Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-04-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:01 lue In any case, the only useful place I've seen so far is substr, where you could supply a StrLen for length or a StrPos for endpoint. But that doesn't help the integer cases of substr (you can have Int length but not Int endpoint), and (I hope) :end and :length work better anyway :)
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00:17 lue o_o how old is S32::Str ‽ → " multi trans(List of Pair %data --> Any );"
00:17 lue "List of Pair", a.k.a. "Hash", no?
00:18 colomon they're two different things
00:19 lue well yeah, but why not just call it Hash? (esp. with the % there). Doesn't that mean Hash[Str, List[Pair]] anyway?
00:19 lue r: my List of Pair %h; say %h.WHAT;
00:19 camelia rakudo-parrot e9b185, rakudo-jvm e9b185, rakudo-moar e9b185: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Type List cannot accept type arguments␤»
00:20 lue r: my Array of Pair %h; say %h.WHAT;
00:20 camelia rakudo-parrot e9b185, rakudo-jvm e9b185, rakudo-moar e9b185: OUTPUT«(Hash[Array[Pair]])␤»
00:30 retupmoca re: building native libraries with panda: would something like this for generating Makefiles be a good idea? https://github.com/retupmoca/P6-LibraryMake/blob/master/lib/LibraryMake.pm6
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01:46 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:48 btyler is there a general preference for `my Str $foo = 'abc'` vs `my $foo of Str = 'abc'?`
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07:16 moritz http://www.minnowboard.org/meet-minnowboard-max/ looks like the 2GB variant would be a nice, low-cost machine for smoking rakudo :-)
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07:38 FROGGS_ @all, please test: http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.03.tar.gz <-- rakudo@parrot star release candidate
07:39 FROGGS_ btyler: I prefer the former, because it is shorter and other languages I work with do it this way too
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07:58 dalek star: 499084f | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
07:58 dalek star: remove note about MIME::Base64, add one about LWP::Simple
07:58 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/499084f120
07:58 dalek star: dca1065 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
07:58 dalek star: remove perl6-debug, it is included in rakudo now
07:58 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/dca106504d
07:59 dalek star: f307717 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
07:59 dalek star: bump versions
07:59 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/f307717af9
08:00 dalek star: ce9dfba | (Tobias Leich)++ | docs/announce/2014.03.md:
08:00 dalek star: add announcement for 2014.03
08:00 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/ce9dfba89c
08:01 moritz FROGGS_: star RC built fine, including modules
08:01 moritz now running module-test
08:02 dalek star: 048af2b | (Tobias Leich)++ | modules/ (12 files):
08:02 dalek star: bump submodules to latest versions
08:02 dalek star:
08:02 dalek star: Except perl6-lwp-simple, we switch to a patched fork here.
08:02 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/048af2bba4
08:02 FROGGS_ moritz++ # thank you! :o)
08:03 FROGGS_ moritz: would be more than awesome if you could proof read the announcement
08:03 moritz FROGGS_: will do. And sorry for not merging the lwp-simple pull request earlier, I somehow lost track of it
08:03 moritz I've done it now
08:04 FROGGS_ ahh, no problem
08:04 moritz github++ # making forking easy
08:05 moritz FROGGS_: since there wasn't a star release in Februar, the release announcement for March could contain compilre impreovements from February
08:06 FROGGS_ I did not even know that you have push right to lwp-simple
08:06 FROGGS_ ahh, good point!
08:06 moritz Result: PASS
08:06 FROGGS_ \o/
08:06 * moritz worms his way into most p6 projects :-)
08:06 nwc10 moritz: congratulations on the new project. How is sleep?
08:07 nwc10 "the sleep is a lie"?
08:07 moritz FROGGS_: also, might be worth mentioning that JVM and Moar support for star is being worked on already, and experimental support is expected for the April star release
08:07 moritz nwc10: thanks. Sleep is LTA, but OK (at least for me; $wife and $newborn are still in the hospital, so they don't wake me right now)
08:07 nwc10 it's "close" - is it worth saying that?
08:08 FROGGS_ I changed a paragraph to: While the other backends
08:08 FROGGS_ mostly implement the same features as the Parrot backend, some bits are
08:08 FROGGS_ still missing that lead to module build problems or test failures.
08:08 FROGGS_ We hope to provide a JVM-based and MoarVM-based Rakudo Star releases soon.
08:08 FROGGS_ I add a note about our expectations :o)
08:12 dalek star: 2228882 | (Tobias Leich)++ | docs/announce/2014.03.md:
08:12 dalek star: add changes of 2014.02 and notes about r-m/j* in 2014.04
08:12 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/22288827d0
08:13 dalek star: 8a004b1 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
08:13 dalek star: update release peeps list
08:13 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/8a004b10ae
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08:17 moritz FROGGS_++ # shipt it!
08:17 FROGGS_ shipt?
08:18 moritz ship
08:18 FROGGS_ I am uploading the updated tarball that contains the fixed announcement
08:18 FROGGS_ and I am going to unpack and test again
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08:25 FROGGS_ okay, new release tarball is online at http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.03.tar.gz
08:25 FROGGS_ I just wonder why it is 2MB smaller
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08:35 jnthn FROGGS_: In https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/22288827d0 it looks like you added changes in the wrong place, under the "stuff that's not quite there" heading
08:36 FROGGS_ ohh damn!
08:36 FROGGS_ jnthn++
08:37 dalek star: 6363be3 | (Tobias Leich)++ | docs/announce/2014.03.md:
08:37 dalek star: move changes to correct section, jnthn++
08:37 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/6363be3b24
08:37 nwc10 FROGGS_: if you want it even smaller, see the notes about 7-Zip etc here http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/blob/fc6712109f60b7466ab6426581de645ee93aff93:/Porting/release_managers_guide.pod#l836
08:38 nwc10 FROGGS_: aha, here's a pretty version: https://metacpan.org/pod/release/RJBS/perl-5.18.2/Porting/release_managers_guide.pod#build-the-tarball
08:38 FROGGS_ nwc10: dunno if we want to provide .7z
08:39 FROGGS_ (I don't want to upset packagers by changing that now)
08:39 nwc10 no, point is that the 7z tools make tigher gzip files
08:39 nwc10 tighter
08:39 FROGGS_ aha, okay
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08:40 nwc10 and, rougly, bzip2 isn't worht it any more
08:40 nwc10 .gz and .xz seem to be the two with useful CPU/size trade offs
08:43 brrt why is bzip2 out of favor?
08:43 nwc10 doesn't get much better compression than gzip, but uses quite a bit more CPU
08:43 nwc10 xz gets a lot better compression, for not massively more CPU than bzip2
08:44 nwc10 and on modern hardware, CPU speedups outpace disk access speedups, IIRC
08:44 nwc10 although SSDs might have skewed that since then
08:45 xiaomiao nwc10: xz/lzma is a bit better on decompression, but afair a bit worse on compression than bzip2
08:46 xiaomiao so for compress-once, uncompress-many it wins, but for compress-and-read it doesn't matter much
08:48 nwc10 thanks - I wasn't aware of that detail
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09:32 moritz FROGGS_: your implementation of $*EXECUTABLE is much better than $*EXECUTABLE_NAME, but it's still dangerous
09:33 moritz FROGGS_: it always points to the installed perl6-{m,j}, but usually you spectest *before* installing
09:33 FROGGS_ moritz: I'd love to check for the running process, but I don't know how
09:33 moritz FROGGS_: and the spectests happen to be one of the major users of $*EXECUTABLE_NAME, so probably $*EXECUTABLE soon
09:34 moritz :(
09:34 FROGGS_ spectests and panda, yes
09:34 FROGGS_ both very important bits
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09:38 moritz pandaspec
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09:49 lizmat for some reason, make t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t started failing for me today
09:49 lizmat am I the only one seeing that ?
09:50 jnthn lizmat: Backend?
09:50 jnthn lizmat: It was busted on r-m for a bit; HEAD r-m resolves it.
09:50 lizmat moar
09:50 lizmat will check
09:51 jnthn I hastily did some locking stuff on I/O to get sleep sort in shape for you
09:51 jnthn And unfortunately reacquired a mutex, which is a no-no with pthreads.
09:51 jnthn The whole patch has been re-done now to something more robust/complete. :)
09:53 lizmat cool
09:53 lizmat if that works, should I bump versions again?
09:54 jnthn Feel free :)
09:58 lizmat hmmm... still seeing error
09:58 lizmat s
09:59 lizmat could it be that a failed test leaves behind cruft that will make next tests fail?
09:59 jnthn maybe; I know there's a flag file
09:59 lizmat thinking about servers hanging on a port that the test uses
09:59 jnthn Also, I know there were new tests in that file of late...
10:00 jnthn ..so may be worth checking it's not a new, shoulda-been-fudged one.
10:00 jnthn lizmat: BTW, how was the talk? :)
10:00 lizmat hmmm... it seems that I have 3 moar processes running each eating 100% CPU
10:00 lizmat better killl them first
10:01 jnthn om nom nom
10:02 lizmat killed, no change in tests  :-(
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10:06 lizmat also, without FROGGS_++ last commit, it also fails
10:06 lizmat for the record: moar on darwin
10:07 lizmat the presentation went fine (for a first real appearance), only a little over time
10:08 lizmat title: "How the camel is de-cocooning:
10:08 jnthn Yes, I liked teh title. :)
10:08 jnthn Look forward to seeing it in a few weeks time :)
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10:09 lizmat # [0s] Testing on port 1024
10:09 lizmat not ok 1 - [2s] echo server and client
10:09 lizmat #      got: 'echo ''Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
10:09 lizmat # Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
10:09 lizmat # All mimsy were the borogoves,
10:09 lizmat # And the mome raths outgrabe.O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' received
10:09 lizmat # '
10:09 lizmat # expected: 'echo '0123456789abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz' received
10:09 lizmat huh?  why am I getting Lewis Carroll on the horn here ?
10:11 lizmat hmmm.. I still have something running on port 1024?
10:13 lizmat it appaars I had at least 5 more moar processes running, one of them on port 1024
10:13 jnthn oh!
10:13 masak one of them channeling Lewis Carroll... :)
10:14 lizmat tests all ok now after killing all those moars
10:14 jnthn phew!
10:14 lizmat running full spectest now to see if that leaves behind any moar processes
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10:19 lizmat aha, Ctrl-Cing out of t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t leaves a moar behind
10:19 lizmat I guess we cannot catch that yet, right?
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10:20 lizmat anyway, once you've done that, t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t starts to fail
10:21 lizmat and continues to fail until you killed all the moars
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10:25 lizmat feels to me that t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.pl should have some sort of expiration feature on the server side
10:25 lizmat don't have time for that now...  going to see some sights&
10:25 FROGGS_ lizmat: have fun!
10:26 jnthn Enjoy :)
10:27 FROGGS_ sometimes I *hate* windows
10:28 FROGGS_ how can it be that windows reboots because of an update and you can only click "later" to interrupt? and then it reboots while you are fetching some lunch
10:28 FROGGS_ nice that this happens while I prepare a star msi relase ò.ó
10:28 FROGGS_ release*
10:29 FROGGS_ that is win xp, mind
10:29 jnthn There are ways to disable that stuff.
10:29 FROGGS_ and I hope win7+ does not try to be smarter than me
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10:46 Ven FROGGS_: win 7+ tries even harder to be smarter than you.
10:47 FROGGS_ :/
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11:01 arnsholt o/
11:01 FROGGS_ hi araujo
11:01 FROGGS_ err
11:01 FROGGS_ hi arnsholt
11:01 colomon \o
11:01 FROGGS_ o/
11:03 simula67 lizmat: or this : https://www.dnorth.net/2012/03/17/the-port-0-trick/
11:05 FROGGS_ that is very nice indeed!
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11:08 simula67 but that will leave the server processes as zombies
11:10 dalek nqp/O-refactor: 7e96389 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/ (2 files):
11:10 dalek nqp/O-refactor: Refactor how the <O()> rule works.
11:10 dalek nqp/O-refactor:
11:10 dalek nqp/O-refactor: Things brings us closer in line with how STD does things, and does away with
11:10 dalek nqp/O-refactor: the rule taking a string of colonpairs that we then dissect into the
11:10 dalek nqp/O-refactor: precedence information.
11:10 dalek nqp/O-refactor: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/7e96389f4c
11:10 arnsholt jnthn: Leaving the O refactor in a branch for now. I get some terribly weird errors compiling the setting with Rakudo when I try to update that
11:11 FROGGS_ arnsholt: is there also a rakudo branch?
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11:13 arnsholt Not yet
11:13 arnsholt I guess I could commit what I have so far, but it doesn't actually compile, though =
11:13 arnsholt s/=/=)
11:13 FROGGS_ but you replaced rakudo's init block in the grammar too?
11:15 census hi masak -- you around?
11:15 arnsholt Yeah, I've made the same kind of changes in Rakudo
11:16 arnsholt But Rakudo has some more complicated things going on (related to user-defined operators, I think), which is where the breakage happens (AFAICT)
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11:18 FROGGS_ ahh, I see
11:19 arnsholt The actual error I get is "Cannot assign to non-container", which is... weird
11:20 FROGGS_ not too weird when you mix nqp and rakudo
11:21 arnsholt True, true
11:21 masak census: sort of. is it #perl6-related?
11:22 census masak -- no, quick latex question i wanted to run by you, if that's ok
11:26 masak census: kind of a little busy right now. maybe try on #latex or #help-census?
11:26 masak kthx
11:28 FROGGS_ moritz: can you please upload http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.03.tar.gz and http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.03.msi ?
11:28 FROGGS_ moritz: please download both afresh because I updated the tar.gz also
11:31 census thanks masak.  yes i'm in the help-census room
11:31 census no worries about it
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12:24 [Coke] there was still a hang in the JVM.
12:25 [Coke] yesterday's run now lost as well, today's run compromised from the old running process.
12:25 FROGGS_ [Coke]: are you able to upload stuff to http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/?
12:27 jnthn [Coke]: Well, it wasn't fixed until last night, so yesterdays was probably before the fix.
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12:32 [Coke] jnthn: I had re-started a run yesterday after the fix.
12:32 [Coke] (a full run, not just the JVM stuff, so it re-fetched git, etc.)
12:32 [Coke] so I suspect there is still a hang.
12:32 jnthn [Coke]: Does it get HEAD, or the NQP_REVISION?
12:32 jnthn [Coke]: 'cus that wasn't immediately bumped...
12:33 [Coke] NQP_REVISION only.
12:33 [Coke] muuuuust do the ulimit stuff...
12:35 [Coke] but for now, re-starting today's run.
12:35 [Coke] jnthn++
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14:32 timotimo github renders the text as "@ as shortcut for @$, % as shortcut for %$
14:35 FROGGS_ is here someone here who can upload http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.03.tar.gz and http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.03.msi to http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/?
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15:11 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 29 commits to nqp/r2-lex-to-local by timo
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15:47 [Coke] solely from an htop monitoring standpoint, i wonder if we'd be better off setting rakudo.jvm's classpath via env var rather than as a command line arg
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15:55 moritz [Coke]: that's a bit brittle, because some process might want to spawn a subprocess with a clean env
15:56 [Coke] yup. I'm just selfish and don't expect you to change. :)
15:56 [Coke] also, rakudo.jvm run still reaaaaly slow. :)
15:57 * moritz tries a j-spectest again
15:57 [Coke] note that I'm not using the eval server, and am doing one-at-a-time testing.
15:58 jnthn moritz: Do you ahve access to upload tarballs to rakudo.org?
15:59 moritz jnthn: yes
15:59 * moritz backlogs
15:59 jnthn moritz: Could you possibly upload the ones in the backlog?
15:59 jnthn moritz: I'd do it, but unsure where my key is...
15:59 jnthn Thought it was on this machine.
15:59 * moritz runs it
16:00 moritz [X] tarball uploaded
16:00 moritz [X] msi uploaded
16:00 moritz jnthn: the comment in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys says jnthn@jnthn.net
16:00 [Coke] moritz++ jnthn++ FROGGS++
16:01 [Coke] I am reminded - has anyone tried to make a rakudo.jar yet?
16:01 * moritz hasn't
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16:01 FROGGS[mobile] moritz++
16:01 FROGGS[mobile] thank you
16:02 * [Coke] wanted to have something where he could run perl6 code apps inside eclipse.
16:02 [Coke] s/code//
16:02 moritz FROGGS++ # release
16:04 timotimo \o/
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16:11 [Coke] .u ಠ
16:11 yoleaux U+0CA0 KANNADA LETTER TTHA [Lo] (ಠ)
16:14 [Coke] .u ‿
16:14 yoleaux U+203F UNDERTIE [Pc] (‿)
16:15 [Coke] .u ʘ
16:15 yoleaux U+0298 LATIN LETTER BILABIAL CLICK [Ll] (ʘ)
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16:46 * [Coke] just had to implement "can" in coldfusion. whee.
16:47 [Coke] (thankfully, introspection is possible, it's just verbose.)
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16:56 dalek Perlito: 4fdfade | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
16:56 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - js - create ''
16:56 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/4fdfadecab
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17:06 dalek Perlito: c7afb9d | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
17:06 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - syntax - allow '0'
17:06 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/c7afb9dbbf
17:12 Ven perlito's alive ? or the perl5-to-js backend is ? Seems to do a lot of things :p
17:12 Ven :o*
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17:16 Ven *before installing new rakudo-star * perl6 -v *after 5 seconds+* "2013.09" *install new rakudo star" perl6 -v "2014.03" instantly <3
17:17 xinming__ joined #perl6
17:19 moritz \o/
17:19 arnsholt Oh. nqp/O-refactor is broken on Moar. Maybe that's the same reason it's broken on Rakudo *fingers crossed*
17:21 Ven I'm really impressed with the huge speedup :). My gameoflife actually runs at a correct pace now. (the version in another language runs at the same speed ... though it has a sleep in it :p)
17:26 arnsholt [Coke]: Ideally, I'd like both NQP and Rakudo on JVM to be shipped as a single JAR, with all the deps inside
17:26 arnsholt Unfortunately, bundling JARs inside another JAR requires a certain amount of hackery to get working =/
17:30 Ven Though, I really don't know how you can get 60fps on your perl6 games when I get 1fps on my game of life ._.
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17:31 moritz does building NQP and Rakudo on top of parrot only feels a lot slower than on moarvm, or is that actually the case?
17:31 Ven perl6-m (and -j) will probably be next month, right ?
17:31 Ven I mean next rakudo star
17:33 moritz Ven: yes, though it'll be still experimental support
17:33 moritz Ven: but the patches (or at least most of them) that are needed for star's build system are already in a branch
17:33 moritz FROGGS[mobile], jnthn: now that star is released, what about merging tristar into master?
17:34 FROGGS +1
17:34 * Ven kinda wants to see the speedup improvement moar will bring
17:35 moritz Ven: you can build a rakudo-moar right now, without star
17:37 Ven Definitely, if you guys are saying it's cool
17:37 moritz it sure is
17:38 * Ven tastes the water
17:38 FROGGS it is very very cool
17:38 jnthn moritz: +1
17:39 jnthn moritz: And yeah, r-m builds faster
17:41 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 28 commits to star by moritz
17:42 moritz the merge conflicts were pretty trivial to resolve
17:43 arnsholt jnthn: Could you take a look at nqp/O-refactor? I'm not quite sure what's up with the compile error on Moar. Somehow the hash doesn't get flattened properly or somesuch?
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17:52 FROGGS moritz++
17:53 FROGGS arnsholt: you maybe look at run() or shell() and what we needed to get ha hash without containers (if that is the problem you have, dunno)
17:53 FROGGS in terms.pm or control.pm or where that is
17:56 isBEKaml joined #perl6
17:56 arnsholt I'm using nqp::hash (the grammar is NQP anyways, so no containers), the old O() returned a containerless hash as well, so not sure if that's it
17:58 guru joined #perl6
18:00 [Coke] (tristar merging) have to get the daily runs for that doing all three now.
18:00 [Coke] though I get the feeling the release manager is not looking at the failing tests until day of.
18:02 jnthn arnsholt: What backend did it work on?
18:02 arnsholt I did my testing on JVM
18:02 jnthn Hm, I thought that had same semantics as Moar...
18:02 arnsholt Yeah
18:03 moritz [Coke]: depends on the release manager :-)
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18:05 isBEKaml [Coke]: Are we really on tristar release this month? I saw only parrot from FROGGS++...
18:05 btyler isBEKaml: next month is the target, as I understand it
18:07 jnthn Well, "this month" now. It's April today :)
18:07 [Coke] are there any docs in the tristar merge that explain how to build for the various backends?
18:08 isBEKaml btyler: Ah, okay.
18:08 [Coke] I grepped around for jvm/moar in the top level and in the release guide, nothing stands out.
18:08 isBEKaml jnthn: Sure, I'm not the one picking dates for release. :-)
18:09 jnthn arnsholt: I don't see why you'd be hitting a problem. I wonder if it's a code-gen issue.
18:09 [Coke] is the star process the same, just the build of the bundle that's different?
18:10 [Coke] (and at that point, just like building for a regular build?)
18:11 arnsholt jnthn: Something codegen-y with hash flattening might fit, yeah
18:11 isBEKaml [Coke]: IIUC, the makefile for star build will have a single command to build all 3 backends.
18:12 isBEKaml [Coke]: So, the build process remains the same except perhaps an extra step for additional backends. Though, it's really not for me to say. :-)
18:13 jnthn [Coke]: It needs doc'ing, but it takes --backends=... and should be a lot like configuring Rakudo itself.
18:13 arnsholt Huh. It's broken on Parrot as well, actually
18:14 FROGGS isBEKaml: we missed to release a tristar for march by an inch :o)
18:15 isBEKaml FROGGS: Yeah, we don't want people to take this release less seriously now, do we? :P
18:17 dalek star: aa98b5c | coke++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
18:17 dalek star: Fix count, add more markup
18:17 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/aa98b5c268
18:20 [Coke] S17-concurrency/channel.t is still apparently hanging on the jvm.
18:20 [Coke] (it's using no cpu time, but not exiting)
18:21 [Coke] killing it manually so we can get a run today.
18:21 jnthn [Coke]: Weird...it stopped for me after last night's NQP patch
18:21 FROGGS[mobile] the msi build might become interesting
18:23 [Coke] jnthn: Perhaps it would have eventually, but the 0 cpu utilization was suspect.
18:24 dwarring [Coke]: I  just submitted RT121556
18:24 dwarring looks like the same problem
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18:24 jnthn [Coke]: No, there was no delay here.
18:25 jnthn [Coke]: What revision is the n-j?
18:26 * dwarring https://gist.github.com/dwarring/9920038
18:27 [Coke] # HEAD detached at 08e997a
18:27 jnthn [Coke]: And cf3bdf1 came after that and fixed the bug.
18:27 jnthn [Coke]: So it's just an old NQP
18:28 [Coke] jnthn: this is the build script: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/blob/master/bin/rakudo.jvm.sh
18:28 jnthn Oh!!
18:28 jnthn For some reason I thought an NQP_REVISION bump had been commat after my patch
18:29 jnthn But it hasn't been.
18:29 [Coke] ah, that would 'splain it.
18:29 jnthn [Coke]: Doing revision bumps.
18:29 jnthn Yeah, sorry 'bout that. Musta just misremembered what I saw going by in the commit log...
18:29 [Coke] no worries.
18:30 [Coke] I will try to manually kill the hangs for today's run, we'll get a fresh one tomorrow.
18:30 [Coke] jnthn++
18:30 dalek nqp: 46fab27 | jnthn++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
18:30 dalek nqp: Get a Moar with various thread/locking fixes.
18:30 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/46fab27c78
18:31 dalek rakudo/nom: 358582e | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
18:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump to latest NQP.
18:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/358582e32e
18:33 [Coke] (Ծ‸ Ծ) . o O (will this $dayjob project ever end?!)
18:38 Alula joined #perl6
18:40 jnthn need a walk; bbiab
18:41 rjbs joined #perl6
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18:54 LLamalessRider joined #perl6
18:55 LLamalessRider Good job to all for the 2014.03 release! And thanks for - the "@ for @$" and "% for %$" shortcuts.
18:55 LLamalessRider also, I apologize if this joke has already been made, but thanks for not making $ a shortcut for $$ :)
18:59 FROGGS *g*
19:00 FROGGS no, there was no joke until yet
19:00 FROGGS we usually do not tend to have humour :o)
19:01 moritz too many Germans around here :-)
19:11 [Sno] joined #perl6
19:16 jnthn The joke warfare left a bitter taste... :P
19:20 virtualsue joined #perl6
19:21 * [Coke] wants to make a pun on spec using Kummerspeck, but feels it's a bit of a stretch.
19:24 dwarring jnthn, [Coke] my jvm hang problem has gone away after rakudo rebuild - thanks
19:25 jnthn yays
19:29 lizmat good *, #perl6!
19:29 lizmat looking at: until $server_ready_flag_fn.IO ~~ :e { sleep(0.1) }
19:30 lizmat I wonder whether it makes sense to create a dedicated Promise out of that
19:30 lizmat something like "Promise.e($path)"
19:31 jnthn lizmat: I think watching file system events is more naturally a supply...
19:32 lizmat ah, good point, a promise working on a supply ?
19:32 jnthn And then we make a way to turn any supply into a promise that completes when the supply gives its first result, for example.
19:34 lizmat but the supply would be giving *all* file system events, no?
19:34 rindolf joined #perl6
19:34 lizmat and the promise would be kept as soon as the "created file with this path" comes down the supply ?
19:35 lizmat feels more like a tap on a supply, turned promise
19:35 jnthn Right, when you ask for such a promise, it taps the supply, keeps the promise with the first value that arrives, and then untaps.
19:35 lizmat gotcha
19:35 jnthn That's pretty much what Rx's .FirstAsync() does, fwiw. :)
19:36 lizmat except we don't have a supply for file system events (yet)
19:36 jnthn No, but I kinda want it for my reactive talks that are coming up.
19:36 jnthn So I'll probably implement it in the nearish future.
19:36 lizmat ah...  presentation driven development!
19:36 jnthn ;)
19:36 lizmat the season is starting again  :-)
19:37 jnthn Yeah. 3 confs coming up for me! \o/
19:37 jnthn Hm, I should make travel plans for 'em soon too I think.
19:38 * lizmat wonders whether a reduced Perl 6 (like brian d foy's R) would just be called '6'
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19:39 lizmat jnthn: and in the case of Promise.e, check first if the file already exists of course, and don't bother tapping if it is there already
19:39 lizmat hmmm... no, that would probably be a race condition
19:39 jnthn yeah :)
19:39 jnthn .e usually is... :)
19:40 lizmat first tap, then check if it exists, then untap if it already exists
19:41 lizmat I also just realized that the sleep sort test in t/spec/S17-concurrency/promise.t
19:41 lizmat basically also contains a race condition on the @a.push
19:42 lizmat it will most likely never happen, but it could
19:43 lizmat so I was thinking whether to create something like an "is shared" attribute
19:43 lizmat which would turn the array basically into an endpoint of a tap
19:44 lizmat and all accesses to it as mores into the supply
19:44 lizmat all write accesses that is
19:44 jnthn Just all.
19:45 jnthn I'm not sure I like an "as shared", but it occurs to me that if we provide a monitor module and an actor module then:
19:46 vendethiel lizmat: isn't it called "nqp" ;)?
19:46 jnthn actor Wrapper { has $.wrapped handles *; }; sub actorify($wrapped) { Wrapper.new(:$wrapped) }
19:47 moritz lizmat: or just write the results to a Channel, not to an Array
19:48 lizmat moritz: perhaps
19:48 lizmat but that would probably require more typing and would thus be more work that just using @a.push
19:49 moritz not that much more work
19:49 lizmat so people would tend to do the intrinsically wrong thing in this context
19:49 lizmat it also would need a context change in the minds of people
19:49 moritz my $c = Channel.new; ... $c.send($_); ... $c.close; is ~$c.list, '0 1 2 3 '...
19:49 lizmat furthermore, simple examples for parallelising code
19:50 lizmat such as: for @foo { ... } turning into: await do for @foo { start { ... } }
19:50 lizmat would not generally work if they access variables outside of the scope, like the sleep sort test
19:51 raiph jnthn (& others thinking about concurrency in P6): i'm curious what you know about http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/ or more specifically your reaction to the abstract at http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/publications/papers/07/unifying/index.htm
19:51 moritz lizmat: I can see the appeal to that, but I also think there's a danger
19:52 moritz lizmat: a shared array would have to be protected by locks (afaict), and that implies a risk of deadlocks
19:52 moritz so we lose on the composability front
19:52 jnthn Right. There's no free lunch here.
19:52 lizmat not if the array would in fact be an endpoint of a channel or a supply?
19:53 moritz and tracking down the deadlock if everything looks like a standard, non-concurrent variable might be much trickier
19:54 moritz lizmat: I can't imagine how that would work; might be just my limited imagination though
19:55 lizmat all accesses (read/write) to that array, would go through a channel/supply setup
19:55 jnthn s/might/almost certainly will/. One of the things I always find myself at pains to explain when I teach stuff like the concurrent collections, say, in .Net, is that *yes* they are thread safe collection types, but you can't just program with them like you'd program with non-threadsafe ones but just taking away locks.
19:55 lizmat with commands such as GET / STORE and the like going down the channel/supply
19:56 lizmat so basically make sure all accesses are done in order
19:56 jnthn my @results = await (1..10).pick(*).map: start { sleep $_; $_ }; # Channel free, thread safe, sleep sort
19:56 jnthn raiph: I'll have to read that in some detail to have a good answer. Will put it on my to read list, if you think it's worth it :)
19:57 jnthn m: say await (1..6).pick(*).map: start { sleep $_ * 0.5; $_ };
19:57 camelia rakudo-moar e9b185: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)No such method 'count' for invocant of type 'Promise'␤  in method reify at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7521␤  in method reify at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7432␤  in method reify at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7432␤  in method gimme at src/gen/m-COR…»
19:57 jnthn oops
19:57 jnthn m: say await (1..6).pick(*).map: { start { sleep $_ * 0.5; $_ } };
19:57 camelia rakudo-moar 358582: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)2 1 5 4 3 6␤»
19:57 jnthn oh lol
19:58 jnthn duh :)
19:58 * jnthn stops trying to do 5 things at once :)
20:00 * moritz wonders if   say race (1..6).pick(*).map: { sleep $_; $_ } ;   will eventually work
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20:00 jnthn It may but it depends on granularity
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20:01 vendethiel moritz: isn't that what's it doing right now ?
20:01 vendethiel "just compute and return it whatever is the order"?
20:02 * jnthn notes that a Promise.race($p1, $p2, ...) would be useful
20:02 vendethiel Allow promises to be passed to race ? `race ($p1, $p2)` ? Looks more composable
20:03 jnthn race is a modifier on a lazy list, like eager/hyper/lazy
20:04 moritz +1 to Promise.race
20:04 vendethiel then +1 to Promise.race too :-)
20:04 lizmat maybe "await" should return the promises in the order they were kept ?
20:04 moritz lizmat: I think that's not usually a good idea
20:04 vendethiel lizmat: that's what it looks to me, compared to hyper/race (?)
20:05 jnthn lizmat: I've had other use cases where I cared for the order.
20:06 lizmat mayby await would return in order of given promises, and queue(@p) would return in order of kept ?
20:06 timotimo r: class Foo { has $.name }; my $f = Foo.new(name => "hey there how are you"); say $f ~~ name => /hey/;
20:06 * vendethiel wonders if actually having `eager (1..6).pick(*).map: { start { sleep $_ * 0.5; $_ } }` would look better
20:06 camelia rakudo-moar 358582: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'match'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Cool:D: Any $target, *%adverbs)␤  in method match at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3568␤  in method Bool at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:12874␤  in method Bool at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:829␤  in method AC…»
20:06 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 358582: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:06 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 358582: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'match'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Cool:D: Any $target, *%adverbs)␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1219␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1210␤  in method match at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:3572␤  in method Bool at g…»
20:06 timotimo oh, that's not how that works :(
20:06 vendethiel m: say await (1..6).map: { start { sleep $_ * 0.5; $_ } };
20:06 camelia rakudo-moar 358582: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)1 2 3 4 5 6␤»
20:07 vendethiel m: say hyper (1..6).map: { start { sleep $_ * 0.5; $_ } };
20:07 camelia rakudo-moar 358582: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'hyper'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Any \op, Any \a, Any \b, Any :dwim-left($dwim-left), Any :dwim-right($dwim-right))␤:(Any \op, Any \obj)␤:(Any \op, Associative \a, Associative \b, Any :dwim-left($dwim-left), Any :dwim-right($dwi…»
20:07 moritz vendethiel: not much fun in sleep-sorting an already sorted list
20:07 moritz hyper is NYI
20:07 vendethiel moritz: I'm just wondering if `await` is actually on the same level as `hyper` and `race` ?
20:08 vendethiel S03 probably
20:08 moritz vendethiel: no
20:08 moritz vendethiel: await is a concurrency primitive; lazy/eager/hyper/race control laziness/eagerness of a list
20:09 vendethiel moritz: doesn't hyper and race imply concurrency, though ?
20:09 moritz vendethiel: potential concurrency
20:09 jnthn Potential, and they're for data parallel rather than task parallel operations.
20:10 vendethiel so, the compiler is free to rewrite `say race (1..6).map: { $_ * 5 }` to `say await (1..6).pick(*).map: { start { $_ * 5 } }` ?
20:10 jnthn vendethiel: No, it'll be implemented differently.
20:10 vendethiel (not that it's useful, but I mean that it has the correct meaning)
20:10 vendethiel jnthn: Yeah, not *implemented like that*, just "follows semantics"
20:11 jnthn vendethiel: With "await" the implementation is allowed to use the current thread you're on to do other stuff while you wait, and resume the code on another one later...
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20:11 lue r: say "abcde" X <f g>
20:11 camelia rakudo-parrot 358582, rakudo-jvm 358582, rakudo-moar 358582: OUTPUT«abcde f abcde g␤»
20:11 vendethiel jnthn: not sure how that answers my question ?
20:11 lue r: say "abcde".comb X <f g>
20:11 camelia rakudo-parrot 358582, rakudo-jvm 358582, rakudo-moar 358582: OUTPUT«a f a g b f b g c f c g d f d g e f e g␤»
20:11 lue r: say "abcde".comb X "fg".comb
20:12 camelia rakudo-parrot 358582, rakudo-jvm 358582: OUTPUT«a f a g b f b g c f c g d f d g e f e g␤»
20:12 camelia ..rakudo-moar 358582: OUTPUT«␤»
20:12 lue I think I found a bug :)
20:12 vendethiel it's nice that the main thread can be used, but why is my 2nd version (beside being stupid) not following semantics?
20:12 FROGGS lue: go on and fix it :o)
20:13 lue I have no clue what's going wrong though
20:13 jnthn vendethiel: The compiler isn't free to re-write it, I don't think
20:13 jnthn vendethiel: But I think they'd be equivalent-ish
20:13 vendethiel jnthn: all I'm asking :). Thanks!
20:14 FROGGS r: say "fg".comb
20:14 camelia rakudo-parrot 358582, rakudo-jvm 358582, rakudo-moar 358582: OUTPUT«f g␤»
20:14 vendethiel (WRT data parallelism VS task parallelism, in the case where you take a range and map over it, isn't it data parallelism ?)
20:16 jnthn vendethiel: Yeah, which is why then using start is odd :)
20:16 jnthn Well, it's not odd in so far as hyper/race are NYI, but... :)
20:16 vendethiel jnthn: oh, just realized you meant you'd use hyper/race instead of await/start here.
20:16 jnthn yes :)
20:17 vendethiel jnthn++ # being patient with me
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20:32 timotimo can i combine lines() working without an argument and sub MAIN(some stuff here)?
20:33 timotimo ah it's just a dynamic variable i can do whatever i want with
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20:43 dalek roast: b069ef0 | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2013-day14.t:
20:43 dalek roast: adding 2013 advent day 14
20:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b069ef04ac
20:44 rurban1 joined #perl6
20:46 dwarring jnthn: I've changed one thing in class INIFileActions...
20:47 dwarring for $<entry> -> $e { %entries{$e<key>} = ~$e<value>  } => for @<entry> -> $e { ... }
20:47 dwarring was giving error:  postcircumfix:<{ }> not defined for type Array
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20:58 lizmat jnthn: am I correct in assuming tha: winner * { done @promises { ... } }
20:58 lizmat is NYI ?
21:00 jnthn lizmat: I don't know off hand, but it woudln't surprise me.
21:03 lizmat m: my @p = (^10).map: { start { $_ } }; winner * { done @p { say $:v.result } }
21:03 camelia rakudo-moar 358582: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)Type check failed in assignment to '&block'; expected 'Callable' but got 'Promise'␤  in method STORE at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7092␤  in block  at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:18481␤  in sub WINNER at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:18476␤  in block …»
21:04 lizmat something wrong in Actions setting up the parameters to WINNER ?
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21:22 lizmat jnthn: ^^^
21:23 lizmat perhaps not setting "wild_more" ?
21:25 jnthn lizmat: Hm, good guess.
21:25 jnthn lizmat: I'm not too familiar with the actions code there.
21:25 lizmat ok, I'll delve some more into it
21:26 lizmat I'll get back if I have more questions
21:26 jnthn k
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21:32 lizmat setting wild_more manually to 1, doesn't fix the problem
21:32 lizmat more complicated than I thought and therefore not the right time to do this
21:33 lizmat so instead, I'll sleep on it&
21:33 jnthn lizmat++ # investigating
21:33 jnthn 'night
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22:01 dalek perl6-roast-data: 74de701 | coke++ | / (6 files):
22:01 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
22:01 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/74de7010b2
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22:37 dalek nqp/multispec: 4d20d38 | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
22:37 dalek nqp/multispec: Map setmultispec op for MoarVM.
22:37 dalek nqp/multispec: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4d20d381f1
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: baef318 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/ (2 files):
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: Start using setmultispec on MoarVM.
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/baef3180a3
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: 5bdac8b | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: Auto-gen'd protos don't need special vars.
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec:
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: We will never look at them or use them, so don't waste time/space on
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: having them.
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5bdac8b9af
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: 60d56fa | jnthn++ | src/core/Regex.pm:
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: Partial fix to regressions from setmultispec work.
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec:
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: We need to make onlystar protos consistently not show up in caller
22:50 dalek rakudo/multispec: introspection to make this reliable. We need that for not getting
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