Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-07-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 R0b0t1 Oh for some reason I thought that was perl6.
00:00 R0b0t1 Disregard.
00:03 * raiph [1, 2, 3].itemized would mean the three items "1", "2", and "3" individually according to conventional use of the word "itemized". Maybe we use "as item" (and "as list" and "as hash" etc.) instead, with the longer "as an item" in contexts that really demand smoother English.
00:03 timotimo where does that come up, raiph?
00:04 timotimo R0b0t1: a perl6 equivalent to mojolicious is something we'd like to have
00:05 psch Web looks like it's steps into that direction, superficially
00:05 psch but then it also seems to be rotting
00:05 raiph timotimo: My prior comment was poorly worded
00:06 timotimo psch: you mean the Web:: namespace of modules we have on modules.perl6.org at the moment?
00:06 raiph timotimo: I mean when people say "itemized array". The regular dictionary defintion of "itemized" (eg "itemized list") means to individually list the items in a list.
00:06 timotimo oh
00:07 timotimo that's a good point
00:07 psch timotimo: right. i found it on github as perl6-web
00:07 R0b0t1 timotimo: Yeah, that's how I got about searching for perl web frameworks, read something about a lack of perl6 equivalent
00:07 raiph _sri has said he's looking forward to porting mojolicious to P6 when P6 is ready.
00:07 timotimo oh, that's nice
00:07 psch timotimo: i guess Web::App is actually what's steps-towards mojolicious, if more verbose in the examples
00:08 timotimo what do you mean when you say Web::App?
00:09 timotimo on the modules list i see Web::App::Ballet and Web::App::MVC
00:09 psch https://github.com/supernovus/perl6-web the example has "use Web::App" :)
00:09 psch the first one
00:09 timotimo oh
00:10 psch i'm still mostly looking at (hopefully sensibly placed) debugging says in ModuleLoader to wrap my header around where to look wrt this jvm bug, so i apologize if i'm not that coherent
00:10 timotimo head*
00:10 timotimo :)
00:11 psch right :)
00:11 psch that was the web-stuff :P
00:12 timotimo i'm excited to see where HTTP::Server::Async leads us and how hard it'll be for stuff to sit atop either HTTP::Server::Simple or HTTP::Server::Async and not b0rk
00:14 raiph R0b0t1:_sri has been waiting patiently for years. He tweeted a month or two ago "#perl6 is starting to reach the point where i would love to spend more time on a port of #mojolicious."
00:14 timotimo have we tried to come up with a specific list of deliverables yet?
00:15 R0b0t1 raiph: I shall wait with baited breath.
00:15 * R0b0t1 rustles impatiently
00:15 timotimo it may not happen *that* quickly :)
00:16 psch what confuses me most right now is that packages from precompiled modules apparently don't go through World.install_package
00:16 psch but maybe that just happens somewhere jvm specific?
00:17 psch to clarify: i have debug says in install_package, and on the jvm those don't get executed when running with precompiled modules; on moar they do get executed
00:17 psch it does get executed when precompiling, but on moar it happens in both cases
00:18 psch is that just an architectural difference?
00:18 psch (and is it even related? :P)
00:23 timotimo i'm not really familiar with that corner of rakudo/nqp :(
00:24 psch me neither! :D
00:25 psch i think i'll let this sit for now, i'm not really awake enough anymore it seems
00:25 Mouq Didn't [Coke]++ start on a Mojo port?
00:26 timotimo i think he started working on some modules that could kind of stand alone, iirc
00:26 Mouq https://github.com/coke/mojo6
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00:26 Mouq Mojo::Util
00:28 Mouq Does sergot++'s work factor into this?
00:28 timotimo i wonder the same thing
00:29 timotimo he's writing some stuff related to parsing headers and such, so that's kinda similar to a Request object you'd have in a mojolicious thingie
00:30 psch there's also one rather weird comment in the jvm ModuleLoaderVMConfig: "might be good to error here" in if $have_jar { }
00:30 psch anyway, i wanted to go to sleep... :)
00:30 psch g'night everyone o/
00:48 zengargoyle timotimo: i think rakudobrew does let you switch versions in some fashion..
00:48 zengargoyle $ rakudobrew list
00:48 zengargoyle * moar-2014.06 moar-HEAD
00:49 zengargoyle at least it can switch between tagged versions and head.
00:50 anotherone you are doing a hard work
00:50 anotherone congratulations
00:51 anotherone still with the "hack" energy as in puberty, just saw that in dragonfly bsd community
00:51 anotherone sorry XD
00:55 anotherone i think perl 6 is in good hands, will try it
00:56 anotherone nice code all
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02:06 dalek perl6-roast-data: d41be7a | coke++ | / (6 files):
02:06 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
02:06 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/d41be7a360
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02:32 dalek roast: 25668e6 | coke++ | / (50 files):
02:32 dalek roast: Prefer RT #XXXXXX
02:32 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/25668e62a8
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02:43 marcg I want to get involved with Perl 6. I am well versed in Perl 5, but know little of 6. I am into cryptography, so I am thinking about implementing some crypto algorithms in P6: DES, AES. These are apparently "most wanted": https://github.com/perl6/perl6-most-wanted/blob/master/most-wanted/modules.md. What is the best way to learn enough p6 to write
02:43 marcg a module I won't be embarrassed of?
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02:55 dalek roast: 99fe062 | coke++ | S17-supply/ (18 files):
02:55 dalek roast: Reference RT #122229
02:55 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122229
02:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/99fe06253e
02:55 dalek roast: b43c840 | coke++ | S03-metaops/zip.t:
02:55 dalek roast: mark tests for RT #122230
02:55 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122230
02:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b43c840806
02:57 [Coke] marcg: if you're familiar with perl5, looking at the synopses (modeled after the camel book chapters) might be a good start. there is a spec test suite with examples of a lot of the syntax described there. also a growing list of modules. doc.perl6.org also
03:00 dalek roast: 08eb153 | coke++ | S03-metaops/hyper.t:
03:00 dalek roast: Another instance of RT #122230
03:00 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122230
03:00 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/08eb1535c5
03:02 [Coke] m: subset MyInt of Int where True; my MyInt $x = 5; $x = Nil; say $x.WHAT;
03:02 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«(MyInt)␤»
03:02 [Coke] m: subset MyInt of Int where True; my MyInt $x = 5; $x = Nil; say $x === Int
03:02 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«False␤»
03:02 [Coke] m: subset MyInt of Int where True; my MyInt $x = 5; $x = Nil; say $x === MyInt
03:02 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«True␤»
03:03 marcg Coke, thanks
03:04 [Coke] ^^ That's in S02-types/nil.t - added in 2011 by sorear. Is that still a valid assumption, that it should be === Int ?
03:04 [Coke] If not, there's a few todos in there marked "triage" that can probably be cleaned up.
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03:26 zengargoyle marcg: the advent calendar blogs are a nice collection of chunks of random gleanings.
03:26 zengargoyle http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/
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03:55 dalek roast: 49b617b | coke++ | S02-types/declare.t:
03:55 dalek roast: canonicalize on "NYI"
03:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/49b617b959
03:55 dalek roast: ad2abf4 | coke++ | S (17 files):
03:55 dalek roast: standardize on NYI for things not yet implemented
03:55 dalek roast:
03:55 dalek roast: unimplemented for things that shouldn't be implemented
03:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ad2abf4966
03:55 dalek roast: e543e6e | coke++ | S02-types/array.t:
03:55 dalek roast: prefer RT #XXXXX
03:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e543e6e4a5
03:55 dalek roast: e97bc95 | coke++ | / (25 files):
03:55 dalek roast: remove pugs fudge-fossil
03:55 dalek roast:
03:55 dalek roast: this re-enables some tests that were commented out before fudge existed.
03:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e97bc95c68
03:55 dalek roast: 3033fd2 | coke++ | S02-names-vars/list_array_perl.t:
03:55 dalek roast: re-comment these out.
03:55 dalek roast:
03:55 dalek roast: Need to properly skip them for rakudo, but that's hard.
03:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3033fd255f
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06:32 ChoHag Surely 3033fd2 should be coke--?
06:34 FROGGS_ ChoHag: we usually don't do that :o)
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06:59 ChoHag How did I get the -fPIC option into libdyncall's build last time?
07:02 ChoHag And thus is demonstrated the importance of reporting bugs and patches as they are discovered.
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07:07 FROGGS_ ChoHag: when the build script does not put it in for you, you perhaps hacked MoarVM's build/setup.pm
07:07 ChoHag No that time it was a much saner hack.
07:07 ChoHag This time I just built dyncall by hand.
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07:08 FROGGS_ the Configure.PL/build.pm should detect the need of -fPIC for sure
07:08 ChoHag Incidentally, rakudo make clean can't because of no j-clean.
07:08 FROGGS_ how do you get that?
07:09 ChoHag Type make clean in top level. See complain about lack of j-clean.
07:09 FROGGS_ I often switch between building all or just a few backends...
07:09 FROGGS_ ChoHag: it does not complain
07:09 ChoHag I'd buggered about with the source/build, so I'm waiting to see what it does after a clean^Wcomplete run through.
07:09 FROGGS_ make j-<tab><tab> shows j-clean also
07:10 ChoHag Then it probably was the source code sodomy.
07:11 FROGGS_ hmmmm
07:11 ChoHag It's just testing the jvm so give me an hour or two...
07:11 ChoHag No not testing. Generating somethign.
07:11 FROGGS_ that is in rakudo's Configure.PL: print $MAKEFILE "clean: ", join(' ', map "$_-clean", @prefixes), "\n";
07:12 FROGGS_ and: my @prefixes = sort map substr($_, 0, 1), keys %backends;
07:12 FROGGS_ so the jvm backend must have been enabled...
07:12 FROGGS_ ahhh
07:13 FROGGS_ when your nqp-j had a problem, it would not append the Makefile-JVM.in to your Makefile
07:13 FROGGS_ but you should've seen an error message then at least
07:13 ChoHag There were probably build failures then.
07:14 FROGGS_ it is not meant to continue then (and it looks like it does not continue)
07:15 FROGGS_ brb
07:17 ChoHag Oh bugger. I just realised I forgot to specify the install location when I kicked the build off.
07:27 FROGGS_ it will be cwd/install I think
07:27 FROGGS_ or nqp/install, not sure
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07:57 masak morning, #perl6
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08:37 zengargoyle m: class F does Associative { has %.k handles Associative; }; my %k := F.new; %k<f>=True; $k<f>.perl.say
08:37 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/iFkUQTnTxwâ�¤Variable '$k' is not declared. Did you mean '%k'?â�¤at /tmp/iFkUQTnTxw:1â�¤------> [32m %k := F.new; %k<f>=True; $k<f>.perl.say[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        â€¦Â»
08:37 zengargoyle m: class F does Associative { has %.k handles Associative; }; my %k := F.new; %k<f>=True; %k<f>.perl.say
08:37 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«postcircumfix:<{ }> not defined for type F␤  in method <anon> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:12877␤  in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2604␤  in any find_method at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:934␤  in method assign_key at src/gen/m-CORE…»
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08:55 zengargoyle > class I is Associative { has %k; method postcircumfix:<{ }> ( **@slice ) { %k
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09:14 ChoHag The debugger complains of a lack of Debugger::UI::CommandLine
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09:24 zengargoyle if you're no using rakudo-star you have to install it yourself
09:26 ChoHag Then I guess it's time to find out how that works.
09:27 zengargoyle install panda
09:27 zengargoyle then: panda install Debugger::UI::CommandLine
09:28 ChoHag That's not how it works.
09:28 ChoHag That's how to use it.
09:29 zengargoyle oh, maybe i missunderstand.  the built-in debugger does have an external dependency on Debugger::UI::CommandLine.
09:30 ChoHag You do, but not in that way. I got that.
09:30 ChoHag I want to know how modules interact with the underlying os. "Use this magic tool" teaches nothing.
09:31 ChoHag I didn't want to know that 5 minutes ago, but now I have an external dependency.
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09:56 jnthn Once, the debugger was completely separate. These days, perl6-debug contains the stuff tied to the compiler that it became an utter pain to maintain on the outside, while the frontend doing the UI stuff lives where it always has.
09:57 ChoHag Hmm. Did I misunderstand the panda source, or does it not use the install method of CompUnitRepo?
09:57 ChoHag Seems to implement its own copy function.
09:58 jnthn I *think* (I may be out of date) that there's a Panda branch to use the (quite recently added) CompUnitRepo, but it isn't quite ready to be the default thing yet.
09:58 ChoHag Ah CUR is a new thing?
09:58 jnthn Yes, and that it handles install is partly born out of the pain of what you see in Panda, iiuc. :)
09:58 ChoHag Heh
10:04 masak I hadn't seen this interview with TheDamian until now: http://www.linuxvoice.com/interview-damian-conway/
10:06 masak and the HN discussion, surprisingly positive towards Perl 6: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7988351
10:06 masak so, if you want people to say good things about Perl 6 on HN, link them to a TheDamian interview! :P
10:09 ChoHag Debugger: Unknown compilation input 'optimize'
10:09 ChoHag Not my code. Optimise has an s.
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10:10 grondilu m: my @a := 1 .. *; @a = @a[0, 2 ... *] # Is this supposed to work?
10:10 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
10:10 jnthn No. Slicing is not lazy.
10:10 grondilu ok
10:11 grondilu is it because it's impossible or something?  It would have provided a neat solution to http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Ludic_numbers#Perl_6
10:12 jnthn Yes. Slicing returns a Parcel of the elements. A Parcel is always a pre-determined length.
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10:26 ChoHag Is there something else that r* would ordinarily have provided to make the debugger work?
10:26 ChoHag I installed the UI module and Term::ANSIColor
10:26 grondilu .oO( sub inifite-splicing(@array, @splice) { gather { take @array[$_] for @splice } } )
10:29 jnthn ChoHag: Those are the only deps I know of
10:29 ChoHag Then my code somehow breaks the debugger.
10:30 ChoHag Wheee!
10:30 jnthn oh, fun...
10:30 jnthn Can you run with --ll-exception and gist me the error?
10:36 ChoHag https://gist.github.com/anonymous/23ac1a19fc27182f7c1c
10:45 jnthn Thanks.
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11:01 dalek nqp: 78f5a7b | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTCompilerMAST.nqp:
11:01 dalek nqp: Add typevar scope handling for MoarVM.
11:01 dalek nqp:
11:01 dalek nqp: Uses op that indicates that the value is invariant with regards to the
11:01 dalek nqp: invocant type.
11:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/78f5a7b818
11:01 dalek nqp: 39f25d9 | jnthn++ | src/vm/ (2 files):
11:01 dalek nqp: On Parrot and JVM, for now typevar means lexical.
11:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/39f25d9831
11:01 dalek nqp: b4b2d6b | jnthn++ | src/NQP/Actions.nqp:
11:01 dalek nqp: Start marking $?CLASS lookup with typevar scope.
11:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b4b2d6b661
11:01 dalek nqp: 04bbf8c | jnthn++ | src/NQP/Actions.nqp:
11:01 dalek nqp: One more place we can use typevar, not lexical.
11:01 dalek nqp:
11:01 dalek nqp: This benefits !cursor_start, meaning that all the attribute accesses
11:01 dalek nqp: in it are now lowered to pointer operations. Le JIT will like this -
11:01 dalek nqp: once it can handle other things inside !cursor_start, anyway.
11:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/04bbf8c5d9
11:01 dalek nqp: 174eb97 | jnthn++ | src/ (4 files):
11:01 dalek nqp: Merge branch 'typevaropt'
11:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/174eb97cff
11:01 dalek nqp: 1d18e2b | jnthn++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
11:01 dalek nqp: Bump MOAR_REVISION for inline/deopt fixes.
11:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/1d18e2bb9d
11:02 grondilu ludic numbers with infinite splicing:  https://gist.github.com/grondilu/f64589d8110917751695
11:03 grondilu (or maybe better called lazy splicing)
11:04 grondilu m: https://gist.github.com/grondilu/f64589d8110917751695
11:04 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«gist not found»
11:04 jnthn Or lazy-splice, to verb it
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11:08 dalek rakudo/nom: 3756b5b | jnthn++ | src/perl6-debug.nqp:
11:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix debug compile pipeline setup.
11:08 dalek rakudo/nom:
11:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Unbusts various constructs under the debugger on non-Parrot backends.
11:08 dalek rakudo/nom: ChoHag++ for reporting.
11:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3756b5b3e3
11:10 ChoHag So what's the basic pull & build procedure for an all-backend rakudo?
11:11 ChoHag If it's not just git pull && make install
11:11 tadzik clone everything, pass --backends=all to nqp and rakudo, I think
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11:12 ChoHag woohoo!
11:12 ChoHag This is the first time being in the debugger.
11:13 ChoHag Naturally, it is time to prepare my daughter to go to an Event, so there's no time to play with it.
11:13 ChoHag Damn kids...
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11:15 masak aw, don't say that.
11:15 masak kids are our future, almost by definition.
11:17 ChoHag They're not my future.
11:17 ChoHag They're their future.
11:18 * grondilu was hesitating to write almost exactly that
11:18 ChoHag Love her to pieces anyway though.
11:18 masak hm, 'our' as in humanity's? I think that's what I meant.
11:19 ChoHag She's a feisty one.
11:19 grondilu "humanity" is quite a big abstraction
11:19 masak yes, I'm grasping for a smaller one.
11:20 masak something like "those of us in this discussion".
11:20 grondilu I mean, humanity does exist, but it's not part of me if I'm not alive.  So kids are not "my" future.
11:22 grondilu not to mention that they are not suppose to grow up as my servants or anything :/  So as ChoHag said, they are not my future, they are theirs.
11:22 ChoHag Engineers make the best parents...
11:23 grondilu even software engineers?
11:25 masak maybe just 'children are the future', then.
11:27 grondilu it's a bit anthropocentric, but yeah I guess.
11:27 BinGOs as long as no one breaks into a bit of whitney houston we should be alright.
11:27 masak grondilu: :P
11:28 masak grondilu: sometimes, as a human, I don't mind being anthropocentric. I don't feel sorry about it.
11:28 masak m: class A::B {}; say A.new
11:28 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«You cannot create an instance of this type␤  in method bless at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:839␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:823␤  in block  at /tmp/1wxY489sYt:1␤␤»
11:28 masak ^^ might want a clearer error message.
11:29 jnthn Including the name rather than "this type" would help, but there's no good way to get hold of it at the moment.
11:30 * masak submits rakudobug
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11:33 masak m: module A {}; say A.new
11:33 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«You cannot create an instance of this type␤  in method bless at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:839␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:823␤  in block  at /tmp/er6k4o2v28:1␤␤»
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11:33 masak m: class A::B {}; say A.WHO
11:33 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«("B" => A::B).hash␤»
11:33 masak m: class A::B {}; say A.WHAT
11:33 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«(A)␤»
11:33 masak m: class A::B {}; say A.HOW.^name
11:34 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«Perl6::Metamodel::PackageHOW␤»
11:34 masak ah.
11:34 masak jnthn: if we just changed the error message to "You tried to call .new on a package", what wouldn't work out so well?
11:35 jnthn We don't know it's not a package.
11:35 jnthn uh
11:35 jnthn we don't know it's a package
11:35 jnthn m: subset Foo of Int where * > 42; Foo.new
11:35 camelia rakudo-moar 44d535: OUTPUT«You cannot create an instance of this type␤  in method bless at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:839␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:823␤  in block  at /tmp/OB7IGFcd5K:1␤␤»
11:36 masak ok, fair enough.
11:36 masak I suspected something like that might be the case.
11:36 jnthn There's an Uninstantiable REPR at the bottom of all these.
11:37 masak *nod*
11:38 masak but still, an error message saying "Tried to instantiate A but it is a {A.HOW.^name}" would be ideal, no?
11:40 jnthn but it isn't a PackageHOW, it's a Package. And you can't make a method call in a REPR. That's against the rules.
11:40 masak oh :/
11:41 jnthn Don't "oh :/". Those rules keep a dozen other things sane.
11:41 masak then I don't know of a good solution.
11:41 masak it wasn't disappointment at the rule as such. I'm sure it's a great rule.
11:41 masak it was disappointment at the fact that there isn't an easy fix.
11:42 jnthn If there's any fix, it's to do what method dispatch does, which is let the HLL supply a handler for such errors, so it can rewrite them cleanly into some other exception type.
11:43 masak ok.
11:44 masak https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=122232
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12:44 colomon_ tadzik: ping?
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12:59 tadzik colomon_: pong
13:00 tadzik 'sup?
13:00 colomon_ I think Build.pm overrides don't work right in emmentaler
13:01 colomon_ or to be precise: I don't think they get the emmentaler temp library install in their INC path.
13:02 tadzik hm
13:03 tadzik I don't know why it would
13:04 tadzik oh hm
13:04 tadzik @*INC.push('.')
13:04 tadzik perhaps that'd work better if it was '/full/path/to/cwd' rather than '.'?
13:04 tadzik or not
13:05 tadzik nah, I don't see anything that'd be impacted by a custom installation path
13:08 nwc10 there's a structural bug in the TAP parser
13:08 nwc10 This isn't seen as a TODO:
13:08 nwc10 not ok 49 - .split('') does the same thing as .split(/''/) (RT #112868)# TODO RT #112868
13:08 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=112868
13:08 nwc10 nor this, and the 2 that follow it:
13:08 nwc10 not ok 142 - RT #116280# TODO RT #116280
13:08 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=116280
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13:09 nwc10 that's t/spec/S32-str/split-simple.rakudo.moar and t/spec/S32-str/sprintf.rakudo.moar
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13:15 jnthn nwc10: On moar master, any less ASAN explosions? I'd been hoping the scan_registers one may have been fixed by one of my patches earlier today. If that doesn't get it, it'll be something else...
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13:23 colomon_ tadzik: (sorry for spacing out there) The thing is, on a normal install Build.pm has access to all installed modules, including any dependencies built for it.
13:23 colomon_ but when you run smoker, it builds the dependencies somewhere not on the normal INC path.
13:24 colomon_ I'm thinking in addition to @*INC.push('."), it needs .push("$.destdir/lib") (or something to that effect.
13:25 * colomon_ is going afm due to Harry Potter reading
13:25 colomon_ @afk
13:33 nwc10 jnthn: not sure. t/spec/S32-list/pick.rakudo.moar failed but I can't see why
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13:33 nwc10 t/spec/S32-list/roll.t remains ASAN unhappy
13:34 nwc10 I don't see any backtraces with scan_registers
13:34 nwc10 I'll disable the fixed size allocator and rebuid
13:34 nwc10 although my fan club is watching me
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13:58 cognominal I wrote a p6 script that massages Grammar.pm to generate a dot file that visualizes the relation between the rules of the pod "subgrammar".  The result :  https://gist.github.com/cognominal/48bf8612f856747cefb0.   With graphviz installed, use  dot -Tpdf pod.dot > pod.pdf  to see the graph
14:03 BenGoldberg Not that it matters, but you know that the title of that page is "A fist shot", not "A first shot" ?
14:06 cognominal :)
14:08 cognominal BenGoldberg, using dot, it is appropriate that programming becomes a boxing art.
14:20 flussence (I've got a distro package manager that can output to dot... but graphviz doesn't handle 1000+ nodes in a single graph gracefully :)
14:21 cognominal I did once a dot graph for the Perl 5 grammar, it was unreadable.
14:25 arnsholt I'm not sure the Perl 5 grammar is for mortals to understand
14:26 timotimo flussence: i think as long as you don't use PNG output, it should be fine
14:27 cognominal arnsholt, Perl 5 grammar is ok but the lexer is a crime against sane programming.
14:28 arnsholt Oh. I thought the grammar was where the real insanity was. Good to have that cleared up =)
14:28 cognominal the aphorism should be : only Perl 5 can lex Perl 5
14:28 masak guess TimToady learned his lesson on that one. Perl 6 doesn't even *have* a lexer! :P
14:29 masak cognominal: isn't it C lexing Perl 5, though?
14:29 cognominal dura lex sed Perl 5 lex.
14:29 cognominal masak: yes
14:29 arnsholt cognominal++ # Latin jokes! =D
14:29 cognominal with sed, that's a unix joke too.
14:30 arnsholt FWIW, I don't know of any better representation of grammars than grammars
14:30 arnsholt They're not very grokkable, but any alternatives are worse IME
14:32 timotimo why don't we have a tool that turns grammars into railroad diagrams yet?
14:32 cognominal sometimes, I would like a bnfy role to twiddle grammar syntax so as to write   <subrule>  as subrule, and  forces to write string as 'string'.
14:33 timotimo .o( can always implement source filters )
14:34 cognominal timotimo:  and avertize Perl 6 as the new Pascal :)  and moar bytecode as the new pcode
14:34 cognominal probably one could translate pcode into moar bytecode.
14:35 timotimo %)
14:35 cognominal I don't have seen any other language than Pascal with syntax presented as railroad.
14:36 timotimo sqlite, dogeon
14:36 cognominal http://primepuzzle.com/tp2/syntax-diagrams.html
14:38 timotimo super helpful: the letter and digit railroads ...
14:40 cognominal A clickable railroad to go from one rule to another would be nice.
14:41 cognominal A railroad is a good way to learn a grammar without knowing the syntax of a grammar.
14:42 timotimo aye
14:43 cognominal Except it must be stripped from assertions.
14:44 timotimo that's right
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14:44 timotimo but things like "this variable name must refer to an already defined variable" is not something you'd see in a traditional "grammar" anyway
14:45 cognominal but for a first approach of a grammar, decrypting assertion  is usually more an hindrance than a benefit
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16:43 vendethiel m: sub foo(::T $) { say T }; foo(1);
16:43 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
16:43 vendethiel m: sub foo(::T *@) { say T }; foo((1,));
16:43 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/dXxQAAV1GJâ�¤Slurpy positionals with type constraints are not supported.â�¤at /tmp/dXxQAAV1GJ:1â�¤------> [32msub foo(::T *@[33mâ��[31m) { say T }; foo((1,));[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤      â€¦Â»
16:43 vendethiel m: sub foo(::T @) { say T }; foo((1,));
16:43 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
16:43 vendethiel mh, yeah ...
16:48 vendethiel Is there some kind of shortcut I'm missing to call a method on an object and just return it ?
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16:58 FROGGS_ m: class Foo { method bar { self } }; say Foo.new.bar
16:58 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«Foo.new()␤»
16:58 FROGGS_ vendethiel: ^^
17:00 FROGGS_ m: class Foo { has &.bar = -> Str $baz { 42 } }; say Foo.new.bar.("huh") # how can I avoid the dot before () ?
17:00 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«42␤»
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17:03 masak FROGGS_: you can't, because without the dot it means a different thing.
17:04 masak FROGGS_: .bar("huh") means "call the accessor of $!bar"
17:04 masak FROGGS_: .bar.("huh") means "call whatever's *in* what the accessor returns"
17:04 masak there's some wording about this somewhere, probably in S12.
17:05 FROGGS_ I think this disagrees: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#Ampersand_and_invocation
17:06 ChoHag Hooray I can use the debugger! :) .... Boo the debugger doesn't like threads :(
17:06 FROGGS_ bbiab
17:07 jnthn ChoHag: No, it really doesn't; it hasn't been updated since threads started to exist in Rakudo.
17:07 ChoHag Had I considered it for half a second, I'd have expected it.
17:08 ChoHag I was too excited by the prospects of a) running in moar, and b) having a debugger at all.
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17:10 ssutch hello
17:10 masak FROGGS_: no, that's concordant with what I'm saying.
17:10 masak ssutch: oh hai.
17:13 ssutch rakudo: say (*+2)(4);
17:14 camelia rakudo-jvm 3756b5: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
17:14 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 3756b5: OUTPUT«6␤»
17:22 ChoHag Unhandled exception in code scheduled on thread 34630670336
17:22 ChoHag No exception handler located for warn in method Str at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1018
17:22 ChoHag I don't call warn.
17:36 masak probably something internal did.
17:38 vendethiel FROGGS[mobile]: I thing you misunderstood me. I'm looking for something to call a function that returns whatever atm and have it return the object
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17:53 zengargoyle are any of the Types implemented in pure p6?
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17:54 vendethiel the Types ?
17:54 vendethiel you mean like array and suchs ?
17:54 vendethiel zengargoyle: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/Array.pm
17:55 zengargoyle yeah, like Set or Hash, are there any where their source wouldn't have some NQP in them somewhere.
17:56 lelf Is there good emacs mode? (I see only p6-mode.el)
18:00 masak lelf: there's that, and I always felt cperl-model.el did a good job with Perl 6, too.
18:01 FROGGS_ vendethiel: what is 'the object' ?
18:02 vendethiel FROGGS[mobile]: i.e. `sub call($obj, Str $meth) { $obj."$meth"(); $obj }`
18:02 FROGGS_ vendethiel: well, then do exactly that
18:02 vendethiel and I wanted to know if it existed ATM in the libs
18:03 FROGGS_ m: sub call($obj, Str $meth) { $obj."$meth"(); $obj }; call(42, 'say')
18:03 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«42␤»
18:03 FROGGS_ m: sub call($obj, Str $meth) { $obj."$meth"(); $obj }; say call(42, 'say')
18:03 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«42␤42␤»
18:03 vendethiel http://jlongster.com/Compiling-JSX-with-Sweet.js-using-Readtables <- cool readtables with sweetJS
18:03 FROGGS_ but there is not built-in that does that
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18:06 masak vendethiel: is 'readtable' a Lisp/Scheme notion?
18:06 ChoHag My attribute trait stopped working :(
18:06 vendethiel masak: yep. Reader macros
18:06 vendethiel i.e., in CL, you can program `]` to be "the number of closing parens you need".
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18:07 masak vendethiel: just found http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/readtables.html -- interesting.
18:07 vendethiel racket++
18:13 dalek perl6-bench: b36e80b | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | microbenchmarks.pl:
18:13 dalek perl6-bench: Add first two Rat microbenchmarks
18:13 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/b36e80b567
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18:27 itz_ I was wondering what language racket resembled but the logo rather gives the game away...
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18:41 * masak .oO( the language resembles a teepee? ) :P
18:44 ssutch omg moar starts up so fast
18:45 ssutch is there a way to supplement -I via environment variables?
18:46 itz_ PERL6LIB
18:46 ssutch <3 itz_
18:47 masak yes, moar's startup is pretty impressive.
18:48 ssutch (back to p6 after a year hiatus. previously, on ssutch: parrot)
18:50 jnthn r-m managed to regress a bit recently startup time wise, sadly
18:50 jnthn Well, more the r and then m, and probably all backends.
18:50 ssutch still, pretty awesome and back-pats all around
18:50 jnthn But yeah, Moar wins on startup time out of them still :)
18:58 japhb_ jnthn: OOC, why the startup time regression?  Just more in the setting?
18:58 jnthn japhb_: The setup work for @*INC using the new CompUnitRepo stuff
18:59 jnthn lizmat++ is aware of it and I think has plans to investigate :)
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19:57 zengargoyle i've come to the conclusion that i'm bad at YNGTNI
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20:04 zengargoyle 3 simple Bool flags became a restricted SetHash with an EnumMap that still doesn't do what i want.  and i'm not even supporting 2 of the flags in the first place!
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20:08 nwc10 Might be of some interest to some folks here if they've not already seen it: http://morepypy.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/pypy-stm-first-interesting-release.html
20:09 nwc10 The followup 3 months later is likely to be more interesting than this one: http://alexgaynor.net/2014/jul/04/your-python-has-evolved/
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20:10 ssutch so i rakudo'd with --gen-moar --gen-nqp --backends=moar; do i have to install something else to get the debugger?
20:10 ssutch perl6-debug-m complains of a missing Debugger::UI::CommandLine
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20:14 ssutch ok derp, had to install panda and the library
20:14 jnthn Yes, you need to install that library to provide a UI for the debugger
20:15 jnthn The thing inside Rakudo is just the "driver", which needs maintaining along with the compiler
20:16 ssutch cool, thanks jnthn
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20:18 FROGGS_ Stage parse      : error:imcc:loadlib directive could not find library `nqp_dyncall_ops' :o(
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20:20 jnthn tssk
20:20 jnthn I have a multi-backend patch for NQP and the NQP Parrot build jsut failed for me.
20:20 FROGGS_ I added the nativecast op but I dunno what went wrong
20:21 jnthn I jsut get loads of:
20:21 jnthn nqp_group.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol __imp_Parrot_pmc_new
20:21 jnthn nqplexinfo.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol __imp_Parrot_interp_register_native_pcc_method_in_ns
20:21 FROGGS_ O.o
20:22 FROGGS_ when was the last time your built nqp-p?
20:22 jnthn Not sure
20:22 jnthn Could be a couple of weeks ago
20:23 FROGGS_ because we upgraded to parrot 6.5.0 at the tuesday before our 2014.06 happened
20:28 dalek nqp: 32ddb22 | jnthn++ | src/vm/ (4 files):
20:28 dalek nqp: Add cleardispatcher op for all backends.
20:28 dalek nqp:
20:28 dalek nqp: Provides a way to clear the dispatcher, rather than taking it. Leads to
20:28 dalek nqp: simpler code when an optimzier can emit it. MoarVM and JVM patches known
20:28 dalek nqp: to build fine; wasn't able to build Parrot, but should be right.
20:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/32ddb22077
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom: ebd3166 | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Try to optimize takedispatcher to cleardispatcher.
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom: The latter is cheaper and simpler code. In many of the simple ops,
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom: we do not make any kind of call, and thus could never call one of
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom: the defering things (nextsame, etc.)
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ebd31662e4
20:32 timotimo jnthn: "Make be able to simplify"? :)
20:32 jnthn heh, where is that?
20:32 jnthn My English is awesome.
20:32 timotimo Make English is Awesome
20:33 dalek rakudo/nom: fc49436 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
20:33 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix typo; timotimo++.
20:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fc4943635c
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20:35 timotimo :P
20:36 timotimo success! i took about a minute of your valuable optimizer work time away from you to fix a little typo!
20:36 timotimo i feel so productive and helpful ... not!
20:37 masak timotimo++ # ... so!
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21:11 zengargoyle https://github.com/zengargoyle/Text-Fortune.git  is probably ready for a lookover and maybe ecosystem
21:13 zengargoyle it has some not-great stuff, but does do a version of strffile(1) and fortune(6)
21:13 zengargoyle *strfile(1)
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21:32 masak good night, #perl6
21:34 japhb_ g'night, masak
21:34 japhb_ What is the right way to round a num and get an int in NQP?
21:34 japhb_ (Or Num/Int, for that matter)
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22:02 ssutch i must be missing something. i should be able to do IO::Spec.os.join('foo','barf') correct?
22:04 ssutch or even just IO::Spec.join('foo', 'barf') but its complaining about not having enough arguments
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22:06 ssutch ah no its right i dont think join does what i was expecting (take 'a','b','c' and turn it into 'a/b/c' in a platform-generic way)
22:06 FROGGS_ catpath or so should do
22:07 ssutch m: say IO::Spec.catpath('a','b')
22:07 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 3 but expected 4␤  in method catpath at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13376␤  in method catpath at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13761␤  in block  at /tmp/DFmBLt_Qmg:1␤␤»
22:08 FROGGS_ m: say IO::Spec.catdir('a','b')
22:08 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«a/b␤»
22:09 ssutch aye, thanks FROGGS_
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22:20 ssutch im getting No such method 'IO' for invocant of type 'Any' for this code: https://gist.github.com/samuraisam/c59386f4059f349f6e10
22:20 ssutch does that not seem somewhat strange?
22:21 FROGGS_ m: say IO::Spec.catdir($?FILE, 'Proto', 'ql2_13x.proto');
22:21 camelia rakudo-moar 3756b5: OUTPUT«/tmp/tUFgelVQ_0/Proto/ql2_13x.proto␤»
22:21 FROGGS_ I have no idea why
22:22 FROGGS_ perhaps it is something in PB::Model::Generator?
22:29 ssutch derp, it must be
22:29 ssutch i'm full of derps today
22:30 FROGGS_ *g*
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: 0cc9125 | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: Fix a .DEFINITE code-gen bug.
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc:
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: Should not blindly re-use registers that may belong to locals.
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0cc9125ead
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: be0d277 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: First pass at enabling lexical => local lowering.
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc:
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: Needs to take quite a bit of care, due to binder failover. This gets
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: us through the build and passing the sanity tests. Quite a bunch of
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: spectest fails, probably due to failures in the analysis.
22:36 dalek rakudo/lex2loc: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/be0d27729b
22:36 dalek perl6-bench: 7c5a914 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (4 files):
22:36 dalek perl6-bench: Add first Complex benchmark, rc-mandelbrot
22:36 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/7c5a914f09
22:41 ssutch is there any way to compute an argument passed to a use statement?
22:42 ssutch i need to compute a path that is passed to PB::Model::Generator
22:42 ssutch it works fine when the argument is a static string
22:46 ssutch i tried throwing that code in a BEGIN block but that didn't seem to do the trick
22:50 jnthn Try declaring a constant to hold it
22:53 ssutch ah, changing the variables into constants seems to have worked
22:53 ssutch thanks jnthn!
22:56 jnthn np
22:57 jnthn constants are computed at compile time.
22:59 ssutch is there a way to inspect a module to see what's in it?
22:59 ssutch eg python: dir(literally_anything)
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23:14 jnthn Depends what you mean; can always look at what's inside a package with Foo::Bar::.keys for example
23:18 ssutch cool
23:18 ssutch is there any way to re-export what is exported from a module you used?
23:19 ssutch for example module A; use B 'blah'; where B generates some classes; i would like to be able to access those via A like A::BlahClass.new
23:21 jnthn Well, can always do a BEGIN block and poke them into the package.
23:25 japhb_ 'perl6 --profile'
23:25 japhb_ gives me 'No profiling support'
23:25 japhb_ Anything I can do about this?
23:25 ssutch ah thanks jnthn i will try that out
23:25 jnthn japhb_: Write a profiler? :P
23:26 jnthn .oO( I don't think that was the desired answer... )
23:26 japhb_ jnthn: Ah, I was hoping the answer was "compile Rakudo with different options"
23:27 jnthn m: module B { class A { } }; module C { BEGIN { for B::.kv -> $sym, $obj { C::{$sym} := $obj } } }; say C::A
23:27 camelia rakudo-moar fc4943: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Error while compiling op callstatic (source text: "say C::A"): Object of type A in QAST::WVal, but not in SC␤»
23:27 jnthn um...
23:27 jnthn m: module B { class A { } }; module C { BEGIN { for B::.kv -> \sym, \obj { C::{$sym} := $obj } } }; say C::A
23:27 camelia rakudo-moar fc4943: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/idR1UjQoYZâ�¤Variable '$sym' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/idR1UjQoYZ:1â�¤------> [32mIN { for B::.kv -> \sym, \obj { C::{$sym[33mâ��[31m} := $obj } } }; say C::A[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤      â€¦Â»
23:27 jnthn m: module B { class A { } }; module C { BEGIN { for B::.kv -> \sym, \obj { C::{sym} := obj } } }; say C::A
23:27 camelia rakudo-moar fc4943: OUTPUT«(A)␤»
23:28 jnthn japhb_: Well, I use the VS profiler to profile MoarVM at C level, but we don't have MoarVM profiling support yet.
23:28 ssutch jnthn: that is pretty rad, thank you
23:29 jnthn japhb_: It does work on Parrot.
23:29 jnthn japhb_: It spits out something you can view in KCacheGrind
23:29 japhb_ jnthn: Understood.  Problem is, when I'm trying to figure out where r-m is slow ....
23:30 * japhb_ is trying to find the low hanging fruit for your "Extract microbenchmarks from rc-forest-fire" request
23:31 jnthn japhb_: Yeah, I know Moar supporting profiling is rather needed.
23:31 jnthn I'm starting to miss it quite a bit too :)
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23:32 jnthn Luckily, there's already a bytecode transformation framework to hand... :)
23:32 japhb_ heh
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23:36 ssutch so close https://gist.github.com/samuraisam/32cc2078f066847752c3 (?)
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23:58 lelf say 1...Inf timeouts nowadays. Is it expected?

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