cffb5
02:59 lue .tell jnthn I've narrowed it down to the 'frag' rule accidentally eating a closing > (but it doesn't do this on closing »), not yet sure exactly why that is.
02:59 yoleaux lue: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
03:01 raydiak .tell smls I changed the colors today, in case that affects anything you are/will be working on
03:01 yoleaux raydiak: I'll pass your message to smls.
03:06 lue .tell jnthn strangely, I can't seem to isolate the rule, or any of its parts, without it working on perl6-m :/
03:06 yoleaux lue: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
03:06 Mouq raydiak: Here's an interesting issue: "postcircumfix { }", "postfix ++", "circumfix [ ]" etc are not jumped to by my browser correctly
03:07 Mouq E.g. type "++" in the search box, go to the first result, end up sitting at the top of operators.html
03:07 Mouq The "id"s of these things are escaped properly, it seems
03:08 Mouq but that means that "operators#prefix+%2B%2B" won't jump to the anchor: it needs to either be "operators#prefix+%252B%252B" or a different id
03:11 Mouq In the case of anything with "[", "<", etc., it's enough to simply change the id in Firebug (id="postcircumfix+[+]" instead of id="postcircumfix+%5B+%5D")
03:11 Mouq but I'm not sure how the case of postfix ++ would work
03:13 Mouq Since "+" is already being substituted for " ". I mean, it would be enough to fix it, but it seems hack-y
03:14 lue I'd think prefix+++ , unless multiple spaces are encoded with multiple +'s
03:15 raydiak thanks Mouq, I'll put it on a list somewhere; I know there are a couple issues with certain characters and the search
03:16 raydiak there are special rules for what can be an id, and different browsers react differently when you break the rules
03:17 timotimo i guess i didn't want to sleep anyway.
03:17 Mouq some W3C document I saw points out you can use anchor tags with name attributes for more choice (I think) of characters
03:18 Mouq timotimo: Awww
03:18 Mouq raydiak: But I have not tried this
03:19 raydiak well, I'm familiar with <a name="...">, but there are things like for example, for a long time (dunno about now), using underscores anywhere would break in some browsers, much less more specially-interpreted chars like +
03:21 * raydiak will dig up the spec again, and make sure things are escaped to the same name for the anchors and the urls in the search
03:21 Mouq raydiak++ # not for this specific issue, but general doc work
03:22 raydiak thanks :) just glad I found something genuinely useful to do around here
03:23 raydiak ooc Mouq, what browser are you using?
03:24 Mouq Firefox 28.0
03:25 * Mouq accidentally clicks the "Restart to Update" button. "Noooo! All the tabs I don't care about!"
03:25 raydiak yay, it breaks for me too...that makes things so much easier to fix
03:26 raydiak heh
03:28 raydiak I see the index links are broken in the same way, as you'd expect
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03:35 raydiak yep, you're right...it is weird :) you might have hit the nail on the head in the first place (just use anchor names instead of IDs)
03:36 raydiak ouch, and I need to take a serious run through with a validator too...that page is too broken for the validator to even reach the funny chars
03:41 Mouq r: say 1.4e1 div 5.9e1
03:41 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'infix:<div>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Int:D \a, Int:D \b)␤:(int $a, int $b)␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1219␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1210␤  in sub infix:<div> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:4015␤  in…»
03:41 camelia ..rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'infix:<div>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Int:D \a, Int:D \b)␤:(int $a, int $b)␤  in sub infix:<div> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4011␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:41 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 230a54: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'infix:<div>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Int:D \a, Int:D \b)␤:(int $a, int $b)␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1212␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1202␤  in sub infix:<div> at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:4011␤  in block  at /…»
03:44 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
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03:48 dalek doc: 30411da | Mouq++ | type-graph.txt:
03:48 dalek doc: Update {Set,Bag,Mix}{,Hash} typegraph
03:48 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/30411dad15
03:48 dalek doc: caeb481 | Mouq++ | type-graph.txt:
03:48 dalek doc: Fix text alignment
03:48 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/caeb481f0c
03:48 dalek doc: f442101 | Mouq++ | lib/Set.pod:
03:48 dalek doc: Begin Set documentation
03:48 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f442101425
03:48 dalek doc: 0c23b44 | Mouq++ | / (7 files):
03:48 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
03:48 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0c23b44b26
03:52 Mouq r: say Mix.new(1,2,3,4,2,5,2){2}
03:52 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«3␤»
03:53 Mouq r: say Mix.new(1,2,3,4,2,5,2){2} = 15
03:53 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:53 Mouq r: say (Mix.new(1,2,3,4,2,5,2){2} = 15)
03:53 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
03:53 Mouq Looks immutable to me
03:53 timotimo yeah, it gets mutable if you have a *Hash
03:53 timotimo like a MixHash or BagHash
03:54 Mouq timotimo: Oh, cool. Thanks!
03:54 Mouq r: say (MixHash.new(1,2,3,4,2,5,2){2} = 15)
03:54 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«15␤»
03:54 Mouq r: say MixHash.new(1,2,3,4,2,5,2).total
03:54 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«7␤»
04:22 lue my $a = "LOHELLO"; say $a ~~ /EL/; $a .= subst(/LO/, "HI", :p); say $a
04:22 lue r: my $a = "LOHELLO"; say $a ~~ /EL/; $a .= subst(/LO/, "HI", :p); say $a
04:22 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«「EL」␤␤LOHELLO␤»
04:22 lue r: my $a = "LOHELLO"; say $a ~~ /EL/; $a .= subst(/LO/, "HI", :p($/.to)); say $a
04:23 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«「EL」␤␤LOHELHI␤»
04:25 * lue files rakudobug
04:26 Mouq lue: Isn't that right?
04:26 lue nope
04:26 lue S05: "If the argument is omitted, it defaults to ($/ ?? $/.to !! 0). "
04:26 Mouq Ohh, I thought there was an issue with the last example
04:27 Mouq coolll
04:27 lue Funny thing is, :c works just fine with m// (though it doesn't guarantee anchoring like :p does, so it can't be used on subst)
04:30 jnap joined #perl6
04:31 dalek doc: 6d17e91 | Mouq++ | lib/Mix (3 files):
04:31 dalek doc: Add some documentation for Mixy objects
04:31 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6d17e91eea
04:35 colomon joined #perl6
04:35 colomon o/
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04:48 dalek doc: 25858b8 | Mouq++ | lib/ (4 files):
04:48 dalek doc: Minor additions, typo+code fixes
04:48 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/25858b8082
04:58 dalek doc: 1669f74 | Mouq++ | lib/Bag.pod:
04:58 dalek doc: Begin Bag documentation akin to Set documentation
04:58 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1669f741b2
04:59 dalek doc: 7bbf2d1 | Mouq++ | lib/Bag.pod:
04:59 dalek doc: Fix code example in Bag.pod
05:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7bbf2d1baa
05:02 jdv79 left #perl6
05:12 dalek doc: fa694fa | Mouq++ | lib/ (3 files):
05:12 dalek doc: Use infix:<*> for infixes
05:12 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fa694faf9d
05:13 Mouq Why infix:<div> is defined in Int.pod and nothing else, I do not know
05:15 lue div is for integer division
05:16 lue r: say 3 / 2; say 3 div 2;
05:16 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«1.5␤1␤»
05:16 Mouq lue: But why not infix:<mod> for example
05:16 Mouq I mean, maybe it just wasn't added...
05:16 lue I can't think of a reason for integer-only modulus.
05:17 Mouq r: 2.3 mod 15
05:17 camelia rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'infix:<div>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Int:D \a, Int:D \b)␤:(int $a, int $b)␤  in sub infix:<div> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4011␤  in sub infix:<mod> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4221␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
05:17 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 230a54: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'infix:<div>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Int:D \a, Int:D \b)␤:(int $a, int $b)␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1212␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1202␤  in sub infix:<div> at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:4011␤  in sub infix:<…»
05:17 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'infix:<div>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Int:D \a, Int:D \b)␤:(int $a, int $b)␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1219␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1210␤  in sub infix:<div> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:4015␤  in…»
05:18 lue Oh, I thought you were saying C<mod> didn't exist. Nevermind then.
05:18 Mouq lue: Nope.
05:19 Mouq I'm just kind of debating... I put these Set/Bag operators in the Set.pod and Bag.pod files based on the operators in Int.pod and Bool.pod
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05:20 Mouq But I do question whether they maybe should go in operators.pod, though I thought that was for operators hard-coded in the grammar
05:22 lue Mouq: I'd recommend putting them with their associated types for clarity, they can be moved to operators if necessary.
05:24 Mouq lue: That's what I conclude as well. And I suppose if I wanted to look up Set operators, I'd look in Set.pod
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05:47 dalek doc: dcbdcb6 | Mouq++ | lib/QuantHash.pod:
05:47 dalek doc: Steal most of S32/Containers QuantHash description
05:47 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/dcbdcb6698
05:47 dalek doc: 6a375a2 | Mouq++ | lib/ (4 files):
05:47 dalek doc: Stub Baggy, Setty, BagHash, and SetHash
05:47 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6a375a2de6
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05:52 * Mouq is done for tonight
05:52 Mouq \o #perl6
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09:07 jnthn morning o/
09:07 yoleaux 02:59Z <lue> jnthn: I've narrowed it down to the 'frag' rule accidentally eating a closing > (but it doesn't do this on closing »), not yet sure exactly why that is.
09:07 yoleaux 03:06Z <lue> jnthn: strangely, I can't seem to isolate the rule, or any of its parts, without it working on perl6-m :/
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09:46 nwc10 jnthn: in the native call code, I really don't understand dyncall_wb_ca and dyncall_wb_cs. In that, it's not clear why they aren't usually needed. Or why the only action they seem to take is body->child_objs[slot] = NULL;
09:46 nwc10 ie they just seem to update the PMC to NULL. Never to anything else.
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09:47 nwc10 er, a pointer within the PMC to NULL.
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09:53 jnthn nwc10: I didn't write that bit, but iirc, they're dealing with the case where something changes in C land "out of band", and we need to re-compute the wrapper object.
09:53 jnthn nwc10: So setting it to NULL just means "it's missing" and causes re-computation on the next access.
09:54 nwc10 ah OK
09:54 nwc10 that was my guess. That there is a cached wrapper object
09:56 FROGGS jnthn: you fixed the STable thingy??
09:56 * FROGGS is excited
10:00 tadzik hah, 'realclean' changes names all the time, it seems :)
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10:02 tadzik rakudobrew shouts at me every once in a while: "there's no such thing as realclean! It's called j-realclean!"
10:02 tadzik now it's the other way around :P
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10:42 FROGGS tadzik: I can almost bootstrap panda now, there is just a failing test
10:42 bjz joined #perl6
10:43 tadzik oh :)
10:43 jnthn tadzik: ooh, nice :)
10:43 jnthn uh, FROGGS ^^ :)
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10:46 FROGGS jnthn++ # btw :o)
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11:05 tadzik ah
11:05 tadzik so even though panda is not copying .git files, file-find is still traversing those
11:06 masak good noon, #perl6
11:06 tadzik hi masak
11:07 tadzik hah
11:07 tadzik r: 'foo/.git/bab' ~~ / <!.git> /
11:07 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54: OUTPUT«No such method 'git' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in regex  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in method ACCEPTS at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:12577␤  in method ACCEPTS at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:780␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
11:07 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 230a54: OUTPUT«No such method 'git' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in method ACCEPTS at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:12556␤  in method ACCEPTS at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:784␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
11:07 camelia ..rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«No such method 'git' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:12554␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:784␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
11:07 tadzik hmm
11:07 tadzik p: 'foo/.git/bab' ~~ / <!\.git> /
11:07 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter < (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/Ht6itilAVi:1�------> [32m'foo/.git/bab' ~~ / <![33m�[31m\.git> /[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter ! (must be quoted to match li…»
11:08 tadzik well, locally I get null pmc access :P
11:09 jnthn <!before '.git'>
11:11 tadzik r: say so '.git' ~~ / <!before '.git'> /;
11:11 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:11 tadzik hrm
11:11 jnthn Anchor
11:12 jnthn But why not !~~ /'.git'/ :)
11:12 tadzik well, I'm looking for an equivalent of... exactly
11:12 tadzik but I want to pull the ! inside the regex
11:12 jnthn Oh...
11:13 tadzik because file-find uses ~~ to match against :$name param
11:13 tadzik and I'd rather pass a different regex there than teach File-Find how to do not-name
11:14 jnthn If ::: were implemented that'd do it...
11:15 moritz tadzik: aren't you smart-matching against whatever is passed in
11:15 jnthn Cheating way is / ^.+$ <?{ $/ !~~ /'.git'/ }> /
11:15 moritz ?
11:15 tadzik moritz: if it's a regex, yes
11:15 tadzik or, maybe...
11:15 moritz tadzik: why not always smart-match?
11:16 moritz then you could pass in { $^name !~~/\.git/ }
11:16 moritz and be happy
11:16 tadzik ah, because it's using .basename for Str arguments
11:16 tadzik hrm
11:16 tadzik I wonder if I'll break someone's code if I unified that
11:16 tadzik not sure why it's this way
11:20 masak raiph: thank you for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFs9WO2B8uI -- the message of that talk will be integrated in one of my talks at PLPW.
11:20 tadzik well, it breaks the tests :/
11:23 tadzik I think I found a way to please everyone :) It's not pretty, but at least shouldn't break existing code
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11:30 tadzik bah, that won't help at all :/
11:30 tadzik find-find will traverse the entire .git, it just won't take() any of what's inside
11:30 tadzik tablethrow.png
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11:33 hoelzro tadzik: maybe you should teach yoleaux how to flip tables? =P
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11:35 Timbus (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━━┻
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11:35 tadzik I wanted to be sneaky and do say <40 9583 176 9633 176 65289 9583 65077 32 9531 9473 9531>.comb».chr
11:36 tadzik doesn't work for some reason
11:36 tadzik oooh
11:36 tadzik of course
11:36 tadzik m: say <40 9583 176 9633 176 65289 9583 65077 32 9531 9473 9531>».chr
11:36 camelia rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«( ╯ ° □ ° ) ╯ ︵   ┻ ━ ┻␤»
11:36 tadzik m: say <40 9583 176 9633 176 65289 9583 65077 32 9531 9473 9531>».chr.join
11:36 camelia rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻␤»
11:36 Timbus haha neat
11:37 tadzik FROGGS: hmm, my panda still cannot build because of this STable problem
11:37 tadzik This is perl6 version 2014.01-94-g230a54b built on MoarVM version 2014.01-181-gbf9c708
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11:40 jnthn tadzik: The NQP_REVISION didn't get mumped yet - maybe that's it?
11:40 jnthn uh, bumped
11:41 tadzik jnthn: I usually do --gen-nqp=master
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11:41 tadzik but seems like it didn't work now :)
11:57 FROGGS tadzik: so you've fixed the failing test already?
11:57 FROGGS t/installer.t (Wstat: 0 Tests: 8 Failed: 1)
11:57 FROGGS Failed test:  3
11:58 tadzik FROGGS: nope, I didn't manage to build panda
11:59 tadzik hm
11:59 tadzik ah, it didn't bother updating nqp at all
12:00 tadzik I had to nuke install/
12:00 FROGGS ohh
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12:16 timotimo o/
12:22 timotimo today is the day for a new p6weekly
12:24 tadzik nah, that still didn't help :(
12:24 tadzik I'll look at it later time
12:27 eiro [hello] @perl6
12:29 tadzik hello eiro!
12:32 masak herro eilo!
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12:38 eiro haha... what's the shortest perl6 script to do that ? :)
12:38 eiro i mean "hello eiro!" to "herro eilo!"
12:39 masak r: say "hello eiro".trans( "rl" => "lr" )
12:39 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«herro eilo␤»
12:39 eiro y/lr/rl/ in perl5
12:39 masak r: given my $ = "hello eiro" { tr/rl/lr/; .say }
12:39 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54: OUTPUT«herro eilo␤»
12:39 camelia ..rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'Str'␤»
12:39 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 230a54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No such method 'Str' for invocant of type 'NQPMu'␤»
12:39 masak interesting.
12:40 moritz bugs!
12:40 masak could somebody submit that as a rakudobug? I'm about to run off to catch a train.
12:40 eiro :)
12:40 masak eiro++ # indirectly uncovering bugs
12:40 eiro thanks
12:40 * moritz submits
12:41 moritz r: $_ 'herro eilo'; tr/rl/lr/; .say
12:41 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32m$_ [33mâ��[31m'herro eilo'; tr/rl/lr/; .say[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfix…»
12:41 moritz r: $_ = 'herro eilo'; tr/rl/lr/; .say
12:41 camelia rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'Str'␤»
12:41 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 230a54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No such method 'Str' for invocant of type 'NQPMu'␤»
12:41 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54: OUTPUT«hello eiro␤»
13:06 masak moritz++
13:07 masak herro flom a tlain! :P
13:07 masak perl6: y/lr/rl/
13:07 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Unsupported use of y///; in Perl 6 please use tr/// at /tmp/tmpfile line 1:�------> [32my[33m�[31m/lr/rl/[0m��Parse failed��»
13:07 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32my/lr/rl/[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        post…»
13:07 * masak submits LTA rakudobug
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13:44 masak somewhere we should probably put together a nice list of "OO done right" tends to consist of.
13:45 masak such lists will always be opinionated/subjective, but I have a feeling the people on #perl6 could reach an interesting/useful consensus.
13:45 masak some suggestions:
13:45 masak * doesn't use inheritance for everything (as per yesterday's discussion/SO thread)
13:45 masak * doesn't create abstractions/classes just because they have a real-world equivalent
13:46 masak * uses objects for somethings and functions for others, in a nice mix
13:46 masak * respects exceptions as first-class OO entities with potentially interesting fields/methods
13:47 masak * sees OO as a means to an end, on par with (and often combinable with) FP, logic programming, and Just Plain Procedural programming
13:49 masak * sees the value of SRP/cohesion, and so doesn't try to make objects do too much
13:50 masak * recognizes that objects that actually uphold their invariants (and thus never get into an "invalid state") are much easier to program with in the long run
13:54 jnthn * tends to view the fields inside the object as a representation of the concept being modeled by the object, and keeps them sufficiencly encapsulated that it's easy to change representation when new behaviors are required
13:56 jnthn Seems that the models we are most confident in tend to want to escape object boundaries, though, such that you end up with a very stable data structure and many things manipulating it (ala Git)
13:58 masak *nod*
13:58 masak see also Unix files/pipes/processes
13:58 jnthn *nod*
13:59 masak I don't know what's up there, exactly. I think it's something to do with C programmers not really believing in encapsulation :)
13:59 masak Linus' quote about good programmers worrying about data structures is interesting in that regard.
13:59 masak if you encapsulate well, you shouldn't *need* to worry up-front about data structures, because you can always refactor.
13:59 jnthn Well, when I write C, I tend to find sometimes I'll have a struct and a bunch of functions you always use to manipulate it, and other times I'll have a struct I've no qualms about lots of things poking in to.
14:00 masak right.
14:00 jnthn The latter kind are where I expect a lot of stability.
14:00 masak it's two modes of thinking.
14:00 masak and only the former mode is really "represented" within OO thinking.
14:01 jnthn Functional thinking seems to lean more strongly towards the t'other.
14:01 jnthn I guess it could be argued that refactoring is easier on immutable data structures, though...
14:02 masak yeah, ADTs are meant to be destructured. that's how you use them.
14:02 timotimo anything happened today that needs to go on the p6weekly?
14:10 moritz not that I'm aware of
14:10 timotimo shame on you for slacking off! ;))
14:12 masak heh.
14:12 masak well, in our defense, it *is* Monday...
14:12 timotimo :)
14:12 timotimo you are pardoned
14:13 JimmyZ 16:34 <newbie_Perl6> 您好,我是一个Perl6的初学者,最近在阅读语言标准,想联系到您,并且想请教如何融入这个社区,请问能帮一下小 弟吗?
14:13 JimmyZ 16:40 <newbie_Perl6> 由于今天太晚了,如果您愿意帮一下小弟,能通过电邮和我联系吗,我的邮箱是
14:13 JimmyZ masak: ^^ :P
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14:16 * moritz might contribute something to the discussion if it were in English
14:18 JimmyZ it's easy by google translation
14:18 masak moritz: I think this is a copy-paste of an original discussion.
14:18 masak moritz: so it's not to exclude you specifically :)
14:19 JimmyZ well, someone msged to me through there when I was not online
14:19 JimmyZ s/there/here/
14:19 masak moritz: the translation seems to be "if you will, please help a neophyte get started with Perl 6"
14:20 JimmyZ right
14:21 masak JimmyZ: need any action on my part? I'm always 很愿意帮助 :)
14:21 jnap joined #perl6
14:22 JimmyZ something like 'I will translate SYN to chinese' will be welcome :P
14:24 masak ehm.
14:24 masak th... thanks for your obviously high regard for my mastery of Chinese.
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14:25 masak I think such a task needs to be undertaken by a native speaker of the target language, though.
14:25 JimmyZ hehe :)
14:25 moritz and don't send newbies to perlcabal.org/syn/
14:25 moritz (unless that's what they are looking for)
14:26 JimmyZ yeah, He said he  is reading 语言标准
14:26 JimmyZ I think he meant SYN
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14:27 masak better to send them to http://perl6advent.wordpress.com if they want lots of examples.
14:27 masak or rosettacode.
14:27 * JimmyZ agress
14:28 JimmyZ btw: there are some chinese version articles of perl6advent
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14:28 masak ooh
14:29 JimmyZ http://www.php-oa.com/perl-6 here
14:29 yakudza php-oa hehehe
14:29 moritz there's also doc.perl6.org
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14:29 JimmyZ http://www.php-oa.com/category/perl/perl6
14:29 masak translating all of perl6advent would have a better benefit to the Chinese Perl 6 community than translating all of the Synoses, IMHO.
14:30 masak Synopses*
14:30 JimmyZ http://www.php-oa.com/2012/05/05/use-perl6-my-first-experience-with.html is chinese version of http://stevieb-tech.blogspot.de/2012/04/use-perl6-my-first-experience-with.html
14:33 timotimo so, what's the status of panda on moar now?
14:34 timotimo we can get the module list via sockets
14:34 timotimo but bootstrap is still b0rked?
14:34 jnthn timotimo: And the STable blocker got fixed, which also got it further
14:34 jnthn timotimo: Last I heard, it built but failed a test.
14:35 timotimo excellent :)
14:50 timotimo what is missing from nativecall on jvm now?
14:51 moritz CArray, iirc
14:51 timotimo CArray of specific things only, right?
14:52 moritz dunno
14:52 moritz just something arnsholt++ mentioned yesterday (or so)
14:53 timotimo right
14:53 timotimo i'm a journalist now
14:53 timotimo i don't have a reason to do research
14:54 moritz lol
14:55 moritz these lines together are hilarious
14:55 timotimo it's funny because it's true
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14:55 timotimo oh wait, there's actually a commit saying "implement remaining cases of CArray"
14:56 timotimo and "all that's remaining for JVM NativeCall now is nqp::nativecallrefresh"
14:56 timotimo which i don't really know what that's needed for
14:56 pmurias jnthn: you using ssa to optimize qast?
14:56 timotimo pmurias: probably mast instead of qast
14:56 timotimo also
14:56 timotimo o/ pmurias
14:57 pmurias timotimo: hi
14:58 JimmyZ ssa?
14:58 timotimo single static assignment
14:58 timotimo or static single assignment?
14:58 pmurias the first one
15:00 pmurias jnthn: I have played around with ssa for smop/mildew, and in my experience the data flow stuff (like hoopl) would be better for doing complex optimalisations like Perl 6 seems to need to optimize out the tricky stuff
15:02 pmurias jnthn: but the ssa stuff seems to be better for doing simple optimalisations efficently
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15:06 timotimo so, what little projects should i mention on the weekly this time?
15:06 timotimo in the "what's cooking" section
15:08 pmurias timotimo: is there a "this week in perl 6"?
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15:09 timotimo there now is :)
15:09 timotimo p6weekly.wordpress.com
15:09 timotimo last week was the first one i did
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15:21 timotimo http://p6weekly.wordpress.com/?p=59&amp;shareadraft=530228d9b1eba
15:23 moritz timotimo: you might want to mention what the varint branch actually does
15:23 moritz timotimo: otherwise: awesome
15:23 timotimo oh, right
15:25 timotimo i'm not happy about the "what's cooking" section, because it focuses so strongly on me
15:26 moritz maybe mention that gsoc ideas are cooking?
15:26 timotimo oh, that's a good idea
15:26 timotimo oh, how about a section "what you could do right now to get into perl6 development"?
15:26 timotimo like a little summary of LHF?
15:27 moritz +1
15:32 timotimo now i have to think a bit harder :P
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15:35 btyler timotimo: not that troll responses should deter you from writing what you want, but perhaps be wary of encouraging the 'perl 6 devs start lots of things and finish very few of them' meme
15:36 timotimo hah :)
15:36 timotimo seems like i've been predestined to be a perl 6 developer from the very beginning of my life then :)
15:37 timotimo but you're right about that. that blog isn't the right place for self-deprecation :P
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15:47 timotimo moritz: any LHF you can think of right now?
15:52 timotimo anyone else?
15:52 timotimo i had some ideas recently, but i forgot them again :|
15:53 TimToady if we say S09 is LHF, can we trick someone into doing it?
15:54 FROGGS timotimo: labels?
15:54 jnthn pmurias: No, not on QAST. On MoarVM bytecode.
15:57 pmurias jnthn: and specialisation is type inference?
15:58 jnthn pmurias: Well, it takes what is discovered at runtime, butfrom those starting points you can infer further things.
15:59 TimToady timotimo: straightening out .lol vs .tree might be LHF
15:59 jnthn uh, takes/will take/ :)
15:59 jnthn s/
15:59 jnthn :)
16:00 TimToady but it's gonna take a pass through to find everywhere that expects .tree to default to .lol rather than .tree(*)
16:01 TimToady well, it should probably be called Parcel of Parcels, but .pop is taken :)
16:01 pmurias jnthn: will that be a part of a jit?
16:01 * TimToady isn't awake yet, PoP is what it starts as, not what it finishes as
16:02 TimToady more like parcel of items, which would give us .poi  :)
16:02 jnthn pmurias: At first it will be used to produce specialized bytecode, but the same data structure it'll use will be the starting point for JIT too, yes
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16:04 TimToady timotimo: porting some socket-based stuff from P5 might be LHF now
16:05 TimToady oh, wait, we already had sockets, just not much on moarvm
16:07 jnthn Yeah, MoarVM just got them too.
16:07 TimToady making a Supply out of Posix signals?
16:07 jnthn Parrot and JVM had them for a while.
16:08 timotimo that's right
16:08 timotimo signals would be an interesting thing
16:09 * TimToady is having his morning paroxysmal coughing fit, so is a bit low on oxygen at the moment
16:09 timotimo TimToady: i was actually mostly interested in LHF for people who haven't done any perl6 yet
16:09 timotimo so things like .lol vs .tree seem a bit daunting :)
16:11 TimToady otoh, we obviously need someone who isn't familiar with Perl 6 but maybe familiar with APL who would think "What's so hard about S09?"  :)
16:11 SamuraiJack__ joined #perl6
16:12 TimToady or a C programmer who thinks native types are really easy :)
16:12 FROGGS *g*
16:14 arnsholt joined #perl6
16:14 arnsholt o/
16:15 timotimo :D
16:16 arnsholt timotimo: I checked the ir-clogs a bit back and saw your question
16:16 timotimo didn't mean to startle you :)
16:16 arnsholt The only thing missing is the refresh op, which should be pretty quick
16:16 timotimo Arnsholt has almost finished NativeCall for the JVM, the only thing missing now is the nqp::nativecallrefresh op which I don't even know what it does :P
16:16 timotimo this is what i wrote
16:16 arnsholt Yeah
16:16 arnsholt It's basically a way to force a re-read of native memory
16:17 arnsholt We cache the sixmodel objects for struct members and array elements, which means that sometimes the cache gets out of date and we need to flush it
16:17 TimToady .oO(is volatile)
16:19 arnsholt We check things after they've been passed to a native call, but sometimes it's not that simple
16:19 arnsholt But with last night's commits, DBIish should run
16:19 dmol joined #perl6
16:19 arnsholt Not sure if it'll run 100% correctly, but it should run
16:20 pmichaud Good morning, #perl6
16:20 nwc10 good UGT, pmichaud
16:20 TimToady o/
16:21 arnsholt timotimo: Implementing the refresh op is mostly a question of me reading the JNA docs a bit closer I think, after that a quick bout of hacking
16:22 jnthn o/ pmichaud
16:22 timotimo o/ pmichaud
16:22 nwc10 arnsholt: that sounds excellent
16:23 nwc10 arnsholt: so you're pretty close to making "JVM Star" SEP?
16:23 masak pmichaud! \o/
16:23 timotimo post publish'd
16:23 arnsholt nwc10: Indeed I am. And looking forward to it!
16:25 masak timotimo: url?
16:25 FROGGS hi pmichaud
16:26 timotimo p6weekly.wordpress.com
16:28 rjbs For "messing around and stuff," what's the recommended rakudo backend these days, if any?
16:29 masak timotimo: ah, http://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2014/02/17/changes-during-week-7-of-2014/ :)
16:29 masak timotimo++
16:29 masak also, ++timotimo for doing the Rakudo release this week.
16:29 grondilu joined #perl6
16:29 timotimo yays
16:30 nwc10 rjbs: I'd suggest Moar, unless it turns out you need nativecall
16:30 PerlJam rjbs: I've been using moarvm myself, but I think the jvm backend is still more featureful but with abysmal startup time.
16:30 masak who wants to do March? March is still wide open.
16:30 rjbs Okay, I'm ./configure-ing now, thanks.
16:30 masak I'll make a deal with someone who steps up: $someone does March, and I'll do April.
16:30 rjbs I thought I had a built p6, but I must've lost it at some point.
16:32 rjbs perl6: <<a b c>>.perl.say
16:32 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c")␤»
16:33 rjbs perl6: my @x = <a b c>; <<x @x z>>.perl.say
16:33 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«("x", "\@x", "z")␤»
16:33 vendethiel joined #perl6
16:33 rjbs That's the question I wanted to answer with perl6.  Is there a channel for bugging the bot without bugging the humans? :)
16:34 jnthn perl6: my @x = <a b c>; <<x @x[] z>>.perl.say
16:34 PerlJam rjbs: you can always msg the bot
16:34 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«("x", "a", "b", "c", "z").list␤»
16:34 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«("x", ("a", "b", "c").list, "z")␤»
16:34 rjbs jnthn: oh, nice, thank you
16:34 jnthn rjbs: Note that @foo needs a postcircumfix to interpolate
16:34 rjbs PerlJam: Thanks!  Although I guess if I didn't do that, jnthn wouldn't show me the light.
16:34 PerlJam indeed ;)
16:34 jnthn rjbs: Not just there, but in general.
16:34 rjbs I was thining earlier about what qqw would do in perl5 with arrays.
16:35 jnthn Means spam_me@jnthn.net doesn't accidentally try interpolating :)
16:35 rjbs jnthn: ugh, I know all about that problem. :(
16:36 PerlJam perl6: my @x = <a b c>; <<x {@x} z>>.perl.say
16:36 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«("x", "a", "b", "c", "z").list␤»
16:36 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«("x", ("a", "b", "c").list, "z")␤»
16:36 rjbs oh, yes, I forgot about {}, yeesh.  it's been too long since I wrote any p6!
16:37 PerlJam (for some reason I wasn't expecting all of them to give the same answer on that one.  yay perl6! :-)
16:37 TimToady one way or another, needs brackets :)
16:37 TimToady perl6: my @x = <a b c>; <<x $(@x) z>>.perl.say
16:37 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«("x", "a", "b", "c", "z").list␤»
16:37 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«("x", ("a", "b", "c").list, "z")␤»
16:37 TimToady perl6: my @x = <a b c>; <<x $(@x) z>>[1].perl.say
16:37 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«"a"␤»
16:38 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
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16:39 rjbs What's the $(...) do?  I'd have expected something like "put into item context and interpolate that", though I'm not even sure that makes sense.
16:39 rjbs Or, perhaps:  how are {...} and $(...) distinct there?
16:40 rjbs Huh.  (make: write error
16:40 jnthn Well, {...} introduces a lexical scope, while $(...) doesn't.
16:40 rjbs )  I guess I'll get perl6 built again after work. :)
16:40 btyler rjbs: yeah, apparently some goofy make issue. make install still works (and the 'write error' goes away if you  make install a second time)
16:40 jnthn And $(...) calls .item on the thing inside of it.
16:41 TimToady and in theory $() itemizes, but that doesn't seem to happen here
16:41 rjbs btyler: funny, thanks
16:41 pmichaud yeah, I think $(@x) is being interpreted wrongly there.
16:41 pmichaud I would've expected  "x", "a b c", "z"
16:42 rjbs perl6: my @x = <a b c>; <<x $(1;@x) z>>.perl.say
16:42 pmichaud no... hmm
16:42 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«("x", "a", "b", "c", "z").list␤»
16:42 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of constant integer 1 in sink context (line 1)␤("x", ("a", "b", "c").list, "z")␤»
16:42 pmichaud I would've expected "x", ["a", "b", "c"], "z"
16:42 rjbs Interesting, so I can have more than one statement inside $(...) but there's no scope created?
16:42 jnthn rjbs: correct
16:42 rjbs Thanks.  #perl6 is helpful as always!
16:44 TimToady p6: say "foo$( my $x = 42; '' )bar"; say $x
16:44 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«foobar␤42␤»
16:44 TimToady p6: say "foo{ my $x = 42; '' }bar"; say $x
16:44 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Variable '$x' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32msay "foo{ my $x = 42; '' }bar"; say $x[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any o…»
16:44 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Variable $x is not predeclared at /tmp/tmpfile line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "foo{ my $x = 42; '' }bar"; say [33mâ��[31m$x[0mâ�¤â�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  $x is declared but not used at /tmp/tmpfile line 1:â�¤--…»
16:45 TimToady $() is particularly useful to interpolate a $^placeholder
16:45 TimToady well, when you have to process it somehow, since $^placeholder would interpolate itself
16:48 PerlJam p6: my @x = <a b c>; <<x @(@x) z>>.perl.say
16:48 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«("x", "\@(\@x)", "z")␤»
16:48 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«("x", "a", "b", "c", "z").list␤»
16:48 PerlJam curious.
16:48 timotimo isn't <<...>> known to not work properly on rakudo?
16:48 timotimo not exactly an LHF, is it?
16:50 TimToady PerlJam: @() does not count the () as a final subscript, so you need @()[]
16:50 PerlJam oh.
16:53 sqirrel__ joined #perl6
16:54 TimToady $() works 'cause it's a $, not because of the (); in general we always consider sigil plus () to be equivalent to sigil plus name
16:54 TimToady so @() is equivalent to @foo there
16:55 jnthn Aye; falls out of @(...) being parsed by token variable, iirc
16:55 TimToady nodnod
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17:16 masak r: say "OH $( class Joiner { has @.pieces handles 'join' }; Joiner.new(:pieces<H A I>).join )"
17:16 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
17:16 masak \o/
17:20 masak r: say "OH $( q[only pay attention to tHe capitAlized letters In this sentence].comb(/<[A..Z]>/).join )"
17:20 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
17:23 masak r: say "OH $( my regex capitals { /<[A..Z]>/ }; q[only pay attention to tHe capitAlized letters In this sentence].comb(capitals).join )"
17:23 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter / (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32msay "OH $( my regex capitals { [33m�[31m/<[A..Z]>/ }; q[only pay attenti…»
17:23 hoverboard joined #perl6
17:23 masak ghh.
17:23 masak r: say "OH $( my regex capitals { <[A..Z]> }; q[only pay attention to tHe capitAlized letters In this sentence].comb(capitals).join )"
17:23 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤  in regex capitals at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
17:24 masak r: say "OH $( my regex capitals { <[A..Z]> }; q[only pay attention to tHe capitAlized letters In this sentence].comb(&capitals).join )"
17:24 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
17:24 masak \o/
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18:02 benabik joined #perl6
18:03 timotimo so little going on today here :(
18:03 xenoterracide joined #perl6
18:04 moritz you have high standards :-)
18:04 timotimo yeah, i guess
18:04 mcglk joined #perl6
18:05 vendethiel joined #perl6
18:06 raydiak we could spontaneously burst into a musical number....
18:06 TimToady .oO(Spam, spam, spam, spam...)
18:07 btyler timotimo: here's something: "==> Successfully installed panda" (moarvm)
18:07 timotimo \o/
18:07 btyler just needed a placeholder .moarvm file in the compiled__module test
18:08 timotimo i'm now annoyed by overscan on my "tv"
18:08 timotimo i'd have to figure out a proper affine transformation matrix to make it work, but that's work :|
18:09 raydiak your tv lets you input transformation matrices?
18:10 jnthn timotimo: Sounds like a fine idea... ;)
18:10 TimToady some video drivers give you an overscan/underscan adjustment
18:10 geekosaur which is still a hack
18:10 Rotwang joined #perl6
18:12 timotimo raydiak: xrandr does
18:12 geekosaur not all drivers support xrandr (or support it fully) though
18:12 timotimo right. this is an intel graphics card, though :)
18:13 timotimo sadly when doing specific changes to the matrix the output will turn off and on briefly at least on this device
18:13 timotimo so i can't use it to make a wildly spinning desktop with it :P
18:14 raydiak there has to be a compiz plugin for that :P
18:14 timotimo most probably
18:14 * geekosaur wonders if there's a cairo-compmgr plugin
18:14 geekosaur probably not...
18:15 timotimo there may be
18:15 raydiak compiz has the market cornered on useless plugins (in addition to having some very handy ones)
18:17 raydiak I didn't even know cairo-compmgr had plugins
18:17 rjbs (Thanks again for the help, I have a working ./perl6-m now.)
18:18 rjbs btyler++
18:19 timotimo \o/
18:19 btyler rjbs: sweet, have fun :)
18:23 btyler tadzik/FROGGS: sent a pull request which fixes the failing panda test on moar-support
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support: fdee20a | (Ben Tyler)++ | lib/foo.moarvm b/testmodules/compiled__module/blib/lib/foo.moarvm:
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support: Add a fake .moarvm file to the compiled module test dir.
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support:
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support: This fixes the failing test under MoarVM.
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/fdee20a84d
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support: 441d2ce | tadzik++ | lib/foo.moarvm b/testmodules/compiled__module/blib/lib/foo.moarvm:
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support: Merge pull request #67 from kanatohodets/moar-support
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support:
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support: Add a fake .moarvm file to the compiled module test dir.
18:26 dalek panda/moar-support: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/441d2ce52c
18:26 tadzik btyler: I should've probably checked or asked earlier, but did you check if it breaks other platforms? :P
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: 2a13276 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/NQP/Optimizer.nqp:
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: try to turn lexicals into locals.
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2a13276456
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: 63945cb | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/NQP/Optimizer.nqp:
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: first version to pass rakudo spectests
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/63945cbcd3
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: 7e670d4 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/NQP/Optimizer.nqp:
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: handle the outermost block as well. it's special.
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/7e670d4592
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: 48f6dbf | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/NQP/Optimizer.nqp:
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: merge two implementations of find_lex.
18:28 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/48f6dbffaf
18:28 btyler I didn't...apologies. I can check on my windows vm later today
18:28 tadzik it probably won't, as there's a similar one for jvm :)
18:28 tadzik btyler++ # good job
18:29 btyler that was my thinking, but then I started wondering about treatment of empty files on various platforms...
18:29 btyler anyways, thanks for merging so quickly :) tadzik++
18:32 FROGGS[mobile] \o/
18:33 kivutar joined #perl6
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18:45 FROGGS joined #perl6
18:49 timotimo my brain is a bit derped today, not having much luck with the block inlining code-design wise :|
18:52 dalek panda/eleven: 359402d | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Fetcher.pm:
18:52 dalek panda/eleven: moar does not like to take a substr OOB
18:52 dalek panda/eleven: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/359402dbc1
18:52 dalek panda/eleven: 3c47a06 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Common.pm:
18:52 dalek panda/eleven: fix spello
18:52 FROGGS sorry dalek
18:52 dalek joined #perl6
18:53 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 30 commits to rakudo/eleven by FROGGS
19:00 dalek rakudo/eleven: 6d53dd9 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/JSON/Pretty.pm:
19:00 dalek rakudo/eleven: fix for flat $/.ast
19:00 dalek rakudo/eleven:
19:00 dalek rakudo/eleven: See https://github.com/moritz/json/commit/601d2a3b13e2f0dbe61a3083b77c69d708c6f133
19:00 dalek rakudo/eleven: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6d53dd901c
19:01 lue Is there a way I can find the line on which a match was made? Something like $/.line-from ?
19:02 PerlJam I don't think anything in the matching mechanics tracks "lines"
19:03 lue Could also be something like $str.pos-to-line($/.from), doesn't have to be specifically in $/  :)
19:04 moritz lue: $/.prematch.comb("\n").elems + 1
19:04 PerlJam moritz++ you beat me to it :)
19:05 FROGGS nqp/src/HLL/Compiler.nqp:538:method lineof($target, int $pos, int :$cache = 0) {
19:05 lue r: say "a\n\nb\nc" ~~ /c/; say $/; say $/.prematch.comb("\n").elems + 1'
19:05 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32m$/; say $/.prematch.comb("\n").elems + 1[33mâ��[31m'[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        â€¦Â»
19:06 lue r: say "a\n\nb\nc" ~~ /c/; say $/; say $/.prematch.comb("\n").elems + 1
19:06 camelia rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«「c」␤␤「c」␤␤Cannot call 'comb'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Cool: *%_)␤:(Cool: Regex $matcher, Any $limit = { ... }, *%_)␤:(Str:D: *%_)␤:(Str:D: Regex $pat, Any $limit = { ... }, Any :match($match), *%_)␤  in method comb at sr…»
19:06 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54: OUTPUT«「c」␤␤「c」␤␤Cannot call 'comb'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Cool: *%_)␤:(Cool: Regex $matcher, Any $limit = { ... }, *%_)␤:(Str:D: *%_)␤:(Str:D: Regex $pat, Any $limit = { ... }, Any :match($match), *%_)␤  in any  at gen/par…»
19:06 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 230a54: OUTPUT«「c」␤␤「c」␤␤Cannot call 'comb'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Cool: *%_)␤:(Cool: Regex $matcher, Any $limit = { ... }, *%_)␤:(Str:D: *%_)␤:(Str:D: Regex $pat, Any $limit = { ... }, Any :match($match), *%_)␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BO…»
19:06 FROGGS r: say "a\n\nb\nc" ~~ /c/; say $/; say $/.prematch.Str.comb("\n").elems + 1
19:06 camelia rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«「c」␤␤「c」␤␤Cannot call 'comb'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Cool: *%_)␤:(Cool: Regex $matcher, Any $limit = { ... }, *%_)␤:(Str:D: *%_)␤:(Str:D: Regex $pat, Any $limit = { ... }, Any :match($match), *%_)␤  in method comb at sr…»
19:06 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54: OUTPUT«「c」␤␤「c」␤␤Cannot call 'comb'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Cool: *%_)␤:(Cool: Regex $matcher, Any $limit = { ... }, *%_)␤:(Str:D: *%_)␤:(Str:D: Regex $pat, Any $limit = { ... }, Any :match($match), *%_)␤  in any  at gen/par…»
19:06 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 230a54: OUTPUT«「c」␤␤「c」␤␤Cannot call 'comb'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Cool: *%_)␤:(Cool: Regex $matcher, Any $limit = { ... }, *%_)␤:(Str:D: *%_)␤:(Str:D: Regex $pat, Any $limit = { ... }, Any :match($match), *%_)␤  in any  at gen/jvm/BO…»
19:07 FROGGS r: say "a\n\nb\nc" ~~ /c/; say $/; say $/.prematch.comb(/\n/).elems + 1
19:07 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«「c」␤␤「c」␤␤4␤»
19:09 dalek rakudo/eleven: f24fd83 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
19:09 dalek rakudo/eleven: handle .jar and .moarvm file extensions
19:09 dalek rakudo/eleven: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f24fd83447
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19:19 lue I've been wondering: could/should the synopses become a part of doc.perl6.org ?
19:23 moritz lue: no. They are not written for users, but for compiler writers.
19:23 lue Ah, alright. Guess I'm too used to the synopses then :P
19:24 FROGGS and since the synopsis do not match the implementation(s), it might be confusing for a user to read it
19:24 PerlJam There should still probably be a link to the synopses with a nice "proceed with caution" message
19:25 PerlJam we have all different manner of "users", some of them would benefit from the synopses.
19:25 * geekosaur inserts the TeX swerve sign
19:25 moritz PerlJam: I'm open to "read more" links to the synopses
19:26 moritz and maybe a link on the front page
19:26 moritz but I don't want doc.perl6.org to be a www.perl6.org-style link collection
19:27 PerlJam aye, agreed 100% on that.
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19:40 btyler where's the appropriate place to file a bug against perl6-debug-m? I get a segfault when debugging a program that reads lines from an open file: https://gist.github.com/kanatohodets/1866987aa59b59931873
19:41 lue btyler: at least for me, it just segfaults, I don't think a specific piece of P6 code does it.
19:41 FROGGS it was working yesterday O.o
19:44 btyler lue: hm, not sure what's up. I'm on OSX. I was trying to debug a grammar and had already golfed the grammar itself down to a TOP and one token, so decided to try removing the other significant bit (the open/read) and it stopped segfaulting. does the gist I posted segfault for others?
19:45 FROGGS ~/dev/rakudo$ perl6-debug-m
19:45 FROGGS > 1
19:45 FROGGS >>> LOADING <REPL 1>
19:45 lue Ooh, I might have been encountering the segfault on        USAGE unless [&&] ($backlinks, $synopses, $outdir)».IO».d;
19:47 vendethiel moritz: not that there's lots of stuff for users :p. So I've been reading synopsis, it's cool
19:47 lue btyler: I get a segfault with your code.
19:48 vendethiel When there'll be tutorials (more in-depth), I can agree that synopsis would be a bit too complex/deep for users
19:48 FROGGS btyler: RT would be the right place
19:48 vendethiel but as of right now, for users your main source of informations is perl6advent (read up to 2011) and the synopsis
19:49 btyler FROGGS: ok, thanks.
19:51 moritz vendethiel: the goal of doc.perl6.org is to change that
19:51 moritz and yes, I know we're not there yet :-)
19:52 vendethiel moritz: that's API docs, pretty different from synopsis. I do think it should link to them
19:53 moritz vendethiel: not only API docs
19:53 moritz for example http://doc.perl6.org/language/containers
19:53 moritz or http://doc.perl6.org/language/classtut
19:54 moritz yes, we need more of those :-)
19:55 lue moritz: is there a list of "Most Wanted Documentation" ?
19:56 vendethiel moritz: most definitely ! :)
19:56 vendethiel moritz: I'm still not sure about what \x means (I guess a parcel ?) or some other rules (container stuff)
19:57 moritz lue: not really; I could start such a list if you are interested
19:57 moritz vendethiel: it means "bind that thing, whatever it is"
19:57 vendethiel moritz: like := ?N
19:57 moritz if there's a container, it contains a container. If there's a value, it contains a value
19:57 lue moritz: I'd like to write some documentation, though I can't think of a specific topic, so MWD would be nice :)
19:57 moritz if you give it a parcel, it'll be a parcel
19:57 moritz lue: would you like to write a concurrency tutorial?
19:58 moritz lue: or about creating classes and the like via the MOP?
19:58 moritz lue: or about lazy lists?
19:59 lue moritz: I'd probably go with lazy lists, because that's the one I have the most existing knowledge in :) .
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20:02 raydiak lue: http://perldoc.perl.org/perl.html # port the things listed here to P6 :)
20:05 dalek doc: aeb06d8 | moritz++ | WANTED:
20:05 dalek doc: add WANTED
20:05 dalek doc:
20:05 dalek doc: lue, take your pick :-)
20:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/aeb06d85ac
20:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: 618c0bd | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
20:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: add -m wrapper too
20:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/618c0bdb28
20:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: 87f37d5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo (2 files):
20:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: consider .jvm/.moarvm candidates besides .pir
20:05 dalek rakudo/eleven: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/87f37d5f5d
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20:14 lue In related news, my synopses generator functions, at least to the point of placing backlinks under the appropriate section header. I've been calling it "syngen", though if you want it as a different name under perl6/*, that's fine by me.
20:14 lue Afterwards I can start a pod6ify branch on specs/ to bring the other synopses to Pod6.
20:16 masak lue++
20:20 lue masak: does perl6/syngen sound alright to you?
20:22 masak no idea. haven't been following along.
20:22 masak what is it and why does it belong under the perl6 namespace?
20:23 lue It's meant to replace the crusty old POD synopses generator we have, and IIRC moritz wanted something that could be maintained by many people, which is easier under perl6/ than lue/ :)
20:23 masak ok, sounds good to me.
20:24 masak syngen or syn-gen sound fine to me, if a bit short.
20:24 masak synopsis-generator is a bunch clearer.
20:24 masak but here I am, bikeshedding. it's not like the name can't be changed later.
20:24 PerlJam I thought TimToady was our synopsis generator?  :)
20:25 lue I'll go with the long form, clarity > compactness in this situation, I feel.
20:25 lue "You don't appear to have permission to create repositories for this organization. Sorry about that. "  way to entice me with an "Add Repository" button, github.
20:26 lue (I was gonna call it "synopses-generator", if someone out there will create the repo)
20:26 masak lue: maybe add it to your github account first, and worry about the creation-in-perl6 later?
20:27 masak (also, I humbly suggest synops*i*s-generator, not synops*e*s-generator)
20:27 lue masak: could do that, there's a "Transfer Ownership" button I could push later, if I were an admin to Perl 6.
20:27 FROGGS perl6-m -e 'use JSON::Tiny; say from-json "/home/froggs/dev/nqp/install/languages/perl6/site/panda/projects.json".IO.slurp'
20:27 FROGGS ("" => []).hash ("" => []).hash ("" => []).hash ("" => []).hash ("" => [""]).hash ("" => []).hash ("" => []).hash ("" => []).hash ("" => []).hash[...]
20:27 * lue for some reason doesn't want perl6/ to have this repo as a fork, and thus is desperate to make sure perl6 owns the original eventually :)
20:27 FROGGS :o(
20:28 lue masak: I was just thinking that it generates more than one synopsis, but I can go with "synopsis"
20:28 masak lue: or, you know, the one who creates the repo on perl6 could just push (a clone of) your repo to it ;)
20:29 lue :)
20:29 masak lue: a machine that generates hats is still called a hat-generator, not a hats-generator
20:29 lue Yeah, I see your point.
20:29 PerlJam "syngen" would have avoided all this discussion  ;)
20:30 masak :P
20:31 lue Ready to be picked apart! \o/  https://github.com/lue/synopsis-generator
20:32 lue I think I'll start that pod6ify branch in a minute, if no-one objects...
20:32 FROGGS star: use JSON::Tiny; say to-json 1
20:32 camelia star 2013-09: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:32 FROGGS star: use JSON::Tiny; say from-json to-json 1
20:32 camelia star 2013-09: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
20:34 moritz lue: which backends does it work with?
20:34 lue All but moar, because moar has a bug in the regex lang at the moment.
20:35 lue (a bug which is narrowed down to the 'frag' rule, but no narrower)
20:35 lue Basically, the ending > in things like L<S02/sec/frag> gets picked up by 'frag' when it shouldn't (L«S02/sec/frag» and L<S02/sec> work though)
20:37 moritz lue: what is the --backlinks option about?
20:38 lue That points to the directory containing test files with L<> backlinks, usually roast (or bltest for fast testing)
20:38 moritz so, backlinks = smartlinks?
20:39 lue yes. I can change the terminology if necessary.
20:39 moritz not necessary
20:40 moritz if roast is the "normal" use case, mention it in the docs/usage message
20:41 arnsholt joined #perl6
20:41 dalek doc: 3a608da | (Prog Rammer)++ | lib/AST.pod:
20:41 dalek doc: within typo
20:41 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3a608daf63
20:41 dalek doc: 718f98a | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/AST.pod:
20:41 dalek doc: Merge pull request #15 from prammer1/typos
20:41 dalek doc:
20:41 dalek doc: within typo
20:41 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/718f98afb0
20:42 FROGGS Prog Rammer, lol *g*
20:43 FROGGS star: use JSON::Tiny; say from-json q/{ "a" : "b" }/
20:43 camelia star 2013-09: OUTPUT«("a" => "b").hash␤»
20:43 FROGGS this is broken on my perl6-m
20:44 jnthn Ugh
20:44 Mouq joined #perl6
20:44 jnthn Golf time ;)
20:44 FROGGS damn, precomp messes it up :/
20:45 * lue &
20:46 * moritz can't bootstrap panda with perl6-j, tests fail in t/tester.t (after using up enough RAM to make the laptop sluggish)
20:47 Adriaaan joined #perl6
20:48 moritz http://perlpunks.de/paste/show/5302758f.7675.199
20:51 moritz r: say 'a' ~~ /^<![b]>/
20:51 camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«「」␤␤»
20:51 * moritz doesn't understand token frag
20:53 moritz if $*GUILLEMETS is true, then it matches: "the following character must not be a »", and then either any character, or »
20:53 moritz erm, what?
20:56 moritz why not do something like  <?{$*GUILLEMETS}> <-[»]>+ | <!{$*GUILLEMETS}> <-[>]>+
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21:01 cooper joined #perl6
21:07 moritz or get rid of dynamic variables altogether, and simply say  '<' ( <-[>]>+ '>' | '«' ( <-[»]>+ ) '»'
21:07 FROGGS there is a ) missing
21:08 moritz right
21:08 moritz it be before '>'
21:08 moritz *should
21:08 FROGGS yeah
21:08 moritz '<' ( <-[>]>+ ) '>' | '«' ( <-[»]>+ ) '»'
21:09 moritz possibly refactor the the inner capture into two different subrules
21:09 btyler moritz: perl6-j panda 'make test' worked ok for me. rakudo 230a54b, nqp 28b9c2, panda 934a4f3.
21:09 moritz '<' <frag=frag-ascii> '>' | '«' <frag=frag-guillemets> '»'
21:09 btyler trying bootstrap now (first ran it on moar-support by accident), it just takes a while
21:10 btyler was the verbose test output any more helpful?
21:11 moritz btyler: I don't even know how to get from bootstrap
21:14 btyler moritz: hm, sorry, not sure I understand
21:14 raydiak shouldn't we delete the rakudo moar-support branch since its been merged?
21:15 raydiak *it's
21:17 moritz raydiak: we should
21:17 vendethiel moritz: also, http://doc.perl6.org/language/classtut, should have .bless(* <- whatever must be removed now, right?
21:17 moritz vendethiel: right
21:18 vendethiel PR'd :p
21:18 dalek doc: 76044ba | moritz++ | lib/classtut.pod:
21:18 dalek doc: bless(*) is deprecated, vendethiel++
21:18 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/76044baeb2
21:21 lue moritz: yeah, when trying to figure out what went wrong, I noticed how weird that was. I think it's supposed to match "any one character or \> / \»". Thought I fixed that, but seems I didn't.
21:22 FROGGS jnthn: okay, there is no precomp issue, it is just that the eleven branch ships its own JSON::Tiny which messes with the installed one
21:22 jnthn FROGGS: ah...
21:23 jnthn phew :)
21:23 jnthn So can you actually install a module with Panda?
21:23 jnthn On Moar?
21:23 FROGGS jnthn: so, it seems like I can install panda (and its deps) into a repository, and I have now panda-m and panda-p executables
21:23 FROGGS I am trying in a sec
21:24 FROGGS ==> Successfully installed JSON::Pretty
21:24 FROGGS \o/
21:24 FROGGS jnthn: yes --^
21:26 FROGGS I did it in the "eleven" branches, because panda/master will invoke perl6, which is perl6-p on my box
21:26 FROGGS and the eleven branch handles multiple backends better
21:26 hoelzro timotimo: postjes
21:26 hoelzro er
21:26 hoelzro that was supposed to be timotimo++
21:26 hoelzro lemme try again
21:27 hoelzro timotimo++ # postje
21:31 lue moritz: hopefully this makes more sense now: https://github.com/lue/synopsis-generator/commit/ade2816b18de4573b049ca1f727dc8100fce242f
21:31 lue (interestingly, things aren't more or less broken than before that change)
21:33 lue I'll take the dynamic-less approach into consideration; I just wanted to make sure we weren't checking for the wrong closer when I wrote the grammar.
21:36 labster joined #perl6
21:37 dalek rakudo/eleven: 13635b4 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/JSON/Pretty.pm:
21:37 dalek rakudo/eleven: choose names that do not hide JSON::Tiny
21:37 dalek rakudo/eleven: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/13635b47fe
21:38 dalek doc: e5d116a | Mouq++ | lib/Set.pod:
21:38 dalek doc: Document some more Set operators
21:38 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e5d116a476
21:38 dalek doc: 2e116e2 | Mouq++ | lib/Set.pod:
21:38 dalek doc: Links should point to L«infix:<(*)>», not L<(*)>
21:38 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2e116e28c1
21:38 dalek doc: 9f194bf | Mouq++ | lib/Set.pod:
21:38 dalek doc: Finish bare-bones documentation for Set operators
21:38 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9f194bf0b4
21:38 dalek doc: 80fc869 | Mouq++ | lib/classtut.pod:
21:38 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
21:38 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/80fc869305
21:38 Mouq ^^ My spend tuits for today
21:38 Mouq *spent
21:39 Mouq I'm not actually a good documentation writer, but my hope here is that some documentation is better than none
21:40 TimToady Mouq++
21:40 arnsholt Some documentation is better than none, and if someone complains about the documentation they volunteer to make it better =)
21:42 sjn joined #perl6
21:45 jnthn REally happy to see lots of docs work recently :)
21:46 lue jnthn: especially since it implies the biggest priority is not a working compiler :)
21:47 sjn \o
21:47 sjn jnthn: you mentioned another trip to Oslo, didn't you? :)
21:47 beastd joined #perl6
21:48 sjn next week?
21:49 jnthn sjn: Nah...not got anymore travel this month, it turns out.
21:49 jnthn sjn: Got a (not 100% confirmed) Oslo visit next month.
21:54 hoelzro what's the eleven branch?
21:54 jnthn You switch to it, and Panda plays Spinal Tap.
21:55 hoelzro ok, that's what I thought.
21:55 hoelzro =P
21:55 jnthn I think it's a reference to S11, though :)
22:02 arnsholt jnthn: Which bit of March is your potential Oslo visit?
22:02 jnthn lemme check
22:02 jnthn I'd be teaching 17th/18th
22:03 jnthn So could meet on evening of 17th easily
22:03 sjn jnthn: ook, cool
22:03 sjn hmm
22:03 sjn 17th, eh
22:04 sjn jnthn: courses again?
22:04 jnthn Of course. :)
22:04 jnthn And not Git, for once!
22:05 arnsholt I saw a recording of a guy showing how to write .Net assembly and his first program wrote "OH HAI"
22:05 arnsholt I wonder if he may have taken one of your courses =D
22:06 jnthn That *is* the kinda thing that might show up in one of my courses.
22:06 * jnthn is writing *loads* of examples up at the moment and has some fun things :)
22:06 sjn jnthn: what's your schedule for March 19th? :)
22:07 jnthn sjn: Madly writing yet more course material, says le schedule :)
22:07 * sjn hopes damian is in Oslo that week
22:07 jnthn sjn: I seem to recall you mentioning something was happening around that date...
22:07 jnthn Ah, that was it.
22:08 sjn arnsholt: did Damian reply to you yet?
22:09 arnsholt Not yet. Still pretty early in the day his time though, assuming he's still in .au
22:09 sjn mm
22:09 arnsholt Besides, I expect he gets lots of mail, so some latency is probably to be expected
22:10 * sjn is arriving from the QA hackathon around 22-ish on march 17th
22:10 lue Is TheDamian still involved with Perl 6? I can't tell, because he apparently doesn't IRC.
22:10 sjn plane lands at 21:15
22:13 sjn jnthn: let's see what we can make happen :)
22:14 sjn jnthn: in any case; Damian is definitely here the week after (March 24-28), and has said he might be able to come in the week before
22:15 sjn arnsholt and I (mostly arnsholt) are trying to make something happen at UiO
22:16 jnthn 263
22:16 jnthn uh
22:16 masak jnthn: at least!
22:16 sjn so arnsholt would also like to see if you or masak would like to come :)
22:16 sjn and/or
22:16 * masak .oO( /win 263 )
22:16 jnthn sjn: OK, hmm.
22:16 sjn timing permitted and stuff
22:16 jnthn masak: It's, uh, the number of minutes by train from London to Edinburgh :P
22:17 masak sjn: doubtful in my case, as much as I'd like to.
22:17 masak sjn: I'll add it to my calendar just in case.
22:18 masak 'night, #perl6
22:18 dalek specs: 03d49e0 | lue++ | c (2 files):
22:18 dalek specs: Make create_contents.p6 generate a valid Pod6 file.
22:18 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/03d49e0e6a
22:18 sjn masak: well, part of the thing is that (if all goes well) we get to give a Perl 6 presentation for the staff and students at the Informatics dept. at UiO
22:18 * sjn needs to hit the sack too
22:18 lue ♞ masak o/
22:18 lue ♞ sjn o/
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22:41 jnthn lue: Got a link to that failing grammar and some test input handy?
22:43 lue jnthn: everything you need is here: https://github.com/lue/synopsis-generator   I can pull out the grammar and make a test script if you'd prefer though.
22:45 jnthn lue: Yes, that'd be great if I've something I can just run.
22:45 lue just a moment :)
22:49 lue jnthn: here you go: https://gist.github.com/lue/9060818
22:52 jnthn lue: Thanks
22:53 lue Oh, I didn't realize L<S**/Sec only> was failing, seems it only works with L<S**/"Sec only">. (There's no similar double-quote handling for frag, so it wouldn't/shouldn't work in that portion)
22:54 dalek roast: 33ba343 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S04-exception-handlers/catch.t:
22:54 dalek roast: Fix syntax error in catch.t
22:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/33ba34387f
22:55 berekuk joined #perl6
22:55 jnthn lue: OK, I see the difference in output of that between rp and rm.
22:55 lue jnthn: updated the gist with two more tests
22:56 jnthn lue: Those bottom two already work on Moar, yes?
22:56 jnthn It's 1 and 3 that don't?
22:57 lue yes, L<Syn/"Sec"> works everywhere. It's L<Syn/Sec> and L<Syn/*/Frag> that don't work
22:58 hoelzro mokudo is still awaiting socket support, yes?
23:00 timotimo nope
23:00 timotimo we have that :)
23:00 jnthn hoelzro: Has TCP client/server sockets as of Sunday.
23:00 timotimo didn't you read my weekly changes post? :P
23:03 jnthn lue: Think I found it. Working on a fix.
23:03 lue ooh! Can't wait to see what caused it :) .
23:05 hoelzro sweeeet
23:05 hoelzro timotimo: I must've missed that part =/
23:12 jnthn lue: spectesting a patch that seems to fix it.
23:18 colomon joined #perl6
23:22 jnthn hoelzro: t\spec\S04-exception-handlers\catch.t
23:22 jnthn Parse errors: Bad plan.  You planned 28 tests but ran 29.
23:23 dalek nqp: 17bf0fd | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTRegexCompilerMAST.nqp:
23:23 dalek nqp: Add missing decont of qastnode rxtype.
23:23 dalek nqp:
23:23 dalek nqp: Assertions <?{$*FOO}> and <!{$*FOO}> didn't work out properly; the
23:23 dalek nqp: Scalar container was tested instead of the contents.
23:23 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/17bf0fdb5e
23:24 hoelzro jnthn: I just pushed a fix for that about 30 mins about
23:24 timotimo ah! :)
23:24 timotimo jnthn: it seems like adding decont() everywhere makes stuff work instead of break
23:24 timotimo should we just replace each line with nqp::decont($0);?
23:25 jnthn timotimo: Well, you can't just throw it everywhere... :)
23:25 jnthn hoelzro: You fixed the test, but not the plan.
23:25 hoelzro oh, crap =/
23:26 hoelzro working on it
23:26 jnthn lue: That NQP fix should do it.
23:26 dalek roast: 32602d2 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S04-exception-handlers/catch.t:
23:26 dalek roast: Fix plan for catch.t
23:26 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/32602d27dc
23:26 hoelzro ok, done
23:26 * lue tries it
23:26 jnthn r: use Test; my $*x = 0; nok '' ~~ /<?{$*x}>/;
23:26 camelia rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤»
23:26 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
23:27 arnsholt Whee! Refreshing!
23:27 jnthn lue: It golfs to ^ :)
23:28 lue jnthn: what's funny is that I had a feeling that <?{}> was what causing it, if only because it's the most exotic regex feature I used :P
23:29 jnap joined #perl6
23:30 dalek roast: 5386c20 | jnthn++ | S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.t:
23:30 dalek roast: Test for contextuals in <?{...}> assertions.
23:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5386c2055c
23:31 arnsholt jnthn: What's the purpose of the class_handle parameter to the get and bind attribute REPRops? All of a sudden I wonder if I'm not doing it rong
23:31 dalek rakudo/nom: 3062617 | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
23:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Latest NQP, for <?{$*x}> fix.
23:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/30626175ab
23:31 jnthn arnsholt: class A { has $!x }; class B is A { has $!x };
23:31 jnthn arnsholt: It's what tells you which $!x
23:32 arnsholt Ah, right
23:32 jnthn lue: Hopefully now your thingy runs on Moar :)
23:32 arnsholt I have no idea what'll happen if we start subclassing CStructs
23:33 arnsholt Hilarity (and segfaults), no doubt
23:33 lue :) it'll take ≈quarter-hour before I can see ('cos I still insist on having r-p for some reason), but I believe it'll work all the same.
23:33 jnthn Floods! Locust plagues! Haskell programmers switching to PHP!
23:33 timotimo wow, that's harsh
23:33 * arnsholt makes a Zavolaj issue to remember to find out
23:34 jnthn timotimo: Dont' subclass CStructs then :P
23:35 raiph joined #perl6
23:35 * jnthn tries to remember if there were any other bugs he'd said he'd fix...
23:36 jnthn hoelzro: catch.t looks fine now, thanks.
23:37 skids joined #perl6
23:40 lue For converting the synopses to Pod6, would it be more worthwhile to write a POD2Pod script? I at least am not much in the spirit to convert S02 by hand :P
23:42 dalek zavolaj: db4fee8 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | t/07-writebarrier.t:
23:42 dalek zavolaj: Remove bogus refresh test.
23:42 dalek zavolaj:
23:42 dalek zavolaj: The test checked that a covertly modified struct member wasn't discovered
23:42 dalek zavolaj: until after we explicitly call for a refresh, but that's probably not
23:42 dalek zavolaj: something we want to require.
23:42 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/db4fee8903
23:43 * arnsholt crosses fingers and runs the full NativeCall test suite
23:50 dalek zavolaj: 6c38010 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | t/07-writebarrier.t:
23:50 dalek zavolaj: Also update test count. Derp.
23:50 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/6c38010e42
23:50 dalek nqp: 9635b9f | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/vm/jvm/ (5 files):
23:50 dalek nqp: Implement nqp::nativecallrefresh() and related logic.
23:50 dalek nqp:
23:50 dalek nqp: This is a first rough version that simply clears all the caches, all the time,
23:50 dalek nqp: whenever a refresh is required. That's probably going to be a bit slow, as we
23:50 dalek nqp: refresh all function arguments after the call, to guard for functions that
23:50 dalek nqp: modify their arguments.
23:50 dalek nqp:
23:50 dalek nqp: A better version of this would only invalidate the cached objects that are
23:50 dalek nqp: actually different from the pointer in C memory.
23:50 dalek nqp:
23:50 dalek nqp: As of this commit, we pass all the NativeCall tests.
23:50 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9635b9f522
23:51 arnsholt There. Have the appropriate amount of fun!
23:52 raiph \o/ arnsholt++
23:52 timotimo ooooh awesome
23:52 timotimo so, jakudo star/rakudo coffeecup this month? :D
23:52 timotimo who's up for the release this time?
23:52 jnthn arnsholt++
23:52 lue arnsholt++
23:53 arnsholt The NQP release for this month is already done, isn't it?
23:53 timotimo don't remember seeing it
23:53 timotimo i think i have to make it, too?
23:53 arnsholt Oh, in that case a JVM star should be possible I think
23:54 timotimo that's awesome! good work! :)
23:54 timotimo and now i'll have to do good work, too
23:55 * jnthn tries to remember if he got perl6-debug-j into the build...
23:55 timotimo oh, that would be important as well
23:55 jnthn Will look at it tomorrow, or failing that certainly on Wed.
23:57 timotimo that doesn't delay the nqp release, so that's good :)
23:58 jnthn Will cut a Moar release on Wed too, in time for your work on Thu.
23:58 timotimo oh, but we have to do the nqp release after the moar release :)
23:58 timotimo oh
23:58 timotimo but that's plenty of time
23:59 jnthn Sure, but on Thursday I'll be off to a concert, so won't be about so much. So better I cut it on Wed. :)
23:59 jnthn Time for some sleep
23:59 timotimo sounds great :)
23:59 timotimo good night jnthn!
23:59 jnthn 'night

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