Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-07-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:43 hoelzro safe travels lizmat
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01:45 dalek roast/S26-WHY: c89e17c | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-documentation/why-leading.t:
01:45 dalek roast/S26-WHY: Name WHEREFORE tests
01:45 dalek roast/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c89e17c8d5
01:45 dalek roast/S26-WHY: 9194bd1 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-TODO:
01:45 dalek roast/S26-WHY: Notes?
01:45 dalek roast/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9194bd1d29
01:45 dalek roast/S26-WHY: dd2f54e | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-documentation/why-leading.t:
01:45 dalek roast/S26-WHY: Fix up WHEREFORE tests
01:45 dalek roast/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/dd2f54e8e9
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02:17 dalek perl6-bench: 998e4b5 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
02:17 dalek perl6-bench: Tune and simplify noise avoidance in analyze
02:17 dalek perl6-bench:
02:17 dalek perl6-bench: The previous formula was strangely complex (why use twice an
02:17 dalek perl6-bench: arbitrary number as the threshold, instead of just doubling the
02:17 dalek perl6-bench: arbitrary number and using that?) and also as jnthn++ discovered
02:17 dalek perl6-bench: too conservative (still too much noise on some platforms).  Drop
02:17 dalek perl6-bench: the 2x multiplier and increase the min_time value by 10x for an
02:17 dalek perl6-bench: effective 5x threshold increase overall.
02:17 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/998e4b5a98
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02:39 dalek roast: 5754fb2 | coke++ | S03-operators/bit.t:
02:39 dalek roast: parrot fudge recent failure RT #122310
02:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5754fb2614
02:39 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=122310
02:59 [Coke] how can I fudge a throws_like? if one of the 2 sub tests fails, the test fails. if I todo the test, I get a todo passes.
03:00 [Coke] (if you know the answer, please fudge the throws like for #114134 in S32-exceptions/misc.t for parrot only. :)
03:00 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=114134
03:00 dalek roast: 7b94f55 | coke++ | S04-phasers/init.t:
03:00 dalek roast: parrot fudge recent failure RT #122311
03:00 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7b94f555c3
03:00 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=122311
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03:06 dalek roast: 8032fc0 | coke++ | S06-routine-modifiers/lvalue-subroutines.t:
03:06 dalek roast: parrot fudge recent failure RT #122313
03:06 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8032fc0451
03:06 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=122313
03:09 [Coke] It would be great if someone with a copy of rakudo.jvm could fudge the remaining test failures for the release coming up. (I cannot build rakudo.jvm... until I get my new 16G laptop, muahahahah)
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03:40 hoelzro [Coke]: I'll give it a look
03:42 hoelzro [Coke]: umm...how exactly does one fudge test failures? =D
03:46 * hoelzro looks at [Coke]'s commits
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: 3e4bba0 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-documentation/why-trailing.t:
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: Add WHEREFORE tests for trailing comments
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3e4bba09bf
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: ac7bc2f | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-documentation/why-both.t:
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: Add WHEREFORE tests to why-both
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ac7bc2f97e
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: 55b8914 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-documentation/why-both.t:
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: Cover classes and methods for why-both
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/55b8914861
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: 8da43b1 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-TODO:
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: Remove WHEREFORE from TODO list
03:57 dalek roast/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8da43b161c
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04:07 dalek roast/S26-WHY: 8a378a1 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S26-documentation/why- (3 files):
04:07 dalek roast/S26-WHY: Make sure trailing comments on parameters only affect that param
04:07 dalek roast/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8a378a1c64
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04:22 hoelzro I see the test failures, but I don't know which I should fudge and which I should leave be
04:22 hoelzro I'll ask again when the Europeans are up!
04:28 dalek perl6-bench: 36f0d5e | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | microbenchmarks.pl:
04:28 dalek perl6-bench: Add int -> str conversion + non-constant concat tests
04:28 dalek perl6-bench:
04:28 dalek perl6-bench: This not only tests performance of int -> str conversion (a common
04:28 dalek perl6-bench: operation), but allows the testing of concatenation with non-constant
04:28 dalek perl6-bench: terms (because jnthn++ recently optimized the constant case, which
04:28 dalek perl6-bench: is a valuable common case for users, but testing only the constant
04:28 dalek perl6-bench: variant skews overall performance results).
04:28 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/36f0d5e07a
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05:49 masak morning, #perl6
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06:10 sergot o/
06:10 sergot morning
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06:17 Timbus oh, shifting from an empty list is an exception in perl 6
06:24 Timbus oh. okay, its just a fail object that i was mishandling. eh
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06:29 dalek perl6-bench: 1766bbb | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | microbenchmarks.pl:
06:29 dalek perl6-bench: Add split_string_{constant,regex} tests
06:29 dalek perl6-bench:
06:29 dalek perl6-bench: Add tests for splitting a long string using a constant string and a
06:29 dalek perl6-bench: simple regex.  Also fix trim_string's work estimate to match the O(n**2)
06:29 dalek perl6-bench: estimates used for the split tests.
06:29 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/1766bbb929
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07:52 * liztormato has boarded and should see you all on the other side of the pond
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08:13 sergot m: say buf8.new("Ł".encode);
08:13 camelia rakudo-moar 9e15cc: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<c5 81>␤»
08:13 sergot m: say buf8.new("L".encode);
08:13 camelia rakudo-moar 9e15cc: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<4c>␤»
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08:36 moritz m: say "Ł".perl
08:36 camelia rakudo-moar 9e15cc: OUTPUT«"Ł"␤»
08:36 moritz m: say "Ł".encode.perl
08:36 camelia rakudo-moar 9e15cc: OUTPUT«utf8.new(197, 129)␤»
08:37 moritz m: say "Ł".encode
08:37 camelia rakudo-moar 9e15cc: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<c5 81>␤»
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09:02 dalek ecosystem: 752af38 | sergot++ | META.list:
09:02 dalek ecosystem: Encode added
09:02 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/752af38e7d
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10:04 ren1us apparently if you run qqx{perl6} from the interpreter, it hangs so hard that even ctrl+C does nothing.
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10:08 moritz well, it tries to read from STDIN
10:10 ren1us i can see why it's misbehaving, but i feel like then going on to disregard what's essentially a de-facto kill signal in the original stdin is a bit much, even though that particular scenario is dirty in its own right
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10:51 moritz ren1us: agreed
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11:24 eiro hello #perl6
11:25 moritz eiro/
11:29 masak \eiro
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11:34 carlin if a MoarVM change will affect how perl6 code works, should that be mentioned in rakudo's changelog?
11:34 carlin specifically file creation operations now give default permissions of 0666
11:34 carlin whereas in the previous release they were given something bizzare like 4777
11:34 * masak thinks it should
11:34 hoelzro morning #perl6
11:43 masak ahojelzro \o
11:46 carlin https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/290/files # pull req updating ChangeLog
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom: b2e65d8 | Carlin++ | docs/ChangeLog:
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom: Update ChangeLog with DateTime and file changes
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom:
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom: DateTime.new was changed
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom: MoarVM change affects file creation permissions
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b2e65d8278
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom: b62d3e9 | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #290 from carbin/patch-1
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom:
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom: Update ChangeLog with DateTime and file changes
11:47 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b62d3e9bed
11:49 timotimo the changelog should say something about tr///
11:49 masak well volunteered!
11:50 timotimo not sure how to spell the change, though
11:50 carlin moritz++ # thanks :)
11:50 hoelzro does fudging still need to be done for the JVM?
11:51 dalek rakudo/nom: 2cf53c7 | timo++ | docs/ChangeLog:
11:51 dalek rakudo/nom: mention tr/// by psch++
11:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2cf53c7fdf
11:52 eiro is there a way to write something like "match as many <attr> as possible, no matter the LTM rule" ?
11:52 eiro https://github.com/eiro/p6​-lab/blob/master/sexml.p6
11:53 timotimo please be more specific?
11:53 eiro i'm working on this and the pb is <content>* can match the same than <attr>*
11:53 eiro (line 6)
11:53 betterworld maybe if you use "regex" instead of token and rule
11:54 eiro so my attributes are slurped in the <content> match
11:55 eiro betterworld, worth :) because the :lang{fr} is slurped
11:55 timotimo token is like regex, except :ratchet, rule is like token except :sigspace
11:55 timotimo eiro: maybe you want to have data have <!before ':'>?
11:56 * eiro dive back in the doc. thanks for the clue, timotimo
11:57 betterworld timotimo: yeah, so without :ratchet there will be more backtracking, which seems to be what eiro asked for :)
11:57 timotimo that could help, aye
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11:59 * eiro really have to understand backtracking control
11:59 moritz more backtracking is rarely the right answer
12:00 moritz the right answer is usually to factor out common prefixes into a single rule
12:01 eiro the problem here is that data can accept almost everything
12:01 eiro (as prefix)
12:02 timotimo except ':' :)
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12:04 moritz so, <-[:]>* ?
12:05 timotimo i think only the very first character mustn't be a :
12:05 moritz or possibly <-[:]>*?
12:05 moritz or <-[:]>.*?
12:05 timotimo it seems like the data begins with [':' <ident>] % [\s+]
12:06 timotimo er, i mean
12:06 timotimo before the data, you want to match*
12:08 moritz missing quantifier?
12:08 moritz on the LHR of the %
12:08 eiro right! actually  ':'\S | <-[:]>
12:09 eiro ooh... i'm reading the timotimo's subrule
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12:18 masak .u >
12:18 yoleaux U+003E GREATER-THAN SIGN [Sm] (>)
12:21 hoelzro wow, spectests take a long time on the JVM
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12:30 sergot .u ½
12:30 yoleaux U+00BD VULGAR FRACTION ONE HALF [No] (½)
12:30 sergot .u ¾
12:30 yoleaux U+00BE VULGAR FRACTION THREE QUARTERS [No] (¾)
12:31 jnthn Those numbers. They're so tasteless.
12:32 hoelzro is there any reason that GrammarHOW is not Documenting?  I feel like a Grammar should also be able to have a WHY
12:33 jnthn hoelzro: It is, by inheriting from ClassHOW, iirc.
12:33 masak jnthn: you probably know this, but that sense of "vulgar" essentially means "common" ;)
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12:34 timotimo so "vulgar speech" is distasteful because it's used by the "common folk" who are, of course, plebian, uneducated and in general not to be spoken to except for by your underlings?
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12:36 jnthn No shit.
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12:36 jnthn Of course, by now I'm looking up the etymology of vulgar fraction... :)
12:36 arnsholt In Latin, "vulgus" is "the crowd" or "the masses" =)
12:37 jnthn Ah... "Vulgar turned up first in English in the fourteenth century and then referred to something that was in common or general use or something customary or done as a matter of everyday practice. There was nothing disapproving about it."
12:37 timotimo ah
12:37 * masak enjoyed http://blog.plover.com/prog​/perl/barewords-setup.html and its follow-up
12:38 jnthn And wasn't until the 17th century it started to take on the other meaning.
12:38 masak jnthn: similarly, a lot of plants have "vulgaris" in their name, not because they are bad, but because they are common.
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12:39 Urgoster perl6: say 3;
12:40 camelia rakudo-jvm 2cf53c: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
12:40 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 2cf53c, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«3␤»
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12:42 Ven o/
12:52 hoelzro jnthn: oh, really?
12:52 hoelzro hmm
12:52 hoelzro oh, I think I understand why my documentating code doesn't work for it, then
12:52 hoelzro does nqp::getattr respect inheritance?
12:52 timotimo you always have to supply the class that initially declared the attribute
12:52 timotimo thus, the answer is Mu :)
12:53 hoelzro ah ha
12:53 hoelzro bummer
12:53 hoelzro but that's why my thing doesn't work for grammars
12:53 timotimo huh?
12:53 jnthn Why are you doing getattr?
12:54 timotimo if you nqp::getattr($the_thing, ClassHOW, '$!why') should work even if $the_thing is a GrammarHOW
12:54 hoelzro hang on, I'll pull up the code
12:54 jnthn Don't violate encapsulation of meta-objects; add a method.
12:54 timotimo mhm
12:55 hoelzro https://github.com/hoelzro/rakudo/blo​b/S26-WHY/src/Perl6/Actions.nqp#L2081
12:55 hoelzro hmm
12:56 hoelzro I'm sure this branch will undergo some rigorous criticism once I'm done with it =)
12:56 timotimo that'll just mean your next branch will be better :3
12:56 jnthn yeah, add a method, don't getattr it
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12:58 hoelzro ok
12:58 hoelzro I'll do that
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13:09 Ven should [] only accept operators that are monoids ?
13:10 Ven (in [+], [*]. to have the monoid's zero element)
13:11 Ven m: say [//] 0, 1, 2;
13:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2cf53c: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:11 Ven m: say [//] ();
13:11 camelia rakudo-moar 2cf53c: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
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13:18 Ven Now I'm wondering. Is perl 6 a racket dialect, or is racket a perl 6 slang ?
13:19 Ven .oO( #lang perl6, and now watch the world burn ) (sorry, I'm doing some racket macros/templates, and they look really cool, and I wonder in what sense could we bring them on for p6)
13:20 * [Coke] sits on a presentation about AWS and wonders if we could be taking advantage.
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13:22 timotimo amazon web services?
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13:28 moritz Awesome Web Shit?
13:33 masak Applications With Snowmen?
13:35 jnthn Asteroids With Snowmen? :)
13:36 moritz Altruists With Swords? :-)
13:36 * jnthn still counts the comet/snowman thing as one of his favorite Rakudo parsing bugs :)
13:38 * masak .oO( benefit humanity with your swords, altruists! )
13:38 * Ven kinda WATs, but doesn't mind the snowmen
13:38 Ven ok, google was accurate
13:45 arnsholt How did that parsing bug happen though?
13:45 arnsholt Some kind of Unicode-bug, I suppose?
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13:48 jnthn I think so :)
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13:50 Ven .oO( I've fixed so many bugs, I can't even remember what the snowmen did )
13:52 masak mostly the snowmen act as comic relief for the main plot with the two sisters.
13:57 masak srsly though, I don't think the snowman-comet parsing bug ever got an explanation. at least I never heard one.
13:57 masak it also didn't really get a specific fix -- an older parsing engine just got swapped for a newer one.
13:57 PerlJam masak: let it go, man.  Let it go.
13:57 masak :P
13:58 carlin it's one of things where you're better off not knowing
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13:59 masak I dunno. at least it would have made for an interesting blog post :)
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14:05 muraiki Ven: yeah, racket macros are really nice
14:07 muraiki here's a neat article about creating a text adventure DSL using syntax-rule: http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2012/1/1448​09-creating-languages-in-racket/fulltext
14:07 Ven s#langs :P
14:08 PerlJam Hmm ... that feels very familiar.
14:08 PerlJam almost masakish. :)
14:09 masak ok, that piqued my interest.
14:09 * masak looks
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14:16 Ven muraiki++ # helping me to get masak++ to get a look ;)
14:17 muraiki :D
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14:29 hoelzro I think the reason I avoided methods for my S26 stuff is I didn't want to "contaminate" the meta object API
14:30 hoelzro is there a way to remove methods on meta objects before handing control over to the script/repl?
14:31 jnthn hoelzro: That's the wrong way to see it.
14:31 jnthn hoelzro: The point of having a meta-object API is that you can programatically construct the things the compiler constructs.
14:32 hoelzro oh
14:32 hoelzro I see
14:32 hoelzro that...makes a lot of sense, actually
14:32 hoelzro I wonder, then
14:32 hoelzro if instead of explicitly fixing the WHEREFORE for a WHY
14:32 hoelzro I should fix it in the WHY accessor
14:33 hoelzro because if a user were told, "oh yeah, you have to call obj.fix_wherefore", that would be kind of dumb.
14:34 Ven I can define a lazy function macro in racket in 7 lines. Let's try with p6 now ..
14:34 jnthn I'm not intimately familiar with the problem you're working on, but it sounds like a better design to have it that way :)
14:36 hoelzro jnthn: I'm just fixing up Rakudo to comply with S26
14:38 Ven Well, I'm not sure macros in their current state can do what I'd like them to, hmm.
14:39 PerlJam Ven: careful ... you might accidentally volunteer to fix them  ;)
14:39 Ven PerlJam: I'd probably do it, if I were in holidays, and had more free time on my hands.
14:40 Ven well, I can write a `lazy` sub easily enough and `my &a =` it, but it's not really the same,.
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15:32 FROGGS everybody: please update the changelog if needed! today is release day
15:34 hoelzro \o/
15:34 hoelzro FROGGS: do the upcoming changes to #= merit mention?
15:34 FROGGS hmmmm
15:35 FROGGS can we put it in when we know what happened to #=? :o)
15:35 hoelzro I'm hoping to have them ready for 2014.08
15:35 hoelzro #= means "leading doc" at the moment
15:35 hoelzro it's changing to mean "trailing doc"
15:35 hoelzro "use #| if you want leading docs"
15:36 FROGGS let's do that when it is done, so ppl an play with it... okay?
15:36 PerlJam that seems backwards to me btw.
15:36 FROGGS we usually do not mention upcoming changes
15:36 PerlJam at least huffman-wise
15:37 PerlJam (or maybe I just like #= more then #| :)
15:38 carlin japhb_ recommended a couple of days ago that it be mentioned in the changelogs as a deprecation warning
15:39 hoelzro ok
15:39 FROGGS is something already deprecated?
15:39 hoelzro someone recommended mentioning it a few days, so I thought I'd bring it up
15:40 PerlJam IF it generates a deprecation warning, that might deserve a mention.
15:40 FROGGS because I don't like to announce something that might change a little due to upcoming discussions
15:40 PerlJam If it doesn't, then I'd save it to the next release
15:40 PerlJam (just MHO)
15:40 FROGGS PerlJam: mine too
15:41 hoelzro should we make it generate one for 2014.07?
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15:41 hoelzro speaking of discussions, should I mention this on perl6-compilers?
15:42 PerlJam hoelzro: first off ... how?  The construct will still exist, just that its semantics will change.  How do you "deprecate" semantics?
15:42 hoelzro I always assumed it would be ok, since it would be updating Rakudo to be in line with the spec
15:42 hoelzro hmm
15:42 hoelzro good point
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16:41 japhb_ Re: #= deprecation, my concern was mostly that we've been using it and producing sample code with the current usage for a while.  Which means that I suspect a fair number of people may have USAGE info that points to the wrong multis after the change, and that will surprise people.
16:42 japhb_ (I know I will.)
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17:13 wolfram_ Please hlep me -- what perl version was it that changed the meaning of 'print(two + two == five ? "true" : "false")' in the 17th century? (http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2014-07-17#i_9038417)
17:14 huf :D
17:14 huf wolfram_: wait, is that a serious question?
17:15 xinming_ joined #perl6
17:15 wolfram_ Only if you can provide firsthand experience from that time :-)
17:16 huf i've been alive for millions of years dude
17:17 wolfram_ (Couldn't resist to mogrify from useless lurker to useless contributor for that...)
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17:25 dalek roast: 32ca69c | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t:
17:25 dalek roast: mark flapping test as TODO
17:25 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/32ca69cdbb
17:28 timotimo dalek: that'll turn an OK/NOT OK test into an OK #TODO/NOT OK #TODO test
17:28 timotimo er... i meant FROGGS -^
17:28 timotimo is that an improvement?
17:29 FROGGS timotimo: the spectest does not fail now, so I'd say yes
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17:29 timotimo OK
17:31 muraiki joined #perl6
17:32 timotimo walk &
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17:52 [Coke] TODOing flapping tests is not helpful.
17:52 [Coke] also: do not fudge tests without a ticket if possible.
17:52 masak +1
17:53 masak maybe flapping tests should be isolated/quarantined into their own directory instead?
17:53 [Coke] here's why it's not helpful. what happens when this test passes for someone - shoudl they untodo it?
17:53 [Coke] How can they tell if it's fixed, or if it flapped?
17:53 FROGGS tadzik / moritz / colomon / xfix: https://github.com/tadzik/Bailador/pull/11 # please merge in case you have commit bit
17:54 FROGGS [Coke]: at least on my box that test passes like four times out of five, so one can see that there is something going on...
17:55 FROGGS what I don't like about skipping them (with a ticket), is that they just are ticketed and forgotten then
17:56 FROGGS TAP has no proper way to mark something flapping, so I am not sure what is better than TODO-ing it
17:57 dalek specs: 635fb4c | coke++ | S99-glossary.pod:
17:57 dalek specs: Define "flap"
17:57 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/635fb4cb62
17:57 [Coke] FROGGS: you leave it open, and mark it with a ticket.
17:57 masak FROGGS: we don't need to mark it up with TAP. we can mark it up any way we want.
17:58 FROGGS [Coke]: what do you mean by 'leave it open', what is 'it' in this sentence?
17:58 [Coke] "ticketed and forgotten" - better to be ticketed and fudged and forgotten than just fudged and forgotten. (there are nearly 900 fudges for rakudo that are not ticketed, "unspecced", or "NYI" at the moment)
17:58 [Coke] do not fudge the test.
17:59 [Coke] either skip it, or leave it running.
17:59 [Coke] in either case, it needs a ticket.
17:59 FROGGS [Coke]: I will not release with failing spectests
17:59 FROGGS I am about to ticket it right now
17:59 [Coke] then skip it. I don't want a release with passing todos.
17:59 FROGGS k
18:00 [Coke] "all tests pass " >> "some todo'd tests pass" >> "any test failed"
18:01 [Coke] Should continue to include "flap" somewhere in the fudge directive so it's not blindly auto-unfudged later.
18:01 [Coke] FROGGS++
18:03 masak consensus++
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18:03 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 0cb7ef5 | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
18:03 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
18:03 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/0cb7ef58b9
18:03 dalek perl6-roast-data: 1e09f7d | coke++ | / (5 files):
18:03 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:03 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/1e09f7dcd2
18:04 [Coke] I see 21 JVM failures, 28 moar failures (you skipped bytes_suppy - echo server failed on the daily run today), and list/uniq aborted 26 tests.
18:05 [Coke] there is one failure in parrot which is a leftover question I had from yesterday: how do you todo a -subtest-
18:05 [Coke] 2 subests, one failing: todo the test, you get a todo passed; leave it alone, you get a failure.
18:06 [Coke] I hate to skip it, but it seems the cleanest answer.
18:08 dalek roast: 121df26 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t:
18:08 dalek roast: skip flapping test, see RT #122318
18:08 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/121df26f48
18:08 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=122318
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18:10 FROGGS okay, star-m also passes here
18:10 FROGGS star-p seems problematic
18:11 [Coke] S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t 4 - Echo server
18:11 [Coke] S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t 6 - bytes_supply
18:11 [Coke] S32-list/uniq.t aborted 26 test(s)
18:11 [Coke] those are the failures in the daily run, fwiw.
18:11 FROGGS yeah
18:12 FROGGS I've not seen these fails (except IO-Async #6) on my box
18:12 [Coke] (for moar)
18:12 timotimo i ended up not really walking much. instead i got to pet a kittehs tummeh
18:13 FROGGS timotimo: a what?
18:14 [Coke] FROGGS: http://cutearoo.com/wp-conten​t/uploads/2011/07/Kitten5.jpg
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18:14 FROGGS what is a tummeh?
18:15 [Coke] "tummy"
18:15 * masak guesses "stomach"
18:15 nwc10 I think tummeh is to ketteh as tummy is to kitten
18:15 [Coke] yes, that
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18:18 FROGGS ahh :o)
18:18 FROGGS well yes, that's certainly better than walking :o)
18:19 * [Coke] needs to write a jabber bot, and wonders if he could finagle it to be in perl6.
18:19 huf you mean welkehng?
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18:21 retupmoca [Coke]: I have a Net::XMPP module that should handle the basics (theoretically), although it doesn't handle roster/contacts for you at all
18:21 retupmoca [Coke]: I'd be happy to develop it more if you open issues for features/bugs
18:22 retupmoca it'll even support TLS as soon as I figure out how to upgrade a standard socket to a SSL/TLS connection
18:30 [Coke] secure connection might be required; checking...
18:31 retupmoca secure connection can be done if the server supports the old-style ssl connection in addition to STARTTLS
18:31 retupmoca I just don't know how to do STARTTLS with the current OpenSSL bindings
18:31 [Coke] config.setSASLAuthenticationEnabled(true); // all the info I have at the moment.
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18:41 retupmoca sasl is separate from SSL
18:41 retupmoca I think Net::XMPP only supports one SASL method right now, though
18:42 retupmoca don't know what methods your server supports
18:49 [Coke] me neither; I had a java bot that just connected and echo'd, that's dea now, need to figure out what happened.
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19:01 carlin there are some failing tests in S32-temporal/local.t but they won't automatically run on most systems
19:03 FROGGS m: say nqp::gethllsym('perl6', 'P6EX');
19:03 camelia rakudo-moar 2cf53c: OUTPUT«("X::Assignment::RO" => sub (Any $typename = { ... }) { #`(Sub+{<anon>}|139948762856144) ... }, "X::ControlFlow::Return" => sub () { #`(Sub+{<anon>}|139948762855928) ... }, "X::Multi::Ambiguous" => sub (Any $dispatcher, @ambiguous) { #`(Sub+{<anon>}|139948…»
19:03 FROGGS p: say nqp::gethllsym('perl6', 'P6EX');
19:03 camelia rakudo-parrot 2cf53c: OUTPUT«("X::Assignment::RO" => sub (Any $typename = { ... }) { #`(Sub+{<anon>}|1956344805137267409) ... }, "X::ControlFlow::Return" => sub () { #`(Sub+{<anon>}|1956344805143578829) ... }, "X::Multi::Ambiguous" => sub (Any $dispatcher, @ambiguous) { #`(Sub+{<ano…»
19:03 FROGGS hmmm....
19:07 [Coke] carlin: thanks for the reminder.
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19:09 [Coke] ah, that's not an env var, that's an evil hardcoded linux only hack.
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19:11 [Coke] carlin - it would be nice if you could open a ticket reminding us to make those tests a little more amenable to actually getting run.
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19:35 [Coke] .seen donaldh
19:35 yoleaux I saw donaldh 4 Jul 2014 14:16Z in #perl6: * donaldh imagines some kind of temporal instability
19:35 [Coke] .ask donaldh - can you add some notes to the README for perl6-eclipse-plugin about how to install it in eclipse?
19:35 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to donaldh.
19:40 pecastro joined #perl6
19:46 [Coke] retupmoca: do you support connecting via an http proxy?
19:47 retupmoca [Coke]: Not directly; but you can pass in an already connected socket and it'll use that
19:48 retupmoca [Coke]: If you're using a SOCKS proxy, there's a Net::SOCKS module I've built that you can use to make a socket to pass in
19:51 vendethiel- .seen pmichaud
19:51 yoleaux I saw pmichaud 19 Jun 2014 22:06Z in #perl6: <pmichaud> moving there
19:55 Ven joined #perl6
20:03 * retupmoca just realized he hasn't written any tests or docs for Net::XMPP
20:03 retupmoca I suppose that's the first thing I should improve
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20:12 dalek roast: 7ab6b34 | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2011-day24.t:
20:12 dalek roast: adding advent 2011 day 24
20:12 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7ab6b3400e
20:16 pecastro joined #perl6
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20:38 dalek roast: f271d8c | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2011-day24.t:
20:38 dalek roast: fixed TAP
20:38 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f271d8c484
20:39 TimToady well, I am now allowed to read a little, so I can at least drop in and say "hi"
20:39 yoleaux 11 Jul 2014 20:07Z <pippo> TimToady: I hope all goes well with your eyes. Best wishes.
20:41 FROGGS TimToady: hi :o)
20:41 masak hi TimToady
20:41 FROGGS TimToady: did it went well?
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20:43 TimToady pretty well, I ended up with three different detachments, so they just riveted my retina all the way around, and it seems to be holding nicely
20:43 [Coke] TimToady: Eye can't believe you didn't pun that up.
20:43 TimToady I see...
20:43 [Coke] hugme: hug TimToady
20:43 * hugme hugs TimToady
20:43 * FROGGS groans a little... but smiles
20:44 TimToady the only bad news is that I apparently have some nerve damage to part of my macula, which may or may not recover
20:44 FROGGS eww
20:44 FROGGS that means your eyesight is LTA?
20:45 timotimo TimToady: o/
20:45 timotimo hope you're getting better soon!
20:45 TimToady so I have a spot right below my fovea (as I view it) that's looks kind of like a leech, with its tail extending over to my optic disk where the nerve comes in
20:45 FROGGS or does that mean that it is exhausting to read/look?
20:45 FROGGS ahh
20:45 TimToady They told me not to read for the first week
20:45 TimToady didn't want things sloshing around too much
20:46 [Coke] we can probably find an intern to ready you the backscroll...
20:46 jnap best of luck TimToady, my best friend has been losing his eyesight for the past 10 years in drips and drabs, and all I ca say is that its great we live in an era of affordable large and bright monitors
20:46 FROGGS yeah... understandable
20:46 TimToady inside is currently about 70% gas and 30% water
20:46 TimToady jnap: well, fortunately I still have a good eye too :)
20:47 TimToady I think I'd still be able to read with the bad eye if I look below the line
20:47 jnap that will help, just is a nice excuse to always make other people drive
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20:47 TimToady but can't tell anything refractive currently, since air and water are so different
20:47 [Coke] TimToady: OOOH, do you have an eye patch?
20:47 TimToady well, it's "air", with some percentage of perfluro propane
20:48 TimToady I did the first few nights :)
20:48 TimToady so, Aye!!!
20:48 TimToady jnap: well, actually, I like to dirve
20:48 TimToady er, drive
20:48 * TimToady blames his bad eye :)
20:49 TimToady looks straight down is odd because it's sloshy
20:49 TimToady since that's where the puddle is
20:50 masak tonight's little group theory fun: https://gist.github.com/masak/0c4496b90e2aebf98062
20:50 TimToady oh, and also my iris seems to be stick open for now, probably just overdid on the atropine,
20:50 masak I have a very weird effect wherein the last block in that gist doesn't seem to run. the rest works fine, though.
20:50 TimToady but the cool thing about is that I don't have PERL :)
20:50 TimToady (Pupils Equal and Reactive to Light)
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: 2647500 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/parrot/guts/bind.c:
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: [parrot] throw typed exeption X::TypeCheck::Binding
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: Only JVM throws still an X::AdHoc.
20:52 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2647500744
20:53 FROGGS PERL doesn't sound as if it was a bad thing
20:54 TimToady it's a good thing, but I ain't got it at the moment
20:54 FROGGS ahh
20:55 TimToady I think I got an extra dose of atropine because a different doctor looked at my eye earlier in the day of the surgery
20:55 TimToady so it might stay that way another week
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20:56 TimToady is likely to get better though, unlike the other neuropathy, which I deem to be permanent probably, but then I'll be happily surprised if it isn't :)
20:57 TimToady maybe I can be a guinea pig for retinal regeneration someday, which would be cool
20:59 segomos what do you have?
20:59 segomos or why were they looking at your eye?
21:00 * TimToady had two emergency eye surgeries last week
21:00 TimToady multiply detached retina
21:00 TimToady (no apparent cause, other than just my bad eye getting worse...)
21:00 segomos ouch
21:01 segomos was it repaired aside from the atropine OD?
21:01 TimToady they saved most of my retina, but the side effect of surgery is the blind spot below my fovea, about 8° high and about 20° wide
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21:01 TimToady could have been from any number of reasons
21:03 TimToady a yanked nerve either before or during reattachment, or a misfired laser shot, or blockage of a blood vessel, or just optical nerve damage from pressure variations
21:03 TimToady I'm sure the doctor can think of another ten or twenty possible reasons
21:03 segomos i had a guy that worked for me that had some kind of spindle problem and he sees a big floating "psychedelic spot" in the middle of his vision until that eye eventually goes blind. i hope your spot goes away, i know his causes him a lot of stress
21:04 TimToady mine is quite unlikely to get worse, since it's likely one-shot damage
21:05 TimToady they're actually more worried about my cornea now, since it greatly increases the chance of rejection of my transplant to have immune cells crawling all over the place, and my eye is obviously rather enflamed still
21:05 segomos sorry to hear, vision is the only good sensory item i have left :-(
21:05 TimToady er, inflamed
21:06 segomos how long did they say until it's gone?
21:06 segomos or until they know
21:06 huf even if this all goes to shit and you end up a pirate, you'll still have one functioning eye, right?
21:06 TimToady until the inflammation is gone?  it's already getting better
21:06 TimToady but my cornea Dr wants me to keep putting steroids in my eye for a month
21:06 segomos right or left
21:07 TimToady my right is the unlucky one
21:07 TimToady the left on has only had a cataract
21:08 TimToady so now I've pretty much had something go wrong with every part of my right eye; I guess the rear of my eye was feeling left out, so it popped both the retina and optic nerve to catch up to the front of my eye
21:09 masak if anyone could confirm that the last block of https://gist.github.com/masak/0c4496b90e2aebf98062 indeed doesn't execute for them either, that'd help -- kthx
21:09 huf you could still develop a rocky horror picture show midnight screening in the middle...
21:09 huf that could be distracting
21:09 TimToady but the parts of my macula that didn't suffer nerve damage were also spared from the detachment, so I should have some fine vision on the upper side of my macula
21:10 masak I don't see why it wouldn't, but it doesn't here. or rather, it runs until the if statement, and then just disappears.
21:10 masak I think we have a runtime bug of some kind.
21:10 TimToady the detached parts still seem to have some vision too, though time will tell how much comes back
21:11 TimToady well, I've probably overdone already for a first session of reading, so I'll go rest more, and find another audio book (just finish Citizen of the Galaxy by RAH)
21:11 TimToady afk &
21:13 segomos masak:   which p6?
21:15 masak segomos: https://gist.github.com/masak/0c4496b90e2aebf98062
21:16 segomos i've update yours, i ran it with moar and jvm
21:16 segomos i updated your gist*  with the output of both -m and -j
21:17 masak huh.
21:17 masak mine doesn't hang, it exits.
21:17 segomos i'm building most recent moar/jvm right now, i'm about 2 weeks behind i think
21:18 masak I'm on 2014.06-62-gc55942f.
21:18 masak m: say "you?"
21:18 camelia rakudo-moar 2cf53c: OUTPUT«you?␤»
21:18 masak ok, so I'm not on latest either.
21:18 segomos 014.06-17-gf2060ea
21:20 masak ok, by inserting print statements everywhere, I now conclude that the code just disappears somewhere in the innermost `for` loop in &isometric. it enters an iteration, but then just disappears into nothing.
21:20 masak I think I have a live bug here; I'll try to golf it.
21:22 * masak rebuilds his Rakudo first
21:23 segomos i'm still 'make'ing
21:24 masak did we have a Rakudo release today? I haven't been following 100% -- maybe I missed when the release happened?
21:25 masak FROGGS?
21:25 FROGGS masak: it is today, aye
21:25 masak ah, but not released yet.
21:25 FROGGS I am trying to fix one last thing before cutting the release
21:26 masak ah; ok.
21:27 masak good news: the program runs much better on latest Rakudo :)
21:27 masak I don't think it hangs -- it just runs for very long.
21:29 segomos how did you build so quickly?
21:29 segomos or did you just do rakudo?
21:29 masak brand new laptop. SSD. :)
21:30 masak no, all of it. I `git clean -xdf`'d first.
21:30 segomos ahh i have a macbook pro with ssd that is just slow i guess :)
21:30 segomos your switches are faster than mine
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21:35 segomos masak: what run time are you looking at?
21:35 masak ooh, it finish'd.
21:35 segomos i've had one running for 4 or 5 minutes
21:35 masak yeah, it takes long.
21:35 segomos ok
21:35 masak there's an O(N!) in there.
21:36 segomos ah
21:36 * masak runs again and times his
21:36 masak anyway, everything works. najs.
21:36 segomos must optimize!
21:36 masak yeah -- suggestions welcome :)
21:36 segomos (kidding)
21:36 masak probably something can be improved in my algorithms.
21:36 segomos not really sure what this thing is doing
21:37 masak it's checking whether groups are isomorphic to each other.
21:37 segomos i just didn't see any `rm` or `deltree` type stuff
21:37 masak it does so "the hard way".
21:37 segomos ahh ic
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 1b01e7a | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Binder.java:
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: [jvm] throw typed exception X::TypeCheck::Binding
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: That means we have this now on all backends.
21:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1b01e7aff7
21:44 masak segomos: 8 minutes, 35 seconds.
21:45 segomos i'm timing mine now too
21:55 masak m: say [*] 2..8
21:55 camelia rakudo-moar 264750: OUTPUT«40320␤»
21:55 masak that's the number of iterations the second block runs.
21:56 segomos 9:52 for me
21:56 masak oh, better than I feared.
21:58 segomos i'm just impatient
21:59 masak :)
21:59 segomos wonder how well http::server::async works now
21:59 dalek rakudo/nom: 960f2a2 | (Tobias Leich)++ | docs/ChangeLog:
21:59 dalek rakudo/nom: more changelogs entries for 2014.07
21:59 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/960f2a27f2
22:01 dalek rakudo/nom: 18a496b | (Tobias Leich)++ | docs/ChangeLog:
22:01 dalek rakudo/nom: adjust wording of required parrot version
22:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/18a496b396
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22:13 dalek rakudo/nom: df269df | (Tobias Leich)++ | docs/announce/2014.07.md:
22:13 dalek rakudo/nom: add announcement for 2014.07
22:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/df269df1e7
22:13 dalek rakudo/nom: 6a2ab39 | (Tobias Leich)++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
22:13 dalek rakudo/nom: move current release downwards
22:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6a2ab39352
22:13 masak \o/
22:18 dalek nqp: d181feb | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
22:18 dalek nqp: bump VERSION to 2014.07
22:18 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d181feb0e7
22:23 thou FROGGS++ # Thanks for the release!
22:23 FROGGS not yet done :o)
22:23 masak it ain't over until the fat Wikipedia article sings.
22:23 thou :)
22:24 thou Let's say I'm cheering, distractedly, from the sidelines.
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22:29 * masak cheers, too
22:29 masak FROGGS: good luck with le release.
22:29 masak 'night, #perl6
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22:36 * lizmat arrived in Portland uneventfully, rather differently from another flight leaving from Amsterdam around the same time :-(
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22:43 timotimo oh, the NativeCall bugfix that makes callbacks to different closures over the same code work properly is still missing on jvm and parrot, isn't it?
22:45 FROGGS I know nothing about such a fix
22:46 timotimo c511cb7
22:47 timotimo https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/c511cb7
22:48 FROGGS ahh, interesting
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23:01 dalek rakudo/nom: fb07f82 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
23:01 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump NQP revision
23:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fb07f824b1
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: f24e0eb | (Tobias Leich)++ | VERSION:
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump VERSION
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f24e0eb64b
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23:11 dalek rakudo/nom: 0aaba7e | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | t/spectest.data:
23:11 dalek rakudo/nom: Add some more advent tests
23:11 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0aaba7e03f
23:13 FROGGS I am going to continue tomorrow with the release process, I do not want to make mistakes just because I almost fall asleep
23:15 cogno joined #perl6
23:18 Guest20108 Reading the backlog. I note that the conversation between Mäsak and jhntn is not for the vulgum pecus
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