Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-04-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:19 dalek roast: 0aefc53 | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2012-day14.t:
01:19 dalek roast: adding 2012 advent day 14
01:19 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0aefc534e0
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03:56 avuserow colomon: I haven't considered a proxy really. I didn't find too much on that. I'll give it a shot.
03:57 masak morning, #perl6
03:59 avuserow good localtime, masak :)
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04:29 BenGoldberg Good mornevenafternnight?
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04:42 masak the abigail quote by the end of http://www.perl.com/pub/200​5/03/03/pugs_interview.html is funny :>
05:10 TimToady a lot of moat water has flowed under that drawbridge
05:12 FROGGS_ single moat water, even
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05:19 moritz \o
05:20 FROGGS_ o/
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05:50 lue Not very Perl 6-related, and a bit ranty, but I blogged anyway :)    https://rdstar.wordpress.com/201​4/04/25/i-just-love-%E2%99%A5-c/
05:51 FROGGS_ lue: I commented on that and I'd like to know your opinions... http://rdstar.wordpress.com​/2014/03/09/perl6-and-cpan/
05:56 lue FROGGS_: replied
06:00 FROGGS_ lue: replied again :o)
06:01 FROGGS_ lue: whenever you have concerns or anything, please please ping or .tell me/lizmat
06:03 raydiak \o
06:04 lue FROGGS_: ah, I think my mistake was looking at the .pod pages, because that's where your searches always land and they seem like the main feature of search.cpan.org anyway.
06:04 lue #perl6 o/
06:06 FROGGS_ lue: yes, the interface of search.cpan.org is not state of the art :o)
06:06 FROGGS_ gnight lue
06:07 FROGGS_ hi raydiak
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06:13 sergot morning #perl6 o/
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06:22 FROGGS_ morning sergot
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06:57 timotimo hmm
06:57 FROGGS hmm?
06:57 FROGGS timotimo: btw, I made some progress with labels-m last night
06:59 FROGGS it installs the exception handlers in while loops for last/redo/next LABEL (yet without the label), and when it throws the exception (like in `last FOO`), it throws the correct exception category and already attaches the LABEL
06:59 timotimo <3
07:00 FROGGS next is to attach the LABEL to the handler and then when looking for an exception handler I just need to compare for the LABEL's .WHERE (which is its memory address)
07:01 FROGGS I'd love to work on that right now, but... $work :/
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07:16 moritz https://stripe.com/blog/stripe-open-source-retreat # maybe somebody wants to work on rakduo or MoarVM for three months in SF? :-)
07:16 moritz (I doubt they'd fund that, but it might be worth a shot)
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07:19 FROGGS wow
07:19 FROGGS stripe.com++
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07:43 sergot karma stripe.com
07:49 FROGGS .karma stripe.com
07:49 FROGGS .help
07:49 yoleaux FROGGS: I'm yoleaux. Type .commands to see what I can do, or see http://dpk.io/yoleaux for a quick guide.
07:49 FROGGS .commands
07:49 yoleaux Commands are divided into categories: services, general, api, demos, admin. Use .commands <category> to get a list of the commands in each.
07:49 FROGGS .commands services
07:49 yoleaux Commands in services: acronym, add-command, command-help, del-command, dety, geo, leo, moon, ngrams, nokiageo, o, r2r, roll, rot13, shipping, suggest, swhack, thesaurus, title, tw, twho, weather, yi. Use .help to get information about them.
07:50 FROGGS .commands general
07:50 yoleaux Commands in general: ask, at, botsnack, buck, bytes, choose, in, msg, on, pick, ping, seen, supercombiner, t, tell, to, tz. Use .help to get information about them.
07:50 FROGGS hmmm, perhaps only preflex did that
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08:03 dalek roast: 3978e49 | raydiak++ | S02-types/type.t:
08:03 dalek roast: Fix 'Int !~~ Numeric' test description
08:03 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3978e49f13
08:04 FROGGS hehe
08:04 FROGGS good catch :o)
08:05 raydiak :)
08:06 raydiak I noticed on the feature matrix it says rakudo supports an outdated spec of type coercions...what specifically does that mean?
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08:08 FROGGS I dunno
08:16 moritz m: sub f (Cool $x as Int) { say $x }; f '42'
08:16 camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«42␤»
08:16 moritz by the current spec, that would be written as sub f(Cool(Int) $x) { ... }
08:17 raydiak I see
08:17 moritz it seems to treat those coercion types as first-class objects
08:17 moritz but is pretty much silent on their properties, exception for the coercion aspect
08:18 raydiak hm
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08:20 moritz so I guess some significant exploring/prototyping is necessary before actualy implementation
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08:23 sergot For those who don't know about this: I have the pleasure of inviting you for the second Polish Perl Workshop which is held on 17th and 18th of May. http://act.yapc.eu/plpw2014/
08:23 FROGGS moritz: that feels like I could `say Cool(Int)` and would get an coercion object... is that right?
08:23 sergot We'd have nice gadgets for you! :)
08:23 FROGGS yay! I am coming for the gadgets then :o)
08:24 sergot FROGGS: hah, a mug maybe? :)
08:24 moritz FROGGS: yes, if I understand correctly
08:24 FROGGS sergot: ohh, I like mugs
08:24 FROGGS moritz: that could be very very handy
08:34 mhasch whow, plpw has lots of Perl 6 coverage
08:35 FROGGS that is the new shiny, aye :o)
08:36 FROGGS and, even when somebody is not interested in P6 itself, learning techniques or how it can be done also is more interesting than "Here I show you how we mangle data in company X" IMO
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11:48 dalek nqp/async_ops: fd6faf9 | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
11:48 dalek nqp/async_ops: Fix Ops.bindsock to test instanceof IIOBindable instead of ServerSocketHandle.
11:48 dalek nqp/async_ops: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fd6faf93ad
11:48 dalek nqp/async_ops: e5b3c06 | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (5 files):
11:48 dalek nqp/async_ops: Implement socket asyncconnect, asynclisten on JVM.
11:48 dalek nqp/async_ops: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e5b3c06ec3
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12:33 dalek Perlito: f08aa3e | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | src5/lib/Perlito5/Grammar/Regex5.pm:
12:33 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - regex - cleanup
12:33 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/f08aa3e9cd
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13:16 * [Coke] drinks a coffee and lets his brain decompress.
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13:30 * vendethiel is back from a conf where people discussed CMS in java ...
13:38 raiph https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW75CXY-P3M is a one hour video of jnthn doing his 2014 fosdem talk titled "Perl 6: what can you do today?"
13:38 raiph I believe this is the version with the audio cleaned up as best possible.
13:39 raiph Does someone have the tools to create a new version of this that is just the bit from 4m06s thru 33m59s?
13:41 vendethiel raiph: that's the best part :P ?
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13:47 raiph vendethiel: yes
13:54 raiph vendethiel: the audio is clean for a few seconds before and after, and there are sporadic clean bits later on
13:56 retupmoca I found another moarvm precomp issue: https://gist.github.com/retupmoca/11290398
13:57 retupmoca I might poke at it this weekend if I have time
13:57 raiph I think the section 4m06s thru 33m59s (of the above video) would make a nice coherent talk titled "Parsing informally structured text into a data model in 36 lines of Perl 6 code"
13:58 vendethiel raiph: usually, I just show people the JSON::Tiny grammar, and they're like "oh. yeah. Uhmmm..."
13:59 raiph vendethiel: as in, a neutral/negative reaction? have you gone thru jnthn's temperature data example, eg watched the video I linked?
14:00 vendethiel raiph: as in, "holy buckets, that would take 100 more lines to write in my language"
14:00 vendethiel -- am I that bad at conveying enthusiasm of other people ?!
14:00 vendethiel (and yeah I've pretty much read every slides jnthn made 'til ~2011)
14:00 vendethiel what I show, in order of appearance : junctions. That always get people a head start. Multi dispatch. Ability to add operator. [+] with range. With "...", they're usually convinced
14:01 vendethiel and when they ask what could be a really strong point, I show them JSON::Tiny. It's worked everytime, and I think I got 3 people on this channel :)
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14:06 FROGGS vendethiel: you have very good points there :o)
14:07 jnthn My NLPW talk: http://jnthn.net/papers/2014-nlpw-reactive.pdf
14:07 raiph vendethiel: sounds like a winning strategy. JSON::Tiny makes a point, and very quickly :)
14:07 vendethiel It's like I was a commercial in an older life o/
14:08 raiph advantages of the temp data example over JSON::Tiny include: ad hoc data (so one can't say, well, just use an existing parser); jnthn++; shows more of P6 dev process, especially use of debugger; is a video walk thru; jnthn; shows how to map from parser tree to a different data structure; jnthn
14:08 vendethiel (I'm not sure if you can say "I was a commercial" like I mean it, in english)
14:08 jnthn https://github.com/jnthn/perl6-reactive-samples is the sample code (link in slides too, but that's a clicky :))
14:08 vendethiel jnthn++
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14:14 colomon jnthn++
14:15 raiph jnthn: have you done your recent one hour "Perl 6: what you can do today?" talk anywhere else, with a good recording? (only half the FOSDEM talk is salvageable as discussed above)
14:16 jnthn raiph: no, only did it the one time at fosdem
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14:16 jnthn today's was recorded fwiw.
14:16 vendethiel nice o/
14:17 jnthn hopefully well...I wore a mic
14:17 vendethiel How was the Python perl6 grammar called ? I thought it was snake
14:18 jnthn I thought snake too
14:18 jnthn https://github.com/arnsholt/snake
14:18 vendethiel yeah, thanks. Github didn't yield any result.
14:18 vendethiel (and had no "Perl" in the language list ...)
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14:21 vendethiel One more future-perl6er, I guess :]
14:23 raiph jnthn: I would love to see you get a nice break from P6ing, but from the POV of having a longer video to point folk to, a well recorded "Perl 6: what can you do today?" talk this year by you, perhaps with some concurrency too, would be very useful :)
14:25 jnthn raiph: Yeah. Wonder how to arrange it...
14:25 jnthn coffee, bbl
14:26 colomon does IO::Notification actually work today?!
14:26 [Coke] -1 on showing junctions first. (people always want to poke at the internal values, which is a no no)
14:27 FROGGS [Coke]: for perlers I'd show sub signatures and multiple dispatch
14:27 moritz show roles!
14:27 FROGGS that would be like a wow... WOW!!
14:27 masak jnthn! \o/
14:28 jnthn oh, my bad, lightning talks...
14:28 jnthn :)
14:28 jnthn colomon: Yes, all that code works today. :)
14:28 colomon \o/
14:28 colomon jnthn++ indeed!
14:28 jnthn Yes, I really did write a partial GTK binding on the train to the Netherlands.
14:28 FROGGS hehe
14:28 colomon jnthn: I haven't gotten that far yet….
14:28 FROGGS nice :o)
14:29 jnthn oh, sorry for spoiling the surprise :P
14:29 * colomon thinks we need to figure out how to get jnthn to take more train rides.  ;)
14:29 Ulti buy a model railway...
14:30 jnthn Well, needs to be a train ride with power and preferably internets :)
14:30 jnthn So you can't just send me off on the Trans-Sib...unless it gained power sockets since I last did it :)
14:30 masak vendethiel: arnsholt/snake is still very early days, I'm afraid.
14:30 masak vendethiel: I have vowed to add indentation parsing and a test suite... but haven't gotten that far yet. :/
14:31 jnthn masak: Would it help if we badger you more about it? :)
14:32 jnthn masak: Or give you mushrooms, maybe?
14:32 colomon Ulti: I have a very small, very simple, very desperately in need of scenary work, model railway.
14:32 masak jnthn: aaaaaaaah!
14:33 colomon jnthn: GTK::Simple not yet in ecosystem?
14:33 * masak .oO( have to make do with GTK::Complicated... )
14:33 jnthn colomon: No, I was wondering if I might delekate that
14:33 moritz then I'll contribute a GTK::Weird
14:33 jnthn uh, delegate
14:34 btyler jnthn++ # just read the reactive programming slides. so cool!
14:35 masak jnthn: sounds like a delekate problem
14:35 masak btyler: url?
14:35 jnthn masak: a defekate problem would be crappier...
14:35 btyler masak: from about 20 minutes ago here: http://jnthn.net/papers/2014-nlpw-reactive.pdf
14:35 masak btyler++ # thanks!
14:38 jnthn masak: You get to see it live next month anyway :)
14:41 colomon jnthn: oh, the GTK::Simple code is already up at perl6-reactive-samples.  nice.
14:41 jnthn yes :)
14:42 colomon is there a way to make a module owned by the perl6 organization on github?
14:42 moritz colomon: yes, you can transfer ownership
14:43 moritz or I can create a fork into the perl6 organization
14:43 colomon hmmm… # definitely would not want to personally own a GTK::Simple module, but….
14:43 moritz colomon: or I can create a new git repo for you, if you want
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14:43 jnthn yes, I can contribute more to it, but I own enough things ;)
14:44 colomon I think group ownership is best for something like this, at least if you don't want it personally.
14:44 * colomon is more than willing to let moritz++ do all the work so colomon can $work.  ;)
14:44 moritz also for modules that have been abandonded by their previous owners
14:44 moritz colomon: repo name? perl6/gtk-simple ?
14:44 colomon sounds good
14:44 jnthn wtfm
14:44 jnthn I'm not attached to the name GTK::Simple either
14:45 jnthn Though it...does make for simple code :)
14:45 tadzik is there any reason why it should be ::Simple?
14:45 tadzik do we have a regular Gtk?
14:45 tadzik LWP::Simple was simple at first, but then more and more features got it, and it isn't any simple now :)
14:46 jnthn Well, given it uses supplies for all the events, Gtk::Reactive isn't a bad name either
14:46 jnthn but doing it *without* supplies is probably not very idiomatic Perl 6 ;)
14:47 moritz https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple created for your convenience
14:48 moritz tadzik: we can have a module Gtk.pm6 in the gtk-simple repo, and rename the repo once it stops being simple :-)
14:48 vendethiel [Coke]: why not show junctions first ? Why not show them that, finally in 2014, you can say `$a == 1 | 2` ?
14:48 moritz [Coke]: then the next quextion is 'given 1|2, how do I extract the values?'
14:48 moritz sorry, meant vendethiel
14:49 vendethiel moritz: no, it's not. They don't see it as a value
14:49 moritz vendethiel: and then you link them to http://faq.perl6.org/#eigenstate
14:49 vendethiel yeah, I've seen that already, but I'm not linking anybody to that.
14:49 moritz vendethiel: well, it's been a FAQ in here
14:49 vendethiel if they ask do ask "how do I extract the values", I say "use an array instead".
14:50 vendethiel s/ask do/do/
14:52 vendethiel (with any(@ari), that is)
14:57 timotimo an array or a set
14:57 vendethiel sure, but that's out of my point here (point itself being in the faq too)
14:57 * timotimo is reading the slides and is a bit giddy
14:58 masak jnthn++ # http://jnthn.net/papers/2014-nlpw-reactive.pdf is awesome
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14:58 masak jnthn: so, you took the best bits of Rx, and ported them to Perl 6? :)
14:59 jnthn And TimToady gave us some nice names for things :)
14:59 jnthn Still some combinators to go :)
15:03 tadzik hmm
15:03 timotimo there's something funny about writing "$source.changed.unchaged(1)"
15:03 tadzik so now I just have to port MIDI to Perl 6 and I can rewrite my bachelor's code in Perl 6 :)
15:03 jnthn timotimo: hehe :)
15:03 jnthn unchanged is one of those names TimToady is likely to twiddle anyway
15:03 colomon tadzik:  hmmm.....
15:04 tadzik and use all the nice threading things
15:04 masak tadzik: please please port MIDI to Perl 6
15:05 masak tadzik: I promise that if you do, we'll have the awesomest lightning talk together that ever lightning-talked.
15:05 tadzik hmmmm
15:05 masak synthesizer on stage anyone?
15:05 timotimo jnthn: i don't know why i'm even surprised, but that talk seems pretty darn awesome
15:05 jnthn :D
15:05 tadzik ha :)
15:05 timotimo thank you so much!
15:05 tadzik well, I mostly need MIDI for parsing midi streams
15:05 jnthn masak: ooh, #perl6 band? :)
15:10 masak "Camelia and the wailers"
15:12 FROGGS the first album will be called "Anonymous Monk"
15:13 colomon +1
15:13 jnthn haha
15:14 masak I'd like to see an album called "Swiss Army Chainsaw"
15:16 * colomon dreams of a tune called "NYI"
15:17 jnthn Or "==SORRY!==" :)
15:17 masak jnthn: :)
15:17 masak we should make a list of these album titles.
15:18 jnthn And, in one of my favorite errors: "Unmarshallable object" :)
15:18 masak moritz: hah! we could have one called "RT #58392" :P
15:18 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=58392
15:18 masak clearly that will be an album from the "angry era"...
15:19 masak you young'uns have no idea what I'm talking about... :P
15:19 jnthn I hope that isn't the closure bug :P
15:19 btyler speaking of music, I went to a javascript meetup last night and someone was doing live-coding music improv using http://yaxu.org/tidal/ (a haskell dsl). seems to me that nativecall + slangs could make for some really fun bindings to different sound libs
15:19 jnthn oh my, it is...
15:20 masak of course it is.
15:20 masak btyler: indeed.
15:20 masak btyler: which is yet another reason we need slangs ASAP for world dom^W^Woptimized for fun.
15:21 * colomon is going to try rakudobrew on his MBP
15:24 colomon Unhandled exception: While looking for 'ModuleLoader.moarvm': no such file or directory
15:24 colomon at <unknown>:1  (src/vm/moar/stage0/nqp.moarvm::7)
15:24 colomon make: *** [gen/moar/stage1/nqpmo.moarvm] Error 1
15:24 colomon tthat's a new one for me
15:27 vendethiel m: sub f($l) {    return() if $l <= 0;    say "entering $l";    for 1..3 {        f($l-1);        say "looping in $l";    }}; f(2);
15:27 camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«entering 2␤entering 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 2␤entering 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 2␤entering 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 2␤»
15:28 jnthn pub &
15:28 colomon rakudobrew doesn't handle the failure well at all, if I try to do rakudobrew build moar again after the above failure
15:28 colomon it it claims moar is already built.
15:28 colomon pub++
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15:52 raydiak mornin
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15:58 dalek rakudo-star-daily: e93fd22 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
15:58 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
15:58 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/e93fd22952
15:58 grondilu so I receive a mail telling me that I've automatically been subscribed to https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple but it appears to be just a placeholder.  So yeah, lol.  Question though:  will it depend on NativeCall (it does not work on my machine)?
15:59 timotimo it does depend on that
15:59 [Coke] Do you have a ticket open for nativecall not working?
16:00 grondilu there's issue #21 already:  https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/issues/21
16:00 arnsholt Yeah
16:00 arnsholt Have you tried wrapping some code, BTW?
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16:01 grondilu not sure what you mean.
16:03 arnsholt I suspect it might be a test bug, rather than an implementation bug
16:04 grondilu oh
16:05 donaldh Since it's Friday, here's "Hello world!". In async socket IO.
16:05 donaldh IO::Socket::Async.listen('localhost', 4000).tap(-> $c { $c.send("Hello world!\n"); $c.close() });
16:06 timotimo \o/
16:06 timotimo jnthn: is there a clever way to abort the eval in the golf helper if it gets replaced?
16:06 timotimo especially if you accidentally an infinite loop?
16:08 colomon tadzik: rakudo moar will not build for me under rakudobrew on my MBP, it works fine if I build it by hand.  (parrot on rakudobrew works fine on the MBP, moar on rakudobrew works fine on my Linux box.)
16:09 raiph jnthn++ # awesome reactive presentation
16:09 raiph jnthn: possible improvements: typo? "thread safely" -> "thread safety"; "UI events are exposed as live supplies (since the events happen whether they are tapped or not)" -> "Live supplies rather than on-demand (since the events happen whether they are tapped or not)"; "This means many things can tap a given event" -> "Many things can tap a given ev
16:09 raiph ent" (unless this is really due to "live" aspect)
16:10 grondilu arnsholt: oh you seem to be write.  I change 'long value' to 'long long value' and now the test pass.
16:10 grondilu s/write/right/  # what an awful typo
16:10 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
16:11 grondilu but should the code somehow work also with 'long value' anyway?
16:11 grondilu s/should/shouldn't/
16:12 * grondilu is talking about line 39 of 05-arrays.c
16:12 dalek nqp/async_ops: 4872cf7 | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (2 files):
16:12 dalek nqp/async_ops: First cut at timer cancelling on JVM.
16:12 dalek nqp/async_ops: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4872cf728d
16:12 dalek nqp/async_ops: 704c5c6 | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (3 files):
16:12 dalek nqp/async_ops: WIP async read, write ops on JVM.
16:12 dalek nqp/async_ops: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/704c5c62ae
16:12 FROGGS joined #perl6
16:15 TimToady surely "unchanged" should be something more like "stable"
16:16 TimToady backing negatives into a name is almost always an ungood idea
16:16 TimToady *baking
16:16 TimToady another bad taipeaux
16:17 TimToady well, the x is probably x-cessive
16:17 btyler unless not unchanged { } ... else { ... }
16:18 vendethiel .changed(:debounce(1)) ?
16:18 vendethiel or :throttle maybe
16:18 timotimo maybe even "stabilize"
16:19 FROGGS unless ... { ... } elsif ... { ... } continue { ... } *shudder*
16:19 FROGGS but it could be worse, it could be PHP or Java
16:27 raydiak heh...OT but amusing...how to tell if something is true or false in PHP: http://php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php
16:28 FROGGS that files under the category: if you have to make a table, there is something wrong
16:29 timotimo see also the periodic table of operators :P
16:29 vendethiel bashing php ? what is this, 2006 :-) ?
16:30 * vendethiel last bashed PHP this afternoon - but in a room full of php devs, it's hard not to :p
16:30 timotimo poor php devs
16:33 * raydiak is still reading comments on that page and chuckling
16:34 grondilu here is the patch of my local modifications of NativeCall's test suite.  https://gist.github.com/grondilu/11295465  I basically replaced all 'long' in structures with 'long long'.  It made all tests pass.
16:34 timotimo i like how the == thing with strings that look like numbers is fixed in perl 6 in two different ways at the same time
16:34 timotimo first, we have eq, second we have infinite-sized ints.
16:36 masak +1 on "stable"
16:37 vendethiel well, I think I can resume one of the biggest warts of php with `assert(in_array(array('7.10'), '7.1'))`
16:41 * vendethiel thinks having separate operators for separate operations is good
16:41 kurahaupo joined #perl6
16:42 timotimo that's for substring containment?
16:42 vendethiel timotimo: no, that checks if a value is an array(/list)
16:42 vendethiel but it does coerce, even if both of them are strings already. go figure ...
16:43 timotimo er, what now?
16:43 timotimo this checks what is an array?
16:43 vendethiel I'm afraid you got PHP'd.
16:43 raydiak checks what is *in* an array
16:43 vendethiel Yes, in_array checks whether the 2nd argument if in the first
16:44 vendethiel is in* the first (the first being an array)
16:44 timotimo ah. that makes more sense
16:44 vendethiel but PHP decides to coerce both operands when comparing it seems, even if they have the same type
16:44 timotimo so you have to coerce the first argument to an array if it's a string, but the second one gets coerced for you?
16:45 vendethiel No, you just use in_array like `any(('7.10', '3')) == 5`
16:45 vendethiel (would be in PHP `in_array(array('7.10', '3'), 5)` - in_array isn't for substring containment. if you want to check substring containment in php, you gotta use strpos)
16:45 huf no it wouldnt
16:46 huf in_array is needle,haystack
16:46 huf and the default is the insane incomprehensible php-ish loose comparison which does whatever the hell it wants
16:46 huf perturbed by leap seconds for all i know
16:46 vendethiel oh yeah, that's strpos which has parameters the other way around :-)
16:46 huf there's an optional boolean 3rd parameter to make it compare strictly
16:46 vendethiel I can never remember the order, for there's *no* order.
16:46 huf because *that* is such a wonderful idea...
16:46 timotimo boolean arguments are great
16:47 timotimo they are always so clear in their meaning
16:47 huf true, true, true, false, null, true true
16:47 vendethiel that's where perl6 shines :-)
16:47 timotimo especially since you've gotten rid of named arguments
16:47 timotimo because they make code harder to understand
16:47 timotimo well
16:47 timotimo they would, if you had them
16:47 timotimo but you don't have them. you've abolished them. you never put them in. and look how your lovely code shines now <3
16:48 huf ha! function x($_) { extract($_); .... } # named params!
16:48 huf just to bring up another god-awful feature
16:48 [Sno] joined #perl6
16:49 timotimo does extract do what i fear it does?
16:50 huf creates a bunch of vars from the k/v of the so-called array
16:50 huf also has some random flag options to control how it clobbers your shit
16:50 timotimo i'm quite glad lexpads are frozen at compile-time in perl6
16:51 vendethiel that's why :abc is sooo much better
16:52 vendethiel m: sub defau(:$!lt) { say $lt }; defau();
16:52 camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol $?CLASS␤»
16:52 vendethiel that's an, uh, interesting error.?
16:52 vendethiel oh, okay
16:52 timotimo ah, yes
16:52 timotimo that ought to be more helpful
16:52 Khisanth joined #perl6
16:53 vendethiel m: sub defau(:!$lt) { say $lt }; defau();
16:53 camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/NuqoayPDmUâ�¤Malformed parameterâ�¤at /tmp/NuqoayPDmU:1â�¤------> [32msub defau([33mâ��[31m:!$lt) { say $lt }; defau();[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        prefix or te…»
16:53 timotimo that seems to happen inside the optimizer
16:53 vendethiel well, I get that it sees $! as a class thingie, but erm
16:54 timotimo nope, it does ot.
16:54 timotimo yes, it does
16:54 timotimo it should warn you that you're using $! variables where no class is available
16:54 * timotimo is working on a fix already :)
16:56 FROGGS "Weird-ish use of class private variable outside of a class"
16:56 FROGGS or, in proper english or so
16:56 FROGGS damn, I don't even know how to brane
16:56 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
16:58 timotimo cannot use a $! parameter in a signature where no $?CLASS is available
16:58 timotimo ------> sub defau($!lt⏏) { }
16:58 vendethiel timotimo++
16:59 vendethiel erm, I remember a debate here to decide whether `abc(1..10)` should smartmatch or match a range ?
16:59 timotimo i'll clean up the code and put it up
16:59 timotimo why would abc(1..10) smartmatch anything?
16:59 vendethiel sub abc*
16:59 timotimo oh
17:00 timotimo hm. the cleaner code didn't fly
17:02 timotimo since it doesn't take long at all, i can just as well go ahead and do a spectest run with the change :P
17:03 timotimo actually. nah.
17:03 dalek rakudo/nom: 440739c | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
17:03 dalek rakudo/nom: nice error if $?CLASS isn't there around signatures
17:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/440739c18f
17:03 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
17:07 timotimo does anybody have an idea how to have something like start { try EVAL .text } have a timer that'd abort the evaluation in case of stuff like infinite loops and such?
17:08 hoverboard joined #perl6
17:09 tadzik colomon: how does it fail?
17:10 timotimo is there a way for NativeCall to refer to symbols inside the current application?
17:10 colomon tadzik: give me a moment
17:11 retupmoca timotimo: maybe just "is native is symbol('foo')" ?
17:12 timotimo hmm, how to best try this?
17:14 timotimo ah, i could abuse MVM_vm_create_instance
17:14 raydiak timotimo: one way to do a promise timeout: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S17.html#line_320
17:15 colomon tadzik: OH
17:16 arnsholt timotimo: is native(Str) will let you look up symbols in the current executable
17:16 arnsholt What're you trying to do?
17:16 colomon tadzik: and that time it worked.  stupid computers.
17:16 timotimo oh, cool
17:16 timotimo just pass an undefined string?
17:16 retupmoca is native does the same thing as is native(Str)
17:16 retupmoca you don't need the (Str) at the end
17:17 timotimo i want to embed a moarvm in a program and offer C functions to be called to the perl6 program i'm embedding
17:17 raiph .tell lue http://blog.gatunka.com/2014/04/25/char​acter-encodings-for-modern-programmers/
17:17 yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to lue.
17:17 colomon when it failed, it looked like http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2014-04-25#i_8637865
17:17 colomon tadzik: ^^
17:19 tadzik oddness
17:19 tadzik curious though, how building it manually is any different than building on rakudobrew
17:20 arnsholt timotimo: Right. In that case, just exposing them with unadorned is native is probably the right thing, yeah
17:20 timotimo cool.
17:20 ssutch joined #perl6
17:21 arnsholt What're you embedding Moar in, OOC?
17:21 timotimo huh
17:21 timotimo i'll perhaps have something to show at some point, or abandon the program :P
17:21 timotimo it's mostly a program that wants to load scripts and run them, replacing the VM each time
17:22 vendethiel m: sub foo(%foo, :$when) { say :%foo.perl; say :$when.perl; }; foo(a => 1, when => 2);
17:22 camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤  in sub foo at /tmp/zDgc8USZdG:1␤  in block  at /tmp/zDgc8USZdG:1␤␤»
17:23 vendethiel m: sub foo(%foo, :$when) { say :%foo.perl; say :$when.perl; }; foo({a => 1}, when => 2);
17:23 camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«"foo" => {"a" => 1}␤"when" => 2␤»
17:23 timotimo you probably want () around the colon pairs there
17:23 colomon tadzik: huh, now the rakudo moar I built isn't working correctly.
17:23 * grondilu realises there actully is a int32 native type in Perl 6
17:23 vendethiel timotimo: {} is fine too :-)
17:23 timotimo m: sub foo(%foo, :$when) { say (:%foo).perl; say (:$when).perl; }; foo(a => 1, when => 2);
17:23 colomon > rakudobrew build-panda
17:23 camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤  in sub foo at /tmp/kU_owRHqX4:1␤  in block  at /tmp/kU_owRHqX4:1␤␤»
17:23 colomon Missing or wrong version of dependency 'gen/moar/stage2/QRegex.nqp'
17:23 timotimo er, oops :)
17:23 timotimo i was reading that wrong
17:24 vendethiel timotimo: also, no, I don't want () around those :)
17:24 vendethiel I thought you meant in the call
17:24 vendethiel m: my $a = 5; say (:$a).perl; say :$a.perl;
17:24 camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«"a" => 5␤"a" => 5␤»
17:24 vendethiel m: my $a = "something quoted here"; say (:$a).perl; say :$a.perl;
17:24 camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«"a" => "something quoted here"␤"a" => "something quoted here"␤»
17:25 timotimo yay, this just segfaults \o/
17:25 timotimo so i can't really tell if i'm doing it right, but it's gonna be all right
17:28 arnsholt Hehe
17:28 arnsholt When I started programming C I was always dismayed at segfaults
17:29 arnsholt Now I'm usually pretty pleased when things segfault, since they're generally quite straightforward to debug =)
17:29 colomon arnsholt: amen
17:33 raiph https://stripe.com/blog/stripe-open-source-retreat # the one (and only) project I can see that I think matches their grant criteria is libperl-embedded-in-moarvm P5 interop for Rakudo/MoarVM
17:37 flussence joined #perl6
17:38 grondilu updated version of the patch to have NativeCall's tests pass on 32bits:  https://gist.github.com/grondilu/11295465   Here I changed 'int' to an explicit 'int32'.
17:38 guru joined #perl6
17:39 grondilu (the C-files don't need to be modified with this)
17:40 grondilu what I don't get is why 'int' is not a synonym to 'int32' on 32bit systems.  That would make more sense.
17:41 ajr_ gronedilu: 12:34:58 would be the Chinese pianist fix. :-)*
17:41 nwc10 jnthn: what was that about *modern* OSes providing notification of changes to files?
17:42 arnsholt grondilu: Could be a Moar bug, even. It might use Moar's default integer type, which might be 64 bit
17:42 nwc10 jnthn: I think that MacOS Classic did it, and I know that RISC OS did: OMG a value! Do something!
17:42 nwc10 oops
17:42 nwc10 did: https://www.riscosopen.org/wiki/​documentation/show/OS_UpCall%203
17:42 arnsholt grondilu: And that patch'll break the tests on 64-bit systems =)
17:42 nwc10 or arguably "does"
17:42 raiph rakudo debugger bug "Crash when code to highlight includes a completely blank line" (https://github.com/jnthn/r​akudo-debugger/issues/19) now includes my candidate for a fix.
17:46 [Coke] yay, rakudo.jvm daily run should be back to normal today.
17:46 [Coke] It'd be great if someone could open tickets for the few concurrency failures that are still there.
17:47 colomon tadzik: so now build moar appears to work, but build-panda fails
17:47 cognominal joined #perl6
17:48 tadzik how?
17:49 kurahaupo joined #perl6
17:49 colomon Already up-to-date.
17:49 colomon Missing or wrong version of dependency 'gen/moar/stage2/QRegex.nqp'
17:49 colomon hmmm
17:50 colomon okay, build moar "appears to work" is key, the install is still borked
17:52 grondilu arnsholt: could it be line 15 of nqp/MoarVM/src/6model/reprs/P6int.c?  There is a MVMint64 mention that seems quite arbitrary.
17:57 grondilu ah no it seems to be used as such quite a bit so it's more complicated than I thought I guess.
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18:06 masak *sigh* -- no wonder Python people don't have any qualms making fun of Perl. Guido makes Perl the butt of a joke in his PyCon keynote...
18:07 arnsholt grondilu: Actually, I think this might be a problem on all backends
18:07 arnsholt Now that I think about it, it's coming back to me
18:08 arnsholt NativeCall really wants int to correspond to C int, but the rest of Perl 6 often doesn't
18:08 moritz masak: funny enough, $coworker (who is a python dev) complained to me that there are too many options to do OO stuff in python, and he can't learn them all
18:08 moritz multi inheritance, method decorators, class decorators, meta classes, dunno what else
18:09 moritz and often he has trouble finding where stuff is actually implemented
18:10 masak Guido also pleads with the audience to try out Python 3.x, and to please help things forward so that the switch will gradually happen.
18:13 masak "Basically, all the people who can review the patch are already very busy. So the question is how we can grow that core." -- sounds familiar. :)
18:13 btyler masak: the concluding paragraph of the (1600+ page) Programming Python book is a joke at perl's expense. this one: https://www.python.org/doc/humor/​#python-vs-perl-according-to-yoda
18:13 btyler so it seems to be Official Canon
18:15 masak I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the other direction, but... not as much, I would say.
18:15 masak there's something interesting psychologically going on there.
18:15 masak almost as if Python people *need* to say "we're not Perl", but Perl people don't need to say "we're not Python".
18:15 * masak .oO( as to PHP, however... )
18:16 lue hello o/
18:16 yoleaux 17:17Z <raiph> lue: http://blog.gatunka.com/2014/04/25/char​acter-encodings-for-modern-programmers/
18:16 masak hellue \o
18:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: e19395d | coke++ | / (6 files):
18:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:22 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/e19395d3e1
18:22 nwc10 masak: it often seems to me that many Python folks define their identity as "not Perl". Concentrating as much on what they are not as what they are. Which seems a strange way to prioritise things
18:24 masak nwc10: maybe in some way, the seed of that was sown when Guido decided to create Python in the first place, and *already knew about Perl*.
18:25 * grondilu watches Van Rossum's keynote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ef9GudbxXY   First Perl joke at 11'10''
18:25 nwc10 possibly
18:26 grondilu (followed by a round of applause)
18:26 nwc10 I wonder if it also makes it hard, if you define yourself as what you are against, because that thing seems to be bigger/endemic/"the establishment"
18:26 vendethiel Coming back to what I talked about earlier : I literally have a school full of "apprenctice PHP developers"(also c) I'd sure as hell like to do something
18:26 nwc10 and then the empire crumbles
18:26 masak grondilu: that's the one I referred to.
18:27 nwc10 and now what are you rebelling against?
18:27 vendethiel Most of them seem to like web - the other part is apparently fixated on their language, even if they don't always know why - so I'd be glad to have stuff to introduce them to better stuff - may it be perl6 or anything else
18:27 masak oh, there's another one at around 33:23.
18:27 nwc10 "also c" as in "also C" as in that rather useful language for writing fast but subtly insecure code?
18:27 masak a *Perl 6* joke, no less.
18:28 nwc10 where's the stuff about Python 3?
18:28 vendethiel nwc10: "also C" as in, they're also c apprentice devs.
18:28 nwc10 aha.
18:28 masak ok, so at least now we know how to make Guido sleep bad :P
18:29 masak speaking of which...
18:29 vendethiel masak: so, it really was in a pejorative way :)
18:29 grondilu masak: I remember a GVR talk where he mentioned Perl 6 twice in the first five minutes.  I thought that says something, don't know what exactly but it does say something.
18:29 masak ...'night, #perl6
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18:31 vendethiel but tbh, these really seem more like jokes than bashing
18:33 lue I'm not surprised a Pythoner would make jokes :P
18:34 vaskozl masak: night!
18:35 grondilu an other Perl mention at 18:05, but not a joke at all.
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18:39 raydiak lue++: thanks for the idea to put the perl6-bench test code next to the graphs, it definitely beats having to go dig it up yourself
18:40 lue raydiak: I would've been fine if, say, the header for the graph linked to it on github. :) Let me see the site...
18:41 raydiak lue: http://cyberuniverses.com/perl6-bench/ is where I was working on it
18:42 hoelzro_ jnthn++ # awesome slides
18:42 hoelzro I love the inter-commit tool
18:42 lue raydiak: I notice some of them don't have [code] things, such as zero. Is this intentional?
18:44 raydiak lue: a couple of them don't have strings where the test code is kept, so I just skip those ones; haven't investigated
18:44 raydiak the last few have arrays instead of strings, and I think the first one had nothing but don't recall for sure
18:45 lue OK then. I only saw the first test and the last couple of tests were missing them, from a very quick scroll-thru
18:45 raydiak I just saw the test code in a data::dumper output, and used it...didn't pay much mind to where it comes from or where it goes :)
18:45 raydiak those are the only ones
18:45 raydiak so it seems more spotty than it is
18:47 hoelzro holy crap
18:47 hoelzro this GTK thing is even better
18:47 grondilu joined #perl6
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19:13 raiph raydiak++ # making the p6-bench results page so much more useful
19:17 ssutch joined #perl6
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19:35 hoelzro hmm...bailador on perl6-m does *not* care for concurrent requests =/
19:36 kurahaupo joined #perl6
19:37 timotimo hoelzro: it's kinda not easy to make that work in the same codebase as backends that lack these features :(
19:37 hoelzro oh, I know
19:37 hoelzro I'm not blaming =)
19:37 tadzik hoelzro: it wasn't quite designed that way
19:37 timotimo mhm
19:37 tadzik back when I wrote it, concurrency was SF :P
19:37 hoelzro hell, I think it's awesome that I'm getting 40 RPS =)
19:37 tadzik :) nice
19:38 timotimo and as soon as your program does things with data structures that may end up being shared between requests, you'll start cursing :)
19:38 hoelzro I'm thinking of taking an application I wrote in Perl 5 and porting it
19:38 tadzik I could probably make it thread-safe
19:38 hoelzro most of the logic is in angular.js
19:38 timotimo though it may be a nice start to make it use asynchronous sockets?
19:38 hoelzro so this would be a good start
19:38 tadzik the main problem would be that the context object is there all the time, modified on every request
19:39 tadzik to save allocations and all that
19:39 hoelzro is that PSGI-specific, or bailador-specfiic?
19:40 tadzik bailador
19:40 hoelzro maybe you could make it thread-local?
19:40 hoelzro that doesn't help async socks, though =(
19:40 tadzik psgi is not really implementation-bound
19:40 tadzik I think it's orthogonal
19:40 tadzik well, m
19:40 tadzik you probably want workers
19:40 tadzik async sockets themselves don't solve much
19:41 hoelzro well
19:41 timotimo i suppose we really are cpu-bottlenecked due to rakudos inefficiencies here and there
19:41 hoelzro I'm wondering why multiple concurrent requests mess with bailador
19:41 timotimo (and with "here and there" i really mean "everywhere")
19:41 hoelzro because shouldn't it just wait to accept() each client serially?
19:42 hoelzro or maybe there's some concurrency madness going on?
19:42 tadzik hoelzro: because the context object is shared
19:42 tadzik and modified by each and every one of them
19:42 tadzik and it breks it at some point
19:42 hoelzro tadzik: but is bailador handling requests concurrently?
19:43 hoelzro or rather PSGI
19:43 tadzik nonono
19:43 tadzik psgi is nothing about implementation
19:43 tadzik bailador isn't, because when I wrote it, concurrency in p6 was a distant future
19:43 tadzik so there was no need to bother with it at all
19:43 hoelzro maybe I mean HTTP::Easy::PSGI, then
19:43 tadzik maybe
19:51 raydiak fwiw, Pray concurrency branch also crashes under moar...I can't speak to the correctness of that code, don't even recall what it does/how it works atm, but it doesn't crash under jvm
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: 8ec9562 | (Andrew Egeler)++ | src/HLL/CommandLine.nqp:
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: Fix perl6 -pe 'stuff'
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8ec9562c88
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: b596f16 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: bump moar rev for eof fix
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b596f16f9e
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: 47ab859 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/nqp into loop_labels
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/47ab859399
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: 4738218 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels: implement labeled loops and next/redo/last LABEL for nqp itself on moar
20:04 dalek nqp/loop_labels:
20:04 retupmoca http://modules.perl6.org/ seems rather...empty today O.o
20:05 dalek nqp/loop_labels: 851cb6b | (Tobias Leich)++ | t/nqp/8 (2 files):
20:05 dalek nqp/loop_labels: renumber test file because old num was taken
20:05 dalek nqp/loop_labels: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/851cb6b04e
20:06 FROGGS damn, most of the commit msg isnt shown :/
20:06 FROGGS jnthn: so we have loop labels on nqp-m and nqp-p now :o)
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20:16 raydiak heh, so, like retupmoca said, what's up with modules.perl6.org? anyone have access to the error log for the cron job?
20:24 [Coke] raydiak: you can probably grab a copy of the git source and try to build it, maybe you'll see it.
20:24 [Coke] (I just tried, but am not in a position to install mojo5 atm)
20:25 raydiak [Coke]: good idea, trying
20:26 colomon wonder if it's running into the same problem I am with the module smoke results….
20:30 vendethiel do we have a "complicated" URL parser ?
20:31 vendethiel (I mean, able to extract URL parts and such)
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20:46 retupmoca vendethiel: does URI do what you need?
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20:58 vendethiel retupmoca: I don't "need" stuff, I'm looking for stuff to do :p
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21:04 vendethiel retupmoca: no it doesn't
21:05 vendethiel I mean, `extract('/page/5', ('/page/:id'))` would return `:id(5)`
21:07 retupmoca Ah, that kind of extract
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21:07 vendethiel could probably use URI's &segments tho
21:14 dalek modules.perl6.org: e5af4fc | raydiak++ | web/lib/P6Project.pm:
21:14 dalek modules.perl6.org: Allow HTTP redirection
21:14 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/e5af4fc724
21:14 raydiak that should fix it, I think
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21:31 [Coke] raydiak++
21:32 raydiak thanks :)  hope it's actually fixed, can't entirely test due to some github api oauth token thing that I don't entirely understand
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22:20 timotimo what conference was it where jnthn did his talk?
22:23 breinbaas today (friday) he was at NLPW in Utrecht, if that's what you mean
22:24 timotimo that was probably the one i meant
22:24 timotimo the one he gave the reactive programming talk on
22:24 timotimo ah, it's even in the slide filename
22:24 breinbaas yeah, that was today
22:25 timotimo hoping the recording will be up soon :)
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23:09 timotimo i think in order to chill out a bit i shall build a little nibbles in perl 6
23:09 timotimo but not right now, i don't think
23:11 raydiak with 45 degree angles?
23:12 timotimo i was going to build it with ascii art, actually
23:12 timotimo so that wouldn't be very easy to properly do
23:12 raydiak correct
23:13 raydiak hey, you got '/' and '\', right?  good to go...
23:13 timotimo hah
23:13 timotimo yeah, but i was hoping to use half blocks for the graphics
23:13 timotimo and then slashes and backslashes would look very out of place
23:14 raydiak you could include a custom font, and...
23:15 timotimo yeah right :)
23:15 raydiak or...um...you could raytrace each frame :)
23:16 raydiak guess I'm in a nonsensical mood
23:16 timotimo :)
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23:17 BenGoldberg m: for (0x0_0000 .. 0x1_0000) { my $n = uniname $_; say .base(16), " ", $n, " ", .chr, ";" if $n ~~ /<<BLOCK>>/ and $n ~~ /<<LEFT>>/; }
23:17 camelia rakudo-moar 440739: OUTPUT«2589 LEFT SEVEN EIGHTHS BLOCK ▉;␤258A LEFT THREE QUARTERS BLOCK ▊;␤258B LEFT FIVE EIGHTHS BLOCK ▋;␤258C LEFT HALF BLOCK ▌;␤258D LEFT THREE EIGHTHS BLOCK ▍;␤258E LEFT ONE QUARTER BLOCK ▎;␤258F LEFT ONE EIGHTH BLOCK ▏;␤»
23:17 BenGoldberg You can use quarter and eighth blocks for the graphics ;)
23:17 timotimo .o( we can now do that without a timeout! )
23:18 * BenGoldberg blinks
23:18 BenGoldberg yeah, it was faster, wasn't it
23:24 timotimo aren't there supposed to be upper half blocks as well?
23:24 adu joined #perl6
23:26 raydiak .u ▀
23:26 yoleaux U+2580 UPPER HALF BLOCK [So] (▀)
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23:39 timotimo m: say :16<2580>
23:39 camelia rakudo-moar 440739: OUTPUT«9600␤»
23:40 timotimo it's in that range still :\
23:40 timotimo oh, there was an "and $n ** <<LEFT>>" in there

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