Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-07-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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04:07 atroxaper Hello, #perl6 !
04:07 yoleaux 10 Jul 2014 21:09Z <Mouq> atroxaper: Do you expect Pod::SAX to supercede the current Pod::To::HTML? I ask simply because I don't want to be doing work on something else when someone is working on a better solution. Right now my focus with Pod::To::HTML is readibility and encapsulation/thread safety. We should co-ordinate efforts :)
04:13 atroxaper .tell Mouq Actually I hope my solution would be better than current Pod::To::HTML. I would like you to look at my Pod::SAX and current Pod::SAX::Goes::HTML at https://github.com/atroxaper/Pod-SAX
04:13 yoleaux atroxaper: I'll pass your message to Mouq.
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06:47 sergot o/
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07:00 atroxaper sergot: o/
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07:23 sergot m: "a".encode('iso-8859-1');
07:23 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: ( no output )
07:23 sergot m: "a".encode('iso-8859-2');
07:23 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«Unknown string encoding: 'iso-8859-2'␤  in method encode at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:6528␤  in block  at /tmp/5p7E_sqsej:1␤␤»
07:24 sergot Why do we not have iso-8859-2? :)
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08:31 zengargoyle #perl6 should start taking on http://www.reddit.com/r/dailyprogrammer/ challenges...
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09:09 masak_grr good antenoon, #perl6
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09:10 atroxaper masak_grr: hello!
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09:11 FROGGS hello Guest29091, welcome to #perl6 :P
09:12 masak_grr thank you. so, when will Perl6 be released?
09:12 atroxaper masak_grr: xDD
09:12 nwc10 when it's ready. And not before, in case people get food poisoning.
09:12 masak_grr I mean, when is it good enough so that people like me who just do drive-by questions on a channel and then never show up again would want to use it?
09:13 masak_grr no, I mean, when is it ready for *production*? that rigorously defined term that's the same for everybody and that I obviously don't need to define any further?
09:13 masak_grr when are you going to make an actual release?
09:17 jack_rabbit whenever you deem it stable enough to use in production.
09:17 jack_rabbit I use it sometimes. It's fun.
09:18 jack_rabbit Let your business people do their "risk management and mitigation"
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09:25 zengargoyle a.k.a. "get rid of that crackpot!"
09:27 masak_grr jack_rabbit: nonono, I don't mean a subjective notion of "ready for production". I mean the obvious *objective* notion. you know, when it's ready.
09:27 masak_grr the point (if it ever comes) where the Perl6 peeps step back and say "OK, we're done. it's ready now" -- and they are *right*, for once.
09:28 masak_grr I've been waiting for 27 years for this. in the meantime, I use Ruby, which is practically Perl 6 anyway.
09:29 nwc10 apart from the scoping rules?
09:30 masak_grr Ruby operates under the principle of "least surprise", which means that its scoping rules are, by definition, perfect.
09:31 masak ok. _grr suffix gone. I'll stop trolling now. ;)
09:34 jack_rabbit I guess I'd defer to nwc10's "when it's ready. And not before, in case people get food poisoning."
09:34 masak (my actual views on the matter are the same as always. there's important work to do, and jnthn++ FROGGS++ timotimo++ moritz++ sergot++ japhb++ colomon++ [Coke]++ lizmat++ woolfy++ others++ for doing it. much remains. when we get macros and slangs in place, we'll have something really nice.)
09:34 masak I'm sure I missed more than I included. TimToady++, for example.
09:34 masak tadzik++
09:35 masak brrt++
09:35 atroxaper If my code has 'say @arr.perl' then all works well. If 'say @arr' or without say, then code 139 on Rukudo Parrot...
09:36 nwc10 r: my @arr = <like this>; say @arr
09:36 camelia rakudo-jvm 2c957f: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
09:36 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 2c957f: OUTPUT«like this␤»
09:37 atroxaper No. I mean in case of my code)
09:37 nwc10 mmm, you've cut it down as far as it will go?
09:37 nwc10 r: 1
09:37 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 2c957f: ( no output )
09:37 nwc10 r: say "Hi"
09:37 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 2c957f: OUTPUT«Hi␤»
09:37 nwc10 r: my @arr = <like this>;
09:37 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 2c957f: ( no output )
09:38 nwc10 r: my @arr = <like this>; say @arr
09:38 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 2c957f: OUTPUT«like this␤»
09:38 nwc10 JVM is now warm?
09:40 jack_rabbit :) looks like it.
09:41 jack_rabbit it's amazing how much of a difference a warm VM makes.
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09:53 lizmat .oO( happiness is a warm VM )
09:55 jack_rabbit :)
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10:11 dalek rakudo/nom: 8a0a8f9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Supply.pm:
10:11 dalek rakudo/nom: Seems removing the paused functionality regresses
10:11 dalek rakudo/nom:
10:11 dalek rakudo/nom: Specifically the classify/categorize tests.  Guess I need to fix those first
10:11 dalek rakudo/nom: before removing this functionality.  On the other hand, I don't really see
10:11 dalek rakudo/nom: how I can do that just yet.  So reverting.
10:11 dalek rakudo/nom:
10:11 dalek rakudo/nom: This reverts commit 592a2edf4c4bf6196a73715382a95999ebeafced.
10:11 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8a0a8f99b7
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10:21 zengargoyle can you get a junction to unjunction? like getting: max 1, 2|3, 2; to be 3 and not any(2,3)
10:22 * woolfy1 never did anything for Perl 6 other than marketing and some money, I never uploaded a patch or whatever...
10:22 * woolfy1 wrote a couple of lines of code of Perl 6 Rakudo...  but that was at the NQP-course by jnthn in Frankfurt last year...
10:23 woolfy1 masak++ for trolling though
10:25 zengargoyle or turning [1|2, 2] into [1,2],[2,2]
10:27 timotimo zengargoyle: if you want that, you shouldn't be using junctions
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10:28 zengargoyle was afraid of that. :(  trying to do Ace => 1|11
10:31 lizmat technically, it would be trivial to create a method that would return all the constituent values of a Junction
10:31 timotimo yes
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom: 67ad387 | (Andrew Egeler)++ | src/core/SupplyOperations.pm:
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Attempt to fix SupplyOperation wrongness (take 2)
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom:
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Each source_tap now only passes messages on to that one client tap, not
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom: all of them.
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/67ad387425
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom: 87dcd11 | lizmat++ | src/core/SupplyOperations.pm:
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #287 from retupmoca/nom
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom:
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Attempt to fix SupplyOperation wrongness (take 2)
10:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/87dcd11386
10:31 timotimo zengargoyle: what does your use case look like in a more big-picture way?
10:33 zengargoyle http://www.reddit.com/r/dailyprogrammer/comments/29zut0/772014_challenge_170_easy_blackjack_checker/
10:33 zengargoyle Alice => 1|11, 10
10:34 masak woolfy1: I won't let you undersell your contribution just because it's on the community side of things. woolfy++!
10:34 zengargoyle Bob => 3, 6, 7
10:34 zengargoyle max == 21
10:35 zengargoyle blah, blah, blah
10:35 zengargoyle find the max hand <=21, then find hands that have total==max to find winners.
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10:37 timotimo i don't know if this explanation will help you, but basically passing a junction as a parameter to any sub or method that is restricted Any (or more specific) will cause that sub or method to be called once for each value in the junction and the result values will be collected back into a junction
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10:52 masak (and Any is the default for parameters)
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11:09 timotimo that's right. except for pointy blocks iirc
11:09 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: ( no output )
11:09 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature.say
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«:($a)␤»
11:09 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature.perl.say
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«:($a)␤»
11:09 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature.parameters[0].perl.say
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«No such method 'parameters' for invocant of type 'Signature'␤  in block  at /tmp/SXmZKvtDE0:1␤␤»
11:09 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature.arguments[0].perl.say
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«No such method 'arguments' for invocant of type 'Signature'␤  in block  at /tmp/11_NFrcR92:1␤␤»
11:10 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature.^methods.say
11:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«<anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> arity count params returns ACCEPTS perl␤»
11:10 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature.params[0].perl.say
11:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«$a␤»
11:10 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature.params[0].^methods.say
11:10 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«<anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> name constraint_list constraints type named named_names positional slurpy optional parcel capture rw copy readonly invocant default type_captures sub_signature ACCEPTS perl␤»
11:11 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature.params[0].constraint_list.perl.say
11:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«()␤»
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11:11 timotimo m: (-> $a { }).signature.params[0].constraints.perl.say
11:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«all()␤»
11:11 timotimo ...
11:11 timotimo how do i even ...
11:11 timotimo m: (-> Any $a { }).signature.perl.say
11:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«:(Any $a)␤»
11:11 timotimo m: (-> Mu $a { }).signature.perl.say
11:12 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«:($a)␤»
11:12 timotimo i suppose there we go.
11:12 timotimo m: (-> $a { say "executed" }(1|2))
11:12 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«executed␤»
11:12 timotimo m: (-> Any $a { say "executed" }(1|2))
11:12 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«executed␤executed␤»
11:12 timotimo m: (*.say)(1|2)
11:12 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«any(1, 2)␤»
11:12 timotimo WhateverCode takes Mu, too
11:13 timotimo hm, actually ...
11:13 timotimo m: (* + 5)(1|2).say
11:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«any(6, 7)␤»
11:13 timotimo m: (* + 5).signature.say
11:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: ( no output )
11:14 timotimo m: my Mu &c = (* + 5); &c.signature.say
11:14 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '&c'; expected 'Callable[Mu]' but got 'WhateverCode'␤  in block  at /tmp/dLIEGk7q30:1␤␤»
11:14 timotimo m: my &c = (* + 5); &c.signature.say
11:14 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«:($whatevercode_arg_1 is parcel)␤»
11:14 timotimo that's Mu, too
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11:17 masak if I want to augment a class and *override* a method, how do I avoid the error message "Package 'X' already has a Method 'y' (did you mean to declare a multi-method?)" ?
11:17 Ven masak: does :P ?
11:17 Ven m: class A { method foo { 1 } }; A does role { method foo { 2 } }; say A.new.foo
11:17 timotimo masak: i think you can put a new proto in
11:17 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«Cannot use 'does' operator with a type object.␤  in sub infix:<does> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16985␤  in block  at /tmp/WnesD667Q4:1␤␤»
11:17 Ven :(
11:18 zengargoyle isn't there some sort of 'supercedes' thing?
11:19 masak zengargoyle: yes, but that replaces the whole class. I only want to replace a method.
11:19 masak suggestion: 'augment' complaining about this is a bug. (it wasn't always thus, and it was nicer when the error didn't happen)
11:19 Ven you want to monkey patch the class, basically.
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11:19 masak Ven: yes, that's what 'augment' and MONKEY_TYPING are for.
11:19 Ven can you not use augment w/o monkey typing ?
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11:19 Ven I guess
11:20 timotimo i don't think you can - or ought to be allowed to
11:20 zengargoyle can you just wrap the method?
11:20 masak no, you can't.
11:20 timotimo replacing a class in a lexical context is another thing, though
11:20 Ven m: augment Str {} # testing error msg
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Type 'Str' is not declared. Did you mean 'str'?�at /tmp/p4HHtCKZRW:1�------> [32maugment Str [33m�[31m{} # testing error msg[0m�Malformed augment�at /tmp/p4HHtCKZRW:1�------> [32maugment Str [33m�[31m{}…»
11:20 masak zengargoyle: interesting suggestion -- I'll try.
11:20 Ven oh?
11:20 timotimo oh, whoopsie
11:21 timotimo the parser runs into a fail with Str and assumes the fail was due to Str not existing ...
11:21 timotimo is what i think it did
11:21 Ven m: augment class Str {} # testing error msg
11:21 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/I_esLQB7U1â�¤augment not allowed without 'use MONKEY_TYPING'â�¤at /tmp/I_esLQB7U1:1â�¤------> [32maugment class Str [33mâ��[31m{} # testing error msg[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        scoped …»
11:21 Ven timotimo: think so
11:21 timotimo er ... huh?
11:21 Ven huh huh ?
11:22 timotimo why is the error message so different if there's a "class" in the middle?
11:22 Ven because of what you said ?
11:22 timotimo oh?
11:22 timotimo but should it even try to match a <typo_typename> there?
11:22 Ven w/o class the parser fails to parse it and thinks there's no such class, when really it just couldn't parse w/o the class ?
11:23 Ven the "class" (literal, I mean)
11:23 jnthn masak: If we supported it, you would put supercede on the method.
11:23 yoleaux 10 Jul 2014 23:38Z <retupmoca> jnthn: I tried to kill the SupplyOperation bug again: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/287
11:23 timotimo well, the way this works is there's a token "typo_typename" that matches something that looks like a typename and if it matches suggests things that have similar names
11:23 timotimo it's put after a || that usually has a <typename> on the lhs
11:23 jnthn masak: It's not a bug that it complains about redefinition inside of an augment.
11:24 timotimo jnthn: my suggestion with putting a new proto into the role is wrong, then?
11:24 masak jnthn: I'd be fine with putting supersede (sic) on the method.
11:24 jnthn Well, if I understand what masak wants, it's to augment a class and *replace* a method
11:25 masak *nod*
11:25 jnthn masak: bah, I hate that word because I can never remember how to spell it. :/
11:25 masak it's spelled wrong, period :P
11:25 masak what's that trait that makes a candidate win?
11:25 masak like !important in CSS
11:25 jnthn is default
11:25 Ven is important :P ?
11:25 masak thanks
11:26 masak using that made things work.
11:26 Ven my $masak is important
11:26 timotimo oh? is default? seems useful, i should remember that
11:26 masak but of course using that is also *WRONG*
11:26 jnthn "Supercede has occurred as a spelling variant of supersede since the 17th century, and it is common in current published writing."
11:26 masak I mean, beyond the fact that MONKEY_TYPING and augment is suspect, too.
11:26 jnthn Bah. :)
11:26 timotimo right; because there isn't really a second candidate that you want to have in the candidate list ...
11:26 Ven is it actually supersede or supercede ?
11:27 masak Ven: supersede
11:27 timotimo how does "is default" work, semantically? is it there to have a winner if two candidates have identical signatures?
11:27 Ven There Is More Than One Way To Spell It.
11:27 masak timotimo: something like that
11:27 Ven but what if ... they both are default ?
11:27 timotimo i wish "something like that" would work in programming :P
11:27 Ven m: sub a { 5 }; sub a is default { 6} ; say a;
11:28 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Qiqs_MM2Ldâ�¤Redeclaration of routine aâ�¤at /tmp/Qiqs_MM2Ld:1â�¤------> [32msub a { 5 }; sub a is default { 6}[33mâ��[31m ; say a;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        stateme…»
11:28 timotimo though i suppose that's how we got to PHP ...
11:28 masak timotimo: see S12:1221
11:28 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html#line_1221
11:28 Ven m: multi a { 5 }; multi a is default { 6} ; say a;
11:28 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«6␤»
11:28 Ven m: multi a is default { 5 }; multi a is default { 6} ; say a;
11:28 camelia rakudo-moar 2c957f: OUTPUT«Ambiguous call to 'a'; these signatures all match:␤:()␤:()␤  in sub a at /tmp/rn2aZM0_jF:1␤  in block  at /tmp/rn2aZM0_jF:1␤␤»
11:28 jnthn Ven: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/supercede has some info on the history of supercede vs supersede
11:29 Ven Should the "is default" be noted in the signature ?
11:29 jnthn No, it's nothing to do with the signature, it's about the sub.
11:30 Ven True.
11:30 Ven the same that a multi isn't seen in the signature
11:31 jnthn Implementation wise, "is default" is handled right at the end of the multi-dispatch logic. It says "oh dear, I have more than one candidate", and before it reports an error it checks if one of them is marked "is default"
11:31 Ven (and only one of them :P)
11:31 jnthn I'm not sure it takes that much care :)
11:32 Ven jnthn: if it didn't, it'd probably just take the first is default variant, which it doesn't
11:32 Ven well, I have absolutely no clue, soo :)
11:33 jnthn oh, it does care :)
11:33 jnthn https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp#L2079
11:34 jnthn heh, well, sort of :)
11:34 jnthn A well-placed "last" in there would probably make it more robust :)
11:36 masak +1
11:36 masak (and a spectest)
11:51 thou joined #perl6
11:54 dalek ecosystem: e4c678a | masak++ | META.list:
11:54 dalek ecosystem: add Data::Pretty
11:54 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/e4c678a033
11:54 masak ladies and gentlebots.
11:54 masak I present you with Data::Pretty.
11:54 masak https://github.com/masak/data-pretty
11:55 masak by the way, there are two failing tests right now in the module. I don't feel savvy enough to fix them. it's probably not that difficult, but help from someone who knows Rakudo/nqp internals better than I do would be greatly appreciated.
11:56 * Ven just has been invited to "ladies who code paris"
11:56 Ven I appreciate the sentiment, but ...
11:56 masak :)
11:56 Ven I don't code :x
11:57 mr-foobar joined #perl6
12:00 masak Ven: if I may ask, what do you do?
12:01 chenryn joined #perl6
12:01 masak pushed v0.0.2 of Data::Pretty, which also handles regexes :)
12:04 Ven masak: I joke around
12:04 masak ah.
12:04 masak sounds like a nice line of work :P
12:04 woolfy1 fwoolfy
12:04 Ven but I'd really love to do something instead of coding. Which really shows that, even in my mind, developer is not a nice job to have.
12:05 woolfy1 oops
12:05 Ven (or maybe it's just because I don't think very highly of fellows web developers ...)
12:05 lizmat Ven: writing a book, is that coding?
12:06 Ven lizmat: speaking on IRC, is that philosophing :) ?
12:07 lizmat wishful thinking?
12:08 Ven lizmat: desilusional one, I'd say :P
12:08 dalek roast: 6dfefc4 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S22-package-format/local.t:
12:08 dalek roast: Some more CompUnit tests
12:08 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6dfefc4da6
12:08 dalek roast: 669ec1f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/ (2 files):
12:08 dalek roast: Some more S17-supply tests, more to come
12:08 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/669ec1f235
12:08 lizmat :-(
12:08 * Ven thinks these words have a pretty nice ring to it, but they're probably barely english
12:09 lizmat franglais will also work here, maybe
12:10 teodozjan_ hi, i have a little question about phasers, they are documented that INIT is being executed on runtime but this is true only for one file project. If i have multiple file project ale imported classess are executed during compilation? This ends in funny results if I forget about this
12:11 lizmat teodozjan_: could you supply a test case ?
12:11 masak yes, an example, please?
12:11 teodozjan_ the compiling one or general?
12:12 jnthn They are run at module load time, after the module has been compiled, but before the module's mainline has been run
12:12 jnthn and modules are loaded immediately upon a "use" statement
12:13 lizmat cycling&
12:13 teodozjan_ https://gist.github.com/teodozjan/97f5322b601f760ccea8
12:14 jnap joined #perl6
12:16 teodozjan_ even though i added INIT
12:16 teodozjan_ https://github.com/teodozjan/lacuna-cookbuk/blob/dd6c68c268b79e4b061ce4847bddf8cb97bd8592/lib/LacunaCookbuk/Model/Empire.pm
12:17 [Coke] masak++ #data::purty
12:17 jnthn teodozjan_: Yes, that's running at the point I'd expect, though I'm a little disappointed the debugger didn't place you inside the INIT phaser...
12:18 Ven .oO( Data::Purr )
12:18 cognominal joined #perl6
12:19 gtodd did -->   my %h = { … }  work once upon a time?
12:20 gtodd I did not know it well and so will not be able to miss it  :)
12:20 teodozjan_ jnthn: this means that initializing attributes in place is not good practice if it leaves some side effects like creating directory
12:22 Timbus gtodd, it.. did. does it not anymore?
12:22 Timbus m: my %h = { a => 1, b => 2 }; say %h.perl
12:22 gtodd just reading p6weekly.org
12:22 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«("a" => 1, "b" => 2).hash␤Saw 1 call to deprecated code during execution.␤================================================================================␤%h = itemized hash called at:␤  /tmp/7gjBYxsAc_, line 1␤Please use %h = %(itemized hash) in…»
12:22 gtodd I mean http://p6weekly.wordpress.com/
12:22 Timbus ooo
12:23 jnthn The problem was that my @a = [1,2,3] clearly treats the array on the LHS as an item, giving an array of array... And { ... } flattening away was rather inconsistent with that.
12:24 [Coke] rakudo has < 900 fudges that are not "RT, NYI, unspecced". whee.
12:24 Timbus yeah i noticed that a week or so ago, because i thought @a = [] was valid
12:24 Timbus then when i was corrected, the %h = {} thing was a bit odd.
12:24 jnthn Well, it is valid, it just doesn't mean @a = () :)
12:25 Timbus i'd kinda prefer if it was alloweed. is there any reason @a = [] behaves the way it does? too much special casing?
12:25 gtodd in pumpkin perl  one has to learn about %hash = ( 'thing1' => '1' ,  'thing2' => '2') versus %hash = { 'thing1' => '1' ,  'thing2' => '2'}  :-)
12:25 gtodd my %h = { … }   would've scared me if I had known ...
12:26 Timbus it only seems scary from a perl 5 standpoint, imo
12:27 gtodd @a = []   is an AoA with one element?
12:27 jnthn Timbus: Because [...] and {...} should simply never flatten in an assignment.
12:27 jnthn gtodd: yes
12:27 gtodd %h = { }  is a hash with errmm .... ok stop now :-)
12:28 chenryn joined #perl6
12:29 Ven 2,9s/^#/ <- I can see why people like vim, tbh.
12:29 jnthn teodozjan_: Having modules do side-effects merely by loading them is probably best avoided in general, yes. I'd much rather a design where the top level instructs the module "do X"...
12:30 Ven [Coke]: oh, really ? That's great :)
12:30 Ven m: my @a = [1, 2]; say @a.perl;
12:30 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«Array.new([1, 2])␤»
12:31 teodozjan_ jnthn: Maybe I spend too much time in java but I didn't expect that compiler will execute method in attribute initilizer during compilation :)
12:31 Timbus hm. i don't see it as flattening when you are assigning it. i guess the plot thickens when you are assigning to elements within other elements. idk
12:32 [Coke] m: subset MyInt of Int where True; my MyInt $x = 5; $x = Nil;  say $x.WHAT;
12:32 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«(MyInt)␤»
12:32 [Coke] There is a test that checking that $x === Int there.
12:33 [Coke] I could see ~~ Int...
12:34 teodozjan_ jnthn: especially that this didn't cause cannot invoke null object on parrot but on moar smells somewhat related
12:34 jnthn [Coke]: Yes, that test seems very dubious to me.
12:34 gtodd " < 900 fudges "  wow ... they are disappearing at a faster rate?
12:34 jnthn I'd expect it to hold MyInt. It would be crazy for $x to hold Int there, because an Int type object is never true.
12:35 jnthn So it'd mean the variable holding something that doesn't meet the type constraint on it...
12:35 jnthn Should be === MyInt I guess.
12:37 timotimo jnthn: would we be putting a spesh function pointer into MVMContainerSpec that would work like the speshes for REPRs?
12:37 timotimo like, emit a sp_trivialdecont operation that simply accesses a pointer at an offset or something like that?
12:38 timotimo oh, this ought to have been #moarvm
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12:40 jnthn teodozjan_: Module load time - and thus running the body of the module - is triggered the first time it's used. It does allow various powerful things, but yes, it'll be a surprise if you have a strict compile-time/runtime separation view of the world, as one has in Java.
12:41 sftp_ joined #perl6
12:43 teodozjan_ jnthn: After a month shootin myslef in foot I start understanding that :) but anyway parrot takes it totally different than moar
12:44 lelf joined #perl6
12:49 jnthn teodozjan_: Yes, that discrepancy is a bug
12:50 dalek ecosystem: 57451ae | sergot++ | META.list:
12:50 dalek ecosystem: OpenSSL bindings module added
12:50 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/57451ae578
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13:07 masak jnthn: a reported one?
13:07 jnthn Not sure.
13:08 masak is there a minimal example?
13:13 Ven Only a month of shooting yourself in the foot ? You're quite good ;)
13:16 Ven do we have any mail libraries ? *goes to check our lil' cpany*
13:19 timotimo i think we have something that handles mail headers?
13:19 timotimo but i could be wrong about that
13:20 Ven yeah. I was more looking forward something that could *receive*, but I guess I'll first try to do it in ruby because I need it in ruby :P
13:21 timotimo receive mails? oh god, the pain ...
13:21 timotimo or did you mean retrieve? like POP3 or IMAP?
13:21 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
13:22 Ven timotimo: first retrieve, then at some point receive.
13:22 timotimo you know receiving mails is basically the worst thing imaginable?
13:23 timotimo well, at least configuring mail servers is said to be a terrible pain
13:24 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
13:25 teodozjan_ Ven: I didn't know how to load gun earlier ;)
13:25 Ven what's gun ?
13:25 SamuraiJack_ joined #perl6
13:27 masak &mkdir doesn't seem to complain for directories that already exist. bug?
13:27 masak Ven: the tool with which to shoot yourself in the foot.
13:27 Ven masak: oh. How do you use it ?
13:28 masak Ven: http://howto-pages.org/shootfoot.php
13:29 Ven thankies.
13:30 Ven There should be a Perl 6 one "you wait for a compiler to be advanced enough to do it, and retire before you can actually shoot yourself in the foot" :D
13:32 * masak (proudly) shoots himself in the foot daily with an advanced Perl 6 compiler
13:32 masak so speak for yourself :)
13:32 Ven can't handle a little irony, eh ? :)
13:33 * Ven shoots itself often enough with his perl 6 in prod, sooo
13:33 masak clearly the same person who trolled his own channel earlier today pretending to be a clueless outsider troll can't handle a little irony, noooo :P
13:34 nwc10 masak: are you in urgent need of a weekend?
13:34 Ven aren't we all. Hey, 3 days weekend !
13:34 nwc10 3? your mileage seems to be varying
13:34 masak nwc10: oh, do I have the appearance of needing one? :/ I just have more time today to fool around than usual...
13:34 * masak is having a Perl 6 day today
13:34 nwc10 aha
13:35 * masak is actually writing Perl 6 right now
13:35 nwc10 oooh
13:35 Ven It's france, we don't work very much.
13:35 * masak .oO( that "strikes" me as plausible )
13:37 nwc10 OK, I can't quite work out a dual language pun
13:37 nwc10 but in the process of failing to, why is http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gr%C3%A8ve a grave accent, but http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gr%C3%A9viste an accute accent?
13:38 * masak .oO( the strike itself is resisiting, but all the participants are active? ) :P
13:38 Ven nwc10: because french. happens all the time ...
13:38 nwc10 ah OK.
13:39 masak Ven: I thought French was the ultimate paragon of logic and clarity!
13:39 Ven masak: I bet you did ..
13:39 * Ven really hates french as a lang
13:39 timotimo masak: luckily, writing "I'm actually writing Perl 6 right now" is an act of "writing Perl 6" :3
13:39 masak timotimo: oh, you noticed.
13:40 thou joined #perl6
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13:44 dmol joined #perl6
13:46 colomon_ I think most of the new module failures from the last two days are because eval finally went away.
13:47 * Ven now wants to see EVAL away :P
13:55 retupmoca Ven: I have IMAP and POP3 modules written. SMTP too, but only client-side
13:55 retupmoca Ven: as well as Email::MIME
14:04 masak wow, :i is really amazingly slow.
14:04 masak I'm measuring a ~35x slowdown with it.
14:05 colomon_ :(
14:06 btyler joined #perl6
14:07 colomon_ PerlJam: Benchmark and File::Temp are failing because of eval -> EVAL.
14:08 colomon_ masak: ditto for Yarn
14:10 * masak removes Yarn from ecosystem
14:12 dalek ecosystem: fef9a4e | masak++ | META.list:
14:12 dalek ecosystem: remove yarn
14:12 dalek ecosystem:
14:12 dalek ecosystem: Not maintained, and not very interesting anymore.
14:12 dalek ecosystem:
14:12 dalek ecosystem: See zblog instead. :)
14:12 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/fef9a4e673
14:12 * PerlJam pushes some updates
14:12 thou joined #perl6
14:13 [Coke] lizmat: so apparently, no, six months was not enough time for, say, PerlJam. :P :)
14:14 bluescreen100 joined #perl6
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14:17 * Ven has a lot of cool ideas of projects using perl 6, but ... they all involve web
14:18 * masak wonders how far pmurias++ got with his JS backend, and if something from that project can be salvaged and resumed
14:19 Ven masak: it has a lot of PIR, sadly
14:19 masak aww :/
14:19 Ven (I didn't mean "web" in "perl 6 as an alt-js" -- just in case)
14:19 treehug88 joined #perl6
14:19 masak no, I get that.
14:19 masak but many of *my* plans would involve generating JS from Perl 6.
14:20 Ven lots of stuff we can't quite compile :P
14:20 Ven and lots of stuff we can just cheat about :D
14:20 jnthn masak: (:i) any chance of a small benchmark? :)
14:20 masak as a matter of fact, yes.
14:21 [Coke] well, jnthn could probably do rakudo -js in about 2 weeks, given previous performance and improved porting tools!
14:21 masak m: say +("flubb" x 1000).comb(/u/); say now - BEGIN now
14:21 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«1000␤0.16337649␤»
14:21 masak m: say +("flubb" x 1000).comb(/:i u/); say now - BEGIN now
14:21 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«1000␤0.81209080␤»
14:21 masak it gets worse for larger values of 1000.
14:21 btyler Ven: nqp-js has a lot of pir? are you sure that isn't just the pir that's in nqp to begin with? he forked perl6/nqp to start with
14:22 Ven btyler: erm, I checked pretty early on in my p6-learning-experience, will recheck
14:22 btyler Ven: I don't see any PIR in this subdir: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/tree/master/src/vm/js :)
14:22 zen_gargoyle joined #perl6
14:24 Ven btyler: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/blob/master/src/vm/js/HLL/Backend.nqp#L72 :P
14:25 PerlJam shouldn't that just be nqp::istype or something anyway? :)
14:25 Ven there are some 'pir' here and there
14:25 btyler Ven: ok, fair, missed a few lines. still, hardly such an amount as to present an obstacle from working on it
14:26 btyler an obstacle to, even
14:26 Ven Yeah, I probably misread some of these files as being of the rakudo-js project :)
14:26 masak insight: the dark side of the coin of memoization is memory leakage -- and doing memoization without considering life cycles is some degree of irresponsible.
14:27 Ven masak: that's specialization in general :P
14:27 jnthn May also simply be that at the time there was no nqp:: alternative, and that nowadays there is...
14:29 colomon_ [Coke]: me neither, I had to fix two of my modules this morning.
14:31 colomon_ [Coke]: also supernovus, it appears
14:31 colomon_ hmm: /Users/colomon/.rakudobrew/bin/perl6: line 2: 40745 Segmentation fault: 11  /Users/colomon/.rakudobrew/moar-HEAD/install/bin/perl6 "$@"
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14:45 hoelzro morning #perl6
14:46 masak hoelzro! \o/
14:46 hoelzro o/ masak!
14:50 gtodd hmm would it be accurate to say there are  "Java based" languages   and there are languages that "run on the JVM" and that they are very different ...
14:51 masak gtodd: I think so.
14:51 gtodd scala seems "like java" but jruby and rakudo-j (and clojure !) are not like java
14:51 gtodd well I think scala is like java ... :-)
14:51 masak gtodd: I mean, to some extent C# is "Java-based", but it doesn't run on the JVM as far as I know.
14:51 gtodd maybe I just mean strongly typed or something
14:52 jnthn C# also evolved a lot faster :)
14:52 gtodd haha
14:52 gtodd more money and fear involved
14:52 gtodd :)
14:52 masak well, I admire the direction in which C# has evolved.
14:53 masak I think Microsoft Research is largely to thank for that.
14:53 jnthn *nod*
14:53 jnthn They got a lot of things right.
14:53 gtodd I guess there's even more languages the run on .NET ...
14:54 * gtodd always mixes up misuses  C# .NET CLR etc
14:55 dalek rakudo/spesh_decont_contspec: e9c4921 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/vm/moar/ops/container.c:
14:55 dalek rakudo/spesh_decont_contspec: teach Rakudo_Scalar how to spesh.
14:55 dalek rakudo/spesh_decont_contspec: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e9c4921677
14:55 cognominal how far behind is mono?
14:56 gtodd anyway ... a thing a perl5 person might notice or see as different better new is that perl6 can haz "Types"  ... (whee!)  but someone using scala might just see it as a way of using/accessing java/jvm with cleaner syntax
14:56 _slade joined #perl6
14:57 * TimToady gets to have a second emergency eye surgery today; well, not the second one today, the second one this week
14:58 * sjn hopes it goes well
14:58 TimToady sprouted another retinal detachment night before last, and another last night, but I was able to use the existing bubble (of sulfur hexafloride!) to stabilize my eye temporarily
14:58 retupmoca TimToady: best of luck
14:59 TimToady they're going to do a vitrectomy this time, to take away my jelly and replace it with something they can see through :)
14:59 masak best wishes, TimToady.
15:00 * Ven disagrees that java is "strongly typed"
15:00 gtodd only asking because sometimes people list all the languages they know and I see java scala groovy ...   and I wonder about adding [ ] around parts of the list :)
15:00 * [Coke] hopes TimToady can see through it also!
15:00 * [Coke] wonders if not-strongly-typed java is a 7 or 8 thing.
15:01 jnthn TimToady: Hope all goes to plan...and your retina gets better at staying attached...
15:01 TimToady depending on whether they put in the two-week gas or the eight-week gas, I may not be able to fly to Bulgaria and Japan
15:01 * Ven notices that TimToady is jelly
15:01 Ven :(
15:02 gtodd TimToady: 8-]   take care of yourself!  Maybe use skype :)
15:04 hoelzro best of luck TimToady
15:05 gtodd [Coke]: I don't know java or java history that well but it does seem like a more recent thing
15:05 nwc10 TimToady: are you going to OSCON or not? (I assume that that's driving, not flying, but it's not clear if even "being driven" is compatible with your current "interesting times")
15:06 nwc10 and yes, I hope it goes well
15:06 TimToady OSCON is up in the air too, though I can potentially at least drive there, if I avoid mountain ranges
15:07 TimToady but it's also not clear that I should go that far from my eye doctors at this point
15:07 TimToady we'll see how it goes
15:07 gtodd is it an ai rpressure thing or a don't move your eyes around too much thing?
15:07 TimToady air pressure, or more precisely, sulfur hexafloride pressure :)
15:08 TimToady or whatever gas they use next time
15:08 gtodd ahah that sums it up .. heh  "don't go that far from my eye doctor" thing
15:08 gtodd wow
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15:08 TimToady it's up to doctors by now :)
15:09 liztormato TimToady: Best wishes from woolfy, elbeho and me
15:09 TimToady so far I've had six doctors looking in my eye since Sunday
15:09 TimToady three at UCLA, and three up here at home
15:10 liztormato That's quite a set of eyes to look at your eyes
15:10 TimToady this all started with a PVD a week ago
15:10 TimToady which is benign unless it tears your retina
15:11 TimToady apparently mine tore in three places
15:11 TimToady unfortunately a PVD tends to fill up your eye with all kind of floaters large and small, which make it hard to see the tears
15:12 liztormato http://www.rnib.org.uk/eye-health-eye-conditions-z-eye-conditions/posterior-vitreous-detachment
15:12 * masak found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posterior_vitreous_detachment
15:12 TimToady I had one a year or so ago, but it was not a problem
15:13 TimToady well, except for the floaters...
15:14 TimToady after today I should not have that problem again, at least in that eye
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15:28 TimToady s/floride/fluoride/ I guess
15:36 timotimo TimToady: i hope all goes according to plan from now on and you'll recover swiftly!
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16:05 hoelzro this is probably a stupid question, but is it possible to get a variable's container (so that I can ask it what type it is)
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16:06 atroxaper Evening, #perl6 !
16:09 atroxaper I cant imagin why Parrot throws SIGSEGV... If I push say "-" in random place then all is ok.
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16:10 masak hoelzro: .VAR is supposed to do that.
16:10 masak m: my $a = 42; say $a.VAR
16:10 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«42␤»
16:10 masak m: my $a = 42; say $a.VAR.^name
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«Int␤»
16:11 masak but, hm.
16:11 hoelzro ahhhh
16:11 masak it doesn't seem to do what I expect.
16:11 japhb_ TimToady: Best wishes on a good and speedy recovery.  Also, it's hard for me to think of 'sulfur hexafluoride' without thinking 'poison hexapoison'.  But then sodium chloride, so ...
16:12 hoelzro that's kind of odd
16:12 hoelzro but it's working for me
16:13 hoelzro m: my $a = 42; say $a.VAR.of.WHAT
16:13 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
16:13 * [Coke] belatedly wishes TimToady g'luck.
16:14 [Coke] if you can reliably segfault parrot: 1) make sure you're using the latest version of rakudo; 2) run it through gdb or something to get a stacktrace 3) open a ticket, please.
16:14 [Coke] er, atroxaper ^^
16:15 jnthn m: my $a = 42; say $a.VAR.WHAT
16:15 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«(Scalar)␤»
16:15 jnthn m: my $a = 42; say $a.VAR.name
16:15 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«$a␤»
16:15 atroxaper [Coke]: I'm interested in point 2. How? :)
16:16 jnthn m: my Int $a = 42; say $a.VAR.of # the type
16:16 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
16:17 [Coke] atroxaper: what OS?
16:17 [Coke] if not-windows, do you have gdb installed?
16:17 atroxaper [Coke]: os x
16:17 [Coke] try "$ gdb ./perl6"
16:18 [Coke] "> run /path/to/exploding/script.p6"
16:18 [Coke] wait until it explodes.
16:18 [Coke] "> bt"
16:18 [Coke] gist that so we can see if you have enough info there. Might have to rebuilding r-p with debugging symbols enabled.
16:19 atroxaper [Coke]: ok. I'll try
16:19 [Coke] atroxaper++
16:19 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 8e8376c | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
16:19 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
16:19 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/8e8376cd80
16:19 dalek perl6-roast-data: 4cc469a | coke++ | / (4 files):
16:19 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:19 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/4cc469a7d2
16:20 [Coke] lots of %(itemized hash) deprecations in the R*.
16:20 [Coke] modules/jsonrpc failing on parrot
16:20 [Coke] ; ... this is all in the daily runs of the other thing now, yes?
16:24 masak the other thing? do you mean emmabot?
16:25 [Coke] there is a website that was showing all build issues/test failures, etc...
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16:25 masak oh!
16:25 [Coke] mumble:8080
16:25 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
16:25 [Coke] .seen au
16:25 yoleaux I haven't seen au around.
16:26 [Coke] ^^ I'm going to shut off Pugs on the daily runs, I think.
16:26 [Coke] It's just too crufty, and no one wants to own it.
16:26 masak +1
16:27 [Coke] niecza I may make another effort to fudge with a bunch of generic "todo" fudges.
16:29 masak Niecza is probably also not a moving target these days -- but of course, getting spectest results from it might still be interesting.
16:31 [Coke] it is more likely someone might do a small commit here or there to track a change, I think.
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: 6c41218 | coke++ | bin/ (2 files):
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: Stop running Pugs every day.
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data:
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: No one is maintaining it, no real change
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: in months.
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data:
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: Thanks for getting us started!  au++ (lots of others++)
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data:
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: Adios. (We'll leave the last log and the data
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: in the daily tracker, but remove the runner)
16:33 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/6c41218378
16:34 [Coke] Step 2 of that, which is more permanent, is to remove all the pugs fudges from roast.
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16:45 masak even that is fairly reversible thanks to Git.
16:47 [Coke] Troo.
16:53 atroxaper With one Rakudo-Parrot version is the last?
16:53 atroxaper This is perl6 version 2014.06-12-ga7b4cba built on parrot 6.5.0 revision RELEASE_6_5_0
16:55 FROGGS atroxaper: you see the revision of the latest commit on the right of the topmost entry: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commits/nom
16:55 raiph m: slurp.subst( / \N*? (\w+) \n { say $0} /, $0, :g) # this seems to work
16:55 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«「nGall」␤␤「luí」␤␤「chúl」␤␤「féin」␤␤「gnéill」␤␤「stór」␤␤「mór」␤␤»
16:56 raiph m: slurp.subst( / \N*? (\w+) \n /, $0, :g).say # but this doesn't; what am I doing wrong?
16:56 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ Ghaoth Dobhair, is beag nár bhris mo chroí.␤␤Ní miste dom ’ rá le brón ’s le crá gur frasach a shíl mise siúl;␤Go Meiriceá…»
16:56 FROGGS so when you see 87dcd11386 there, it would be represented as YYYY-MM-nr-g<commit id>
16:56 FROGGS m: slurp.subst( / \N*? (\w+) \n /, { $0 }, :g).say
16:56 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«nGallAgus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤luíI mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ Ghaoth Dobhair, is beag nár bhris mo chroí.␤␤chúlNí miste dom ’ rá le brón ’s le crá gur frasach a shíl mise siúl;…»
16:57 FROGGS ahh
16:57 FROGGS raiph: I think :g in the subst method for is broken
16:57 FROGGS it will work in the non method version
16:58 raiph m: subst(slurp, / \N*? (\w+) \n { say $0} /, $0, :g).say
16:58 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/TDwM6EQepjâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    subst used at line 1. Did you mean 'substr'?â�¤â�¤Â»
17:00 atroxaper FROGGS: it is funny that i can't find my current's version commit :) git log ga7b4cba -> nothing
17:01 FROGGS atroxaper: strip the leading g
17:01 FROGGS m: my $t = slurp; ($t ~~ s:g/ \N*? (\w+) \n { say $0} /$0/).say # raiph
17:01 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«「nGall」␤␤「luí」␤␤「chúl」␤␤「féin」␤␤「gnéill」␤␤「stór」␤␤「mór」␤␤True␤»
17:02 dalek roast/S26-WHY: 709b077 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-TODO:
17:02 dalek roast/S26-WHY: Add note about indent for declarative blocks
17:02 dalek roast/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/709b077628
17:03 atroxaper FROGGS: oh.. Thanks!
17:03 FROGGS m: my $t = slurp; ($t ~~ s:g[ \N*? (\w+) \n { say $0} ] = 42).say; say $t
17:03 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«「nGall」␤␤「luí」␤␤「chúl」␤␤「féin」␤␤「gnéill」␤␤「stór」␤␤「mór」␤␤True␤42Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤42I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ Ghaoth Dobh…»
17:12 atroxaper FROGGS: sorry, but what is 'nr' in release version format?
17:13 japhb atroxaper, number of commits since the tag
17:14 japhb atroxaper, because you're really seeing the result of `git describe`
17:14 japhb I personally use `git describe --always --dirty`, IIRC
17:15 japhb (It's wrapped up in something else)
17:16 atroxaper japhb: oh. I see.
17:26 FROGGS atroxaper: so you know you are 12 patches ahead of the 2014.06 release
17:27 atroxaper FROGGS: yes. I see. I updated just now. I my sigsegv has gone :) And now I have a couple of deprecated calls.
17:28 FROGGS atroxaper: yes, that sounds about right :o)
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17:39 atroxaper m: my @a = 1,2,3; say @a.WHAT;
17:39 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«(Array)␤»
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17:40 atroxaper ok
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17:49 hoelzro when does 2014.07 go out, again? the 17th, iirc?
17:49 rGeoffrey_ joined #perl6
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17:52 PerlJam hoelzro: aye.  07-17
17:53 hoelzro I better mosey with the S26 stuff, then =)
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17:57 atroxaper I overcame my deprecated calls... But i have a new issue :) https://gist.github.com/atroxaper/ad0714f011f32fd8cbd9
17:58 emilper perl6: use IO::Socket::INET;
17:58 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find IO::Socket::INET in any of: /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/languages/perl6␤»
17:58 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 87dcd1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find IO::Socket::INET in any of: /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-1/languages/perl6/runtime, /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-1/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-1/languages/nqp/lib, /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-1/languages/perl6/lib, /home…»
17:58 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 87dcd1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find IO::Socket::INET in any of: /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/lib/parrot/6.5.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-2/lib/parrot/6.5.0-devel/languages/perl6␤»
17:58 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.Exception: Unable to locate module IO::Socket::INET in /home/p6eval/niecza/lib /home/p6eval/niecza /home/p6eval/.config/niecza␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1502 (die @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza…»
17:59 atroxaper if i use just '$anchor."{$name}"() = %args{$name};' than in case $name eq '%storage' then i have a message about deprecated call and should write  %storage = %(itemized)
18:00 atroxaper I mean I am forced to write a type of left argument, but I dont know it.
18:00 atroxaper I can to find out the type of left argument, but I think it is dirty...
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18:16 psch hi #perl6 o/
18:16 psch https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/284 # now rebased and does-what-it-should
18:16 atroxaper psch: Hi!
18:17 psch if i can't i'd like to defer spectests to someone with a beefier machine; moar alone runs for about 30 minutes or more here with two jobs
18:18 psch hey atroxaper :)
18:22 * psch starts building all backends and spectesting them anyway, because waiting two hours before someone else runs them in 1/5th of the time when it could be finished by then is not really efficient.
18:24 dalek rakudo/spesh_decont_contspec: 3c02865 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/vm/moar/ops/container.c:
18:24 dalek rakudo/spesh_decont_contspec: gotta subtract the header's size from the offset
18:24 dalek rakudo/spesh_decont_contspec: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3c0286513c
18:26 rjbs woolfy: When we were in Lyon, I had some of your jenever.  Today, I bought a bottle of the kind of gin that is considered a "missing link" between genever and London gin!
18:26 rjbs woolfy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Tom_Gin
18:26 nwc10 mmm, gin
18:26 rjbs (I got it after a powerful endorsement by [particle].)
18:27 rjbs (So this really is on topic for #perl6!)
18:27 TimToady you just have to find some way to tie it to linguistics
18:27 rjbs Speaking of drinking and language, today I was trying to find the origin of the meaning "stand you a drink" for stand.
18:28 rjbs It was verb definition #61 (!) of "stand" in OED, but gave no origination.
18:30 japhb I somehow expected "Speak of drinking and language," to be followed by increasingly unreadable gibberish ....
18:31 PerlJam japhb: maybe that's why rjbs can't find the origin of that phrase.
18:34 atroxaper i've created a bug report https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=122274. I still have SIGSEGV
18:37 Mouq_ RE: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-07-11#i_9009278
18:37 Mouq_ You need / \N*? (\w+) \n {} /
18:37 Mouq_ I believe...
18:38 Mouq_ But the {} is supposed to create $/
18:38 atroxaper Mouq_: Hello!
18:38 atroxaper Mouq_: did you see Pod::SAX code?
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18:46 Mouq_ atroxaper: Hi! :) I did get a chance to look at it a little. I imagine there's gotta be a cleaner syntactic way to write Pod::SAX::Goes::HTML
18:47 japhb Goes?
18:48 Mouq_ (I'd just name it Pod::To::HTML)
18:48 atroxaper Mouq_: Do you imagine some concrete syntactic way?
18:49 Mouq_ m: say (4, 5) ~~ sub ($, $) { True }.signature
18:49 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:49 Mouq_ m: say (4, 5) ~~ :($, $)
18:49 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:49 Mouq_ m: say (4, 5) ~~ :(4, 5)
18:49 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:49 Mouq_ m: say (4, 5) ~~ :(4, 6)
18:49 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«False␤»
18:49 Mouq_ ^^ There's one way to clean it up a little; instead of using sub (...) { True } everywhere, use :(...)
18:51 atroxaper Mouq_: Hmm... ok. What else? :)
18:52 atroxaper Mouq_: Do you like a general idea of start, in, stop callbacks and post calls of anchors?
18:55 Mouq_ Honestly, I really didn't at first, but I can see how it would be quite extensible.
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18:56 Mouq_ So yes :)
18:57 Mouq_ If you wanted, you could rewrite all the sub (:@draft, :@meta, etc) { }, as blocks that have @:draft, @:meta, etc, not sure if that would increase or decrease readibility; it's just that the same signatures appear over and over again
18:58 Mouq_ (@:draft is like @^draft, but named instead of positional)
18:58 Mouq_ m: { @:draft.say }( :draft[1,2,3] )
18:58 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
18:59 atroxaper Ohh... I thought about repetitive signature... I don't like it too.
19:00 atroxaper But how can I find out which named arguments uses in each concrete block?
19:01 atroxaper I use a signature for that in my current realization. or you think that I don't check arguments and put it all?
19:01 Mouq_ There also doesn't seem to be a case where you're not just pushing to @draft; maybe make it avaible (since I see where it could be useful to manipulate directly) but maybe just have whatever the block returns be pushed onto @draft?
19:02 Mouq_ m: { @:draft.say }( :draft[1,2,3], :passed-anyway )
19:02 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'passed-anyway' passed␤  in block  at /tmp/eYqF7779kW:1␤␤»
19:02 Mouq_ aww, what?
19:02 Mouq_ m: sub { @:draft.say }( :draft[1,2,3], :passed-anyway )
19:02 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'passed-anyway' passed␤  in sub  at /tmp/Jznfd2tjsD:1␤  in block  at /tmp/Jznfd2tjsD:1␤␤»
19:02 Mouq_ That's annoying
19:02 Mouq_ m: say { @:draft.say }.signature
19:02 camelia rakudo-moar 87dcd1: OUTPUT«:(:draft(@draft)!)␤»
19:03 Mouq_ ^^ Looks like the sig is still introspecable, though. I don't think you'd have to change anything in the backend for that
19:03 Mouq_ *introspectable
19:03 atroxaper Mouq_: oh... that is great!
19:04 jnthn psch: Looked over your latest PR and I'm happy with it. I guess your spectest run is some way along now...lemme know how it works out :)
19:05 atroxaper Mouq_: about @draft. I'm not prefer to push returns value to @draft. I thought, if sub return False, then we call the next sub if it exists.
19:06 psch jnthn: i'm S04 for jvm; parrot and moar come after that... :)
19:07 jnthn k
19:07 jnthn I'm here all evening... :)
19:07 atroxaper Evening... I have 2am already.
19:08 Mouq_ if @returned { push @draft, @returned } else { call-the-next-sub } ?
19:09 Mouq_ You could also return Nil and say if defined @returned, though I'm still just postulating
19:09 Mouq_ It may be better to just push to @draft
19:12 atroxaper Mouq_: And then we remove each :@draft in signature, but add "my @returned;" in third part of code :)
19:12 atroxaper Mouq_: But there will less code in any way. You are right.
19:15 atroxaper Mouq_: Now I'm going to finish with Pod::To::HTML and its tests. And after that refactor the solution.
19:16 atroxaper Mouq_: it's so sad that i have SIGSEGV on one of my test of Pod::To::HTML on Parrot.
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19:20 atroxaper Ok. nights, #perl6 !
19:20 Mouq_ atroxaper: What about having @*draft be a dynamic variable, and having a sub append (*@args) { push @*drafts, @args } ?
19:20 Mouq_ atroxaper: g'night!
19:21 atroxaper Mouq_: mmm.... I didn't understand...
19:21 atroxaper Mmmm.
19:21 atroxaper Mouq_: Good idea!
19:21 atroxaper Mouq_: I would say, Great idea! :)
19:23 atroxaper Mouq_: But... I thinks that I don't understand fully xD
19:25 atroxaper Mouq_: I need to read about dynamic variable! I'm going to do so tomorrow. Nights!
19:25 Mouq_ atroxaper: Haha, sorry. in !visit or somewhere higher on the call chain, define a my @*draft := self.draft. Dynamically scoped variables are to all the functions that are called in the scope of the variable, so the subs in Pod::SAX::Goes::HTML could just push to @*draft
19:25 atroxaper ...
19:26 Mouq_ atroxaper: Sorry, I tend to come and go from the computer
19:26 atroxaper Mouq_: yes! Great Idea!
19:26 Mouq_ atroxaper: Haha, ok :) 'nighty
19:26 atroxaper Mouq_: you too :-)
19:30 dalek rakudo/spesh_decont_contspec: deef0e3 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/vm/moar/ops/container.c:
19:30 dalek rakudo/spesh_decont_contspec: it helps to have your piece of memory for yourself.
19:30 dalek rakudo/spesh_decont_contspec: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/deef0e308c
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19:41 dalek ecosystem: 4a96e8b | (David Warring)++ | META.list:
19:41 dalek ecosystem: Renamed a couple of repositories
19:41 dalek ecosystem:
19:41 dalek ecosystem: perl6-CSS-Language => perl6-CSS-Module
19:41 dalek ecosystem: PDF-Grammar => perl6-CSS-Grammar
19:41 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/4a96e8b311
19:42 psch apparently i still had the non-solution in my nqp-j for the missing outer...
19:43 psch also -Xmx3000m for perl6-eval-server isn't great for 32bit machines :)
19:43 * psch restarts spectests
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19:45 dalek nqp: efba64d | (Timo Paulssen)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
19:45 dalek nqp: bump moar revision to get bigger ContainerSpec
19:45 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/efba64d556
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: e9c4921 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/vm/moar/ops/container.c:
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: teach Rakudo_Scalar how to spesh.
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e9c4921677
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 3c02865 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/vm/moar/ops/container.c:
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: gotta subtract the header's size from the offset
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3c0286513c
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: deef0e3 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/vm/moar/ops/container.c:
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: it helps to have your piece of memory for yourself.
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/deef0e308c
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: e83c5a3 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: bump NQP to get bigger ContainerSpec
19:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e83c5a3c03
19:47 timotimo this ought to make the jit a bunch happier
19:49 fabio__ joined #perl6
19:49 fabio__ lhi
19:49 fabio__ hi
19:49 timotimo hello there :)
19:50 fabio__ :)
19:50 timotimo that was a short visit :(
19:51 Alula_ joined #perl6
20:04 pippo joined #perl6
20:07 pippo .tell TimToady I hope all goes well with your eyes. Best wishes.
20:07 yoleaux pippo: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
20:07 pippo left #perl6
20:10 dalek roast: 75b7b15 | coke++ | S02-types/nil.t:
20:10 dalek roast: Fix busted test; Should use declared type.
20:10 dalek roast:
20:10 dalek roast: jnthn++
20:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/75b7b15219
20:10 dalek roast: 05d8a73 | coke++ | .gitignore:
20:10 dalek roast: To ignore your tmpfiles, use local global gitconf
20:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/05d8a731fe
20:10 dalek roast: fcf62f1 | coke++ | / (301 files):
20:10 dalek roast: Remove any Pugs fudges
20:10 dalek roast:
20:10 dalek roast: * or pugs-specific comments
20:10 dalek roast: * one pugs-specific test file
20:10 dalek roast:
20:10 masak [Coke]++
20:11 jnthn ooh, I go for a walk and lots of commits happen
20:11 jnthn I should go for more walks.
20:11 masak we all should.
20:11 [Coke] dalek gave up: ended with "Thanks for getting us started!"
20:11 [Coke] "so say we all
20:12 nwc10 if we all went for walks at the same time, would it still work?
20:12 nwc10 are there commit faries who only come out when no-one is logging?
20:12 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:14 masak stranger things have happened
20:21 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:23 itz__ does moar work OK with clang?
20:24 vendethiel lots of warning iirc
20:24 [Coke] .tell colomon_ https://github.com/sorear/niecza/issues/191
20:24 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to colomon_.
20:25 jnthn Yes, not heard any reports of it not working. Just that, while we're warning-free on gcc and msvc, clang likes to warn about everything imaginable. :)
20:29 atroxaper joined #perl6
20:30 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:33 BenGoldberg That's why it's called "clang"... it's so noisy ;)
20:34 cognominal joined #perl6
20:39 japhb BenGoldberg, "clang" always makes me think of brutish warrior types -- like a name you'd give an ogre.
20:40 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:49 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:52 BenGoldberg . o O (Clang the conquerer?)
20:55 [Coke] should roast prefer 4-space indents and no tabs?
20:55 [Coke] (if so, bunch of LH formatting fruit)
20:55 dalek roast: 830b276 | coke++ | S12-attributes/delegation.t:
20:55 dalek roast: remove commented out "cannot work" test
20:55 dalek roast:
20:55 dalek roast: (marked so by pmichaud++)
20:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/830b2764b2
20:58 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:59 cibs joined #perl6
21:00 timotimo i usually dislike changing only formatting in commits as it makes git blame pretty much useless
21:01 [Coke] you can still follow the trail to find out who the original editor was.
21:01 [Coke] I dislike it when people commit the wrong formatting!
21:01 timotimo fair enough
21:02 timotimo i suppose it'd take way too long if commits would only fix formatting local to other changes, eh?
21:02 [Coke] but not enough to try to reformat things. (I got to the point where I saw how many tabs were in the source, cried, and then stopped)
21:02 masak there should be a formatting-impervious git blame.
21:02 [Coke] I officially have no problem with formatting only commits, as long as the message is explicit.
21:02 timotimo japhb: you think it'd be a good idea to add a "rakudo-moar-jit" and "nqp-moar-jit" component to bench that puts --enable-jit into the --moar-options?
21:03 [Coke] masak: git is already making stuff up to get from one revision to the next, so that should be doable, yes. :)
21:03 [Coke] (e.g. when you duplicate/edit a file at the same time.)
21:03 Mouq_ ack "\t" | wc -l -> 1908
21:04 cognominal japbh: is it dangerous to cling to clang?
21:04 masak [Coke]: right. Git has kind of opened my eyes to how much info can actually be recreated after the fact. it's a counterintuitive but good design.
21:05 [Coke] Mouq_: not all of them can be converted to spaces without analysis.
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21:09 japhb timotimo, yes, an {nqp,rakudo}-moar-jit seems useful.  I guess it depends on how soon JIT merges.  Because it might be worth it to have {nqp,rakudo}-moar-nojit.  But then you get into -noopt and other combinations as well.
21:09 timotimo yeah :(
21:10 japhb cognominal: If clang is wearing spiked armor or flea-infested skins, then yes.  :-)
21:10 timotimo maybe we're going to wait with the jit-merge until gsoc has finished? though the official docs also encourage merging in contributions swiftly throughout the GSoC
21:11 jnthn I'm aiming we'll include it in 2014.08
21:11 timotimo that sounds good!
21:11 japhb I'll call that a birthday present.  :-)
21:12 [Coke] to about 8 of us.
21:12 timotimo hmpf. i'll have to add --moar-option to the configures of rakudo and nqp it seems
21:12 timotimo wrong. nqp already has that
21:15 jnthn It's not so much about "is GSoC done"; it's more "are the big pieces in place" and "is it doing OK with spectests and ecosystem"
21:16 jnthn A merge a bit after 2014.07 gives us time to be happy that's the case.
21:16 Akagi201 joined #perl6
21:16 Mouq_ Does the jit slow down start-up noticeably?
21:18 telex joined #perl6
21:20 Mouq_ std: q \  /  \  /  \  /  q  \  /  \  /  \
21:20 camelia std 0f2049c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
21:22 jnthn Mouq_: Didn't measure, but probably not a lot, given it only JITs hot things, and producing machine code instead of specialized bytecode is only so much more work...
21:22 Mouq_ jnthn: Ok, cool :)
21:22 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
21:23 Mouq_ jnthn: Thank you
21:26 jnthn Getting too quiet here...
21:26 dalek rakudo/nom: e0cbe53 | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:
21:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix a .DEFINITE code-gen bug.
21:26 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Should not blindly re-use registers that may belong to locals.
21:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e0cbe53008
21:27 jnthn ...so I merged lex2loc
21:28 dalek joined #perl6
21:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 14eedae | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/ops/container.c:
21:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix MSVC build.
21:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/14eedaefb8
21:28 timotimo jnthn: nice :)
21:31 jnthn Note that it's not that aggressive yet.
21:31 jnthn It only does it for parameters and things that we bind to upon initialization.
21:31 timotimo oh, i suppose that's all right
21:31 jnthn Well, it's a good start :)
21:32 timotimo at least the jit can work with lexicals by now, so having lexicals at all isn't going to make it bail any more afaict
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: 1f05e14 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | Configure.pl:
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: expose --moar-option in Configure.pl
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1f05e14e7f
21:35 timotimo this ought to be enough, right?
21:35 _slade joined #perl6
21:38 jnthn timotimo: Right.
21:46 timotimo it's a bit annoying to massage local commits into perl6-bench :\
21:49 vendethiel .oO( I see you take good take of your commits )
21:49 timotimo %)
21:49 SevenWolf joined #perl6
21:49 vendethiel care*. dammit
21:49 ivanshmakov joined #perl6
21:53 timotimo huh.
21:53 timotimo i git clone the moarvm/moarvm.git which has my jit-merged branch in it manually and git checkout jit-merged works
21:53 timotimo but when i clone it via the configure.pl with --gen-moar=jit-merged it doesn't work
21:54 timotimo oh!
21:54 timotimo japhb: --gen-moar clones a MoarVM into nqp/, but perl6-bench clones moarvm into ./
21:55 timotimo oh, suddenly it works much better :)
21:56 japhb That sounds like someone did a copy-pasta from nqp-moar to rakudo-moar in the components build instructions.
21:56 japhb Care to fix, SVP?
21:56 ivanshmakov joined #perl6
21:56 timotimo i'm fixing it
21:56 japhb Thanks!
21:58 japhb timotimo, What did you mean by "it's a bit annoying to massage local commits into perl6-bench"?
21:59 timotimo that was before i figured out that perl6-bench was hitting up github for each moarvm checkout
21:59 timotimo and i got frustrated at trying to get my local "jit-merged" branch in there
22:01 dalek perl6-bench: d8d5301 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | components.json:
22:01 dalek perl6-bench: Configure.pl --gen-moar puts a moarvm under nqp/MoarVM, not moarvm.
22:01 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/d8d5301d53
22:01 japhb Ah.  Yeah, it's a major design feature that `bench setup` and `bench fetch` should be the only things doing network pulls (except for niecza, which I can't do much about, sadly).
22:01 japhb And breaking that was :-(
22:03 japhb timotimo++ for noticing and fixing it
22:04 timotimo going to run a benchmark with rakudo-moar-jit now :)
22:05 timotimo and a jitless rakudo-moar to compare it against
22:05 timotimo this is going to be interesting :)
22:05 jnthn timotimo: Given it can't JIT extops yet and just about everything in Rakudo contains one... :)
22:05 japhb I bet you'll see a bigger difference with the respective nqp's.
22:05 timotimo i suspect it'll be quite visible where OSR and the jit accepts the code and where either bails
22:05 timotimo jnthn: oh damn! i forgot about that :(
22:05 jnthn What japhb said though; at this point the NQPs may come out more itneresting.
22:07 timotimo okay, i'll do those instead
22:10 masak 'night, #perl6
22:10 Akagi201 joined #perl6
22:13 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
22:15 timotimo japhb: got an idea how to make moarvm not need to hit the 'ternets for the submodules it includes?
22:15 japhb timotimo, thinking
22:15 atroxaper joined #perl6
22:16 timotimo Configure.pl of moarvm could be taught a "reuse-submodule-repositories" option or something
22:17 japhb timotimo, I think it is possible by cloning into the proper 3rdparty/ subdirs and using `git submodule` carefully.
22:18 japhb With a little experimentation, we ought to be able to come up with the magic sequence of clones and submodule commands so it Just Works.
22:20 japhb Do any of the submodules recurse?
22:20 timotimo right ... yay :|
22:20 Akagi201 joined #perl6
22:22 japhb I can try later, but if you want to try now, I'd do this:  1. Add each submodule as a component.  2.  `bench setup` to get the new components.  3. Try changing the rules for moarvm to clone them into the right 3rdparty directories before running configure.  4. Check if this Just Worked.  If not, we can try something else.  :-)
22:23 bluescreen100 joined #perl6
22:23 japhb timotimo, and you can find the proper submodule clone locations from .gitmodules in the moarvm root.
22:24 Mouq joined #perl6
22:24 timotimo i can try that later, i'll put up the nqp comparison benchmarks first, though
22:28 timotimo http://t.h8.lv/p6bench/2014-07-12-nqp-jit.html and http://t.h8.lv/p6bench/2014-07-12-nqp-jit-ignored.html
22:29 timotimo it seems like spesh and/or the jit bail on every of those
22:29 timotimo japhb: i think i'll do the submodule pre-cloning stuff tomorrow rather than today and go get some rest
22:30 jnap joined #perl6
22:30 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
22:31 japhb timotimo, Sleep well!
22:31 timotimo will try :)
22:34 _slade joined #perl6
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22:57 rurban1 joined #perl6
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23:14 Akagi201 joined #perl6
23:23 Akagi201 joined #perl6
23:24 woolfy rjbs: thanks for the link and the info.  Next time I'm in the UK, I will ask for a Old Tom gin at the bar.  Or ask for a small bottle in a liquor shop.
23:26 woolfy rjbs: next time we meet, I have to bring some super-old Dutch jenever.  I got a bottle of XO, and it almost tastes like old whisky.
23:26 woolfy This is of course nothing related to Perl 6.  Sorry.
23:27 * vendethiel is pretty sure beer is related to P6, at that point
23:28 woolfy This is not about beer...  :-)
23:30 vendethiel drinks, still
23:30 rurban1 left #perl6
23:31 woolfy Indeed.
23:32 Akagi201 joined #perl6
23:33 jnthn Yeah, on topic... :P
23:33 * jnthn almost froze his beer today while trying to cool it sufficiently...
23:35 woolfy TimToady: we will try to tie as many things to linquistics, just to make you happy!  Dutch for beer is bier, German word is Bier.  French is bière.  It is all delicious, or lekker, or lecker, or bon.
23:36 woolfy Ow, something Perl 6 related...
23:37 woolfy Our French friend elbeho is visiting us in Echt.  He is now the 5th official board member of the YAPC Europe Foundation (congratulations are in place!), he is now officially listed at the Chamber of Commerce.
23:37 woolfy And of course we have been drinking several types of beer with him...  but that's not the point, even though it was very nice.
23:38 woolfy I've shown him the book jnthn made about NQP (jnthn++) and the booklet that came with the course in april this year about Perl 6 by Damian Conway.  elbeho was very interested and decided he has to look into Perl 6 and try it out.
23:38 woolfy Yay.
23:38 vendethiel woolfy: mind asking him if he has a timeline for fpw2014 videos :P ?
23:38 woolfy (now off to bed)(good night all)
23:39 woolfy vendethiel: I will do that when we all wake up...  (hips)
23:39 vendethiel thankies
23:40 * psch just realized that (*****) is a valid closure
23:41 psch std: say (*****)(<1 2 3>, 4)
23:41 camelia std 0f2049c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 128m␤»
23:41 psch note sure if it's ** ** * or ** * **; not even sure it has to start with **
23:41 cognominal elbeho++ woolfy++ lizmat++
23:41 psch Whatever^n...
23:42 Akagi201 joined #perl6
23:42 jnthn psch: LTM menas it'll be ** if there's a choice
23:43 psch jnthn: right. that includes the second set? i.e. if i wanted to multiple multidimensional Whatevers i'd have to have the parens? (disregarding the obvious cause for confusion without any spaces)
23:43 psch err, spaces
23:43 psch not parens
23:44 jnthn Oh, I forgot about **
23:44 jnthn Hmm :)
23:44 jnthn m: say (*****)(<1 2 3>, 4)
23:44 camelia rakudo-moar 1f05e1: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/qoXdp7mKab�HyperWhatever (**) not yet implemented. Sorry. �at /tmp/qoXdp7mKab:1�------> [32msay (**[33m�[31m***)(<1 2 3>, 4)[0m�»
23:44 psch as an aside, j-spectest is somewhere in t/integration
23:44 jnthn Yeah, LTM wants ** as a term first.
23:44 vendethiel Hyper* power hyper* ?
23:45 psch vendethiel: right, (******) is valid too
23:45 vendethiel .oO( when I thought I couldn't care less of whatever, the hyper one came to be ... )
23:45 psch there's the line noise again... :)
23:45 vendethiel you misspelled "perl" :P
23:47 jnthn Whatever can be really nice
23:47 vendethiel it indeed can. I don't quite remember what hyper is supposed to do ...
23:47 xragnar_ joined #perl6
23:47 jnthn .map(*.name), .grep(*.type eq 'stout'), etc.
23:47 jnthn No, me either... :)
23:48 psch S02: "[HyperWhatever] is generally understood to be a multidimension form of * when that makes sense."
23:48 psch i don't know how to figure out the line numbers :)
23:48 vendethiel I love the "when that makes sense" part :D.
23:48 vendethiel "put it there, if it makes sense"
23:49 flussence .oO( "**()" means "generate the code I'm thinking of" )
23:49 psch the examples explain it away as "-> *@x { map { $x { ... } }"
23:49 psch where '...' is not the operator with the same name :)
23:50 flussence "..." means "someone else, write the code I'm thinking of" :)
23:50 vendethiel "..." has a pretty convoluted meaning ...
23:51 Akagi201 joined #perl6
23:51 jnthn The spec saying things like, "when it makes sense", is what makes working on a Perl 6 compiler so easy... :P
23:52 vendethiel "so, uh, about the sense you were talking about earlier"...
23:52 * vendethiel imagines TimToady with a greyed beard thinking of riddles to add in the spec :P
23:52 jnthn "I decided it makes sense on a Tuesday"
23:52 psch "don't care anymore--just shoot me"
23:52 psch i have to say though, it seems rather understandable to me
23:53 psch the HyperWhatever as it's spec'd, that is
23:53 psch of course trying to use it might show more
23:53 jnthn We just don't have so much multi-dim stuff around yet...
23:53 jnthn It's one of the things I'm getting tired of us not having, though... :)
23:54 vendethiel and when jnthn gets tired of something ... the ++ fear !
23:54 jnthn Well, it means it's gradually climbing its way to the top of my "stuff I should work on" list
23:55 * vendethiel hopes that list is shrinking
23:55 * vendethiel doesn't do much to help it shrink, though ...
23:56 psch https://gist.github.com/peschwa/2b05db181f37ea55d458 # j-spectest results
23:57 psch it doesn't look good, but i don't know if i can savely blame 32bit and -Xmx1800
23:57 psch *safely
23:58 jnthn psch: I doubt those fails are related to your patch
23:58 psch the random "Missing or wrong version of dependency" really surprised me
23:58 jnthn Yes, that is odd
23:59 jnthn Though the test probably is shelling out somewhere...
23:59 jnthn But still

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