Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-05-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:09 colomon is the rakudo build failing right now?>
00:09 colomon (on parrot)
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00:23 colomon rakudobrew builds moar for me just fine, but parrot looks like it goes into an infinite recursion or something… errors stretching all the way through my scrollback buffer
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00:26 benabik heh
00:26 benabik Yes.
00:26 benabik An optimization broke the Parrot build.  I posted the breaking commit back in the clogs.
00:27 benabik 1775172: “Various return typecheck/decont optimizations.”
00:27 colomon benabik++
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00:32 colomon huh.  was there no response at all to your report?
00:33 benabik No.  Odd hour of the night, and I’m pretty busy at the moment so haven’t followed up.
00:34 colomon moar and JVM both build fine.
00:36 colomon if I'd been paying attention to me smoke test results, I'd have noticed the bug days ago … it hasn't built a new Rakudo successfully since that patch.
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01:41 skids r: role A [ :$a = 1, :$b = $a ] { say $a ~ $b }; role B does A[ :a(2) ] { }; class C does B[ ] { }; class D does A[ :a(3) ] { };
01:41 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«22␤32␤»
01:41 camelia ..rakudo-parrot fd5f8e: OUTPUT«22␤33␤»
01:41 camelia ..rakudo-jvm fd5f8e: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Failed to load config.properties␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:8)␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:8)␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp)␤  in  (src/vm/jvm/ModuleLoader.nqp:78)␤  in load_module (src/vm/jvm/ModuleLoader.nqp:60…»
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02:12 * grondilu wrote http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Window_creation/X11#Perl_6
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02:56 colomon wow, installing DateTime::TimeZone on JVM incredibly slow?
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06:06 dalek ecosystem: 22ad485 | duff++ | META.list:
06:06 dalek ecosystem: Add Git::Wrapper
06:06 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/22ad4859fd
06:09 sergot morning o/
06:19 masak morning
06:21 thou m: "ab" ~~ m/(.)(.)/; say $/.keys.perl;
06:21 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(0, 1, "").list␤»
06:22 thou Patch to fix that, is it good?  ^ https://pastee.org/99sdf
06:22 masak m: "ab" ~~ m/(.)(.)/; say $/<>
06:22 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«「ab」␤ 0 => 「a」␤ 1 => 「b」␤␤»
06:23 thou m: "ab" ~~ m/(.)(.)/; say $/{''}.perl
06:23 masak thou: I guess it's good if it passes the spectests :)
06:23 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«[]␤»
06:23 masak oh, right.
06:23 masak zen slices.
06:23 masak a more interesting question is "what is that empty string key doing there in the first place, so that we have to delete it?"
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06:25 thou I may have misread things, but it seems to be that %caps{''} := $count is used to track some state during sub capnames()
06:29 thou ... I guess at the very least P5Regex/Actions shold be modified, too ....  I'll run tests, heading to bed now. :-)
06:30 masak thou++
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06:48 dalek specs: 37196f6 | (Tim Smith)++ | S05-regex.pod:
06:48 dalek specs: Fix example: $/.keys list keys start from 0, not 1
06:48 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/37196f6118
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07:04 sergot m: say [] ~~ Array;
07:04 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«True␤»
07:04 sergot m: say <1 2> ~~ Array;
07:04 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«False␤»
07:04 sergot m: say <> ~~ Array;
07:04 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/IaGJXVhR_H�Unsupported use of <>; in Perl 6 please use lines() to read input, ('') to represent a null string or () to represent an empty list�at /tmp/IaGJXVhR_H:1�------> [32msay <[33m�[…»
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07:05 sergot m: say <1 2>.WHAT
07:05 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
07:05 sergot m: say [] ~~ Parcel;
07:05 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«False␤»
07:05 sergot m: say [].WHAT
07:05 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(Array)␤»
07:06 sergot m: say (1,2).WHAT
07:06 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
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07:20 masak ooh -- the above gives me an idea for a useful library function:
07:20 masak "most relevant common ancestor"
07:20 masak you pass in Array and Parcel, and you get out... whatever most significant type those two have in common.
07:20 masak m: say Array.^mro
07:21 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(Array) (List) (Iterable) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
07:21 masak m: say Parcel.^mro
07:21 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(Parcel) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
07:21 masak hm. appears to be Cool. in this case.
07:21 masak why aren't Parcels Iterable?
07:21 moritz why is Iterable a class?
07:22 masak :)
07:23 masak is there a way to ask a class "what roles did you (and your ancestors) mix in?"
07:23 masak m: say Array.^roles
07:23 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(Positional)␤»
07:23 masak oh, gotcha.
07:24 masak m: say Parcel.^roles
07:24 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(Positional)␤»
07:24 masak well, It Can Be Done.
07:25 lizmat good *, #perl6!
07:26 lizmat .tell Mouq should List.rotor(1,0) not be just { self } ?
07:26 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to Mouq.
07:26 lizmat .tell Mouq and could you also transmogrify the S17-supply/rotor.t tests to handle List.rotor ?
07:26 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to Mouq.
07:28 masak mornin', lizmat
07:28 lizmat masak o/
07:28 moritz \o masak, lizmat, *
07:28 masak ahoy, moritz
07:28 lizmat moritz o/
07:29 lizmat sergot: are we still on for a pre PLPW perl 6 hackathon?
07:43 * lizmat is wondering whether this boilerplate "my $cmp = $by.arity == 2 ?? $by !! { $by($^a) cmp $by($^b) }" shouldn't be a function
07:44 lizmat something like:
07:45 lizmat sub BY2 (&by = &infix:<cmp>) { $by.arity == 2 ?? $by !! { $by($^a) cmp $by($^b) }
07:45 lizmat and sigs like min could then be:
07:46 lizmat hmmm... not in the sig :-(
07:46 lizmat grrr
07:59 arnsholt o/
08:03 FROGGS o/
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08:06 masak lizmat: sounds like a step in the right direction.
08:07 masak lizmat: if I may bikeshed the name, I'd have it as just 'BY', though.
08:07 lizmat :-)
08:08 masak (unless there's a BY1 or BY3 hiding in there somewhere)
08:08 lizmat hehe... will look
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08:15 dalek specs: 2ac69b9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
08:15 dalek specs: Spec Supply.(min|max)
08:15 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/2ac69b9521
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 3613faa | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (2 files):
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement Supply.(min|max) and test them
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3613faa1ae
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08:51 timotimo .o(and it should be &by every time, or $by every time, rather than a mixture of both ;) )
08:53 sergot lizmat: what do you mean? :)
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08:59 lizmat timotimo: yes, but the idea was clear, eh?
08:59 lizmat sergot: I was under the impression we would have a Perl6 hackathon before the PLPW in Poznan
09:00 lizmat I didn't hear anything about it anymore, so I started wondering  :-)
09:00 lizmat fwiw, woolfy and me will be in Poznan from Wed evening
09:01 woolfy lizmat means we will drive by car on wednesday, May 14, to Poznan.
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09:08 sergot lizmat: sounds great!
09:08 sergot I'm in ! :)
09:08 lizmat well, we do need a place, right ?
09:10 sergot That's right. I can check if there's a place in company I work in.
09:11 sergot lizmat: how many participants do you expect?
09:12 lizmat good question: I understand jnthn and FROGGS could make it there on the Friday
09:12 sergot I have never heard about this I think, so there are some questions.
09:12 lizmat tadzik hopefully :-)
09:13 lizmat sure..  :)
09:13 sergot How would it look like? How long would it last? and so on.. :)
09:14 FROGGS I'll be there on friday afternoon/evening, yes
09:14 lizmat well, Fri evening would be social time, right?
09:14 sergot Right.
09:15 FROGGS I hope so :o)
09:15 lizmat I was thinking from about 10am forward until social time on Fri ?
09:15 lizmat there would be at least me  :-)
09:15 FROGGS hmmm
09:16 FROGGS sergot: if you can make up a nice place, I try to be there at lunchtime
09:16 sergot I must talk with guys here to find out if we can do this in the venue. :)
09:17 sergot So I'll know in about 2 hrs
09:17 lizmat ok, otherwise: it seems woolfy and me have an apartment in Poznan for the duration
09:17 lizmat so if small enough, we could have it there as well
09:19 sergot Give me a sec. ;)
09:22 lizmat sure, we still have more than a week :-)
09:27 grondilu r: subset foo of int; sub f(foo $x) { say $x }; f my int $ = 43;
09:27 camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} fd5f8e: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '$x'␤  in sub f at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
09:27 camelia ..rakudo-jvm fd5f8e: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Failed to load config.properties␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:8)␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:8)␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp)␤  in  (src/vm/jvm/ModuleLoader.nqp:78)␤  in load_module (src/vm/jvm/ModuleLoader.nqp:60…»
09:27 grondilu r: subset foo of Int; sub f(foo $x) { say $x }; f my Int $ = 43;
09:27 camelia rakudo-jvm fd5f8e: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Failed to load config.properties␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:8)␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:8)␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp)␤  in  (src/vm/jvm/ModuleLoader.nqp:78)␤  in load_module (src/vm/jvm/ModuleLoader.nqp:60…»
09:27 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} fd5f8e: OUTPUT«43␤»
09:28 * lizmat just had an idea:
09:30 lizmat what if camelia would post a gist if the output is not the same for all backaned, and post a link to that gist on the channel?
09:30 lizmat *backends
09:33 FROGGS +1
09:33 FROGGS at least when it hits the '…'
09:33 lizmat yup, good point
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09:42 timotimo the gist could then also contain the command in a second gist, and a link back to the clogs perhaps?
09:43 FROGGS +10
09:43 FROGGS :D
09:43 FROGGS and then it will to decide if it was in line with the spec and create a ticket in such a case :P
09:45 timotimo hah
09:46 timotimo maybe we'd want to create our own little site for that whole thing?
09:46 timotimo it could also incorporate these little hashtags raiph suggested
09:47 FROGGS but that sounds bigger, and will not be there soonish - at least that is my expectation
09:47 FROGGS baby steps, aka using gist now would help here I think
09:47 lizmat I was just thinking of ways to make #perl6 more palatable to more people  :-)
09:53 timotimo right.
09:53 Woodi hallo :)
09:53 timotimo lizmat: i heard from multiple people by now that the amount of text is a bit overwhelming to many
09:53 Woodi camelia could paste into #perl6.+ maybe ?
09:53 timotimo and i admit that sometimes when i backlog, i skip over large portions of chatlog if there's mostly evaluations :P
09:56 raydiak .tell tadzik tried through the window again on a recent moar, and it runs playably on my craptop; might have tried jvm last time...figured you'd want to know its not as grim as it seemed
09:56 yoleaux raydiak: I'll pass your message to tadzik.
10:00 timotimo moarvm doesn't yet have a spesh function for the CStruct repr, so maybe at some point it could optimize accesses to CStruct repr'd classes; jnthn said it's "complicated", so i'm probably not the one to do it any time soon :P
10:02 FROGGS timotimo: but it sounds very valuable
10:02 FROGGS because, what is a fast C-lib when you have a bottleneck right before it?
10:03 timotimo well, the question is what exactly is to be gained
10:03 FROGGS and often you can't abstract accesses to structures away
10:03 timotimo my brain is kinda tired still
10:04 timotimo at least the repr op get_attribute can take a hint parameter
10:04 timotimo hm. the try_get_slot does a linear search through the mapping
10:05 timotimo er, no
10:05 FROGGS we need simple but realistic use cases
10:05 FROGGS (and the profiler)
10:05 timotimo it linear-scans to find the right class
10:05 timotimo yes, i suppose we do.
10:05 timotimo the p6bench suite doesn't have any benchmarks incorporating NativeCall.
10:05 FROGGS I was hoping that you would step up and work on the profiler :o)
10:06 FROGGS that's why I highlighted you the other day
10:06 timotimo aye, i saw it and thought about it
10:06 timotimo but it seems kinda scary
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10:07 timotimo i think i need a nap. y'all still have time to do stuff that i can include in the weekly :)
10:08 FROGGS ohh, the weekly, yes
10:09 FROGGS timotimo: about labels: done for perl6-m/nqp-m, done for perl6-p/nqp-p, in the works for nqp-j (and afterwards perl6-j)
10:09 FROGGS that is all I have :/
10:13 Woodi tadzik: is it possible to add bullet sprite and wait for collision event(s) somehow ?
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10:23 FROGGS If I had more time I'd port Alien::Box2D and Box2D to Perl 6 :/
10:25 Woodi m: my %d = < 1 a 2 b 3 c 4 d 22 p 31 z >;  my $ds = 2; my $de = 4;  say %d{ %d.keys.grep( { $ds <= $_ <= $de } ) };
10:25 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«b c d␤»
10:25 Woodi is maybe some shortcut for that ?
10:26 sergot lizmat: ok, we have a room (for ~ 10 people) near the venue
10:26 lizmat sergot: excellent news!
10:26 sergot it's a room just near plpw's room :)
10:26 FROGGS cool!
10:27 Woodi sergot: Allegro is organizing that event ?
10:27 sergot Woodi: Poznan Perl Mongers is the main organizator, they are just our sponsor and a partner.
10:27 Woodi vnice anyway :)
10:28 sergot But, we can say they organize it too :)
10:28 dalek specs: 082012d | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
10:28 dalek specs: Spec Supply.elems
10:28 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/082012d644
10:28 dalek roast: b9490bf | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/elems.t:
10:28 dalek roast: Add tests for Supply.elems
10:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b9490bf4d6
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10:30 FROGGS Woodi:
10:30 FROGGS m: my %d = < 1 a 2 b 3 c 4 d 22 p 31 z >;  my $ds = 2; my $de = 4;  say %d{ $ds..$de };
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«b c d␤»
10:31 Woodi hmm, so I builded some additional layer ?
10:31 FROGGS yeah, kind of
10:32 Woodi thou: FROGGS++ :)
10:32 FROGGS :o)
10:32 Woodi grr # layers
10:34 dalek rakudo/nom: aa668e8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | docs/ChangeLog:
10:34 dalek rakudo/nom: Mention Supply.(min|max|elems)
10:34 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aa668e8f4b
10:34 dalek rakudo/nom: 87a4e64 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (2 files):
10:34 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement Supply.elems, make sure we test it
10:34 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/87a4e64982
10:36 Woodi hmm, it adds Any for non-existing keys
10:38 lizmat Woodi: try adding :v
10:38 lizmat that should filter out the non-existing keys
10:39 Woodi works ! thanx :)
10:40 lizmat S02:2468
10:40 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_2468
10:42 Woodi difference with orginal wordy try is one space so say somehow sees skipped element ?
10:47 lizmat Woodi: I'm not sure I follow you?
10:48 lizmat want to know the keys that are *not* in there ?
10:50 woolfy sergot++ for organising workshop & for hackathon-room    \o/
10:51 Woodi lizmat: example:  http://pastebin.com/Vmb16sm1
10:52 Woodi a bit strange 'say' sees something in place of filtered elements
10:52 Woodi bat let's see if it's a problem or not
10:53 lizmat and with :v ?
10:53 lizmat I'm not sure I understand what the problem is
10:55 * lizmat admires the design on this cover: http://akamaicovers.oreilly.com/images/9780470414637/lrg.jpg
10:55 Woodi line with space in front is with :v. I imagine %h{ some list/range } :v  returns list of keys so I wonder why say sees invisible elements
10:56 Woodi s/keys/values/
10:56 lizmat aha, so you're saying :v is returning an extra element ?
10:56 Woodi tested only with 'say' so far :)
10:56 Woodi checking
10:56 lizmat could you check .elems on the result and tell  whether that is ok?
11:01 Woodi m: my %d = < 1 a 2 b 4 d 22 p 31 z >;  my $ds = 2; my $de = 4;  say %d{ $ds..$de } :v;
11:01 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«b  d␤»
11:02 Woodi probably filtered elements are returned as undefined
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11:04 masak is it still a fair description to say that type inference is "planned for Perl 6"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_inference
11:05 masak to what extent does Rakudo already do type inference?
11:07 moritz afaict it does type propagation, and inspecting return types of subroutines that it can resolve at compile time
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11:07 masak oki
11:07 moritz but in Perl 6, type inference is strictly an optimization
11:07 moritz not a language feature
11:07 masak right.
11:08 moritz because you can always just leave out the type completely
11:08 masak so maybe the sentence should simply be removed from that article.
11:10 moritz +1
11:11 Woodi my %d = < 1 a 2 b 4 d 22 p 31 z >;  my $ds = 2; my $de = 4;  for %d{ $ds..$de } :v -> $a { say $a };
11:11 Woodi m: my %d = < 1 a 2 b 4 d 22 p 31 z >;  my $ds = 2; my $de = 4;  for %d{ $ds..$de } :v -> $a { say $a };
11:11 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«b␤d␤»
11:14 lizmat m: my %h = (a => 1); say (%h{<a b c>}:v).elems
11:14 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«1␤»
11:14 lizmat Woodi: not sure what you're seeong
11:15 lizmat m: my %h = (a => 1); for %h{<a b c>}:v { say 1 }
11:15 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«1␤»
11:16 Woodi lizmat: I expected "b d", not "b  d" in example above.
11:17 lizmat "b  d" being a newline between the b and the d ?
11:17 lizmat but you're doing 2 say's
11:17 timotimo does the :v apply if you have a space in front, too?
11:18 lizmat yes, afaik
11:18 timotimo m: my %d = < 1 a 2 b 4 d 22 p 31 z >;  my $ds = 2; my $de = 4;  say (%d{ $ds..$de } :v).perl;
11:18 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«("b", (), "d")␤»
11:18 timotimo ah. empty list
11:18 lizmat mmmm
11:18 lizmat intriguing
11:19 Woodi m: my %d = < 1 a 2 b 4 d 22 p 31 z >;  my $ds = 2; my $de = 4;  say %d{ $ds..$de } :v; my @a = %d{ $ds..$de } :v; say @a;
11:19 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«b  d␤b d␤»
11:20 lizmat not sure if that's a bug
11:20 lizmat TimToady ^^^
11:20 sergot m: my %h = <1 a 2 b>; say (%h{5}).perl;
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«Any␤»
11:20 sergot m: my %h = <1 a 2 b>; say (%h{1..5}).perl;
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«("a", "b", Any, Any, Any)␤»
11:21 sergot m: my %h = <1 a 2 b>; say (%h{1..5} :v).perl;
11:21 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«("a", "b", (), (), ())␤»
11:21 moritz I guess it should return an explicit Nil in there
11:21 moritz and the Nil shouldn't flatten out to ()
11:21 lizmat hmmm
11:21 moritz known not-up-to-date-spec-ness
11:21 lizmat I seem to recall that () is the only way, as Nil currently doesn't flatten to nothing?
11:22 moritz m: say (Nil, Nil).flat.perl
11:22 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«().list␤»
11:22 moritz it flattens to nothing.
11:22 lizmat hmmm... ok
11:22 * lizmat goes mucking about in src/core/Any
11:28 lizmat $ perl6 -e 'my %h = (a => 1); say (%h{<a b c>} :v).perl'
11:28 lizmat (1,)
11:28 lizmat that looks better
11:29 Woodi on moar:  (1, (), ())
11:33 lizmat yes, s/()/Nil/ causes some breakage in spectest
11:33 lizmat investigating
11:33 moritz lizmat: maybe wait for clarification from TimToady++
11:35 lizmat S02:491
11:35 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_491
11:36 lizmat so s/()/Nil is not the answer
11:39 lizmat actually, thinking about it, one could argue that "say" is wrong
11:39 lizmat or basic interpolation
11:39 Woodi "Nil value represents the absence of a value where there should be one, so it does not disappear in list context,* but relies on something downstream to catch it* or blow up" - 'for' and array assigment catch it, 'say' not
11:39 lizmat as .elems and for do the right thing
11:41 lizmat I wonder whether the problem isn't really in "nqp::p6argvmarray()"
11:42 Woodi can :v just skip over nonexistent values, pls ?  ooO(hmm, but how to skip above nothing...)
11:44 lizmat :v does that
11:45 lizmat it's just that if you "say" the result, you still see an artefact of that skipping
11:45 lizmat my %h = (a => 1); say (%h{<a b c>} :v).elems  # only 1 element, not 3!
11:46 lizmat m: my %h = (a => 1); say (%h{<a b c>} :v).elems  # only 1 element, not 3!
11:46 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«1␤»
11:46 Woodi for what such Nil-the-non-exsisted could be usefull ?
11:46 lizmat wel, e.g. with first(), to indicate nothing was found
11:47 Woodi but if nothing is found then result container should be empty :)
11:47 moritz Woodi: depends on the method
11:47 moritz Woodi: grep returns lists; it makes sense to return an empty list there
11:47 moritz Woodi: first returns an item; it doesn't make as much sense there
11:51 Woodi can we introduce some out-of-band communication for 'return' ? something like ANSI control sequences... ;)
11:52 Woodi would be great in C :)
11:56 sergot m: say (Any, (), Any, ()).elems;
11:56 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«2␤»
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12:08 timotimo will the rakudo star release for this month make it out the door in the next ~hour?
12:08 jnap joined #perl6
12:10 lizmat afaik jnthn is teaching
12:10 lizmat so ETA would be tonight at the earliest, I would think
12:11 Woodi hmm, extending Bool class could be a pain - it have 0s and 1s hardcoded all over it ;)
12:11 timotimo OK
12:15 moritz you're not supposed to mokey-patch Bool :-)
12:16 FROGGS IIRC someone just needs to upload the tarball and spread the world
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12:23 dalek specs: e5079f8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
12:23 dalek specs: Spec Supply.minmax
12:23 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/e5079f8f19
12:34 dalek rakudo-star-daily: b83ae29 | coke++ | log/ (4 files):
12:34 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
12:34 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/b83ae29f9a
12:34 dalek perl6-roast-data: 97c8c48 | coke++ | / (6 files):
12:34 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
12:34 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/97c8c48766
12:36 xenoterracide joined #perl6
12:37 sergot $ perl6 -e 'say ("a" x 1073741824).perl'
12:37 sergot Segmentation fault (core dumped)
12:37 sergot is it known?
12:37 FROGGS not sure
12:40 lizmat do you have 10G of RAM ?
12:40 lizmat ah, 1G
12:40 lizmat but still
12:41 masak failure mode could be better, even if Rakudo ends up not being able to do it.
12:41 masak sergot: feel free to submit a rakudobug.
12:41 sergot Mem:          3858
12:41 [Coke] (parrot broken) yes, still broken
12:41 sergot $ perl6 -e 'say ("a" x 1073741825).perl'
12:41 sergot repeat count > 1073741824 arbitrarily unsupported...
12:41 sergot This is perl6 version 2014.04-169-gbeba99f built on MoarVM version 2014.04-49-gaa7bbef
12:42 masak heh.
12:42 timotimo sergot: we're currently forcing every string to use 32bit for every character
12:42 timotimo on moarvm
12:42 sergot oh
12:42 * masak .oO( where's Rakudo for your billion-string repetition use case? ) :P
12:43 * masak .oO( clearly not ready for release! )
12:43 [Coke] in the daily runs, 18b7e2e was the first failing commit.
12:44 [Coke] 72f5b96 was the last one that worked before that.
12:47 timotimo lizmat: see #moarvm; should .roll() return an item instead of a list?
12:52 sergot m: my @a = (1); my @b = (2); say @a + @b; say @b + @a
12:53 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«2␤2␤»
12:53 sergot Why 2 twice? ;)
12:53 masak sergot: because addition is on numbers.
12:53 masak sergot: not on lists.
12:53 timotimo http://p6weekly.wordpress.com/?p=155&amp;shareadraft=536789c53b3a9 - i hope i'm missing a few things :)
12:53 masak sergot: (we talked about this) :)
12:53 rurban joined #perl6
12:54 masak sergot: so infix:<+> numifies first (list length; two 1s), and then adds the numbers.
12:54 sergot masak: I know, but I'm just curious what does this "2" mean.
12:54 sergot Ok, it's clear now
12:54 FROGGS m: my @a = (1); my @b = (2); say @a (+) @b; say @b (+) @a
12:54 masak that the combined length of those lists is 2.
12:54 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«bag(1, 2)␤bag(2, 1)␤»
12:54 masak no matter which order you add them.
12:55 sergot masak: right, I should have known that.
12:56 sergot m: say (1).WHAT;
12:56 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
12:57 masak it's because you put them into arrays that they act like that.
12:57 masak m: my @a = 42; say +@a
12:57 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:00 sergot thanks masak++, it's clear now :)
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13:03 masak tadzik++ # rakudobrew, which I somehow wasn't really aware of until now
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13:09 jnap joined #perl6
13:09 timotimo did my sharedraft link get noticed? :P
13:10 * masak notices
13:10 lizmat timotimo: s/especially// ?
13:11 masak timotimo: inconsistent 'jnthn'/'Jnthn' at the start of list items.
13:11 timotimo i suppose that's fair :)
13:11 timotimo fixed both
13:11 timotimo i would like additions to the list, mostly :P
13:11 masak timotimo: the blog post you're referring to is from Feb 2013...
13:12 timotimo oh, the holy grail or utopia one?
13:12 lizmat masak: but we only found out about it this week, no?
13:12 masak I think I've seen it flash by before, actually.
13:12 timotimo wow, i didn't even know
13:12 masak timotimo: I'm not 100% we should mention Parrot failing in a weekly report. maybe after it's been fixed?
13:13 timotimo mhh
13:14 lizmat masak: which might mean we never mention Parrot again ?
13:14 timotimo psst
13:15 lizmat :-)
13:15 timotimo parrot's not dead yet
13:15 timotimo hoelzro: o/
13:15 FROGGS I am looking at that parrot issue right now
13:15 timotimo sounds good
13:18 masak FROGGS++
13:19 colomon joined #perl6
13:23 rurban which parrot issue?
13:24 masak rakudo doesn't build, apparently.
13:24 masak see http://justrakudoit.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/rakudobrew/
13:25 FROGGS rurban: not parrot's fault
13:26 rurban interesting fail
13:27 timotimo rurban: do you have something for me to report in the weekly? about parrot?
13:28 colomon m: my $mix = (a => 3, b =>2).Mix; say $mix.roll.perl
13:28 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«("a",).list␤»
13:28 colomon m: say (1..6).roll.perl
13:28 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«6␤»
13:28 rurban should have been caught by my rakudo buildbot also, but wasn't
13:28 colomon m: say (1..6).roll(2).perl
13:28 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«(1, 2).list␤»
13:28 rurban timotimo: just that GSOC started with optimizing the handling of GC write barriers
13:28 * colomon is happy to declare that a bug
13:29 rurban we expect only minor performance improvements (one less nested function call in every method or vtable call)
13:30 colomon rurban: the rakudo build fail does not appear to be parrot's fault, it just is limited to the parrot version of rakudo
13:31 masak colomon: that does seem pretty inconsistent, yes. either it should be lists/parcels all the time, or items for all .roll calls.
13:31 dalek rakudo/nom: f579a0a | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Mixy.pm:
13:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix listiness of Mixy.roll, as reported by colomon++
13:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f579a0a7b3
13:31 rurban colomon: yes, I saw. I still have a rakudo buildbot which should have caught it, but it was dead.
13:31 masak lizmat++
13:31 timotimo rurban: that's part of the optimization for method signatures gsoc project?
13:31 rurban yes
13:31 timotimo i can mention that, thanks!
13:31 colomon lizmat++  \o/
13:31 rurban thank you :)
13:32 masak m: say (1..6).roll(1).perl
13:32 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:32 lizmat m: (a=>10,b=>20).Mix.roll.perl.say
13:32 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«("b",).list␤»
13:32 lizmat masak ^^^
13:32 lizmat only for Mixes
13:33 igorsutton joined #perl6
13:34 colomon lizmat++ # Mixes are perfect for what I'm doing
13:35 lizmat colomon: yw  :-)
13:37 masak lizmat: yes, I was just testing the list case when 1 was explicitly passed in.
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13:40 [Coke] FROGGS++
13:41 dalek rakudo/nom: b5ee59f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (3 files):
13:41 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement Supply.minmax, test and announce it
13:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b5ee59f6e7
13:42 * colomon cannot begin to say how awesome it is to find a bug in your code, realize your code is correct and the compiler is wrong, and have the compiler fixed within the hour.  :)
13:44 timotimo tadzik: got anything i can already link to for your game stuff?
13:45 igorsutton joined #perl6
13:45 timotimo colomon: i'd prefer less compiler bugs, tbh :)
13:46 timotimo well ... post publish'd
13:47 colomon timotimo: sure, less compiler bugs is a great goal.
13:47 FROGGS timotimo++
13:48 colomon timotimo++
13:48 rindolf joined #perl6
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 049c431 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/List.pm:
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: De-TAB
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/049c43103f
13:49 lizmat timotimo++  :-)
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13:56 lizmat ETA on NLPW videos: not this week :-(
13:57 [Coke] hey, lizmat.
13:58 lizmat [Coke] /o
13:59 masak ooh, there'll be NLPW videos? that's great news!
14:00 timotimo not this week either? :(
14:01 [Coke] /home/coke/sandbox/perl6-roast-data/rakudo.jvm/t/spec/fudge: No such test file 't/spec/S17-supply/max.t'
14:01 [Coke] /home/coke/sandbox/perl6-roast-data/rakudo.jvm/t/spec/fudge: No such test file 't/spec/S17-supply/min.t'
14:01 lizmat the video guy is on holiday :-(
14:01 timotimo ah, ok
14:01 rurban joined #perl6
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14:01 lizmat [Coke] have you pulled roast ?
14:03 FROGGS lizmat: mix.t/min.t missing here: https://github.com/perl6/roast/tree/master/S17-supply
14:03 FROGGS err, max.t/min.t
14:04 lizmat oops
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14:05 dalek roast: 20fd106 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/m (3 files):
14:05 dalek roast: Add tests for Supply.(min|max|minmax)
14:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/20fd10639b
14:05 lizmat [Coke] did you pull roast ?  :-)
14:06 lizmat oO( pompedipompedipom )
14:06 daniel-s joined #perl6
14:06 FROGGS *g*
14:06 * lizmat whistles as if nothing happened
14:06 FROGGS lizmat: hmm, weird, as if it was there already :P
14:06 lizmat for some definition of there, that would be true  :-)
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14:11 dalek rakudo/nom: cba80b6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (3 files):
14:11 dalek rakudo/nom: More de-TABbing
14:11 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cba80b6134
14:12 lizmat cycling&
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14:30 btyler m: (1, 2, 3)>>++; #LTA error compared to r-j
14:30 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«No such method 'STORE' for invocant of type 'Int'␤  in sub postfix:<++> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4556␤  in sub flatmap at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:17410␤  in sub METAOP_HYPER_POSTFIX at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:17313␤  in block  at /tmp/FBEwBDG4Hg:1…»
14:30 woolfy joined #perl6
14:31 btyler j: (1, 2, 3)>>++;
14:31 camelia rakudo-jvm fd5f8e: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Failed to load config.properties␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:8)␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:8)␤  in  (gen/jvm/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp)␤  in  (src/vm/jvm/ModuleLoader.nqp:78)␤  in load_module (src/vm/jvm/ModuleLoader.nqp:60…»
14:31 btyler whoops
14:31 btyler well, r-j gave me "can't modify immutable value", which is rather clearer than the r-m message
14:31 darutoko joined #perl6
14:32 masak btyler: agreed. maybe submit a rakudobug?
14:36 hoelzro morning #perl6
14:40 dayangkun joined #perl6
14:40 moritz masak: there's already a bug report, and failing tests, for that error message
14:41 btyler oh, I should have read the test file further, sorry for the noise
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14:55 masak oh
14:55 bjz joined #perl6
14:59 dalek specs: 59480b5 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
14:59 dalek specs: fix formatting of a text paragraph
14:59 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/59480b5e67
14:59 hoelzro o/ timotimo
15:00 hoelzro I started up a repo on GH for keeping syntax highlighting/editor support in one place; anyone want a commit bit?
15:00 * timotimo saw it :)
15:00 colomon hoelzro++
15:04 colomon lolibloggedagain: http://justrakudoit.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/tune-reminder/
15:08 timotimo colomon: isn't a mix with "higher status levels" giving you those tunes more often?
15:08 timotimo oh!
15:08 timotimo there was code that was scrolled off to the side
15:08 colomon timotimo: no, the mix is weighted via 1 / 2 ** $status
15:08 colomon yeah, wordpress is awkward that way
15:08 timotimo 'tis
15:11 * colomon just realized he still remembers how to play both parts of the Flying Reel, but doesn't remember how many times each is repeated.  :\
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15:19 tadzik timotimo: not really, it's not quite ready
15:19 yoleaux 09:56Z <raydiak> tadzik: tried through the window again on a recent moar, and it runs playably on my craptop; might have tried jvm last time...figured you'd want to know its not as grim as it seemed
15:19 lvfjf joined #perl6
15:19 tadzik raydiak: yay! \o/
15:19 tadzik timotimo: I wanted this one to have menus and all that, but it seems that bugs will stop me :/
15:20 dalek rakudo/nom: fb27b44 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
15:20 dalek rakudo/nom: unbust parrot build
15:20 dalek rakudo/nom:
15:20 dalek rakudo/nom: There are two problems popping up as shown in the comment. Sadly I am
15:20 dalek rakudo/nom: unable to provide a fix so I just unbreak the build by commenting out
15:20 dalek rakudo/nom: the triggering code.
15:20 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fb27b4402e
15:20 tadzik but I at least want to add explosions, I found some nice sprites :o
15:20 tadzik timotimo: you could link to the prereleased code though
15:22 timotimo huh, menus?
15:23 timotimo tadzik: https://github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew/pull/7 pls2mrg?
15:24 tadzik timotimo: merg'd
15:24 tadzik timotimo: yeah, like "Play, Instructions, Exit"
15:24 tadzik and it goes to the menu when you win/lose, instead of closing the game
15:24 timotimo mhm
15:24 timotimo sdl2 has font rendering for us now? :)
15:24 timotimo or do we need sdl_ttf for that?
15:24 tadzik if not, then sdl2_ttf surely does
15:25 tadzik I was thinking of just cheating and using pngs... :P
15:25 igorsutton joined #perl6
15:25 tadzik then I don't have to include a font and worry about its license
15:25 timotimo hah
15:25 timotimo aye.
15:26 tadzik but yeah, brokens
15:26 tadzik it's probably not brokens on parrot, but parrot inbearably slow
15:26 timotimo sad to hear it
15:27 tadzik so I may just ship it later today with no menus
15:27 tadzik but I want to add them explosions :o
15:27 tadzik I could workaround the bug, it'd just be a little bit annoying
15:27 timotimo if you make sure it's compatible with rakudo star moar ... :P
15:28 tadzik heh
15:28 masak FROGGS++
15:28 colomon Done, parrot-HEAD built  \o/
15:29 colomon FROGGS++
15:38 treehug8_ joined #perl6
15:41 * jnthn back
15:42 hoverboard joined #perl6
15:42 jnthn Hm, I think that patch shouldn't have commented it out, but instead check if we're on Parrot with an "if" and just done tried the opt.
15:43 treehug88 joined #perl6
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16:00 jnthn Is there anybody about with a rakudo.org upload key? My laptop does not, apparently, have one. :/
16:00 jnthn If so, http://jnthn.net/tmp/rakudo-star-2014.04.tar.gz is the thing to upload
16:01 FROGGS joined #perl6
16:01 dmol joined #perl6
16:02 * [Coke] checks.
16:03 FROGGS jnthn: Perl6::Optimizer is not under fudge's control
16:03 FROGGS so I was unable to #?if that out
16:05 [Coke] jnthn: uploaded, I think.
16:05 FROGGS timotimo / tadzik: about font rendering... at some point you might want to support pango
16:05 [Coke] jnthn++
16:06 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
16:06 FROGGS yes, it is available at http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/rakudo-star-2014.04.tar.gz
16:09 tadzik [Coke]++
16:09 [Coke] it was pretty much the least I could do! ;)
16:10 tadzik FROGGS: probbly, yeah
16:13 FROGGS damn, we need cpantesters so much!
16:18 Rotwang joined #perl6
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16:21 TimToady :v is not supposed to return anything for missing elements; returning either () or Nil would be wrong
16:30 anaeem1 joined #perl6
16:32 PerlJam m: say $*OUT: "hi";  # Is this supposed to work or am I just mis-remembering something basic?
16:32 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/bVZcaSG_7Lâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/bVZcaSG_7L:1â�¤------> [32msay $*OUT[33mâ��[31m: "hi";  # Is this supposed to work or a[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix sto…»
16:33 benabik m: print $*OUT: ‘hi’
16:33 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/3_3FPsAtkKâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/3_3FPsAtkK:1â�¤------> [32mprint $*OUT[33mâ��[31m: ‘hi’[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta…»
16:33 guru joined #perl6
16:33 TimToady rakudo doesn't parse that yet
16:34 benabik Erm, no, that’s basically the same thing you did.  Whoops.
16:34 benabik std: say $*OUT: ‘hi’
16:34 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Confused at /tmp/U5EBrXIZGm line 1:â�¤------> [32msay $*OUT: [33mâ��[31m‘hi’[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤       feed_separatorâ�¤ infix or meta-infixâ�¤    infixed functionâ�¤       statement modifier loopâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:01 …»
16:34 PerlJam Then I guess I was misremembering that rakudo did parse it.
16:34 TimToady um, those aren't ASCII quotes
16:35 TimToady std: say $*OUT: 'hi'
16:35 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 125m␤»
16:35 benabik Is OS X mucking with my quotes now?
16:35 TimToady something is
16:36 benabik std: 'a' # fixed?
16:36 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
16:36 TimToady we may have to break down and allow fancy quotes if this becomes more of a problem
16:37 TimToady and things like … too
16:37 PerlJam I have no desire for fancy quotes, but I've occasionally wondered why … didn't work.
16:37 * TimToady blames dwimmy telephones for changing people's expectations
16:39 BenGoldberg m: say q‘test’
16:39 camelia rakudo-moar fd5f8e: OUTPUT«test␤»
16:40 BenGoldberg m: $*OUT.say 'hi';
16:40 TimToady it wouldn't be hard to support them, it's just a bit more bloat
16:40 camelia rakudo-moar fb27b4: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/T7w4Xi_D7Kâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/T7w4Xi_D7K:1â�¤------> [32m$*OUT.say [33mâ��[31m'hi';[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        method argumentsâ�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤â€¦Â»
16:41 PerlJam btw, is there a way to make !!! a little more dwimmy?  (I always tend to use it like so:  has $.foo = !!! 'foo is required';   # And I'd like to not have to type that message all the time.
16:41 PerlJam BenGoldberg: you need the : or parens
16:41 BenGoldberg m: $*OUT.say: 'hi';
16:41 camelia rakudo-moar fb27b4: OUTPUT«hi␤»
16:41 * vendethiel thinks that the object target specifier use of : is confusing
16:41 PerlJam vendethiel: confusing how?
16:42 vendethiel $*OUT.say: <= the : denotes the call
16:42 vendethiel say $*OUT: the : denotes the receiver
16:42 TimToady std: has $.foo = !!!;
16:42 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  'has' declaration outside of class at /tmp/7Z1WF23XpE line 1:â�¤------> [32mhas[33mâ��[31m $.foo = !!!;[0mâ�¤ok 00:01 123mâ�¤Â»
16:42 TimToady std is fine with leaving out the message
16:45 PerlJam yeah, but I want which attribute is required to still be output.  fail, fail with warning, and die aren't quite dwimmy enough without some other introspective information.  (I find anyway)
16:45 hoverboard joined #perl6
16:46 PerlJam I guess that's more of a compiler issue than a spec issue though
16:46 TimToady it would certainly be possible to make the message dwimmier, it's just a smop
16:47 PerlJam I guess I'll have to look at it when I have some time and see if I can't make it better.
16:49 rurban joined #perl6
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16:51 FROGGS PerlJam: FYI, it is not a typed exception yet
16:52 FROGGS so that would be the first step, throw a X::Stub or similar
16:52 PerlJam aye
16:53 FROGGS currently it is just: rakudo/src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:4182:            $past.push($*W.add_string_constant('Stub code executed'));
16:58 TimToady that's not the fundamental problem; regardless of type, the exception needs to know what the user was intending to stub, so in this case it needs to know that we're in the initializer of a declarator
16:59 TimToady and that's more of a lexical issue than a dynamic issue
16:59 daemon joined #perl6
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17:00 Martin90 Hello, what are the changes in perl 6 in comparsion to perl 5 ?
17:00 PerlJam Martin90: lots of things
17:00 PerlJam Martin90: why do you ask?
17:01 Martin90 I am just curious of news in perl 6
17:01 jnthn FROGGS: Yeah, but we can check at runtime... nqp::getcomp('perl6').backend.name
17:01 Martin90 is there any sable version ?
17:01 Martin90 stable*
17:01 hoelzro Martin90: rakudo is fairly stable
17:01 PerlJam Martin90: what do *you* mean by stable?
17:01 hoelzro and it's just getting better
17:01 Martin90 I've heard about it, what it means "rakudo" ?
17:02 hoelzro rakudo is one implementation of Perl 6
17:02 PerlJam Martin90: Rakudo is a Perl 6 compiler
17:02 BenGoldberg perl6 is definited by the specification.
17:02 hoelzro originally targetting Parrot, but it now targets Parrot, the JVM, and MoarVM
17:02 hoelzro MoarVM is the new Perl 6 awesome sauce
17:02 Martin90 I've heard that perl 6 is able to produce exacutable code, true ?
17:03 hoelzro better described as a VM that's designed specifically for Perl 6 (more accurately, the Six Model Object system)
17:03 BenGoldberg There are a couple different implementations of that specification.  There's the Rakudo implementation (with three different backends), and the Niecza implementation (which targets .net/mono)
17:04 PerlJam Martin90: Depends on what you mean by 'executable code'  :-)  But, the answer is probably "no" for what you mean.
17:04 Martin90 like .exe ?
17:04 Martin90 on windows
17:04 tadzik that even perl 5 can do, if you put the perl compiler in that exe
17:04 jnthn [Coke]: Thanks for uploading!
17:05 tadzik you can do that with every language if you are clever enough
17:05 Martin90 true ;)
17:05 tadzik so, did you mean: produce machine code?
17:05 Martin90 but the key factor is "speed" of it
17:05 * BenGoldberg ponders a befunge executable ;)
17:05 Martin90 yes machine code
17:05 PerlJam jnthn: Are you putting the release announcement on rakudo.org?  (I was going to point Martin90 at rakudo.org and noticed it's still announcing March's release)
17:06 tadzik no, it cannot produce machine code
17:06 Martin90 Where can I find full list of changes from perl 5 to 6 ?
17:06 tadzik and producing machine code wouldn't really make it fast by itself
17:06 TimToady we should have a JIT by end of summer though
17:06 hoelzro I'd say it's unlikely for a Perl 6 implementation to produce machine code in the future, but we may get some very nice JITing in the future
17:06 BenGoldberg Well, if you use Rakudo with the jvm backend, and your computer uses java bytecode as it's native machine code... ;)
17:06 hoelzro Martin90: it's probably best to just read about Perl 6 itself; there are so many changes that a diff might not help
17:06 tadzik dynamic languages tend to fare better when they're dynamically optimized, rather than being compiled upfront
17:06 Martin90 Where can I find full list of changes from perl 5 to 6 ?
17:07 PerlJam Martin90: start reading at perl6.org.  Particularly the synopses
17:07 tadzik or the "Perl 5 to 6" articles
17:07 PerlJam Martin90: You could say that everything changed but the spirit
17:07 tadzik they might be a bit dated, but they're a nice introduction
17:08 Martin90 perlJam what could you pelase provide linke to this synopis
17:08 Martin90 ?
17:08 PerlJam Martin90: if you'd like to compare perl5 code against perl6 code, checkout rosettacode.org
17:08 tadzik it's on perl6.org
17:08 PerlJam Martin90: what tadzik said
17:08 PerlJam (there's also a link to rosettacode on perl6.org too)
17:09 * [Coke] looks at http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Sieve_of_Eratosthenes#Perl and thinks that might be a little too many ways to do it.
17:10 Martin90 ok thanks ;)
17:10 jnthn PerlJam: Yeah, working on posting that right now :)
17:10 Martin90 And the most important quetion
17:10 Martin90 how looks the performance comparsion between perl 5 and 6 ?
17:11 PerlJam Martin90: Depends on which compiler you use and which features you exercise.
17:11 TimToady short answer: not as bad as it used to
17:11 Martin90 in favor ?
17:11 tadzik also short answer: not too good :)
17:12 PerlJam Martin90: Currently the Rakudo compiler is slower, but has the ability to get faster :)
17:12 tadzik real world example: a 60fps space invaders with 100 collision checks per frame is basically pushing the limits of rakudo's speed
17:12 Martin90 haha, nice answer ;)
17:13 Martin90 what is your generaln impression of perl 6 ?
17:13 * TimToady likes it
17:13 Martin90 syntax speed etc
17:13 PerlJam heh
17:13 PerlJam Martin90: if you're looking for speed, you probably don't want to use any of the perl6 compilers yet.
17:13 jnthn Perl 6 always feels very refactorable to me. It's easy to evolve code from one form to another.
17:14 PerlJam Martin90: (You realize that you're talking to the people that use and hack on perl6 all the time, right?)
17:15 Martin90 refactorable  ?
17:16 Martin90 PerlJam, rather yes, am I wring ?
17:16 Martin90 wrong*
17:16 tadzik I'd say "yes", but it might not be the answer you're looking for :)
17:16 tadzik it makes sense to ask us, but we're also slightly biased
17:17 tadzik Martin90: I think, performance or not, that it's worth to try Perl 6 out, even if you won't end up using it
17:17 Martin90 heh, what you mean by biased ?
17:17 tadzik it has some nice ideas in it, and will certainly teach you something new about programming in general
17:17 PerlJam Martin90: The best thing to do, if you want to get a feel for Perl 6, is to install a compiler and use it.
17:17 * TimToady perceives that Martin90 is not a native English speaker
17:17 tadzik biased as in, we put a lot of effort into it ourselves, so our opinion may be a bit off compared to what the outsiders would say
17:17 Martin90 PerlJam right ;)
17:18 Martin90 but what you feel will perl 6 push perl 5 out in next two years ?
17:18 PerlJam Martin90: Perl 5 isn't going anywhere for a long time.
17:18 vendethiel well, if you want to compare language X and Y, I don't think the best idea is too ask somebody who used both
17:18 tadzik I don't think anything will push Perl 5 out in the next 20 years :)
17:18 vendethiel it's probably better to ask people working on X and people working on Y :-)
17:18 jnthn PerlJam: http://rakudo.org/2014/05/05/announce-rakudo-star-release-2014-04/
17:19 BenGoldberg There is still perl4 code out there, in use today.
17:19 PerlJam jnthn++
17:19 * BenGoldberg feels sorry for the poor fellows who have to maintain it ;)
17:19 PerlJam Martin90: see rakudo.org  :)
17:20 Martin90 do you know who is in developers teem for perl 6 ?
17:20 tadzik we are :o
17:20 PerlJam Martin90: us!
17:20 vendethiel people in this channel :p
17:20 Martin90 Lary Wall ? ;)
17:20 BenGoldberg Surprisingly, no
17:20 tadzik he's here somewhere to
17:20 PerlJam no?
17:20 vendethiel Unsurprisingly, no :p
17:20 tadzik too
17:20 nwc10 BenGoldberg: your information is now out of date
17:21 Martin90 I ve heard Randal Shwartz is there
17:21 PerlJam I've never seen Randal here.
17:21 tadzik M<TAB> says he's not
17:21 nwc10 BenGoldberg: but only fairly recently, and not massively wrong either.
17:21 BenGoldberg Ahh
17:21 PerlJam In fact, I've seen him more on #git than #perl even.
17:22 arnsholt joined #perl6
17:23 Pleiades` joined #perl6
17:23 Martin90 right
17:23 Martin90 Damin conway works on perl 6 ?
17:23 Martin90 any info aut there ;)
17:24 Martin90 out*
17:24 PerlJam huh ... looks like merlyn was here once last year (and earlier too)
17:24 ajr joined #perl6
17:25 hoelzro Martin90: Damian used to be pretty involved, but I think that he has other priorities these days
17:25 hoelzro suffice to say, anyone who's seriously contributing (and a few cheerleaders like myself ;) ) are here
17:25 PerlJam He's still touring and giving Perl 6 presentations
17:25 tadzik I know for a fact that he offers his guidance when you ask him how to interpret the specs he wrote :D
17:26 hoelzro heh
17:27 PerlJam Martin90: anyway, install Rakudo and play with it.  You'll find there's lots of neat stuff in the language.
17:28 Martin90 PerlJam, I am going to do that ;)
17:28 hoelzro there's a Perl 6 book online
17:28 hoelzro but it's something like 2 years out of date, I think?
17:28 jnthn Sent the R* announce to the mailing lists too.
17:28 tadzik it is
17:28 hoelzro someone should bring it up to speed
17:28 jnthn If anybody wants to do the Wikipedia updates, feel free...I need dinner :)
17:29 TimToady the main difference between Perl 5 and Perl 6 is that Perl 6 fixes most of the problems mentioned in the 361 RFCs that people came up with in 2000
17:29 PerlJam jnthn++ get some food!  :)
17:29 hoelzro I noticed when I read it long ago that it skimped on some of the more advanced features as well
17:29 Martin90 Why is see perl 6 always connected with parrot ?
17:29 PerlJam hoelzro: well volunteered!  ;)
17:30 PerlJam Martin90: because parrot was originally designed as the VM that Perl 6 would use.
17:30 jnthn bbl &
17:30 Martin90 I always see perl 6 and parrot in  articles
17:30 hoelzro PerlJam: I would if I had time =)
17:30 hoelzro I might get a round to it one day
17:30 hoelzro but if I did, I would need a proofreader with better Perl 6 fu than I
17:30 PerlJam hoelzro: woolfy and lizmat have *bunches* of round tuits if you need some :)
17:30 Martin90 I see but do we really need V for perl ?
17:30 Martin90 VM*
17:30 colomon ==> Fetching IUP
17:30 colomon ==> Building IUP
17:31 colomon No such method 'stage' for invocant of type 'X::Parameter::InvalidType'
17:31 colomon in sub gen-result-failure at ./smoker:11
17:31 colomon in sub MAIN at ./smoker:53
17:31 hoelzro I have a tendency to talk big about Perl 6 projects, but never get around to them =/
17:31 colomon in block  at ./smoker:4
17:31 [Coke] Martin90: spoken like someone who has never hacked on the perl 5 core! ;)
17:31 colomon Both parrot and jvm smoke tests die there ATM.
17:31 TimToady Martin90: for a long time people treated them as synonymous, but parrot evolved into a VM for many languages, and Perl 6 evolved into a langauge for many VMs, so the visions diverged
17:31 [Coke] going forward, you're more like to see rakudo tied to moarvm, not parrot. (though it will continue to target parrot for the foreseable future)
17:32 Martin90 Coke, yo uare right in some way ;) Why you are poke in pler core ;)
17:33 PerlJam hoelzro: yeah, I know the feeling.  There's always lots to do, it's hard to do them all.
17:33 Martin90 TimToady, hanks ;)
17:33 Martin90 thanks
17:33 PerlJam hoelzro: though, last night I did something I'd been meaning to do, I got started on https://github.com/perlpilot/p6-Git-Wrapper
17:34 hoelzro oh, nice!
17:34 hoelzro I started on the perl6-syntax repo myself =)
17:34 PerlJam it's not nice yet, but it's workable for simple needs.
17:34 hoelzro so I'm finally getting around to some Perl 6-y things
17:36 rurban joined #perl6
17:37 FROGGS colomon: dunno if this open PR would help: https://github.com/mrhdias/perl6-IUP/pulls
17:38 colomon FROGGS: I dunno, it failed gracefully up until sometime this month....
17:38 retupmoca I was looking at making IUP use LibraryMake a couple weeks back, but I'm not sure how to install the C library on my system :/
17:44 PerlJam What's the little S11 crossed out on the panda icons on modules.perl6.org supposed to signify exactly?
17:45 benabik That they don't conform to S11?
17:45 PerlJam yeah, but what does that *mean*?
17:46 PerlJam or, how is conformance determined?
17:46 retupmoca whether the META.info has a 'provides' line
17:49 PerlJam so ... S11 doesn't contain the word "provides" and S22 says that it must be META6.json and that "
17:49 PerlJam "provides" is optional
17:50 FROGGS PerlJam: yes, there was a redesign in March, and we need to catch up
17:51 PerlJam oh, that would explain my confusion.   I hadn't really noticed the S11 designations before, so I assumed they were part of the "redesign"
17:51 FROGGS we're are currently working on the cpan.org indexer, and when that is in place, the S11 icon thingy will change anyway
17:51 FROGGS no, the icon you see was introduced in december
17:52 PerlJam panda has made me look at modules.perl6.org less than I once did  :-)
17:52 PerlJam panda++
17:54 kaleem joined #perl6
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18:00 masak aww, missed a Martin90! :)
18:00 masak others++ # good job
18:01 TimToady obviously he loves Perl if he has a .pl extension on his network address :)
18:02 FROGGS yeah, I wanted to mention the PLPW but then he vanished :/
18:02 FROGGS because there is much Perl 6 going on
18:04 vendethiel there is :-)
18:05 treehug88 joined #perl6
18:05 Alula joined #perl6
18:05 btyler joined #perl6
18:07 TimToady some people think there's too much going on, but that's a nice problem to have
18:07 vendethiel TimToady: as a beginner/newcomer, that doesn't seem like a problem ! :)
18:09 Sqirrel joined #perl6
18:20 timotimo when will we remove "non-blocking I/O" from the "not quite there yet" feature list in the rakudo star announcements?
18:22 * tadzik is now officially going to yapc::eu
18:28 colomon tadzik++
18:30 araujo joined #perl6
18:30 araujo joined #perl6
18:32 FROGGS damn, we still have that nqp-m Win32 x86 problem... "MAST::Local index out of range"
18:33 nwc10 when/how does that happen?
18:33 nwc10 the error message could do with improving - I feel that it should also show the two values used in the comparison that causes the failure
18:34 nwc10 and also, the two places that currently have that same message should differ
18:34 FROGGS nwc10: Building NQP ...
18:34 FROGGS C:\Perl\bin\perl.exe Configure.pl --prefix=C:\rakudo --backends=moar --make-install
18:34 FROGGS Found C:\rakudo/bin/moar.exe version 2014.04, which is new enough.
18:34 FROGGS Cleaning up ...
18:34 FROGGS Microsoft (R) Program Maintenance Utility, Version 10.00.30319.01
18:34 FROGGS Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. Alle Rechte vorbehalten.
18:34 FROGGS Microsoft (R) Program Maintenance Utility, Version 10.00.30319.01
18:34 FROGGS Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. Alle Rechte vorbehalten.
18:34 FROGGS C:\Perl\bin\perl.exe -MExtUtils::Command -e mkpath gen\moar\stage1\gen
18:34 FROGGS C:\Perl\bin\perl.exe tools\build\gen-cat.pl moar src\how\Archetypes.nqp src\how\RoleToRoleApplier.nqp  src\how\NQPConcreteRoleHOW.nqp src\how\RoleToClassApplier.n
18:34 FROGGS qp  src\how\NQPCurriedRoleHOW.nqp src\how\NQPParametricRoleHOW.nqp  src\how\NQPClassHOW.nqp src\how\NQPNativeHOW.nqp  src\how\NQPAttribute.nqp src\how\NQPModuleHOW.nqp  s
18:34 FROGGS rc\how\EXPORTHOW.nqp > gen\moar\stage1\nqpmo.nqp
18:34 FROGGS C:\rakudo\bin\moar --libpath=src\vm\moar\stage0 src\vm\moar\stage0\nqp.moarvm --bootstrap --setting=NULL --no-regex-lib --target=mbc  --output=gen\moar\stage1\nqp
18:34 dalek specs: 2cdc917 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
18:34 dalek specs: Spec Supply.reduce
18:34 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/2cdc91761e
18:34 benabik ~.~
18:34 FROGGS mo.moarvm gen\moar\stage1\nqpmo.nqp
18:34 FROGGS MAST::Local index out of range
18:34 FROGGS at gen/moar/stage2/QAST.nqp:4818  (src\vm\moar\stage0/QAST.moarvm:assemble_to_file:19)
18:34 FROGGS from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:61  (src\vm\moar\stage0/NQPHLL.moarvm:mbc:61)
18:34 FROGGS from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1327  (src\vm\moar\stage0/NQPHLL.moarvm::79)
18:34 FROGGS from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1315  (src\vm\moar\stage0/NQPHLL.moarvm:compile:164)
18:34 FROGGS from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1073  (src\vm\moar\stage0/NQPHLL.moarvm:eval:53)
18:34 nwc10 OK, I don't see it on x86 linux, which is curious
18:34 FROGGS from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1282  (src\vm\moar\stage0/NQPHLL.moarvm:evalfiles:105)
18:34 FROGGS from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1212  (src\vm\moar\stage0/NQPHLL.moarvm:command_eval:292)
18:34 FROGGS from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1161  (src\vm\moar\stage0/NQPHLL.moarvm:command_line:122)
18:34 FROGGS from gen/moar/stage2/NQP.nqp:3697  (src\vm\moar\stage0\nqp.moarvm:MAIN:18)
18:34 FROGGS from gen/moar/stage2/NQP.nqp:3692  (src\vm\moar\stage0\nqp.moarvm::335)
18:34 nwc10 and presuambly not on jnthn's machine, which is 64 bit?
18:34 FROGGS from <unknown>:1  (src\vm\moar\stage0\nqp.moarvm::8)
18:34 FROGGS
18:34 FROGGS damn!
18:34 FROGGS https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/ed7f3e4455c33669f58b
18:35 FROGGS I'm sorry ó.ò
18:35 FROGGS I don't see that on my 64bit Win7 either
18:35 FROGGS I just built a rakudo-star msi for parrot backend and wanted to do the same for moar
18:37 vendethiel damn spam
18:37 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
18:37 Woodi heh, I was just compiling moar on debian and wondering... Microsoft (R)... What is going on ??
18:38 Woodi FROGGS: np :)
18:38 nwc10 FROGGS: can you fake it by compiling the MoarVM "byte"code on a different system, and just running the tests on Win32?
18:39 FROGGS nwc10: hmmm, good question
18:41 FROGGS I can also try to copy over my moar binary, and use that to build nqp
18:41 FROGGS ... on a x64
18:48 molaf joined #perl6
18:49 nwc10 FROGGS: hangon, is that the first thing that NQP tries to build?
18:50 FROGGS yes, and that is weird, see:
18:50 FROGGS src\mast\compiler.c:753 MAST::Local index out of range 0 >= 1
18:50 FROGGS it thinks that 0 >= 1
18:51 nwc10 you edited it to show more diagnostics?
18:51 FROGGS yes
18:51 FROGGS DIE(vm, "%s:%d MAST::Local index out of range %d >= %d", __FILE__, __LINE__, l->index, ws->cur_frame->num_locals);
18:51 nwc10 did you use the correct format strings?
18:51 nwc10 oh, no you didn't
18:51 FROGGS ohh?
18:51 nwc10 l->index is MVMint64
18:51 FROGGS %ld then, right?
18:51 nwc10 I've been staring at that code most of Sunday. :-)
18:51 nwc10 %lld
18:52 FROGGS k
18:52 nwc10 actually, %llu
18:52 nwc10 and I would add that there is quite some inconsistency about what's 64 bit and what's 32 bit
18:52 nwc10 but that's way down in the list of "things to see to"
18:54 FROGGS src\mast\compiler.c:753 MAST::Local index out of range 4294967296 >= 43
18:54 FROGGS :/
18:54 nwc10 Oh, I've seen *that* one
18:55 nwc10 OK, not quite that one
18:57 dwarring joined #perl6
18:58 nwc10 I mailed you 2 patches, which probably won't solve it
18:58 nwc10 I'm still playing at breaking stuff
18:58 FROGGS cool, trying...
18:59 nwc10 if they do fix it, I wonder what broke it and when
19:06 * [Coke] rages at this SQL that goes exponential if I try to union one.more.thing.
19:07 PerlJam [Coke]: missing index?
19:07 nwc10 "it will be fixed in the next version of MySQL" :-)
19:08 [Coke] it's Oracle. I have 3 subqueries defined as "with ..."; not sure there's a place to -put- an index.
19:09 [Coke] cost (via explain plan) when it's zippy is 348; cost when it's evil is only 367. :P
19:10 PerlJam you've discovered oracles' magic constant!
19:10 FROGGS nwc10: it continues!
19:11 nwc10 FROGGS: oh, *interesting*
19:11 nwc10 so, I wonder what point it broke.
19:12 nwc10 Pi takes 12 or so minutes to build MoarVM, and I don't know if it ever worked on ARM, so I don't want to try to bisect
19:13 benabik bisect does require having a known good point.  :-D
19:13 virtualsue joined #perl6
19:13 PerlJam nwc10: no cross compiler?
19:13 nwc10 so, yes, my question is if anyone had tried to build NQP on MoarVM on Win32 before
19:14 nwc10 PerlJam: is MoarVM cross compilable? Who knows
19:14 nwc10 also no known good start point
19:14 FROGGS nwc10: that it does not work for windows x86 is a fact for long time now... (long for the lifetime of moarvm at least)
19:14 nwc10 15 isn't *insanely* slow actually. It's the non good point
19:14 nwc10 FROGGS: I thought that it was just the Nativecall. It was actually much earlier? The NQP stuff?
19:15 nwc10 given that it's taking 8 or so hours for stage mast
19:15 nwc10 I'm prepared to wait for the Pi to finish natively
19:15 FROGGS I know that the build was already broken when JimmyZ++ actively worked on implementing the IO ops
19:15 nwc10 OK. Interesting
19:15 nwc10 did I accidentally fix it for Win32 too?
19:16 FROGGS :o)
19:16 FROGGS I'm in rakudo's state mast now
19:16 FROGGS it build
19:16 nwc10 Said patches are arguably ready to go in, but I was going to lob them to the list when I'd stressed them a bit more on x86 and x86_64 linux
19:16 nwc10 the Pi is in the NQP tests with unsigned chars
19:16 nwc10 (ie no funky flags)
19:17 dalek rakudo/nom: 9995d08 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (3 files):
19:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement Supply.reduce, test and announce it
19:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9995d08a6c
19:17 dalek roast: 6b01eb2 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/reduce.t:
19:17 dalek roast: Add tests for Supply.reduce
19:17 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6b01eb29fd
19:19 brrt joined #perl6
19:21 dalek roast: 91bbf6e | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/reduce.t:
19:21 dalek roast: Make (+) do the coercing
19:21 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/91bbf6e164
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19:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 709f630 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Any.pm:
19:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove () from :v:k:kv:p: hash/array slices
19:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/709f630bec
19:42 lizmat m: ({a => 1}<a b c>:v).perl.say
19:42 camelia rakudo-moar fb27b4: OUTPUT«(1, (), ())␤»
19:43 lizmat $ perl6 -e '({a => 1}<a b c>:v).perl.say'
19:43 lizmat (1,)
19:44 lizmat sergot: ^^^
19:56 BenGoldberg n: ({a => 1}<a b c>:v).perl.say
19:56 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to KERNEL Hash.postcircumfix:<{ }>, unused named v␤  at <unknown> line 0 (KERNEL Hash.postcircumfix:<{ }> @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 186 (postcircumfix:<{ }> @ 5) ␤  at /tmp/SGN2cpc…»
19:57 FROGGS :/
19:57 FROGGS Unhandled exception: java.lang.StackOverflowError when building Perl6::Action on Win32 x86
19:59 lizmat BenGoldberg: niecza doesn't do array/hash slice adverbs afaik
19:59 * BenGoldberg realizes that. :)
20:04 cognominal__ just did a small pull request : https://github.com/perl6/nqp/pull/168
20:05 dalek nqp: 03349b2 | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
20:05 dalek nqp: Fixing --target=parse on nqp
20:05 dalek nqp:
20:05 dalek nqp: Was working fine on rakudo
20:05 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/03349b24bc
20:05 dalek nqp: 0d764f8 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
20:05 dalek nqp: Merge pull request #168 from cognominal/master
20:05 dalek nqp:
20:05 dalek nqp: Fixing --target=parse on nqp
20:05 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0d764f8e65
20:05 FROGGS cognominal++
20:07 cognominal__ FROGGS++ # thanks
20:12 dalek perl6-roast-data: f894557 | coke++ | / (6 files):
20:12 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
20:12 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/f894557d0e
20:13 [Coke] growing number of supply failures for jvm & moar.
20:13 lizmat also on moar ?
20:13 * lizmat looks
20:14 [Coke] https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/blob/master/log/rakudo.jvm_summary.out#L2306
20:14 [Coke] https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/blob/master/log/rakudo.moar_summary.out#L2288
20:14 FROGGS rakudo star release candiates for windows (as msi):
20:14 FROGGS http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.04-moar.msi    (7.5MB)
20:14 FROGGS http://froggs.de/perl6/rakudo-star-2014.04-parrot.msi (17.3MB)
20:14 FROGGS please test
20:15 lizmat moar's errors seem to be watch_path frragilness
20:16 lizmat the jvm errors are interesting
20:16 FROGGS ahh, the rakudo@parrot checkout is like 10 hours old
20:16 lizmat j: class A { method a (A:D:) {...} }; A.a
20:17 camelia rakudo-jvm fb27b4: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:17 lizmat j: class A { method a (A:D:) {...} }; A.new.a
20:17 camelia rakudo-jvm fb27b4: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Stub code executed␤  in throw (gen/jvm/CORE.setting:11226)␤  in sink (gen/jvm/CORE.setting:12664)␤  in MAIN (gen/jvm/main.nqp:47)␤  in  (gen/jvm/main.nqp:41)␤  in  (gen/jvm/main.nqp)␤␤»
20:17 lizmat j: class A { method a (A:D:) {...} }; A.a
20:17 camelia rakudo-jvm fb27b4: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Stub code executed␤  in throw (gen/jvm/CORE.setting:11226)␤  in sink (gen/jvm/CORE.setting:12664)␤  in MAIN (gen/jvm/main.nqp:47)␤  in  (gen/jvm/main.nqp:41)␤  in  (gen/jvm/main.nqp)␤␤»
20:17 lizmat m: class A { method a (A:D:) {...} }; A.a
20:17 camelia rakudo-moar fb27b4: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤  in method a at /tmp/UtLTPYwwWR:1␤  in block  at /tmp/UtLTPYwwWR:1␤␤»
20:17 lizmat jvm is wrong in this respect
20:18 lizmat ergo: D: doesn't work in signatures on jvm
20:18 lizmat I will mark those tests as "todo" for jvm
20:18 benabik D: indeed.
20:19 jnthn lizmat: Whoa...how on earth did hat not get noticed agaes ago...
20:20 lizmat I have no idea ... :-(
20:23 lizmat seems (TypeName:D:) works
20:23 lizmat but (TypeName:D $self:) does not
20:23 moritz that'd explain it
20:23 lizmat e.g. method do(Supply:D $self: &side_effect) {
20:23 jnthn wat...
20:23 lizmat eh?
20:24 lizmat did I do something wrong ?
20:24 moritz j: say 42
20:24 camelia rakudo-jvm fb27b4: OUTPUT«42␤»
20:25 moritz j: class A { method a (A:D:) { 42 }; method b(A:D $self:) { 23 } }; say A.a; say A.b
20:25 camelia rakudo-jvm fb27b4: OUTPUT«42␤23␤»
20:25 jnthn lizmat: No, the bug...
20:25 moritz seems to work in neither case
20:26 dalek roast: cd68374 | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2012-day14.t:
20:26 dalek roast: created RT ticket for fudged test
20:26 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/cd68374c85
20:29 user23 joined #perl6
20:32 FROGGS j: class A { method a (A:D:) { say nqp::isconcrete(self) }; method b(A:D $self:) { say nqp::isconcrete($self) } }; A.a; A.b
20:32 camelia rakudo-jvm fb27b4: OUTPUT«0␤0␤»
20:33 dalek rakudo/nom: 4cd39b9 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
20:33 dalek rakudo/nom: disable specific optimization only on parrot, jnthn++
20:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4cd39b95ea
20:33 jnthn FROGGS++
20:45 dalek roast: 0128a9b | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/ (19 files):
20:45 dalek roast: Fudge (A:D $self:) signature related for JVM
20:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0128a9b19c
20:45 lizmat *tests
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21:02 PerlJam m: class C { has @.a; }; my $a = C.new( :a<a b c d> ); my $b = $a.clone; $b.a.[2] = "foo"; say $a; say $b
21:02 camelia rakudo-moar 709f63: OUTPUT«C.new(a => Array.new("a", "b", "foo", "d"))␤C.new(a => Array.new("a", "b", "foo", "d"))␤»
21:03 PerlJam How do I clone properly so that $a and $b are independent of each other?
21:03 jnthn PerlJam: Write a method clone in your class
21:04 jnthn It's just a method; if the default doesn't work for you, you can do something else.
21:04 PerlJam there's no deepclone or anything?
21:04 jnthn No. That's tricky enough it's for modules, imo.
21:04 PerlJam okie.  Thanks.
21:04 jnthn I think that's been the conclusion when this has come up before, anyway, and it makes sense to me.
21:07 jnthn Note in this case you can probably get away with method clone() { nextwith(a => @a.clone) } or so
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21:28 dalek rakudo/nom: f374d87 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
21:28 dalek rakudo/nom: If Supply in on() is live, the resulting is also
21:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f374d871dc
21:29 benabik But what if the Supply in on() is Memorex?
21:30 lizmat only if all Supplies in on()n are Memorex, is the resulting supply a Memorex
21:30 * lizmat needs eleep
21:30 lizmat so, gnight #perl6!
21:31 benabik But how do you tell the difference?  ;-)
21:31 benabik 'night
21:43 ivanshmakov joined #perl6
21:44 woolfy nwc10++ (and many more ++) for pioneering Perl 6 on Raspberry Pi.  Wow.
21:46 timotimo for when seeing one letter per second on a desktop isn't slow enough for you just yet
21:53 hoelzro so I can't believe this, but I found a task at my job where I can finish faster in Perl 6 than any other language =)
21:53 hoelzro (at least if I could get this thing working right)
21:53 hoelzro can anyone give me a hand on this:
21:53 hoelzro perl6 -n -e 'BEGIN { my $max = 0 }; $max max= .chars.say; END { $max.say }'
21:54 hoelzro I can't figure out how to declare $max once but have it referred to within the loop implied by -n
21:55 PerlJam maybe you want to use a state var instead?
21:55 hoelzro ahhhh
21:55 hoelzro good call
21:59 PerlJam It would be interesting if you could do something like  perl6 -e 'my $max = 0'  -n -e '$max max= .chars; END { $max.say }'
22:03 hoelzro that would be nice
22:04 hoelzro -e is supposed to imply 'no strict' though, rigth?
22:04 hoelzro *right
22:05 PerlJam I think so.  But I doubt it's implemented.
22:06 hoelzro same here
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22:20 cognominal__ r: [42,666]».say
22:20 camelia rakudo-jvm 4cd39b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
22:20 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 4cd39b: OUTPUT«666␤42␤»
22:22 thou hoelzro: state works; so does: ls -1 | perl6 -n -e 'BEGIN { our $max = 0 }; our $max += 1; END { say "Max: $max"; };'
22:23 thou hmm, for that particular case, my works, too: ls -1 | perl6 -n -e 'my $max += 1; END { say "Max: $max"; };'
22:24 thou Not sure why...
22:25 timotimo oh, that's interesting
22:25 timotimo have it give you --target=ast and/or --target=optimize
22:28 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
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22:38 segomos 666
22:56 thou timotimo: Was that (--target=ast) directed at me (re my $max)?
22:59 thou By the way, I'm unable to get j-spectest to complete. I get somewhere into S06-* and almost all tests result in "No subtests run". I have plenty of RAM available on the system, but the java proc is using 2.6G or so RAM, maybe it's got some leak and hits a resource limit?
23:00 cooper joined #perl6
23:00 thou Anyone else have that? I'm on OS X 10.9.2, java 1.7.0_55 64-bit
23:09 colomon joined #perl6
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23:36 telex joined #perl6
23:41 colomon Cannot add breakpoint to unknown file 'Mu.pm'
23:41 colomon darn
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