Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-04-28

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:28 japhb What copyright do people generally use for talks here?  I was thinking the current international version of cc-by-sa.
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02:55 colomon hmmm
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03:10 colomon tadzik: when rakudobrew's call to rakudo's make install fails with the stupid meaningless copying error at the end, it doesn't call panda rebootstrap like it is supposed to
03:10 colomon looking at the source, I'm not really sure why
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04:15 japhb rakudo-jvm build fail: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/11361622
04:15 japhb Huh, hadn't realized I wasn't logged in on that box.
04:17 japhb That's Oracle 32-bit JDK, shared build tree.  I see a segfault in an earlier file on 64-bit OpenJDK, separate build tree.  But in both cases, starting from fresh trees, NQP seems to build fine, but Rakudo build dies early.
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05:21 FROGGS_ japhb: I am not sure but I think Java(TM) 1.7.0_21 is too old, IIRC a version >= 1.7.0__24 was needed
05:28 raydiak would be nice if configure complained about that
05:29 FROGGS_ true
05:30 FROGGS_ jnthn: might remember the needed version?
05:30 FROGGS_ bbl
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05:48 japhb .tell FROGGS Oh, eww.  Thanks for letting me know.  It seemed strange no one else was hitting it.
05:48 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
05:48 japhb raydiak: Oh, definitely.
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05:52 japhb raydiak: Just in case I haven't mentioned it, thank you for all your contributions to perl6-bench.  Looks like good stuff.  :-)
05:53 raydiak japhb: you're welcome :) will still get back to those details you noticed like the tooltip sticking, too
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07:35 Su-Shee good morning everyone.
07:35 FROGGS morning Su-Shee
07:35 yoleaux 05:48Z <japhb> FROGGS: Oh, eww.  Thanks for letting me know.  It seemed strange no one else was hitting it.
07:35 moritz good morning Su-Shee, *
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08:06 timotimo o/
08:08 FROGGS o/
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09:04 sergot o/
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09:53 * lizmat waits a bit before she can see good localtime afternoon
09:54 lizmat *say
09:54 lizmat grrr....  waking up late is difficult  :-)
09:58 FROGGS :o)
09:58 woolfy it's still early...  ehrm...  not afternoon yet
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10:24 dalek roast: 5967271 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (13 files):
10:24 dalek roast: Add tests for on demand/live state of Supply
10:24 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/596727119d
10:25 jnthn lizmat: Getting up late isn't so hard, but yeah, waking up is another matter :)
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11:04 tadzik colomon: probably because of autodie or something? Hard to sya
11:10 colomon yeah, I was wondering about that.  OH!  p5, not p6.  Right.
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11:26 * lizmat is suffering from a braino while trying to implement Supply.Promise and gives up for now
11:35 jnthn method Promise() { my $l = Lock.new; my $p = Promise.new; my $v = $p.vow; my $t = self.tap(-> \val { $l.protect({ if $p.status == Planned { $v.keep(val);  $t.close() } }); }, done => $v.break("No value received"), quit => -> \ex { ...similar to more code but .break }); $p }
11:40 * lizmat takes it from there, jnthn++
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11:46 timotimo okay, let's see what i ought to mention in this week's report
11:46 jnthn back to teaching :)
11:46 FROGGS I only played around with labels :/
11:46 timotimo well, you implemented them for nqp-m
11:47 timotimo that's good enough to be mentioned :)
11:47 timotimo i should definitely link to jnthn's slides, but sadly the recordings haven't popped up yet
11:49 timotimo loads of supply tests from lizmat and a few implementations as well
11:49 FROGGS yeah, this usually takes a while
11:49 * lizmat is checking on an ETA
11:50 timotimo -p and -pe were fixed, which i should mention
11:50 lizmat timotimo: I seem to recall jnthn implemented some stuff and gave a presentation  :-)
11:50 timotimo yes, i'm definitely going to mention that
11:51 lizmat $ perl6 -e '42.Supply.Promise.result.say'
11:51 lizmat 42
11:51 lizmat jnthn++
11:52 lizmat $ perl6 -e '().Supply.Promise.result.say'
11:52 lizmat No value received
11:52 lizmat :-)
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12:00 tadzik nice! :)
12:00 tadzik lizmat++
12:00 timotimo strawberries :3
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12:08 lizmat no definite ETA on video of NLPW just yet, definitely not this week :-(
12:08 timotimo okay, thank you for asking :)
12:10 timotimo FROGGS: can you quickly describe for me what the problem with moarvm's eof thing was?
12:10 timotimo was it the infinite number of errors when hitting ctrl-d?
12:11 FROGGS timotimo: https://github.com/MoarVM/M​oarVM/commits?author=FROGGS
12:11 FROGGS there were two issues
12:11 FROGGS one about stating a filedescriptor when we have no filename, and the other one was about following symlinks
12:12 timotimo yes, i was wondering how to explain the first one
12:12 FROGGS stat file descriptor in eof() when filename is unset …
12:12 FROGGS This can happen when we get a file redirected, and therefor open it via
12:12 FROGGS MVM_file_handle_from_fd instead of MVM_file_open_fh.
12:12 timotimo i've read that and it doesn't help me too much :)
12:12 FROGGS when we do: perl6-m -e 'say lines' < foo.txt
12:12 timotimo i'd like to describe a "common" symptom
12:12 FROGGS we get a file descriptor only
12:12 timotimo okay, that's exactly what i was looking for :)
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12:15 timotimo anything happening in branches i may not know about?
12:16 FROGGS timotimo: not from my side
12:27 timotimo https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/?p=​150&amp;shareadraft=535e492511fde - feel free to review and suggest additions, i'll be AFK for a bit first
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12:31 dalek rakudo-star-daily: c419461 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
12:31 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
12:31 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/c41946138e
12:31 dalek perl6-roast-data: 911424e | coke++ | / (6 files):
12:31 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
12:31 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/911424e11f
12:31 colomon so, I'm trying to look into the "make: write error" message I get so often from building perl6-m on my MBP.  I just hacked the generated Makefile to test where the error is occuring, and it is *after* the last line of the m-runner-default-install.  As I read it, that's also after m-install runs, so I don't see what could possibly be executing to cause that...
12:36 lizmat colomon: empirically, I only see this error when it needed to recompile any nqp files
12:36 btyler timotimo: perhaps just a little more detail on some of the cool supply-related things?
12:36 [Coke] colomon: when I tried to run make with the debug flag to track that down, *make* started segfaulting.
12:37 [Coke] Someone suggested it had to do with redirecting output.
12:38 colomon segmentation fault duplicated.  sigh
12:38 colomon [Coke]: the segfault or the error message?
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12:40 [Coke] the error message. the segfault makes me think that OS X make is buggy
12:41 [Coke] (and that perhaps that bugginess is the problem, not our build file)
12:41 colomon there certainly are no obvious visible problems with the makefile
12:41 [Coke] I am tempted to install gmake with ports and use that. :|
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12:47 jnthn timotimo: looks good at a quick glance through
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13:07 colomon [Coke]: I'm worried trying to use a different make than perl 5 did will cause a different batch of problems here...
13:08 * colomon already has gmake installed, it turns out....
13:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 1717d57 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
13:09 dalek rakudo/nom: Add Supply.Promise, channeling from jnthn++
13:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1717d57787
13:10 colomon [Coke]: "gmake: write error"
13:12 colomon and it's definitely gmake installed by ports
13:12 colomon and it frakking seg faults in the same place
13:12 [Coke] O_o
13:13 colomon it's definitely a different executable -- it's 3.82 versus 3.81 for make
13:14 * colomon ponders building 4.0 by hand
13:18 lizmat jnthn: from a code simplification perspective, only those methods that have a class in them that "does Supply"
13:18 lizmat jnthn: really need to live in SupplyOperations, but others don't, right ?
13:27 moritz oh, fun. At $work we have a customer database, including a pseudo customer for the company itself, and all infrastructural services are associated with that self-customer
13:27 moritz today, sombody managed to accidentally rename that self-customer
13:28 moritz (before, it was unchanged since its creation 21 years ago)
13:29 moritz "what could possibly go wrong" applies in full measure :-)
13:30 * lizmat is reminded of a "test" hotel located at the head office of Booking
13:30 lizmat that should have always been disabled, but evidently wasn't when guests where starting to show up at the head office asking for their room :-)
13:30 moritz lol
13:32 moritz guess the rooms had interesting prices :-)
13:32 lizmat yup  :-)
13:39 [Coke] perl 6 alert found this: http://cyberuniverses.com/perl6-modules/
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13:42 moritz given that http://cyberuniverses.com/pray/ seems to be raydiak++'s cool rendering project, I'd guess that URL is his sandbox version of modules.perl6.org :-)
13:47 cognominal pray, eat and write code, love   :)
13:49 [Coke] moritz: aye. I'm just happy the google alert found something other than the ir clogs.
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13:55 colomon how do you eat code?
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13:58 dalek specs: 89aa2ca | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
13:58 dalek specs: Spec Supply.(start|schedule-on), channeling jnthn++
13:58 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/89aa2ca8e4
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14:02 colomon [Coke], lizmat: freshly built make 4.0 still gets the write error  :\
14:02 colomon and the segfault
14:02 lizmat but if you do a make install immediately again, it works, no?
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14:03 colomon lizmat: probably
14:04 colomon as far as I can tell, EVERYTHING is successful the first time, the error message comes after the work of the install is 100% complete
14:04 lizmat ah, so it is technically not even needed ?
14:04 colomon as far as I can tell
14:05 colomon the problem is that the error screws up rakudobrew
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14:06 colomon it's hardly a catastrophe, it just makes rakudobrew less awesome on OS X
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14:09 woolfy Pictures of last weekend's Dutch Perl Workshop (with jnthn and lizmat and others): https://www.flickr.com/photos/w​endyga/sets/72157644383486661/
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14:11 lizmat Camelia up to spec: https://www.flickr.com/photos/wendyga​/14026625866/in/set-72157644383486661
14:14 Woodi heja everyone :)
14:14 vendethiel o/, *
14:15 Woodi r: grammar words { token TOP { \w+ % [\h?] }};  say words.parse("abc def ghi");
14:15 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} c15415: OUTPUT«「abc def ghi」␤␤»
14:15 Woodi is that ok >
14:15 Woodi ?
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14:18 jnthn lizmat: yes, that's why they are in SupplyOperations
14:18 lizmat ok, then I'll move the ones that don't need to be there to Supply.pm, ok?
14:18 jnthn wfm, I think
14:18 jnthn but I'm brainfried and will need to help folks debug multi-threaded programs with locks now :)
14:18 FROGGS m: grammar words { token TOP { [$<word>=\w+]+ % [\h?] }};  say words.parse("abc def ghi"); # Woodi: kinda
14:19 camelia rakudo-moar c15415: OUTPUT«「abc def ghi」␤ word => 「abc」␤ word => 「def」␤ word => 「ghi」␤␤»
14:19 lizmat :-)
14:19 Woodi so, ok ? :)
14:21 lizmat jnthn: isn't that whole role problem down to the fact that:
14:21 lizmat m: role A { method a { say $?ROLE } }; A.new.a  # works
14:21 camelia rakudo-moar c15415: OUTPUT«(A)␤»
14:22 lizmat and
14:22 lizmat m: role A { method a { BEGIN say $?ROLE } }; A.new.a  # does not work
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14:22 camelia rakudo-moar c15415: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not instantiate role 'A':␤Cannot invoke this object (REPR: P6opaque, cs = 0)␤»
14:22 lizmat because maybe otherwise you could say someting like:
14:22 lizmat m: role A {  class Foo does $?ROLE {} }
14:22 camelia rakudo-moar c15415: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/HkPYMAkQlCâ�¤Unable to parse class definitionâ�¤at /tmp/HkPYMAkQlC:1â�¤------> [32mrole A {  class Foo does [33mâ��[31m$?ROLE {} }[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤        p…»
14:23 lizmat std: role A {  class Foo does $?ROLE {} }
14:23 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Invalid role name at /tmp/GFZDvD1LVz line 1:â�¤------> [32mrole A {  class Foo does [33mâ��[31m$?ROLE {} }[0mâ�¤    expecting typenameâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:01 122mâ�¤Â»
14:23 jnthn lizmat: um, but classes are built at BEGIN time :)
14:23 jnthn It's a bit more involved than that, though
14:23 lizmat ah, duh, of course
14:23 jnthn It's that you have to invoke the role's body block
14:23 jnthn it's like doing
14:23 jnthn sub foo() { BEGIN foo() } :)
14:23 lizmat gotcha
14:24 jnthn One of those "wish it weren't that way, but one-pass stuff means it likely has to be" things.
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14:28 lizmat one would almost wish for a Promise, that would compile the classes inside the role after the role has been composed
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14:33 jnthn lizmat: I...wha...my head hurts. :P
14:33 lizmat :-)
14:42 moritz role A { ... ; LEAVE { class B does A { ... } } }
14:43 jnthn LEAVE is also runtime :P
14:43 moritz .oO( BEGINLEAVE )
14:43 jnthn You're the first person I've seen declare a class in a LEAVE block, though :P
14:43 lizmat wasn't COMPOSE supposed to do something like this ?
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14:44 lizmat S12:2551
14:44 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html#line_2551
14:44 lizmat no, actually S04:1420
14:44 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S04.html#line_1420
14:45 lizmat and that's also at the wrong time, according to spec  :-)
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14:55 dalek rakudo/nom: 12338e6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Supply (2 files):
14:55 dalek rakudo/nom: Migrate methods from SupplyOperations to Supply
14:55 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:55 dalek rakudo/nom: Many of these are not creating inner classes that "does Supply", so they can
14:55 dalek rakudo/nom: live inside the Supply role proper, thereby eliminating a layer of indirection.
14:55 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/12338e6dc3
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14:58 tadzik hehe, on this pic from NLPW mst looks like a giant: http://i.imgur.com/9qnE814.jpg
14:58 tadzik "what is this? A laptop for ants?"
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15:00 FROGGS he looks like a skinny hagrid, aye :o)
15:03 jnthn well, there's today's class done.
15:05 lizmat jnthn++
15:05 jnthn Nice group. And I like teaching concurrency :)
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15:07 jnthn hotel &
15:07 lizmat and concurrently, as you taught several people on several channels
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15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: e75fd4a | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/SupplyOperations.pm:
15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Esthetics: $s -> $source, :source($s) -> :$source
15:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e75fd4a9ab
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15:19 timotimo post published
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15:20 lizmat timotimo++
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15:27 japhb timotimo: Thank you again for doing p6weekly.  On weeks that I'm caught up, it serves as good reminders; on weeks I'm way behind (like this one) it helps me get a good idea what I've missed.  And you're doing a damn good job of it (I've seen weekly #perl6 summaries come and go, and yours is excellent).
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15:28 FROGGS timotimo++
15:28 japhb timotimo++ # quite
15:29 japhb timotimo: Can you change the stylesheet so that unvisited links are a bit more obvious?  (If it seems obvious now, it may be my color blindness is the issue.)  Sometimes I have to roll over all the text to see what I can click on.
15:30 japhb Checking now, it looks like visited v. unvisited doesn't matter.  They're both very hard for me to see.
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15:36 lizmat m: say 1 ~~ Duration   # wonders how we can make that True
15:36 camelia rakudo-moar 1717d5: OUTPUT«False␤»
15:37 vendethiel m: 1 does Duration; say 1 ~~ Duration; # don't hit me, please
15:37 camelia rakudo-moar 1717d5: OUTPUT«Cannot mix in non-composable type Duration into object of type Int␤  in sub infix:<does> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16755␤  in block  at /tmp/fjICy51Hgd:1␤␤»
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: 165bb97 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/SupplyOperations.pm:
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: Add noop handling to Supply.(stable|delay)
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/165bb97059
15:38 BenGoldberg m: 1 but Duration;
15:38 camelia rakudo-moar 1717d5: OUTPUT«Cannot mix in non-composable type Duration into object of type Int␤  in sub infix:<but> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16782␤  in block  at /tmp/4J0B6Ww1fJ:1␤␤»
15:38 lizmat vendethiel: it's more about subs/methods taking a Duration, and allowing specification like delay(1)
15:39 vendethiel lizmat: I'm just kidding :-)
15:39 BenGoldberg m: say Duration(1)
15:39 camelia rakudo-moar 1717d5: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'Duration'␤  in block  at /tmp/za0oRMS3FN:1␤␤»
15:39 BenGoldberg m: say 1.Duration
15:39 camelia rakudo-moar 1717d5: OUTPUT«No such method 'Duration' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/Kdxm0vflbY:1␤␤»
15:39 BenGoldberg m: say Duration.new(1)
15:39 camelia rakudo-moar 1717d5: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:40 dalek roast: 2db6b29 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/delay.t:
15:40 dalek roast: Add tests for Supply.delay
15:40 dalek roast:
15:40 dalek roast: We seem to have a problem with the ThreadPool scheduler case :-(
15:40 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2db6b29a24
15:41 BenGoldberg If all else fails, make those subs into multisubs, with one version taking Duration, and another version taking Int, wrapping the Int in a Duration, and calling the other version.
15:41 dalek rakudo/nom: 50b69ee | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | t/spectest.data:
15:41 dalek rakudo/nom: Add testing of Supply.delay
15:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/50b69eeabe
15:41 lizmat BenGoldberg: yes, but it feels to me that anything that takes a Duration, should also be taking "1"
15:42 lizmat so making multis is a workaround in my view
15:42 TimToady that is not how type systems work
15:42 yoleaux 27 Apr 2014 17:27Z <raiph> TimToady: is timotimo's approach sufficient to mean no need for non-consuming |args? ^^ http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2014-04-27#i_8644698
15:42 BenGoldberg That's why I said, "If all else fails" ;)
15:43 TimToady how do you know the 1 doesn't mean 1 turtle, or 1 megaparsec, or 1 element in the array?
15:43 BenGoldberg How about have the subs take Duration|Int?
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15:43 TimToady if that's your intent, that's what Duration() is supposed to do
15:44 BenGoldberg The more important thing, I think, is that if there's one version of a sub which takes a duration, and another which takes a epoch time, does an int get turned into a duration or a time?
15:44 TimToady but coercion types are not yet implemented
15:44 TimToady type systems cannot read yourmind
15:45 lizmat S02:1487 seems to indicate that you *are* allowed to just specify a real to a sub
15:45 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_1487
15:46 lizmat I guess this would mean multis in your view, TimToady ?
15:46 lizmat and not some magic that would accept 1 as a Duration?
15:46 TimToady currently, yes, until coercion types like Duration(Real) are implemented
15:47 BenGoldberg How about another solution: Create a small handful of postfix operators, "millisecond", "second", "minute", etc, which take Ints and return Durations, so that a person can pass "1 second" to a sub which wants a duration.
15:47 timotimo japhb, raiph, thank you :)
15:47 lizmat BenGoldberg: this was actually discussed at the NLPW  :-)
15:47 timotimo unfortunately i don't have access to the stylesheet, i'd have to either pay $bignum money, set up my own wordpress (and expose my server to oodles of attacks) or change the theme completely
15:47 lizmat but I'm not sure how TimToady would feel about that
15:49 TimToady 1\mille\second
15:50 timotimo raiph, japhb: i changed to a different theme that ought to be a bit more readable
15:53 lizmat m: say 2i; say 2 i'
15:53 camelia rakudo-moar 12338e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/KWc7hOIxHBâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/KWc7hOIxHB:1â�¤------> [32msay 2i; say 2 [33mâ��[31mi'[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infi…»
15:53 lizmat m: say 2i'
15:53 camelia rakudo-moar 12338e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/vNclXmCgNmâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/vNclXmCgNm:1â�¤------> [32msay 2i[33mâ��[31m'[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤     …»
15:54 lizmat so why is "2 i" TTIAR?   is that a rakudobug?
15:58 FROGGS lizmat: remove that single quote
15:58 FROGGS bbiab
15:59 moritz m: say 2 i
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 12338e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/1NS8ddxDmrâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/1NS8ddxDmr:1â�¤------> [32msay 2 [33mâ��[31mi[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤     …»
15:59 moritz m: say (my $) ++
15:59 camelia rakudo-moar 12338e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/UIGLtPKLgZ�Unsupported use of $) variable; in Perl 6 please use $*EGID�at /tmp/UIGLtPKLgZ:1�------> [32msay (my $)[33m�[31m ++[0m�»
15:59 moritz my: say $_ ++
15:59 moritz m: say $_ ++
16:00 camelia rakudo-moar 12338e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/9MWkQtzQ_eâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/9MWkQtzQ_e:1â�¤------> [32msay $_ ++[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infix…»
16:00 lizmat ok, gotcha  :-)
16:00 moritz lizmat: no whitespace allowed between term and postfix
16:00 lizmat make sense if you're a little more awake  :-)
16:08 dalek rakudo/nom: 3f74909 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Supply (2 files):
16:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Supply.schedule_on -> schedule-on (Perl6ish++)
16:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3f7490917b
16:09 lizmat jnthn: ^^^  this probably breaks your presentation
16:09 BenGoldberg m: say (my $ )++
16:09 camelia rakudo-moar 12338e: OUTPUT«0␤»
16:10 * vendethiel would really like a `use noperl5` :(
16:10 moritz std: say (my $)++
16:10 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 126m␤»
16:11 BenGoldberg r: say 2i
16:11 camelia rakudo-jvm 12338e: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
16:11 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 12338e: OUTPUT«0+2i␤»
16:12 * BenGoldberg attempts to apply boot to jakudo's rear end.
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16:21 jnthn lizmat: I...don't know if I like htat.
16:21 jnthn *that
16:22 jnthn We've tended not to use - in setting methods...
16:23 FROGGS m: say 2\ i
16:23 camelia rakudo-moar 12338e: OUTPUT«0+2i␤»
16:23 japhb jnthn: Just read your 2014-nlpw-reactive talk (thanks timotimo++ for linking to it).  It's really impressive, even for you.  Halfway through I was getting ready to ask you if I could adapt some of the examples for the "make the hard things possible" section of my talk-in-progress.  By the end, I was thinking "Now I'm going to have to find a new hard thing, because this makes hard things *easy*."
16:25 japhb Speaking of which ... what is the license on example code from your talks?
16:25 jnthn japhb: Well, they're the things that sound easy until you try to do them.
16:25 jnthn japhb: And most ways to do them hurt.]
16:25 japhb True.  :-/
16:26 jnthn I don't think "wait for this to be unchanged for a second" is a hard concept.
16:26 jnthn If you don't a non-programmer about it, they'd probably grok it rather quickly and then wonder why it's a big deal :)
16:27 jnthn s/don't/told/
16:27 japhb True, but for an at least somewhat experienced programmer, the mind reels.
16:27 jnthn The code...hm, this talk actually resulted in a suffcient amount that it probably does want a license rather than just "fair use" :)
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16:31 jnthn japhb: https://github.com/jnthn/perl6-reactive-samples now has a license.
16:32 jnthn Lemme know if you need anything more than that.
16:32 japhb Nah, that's good.
16:32 jnthn k :)
16:32 jnthn Have fun :)
16:32 japhb Thx
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16:33 jnthn lizmat: On the Duration thing - I think multi candidates that take them and delegate to the number-taking ones make sense.
16:34 jnthn Hm, I think that suggestion agrees with what TimToady said... :)
16:40 colomon lizmat++ # passed me on her number of commits to rakudo!
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16:43 japhb jnthn: Do you happen to know why r-j requires a newer JDK than 1.7.0_21 to build?  What bug are we triggering?
16:44 woolfy (lizmat is 'afk' for the moment)
16:45 colomon woolfy: give her a hug from me.
16:46 woolfy colomon: will do
16:47 jnthn japhb: Hm, I boild on 1.7.0_21 at home, I *think*. Or maybe it's one later.
16:47 colomon so… if I run make in valgrind, no memory errors detected, no error message from make, and everything appears to have worked correctly.  (this on OS X)
16:47 colomon woolfy++
16:47 jnthn japhb: But it basically boils down to, "invokedynamic sucks on earlier JVMs", typically. :(
16:51 BenGoldberg Is there any workaround for lack of working invokedynamic?  Even a horribly slow (but correctly functioning) workaround might be acceptable, if only to show that it's doable.
16:52 jnthn BenGoldberg: The "workaround" is to use a new enough JVM.
16:53 jnthn BenGoldberg: We're onto JDK8 now, and discussing problems in >20-update old JDK7.
16:53 jnthn BenGoldberg: I'm inclined to let time solve us this one. :)
16:53 jnthn Given we don't exactly have an epic abundance of resources.
16:53 raiph timotimo++ # weekly news and switch to theme that makes links pop
16:53 BenGoldberg Fair enough :)
16:55 jnthn Granted it's annoying that the old ones may be what's packaged, but givne that Java 8 seems to have some stuff that might make me find the language tolerable, I hope 8 will be swiftly packaged and upgraded to :)
16:55 dalek specs: 4a114b7 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
16:55 dalek specs: s/schedule-on/schedule_on
16:55 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/4a114b7c27
16:56 jnthn Phew, now we're back to is-prime being the only exception I can remember I have to remember ;)
16:56 dalek rakudo/nom: ab7b1fe | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Supply (2 files):
16:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Revert "Supply.schedule_on -> schedule-on (Perl6ish++)"
16:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ab7b1fed8b
16:57 lizmat :-)
16:57 lizmat cycling&
16:57 jnthn enjoy :)
16:57 tadzik hmm, why don't we like schedule-on?
16:57 japhb Why _?
16:57 japhb jinx
16:59 jnthn japhb: There's nothing else anywhere in the concurrency stuff that I know of that uses - over _, so it'd be a bit of a surprise to find an odd one out..
17:00 japhb Oh sure, I meant in the larger sense of "Why should we choose _ over - anywhere in the standard sub/method names?"
17:01 jnthn japhb: Ah. I was mostly just going for consistency with things we already have more than having any particular preference.
17:01 woolfy colomon++  :  hug done  :-)
17:02 colomon woolfy: thank you.  :)
17:09 molaf joined #perl6
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17:22 jnthn dinner &
17:26 [Coke] I would tend to prefer - over _ but have no desire to go through that deprecation phase.
17:29 TimToady .oO("We can't fix that--we already have five users!")
17:30 [Coke] Didn't say shouldn't, said I didn't want to. :)
17:31 rurban joined #perl6
17:31 * TimToady didn't say anything at all
17:31 japhb At least now we have a nice way to deprecate, notify users, and still keep things working.
17:34 [Coke] japhb: aye, definitely doable.
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18:10 dalek nqp/loop_labels: e76f290 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
18:10 dalek nqp/loop_labels: replace op throwlabel by throwdyn for labels
18:10 dalek nqp/loop_labels: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e76f290d77
18:11 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: ed78569 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/ (4 files):
18:11 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: test for supporting loop labels
18:11 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ed78569122
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18:33 Rotwang joined #perl6
18:33 Rotwang druga transza tez przyszla?
18:34 anaeem1 joined #perl6
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18:37 anaeem1 joined #perl6
18:46 eiro joined #perl6
18:47 * masak .oO( waiting for the druga transza to drop... )
18:51 nwc10 Google Translate was unable to make sense of Rotwang's line form e
18:51 nwc10 me
18:58 Rotwang wrong window, heh [;
18:59 FROGGS Rotwang: so you are selling drugs on the other window?
18:59 masak nwc10: oh? it gave me something like "is a second instalment on the way?"
19:00 jnthn I can deal with z after s just fine. After c and d is ok too. But after r? :D
19:00 nwc10 masak: yes, strange, for me it wouldn't translate druga
19:01 * jnthn guesses it's either "other", "second", or some case declension of "friend" :)
19:01 masak jnthn: it's just a /ʐ/
19:01 jnthn Also I guess rz may be like the Czech ř, but I never learned how to say that...
19:01 jnthn masak: Oh...
19:01 masak jnthn: you probably know it as ż
19:01 jnthn aha :)
19:02 masak or, hm, ř
19:02 jnthn I'm a dire critic of writing that "rz" :P
19:02 masak :P
19:02 masak as long as you don't pronounce it with an acute accent, it's fine...
19:02 FROGGS that seems to be the right moment to *groan*
19:03 masak *gřoan*
19:03 jnthn Seems I've made my mark... :)
19:03 nwc10 caron everyone, like nothing happened...
19:04 FROGGS nwc10: btw, somehow I can't build moar with clang :/
19:04 nwc10 oh mmm, odd. I've not tried that
19:04 nwc10 mmm, "my" machine has clang version 3.0 (tags/RELEASE_30/final)
19:04 FROGGS perl Configure.pl --compiler=clang
19:04 FROGGS Configuring native build environment ................... OK
19:04 FROGGS probing whether your compiler thinks that it is gcc  Can't compile simple gcc probe, so something is badly wrong at build/probe.pm line 92.
19:04 * jnthn burries the háček
19:05 FROGGS Debian clang version 3.2-7ubuntu1 (tags/RELEASE_32/final) (based on LLVM 3.2)
19:06 * masak .oO( MJD burritos the monad )
19:06 nwc10 FROGGS: I don't know if there's a good way to diagnose that, other than removing the  >$devnull 2>&1 from build/probe.pm
19:07 FROGGS In file included from try.c:1:
19:07 FROGGS /usr/include/stdlib.h:32:10: fatal error: 'stddef.h' file not found
19:08 FROGGS ahh, so clang has not the right include paths built in?
19:13 nwc10 no good idea, but that seems to be a particularly impressive error
19:15 FROGGS *g*
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19:22 raydiak * *, * o/
19:23 vendethiel do you speak smurf, raydiak?
19:24 raydiak *!
19:24 raydiak erm, good afternoon, that is :)
19:25 FROGGS nwc10: adding -I/usr/lib/llvm-3.2/lib/clang/3.2/include seems to help
19:25 raydiak jnthn: do you know the exact minimum required java version for nqp and rakudo on jvm?
19:25 masak m: sub term:<*> { "smurf" }; say *
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar ab7b1f: OUTPUT«*␤»
19:25 masak dang.
19:25 vendethiel welp.
19:25 vendethiel that's a bit surprising
19:25 colomon m: say *
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar ab7b1f: OUTPUT«*␤»
19:26 vendethiel that's a bit *less* surprising now
19:26 masak any reason I can't override *?
19:26 vendethiel m: sub term:<+> { "smurf" }; say +
19:26 camelia rakudo-moar ab7b1f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Zb6DKCSMbuâ�¤Confusedâ�¤at /tmp/Zb6DKCSMbu:1â�¤------> [32msub term:<+> { "smurf" }; say +[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        p…»
19:26 vendethiel I guess it has to exist
19:26 masak aww.
19:27 masak vendethiel: never heard of such a rule.
19:27 vendethiel "technically has to"
19:29 raiph A 'use Grammar::Generative' (copy of https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jnthn/grammar​-generative/master/lib/Grammar/Generative.pm6) gets me a "Merging GLOBAL symbols failed: duplicate definition of symbol &EXPORT". FROGGS, jnthn, anyone, know what I need to do?
19:32 FROGGS raiph: can you strip the 'our' of the 'our sub EXPORT'? does that help
19:32 FROGGS ?
19:33 * jnthn confuses raydiak's greeting with a crontab
19:33 molaf_ joined #perl6
19:34 jnthn raydiak: No, I don't know the exact minimum. I know 7.0.21 or so at home works...and I had "fun" with things below that.
19:34 raydiak jnthn: just thought it'd be nice if configure checked the java version
19:35 jnthn raiph: Whoa, I thought that module caused blindness to all who looked... :)
19:36 jnthn Agree with FROGGS though, the "our" is probably bad.
19:36 raiph FROGGS++ # yet another of your many fixes in one guess, thanks :)
19:36 FROGGS \o/
19:37 jnthn whoa, that code...
19:39 raiph jnthn: i'm having a lot of fun working with grammars and the debugger :)
19:41 jnthn The mutiple mutually recursive use of gather/take. The fact that the only comment in the most hundred lines of it is "# Bit of a cheat...". A variable named $submatchish. A class called "grammar". And mixing in to the importing language's actions.
19:41 jnthn *most complicated
19:42 jnthn I either should or shouldn't be allowed to write code when suffering depression :P
19:42 masak ...mutually recursive...? o.O
19:42 vendethiel .oO(mutually depressive)
19:43 FROGGS hehe
19:45 jnthn masak: method compile, in class Generator
19:47 jnthn The one-line implementation of co-LTM is also somewhat entertaining :)
19:47 jnthn .take for @possibles.sort(-*.chars);
19:48 masak :)
19:49 masak that's so co!
19:49 * [Coke] hugs jnthn++
19:50 * masak hugs jnthn++
19:50 jnthn [Coke]: Well, I wrote it quite a lot of months ago. I'm kinda better these days. :)
19:50 jnthn On average, at least.
19:52 Mouq joined #perl6
19:53 jnthn Mouq! \o/
19:53 masak Mouq! \o/
19:54 igorsutton joined #perl6
19:55 masak igorsutton: greetings.
19:55 igorsutton masak:hi
19:57 masak ...earthling.
19:57 masak :/
19:58 raiph FROGGS: I'm considering options for the output of the CPAN/MIRRORED_BY parse
19:58 jnthn .oO( Playing the role of channel alien: the leading way to make folks feel welcome! )
19:58 FROGGS raiph: what options?
19:59 raiph FROGGS: raw parse tree? some cleaner data structure? JSON?
19:59 masak jnthn: I didn't mean to alienate him!
20:00 raiph FROGGS: also, you presumably want just the subset of mirrors that have P6 code on them
20:01 raiph FROGGS: and presumably the idea is that MIRROR_BY includes the metadata to indicate that
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20:02 FROGGS raiph: this file just needs to be turned into a list or hashes or so, we will not gain the knowledge what mirrors do provide P6 stuff in future
20:02 FROGGS raiph: I do not think we can change the information of MIRRORED.BY at all
20:04 FROGGS raiph: it really is about parsing the given file, not to create the file with information we'd like to have in there
20:11 raydiak raiph: I roughed out a crude version for fun, dunno if it's any use but figured I'd share: https://gist.github.com/raydiak/11382643
20:14 raiph FROGGS: I realize it's just about parsing, not changing it
20:15 FROGGS raiph: exactly, we get this file from servers of the cpan network
20:15 FROGGS and since we want to connect to them, we need to know what mirrors are there, to let the user pick nearest neighbours
20:17 raiph FROGGS: I was assuming at least one of the 250+ mirrors would choose to not mirror P6 stuff
20:18 FROGGS raiph: that might be possible that they set up their rsync to drop /Perl6/, but there is no intention to write that down to that file
20:18 FROGGS so we won't know
20:24 lizmat let's not assume /Perl6/ is dropped
20:24 lizmat it would require action from the mirror admins
20:24 lizmat and most mirrors are really low maintenance afaik
20:24 FROGGS lizmat: yes, I also assume that they do not really care what is in the tar.gz, and therefore not actively blocck Perl6
20:25 FROGGS because, there is no reason to do so, it is not like we will upload terrabytes of dists soon
20:26 FROGGS that reminds me that I'm still waiting for a reply from andk :/
20:29 igorsutton joined #perl6
20:29 raiph FROGGS: your simple version will inevitably be faster than the code I've created
20:30 raiph (a grammar, and warnings about syntax changes, so takes order of a second to run)
20:30 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
20:31 woolfy I mention to lizmat that a new neighbour to the sun is discovered: a brown dwarf, the coldest star sofar ever discovered, at 7,2 lightyears distance...  her reaction: "cool"   (  http://www.iflscience.com/space/coldest​-known-star-discovered-close-our-system )
20:32 dmol joined #perl6
20:34 BenGoldberg One of these days, scientists will rename Saturn from being a planet to being some some sort of dwarf start -- that'll be really close ;)
20:37 Alula_ joined #perl6
20:37 dalek specs: 85d112f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
20:37 dalek specs: Spec List.(grep-index|first-index|first-rindex)
20:37 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/85d112f4aa
20:40 geekosaur unlikely, although it's still an open question whether what they found is brown dwarf or planet
20:42 geekosaur (the cutoff is something like 13x Jupiter's mass; unless we find some really wild physics somewhere that will rewrite a lot more than just the definition of planet, it's unlikely to shrink)
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20:57 dalek roast: 73c090c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | packages/Test/Tap.pm:
20:57 dalek roast: Spaceo in conditional text
20:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/73c090ca0a
20:57 dalek roast: f3f563b | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/stable.t:
20:57 dalek roast: Add simple tests for Supply.stable
20:57 dalek roast:
20:57 dalek roast: Unfortunately, some of them fail, so there is more work to be done
20:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f3f563ba95
20:58 lizmat jnthn: ^^^ seems there is something wrong in Supply.stable, and its derivative Supply.delay
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21:06 jnthn .oO( stability is integral to delay... )
21:07 jnthn lizmat: What fails, exactly?
21:07 jnthn I'm...uh...a bit surprised to see that being tested on currentthreadscheduler
21:07 lizmat the timing related things
21:08 lizmat feels like the timer is not started
21:08 lizmat well, delay and stable are the first ones that fail with CurrentThreadScheduler
21:08 lizmat so maybe I shouldn't test with that scheduler in those tests ?
21:09 lizmat actually, delay *works* with CurrentThreadScheduler
21:09 jnthn Does CurrentThreadScheduler know what to do with :in and :every?
21:09 jnthn if it does, I suspect it may immediately block
21:10 lizmat but it's the ThreadPoolScheduler case I'm worried about really
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21:16 japhb How does one resolve links (., .., and soft links) in a path?  I'm finding that when I call a script with an up-and-over path like '../tools/foo', and then try to manipulate $PROGRAM_NAME.path to e.g. find the project root, I get insane responses.  And .absolute, .cleanup, IO::Spec.canonpath, etc. don't fix it.
21:17 dayangkun joined #perl6
21:17 masak japhb: I have a feeling you're in "no-ones ever tried that" territory.
21:17 masak no-one's
21:17 masak *
21:17 japhb D'oh!
21:38 lizmat r: my @list = (1..10); my @result = grep-index {$_ % 2}, @list; say @result
21:38 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} ab7b1f: OUTPUT«9 9 9 9 9␤»
21:38 lizmat r: my @list = (1..10); say grep-index {$_ % 2}, @list;
21:38 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} ab7b1f: OUTPUT«0 2 4 6 8␤»
21:38 lizmat jnthn: ^^^ feels like a bug to me
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21:41 lizmat when storing into an array, it is by reference apparently (the highest value of the index)
21:41 lizmat otherwise it is by value
21:41 lizmat perhaps some optimization kicking in when it shouldn't?
21:42 masak yes, that feels like a bug.
21:42 geekosaur (when you store into the array, the array stores also into you?)
21:42 masak you can't step down into the same array twice.
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21:43 jnthn lizmat: Looks like a bug, but I wonder what it's in...
21:43 jnthn grep-index is the new thing...
21:43 lizmat fixed by prefixing a +
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21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 3a69624 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Any.pm:
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: Make grep-index work when returning into an array
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: This feels like a work around for some obscure scoping issue.
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3a69624db6
21:47 dalek roast: 5f2eb65 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-list/grep-index.t:
21:47 dalek roast: Add tests for grep-index
21:47 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5f2eb65c9c
21:48 jnthn lizmat: Will have to look at the two tomorrow...
21:48 lizmat ok
21:48 lizmat about to sleep& myself as well  :-)
21:48 jnthn Tired now...had to hack up some web cache stuffs for make smooth tomorrow's exercises :)
21:53 dalek rakudo/nom: dfd343d | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | t/spectest.data:
21:53 dalek rakudo/nom: Add Supply.stable and grep-index tests
21:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dfd343de64
21:54 lizmat and with that I have nothing further to commit today
21:54 lizmat gnight, #perl6!
21:54 jnthn 'night, lizmat++
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21:58 masak 'night, lizmat++
22:05 timotimo i wonder fi $index += 1 would change the behavior
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22:19 raiph m: my @a = ^1000; sub foo ($a) { for @a.kv -> $l, $p { if $p > $a { return } } }; foo(1000); say now - INIT now
22:19 camelia rakudo-moar ab7b1f: OUTPUT«0.36347707␤»
22:21 jnthn 'night, #perl6
22:21 timotimo gnite jnthn!
22:21 timotimo good luck with your teachings tomorrow :)
22:21 timotimo raiph: wow, for a loop that just does 1k iterations, that's pretty slow :\
22:22 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: a08ae07 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/ (2 files):
22:22 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: add method Label.gist, .redo and .next
22:22 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test:
22:22 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: Label.gist looks like this (with colors):
22:22 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: perl6-m -e 'my $x; my $y; BAR: while $x++ < 2 { }; say BAR'
22:22 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: Label<BAR>(at -e:1, 'my $x; my $y; ⏏BAR:while $x++ < 2 { };')
22:22 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a08ae07e65
22:23 FROGGS gnight jnthn
22:23 FROGGS and gnight #perl6 (again)
22:23 timotimo wow
22:23 timotimo gnite froggs :)
22:23 FROGGS :o)
22:23 raiph \o jnthn, FROGGS
22:26 raiph timotimo: didn't mean that to be in channel, but running a 200 line program under the debugger runs 100X slower with a breakpoint on line 1
22:26 raiph and it's the line_of sub which is basically the loop I was testing
22:26 timotimo line_of should be cached, no?
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22:28 raiph i don't yet think a cache is what's needed
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22:28 masak 'night, #perl6
22:29 timotimo i may be thinking of something else
22:30 * timotimo is heading to bed as well
22:30 timotimo or am i headed to a bad-ass well?
22:30 timotimo i can't decipher this handwriting!
22:33 raiph good night departing p6ers
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