Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-06-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:10 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 7cfed4d | coke++ | log/ (13 files):
00:10 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
00:10 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/7cfed4d2cc
00:10 dalek perl6-roast-data: de52682 | coke++ | / (6 files):
00:10 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:10 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/de526825db
00:12 vendethiel m: for <a b c d e f> { .say if 'a' ff 'e'; }; # shouldn't work, right ?
00:12 camelia rakudo-moar 847bd5: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤d␤e␤f␤»
00:12 vendethiel m: for <a b c d e f> { .say when  'a' ff 'e'; }; # but does this ... ?
00:12 camelia rakudo-moar 847bd5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏a' (indicated by ⏏)␤»
00:13 vendethiel m: for <a b c d e f> { .say with 'a' ff 'e'; }; # but does this ... ?
00:13 camelia rakudo-moar 847bd5: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/6lLaj0fqyRâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/6lLaj0fqyR:1â�¤------> [32mfor <a b c d e f> { .say [33mâ��[31mwith 'a' ff 'e'; }; # but does this ... [0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        method argu…»
00:18 masak having `.say when 'a' ff 'e'` work would solve oodles of use cases.
00:18 vendethiel I think so.
00:18 vendethiel But break sooo much consistency :D
00:19 masak ...but I can't see how it would, because the things in the 'a' and 'e' positions still don't smartmatch.
00:19 vendethiel masak: mmh ?
00:22 vendethiel well, sleep&.
00:22 masak m: macro infix:<smff>($l, $r) { quasi { $_ ~~ {{{$l}}} ff $_ ~~ {{{$r}}} } }; for 'a'..'f' { .say if 'b' smff 'e' }
00:22 camelia rakudo-moar 847bd5: ( no output )
00:23 masak ...I guess $_ doesn't bind right in that one.
00:23 masak m: macro infix:<smff>($l, $r) { quasi { $COMPILING::_ ~~ {{{$l}}} ff $COMPILING::_ ~~ {{{$r}}} } }; for 'a'..'f' { .say if 'b' smff 'e' }
00:23 camelia rakudo-moar 847bd5: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤use of uninitialized…»
00:23 masak ah, well.
00:23 BenGoldberg What's ff?
00:23 timotimo flip flop op
00:24 BenGoldberg Ok.
00:24 timotimo it carries internal state
00:24 masak BenGoldberg: it turns true when the lhs is true, then stays true until the rhs is true.
00:24 BenGoldberg Like perl5's scalar .. operator.
00:25 BenGoldberg Which always confuses me and hurts my brain, 100% of the time I see it.
00:26 masak yes, that one.
00:26 masak and fff is like the scalar ... operator.
00:28 BenGoldberg All I can say is that I'm glad perl6 writes flipflop differently from .. and ...
00:30 masak we believe firmly in not making ops context-dependent along that particular dimension (item/list context).
00:30 masak or subs/methods, for that matter.
00:31 BenGoldberg I once spent a couple of frustrated hours on some perl5 code, where I had written $foo[ $x .. $#foo ], where I should have had @foo[ $x .. $#foo ]
00:31 masak heh :)
00:31 masak 'night, #perl6
00:32 BenGoldberg 'night masak.
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00:43 * [Coke] waves from Ohio.
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01:02 * geekosaur waves at [Coke] en passant
01:04 [Coke] ~~
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01:22 grondilu about prefix:<+>, in S03:  « For values that do not already do the "Numeric" role, the narrowest appropriate type of "Int", "Rat", "Num", or "Complex" will be returned;
01:22 grondilu »
01:22 grondilu So for instance:
01:22 grondilu r: say (+"3.0").WHAT
01:22 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 847bd5: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
01:23 grondilu but for constistency shouldn't prefix:<+> also returned a narrow value when called with a Numeric argument?
01:23 grondilu hang on
01:24 grondilu shouldn't  +"3.0" be an Int according to spec?
01:25 * grondilu basically thinks prefix:<+> should always narrow
01:27 * grondilu thought of that while thinking of http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Test_integerness
01:27 * grondilu would have liked to test integerness with +$x ~~ Int
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01:31 grondilu well on second thought that's probably not a good idea.  If someone writes a literal value as 3.0, he *wants* a Num an not an Int, and prefix:<+> should not change that I guess.
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03:53 Mouq grondilu: Isn't that why .narrow exists?
04:01 Mouq moritz: That looks.. like exactly what I want to write but better :) I'll be happy to steal from it :) though maybe not tonight
04:05 Mouq (RE:: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-06-21#i_8908219)
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04:16 dalek perl6-bench: 390b19d | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: Show tag dates in `bench list-tags`
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/390b19dce8
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: 3d4ae2a | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | timeall:
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: Much less broken commit time detection in timeall
04:16 dalek perl6-bench:
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: After this commit, you should rerun timings so that upcoming history
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: comparison functionality will work properly.
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/3d4ae2ae39
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: e6f852b | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files):
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: First (text format) support for history comparison
04:16 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/e6f852b95d
04:20 japhb .tell timotimo New perl6-bench command `bench history` ought to interest you.  Ping me if you need help.  :-)
04:20 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
04:20 japhb .tell timotimo html and html_plot versions coming when I get another good hack session.
04:20 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
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05:38 dalek roast: b3fdfeb | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2011-day20.t:
05:38 dalek roast: adding advent 2011 day 20
05:38 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b3fdfeb3fe
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07:14 FROGGS__ m: "foo".encode ~ 42 # why does that what it does?
07:14 camelia rakudo-moar 847bd5: OUTPUT«(signal )»
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07:25 dalek rakudo/nom: 25c1e5d | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
07:25 dalek rakudo/nom: add subbuf-rw, an lvalue subbuf like we have a substr-rw for strings
07:25 dalek rakudo/nom:
07:25 dalek rakudo/nom: The replacement must be a Blob and this sub needs to be specced.
07:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/25c1e5deb0
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08:29 masak antenoon, #perl6
08:33 moritz \o masak
08:35 masak so quiet -- guess people are at YAPC::NA and stuff.
08:40 moritz it's Sunday :-)
08:44 vendethiel wrt "writing ff" : it's better than `..`, but it's harder to read because it doesn't stand out
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08:45 moritz rename it infix:<FLIPFLOP>
08:47 FROGGS__ my expectation when seeing ff is that is a sub and not an infix
08:55 vendethiel moritz: well, I could. But I don't think it helps that much
08:55 moritz vendethiel: then it would stand out
08:56 vendethiel ... unless something else than "FLIPFLOP3 is in caps
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09:06 moritz well, Perl 6 takes care to only upper-case things that should stand out
09:06 moritz if your own code use lots of all-caps, you're screwed
09:07 moritz but of course you can write code to defeat any technique to make things stand out :-)
09:10 vendethiel moritz: YES INDEED DOT GOOD POINT COLON CLOSING PAREN
09:10 vendethiel .oO( we've already gone back to CL-style naming ? )
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09:38 psch hi #perl6
09:38 masak hi psch!
09:39 psch masak o/
09:39 psch https://gist.github.com/peschwa/cb2a142e49afce7a260c
09:39 psch there's a few spots im not clear on the spec though
09:40 psch for example, tr/// returning False seems weird, but happens in nom for s/// as well
09:40 psch on moar and parrot that is
09:41 psch at least locally
09:41 psch maybe that's a platform thing again? :/
09:42 psch also i think 'whitespace characters are taken literally' and 'The .. range sequence is the only metasyntax' clash for ranges that start or end on a whitespace
09:42 psch this is all related to RT #62064, fyi
09:42 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=62064
09:46 psch oh, and tr[][] (and tr{}{}, and i guess other paired delims) also work
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09:47 masak I have no idea why that `False` would be useful.
09:49 masak the action method seems to generate the moral equivalent of `$_ = .trans($from, $to);`
09:50 masak which... shouldn't be False.
09:54 psch masak: i updated the gist; i'm seeing the same behavior for s/// in the repl; my tr/// implementation still gives False when called from -e though
09:55 psch where the repl for s/// is "upstream" nom
10:06 psch https://github.com/peschwa/rakudo/compare/implement_tr # this is my branch, for reference
10:07 psch mostly oriented myself on how s/// works... :)
10:11 psch wrt spec: the delimiter for tr shouldn't change behavior i assume? i.e. tr[][] still only accepts exactly one string for search and replacement each
10:15 masak sure.
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10:30 punter I want to make a Jabber server (for my site). I'm a Perl 5 programmer. Do you think it's possible to make it in Perl 6? Does Perl 6 have the networking features needed?
10:30 punter I can do it in AnyEvent of Perl5. Does Perl 6 have something similar?
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10:36 psch punter: perl6 does have working sockets and you i think you can write event-based programms with supplies
10:36 psch but i'm no expert and there might be a better answer
10:43 moritz punter: rakudo's async and socket support might be a bit too unstable atm
10:43 punter ok
10:43 moritz punter: if you want something production ready quickly, p5 is still the safer better
10:43 punter thanks
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11:01 atroxaper Hello, #perl6 !
11:01 atroxaper use Test; role Role { multi method gist() {return 'GIST';}}; class Class does Role {}; say Role.new; is Role.new, 'GIST', 'works well'
11:01 atroxaper m: use Test; role Role { multi method gist() {return 'GIST';}}; class Class does Role {}; say Role.new; is Role.new, 'GIST', 'works well'
11:01 camelia rakudo-moar 25c1e5: OUTPUT«GIST␤not ok 1 - works well␤#      got: 'Role<140591977373584>'␤# expected: 'GIST'␤»
11:02 atroxaper Why 'is' doesn't call gist?
11:04 moritz because .gist is only the default stringification for say()
11:04 moritz the rest uses .Str
11:04 atroxaper Can I override Str?
11:07 atroxaper Yes. Thanks.
11:09 vendethiel no problem :)
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12:34 * masak wonders what the biggest obstacle would be for unifying .gist and .Str
12:35 masak hello from a train, by the way :)
12:35 * vendethiel whispers "I like trains"
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13:00 tadzik WZOOM
13:01 dalek specs: 03a91ba | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
13:01 dalek specs: Spec Buffer.subbuf-rw
13:01 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/03a91bada1
13:01 Su-Shee *hihi* you're all going to love the ypac staff t-shirts: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqsH2TcCYAEHHlQ.jpg :)
13:02 tadzik :D
13:03 Su-Shee love it. want one of those :)
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13:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 49ab1d8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | t/spectest.data:
13:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Add advent2011/day20 tests
13:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/49ab1d89e2
13:07 lizmat masak: simple: make say use .gist, run the spectest, see what breaks
13:09 lizmat *.Str  :-)
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13:17 masak lizmat: worth a shot.
13:20 lizmat already running spectest
13:21 TimToady the intent of gist is to be a tl;dr
13:22 TimToady the intent of .Str is to be completist
13:22 TimToady this is a pragmatic distinction, not driven by the fact that there's a large overlap for short values
13:23 TimToady nor by the fact that the spec tests aren't good at testing pragmatics
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13:23 TimToady so I don't see that it'll prove much
13:24 * TimToady heads back to his talk-writing corner
13:24 lizmat masak: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/23162d0031578a2eeb56
13:25 * lizmat does a git reset --hard
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13:54 dalek roast: fedf27b | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S22-package-format/local (2 files):
13:54 dalek roast: Initial testing on CompUnitRepo::Local::File
13:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fedf27b174
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14:03 amirite @mxit
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14:20 dalek rakudo/nom: 9017529 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (4 files):
14:20 dalek rakudo/nom: Add skeleton CompUnit class
14:20 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9017529011
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14:36 hoelzro I'm writing a module that allows users to declare methods as commands for a CLI, so I don't want the user to be able to declare duplicates
14:37 hoelzro is there something I can hook into when the class is "closed" so I can detect this situation?
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14:40 masak m: say Int.HOW.^methods
14:40 camelia rakudo-moar 49ab1d: OUTPUT«No such method 'gist' for invocant of type 'NQPRoutine'␤  in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7190␤  in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13769␤  in block  at /tmp/SRwb3KffnC:1␤␤»
14:40 masak grrbl.
14:41 masak anyway, it seems to me you should be able to override .add_method or something in a custom ClassHOW.
14:47 hoelzro hmm
14:47 hoelzro well, that would require the user to be aware of this, right?
14:47 hoelzro this is what I'm going for: https://gist.github.com/hoelzro/d552753137568ac5285c
14:47 hoelzro I was thinking I could monkey with the HOW of App::Subcommand to achieve my goal
14:49 masak yes, something like that was what I had in mind.
14:56 psch well, i got a tr/// that always returns True, instead of the previous False. it's spec'd - by omission - to return the number of replaced or deleted characters though
14:57 psch i can't seem to keep the original lhs for smart match calls for any comparison
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15:12 atroxaper haw can I continue search in string by regex? Something like qq{ while 'abcd
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15:12 atroxaper haw can I continue search in string by regex? Something like qq[ while 'abcd' ~~ m/ (.) {say $0;} ]
15:13 psch m: 'foo' ~~ m/ (.)+ { say $0 } / # this at least does your example
15:14 camelia rakudo-moar 49ab1d: OUTPUT«「f」␤ 「o」␤ 「o」␤␤»
15:14 psch although i'm pretty sure there's an XY-problem here somewhere
15:15 atroxaper psch: I think it's good enought :-)
15:23 psch glad to help :)
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15:40 dalek specs: 2d0d5ac | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S22-package-format.pod:
15:40 dalek specs: Some more elaboration about CompUnit class
15:40 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/2d0d5ac1da
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16:44 japhb .ask timotimo Did you write nqp/richards yourself, or does it come from somewhere else?  (And if so, where?  I want to make sure I have a proper copyright note for it.)
16:44 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
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17:11 japhb .ask timotimo Wait, did nqp/richards in perl6-bench ever actually work?  I get some strange error messages from it on nqp-m ....
17:11 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
17:24 masak atroxaper: I would just do `for $str.comb(/pattern/) -> $match { ... }`
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17:28 lizmat lunch&
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17:52 timotimo japhb: i ported it from the pypy benchmark suite
17:52 yoleaux 04:20Z <japhb> timotimo: New perl6-bench command `bench history` ought to interest you.  Ping me if you need help.  :-)
17:52 yoleaux 04:20Z <japhb> timotimo: html and html_plot versions coming when I get another good hack session.
17:53 yoleaux 16:44Z <japhb> timotimo: Did you write nqp/richards yourself, or does it come from somewhere else?  (And if so, where?  I want to make sure I have a proper copyright note for it.)
17:53 yoleaux 17:11Z <japhb> timotimo: Wait, did nqp/richards in perl6-bench ever actually work?  I get some strange error messages from it on nqp-m ....
17:53 timotimo i think it worked at at least one point
17:53 timotimo but i didn't have the patience to port it
17:57 timotimo http://media.ccc.de/browse/conferences/gpn/gpn14/gpn14_-_5869_-_de_-_medientheater_-_201406202130_-_perl_6_-_timo.html - this is my perl6 talk, in german and quite chaotic
17:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 4459c54 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
17:57 dalek rakudo/nom: add unpack directives "a" and "Z"
17:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4459c548d8
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18:14 japhb timotimo: Do you remember which nqp backend you used when you got it to work the first time?  I'm trying to determine if it's just nqp-m that doesn't like it ....
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18:17 timotimo hmm, depends on when i did it, maybe parrot, but possibly moar.
18:21 timotimo wait, do we even have mutable bufs?
18:23 colomon shift_pmc() not implemented in class 'Continuation'
18:23 colomon in block  at bin/panda:21
18:23 colomon in sub MAIN at bin/panda:19
18:23 * colomon has been having major problems smoking parrakudo the last few days.
18:23 timotimo o_O
18:26 colomon Tuesday the 17th was the last time I did a successful full smoke run.  Took me a few days to notice because my laptop was at Apple for repairs.
18:32 * [Coke] waves from I94.
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18:35 [Coke] II actually have pretty decent internet, considering I'm on the highway.
18:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: b06f95b | coke++ | log/ (13 files):
18:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
18:36 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/b06f95b061
18:36 dalek perl6-roast-data: 39dffd3 | coke++ | / (6 files):
18:36 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:36 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/39dffd36b8
18:36 colomon [Coke]: I94!  That's like home!
18:37 * colomon lives a couple hours away from it now, but grew up 30 minutes' drive from the east end of I94, and then lived only a mile from I94 for most of the Naughts.
18:38 [Coke] colomon: heading SW now, ooping around the lake.
18:38 colomon [Coke]: Lake Michigan, I presume?
18:38 [Coke] colomon: we were at lake erie earlier today.
18:38 [Coke] and now we're at that one, yes.
18:39 colomon Great Lakes++
18:39 colomon afk # quick run into town, back very shortly
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18:58 FROGGS__ .tell lizmat subbuf-rw is just a sub like substr-rw is only a sub, not a method
18:58 yoleaux FROGGS__: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
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19:00 masak colomon: didn't nqp upgrade its Parrot dep just a few days ago?
19:01 masak colomon: ah, yes nqp's adf65bfd24f70a05459478397e5f54eb754bbfd1.
19:01 masak colomon: would be interesting to see if the problems go away if you build before that commit.
19:02 xfix joined #perl6
19:03 Akagi201 joined #perl6
19:05 [Coke] no rakudo's testing clean today
19:05 [Coke] *rakudos
19:09 xfix joined #perl6
19:09 xfix joined #perl6
19:10 dalek modules.perl6.org: 1076951 | (Tim Smith)++ | web/ (9 files):
19:10 dalek modules.perl6.org: Clearer badge icons
19:10 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/10769519ba
19:14 colomon [Coke]: was that, "No, the rakudos are testing clean today," or "No rakudos are testing clean today"?
19:16 colomon masak: I'm trying to build bcd1861857db94a74afbd7ff6e43d87cc6878fe7 now (June 18th, before NQP bumps, I think)
19:23 * masak just got another spesh fail, this time when running from -e
19:23 masak building latest and trying again.
19:29 colomon okay, bcd1861857db94a74afbd7ff6e43d87cc6878fe7 installs panda correctly.
19:31 vendethiel- joined #perl6
19:32 vendethiel nice new badges :)
19:34 mr-foobar joined #perl6
19:36 cognominal indeed
19:40 thou Good, I'm glad they are well-received
19:41 thou I am *not* a graphic designer, so I won't be offended if the community wants them reverted or tweaked.
19:43 lizmat joined #perl6
19:45 cognominal thou, is there a pointer back from http://modules.perl6.org/ to the program that generated it?
19:47 thou cognominal: Yes, there's a pointer to github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org repo
19:48 thou … at the bottom of the page
19:49 cognominal ho, I did not notice that contained the program as well as the data.
19:49 cognominal thou++
19:49 thou hey, ho! let's go!
19:50 labster joined #perl6
19:51 xfix_ joined #perl6
19:52 colomon hmm, panda build works on parrot-d45fccdbaf74f13207bf9118a6dfd9d158108a3f too
19:52 mr-foobar joined #perl6
19:58 lucas Hello. Is "my Dog $spot = $spot.new;" right or wrong? S02 says ".=" is rewritten into this but S03 say it's an invalid self-reference.
19:59 vendethiel p6: class A {}; my A $a = $a.new;
19:59 camelia rakudo-jvm 4459c5: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
19:59 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 4459c5, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: ( no output )
20:00 lizmat_ joined #perl6
20:01 ivanshmakov joined #perl6
20:04 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:05 labster joined #perl6
20:06 moritz lucas: looks correct to me
20:06 moritz lucas: the variable is declared as soon as it's parsed
20:07 vendethiel lucas: where does S03 say it's an invalid ref ?
20:09 lucas S03-operators.pod: 5072: my Dog $fido = $fido.new; # wrong: invalid self-reference
20:10 lucas should it be changed? s/wrong: invalid/okay/ ?
20:11 colomon hmmm
20:12 psch makes sense to me, fwiw; as moritz says variables are declared when parsed, and typed variables get instantiated with the type object
20:12 moritz though caution is required
20:12 moritz it might be that the variable on RHS is actually the one from the proto lexpad, not from the runtime lexpad
20:12 moritz I'm not sure here
20:13 jnthn Good evening from the north o/
20:13 moritz m: my Int $x = do { say $x; 42 }
20:13 camelia rakudo-moar 4459c5: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
20:13 moritz \o jnthn
20:13 psch hi jnthn
20:13 colomon \o
20:13 moritz m: my Int $x = do { BEGIN { $x = 23 }; say $x; 42 }
20:13 camelia rakudo-moar 4459c5: OUTPUT«23␤»
20:14 breinbaas joined #perl6
20:14 * moritz isn't sure whether that tells us anything
20:14 lizmat jnthn o/
20:14 yoleaux 18:58Z <FROGGS__> lizmat: subbuf-rw is just a sub like substr-rw is only a sub, not a method
20:14 lizmat and good * from the south
20:15 * moritz guesses he is south from the north, but no idea how he compares to lizmat's south
20:15 lizmat moritz: as in Orlando, FL
20:15 moritz lizmat: oh. I'm guess I'm noth, then :-)
20:16 * jnthn is almost in the arctic
20:16 jnthn It's still rather light outside. :)
20:16 TimToady last week at Key West the sun was pretty much straight up
20:17 lizmat TimToady: is there a reason we don't have substr-rw and/or subbuf-rw as a method ?
20:18 moritz lizmat: I think it's because sub{str,buf}-rw are mostly p5isms, and p5 doesn't do methods on value "types"
20:19 lizmat subbuf most definitely is new
20:19 lizmat but join is a p5ism, and we have a .join method
20:19 TimToady lizmat: the only reason is a foolish inconsistency :)
20:19 lizmat ok, so you won't mind if I make it consistent ?
20:19 masak jnthn \o
20:20 TimToady nope
20:20 * vendethiel just learned he wouldn't be in france when YAPC::EU happens
20:20 jnthn Well, there is the thing that method calls on a scalar are normally seen as being on the value, not on the container...
20:20 lizmat vendethiel: that's because YAPC::EU is in Sofia?
20:20 vendethiel lizmat: haha, no, not in sofia either
20:20 vendethiel I'm not here in august
20:20 TimToady jnthn: true
20:20 lizmat so you mean you can't make it to YAPC::EU  :-(
20:21 vendethiel (my only holidays in 2 years :(.)
20:21 vendethiel yea :(
20:21 lizmat jnthn, TimToady: $ ack '.substr' src/core | wc -l
20:21 lizmat 103
20:21 lizmat actually:
20:21 lizmat $ ack '\.substr' src/core | wc -l
20:21 lizmat 50
20:22 TimToady jnthn's point is that it would have to be a VAR-like macro in order to make it an lvalue
20:22 lizmat so substr is being used as a method in the core settings
20:22 TimToady .substr can just deal with the value rather than the container
20:22 TimToady strings being immutable, we emulate mutation in the container
20:23 lizmat right, so using it as a method, gives the wrong idea
20:23 woolfy joined #perl6
20:23 TimToady (buffers are supposed to be mutable, of course)
20:23 TimToady so it actually more sense for bufs than for strs
20:23 moritz but, we should totally have the 4-arg substr as a method
20:24 moritz $str.substr($from, $to, $replacment)
20:24 moritz which just returns the new string
20:24 TimToady and you use .= to mutate
20:25 * colomon is starting to suspect his parrakudo problems have something to do with a borked install
20:25 lucas p6: class A {}; my A $a .= new; say 'alive';
20:25 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/tmpfile line 1:â�¤------> [32mclass A {}; my A [33mâ��[31m$a .= new; say 'alive';[0mâ�¤â�¤aliveâ�¤Â»
20:25 mathw joined #perl6
20:25 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 4459c5: OUTPUT«alive␤»
20:25 lucas p6: class A {}; my A $a = $a.new; say 'alive';
20:25 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 4459c5, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«alive␤»
20:26 uniejo joined #perl6
20:30 lizmat TimToady: so yes to .subbuf-rw, but no to .substr-rw ?
20:36 denis_boyun joined #perl6
20:39 dalek modules.perl6.org: 7f0ccaa | (Tim Smith)++ | web/readme.png:
20:39 dalek modules.perl6.org: Fix blurry readme.png icon
20:39 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/7f0ccaa9a7
20:39 dalek modules.perl6.org: 40f0e18 | (Tim Smith)++ | web/ (4 files):
20:39 dalek modules.perl6.org: Give badge icons a bit more breathing room
20:39 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/40f0e18fb0
20:41 uniejo joined #perl6
20:48 dalek perl6-bench: e99a064 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (4 files):
20:48 dalek perl6-bench: Add rc-self-describing-numbers minibenchmark
20:48 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/e99a06419d
20:49 silug joined #perl6
20:51 masak $ perl6 -e 'for ^13 { for ^0 {}; (my $)++ }'
20:51 masak Spesh: failed to fix up handlers (134, -1, 156)
20:51 masak (locally, on a fresh build)
20:51 masak This is perl6 version 2014.06-11-g4459c54 built on MoarVM version 2014.05-2-gb1add28
20:52 nwc10 was about to go to bed so can't add anything to
20:52 nwc10 "doesn't (not) work on my machine"
20:52 nwc10 This is perl6 version 2014.06-11-g4459c54 built on MoarVM version 2014.06-6-gd2e0732
20:53 nwc10 ./perl6-m -e 'for ^13 { for ^0 {}; (my $)++ }'
20:53 * nwc10 see no output
20:54 vendethiel m: for ^13 { for ^0 {}; (my $)++ }
20:54 camelia rakudo-moar 4459c5: ( no output )
20:54 jnthn masak: 2014.05-2? That's...strangely old, no?
20:55 jnthn Also, I'm sure I already fixed bugs giving that error...
20:55 nwc10 masak: my MoarVM seems to be 4 commits newer than yors
20:56 jnthn 4 commit *and a month*
20:56 nwc10 oh yes. oops
20:56 nwc10 I am clearly not very useful and shall go to bed.
20:56 jnthn :)
20:56 nwc10 Good night world.
20:56 * jnthn should do similar soon
20:58 lizmat goodnight nwc10, jnthn
21:04 Akagi201 joined #perl6
21:15 lucas I'm still a little lost on the specs; can someone tell me where does it says that an our-scoped variable cannot have a type constraint? Example: "our Foo $foo;". Does this makes sense?
21:21 FROGGS__ lucas: I don't see why type constraints on our scoped vars should be forbidden...
21:21 lizmat I'm not sure, but maybe because 'our' variables are more like dynamic variables, and thus basically runtime determined?
21:21 FROGGS__ and... I can't find anything about that in the spec
21:22 lizmat FROGGS__: good to see you awake:
21:22 FROGGS__ hi lizmat
21:22 timotimo lizmat: er, what?
21:22 lizmat do we support use Foo:from<nqp> already?
21:22 lizmat and if so, where in the code is that handled?
21:23 FROGGS__ m: use QAST:from<NQP>; my Mu $q := QAST::Op.new(); say $q.HOW.name($q)
21:23 camelia rakudo-moar 4459c5: OUTPUT«QAST::Op␤»
21:23 FROGGS__ in src/Perl6/ModuleLoader, at the top of load_module
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: a7b4cba | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnit.pm:
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: Some more work on CompUnit, not yet functional
21:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a7b4cbaa5a
21:24 lizmat okidoki
21:24 HaraldJoerg joined #perl6
21:25 lucas FROGGS__: I don't see why also. I don't know if it is specced or not. Rakudo died with a message "Cannot put a type constraint on an 'our'-scoped variable"
21:25 FROGGS__ lucas: right, but std does not
21:26 FROGGS__ our Foo $foo; # niecza
21:26 FROGGS__ n: our Foo $foo; # niecza
21:26 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Malformed our at /tmp/SU6kFuPnSj line 1:�------> [32mour[33m�[31m Foo $foo; # niecza[0m��Parse failed��»
21:26 FROGGS__ n: our Int $foo; # niecza
21:26 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Common variables are not unique definitions and may not have types at /tmp/Qyac0fM8y4 line 1:â�¤------> [32mour Int $foo[33mâ��[31m; # niecza[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niec…»
21:26 lucas p6: class A {}; our A $a;
21:26 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Common variables are not unique definitions and may not have types at /tmp/tmpfile line 1:â�¤------> [32mclass A {}; our A $a[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/b…»
21:26 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 4459c5: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Cannot put a type constraint on an 'our'-scoped variableâ�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤------> [32mclass A {}; our A $a[33mâ��[31m;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        scoped dec…»
21:27 FROGGS__ either niecza explains it better or both are wrong :o)
21:28 masak agreed; though I don't believe "Common variables" is common terminology :)
21:28 lizmat std: our Int $a = 42
21:28 camelia std 0f2049c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
21:28 lizmat std thinks it's ok
21:28 lizmat also, seems like bfd8508f5ceee565380da201ef25bdfb6feb2b3d was the commit, by FROGGS__  in May last year
21:29 timotimo lizmat: i'm pretty sure we know all our-scoped stuff at compile-time, don't we?
21:29 lizmat well, I was clutching at straws, really
21:29 lizmat as I couldn't think of a reason
21:30 jnthn Not sure what's unclear about Rakudo's error. It tells you what you tried to do, and says it's not allowed.
21:30 masak std: sub foo { our Int $x }; sub bar { our Str $x }
21:30 camelia std 0f2049c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
21:30 masak the above is the problematic bit.
21:30 FROGGS__ O.o
21:31 jnthn Also, STD is mostly about syntax, not about semantics.
21:31 jnthn So I'd not especially expect it to complain about this one.
21:31 masak *nod*
21:31 masak though it certainly could.
21:31 lizmat masak: but that could be handled as an error at compile time, no?
21:32 lucas isn't "our TYPE $var" a syntax thing?
21:32 jnthn lizmat: The error Rakudo gives today is compile time? Same for Niecza's.
21:32 jnthn lucas: No; it parses fine, just doesn't work out semantically.
21:32 lizmat no, I mean:
21:32 punter joined #perl6
21:33 lizmat sub a { our Int $foo }; sub b { our Str $foo }
21:33 punter would donating to any Perl 6 body speed up its development?
21:33 jnthn m: sub a { our Int $foo }; sub b { our Str $foo }
21:33 camelia rakudo-moar 4459c5: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/50lgPw_8eQâ�¤Cannot put a type constraint on an 'our'-scoped variableâ�¤at /tmp/50lgPw_8eQ:1â�¤------> [32msub a { our Int $foo [33mâ��[31m}; sub b { our Str $foo }[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤â€¦Â»
21:34 lizmat jnthn: I'm still not clear as to why we don't have types on "our" variables
21:34 lizmat aka:
21:34 FROGGS__ punter: I'm not sure... more hands could help though :o)  (like module porters...)
21:34 lizmat m: our Int $a = 42;
21:34 camelia rakudo-moar 4459c5: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/rObavPtiYCâ�¤Cannot put a type constraint on an 'our'-scoped variableâ�¤at /tmp/rObavPtiYC:1â�¤------> [32mour Int $a [33mâ��[31m= 42;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        scoped declaratorâ�¤  â€¦Â»
21:34 lucas I'm fine with Rakudo not accepting it. I just wish I had read about it in the spec somewhere.
21:34 jnthn lizmat: Too many semantic issues with supporting it.
21:34 punter FROGGS__, I ain't good with programming. Just have billions in the bank (j/k)
21:35 jnthn lizmat: Especially when you consider the binding side of things too.
21:35 FROGGS__ punter: *g*
21:35 punter FROGGS__, can't you hire people with money?
21:35 punter FROGGS__, that way, money would help
21:35 punter no eh?
21:35 punter ok
21:35 zengargoyle is there a $INPUT_RECORD_SEPARATOR equivalent?  open("path", :nl("...")) doesn't seem to exist yet.
21:36 FROGGS__ punter: I just can speak for myself, and I already spend as much time as I can... I mean money is nice but it would not help me helping Perl 6 more
21:36 FROGGS__ zengargoyle: I remember that this is not yet implemented... would be nice to be proven wrong
21:36 lizmat punter: what would help, is paying someone like jnthn or masak for a course in Perl 6
21:37 FROGGS__ gnight #perl6, will read you tomorrow
21:37 lizmat like the "introduction to NQP" course
21:37 jnthn punter: A lot of people working on Perl 6 have other jobs too, and it's not always easy for them to put that aside.
21:37 lizmat and making sure the materials would be open source :-)
21:38 jnthn That is, if I want to turn more money into more Perl 6 time, it'll need some substantial life refactors as a pre-req...
21:38 lizmat (and paying jnthn and/or masak through their $work)
21:38 zengargoyle yeah, it doesn't throw NYI but seems to be missing.  seems whenever i get an itch to do a little p6 i want something that's not there yet. :/
21:39 hoelzro I'm trying to play with the role machinery via Metamodel::ParametricRoleHOW.new_type(:name('MyRole')), but I get an error message when I try this.  Is there something I'm missing?
21:39 punter ok I'm convinced. I won't donate, because I don't know how to do it.
21:39 punter there are no receivers here: https://www.gittip.com/for/perl-6/
21:39 punter neither froggs nor flies or jnthn
21:40 timotimo punter: it just means nobody is receiving money yet there
21:40 punter timotimo, are they receiving somewhere else?
21:40 punter TPF perhaps?
21:41 jnthn hoelzro: Well, what's the error? :)
21:41 jnthn hoelzro: The compiler assembles roles using that mechanism, so it must work *somehow* ;)
21:41 punter I'm going back to programming my jabber server
21:41 jnthn punter: TPF have managed Perl 6 related grant stuff, certainly.
21:41 punter oh ok
21:41 * jnthn has taken grants in the past through TPF
21:41 timotimo punter: also, you can select gittip to not show you in receivers lists at all
21:42 hoelzro jnthn: Unhandled exception: Could not instantiate role 'MyRole':
21:42 hoelzro I'm wondering if I have to set something up before I call new_type
21:42 jnthn hoelzro: Hmmm...not something ending up sink-contexting it?
21:42 timotimo punter: a good choice for donations is money to help people attend conferences and hackathons
21:43 hoelzro jnthn: here's the source: https://gist.github.com/hoelzro/5bfb326cd980070bacb4
21:43 jnthn m: my $r := Metamodel::ParametricRoleHOW.new_type(:name('MyRole')); say 'ok'
21:43 camelia rakudo-moar 4459c5: OUTPUT«ok␤»
21:43 hoelzro ah
21:43 hoelzro binding, not assignment, maybe
21:43 jnthn hoelzro: Last line of the program is sunk, I think.
21:43 jnthn m: my $r = Metamodel::ParametricRoleHOW.new_type(:name('MyRole')); say 'ok'
21:43 camelia rakudo-moar 4459c5: OUTPUT«ok␤»
21:43 hoelzro huh
21:44 hoelzro sure enough
21:44 hoelzro thanks jnthn =)
21:44 jnthn np
21:44 jnthn OK, I got teaching tomorrow, and despite the fact that night time doesn't happen in this part of the world this time of year, I need some sleep :)
21:44 jnthn 'night, #perl6
21:44 lizmat gnight. jnthn
21:44 hoelzro 'night jnthn
21:47 punter left #perl6
21:49 lucas Is there a command line tool that works just like this IRC bot, where I pass my program (file or -e) and it executes in all implementations and joins the output? Such a program already exist?
21:51 masak lucas: not to my knowledge. but it's a pretty great idea.
22:02 woolfy left #perl6
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22:04 lizmat joined #perl6
22:05 Akagi201 joined #perl6
22:06 lizmat lucas: the bot code is public, so could be a source of inspiration :-)
22:07 lucas lizmat: yes!! I'll seach its source code in the repos...
22:07 lucas *search
22:08 lizmat :-)
22:08 timotimo should be called "evalbot"
22:08 lizmat AntiArrivalDinner&
22:08 HaraldJoerg left #perl6
22:14 masak 'night, #perl6
22:15 woolfy joined #perl6
22:19 tempire joined #perl6
22:21 kivutar joined #perl6
22:25 hoelzro night masak
22:25 hoelzro is it possible to do EXPORTHOW magic without creating a separate file?
22:28 ivan`` joined #perl6
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