Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-07-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:07 raiph are atroxaper and Mouq the same person or at least coordinating their Pod::To::* efforts?
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00:35 [Coke] jnthn++ lizmat++
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00:54 [Coke] r: join ', ', [\//] Any,    0, 1
00:54 camelia rakudo-parrot b014db: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
00:54 camelia ..rakudo-{jvm,moar} b014db: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤»
00:57 timotimo [Coke]: did you mean q[\//]?
00:57 timotimo oh, wait, what?
00:57 timotimo that's a triangle reduce %)
00:57 * timotimo looks at the clock
00:57 timotimo ayup. brain's already asleep-o-clock.
00:57 [Coke] look for "orelse" in the test suite.
00:59 timotimo http://down.me/  >:(
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01:01 [Coke] m: "\x[c]" ~~ m/^ <[\C[FORM FEED (FF)]]>/
01:01 camelia rakudo-moar b014db: ( no output )
01:01 [Coke] m: say "\x[c]" ~~ m/^ <[\C[FORM FEED (FF)]]>/
01:01 camelia rakudo-moar b014db: OUTPUT«「」␤␤»
01:04 timotimo m: say '\x[c]' ~~ m/^ \\ <[x]> '[' ~ ']' 'c' $/
01:04 camelia rakudo-moar b014db: OUTPUT«「\x[c]」␤␤»
01:16 psch [Coke]: i guess those two tests in reduce.t want something like &make-string in S32-array/delete.t
01:17 psch because (Any) in lists is gone, isn't it
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01:25 timotimo gone?
01:25 timotimo no, i don't think so
01:25 timotimo there's still a difference
01:25 timotimo m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a[1]:delete; say @a.perl; say @a[1]:exists; say @a[3]; say @a[3]:exists;
01:25 camelia rakudo-moar b014db: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, Any, 3)␤False␤(Any)␤False␤»
01:26 timotimo m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a[1] = Any; say @a.perl; say @a[1]:exists; say @a[3]; say @a[3]:exists;
01:26 camelia rakudo-moar b014db: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, Any, 3)␤True␤(Any)␤False␤»
01:26 psch m: my @a = 1, Any, 3; @a.list.say
01:26 camelia rakudo-moar b014db: OUTPUT«1 (Any) 3␤»
01:26 psch right
01:26 psch so does join do the wrong thing?
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01:27 timotimo i didn't even look what you're talking about %)
01:27 psch still the test [Coke] talked about
01:27 timotimo r: join ', ', [\//] Any,    0, 1
01:27 camelia rakudo-parrot b014db: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
01:27 camelia ..rakudo-{jvm,moar} b014db: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤»
01:27 timotimo that seems correct
01:27 psch the tests are skipped with "implemented orelse"
01:28 timotimo oh, i think i did something to orelse recently .. didn't i?
01:28 psch err, todo
01:28 psch no skip :)
01:28 timotimo or did i end up not doing anything?
01:30 psch i wouldn't know
01:30 psch m: say [\//] Any, 0, 1
01:30 camelia rakudo-moar b014db: OUTPUT«(Any) 0 0␤»
01:31 timotimo i've watched too many speedruns recently because now i can't read "skip" without ... thinking of that
01:32 psch but SGDQ is over for like two weeks already...
01:32 timotimo yes
01:32 timotimo i've watched a bunch live
01:32 timotimo and after that i've been watching bunches of vods
01:32 psch i've been rather selective about what i watch
01:32 timotimo got recommendations?
01:34 psch not really, actually
01:34 timotimo was all of it bad? ;)
01:34 psch i mostly watch the old sidescrollers
01:34 psch but those runs don't really change that much anymore
01:34 timotimo did you see the super metroid xray door glitch?
01:35 psch i don't even remember, actually
01:35 timotimo would you mind if i explained how the trick works?
01:35 psch no
01:36 timotimo wait, that means i can explain it, right? %)
01:36 timotimo damn english :D
01:36 psch i used to explain random people how q3 overbounces work; i understand
01:36 psch *to random people
01:36 psch so, yeah, you can explain
01:36 psch :9
01:36 timotimo i was expecting you'd prefer to see it first and then get the explanation
01:36 timotimo i didn't expect you'd have a hard time understanding
01:36 psch i'm not really passionate about it
01:36 timotimo aaw
01:37 timotimo so the basic thing that happens is you get out of bounds, fall down a whole bunch of screens and the game keeps interpreting its RAM contents as the level
01:37 timotimo so what ends up happening is you explore the out-of-bounds space and manipulate one specific piece of memory
01:38 timotimo and then ... i forgot how exactly it works, and i also forgot how the xray item is involved ... you end up in the planet self-destruct sequence at the very end
01:38 timotimo except there is no timer
01:38 psch :D
01:39 timotimo someone edited it into a very short video and uploaded it to youtube
01:39 psch "right, so it starts like this... and then there's a few steps, i don't know what they are... but anyway then this thing happens"
01:39 timotimo it'll do a massively better job than me %)
01:39 psch yeah, i think i'd have to watch it :)
01:39 timotimo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GAymJt6KPM - 6 minutes of video to see it
01:40 timotimo out-of-boundsness starts at about 30 seconds
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01:45 timotimo oh damn, i think the actual explanation of why xray is so broken is *before* the start of that video?!
01:45 timotimo no, it comes afterwards it seems
01:45 Mouq jnthn++ lizmat++
01:45 Mouq sorry for unexpectedly extended afk
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01:45 dalek roast: 0f90ebd | coke++ | integration/advent2013-day15.t:
01:45 dalek roast: skip all vms implicitly instead of explicitly
01:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0f90ebd204
01:45 dalek roast: 4bf731f | coke++ | integration/advent2013-day19.t:
01:45 dalek roast: unfudge-passes on moar, marked as #conc
01:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4bf731febd
01:45 dalek roast: d479879 | coke++ | S05-mass/named-chars.t:
01:45 dalek roast: Fix skip count
01:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d479879d5a
01:45 dalek roast: ba56bb9 | coke++ | S05-mass/named-chars.t:
01:45 dalek roast: Add RT reference #
01:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ba56bb9167
01:45 dalek roast: d2f0d4f | coke++ | S05-mass/named-chars.t:
01:45 dalek roast: skip -> todo where possible.
01:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d2f0d4f8f8
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01:47 psch timotimo: definitely interesting glitch
01:47 timotimo aye
01:47 psch the "the lost vikings" run was quite interesting too iirc, although not that glitchy
01:47 timotimo that was the one where the runner held both controllers at the same time, back-to-back?
01:48 psch i think there was more than one run with 1 player 2 controllers, but yeah
01:48 psch (the other was chip & dale, rescue rangers, says the schedule)
01:48 timotimo it's kinda sad that games nowadays don't do such dirty things with their memory any more that you can't just walk outside the screen and start overwriting game memory
01:50 timotimo i was kind of disappointed at the octodad: dadliest catch race: misskaddykins got one of those very typical "this has never happened before" moments that forced her to fall back about half a minute or so :(
01:50 Mouq raiph: We're not quite the same person, no :)
01:51 Mouq raiph: I haven't actually talked to him, but what he wants to do is one of the reasons I want to try to make Pod::Walker work
01:52 psch timotimo: i don't remember if i watched that, but "this has never happened before" did kind of come up a lot in the things i did watch; marathon as usual, i guess
01:52 timotimo yes :)
01:57 psch oh, also because (even horrendously off-topic) clear communication is important: i didn't mean to imply that i wouldn't understand the xray glitch, just that i understand the feeling of wanting to share cools one, hence my referal to q3 overbounces
01:57 * psch .oO( ...but that's probably enough. )
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01:58 timotimo ah
01:58 timotimo yes, clear communication *is* important. thank you!
01:58 timotimo what does overbouncing relate to?
01:59 timotimo i've seen videos of people "parkouring" with rocketjumps and the plasma gun and such
01:59 psch basically not accounting for the length of the collision trace vector when trying to determine if the player model is still falling
02:00 timotimo i don't think i've seen that yet
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02:02 psch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DZIkZBTh94
02:03 psch if i remember the code correctly it comes down to the engine assuming that if the trace starts above a surface and ends inside one, it assumes the previous extrapolation already determined that the player must have landed
02:04 psch which means the player is assumed to not have a z component in his impulse, which messes up denormalization
02:04 timotimo oooh
02:04 timotimo "clever" optimization :)
02:05 timotimo it's quite nice that the movement vector ends up being "healthy"
02:05 psch yeah, there's tons of entertaining videos around
02:06 timotimo i'm worried with the growing amount of games being developed using "big name" engines like unreal, source, unity ... they're not going to have as many "fun" bugs in (for example) their physich engines
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02:06 timotimo though physics engines can still get really glitchy even with "big name" engines given sufficiently pessimal collision geometries
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02:07 timotimo source engine 1 had this funny thing where you could run + jump backwards and become pretty darn fast :D
02:07 timotimo oh, it's already very late, i ought to go to bed
02:07 timotimo gnite!
02:08 psch heh, good night :)
02:08 timotimo oh, btw: #perl6-gaming :)
02:09 gtodd the reactive programming talk by jnthn at NL perl workshop made me think of applications of perl6 in games video computer vision ... "grepping" inside streams of  data 'n such
02:10 timotimo we'll have to see if moar can get sequences of supplies well optimized with - perhaps! - inlining and such
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03:33 [Sno] FROGGS_, lizmat - HL before you talk then I can disturb better ;)
03:34 [Sno] business hours: 7am-5pm :)
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04:10 shbng Hey, could anyone give a guesstimate as to when a full (meets current spec and passes spec-test), unoptimized, implementation of perl6 might be ready? (Hoping within the year but I don't know if that's realistic, We seem really close)
04:11 perigrin there are a number of assumptions in that that are common but full of fallacies
04:11 perigrin the biggest being that the "spec" is somehow static.
04:13 perigrin shbng: http://perl6.org/compilers/features probably is the best answer to your question
04:14 perigrin most of the bits there that are red are bits where the spec itself is still somewhat fluid (afaict)
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04:31 shbng Hey, could anyone give a guesstimate as to when a full (meets current spec and passes spec-test), unoptimized, implementation of perl6 might be ready? (Hoping within the year but I don't know if that's realistic, We seem really close)
04:31 shbng oops
04:31 shbng I realize the spec is rather fluid, actualy that is one of my biggest reasons for confusion. I have tried using perl6 again last week (after a 2-4 year break) and was happy to see it mostly usable with moarvm, but I am still having problems(mostly with threading) and am looking for a good time to retry. (so I guess, when do you think threads will be better implemented at least)
04:35 perigrin that I can't really say. perhaps leaving examples of the kinds of issues you're specifically having in a place (blog post maybe?) where the people working on it can look and provide feedback would help?
04:36 perigrin I know that jnthn recently (a few months ago) gave http://perltv.org/v/reactive-programming-in-perl-6
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06:13 sergot o/
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06:40 FROGGS_ there's a regression in r-m*: [...]languages/perl6/lib/Math/Model.pm
06:40 FROGGS_ ===SORRY!===
06:40 FROGGS_ When pre-compiling a module, its dependencies must be pre-compiled first.
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07:19 mathw good morning!
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07:34 FROGGS_ that's weird:
07:34 FROGGS_ [...]install/languages/perl6/lib/Math/Model.pm
07:34 FROGGS_ ===SORRY!===
07:34 FROGGS_ When pre-compiling a module, its dependencies must be pre-compiled first.
07:34 FROGGS_ Please pre-compile /home/froggs/dev/star/work-m/rakudo-star-2​014.06/install/languages/perl6/lib/SVG.pm
07:34 FROGGS_ but there is a SVG.moarvm in that path...
07:35 FROGGS_ lizmat: is it possible that one of your patches did that?
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07:43 lizmat FROGGS_: possibly
07:43 FROGGS_ lizmat: I'm not sure how to provide a simple test case though...
07:43 lizmat my patches didn't break any spectest, maybe we need a spectest  :-)
07:44 FROGGS_ I guess we have not a single test that tests precompilation
07:44 moritz lizmat: the problem is that precompilation isn't specced
07:44 moritz well, Test.pm6 is precompiled
07:44 FROGGS_ moritz: good point
07:44 moritz we need to start rakudo-specific tests
07:44 moritz but Test.pm6 is pretty simple, in terms of precompilation
07:45 moritz most importantly, it doesn't use any other precompiled modules
07:45 lizmat moritz: I started making them in t/spec/S11-modules
07:45 lizmat and t/spec/S22-package-format
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07:48 moritz lizmat: are those tests for packaging, or for precompilation?
07:48 lizmat in the future, both actually
07:48 FROGGS_ lizmat: the code here assumes that the :$from is always lowercase, that's not true for NQP for example: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​c55942ff8928e1830c20eb99ca0157606b3edf80
07:49 FROGGS_ that is not our problem here though
07:49 lizmat indeed not, as that behaviour didn't change in that patch
07:51 lizmat so you're saying it should always be :from<NQP>, or that it could also be :from<nqp> ?
07:54 FROGGS_ we are using NQP, and I use Perl5 in v5...
07:55 FROGGS_ the reason is that this field is about a language, not a compiler or so... and 'use openssl:from<c>' just looks wrong :o)
07:56 lizmat ok, so do you always want "Perl5" then?  and "NQP"
07:56 FROGGS_ I'm back in an hour or two...
07:56 lizmat or should "perl5" and "nQp" also be allowed
07:56 FROGGS_ lizmat: that is how the name of the language is written
07:57 lizmat ok
07:57 FROGGS_ Perl 6 is strict, so having case insensitive stuff feels weird
07:59 dalek rakudo/nom: 18bb089 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/File.pm:
07:59 dalek rakudo/nom: Also allow :from<NQP>
07:59 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/18bb089266
07:59 dalek rakudo/nom: 6fab386 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/File.pm:
07:59 dalek rakudo/nom: Only allow :from<Perl5 Perl6 NQP>
07:59 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6fab386820
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08:06 masak morning, #perl6
08:07 lizmat masak o/
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08:20 * masak is in a good mood today
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08:30 * jnthn grumbles about the warm weather and being awake and stuff
08:30 jnthn uh, morning :)
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08:31 nwc10 today, you're the anti-masak?
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08:33 jnthn I might improve with coffee :)
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08:37 nwc10 warm weather, warm coffee? That's illogical
08:38 nwc10 You need warm *tea* :-)
08:38 lizmat probably going to rain all day here  :-(
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08:49 masak it is warm, I'll grant you that.
08:52 Mouq lizmat: What about :from<JVM>?
08:52 Mouq or <Java> or whatever it is?
08:53 lizmat once we support that, we will add it  :-)
08:53 lizmat do we support that already then?
08:53 brrt morning jnthn :-)
08:54 brrt it's quite nice here, just 17 degrees :-)
08:57 jnthn o/ brrt
08:57 jnthn lizmat: Yes, there is some basic JVM interop support using :from
08:58 masak LiveScript looks crazy, but possibly in a good way.
08:58 masak or, let's say, LiveScript looks like what CoffeeScript *could* have been, if it were ambitious/imaginative enough.
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09:09 brrt livescript is?
09:10 * brrt can't bother to renember all javascript copmilers out by now
09:10 masak brrt: one of those compile-to-JavaScript languages.
09:10 masak brrt: http://livescript.net/
09:10 brrt i see
09:10 masak brrt: I believe au and vendethiel are both involved in it.
09:10 nwc10 wonderfully confusing
09:10 nwc10 LiveScript was the previous name for JavaScript
09:10 brrt i wish them well :-)
09:11 masak nwc10: oh! I thought you meant the language itself :) it sure has a lot of syntax.
09:11 masak nwc10: but yeah, the naming is deliberate.
09:11 masak as in, whoever chose that name knows about the naming history.
09:11 masak http://livescript.net/#name
09:12 dalek rakudo/nom: 3062bc1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/File.pm:
09:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Allow for :from<JVM>
09:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3062bc15e7
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09:20 dalek doc: 240dbdd | Mouq++ | / (14 files):
09:20 dalek doc: Call SUBTITLEs what they are
09:20 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/240dbdd41b
09:20 dalek doc: eb191dc | Mouq++ | lib/Language/classtut.pod:
09:20 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
09:20 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/eb191dc988
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09:41 masak in 10 days, Perl 6 turns 14.
09:47 Psyche^ joined #perl6
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09:52 brrt we ought to have a birthday cake, then
09:53 dmol joined #perl6
09:54 masak or maybe we should get up and throw a mug.
09:54 moritz we should throw mugnetic objects!
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10:07 masak moritz: ...close to copper wires, generating some electricity...
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10:46 colomon_ FROGGS_:
10:46 colomon_ ===SORRY!===
10:46 colomon_ When pre-compiling a module, its dependencies must be pre-compiled first.
10:46 colomon_ Please pre-compile /home/smoker/emmentaler/ins​talllib/lib/NativeCall.pm6
10:46 FROGGS_ colomon_: yes, I see that also in my r-m* test
10:46 FROGGS_ colomon_: I'm debugging it right now
10:46 colomon_ FROGGS_++
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10:48 FROGGS_ lizmat: btw, I agree now that a single CUR in an @*INC slot makes more sense...
10:49 FROGGS_ lizmat: we can have a CUR::Collection thingy in future, that has some rules to handle multiple CURs, especially when it has to pick an installation CUR
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10:52 FROGGS_ ahh, found it
10:52 FROGGS_ pretty sure at least
10:55 FROGGS_ yes, that seems to work
10:55 colomon_ … tell us ...
10:56 FROGGS_ https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/s​rc/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/File.pm#L51-L57
10:56 FROGGS_ line 52 is bogus, the {$root} is missing
10:56 FROGGS_ and we can reduce line 51 to 57 down to line 56
10:58 colomon_ Are you sure that's it?  smoker's rakudo build doesn't even have that patch...
10:59 FROGGS_ colomon_: on what commit is your rakudo?
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11:01 colomon_ FROGGS_: b014db2ebe0c5679b12c5bf709c98a9918f7f430
11:01 colomon_ smoke run started 5-6 hours ago, I haven't updated it since
11:04 dalek rakudo/nom: 3397a71 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/File.pm:
11:04 dalek rakudo/nom: fix lookup of potential comp unit candidates
11:04 dalek rakudo/nom:
11:04 dalek rakudo/nom: In case we have already seen a basename of a candidate we dropped
11:04 dalek rakudo/nom: additional candidates. Therefor we missed a precompiled cu when we
11:04 dalek rakudo/nom: already had seen a source file. Since the content of a directory
11:04 dalek rakudo/nom: is not ordered the result depended on the phase of the moon, mostly.
11:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3397a712af
11:05 FROGGS_ colomon_: you have that bit of code: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/b01​4db2ebe0c5679b12c5bf709c98a9918f7f430/src​/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/File.pm#L50-L56
11:07 FROGGS_ colomon_: feel free to rerun :o)
11:07 colomon_ FROGGS_: oh!  sorry, must have read github wrong.
11:07 FROGGS_ colomon_: no problem
11:08 colomon_ FROGGS_: I thought it was saying that was lizmat's patch from two hours ago.
11:08 colomon_ must actually have been the commit level for the entire file.
11:08 FROGGS_ IIRC the bad commit was 15 hours ago
11:16 lizmat FROGGS_++  (good catch)
11:20 lizmat that was definitely a refactor gone wrong
11:20 lizmat .oO( need more tests )
11:22 colomon_ FROGGS_++ # that did i
11:22 colomon_ *it
11:22 * colomon_ launches a full smoke test of the latest rakudo
11:27 lizmat do we actually have a plan for the case there is a compiled version of a module, but it is out of date?
11:27 lizmat wrt to the current executor?
11:27 FROGGS_ lizmat: the current state is that it explodes
11:28 FROGGS_ but the plan is to recompile it, in case we can write to the destination
11:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 9013d8f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/File.pm:
11:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Only lookup / once
11:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9013d8fb5f
11:28 FROGGS_ because a .moarvm file is a cache after all, and caches can get invalid and want updating
11:29 lizmat perhaps, but I would be against compiling a new version then
11:29 FROGGS_ with the CUR::inst we have enough information to do that actually
11:29 lizmat I'd rather see automatic re-compilation as part of the rakudo upgrade process
11:30 FROGGS_ well, such a cache can get only invalid when you recompile rakudo, or you upgrade a module using panda
11:30 FROGGS_ in either case there is an installation process running
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11:30 FROGGS_ so, would not hurt to hook into that
11:31 lizmat agree
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11:38 FROGGS_ but yeah, trigger re recompilation just because a .moarvm in your local lib folder is out of date would scare me as well
11:39 lizmat FROGGS_: what does the :$file paramater in CompUnitRepo.candidates mean ?
11:39 FROGGS_ lizmat: that we already know the path to a file to load
11:40 FROGGS_ like in require "/foo/bar/baz.pm"
11:40 lizmat but it is not used anywhere ?
11:40 FROGGS_ it is used
11:40 FROGGS_ in Perl6::Actions
11:41 lizmat aha, so we need to provide elsewhere as well, is what you're saying
11:41 FROGGS_ or better in: use Foo:file<blarg>
11:42 lizmat there is no string 'candidates' in Action ?
11:42 FROGGS_ no, it just calls load_module
11:42 FROGGS_ which calls $*W.load_module which calls CUR.load_module which calls .candidates on the curs
11:43 lizmat ok, get that now (I think)
11:43 lizmat which feels to me it's rather backward: load_module shouldn't call candidates
11:44 lizmat by the time we call load_module, we should already know what module to load
11:44 FROGGS_ but yeah, the file param comes from require/use Foo:file<bar>
11:44 FROGGS_ lizmat: no, 'use Foo' results in a call to load_module('Foo')
11:45 FROGGS_ how do you know the candidates then already?
11:45 FROGGS_ we are checking for candidates at the time somebody wants to load a module
11:46 lizmat in my view, load_module should be told which *file* to load
11:46 lizmat so it can be directly used for -require-
11:46 lizmat use Foo would first call candidates, find out the file name, then call load_module
11:47 FROGGS_ lizmat: it calls load_module because that is the API of the 'old' module loader
11:47 lizmat indeed
11:47 FROGGS_ and the new loader (CUR) just sits in front of it and provides the same API
11:47 FROGGS_ it was made pluggable
11:48 lizmat and now the old module loader is obsolete... :-)
11:48 FROGGS_ so it is just called load_module
11:48 FROGGS_ lizmat: no, we use it after we found a candidate
11:48 lizmat but is that a desirable situation?
11:48 FROGGS_ and pass it a :$file along
11:49 FROGGS_ lizmat: yes, because we need to be able to load modules
11:49 FROGGS_ you do not want to do that in the CUR
11:49 lizmat why not ?
11:49 FROGGS_ our module loader is written in nqp for one thing, and it delegates to NQP's ML or to MLs of a slang
11:50 FROGGS_ you can try to port it to Perl 6, but I'm not sure this will work out
11:50 FROGGS_ for example when we want to load BOOTSTRAP.pm, we need an NQP-level module loader to load it
11:51 FROGGS_ because we are not in the setting yet
11:51 lizmat I don't actually want to port Perls/ModuleLoader to Perl 6
11:51 FROGGS_ note that we are registering our CUR at the end of the setting
11:51 lizmat I want to port Actions/load_module to Perl 6
11:52 FROGGS_ what is Actions/load_module?
11:52 FROGGS_ also, we need to deserialize CUs when we load a precompiled module, that happens in $*W.load_module
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11:53 lizmat World/load_module I meant
11:53 FROGGS_ we need the pieces where they are in order to do that
11:54 FROGGS_ lizmat: I'm not sure you want to emit QAST in Perl 6 level code: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/​blob/nom/src/Perl6/World.nqp#L332
11:55 lizmat I'm thinking along these ways:
11:56 lizmat 1. CUR.candidates gives back one ore more CompUnit objects
11:56 lizmat 2. if there is only 1, we try to load that by calling .load on the object
11:57 lizmat 3. the CompUnit object should know which way to load itself (depending on pre-comp, source or external binary)
11:57 lizmat grrr... need to take our cat to the vet  :-(
11:57 lizmat bbl&
11:57 FROGGS_ :/
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12:17 Ven o/ #perl6
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12:24 masak ahoj, Ven.
12:37 atroxaper Hello, #perl6 !
12:37 yoleaux 7 Jul 2014 20:01Z <lue> atroxaper: assuming L<foo> is a synonym for L<doc:foo> (S26 doesn't say anything about this explicitly), I could see a case for L<C<foo>> being equivalent to L<doc:foo> rather than L<doc:C<foo>>. However, I'd also say L<C<foo>> is wrong, and you deserve whatever broken output results :) You really should do either C<L<foo>> or L<C<foo>|foo>
12:37 yoleaux 7 Jul 2014 21:12Z <Mouq> atroxaper: https://github.com/perl6/Pod-To-HTML/commi​t/f70c57d29a4301b104f115a659417f07f013a947
12:37 atroxaper Wow
12:40 atroxaper r: (Nil, 0)[0].defined
12:40 camelia rakudo-jvm 9013d8: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
12:40 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 9013d8: ( no output )
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12:41 atroxaper r: say (Nil, 0)[0].defined
12:41 masak lue: it feels rather obstinate for the parser to outlaw L<C<foo>> but allow L<C<foo>|foo>, IMHO.
12:42 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 9013d8: OUTPUT«True␤»
12:42 masak lue: some part of me goes "do what I mean, darnit!"
12:43 masak lue: though I should have started by saying I agree with you in principle: L<C<foo>> feels "wrong".
12:45 atroxaper I thinks I will want to write L<httpC<s>://github.C<com>> for visibility, but without necessity to write |https://github.com
12:45 carlin https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/285
12:47 masak atroxaper: a very good point. that won me over to allowing stuff like that.
12:47 masak atroxaper: and (by extension) to providing the service of auto-stripping formatting inside of an L<>
12:47 atroxaper masak: actually, now we have L<C<email>|email> in AUTHOR section
12:48 masak heh.
12:48 masak I wouldn't be surprised if auto-stripping logic were found along some other code path in the Pod parser.
12:48 FROGGS_ carlin: wikipedia says: The offset from UTC is given in the format ±[hh]:[mm], ±[hh][mm], or ±[hh]
12:48 FROGGS_ carlin: looks like we would not support ±[hh]
12:51 atroxaper masak: as I said a couple days ego, I'm writing system for writing Pod::To::{Something} modules. And I'm rewriting Pod::To::HTML to my system as proof :)
12:51 atroxaper masak: Next step will Pod::To::Markdown
12:52 masak atroxaper++
12:53 atroxaper masak: And maybe in future something like JavaDoc generator for Perl6. I feel a lack of documentation. And I'm Java developer and I can read java code with comments of developer any time. And can read html javadoc :)
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12:54 masak atroxaper: re JavaDoc-like generator: very, very yes.
12:54 masak especially if it's savvy to all the neatness of Pod <3
12:55 atroxaper masak: yes!
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12:55 atroxaper masak: I could not understand why there is no system to write comments under code in Perl 5.
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12:56 atroxaper And each developer should be fiction-writer and write some poem et the end of file)
12:58 masak I agree.
12:59 masak “Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” -- SICP
13:00 zengargoyle atroxaper: how much of Perl6 POD are you supporting?
13:02 zengargoyle awesomely pretty HTML of SICP: http://sarabander.github.io/sicp/
13:02 atroxaper zengargoyle: all of it. I mean all things that current grammar can parse.
13:04 masak zengargoyle: wow. I just started re-reading the original HTML, but this is much nicer to read. thank you!
13:05 zengargoyle http://sicpebook.wordpress.com/201​4/01/16/introducing-html5-version/  # this was the page about that version, mentions an EPUB version as well.
13:06 * zengargoyle thinks that's what Pod::To::HTML should look like :)
13:06 atroxaper zengargoyle:  Current Pod::To::HTML version has a hint that it would be nice to have some system that iterates on Pod and call some callbacks. I'm trying to make that system and make it comfortable. And make code of that callbackers more readable and mainteined.
13:09 [Coke] (callbacks) like a pod::sax ?
13:09 atroxaper zengargoyle: I will try to do so ;-)
13:10 atroxaper [Coke]: No. Actually, I don't know about pod:sax.
13:10 zengargoyle i tried to play with POD in code a couple of days ago and got --doc all confused.  think i was the :option<> type things or the = :more<options> continuation lines or something.
13:12 zengargoyle eventually decided to stick with simple stuff ala Perl5 style
13:14 atroxaper [Coke]: Imagine, that you write a bunch of functions (callbacks) and register it on Start, Finish and Content of any Pod's objects. Off course you have shared storage, array for result and some other data.
13:15 moritz sounds like inheriting from a visitor class to me
13:16 atroxaper [Coke]: And each callback will get all data that he want. Callback just need to write name of nessesary data in the header of sub
13:16 atroxaper moritz: yes. With features :)
13:17 atroxaper moritz: nothing rocket-science.
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13:19 atroxaper r: say (Nil, 0)[0].defined # btw, why?
13:19 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 9013d8: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:20 psch r: say (Nil, 0).elems
13:20 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 9013d8: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:21 psch good afternoon #perl6
13:22 atroxaper psch: hello)
13:22 atroxaper psch: hm...
13:22 jnthn I think Nil is no longer meant to flatten away. Once the spec had Nil as vanishing in List context, which Rakudo's list model relied on.
13:22 jnthn And in places still does.
13:22 jnthn It was a rather unfortunate/painful spec change.
13:24 jnthn Anyway, I think these days it wants .elems to be 2 there.
13:24 psch jnthn: yes, that's what S02#Nil says at least: "Nil [..] does not disappear in list context"
13:24 jnthn Yeah. It hadn't used to be that way.
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13:51 carlin FROGGS_: you're right, I've pushed another commit to that pull req
13:52 FROGGS_ carlin++
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 78e1fa3 | Carlin++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: [Temporal] accept colon in the timezone offset
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: This is valid in ISO 8601
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Times
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/78e1fa3cbc
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: db37b6f | Carlin++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: [Temporal] accept timezone offsets with only hours
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: specifying the minutes is optional
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: eg. 2014-07-09T01:50:05+12 is a valid ISO 8601 timestamp
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/db37b6fc4e
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 597f35f | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #285 from carbin/nom
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: [Temporal] accept colon in the timezone offset
13:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/597f35f079
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13:54 carlin thanks FROGGS_++
13:54 carlin I've discovered a new level of laziness
13:55 carlin rather than change my code, patch the compiler to make my code work
13:55 FROGGS_ carlin: :o)
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13:55 FROGGS_ carlin: exactly
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13:56 jnthn I love that kind of lazy :)
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13:57 psch that reminds me, was there anything missing still for tr/// jnthn?
13:58 psch (or anyone else, of course :)
13:58 jnthn psch: Is there a latest PR that needs somebody to review it?
13:59 * jnthn missed it if so
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13:59 psch it's the same PR ( https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/284 ), i've changed the p6store to bind/decont as per your latest review and moritz++ mentioned some debug output
14:00 psch i'm still not sure if the Bool{anon} is a good solution though, but i also don't feel like i can competently judge that :)
14:00 psch for Str.distance that is
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14:12 [Coke] atroxaper: I wasn't implying a specific pod::sax module, i was trying to imply a SAX like parser as opposed to a DOM style (from XML parsing land)
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14:14 atroxaper [Coke]: Oh... Yes. Something like that... And there is good name, I think! Can I get it? ;-)
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14:22 [Coke] you can write it, sure. :)
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14:39 hoelzro morning #perl6
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14:41 psch jnthn: maybe i missed some other feedback? i only remember the p6store leak, which i fixed
14:41 masak DOM-based parsing results in a tree structure in memory. SAX-based parsing results in a lazy list of "events".
14:42 masak there is also at least one hybrid between DOM and SAX.
14:43 timotimo i would strongly vote for a flag that you can use to prevent "automatic recompilation" if your compile process is more complicated than just "compile to bytecode", for example if you do lots of BEGIN blocks
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14:56 dalek roast: 8cc408b | Carlin++ | S32-temporal/DateTime.t:
14:56 dalek roast: [S32-temporal] add tests for more timezone offsets
14:56 dalek roast:
14:56 dalek roast: Per ISO 8601 timezone offsets can be colonated and minuteless
14:56 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8cc408b2b1
14:56 atroxaper masak: timotimo: I will show you when finish :-)
14:57 timotimo i'm looking forward to it :)
14:57 timotimo i remember my feeble attempts at making the pod stuff better; it only worked partially
15:01 atroxaper I'm getting Pod by current grammar. I just transform Pod to something. For example we still can't parse FormattingCode in Tables by grammar :(
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15:03 timotimo yes, it's a hard problem
15:03 timotimo i threw some doodled code tadziks way for parsing tables "simpler", but it wasn't good enough to get him to the "whole thing"
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15:06 atroxaper timotimo: yes... I've tried to understand the Grammar for improoving that (yes, i'm too presumptuous), but I couldn't...
15:06 timotimo i don't think that's presumptuous :)
15:06 atroxaper :)
15:07 raiph didn't someone conclude Pod table syntax requires multi-pass parsing?
15:08 timotimo it *can* be done in one pass
15:08 timotimo but it's ... quirky
15:08 masak why?
15:08 timotimo to implement, anyway
15:08 masak oh, because of things like comments above stuff?
15:09 masak prediction: it will be non-trivial to do it in one pass, but it will be worth it.
15:10 timotimo what does "comments above stuff" mean?
15:10 timotimo this is only about tables right now
15:11 masak I meant something like #| -- I *think* that's the syntax we landed on.
15:11 timotimo ah, that's something else
15:11 masak why do tables want to be two-pass? I don't quite see it.
15:12 timotimo formatting codes inside tables
15:12 timotimo it's not actually quite "two-pass"
15:12 timotimo well, actually i'm pretty sure i don't have a complete understanding of what "one-pass" vs "two-pass" entails
15:12 timotimo the problem is that each cell can span multiple rows and formatting codes inside those tables are allowed to span multiple rows inside that cell, too
15:13 timotimo and formatting codes can lead to cells being merged, which - i believe/suspect - should influence the other cells in those rows, too
15:14 masak ok, I see the challenge/issue now.
15:14 raiph http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2013-06-25#i_7247199 # timotimo discusses some table parsing challenges
15:16 masak raiph: gracias
15:16 timotimo raiph: the amount of helpfulness per line written to the channel that you have reached astounds me in a really good way
15:16 atroxaper There is annual conversation xD
15:16 timotimo :D
15:18 hoelzro how can one determine whether a type is Mu? $type eqv Mu doesn't seem to do the trick
15:18 timotimo "is" mu in what way?
15:18 hoelzro my $type = Mu;
15:18 timotimo ah
15:18 hoelzro like the Mu object
15:18 dalek rakudo-star-daily: e145f55 | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
15:18 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
15:18 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/e145f5534b
15:19 hoelzro well, type object
15:19 timotimo m: my Mu $foo = Mu; say $foo eqv Mu; say $foo.WHAT eqv Mu; say $foo === Mu;
15:19 camelia rakudo-moar 597f35: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding <anon>; expected 'Any' but got 'Mu'␤  in block  at /tmp/y7jLZIOxMn:1␤␤»
15:19 masak m: my $x = Mu; say $x.WHAT === Mu
15:19 camelia rakudo-moar 597f35: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding <anon>; expected 'Any' but got 'Mu'␤  in block  at /tmp/J8Mo6t1Jq5:1␤␤»
15:19 timotimo which little anon is that?
15:19 [Coke] m: my $x = Mu; say $x ~~ Mu
15:19 camelia rakudo-moar 597f35: OUTPUT«True␤»
15:19 [Coke] m: my $x = 234; say $x ~~ Mu
15:19 camelia rakudo-moar 597f35: OUTPUT«True␤»
15:19 timotimo [Coke]: that will give true for basically anything ever
15:20 masak [Coke]: ...but anything will give True on that ;)
15:20 [Coke] that's what i was just checking. :)
15:20 psch m: my Mu $x; $x.^mro.elems.say # hackish
15:20 camelia rakudo-moar 597f35: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:20 hoelzro so far, $type.WHERE == Mu.WHERE works
15:20 hoelzro but it's dodgy
15:20 timotimo i realize i'm kind of a topic-nomad ... i go from topic to topic and leave behind unresolved issues and partial implementations of things :S
15:20 [Coke] m: my $x = Mu; say WHAT($x)
15:20 camelia rakudo-moar 597f35: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
15:20 timotimo hoelzro: at least Mu never ought to move :)
15:20 hoelzro =)
15:20 [Coke] since I know that jnthn just fixed that ^^
15:24 hoelzro is 'Mu eqv Any' throwing an exception a bug? or should I not expect so much from Mu?
15:24 raiph http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-08-03 # I'd love to hear masak's take on the Pod tables discussion and solution and problem gists from this day
15:28 [Coke] here's a not an autopun for masak: "We all have two lives. The second begins when you realize we have only one."
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15:28 dalek perl6-roast-data: 8ac5962 | coke++ | / (6 files):
15:28 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
15:28 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/8ac59628a4
15:29 timotimo bbl
15:37 hoelzro if one wanted to do something with an accessor's new value after it's been called, I'm guessing one would have to implement the accessor as 'is rw' and return some sort of container that does something special when storing a value?
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15:38 raiph https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/pod-table # most recent attempt at Pod table parsing?
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15:42 dalek roast: da034fd | Carlin++ | S32-temporal/DateTime.t:
15:42 dalek roast: [S32-temporal] negative offsets and +/-00 offsets
15:42 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/da034fdbc3
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16:51 hoelzro what's the easiest way in NQP to figure out what type an object is?
16:52 jnthn $obj.HOW.name($obj)
16:53 hoelzro oh perfect
16:53 hoelzro thanks jnthn
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17:19 FROGGS ahh, latest perl6_pass_rates.csv looks really really good :o)
17:19 colomon_ FROGGS: also http://host07.perl6.com:8080/report
17:19 FROGGS hoelzro: and when you want to check that something is of certain type you do: nqp::istype($x, $type)
17:20 FROGGS colomon_: yeah
17:20 FROGGS though I should perhaps check why Inline is broken
17:20 colomon_ FROGGS++
17:27 carlin FROGGS++ # merging all my pull requests
17:27 FROGGS carlin: thanks for the PR :o)
17:27 FROGGS and carlin++ for contributing!
17:27 [Coke] yay, now to fudge/RT the remaining rakudo issues.
17:28 PerlJam y
17:36 rurban FROGGS: Is rakudo-p fixed now?
17:36 FROGGS rurban: sort of
17:36 rurban I'll check
17:37 FROGGS rurban: it is relying on an optimization, and this happens again
17:37 rurban we need more realistic benchmarks for our new improvements. I doubt that we only got 2%
17:37 FROGGS some blocks need to be inlined, otherwise very strange things happen
17:37 rurban yes, I saw :)
17:38 FROGGS would be awesome if you guys achieve more than 2%, aye :o)
17:43 rurban sure. I'm sceptical, but we only sped up method calls, last time with the WBs we did vtable and method calls
17:44 rurban and we still have to check the arity at run-time. bad specs unfortunately
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17:46 ren1us is there any sort of profiler system in place, or at the very least, something that can help me track down where i've apparently got a massive memory leak?
17:47 ren1us (honestly i suspect the memory leak is a bug in moar's garbage collector, rather than my code)
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17:53 jnthn It's extremely unlikley to be a GC bug; it'll only keep objects alive if they're actually referenced.
17:53 jnthn Could be some non-gc-managed resource leaking.
17:55 ren1us it's very weird... i would suspect it to be my code if the memory usage popped down to something reasonable after my main recursive stuff hit the base case, but it doesn't.  it just constantly increases over time
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17:57 jnthn Either way, there's not some good profiling support yet.
17:57 ren1us unfortunate.  i'll try running through parrot just to see what happens.
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17:58 jnthn dinner; bbiab
17:58 ren1us because there's really no reason for moar to be getting up to about 4.5 gigs of memory in half an hour
18:00 jnthn Well, depends what you're doing, but no, that does sound like a leak of some kind. I just suspect it'll turn out not to be the GC. The last time I fixed leaks, they were of stuff allocated along the way.
18:00 jnthn (At C level)
18:00 jnthn dinner; bbiab
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18:11 ren1us wow what's with me and breaking literally everything.  hooray for a segfault.
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18:31 TimToady cool, I get bubble+cryosurgery in half an hour for a detached retina
18:31 TimToady may or may not be visually active during that time...we'll see
18:31 ren1us that sounds really unpleasant and painful.  best of luck, get better soon, etc etc
18:31 TimToady I get to sit in a funny position for five days to keep the bubble in the right place...
18:31 nwc10 you keep living in interesting times :-(
18:32 nwc10 I hope it goes well
18:32 TimToady well, in other times I'd've been dead by now several ways :)
18:32 TimToady so I'll take interesting :)
18:32 TimToady afk &
18:32 jnthn TimToady: Hope all goes as well as possible. Take care.
18:33 colomon_ TimToady: best wishes!
18:33 [Coke] interesting++
18:34 retupmoca TimToady: good luck, I hope it goes well
18:35 [Coke] best wishes.
18:44 hoelzro FROGGS: oh, thanks!  that's good to know
18:50 timotimo best wishes from me, too! that does sound like an amazing feat
18:51 * [Coke] plays the latest guardians of the galaxy trailer on loop.
18:51 timotimo oh, so there's a gas bubble inside the eye where the "eye fluid" also is?
18:51 timotimo i mean: a gas bubble is put there
18:52 timotimo five days is a long time to keep your head in a particular position ...
18:56 woolfy Oh man, detached retina...  interesting times and all are fun, but this is no fun.  Best wishes.  TimToady++
18:57 * PerlJam seems to recall that this is not the first time TimToady has had a detached retina.  :-(
18:58 timotimo is there something that predisposes you to get that?
19:00 lizmat having had it before?   in any case, TimToady++ for hanging in there and not giving up on us
19:00 FROGGS what the...
19:00 FROGGS TimToady: I wish you all the best!
19:01 hoelzro TimToady: godo luck!
19:01 hoelzro *good
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19:13 timotimo i wonder how some surgeries are ... "discovered"
19:13 bluescreen100 joined #perl6
19:13 PerlJam After trying it out on cadavers for a while, eventually someone says, "Now let's try it on a live one!"
19:14 Mouq TimToady++
19:18 masak TimToady: best wishes.
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19:22 Mouq m: class A { method @.[*@abcd] { say "ok @abcd[]" } }; say A.postcircumfix:<[ ]>(42) # can we have this sugar for .at_pos instead? same with %.{...}
19:22 camelia rakudo-moar 597f35: OUTPUT«ok 42␤True␤»
19:23 lue .tell atroxaper just so you know, I've already followed that hint in Pod::To::HTML (here it is: https://github.com/lue/pod-walker), and AFAIK Mouq is using it to reimplement Pod::To::HTML too. I'll be interested in seeing what your solution to that hint is! :)
19:23 yoleaux lue: I'll pass your message to atroxaper.
19:24 Mouq lue: So, on that topic, what do you think of making Pod::To::HTML actually act like a class instead of a module? and maybe having Pod::Walker be a role it inherits?
19:24 lue Mouq: perhaps, I couldn't say off-hand what route would be best.
19:26 Mouq lue: Ok, I'll try it out. Pod::To::HTML uses a lot of global variables for each document, it seems like some sort of encapsulation somewhere would be for the best
19:27 lue Sounds good. :)
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19:37 * Mouq spectests @.() -> at_pos(), %.() -> at_key()
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19:48 timotimo "Over time the vitreous changes, shrinking and developing pockets of liquefaction, similar to the way a gelatin dessert shrinks, or detaches, from the edge of a pan over time." - this is a wonderful simile
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19:52 FROGGS timotimo: in case you're working on the weekly: jnthn (and me) have tracked down the perl6-p borkage that introduced 1800 spectest fails
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom: 548a9b8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/File.pm:
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom: Add :no-precomp flag
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom: This should allow for searches for a non-precompiled version of a module.
19:55 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/548a9b8f3f
19:56 dalek roast: 3aa17a3 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S22-package-format/local (3 files):
19:56 dalek roast: Some more CURL::File tests
19:56 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3aa17a3953
20:06 Mouq Hmm... My spectest turns up fails for S32-list/pick.t and S32-temporal/local.t
20:07 timotimo i still didn't have an opportunity today, but i think i'll be able to do it in the next 2h
20:07 revdiablo joined #perl6
20:14 japhb joined #perl6
20:15 Mouq (i may just have a stale Moar, but the dog is insisting I take her for a walk before I find out)
20:25 itz_ Brazil is still in with a chance!
20:25 itz_ :)
20:26 carlin that S32-list/pick failure is impressive
20:26 carlin *** Error in `/home/carlin/rakudo/install/bin/moar': free(): invalid size: 0x00000000088017e0 ***
20:28 FROGGS scary, aye
20:38 anaeem1 joined #perl6
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20:39 Alula_ joined #perl6
20:40 Mouq Oh? So it's not just me :)
20:41 kurahaupo joined #perl6
20:43 carlin pick.t is giving me fireworks, it's very spectacular
20:43 dalek rakudo/nom: fda3461 | Mouq++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
20:43 dalek rakudo/nom: Use at_{pos,key} for method {@,%}.()
20:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fda34618fa
20:45 Mouq Oh, wait
20:46 * timotimo waits
20:46 Mouq perl6 -e'class A { method %.(*@abcd) { say "called" } }; say A.{42, 43}'
20:46 Mouq called
20:46 Mouq called
20:46 Mouq (should only be called once, reverting my commit)
20:46 jnthn uh, no
20:47 jnthn at_key is called once per key to access
20:47 kurahaupo joined #perl6
20:47 * vendethiel thinks it's kinda confusing it's not postcircumfix:<{ }> :o)
20:48 vendethiel well, there's <> to take into account I guess
20:48 jnthn That's a sub, not a method, like all the other operator-y things. :)
20:48 jnthn (used to be a method, but consistency and optimizability won over)
20:48 vendethiel right-o
20:48 vendethiel yeah, I think somebody already told me 'bout that, subs for inlining
20:49 Mouq jnthn: Yes, so having %.() call at_key creates the wrong behaviour
20:50 jnthn Mouq: Bit tied up with $dayjob so didn't read the commit, but I'd gueesed you were desugaring %.() to at_pos()
20:50 jnthn uh, at_key
20:51 dalek rakudo/nom: 41574ab | Mouq++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
20:51 dalek rakudo/nom: Revert "Use at_{pos,key} for method {@,%}.()"
20:51 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:51 dalek rakudo/nom: This reverts commit fda34618fa69e331bfc1ea44785cf4c40843b193.
20:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/41574ab1c0
20:51 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:52 Mouq "@.[]" really implies the whole postcircumfix, rather than just a single-element access method
20:53 jnthn OK, well...maybe they don't make sense to exist any more, then.
20:54 Mouq Is 'method postcircumfix:<[ ]>' never coming back?
20:54 FROGGS kinda unlikely I guess
20:54 jnthn I don't believe so.
20:55 jnthn If you really wanted to do custom slicing then you'd need to write a sub
20:55 jnthn tbh, though, I really do not think the sugar is worth it.
20:55 jnthn It's quite a special case.
20:56 Mouq I only just realized that you can only define new postcircumfixes in a sub
20:56 Mouq But what about the inconsistency of 'method postcircumfix:<( )>'
20:58 * zengargoyle spent a few hours trying to get a class attribute to «handle postcircumfix<{ }>» something when it seems it should have been «handle <at_key»
20:58 jnthn Mouq: I think we should rename that INVOKE or something
20:58 jnthn Or jsut invoke
20:59 masak +1
21:11 moritz same capitalization as at_key, IMHO
21:11 silug joined #perl6
21:12 timotimo zengargoyle: i think you need to "does Associative"
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21:28 zengargoyle timotimo: tried that on the class at least.  rakudo/src/core/Associative.pm role has a single method of().
21:31 timotimo oh
21:31 timotimo oops
21:32 timotimo yeah, that's a different kind of thing; i think that's the role we use to apply type restraints to hashes
21:32 zengargoyle i really thought: class A does Associative { has SetHash $!h handles Associative = SetHash.new } # would have DWIMd
21:33 zengargoyle and grepping the specs for clues didn't help much. :P
21:37 timotimo handles is only for methods ;(
21:39 zengargoyle is that NYI?  spec has things like: has $.payload handles <Str Numeric>;
21:39 zengargoyle and: has $.fur is rw handles Groomable;
21:41 anaeem1 joined #perl6
21:43 zengargoyle i wanted to do something like: my Flags $flags = Flags.new(one=>0x1,two=>0x2,three=>0x4); $flags<one>=True; $flags<three>=True; # $flags.Int == 5
21:44 zengargoyle where the keys are restricted to the enum of valid flags.
21:45 psch doesn't an enum on its own do that already?
21:46 zengargoyle enum is immutable.
21:46 zengargoyle was thinking: class Flags { has EnumMap $!em; has SetHash $!sh; # enough logic to do stuff }
21:47 psch oh
21:47 psch i guess the accessors could get some logic to restrict, but that's clunky
21:47 zengargoyle where EnumMap holds keys=>values; and SetHash holds the desired subset of available flags.
21:48 psch https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/m​aster/integration/advent2009-day11.t # here's handles examples, btw
21:48 zengargoyle but wanted $flags to behave just like a SetHash would, $flags.keys, etc.
21:49 psch so each kv from the SetHash should be one kv from the enum?
21:49 * retupmoca discovers trello: https://trello.com/b/8vpgVKd​K/retupmoca-s-perl-6-modules
21:49 psch the use is something like "which flags are of the available flags are set for this instance" i figure
21:49 zengargoyle SetHash hides the values, all set keys are True, keys set to False are deleted.
21:50 dayangkun joined #perl6
21:51 zengargoyle so it's like: em = (one=>1,two=>2,three=>4), sh = (<one four>)
21:51 zengargoyle 'tho underneath it may be sh = (one=>true_value,four=>something_true)
21:52 zengargoyle if you ask $sh<one> you'll only get True back.
21:52 Akagi201 joined #perl6
21:53 zengargoyle i finally gave up because i was only going to support *one* of the available flags. :P
21:54 psch i don't think i fully understand what you're trying to do :)
21:54 psch (not to mention i might not even be able to help)
21:54 zengargoyle named bitflags.
21:54 dayangkun_ joined #perl6
21:55 psch on the surface exporting the enum and having an &addflags(*@) method that checks if the supplied arguments are in the enum and throws otherwise seems enough to me
21:55 psch although i think not-from-the-enum barewords would throw on their own in the mainline anyway
21:55 psch which makes it not really desireable...
21:56 psch where "it" is "this way of building it"
21:56 zengargoyle well yeah, but not as pretty as. :P
21:56 psch right :)
21:56 psch i guess you could build an accessor for $!sh that checks keys that are to be added for some kind of equality with the enum keys
21:57 psch which might be Stringy equality or something else
21:57 zengargoyle yeah, i had the basics working, just not the make it look like a plain SetHash parts.
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22:42 grondilu r: constant primes = grep &is-primes, 2 .. *;  # this times out locally on Moar
22:42 camelia rakudo-jvm 41574a: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
22:42 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 41574a: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    &is-primes used at line 1. Did you mean '&is-prime'?â�¤â�¤Â»
22:42 grondilu r: constant primes = grep &is-primes, 2 .. *;  say primes[^10] # but this does not
22:42 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 41574a: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    &is-primes used at line 1. Did you mean '&is-prime'?â�¤â�¤Â»
22:42 grondilu r: constant primes = grep &is-prime, 2 .. *;  say primes[^10] # but this does not
22:42 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 41574a: OUTPUT«2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29␤»
22:43 grondilu r: constant primes = grep &is-prime, 2 .. *;
22:43 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 41574a: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
22:43 grondilu see?
22:44 grondilu r: constant integers = 1 .. *;
22:44 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 41574a: ( no output )
22:44 grondilu r: constant even-numbers = grep * %% 2, 1 .. *;
22:45 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 41574a: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
22:45 grondilu r: constant even-numbers = grep * %% 2, 1 .. *; say even-numbers[^10]
22:45 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 41574a: OUTPUT«2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20␤»
22:46 Mouq r: constant primes = grep &is-prime, 2 .. *; 1
22:46 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 41574a: ( no output )
22:47 grondilu it's like the compiler is bored of having nothing to do so it decides to evaluate the lazy list completely :)
22:48 Mouq lol
22:49 pdcawley joined #perl6
22:50 psch m: constant n = 1 .. Inf # apparently the compiler feels teased by the grep
22:50 camelia rakudo-moar 41574a: ( no output )
22:51 psch m: constant n = 1 .. * # ... i think?
22:51 camelia rakudo-moar 41574a: ( no output )
22:53 Akagi201 joined #perl6
22:53 grondilu r: constant even-numbers = grep * %% 2, 1 .. *; say even-numbers.elems
22:54 grondilu well it can not know the grep will return an infinite number of elements, I guess
22:54 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 41574a: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
22:55 grondilu so I'm actually not sure about the lazyness of a constant defined with grep.  I supposed I should read the spec about these stuff.
23:38 jnthn Yay. Got a bunch of stuff off my plate and tomorrow I can spend all day on Perl 6 things. \o/
23:42 psch jnthn++ # finish his plate for good weather
23:42 psch eh, *finishing
23:43 psch as in, weather suitable for butterflies :)
23:50 * psch is still trying to find places where the outer chain could break...
23:50 psch but no more today i think
23:50 xragnar joined #perl6
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23:52 rurban1 joined #perl6
23:54 Akagi201 joined #perl6
23:55 psch g'night o/

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