Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-06-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:51 * lizmat has arrived in Orlando
00:56 colomon \o/
00:56 perigrin \o/
00:56 perigrin but I did beat you here by a few years.
00:56 perigrin :D
00:56 * colomon is not going to be anywhere near Orlando, alas.
00:56 perigrin :(
00:56 lizmat perigrin colomon  o/
00:57 * perigrin wonders if lizmat can hear the cat complaining about her bath from there.
00:57 colomon sorry, perigrin.  I'd love to be there, but big family vacation in April, big family vacation in August, and I need to $work as much as possible in between.
00:57 lizmat I did hear something squeak  :-)
01:00 perigrin colomon: understood, next time I'll try to have it in a more family friendly location than near Disney. :)
01:00 colomon :p
01:01 perigrin (seriously though, you'll be missed ... )
01:01 colomon awww
01:02 colomon I'll certainly miss seeing everyone.
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05:01 dalek roast: 0ea4d75 | Mouq++ | S26-documentation/08-formattingcodes.t:
05:01 dalek roast: Add test for RT #114510
05:01 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0ea4d75664
05:01 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=114510
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05:13 Mouq r: my &infix:<c> = {$^a+$^b}; say 1 c 2;
05:13 camelia rakudo-jvm bcd186: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
05:13 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} bcd186: OUTPUT«3␤»
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05:36 dalek nqp: f050c36 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
05:36 dalek nqp: bump moar rev for various spesh fixes
05:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f050c36e77
05:37 dalek rakudo/nom: 5fdfc78 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
05:37 dalek rakudo/nom: bump nqp/moar rev for various spesh fixes
05:37 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5fdfc7859d
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05:45 dalek doc: eeb0dd2 | Mouq++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm:
05:45 dalek doc: Make SVG urls absolute per issue #17
05:45 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/eeb0dd217c
05:46 dalek doc: b33c6c0 | Mouq++ | lib/Language/Sets_Bags_and_Mixes.pod:
05:46 dalek doc: Add intro to Sets, Bags, and Mixes
05:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b33c6c0df8
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06:18 masak morning, #perl6
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06:19 moritz \o masak
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06:22 atroxaper masak: o/
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06:29 jnthn o/ masak
06:32 FROGGS_ masak: o/
06:36 Mouq /o/o/       \o\o\
06:36 Mouq |o|o| masak |o|o|
06:36 Mouq \o\o\      /o/o/
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06:47 masak :)
06:51 jnthn airport &
06:51 * masak leaves for airport
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07:43 dalek doc: 0216cbd | Mouq++ | / (2 files):
07:43 dalek doc: Lower headings so that they're uniform
07:43 dalek doc:
07:43 dalek doc: Classes and routines, especially when defined in language docs, are not
07:43 dalek doc: necessicarily going to written be at the right =headN for consistent
07:43 dalek doc: formatting within sub-pages
07:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0216cbdaf5
07:43 dalek doc: 5aeb785 | Mouq++ | htmlify.p6:
07:43 dalek doc: Inline &add-new in &find-definitions
07:43 dalek doc:
07:43 dalek doc: There used to be a reason for it to be a sub; no longer
07:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5aeb7856d3
07:45 Mouq "necessicarily"?
07:45 * Mouq is disappointed in himself
07:48 FROGGS *g*
07:48 FROGGS Mouq: you also take care that its test pass in the next days? so we will have a clean rakudo-star?
07:57 Mouq FROGGS: doc? Sure, done :9
07:58 FROGGS thanks :o)
07:58 FROGGS I've just seen fails yesterday
07:59 Mouq bed&
08:00 FROGGS gnight
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08:58 FROGGS arnsholt: ping
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09:46 ChoHag If I have a sub foo (:$bar) {...} and a variable $baz which may or may not be defined, how can I call foo so that bar is only set if $baz if defined?
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09:48 ChoHag And conversely, how do I change the signature so that something which isn't a Bar can get in (it's actually 'sub foo (Bar :$bar, Bar :$other_bar)')
09:49 ChoHag I forget the error message because it was yesterday, but if $baz is not set then calling foo complains because it's not a Bar.
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10:03 Timbus declare $baz as a Bar, or assign it a Bar type object
10:05 Timbus or..  foo(bar => $baz||Bar)
10:06 Timbus or, my $baz is default(Bar)
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10:54 sergot o/
10:54 sergot hi
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11:08 FROGGS m: my $baz = 42; sub foo(:$bar) { say $bar }; foo( :bar($baz.defined) )
11:08 camelia rakudo-moar 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:08 FROGGS ChoHag: ^^
11:09 FROGGS ahh, wait
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11:09 FROGGS I don't see a $baz in your example, so I don't know what you want to achieve
11:12 timotimo if $baz is defined, :bar should exist in the signature and be .defined, if it's not defined, it shall not be defined in the signature
11:12 timotimo m: sub frob(:$bar) { say $bar.defined }; my $baz; frob(bar => $baz); $baz = "hi"; frob(bar => $baz)
11:12 camelia rakudo-moar 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
11:12 timotimo ChoHag:  ^ that should be enough
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11:25 sergot Can I get a commit permission to nqp just for today? :)
11:26 FROGGS sergot: nqp would be okay I think
11:26 FROGGS moritz: can you hand that out?
11:33 psch hi #perl6 o/
11:33 FROGGS hi psch
11:34 psch FROGGS: you read the clog i assume
11:34 FROGGS I did
11:34 psch platform worries aren't over though! NativeCall fails tests 10..12 in 05-arrays.t for me
11:35 FROGGS psch: you have a 32bit machine?
11:35 psch FROGGS: a 32bit vm, yes
11:35 psch i can rerun on a real 32bit too if that does anything, although i wouldn't assume so
11:36 FROGGS no, it should fail on 32bit hardware also
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11:36 FROGGS we have that bug since a while now, and I don't know how to fix it
11:36 FROGGS psch: see https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/issues/37
11:36 psch it works if include stdint.h and pass specific bit sizes
11:37 psch but that's not really a solution i guess, seeing as perl6's int behaves as 32bit
11:37 psch and sizeof(long) is 4 too, so it should just work..
11:38 psch right, it's all in the ticket already :)
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11:38 FROGGS yeah, and I still don't know what the solution might be
11:39 psch i don't think having perl6 int vary in size is sensible
11:39 FROGGS but int is native
11:39 moritz sergot++ added to team nqp
11:39 sergot moritz++ thanks! :)
11:40 moritz that one doesn't require a CLA, so you can keep that bit afterwards :-)
11:40 FROGGS so it could/can/should? be platform specific
11:40 FROGGS perhaps I should read the spec :o)
11:40 psch oh right
11:40 psch yeah S09 #Sized types says "int32 (aka int on 32-bit machines)"
11:41 sergot moritz: ok :)
11:41 psch so it should (and does, 'my int $x = 2 ** 32; say $x; #prints 0 here) be platform specific
11:41 psch s/be/behave/
11:42 smls m: my $a := 'aa'; my $b := <bb cc dd>; sub say_two_things ($x, $y is rw) { say "thing #{++$_}: $_" for $x, $y }; say_two_things $a, $b
11:42 camelia rakudo-moar 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«thing #1: aa␤thing #2: bb␤thing #3: cc␤thing #4: dd␤»
11:42 smls ^^ Perl 6 binding + Perl 6 flattening = sigils become unreliable :(
11:42 smls without the "is rw", $y does not flatten - but that only makes it *more* confusing...
11:43 * moritz agrees
11:45 smls I really like flattening in Perl 5, where its behavior is static. But Perl 6's dynamic flattening, especially in the presence of binding etc, may end up causing more WAT than DWIM...
11:46 moritz note that Perl 5 flattening isn't totally static either
11:46 moritz push @a, mysub();
11:46 moritz will the return value of mysub() flatten?
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11:48 smls yes
11:48 smls of course if it returns a single scalar, it "flattens" to that item (like any other list that only contains a single item)
11:50 moritz sub mysub() { [1, 2,3 ] } # that array ref doesn't flatten
11:50 TimToady p6item == p5ref more or less
11:51 smls moritz: because array refs *never* flatten; they are scalars.
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11:52 dalek nqp: 816447f | sergot++ | VERSION:
11:52 dalek nqp: bump VERSION to 2014.06
11:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/816447f7f9
11:54 sergot moritz: could you give me  access to rakudo@rakudo.org:public_html/downloads/nqp/ ?
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11:59 FROGGS sergot: wait wait wait...
11:59 FROGGS are the tests clean?
12:01 smls TimToady: Don't you consider it a problem that one can't rely on a dollar-sigiled variable to behave as a single item?
12:02 smls For me, this calls the entire concept of sigils into question
12:02 TimToady binding is cheating, and cheaters get caught sometimes :)
12:03 smls but you need it to work with lazy lists
12:03 smls which is one of the heavily advetised "wow" features
12:03 TimToady so don't bind to $, bind to @
12:03 smls to people (and even newbies) *will* use binding
12:04 * FROGGS .oO( Unsupported use of $, variable; in Perl 6 please use $*OUT.output_field_separator() )
12:05 sergot FROGGS: yes
12:05 sergot tests are clean
12:05 FROGGS also spectests for all backends?
12:06 smls TimToady: that's easy to mistype though, and can cause nasty action-at-adistance (as in the example i showed)
12:06 FROGGS TimToady: can't we "just" fix it?
12:06 sergot FROGGS: for nqp, yes
12:07 FROGGS sergot: I'd recommend to test rakudo too, before uploading any tarball
12:07 sergot FROGGS: ok :)
12:08 TimToady we can probably detect more such bad bindings at compile time and warn
12:08 TimToady *ost
12:09 psch https://gist.github.com/peschwa/acbe01ccc45d80c2c5d1 # only in the REPL, is this 32bit specific?
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12:11 smls Maybe $item variable binding could be restricted to itemized things?
12:12 TimToady would rather not make that a run-time check unless it can be optimized out most of the time
12:12 smls Like @array variable binding is restricted to Positional things.
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12:14 TimToady well, signature binding does ensure $ is itemized, I think
12:15 smls Besides for lazy lists, binding is also advertised to newbies with a Perl 5 background as a replacement for references (or rather, all uses for references except the building of nested data structures)
12:15 TimToady but that's ::= not :=
12:15 smls and P5 people use references a lot :)
12:16 smls So I don't think its fair to argue that binding is such an "advanced" feature that it's ok if it's dangerous
12:16 TimToady epcot &  :)
12:19 smls TimToady: Apparently with "is rw", it does not (on Rakudo Moar).
12:22 FROGGS psch: not sure why it blows up
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12:35 psch FROGGS: something about different native types for the same lexical...? my int $x = 0; my int64 $x = 0; # doesn't blow up at all, although it also doesn't throw a X::Redeclaration either
12:35 psch moar defines the int repr as always 64bit, which is why i tried the second case
12:37 psch to clarify, the default for a P6Int repr without a nativesize argument is 64bit
12:38 psch which it probably shouldn't be, seeing as that's what behind int and int should be platform specific
12:42 FROGGS I think the problem is in getattr_i
12:44 FROGGS ahh, hmmm, perhaps not
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12:51 sergot FROGGS: https://gist.github.com/sergot/07e27d01984b20e3c1f6
12:51 sergot rakudo's make test fails on jvm
12:52 FROGGS sergot: the evalserver might has crashed on your box...
12:52 FROGGS can you re-run it?
12:53 sergot Yes, in a sec
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12:56 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 448b391 | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
12:56 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
12:56 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/448b39116e
12:57 [Coke] modules/perl6-lwp-simple started failing on the daily star run for moar. (t/get-perl6-org.t)
12:58 [Coke] using commit d52b3bd76a5f9354030b475c1268ea7d582f359f
12:58 [Coke] which looks like the most recent merge commit.
12:59 [Coke] parrot is failing modules/jsonrpc, modules/doc, modules/perl6-lwp-simple
12:59 colomon oooo, release day
12:59 [Coke] java still failing "lots"
13:00 [Coke] (parrot -and- moar are failing that updated test in lwp-simple; jvm is still throwing an NPE on every test)
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13:01 FROGGS damn, I have tests that fetch web pages -.-
13:01 FROGGS hate*
13:03 psch FROGGS: i'll poke at that int32/int thing a bit more later, $work came up
13:03 psch that is, if you or someone else doesn't beat me to it :)
13:03 FROGGS psch: k, and good luck :o)
13:03 FROGGS have to do $work too
13:07 sergot FROGGS: clear now :)
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13:09 FROGGS moritz: can you apply please? https://github.com/cosimo/perl6-lwp-simple/pull/34
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13:10 * moritz pulls the trigger
13:10 FROGGS sergot: for me also
13:10 FROGGS [Coke]: the test will be fixed in a minute
13:11 FROGGS perhaps I should look at modules/jsonrpc for parrot before the release is done
13:12 sergot FROGGS: stresstesting now
13:12 FROGGS sergot++
13:13 [Coke] FROGGS: why not create a file in the github repo that is of known length and pull that?
13:13 [Coke] (if firing up our own server is not going to fly)
13:14 FROGGS github does a redirect to the https site... that would be a problem
13:15 moritz hey
13:15 [Coke] k
13:15 moritz aren't there some jquery hosting sites?
13:15 moritz like, from google etc.?
13:15 moritz those should be quite reliable
13:15 moritz and if we fetch a specific version (not jquery.js but jquery-1.8.45.js or so), it should be immutable
13:15 FROGGS good idea
13:16 [Coke] (we could also setup a page on perl6.org that is just for our testing)
13:16 FROGGS because, I do not want to adjust that test anymore :o)
13:16 moritz [Coke]: also works, but feather is less reliable than google :-)
13:16 FROGGS yeah
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13:40 FROGGS t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t                             (Wstat: 134 Tests: 0 Failed: 0)
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13:40 FROGGS Non-zero wait status: 134
13:40 FROGGS I wonder why that fails...
13:41 timotimo does it fail consistently?
13:43 FROGGS timotimo: yes
13:43 FROGGS ohh, hmmm, no :/
13:43 FROGGS 1..6
13:43 FROGGS Unhandled exception in code scheduled on thread 140234788333312
13:43 FROGGS No such method 'payload' for invocant of type 'Str'
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14:02 moritz somehow my general impression is that rakudo had a month or two of feature grows, and should now focus a bit more on quality again
14:04 PerlJam speeed!
14:04 PerlJam :)
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15:00 timotimo if we add more features, we can focus on even more quality!
15:05 hoelzro you can compile a script to a JAR via perl6-j --target=jar -o hello.jar hello.p6, right?
15:05 hoelzro I'm getting a NullPointerException when I try =/
15:05 lizmat good *, #perl6!
15:06 lizmat wrt quality: we still seem to have some rather serious race conditions in the async stuff
15:08 lizmat or regular features (like EVAL, matching) perhaps not being entirely threadsafe
15:08 lizmat anyways, today I'm not going to commit anything S11 related
15:09 lizmat as it seems more or less stable right now (apart from maybe performance)
15:11 FROGGS hoelzro: perhaps use --output= instead -o
15:11 * hoelzro tries
15:12 hoelzro huh, that did it...
15:12 hoelzro how odd
15:12 FROGGS hehe
15:12 FROGGS I guess -o= does it too
15:13 FROGGS but I've not yet seen -o in action
15:13 hoelzro weird
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15:45 hoelzro if I wanted better arguments processing than what MAIN offers, I take it I should use an external module? or is there a way to enhance how MAIN handles arguments?
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15:51 masak o/
15:52 masak ...from London :)
15:52 * ChoHag was forced to visit London today.
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15:58 FROGGS hoelzro: rakudo is open source... so you could enhance it... (or copy the logic and modify it)
15:59 dalek roast: 1a0d506 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S22-package-format/parse-spec.t:
15:59 dalek roast: Initial S22 tests
15:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1a0d50633f
16:00 lizmat hoelzro: a few days ago this question was raised as well
16:00 lizmat I seem to recall TimToady not being against expanding MAIN features
16:00 hoelzro FROGGS: right, I'm just wondering if such a change would be welcome, and if it would be in accordance with the spec
16:00 hoelzro lizmat: oh?
16:00 hoelzro hmm
16:00 hoelzro I'll have to check my logs
16:01 lizmat hoelzro: as long as it could be generalized :-)
16:01 lizmat (is what I recall)
16:01 lizmat sightseeing now &
16:04 masak release day today, no?
16:04 masak oh, sergot++ is already bumping stuff.
16:06 sergot masak: yes, stresstesting now :D
16:06 sergot Everything else if ready.
16:06 sergot is
16:09 masak najs.
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16:15 hoelzro lizmat: of course =)
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17:02 FROGGS hoelzro: make a prototype, if it is convincing... it will be considered
17:02 FROGGS hoelzro: otherwise it can stay a module of course
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17:03 ChoHag If a foo has a private attribute, can I access that from a role which is mixed into it?
17:03 ChoHag s/foo/class/
17:04 masak no.
17:04 masak vice versa works, though.
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17:05 hoelzro FROGGS: will do!
17:06 ChoHag What about an inherited class?
17:33 dalek rakudo/nom: d45fccd | sergot++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
17:33 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump NQP revision
17:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d45fccdbaf
17:33 dalek rakudo/nom: 15df0f5 | sergot++ | VERSION:
17:33 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump VERSION
17:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/15df0f597b
17:33 dalek rakudo/nom: a4e6d90 | sergot++ | docs/announce/2014.06.md:
17:33 dalek rakudo/nom: 2014.06 release announcement added
17:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a4e6d90934
17:36 sergot FROGGS: could you give me the access to rakudo@rakudo.org:public_html/downloads/ ?
17:36 sergot or someone else? moritz masak ?
17:36 sergot :)
17:38 FROGGS sergot: if you could provide the tarballs, I'd like to test them and then I should be able to upload the files
17:39 sergot ok
17:39 sergot :)
17:39 FROGGS uhh wait, I only have UMTS here and a very limited limit :/
17:40 FROGGS (normal internet is broken atm)
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: 8812ca4 | sergot++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: release done, moved to past releases, new plan added
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8812ca405d
17:43 masak sergot++
17:44 sergot Who can upload the tarball for me? :)
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17:44 sergot tarballs
17:44 * moritz
17:44 sergot moritz++
17:44 moritz sergot: where are they?
17:44 FROGGS on C:\
17:44 FROGGS :P
17:45 sergot moritz: where do you want them to be? :)
17:46 moritz sergot: somewhere on the internet, where I can download them
17:47 moritz sergot: or give me your pubkey by /msg
17:47 moritz then you can scp them yourself
17:49 sergot moritz: done
17:52 FROGGS sergot: have you fudged failing spectests of perl6-m and perl6-p?
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17:53 sergot FROGGS: no, I haven't
17:53 FROGGS eww
17:54 raiph m: my @foo = [1,2]; say @foo.perl # Would it be worthwhile changing .perl of @foo to be just `[1, 2]` ?
17:54 camelia rakudo-moar 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«Array.new([1, 2])␤»
18:09 psch m: @foo = 1, 2; @foo.perl.say; [1, 2].perl.say
18:09 camelia rakudo-moar 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Q4W3FRh5Jpâ�¤Variable '@foo' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/Q4W3FRh5Jp:1â�¤------> [32m@foo[33mâ��[31m = 1, 2; @foo.perl.say; [1, 2].perl.say[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
18:09 psch m: my @foo = 1, 2; @foo.perl.say; [1, 2].perl.say
18:09 camelia rakudo-moar 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2)␤[1, 2]␤»
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18:11 Mouq Oh, we lost camelia in the netsplit
18:11 Mouq m: say Array.new([1, 2]).push([6, 7]).perl
18:11 camelia rakudo-moar 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«Array.new([1, 2], [6, 7])␤»
18:11 psch had her on the other side, but not the person i wanted to indirectly answer with a bit of code heh
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18:28 FROGGS p: say $*VM.perl
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18:29 camelia rakudo-parrot 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«VM.new(config => {"sha1" => "fed40d8394df2f64681ca6651664daf095b42091", "PARROT_HAS_DLINFO" => "1", "has_sigaction" => "define", "memalign" => "posix_memalign", "HAS_GMP" => "1", "hugeintvalsize" => "8", "HASATTRIBUTE_WARN_UNUSED_RESULT" => "1", "ccwarn"…»
18:29 FROGGS p: say $*VM.perl ~~ m/\w/
18:29 camelia rakudo-parrot 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«「V」␤␤»
18:30 FROGGS p: use Test; ok $*VM.perl ~~ m/\w/, 'We can do a $*VM.perl';
18:30 camelia rakudo-parrot 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«ok 1 - We can do a $*VM.perl␤»
18:30 FROGGS why does that fail when running the spectest??
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18:33 FROGGS p: use Test; todo('no VM.signature yet'); ok $*VM.signature, "Signature is '{$*VM.signature}'"; ok $*VM.perl ~~ m/\w/, 'We can do a $*VM.perl';
18:33 camelia rakudo-parrot 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Blob in string context  in any  at gen/parrot/Metamodel.nqp:1480␤␤not ok 1 - Signature is ''# TODO no VM.signature yet␤ok 2 - We can do a $*VM.perl␤»
18:44 dalek roast: f7b42fb | sergot++ | S (2 files):
18:44 dalek roast: fudge failing tests, only for release purposes
18:44 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f7b42fbbe9
18:45 raiph m: say @(1,2); # m: my @foo = [1,2]; say @foo.perl # Would it be worthwhile changing .perl of @foo to be `[1, 2].list` ?
18:45 camelia rakudo-moar 5fdfc7: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
18:45 FROGGS raiph: no, because you would strip off the itemness of that thing
18:46 FROGGS m: say [1, 2]; say [1, 2].list
18:46 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«1 2␤1 2␤»
18:46 FROGGS m: say [1, 2].perl; say [1, 2].list.perl
18:46 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤Array.new(1, 2)␤»
18:46 raiph (Urgh. That was supposed to go to camelia)
18:46 FROGGS m: say "a" for [1, 2]; say "b" for [1, 2].list
18:46 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«a␤b␤b␤»
18:47 raiph m: my @foo = [1,2]; say @foo.perl # Would it be worthwhile changing .perl of @foo to be `[1, 2].list` ?
18:47 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«Array.new([1, 2])␤»
18:48 raiph (Now *that* is intentionally to the channel !)
18:49 raiph m: say Array.new(1,2) == [1,2].list
18:49 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:49 FROGGS right
18:50 FROGGS m: my @foo = [1,2]; say @foo.elems
18:50 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«1␤»
18:50 FROGGS that is why we want to keep the Array container
18:50 FROGGS (also in future when it is a typed or shaped array)
18:56 dalek perl6-roast-data: 42cb179 | coke++ | / (6 files):
18:56 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:56 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/42cb179150
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19:06 [Coke] moar is clean today. jvm has 2 files with errors. parrot has a abort.
19:06 [Coke] if someone could fix/fudge those, \o/
19:07 FROGGS [Coke]: the parrot fail is (temporarily) fudged
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19:12 [Coke] FROGGS++
19:12 [Coke] jvm failures: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/blob/master/log/rakudo.jvm_summary.out#L1720
19:13 FROGGS I can take a look but I doubt that I can do anything about it
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19:13 [Coke] no worries.
19:14 Mouq m: say Array.new(1,2) == [1,2].list
19:14 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:14 Mouq m: say Array.new(1,2) == [1,2].list
19:14 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:14 Mouq oops, sorry
19:14 FROGGS you can say that again :o)
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19:15 Mouq m: say Array.new(1,2) eqv [1,2].list
19:15 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:15 Mouq m: say Array.new(1,2) eqv [1,2]
19:15 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:15 Mouq Hm
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19:20 FROGGS j: for ^2 { ENTER { say "hurz" } }
19:20 camelia rakudo-jvm 8812ca: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
19:22 Mouq FROGGS: Is "hurz" a nonsense word like "foo" or "baz"?
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19:22 FROGGS this explodes: for ^2 { last; ENTER { say "hurz" } }
19:23 FROGGS Mouq: there is a german comedian who was singing a song about Hurz :o)
19:23 Mouq FROGGS: Ahh, ok :)
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19:24 [Coke] Doctor, it Hurz when I do this.
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19:34 dalek roast: d09bffe | (Tobias Leich)++ | S04-phasers/in-loop.t:
19:34 dalek roast: RT #122134 last+ENTER in loop (skipped for jvm)
19:34 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d09bffe077
19:34 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122134
19:37 PerlJam Are any of the "cut" regex ops implemented?  (:, ::, :::,  <cut>)
19:37 dalek roast: 1dbb9de | (Tobias Leich)++ | S04-phasers/in-loop.t:
19:37 dalek roast: RT #122134 last+ENTER in loop (skipped for jvm)
19:37 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1dbb9de05c
19:37 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122134
19:37 FROGGS PerlJam: no
19:37 PerlJam bummer.  That's what I thought, but I was hoping to be surprised  :)
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19:43 pippo o/ #perl6
19:43 pippo PerlJam: what the cut operator is supposed to do?
19:46 PerlJam pippo: fail if the regex engine backtracks across it.
19:47 pippo PerlJam: Ho. Thanks!
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20:05 dalek doc: f7705ba | Mouq++ | htmlify.p6:
20:05 dalek doc: Process =DESCRIPTIONs in language docs and use as summary
20:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f7705ba333
20:05 dalek doc: 5cc202c | Mouq++ | / (10 files):
20:05 dalek doc: Add =DESCRIPTIONs to the language docs, normalize =TITLEs some
20:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5cc202c838
20:06 vendethiel p6: for ^2 { last; ENTER { say "hurz" } } # where ?
20:06 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 8812ca, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«hurz␤»
20:06 FROGGS huh
20:06 vendethiel FROGGS: I fixed perl 6.
20:06 vendethiel implems bent over camelia
20:07 FROGGS jnthn: please merge https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/pull/39
20:14 dalek doc: acbc68b | Mouq++ | html/css/style.css:
20:14 dalek doc: Center titles and descriptions so that they look better together
20:14 dalek doc:
20:14 dalek doc: Left-aligned descriptions looked weird
20:14 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/acbc68b898
20:15 Mouq actual review: http://doc.perl6.org/language.html
20:16 Mouq (may require Ctrl-R)
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20:17 * vendethiel did need ctrl-r
20:18 vendethiel ah, too bad we don't have on-site highlighting yet
20:18 vendethiel maybe that's something I should tackle
20:19 moritz might be as easy as piping through Text::VimColor
20:21 dalek doc: 1dec2d6 | Mouq++ | lib/Language/classtut.pod:
20:21 dalek doc: [classtut.pod] flush code with margin
20:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1dec2d64f9
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20:35 FROGGS or somebody would port the Kate syntax highlighting module from P5
20:35 FROGGS could be a fun task
20:37 timotimo the kate module isn't very thorough so far
20:38 timotimo ma ybe better to shell out to pygmentize
20:39 FROGGS hmmm, I use it at one place to colorize XML, works well enough
20:40 timotimo er, i meant to say: the kate syntax highlighter fro p6
20:40 FROGGS ahh
20:41 FROGGS I'm usually fine with P5 highlighters :o)
20:41 dagurval joined #perl6
20:42 sjn joined #perl6
20:42 Mouq I think for the most part, I'm done with adding features myself. IMO doc is pretty usable and extensible now, if slow, so I'd rather work on making the documents themselves better
20:43 Mouq But if someone wants to add syntax highlighting, go for it :)
20:43 raiph joined #perl6
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20:53 raiph moritz++, FROGGS++ # for earlier explanation and patience
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21:43 sergot good night o/
21:47 Mouq \o sergot
21:47 FROGGS gnight sergot
21:49 timotimo m: say lines()
21:49 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll; Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ Ghaoth …»
21:49 timotimo m: say $*ARGFILES
21:49 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤IO::Handle<>(closed)␤»
21:50 timotimo m: say $*ARGFILES[0].perl
21:50 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«IO::Handle.new(path => Any, ins => 0, chomp => Bool::True)␤»
21:51 dalek doc: 9534e90 | Mouq++ | lib/Language/Sets_Bags_and_Mixes.pod:
21:51 dalek doc: Add Baggy operators to Sets, Bags, and Mixes
21:51 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9534e90fb9
21:51 timotimo why is "closed"?
21:52 timotimo m: say $*ARGFILES[0]
21:52 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤IO::Handle<>(closed)␤»
21:52 timotimo m: say $*ARGFILES[0].DUMP
21:52 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«Default constructor for 'IO::Path' only takes named arguments␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:827␤  in method path at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14088␤  in method DUMP at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1065␤  in sub DUMP at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:139…»
21:52 Mouq m: say $*ARGFILES[0] for lines
21:53 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤IO::Handle<>(closed)␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤IO::Handle<>(closed)␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤IO::Handle<>(closed)␤use of uni…»
21:55 FROGGS $*ARGFILES would only contain something if you invoke: perl6 -e '...' < foo.txt
21:57 timotimo well, in this case we're getting something piped into stdin
21:57 Mouq Is this readable? http://doc.perl6.org/language/Sets_Bags_and_Mixes
21:58 Mouq Still need to add an explaination for *Hash
21:59 timotimo perl6-m -e 'say $*ARGFILES' doesn't seem to print two files when i supply two files
22:00 timotimo in fact, it only prints one entry at all; is that how it works?
22:01 timotimo ah, ARGFILES is just a single handle that distributes commands over multiple files
22:04 pmichaud note about moarvm #105
22:05 pmichaud files created in programs should generally be coded with 0666 permissions.
22:06 pmichaud oh, maybe this belongs in #moarvm
22:06 pmichaud moving there
22:08 dalek doc: 4798c80 | Mouq++ | lib/ (4 files):
22:08 dalek doc: Move *Hash into Sets, Bags, and Mixes
22:08 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4798c80268
22:11 dalek doc: 73a5f1c | Mouq++ | lib/Language/Sets_Bags_and_Mixes.pod:
22:11 dalek doc: Remove pointless headings
22:11 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/73a5f1ce2f
22:15 timotimo moarvm doesn't report file paths when failing to open files ...
22:21 raiph Has the potential-surprise-due-to-last-statement-in-block-not-being-sunk somehow been eliminated?
22:23 Mouq m: 42; 43
22:23 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of constant integer 42 in sink context (line 1)␤»
22:26 araujo joined #perl6
22:28 raiph Mouq: S06:715 "Note that the default return policy assumes functional semantics, with the result that a loop as the final statement would be evaluated as a map, which may surprise some people." (plus lots of discussion of this and spec changes in last few years -- but I haven't been able to see it in my private camelia experiments)
22:28 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#line_715
22:29 lizmat do we have a release already?  should I commit an S22 tweak?
22:30 timotimo lizmat: branches are super cheap in any case
22:30 lizmat I'll take that as a "wait until released"
22:30 lizmat it's not that important
22:31 skids joined #perl6
22:32 timotimo hm, ok
22:32 grondilu joined #perl6
22:33 raiph timotimo: at one point you were trying to understand the issue I just mentioned; do you now understand it and can demonstrate the "problem"?
22:34 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
22:36 timotimo the thing with for loops at the end of a block?
22:37 timotimo for loops are now always sunk
22:37 amirite joined #perl6
22:45 dalek zavolaj: 53317e5 | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
22:45 dalek zavolaj: Get rid of deprecation messages
22:45 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/53317e5249
22:45 dalek zavolaj: 265e504 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
22:45 dalek zavolaj: Merge pull request #39 from jnthn/tadzik/deprecations
22:45 dalek zavolaj:
22:45 dalek zavolaj: Get rid of deprecation messages
22:45 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/265e504640
22:49 jnthn There we go
22:50 xenoterracide_ joined #perl6
22:54 timotimo i'm having some trouble with await and start :o
22:54 timotimo ooooh
22:55 timotimo i know why %)
22:55 raiph .tell TimToady S06:715 says "a loop as the final statement would be evaluated as a map"; this is now a fossil, right?
22:55 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#line_715
22:55 yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
23:00 lizmat r: my @a; my $c = Int; @a.push: $($c,1); $c=Str; @a.push: $($c,2); say @a.perl
23:00 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 8812ca: OUTPUT«Array.new($(Str, 1), $(Str, 2))␤»
23:00 lizmat jnthn: ^^^ this feels wrong to me
23:02 lizmat feels like the push binds to the variable, rather than just copy ?
23:02 lizmat am I missing something?
23:03 lizmat hmm... it appears jnthn is already asleep, gnight jnthn!
23:04 Mouq r: my @a; my $c = Int; @a.push: item Array.new($c,1); $c=Str; say @a.perl
23:04 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 8812ca: OUTPUT«Array.new([Int, 1])␤»
23:04 timotimo what are other common names for our Promises?
23:05 lizmat timotimo: you mean things that return Promises ?
23:05 timotimo no
23:05 BenGoldberg Vocabulary words?
23:05 timotimo i know at least one language calls it "futures"
23:05 Mouq timotimo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promise_%28programming%29
23:05 BenGoldberg oath, vow, agreement, etc?
23:06 timotimo mhh
23:06 timotimo i think promise and future will be familiar to enough attendees
23:06 Mouq Oh look, we can add Perl 6 to "List of implementations" on that page :)
23:12 timotimo what kinds of things would return Channels by themselves?
23:12 timotimo i think asynchronous lines does that
23:12 lizmat they would be more like Supplies, I would guess
23:13 lizmat n: my @a; my $c = Int; @a.push: $($c,1); $c=Str; @a.push: $($c,2); say @a.perl
23:13 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[$(Str, 1), $(Str, 2)].list␤»
23:13 timotimo aye, though i see a reason for having them be channels instead, too
23:14 timotimo on the other hand, turning a supply into a channel is just .tap({ $my_chan.send($_) })
23:14 lizmat .Channel, even
23:14 timotimo actually
23:14 timotimo yes
23:15 lizmat m my @a; my $c = Int; @a.push: $($c,1); $c=Str; @a.push: $($c,2); say @a.perl
23:16 lizmat m: my @a; my $c = Int; @a.push: $($c,1); $c=Str; @a.push: $($c,2); say @a.perl
23:16 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«Array.new($(Str, 1), $(Str, 2))␤»
23:16 lizmat I would expect to see:
23:16 lizmat Array.new($(Int, 1), $(Str, 2))
23:17 lizmat am I wrong?  Is there something about type objects that make them bind in a .push?
23:17 timotimo i'm looking for some acceptable examples to show promises and channels with :|
23:19 timotimo should we get Channel.Supply, too?
23:20 timotimo damnit, i was going to present "perl 6 without rocket surgery" and now i'm about to write a slide on reactive programming
23:20 lizmat That would be trickier, as we cannot be sure there are no other threads picking values off the Channel
23:20 lizmat so you could never be sure the resulting Supply would see all values of the Channel
23:20 timotimo this won't do at all!
23:21 timotimo ah, that's a good point.
23:21 silug joined #perl6
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23:23 * lizmat submits rakudobug
23:24 timotimo m: my @a; my $c = 1; @a.push: $($c,1); $c = "hi"; @a.push: $($c,2); say @a.perl
23:24 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«Array.new($("hi", 1), $("hi", 2))␤»
23:25 timotimo it would appear the container of the $c is being pushed, rather than the value?
23:26 xragnar_ joined #perl6
23:26 lizmat #122137
23:26 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122137
23:26 Mouq It's not the fact that it's being pushed, it's the building of $($c, 1), isn't it?
23:27 timotimo could very well be
23:27 timotimo is that being done at compile-time perhaps?
23:27 Mouq m: my $c = 1; my \b = $($c, 1); $c = Int; say b.perl
23:27 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«$(Int, 1)␤»
23:27 Mouq m: my $c = 1; my $b = $($c, 1); $c = Int; say $b.perl
23:27 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«$(Int, 1)␤»
23:28 timotimo no, the optimizer leaves that alone.
23:29 timotimo i really should have started making the slides much earlier :S
23:29 timotimo at least the "what do i talk about?" part
23:29 Mouq m: my $c = 1; my $b = ($c, 1); $c = Int; say $b.perl
23:29 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«$(Int, 1)␤»
23:29 Mouq m: my $c = 1; my $b = [$c, 1]; $c = Int; say $b.perl
23:29 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«[1, 1]␤»
23:30 benabik joined #perl6
23:30 Mouq m: my $c = 1; my $b = Array.new($c, 1); $c = Int; say $b.perl
23:30 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«[Int, 1]␤»
23:30 Mouq Many WTFs to be had
23:31 Mouq p6: my $c = 1; my $b = Array.new($c, 1); $c = Int; say $b.perl
23:31 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to List.new, used 1 of 3 positionals␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (List.new @ 1) ␤  at /tmp/tmpfile line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4595 (ANON @ 3) …»
23:31 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 8812ca: OUTPUT«[Int, 1]␤»
23:31 Mouq n: my $c = 1; my $b = ($c, 1); $c = Int; say $b.perl
23:31 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«$(Int, 1)␤»
23:33 Mouq OTOH, ($c,) having the container is the only way ($c, *) = * could work
23:33 Mouq Other than special-casing
23:34 timotimo that's true
23:35 timotimo m: my $c; say $($c, 1).WHAT
23:35 camelia rakudo-moar 8812ca: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
23:35 timotimo ah, it's a parcel
23:35 timotimo those are supposed to be internal-ish magic-ish any way
23:35 timotimo to be honest, i'd rather use [  ] for nested structures
23:54 dalek roast: 2913cd1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S22-package-format/parse-spec.t:
23:54 dalek roast: Some more parse-spec tests
23:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2913cd1d0c
23:58 Mouq lizmat: Could those for blocks be re-written as map &parse-ok, ...?
23:59 Mouq or rather &parse_ok
23:59 lizmat I guess for the single test cases, yes, good point
23:59 lizmat feels it is still early and very late already
23:59 lizmat I wonder why  :-)

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