Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-07-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:08 colomon pretty sure "powerfulest" is not a word in English
00:08 vendethiel CAN BE
00:08 vendethiel :P
00:09 colomon …. but then carlin++ has already answered your question quite well.
00:09 colomon m: say (1..*).grep([+] *.comb == 7)[^20]
00:09 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4181␤  in sub  at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:17420␤  in block  at /tmp/RU2TZxAUFp:1␤␤»
00:10 colomon m: say (1..*).grep(([+] *.comb) == 7)[^20]
00:10 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4181␤  in sub  at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:17420␤  in block  at /tmp/yZmDxp6RM9:1␤␤»
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00:10 colomon m: say (1..*).grep(-> $i { ([+] $i.comb) == 7 })[^20]
00:10 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«7 16 25 34 43 52 61 70 106 115 124 133 142 151 160 205 214 223 232 241␤»
00:11 * colomon realizes that's not actually the sequence operator he used in there.
00:19 vendethiel oh, I actually already explained [OP], nice. Missing [\OP], though. I'll check what it does (array ?) later
00:23 timotimo [\|
00:23 timotimo m: [\~] <a b c d e f>
00:24 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: ( no output )
00:24 timotimo m: say [\~] <a b c d e f>
00:24 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef␤»
00:24 timotimo m: say [~] <a b c d e f>
00:24 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«abcdef␤»
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05:20 hoverboard ou
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05:42 lizmat_ #76456   # just checking
05:42 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=76456
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07:37 jiffies hello?
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08:18 nwc10 FROGGS_: unfortunately 5c191ee846461727a14f84cb1df75c0d35396c80 breaks NQP tests. Specifically t/nqp/19-file-ops.t (which no longer parses) and t/qregex/01-qregex.t
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08:50 nwc10 FROGGS_: unfortunately it also breaks the Rakudo build
08:50 nwc10 /home/nicholas/Sandpit/moar-san/bin/nqp-m --target=mbc --output=blib/Perl6/Grammar.moarvm --encoding=utf8 \ src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp
08:50 nwc10 Unrecognized regex modifier :my at line 903, near " $*POD_ALL"
08:51 nwc10 [backtrace.]
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08:56 itz_ I have perl6-m built OK as of 8668171 on linux
09:01 nwc10 itz_: using which nqp?
09:02 FROGGS[mobile] ewww
09:02 FROGGS[mobile] I'm moving it to a branch then...
09:03 nwc10 that seems best, if you don't have time to fix it "Real soon"
09:05 dalek nqp/charrange: e1b6829 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/Actions.nqp:
09:05 dalek nqp/charrange: use ignorecase in charrange on moar
09:05 dalek nqp/charrange: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e1b6829041
09:07 dalek nqp: 3b7496c | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/ (2 files):
09:07 dalek nqp: back to using enumcharlist instead of charrange on moar
09:07 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3b7496ca03
09:07 itz_ This is nqp version 2014.07-1-g6d4ea16 built on MoarVM version 2014.07
09:09 itz_ weird where does the nqp sha come from?
09:11 FROGGS_ 2014.07-1 is the first patch after the release
09:11 FROGGS_ this is before the charrange stuff happened
09:12 FROGGS_ itz_: your's is about 24 hours old: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commits/master
09:12 itz_ ah I assumed wrongly rakudobrew used the latest nqp
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09:37 masak antenoon, #perl6
09:37 masak * vendethiel thinks it's kinda weird that only :: hasn't received sigil invariance
09:37 vendethiel o/, masak
09:38 masak vendethiel: I think (a) :: has nothing to do with sigil invariance, and (b) the thing you're actually complaining about stems from a confusion about the function of the sigil, and its relation to the rest of the identifier.
09:39 vendethiel masak: it's probably that, for me, only the actual variable name (package-less) is the variable name, yet
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09:40 vendethiel (it's true that it's unrelated to sigil invariance, actually, it's just that I always expect it to be `A::$B`)
09:40 masak m: module Foo { our $pi = 3 }; say $Foo::pi
09:40 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«3␤»
09:41 masak vendethiel: thinking about it, I don't see any real reason it *couldn't* be Foo::$pi
09:41 masak but it would be a rather big break from Perl 5, for no really good reason.
09:41 masak also, it "feels" wrong, because the sigil has a function that doesn't rhyme well with being put in the middle like that.
09:42 masak the sigil is a noun marker.
09:42 vendethiel I admit I tend to struggle a bit with the module system. Hopefully it'll go better after I read my tutorial ... oh :-P
09:42 vendethiel masak: it feels "right" to me, because what we're marking is the variable itself, not the package
09:42 masak yes, I know.
09:43 masak that's subordinate to marking the whole term up-front, though.
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09:53 FROGGS_ nwc10: I was able to build nqp/rakudo on every backend right now...
09:55 FROGGS_ nqp tests also pass
09:55 FROGGS_ sorry for the noise
10:21 FROGGS_ and I've found one issue with the charrange branch:
10:21 FROGGS_ nqp-m -e 'say( "2" ~~ / <[2..3]> | b / )'
10:21 FROGGS_ Substring length (-4) cannot be negative
10:22 FROGGS_ an | alternation breaks it
10:25 zengargoyle i'm thinking Foo::$pi makes more sense now than $Foo::pi does, esp. when written Foo::<$pi>
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10:27 FROGGS_ we are moving the sigil the the last element in the compiler to look up a symbol in fact
10:27 FROGGS_ but I know that we're checking for things starting with a certain sigil in the grammar
10:27 FROGGS_ like in [[&foo]]
10:28 FROGGS_ that would work with [[&Foo::foo]] but not with [[Foo::&foo]]
10:29 FROGGS_ about the charrange... seems like setting the subtype breaks it :/ (I used it for ignorecase, but seems I can't do so)
10:31 * zengargoyle doesn't know what [[&foo]] means. :)  so many specs skimmed...
10:31 vendethiel zengargoyle: reduce with the foo sub
10:31 nwc10 FROGGS_: I left it running and I can confirm NQP, Rakudo and spectest PASS
10:32 FROGGS_ nwc10: thank you!
10:32 zengargoyle so subs vs operator takes an extra pair of []?
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10:52 masak m: sub foo($a, $b) { $a + $b }; say 2 [&foo] 3
10:52 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Error while compiling op ifnull: The 'ifnull' op expects two children␤»
10:52 masak m: sub foo($a, $b) { $a + $b }; say [[&foo]] 2, 3
10:52 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«5␤»
10:52 * masak submits LTA rakudobug
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11:21 colomon Hmmm, three new failing modules this morning: YAML, XXX, and Test-Corpus.  All fail in test stage.
11:22 colomon BTW, I don't know if anyone else has picked up on this -- we have 50-60 more passing modules than we had a year ago.
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11:30 colomon looking at YAML, it's Could not find t::Bridge in any of: /home/colomon/tools/yaml-pm6/lib, /home/colomon/tools/yaml-pm6/t where Bridge.pm is in t/
11:30 colomon hmmm…. is . no longer included in @INC?
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11:36 FROGGS_ colomon: it never was
11:36 FROGGS_ bbl
11:38 colomon FROGGS_: well, clearly something related has changed, because the module found Bridge.pm yesterday and doesn't today, and the module itself has not been changed in six months.
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11:59 psch good day, #perl6 o/
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12:02 moritz \o psch
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12:41 dalek ecosystem: 5a94e38 | Carlin++ | META.list:
12:41 dalek ecosystem: add Printing::Jdf
12:41 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/5a94e380b2
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13:23 psch m: say <<a\ b>>.perl; #`[[ RT #76120, but: ]] say "a\ b".perl # should backslash-space throw UnrecognizedSequence here?
13:23 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=76120
13:23 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«("a", "b")␤"a b"␤»
13:24 psch or does unspacing work in double quoted strings?
13:24 psch n: say "a\ b"
13:24 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«a b␤»
13:24 masak I'm of two minds.
13:25 masak (a) it doesn't mean anything, so it should be disallowed (to catch spurious uses which are probably indicative of something wrong)
13:25 masak (b) it's harmless, so we might as well silently interpret it as a literal space
13:25 masak I think (a) is what qq strings usually do.
13:25 masak m: say "a\qb"
13:25 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/St_MNH0Prnâ�¤Couldn't find terminator "â�¤at /tmp/St_MNH0Prn:1â�¤------> [32msay "a\qb"[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤        pref…»
13:26 masak huh.
13:34 psch huh indeed
13:34 psch m: say q|a\qq       |
13:34 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/4cOyPkFW4nâ�¤Couldn't find terminator |â�¤at /tmp/4cOyPkFW4n:1â�¤------> [32msay q|a\qq       |[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤    â€¦Â»
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13:40 masak I kind of expected it to go "there's no \q, silly!"
13:41 psch m: say "\qqq"
13:41 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/aPbiqbXAkIâ�¤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\q'â�¤at /tmp/aPbiqbXAkI:1â�¤------> [32msay "\qq[33mâ��[31mq"[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        prefix or termâ�¤      â€¦Â»
13:41 psch i suspect Grammar.nqp:4204 plays a part there
13:42 * masak looks
13:44 masak yes, probably.
13:44 masak but I had it as "q strings always let through things they don't recognize, qq strings are more strict"
13:44 masak I don't understand why Rakudo behaves as it does with the last three evals.
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13:59 psch m: say 'ab\qq"\x63"'
13:59 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«abc␤»
14:00 psch i think that means that broken cases of \qq have LTA errors?
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14:18 masak waitwait...
14:18 masak that's a *feature*?
14:18 masak is this in S02 somewhere?
14:20 psch "Intepolating into a single-quoted string"
14:20 * masak looks
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14:21 masak huh.
14:21 masak and it's from (at least) 2008.
14:21 masak ok.
14:21 masak anyway, I don't think it should affect qq strings in any way.
14:21 FROGGS_ yay, I think my charrange patch works on moar.... (needed also NFA tweaks)
14:22 FROGGS_ ohh, RT is back \o/
14:24 psch right.  so the question remains if '\ ' is meaningful in any way
14:25 masak did you use single quotes there deliberately?
14:25 psch yes, but wrongfully too :)
14:25 masak because I don't see backslash-space being problematic in single quotes at all :)
14:25 psch you're right of course, i meant "\ "
14:26 psch and it is meaningful right now as well, but it means " "
14:26 psch i can see the case in the original ticket as a bit more involved though, i.e. <<foo\ bar>>
14:27 psch that *could* mean <<foobar>>, if unspace works into extrapolation, but that doesn't happen currently
14:27 psch say <<\x61 \o142>> # this case works at least
14:28 psch m: say <<\x61 \o142>> # this case works at least
14:28 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«a b␤»
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14:41 FROGGS_ yay, m-spectest PASS
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14:45 FROGGS_ I think RT #76734 was fixed two years ago...
14:45 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=76734
14:45 FROGGS_ lots and lots of tickets can be closed I think :o)
14:46 carlin lots of bugs will have just gone away as various bits were re-written
14:48 FROGGS_ nah... the ticket I pasted was fixed by me, I had that problem in my first module
14:48 FROGGS_ though, it is weird that I have not spotted that ticket within these two years
14:51 FROGGS_ ahh, RT #76734 already is marked testneeded
14:51 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=76734
14:52 FROGGS_ m: $_ = 'oh 2!'; s[\d+] += 40; .say
14:52 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/9_M0hRnKqF�Malformed assignment operator�at /tmp/9_M0hRnKqF:1�------> [32m$_ = 'oh 2!'; s[\d+] +=[33m�[31m 40; .say[0m�»
14:55 masak FROGGS_: the test for RT #76734 is still being skipped.
14:55 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=76734
14:57 FROGGS_ huh
14:58 masak so I think it needs to be un-skiped before the ticket is closed.
15:01 FROGGS_ masak: it fails with:
15:01 FROGGS_ Cannot modify an immutable A
15:01 FROGGS_ in block  at t/spec/S03-operators/assign.rakudo.moar:886
15:03 FROGGS_ so that overloaded infix:<=> is not taken into account at all
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15:09 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 7bfe90d | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
15:09 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
15:09 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/7bfe90dc16
15:09 dalek perl6-roast-data: 65a50f2 | coke++ | / (5 files):
15:09 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
15:09 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/65a50f2ba6
15:13 [Coke] ... it's been nine days since pugs was run. *sniff*
15:14 carlin long live rakudo
15:14 [Coke] moar is aborting -new- tests.
15:14 FROGGS_ and I killed the star daily :/
15:14 [Coke] S32-list/uniq.t aborted 26 test(s)
15:14 [Coke] integration/99problems-11-to-20.rakudo.moar aborted 14 test(s)
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15:15 [Coke] Unrecognized regex modifier :my at line 903, near " $*POD_ALL"
15:15 [Coke] ?
15:15 FROGGS_ yeah
15:16 FROGGS_ nqp HEAD is faulty at that time, but is back in a good shape
15:16 FROGGS_ me is getting lazy when it gets all dark
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15:46 masak nwc10: have you seen the way jQuery is handling their Big Major Version Upgrade? jQuery 2.0 was released back in April 2013, and most of the world still seems to be on jQuery 1.x.
15:47 masak nwc10: on CDNs, jquery-latest.js tends to point to the latest 1.x version. (and I think they tried it the other way for a while, and there was chaos/outcry)
15:47 Ven yay hell breaking loose :)
15:49 psch they're only serving 1.11.1 from now on as jquery-latest.js -> http://blog.jquery.com/2014/07/03/dont-use-jquery-latest-js/
15:49 psch or rather "from then on" :)
15:49 masak nwc10: *but* they are keeping feature parity in all their releases.
15:50 masak so it's not quite the same reason to switch as with Perl or as with Python.
15:50 masak the reason to switch in jQuery's case is mainly to get a smaller jQuery.
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15:53 Ven masak: not, it's to fight against crime :P
15:53 masak "[jQuery 2.0] is smaller, faster, and can be used in JavaScript environments where the code needed for old-IE compatibility often causes problems of its own." --http://blog.jquery.com/2013/04/18/jquery-2-0-released/
15:54 Ven I think Perl 6 is maturing fast enough that I'm ready to tell people to use it.
15:54 Ven Actually, let me fix that -- I think perl 6 is maturing fast enough that **I** am ready to use it :P
15:55 Ven jQuery has no "mature enough". They're waiting on an external factor -- quite different, imho
15:55 masak this comment has all the rings of the Perl 5/Perl 6 rift: http://blog.jquery.com/2013/04/18/jquery-2-0-released/comment-page-4/#comment-541881
15:56 masak Ven: well, Python is waiting on an "external factor", too. namely, all of their ecosystem being *willing* to switch over.
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15:56 timotimo Ven: it'd probably be nice if you pulled in your people in batches so that instead of getting a thousand newcomers at once, we can make sure to learn and improve between waves :P
15:56 Ven Disagreed. That's something they can influence (like we can)
15:57 Ven timotimo: well, I might not have evangelized thousands ! But I definitely got over 20 people interested, and 10 doing something with it right away.
15:58 timotimo :)
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16:06 raiph <masak> I don't see any real reason it *couldn't* be Foo::$pi ... <FROGGS> ... not with [[Foo::&foo]]
16:08 raiph I personally find Foo::$pi much preferable even if it doesn't work in some cases
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16:21 nwc10 masak: this seems somewhat like Apache, where 1.3x stuck around for years and years, while 2 was also out
16:22 nwc10 and it does seem that there's a good pull-factor for jquery
16:22 nwc10 (I don't acutally know what the end user pull case for Apache 2 was)
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16:24 japhb nwc10: Wasn't it the improved worker model?  My memory is pretty fuzzy.
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16:28 dalek tablets: 1e1bbe6 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-b-grouped.txt:
16:28 dalek tablets: fix utf
16:28 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/1e1bbe6a32
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16:47 timotimo .u ⟪
16:47 yoleaux U+27EA MATHEMATICAL LEFT DOUBLE ANGLE BRACKET [Ps] (⟪)
16:47 timotimo i don't think that's the right character actually
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16:48 timotimo m: say (1, 2, 3) ⟪+⟪ ( 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5 )
16:48 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Nok9gcPCIPâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/Nok9gcPCIP:1â�¤------> [32msay (1, 2, 3) [33mâ��[31m⟪+⟪ ( 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5 )[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤â€¦Â»
16:48 timotimo m: say (1, 2, 3) «+« ( 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5 )
16:48 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«6 7 8 6 7 8␤»
16:49 Ven Trying to sway a pythonista to perl 6. This is gonna be a hard one :D
16:49 timotimo don't forget to stay honest :)
16:51 carlin it's a tough sell since python has `import antigravity`
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16:51 timotimo yeah, i was thinking the other day we ought to have something like "import this"
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17:04 pmurias why does the nqp-moar and nqp-jvm use a different MAIN signature?
17:04 Ven timotimo: Are you implying I'd need to lie ;-) ?
17:04 timotimo well ... dunno?
17:05 Ven belieeeve :P
17:06 masak raiI think many with you would prefer Foo::$pi. my point -- enhanced by FROGGS' use case -- is that having it that way is a way to misunderstand sigils and exactly why they are useful. cf string interpolation for another such use case.
17:06 masak raiph*
17:06 Ven (not in me, I mean. In the ability of P6 to swing a pythonista gangsta)
17:07 mr-foobar joined #perl6
17:08 timotimo :)
17:08 timotimo maybe i'll spend some time writing python benchmark equivalents to the perl6bench benchmarks we have?
17:08 timotimo at least the microbenchmarks should be doable
17:10 japhb timotimo: And ... that would be why I changed 'perls' to 'compilers' in perl6bench.  ;-)
17:11 timotimo ayup
17:11 timotimo you think we have any chance against cpython performance wise?
17:11 timotimo definitely no chance against pypy, that's for sure
17:11 virtualsue joined #perl6
17:12 FROGGS_ still would be good to know where we are
17:12 timotimo of course
17:12 pmurias has the performance improved so much recently?
17:12 timotimo our performance, you mean?
17:13 pmurias yes
17:13 FROGGS_ this year happened a lot
17:13 timotimo http://jnthn.net/perl6/bench/2014-07-15.html - look at this
17:13 timotimo last year's parrot vs last month's moar and a moar from a few days ago
17:13 japhb timotimo: IIRC CPython got faster than perl5 at some point, and certainly PyPy is really quite fast, but I'm with FROGGS, I'd love to know exactly where we stand.
17:19 Akagi201 joined #perl6
17:21 vendethiel timotimo: it's really amazing :-)
17:26 carlin while_concat_native graph is nice
17:26 carlin does rakudo really beat perl5 in mandelbrot? that's impressive
17:27 lizmat joined #perl6
17:27 FROGGS_ well, it looks like...
17:27 woolfy joined #perl6
17:28 rurban1 joined #perl6
17:29 japhb carlin: When using Math::Complex, yes.  I suspect that if done using plain nums and shuffling the real/imaginary parts around by hand, perl5 would win for now.
17:29 japhb *When perl5 is using Math::Complex
17:37 carlin come a long way since 2009 when colomon++'s mandelbrot scripts would eithe take hours to finish or segfault
17:38 lichtkind joined #perl6
17:39 retupmoca $ perl6 -e 'sleep(9999);' # 0% CPU usage
17:39 retupmoca $ perl6 -e 'Promise.in(2);sleep(9999);' # 100% cpu usage (forever)
17:39 retupmoca ^ that's a little annoying
17:39 mr-foobar joined #perl6
17:39 retupmoca (on perl6-m)
17:42 ChoHag joined #perl6
17:43 ChoHag How can I replace or in some way augment the code which sets an attribute's value?
17:44 ChoHag So that if a consumer of a class calls $class.attribute() = "value", I can have a piece of code which gets executed.
17:45 ChoHag Prior to or post the actual changing of the value.
17:46 timotimo needs Proxy
17:46 ChoHag Hmm I tried that before and couldn't get it to do ... something.
17:46 ChoHag I can't remember nwo.
17:47 atroxaper joined #perl6
17:47 FROGGS_ ChoHag: see https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/S06-routine-modifiers/proxy.t
17:48 ChoHag Thanks.
17:48 ChoHag I shall decipher that when I'm not melting into the sofa.
17:50 mr-foobar joined #perl6
17:51 FROGGS_ m: class Foo { has $!bar; method bar() is rw { Proxy.new( FETCH => sub ($self) { $!bar }, STORE => sub ($self, $value) { $!bar = $value**2 } ) } }; my $f = Foo.new; $f.bar = 42; say $f.bar # ChoHag
17:51 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«1764␤»
17:51 ChoHag That too.
17:51 ChoHag It's a hot day. I'm a Pratchett troll.
17:51 FROGGS_ ChoHag: though you must know that FETCH/STORE might be called more often then you would expect
17:52 woolfy joined #perl6
17:52 ChoHag OK I'll bear that in mind.
17:58 timotimo aye, our code gen and stuff assume fetch is extremely cheap, so it'll do that quite often in many cases
17:59 timotimo m: my $foo = Proxy.new( FETCH => -> { say "fetched!"; 10 } ); say "hi" if $foo > 5;
17:59 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤  in block  at /tmp/fhKp1xetbT:1␤␤»
17:59 xenoterracide_ joined #perl6
17:59 timotimo m: my $foo = Proxy.new( FETCH => -> $_ { say "fetched!"; 10 } ); say "hi" if $foo > 5;
17:59 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«fetched!␤hi␤»
17:59 timotimo m: my $foo = Proxy.new( FETCH => -> $_ { say "fetched!"; 10 } ); sub test(Int $arg) { say "called" }; test($foo);
17:59 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«fetched!␤called␤»
18:00 timotimo huh.
18:02 mr-foobar joined #perl6
18:03 carlin m: Proxy.new( FETCH => -> $_ { return 1 } );
18:03 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«(signal )»
18:03 timotimo carlin: that tries to return from outside the pointy block
18:03 timotimo that's not a good idea :)
18:03 carlin yeah, I got that impression from the segfault :p
18:04 timotimo i wonder where we have to catch that to give the proper "trying to return from something that you can't return from" or something error
18:07 dalek perl6-bench: 4b8e696 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | README:
18:07 dalek perl6-bench: README Really Quick Start section, copyright bump, and minor cleanups
18:07 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/4b8e696fb9
18:07 dalek perl6-bench: a7e9d83 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | README (2 files):
18:07 dalek perl6-bench: Rename README to README.md so GitHub will render it
18:07 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/a7e9d83c17
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18:13 mr-foobar joined #perl6
18:16 woosley joined #perl6
18:20 dalek perl6-bench: 1e57fe1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | README.md:
18:20 dalek perl6-bench: D'oh!  Forgot a
18:20 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/1e57fe1c8a
18:23 woolfy left #perl6
18:33 carlin joined #perl6
18:34 japhb Is there an easy way in current NQP to specify an array containing the values of a range?  I want to be able to say something not much more complex than 'my @a := 1 .. 10;'
18:34 japhb I recognize this is more likely an op than syntax, but if so, what op?
18:34 timotimo not that i know, no :(
18:35 japhb Gah.
18:35 * japhb imagines an nqp::rangelist($min, $max)
18:37 japhb An easy way to do '... for 1 .. 10' or 'for 1 .. 10 { ... }' would be nice too, where this is turned into a fast loop, rather than actually instantiating the entire list.
18:39 * vendethiel read "nqp::evangelist" -- a bit tired, uh
18:41 thou joined #perl6
18:44 japhb vendethiel: To what do you refer?
18:44 Ven japhb: to "nqp::rangelist"
18:45 japhb Oh, heh.  :-)
18:45 dalek roast: b76ede5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S03-metaops/cross.t:
18:45 dalek roast: RT #112602 test for 1..* X* 1..*
18:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b76ede5e83
18:45 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=112602
18:45 Ven it ... it works :O ? yay~~
18:47 japhb FROGGS_: That should probably test that both sides of the X iterate properly over at least 2-3 iterations each.
18:47 japhb (Or maybe that's another test)
18:47 FROGGS_ japhb: um, what?
18:49 japhb FROGGS_: Oh, the @a was misleading me, I read 1..* X* @a.
18:49 japhb Though ... why mention @a at all if you're not going to test it?
18:49 dalek roast: 79a52c8 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S03-metaops/cross.t:
18:49 dalek roast: fix left-over from copy&pasting, japhb++
18:49 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/79a52c8eeb
18:50 Akagi201 joined #perl6
18:51 Ven what's the difference between `1..* X* 1..*` and `1 X* 1..*` , though :P ?
18:51 FROGGS_ well... :P
18:52 japhb Ven, functionally ... none, really.
18:52 Ven "it looks cool", ha
18:52 FROGGS_ but neither side is treated eagerly, so it matters for the test
18:57 mr-foobar joined #perl6
18:57 Sqirrel joined #perl6
19:05 dmol joined #perl6
19:07 flussence perl6: say 'ab\qq"\x63"';
19:07 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 866817, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«abc␤»
19:07 flussence this... scares me for some reason.
19:08 psch perl6: say 'ab\qx[echo "c"]' # ...
19:08 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: rungather may not be used in safe mode␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (rungather @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/tmpfile line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4595 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p…»
19:08 camelia ..rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«qx, qqx is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:1␤  in sub QX at src/RESTRICTED.setting:9␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
19:08 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 866817: OUTPUT«abc␤␤»
19:08 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 866817: OUTPUT«qx, qqx is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:2␤  in sub QX at src/RESTRICTED.setting:9␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
19:08 dalek perl6-bench: 0923c8d | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | microbenchmarks.pl:
19:08 dalek perl6-bench: Add NQP version of split_string_constant
19:08 dalek perl6-bench:
19:08 dalek perl6-bench: Also switch Perl 5 and Perl 6 variants to while loops to match NQP,
19:08 dalek perl6-bench: and add regex tag to split_string_regex.
19:08 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/0923c8d9dd
19:08 brrt joined #perl6
19:09 psch well, it's spec
19:21 lizmat joined #perl6
19:25 dalek roast: 42c8533 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S03-metaops/zip.t:
19:25 dalek roast: RT #116036 test for <a b> Z=> []
19:25 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/42c8533ab3
19:25 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=116036
19:30 dalek roast: db3b9ec | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2009-day24.t:
19:30 dalek roast: completing advent 2009 day 24
19:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/db3b9ec9e8
19:31 masak dwarring++
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19:50 dalek nqp/charrange: 0376eaf | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTRegexCompilerMAST.nqp:
19:50 dalek nqp/charrange: we use the first positional as subtype
19:50 dalek nqp/charrange: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0376eaf7e7
19:50 dalek nqp/charrange: 7557ea1 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/parrot/ (3 files):
19:50 dalek nqp/charrange: port EDGE_CHARRANGE to parrot backend
19:50 dalek nqp/charrange: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/7557ea16e4
19:51 Akagi201 joined #perl6
19:56 timotimo FROGGS_: what do your changes to charrange do? improve performance of case insensitive charranges?
19:57 FROGGS_ timotimo: yes, case insensitive ranges are also just a bounds checking now
19:57 FROGGS_ and, we do not build the enumcharlist at all now
19:58 FROGGS_ I wanna bench it, because it might make sense to not use charrange but enumcharlist in case the range is very small
20:01 FROGGS_ m: say "\x[10001]" ~~ /<[\x10000..\xEFFFF]>/ # was not implemented on moar at all btw
20:01 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«(signal )»
20:06 dalek nqp/charrange: efb67a8 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (2 files):
20:06 dalek nqp/charrange: port EDGE_CHARRANGE to jvm backend
20:06 dalek nqp/charrange: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/efb67a870d
20:08 dalek nqp/charrange: 2631218 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/QRegex/ (2 files):
20:08 dalek nqp/charrange: use charrange instead of enumcharlist
20:08 dalek nqp/charrange:
20:08 dalek nqp/charrange: We have charrange now on all backends, also for case insensitive matches and also
20:08 dalek nqp/charrange: have EDGE_CHARRANGE support in the NFA. That mean we do not need to create an
20:08 dalek nqp/charrange: enumcharlist compatible string at all, which gets very expensive when the range
20:08 dalek nqp/charrange: is big enough.
20:08 dalek nqp/charrange: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/263121899d
20:08 dalek roast: 1c84a0b | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2009-day06.t:
20:08 dalek roast: Fix/unfudge incorrect test.
20:08 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1c84a0b226
20:09 FROGGS_ eww, I'm recompiling my perl6-m but I've got a running `p6bench setup` which uses it >.<
20:11 ChoHag Can I silence the warning: useless use of 'is rw' on $!a
20:11 ChoHag The weather is now reasonable, and for some reason the Proxy object seems to work like it didn't last time I failed to use it.
20:12 FROGGS_ no, does not seem like as if you could silence it
20:12 ChoHag I thought not.
20:12 FROGGS_ m: class Foo { has $!a is rw } # also, that file/line is not helpful at all :/
20:12 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«useless use of 'is rw' on $!a  in any  at src/Perl6/World.nqp:1673␤␤»
20:13 ChoHag I probably want a $. variable anyway with a wrapper rather then writing my own accessor function out of whole cloth.
20:13 ChoHag But since I'm squeezing in some coding in while the weather and a toddler allow, I'm not applying much in the way of actual thought.
20:13 FROGGS_ ChoHag: you can make it a $. and provide the accessor method, that should work out
20:14 ChoHag Can you remove methods from a class at runtime?
20:14 FROGGS_ maybe using the MOP
20:14 ChoHag The MethodContainer.nqp suggests not.
20:14 FROGGS_ but I'm not sure
20:15 ChoHag Definitely appreciating that most of perl 6 is (not quite) written in perl 6.
20:15 FROGGS_ but btw, I don't think you need the 'is rw' at all, you can assign to it from within the class
20:16 FROGGS_ yeah, otherwise I would have problems fixing bugs :o)
20:17 kurahaupo joined #perl6
20:22 ChoHag I'm writing something which sort of fits in the space of library or api.
20:22 ChoHag So I need to provide options I don't know about.
20:22 virtualsue joined #perl6
20:26 masak yay, http://host07.perl6.com:8080/report/masak looks much better today \o/
20:28 masak something still wrong with Perl6::Literate, though.
20:28 masak not really sure how to find out what that is...
20:30 thou joined #perl6
20:30 timotimo masak: well done! what broke druid?
20:30 timotimo i recall fixing druid a while back :)
20:31 Ven joined #perl6
20:32 masak timotimo: EVAL, bless(*), .exists, and either smartmatching or grammars changing semantics.
20:32 masak timotimo: yes, I saw you had fixed a lot of things. thank you for that.
20:35 Ven so, state of the art web frameworks in perl 6 are bailador and that other thingie ?
20:35 * Ven tries to remember the other framework he's seen
20:43 lizmat joined #perl6
20:45 cognominal sometimes I feel the Perl 6 is an adventure game where information nuggets can be on irc, on the web (can be on weird places like host07.perl6.com:8080). With tadzik, probably even geocaching is involved.
20:46 cognominal or maybe is is a mystic things where knowldeged is imparted from gurus.
20:46 timotimo hah :)
20:47 dalek roast: 70902a0 | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2009-day07.t:
20:47 dalek roast: added a couple more tests
20:47 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/70902a0cc1
20:48 * lizmat stops working on the migration of Foo.moarvm -> Foo.pm.moarvm
20:48 lizmat Need to dig deeper into ModuleLoader.nqp to be able to fix the last failing spectests
20:49 lizmat sightseeing again&
20:49 cognominal with synopsess pointed to unimplemented things to increase the confusion. Admittedly today, you need some persistance to find them.
20:52 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:58 brrt left #perl6
20:59 Ven joined #perl6
21:13 FROGGS joined #perl6
21:23 zengargo1le joined #perl6
21:30 btyler joined #perl6
21:31 masak cognominal: it is our job to make the adventure game simple to play.
21:33 masak cognominal: re host07.perl6.com:8080, it's fairly OK that it's not more prominent, since it's a fairly internal role it's playing. documentation, tutorials, FAQs, blogs should be prominent.
21:41 zengargo1le i wish the Apocalypses and Exegeses were updated/re-implemented. the specs can be a *long* read, really repetitive in places, sorta too detailed in places.
21:41 masak I've sometimes toyed with the idea of going back and re-writing Apocalypses.
21:41 masak I actually re-implemented some Exigeses long ago.
21:42 * vendethiel has read all specs, but did not read any of the exigeses/apocalypses
21:42 masak oh, and I've sometimes wanted to ghostwrite A09 :)
21:42 vendethiel A09 ?
21:43 masak S09 references A09, which never existed.
21:43 masak the thought of writing it in the style of TimToady, passing it off as an actual Apocalypse, always appealed to me.
21:44 zengargo1le sometimes i'd just like the meat of the specs without the detailed analysis/reasoning.
21:47 vendethiel I admit that sometimes the NYI puts you off :D.
21:48 vendethiel "oh it can do that ? amazing" *try it* "well, apparently it can't yet" :P
21:48 vendethiel (admittedly, I've had a LOOOOOT of "oh it can do that ? YES IT CAN §§")
21:50 zengargo1le that's why i haven't gone back and re-read the Apocalypses and Exegeses, too afraid they'll be so wrong by now...  i just have the hazy memories of reading them some 10 years ago. :P
21:50 atroxaper joined #perl6
21:51 zengargo1le as a 'this will tell you 90% of the stuff you need to know' sort of way.
21:52 masak vendethiel: you should have been here in 2008 :P
21:52 vendethiel masak: mmh ? nothing worked :P ?
21:52 vendethiel or stuff starting working feature by feature ?
21:52 masak vendethiel: "I can check if a file exists? ... no, apparently not. but I need to, because I'm implementing a wiki engine."
21:53 Akagi201 joined #perl6
21:53 vendethiel when I hear about it; it's like nothing worked since 2008 :P
21:53 masak vendethiel: ended up doing `try { open } CATCH { $exists = 0 }`
21:53 masak :)
21:53 vendethiel I like just having gotten here.
21:53 masak 0, not False, because *Bool didn't exist*.
21:53 masak :)
21:53 vendethiel I can tell people "yeah, I use perl 6 in prod, only 3 months after starting looking into it"
21:54 vendethiel I really believe this has a different sound to people
21:54 dalek tablets: 44c4b69 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (3 files):
21:54 dalek tablets: basics, intro spacing semicolon
21:54 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/44c4b69091
21:58 vendethiel masak: why didn't Bool exist :o) ?
21:59 masak NYI.
21:59 vendethiel oh ...
22:02 vendethiel but, if I understand it well, before 2008, most efforts when towards pugs, right ?
22:02 masak Pugs went to sleep in, hm, late 2006? Rakudo started picking up speed sometime in late 2007.
22:03 masak there was a year there when I felt like nothing much happened.
22:03 vendethiel So that's why. makes sense...
22:03 vendethiel So much happened this year, it's really impressive ...
22:03 dalek tablets: afedbff | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/tablet-2-basic-syntax.txt:
22:03 dalek tablets: spaces section 30% more crispy
22:03 dalek tablets: review: https://github.com/perl6/tablets/commit/afedbff043
22:03 masak 'night, #perl6
22:18 thou joined #perl6
22:27 Ven joined #perl6
22:37 dalek nqp/charrange: 88abbfe | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
22:37 dalek nqp/charrange: bump moar revision for charrange
22:37 dalek nqp/charrange: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/88abbfe5aa
22:44 Ven I really need to explain contexts, uh ..
22:44 Ven m: open 'nofilehere'; CATCH { when X::IO { .say } }
22:44 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«open is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:1␤  in sub open at src/RESTRICTED.setting:5␤  in block  at /tmp/WxMarWbDy0:1␤␤»
22:45 Ven mh, right.
22:50 Ven Where should PHASERS be ? After flow control constructs ? Before operators ? After them ? Before class ? After exceptions ?
22:51 btyler joined #perl6
22:51 Ven (the hardest while making a tutorial is to make everything fit at the right place !!)
22:53 Ven (probably after exceptions, to explain keep and undo)
22:53 Akagi201 joined #perl6
22:54 FROGGS after exception, yeah
22:57 Ven m: contend {}
22:57 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/d8YuO5SwVUâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    contend used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:01 Ven m: say FINAL { 55 }
23:01 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/erC84ZEpZ6â�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    FINAL used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:02 Ven oh, FINAL is NYI ?
23:09 Ven erm, is there an explanation on "leaving a block succesfully" ? I feel like I've been told already, but can't find it in the specs
23:12 Ven hmm, pre/post aren't really loop-related
23:13 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:15 colomon Ven: I would take "leaving a block succesfully" as meaning you are leaving the block, either from the falling off the end or a return or ...
23:15 Ven colomon: yeah, but that means with no exception
23:17 Ven m: try { return; }
23:17 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: ( no output )
23:17 Ven m: try { return; CONTROL {} }
23:17 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: ( no output )
23:17 Ven m: try { return; CONTROL { default { say 1 } } } # segfaults here
23:17 camelia rakudo-moar 866817: ( no output )
23:17 Ven maybe it was fixed in the last week. Or it's a repl fault
23:19 Ven oh, control gets triggered by warn (but not by die) ?
23:22 * Ven doesn't really understand fail vs warn vs die, and the s04 part about that doesn't have any example on throwing exceptions
23:24 nbrown joined #perl6
23:24 Ven is COMPOSE NYI ? can't seem to find much in the roast either
23:27 Ven Well, that's all for tonight I guess http://is.gd/HEHfje
23:27 Ven g
23:52 atroxaper joined #perl6
23:54 Akagi201 joined #perl6
23:57 vendethiel joined #perl6

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