Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-03-26

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:02 retupmoca If I want to connect to mysql, should I be using MiniDBI or DBIish?
01:06 retupmoca looks like DBIish
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01:26 dalek DBIish: 054bf43 | (Andrew Egeler)++ | lib/DBDish/mysql.pm6:
01:26 dalek DBIish: Fix compile (for moarvm at least)
01:26 dalek DBIish:
01:26 dalek DBIish: Rakudo on MoarVM was refusing to compile CArray[Int], as Int isn't a
01:26 dalek DBIish: native type.
01:26 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/054bf4371a
01:26 dalek DBIish: c9c012d | (Andrew Egeler)++ | lib/DBDish/mysql.pm6:
01:27 dalek DBIish: Merge pull request #2 from retupmoca/master
01:27 dalek DBIish:
01:27 dalek DBIish: Fix compile (for moarvm at least)
01:27 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/c9c012d0d9
01:27 retupmoca ^-- forgot I had commitbit >.>
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06:06 * simula67 is still hunting the bailador problem which now seem to be in HTTP::Easy http://postimg.org/image/gngfi80bj/full/
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06:10 FROGGS hi from a train!
06:10 FROGGS retupmoca++
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06:25 simula67 Is that a rakudo bug ? It treats "\r\n" as line terminator when I said use "\r\n\r\n". No special case seems to be mentioned here : https://github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/S32-setting-library/IO.pod#input-line-separator
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08:23 sergot morning #perl6 :)
08:25 moritz \o sergot, *
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08:47 moritz j: say 42
08:47 camelia rakudo-jvm 15ece8: OUTPUT«42␤»
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08:56 lizmat_ good *, #perl6, from the German Perl Workshop in Hanover
08:57 moritz \o lizmat_
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09:13 lizmat FROGGS has arrived   :-)
09:19 nwc10 with a /16 network.
09:26 corecatcher good morning
09:32 lizmat joined #perl6
09:33 corecatcher with a very stable network
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09:52 nwc10 sometimes stable :-/
09:55 dalek zavolaj: 7489ec0 | (Andrew Egeler)++ | / (2 files):
09:55 dalek zavolaj: Fix library extension guessing for MoarVM
09:55 dalek zavolaj:
09:55 dalek zavolaj: Without this patch, is native('libfoo') would try and load libfoolib.so
09:55 dalek zavolaj: instead of libfoo.so
09:55 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/7489ec0374
09:55 dalek zavolaj: 7f7c849 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
09:55 dalek zavolaj: Merge pull request #32 from retupmoca/master
09:55 dalek zavolaj:
09:55 dalek zavolaj: Fix library extension guessing for MoarVM
09:55 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/7f7c84988c
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12:43 FROGGS timotimo: ping
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13:03 [Coke] bah. I didn't get back to checking the late java run, so the new run started already, which means we'll miss a day. ah well.
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13:03 lizmat poep happens
13:04 [Coke] ja
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13:19 FROGGS TimToady: you can haz tickets: https://github.com/perl6/std/issues/7 :P
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13:24 FROGGS Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
13:24 FROGGS 0x00007ffff588a96b in p6listitems (tc=0x603500) at src/vm/moar/ops/perl6_ops.c:284
13:24 FROGGS 284        if (!items || !IS_CONCRETE(items) || REPR(items)->ID != MVM_REPR_ID_MVMArray) {
13:25 FROGGS bt full at: https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/fa6338946ce510420d3a
13:26 * jnthn gets curious with v5 is using p6listitems...
13:26 jnthn *why
13:26 FROGGS (gdb) p *items
13:26 FROGGS $3 = {header = {owner = 0, flags = 0, size = 0, sc_forward_u = {forwarder = 0x0, sc = 0x0, st = 0x0}}, st = 0x0}
13:26 FROGGS I dunno
13:27 FROGGS let me check
13:27 jnthn Hm, curious error
13:28 jnthn I wonder if it's trying to de-ref the null sentinel or something...but that shoudln't have flags = 0.
13:28 FROGGS seems to happen in P5each: https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/blob/master/lib/Perl5/Terms.pm#L388
13:29 * lizmat wonders what this means:
13:29 lizmat r: say (More | Less).list.pick
13:29 camelia rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«any(Less, More)␤»
13:29 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 15ece8: OUTPUT«any(Less, Less)␤»
13:29 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 15ece8: OUTPUT«any(Same, Less)␤»
13:29 lizmat r: say (More | Less).list.pick
13:30 camelia rakudo-jvm 15ece8: OUTPUT«any(Less, More)␤»
13:30 camelia ..rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«any(More, Same)␤»
13:30 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 15ece8: OUTPUT«any(Less, Same)␤»
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13:30 FROGGS Same?
13:30 jnthn lizmat: It auto-threads the method call I imagine.
13:30 FROGGS r: say Less
13:30 jnthn lizmat: So calls .pick on each item in the Junction.
13:30 camelia rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-jvm 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Less␤»
13:31 jnthn r: say More.pick;
13:31 camelia rakudo-jvm 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Same␤»
13:31 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 15ece8: OUTPUT«More␤»
13:31 lizmat aha
13:31 FROGGS ahh
13:31 FROGGS weird
13:31 jnthn And pick on an enum type picks one of the enum
13:31 lizmat I didn't know that
13:31 jnthn And since the method is defined ont he type object, it applies to the elements too.
13:31 FROGGS m: say True.pick
13:31 camelia rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Invocant requires a type object, but an object instance was passed␤  in method pick at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3793␤  in block  at /tmp/I_9IQaO_JJ:1␤␤»
13:32 jnthn r: enum Options < Fast Cheap Good >; say Options.pick(2)
13:32 camelia rakudo-jvm 15ece8: OUTPUT«Good Cheap␤»
13:32 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Cheap Good␤»
13:32 FROGGS r: enum Options < Fast Cheap Good >; say Fast.pick(2)
13:32 jnthn ...well yeah, noen of them are fast :P
13:32 camelia rakudo-parrot 15ece8: OUTPUT«Fast Cheap␤»
13:32 camelia ..rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Good Cheap␤»
13:32 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 15ece8: OUTPUT«Good Fast␤»
13:32 jnthn lol
13:32 FROGGS that is a weird behaviour
13:33 jnthn Well, methods - unless you do something special - exist on a type and its instances
13:33 jnthn And enum elemnets are simply instances of the enumeration type.
13:33 FROGGS yeah...
13:33 jnthn If we want to spec soemthing different we can...it just means making pick in Enumeration be a multi that does something different on the instances than one the type object.
13:33 FROGGS r: enum Options < Fast Cheap Good >; say Fast ~~ Cheap
13:34 camelia rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-jvm 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:34 jnthn ACCEPTS is already doing that. :)
13:34 FROGGS which is *very* good :o)
13:34 jnthn I don't mind if pick ends up that way too, though I'm curious...
13:35 jnthn r: say List.pick
13:35 camelia rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-jvm 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:35 lizmat r: enum Options < Fast Cheap Good >; say Options.pick(2)  # this I understand
13:35 jnthn Hm :)
13:35 camelia rakudo-jvm 15ece8: OUTPUT«Fast Cheap␤»
13:35 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 15ece8: OUTPUT«Good Cheap␤»
13:35 camelia ..rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Fast Good␤»
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13:35 lizmat r: enum Options < Fast Cheap Good >; say Fast.pick  # this I don't
13:35 camelia rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Good␤»
13:35 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-jvm 15ece8: OUTPUT«Cheap␤»
13:35 jnthn lizmat: I think you do understand.
13:35 lizmat it feels wrong
13:35 jnthn r: class Foo { method m() { say self } }; Foo.m; Foo.new.m; # it's exactly this.
13:35 lizmat I see an enum as an item
13:36 camelia rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-jvm 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«(Foo)␤Foo.new()␤»
13:37 lizmat and a .pick on an item, would always return the item
13:37 lizmat hmmm....
13:37 jnthn lizmat: As I said, we can decalre pick on enums as a multi and make that happen.
13:37 lizmat I see how this can be done
13:38 jnthn lizmat: But then you force folks who do the current behavior to have to write Fast.WHAT.pick
13:38 lizmat I'm trying to see if / why TimToady  would like to see the current behaviour
13:38 jnthn lizmat: Which of course looks silly when you've a literal, but maybe less so if you'd the thing in a variable.
13:38 jnthn lizmat: I don't feel strongly anyway. Just explaining why it behaves the way it does today.
13:39 lizmat gotcha
13:39 jnthn r: 4.pick.say
13:39 camelia rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-jvm 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«4␤»
13:39 jnthn r: 4.pick(2).say
13:39 camelia rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-jvm 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«4␤»
13:39 jnthn r: 4.roll(2).say
13:39 camelia rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-jvm 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«4 4␤»
13:39 jnthn There's an expensive way to say 4 xx 2 :)
13:40 jnthn Anyway, yeah, I can see what you're arguing for. I think it's reasonable.
13:40 jnthn r: List.pick(2).say
13:40 camelia rakudo-parrot 15ece8, rakudo-jvm 15ece8, rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
13:40 jnthn r: List.roll(2).say
13:40 camelia rakudo-jvm 15ece8: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method roll at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:7956␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:40 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 15ece8: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method roll at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:7976␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:40 camelia ..rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method roll at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:8013␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
13:40 FROGGS /o\
13:41 jnthn Might want to see what sematnics we want out of those two along the way. :)
13:41 lizmat indeed
13:41 jnthn There's a weird thing going on there
13:41 lizmat yup
13:42 jnthn With non-Enum types we'd like to see the type object as an item and instances a list of things to pick from
13:42 jnthn With Enum types we'd like to see the type object as having a source of things to pick from and an instance being a 1-item list :)
13:43 jnthn If masak was here he might say something category-theoretic at this point :P
13:43 lizmat hehe
13:43 lizmat but yes, that makes sense to *me*
13:44 jnthn Yeah, it's a DWIM, just not sure if we're missing a lurking WAT :)
13:46 FROGGS jnthn: btw, "REPR(items)->ID" explodes
13:46 jnthn It's gonna if all the stuff in there is le null...
13:47 FROGGS jnthn: some of 'em are zeros :o)
13:49 FROGGS jnthn: so we want to check if STABLE(items) is trueish before trying to accessing REPR?
13:50 jnthn FROGGS: No, that's hiding the problem.
13:50 FROGGS hmmm, I was fearing that
13:50 jnthn FROGGS: I thought it might be that you were hitting the ass_null in P6opaque.
13:50 jnthn Alas...
13:50 jnthn ass_null->header.flags = MVM_CF_TYPE_OBJECT;
13:51 jnthn So IS_CONCRETE should should come out true.
13:51 FROGGS ahh
13:51 jnthn And you should never end up looking into REPR(items)
13:51 FROGGS p IS_CONCRETE(items)
13:51 FROGGS $5 = 1
13:51 FROGGS O.o
13:51 jnthn Right, so I doubt it's that.
13:52 jnthn Well, objects are born with their flags 0.
13:52 FROGGS ahh well, it checks for !IS_CONCRETE(items)
13:52 jnthn It's the cheapest thing.
13:52 FROGGS yeah
13:52 jnthn For the commonest case.
13:52 jnthn Anyway, ugh.
13:53 jnthn d2
13:53 jnthn uh, ww
13:54 FROGGS hehe, jnthn is playing chess while debugging rakudo and supporting liz
13:54 * lizmat hugs jnthn, good vi(m) user
13:54 jnthn Both wrong :P
13:54 jnthn "d2" means "compile and show the slides for day 2 of the course I'm currently working on" :)
13:55 FROGGS aha
13:55 FROGGS weird anyway :o)
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14:05 timotimo meeeeeeeh, i overslept to the max
14:06 jnthn Does that mean you didn't manage to get on a train, or slept through getting off one?
14:06 timotimo i'm feeling very groggy ~_~
14:06 tadzik happy timo
14:06 timotimo i didn't manage to get on a train, or out of bed at all
14:11 thou joined #perl6
14:13 timotimo okay, might as well skip gpw ~_~
14:13 timotimo i'll be with you in spirit
14:13 tadzik aww
14:13 tadzik that kind of overslept :(
14:14 FROGGS timotimo: wth?
14:14 FROGGS timotimo: well, my talk got recorded :o)
14:14 FROGGS talks*
14:14 timotimo yay \o/
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14:24 * lizmat was looking forward to finally settle the debt she has to timotimo
14:24 lizmat :-(
14:24 timotimo i feel a bit dumb now
14:25 lizmat don't, when you sleep this late, you need it
14:26 lizmat (been there, do it regularly :-)
14:26 FROGGS jnthn: it is some sort of heisenbug... when I strip comments, the segfaults goes away
14:26 timotimo i wish i would at least feel somewhat refreshed >_>
14:26 FROGGS segfault*
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14:31 retupmoca DBIish on moarvm goes from passing tests to failing tests when I precompile DBDish.pm6
14:31 jnap joined #perl6
14:32 retupmoca which is interesting, since that file only contains a couple of roles
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14:39 jnthn I thought I fix the roles pre-comp thing already :/
14:39 jnthn *fixed
14:40 jnthn And as usual with pre-comp, nobody seems to want to learn how stuff works there, so they all bottleneck on me fixing them :/
14:40 timotimo where exactly does one have to look at to figure out what could be wrong?
14:40 jnthn timotimo: Typically, it's just a lot of golfing.
14:41 jnthn timotimo: Most golfed pre-comp things I get actually go further...
14:41 jnthn timotimo: At that point it's then either some SC write barrier issue, or some fixup related issue.
14:42 timotimo i forget what exactly SC write barriers are for again
14:42 jnthn Well, augment is the easiest construct to consider
14:42 FROGGS jnthn: I know about an URI precomp bug you fixed
14:42 moritz jnthn: maybe you'll have to do a "hunt down precomp bugs" online workshop. I'll certainly attend :-)
14:42 retupmoca FWIW, my nativecall precomp issue seems to be related to roles in some way: https://gist.github.com/retupmoca/9744166
14:42 jnthn FROGGS: I fixed a nativecall related one too.
14:42 timotimo ah, SC WB's are about repossession?
14:42 jnthn timotimo: Exactly
14:42 jnthn timotimo: Hitting the WB is the trigger for it.
14:43 timotimo what is the nature of such a WB?
14:44 jnthn They're placed in various ops that write
14:44 timotimo i mean, what objects does the "call" operate on, where is the information stored?
14:44 jnthn And check if obj->header.sc is set, and if so know you're writing to an SC-owned object
14:45 jnthn This then goes and looks a bit further and checks it the currently compiling SC is the one owning the object (in which case, we're fine) or not (in which case, repossession)
14:45 jnthn The code in Moar do to it is quite well commented.
14:45 jnthn But I dunno if that's the issue in this case.
14:47 jnthn (as in, not all pre-comp issues are SC-barrier related)
14:48 timotimo OK
14:48 timotimo is there a macro or function that does everything necessary?
14:50 jnthn MVM_SC_WB_OBJ and MVM_SC_WB_ST
14:51 timotimo ah, one for STables, one for Objects
14:51 timotimo seems easy enough
14:51 timotimo most of these seem to be placed in the interp.c, that seems like a good choice
14:52 jnthn The other piece of the puzzle is to understand the various things going on in HLL::World and thus Perl6::World with regard to building up SCs.
14:52 jnthn And also post-deserialize fixup actions
14:53 timotimo that's mostly declarations of classes and subs that are to end up in serialized storage (constants, too, right?) and things that modify existing objects, like mixins, subclassing(?)?
14:53 jnthn Sorta..
14:54 jnthn It's the way objects get added into SCs, at lesat.
14:57 * corecatcher slaps timotimo
14:59 timotimo :[
14:59 corecatcher you abandonded us?
14:59 corecatcher :D
14:59 timotimo not entirely by choice :|
15:02 timotimo corecatcher: i'll be there for you on IM/IRC, though
15:03 timotimo yesterday i talked a bit with the creator of Nimrod
15:03 timotimo Araq, he's been on this very channel a few times in the past
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15:09 jnthn meeting &
15:10 vendethiel timotimo: Nimrod looks cool !
15:10 vendethiel it uses a bit too much blocks (and it's still pretty buggy) but I'm definitely looking at it, too
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16:27 timotimo hmm. maybe the output of viv would be a good source of info for an IDE code model thingie
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16:30 FROGGS lizmat_: please tell wendy that my forks and me are working now in a cheap cafe
16:30 FROGGS so we won't be around later
16:30 kurahaupo_mobile joined #perl6
16:31 tadzik my forks
16:31 tadzik this has so many meanings
16:32 tadzik folks, repo forks, actual eating forks
16:33 timotimo does the STD.pm CORE.setting need lots and lots of updates? or has it been kept up to date recently?
16:34 FROGGS tadzik: they are actual eating forks atm
16:34 tadzik :)
16:35 nwc10 and there was me thinking it was FROGGS TNG
16:37 FROGGS *g*
16:37 FROGGS well, only the bigger one is TNG
16:38 lizmat_ FROGGS: will do
16:38 FROGGS nwc10: you'll see #3 when it is 2 weeks old in sofia :o)
16:38 nwc10 in the flesh? (that imlpies efficient passport issuance)
16:39 FROGGS in the what?
16:39 FROGGS well, the plan is to ome with wife and all kids
16:39 FROGGS come*
16:40 timotimo FROGGS: will there be FROGGS JJ-Abrahms re-imagining with lots of lensflares?
16:40 tadzik nooo
16:40 tadzik Jar-Jar Abrams
16:40 FROGGS timotimo: no, there is only one lensflare :o)
16:40 timotimo :D
16:45 * moritz comes with lenzflares
16:46 timotimo :D
16:46 FROGGS moritz: would be nice to finally meet you :o)
16:47 moritz FROGGS: aye. If you're ever in the Nürnberg area, just drop by :-)
16:47 colomon joined #perl6
16:47 timotimo FROGGS: if you come to the nürnberg area, notify me, too. maybe i'll find an opportunity to come by, too
16:47 FROGGS moritz: unlikely, but I will tell you then :o)
16:48 timotimo nürnberg is so much closer to karlsruhe than hannover is ... :|
16:49 moritz google maps say 2.5h between Nürnberg and Karlsruhe
16:50 moritz and a around 4h by train
16:51 * moritz still wants to do a German p6 mini hackathon eventually
16:52 timotimo huh. there seems to be no good direct connection from Ka to Nrmbrg
16:52 timotimo still, it's about 2h less than to hannover
16:52 timotimo (and also much cheaper)
16:54 nwc10 Nürnberg is about 5 hours on the train from Vienna
16:54 nwc10 or shoult that sentance be Nürnberg,Wien or Nuremberg/Vienna? :-)
16:55 timotimo :)
16:55 moritz nwc10: "yes" :-)
16:56 moritz Nürnberg,Wien or Nuremberg,Vienna
16:56 nwc10 I can't spell.
16:56 timotimo i cant sell
16:56 tadzik Norymberga, Wiedeń. Easy
16:59 nwc10 I still like the obfuscation the Hungarians use: http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9cs
17:00 moritz yes, that's impressive
17:02 huf is it an obfuscation of vienna?
17:02 huf also serbians/croatians seem to use be'cs of some form :)
17:07 lizmat moritz: re P6 hackathon, woolfy and I are considering organising a hackathon after the YAPC::EU, or otherwise in July
17:07 moritz lizmat: \o/
17:08 timotimo how hard would it be to teach STD to output XML instead of YAML?
17:08 lizmat signing off for this evenings social
17:08 moritz I'm just afraid I'm not as willing to travel with small kids as others here
17:08 lizmat will check backlog later
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17:40 FROGGS timotimo: how does STD output YAML?
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17:40 timotimo -y
17:40 timotimo oh, you probably mean "using what lib%
17:41 timotimo YAML::XS apparently
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17:44 FROGGS timotimo: no, I meant the -y
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18:20 moritz timotimo: iirc the problem is that STD doesn't output a tree, but an acyclic graph, and XML has no standard serialization for that
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18:54 Araq timotimo: just fyi I got the train
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19:19 [Coke] quiet on here today.
19:21 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 6da38fa | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
19:21 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
19:21 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/6da38fa02b
19:21 dalek perl6-roast-data: 9fde962 | coke++ | / (4 files):
19:21 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:21 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/9fde962ec1
19:27 [Coke] only rakudo.parrot has a clean test run.
19:27 [Coke] moar's at the state where we can fudge things and open RTs for them.
19:27 [Coke] (ditto JVM)
19:45 vendethiel mmh ?
19:45 vendethiel [Coke]: what's RT ?
19:52 btyler joined #perl6
19:53 [Coke] http://rt.perl.org/ - rakudo's bug tracker.
19:53 [Coke] "Request Tracker"
19:53 [Coke] to open a ticket, email rakudobug@perl.org
20:02 timotimo Araq: how could you possibly have caught that train?
20:02 timotimo was it massively late? :)
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20:21 raiph FROGGS, lizmat: http://blog.versioneye.com/2014/01/15/which-programming-language-has-the-best-package-manager/ # nice 2014 roundup
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20:24 vendethiel the only time it's signed, it's actually typo-ed "singed" haha
20:27 zeleiadi joined #perl6
20:29 vendethiel but it's definitely an interesting point - no scripting language manager has signed packages
20:30 timotimo i think it would be nice if we could have that, for example based on git tags
20:30 timotimo they are cryptographically nice
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20:47 * moritz thought he saw PGP/gpg signatures for distributions on CPAN
20:50 Araq timotimo: turns out I can't read my hand writing and the train left at 22:07 instead of 22:04 :-)
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20:55 jnthn evening o/
20:56 moritz Araq: better than the other way round :-)
20:56 moritz \o jnthn, *
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21:24 timotimo sounds good!
21:24 timotimo Araq: btw, i didn't have time to tell you about it yesterday, but i think i can clear up some of your confusion WRT sigils
21:25 Araq go ahead
21:25 timotimo i may be interrupted by Zero-K in a few minutes again ;)
21:25 timotimo the sigils are mostly about "interface"
21:25 timotimo there's also a big difference between "scalar context" in p5 and p6
21:26 timotimo my $foo = @my_list;  # this no longer gives you the number of elements in @my_list. instead, it gives you a "reference" to the list that will not flatten by default
21:26 PerlJam I know ... I'm always trying to use +@foo in P5 these days.
21:26 timotimo the "item context" thing that you get with $ is quite nice, because it means that if the programmer sees "for $foo, $bar { ... }" they will know it's exactly two iterations
21:26 PerlJam :)
21:27 timotimo and with an @, you can get things that'll flatten out in iterations and such
21:27 treehug88 joined #perl6
21:27 timotimo new game's about to start
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21:29 Araq tbh these arguments about how the programmer "easily sees" things in a dynamic language never make any sense to me
21:29 timotimo :D
21:29 Araq it's also often completely arbitrary "oh look, I can see I passed an output parameter at callsite. sweet!"
21:30 Araq I just move the mouse over the function call to get all the information I need ...
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22:15 [Coke] m: say (26+10)*6
22:15 camelia rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«216␤»
22:15 [Coke] m: say (26+10)**6
22:15 camelia rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«2176782336␤»
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23:03 segomos m: say (26*10)**6 * (26*10)*6;
23:03 camelia rakudo-moar 15ece8: OUTPUT«481908610560000000␤»
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