Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-07-15

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:18 hoelzro any compiler wizards around?
01:19 hoelzro I'm working on the S26 stuff, one of my tokens is being parsed twice, and I can't figure out why
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01:58 dalek perl6-bench: bbca251 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
01:58 dalek perl6-bench: Show missing scores in text history
01:58 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/bbca251bbd
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06:19 sergot o/
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06:41 dalek perl6-bench: 73cf7ef | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: Minor cleanup at top of bench
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/73cf7ef3a7
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: d80285c | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: Factor known-tags() out of `bench list-tags`
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/d80285c58c
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: 207e457 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench:
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: Add `bench quickstart` command
06:41 dalek perl6-bench:
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: Performs all the steps necessary to do a default benchmark of all
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: recent perl5, nqp-moar, and rakudo-moar tags (plus nqp-moar/master
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: and rakudo-moar/nom), showing the resulting performance history
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: summary.
06:41 dalek perl6-bench:
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: Not fully tested yet.
06:41 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/207e4576f0
06:42 japhb And with that, sleep&
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09:06 Ven .lines doesn't take windows's \r into account, and I've had to remove them myself several times. Should it take care of that ?
09:06 moritz yes
09:06 moritz though the exact mode how that should happen isn't clear to me
09:07 moritz maybe \cr\lf should become one grapheme that matches \n
09:08 Ven that does raise a ETOOMAGICAL for me
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09:31 Ven Type check failed for return value; expected 'Bool' but got 'Junction' <- looks like new rakudo broke my game of life :(
09:32 moritz seems like you shouldn't return a Junction when you declared that you return a bool :-)
09:32 moritz maybe 'return so $expression_with_junction'
09:33 Ven I don't return a Junction, though.
09:33 Ven 0 <= $y <= $.dim && 0 <= $x <= $.dim && @.grid[$y][$x] // False; <- how can this return a function ? Except if @.grid ... contains one.
09:33 moritz Ven: just assign it to a variable, and say it's .^name
09:33 moritz then you know.
09:33 Ven m: my $a = do given 3 { when 3 { 1 == 1 | 2 }  }; say $a.perl
09:33 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«any(Bool::True, Bool::False)␤»
09:33 Ven WAT.
09:34 Ven m: my $a = so do given 3 { when 3 { 1 == 1 | 2 }  }; say $a.perl
09:34 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
09:34 * moritz doesn't find it WAT
09:34 moritz you write a Junction, it returns a Junction.
09:34 moritz if you don't want a junction, use || instead of |
09:35 moritz or so, yes
09:35 Ven no, I write `1 == 1 | 2`, not `1 | 2`. But eh.
09:37 jnthn Operations involving a Junction produce a Junction, which flattens away in a boolean context.
09:37 betterworld m: my $a = do given 3 { when 3 { 1 == 1 | 2 }  }; say ?$a.perl
09:37 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«True␤»
09:37 Ven Yeah, but apparently it used to automatically flatten or something.
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09:40 Ven if I do `my Bool @array`, should it auto flatten ?
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09:41 jnthn No.
09:43 moritz that's a type check declaration, not a type coercion declaration
09:46 Ven well. it does seem to run faster than on 2014.03-p :)
09:46 * Ven remembers it ran around 1 fps
09:55 Ven perl6 : incrementing a variable 1 million times => 1.5s, rouby => 0.09s. Still a tiny bit to catch up on :_
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09:56 Ven uh. With a loop {}, perl6 takes 3s.
09:56 Ven Oh, I guess it's the for ^ -> while opt
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11:39 hoelzro morning #perl6
11:44 hoelzro I'm having an issue with my work on S26; my #= comment token seems to be matched *twice* by Grammar.pm, and I can't figure out why
11:44 hoelzro here's a patch, script, and sample output file: https://gist.github.com/ho​elzro/6f356615290a55802f0e
11:52 zengargoyle junctions are starting to remind me of Monads, once you put something in one, you stuck with it forever...
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12:00 cognominal zengargoyle, unlike monads junctions have a very specific purpose. And for monads, idris addresses the issue ias explained in http://eb.host.cs.st-andrews.​ac.uk/drafts/eff-tutorial.pdf  Not sure it can tricklle down to haskell though.
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12:15 hoelzro here's my crappy workaround for that: https://github.com/hoelzro/rakudo/commit/​64af795ef74b9ff05f4e24c27bac76de24ef27c3
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12:18 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 21 commits to roast/S26-WHY by hoelzro
12:19 carlin ohh didn't know dalek could do that
12:19 * hoelzro pats dalek on the dome
12:30 FROGGS_ hoelzro: I guess there is some <?comment> somewhere?
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12:31 FROGGS_ hoelzro: so that the look ahead is done and the match itself
12:31 FROGGS_ (could be a <!before <comment> > also)
12:32 arnsholt The joys of producing your thesis in LaTeX: I've just spent my whole day to write ~130 lines of TikZ code to produce a page with line drawings on it
12:32 dayangkun joined #perl6
12:32 arnsholt Yay, productivity! \o/
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12:32 FROGGS_ \o/
12:32 FROGGS_ *g*
12:36 [Coke] someone who uses latex! have you checked out simon cozen's SILE?
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12:39 [Coke] RT now has 784 Rakudo tickets.
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12:40 nwc10 Perl 5 only has 1400 - you're more than halfway to maturity :-)
12:41 [Coke] m: say eval "3"
12:41 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/ROwfXHV9Fyâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    eval used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
12:41 lizmat m: say EVAL "3"
12:41 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«3␤»
12:41 lizmat m: say EVAL 3
12:41 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«3␤»
12:42 lizmat m: say EVAL "'3'"
12:42 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«3␤»
12:42 lizmat m: say (EVAL "'3'").WHAT
12:42 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
12:42 [Coke] lizmat++: there was a ticket about that, just double checking before I closed it.
12:42 lizmat m: say (EVAL "3").WHAT
12:42 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
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12:45 arnsholt [Coke]: Linky?
12:46 [Coke] arnsholt: to what?
12:47 arnsholt Oh sorry, SILE
12:47 arnsholt Always interested in new LaTeX stuff =)
12:47 [Coke] https://github.com/simoncozens/sile
12:48 [Coke] "SILE is a text formatting engine. It's sort of like TeX, except it isn't 35 years old, doesn't use idiosyncratic font and output formats, and it isn't written in Pascal."
12:49 arnsholt Sounds interesting, but that'd also have the drawback of not having all of my fun TeX stuff =)
12:49 arnsholt One of the reasons TeX is so darn resilient is that it's actually a complete programming language
12:51 carlin .oO( Perl 6 is a programmig language. It's sort of like Perl 5, except it isn't 20 years old... )
12:51 [Coke] given that simon had the first commit in the parrot repo, that should not surprise you. :)
12:52 [Coke] I looked at it briefly, but it seems almost like html2pdf to me, based on how I'd use it.
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13:03 lizmat Question: should we ever allow loading of a pre-compiled compunit if the associated source file is not there (anymore) ?
13:04 lizmat if we consider the pre-comp file to be a cache, to be refreshed when needed, a pre-comp binary file only makes that impossible
13:05 lizmat on the other hand, in the case of a .jar: there may not be a source file available for rakudo to use to create the pre-comp binary
13:06 jnthn Note that pre-comp binaries are tied to a particular Rakudo build also.
13:06 FROGGS_ not having the ability to rebuild a .moarvm file does not imply disallowing to use that .moarvm file when it is still valid
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13:06 jnthn Folks certainly may wish to distribute a binary build, but I think they use case is going to be shipping a complete package including a matching Rakudo.
13:06 jnthn *the
13:07 FROGGS_ true
13:07 jnthn Which is fine, really; disk is cheap.
13:13 lizmat so binary only is ok?
13:13 lizmat in the context of a complete package and source obfuscation, I guess  :-)
13:13 FROGGS_ yes
13:14 timotimo source obfuscation is a brilliant idea!
13:14 FROGGS_ also, the source could be somewhere else at runtime... so as long the cache is okay we should use it
13:14 timotimo we should ship a tool that strips annotations like line numbers out of moarvm bytecode %)
13:14 jnthn lizmat: Perhaps "binary is OK" depends on the compunitrepo in question.
13:15 jnthn lizmat: But to a first approximation, I'd say allow it.
13:15 lizmat okidoki..  just checking  :-)
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13:39 hoelzro ah ha
13:39 hoelzro I think you're right, FROGGS_
13:39 hoelzro FROGGS_++
13:40 hoelzro FROGGS_: extra points if you can help me think of a better solution than my existing one =)
13:40 * hoelzro isn't sure if you can tell if a token was matched via lookahead or otherwise
13:40 hoelzro hmmm...do action methods get called for lookaheads?
13:41 FROGGS_ no
13:41 FROGGS_ action methods are called for every matching token
13:41 hoelzro ah ha
13:41 timotimo is there a way to capture the result of a lookahead anyway?
13:41 hoelzro so maybe I should be doing my work there...
13:41 FROGGS_ timotimo: no
13:42 FROGGS_ timotimo: maybe in an ugly way...
13:42 FROGGS_ hoelzro: yeah, that is what actions are for, basically :o)
13:42 timotimo heh. put a { $external_var = $/.clone } in there or something
13:42 timotimo (eew)
13:42 hoelzro =)
13:42 FROGGS_ eww, yeah :o)
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13:55 lizmat NRpm meeting&
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14:33 hoelzro masak: ping
14:37 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 2cec0c6 | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
14:37 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
14:37 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/2cec0c6f69
14:46 atroxaper m: say { return False; }()
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: ( no output )
14:46 atroxaper m: say { False; }()
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«False␤»
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14:57 masak hoelzro: pong
14:58 hoelzro masak: is ufo obsolete? it's broken with the latest perl6-m
14:59 masak I don't think it's obsolete as in "there's no concievable use for it".
14:59 masak I haven't used it myself much.
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14:59 masak sorry to hear it's broken on m.
14:59 masak maybe I can help?
14:59 * masak clones it and tries to run it
15:00 hoelzro masak: I actually have an outstanding PR to fix it =)
15:00 masak hm, getting a deprecation warning...
15:00 hoelzro I haven't been keeping up with the module ecosystem stuff in P6 land much, so I'm wondering if there's something newer, flashier, and better available =)
15:01 dalek ufo: c188859 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | bin/ufo:
15:01 dalek ufo: Remove deprecated usage of $*VM
15:01 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/c188859a27
15:01 dalek ufo: 37479e4 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | bin/ufo:
15:01 dalek ufo: Coerce %*CUSTOM_LIB paths to Strs
15:01 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/37479e4d7e
15:01 dalek ufo: f950bac | (Carl Mäsak)++ | bin/ufo:
15:01 masak hoelzro: merged.
15:01 dalek ufo: Merge pull request #14 from hoelzro/master
15:01 dalek ufo:
15:01 dalek ufo: Fix ufo to work with latest Mokudo (2014-06-11)
15:01 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/f950bac295
15:01 hoelzro masak: thanks!
15:01 masak thank *you*.
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15:02 dalek ufo: f88b3bd | Kamil++ | README:
15:02 dalek ufo: Removed repos that changed into alien panda
15:02 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/f88b3bdd1c
15:02 dalek ufo: 9653e94 | (Carl Mäsak)++ | README:
15:02 dalek ufo: Merge pull request #15 from teodozjan/readme
15:02 dalek ufo:
15:02 dalek ufo: Removed repos that changed into alien panda
15:02 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/9653e9463d
15:09 dalek ufo: 5ab0f4b | (Kamil Kułaga)++ | README:
15:09 dalek ufo: Removed repos that simply disintegrated
15:09 dalek ufo: review: https://github.com/masak/ufo/commit/5ab0f4b22b
15:10 masak handled all other pull requests for ufo while I was on it.
15:12 colomon hoelzro: I think most people are using panda instead of ufo these days...
15:13 hoelzro ah, I see
15:13 hoelzro I haven't looked at panda in a while
15:15 teodozjan colomon: Compilin big project multiple times with panda hurts :)
15:15 colomon teodozjan: not sure what you mean by that, but I'm sure that panda can be improved...
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15:17 teodozjan colomon: when using ufo there is incremental compilation, afaik panda always starts over
15:18 * colomon has to admit he hardly ever compiles at all during module development…. then uses panda when things are pretty stable.
15:20 atroxaper joined #perl6
15:20 * teodozjan was abducted by ufo from world when people have habit of compiling projects
15:21 teodozjan s/when/where :)
15:21 carlin panda is optimized to increase slacking off time
15:21 carlin ufo's alien tech was just too efficient
15:22 teodozjan panda understands corporation needs ;)
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16:03 hoelzro so I just discovered that http://perl6advent.wordpress.com​/2011/12/10/documenting-perl-6/ uses #= as leading comments
16:03 hoelzro should that be corrected?
16:03 hoelzro are advent posts edited after the fact if the language changes in ways that invalidate them?
16:05 flussence I think it's okay, as long as you leave a footnote saying it was changed
16:05 masak yes, sometimes they are edited.
16:05 masak depends on the original author, I think.
16:10 japhb hoelzro: What's the cycle for #= deprecation?  I end up using it a lot ...
16:10 hoelzro japhb: I have no idea =P
16:10 hoelzro I've just been working to make rakudo follow the spec
16:10 hoelzro the fix is pretty simple; just replace #= with #|
16:10 japhb In nom, or another branch?
16:11 hoelzro it's in S26-WHY under github.com/hoelzro/rakudo
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16:11 hoelzro it *could* be in this month's release
16:11 japhb Yeah, just a lot of stuff to update, a fair amount of it shared -- so I have to make sure I update the code and users' perl6 at the same time.
16:11 hoelzro but I might hold off having it merged until 2014.08
16:12 hoelzro if you look at roast, there's a file called S26-TODO under the S26-WHY branch
16:12 japhb If you decide to hold off, I would put a deprecation warning in 2014.07's changelog
16:12 hoelzro which illustrates how much is left to be done =)
16:12 hoelzro sounds like a good idea to me
16:13 hoelzro my program that makes use of this stuff won't be ready until after 2014.08 is out anyway
16:13 hoelzro who's the release manager this month, anyway?
16:15 japhb Hmmm, I don't see one in docs/release_guide.pod
16:19 PerlJam "#= deprecation"?  What's that about?
16:20 masak it's an old spec change from October 2011.
16:21 PerlJam So, #= isn't going away, just its meaning changes?
16:21 masak https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/7​d19390d0260bca59a2c0ba6d54968cc39206bd6
16:21 masak it's being split in two, favoring predictability rather than DWIM.
16:22 masak I bet there is quite a bit of interesting discussion in the IRC logs around that time, too.
16:22 masak I remember Haddock (a similar Haskell doc tool/syntax) being discussed as an influence.
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16:23 PerlJam Aye, I've been thinking of it as that commit says, but when I saw "#= deprecation", it sounded like it was going away.
16:23 grondilu Hello, maybe the following warning while compiling MoarVM is worth signaling:
16:23 grondilu src/6model/reprs/CPointer.c: In function ‘set_int’:
16:23 grondilu src/6model/reprs/CPointer.c:33:17: warning: cast to pointer from integer of different size [-Wint-to-pointer-cast] body->ptr = (void *)value;
16:24 grondilu (it's the only warning I get so I thought maybe it matters=
16:24 hoelzro PerlJam: I guess it's more of an "existing behavior of #=" deprecation =)
16:24 jnthn grondilu: On 32-bit, ooc?
16:24 raiph joined #perl6
16:25 grondilu linux 32 bit indeed.
16:25 jnthn Yeah, it warrants a look.
16:26 atroxaper joined #perl6
16:26 grondilu there's a similar warning in exceptions.c:
16:26 grondilu src/core/exceptions.c: In function ‘search_frame_handlers’:
16:27 grondilu src/core/exceptions.c:81:61: warning: cast from pointer to integer of different size [-Wpointer-to-int-cast] MVMuint64           block_label = block_has_label ? (MVMuint64)(f->work[eh.label_reg].o) : 0;
16:28 * grondilu wonders if that could be related to the NativeCall issue in tests for 32 bit machines
16:33 hoelzro lunch &
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16:58 dalek perl6-roast-data: 12c6a3c | coke++ | / (5 files):
16:58 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:58 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/12c6a3cc64
16:59 dalek roast: 9eb26a8 | coke++ | integration/99problems-51-to-60.t:
16:59 dalek roast: fudge for rakudo.moar
16:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9eb26a8bf7
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17:07 dalek ecosystem: b74dfb3 | (Michal Jurosz)++ | META.list:
17:07 dalek ecosystem: Add IO::Socket::SSL (required by HTTP::UserAgent)
17:07 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/b74dfb33f8
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17:26 rindolf TimToady: hi, are you feeling better?
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17:30 mj41 sergot: Hi https://github.com/sergot/​io-socket-ssl/pull/1/files pls
17:30 sergot Oh, I didn't notice that, mj41++ thank you!
17:31 sergot mj41: anyway, it's not in the ecosystem yet
17:31 mj41 sergot: it is https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit​/b74dfb33f8306d136815e481b171cb7c93862490 :-)
17:32 mj41 trying to install HTTP::UserAgent
17:32 sergot ohh, I wanted to put it there a bit later :)
17:32 sergot right :)
17:32 sergot mj41++ thanks
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17:36 sergot mj41: it still has a lot of bugs though
17:37 mj41 sergot: np, you should fix them (it is in the ecosystem already) :-)
17:38 sergot mj41: yes, it's my gsoc project, I will :)
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17:41 retupmoca sergot: re IO::Socket::SSL - is it possible to "upgrade" an existing socket connection to ssl/tls ?
17:41 retupmoca (such as required by the STARTTLS option in smtp, for example)
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17:43 sergot retupmoca: it is, by using .set-fd, just need to pass the file description of your connection
17:44 sergot or it'll be
17:44 sergot I mean, it is , but I have never tested it, so I cant say how it works :)
17:44 retupmoca ah, ok
17:44 retupmoca I assume that takes the C-level fd?
17:45 retupmoca I have to figure out how to get that then
17:46 sergot retupmoca: yes
17:47 sergot retupmoca: what are you using to connect?
17:47 retupmoca IO::Socket::INET.new
17:48 sergot Yeah, my goal is to get the fd from it, could you let me know if you figure out how to do this?
17:48 sergot It's seems to be easy when we talk about files, but not so easy in case of sockets.
17:48 sergot it seems*
17:50 FROGGS_ can't we establish an unsecured connection via openssl, and upgrade it afterwards?
17:50 FROGGS_ this way we would have an fd for sure
17:56 sergot hmm, I'm not aware of this
17:56 sergot I'll find out
18:03 mj41 modules.perl6.org is updated, but panda uses http://feather.perl6.nl:3000/projects.json (not updated yet)
18:06 mj41 hmm, feather is up to date now
18:06 raiph hoelzro: could we pretty please have #< and #> (and if at all possible, #<...> too)?
18:06 hoelzro raiph: I'm just following the spec =)
18:07 hoelzro what would #<...> do?
18:07 raiph change the spec :)
18:07 raiph #<...> would be same as or instead of #`< ... >
18:08 hoelzro would it also be a decl comment?
18:08 hoelzro or just a regular one?
18:08 hoelzro I'm all for #< and #>, but I think it merits discussion
18:08 jnthn The reason for the ` is so you end up with a line commenting out the opening of some bracketing construct ending up commenting out the entire construct by accident.
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18:09 jnthn uh, so you don't end up with
18:09 sergot mj41: exec: panda update
18:11 raiph m: say 3 #`< embedded comment > + <apple orange>
18:11 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«5␤»
18:11 mj41 sergot: I did, but modules.perl6.org is not updated at the same time as the feather.perl6.nl (used by "panda update")
18:12 mj41 sergot:  Successfully installed HTTP::UserAgent
18:12 raiph m: say 3 + <apple #`< embedded comment > orange>
18:12 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«7␤»
18:12 mj41 sergot: after "yum install openssl-devel"
18:12 sergot mj41++: \o/
18:14 raiph sergot++ mj41++ # writing/exercising important modules
18:17 PerlJam m: say (<apple #`< embedded comment > orange>).perl
18:17 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«("apple", "#`<embedded", "comment>", "orange").list␤»
18:17 PerlJam huh.  That's weird
18:17 sergot raiph: thanks :)
18:17 japhb PerlJam: Why weird?
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18:18 japhb that the spaces inside the inner brackets got squeezed?
18:18 PerlJam yeah
18:18 japhb Yeah, that is kinda odd.
18:18 PerlJam m: say (<<apple #`< embedded comment > orange>>).perl
18:18 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«("apple", "#`<", "embedded", "comment", ">", "orange")␤»
18:19 jnthn m: say Q{{ 1 { 2 } 3 }}
18:19 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT« 1 { 2 } 3 ␤»
18:20 jnthn Following same rules as things like that, I believe.
18:20 jnthn m: say Q{ 1 { 2 } 3 }
18:20 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT« 1 { 2 } 3 ␤»
18:20 jnthn That's more clear.
18:20 jnthn It keeps a count of extra openers it saw
18:20 jnthn Note the whitespace splitting is a postprocessing step.
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18:20 sergot mj41: any feedback will be appreciated
18:21 raiph jnthn: I'd appreciate a demo of your earlier point (commenting out by accident) using camelia
18:23 japhb jnthn: I think his point was that with < (as opposed to <<), the inner spaces *disappeared*.
18:23 japhb If the spaces were still there but the splitting hadn't happened, that would be a different issue.
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18:33 jnthn japhb: That's what I meant by it being a post-processing step with <...>. We parse it like any other string, and then split it afterwards. It's <<...>> that works at a smarter, AST level.
18:35 jnthn raiph: It was more a concern with {...} really: if you were commenting out lines of code using #, and just happen to comment out a line starting with a {, it's preferable that it doesn't suddenly change meaning from being a single-line to a bracketed comment.
18:35 jnthn ` isn't used in code in Perl 6, so it's not a risk with that.
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18:42 masak circumfix:<` `> has been unofficially marketed as a nice target for slangers.
18:44 [Coke] jnthn: (like any string and split afterwards) - where is that, I have a bugfix I need to put in. :)
18:44 [Coke] (something about non-break space)
18:46 cognominal "unofficially marketed".  Perl shines in stealth marketing... except when #perl6 was created in freenode.
18:46 jnthn [Coke]: Probably in Perl6::Actions::Q as some kind of postprocess method.
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18:49 vendethiel cognominal: what happened then,
18:49 vendethiel s/,/?
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18:51 japhb jnthn: One of us is confused.  I might have expected ("apple", "#`<", "embedded", "comment", ">", "orange").list and could understand the bug if it returned ("apple", "#`< embedded", "comment >", "orange").list or ("apple", "#`< embedded comment >", "orange").list.  But why would the spaces disappear, instead of *either* appearing in the output strings or being used to split on?
18:53 jnthn japhb: Oh...now I see
18:53 jnthn OK, that's is weird.
18:53 japhb yeah
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18:56 PerlJam japhb++ for saying what I was thinking
18:56 cognominal vendethiel, people do stats about activities on well know places and conclude that Perl is dead.  But most perl activity is secluded on  perl.org irc  servers.
18:56 masak Rakudo compiler release is in two days, and we don't have a release manager signed up :(
18:57 PerlJam The only problem with using IRC as a communication medium for work is that sometimes ... you actually have to do some work  ;)
18:59 * jnthn wonders why it's become so hard to find release managers :(
19:00 masak I could sign up for it, but I'd prefer to delegate it.
19:00 cognominal vendethiel surely, people who relies on whatever metrics fails to see interesting things because Kuhnian paradigm changes make old metrics obsolete.
19:01 PerlJam jnthn: people are busy?
19:02 jnthn PerlJam: Maybe the average busy-ness of channel inhabitants has increased in recent months... :)
19:02 masak I agree -- it used to be easier.
19:03 masak I have released Rakudo twice this year. timotimo, tadzik, FROGGS, and sergot have all released it once.
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19:04 masak looking back at 2013, we see isBEKaml, Coke, and lizmat as release managers, apart from the ones already mentioned.
19:05 masak 2012: japhb, pmichaud.
19:05 FROGGS_ I think I can do it on Thursday, but I#d prefer August
19:05 masak 2011: jdhore, mberends, arnsholt.
19:05 FROGGS_ I'd*
19:06 masak FROGGS_: [Coke] has August. is September OK? :)
19:06 FROGGS_ September is fine, aye
19:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 84289aa | (Tobias Leich)++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
19:07 dalek rakudo/nom: sign up for September release
19:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/84289aa797
19:07 masak FROGGS_: dang, you beat me to it ;)
19:07 FROGGS_ :P
19:07 masak had to do a `git pull --rebase`, which slowed me down...
19:07 FROGGS_ masak: I just edited on the website
19:07 masak anyway, FROGGS++
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19:08 masak FROGGS_: I'm pretty sure I'm faster on the console than on the website, though. less network latency.
19:08 masak also, vim.
19:08 FROGGS_ hehe
19:08 FROGGS_ all in all it just took about four seconds or so the way I did it
19:09 FROGGS_ (the release guide is in my browser history)
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19:10 cognominal vendethiel, "We have had some terrible news. Perl is secluded in the west wing". /me paraphrases Big Lebowsky.
19:11 dalek rakudo/nom: fe26e31 | duff++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
19:11 dalek rakudo/nom: Sign up for Oct release
19:11 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fe26e31f95
19:12 mj41 joined #perl6
19:13 masak PerlJam++
19:13 jnthn Yay.
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19:13 masak ok, so it isn't that people won't do releases. nice.
19:13 masak it's that they won't do the Thursday release :P
19:14 dalek rakudo/nom: 38ec697 | (Tobias Leich)++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
19:14 dalek rakudo/nom: sign up for July, who needs spare time anyway
19:14 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/38ec697819
19:14 masak note: I will do it if no-one else does. but I'd prefer it if someone else did.
19:14 masak ooh!
19:14 masak FROGGS++
19:15 masak FROGGS_: can I grab September, then?
19:15 FROGGS_ in exchange jnthn++ needs to fix the jvm stuff :P
19:15 FROGGS_ masak: sure, if you like
19:15 FROGGS_ in fact, I don't mind doing both
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19:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 4a3e4d9 | masak++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
19:15 dalek rakudo/nom: [docs/release_guide] oust FROGGS++ from Septembe
19:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4a3e4d9102
19:15 lizmat masak, FROGGS_: July is impossible for me because I'll be on a plane to Portland and zonked out on the far end
19:15 masak r
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19:16 masak lizmat: "zonked out on the far end" sounds like a good name for an ambient rock band.
19:17 [Coke] masak, FROGGS_: happy to take sept instead of august, no problem.
19:17 masak either works for me.
19:17 [Coke] (or later, if needs be. it was just teh first one I knew I'd be able to do when I signed up)
19:18 masak I'm just happy we now have releasers for all the way to October :>
19:18 jnthn lizmat: Feel free to pick Nov or Dec. ;)
19:18 jnthn At this rate we can be done for the rest of the year. :)
19:18 masak \o/
19:18 masak #perl6++
19:18 FROGGS_ well, there is also star
19:18 jnthn Yes...
19:19 FROGGS_ btw, it might make sense to do both star and the compiler release in the same run
19:19 PerlJam FROGGS_: have you done them both like that before?
19:19 jnthn I'm not sure that'll help...given Star can involve chasing modules up...
19:19 FROGGS_ ewww, I've got a 48cm thingeny on my pillow that stinks >.<
19:20 masak "thingeny"?
19:20 FROGGS_ PerlJam: I always do a last star smoke test when doing a compiler release, so I see that there is no point release needed to recover from a regression
19:20 [Coke] PerlJam: the 2014-10 release is on the 23, not the 16th.
19:20 [Coke] mind if I fix it?
19:20 FROGGS_ masak: yeah, I mean it is cute when it sleeps, but it does not smell nice atm
19:21 PerlJam sure, I just left the date that was there.
19:21 [Coke] it's "first thursday after 3rd tuesday", not "third thursday", which has bit me at least once in the past.
19:22 PerlJam FROGGS_: I haven't looked, but if you have any pointers about compiler release + star release, it might be useful to add that to the release guide.
19:22 FROGGS_ PerlJam: the star release has its own guide
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19:22 dalek rakudo/nom: fdf0a22 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
19:22 dalek rakudo/nom: Pick up November
19:22 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fdf0a2293d
19:23 FROGGS_ and of course it takes time to do both
19:23 masak m: for 1..12 -> $month { my $d = Date.new(Date.today.year, $month, 1); ++$d until $d.day-of-week == 2; $d += 14; $d += 2; say $d }
19:23 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«2014-01-23␤2014-02-20␤2014-03-20␤2014-04​-17␤2014-05-22␤2014-06-19␤2014-07-17␤2014-08-21​␤2014-09-18␤2014-10-23␤2014-11-20␤2014-12-18␤»
19:23 FROGGS_ and perhaps it is not that easy to do the star with a not yet done compiler release at all...
19:23 FROGGS_ I'll think about it this Thursday
19:24 dalek rakudo/nom: c9d3ca9 | (Will Coleda)++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
19:24 dalek rakudo/nom: fix date, add more releases, steal one.
19:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c9d3ca9d1c
19:25 [Coke] dammit, the live edit dropped lizmat's change in favor of mine. fixing...
19:26 dalek rakudo/nom: b46af89 | (Will Coleda)++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
19:26 dalek rakudo/nom: give lizmat++ her release back
19:26 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:26 dalek rakudo/nom: github-- for the live edit not merging in changes to commits that happened since I started editing!
19:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b46af89ede
19:26 masak m: sub first(Date $d, &p) { $d++ until &p($d); $d }; for 1..12 -> $month { say Date.new(Date.today.year, $month, 1).&first(*.day-of-week == 2).later(2, 'weeks').later(2, 'days') }
19:26 PerlJam [Coke]++ for illustrating why my suspicion of the live edit thingy is justified  :)
19:26 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Date␤  in sub postfix:<++> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1834␤  in sub first at /tmp/GAPB2Awrr4:1␤  in block  at /tmp/GAPB2Awrr4:1␤␤»
19:26 masak m: sub first(Date $d is copy, &p) { $d++ until &p($d); $d }; for 1..12 -> $month { say Date.new(Date.today.year, $month, 1).&first(*.day-of-week == 2).later(2, 'weeks').later(2, 'days') }
19:26 [Coke] I will volunteer for a star release perhaps when I get mynew laptop with enough memory. :)
19:26 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 3 but expected 1␤  in method later at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:15692␤  in block  at /tmp/DCLLC01ufY:1␤␤»
19:29 jnthn masak: I guess it's weeks => 2, or :2weeks
19:29 masak m: sub first(Date $d is copy, &p) { $d++ until &p($d); $d }; for 1..12 -> $month { say Date.new(Date.today.year, $month, 1).&first(*.day-of-week == 2).later(:2weeks).later(:2days) }
19:29 camelia rakudo-moar 736027: OUTPUT«2014-01-23␤2014-02-20␤2014-03-20␤2014-04​-17␤2014-05-22␤2014-06-19␤2014-07-17␤2014-08-21​␤2014-09-18␤2014-10-23␤2014-11-20␤2014-12-18␤»
19:29 masak \o/
19:29 jnthn .oO( Did I just tell masak how to use an API he designed? :) )
19:29 masak re-re-designed, but yes.
19:30 masak that last shuffle-around was *good*, mind, and left us in a better place than before, with .delta
19:30 masak ...but I'm not yet used to it ;)
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19:32 [Coke] have people actually be doing step 10 so that spectest runs clean?
19:32 FROGGS_ [Coke]: yes, at least for moar and parrot
19:33 [Coke] (given the daily failures I'm seeing in the spec test suite, I imagine not)
19:33 [Coke] huh. ok.
19:33 FROGGS_ moar is (was?) hard because of S17
19:33 [Coke] there are dozens of failures in jvm & parrot at the moment.
19:33 FROGGS_ :/
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19:50 cognominal lizmat++,  should'nt there be mention of the MIME RFCs in S22, and a way to declare media type according to http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2046
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20:14 Ven can I say that the whatever star will "wrap around the closest expression and turn it into an anonymous function ?"
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20:15 colomon "closest"?
20:16 colomon as far as I know, it would be more accurate to say it will turn an operator into an anonymous function most of them time….
20:17 Ven m: (say *)(3)
20:17 camelia rakudo-moar 84289a: OUTPUT«*␤Cannot find method 'postcircumfix:<( )>'␤  in block  at /tmp/FD3GWtDLhN:1␤␤»
20:18 Ven mmh, yah
20:18 colomon and the effect runs up through a series of operators (again, most of the time)
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20:50 Ven m: (3*(5+*))(5) # p sure this works ...
20:50 camelia rakudo-moar b46af8: ( no output )
20:51 Ven m: m: 3 # this segfaults on my machine
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar b46af8: ( no output )
20:51 cognominal m:   multi sub say(Whatever)  { sub ($) { say "Whatever! What did you expect?"  }  }; (say *)(3)
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar b46af8: OUTPUT«Whatever! What did you expect?␤»
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20:59 cognominal Ven: I suppose you could do interesting things with functions that do not support Whatever by catching the exception and recalling the function appropriately to have it your way. But I don't know enough about exceptions to get the original arguments.
21:00 Ven that seems like magic a tad too dark for me
21:00 Ven (and for my tutorial :).)
21:02 cognominal magic? that sounds  more like pure evil! just one step of a pure EVAL.
21:04 jnthn EVAL *is* pure if the code does no side-effects :P
21:07 cognominal indeed, Perl 6 is strict but usually impure
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21:10 carlin hm, `anything:` causes a segfault
21:10 carlin m: ItsAlive: say 'alive'
21:10 camelia rakudo-moar b46af8: OUTPUT«alive␤»
21:10 carlin aww :(
21:11 carlin oh, only on the REPL
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21:35 avuserow how hard is making a star release? I may have some tuits and interest in that this month. If not to do it entirely, to lend a hand somehow if that's possible?
21:36 [Coke] IME, it's more time intensive than hard.
21:36 avuserow I've been thinking recently when lurking that I ought to take a release sometime but my timezone does not align with the channel's peak activity very well
21:36 [Coke] Check out the release docs in the star repo.
21:37 [Coke] https://github.com/rakudo/star/blob/​master/tools/star/release-guide.pod
21:37 masak ++avuserow
21:38 avuserow I don't want to sign up formally since I'm afraid I'll forget or get busy :\
21:38 avuserow (for a main rakudo release I mean)
21:38 masak nodnod
21:38 masak all in due time :)
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22:06 masak 'night, #perl6
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22:07 japhb Good night, masak.
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