Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-03-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 timotimo not bad.
00:00 tadzik and then people stared to exploit it :)
00:00 timotimo i'm kinda glad the dotfiles in ~/ are getting somewhat more organized these days
00:00 timotimo with .share and .config and such
00:00 tadzik yeah
00:00 tadzik useful if you actually use hidden files and dirs :)
00:00 timotimo aye.
00:01 tadzik also, I'm glad we still have dotfiles, and not everything is in gnome-registry-thingy
00:01 timotimo yes.
00:02 tadzik I don't even remeber its name, so hopefully it's dead :P
00:02 timotimo gconf is dead
00:02 timotimo dconf is "the new hotness"
00:02 tadzik oh, gconf :)
00:02 tadzik mumble grumblie
00:02 timotimo i think dconf is in some way less sucky
00:02 timotimo but i don't know much about it
00:02 tadzik I'd rather see a nice API which does plaintext files mangling under the hood
00:02 tadzik so if you need to access it from cat and grep, it still works
00:03 timotimo aye.
00:03 timotimo dconf is a simple key-based configuration system. Keys exist in an unstructured database (but it is intended that keys that logically belong together are grouped together).
00:03 timotimo Change notification is supported. ← that's something that's not as trivial with text files
00:04 timotimo Stacking of multiple configuration sources is supported. ← that's pretty cool actually
00:04 timotimo and it's integrated with policykit
00:13 timotimo i'm going to bed now. gnite #perl6!
00:15 colomon o/
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00:51 segomos [A
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02:15 japhb__ .u block
02:15 yoleaux U+0017 END OF TRANSMISSION BLOCK [Cc] (␗)
02:15 yoleaux U+2417 SYMBOL FOR END OF TRANSMISSION BLOCK [So] (␗)
02:15 yoleaux U+2580 UPPER HALF BLOCK [So] (▀)
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02:42 lue r: say "a b c" ~~ /<.alpha> % \s/
02:44 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unrecognized regex metacharacter % (must be quoted to match literally)�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32msay "a b c" ~~ /<.alpha> [33m�[31m% \s/[0m�Unable to parse regex; cou…»
02:44 lue isn't that supposed to work?
02:44 benabik r: say "a b c" ~~ /<.alpha> *% \s/
02:44 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«「a b c」␤␤»
02:44 benabik % needs to be attached to a quantifier now, as I recall.
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02:46 lue yeah, I realize now I don't want % anyway; I want to match a list of terms with some intervening separator, and /@b % \s/ won't quite DWIM :)
02:50 * lue idly wonders if bare % (without repetition) could be spec'd to be used with interpolated arrays in the way he demonstrated...
02:50 benabik It makes sense to me.
02:51 lue It might mess with people who try to treat arrays as junctions there, but then again you need a quantifier for those cases already.
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02:53 lue More interesting is how to make it work for someone who wants to interleave a non-@var list like that... might be /{<constant in-place list>} % ","/
02:53 lue (similar to /thing ** {closure}/ methinks)
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06:40 lue r: class A { has $.z }; class B is A { has $.z }; say "alive‽"
06:40 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«alive‽␤»
06:40 lue I'll leave that for you all to ponder. ♘ #perl6 o/
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07:27 timotimo r: class A { method foo() { say "ohai" } }; class B is A { method foo() { say "goodbye" } }; say "alive!"
07:27 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«alive!␤»
07:27 timotimo r: class A { has $!foo; }; class B is A { has $!foo; }; say "alive, as well"
07:27 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«alive, as well␤»
07:27 timotimo same thing as those two things
07:28 timotimo private attributes are per-class, methods can be overridable. public attributes are a private attribute + an autogenerated method
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07:51 masak morning, #perl6
07:52 moritz \o masak, timotimo, *
07:52 timotimo o/
07:52 timotimo == SORRY == could not deduce sequence
07:59 masak :)
07:59 moritz == SORRY == did not use sequence operator
08:01 masak == SORRY == using 'sorry' is starting to feel slightly passive-aggressive
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08:03 moritz I'm == SORRY == about that :-)
08:04 * moritz has spent way too much time playing http://gabrielecirulli.github.io/2048/
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08:13 timotimo 3052 points <3
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08:17 moritz my hiscore so far has been around 16k
08:18 moritz and I had a 1024 and a 512 tile
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08:19 moritz but as I said, I spent way too much time on it :-)
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08:27 timotimo only 2944 this time ... up to a 256 tile
08:27 timotimo damn this is addicting
08:29 moritz there's a trick
08:29 moritz collect all the big numbers in the bottom row, for example
08:29 moritz and never use the 'up' key
08:32 timotimo mhm
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08:40 timotimo with your hint i got to 3576
08:42 timotimo bleh!
08:42 timotimo just by going (up, left, down, right) xx * i got 3224 points
08:43 moritz but is it web scale? :-)
08:44 timotimo 3272 points this time
08:45 timotimo it's quite discouraging if a very simple data-independent strategy gets so close to the score you get by trying to think it out ...
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08:47 timotimo okay, now that's just ridiculous
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08:48 timotimo just going (down, left, down, right) xx * got me to 6392 just now
08:48 moritz do you automate that? :-)
08:49 timotimo no, if i automated it, i wouldn't have the opportunity for my brain to link me hitting the keys with the game merging tiles
08:49 * moritz just got to 11k, with a 1024 tile
08:51 timotimo okay so the only "danger" to the down, left, down, right strategy is when your whole thing gets stuck so you can't do any of these three actions
08:51 timotimo then you have to go up and get a low-number tile in your bottom-most column
08:51 timotimo row*
08:51 timotimo after that, your bottom-most row gets stuck
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08:53 moritz there's a an alternative
08:53 timotimo yeah, i just tried one
08:53 timotimo i turned the "gravity" by 90 degrees
08:53 moritz control the pushing down so that the bottom-most row doesn't get stuck
08:53 timotimo hehe.
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08:54 moritz that's the part that requires thinking/attention
08:56 timotimo there's an alternative
08:56 timotimo shut up with your thinking and let me watch colorful blocks with numbers merge! :D
08:56 timotimo damnit
08:56 moritz :-)
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09:12 arnsholt I <3 SSDs
09:15 tadzik oh yes. Let's never again use anything else :)
09:15 DrEeevil I kinda dislike their binary nature
09:15 DrEeevil either they work, or they are a brick ;)
09:16 DrEeevil (and some SSDs are not worth the name ... 10 IO/s ?!?!)
09:16 tadzik isn't that just like regular hard drives? :)
09:16 DrEeevil nah, those start to have read errars and slov corrupxion
09:16 DrEeevil then you at least have enough time to do something
09:16 tadzik I guess you can disassemble the HDD and use the disks as those thingys-under-teacups
09:17 tadzik well, I only once heard of a broken SSD, and that was Linus'
09:17 tadzik and he has a *slight* tendency to exaggarrate...
09:17 tadzik or however you write that
09:18 DrEeevil I've had one die, and had it replaced with an "equivalent" device
09:18 DrEeevil ... no, OCZ is not equivalent to anything else
09:20 FROGGS tadzik: I have such a under-teacup thingy :o)
09:20 FROGGS I guess that is mandatory when one is working in the IT department
09:26 timotimo 16872 \o/
09:26 moritz timotimo: that's quite good
09:27 timotimo tadzik: "coasters"
09:27 timotimo moritz: mostly luck :P
09:27 timotimo i did get a 1024 tile :)
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09:30 timotimo moritz: you have turned me into a push-down automaton
09:37 tadzik ah, coasters
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10:01 arnsholt timotimo: Hey, at least you can recognise center-embedding. Beats plain FSAs =)
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10:10 timotimo aye
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11:42 FROGGS m: class Foo; say GLOBAL
11:42 camelia rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«(GLOBAL)␤»
11:42 FROGGS m: class Foo; say $?PACKAGE
11:42 camelia rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«(Foo)␤»
12:07 timotimo r: class Foo; say GLOBAL::.keys
12:07 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«Foo␤»
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12:25 timotimo moritz: a core insight to this seems to be that you always want to have as few different numbers on the board as possible, because every number that doesn't have any other numbers near it is going to be blocking your board for a long time to come.
12:25 timotimo that's why it's pretty easy to button-mash your way to your first 256 or even 512
12:25 timotimo but after that you have to work for more points
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13:37 moritz timotimo: agreed
13:37 timotimo i'm getting somewhat far with the strategy "always seek to merge twos"
13:37 timotimo but that seems a bit short-sighted.
13:45 masak timotimo: try "always seek to (greedily) merge the highest pair possible" ?
13:45 brrt you have no other strategy than greedy do you? :-)
13:46 brrt its not like you can backtrack
13:46 timotimo well, you have to be on-line, but you can try to be competitive against the most malevolent placer of new 2s and 4s
13:46 [Coke] is this the web game that is like the ios game threes?
13:47 * brrt is also curious how the author claims 2048 is the highest obtainable value
13:47 brrt its not obvious to me why that should be
13:48 timotimo well, if you go to 4096, you'll be spending a *lot* of time :)
13:48 timotimo but feel free to write an exhaustive search in perl6 :)
13:49 brrt hmmm
13:49 timotimo (it will also be spending a *lot* of time, except the jvm's jit may very well kick into full gear there)
13:49 timotimo gotta run now.
13:49 brrt i'm not sure you can exhaustively search in all cases
13:49 brrt because some moves decrease the number of cells on the board
13:49 brrt and you only finish once all cells are filled/
13:49 brrt ?
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14:19 masak brrt: indeed, I'm not convinced the game cannot be sustained infinitely.
14:19 masak the random component essentially makes it a two-player game.
14:19 moritz it cannot
14:20 Timbus_ it would run out of space..
14:20 masak oh, if it cannot, then it should be eminently simulatable.
14:20 moritz you can't turn a 2 into a 2^18 with only 16 spaces
14:20 masak hm, right.
14:20 moritz that's also why it gets more difficult with time
14:20 masak so you *must* run out of space at some point.
14:21 Timbus_ imagine if, it wasnt a grid, but just a line of squares. and the 2 always spawned on the left, and you shifted it right
14:21 moritz the more high numbers you have, the less free space you have to navigate
14:21 Timbus_ that simplifies the problem easily
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14:25 masak ah, it's one of those "the moves fold into the board (and make it more messy)" kind of problems.
14:29 moritz small numbers enter the board, large numbers are created by merging. The challenge is just to create the larger numbers in the correct place, adjacent to other numbers in the same order of magnitude
14:29 moritz fragmentation kills
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14:34 brrt hmmm
14:35 brrt i see
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15:07 masak http://spryfox.com/our-games/tripletown/ is like that too -- fragmentation kills.
15:08 masak Go/圍棋 (allegedly) is like that too.
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15:32 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: fb4ffa9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/ (4 files):
15:32 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: Change .ast to .made where it seemed appropriate
15:32 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fb4ffa9492
15:32 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: 15869c8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/ (12 files):
15:32 dalek nqp/r2-lex-to-local: "past" is now a thing of the ast
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15:34 timotimo oh? why did these commits get reported again?
15:36 jnthn Can happen if you merge a brunch
15:36 jnthn uh
15:36 jnthn a branch
15:37 jnthn .oO( bit late to be pondering brunch... )
15:37 timotimo :)
15:37 timotimo that reminds me that i'm kinda hungry
15:38 jnthn Time for lunner :P
15:41 colomon time to stir-fry!
15:41 colomon just realized I have no green onions.  time to cry.
15:42 benabik Generally I cry when I have onions.
15:42 benabik I guess I cry when I have no pre-cut onions.
15:44 colomon benabik: I got my preliminary lists of players for Ambercon a couple of days ago…  :)
15:45 benabik colomon: ooooh
15:48 colomon benabik: if those games don't go well, I have no one to blame but myself.
15:48 colomon (ie good players)
15:49 timotimo it occurs to me
15:49 timotimo managing the fragmentation of square numbers by tidying up pairs of them
15:49 timotimo seems like a stereotypically german thing to enjoy
15:49 colomon benabik: one new thing -- this year I'm involved in as many Lords of Gossamer and Shadow games as Amber games. (three of each)
15:50 benabik colomon: Lords of Gossamer?  (I assume shadow just means outside the court.)
15:51 colomon benabik: http://www.ritepublishing.com/dicelessroleplaying.html (It's Amber DRPG system skinned onto a new multiverse.)
15:51 jercos jnthn: bit late perhaps, that's why it'd be a merged brunch ;)
15:51 jercos merged with dinner?
15:53 benabik colomon: Oh hey hey.  Hadn't seen THAT before.
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16:13 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
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16:17 [Coke] pmichaud: o/
16:19 timotimo greetings pmichaud :)
16:21 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 38b274f | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
16:21 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
16:21 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/38b274f700
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16:31 timotimo another idea
16:31 timotimo you have a 4x4 grid
16:31 timotimo you can place a 2 or a 4 in any free space
16:31 timotimo then you must shift all tiles to one of four directions as if gravity affected them
16:32 timotimo tiles that rest upon each other during such a phase that have the same number merge into 2 x the number
16:32 timotimo in how few turns can you fill up the whole board?
16:43 TimToady m: my @array = <a b c>; say "a,b,c" ~~ /<{@array.shift}> +% ','/
16:43 camelia rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«「a,b,c」␤␤»
16:43 TimToady what's the big deal?
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16:44 TimToady lue: ^^
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16:45 TimToady it won't backtrack, mind you
16:45 TimToady being destructive like that
16:46 TimToady one would have to arrange to return the correct @array[$i] to make it re-usable
16:46 TimToady or arrange to copy the array at the re-entrance
16:47 TimToady more realistically, you'd pull an iterator out and use that destructively
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16:48 TimToady perhaps one could arrange this as an <each(@array)> subrule
16:49 TimToady assuming one could get it to clone at the appropriate scope
16:50 TimToady however, the lack of demand for this up till now indicates that a solution like / :my @tmp = @array; <{@tmp.shift}> +% ',' / might be quite sufficient
16:51 TimToady that would at least be re-entrant, if not backtrackable
16:51 benabik Attempting to backtrack through code just makes the entire rule fail, yes?
16:51 TimToady no
16:52 TimToady it just ignores it
16:52 TimToady it assumes you write your code idempotently such that it doesn't matter
16:53 benabik Hm.  Would have to be very careful how you use destructive iteration then, or you could end up skipping elements.
16:54 TimToady yes, though generally you'd re-enter something like this from the top when you need to
16:54 TimToady if the + here backtracked it would not recalculate the LHS, it would just throw away one of the results
16:54 TimToady or generate the next one, in the case of +?
16:55 TimToady greedy backtracking generates all the possible Cursors first; it doesn't have to regen any Cursors from the left
16:55 TimToady (unless the backtracking is violent enough to cause re-entry, but then your :my recopies the array)
16:56 TimToady so I don't think we need a new feature here
16:56 TimToady much to the surprise of those who think Perl 6 includes every feature anyone can ever think of :)
16:56 benabik Sensible.
16:57 * TimToady could certainly be wrong at this stage of the morning, or of life
16:57 benabik Failure is always an option.
16:57 TimToady in which case I will attempt to backtrack non-destructively :)
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17:04 arnsholt o
17:04 arnsholt /
17:04 arnsholt Delayed wave ^_^
17:04 isBEKaml arnsholt: you got your arm detached?
17:05 isBEKaml arnsholt: that's what happens when you go through a time warp. splicing. :-)
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17:06 isBEKaml \           o
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17:08 benabik "My arm's come off.  How am I going to operate my digital watch now?"
17:14 isBEKaml "Bluddy hell - I'll just carry this arm around!"
17:17 * timotimo is remimnded of that one Space Janitors episode
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17:30 * [Coke]
17:30 * timotimo
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17:45 raiph m: print ^Inf # for Ulti
17:45 camelia rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«(timeout)0123456789101112131415161718192021222324252627282930313233343536373839404142434445464748495051525354555657585960616263646566676869707172737475767778798081828384858687888990919293949596979899100101102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116117118…»
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18:27 raiph .tell Ulti warn ^Inf # I love the idea of elegant golf with P6. For example, refusing to omit spaces when it would work but be ugly.
18:27 yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to Ulti.
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18:35 TimToady one should do token golf, not keystroke golf
18:36 TimToady 'course then you have to figure out how to count tokens
18:37 TimToady :16<cafebeef> is one token, probably , but how many is :16($string) ?
18:37 TimToady and is foo() fewer tokens than foo.() ?
18:39 TimToady one could do keystrokes without counting whitespace, I suppose
18:39 TimToady whitspace would correspond to a "free drop" in golf :)
18:40 TimToady when your ball token is too close to the grandstands token
18:41 TimToady or maybe it's more like lift-clean-and-place rules :)
18:42 TimToady would be a nice cultural hack to start the Clean Golf meme
18:42 TimToady ignore whitespace, allow Unicode chars as single strokes
18:43 timotimo m)
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19:20 * jnthn back
19:21 * masak stomach
19:27 * segomos chest
19:27 moritz timotimo: http://ov3y.github.io/2048-AI/
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19:28 moritz ... but it doesn't win here
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19:39 segomos moritz: thanks for ruining my work day
19:40 moritz segomos: you're welcome
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19:58 FROGGS score 4948 for the first run... is that good?
19:59 FROGGS but I won't play it a second time, that is very addicting
19:59 jnthn .oO( And all Perl 6 development ground to a halt as a result of a game... :) )
19:59 FROGGS hehe, yeah
20:00 * FROGGS .oO( only parrot will survive )
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20:03 FROGGS std: my %foo; %foo<bar> => "baz"
20:03 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 125m␤»
20:04 FROGGS p6: my %foo; %foo<bar> => "baz"
20:04 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: ( no output )
20:04 FROGGS that took my a while to spot it... in my code should have been an assignment instead...
20:04 FROGGS shouldn't that warn?
20:05 lue p6: my %foo; %foo<bar> => "baz"; say %foo;
20:05 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«{}␤»
20:05 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
20:06 vendethiel ().hash ? really ? :D
20:06 lue FROGGS: I feel the same way about   class A { has $.x }; class B is A { has $.x }    :)
20:06 vendethiel .oO(is {} too mainstream or something ?)
20:06 * vendethiel .oO( is {} too mainstream or something ? )
20:06 lue vendethiel: TIMTOWTDI
20:06 FROGGS lue: what do you want it to do?
20:07 vendethiel lue: oh yeah, that's for sure, but I don't see why .perl doesn't return {}
20:07 lue FROGGS: I'd like it to at least warn me that I've redeclared a variable like that, it caused a subtle and annoying bug yesterday :/
20:07 masak vendethiel: it used to, but it got changed for some reason I don't remember, or may never have known.
20:08 vendethiel masak: oke!
20:08 TimToady p6: my %foo; %foo<bar> => "baz"; say $%foo;
20:08 lue vendethiel: because ().hash is just as valid, and also it probably avoids confusion with code-block-based {} :)
20:08 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«{}␤»
20:08 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
20:08 vendethiel FROGGS: should void statements produce a warning ?
20:08 masak vendethiel: same thing with arrays.
20:08 jnthn FROGGS: I've a sinking feeling that should warn... :)
20:08 TimToady p6: my %foo; %foo<bar> => "baz"; say %foo.item;
20:08 vendethiel masak: that's true
20:08 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«{}␤»
20:08 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
20:08 masak r: say [].perl
20:08 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«[]␤»
20:08 masak hm.
20:09 TimToady r: say {}.perl
20:09 FROGGS vendethiel: yes, things that clearly do not make sense should warn or fail
20:09 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«{}␤»
20:09 lue I personally think => there should work just like =
20:09 masak r: say [1, 2, 3].perl
20:09 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤»
20:09 TimToady p6: my %foo; %foo<bar> => "baz"; say %foo.item.perl;
20:09 vendethiel lue: well, then you can't create a hash with a key based on a value from another hash ?
20:09 masak I distinctly remember getting Array.new(...) sometimes.
20:09 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«{}␤»
20:09 TimToady yes, depends on whether it's itemized
20:09 vendethiel masak: oh, even I remember it and I've been here for like a month :p
20:10 TimToady p6: my %foo; %foo<bar> => "baz"; say $%foo.perl;
20:10 FROGGS lue: btw, I'm not even sure there is a redecl in your example
20:10 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«{}␤»
20:10 FROGGS yeah
20:10 lue vendethiel:  %a{%b<5>} => 1;   :)
20:11 masak r: say { 4 => [] }.perl
20:11 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«{"4" => []}␤»
20:11 masak hrm.
20:11 vendethiel r: my %foo = 'a' => 1; my %bar = %foo<a> => 2; say %bar.perl;
20:11 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«("1" => 2).hash␤»
20:11 vendethiel lue: ^
20:12 vendethiel That's what I meant
20:12 lue FROGGS: yeah, I realize it's not quite so simple, but I left it behind while creating a new base class, and the different methods in the new base class and the derived class affect different $!x's
20:12 lue vendethiel: ah, I see what you mean.
20:12 FROGGS lue: yes, that is what I expect it should do :o)
20:12 TimToady r: say (1 => 2).perl
20:12 vendethiel lue: that might be a corner-case though :)
20:12 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«1 => 2␤»
20:12 lue FROGGS: not so much fun when you don't realize you forgot to delete a 'has' line :)
20:13 FROGGS lue: sure
20:13 FROGGS lue: but that is something that might or might not be intentional... a compiler can not always decide there
20:13 lue I just think it'd be nice if P6 went "hey, just so you know, you declared another $!x in this derived class. Things might not work fine"
20:13 lue "Potential difficulties" I think it's called :)
20:13 jnthn lue: The point is that it *will* work fine.
20:14 FROGGS I don't like warning for potentionally ok things
20:14 jnthn lue: They are different attributes.
20:14 TimToady Potential difficulties: Failed to read your mind...
20:14 lue FROGGS: aren't all Potential Difficulties "potentially ok things" though?
20:14 jnthn It's important that it's that way. You should be able to subclass without having to care about what's in the parent class.
20:14 FROGGS lue: don't thinks so
20:14 FROGGS think*
20:15 jnthn That's one of the ways Perl 6 gets inheritance righter than the likes of Java and C#, which make it easy to flaunt things in the base class through using protected...
20:15 FROGGS m: my $a; my $a # this is clearly not ok
20:15 camelia rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤    Redeclaration of symbol $aâ�¤    at /tmp/2vCz8FTAwe:1â�¤    ------> [32mmy $a; my $a # this is clearly not ok[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤Â»
20:15 TimToady the only one people carp about frequently is declared but not used
20:16 jnthn declared but not used is annoying by default.
20:16 TimToady FROGGS: actually that one is officially ok
20:16 lue jnhtn: yeah, I'm just annoyed that Perl 6 let me get away with something that in my case broke things :) [a method in Base modifies its $!x, and then Derived.x doesn't return what I changed; that's what my issue was]
20:16 TimToady std: my $a; my $a
20:16 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  Useless redeclaration of variable $a (see line 1) at /tmp/JbstzFzwGb line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy $a; my $a[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤ok 00:01 122mâ�¤Â»
20:16 FROGGS TimToady: for the parser yes, but there is no situation where you would need to do that and really mean it
20:16 TimToady note it's a *useless* redeclaration in sTD
20:17 lue m: my $a; my $a; say "alive!"
20:17 camelia rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤    Redeclaration of symbol $aâ�¤    at /tmp/FSxYsJ3cAG:1â�¤    ------> [32mmy $a; my $a[33mâ��[31m; say "alive!"[0mâ�¤alive!â�¤Â»
20:17 TimToady well, you can leave the foo off of $foo when you declare it, too, so why all the carpage about declared but not used?
20:18 FROGGS m: my $a = 42; my $a; say $a
20:18 camelia rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤    Redeclaration of symbol $aâ�¤    at /tmp/JDFTmpE8jO:1â�¤    ------> [32mmy $a = 42; my $a[33mâ��[31m; say $a[0mâ�¤42â�¤Â»
20:18 FROGGS lue: see this one, do you expect that to happen?
20:18 lue FROGGS: since the second one is a *useless* redeclaration, yes :)
20:18 lue [rakudo should be clearer on that point...]
20:18 FROGGS lue: yes
20:19 jnthn TimToady: 'cus a normal way of working is to stub stuff with names, and then go write tests, and come back and fill in the stubbed stuff.
20:19 TimToady well, it's helping you find what you missed then :P
20:19 jnthn TimToady: And even if I ain't doing the tests phase in there, I still tend to do a lot of sketching that way. :)
20:19 jnthn And the warnings at that point are clutter. I agree they can be desirable at a certain stage.
20:20 TimToady trouble is, there's no mechanism to get people to turn those warnings on when they need 'em
20:21 TimToady so you get the 'use strict' problem all over again
20:21 TimToady maybe we need an 'anon' twigil :)
20:21 FROGGS oh oh oh, can we have a -Wall cmd line argument this time?
20:22 lue maybe a "is really" trait to turn off warnings?  my $a; my $a is really;
20:22 FROGGS m: my $a; my $a; #OK
20:22 camelia rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤    Redeclaration of symbol $aâ�¤    at /tmp/xS3TwSpnnf:1â�¤    ------> [32mmy $a; my $a[33mâ��[31m; #OK[0mâ�¤Â»
20:22 FROGGS m: my $a; my $a; # OK
20:22 camelia rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤    Redeclaration of symbol $aâ�¤    at /tmp/uzrKism0Zh:1â�¤    ------> [32mmy $a; my $a[33mâ��[31m; # OK[0mâ�¤Â»
20:22 TimToady r: multi my $a; multi my $a;
20:22 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Missing blockâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32mmulti my [33mâ��[31m$a; multi my $a;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤    â€¦Â»
20:22 FROGGS /o\
20:22 vendethiel what's a multi my ?
20:23 lue FROGGS: actually, I think I might like -Wall etc. better. That way I can do -Wderived-redecl-attr or however it'd be spelled  :)
20:23 FROGGS ohh noes, he asked
20:23 * jnthn tries not to comment on the appropriateness of Perl 6 having a -Wall flag that tells you stuff TimToady++ thinks you need to know :D
20:23 TimToady r: my proto $a; my $a; my $a
20:23 camelia rakudo-parrot 1aeb7c, rakudo-jvm 1aeb7c, rakudo-moar 1aeb7c: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤    Redeclaration of symbol $aâ�¤    at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤    ------> [32mmy proto $a; my $a[33mâ��[31m; my $a[0mâ�¤    Redeclaration of symbol $aâ�¤    at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤    ------> …»
20:23 FROGGS vendethiel: I hope is not going to be anything :o)
20:23 TimToady std: my proto $a; my $a; my $a
20:23 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
20:23 TimToady there's already a defined mechanism for this
20:23 vendethiel wut
20:24 TimToady it's really in there for macros, not for programmers
20:24 FROGGS jnthn: it could even add an "except when it's not" to some error messages :o)
20:24 TimToady since macros often want to ensure that something is declared
20:29 FROGGS yays! the provides section in the META.info is now generated as well in `panda-m bundle`
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20:34 dalek perl6-roast-data: ae21865 | coke++ | perl6_pass_rates.csv:
20:34 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
20:34 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/ae21865431
20:35 FROGGS next step: zip it for upload to pause
20:38 lue FROGGS: can I pick the archive type thru this method, by chance? I prefer .tar.bz2 and .tar.xz myself :)
20:39 FROGGS lue: dunno, if pause will only accept .tar.gz, then we have no chance to choose :o)
20:39 lue really? that's a shame; tar.gz is the worst of all the .tar.* compression methods :)
20:42 FROGGS lue: I will tell you in a few days :o)
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20:44 lue (not that tar.gz is bad, just happens to be the least space-efficient out of {gz,bz2,xz} ☺)
20:46 arnsholt It's the most portable one, though
20:46 benabik And hits a much better efficiency vs portability point than just .Z
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20:49 lue Not an excuse to limit your selection of tar compressions though. (At the very least, don't allow .rar ☺)
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21:13 [Coke] http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26528516
21:13 [Coke] "Nasa seeks coders to hunt asteroids"
21:15 dalek panda/depends: 1433262 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/ (2 files):
21:15 dalek panda/depends: autogenerate "provides" setion on META.info
21:15 dalek panda/depends: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/1433262c5e
21:15 lue [Coke]: I like how they never spelled it NASA :)
21:16 tadzik oh, good stuff :)
21:16 tadzik FROGGS++
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21:35 * dwarring checking test roast test coverage of 2013 advent calender
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21:58 * dwarring hmmm github connectivity problems - https://status.github.com/
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22:05 jnthn aww
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22:23 dalek roast: fb58cb3 | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2013-day07.t:
22:23 dalek roast: code snippets from advent 2013 day 07 - set specification
22:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fb58cb311b
22:23 dalek roast: 1312678 | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2013-day18.t:
22:23 dalek roast: starting on advent 2013 day 18 - grammar with duplicate checking
22:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1312678d66
22:23 dalek roast: c69b51d | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | .gitignore:
22:23 dalek roast: ignore *~ (emacs backups)
22:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c69b51d8c2
22:25 dwarring that's a couple of advent days covered
22:25 * dwarring more to do on day 18
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22:29 TimToady we don't say RADAR or LASER anymore either
22:31 TimToady .oO(I know, we'll just use a little nasa on that problem.)
22:31 huf you still say API though... that bothers me the most for some reason :)
22:32 TimToady that's cuz I still spell it out when I pronounce it
22:32 huf yes, that's what i mean. why? it's 2/3 vowels!
22:33 siruf joined #perl6
22:34 TimToady you make it sound rational :)
22:35 huf it's one of those that surprised me when i heard it from a native. it shouldnt have, but by then my own pronunciation had been burned into my brain
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22:47 lizmat lue, FROGGS: you can upload anything to PAUSE
22:47 lizmat it's just that installers need to be able to deal with it
22:47 lizmat FROGGS: see you tomorrow in Lyon
22:47 lizmat sleep now&
22:47 lue Yeah, that's kinda what I assumed beforehand.
22:48 lue ♞ lizmat o/
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23:43 japhb__ .ask jnthn Is there any way from Rakudo to see how many threads are actively running tasks, how many are blocked on e.g. IO, how many tasks *could* run if there was a thread available, etc?  I'm at the point now that I'm wanting to optimize the use of my thread pool to keep all my cores busy, and it would help to be able to introspect the states.
23:43 yoleaux japhb__: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
23:47 siruf joined #perl6
23:47 japhb__ .tell jnthn A sample use case: I have an app that starts up chewing CPU in one or two cores, launches a bunch of tasks in different threads, they all start communicating with external processes, all cores max out briefly, some tasks finish, others go to low-CPU state and machine drops to only a core or two used for another 20 seconds before finishing.  And now I want to know why.  :-)
23:47 yoleaux japhb__: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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