Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-04-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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03:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: 5bdffcb | coke++ | / (6 files):
03:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
03:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/5bdffcbd99
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05:08 Mouq In progress: http://mouq.github.io/perl6-feast/
05:10 Mouq (This version also seems to run much faster than the old one)
05:12 Mouq My hope is that where it says "(N skipped)" etc., I'd like to actually have the descriptions followed by the code of the actual tests being skipped
05:13 Mouq And, as always, feel free to PR :)
05:15 Mouq (Er, the actual repo is at https://github.com/Mouq/perl6-feast . I should probably link to it from the page)
05:17 pat_js hey I haven't been around lately is panda still the preferred application for installing perl6 modules?
05:17 Mouq pat_js: Yup
05:17 pat_js thanks Mouq++
05:17 Mouq np :)
05:21 pat_js do you, by any chance, know which branch is working with an rakudo from yesterday? master doesn't seem to work
05:21 Mouq nom?
05:21 Mouq I'm not sure what you mean
05:22 Mouq The "master" branch for rakudo is nom
05:22 Mouq And then nqp/parrot/moarvm's master branches are actually master
05:23 Mouq Or are you saying the latest Rakudo isn't compiling?
05:23 pat_js panda's bootstrap.pm has errors.
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05:24 Mouq pat_js: Try rebootstrap.p6
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05:33 FROGGS_ pat_js: panda was working for me yesterday, I installed latest rakudo and cloned panda on an ubuntu 14.04 box for testing
05:34 pat_js hmm I get an error that $*EXECUTABLE is not defined. I looked it up and it indeed should be $*EXECUTABLE_NAME
05:34 tadzik ( ° ー°)
05:34 Mouq pat_js: Then you're using an old Perl6 with a new Panda
05:35 tadzik you can checkout 2693bbc536bb02930a1a2ba38fcd2f194f748b48
05:35 tadzik r: say $*EXECUTABLE
05:35 camelia rakudo-jvm dfd343: OUTPUT«IO::Path</home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/bin/perl6-j>␤»
05:35 camelia ..rakudo-moar dfd343: OUTPUT«IO::Path</home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-1/bin/perl6-m>␤»
05:35 camelia ..rakudo-parrot dfd343: OUTPUT«IO::Path</home/p6eval/rakudo-inst/bin/perl6-p>␤»
05:37 pat_js yeah i see it now. I thought I had it updated this weekend but I still have some version from last November.
05:37 pat_js sorry, my bad.
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05:40 tadzik I should probably tag panda, depending on how new $*EXECUTABLE is
05:40 tadzik so one can easily checkout the version that works on their older rakudos
05:40 tadzik I sometimes remember to do that before breaking changes :)
05:42 Mouq pat_js: No sweat :)
05:42 * Mouq out
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06:52 jnthn morning, #perl6
06:53 raydiak morning jnthn
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06:53 * jnthn slurps coffee
06:56 moritz \o
06:56 moritz jnthn: are you still planning to do the R* release this month?
06:56 raydiak o/
06:58 sergot o/
06:59 FROGGS morning
06:59 jnthn moritz: Yes, though don't have a lot of free time until Thursday, which is not this month any more :/
07:00 moritz ah well, a day or two won't kill anybody
07:00 FROGGS could be a new tradition to do it on the 1st :o)
07:01 jnthn Will see if I have a little time tonight after teaching.
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07:13 igorsutton hi
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07:14 moritz hello igorsutton
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07:30 lizmat good * moritz igorsutton and the rest of #perl6
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07:36 raydiak g'night #perl6
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10:22 * Ulti notices just how many lurkers there are
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10:27 lizmat and then we don't even know how many people lurk on the irclogs
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10:35 nwc10 Hello to all my friends and fans in domestic surveillanc
10:35 nwc10 oops
10:35 nwc10 Hello to all my friends and fans in domestic surveillance
10:36 Ulti lizmat well you can probably guess from IP and get requests
10:36 Ulti might be a neat addition to the log website
10:37 Ulti nwc10 highly unlikely they are keeping an eye on #perl6 unless we say BOMB NSA GCHQ TERROR ATTACK NUKE woops...
10:39 jercos proposal: reverse the operand order of %%, rename it to "gozinta"
10:39 jnthn We could just reverse the chars in the operator...
10:41 * nwc10 worries that this is the start of LOLMOAR
10:41 lizmat .oO( bazinga! )
10:41 jercos r: sub infix:<gozinta>($a, $b) {$b %% $a};say 7 gozinta 14
10:41 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} dfd343: OUTPUT«True␤»
10:41 jnthn I actually just serached for a Unicode char that is a backwards % sign :P
10:41 jercos r: sub infix:<gozinta>($a, $b) {$b %% $a};say 5 gozinta 14
10:41 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} dfd343: OUTPUT«False␤»
10:42 jnthn jercos: Note you can already spell it R%%
10:42 nwc10 is there lolcode for a current (enough) NQP toolchain?
10:42 jercos True enough. meta-ops <3
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11:01 dalek roast: fb627e3 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-list/first-index.t:
11:01 dalek roast: Add tests for first-index
11:01 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fb627e39ce
11:07 dalek roast: 3fa50a0 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-list/first-rindex.t:
11:07 dalek roast: Add tests for first-rindex
11:07 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3fa50a095e
11:13 dalek rakudo/nom: c9f2239 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | t/spectest.data:
11:13 dalek rakudo/nom: Add tests for first-(r)index to spectest
11:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c9f22398c4
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12:01 timotimo m: my &infix:<gozinta> = &[R%%]; say 5 gozinta 15
12:01 camelia rakudo-moar dfd343: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/1Z_S9wLKcvâ�¤Variable '&infix:<R%%>' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/1Z_S9wLKcv:1â�¤------> [32mmy &infix:<gozinta> = &[R%%][33mâ��[31m; say 5 gozinta 15[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
12:02 timotimo :(
12:06 lizmat jnthn: wrt to S17-supply/delay.t tests: I think something goes wrong internally and the error is not seen
12:06 lizmat the tap gets a "done" too soon, before it can even schedule
12:07 lizmat (this using ThreadPoolScheduler, CurrentThreadScheduler works fine)
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12:09 dalek roast: 8ea1475 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | packages/Test/Tap.pm:
12:09 dalek roast: Added ":more" and ":done" feature to tap_ok
12:09 dalek roast:
12:09 dalek roast: Mostly useful for debugging tests, I would think.
12:09 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8ea14754ef
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12:26 jnthn lizmat: Hmm...does the done get delayed too?
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12:33 lizmat yes
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12:51 lizmat jnthn: could it have to do with on-demandness of the Supply ?
12:53 jnthn Don't think so...but maybe
12:54 jnthn Need to teach...so I'll just make a pun about supply and demand and bbl :)
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12:57 lizmat hehe... the plot thickens though, as it seems that the done is not delayed  :-(
13:06 lizmat jnthn: could it be that I need to delay a closing as well?
13:08 dalek roast: cead30e | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/delay.t:
13:08 dalek roast: Some more Supply.delay testing
13:08 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/cead30e59e
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13:35 lizmat afk for a while&
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14:59 hoelzro morning #perl6
15:00 hoelzro timotimo: I have wonderful news for you
15:00 hoelzro I have had this one bug in an application since January that's been on the top of my OSS priority list
15:00 hoelzro and last night I fixed it =)
15:00 hoelzro so guess what's next on the heap?
15:00 colomon hoelzro++
15:01 timotimo \o/
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15:01 timotimo that sounds like i'm going to be enjoying your contributions in the near future :)
15:01 hoelzro in other news, reading all of these posts/talks about supplies just makes me think of Starcraft
15:02 hoelzro indeed!
15:02 timotimo you must construct additional pylons
15:02 hoelzro use Supply::Depot;
15:02 timotimo :3
15:03 hoelzro I offer up that namespace to whomever puts it to good use =)
15:04 timotimo i don't have a good idea as of yet
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15:07 jnthn hotel &
15:08 jnthn (btw, a gaming application of supplies would be awesome! :D)
15:09 tadzik I could probably find some :)
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15:44 * timotimo finally gets a fresh linux onto his desktop
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15:49 * TimToady has been working on that too; installed ubuntu 14.04 on a new partition, but have to copy over a bunch of conf files before really switching...
15:50 TimToady (upgrade in place didn't work for some reason)
15:51 timotimo i've killed the contents of a relatively fresh hard drive and put a fedora onto it
15:52 timotimo i expected the installer to find my old linux again and make it available on the boot menu
15:52 timotimo turns out ... no :)
15:52 * jnthn just sticks Linux in a VM :)
15:52 TimToady well, fdisk should tell you if the old partition is still there
15:53 timotimo i'm pretty certain they are
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15:53 TimToady good time to learn the "mount" command then :)
15:53 timotimo the installer showed a summary of partitioning actions it'd do and changing my sda wasn't on that list :)
15:53 FROGGS I use a linux cd/dvd/stick and then usually gpart to repair disks
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15:53 timotimo fortunately i've been using gentoo for a couple years some time ago, so i kind of know what i'm doing :)
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15:58 masak hi from... a train! \o
15:58 timotimo heyo masak :)
15:59 TimToady hopefully a train of thoughts
15:59 jnthn masak: have a raily good journey!
15:59 * TimToady clacks at jnthn
16:01 timotimo now i'll have a system with btrfs, yay
16:03 itz is the czech workshop really on Tue/Wed? or is my calender old
16:04 jnthn It's really a tue/wed
16:04 lizmat yup
16:07 lizmat m: sub term:<1min>() { Duration.new(60) }; say 1min
16:07 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«60␤»
16:07 lizmat however, if I put this in the settings, I get:
16:08 lizmat $ perl6 -e 'say 1min'
16:08 lizmat ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling -e
16:08 lizmat Confused
16:08 lizmat at -e:1
16:08 lizmat ------> say 1⏏min
16:08 lizmat expecting any of:
16:08 lizmat whitespace
16:08 lizmat suggestions?
16:08 jnthn lizmat: Also need to define it in Grammar.pm
16:08 jnthn uh, .nqp
16:08 lizmat +    token postfix:sym<1min>  { <sym> >> <O('%methodcall')> }
16:08 lizmat like that?
16:08 lizmat oops
16:09 jnthn no, as a term, I think.
16:09 lizmat ack
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16:12 * TimToady thinks combining numbers and letters like that is a Really Bad Idea
16:12 lizmat ok, I'll take that as a veto then  :-)
16:13 FROGGS I hope it is not too l8 for a veto :o)
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16:14 lizmat TimToady: could you elaborate on why?  Just for my understanding...
16:15 TimToady it seems to be confusing the concepts of term and postfix, and be a low-luminance feature
16:15 TimToady why not make a postfix "min" that can operate on a 1
16:15 lizmat TimToady: this was my diff: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/11404980
16:15 TimToady assuming one wants to introduce units into the setting, which is problematic
16:16 timotimo a "minutes" and "seconds" method for numbers? :)
16:16 lizmat so you could say: 1min or 2mins
16:16 TimToady a postfix is not necessarily a method
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16:16 timotimo well, it could be a method; that'd make it more discoverable, too
16:16 FROGGS 1.min? nooooooo /o\
16:17 TimToady we're not gonna overload numeric methods with all the possible uses of numbers
16:17 timotimo :D
16:17 TimToady units, if we have 'em, should work more like postfixes
16:17 raydiak m: sub postfix:<mins>($count) { Duration.new(60*$count) }; say 3mins
16:17 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«180␤»
16:18 TimToady I think the use of plurals on units is somewhat misguided
16:18 TimToady 2.54cm
16:18 lizmat raydiak: this is what is in my gist :-)
16:18 TimToady not 2.54cms
16:18 FROGGS yeah, at least that is consistent with 1st, 2nd, 42rd
16:18 raydiak I dislike the minimum/minutes collision tho
16:19 timotimo i was suggesting to make it a method "minutes".
16:19 TimToady well, there's no "minimum" in the postfix space currently
16:19 FROGGS oh oh oh... do we get the unit 'cups' then also? :D
16:19 timotimo :D
16:19 TimToady presumably you'd only use it where it makes sense
16:19 raydiak true, the collision only exists in my head :)
16:19 TimToady I suspect the sane thing to do is to import the units you're really interested in
16:20 lizmat so how would a unit like "cm" look like?
16:20 lizmat 42.cm ?
16:20 TimToady no, units are not methods!!!!!
16:20 masak I think introducing units postfixes into the setting would require a lot more community buy-in than what we have so far.
16:20 lizmat or 42cm
16:20 [Coke] -1 on this being in core.
16:20 moritz -1 too
16:21 TimToady it's fine to import them
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16:21 masak please do this kind of experimentation outside of core first.
16:21 moritz lizmat: 42.cm looks cute, but IMHO it's not the responsibility of the Int type to know how to turn itself into a length unit
16:21 TimToady and the . isn't necessary
16:21 lizmat well, it would live in Numeric but
16:21 masak lizmat: number types should not do units -- among the very many things they shouldn't do.
16:21 PerlJam moritz: but ... but ... ruby does it   ;)
16:21 TimToady we use \ on postfixes if they're ambiguous
16:21 TimToady $x\i
16:22 masak FROGGS: you pervert :P
16:22 masak FROGGS: people start talking about units, and the first thing you think about is bra sizes :P
16:22 * moritz thought something else
16:22 TimToady masak: keep trying...or better yet, don't... :P
16:23 moritz but that would require a 'girls' unit too...
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16:23 lizmat so do we want units in core?
16:23 [Coke] nope.
16:23 masak no.
16:23 moritz no
16:24 lizmat do we need something like sub unit:<cm>($cm) { ... } ?
16:24 TimToady there you have it :)
16:24 lizmat ok
16:24 [Coke] sorry, lizmat!
16:24 masak lizmat: no.
16:24 TimToady not unless we distinguish units syntactically from postfixes, which we don't currently
16:24 lizmat fwiw, *if* we would do units
16:25 masak I'm still looking forward to an excellent/useful unit module.
16:25 lizmat I feel it should have whitespace between the value and the unit
16:25 masak haven't seen one yet.
16:25 PerlJam Didn't we have the "units" discussion at least once already?  (prior to lizmat joining #perl6 I'm sure)
16:25 masak PerlJam: I think there is one on p6l, far back.
16:25 TimToady lizmat: allowing whitespace would be insane
16:26 lizmat too cobolly ?
16:26 masak PerlJam: I played around with them in http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/6-builtins-in-perl-6-that-you-never-knew-you-needed
16:26 TimToady don't want to mix postfixes in with infixes
16:26 masak TimToady, defender of the term/op self-clocking.
16:27 masak (TimToady++)
16:27 raydiak what sorts of things do we consider when deciding what does or does not belong in core?
16:27 PerlJam raydiak: Whether TimToady likes it or now ;)
16:27 PerlJam er, s/now/not/
16:28 TimToady or contrariwise, defining them as infixes without a right argument would also be insane
16:28 raydiak PerlJam: beisdes the obvious :)
16:28 masak raydiak: the ratio between use and cost.
16:28 PerlJam masak++ I was going to say "bang buck ratio" next :)
16:29 * masak .oO( note to self: predicting what PerlJam says and then saying it brings instant karma ) :P
16:29 TimToady even leaving out that "min" is a valid infix
16:29 PerlJam masak: If you can predict what I'm going to say, let me know so that I can not bother saying it.
16:30 TimToady the name belongs in the setting if it's universal, like basic math; this does not necessarily mean that the implementation has to live in core, if we can load the implementation lazily
16:30 masak I place units in the "I'll believe it when I see it" category of possible features. until I see a genuinely useful/interesting implementation, I'm not going to vote for its inclusion in core.
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16:30 TimToady the problem is that some units are nearly universal, while others are deeply cultural
16:31 masak someone pointed out in a talk I went to recently that even if you have matching units, you can have completely incompatible *types*.
16:32 timotimo i'm really, really looking forward to the time when we can finally lazily load in features ...
16:32 masak which makes the naive assumption of "as long as the units match, everything's OK" useless.
16:32 moritz masak: for example Nm can either be an angular momentum, or be reducible to Joule (Energy), and you totally cannot add them up
16:33 TimToady not to be confused with nm :)
16:33 moritz because Nm as angular momentum is actually a vector product, where force and way are perpendicular, whereas in the case of Energy, they must be parallel
16:34 TimToady how does the 'units' program distinguish them?
16:34 masak moritz: that was the example the guy made, actually. in his live demo, the universe exploded as a result of adding the two magnitudes.
16:34 TimToady there's likely prior art on disambig
16:35 moritz anyway, the point is that this whole stuff is much more complicated than it might look on the surface
16:35 * masak installs units
16:35 masak moritz: exactly.
16:35 timotimo much install ...
16:36 TimToady the user interface of units sucks, but a lot of thought has gone into disambiguation and commensuration...commensurateness...commensurability...
16:37 * PerlJam suddenly wonders if the planck constant should be "in core"
16:37 TimToady well, we could put c, but physicists usually just define it as 1 anyway :)
16:37 * lizmat wonders what she stepped into  :-)
16:38 TimToady so to a physicist, it's not E = mc², but just E = m
16:38 [Coke] masak: (not in core) you're such a fiver! ;)
16:38 masak TimToady: how 'units' solves it: `Unknown unit 'Joule'`
16:39 PerlJam and how come we have pi, but not tau?   (or does that cross the line from "universal" to "cultural"? :)
16:39 masak [Coke]: I think I am, yes. I deeply respect Perl 5, and I think they got this part very right.
16:39 moritz TimToady: depends on the context
16:40 moritz CGS, Gauss and SI units are commonly used
16:40 moritz PerlJam: it's universally cultural :-)
16:40 masak [Coke]: but most of all, I really really like Perl 6, and I don't like seeing it encumbered by all kinds of cute-today regrets-tomorrow features.
16:40 TimToady I should qualify that as "theoretical physicists"
16:40 moritz TimToady: even there it depends
16:41 PerlJam masak: That one is almost enough to make me start a masak-quotes file.
16:41 moritz TimToady: those that do particle physics or astronomy or cosmology, yes
16:41 moritz but for example solid state folks all think in eV instead
16:41 [Coke] depending on how theoretically, maybe e= sqrt( (mc²)² + (pc)² ) !
16:41 TimToady well, most of my sampling is from a black-hole quantum thermodynamicist :)
16:41 moritz [Coke]++
16:42 masak PerlJam: having 'tau' would move Perl 6 closer to the "we like to be different for being different's sake!" hair-on-end looks-like-a-hobo box.
16:42 lizmat FWIW, disregarding the whole units discussion
16:42 [Coke] I really like the idea of tau, but that ship is not sailing under our control.
16:42 TimToady all the other theoretical physicists are really applied physicists, they just don't know it :P
16:42 lizmat the reason I wanted to add things like "1min" was to be able to more clearly call subs/methods taking Durations
16:43 [Coke] something(1(Duration))
16:43 [Coke] ?
16:43 masak [Coke]: (pc)² means "player character, squared", right? :P
16:43 lizmat feels to me that since we have Durations, but no units to handle them, we could get rid of Duration altogether for clarity
16:43 TimToady ick²
16:43 [Coke] masak: :P²
16:43 TimToady it's fine to have Durations, but require the units to be imported
16:44 masak m: say Duration.new(1)
16:44 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«1␤»
16:44 TimToady Durations are universal, but durational units are often cultural
16:44 [Sno] joined #perl6
16:45 masak whether we have units or not, Duration.new(1) is fairly straightforward, if you ask me.
16:45 lizmat TimToady: are you saying that "fortnight" would be a cultural duration ?
16:45 PerlJam masak: that's one femtosecond, right?
16:45 timotimo the difference is that duration actually has a unit, which is seconds (as you can see if you add it to an instant object)
16:45 lizmat masak: that's not very huffman coded, now is it
16:45 moritz German has no notion that corresponds to a fortnight
16:46 [Coke] moritz: no one does. :P
16:46 [Coke] (said the american...)
16:46 TimToady a microfortnight is about 1.72 seconds, iirc
16:46 raydiak sounds like something my son plays with...
16:47 itz "My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it!"
16:47 TimToady no, about 1.2 seconds
16:48 jnthn lizmat: What are you trying to huffman code, exactly? sleep happily takes a number of seconds, as well as a Duration. The time-related supply methods also do.
16:48 jnthn uh, well, they don't also take a Duration yet
16:48 fhelmberger joined #perl6
16:48 jnthn But they should.
16:48 masak lizmat: what jnthn said.
16:48 jnthn And probably just re-dispatch to the number-taking one given that's the more low-level of the two.
16:48 lizmat I would almost argue that sleep should *only* take a duration
16:48 masak feels like we're proposing a solution with no real problem to solve.
16:49 jnthn lizmat: I'd call that "inventing a huffman problem to solve" ;)
16:49 lizmat indeed, sorry everybody for the hubris
16:49 lizmat I will go back to writing tests now  :-)
16:49 masak there's nothing wrong with sleep() expecting seconds, IMHO.
16:49 lizmat sleep expects Any atm
16:50 jnthn And .Num's it, I guess?
16:50 masak I'd be fine with Cool, but whateves.
16:50 * masak is grateful/happy lizmat is thinking about and hacking on stuff
16:51 * jnthn also
16:51 * masak is also grateful that there are community counterbalances in place for a Lone Patcher :)
16:53 lizmat well, this didn't even make it to a commit
16:54 masak :)
16:54 lizmat because I like to test things before I commit and it didn't work
16:55 lizmat afk&
16:58 woolfy Maybe a bit less vagueness and jocularity and a bit more specifics would be helpful for lizmat.  I mean, if not "1min", how else should a timeframe be shortly specified in a Perl6-way?  I don't understand all the fuzz, but I'm not a real programmer anyway.
17:00 woolfy So if somebody would be so nice to tell what it should be, and not just what it should NOT be, that would be extremely helpful and productive.  Thanks.
17:01 PerlJam woolfy: Duration.new(60), or since most things take numbers meaning number of seconds, just 60.
17:01 TimToady that's where I started; 1min is not composed of a number plus a postfix if you define it as a term, which is a design smell
17:02 woolfy PerlJam: that sounds specific and helpful.
17:02 woolfy TimToady: so that's how it should be according to you?
17:02 woolfy Thanks.
17:02 TimToady if the language allows 1min, it should always be parsed as a number plus a postfix
17:03 TimToady mixing them together violates the independence of numbers and names
17:03 woolfy Too bad, I hoped for some shortcuts.  I kinda like the idea of "1min"...  :-)
17:03 hoverboard joined #perl6
17:03 TimToady and if you define 1min as a term, what about 2min?
17:03 woolfy 2min seems to be double of 1min...
17:04 TimToady it's not productive if you define it as a term, but it is if you define 'min' as a postfix that can be applied to a number
17:04 PerlJam woolfy: There's nothing that precludes someone from writing a module that makes "1min" work.   It's just living with the consequences that might be annoying  :)
17:04 retupmoca m: sub postfix:<min>($m){ Duration.new(60 * $m) }; say 1min; # something like this, put into a module?
17:04 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«60␤»
17:04 TimToady yes
17:04 woolfy you mean "1.min"?  or "1(min)" or "1<min>" or or or?
17:04 TimToady no, 1min, precisely
17:05 TimToady the only alternate form is 1\min
17:05 TimToady m: say 1i
17:05 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«0+1i␤»
17:05 TimToady m: say 1\i
17:05 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«0+1i␤»
17:05 TimToady m: say 1.i
17:05 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«No such method 'i' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in block  at /tmp/JcGltkjX6h:1␤␤»
17:05 woolfy hmmm...  I don't like slashes and backslashes in such a way, looks too much like we're going into regexes...
17:05 TimToady m: say 1\    i   # well, this too
17:05 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«0+1i␤»
17:05 TimToady you only need the backslash (really an unspace) when it's ambiguous
17:06 TimToady m: say (1)i  # also works
17:06 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«0+1i␤»
17:06 woolfy PerlJam: there's one thing you can count on, and that is that lizmat will make a lot of modules when things will not go into the core, and this might be very well one of the first...  :-)
17:06 jnthn woolfy: 1foo and 1\foo are always equivalent, but if you have $variable\foo then it's needed to avoid amgiguity.
17:06 TimToady 2.54cm would define an inch just fine
17:06 TimToady and that's how it's usually written anyway
17:06 woolfy TimToady: thanks for the explain
17:07 * TimToady tends to be too concise sometimes
17:07 PerlJam woolfy: It would be nice to have a Units module
17:08 TimToady we could bikeshed how to import sets of related units :D
17:08 jnthn woolfy: I think a lot of pepole are quite hesitant to see this in core. Especially because it ties into whether we want units to act like types too. And there's arguments for both ways, and I imho it'd be better to leave this stuff in module space.
17:09 jnthn woolfy: At least until we have something enough folks are very comfortable with.
17:10 colomon Units module +1
17:11 woolfy jnthn: I have been programming with units before (15+ years ago) and it was stuff like "1min".  Maybe that was a module that lizmat built back then...  can't remember...
17:11 woolfy jnthn: so if shortcuts are going to be allowed in the core, indeed, enough people should be comfortable with them...
17:13 TimToady or at least the language designer should be comfortable that a lot of people will become comfortable with them eventually :)
17:13 * woolfy and lizmat were planning to go to Spiderman 2 in our local cinema.  Plan is going to be executed in 10...  9...  8...  :-)
17:13 TimToady o/
17:13 woolfy afk
17:13 jnthn woolfy: Enjoy :)
17:13 PerlJam woolfy, lizmat: have fun!
17:14 colomon Spiderman 2 is in theatres now?  Guess I really need to get around to seeing Spiderman 1.
17:14 PerlJam btw, timotimo mentioned lazy loading ... is that in the spec somewhere?
17:15 TimToady that would be an implementation issue, at the moment
17:15 masak PerlJam: don't think so. it's mentioned now and again as the ultimate thing that would save startup time.
17:15 jnthn Don't we already have enough implemenation issues? :D
17:16 TimToady though, of course, performance is a user-visible interface, alas
17:16 jnthn I think it's worth doing, I just don't have a good design idea.
17:17 PerlJam Seems like it could also cause problems.  How is the compiler to know when to load a module and when to die?  How do you specify which items are to be lazily loaded and from where?  Would that be part of the setting?
17:18 TimToady macros are the answer to everything :)
17:18 masak argh
17:18 PerlJam heh
17:19 jnthn ESPECIALLY when they're called marco!
17:19 jnthn I wonder if somehow trapping the lookup of the symbol would do it.
17:19 jnthn "omg, did he just say Bag?"
17:20 brrt joined #perl6
17:20 TimToady well, that's how macros talk
17:20 jnthn Except those aren't actually done as symbol lookups, but wvals..
17:21 TimToady .oO(  quasi-from-disk { ... }  )
17:21 rurban joined #perl6
17:23 TimToady "omg, did she just say Bag?"   # channeling au++
17:24 timotimo jnthn: and sadly, Cool would for example pull in hundreds of classes just because there are coercer methods
17:24 timotimo ... except if the trap is placed somewhere more clever than where i'm thinking
17:24 moritz http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks # me has been laughing manically
17:25 TimToady Cool would not be a good candidate for this treatment
17:26 TimToady laziness buys you nothing if you're always going to have to do it anyway, and in fact introduces useless overhead
17:26 rurban joined #perl6
17:26 Rotwang joined #perl6
17:26 TimToady (a problem we need to solve on lists too)
17:27 guru joined #perl6
17:27 * FROGGS .oO( qw(a problem we need to solve on lists too) )
17:27 jnthn I guess on lists a lot of it is knowing when we can chunk, and how chunky we can be.
17:27 TimToady problem is that it is really a negotation between two parties; one party cannot dictate
17:28 TimToady "I don't care; do you care?"  "Yeah."  "Okay, then I care too."
17:29 TimToady and because context is itself lazy, we have to do that negotiation JIT
17:29 TimToady that's the short summary of pm++'s plan for revising list semantics
17:29 jnthn Aye
17:30 TimToady and part of the do-you-care is whether there are side effects
17:30 jnthn I really hope pm++ tuits will emerge...or somebody who groks the plan can supply stand-in tuits. :)
17:31 * TimToady looks around, and whistles...
17:32 * colomon wishes he grokked the plan and had tuits….
17:36 TimToady there's something deep going on here with pull semantics vs push semantics too; lazy is pull, but eager is really push--at least, that's how I fixed the over-eager for, by making it the decision of the interator to be eager rather than the decision of 'for'
17:36 TimToady so ranges, for instance, know they can be eager, because they have no side effects
17:38 TimToady so when used in a 'for', a range returns a thousand or so values in a batch
17:38 TimToady unfortunately the top end of our iterators is not structured to take much advantage of tht yet
17:39 TimToady hence the need for negotation
17:40 vaskozl joined #perl6
17:40 adu joined #perl6
17:42 TimToady the spelling of negotiation is negotable...
17:42 ashleydev it might be useful to note what node.js did with module loading which they initially had as asynchronous and decided to make it as one of the few synchronous things in node.
17:43 TimToady yes, that's the correct default, I think
17:43 ashleydev though that's not lazy/eager it's sync/async
17:44 TimToady to the extent that module loading changes your current language, it must really be synchronous
17:44 ashleydev they tried to hold out on that one for quite a while
17:45 [Coke] colomon: asm2 not here in the US yet, i think.
17:45 ashleydev .oO(this is javascript so we need to be pure!)
17:45 [Coke] I am going to skip ASM2, but will have to see XM:DoFP
17:45 TimToady yes, well, it's not really obvious to most language designers that languages are different from other things :)
17:46 colomon [Coke]: XM:DoFP for sure, I absolutely adored the last XM movie (First Class?)
17:47 bluescreen100 joined #perl6
17:47 anaeem___ joined #perl6
17:48 raydiak moritz++: thanks for sharing that link :)
17:49 [Coke] colomon: mmm. I also really liked CA:WS (and the M:AoS tie in)
17:49 [Coke] also really looking forward to GoTG.
17:49 jnthn dinner &
17:50 masak moritz: I enjoyed that article; thanks :)
17:51 FROGGS cool, the labels really seem to work in perl6-m!
17:54 ajr_ joined #perl6
17:56 rurban joined #perl6
17:57 [Coke] ٩(ಥ_ಥ)۶
17:58 lvfjf joined #perl6
17:58 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: 2e22d99 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/control.pm:
17:58 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: delegate to LABEL's method for redo/next also
17:58 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2e22d996ac
18:00 FROGGS m: my $x = 0; FOO: while $x++ < 1 { say &?BLOCK }
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/bfOIV2MQGiâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    &?BLOCK used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
18:00 FROGGS n: my $x = 0; FOO: while $x++ < 1 { say &?BLOCK }
18:00 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤»
18:00 FROGGS :/
18:01 FROGGS damnit, another can of worms
18:06 TimToady .oO(the diet coke of worms)
18:09 * [Coke] ears are burning.
18:09 TimToady shoulda said "the Diet [Coke] of Worms"
18:09 * [Coke] wonders if there's a way to say "/me's ears"
18:10 TimToady zero-width space?
18:10 timotimo terminals with fixed-width spaces will probably ignore that?
18:10 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: b55b500 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/PseudoStash.pm:
18:10 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: fudge label ex throwing for parrot/jvm
18:10 dalek rakudo/loop_labels_test: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b55b500df6
18:10 timotimo fixed-width fonts*
18:10 * TimToady 's
18:11 TimToady aw, deletes the backspace
18:11 TimToady maybe you could sneak an ANSI cursor movement through there
18:12 MilkmanDan joined #perl6
18:13 timotimo usually not :)
18:14 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
18:15 TimToady well, we sneak color escapes through, for some definition of 'through' not including the logs
18:15 TimToady (yet)
18:16 raydiak I am glad a cleverly crafted IRC message can't draw all over my terminal with abandon
18:17 * raydiak imagines phishing for root passwords over IRC or other such nonsense
18:17 vaskozl raydiak: what do you mean?
18:17 * TimToady Password:
18:17 raydiak vaskozl: ^
18:17 vaskozl oh..
18:18 bakers joined #perl6
18:19 MilkmanDan ********
18:19 MilkmanDan That's mine.
18:19 timotimo hunter2
18:19 timotimo mine ^
18:19 raydiak *facepalm*
18:19 vaskozl but in unix the password never appears in plain text on the screen
18:19 MilkmanDan timotimo: Type it again.  All I see are *s.
18:19 vaskozl you never see * either
18:20 vaskozl by default that is :/
18:20 raydiak pretty sure the right control codes can turn echo off
18:20 vaskozl raydiak: have you seen one that works?
18:21 raydiak vaskozl: never tried.  speculating out of ignorance, tbh
18:21 bakers left #perl6
18:22 vendethiel "Every programmer starts out writing some perfect little snowflake like this" -- thanks for the laugh, moritz++
18:22 vendethiel (as a student, I can see some great "programmer starting out" codes)
18:23 vendethiel (considering how many teachers there are here (people helping newcomers too !), I'm sure lots of you know it very well too)
18:23 vaskozl vendethiel: you a fellow noob?
18:24 vendethiel vaskozl: I've read the synopsis, but other than that, pretty much :).
18:24 vaskozl haha you are not alone
18:35 * raydiak ponders snowflakes and decides Pray needs some attention
18:40 * [Coke] finds http://www.availlang.org/ through a surprising blog source.
18:42 * [Coke] quotes "Avail is a multi-paradigmatic general purpose programming language whose feature set emphasizes support for articulate programming."
18:42 brrt so... many... languages
18:43 vendethiel DSLs* :P
18:44 brrt srsly though
18:44 brrt how many languages have come 'out' just the last year?
18:44 brrt or the last five
18:45 brrt julia, rust, avail
18:45 TimToady yes, well, it's not really obvious to most language designers that languages are different from other things :)
18:46 vendethiel it's good that languages come out
18:46 vendethiel it's not like it's "new" either way ...
18:46 brrt well.... no, its not immediately obvious to me either
18:47 brrt (racket)
18:47 rurban joined #perl6
18:49 brrt TimToady... i'm curious. what makes languages different from other things?
18:50 brrt to put my question in context, for a recent course i had to learn that no non-human form of communication was equivalent with the complexity of languages
18:50 brrt i.e. apes cannot recurse
18:51 nwc10 apes insist that their regular expressions are regular? :-)
18:51 [Coke] that sounds a little hubristic.
18:51 [Coke] not like we speak dolphin or anything. :)
18:52 brrt well... that was my initial reaction, too
18:52 fhelmberger joined #perl6
18:52 brrt however, i haven't had an ape to test yet, and it seems that the famous 'nim chimpsky' and other sign-language apes really only ever made rather simple sentences
18:53 brrt that is, non-recursive sentences
18:55 brrt to get back on topic of computer languages - it seems funny that most high-level computer languages also have the 'properties' of human languages - hierarchy, recursion, and polysemy - while 'machine code' does not
18:56 vendethiel why "funny"? that just shows how complex these are, imho
18:57 brrt good question i think
18:58 brrt ok, for one thing, a high level language and its (compiled) machine-code are 'equivalent' in a sense
18:58 timotimo yay, java 1.8 jdk
18:58 brrt i.e. it is possible to express everything you can express with the help of hierarchy, recursion, etc, by a 'simple' sequence - and references
18:59 vendethiel possible ? most definitely. "easy"? most probably not
19:00 brrt not the point i'm trying to make here :-)
19:00 brrt basically, the trick of language is that it allows you  to express anything
19:01 brrt my local linguist argued that this was because of the recursion inherent in human languages
19:01 brrt but machine code does not 'recurse' - or does it?
19:03 Gothmog_ there are jumps...
19:04 timotimo i think data-dependent jumps make it what it is, no?
19:04 brrt i don't think thats on the same level, but you might  well argue
19:04 Gothmog_ it's not in the syntactical sense
19:05 Gothmog_ and that what's the chomsky hierarchy is about
19:05 Gothmog_ but it can use recursion when you execute it
19:07 brrt (i'll be off now for a bit)
19:08 igorsutton joined #perl6
19:13 brrt joined #perl6
19:15 ashleydev re: the units discussion, I use a program http://calca.io and you can add arbitrary units to any number and it will keep them as symbols unless it can factor them out
19:16 ashleydev so would it be possible that: `1s / 1s # 1' and `1s / 1h` # 1s/h
19:16 TimToady yes, units are not much use in the absence of dimensional analysis
19:17 TimToady or "dimensionalysis", as some of my professors had it
19:17 ashleydev so can we have arbitrary symbols that stay as symbols unless they are defined?
19:18 TimToady all languages are derivatives of Perl 6 :)
19:19 ashleydev m: say 1s / 1s;
19:19 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Q3BQStQPRtâ�¤Confusedâ�¤at /tmp/Q3BQStQPRt:1â�¤------> [32msay 1[33mâ��[31ms / 1s;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        whitespaceâ�¤Â»
19:19 timotimo Stage classfile  : java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded
19:19 timotimo didn't we just reduced the memory necessary to compile the setting?
19:19 timotimo seems like it's not enough if you're on java8
19:19 TimToady ashleydev: but you have to derive the languages that are derivatives
19:20 nwc10 Ooooh, https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/461199264345903104/photo/1 -- Falcon 9 onboard camera shot right before splashdown. Full vid posting shortly to http://spacex.com .
19:20 ashleydev so maybe that's how the units module works, it just allows you to do symbolic math
19:20 TimToady and I think 1s/1h should reduce to 1/3600; you want different types if the seconds are not commensurate with the hours
19:21 nwc10 I'm still wondering how they manage to turn it round from pointy bit forward to firey end forward, while it's travelling at supersonic speeds
19:21 ashleydev h = 60s; 1s/1h # -> 1/3600
19:21 ashleydev it's symbolic
19:21 ashleydev no semantics
19:22 TimToady well, the mathematicians will like that a lot better than the physicists :)
19:22 vendethiel m: sub postfix:<s>(Int $n) { Duration.new($n); }; say 5s / 5s
19:22 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:23 vendethiel m: sub postfix:<s>(Int $n) { Duration.new($n); }; say 5s / 5
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:23 vendethiel mh, I guess it makes sense
19:23 vendethiel (I'd have expected 1s in the second one, but it probably only prints its value)
19:24 * ashleydev too
19:24 TimToady m: sub postfix:<s>(Int $n) { Duration.new($n); }; say (5s / 5s).WHAT
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
19:24 TimToady m: sub postfix:<s>(Int $n) { Duration.new($n); }; say (5s / 5).WHAT
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
19:25 TimToady arguably should return a Duration
19:25 TimToady m: sub postfix:<s>(Int $n) { Duration.new($n); }; say (5s + 5s).WHAT
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«(Duration)␤»
19:25 TimToady at least that's correct
19:26 TimToady m: say (now - now).WHAT
19:26 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«(Duration)␤»
19:26 kurahaupo joined #perl6
19:27 dwarring joined #perl6
19:27 vendethiel I really think 5s/5's WHAT should be duration
19:27 vendethiel 5s / 5s is a ratio, so it's expected to be a num
19:27 TimToady yes, it's just a duration that is 1/5 as long
19:27 TimToady nodnod
19:28 TimToady but we see how easy it is to screw up the dimensional analysis
19:28 TimToady which is why we should really write all these APIs automatically from the units database
19:29 TimToady (and import a few by default)
19:29 ashleydev or do it symolically
19:30 TimToady well, that's basically what dimensional analysis is doing
19:30 ashleydev agreed
19:30 ashleydev I think mathmatica does this quite a bit
19:30 TimToady except a physicist would know that s and h are just different scalar values of the same dimension
19:31 kurahaupo TimToady: so how do I distinguish energy (Joules) from torque (Newton-metres)?
19:31 TimToady and that info is stored in the units database
19:31 TimToady I dunno, been several years since I read that file :)
19:32 TimToady and I don't do many everyday calculations on either energy or torque
19:32 * TimToady only understands physics; he doesn't know what he's talking about though
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19:33 kurahaupo actually torque is Newton-metres-per-radian, but the symbol for radian is usually omitted
19:34 kurahaupo s/omitted/forgotten/
19:35 raydiak wikipedia suggests "The use of newton-metres for torque and joules for energy is useful in helping avoid misunderstandings and miscommunications."
19:35 raydiak also mentions "radians are dimensionless"
19:38 TimToady 'man units' is quite instructive, if you've installed the program
19:38 kurahaupo raydiak: yes, well, dimmensionless in terms of not using length, weight or time, however treating radians as a dimension in its own right makes the whole angular moment thing work properly.
19:40 raydiak (man units)++
19:45 ashleydev what are Man Units?
19:45 ashleydev (units DB in Calca: http://calca.io/units )
19:46 raydiak kurahaupo: I want to ask "how so?", but then you'll know how much I don't know what I'm talking about :)
19:46 timotimo in my experience, "man" is usually combined with a time unit, like "man hours"
19:46 ashleydev ah
19:47 raydiak heh
19:47 raydiak as in a man page
19:47 ashleydev no
19:47 ashleydev :P
19:47 * TimToady is pleased that the units database at least does not define any units with the name 'i', so we don't collide with our current postfixes
19:47 PerlJam .oO( man is usually combined with woman )
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19:48 PerlJam TimToady: It does define e doesn't it?  and not as 2.718281828
19:48 TimToady we can have units like watt-hours, since we allow hyphens, but how do we indicate reciprocol units?
19:48 ashleydev OH Boy, now the math gets strainge, girl
19:48 TimToady with ' maybe
19:49 TimToady well, e is a term in Perl, not a postfix
19:49 PerlJam oh, right
19:49 TimToady but still, it is a collision
19:49 TimToady one or the other of those should be italic :)
19:50 TimToady I'm guess the charge of teh electron should be italic
19:50 TimToady *guessing
19:50 TimToady not to mention *the
19:51 TimToady .u 𝑒
19:51 yoleaux U+1D452 MATHEMATICAL ITALIC SMALL E [Ll] (𝑒)
19:52 * raydiak re-reads the last few minutes of backlog to study all the cleverness that flew over his head the first time
19:52 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
19:52 TimToady but the mathematicians and physicists have a lot to answer for when it comes to introducing context dependencies into their nomenclature
19:53 ashleydev Maybe that's what makes their nomenclature hard, it's like looking at a decompiled program with single grapheme variable names
19:54 TimToady and most of them localized
19:54 ashleydev they don't allow variable names > 1 char
19:54 ashleydev *grapheme
19:54 kurahaupo raydiak: e.g. angular force (N.m/rad) multiplied oby angular speed (rad/s) = power (W=J/s=N.m/s)
19:54 TimToady that's the big problem with mathematicians--they write for other mathematicians, who they are allowed to assume are intelligent
19:56 TimToady obviously, in hindsight, we shoulda invented computers before we invented math
19:56 kurahaupo ashleydev: but they're allowed *any* grapheme, not just Latin letters
19:56 ashleydev that's the language designer talking
19:57 * kurahaupo recalls once running out of Latin and Greek letters and starting in on Hebrew
19:57 ashleydev kurahaupo: of course, they need to be able to name a bunch of registers and their units
19:58 ashleydev or the straing unicode fonts :/
19:58 FROGGS what? what makes me read this as unicode farts?
19:59 TimToady > u MATHEMATICAL | wc -l
19:59 TimToady 1007
19:59 ashleydev nice!
19:59 * jnthn returns from noms
19:59 ashleydev would have wondered if it came out 1337
19:59 FROGGS jnthn: hehe, am I allowed to catch your exception?
19:59 jnthn FROGGS: There's probably a combining unicode fart :P
19:59 FROGGS jnthn: possibly *g*
20:00 ashleydev or PILE OF POO
20:00 timotimo hmm. the syntax for an enum doesn't allow pod to be attached to the individual pieces.
20:01 TimToady m: say :9<1337>  # off by 1
20:01 camelia rakudo-moar c9f223: OUTPUT«1006␤»
20:01 FROGGS timotimo: hmmm, sad... woulda been nice to add descriptions to enum's like SDL offers 'em
20:01 PerlJam sounds like a bug to me
20:01 [Coke] TimToady: you just forgot the FENCEPOST character.
20:01 timotimo well, you can add them manually, i would think
20:01 timotimo but it'd be a bit fiddly :(
20:03 FROGGS jnthn: do you have an idea how (on earth) I would stick labels to loops?
20:03 FROGGS err, *to for loops
20:03 jnthn FROGGS: Hm. What level are we talking about?
20:03 jnthn Oh, and which language? :)
20:03 FROGGS I am talking about statement_control:sym<for> in P6::A
20:03 denis_boyun__ joined #perl6
20:04 TimToady > u THE | wc -l
20:04 TimToady 1325
20:04 jnthn Ah
20:04 jnthn Hmmm
20:04 TimToady off-by-12 error
20:04 jnthn FROGGS: Well, I guess the mapiter needs to know about it?
20:04 PerlJam FROGGS: does jnthn have many non-earthly ideas that you needed to be sure to only get the earthly ones? :)
20:05 timotimo err on the side of safety :P
20:05 TimToady darn it, I ate my lunch without noticing, and I suspect it would've tasted good
20:05 PerlJam good point
20:05 FROGGS PerlJam: I just wanna sit where I am atm :o)
20:05 FROGGS jnthn: yeah ...
20:06 jnthn Well, on Neptune you'd just shove it into the QAST tree, but on earth it's harder... :P
20:06 FROGGS this is for other loops: (see that and few lines above) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/loop_labels_test/src/Perl6/Actions.nqp#L1168
20:06 FROGGS hehe
20:07 FROGGS I guess I'd also pass it as a named arg to .map as the first step
20:08 jnthn How does just pushing the label as a child work out in 2-child vs 3-child loop nodes, ooc?
20:08 timotimo to get rid of nameds?
20:08 jnthn oh, :named('labal')
20:08 jnthn :)
20:08 jnthn Nice enough
20:08 jnthn FROGGS: Yes, that sounds fairly sensible
20:10 FROGGS okay, that MapIter code looks a bit icky but doable
20:11 timotimo i've got a sneaking suspicion that the hard drive i've installed my system to is actually a 5200u one ...
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20:15 PerlJam What's the difference between  :named('foo')  and :name('foo')  ??
20:15 FROGGS hmmm, nqp::handle only emits a single MAST::HandlerScope on moar...
20:15 jnthn d
20:15 PerlJam are they semantically identical?
20:16 FROGGS PerlJam: the former mixes in a role, QAST::SpecialArg, which turns it into a named argument
20:16 jnthn PerlJam: No, :named(...) always means "named argument"
20:16 PerlJam got it.
20:16 PerlJam thanks.
20:16 FROGGS the other one let you set the name of the sub, if :op is 'call', and for a method if :op is 'callmethod'
20:16 jnthn :name is on a couple of nodes, and its meaning depends on the node.
20:17 jnthn What FROGGS said for QAST::Op; on QAST::Block it's the name of the block, though.
20:18 FROGGS and for QAST::Var it's the name of the variable including sigils and stuff
20:18 jnthn aye
20:19 PerlJam aye, I guess :name() was clear to me, but :named() wasn't.
20:20 FROGGS ahh, now I see how nqp::handle works... so I could add 'LAST_LABELED' and code for it, and I'm done
20:20 FROGGS that seems to be it for moar (and jvm)
20:21 FROGGS and the pir is also easily done :o)
20:21 * FROGGS is happy
20:21 jnthn yay
20:21 timotimo oh yays :3
20:23 * timotimo can't wait to be confusing people with weird labeled-loop-control-flow :P
20:26 FROGGS timotimo: as I see it only for loops needs doing
20:26 FROGGS the rest is in loops_labels/loops_labels/loop_labels_test (moar/nqp/rakudo)
20:31 timotimo how's the non-moar status? parrot has it, jvm not?
20:31 FROGGS nqp-p is fine, perl6-p should be but is untested
20:32 FROGGS nqp-j and perl6-j needs doing
20:42 dalek roast: c9f504a | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2012-day20.t:
20:42 dalek roast: adding 2012 advent day 20
20:42 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c9f504a18b
20:45 guest1 joined #perl6
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20:54 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
20:54 dalek roast: c126bf1 | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2012-day06.t:
20:54 dalek roast: typo+tweaks
20:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c126bf1169
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22:25 timotimo gnite o/
22:37 cosimo joined #perl6
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23:12 dalek nqp/async_ops: 65bcfae | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/io/AsyncSocketHandle.java:
23:12 dalek nqp/async_ops: Fix async readChars on JVM.
23:12 dalek nqp/async_ops: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/65bcfae2f6
23:39 lvfjf joined #perl6
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23:51 BenGoldberg p6: $_ = "abcdEFghij"; print $0,$2 while s/(.)(.*)(.)/$1/;
23:51 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«ajbichdgEF»
23:51 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} c9f223: OUTPUT«ajbichdg»
23:51 BenGoldberg What the EF?
23:53 raiph joined #perl6
23:54 BenGoldberg p6: $_ = "ab"; if s/(.)(.*)(.)/$1/ { say "Success: $0,$1,$2,$_" } else { say "fail: $_" }
23:54 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Success: a,,b,␤»
23:54 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} c9f223: OUTPUT«fail: ␤»
23:55 pecastro joined #perl6

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