Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-06-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:23 colomon Just wrote if 5 { … } when I meant if $code.key eq "5" { … }
01:24 colomon I blame given / when
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02:09 colomon just used a p6 script to read a triangle mesh out of an AutoCAD DXF file and write it out as an STL file.
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04:46 TimToady m: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a { say $a.perl }
04:46 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤[3, 4]␤»
04:46 TimToady m: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a [$x,$y] { say $a.perl }
04:46 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2)␤Array.new(3, 4)␤»
04:47 TimToady rakudobug, loses itemization of $a
04:48 TimToady m: for [1,2],[3,4] -> \a [$x,$y] { say a.perl }
04:48 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤[3, 4]␤»
04:48 TimToady oddly, that works
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05:11 FROGGS_ m: temp $*EXECUTABLE = "$*EXECUTABLE -MFoo"
05:11 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«Can only use 'temp' on a container␤  in sub prefix:<temp> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:17266␤  in block  at /tmp/MhEiV5a9SI:1␤␤»
05:13 FROGGS_ .tell lizmat I need that to work for panda/eleven, and your last commit broke it: temp $*EXECUTABLE = "$*EXECUTABLE -MFoo"; shell(...)
05:13 yoleaux FROGGS_: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
05:18 FROGGS_ .tell lizmat in general, why do you make things immutable at all?
05:18 yoleaux FROGGS_: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
05:19 FROGGS_ bbl &
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06:32 sergot morning o/
06:35 TimToady .tell FROGGS I'm inclined to side with lizmat++ on this one; why would it ever make sense to violate the contract of an IO::Path by appending switches and turning it into a string?  You need your own $*HOWTOINVOKE command or some such.
06:35 yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
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06:53 FROGGS o/
06:53 yoleaux 06:35Z <TimToady> FROGGS: I'm inclined to side with lizmat++ on this one; why would it ever make sense to violate the contract of an IO::Path by appending switches and turning it into a string?  You need your own $*HOWTOINVOKE command or some such.
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07:22 masak morning, #perl6
07:22 sergot masaku \o/
07:22 sergot FROGGS \o/
07:23 FROGGS TimToady: okay
07:23 FROGGS .tell lizmat nvm :o)
07:23 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
07:30 masak sergocie! \o/
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07:41 pdcawley lizmat: it's been a while since I've seen me too.
07:43 * moritz sends a mirror to pdcawley
07:44 pdcawley yikes!
07:44 pdcawley Shit! Is that what I look like?
07:45 timotimo yelwacdp ← this is what you look like, i'm afraid.
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09:37 masak it's a pity that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comp​osition_over_inheritance#Drawbacks doesn't even acknowledge the existence of 'handles'.
09:38 FROGGS masak: that page is editable :o)
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10:17 ren1us There seem to be a whole bunch of classes that look really really useful, but aren't documented anywhere.  Or maybe I'm just the worst Hide & Seek player ever.
10:18 ren1us Example: IO::Socket::INET is shown in the graph image for IO, but I can't find any sort of documentation to even confirm that it exists.
10:19 ren1us Can anyone sorta point me in the right direction?
10:23 Timbus S:IO::INET has no docs, as  far as i know
10:23 Timbus its based on the perl5 version
10:38 masak FROGGS: editing it now.
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10:44 FROGGS ren1us: are you interesting in writing the documentation for it?
10:44 ren1us I'd love to, if I knew where to look to figure it out.
10:45 moritz ren1us: doc.perl6.org doesn't claim to be comprehensive; so far IO::Socket::INET is documented in the specs
10:45 timotimo at the very worst, you can look at the source code, in rakudo/rakudo src/core/IO/...
10:45 moritz http://perlcabal.org/syn/S32/IO​.html#IO%3A%3ASocket%3A%3AINET
10:46 moritz it's under the "Here Be Dragons" headline, so probably not very reliable, but better than nothing
10:46 timotimo aye.
10:46 ren1us Well this is going to be an adventure.
10:46 timotimo the state of socket speccing, testing and doccing is a bit shameful
10:46 FROGGS yeah :/
10:47 timotimo sadly, i have only very limited experience with sockets in general
10:47 donaldh I have async socket testing on my todo list :-)
10:47 timotimo ... do we even have all the unconnected UDP stuff implemented?
10:47 FROGGS donaldh++ # :o)
10:50 timotimo and/or specced ...
10:51 donaldh IO::Socket::INET is somewhat specced and somewhat implemented :-/
10:52 * donaldh thinks IO::Socket and IO::Handle could be merged somewhat
10:54 timotimo isn't the handle a role or superclass?
10:54 * donaldh but IO::Handle has lots of file specifics
10:54 timotimo oh
10:59 moritz timotimo: iirc we have no UDP whatsoever
10:59 moritz ren1us: two hints: first, ask here if stuff is unclear
10:59 timotimo well, who still uses UDP nowadays anyway? :)
11:00 donaldh I am gradually working on factoring out the bakend specifics from IO.pm before considering some possible refactorings.
11:00 moritz ren1us: second, doc.perl6.org trys to document stuff that actually works right now, so if in doubt, rather stick with how rakudo does it, not with what the specs say
11:00 moritz (this applies at least to areas where the specs are as vague as sockets)
11:01 ren1us I'm actually not sure what Rakudo thinks it's doing, at present.
11:01 ren1us Let's see if I can do this right
11:01 ren1us m: IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('http://www.whatismyip.com'), :port(80));
11:01 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«Failed to resolve host name␤  in method initialize at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:19957␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:19941␤  in block  at /tmp/3v_oDdr3nC:1␤␤»
11:01 ren1us That's interesting.
11:01 ren1us When I run it in Rakudo, I get this: getaddrinfo failed: http: Success
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11:02 moritz ren1us: it's not a valid hostname
11:02 moritz ren1us: with http:// schema and all
11:03 ren1us And that's why I should just turn off my computer after 4 am.
11:03 moritz ren1us: also, IO on camelia is somewhat limited (due to security considerations)
11:03 donaldh ren1us: have a look at t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t for examples
11:04 donaldh https://github.com/perl6/roast/bl​ob/master/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t
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11:05 timotimo i do have to say, the IO refactoring work is a step in the right direction
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11:18 FROGGS m: IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('www.whatismyip.com'), :port(80));
11:18 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: ( no output )
11:19 FROGGS m: say IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('www.whatismyip.com'), :port(80)).get;
11:19 timotimo you need to send an actual get request first
11:19 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
11:19 FROGGS ahh, of course :o)
11:19 timotimo what is your name?
11:19 timotimo what is your request?
11:20 timotimo what is your favourite HTTP version?
11:20 FROGGS m: my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('www.whatismyip.com'), :port(80)); $s.send("GET h/ HTTP/1.1\nHost: www.whatismyip.com\nAccept: */*\nConnection: Close\n\n"); say $s.get
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
11:20 FROGGS m: my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('www.whatismyip.com'), :port(80)); $s.send("GET / HTTP/1.1\nHost: www.whatismyip.com\nAccept: */*\nConnection: Close\n\n"); say $s.get
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden
11:21 FROGGS m: my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<www.cpan.org>, :port(80)); $s.send("GET http://www.cpan.org/MIRRORED.BY HTTP/1.1\nHost: www.cpan.org\nAccept: */*\nConnection: Close\n\n"); say $s.lines
11:21 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«HTTP/1.1 200 OK
11:21 timotimo well, that can't be all of it
11:22 moritz there's no closing » in that camelia output
11:22 moritz which means something is fishy
11:27 sergot m: use HTTP::Request;
11:27 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find HTTP::Request in any of: /home/p6eval/.perl6/2014.05-127-g57555c8/lib, /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/​languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/​languages/perl6/site/lib,…»
11:28 sergot m: sub a { return ''; }; say a().defined;
11:28 FROGGS star: use HTTP::Request;
11:28 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:28 camelia star-m 2014.04: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find HTTP::Request in any of: /home/p6eval/.perl6/2014.04/lib, /home/p6eval/star-2014.04/​languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/star-2014.04/l​anguages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/star-2014.04/languages/perl6/lib␤»
11:28 camelia ..star-p 2014.04: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find HTTP::Request in any of: /home/p6eval/.perl6/2014.04/lib, /home/p6eval/star-2014.04/lib/parr​ot/6.1.0/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/star-2014.04/lib/parro​t/6.1.0/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/star-2014.04/lib/pa…»
11:28 sergot m: sub a { return Any; }; say a().defined;
11:28 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:29 sergot $ perl6 -e ''
11:29 sergot use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context
11:29 sergot Do you have the same?
11:30 sergot on latest moar,nqp and rakudo
11:30 sergot It's always when running any script.
11:33 moritz it means "bug"
11:35 sergot :)
11:35 lizmat timotimo: "[12:59:59]  <timotimo> well, who still uses UDP nowadays anyway? :)"
11:35 yoleaux 05:13Z <FROGGS_> lizmat: I need that to work for panda/eleven, and your last commit broke it: temp $*EXECUTABLE = "$*EXECUTABLE -MFoo"; shell(...)
11:35 yoleaux 05:18Z <FROGGS_> lizmat: in general, why do you make things immutable at all?
11:35 yoleaux 07:23Z <FROGGS> lizmat: nvm :o)
11:35 lizmat at former $work, UDP is used to log a *lot* of data in a way that will never ever interfere with the functioning of the web siite
11:36 timotimo aye, my statement wasn't serious
11:36 lizmat ah, ok  :-)
11:36 masak FROGGS: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?​title=Composition_over_inheritance&am​p;diff=611214665&amp;oldid=603010573
11:37 FROGGS masak++
11:37 masak sergot: I don't have it, on Rakudo 90cd584.
11:38 masak sergot: rebuilding and trying again.
11:38 lizmat sergot: I'm not seeing that warning
11:38 FROGGS m: '' # do we see it here?
11:38 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: ( no output )
11:39 masak FROGGS: note that that's a program with a string literal in it.
11:39 masak FROGGS: whereas sergot's program was just an empty program.
11:39 FROGGS ahh, true
11:39 * masak .oO( the beauty and intricacy of nested quoting languages )
11:39 FROGGS sergot: I don't get that warning locally either
11:39 sergot masak: actually it doesn't matter if it's empty program or not, I got this errmsg anyway. :)
11:40 masak oh, ok.
11:40 lizmat sergot: what OS are you using ?
11:40 timotimo sergot: how can the format for cookies work; are cookies limited to never contain = or ;?
11:40 sergot I'm on Ubuntu now, 12.04 (k 3.12) iirc
11:41 sergot Yea, this OS is managed by my company using puppet so... afaik it's 12.04
11:43 sergot I got this errmsg during make install:
11:43 sergot ./perl6-m --target=mbc --output=lib/Test.moarvm lib/Test.pm
11:43 sergot use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context
11:43 sergot use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context
11:43 sergot use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context
11:43 sergot use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context
11:43 sergot and that's not the only one case
11:43 timotimo doesn't help that we don't get file/line number with warnings on moarvm
11:43 sergot always 2x numeric and 2x string
11:45 lizmat sergot: does the command "id" exist on your system, and if so, what does it output ?
11:45 sergot timotimo: about cookies: for now cookies can contain ; and = . There are some fields without =, like: HttpOnly, secure, etc.
11:45 timotimo how does the format cope? o_O
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11:49 sergot timotimo: did you see my p6 Http::Cookies ?
11:49 sergot It's not done yet. :)
11:49 timotimo that's what i looked at
11:49 lizmat found the reason for sergot's warnings
11:49 lizmat it was my last commit
11:50 lizmat oddly enough, this should only have happened if he'd be calling $*USER or $*GROUP
11:50 lizmat apparently something is, or I don't understand how Proxy.new works
11:52 lizmat r: Proxy.new( FETCH => { say "fetching" } )
11:52 camelia rakudo-jvm 57555c: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
11:52 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 57555c: OUTPUT«fetching␤»
11:53 timotimo i *think* in PROCESS::<$USER> //= $on_demand_fetch, you are actually directly fetching
11:53 timotimo you may want to := that instead of //=
11:53 sergot timotimo: what's wrong with this module? :)
11:54 sergot timotimo: cookies I meant
11:54 timotimo if someone sets a cookie that has a not-nice character in its data, your format goes kablooey, no?
11:55 thou joined #perl6
11:55 lizmat timotimo: just creating a proxy seems to fetch already ?
11:55 sergot true
11:56 sergot timotimo: good point
11:58 sergot timotimo++: thanks :)
11:59 sergot I should check if cookies can contain ; and = in name/values of fields.
12:00 ren1us Figuring out socket stuff is painful.  I can never tell if the issues are on my end or because the servers are being weird.
12:01 ren1us m: my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('www.zephyrr.com'), :port(80)); $s.send("GET /dev/ip.php HTTP/1.1\nHost: zephyrr.com\nConnection: close\n\n"); $s.lines;
12:01 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: ( no output )
12:02 ren1us m: my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('www.zephyrr.com'), :port(80)); $s.send("GET /dev/ip.php HTTP/1.1\nHost: zephyrr.com\nConnection: close\n\n"); say $s.lines;
12:02 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«HTTP/1.1 200 OK
12:02 FROGGS m: Proxy.new( FETCH => { say "fetching" } ); 1
12:02 camelia rakudo-moar 57555c: OUTPUT«fetching␤fetching␤»
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12:03 jnthn That double fetching is no doubt 'cus the code-gen for sink is LTA...
12:03 jnthn That's high on my list of stuff too streamline for performance.
12:03 FROGGS that is only what you sink :P
12:04 dalek rakudo/nom: f146fec | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Process.pm:
12:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Revert "Implement $*USER and $*GROUP (not yet specced)"
12:04 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:04 dalek rakudo/nom: There is something wrong with my understanding of how either Proxy.new works,
12:04 dalek rakudo/nom: or matching, or whatever, but if your user name / group contains non \w
12:04 dalek rakudo/nom: characters, you will get 4 warnings everytime you start up.  And I don't have
12:04 dalek rakudo/nom: time to look at why exactly now.
12:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f146fecb10
12:05 lizmat I'll be offline most of today, tomorrow and Wednesday
12:05 lizmat hence the revert right now
12:05 FROGGS k
12:05 FROGGS lizmat: have a good time :o)
12:05 lizmat that should work out fine: 1 emergenxy social, one Amsterdam PM meeting, one visit to an old friend
12:06 lizmat life is hard  :-)
12:06 FROGGS hehe
12:06 lizmat commuting&
12:06 FROGGS o/
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12:14 ren1us Can someone point me towards the source for IO::Socket::INET?  Trying to dissect something weird.
12:14 moritz src/core/IO/Socket/INET.pm
12:15 moritz and it has methods from the role in src/core/IO/Socket.pm (iirc)
12:16 FROGGS like recv, yes
12:17 ren1us Do you have a link to the github project, or is this something that's lurking in my install directory already?
12:17 timotimo it's in your rakudo/
12:18 moritz https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/b​lob/nom/src/core/IO/Socket/INET.pm otherwise
12:18 Pleiades` joined #perl6
12:19 ren1us yeah the only INET.pm on my system is under perl5
12:19 FROGGS ren1us: it is not installed as INET.pm
12:20 FROGGS ren1us: rakudo's source files are mangled into a single CORE-SETTING file, which will compiled and then installed
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12:35 ren1us What's the INET.lines() method supposed to be returning?  The entire content response (effectively the same as Socket.recv())?
12:35 FROGGS the entire document as an array of lines
12:38 ren1us So should it be returning stuff like HTTP headers?
12:38 moritz if you make a HTTP request, yes
12:38 ren1us Huh.  Because I'm getting some... bizarreness: http://pastebin.com/p09sQvSS
12:39 FROGGS "Transfer-Encoding: chunked" <--
12:42 ren1us Isn't chunked encoding still feeding the chunks in order?
12:42 xfix ren1us, if you don't want chunks, don't claim to be HTTP 1.1 user agent.
12:42 ren1us I don't particularly care if I get chunks or not.
12:42 xfix The "c" letter is chunk size in this case.
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12:43 ren1us Yeah, that's perfectly reasonable.  The c shows up in the $s.recv call, which comes in perfectly clean.
12:43 ren1us What I'm interested in is the $s.lines, which is just returning a mess.
12:46 xfix ren1us, try using `.perl` method.
12:46 xfix say $s.lines.perl;
12:46 xfix Which will upload data in more debuggable form (Perl 6 literals).
12:47 xfix r-p: my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('www.zephyrr.com'), :port(80)); $s.send("GET /dev/ip.php HTTP/1.1\nHost: zephyrr.com\nConnection: close\n\n"); say $s.lines.perl;
12:47 camelia rakudo-parrot f146fe: OUTPUT«("HTTP/1.1 200 OK\r", "Server: nginx/1.6.0\r", "Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 12:47:29 GMT\r", "Content-Type: text/html\r", "Transfer-Encoding: chunked\r", "Connection: close\r", "\r", "e\r", "192.241.193.85\r", "0\r", "\r").list␤»
12:47 xfix Hm, why `.lines` doesn't understand `\r\n`...
12:48 ren1us The .perl version looks totally reasonable.
12:48 xfix The reason is that `\r` breaks the output.
12:48 xfix In terminal, `\r` means to go to the beginning of the line.
12:49 xfix `say` separates array elements by spaces. Therefore, you overwrite old lines while writing.
12:49 ren1us That actually makes perfect sense.
12:49 xfix Now I wonder why Rakudo doesn't handle `\r`...
12:50 xfix Any  :$nl = "\n",
12:50 xfix oh
12:50 xfix r-p: my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('www.zephyrr.com'), :port(80), :nl("\r\n")); $s.send("GET /dev/ip.php HTTP/1.1\nHost: zephyrr.com\nConnection: close\n\n"); say $s.lines.perl;
12:50 camelia rakudo-parrot f146fe: OUTPUT«("HTTP/1.1 200 OK\r", "Server: nginx/1.6.0\r", "Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 12:50:23 GMT\r", "Content-Type: text/html\r", "Transfer-Encoding: chunked\r", "Connection: close\r", "\r", "e\r", "192.241.193.85\r", "0\r", "\r").list␤»
12:50 xfix Huh?
12:51 Timbus $.input-line-separator
12:52 xfix It seems that `IO` class doesn't recognize `nl` attribute.
12:52 Timbus no, its using input-line-separator
12:53 xfix So, why :$nl is in spec?
12:53 xfix http://perlcabal.org/syn/S32/IO.html#line_330
12:54 Timbus i dont even think there was a spec when IO:S:INET was written
12:54 xfix r-p: my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host('www.zephyrr.com'), :port(80)); $s.input-line-separator = "\r\n"; $s.send("GET /dev/ip.php HTTP/1.1\nHost: zephyrr.com\nConnection: close\n\n"); say $s.lines.perl;
12:54 camelia rakudo-parrot f146fe: OUTPUT«("HTTP/1.1 200 OK", "Server: nginx/1.6.0", "Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 12:54:26 GMT", "Content-Type: text/html", "Transfer-Encoding: chunked", "Connection: close", "", "e", "192.241.193.85", "0", "").list␤»
12:54 xfix ren1us, ^
12:55 xfix I wonder if input-line-separator could be a regular expression...
12:56 ren1us And it comes out clean without the .perl, too.
12:56 ren1us Perfect.
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12:56 timotimo xfix: from a performance standpoint, that's pretty punishing
12:56 xfix Hm, right.
12:56 xfix AWK somehow managed to have this, however.
12:57 xfix (not that this feature is worth it for Perl regexes)
12:58 xfix (in awk, you can write code like (shell code) `echo -n 'axeduxeeded' | awk 1 RS="[xd]"`)
12:59 xfix But considering how complex Perl regular expressions are, this is probably too complex for a very small gain.
12:59 jnthn Yeah, as-a-regex is a pain for *many* reasons.
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13:29 [Coke] /scroll end
13:29 [Coke] whoops. :)
13:32 dalek rakudo-star-daily: ca59a32 | coke++ | log/ (13 files):
13:32 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
13:32 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/ca59a32cbc
13:32 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 1d63ff3 | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
13:32 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
13:32 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/1d63ff355a
13:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: 8ba053c | coke++ | / (6 files):
13:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
13:32 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/8ba053c957
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13:40 jsn_ hey
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14:01 [Coke] ho
14:02 [Coke] rakudo.jvm failed 676 tests yesterday.
14:03 thou joined #perl6
14:03 [Coke] maybe something ran slow...
14:03 [Coke] looks like no change on moar/jvm R* module failures.
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14:44 Ulti is there any sugar for doing cube root?
14:50 colomon m: say 27 ** (1/3)
14:50 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«3␤»
14:50 flussence m: sub prefix:<∛>(Numeric $x) { $x ** (1/3) }; say ∛8
14:50 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«2␤»
14:50 colomon m: say 27.roots(3)
14:50 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«3+0i -1.5+2.59807621135332i -1.5-2.59807621135332i␤»
14:50 colomon don't think there's anything specific for cube roots
14:51 masak ...but for a very small fee, you get to name and define your own math subroutines!
14:52 masak m: sub cube-root($x) { $x ** (1/3) }; say cube-root 27
14:52 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«3␤»
14:52 martinzaremba joined #perl6
14:58 [Coke] m: say 27.roots(3).grep({$_.narrow ~~ Real})
14:58 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«3+0i␤»
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15:07 Ulti am I right in thinking just adding "is cache" to a sub means if the exact same parameters come in the same result is returned from a cache?
15:08 masak m: say 27.roots(3).grep(!*.im)
15:08 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«3+0i␤»
15:08 Ulti yeah I just did ** (1/3)
15:08 jnthn That's the idea, yes. Note it tends to make most sense of value types.
15:08 jnthn *on
15:08 masak Ulti: `is cached`, I believe.
15:08 Ulti never really understood why sqrt gets its own name :)
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15:09 masak Ulti: then you didn't do much in the way of distance calculation :)
15:09 Ulti jnthn yeah I guess someone might change the contents of my container
15:09 Ulti masak well cuberoot is used just as frequently
15:09 Ulti fairly rare you see ** (1/4)
15:10 jnthn decommute &
15:10 masak Ulti: for the math I've seen, cube roots are rare and square roots common. YMMV.
15:10 masak Ulti: notice that distance calculation in space ends up being sqrt($x**2 + $y**2 + $z**2) -- no cube root
15:12 Ulti lots of the more magical stats things involve cuberoots
15:12 Ulti the ones that have magic numbers assuming normality too :|
15:14 masak anyway, if you really need it in your program, defining it takes one line.
15:14 masak maybe call it 'cbrt' for consistency...
15:14 * masak .oO( 'sqrt' was named back in the time when vowels were in short supply )
15:14 Ulti well I'm used to scientific notation for roots anyway
15:14 dalek Perlito: 94274ab | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
15:14 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - perl6 - transform 'use vars' into 'our'
15:14 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/94274aba0d
15:14 colomon joined #perl6
15:16 Ulti like I've mever seen a square() function meaning ** 2
15:16 Ulti or sqr() I guess
15:16 Ulti maybe sq() since the rt might be for root
15:19 * Ulti is probably going to end up producing Math::Simple at this rate
15:19 Ulti though log2() feels a bit ott but on the other hand that plus ln() covers practically every log base anyone cares about
15:26 guru joined #perl6
15:27 dalek ecosystem: 0487b27 | (Konrad Borowski)++ | META.list:
15:27 dalek ecosystem: Add Math::Tau to the list of modules (τ = 2π)
15:27 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/0487b27c74
15:32 masak :)
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15:57 * [Coke] ponders adopting a jnthn-like life, teaching people about cool stuff and then hacking on cooler stuff as time permits.
16:05 donaldh :D
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16:12 * jnthn back :)
16:12 japhb I finally have the first draft of my why-perl6 talk written, whew!
16:12 japhb Comments much appreciated: http://japhb.github.io/japhb-talks/​WIP/why-perl6/lightning-talk.html#/
16:14 martinzaremba joined #perl6
16:14 jnthn japhb: On #4 I mighta gone for .pick(2) to make the "pick 2" meme :)
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16:16 japhb jnthn: That was intentionally a '.pick(2) subverted' attempt
16:16 japhb :-)
16:16 jnthn japhb: On #12 I mighta gone in the opposite order (most verbose/explicit form to most sugary form)
16:16 jnthn japhb: Oh, that works too :)
16:17 japhb jnthn: I debated that ... why do you think most verbose first?  To show continued simplification?
16:17 jnthn Yes.
16:17 jnthn Most obvious what's going on to least obvious.
16:17 japhb I was thinking "You start with the easiest, and then when you need the bigger guns, you bring them out"
16:17 japhb Oh, good point.
16:18 jnthn I may even have gone so far as to pick an example where I could show it in each of the 3 forms, but the way you have it is also good in so far as it shows *why* there are multiple forms by giving examples where each is the right choice. :)
16:19 japhb Yeah, that latter was what I was hoping for.
16:19 jnthn In "powerful built-ins", somehow showing classify feels like an example of a really nice one...
16:19 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
16:19 japhb I debated TIMTOWTDI several times (it's even in the extras/ideas cache after the end), but for now I'm holding back until I can come up with a really good way to theme it.
16:20 japhb jnthn: Hmmm, that's a good idea (classify)
16:20 jnthn The output on slide 30 seems wrong
16:21 jnthn (doesn't match the program)
16:21 japhb jnthn: Wait, why?
16:21 japhb I thought I actually ran that one.
16:22 jnthn oh
16:22 jnthn sorry, I misread
16:22 jnthn it's fine
16:22 japhb For all the code I could, I actually wrote them out as examples in https://github.com/japhb/japhb-talks​/tree/master/WIP/why-perl6/examples and ran them
16:22 japhb Hmmm, that does make clear that it's easy to misread though.
16:23 japhb .oO( "You think it's cute now ..." )
16:23 japhb (And for the code I got from other sources, the links are in the markdown source file for the talk)
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16:26 FROGGS japhb: that's not a lightning talk as as the url suggests
16:26 japhb FROGGS: It started as one.  Then it ... expanded.  :-)
16:26 japhb Note the 'WIP' in the URL.  ;-)
16:26 FROGGS yeah, it did :o)
16:27 btyler japhb: any chance this talk will be recorded/made public? the slides look really fantastic
16:27 FROGGS yes, seen the XXXX at around slide 90
16:27 japhb btyler: The intent was always that this be a gift to the community.
16:27 FROGGS this is easily a 40mins talk
16:27 japhb I don't have a venue or anything yet, but I will try to make sure it is recorded if/when I give it.
16:28 FROGGS japhb++ # and a good one
16:28 jnthn japhb: Why JSON::Tiny doesn't do it, it may be good to use .made in place of .ast in this example as in this case it's not really an AST...
16:28 japhb But I'm happy for others to give it to.
16:28 btyler japhb: awesome! a wonderful gift indeed
16:29 jnthn Minor mis-alignment on #79
16:30 jnthn On 95, I'd title it "Meta-object programming"
16:30 jnthn japhb++ # that's awesome stuff
16:31 japhb Gah, had to switch wi-fi.
16:31 japhb jnthn: re: .made, that's a good point.  I was sticking with original source code to be able to claim "I didn't make this up, it's the real source", but maybe the original source needs to change.  :-)
16:32 japhb jnthn: What is the misalignment on slide #79?
16:32 jnthn japhb: One space too many
16:33 japhb I'll switch the title for #95
16:33 jnthn (on one of the repl input lines)
16:34 japhb Oh, yeah, I remember adding a couple spaces to make the slide more readable (because otherwise you end up with a couple very similar identifiers offset by a character, and it ends up being harder to see what's different between them -- at least for me)
16:35 japhb And thanks for the positive feedback, guys.  It took me quite a while to get this far, glad to know it's turning out well.  :-)
16:36 colomon joined #perl6
16:37 * japhb afk for a few to get breakfast, but will try to check back throughout the day
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16:50 vendethiel .u ∛
16:50 yoleaux U+221B CUBE ROOT [Sm] (∛)
16:53 TimToady masak: it's not your fault, but it bothers me that the composition article mentions mixins as a workaround to the problem of having to reimplement methods; to me, mixins are inheritance, not composition
16:53 TimToady also, would be nice if it actually mentioned "delegation" somewhere
16:55 vendethiel TimToady: "mixins are inheritance" this somewhat boils down to semantics vs implementation imho
16:58 TimToady transparent delegation to a parent is always inheritance in my book, regardless of whether you set it up at compile time or run time
17:02 jnthn vendethiel: The behavior is to override methods in the mixed-in-to object, which to me is inheritance semantics...
17:02 TimToady what's really funny is how languages use composition to implement the data storage for inheritance
17:03 vendethiel I mean semantic as in "is a" vs "does"
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17:05 TimToady yes, mixins also have to compose the new class that is being derived :)
17:07 TimToady or "get to compose" depending on whether you think it's a special priviledge
17:08 dalek Perlito: 67df646 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
17:08 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - 'use constant' - wip
17:08 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/67df646d8a
17:08 guru joined #perl6
17:08 * jnthn builds all the latest things
17:09 * TimToady already bualt all the earliest things...
17:10 TimToady jnthn: did you see my bug at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2014-06-02#i_8805055
17:11 jnthn TimToady: No, I've really only been vaguely following stuff at all in recent days
17:12 jnthn TimToady: That looks like the fast-path binding stuff gets things right, and the sub-signature forces the slow-path binder which then gets it wrong...
17:13 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
17:13 masak TimToady: yeah, I noticed that too. (the mixins-as-workaround thing)
17:14 * colomon generated ~15MB of STL files from a single AutoCAD DXF file using a p6 script this morning.  On the slow side, alas...
17:14 rurban joined #perl6
17:14 [Coke] which p6?
17:14 TimToady the one with slow strings, probably :P
17:16 rurban joined #perl6
17:18 * jnthn wonders if he should try and fix that this month :)
17:20 * vendethiel wonders if he should just fix the month itself...
17:23 jnthn .ask lizmat if S02-magicals\KERNEL.rakudo.moar failing test 27 is anything to be expected from current churn, or if it's likely a platform-specific thing I should look into
17:23 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
17:25 TimToady June would be much more fixed if emperors didn't keep stealing days from February...
17:25 TimToady adding leap seconds to the end of June doesn't help either
17:31 dalek Perlito: e16e072 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
17:31 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - 'use constant'
17:31 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/e16e072a17
17:31 japhb If you can't steal days from other months, what's the point of being emperor?
17:33 TimToady btw, forgot to mention that I installed a Warnsdorff solver into http://rosettacode.org/wiki/​Solve_a_Hidato_puzzle#Perl_6, and then used it to add entries for http://rosettacode.org/wiki/S​olve_a_Numbrix_puzzle#Perl_6 and http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Solv​e_a_Holy_Knight%27s_tour#Perl_6
17:33 dalek Perlito: f8653da | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
17:33 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - TODO update (use vars/use constant)
17:33 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/f8653da7fd
17:33 TimToady unfortunately J passed us by, so we're back in sixth place, and Ruby is also breathing down our necks
17:34 TimToady for the good news, we're about to pass C
17:35 japhb It's really cool how much the various language communities get into it.
17:35 TimToady well, it's mostly the insane people that get into it :)
17:36 japhb Where is the leaderboard?
17:36 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta​_Code/Rank_languages_by_popularity
17:37 FROGGS these REXX solutions make me shudder
17:38 FROGGS like this: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/​Solve_a_Numbrix_puzzle#REXX
17:38 TimToady though if you run the program there, you'll discover we're only 2 behind C at this point
17:38 TimToady yes, REXX is a very different culture
17:39 [Coke] tcl: we're number one!
17:40 xfix http://modules.perl6.org/
17:40 xfix τ = 2π
17:40 xfix Something went wrong here.
17:40 xfix (probably some silly encoding issue, I will check)
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17:44 japhb [Coke]: Man, the TCL community must have some serious completionists.
17:46 martinzaremba joined #perl6
17:46 xfix On codegolf.se, everything has to be done in GolfScript, no matter what else enters.
17:48 molaf joined #perl6
17:53 TimToady japhb: it's mostly one serious completionist on RC :)
17:58 nwc10 so, is Perl 6 finished when it overtakes TCL to get top spot? :-)
18:00 [Coke] if that's our goal, yes, we're finished.
18:02 nwc10 less flippantly, even if Perl 6 does overtake TCL, it won't be easy to stay top
18:02 nwc10 so, nothing will ever be finished finished
18:07 ajr_ If you don't keep coming up with material for journalists to speculate about, they'll start asking "Is X dead?"
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18:09 jnthn I figured out how that weird <-> $_ { ... } bug comes about...
18:10 pecastro joined #perl6
18:10 masak ooh
18:17 aboutGod left #perl6
18:17 jnthn I figure I need to eat before fixing it :)
18:19 FROGGS std: <.&uri_alpha>
18:19 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 121m␤»
18:19 FROGGS std: <[\w]+.&uri_alpha>
18:19 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 121m␤»
18:19 FROGGS m: <.&uri_alpha>
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: ( no output )
18:19 TimToady nice qw thinges there
18:19 FROGGS m: <[\w]+.&uri_alpha>
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: ( no output )
18:20 * TimToady suggests adding //
18:22 TimToady std: / <[\w]+.&uri_alpha> /
18:22 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Unable to parse metachar at /tmp/ndVMvclxpH line 1:â�¤------> [32m/ [33mâ��[31m<[\w]+.&uri_alpha> /[0mâ�¤Couldn't find final '>'; gave up at /tmp/ndVMvclxpH line 1:â�¤------> [32m/ <[\w]+[33mâ��[31m.&uri_alpha> /[0mâ�¤    â€¦Â»
18:24 FROGGS m: my token foo { <digit> }; say "123" ~~ / <[\d]+foo>+ / # how do I make that work?
18:24 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«No such method 'foo' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13260␤  in block  at /tmp/exmutOgT87:1␤␤»
18:24 FROGGS I cannot put an & there
18:24 FROGGS TimToady: ahh, now I understand you comment :o)
18:24 rurban joined #perl6
18:30 FROGGS ahh w/e, I am turning it into a group
18:32 * masak .oO( meta-laziness: can't even be bothered to spell out 'whatever'... ) :P
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18:32 FROGGS *g*
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18:50 dalek perl6-roast-data: 988fa3e | coke++ | / (6 files):
18:50 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:50 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/988fa3e9e3
18:52 japhb masak, did you see the draft slides I posted earlier?  Comments welcome ...
18:52 [Coke] still no clean test runs for rakudo.
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19:05 FROGGS star-m: use URI; say IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI.subparse("http://perl6.org foo", :rule<absolute_URI>)
19:05 camelia star-m 2014.04: OUTPUT«「http://perl6.org」␤ scheme => 「http」␤␤»
19:06 FROGGS TimToady: is there a way to use the token/method absolute_URI in a regex? so that I could match :g?
19:06 jnthn Try <IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI::absolute_URI>
19:07 FROGGS star-m: use URI; say "http://perl6.org foo" ~~ / <IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI::absolute_URI> /
19:07 camelia star-m 2014.04: OUTPUT«「http://perl6.org」␤ IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI::absolute_URI => 「http://perl6.org」␤  scheme => 「http」␤␤»
19:07 FROGGS O.o
19:07 FROGGS I swear it did not work locally
19:11 masak japhb: looking.
19:11 japhb masak: Thanks!
19:12 masak ...I'm gonna second whoever reacted to the .pick(3) thing in the backlog.
19:12 japhb I figure about a half dozen people on this channel (give or take) probably add up to over half of all Perl 6 talks in the wild, so I should gather feedback from those people.  :-)
19:13 masak it's like, I see what you're trying to do, but...
19:13 japhb Awww, too bad.  Humor fell flat.  :-/
19:13 TimToady I liked it
19:13 masak it's not that it's not funny.
19:13 masak it's more like it's a rather un-impressive example of .pick :)
19:14 TimToady it's poeticial
19:14 japhb Ah, OK, got it.
19:14 japhb Thanks, TimToady.
19:14 masak ok, moving on.
19:15 masak m: my @values = (1..100).pick(10); say (minmax @values).perl
19:15 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«2..91␤»
19:15 masak oh, it *is* a Range.
19:20 sergot good night o/
19:20 japhb o/\
19:20 japhb Heh.  Tried to wave, ended up clapping
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19:35 masak japhb: nice. great examples.
19:35 masak japhb: I'm curious: where does the name "metacombinators" come from? I would have called that a combinator.
19:37 TimToady japhb: rule arraylist  {  <value> * % [ \, ]   }   <-- the [ \, ] looks like a fossil to me, since { <value> *% \, } should have the same effect nowadays
19:37 TimToady only the space after the <value> and the space after the \, matter
19:39 TimToady since Mouq++ fixed it
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19:41 jnthn masak: Comes from me :)
19:42 jnthn masak: on is a combinator for writing combinators :)
19:42 jnthn masak: So I somewhat tounge-in-cheekily called it a metacombinator, and it seems to have stuck :)
19:42 itz hmm I wonder if Apple's Swift lang is FLOSS?
19:43 TimToady japhb: I'd tend to write <-["\\\t\n]> as <-[ " \\ \t \n ]> because you can
19:43 jnthn Rightly, let's see if I can fix that <-> $_ { } bug...
19:44 FROGGS that is supposed to be the same as -> $_ is rw { } ?
19:44 jnthn That also has the bug I guess
19:45 jnthn r: my @a = 1..4; for @a <-> $_ { $_++ }; say @a
19:45 jnthn m: my @a = 1..4; for @a -> $_ is rw { $_++ }; say @a
19:45 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4␤»
19:45 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,jvm} f146fe: OUTPUT«2 3 4 5␤»
19:45 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4␤»
19:45 masak jnthn: oh, 'on' is the metacombinator. ok.
19:47 TimToady hmm, DUMP is not exactly "Perl 6"
19:47 martinzaremba joined #perl6
19:47 FROGGS it is as much Perl 6 as nqp:: is
19:48 FROGGS and tbh, I don't use DUMP at all
19:48 * masak either
19:48 jnthn It can be a useful guts debugging aid.
19:49 TimToady just wondering if it belongs in "Why Perl6?" is all.
19:49 jnthn *nod*
19:49 jnthn Yeah, point.
19:49 TimToady also the architecture slide that has PIRT, should that be PIR
19:49 jnthn PIRT is a thing.
19:49 TimToady okay
19:50 jnthn (It's the thing QAST becomes, then it gets turned into text.)
19:50 jnthn (It was this way with the intention that some day the textual state may vanish.)
19:51 TimToady well, everything will vanish someday...
19:51 FROGGS hehe
19:51 jnthn Right. May as well factor in preparation :P
19:51 jnthn OK, think I got a fix. :)
19:51 * jnthn spectests it.
19:52 FROGGS quick jnthn is quick
19:52 TimToady "Look on my works and despair!"  --King Ozymandeus
19:53 TimToady *dias
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20:02 japhb bak from lunch, reading backlog
20:02 japhb masak: Glad you like it.  :-)
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom: bd78aef | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix <-> $_ { } / -> $_ is rw { } pointy blocks.
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom: We accidentally still emitted the code to bind an implicit $_ from the
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom: outer scope, scribbling over the declared parameter $_.
20:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bd78aef595
20:02 japhb masak: My patter was going to talk about 'on', actually, but that doesn't show up well in the slide.
20:03 japhb TimToady: I bet it is.  I used the real JSON::Tiny code, but between your comment and jnthn's .made comment, I think JSON::Tiny could use an update.  :-)
20:03 japhb (unless it's intentionally using old syntax for some backwards-compat reason)
20:04 japhb Ah, jnthn replied about 'on'.  :-)
20:04 jnthn OK, what else do I need to fix... :)
20:05 japhb jnthn: My perl6-debug-m problems?  I haven't backlogged whether that was fixed in the last couple days.
20:05 jnthn Hmm
20:05 jnthn If it was, I didn't do it...
20:05 jnthn Really need some tests...
20:07 colomon jnthn: jvm issues? seem to be two rakudo-jvm issues bothering URI and ABC.  unfortunately I haven't had the time to golf for you.
20:08 japhb TimToady: re: DUMP, I mostly put that in to indicate that we take serious debugging seriously.  But yes, I agree it's not spec.  But then, the same can said of the debugger, which I also want to show.  As soon as I have it working.  :-)
20:08 jnthn Ah, some NullPointerException and pre-comp thingy?
20:08 colomon pre-comp thingy for ABC
20:08 jnthn m: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a [$x,$y] { say $a.perl }
20:08 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2)␤Array.new(3, 4)␤»
20:08 jnthn m: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a [$x,$y] { say nqp::iscont($a) }
20:08 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«0␤0␤»
20:08 jnthn m: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a (*@) { say nqp::iscont($a) }
20:08 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«1␤1␤»
20:09 jnthn m: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a (*@) { say $a.perl }
20:09 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤[3, 4]␤»
20:09 jnthn m: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a [*@] { say $a.perl }
20:09 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2)␤Array.new(3, 4)␤»
20:09 jnthn hmmmm...
20:09 jnthn p: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a [*@] { say $a.perl }
20:09 camelia rakudo-parrot f146fe: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2)␤Array.new(3, 4)␤»
20:09 jnthn p: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a (*@) { say $a.perl }
20:10 camelia rakudo-parrot f146fe: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤[3, 4]␤»
20:10 * jnthn can guess...
20:10 colomon jnthn:  and java.lang.NullPointerException in URI, yes!  You're more on top of this than I am.  ;)
20:10 * colomon was off trying it in another window to see what the error was.
20:11 japhb Re: Architecture slide, that's a transcription into PIC format of a slide I saw in a jnthn talk -- slide 25 of http://jnthn.net/papers/2013-yapceu-jvm.pdf updated with MoarVM.
20:12 SevenWolf joined #perl6
20:12 japhb (Source at https://github.com/japhb/japhb-talks/blob/m​aster/WIP/why-perl6/images/architecture.pic if anyone is interested in what that looks like.)
20:17 colomon japhb: is there more to the talk somewhere?  I seem to have missed the URL...
20:17 FROGGS the uri problem is something about the default_port, which is a sub call to another package
20:18 japhb colomon: I'm not sure I catch your meaning.  Are you looking for http://japhb.github.io/japhb-talks/​WIP/why-perl6/lightning-talk.html#/ ?
20:18 colomon japhb++ # yes, yes I am
20:18 dalek Perlito: dfd91f9 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
20:18 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - js - fix subscripted constant
20:18 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/dfd91f975b
20:18 btyler japhb: is the CORE of nqp in the architecture slide meant to be color coded as p6?
20:19 japhb D'oh!
20:19 japhb Nope.  I had that on my list to fix, and totally forgot about it before uploading.
20:20 japhb (I needed to look up the most idiomatic way in PIC to describe the change of color depending on which 'compiler' instance I was drawing, and had shelved the shaving of that particular yak.)
20:29 * jnthn discovers that Rakudo's compile-time arg passing analysis is smarter than he is today...
20:29 jnthn "This won't work." "Oh yes it will... --optimize=off" "lol runtime error...told you" "Oh."
20:29 vendethiel :D feels good tho, no ?
20:30 jnthn m: for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a [$x, $y] { say $a.perl }
20:30 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2)␤Array.new(3, 4)␤»
20:30 jnthn That now doesn't lose the containerization
20:30 jnthn spectset attempt 2 :)
20:30 rurban joined #perl6
20:30 jnthn vendethiel: Yes. :)
20:31 jnthn I did the wrong fix and lost a slurpiness thingy
20:31 jnthn Anyways, here's hoping things work out this time :)
20:33 colomon working out this time++
20:33 japhb colomon: Any comments on the slides?
20:34 colomon japhb: only just got to closures. (juggling several balls at the moment, while 33% asleep.)
20:34 colomon japhb: first impression is they are very nice
20:34 japhb TimToady: BTW, aside from DUMP and possibly the Rakudo-specific bits of the debugger and architecture, anything else you object to on "It's not Perl 6" grounds or so?
20:35 japhb colomon: Understood!  And thanks.  :-)
20:36 colomon japhb:  my only slight hesitation is in the user-defined operator slide -- we try to tell people not to overload an operator to do different things on different types, after all.  but your example is very cute, so I would hesitate to change it.
20:36 jnthn TimToady: Was there an RT ticket for the bug?
20:36 japhb colomon: :-)
20:36 masak jnthn: don't think so.
20:36 masak oh wait.
20:36 * masak double-czechs
20:37 jnthn m: use Test; for [1,2],[3,4] -> $a [$x, $y] { isa_ok $a.VAR, Scalar }; done;
20:37 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - The object is-a 'Scalar'␤# Actual type: Array␤not ok 2 - The object is-a 'Scalar'␤# Actual type: Array␤1..2␤# Looks like you failed 2 tests of 2␤»
20:37 TimToady I don't think there was a ticket yet--you fixed it too fast
20:37 TimToady japhb: not really complaining about the DUMP even; part of Perl 6 is its culture, including tech culture
20:38 sivoais joined #perl6
20:38 japhb Ah, OK.
20:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 394a74d | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
20:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't override a specified sigil in [...] unpack.
20:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/394a74dfbf
20:38 colomon afk # nom shopping
20:39 masak TimToady: I'm not 100% sure https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=122011 is a valid bug.
20:39 dalek roast: 4e6880c | jnthn++ | S06-signature/unpack-array.t:
20:39 dalek roast: Container handling test for "-> $a [$x, $y] { }".
20:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4e6880c61f
20:40 masak TimToady: or rather, I agree with TheDamian in principle, but I can't find any evidence in S04 for either interpretation.
20:40 jnthn On 122011, it's clear to me that FIRST should only execute if we iterate the loop at least once.
20:40 jnthn Because otherwise there's no lexical scope for the FIRST phaser to exist in.
20:40 masak jnthn: ...but that argument could equally well be applied to LAST...
20:41 jnthn masak: Right.
20:41 masak jnthn: and LAST *does* fire!
20:41 jnthn masak: I was about to add I agree with Damian here.
20:41 masak jnthn: besides, there's always static scopes, so that argument doesn't work either...
20:41 jnthn masak: yeah but those are argh.
20:42 jnthn You should have to be using BEGIN or other BEGIN-time constructs to encounter those, or doing weird crap with our-scopes.
20:42 masak which *means* we'd prefer FIRST/lAST to only fire if there are iterations.
20:42 masak so LAST firing anyway is the bug, just as TheDamian expects.
20:42 jnthn imho, yes
20:42 jnthn Well, will let TimToady++ make a ruling before I go fixing...
20:43 masak I wonder if any spectests would break with that new behavior...
20:43 * masak goes looking
20:46 jnthn m: sub a {"foo"}; a(); say &a.soft
20:46 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
20:46 jnthn m: sub a {"foo"}; a(); say &a.WHAT
20:46 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«(Sub)␤»
20:47 jnthn m: say (:2nd).perl
20:47 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/DFtwbdC53oâ�¤Malformed radix numberâ�¤at /tmp/DFtwbdC53o:1â�¤------> [32msay (:2[33mâ��[31mnd).perl[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        number in radix notationâ�¤Â»
20:48 TimToady making LAST consistent with FIRST seems okay to me, though making it work within the lexical scope when it has to run after NEXT and the test is an interesting thing, at least if you don't want to clone every time through, uselessly except for the last time...
20:49 fhelmberger joined #perl6
20:49 masak I would definitely expect it to capture the lexpad of the last iteration...
20:49 jnthn std: say (:42monkeys).perl
20:49 TimToady m: for 1..10 -> $n { LAST { say $n } }
20:49 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
20:49 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«10␤»
20:49 masak right.
20:50 jnthn TimToady: Are we liberal enough that :42monkeys passes monkeys => 42? :D
20:50 TimToady m: for 10..1 -> $n { LAST { say $n } }
20:50 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
20:50 masak jnthn: STD does.
20:50 masak m: for 1..10 -> $n { last if $n == 7; LAST { say $n } }
20:50 camelia rakudo-moar f146fe: OUTPUT«7␤»
20:50 TimToady monkey => 42 was the intent
20:50 TimToady *keys
20:50 jnthn masak: It *parses* it. A semantic check could still allow just nd/rd/st
20:50 jnthn OK :)
20:50 timotimo is it terribly bad that i didn't get to writing the  weekly today?
20:50 masak jnthn: I never saw it as limited to those.
20:51 * masak hugs timotimo
20:51 masak timotimo: looking forward to reading it! <3
20:51 PerlJam timotimo: not terribly bad, no. :)
20:51 TimToady it's the beginning of the heat death of the universe!
20:51 TimToady oh wait, that was last month
20:52 masak I thought it was a bit hotter than usual this time of year...
20:52 TimToady n: say :2nd
20:52 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1355 (warn @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 266 (Mu.Str @ 15) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval…»
20:52 japhb masak: But heat death is cold ....
20:52 jnthn TimToady: STD has this:
20:52 jnthn | $<num> = [\d+] <identifier> [ <?before <[ \[ \( \< \{ ]>> <.sorry("Extra argument not allowed; pair already has argument of " ~ $<num>.Str)> <.circumfix> ]?
20:52 jnthn TimToady: What the <.circumfix>? Copy-pasta?
20:52 jnthn *Why
20:53 jnthn It's unreachable thanks to the .sorry, no?
20:53 jnthn Oh wait...sorry continues, doens't it...
20:53 TimToady std: :42nd($_)
20:53 jnthn It's panic that doesn't.
20:53 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Extra argument not allowed; pair already has argument of 42 at /tmp/BIoyLPbzaS line 1:�------> [32m:42nd[33m�[31m($_)[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 123m�»
20:53 jnthn std: :42nd($_); :69th($_);
20:53 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Extra argument not allowed; pair already has argument of 42 at /tmp/Otxwr9VVBn line 1:�------> [32m:42nd[33m�[31m($_); :69th($_);[0m�Extra argument not allowed; pair already has argument of 69 at /tmp/Otxwr9VVBn line 1:…»
20:54 jnthn right.
20:54 jnthn <-- slow today
20:54 masak slow heat death.
20:54 timotimo jnthn: i see you fixed the bug for arrays losing their itemness in subsignature unpacking as well as a problem with <-> $_ which i don't recall the symptoms of
20:55 timotimo anything else cool i may have missed today?
20:56 masak apparently, the heat death is cool.
20:56 jnthn timotimo: Not from me
20:56 jnthn Though if you write slowly enough then I'll maybe have :69th done in time :)
20:57 japhb Heat death is also slow, so there you go.
20:58 hoelzro https://github.com/github/li​nguist/releases/tag/v2.11.2 grrrrrrrrrr
20:58 hoelzro guess whose PR didn't make it into the release?
20:58 TimToady you need a better PR agency
20:59 masak interesting: there are *no* spectests for what LAST does with an empty loop.
20:59 masak shall I add one? :)
21:00 hoelzro TimToady: I guess so =/
21:00 hoelzro what really angers me is one of the maintainers has been merging pull requests left and right over the last 10 days
21:00 hoelzro but he's been going in reverse chronilogical order
21:00 hoelzro he even merged support for Swift as soon as that was created
21:01 japhb hoelzro: That's ... odd.  Maybe trying to catch the latest versions of multi-patched PRs?
21:01 hoelzro but the requests that have been sitting in the queue for 5 months or more are getting no recognition
21:01 japhb I'd just talk to him and say "Hey, I notice my PR from back in <date> didn't make it in.  Can you merge it now?"
21:01 hoelzro japhb: I've been looking at the activity feed; it's in descending order of the IDs
21:01 hoelzro I've @ mentioned him a number of times on the issue
21:02 hoelzro I have this guy's e-mail, but I don't know if contacting him that way would be appropriate
21:02 TimToady obviously the more recent ones have the potential to be more urgent, since the older ones obviously aren't :)
21:02 hoelzro TimToady: heh
21:02 hoelzro you know what?
21:02 hoelzro maybe I should just file a brand new pull request
21:03 japhb hoelzro: Is he GitHub staff?
21:03 hoelzro thanks btyler for your support
21:03 hoelzro japhb: yes
21:03 TimToady but maybe he just cycles, and the new ones will now be after the old ones...
21:03 japhb You could always ping him that way.  I believe there's even a #github on this network.
21:03 hoelzro haha
21:03 hoelzro hmm
21:03 hoelzro that's a good point
21:03 hoelzro it's not waiting for merging; that I can understand
21:04 hoelzro it's that the older stuff isn't even acknowledged
21:04 japhb nodnod
21:04 TimToady I remember being astounded the first time I ran into a user of rn that wanted to read newsgroups cyclically, not in order of preference
21:05 TimToady so much so that I remember his name
21:05 dalek roast: 1bb76a6 | masak++ | S04-phasers/in-loop.t:
21:05 dalek roast: [S04-phasers/in-loop.t] LAST in empty loop
21:05 dalek roast:
21:05 dalek roast: Test for #122011.
21:05 dalek roast:
21:05 dalek roast: See also backlog at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2014-06-02#i_8809555
21:05 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=122011
21:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1bb76a666d
21:08 masak jnthn: voilà, failing test ;)
21:09 jnthn masak: Woulda been good if you fadge it...
21:09 jnthn Or is this a trick to make me fix it fast? :P
21:09 masak ...mayyybeee...
21:09 masak depends.
21:09 masak is it working? :P
21:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 32e8b4a | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
21:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement :42nd form of colonpairs.
21:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/32e8b4ae92
21:10 jnthn No, 'cus I was doing ^^
21:10 dalek roast: 68c1393 | jnthn++ | S02-literals/adverbs.t:
21:10 dalek roast: Basic tests for numeric adverbs.
21:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/68c1393f3b
21:11 FROGGS does that mean I could pass :1day to Date math methods?
21:11 jnthn yes.
21:11 FROGGS nice
21:12 timotimo oh, so it's any combination of : + number + word?
21:12 timotimo and that becomes what exactly again?
21:12 FROGGS :1day will become day => 1
21:12 FROGGS right?
21:12 jnthn aye
21:13 jnthn timotimo: \d+ <identifier>
21:13 FROGGS wfm
21:14 timotimo oh
21:14 vendethiel clang warnings are really impressive, ehh...
21:14 timotimo that's cute
21:14 timotimo OpenSSL::Exploit.new(:0day)
21:14 japhb timotimo: Which one now?
21:15 japhb Or were you just trying out :0day?
21:15 timotimo just testing the syntax ;)
21:15 japhb heh
21:15 timotimo openssl is such an easy target
21:15 timotimo hey!
21:15 timotimo we can soon have goto fail in perl6, too! :D
21:15 japhb At this point, I just expect that it's real ... and I was already thinking "Great, now I have to reboot all my active sessions, sigh ...."
21:16 timotimo mhm :S
21:17 jnthn masak: hmm...actually the test file you added it to doesn't get run yet
21:17 jnthn masak: Further, tests 1/2 don't pass
21:18 masak oh, *that's* why they didn't pass.
21:18 masak I also noticed that.
21:18 masak jnthn: would it be better if I started a new file?
21:18 jnthn Did you look into why at all?
21:18 masak say, S04-phasers/last.t ?
21:18 timotimo oh my
21:18 jnthn No, we can fudge teh first two, just wondered if you'd analyzied it a bit
21:18 jnthn last.t would be fine with me, yeah
21:18 timotimo swift uses .. for ..^ and ... for ..
21:18 jnthn oh wait, does that exist?
21:19 masak jnthn: as to why, I noticed that 'NEXT' and 'LEAVE' were interleaved in at least one place.
21:19 masak jnthn: no, last.t does not exist yet.
21:19 masak I offered to create it.
21:19 masak and dump the new test in there.
21:19 jnthn masak: I misunderstood and thought you were saying to add it to an existing last.t
21:19 jnthn Anyway, can stay where it is
21:19 masak oki
21:19 masak just fudge all three?
21:19 jnthn Well, we don't run it at all yet
21:20 jnthn So I cna fudge the first 2 and add it once I fix the 3rd
21:20 masak oki \o/
21:20 * masak managed not to break anything, despite not being very careful o/
21:21 japhb .oO( The bull charged through the china shop ... and somehow managed not to knock anything over! )
21:21 masak nwc10: Python 2.7.7 gets released -- https://mail.python.org/pipermail​/python-dev/2014-June/134694.html -- HN discussion is full of py2/py3 comments -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7833550
21:22 masak nwc10: glad it's not just Perl :)
21:22 * TimToady is so glad we decided to break everything that needed breaking all at once
21:22 jnthn japhb: I'd say "that's bull", but... :)
21:27 japhb 'The second security issue is an integer
21:27 japhb overflow in the strop module. [2] (You actually have no reason
21:27 japhb whatsoever to use the strop module.)'
21:27 japhb *chuckle*
21:31 donaldh joined #perl6
21:32 * masak .oO( just strop using that module, already )
21:32 masak s/already/m'kaay?/
21:33 japhb I heard that thought in two completely different voices before and after the s///
21:33 * jnthn noms a stropwafel insecurely
21:33 japhb jnthn: Is that putting a half-eaten stropwafel back on top of the tea cup that it could now easily fall into?
21:34 masak no, it's eating it while not wearing a seatbelt.
21:34 masak or while not having fixed the heartbleed bug.
21:45 atta joined #perl6
21:47 * PerlJam wonders if it would be useful to shadow Toby Inkster's Modern Object Oriented Programming in Perl book with an equivalent one using Perl 6.
21:49 colomon joined #perl6
21:50 masak books that exist are better than books that don't. 'specially Perl 6 books.
21:55 oetiker_ joined #perl6
21:55 * timotimo off to bed
21:55 timotimo o/
21:55 timotimo make more stuff for the weekly! :)
21:58 masak ;)
21:59 Ulti where can I find the docs on writing docs? :3
21:59 Ulti POD6 is a thing now right?
21:59 masak yes.
22:00 masak we like to spell it 'Pod'.
22:00 masak see S26.
22:00 Ulti thanks
22:02 Ulti heh S26 is suitably documentation like for something documenting documentation :D
22:04 dalek roast: a20558f | jnthn++ | S04-phasers/in-loop.t:
22:04 dalek roast: Fudge and fix a warning.
22:04 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a20558f522
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: bec414d | jnthn++ | src/core/MapIter.pm:
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Ensure LAST only fires if we actually iterate.
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Fixes RT#122011.
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bec414d7c0
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: f993683 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Run S04-phasers/in-loop.t.
22:04 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=122011
22:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f99368389b
22:05 masak jnthn++
22:07 jnthn m: y/lr/rl/
22:07 camelia rakudo-moar 394a74: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/nXxpXp2BxAâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/nXxpXp2BxA:1â�¤------> [32my/lr/rl/[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤     …»
22:07 jnthn std: y/lr/rl/
22:07 camelia std ec3d853: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Bogus term at /tmp/mW6AYAYWc3 line 1 (EOF):â�¤------> [32my/lr/rl/[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤Undeclared routines:â�¤  'lr' used at line 1â�¤    'rl' used at line 1â�¤    'y' used at line 1â�¤       (in Perl 6 please use tr instead)â�¤Parse fa…»
22:08 jnthn Hmmm
22:08 jnthn I wanted to nab something from STD but...
22:10 jnthn oh, it does get it...
22:10 jnthn hmm
22:15 Sqirrel joined #perl6
22:20 dmol joined #perl6
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22:30 martinzaremba joined #perl6
22:31 japhb Are Rakudo's Perl6::Grammar and STD still far apart, or pretty close now?  (The last time I thought about it was back when Niecza was actively developed, and at that time the contrast was large enough for people to point out semi-regularly.)
22:32 jnthn No, there's been a lot of convergence.
22:33 dalek rakudo/nom: d78b631 | jnthn++ | src/core/Any.pm:
22:33 dalek rakudo/nom: Make join not explode over Str type objects.
22:33 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:33 dalek rakudo/nom: Fixes RT#120846.
22:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d78b63187d
22:33 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=120846
22:35 jnthn git commit
22:35 jnthn lol
22:35 dalek roast: 7272e0e | jnthn++ | S02-types/array.t:
22:35 dalek roast: Test for RT#120846.
22:35 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7272e0e1bc
22:35 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=120846
22:35 jnthn "This is not the window you're looking for..."
22:35 martinzaremba joined #perl6
22:40 dalek roast: 450bd71 | jnthn++ | S02-types/lazy-lists.t:
22:40 dalek roast: Test for RT#120035.
22:40 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/450bd712f3
22:40 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=120035
22:43 jnthn r: loop { CATCH { default { say 'hi' } } }
22:43 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} f99368: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
22:44 jnthn r: my $i = 0; while $i++ < 2 { when 'hi' { } }
22:44 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} f99368: ( no output )
22:45 jnthn If anybody fancies writing some tests, RT#120498 can be closed with them.
22:45 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=120498
22:45 jnthn Enough for me tonight, I think :)
22:45 masak jnthn++
22:48 jnthn FROGGS: You can probably close https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=67660 :)
22:48 skids joined #perl6
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22:49 masak ooh, and old one :)
22:50 masak an*
22:52 skids Wow, there are 42 forms of colonpair notation? :-)
22:56 Pleiades` joined #perl6
22:57 jnthn m: :100colon_pair_notations.perl.say
22:57 camelia rakudo-moar f99368: OUTPUT«"colon_pair_notations" => 100␤»
22:57 jnthn :)
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23:02 jnthn 'night, #perl6
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23:16 masak wow, jnthn went to bed before me tonight? :)
23:16 masak 'night, #perl6
23:29 japhb o/
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23:58 lizmat good *, #perl6!
23:58 yoleaux 17:23Z <jnthn> lizmat: if S02-magicals\KERNEL.rakudo.moar failing test 27 is anything to be expected from current churn, or if it's likely a platform-specific thing I should look into
23:59 lizmat jnthn: it means that the kernel name is not known: if you run the fudged perl6 file, it should tell you that
23:59 lizmat r: say $*KERNEL.name  # jnthn: what does that say for you?
23:59 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} d78b63: OUTPUT«linux␤»

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