Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-03-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 tadzik :)
00:00 tadzik maybe I should add a tl;dr at the top
00:00 tadzik I wrote a lot of boring stuff in there too, some people may just give up
00:01 tadzik but then again, those people probably won't have the patience to write a game either :P
00:01 timotimo aye
00:01 timotimo games are hard
00:01 tadzik I played the most hilarous board game today
00:01 tadzik I wonder if it's in english too, so I can show you
00:02 tadzik http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/71021/evolution-the-origin-of-species this
00:02 ssutch_ i've wanted to make games my whole life, but have been too busy paying the bills and spending my ambition elsewhere
00:03 timotimo not enough ambition spent on Perl 6 recently :P
00:03 ssutch_ timotimo: agreed
00:04 ssutch_ i am inspired by games like thomas was alone
00:04 timotimo that's a beautiful game
00:04 tadzik it's pretty fun
00:04 timotimo that's the kind of game you can't just hack up in your garage, though
00:04 timotimo you need a professional voice actor with such a surly voice
00:04 ssutch_ true
00:05 eternaleye joined #perl6
00:06 timotimo though i've been told time and time again i have a nice voice
00:14 Sqirrel joined #perl6
00:25 kivutar joined #perl6
00:36 Sqirrel joined #perl6
00:41 Sqirrel joined #perl6
01:02 Sqirrel joined #perl6
01:08 dayangkun joined #perl6
01:17 Sqirrel joined #perl6
01:52 Sqirrel joined #perl6
02:11 JimmyZ .tell tadzik I updated lastest MoarVM and still got segfault
02:11 yoleaux JimmyZ: I'll pass your message to tadzik.
02:14 Sqirrel joined #perl6
02:14 BenGoldberg p: sub infix:<oof> is assoc('list') { $^a + $^b }; say [Roof] 1..4
02:14 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:17009␤  in sub  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:17151␤  in block  at /tmp/NarMS2B2c_:1␤␤»
02:16 BenGoldberg std: for ( 1 .. 2 ) { (state $) ^= 42 }
02:16 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 128m␤»
02:16 BenGoldberg p: for ( 1 .. 2 ) { (state $) ^= 42 }
02:16 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/658dH691Kb�Unsupported use of $) variable; in Perl 6 please use $*EGID�at /tmp/658dH691Kb:1�------> [32mfor ( 1 .. 2 ) { (state $)[33m�[31m ^= 42 }[0m�»
02:20 BenGoldberg p6: my $y; for ( 1 .. 2 ) { $y := (state $ ) ^= 42 }; 0;
02:20 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: ( no output )
02:20 BenGoldberg p6: my $y; for ( 1 .. 2 ) { $y := (state $ ) ^= 42 }; print 'alive';
02:20 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«alive»
02:20 BenGoldberg p6: my $y; for ( 1 .. 2 ) { $y := (state $ ) ^= 42 }; print $y;
02:20 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
02:20 camelia ..rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«one(one(one(), 42), 42)»
02:21 BenGoldberg p6: my $y; for ( 1 .. 2 ) { $y := (state $ ) ^= 42 }; print so $y;
02:21 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Stack overflow: IP: 0x50322a, fault addr: (nil)␤Stacktrace:␤  at Niecza.Kernel.UnboxAny<T> (Niecza.P6any) <0x0002b>␤  <...>␤  at Niecza.CtxJunctionBool.Get (Niecza.Variable) <0x00117>␤  at Niecza.CtxJunctionBool.Get (Niecza.Variable) <0x0025…»
02:21 camelia ..rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«False»
02:25 xragnar_ joined #perl6
02:40 woosley joined #perl6
02:45 Sqirrel joined #perl6
02:48 klapperl joined #perl6
02:50 Sqirrel joined #perl6
02:54 hoverboard joined #perl6
03:02 Sqirrel joined #perl6
03:03 FROGGS joined #perl6
03:13 Sqirrel joined #perl6
03:14 xenoterracide joined #perl6
03:21 Sqirrel joined #perl6
04:02 Sqirrel joined #perl6
04:13 Sqirrel joined #perl6
04:15 dalek roast: feff03c | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2013-day12.t:
04:15 dalek roast: adding advent 2013 day 12
04:15 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/feff03c0b8
04:32 logie_ joined #perl6
04:34 Sqirrel joined #perl6
04:59 ssutch_ joined #perl6
05:00 kaare_ joined #perl6
05:10 rurban1 joined #perl6
05:12 rurban2 joined #perl6
05:24 bjz joined #perl6
05:39 Sqirrel joined #perl6
05:54 Sqirrel_ joined #perl6
06:19 darutoko joined #perl6
06:30 kaare_ joined #perl6
06:33 kaleem joined #perl6
06:39 [Sno] joined #perl6
06:48 kurahaupo joined #perl6
06:49 ssutch_ joined #perl6
06:49 dayangkun joined #perl6
06:57 lustlife joined #perl6
07:05 yakudza joined #perl6
07:13 rurban1 joined #perl6
07:19 brrt joined #perl6
07:19 bjz_ joined #perl6
07:19 xragnar_ joined #perl6
07:19 telex joined #perl6
07:19 dmol joined #perl6
07:19 dayangkun_ joined #perl6
07:19 yves__ joined #perl6
07:20 klapperl joined #perl6
07:20 sjn joined #perl6
07:27 lustlife joined #perl6
07:27 woosley joined #perl6
07:34 ribasushi joined #perl6
07:36 hugme joined #perl6
07:44 bjz joined #perl6
07:48 masak mornin, #perl6
07:50 ssutch_ joined #perl6
07:50 brrt hi masak
08:09 zakharyas joined #perl6
08:14 nwc10 good *, #perl6
08:14 rurban1 joined #perl6
08:36 pdcawley joined #perl6
08:37 rindolf joined #perl6
08:37 FROGGS moin
08:40 fhelmberger joined #perl6
08:43 sergot_ morning
08:44 sergot o/
08:48 FROGGS hi sergot
08:49 cosimo simula67: i'll take a look, thanks
08:49 cosimo (it's been ages since I last touched perl6 code, unfortunately)
08:50 ssutch_ joined #perl6
08:52 terrencehan joined #perl6
08:53 JimmyZ jimmy@jimmy-virtual-machine ~/panda $ ../MoarVM/install/bin/perl6-m bootstrap.pl
08:53 JimmyZ ==> Bootstrapping Panda
08:53 JimmyZ /bin/sh: 1: perl6-m: not found
08:53 JimmyZ ==> Please make sure that /home/jimmy/MoarVM/install/languages/perl6/site/bin is in your PATH
08:53 JimmyZ jimmy@jimmy-virtual-machine ~/panda $ ls ../MoarVM/install/languages/perl6/site/
08:53 JimmyZ panda
08:54 JimmyZ .tell tadzik ^^
08:54 yoleaux JimmyZ: I'll pass your message to tadzik.
08:56 FROGGS ohh
09:13 aborazmeh joined #perl6
09:15 rurban1 joined #perl6
09:17 rurban2 joined #perl6
09:19 rindolf joined #perl6
09:26 kurahaupo joined #perl6
09:33 darutoko joined #perl6
09:35 Ven joined #perl6
09:47 tadzik oh
09:47 yoleaux 02:11Z <JimmyZ> tadzik: I updated lastest MoarVM and still got segfault
09:47 yoleaux 08:54Z <JimmyZ> tadzik: ^^
09:47 tadzik should be an easy-ish fix, I'll open myself a bug
09:47 tadzik JimmyZ++
09:48 JimmyZ tadzik: one is about the game,  another one is about panda :P
09:48 tadzik JimmyZ: well, I can't reproduce the one with the game
09:48 tadzik JimmyZ: can you get a backtrace maybe?
09:51 ssutch_ joined #perl6
10:01 JimmyZ tadzik: I don't get it yet, maybe tomorrow
10:02 Alina-malina joined #perl6
10:05 iolympian joined #perl6
10:05 aborazmeh joined #perl6
10:06 FROGGS hmmm, I think for modules with backend specific code it would be handy to have pragma "if"
10:09 colomon +1
10:12 FROGGS the Perl 5 version is just about a few lines, and I guess it could be the same for Perl 5
10:12 FROGGS err, s/5$/6/
10:13 pecastro joined #perl6
10:17 colomon r: say $*VM
10:17 camelia rakudo-jvm ffa572: OUTPUT«("name" => "jvm", "config" => {"runtime.jars" => "/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/languages/nqp/runtime/asm-4.1.jar:/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/languages/nqp/runtime/asm-tree-4.1.jar:/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/languages/nqp/runtime/jline-1.0.jar:/home/p6eval/raku…»
10:17 camelia ..rakudo-parrot ffa572: OUTPUT«("name" => "parrot", "config" => {"git_describe" => "RELEASE_6_1_0", "sha1" => "23928872782b93dff5b0a62749442cdb3c2fed81", "a" => ".a", "ar" => "ar", "ar_extra" => "", "ar_out" => "", "archname" => "x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi", "arflags" => "cr", "as"…»
10:17 camelia ..rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«("name" => "moar", "config" => {"ccoptiflags" => "-O1 -DNDEBUG", "uvrule" => "\$(AR) \$(ARFLAGS) \$\@ \$(UV_LINUX)", "tomobjects" => "3rdparty/libtommath/bn_error.o 3rdparty/libtommath/bn_fast_mp_invmod.o 3rdparty/libtommath/bn_fast_mp_montgomery_reduce.o …»
10:17 rurban1 joined #perl6
10:18 colomon … I guess that might be enough for most of the things I was thinking of.
10:23 salv0 joined #perl6
10:37 Alula joined #perl6
10:40 colomon m: say "," x 4
10:40 camelia rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«,,,,␤»
10:52 ssutch_ joined #perl6
10:55 rindolf joined #perl6
11:02 SamuraiJack_ joined #perl6
11:18 salv0 joined #perl6
11:18 colomon m: say "+1".Int
11:18 camelia rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«1␤»
11:18 rurban1 joined #perl6
11:35 lizmat r: say $*VM<name>
11:35 camelia rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«moar␤»
11:35 camelia ..rakudo-jvm ffa572: OUTPUT«jvm␤»
11:35 camelia ..rakudo-parrot ffa572: OUTPUT«parrot␤»
11:36 lizmat r: say $*VM.WHAT
11:36 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«(Hash)␤»
11:36 * lizmat wonders whether that shouldn't be encapsulated in some object
11:38 bash_ joined #perl6
11:53 ssutch_ joined #perl6
11:55 FROGGS lizmat: in case it will offer more than name=>value pairs or lists, yes
11:56 FROGGS but until then a hash is all we need
11:56 woolfy1 joined #perl6
11:57 lizmat as long as the object supports postcircumfix {}, I guess
11:57 lizmat otoh, I'm reminded ot how DBI's tied hashes exploded  :-(
11:58 timotimo today is the last chance to get some exciting things into the weekly :P
11:58 FROGGS hehe
11:58 timotimo well, at least this week's weekly
11:58 FROGGS timotimo: I am busy writing slides, so do not expect anything from me :o)
11:58 * lizmat is also busy writing slides
11:59 timotimo slides are good, too
11:59 FROGGS I only have done like 33% :/
11:59 timotimo i don't even have any slides :(
11:59 * lizmat has some more time available then FROGGS, as she only has to present hers on Mon 31 March
12:00 FROGGS I have to give the talks in about 45 hours
12:02 timotimo and i'll be attending :P
12:03 lizmat as will I  :-)
12:03 FROGGS *g*
12:03 timotimo good timesn
12:03 timotimo er.
12:03 lizmat unfortunately, I won't be able to attend all of GPW
12:03 FROGGS yeah, I will attend all of it this year it seems
12:03 lizmat I have some other sad obligations to fulfill on late Thursday / Friday
12:04 FROGGS yeah :(
12:10 lizmat has jnthn merged the concurrency branch into nom already ?
12:11 FROGGS no, I've not seen it
12:13 timotimo he has not
12:13 FROGGS yeah, rakudo's moar-conc is 28 commits ahead
12:13 timotimo there's still a nasty concurrent GC bug where "work" gets lost
12:13 timotimo which, in my imagination, would lead to a bunch of objects getting removed, because they were not scanned
12:14 timotimo it doesn't happen very often, aiui
12:14 timotimo i think something like perf ought to help debug something like that, fwiw
12:14 timotimo perf can record and replay the scheduling decisions made for a given thread or the whole system
12:14 timotimo so you can turn a nondeterministic bug that depends on exact scheduling into a 100% reproducible test case that you can debug over and over again
12:14 timotimo i don't know the details, though
12:15 timotimo http://lwn.net/Articles/353295/
12:16 timotimo it may not be exactly what i was advertising after all
12:16 timotimo "using simulated threads"
12:17 timotimo however, this was 2009
12:17 timotimo maybe it has advanced significantly since then
12:18 timotimo i've got a friend who may know about it; not sure if he's AFK at the moment or not
12:19 rurban1 joined #perl6
12:31 colomon joined #perl6
12:40 [Coke] feather1 is at 90% of disk usage.
12:40 kbaker joined #perl6
12:42 timotimo the alot of disk usage
12:43 [Coke] tried to run throughthewindows with a just-built rakudo-moar. installed rakudo-moar... get the error "Could not find NativeCall"....
12:43 colomon TimToady: .Hash is supposed to coerce to Hash, right?  instead of .hash?
12:44 colomon [Coke]: right, I installed panda and used that to install NativeCall.  and it all worked!
12:50 lizmat colomon: rakudo only has .hash at the moment, not .Hash
12:51 dayangkun joined #perl6
12:53 ssutch_ joined #perl6
12:54 lizmat it has .Array though
12:55 lizmat I'm not sure what the reasoning for having .hash and not .Hash is / has been
12:55 FROGGS is .Array the same as .list?
12:55 lizmat r: say 1.Array.WHAT
12:55 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«(Array)␤»
12:55 lizmat r: say 1.list.WHAT
12:55 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
12:55 FROGGS how obvious *g*
12:56 lizmat Array makes an Array, list makes a List
12:56 lizmat r: say 1.List.WHAT
12:56 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«No such method 'List' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
12:56 iolympian joined #perl6
12:58 iolympian left #perl6
13:00 pecastro joined #perl6
13:01 denisboyun joined #perl6
13:03 guru joined #perl6
13:06 [Coke] colomon: oh, whoops, I had assumed it was bundled for some reason that eludes me.
13:08 [Coke] is panda smart enough at this point to deal with multiple installed backends?
13:09 lizmat good question: I assume, like with perl 5, it is the executor running panda that determines what the version / backend is
13:09 [Coke] lizmat: that would make sense. Danke.
13:10 iolympian joined #perl6
13:12 colomon joined #perl6
13:12 [Coke] Building panda (Warning: this may take a while)
13:17 iolympian left #perl6
13:18 skids joined #perl6
13:20 rurban1 joined #perl6
13:25 [Sno] joined #perl6
13:26 [Coke] looks like panda installs a single binary, so I'm not sure it will work if you run it with multiple rakudos.
13:26 [Coke] (old panda used to end up in parrot/PARROT_REV, current panda seems more global)
13:27 [Coke] nativecall warning on a lot of tests: t/03-simple-returns.t .. /bin/sh: PREFIX: command not found
13:29 kivutar joined #perl6
13:29 [Coke] ah well. got as far as it complaining about not being able to open ./sdlwrapperlib.dylib - can't install libsdl via ports on this mac for some reason.
13:30 simcop2387 joined #perl6
13:31 [Coke] (tried installing SDL via libsdl.org, still can't find SDL.h
13:34 * [Coke] gives up for now.
13:35 lustlife joined #perl6
13:41 molaf joined #perl6
13:52 lustlife joined #perl6
13:53 * jnthn waves from Vienna airport, which not only has free wifi, but also a place to sit comfortably with a laptop and plug it in!
13:53 jnthn Dammit, why can't Copenhagen learn from this.
13:54 * [Coke] wonders if he can get someone in NY to hire jnthn so he can complain about the local airport!
13:54 ssutch_ joined #perl6
13:58 jnthn Convincing me to take a job outside Europe would be quite a challenge. :)
14:03 jnthn timotimo: It's a parallel GC bug, not a concurrent one. We don't have a concurrent GC. Thank heavens... :)
14:04 btyler joined #perl6
14:05 lizmat jnthn: even if they would have decent beer ?
14:05 moritz wouldn't it be awesoem to have the GC run in a separate thread? :-)
14:06 rurban1 joined #perl6
14:06 timotimo oh i meant that
14:06 salv0 joined #perl6
14:08 * [Coke] is reminded, he discovered a pretty good (to him) porter this weekend... which his wife liked, so he swapped with her. Coke needs to go back and get more of that porter. :)
14:08 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
14:09 logie_ joined #perl6
14:09 * lizmat assumes porter is a beer ?  and not a person porting code ?
14:10 jnthn moritz: Depends.
14:10 moritz or maybe even in several separate threads
14:10 jnthn moritz: For interactive applications, yes, as you can get pause times really low
14:10 jnthn moritz: For non-interactive/server ones, not really, as you have lower throughput typically than stop-the-world.
14:14 jnthn lizmat: Yes, a porter is a kind of dark beer.
14:14 jnthn lizmat: Beer is only *one* factor :P
14:14 thou joined #perl6
14:17 jnap joined #perl6
14:18 nwc10 jnthn: just curious - what's your external IP?
14:18 nwc10 eg from http://www.whatismyip.com/
14:19 nwc10 hunting IP addresses for test purposes :-)
14:20 lizmat nwc10: 80.100.131.131  but the site got the location all wrong  :-)
14:20 jnthn nwc10: 193.43.158.234
14:21 nwc10 thanks
14:21 * jnthn waits to get packeted...
14:21 jnthn :P
14:23 timotimo how long until the daily roast, [Coke]?
14:24 nwc10 jnthn: awesome. It actually is useful. It doesn't have a City associated with it in our lookup system
14:24 nwc10 I didn't expect life to be that easy :-)
14:26 zakharyas joined #perl6
14:37 FROGGS joined #perl6
14:44 salv0 joined #perl6
14:44 dalek rakudo-star-daily: e71320b | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
14:44 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
14:44 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/e71320b663
14:44 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 830ca37 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
14:44 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
14:44 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/830ca3785b
14:44 dalek perl6-roast-data: 45b19fa | coke++ | perl6_pass_rates.csv:
14:44 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
14:44 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/45b19fa0fa
14:44 [Coke] timotimo: there's yesterday's.
14:44 timotimo thanks :)
14:45 [Coke] today's is up to S05 on the jvm, which is the last impl to run.
14:45 timotimo oke :)
14:46 [Coke] want them faster? I need to setup the JVM to run tests through the eval server again. (and hopefully it will JustWork™)
14:47 timotimo nah, i don't need them that bad
14:47 timotimo i'll just procrastinate writing the p6weekly post some more :)
14:47 timotimo i'd love for the number of failing tests to go down on moar :\
14:48 jnthn Well, the PR I just merged claims to get rid of a few more.
14:48 timotimo the ones in ord_and_chr i suppose?
14:49 [Coke] jnthn: when did it merge?
14:49 timotimo hmm, quite a few exceptions failures
14:49 timotimo [Coke]: 5 minutes ago
14:49 [Coke] here's today's moar run: "total",     29203,    50,   579,  1326, 31158, 28960
14:49 FROGGS still 50 :/
14:50 [Coke] so, tomorrow, then.
14:50 timotimo yeah
14:50 jnthn [Coke]: like 2 minutes ago :)
14:50 jnthn timotimo: yes
14:50 timotimo jnthn: have you looked at that already?
14:50 jnthn timotimo: the exceptions ones are mostly NYIs
14:50 lizmat don't we need a version bump to see those changes ?
14:50 jnthn timotimo: Looked at what?
14:50 timotimo lizmat: doesn't coke run against master?
14:50 timotimo jnthn: the exception failures
14:50 timotimo probably just a case of creating a type dexception instead of mvm_exception_throw_adhoc
14:50 jnthn timotimo: No, but as I said, they're just places where we didn't write the code to throw a typed exception yet.
14:50 zakharyas joined #perl6
14:51 lizmat timotimo: I have no idea
14:51 timotimo should be an easy thing to do for me right now :)
14:51 timotimo should be lots of stealable code nearby
14:51 jnap joined #perl6
14:51 FROGGS [Coke]++ is smoking rakudo HEAD and the specified versions of nqp/moar/parrot
14:52 jnthn timotimo: yes, shouldn't be hard.
14:52 [Coke] timotimo: not explicitly, but I do run with a fresh nqp checkout that is pre-fetched, so we should get it implicitly.
14:52 [Coke] ... or froggs could be right. :)
14:53 [Coke] I think FROGGS is right - not explicit, so get the last specified version.
14:53 [Coke] e.g. rakudo.moar's nqp is: 21a89d7
14:53 FROGGS https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/blob/master/bin/rakudo.moar.sh
14:53 [Coke] (which is 2014.03). FROGGS++ for remembering what I did better than I did. :)
14:53 FROGGS *g*
14:54 timotimo [Coke]: sounds good; but i suppose we still need to bump moar then :)
14:54 [Coke] timotimo: aye.
14:54 [Coke] (this is as oppposed to the rakudo-star-daily one, which gets master for everything but parrot, IIRC.)
14:55 ssutch_ joined #perl6
14:57 timotimo jnthn: where should i look to find how to throw a typed exception properly from inside the perl6_ops.c?
14:57 timotimo would that be get_thrower?
14:58 jnthn get_thrower, yeah.
15:00 * [Coke] gets a headhunter bite off of -parrot-
15:00 [Coke] weird.
15:02 * jnthn wonders if that's the same headhunter bite he got off MoarVM/Rakudo today :)
15:03 kst joined #perl6
15:06 hoelzro morning #perl6!
15:06 FROGGS hi hoelzro
15:06 araujo joined #perl6
15:06 hoelzro timotimo: I haven't had a chance to look at it yet (still waiting on internet at home =/), but I should get a chance soon
15:06 hoelzro ahoy FROGGS
15:07 timotimo which "it" is that exactly?
15:09 hoelzro timotimo: the kate syntax file
15:09 timotimo oh
15:09 hoelzro you messaged me on like Saturday =)
15:09 timotimo i see :)
15:09 timotimo why would you have to wait for internets at home? :P
15:09 timotimo isn't that the right exercise to do when you're out of internets?
15:09 hoelzro heh
15:09 hoelzro well, I need to install things at home to be able to work on the syntax stuff )
15:10 hoelzro also, no internet time is usually good for getting misc. housework done
15:10 hoelzro since I have nothing better to do
15:11 timotimo OK :)
15:15 xenoterracide joined #perl6
15:17 timotimo didn't someone fix the bug with pack "mA"?
15:18 timotimo or rather, the test?
15:18 FROGGS timotimo: me
15:18 FROGGS it was "mÄ"
15:19 timotimo i forgot to re-fudge :)
15:19 FROGGS ahh
15:19 FROGGS :o)
15:21 colomon what's the current status of web frameworks on rakudo?
15:24 lizmat what do you mean with web framework?  Plack? Dancer? Catalyst?
15:25 colomon Dancer or Catalyst, that sort of thing
15:25 colomon Bailador.
15:25 colomon but I don't know if it's up-to-date?
15:25 colomon it is passing all tests.
15:26 lizmat then it is up to date to some extent, I would guess  :-)
15:26 colomon lizmat: that might mean it doesn't actually have any tests.  ;0
15:26 colomon ;)
15:27 lizmat ah, eh, hmmmm
15:27 jnap1 joined #perl6
15:30 guru joined #perl6
15:31 Sqirrel joined #perl6
15:32 kaleem joined #perl6
15:33 cognominal joined #perl6
15:35 timotimo hmm. i'm changing a wrong exception type to an X::AdHoc with the right message
15:35 timotimo is that an improvement? :P
15:35 jnthn No, that happens automagically, I think... :)
15:39 timotimo jnthn: how will we teach the binder on moar to do typed exceptions? currently we have the $error[0] = "a string message" "solution". can we just put a typed exception into that instead of a string?
15:39 tadzik Bailador has some tests :)
15:39 tadzik that means it's working to at least some extent
15:39 colomon tadzik: Just installed it using panda
15:39 jnthn timotimo: We could if we teach the thing that consumes it whant to do, yes
15:40 tadzik nice
15:40 timotimo sounds easy enough. i'd like to do it if you'll accept that code :)
15:40 jnthn have a crack at it.
15:43 jnthn flight &
15:44 timotimo well, it looks like it just calls nqp::die($error[0])
15:44 timotimo i'm not sure i'll even have to teach it about typed exceptions especially
15:45 timotimo r: try nqp::die(X::Item.new(aggregate => "cow", index => 1)); say $!.WHAT; say $!;
15:45 camelia rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«(X::AdHoc)␤This type cannot unbox to a native string␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
15:45 camelia ..rakudo-parrot ffa572: OUTPUT«(X::AdHoc)␤Cannot index Str with 1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
15:45 camelia ..rakudo-jvm ffa572: OUTPUT«(X::AdHoc)␤This representation can not unbox to a native str␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
15:45 timotimo oh, i was wrong.
15:45 timotimo r: try nqp::throw(X::Item.new(aggregate => "cow", index => 1)); say $!.WHAT; say $!;
15:45 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572: OUTPUT«(X::AdHoc)␤Not a throwable object␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
15:45 camelia ..rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«(X::AdHoc)␤Can only throw an exception object␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
15:45 camelia ..rakudo-jvm ffa572: OUTPUT«(X::AdHoc)␤throw needs an object with VMException representation␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
15:45 timotimo okay, that's much more low-level
15:45 timotimo but i suppose i can just create the object and .throw it
15:46 timotimo hm, though, being in the BOOTSTRAP.nqp, i'll probably have to have some magic to look up the actual classes
15:47 kaare_ joined #perl6
15:56 ssutch_ joined #perl6
15:57 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
16:00 colomon Bailador working on my Mac, tadzik++
16:02 tadzik nice!
16:06 timotimo but can it do websockets?
16:06 tadzik nope
16:06 tadzik well volunteered! P:
16:06 timotimo i don't even know how that works.
16:07 PerlJam sri does  ;>
16:07 PerlJam (or just copy what mojo does)
16:07 tadzik I think it's an upgrade from regular sockets
16:08 btyler tadzik: I grabbed ThroughTheWindow on my mac, it worked without anything special. runs very smooth (or did for about 1009 pixels :)
16:08 tadzik so, a layer over (under?)
16:08 tadzik btyler: awesome, thanks :)
16:08 tadzik btyler: did you like it?
16:08 btyler its a lovely little game. I certainly did that as a kid in the car
16:12 hoelzro tadzik++
16:17 tadzik glad to hear that :)
16:23 dmol joined #perl6
16:28 * lizmat wonders whether "coccoon" is just the American spelling of "cocoon"
16:28 lizmat or do I miss some other joke with "coccoon" ?
16:28 hoelzro lizmat: doesn't look familiar to me =/
16:29 lizmat so, just a misspelling, right?
16:29 hoelzro probably
16:30 lizmat thanks, was afraid I missed some pop culture reference
16:30 lizmat but even the movie is spelled "Cocoon"
16:30 tadzik Racoon
16:30 geekosaur just one of those words that gets misspelled a lot
16:32 Sqirrel joined #perl6
16:34 * colomon tends to get confused about which letters are doubled and which are not in words like that.
16:34 geekosaur you just gotta remember it, there's no actual rules :/
16:34 geekosaur english are weird
16:34 geekosaur (well, there are rules, they just have so many exceptions that they might as well not exist)
16:35 molaf_ joined #perl6
16:37 SamuraiJack_ joined #perl6
16:39 tadzik colomon++ # improving bailador
16:40 lizmat cycling&
16:42 colomon tadzik: I needed it so it didn't conflict with my Dancer instance on my Linux box.  :)  (That would be the smoke test results page.)
16:44 telex joined #perl6
16:45 [Coke] lunch break - anyone have a suggestion on how to get sdl working on os x 10.9 with nativecall? (specifically TTW's build)
16:46 kivutar joined #perl6
16:46 colomon [Coke]: I got it working (on 10.8) by building sdl from source.  then everything was groovy
16:47 [Coke] colomon: I tried installing libsdl via ports (boom) and via libsdl.org (whiff) - if I change the sniffer to use sdl-config instead of sdl2-config, I get further into the build... but then it dies (version mismatch, I assume?)
16:48 [Coke] ... weird. the sdl-config is giving me a macports one...
16:49 btyler [Coke]: I got it working on 10.9 with zero hassle, just 'brew install sdl2'
16:49 btyler and 'panda install NativeCall'
16:49 [Coke] I assume brew is some hip new replacement for port ?
16:49 btyler yeah, essentially
16:50 btyler homebrew. keeps everything in /usr/local so you don't need to install stuff as root
16:50 * [Coke] realizes he was literally installing 'libsdl' not 'libsdl2', and tries that.
16:50 larks joined #perl6
16:52 geekosaur brew is the macports alternative for people who hate seatbelts
16:52 hoelzro and like driving in the fastlane =P
16:52 geekosaur violates security, generally written without any error checking, naturally people love it to death
16:52 geekosaur yes, it;s really fast until it trashes you
16:52 geekosaur enjoy it
16:52 hoelzro I happen to agree
16:53 hoelzro I have a love/hate relationship with brew
16:53 btyler I'm just an uninformed user, but it has worked well for my needs
16:53 btyler haven't used/tried macports
16:53 hoelzro and the sad thing is, people look at it and say "why can't all Linux package managers be like this?"
16:53 hoelzro it works 95% of the time
16:53 hoelzro but it breaks stuff a *lot*
16:53 hoelzro at least it has for me
16:54 tadzik hrm, so why do people miss it on linux?
16:54 tadzik I like basically every linux package manager I ever used
16:54 geekosaur because linuc package managers enforce rules, while homebrew doesn't give a flying fuck abotu rules
16:54 geekosaur so it's easy and fast and painless right up until it screws you hard
16:55 hoelzro I think that people like the fact that they can submit PRs for package formulae
16:55 hoelzro which by itself isn't a bad idea
16:55 hoelzro but there's no review process
16:55 hoelzro it's anarchy
16:55 tadzik :o wwatt
16:55 tadzik so you install a package, and hope no one put malware in there 10 seconds ago?
16:55 geekosaur pretty much
16:56 [Coke] hoelzro: so, it's cpan?
16:56 hoelzro bah dum tssssh
16:56 [Coke] :)
16:56 ssutch_ joined #perl6
16:57 geekosaur so over in #haskell there's one person who used to strongly recommend homebrew, to the extent of immediately jumping on and insulting anyone who dared to mention macports
16:58 geekosaur over the past 2 months, he's had to help people untangle problems with the recommended ghc brew recipe
16:58 geekosaur he's stopped recommending homebrew
17:00 * [Coke] ignores the weird warning at the end of installing libsdl2, and is able to play the game!
17:00 tadzik yay :)
17:01 colomon \o/
17:01 retupmoca .tell jnthn I golfed my Compress::Zlib::Raw compilation issue from the other day: https://gist.github.com/retupmoca/9744166 - I have not tested to see if this is NativeCall specific
17:01 yoleaux retupmoca: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
17:01 vendethiel geekosaur: homebrew has had problems with haskell for a very long time ...
17:01 [Coke] tadzik: when i was a kid, I imagined it was spiderman. made it easier to explain why he was jumping from building to building. :)
17:01 tadzik ah :)
17:02 tadzik I was mostly driving through countryside
17:02 [Coke] speaking of haskell, anyone want to help me get pugs working on the new roast box?
17:02 tadzik well, being driven :P
17:02 tadzik but everyone imagined something similar: ain't that something cool
17:02 * colomon mostly read on car trips of significant length
17:03 tadzik I was getting carsick when I read. I maybe still do, but I play it safe and don't try
17:03 tadzik now I mostly sleep, when I'm supposed to keep the driver awake :P
17:03 raydiak joined #perl6
17:05 timotimo out of lack of need for self-preservation? :P
17:06 timotimo i should start with the p6weekly post, actually
17:08 colomon Installing Bailador from a local directory 'Bailador'
17:08 colomon hmmm
17:11 kurahaupo joined #perl6
17:21 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
17:24 Rotwang joined #perl6
17:24 Rotwang joined #perl6
17:26 timotimo not too many changes to report for the weekly, i'm afraid
17:26 timotimo or am i missing something?
17:29 timotimo do we have a star release manager for this month yet?
17:31 timotimo oh, we didn't bump the parrot version for this month's release
17:34 Alula joined #perl6
17:35 dalek perl6-roast-data: 371b329 | coke++ | / (6 files):
17:35 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
17:35 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/371b329782
17:35 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
17:36 tadzik colomon: if there's a local dir with a maching name, panda will install from there
17:36 tadzik I should maybe change that
17:36 colomon It's a great feature for testing, I guess.
17:37 colomon but it's really important to know that it's there.  ;)
17:37 tadzik it should probably be more explicit though
17:37 tadzik like, require ./Bailador
17:37 PerlJam tadzik: +1
17:37 guru joined #perl6
17:37 tadzik yay, new bug
17:37 PerlJam As long as that doesn't affect "panda install ."
17:37 timotimo or installing a module named "."
17:39 tadzik oh yes, 'install .' is a common usecase
17:39 tadzik even bootstrap relies on that
17:40 PerlJam tadzik++
17:46 denisboyun joined #perl6
17:48 timotimo hm, the lead moar has over jvm isn't all unicode database, is it?
17:49 hoverboard joined #perl6
17:49 simula67 hi
17:51 timotimo greetings, simula67
17:51 simula67 Is there any windows graphical text editor ( like Notepad++ ) with syntax highlighting for Perl 6 ?
17:51 timotimo is GVim an acceptable candidate?
17:54 simula67 I need to try that again. Last time I tried it I remember it did not allow copy pasting to and from other apps
17:55 simula67 might as well use plain vim in that case
17:57 ssutch_ joined #perl6
17:58 raydiak simula67: gvim does allow access to the os clipboard, it just doesn't use it as the default one for its copy/paste
17:59 retupmoca simula67: are you familier with vim registers? On my linux machine, the * and + registers sync to my clipboard
17:59 raydiak simula67: if you put "set clipboard=unnamed" in your _vimrc, it'll use the os clipboard by default
18:01 denis_boyun__ joined #perl6
18:04 simula67 raydiak: thanks, i will try that when i switch to windows. I need a way to hack on this while at work :)
18:07 raydiak simula67: works on linux and mac too :) (except w/.vimrc instead of _vimrc)
18:10 simula67 Pacman gives me this :: gvim and vim are in conflict. Remove vim? [y/N] n
18:10 raydiak gvim package under arch provides both console and gui vim, iirc
18:15 raydiak yes, gvim provides vim (just checked)...though fwiw, you don't need gvim to use the clipboard
18:18 tadzik timotimo: it seems like the font changes after the 2nd paragraph of p6weekly
18:19 simula67 raydiak: yes, i just installed it. looks good. let me try on windows as well. thanks
18:20 raydiak simula67: under linux you might need to use unnamedplus instead of unnamed, depending on which clipboard/cut buffer you use. you're welcome and good luck
18:20 tadzik timotimo++ # nice post
18:21 tadzik timotimo: mind linking to the blog? People might not know who the tadzik fellow is
18:25 rindolf joined #perl6
18:26 IllvilJa joined #perl6
18:28 btyler joined #perl6
18:36 hoelzro timotimo: wrt that syntax highlighting bug you found, it seems that y is being recognized as a keyword
18:41 zakharyas joined #perl6
18:52 vendethiel for GSoC, who decides on who's in / who's out ?
18:52 tadzik org mentors
18:53 tadzik to some extent, at least. They're given a number of slots by google, and are to fill them to best of their abilities
18:53 vendethiel oh, so I could've a chance actually
18:56 ssutch_ joined #perl6
19:06 timotimo tadzik: but i linked to your blog
19:06 * [Coke] wonders if we could autogen https://github.com/vim-perl/vim-perl/blob/master/syntax/perl6.vim from STD.p6
19:06 tadzik ah, it's just visible on hover :) ok
19:07 timotimo wtf, why is it all the stuf bold?
19:07 hoelzro [Coke]: that's not a bad idea
19:07 hoelzro hell, autogen pygments + perl6.vim + perl6-kate
19:07 * hoelzro .oO( Perl6 Cate? )
19:09 MrMeek joined #perl6
19:13 BenGoldberg std: sub infix:<ow> is assoc('list') { $^a + $^b }; say [Row] 1..4
19:13 camelia std 09dda5b: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 130m␤»
19:14 vendethiel r: 0 R 1
19:14 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32m0 R[33mâ��[31m 1[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤  â€¦Â»
19:14 Alina-malina joined #perl6
19:14 Alina-malina joined #perl6
19:14 vendethiel r: 0..2 R+ 3..5
19:15 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Operators '..' and '..' are non-associative and require parenthesisâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32m0..2 R+ 3.[33mâ��[31m.5[0mâ�¤    expectin…»
19:15 vendethiel r: say (0..2) R+ (3..5)
19:15 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«6␤»
19:15 vendethiel I don't even know what does this do :P
19:15 BenGoldberg The R meta-operator reverses the arguments to the operator it's attached to
19:15 BenGoldberg r: say 5 r/ 3
19:15 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32msay 5 [33mâ��[31mr/ 3[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopper…»
19:15 BenGoldberg r: say 5 R/ 3
19:16 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«0.6␤»
19:16 * jnthn gets home
19:16 yoleaux 17:01Z <retupmoca> jnthn: I golfed my Compress::Zlib::Raw compilation issue from the other day: https://gist.github.com/retupmoca/9744166 - I have not tested to see if this is NativeCall specific
19:16 BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<ow> is assoc('list') { $^a + $^b }; say [Row] 1..4
19:16 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:17009␤  in sub  at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:17151␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
19:16 camelia ..rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤  in block  at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16808␤  in sub  at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16950␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
19:16 camelia ..rakudo-jvm ffa572: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤  in block  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:16754␤  in sub  at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:16896␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
19:16 FROGGS vendethiel: you have submitted a GSoC application?
19:17 vendethiel FROGGS: no, I havn't, because I thought only google decided (basically randomly) and I'm never lucky
19:18 [Coke] next time talk to us!
19:18 FROGGS no, the mentors are supposed to vote the proposals up/down, and then the top X are taken (where X is number of slots we got)
19:19 FROGGS actually mentors + org admins
19:19 vendethiel Well, is it too late already ?
19:19 FROGGS yes
19:19 FROGGS deadline was on friday
19:19 vendethiel Oh,really? Gotta tell a friend then, he's still getting messages from a mentor
19:20 FROGGS vendethiel: btw, you can still pick a topic and we do the mentoring, you just won't get payed :o)
19:21 vendethiel FROGGS, I can't, it needs to be official for my school to count it
19:21 FROGGS you can do it just for fun and profit, err, fun and learning perhaps :o)
19:22 vendethiel I have 8 months to do a 6-month internship, I've been told that "GSoC might be okay but not long enough" so I'd have had to find something else on the side, but everything they have internally is 6-8 months
19:22 [Coke] if you want to set it up as an independent study or something, I'm sure you could find a mentor to work with you.
19:22 [Coke] or get your advisor to join the community. :)
19:22 vendethiel Yeah, though I can't really do it in GSoC's period of time because I'll be very busy with said internship
19:23 vendethiel well, I'm not that introverted not to participate in a big open source project (I love it), I just don't really know where to start and, as everybody, I have a limited free time
19:24 vendethiel although I've seen "low-hanging fruits" in p6weekly by timotimo++ ?
19:24 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
19:27 timotimo once, aye
19:30 vendethiel that's a good incentive
19:30 vendethiel (is that the good word for it ? eh)
19:30 colomon vendethiel: just trying to write code in p6 can be really useful.  or at least, it seems like I turn up some sort of compiler issue every time I do…. ;)
19:31 vendethiel colomon: to try and code what ?
19:31 colomon vendethiel: whatever catches your fancy!
19:31 vendethiel colomon: nothing does, that's my problem
19:31 vendethiel up to the point I'm thinking of making a "Programming Ideas" website ...
19:32 colomon vendethiel: maybe you should go back to the classics.  program "hunt the wumpus" or something.
19:32 * vendethiel googles
19:32 spider-mario joined #perl6
19:33 vendethiel I already did a game of life, but that kind of stuff is not ... "real-lify", you don't really hit problems
19:33 vendethiel though, is there an ascii-based-games framework for perl6 yet ?
19:34 btyler joined #perl6
19:35 jnap joined #perl6
19:36 FROGGS vendethiel: perhaps this? https://github.com/masak/Adventure-Engine
19:36 vendethiel haha, so that's not a project either
19:37 FROGGS vendethiel: why don't you improve it or do your own and just get some ideas?
19:38 vendethiel I don't feel like it's interesting to do it on my own
19:38 FROGGS bah
19:38 FROGGS :P
19:38 vendethiel I can do "on my own" project ideas, but framework I prefer to leave state of the art
19:39 FROGGS well, it sounds more like choosing between making state of the art in distant future or producing something smaller in near future
19:40 sivoais joined #perl6
19:41 vendethiel FROGGS, yeah, I know
19:42 vendethiel it's just that it feels "distant"
19:47 * lizmat is back from cycling
19:48 lizmat timotimo++ # weekly update
19:49 timotimo the primary property of this week's update is that it's weekly :|
19:52 dalek specs: a30bb46 | jonathan++ | S22-package-format.pod:
19:52 dalek specs: Minor language tweaks.
19:52 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a30bb465cd
19:53 lizmat jnthn++
19:53 jnthn Here are a few other things that crossed my mind as I read it: https://gist.github.com/jnthn/9747719
19:55 lizmat jnthn: wrt to emulates: the way I see it, is that if compunit Foo emulates Bar, it will install an alias
19:55 lizmat that will cause loading of compunit Bar to become a noop
19:55 lizmat no more and no less
19:56 lizmat module Foo will need to make sure it is otherwise compatible
19:56 lizmat e.g. by exporting the same subs / providing the same method API
19:59 molaf__ joined #perl6
20:00 lizmat jnthn: does that make sense?
20:00 lizmat wrt to development of CompUnit / CompUnitRepo
20:00 FROGGS jnthn: the production readiness is a problem for installed dists, yes
20:00 lizmat the idea is that a developer has a CompUnitRepo::Local as its first @INC entry
20:01 FROGGS not for dists in your dev environment though, since we only care about names (like in provides) there, but not about auth, ver, or production state
20:01 lizmat that special version will use the current compunit load semantics where the requested name directly maps to a directory/filename
20:01 lizmat *without* looking at auth / ver
20:02 FROGGS yeah, like we do for rakudo/nqp things
20:02 jnthn lizmat: Ah, so emulates just means "yes, I herby confirm that the module does the right things to implement the other thing"? OK, then I'm comfortable.
20:02 lizmat the CompUnitRepo API accepts a compunit name to be searched
20:02 FROGGS these are bound to a filesystem lookup
20:02 jnthn s/implement/provide a compatible implementation of/
20:02 lizmat jnthn: indeed
20:03 FROGGS but as I said, the installed non-production dists need some pondering
20:03 lizmat wrt to "production" / "not production": the way I see that
20:04 lizmat is that a "not production" distribution will never be returned by a recommendation manager
20:04 jnthn lizmat: Does -Ilib count as installing a CompUnitRepo::Local?
20:04 lizmat yes, that's the idea
20:04 FROGGS jnthn: yes
20:04 jnthn OK, that makes sense.
20:04 lizmat so, "not production" is a barrier against automatic installation / update
20:05 FROGGS lizmat: what about smokers, that pick up recent releases and test them? these should smoke non-production stuff as well
20:05 lizmat but it is *not* a barrier against specific installation
20:05 FROGGS and other ppl might want to have bleading edge too
20:05 lizmat it's just as with the -TRIAL now in Perl 5 distributions
20:05 lizmat it will never appear on the module list, so it won't be used for automatic updates
20:05 FROGGS lizmat: but how do I say that I want latest Foo::Bar, even a dev version?
20:06 FROGGS say I have it already installed
20:06 FROGGS and then?
20:06 FROGGS how does my use statement look like?
20:06 lizmat .oO( pondering )
20:06 FROGGS it is tricky
20:06 FROGGS smokers will prefer an env var, but common users probably not
20:06 lizmat the use statement, in that context, is only sensitive to version
20:07 jnthn lizmat: Ah, so production is reifying a convention (though from the other angle) that has already appeared in the Perl 5 community?
20:07 lizmat yes
20:07 lizmat that was my idea
20:07 jnthn lizmat: That makes me more comfortable with its existence.
20:07 FROGGS jnthn: I did that often
20:07 lizmat a dev version has a different version number
20:08 lizmat the "production" flag is only applicable to installers
20:08 jnthn lizmat: I was a little worried it might be a solution looking for a problem, but trusted that you'd have a better grasp on the set of problems out there than I do ;)
20:08 lizmat an installer has the option of installing "production" distributions only
20:08 FROGGS I released SDL 2.540 stable, and then 2.541_1 to 2.541_9 as dev releases to hunt down bugs, and then rereleased the _9 as next stable
20:09 lizmat or install non-production distributions also
20:09 FROGGS ohh, »the "production" flag is only applicable to installers«, interesting idea
20:09 lizmat the "use" statement only knows about what's installed
20:09 FROGGS sure
20:10 lizmat and what's installed really is determined how CompUnitRepo's handle requests for compunits
20:10 lizmat I could envision a CompUnitRepo::Cloud
20:10 FROGGS so when I choose to install Foo-0.1-TRIAL, it will later be considered like stable releases in use statements
20:10 lizmat that would just download any module ad-hoc without even really installing
20:10 lizmat FROGGS: yes, that's my idea
20:11 FROGGS lizmat: I like it
20:11 lizmat of course, during runtime, you can introspect the distriibution info and find out whether the code is actually production ready
20:13 lizmat jnthn: does that answer your questions?
20:13 jnthn lizmat: Yes, sufficiently well. :)
20:14 jnthn lizmat: I suspect implementation and usage will give some clarity too :)
20:14 lizmat hoping to find time for that after I get back from Cluj
20:15 FROGGS I will also have more time for implementing latest changes after gpw
20:16 FROGGS would be awesome to get the CPAN indexer ready soonish, I guess that is the next thing I tackle when my slides are in a good state
20:16 segomos FROGGS: a CPAN indexer?
20:16 lizmat way cool
20:16 FROGGS segomos: yes
20:16 segomos i'd be interested in building it.. in perl6 or ? and for what purpose?
20:16 lizmat yes, we're going to have Perl 6 distributions on CPAN soon  :-)
20:16 FROGGS segomos: in the first step it just records all Perl 6 releases, so we can plug panda to CPAN
20:17 FROGGS segomos: in the PAUSE code (Perl 5)
20:17 lizmat .oO( with a very strong Perl 4 odour )
20:17 FROGGS if you say so :o)
20:18 lizmat 20+ year old code has that smell  :-)
20:18 FROGGS true
20:18 segomos how are you differentiating perl6 on CPAN?
20:18 * lizmat is glad she doesn't have to maintain her Perl code of 20 years ago
20:18 lizmat segomos: it's all in S22
20:18 segomos i will read s22 then
20:19 FROGGS segomos: the release tarball must contain a META6.json, and then it is put in a Perl6/ subdir in your author's directory
20:19 lizmat basically, PAUSE checks whether there is a META6.json file in the distribution
20:19 lizmat what FROGGS says  :-)
20:19 FROGGS and then a Perl 6 indexer carries on, instead of the Perl 5 one which handles namespace right very very strightly
20:19 FROGGS rights*
20:20 FROGGS ownership, even
20:20 segomos i'll read it, it sounds like something i'd contribute to
20:21 FROGGS segomos: the problem/task is not that difficult, but the codebase is
20:21 lizmat and there is no dev environment
20:21 lizmat and we don't want to break Perl 5 distribution uploads to CPAN  :-)
20:22 FROGGS true, very true
20:22 segomos i need to learn how to get the information from CPAN too, i'll read a little and come back and ask some more questions
20:22 FROGGS that is where we hook in: https://github.com/andk/pause/blob/master/lib/PAUSE/mldistwatch.pm#L455
20:23 FROGGS segomos: the idea is to create a huge json blurb by a cron job, containing basic distribution information from the META6.json files
20:23 segomos the most i've looked at cpan is 'cpanm <module>' and that's pretty much my total interaction with it
20:23 lue FROGGS: how long has that # XXX been there? :)
20:24 FROGGS lue: FROGGS 3 days ago
20:24 FROGGS let indexing for Perl6 be a noop
20:25 [Coke] oooh, cf regex support \b! my day is made!
20:26 ssutch__ joined #perl6
20:26 FROGGS PCRE FTW!
20:27 timotimo jnthn: what does your tuit supply look like while the gpw happens?
20:28 rurban1 joined #perl6
20:28 dalek specs: 4591626 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S22-package-format.pod:
20:28 dalek specs: Some clarifications, after questions from jnthn++
20:28 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/459162649f
20:38 hoelzro wrt using STD.pm6 to generate syntax files, what did you have in mind? introspecting it to find certain keywords, or...?
20:42 tadzik I was offline for the last 1.5 hours :o
20:42 tadzik and didn't even notice
20:42 lizmat and you thought we were quiet  :-)
20:42 tadzik yes!
20:42 lizmat well, I have been for many weeks, but not today  :-)
20:46 timotimo tadzik: i really missed you!
20:47 jnthn timotimo: I should have some during the next week.
20:47 timotimo sounds good
20:48 timotimo can you tell me how to get the exception classes into the BOOTSTRAP.nqp for the binder to use?
20:48 jnthn You don't
20:48 jnthn You install things to create such exceptions in P6EX or so
20:49 jnthn Search for X::Multi::NoMatch for an example
20:49 jnthn But here you'd have it construct the exception and return it, rather than actually throw it.
20:49 timotimo ah, looks simple
20:50 timotimo and then i call .throw on it when it's time to go explodey-plode?
20:50 jnthn And have the text fallback for the "compiling th esetting" case.
20:50 jnthn Yeah
20:50 jnthn You can use nqp::isstr to see if you have a string one, and if not then you know to .throw
20:51 timotimo so if nqp::isstr($error[0]) { nqp::die(...
20:51 timotimo yeah
20:51 timotimo i was about to write that, but i got distracted by Firefly on the telly :)
20:59 colomon You can't take the sky from me.
21:03 timotimo r: sub test(int $foo) { }; my str $test = "hi"; test($test);
21:03 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Calling 'test' will never work with argument types (str)â�¤    Expected: :(int $foo)â�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32mest(int $foo) { }; my str $test = "hi"; [33m…»
21:03 camelia ..rakudo-jvm ffa572: OUTPUT«java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to org.perl6.nqp.sixmodel.SixModelObject␤  in sub test at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
21:03 timotimo oh, well.
21:03 timotimo don't need to turn that into a typed exception if it won't ever fly in the binder
21:03 jnthn Um...wat, jvm? :)
21:04 jnthn Well, on Parrot and Moar it successfully ges it at compile time.
21:04 timotimo right
21:06 timotimo i don't seem to find typed exceptions for most things the binder would complain about >_>
21:10 timotimo actually ... i kind of see none
21:12 jnthn Yeah, the binder isn't very typed-execptioned
21:12 LLamaRider joined #perl6
21:13 LLamaRider lue: I just came to your P6 type hierarchy repo, while searching for a pretty dependency graph of the built-in type/class system. Did anything come of that?
21:13 lue LLamaRider: the perl6/doc repo does a much better job of having a typegraph :)
21:14 LLamaRider does that mean a graph exists in there and your repo is obsolete?
21:14 LLamaRider I will do some digging then
21:16 LLamaRider oh there are nice graphs on the individual class pages, cool!
21:16 * lue afk
21:16 timotimo where is that repository?
21:17 timotimo may want to take it down if it's outdated or update it
21:17 FROGGS https://github.com/lue/Perl-6-Type-Hierarchy
21:17 LLamaRider this is lue's repo: https://github.com/lue/Perl-6-Type-Hierarchy
21:18 LLamaRider http://doc.perl6.org/images/ is exactly what I was dreaming of, though it is missing a large image of everything
21:19 FROGGS m: say ObjAt
21:19 camelia rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«(ObjAt)␤»
21:19 FROGGS what is that?
21:19 timotimo what, where?
21:19 dayangkun joined #perl6
21:20 lizmat it's a type ?
21:20 FROGGS n: say ObjAt
21:20 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«(ObjAt)␤»
21:20 FROGGS seems so...
21:20 FROGGS seen the .svg of it and now I wonder what it does
21:20 FROGGS m: say ObjAt.^methods
21:20 camelia rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«WHICH Str gist␤»
21:20 lizmat it's declared in BOOTSTRAP
21:20 tadzik can someone read my "rakudo on android" comment (http://ttjjss.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/perl-6-on-steroids-through-the-window/#comment-302) and see if I got it mostly right?
21:21 jnthn Specified in S02 I think.
21:21 jnthn Related to boject hashing.
21:22 FROGGS tadzik: sounds about right to me, but what do I know :o)
21:22 tadzik :P
21:22 guru joined #perl6
21:22 tadzik FROGGS: I don't think I get your comment on panda bug
21:22 FROGGS humm?
21:22 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/73
21:22 lizmat S02:620
21:22 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_620
21:22 lizmat oops: S02:640
21:22 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_640
21:23 cognominal joined #perl6
21:23 FROGGS tadzik: well, the solution would be to put an absolute path in the installed scripts, right?
21:24 tadzik I think the problem in the bug is happening much sooner
21:24 FROGGS lizmat: thanks
21:24 tadzik panda, when it's bootstraping panda, runs 'perl6 ./bin/panda da da da yada'
21:24 jnthn tadzik: I think Android runs Dvalik
21:24 tadzik fsvo perl6
21:24 jnthn tadzik: Not a JVM
21:24 FROGGS tadzik: ahh, troo
21:24 jnthn tadzik: So the question is when JSR292 gets implemented in Dvalik
21:24 timotimo X::TypeCheck::Binding doesn't have a slot for the name of the bound thing
21:24 tadzik and that vo perl6 is wrong :P
21:25 jnthn https://bitbucket.org/jpilliet/android-292 is some work towards that
21:25 tadzik jnthn: Dalvik :)
21:25 timotimo the current AdHoc does tell which name was bound
21:25 jnthn oh wwow :)
21:25 tadzik well, I wrote "android jvm implementation", isn't that what dalvik is?
21:26 geekosaur not exactly
21:26 geekosaur there's a step in building an android program that translates jvm bytecode to dalvik bytecode
21:26 jnthn Not quite. It runs something other than JVM bytecode, but JVM bytecode can easily be turned into that, as I understand it.
21:26 timotimo except if you use invokedynamic
21:26 tadzik aha
21:27 tadzik I'll just say "Dalvik (Android's VM)"
21:27 geekosaur also it seems recent android has an experimental new runtime in it (you can access via developer mode, but there are a lot of nasty warnings on using it)
21:27 FROGGS a usable rakudo on android would be a killer... but I guess we are not that near as we would hope :o)
21:27 hoelzro dalvik doesn't support invokedynamic =(
21:28 tadzik uh, I overworkedout
21:28 FROGGS what about ubuntu phone thingy? has somebody such a phone?
21:29 timotimo how do i proceed?
21:29 jnap1 joined #perl6
21:29 tadzik was it ever released, in an installable state?
21:30 tadzik oh, I can probably try running rakudo-moar on my n900 :)
21:30 FROGGS yes, you can download it for two phone models
21:30 tadzik hoelzro can try running it on Jolla
21:30 hoelzro hmm
21:30 FROGGS timotimo: the problem is that you would have to extend X::TypeCheck::Binding?
21:30 hoelzro that's a cool idea
21:30 hoelzro no reason I couldn't
21:31 tadzik linking to QML may be a bit of a pain
21:31 tadzik I know Go needed to get a C++-nativecall to do that
21:31 hoelzro =(
21:32 hoelzro Go has a C++ nativecall?
21:32 timotimo ok 623 - right exception type (X::TypeCheck::Binding)
21:32 timotimo yay
21:32 timotimo FROGGS: i think i could do that, aye
21:32 timotimo maybe with just an optional parameter?
21:32 FROGGS timotimo++
21:32 FROGGS why not, yes
21:33 FROGGS there are other exceptions that have an optional attribute and therefor two different messages
21:33 tadzik hoelzro: yeah
21:33 FROGGS (like with suggestions)
21:33 tadzik since 1.something
21:33 hoelzro I wonder how they pull that off...
21:34 tadzik and now it can use qml and things
21:34 tadzik wait
21:34 tadzik I have a gif just for that
21:34 FROGGS a C++ nativecall meme?
21:34 tadzik http://goo.gl/WxAgDl
21:34 tadzik it speaks in your head, even
21:35 FROGGS hehehe
21:35 FROGGS tadzik++
21:36 FROGGS that might be a response I could give at the gpw on wednesday *g*
21:36 tadzik gifs work quite well on presentations
21:36 tadzik I tried :P
21:37 FROGGS I just need a rediculous shirt
21:39 timotimo ./perl6-m -e 'my class A {}; (-> &c, $m { A.new()(); CATCH { default { $m } } } )(A, "")'
21:39 timotimo Type check failed in binding &c; expected 'Callable' but got 'A'
21:40 masak heh, I remember that one :)
21:40 masak it used to blow up horribly.
21:41 masak managed to Null PMC access on the $m not being properly initialized because the CATCH caught the type mismatch error.
21:41 timotimo ouch
21:41 masak in the *middle of the signature binding*.
21:41 timotimo well, at least we get the name of the parameter on moar now
21:42 timotimo moar is getting better than the other backends day by day :P
21:42 masak better yet; we don't get a Null PMC access anymore :)
21:42 masak timotimo: which RT # was that, ooc?
21:42 timotimo no clue
21:43 masak where di you get the code from?
21:43 masak did*
21:43 jnthn I think that one mighta been fixed all the way back in the PAST -> QAST transition.
21:44 masak I did a talk about it last summer, but it might've been fixed by then.
21:44 jnthn Which killed PAST::Handler in favor of nqp::handle
21:44 jnthn In which case we're talking a couple of years ago.
21:47 dalek rakudo/nom: aa99985 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/vm/moar/ops/perl6_ops.c:
21:47 dalek rakudo/nom: turn an adhoc into X::ControlFlow::Return
21:47 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aa99985e4d
21:47 dalek rakudo/nom: af8d426 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/ (2 files):
21:47 dalek rakudo/nom: teach the moarvm binder X::TypeCheck::Binding and X:: in general
21:47 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/af8d426a8a
21:47 timotimo anything wrong with that? :)
21:48 * lizmat pulls and spectests
21:48 timotimo thank you, liz
21:51 masak ah, found it: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=114134
21:53 lizmat timotimo: hmm seems to hang in spectest, rerunning without parallel testing
21:54 lizmat timotimo: hangs on t/spec/S02-literals/listquote.rakudo.moar ..................... 1/23
21:54 timotimo er ... huh?
21:54 timotimo did i accidentally push something i didn't mean to?
21:55 timotimo i don't think i did
21:56 lizmat testing again without your changes
21:59 [Coke] so, rakudo-jvm craps out for me when running the roast suite still. Can someone else try it on their machine to see if they can dup it? I can step you through how to do it.
21:59 ajr joined #perl6
22:00 [Coke] (er, using the eval server)
22:00 lizmat timotimo: should I be able to run without your last commit ?
22:01 [Coke] starts aborting as of S10-packages/basic.rakudo.jvm
22:02 [Coke] not sure if that particular test file is doing it, or if it's just exhausted. :)
22:04 timotimo hm, the very last one?
22:04 timotimo i think it should work with the commit before this one
22:05 timotimo it *does* seem to hang, wtf?
22:06 FROGGS rm -rf install ?
22:06 lizmat feels like an exception being thrown while throwing the exception
22:06 FROGGS ohh
22:06 lizmat e.g. because it can't find the exception ?
22:07 lizmat timotimo: trying again without the last commit
22:13 lizmat timotimo: tests ok without the last commit
22:15 timotimo weeeeird
22:15 timotimo i'll review it over and over
22:16 lizmat timotimo: in the first else, you're referring to %ex, but if that nqp::gethllsym failed, that wouldn't work, no?
22:16 timotimo that's why i nqp::isnull it
22:17 lizmat but if it *is* nwp::isnull, how can you refer to it in the else ?
22:17 lizmat $error[0] := nqp::atkey(%ex, 'X::TypeCheck::Binding...
22:17 timotimo er
22:17 timotimo i think i forgot to ! it :)
22:17 jnthn That's !good...
22:17 timotimo er
22:17 timotimo no, if it's not nqp::isnull, the else will fire
22:18 lizmat hmmm... guess I read it wrong  :-)
22:19 timotimo am i infinilooping by causing the binder to fail when it's trying to report a bind fail?
22:20 lizmat feels like something like that
22:20 lizmat been through many of those while working on the setting
22:20 Rotwang joined #perl6
22:23 lizmat looking at the diff, it can only be the "$error[0] := nqp::atkey(%ex, 'X::TypeCheck::Binding"
22:23 lizmat or the "@error[0].throw();"
22:24 lizmat since the other code paths are basically the old situation
22:25 lizmat could nqp::isstr be false when it really is a string?
22:25 lizmat so that it tries to throw a string ?
22:25 * lizmat goes back to writing slides
22:27 lizmat fwiw: in spectestiing, it seems to hang on:
22:27 lizmat ok( ?((1 | 3) < 3), '(...) < 3 no parsefail');
22:28 * lizmat goes really back to writing slides
22:31 REPLeffect joined #perl6
22:34 lizmat timotimo: seems that $error[0] := nqp::atkey(%ex, 'X::TypeCheck::Binding')($oval.WHAT, $nom_type.WHAT, $varname); is throwing an exception
22:35 jnthn lizmat: On...JVM?
22:35 lizmat no, on Moar
22:35 jnthn Ah, OK
22:35 jnthn Carry on :)
22:35 jnthn (The NQP-implemented binder ain't used on JVM...)
22:38 masak 'night, #perl6
22:39 lizmat night masak
22:43 lizmat timotimo: feels to me it is in the use of .WHAT
22:45 timotimo huh, something like "can only call .WHAT on a sixmodelobject? except this is moarvm where it should work :)
22:46 lizmat changing it to: $error[0] := nqp::atkey(%ex, 'X::TypeCheck::Binding')($oval.HOW.name($oval), $nom_type.HOW.name($nom_type), $varname);
22:46 lizmat makes it not hang anymore, but bomb out the test with:
22:46 lizmat Type check failed in binding $a; expected 'Str' but got 'Str'
22:46 lizmat in sub infix:<<> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4129
22:46 colomon joined #perl6
22:51 lizmat which is: proto infix:«<»($a?, $b?) is pure   { * }
22:51 lizmat so that explains the $a
22:54 * lizmat stops with debugging and slide writing and calls it a day
22:56 lizmat gnight, #perl6!
22:59 lizmat timotimo: final thought for the day: could it be that the throwing now also breaks out of any other exception catching?
23:00 lizmat I couldn't otherwise explain the failure in t/spec/S02-literals/listquote.t, test #6
23:00 lizmat sleep&
23:02 grondilu joined #perl6
23:02 grondilu r: say sqrt sqrt abs cos pi/2   # was expecting zero
23:02 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«8.84596494520137e-05␤»
23:02 camelia ..rakudo-jvm ffa572: OUTPUT«8.845964945201365E-5␤»
23:02 skids joined #perl6
23:04 grondilu (well I guess that would be asking a lot numerically)
23:08 * grondilu defines a half_pi role and make a multi case return zero in that case.
23:10 grondilu r: role half_pi {}; multi r(half_pi) { 0 }; multi r(t) { sqrt sqrt abs cos t }; say r($_) for 0, pi/4, pi/2 but half_pi
23:11 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile�Invalid typename 't' in parameter declaration.�at /tmp/tmpfile:1�------> [32mpi {}; multi r(half_pi) { 0 }; multi r(t[33m�[31m) { sqrt sqr…»
23:11 grondilu r: role half_pi {}; multi r(half_pi) { 0 }; multi r(\t) { sqrt sqrt abs cos t }; say r($_) for 0, pi/4, pi/2 but half_pi
23:11 camelia rakudo-parrot ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«1␤0.917004043204671␤0␤»
23:11 camelia ..rakudo-jvm ffa572: OUTPUT«1␤0.9170040432046712␤0␤»
23:15 grondilu I wonder if it would not be opportunate to define a pi role so that cos(pi) and similar return exact values.
23:20 hoverboard joined #perl6
23:20 TimToady seems more like a units type
23:20 yoleaux 23 Mar 2014 19:16Z <Mouq> TimToady: Should :q be able to escape its starter? This is the same as asking if, e.g. "< \< >" should produce "<" or "\<", considering that "< < >" is a syntax error
23:20 yoleaux 23 Mar 2014 19:42Z <Mouq> TimToady: And is "In addition, the double angles allow for comments beginning with #. These comments work exactly like ordinary comments in Perl code" still valid and just NYI?
23:22 TimToady .tell Mouq yeah, should probably allow :q to \ an opener, and if double angles allow #, it's more because that's how shells work than how Perl works :)
23:22 yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to Mouq.
23:37 kivutar joined #perl6
23:57 skids joined #perl6
23:58 skids r: role A { }; role B does A { }; class C does B { }; C.^roles.say; C.^roles(:all).say;
23:58 camelia rakudo-jvm ffa572, rakudo-moar ffa572: OUTPUT«(B)␤(B)␤»
23:58 camelia ..rakudo-parrot ffa572: OUTPUT«(B)␤too many named arguments: 1 passed, 0 used␤  in any roles at gen/parrot/Metamodel.nqp:2585␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo