Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-08-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:27 timotimo http://t.h8.lv/p6bench/2014-08-21-recent_stuff.html   <-  some benchmarks  ->  http://t.h8.lv/p6bench/2014-08-21-recent_rakudo.html
00:29 timotimo TimToady: it may be of special interest to you that in the array_set_xx benchmark the improvement is about 18x
00:31 TimToady \o/
00:32 timotimo i wish everyone traveling to YAPC::EU now or in the next few hours or tomorrow before i get on irc safe and comfortable travels :)
00:33 TimToady firshir
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00:38 timotimo i'll probably be following the perl6 related streams closely
00:38 timotimo maybe even more :3
00:42 colomon timotimo: hmmm, the jansson thing works great in parrot
00:43 timotimo colomon: it'd be nice if you could upload a bit of code that reproduces the problem
00:43 timotimo with an example json file as well if possible :)
00:43 japhb \o/ For massive xx performance improvement
00:44 timotimo still kind of frustrating that in our bigger benchmarks, improvements are much, much weaker
00:44 timotimo especially the tiny bump the jit does is ... sub-optimal
00:44 timotimo but ... yeah, the param_* ops will have their jit impls soon-ish and that'll give us many, many more frames attempted to jit
00:46 TimToady is anyone else having trouble downloading those graphs?
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00:48 colomon timotimo: working on it.  ;)
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00:49 Tassilo hello
00:49 timotimo thank you
00:49 japhb Can you get the page at all?  If so, do you have a script blocker running?
00:49 timotimo i'll probably have my nightly dose of sleep before i dive into your code
00:50 TimToady I haven't had trouble before
00:50 japhb Hmmm, they came up just fine for me.
00:51 japhb And it's not like the JS code changes all that often.
00:51 colomon timotimo: https://github.com/colomon/p6-json-jansson  -- the tests I've added in t/01-basics.t show the problem nicely.
00:51 TimToady oh, I'll bet I just have to restart ff
00:51 japhb (JQPlot appears to be essentially "stable" at this point.)
00:52 TimToady istr that it goes wonky when it upgrades under you
00:52 japhb Same with Chrome, sigh
00:56 TimToady nope, same deal
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00:56 TimToady just sits there flashing Transferring data from t.h8.lv...
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00:59 japhb Reload seemed to work, so it's not like the endpoint is dead.
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01:01 timotimo colomon: all i can think of is that perhaps we're not doing the reference counting thing properly?
01:02 timotimo and after we get the one list, the other list gets get'd, but jansson's like "you didn't increase the ref count of the first list, so i'll overwrite it with the first"
01:02 timotimo not quite sure why it'd end up the same which, though ...
01:02 colomon timotimo: or why it would work in parrot?
01:04 timotimo well, it also doesn't help
01:04 timotimo i mean when i incref it
01:06 * timotimo goes to bed
01:06 timotimo gnite
01:06 colomon \o
01:06 timotimo it's a very good find, i must say
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01:46 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:36 dalek roast: e2a83ff | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | S02-literals/misc-interpolation.t:
02:36 dalek roast: tests for RT #122583 list comprehension + $(...) interpolation
02:36 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e2a83ff8c6
02:36 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122583
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04:44 lizmat commute&
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06:10 sergot morning o/
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06:17 kurahaupo evening \o
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06:26 Mouq middle of the night \o
06:47 dalek rakudo/nom: 47d315a | TimToady++ | src/core/LoL.pm:
06:47 dalek rakudo/nom: optimize X operator, esp for ranges
06:47 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/47d315aa94
06:48 dalek rakudo/nom: 1260360 | Mouq++ | docs/ChangeLog:
06:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Add some ChangLog entires
06:48 dalek rakudo/nom:
06:48 dalek rakudo/nom: I just did this from a quick perusal of the git logs; please add to this
06:48 dalek rakudo/nom: if you think something is missing.
06:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1260360c1a
06:48 dalek rakudo/nom: 7e23526 | Mouq++ | src/core/LoL.pm:
06:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo into nom
06:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7e23526ce4
06:48 TimToady ^200 X ^200 now runs about 3 times faster
06:50 Mouq Woot!
06:51 TimToady though it's still slower than nested loops
06:51 TimToady since we have to allocate the entries
06:52 TimToady so at some point we'll want to optimize 'for @a X @b -> $a, $b {}' into 'for @a -> $a { for @b -> $b {...} }, only without the extra lexical scope, if we can get away with it
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07:05 moritz when Range { eager @result }
07:05 moritz what does that do for infinite ranges?
07:05 TimToady that wants to generalize someday
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07:06 TimToady eager will just batch things up in that case, I think
07:06 TimToady it's only "mostly eager"
07:07 TimToady in any case, we probably want to generalize that test with more input from the compiler
07:08 TimToady but adding the same thing to X+ makes it maybe 30% faster
07:08 TimToady not as much gain since it's doing a lot of other work to call +
07:08 TimToady still, beats a kick in the head
07:09 TimToady if it turns out to be a problem, we can ask the range for it's max
07:10 moritz for 1..$n -> $i { # might be even faster to write a while loop with a native int
07:10 TimToady that's already optimized, I think
07:11 TimToady though perhaps not to native
07:11 TimToady but yeah, if you can prove max value, you can use natives
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07:15 moritz $n is already a native int :-)
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09:07 dalek rakudo/nom: c0d8643 | TimToady++ | src/core/ (2 files):
09:07 dalek rakudo/nom: pessimize .infinite X args more consistently
09:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c0d86438a0
09:09 TimToady moritz++ for making me take a second look
09:09 timotimo o/
09:09 sergot hi timotimo
09:13 TimToady timotimo: your ^SCALE X ^SCALE benchmarks should run faster now
09:14 nwc10 TimToady: are you experimenting with the xkcd 28 hour schedule? :-)
09:15 TimToady no, just the flipside of SAD :)
09:15 TimToady and what with all this staying at home, have more energy than usual
09:16 TimToady and since my wife is up visiting in Seattle, nobody to tell me to go to bed :)
09:18 timotimo i wonder how hard it'll be to build an optimization in code-gen or optimizer that turns an ^$foo X ^$bar -> $a, $b into a nested while loop internally while still properly handling redo/next/last
09:19 timotimo on the other hand, making it a non-nested loop wouldn't be terribly hard either, just code-gen an increment operation that's a tiny bit more complicated than just $i++
09:19 TimToady surely only last is a problem
09:20 TimToady and you can solve that with loop labels
09:20 timotimo ah, hm.
09:20 TimToady redo and next go to INNER: while last goes to OUTER:
09:21 timotimo but if the outer loop itself has a label, we can't properly turn it into a nested loop, right?
09:21 timotimo or would it be enough to transfer that loop to the inner loop?
09:22 timotimo hm, not quite; you can pass labels to functions you call, right?
09:22 timotimo in that case, a "last" could appear with the then-inner loop's label and mess up our pretty scheme
09:25 TimToady you just split the label, if the loop as a whole is FOO:, then you end up with OUTERFOO: and INNERFOO: or some such
09:25 TimToady but yeah, dynamic can mess that up, unless you install a FOO handler that is smart
09:26 timotimo sounds like work :)
09:27 nwc10 TimToady: PASS (other than t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.rakudo.moar and t/spec/S32-list/uniq.t)
09:28 TimToady well, and lock still flaps
09:28 nwc10 several of them SEGV on me if I build optimised. Timing issues. I believe jnthn is aware of this
09:29 TimToady there was a test that required an infinite list on the right side of X*, and metaop handled that, but X didn't (though there's no test for it)
09:30 TimToady should handle it now by just not eagerizing anything
09:30 TimToady GIGO, just slowly :)
09:30 moritz m: say (5 X* 1..*)[^10]
09:30 camelia rakudo-moar 7e2352: OUTPUT«5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50␤»
09:31 TimToady m: say (5 X 1..*)[^10]
09:31 moritz I'm sure that for a Haskellian, that's a legitimate way to generate this series
09:31 camelia rakudo-moar 7e2352: OUTPUT«This type cannot unbox to a native integer␤  in sub infix:<X> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:8806␤  in block  at /tmp/InmOavjVJV:1␤␤»
09:31 TimToady eh?
09:31 timotimo moritz: could just Z or <<*<< it
09:31 TimToady oh, notmine
09:31 timotimo well, would have to use a range or repetition on the left
09:31 TimToady hypers are eager
09:31 timotimo (for Z)
09:31 timotimo oh!
09:31 timotimo of course they are
09:32 TimToady > perl6
09:32 TimToady > say (5 X 1..*)[^10]
09:32 TimToady 5 1 5 2 5 3 5 4 5 5 5 6 5 7 5 8 5 9 5 10
09:32 TimToady so I fixed the X case, just hasn't recompiled yet
09:34 moritz aye
09:34 TimToady I suppose X should look for infinities after the first argument, and if the second value of the first argument can never be reached, warn
09:35 TimToady or basically, if there is more than one .infinity, you've written something sorta bogus
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09:36 TimToady or anything that's not a single value left of a .infinite, for that matter
09:37 TimToady but coming up with a message that doesn't confuse the (obviously already confused) programmer is gonna be a trick
09:40 TimToady well, the message is probably not worth the memory it would consume
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10:54 dalek rakudo/nom: f1edae0 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | docs/ChangeLog:
10:54 dalek rakudo/nom: Change of lives/dies_ok did not exceed a release
10:54 dalek rakudo/nom:
10:54 dalek rakudo/nom: So we don't need to mention this in the ChangeLog
10:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f1edae0be9
10:54 * lizmat is sitting rather numbed behind the keyboard
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11:17 timotimo what's wrong?
11:21 lizmat our cat Whoopi died ~ 2 hours ago
11:21 lizmat she was with us for 12+ years
11:22 lizmat we also missed our flight and are now considering our options, as there is no identical flight available tomorrow
11:23 lizmat and on Saturday, we probably would only be able to make it for the lightning talks, maybe a bit earier
11:24 lizmat but, truth be told, right now I don't feel like doing anything much
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11:25 timotimo oh no! :(
11:26 timotimo you have my sympathies
11:26 timotimo losing a beloved pet is terrible
11:27 timotimo only recently i've been reminded of our dog Nicki who passed away about 6 years ago
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11:41 lizmat timotimo: thank you
11:47 moritz lizmat: my sympathies
11:51 lizmat moritz: thank you
11:59 sergot lizmat: my sympathies as well
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12:41 tadzik ohh
12:41 tadzik lizmat: hugs to both of you :( I lost my 13yo dog this summer too
12:41 lizmat sergot tadzik thank you
12:42 colomon lizmat: hugs
12:43 lizmat colomon thank you
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13:57 hoelzro lizmat: I'm really sorry to hear that
13:59 hoelzro (sorry, a little late)
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14:06 RandalSchwartz when I try to make rakudo with moar, I always get this error:
14:06 RandalSchwartz ... perl -MExtUtils::Command -e cp perl6-m perl6
14:06 RandalSchwartz ... gmake: write error
14:06 RandalSchwartz am I doing something wrong?  It seems to stop the make
14:06 RandalSchwartz I never got that building the parrot backend
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14:13 moritz RandalSchwartz: disc full? or is anythinig wrong with your local 'perl6' (dangling symlink?)
14:14 jnthn lizmat: Really sorry to hear about Whoopi. And the flight, though that seems somehow insignificant in comparison... :(
14:14 masak lizmat: what jnthn said :/
14:14 RandalSchwartz nope
14:14 RandalSchwartz where is it trying to copy to?
14:14 jnthn RandalSchwartz: You may also have the misfortune of being on a version of OSX that ships with a busted make (yes, really). If you "make" again it actually completes successfully.
14:14 RandalSchwartz nope.
14:14 RandalSchwartz using gmake
14:15 RandalSchwartz built from ports
14:15 jnthn OK. The error matches exactly.
14:15 jnthn Does typing "make" again make it work?
14:15 RandalSchwartz and no, it repeats precisely the same way, although faster since things are already made.
14:15 jnthn Ouch. That is different.
14:16 jnthn I don't have a platform where it happens, but from the digging I've heard about, the error actually is spat out by make, rather than anything of ours. :/
14:16 moritz and to answer it the question, it just tries to perl6-m to perl6
14:17 moritz all in the current directory
14:17 rurban I also had the same error as Randal recently. Didn't investigate
14:20 timotimo it's also a thoroughly unhelpful error message :\
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14:22 pyrimidine I had that error as well, but ‘make install’ worked fine
14:22 pyrimidine (on Mac OS X)
14:23 btyler_ likewise, also using system make, OSX 10.9
14:25 pyrimidine Also: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-04-28#i_8647503
14:25 betterworld maybe 'make -s' helps
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14:27 rurban I also got it on the darwin make only
14:28 * pyrimidine testing ‘make -s’
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14:30 tgt Has anyone managed to golf the OS X make error down to anything I could usefully submit to Apple?
14:31 moritz git clone git@github.com:rakudo/rakudo.git; cd rakudo; perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --gen-nqp; make
14:31 * pyrimidine hasn’t
14:31 moritz just 4 commands! :-)
14:32 moritz even better, use the https:// URL, so that they don't need a github account
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14:34 pyrimidine ugh
14:35 * RandalSchwartz repeats... "using gmake"
14:35 pyrimidine after git pull and make: Stage parse      : moar(81319,0x7fff7c7e6310) malloc: *** error for object 0x7fcaf38cd0b0: pointer being freed was not allocated
14:35 tgt I think they'd prefer us to do all the work :(
14:36 moritz if both make and gmake exhibit the problem (and they aren't the same), maybe it's really a problem in our Makefile
14:38 pyrimidine moritz: seeing compilation error with a git pull now ^^^
14:38 moritz pyrimidine: :(
14:40 pyrimidine I’ll try bisecting
14:41 betterworld according to the sources, "write error" is printed when (g)make gets an error closing standard output, so I guess it is a problem with the terminal, and "make -s" might be a way around that
14:42 daxim_ code in p5, but question is grammar-centric:  now that I have my AST <http://paste.scsys.co.uk/417408>, how do I go about transpiling it to a different programming language? any tutorials I should read?
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14:43 moritz daxim_: depends on the target language
14:44 moritz daxim_: there's tons of literator on code generation, though most assumes it's assembly or something similar
14:44 moritz daxim_: if it's more like a high level language, I approach it more like I'd approach any other text document generation (think HTML...)
14:44 daxim_ no, also high-level like the dynamic P-languages
14:45 daxim_ HTML is vague - do you mean use a templating system?
14:45 moritz yes, at least for the broad structure
14:46 moritz and then you can have objects that know how to codegen-ify themselves
14:46 jnthn daxim_: Sometimes I take the approach of building up a tree structure that describes the target language, and that stringifies to the code.
14:47 moritz or you can have template functions that know how to codegen-ify a certain type of operation, and use some form of genericity to pick the right function for each operation
14:47 jnthn daxim_: In general, the goal is to push dealing with strings to the edges of the system.
14:47 daxim_ ooh, then I need to study the target languages in detail first
14:47 jnthn So that as little as possible remains to be decided by the time you turn it into a string.
14:50 timotimo oh hey jnthn, you've arrived near sofia?
14:51 jnthn Yeah, I'm at my hotel
14:51 jnthn Wasn't too bad a journey. Ended up doing a slightly bumpy propellor plane ride for the last bit. And then the taxi desk gave us a hotel to the wrong place! But made it :)
14:53 timotimo good to know
14:54 jnthn Nice to see some Cyrillic again :)
14:55 gtodd nice beaches?
14:56 gtodd :-)  ... gotta head east for that
14:56 gtodd or south
14:57 felher +
14:58 jnthn yeah, red line
14:58 jnthn oops, ww
14:59 gtodd I have a mechanical question about the rakudo build ...  in what "order" are the backends  built? if I do --backends=moar,parrot --gen-moar --gen-parrot do moarvm.parrot get built then the nqp specific portions of perl6-m perl6-p ...  ?
14:59 gtodd actaully better Q:  I'd like to try to build and install everything with say a cron job and have failures skipped ... can I do that somehow?
15:00 [Coke] lizmat: very sorry about your cat. :|
15:01 gtodd (was trying to write a quick script that would remove a failed build from the configure stage and rerun)
15:01 [Coke] RandalSchwartz's problem happens every single time on os x, and has been doing for MONTHS.
15:02 lee_ i've seen that on OS X for a long time, but it didn't seem to prevent installing of perl6
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15:03 [Coke] I typically have to then "chmod a+x ./perl6", and things can continue; but if you're doing it as part of a bigger process, it kills you dead.
15:04 * jnthn wonders if just tinkering with the Makefile a bit would make it somehow go away...
15:04 [Coke] I tried debugging the issue, but if you tell the os x make to use debug mode... it segfaults. (make)
15:04 jnthn o.O
15:05 [Coke] If you're bisecting, try before and after --backends change. Though I'm not sure how much Moar there was before that change.
15:05 [Coke] jnthn: yah, it's sneaky. :|
15:06 * [Coke] is doing the release on a linux box to avoid the issue. :|
15:06 * [Coke] will get the release out this evening local time.
15:07 pyrimidine moritz: the bad commit that was causing the malloc: https://gist.github.com/cjfields/4ced0ba97eabbf82dfce
15:08 pyrimidine https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c0d86438a04d94a866cd98d9ca6cd5abe0920b02
15:09 pyrimidine BTW, it is not related to —enable-jit (get the error with and w/o it)
15:11 jnthn [Coke]: Remember to bump to latest MOAR_REVISION and NQP_REVISION, if that's not done already. :)
15:11 [Coke] need to do nqp release, so I'll just use the release versions, ayes?
15:12 jnthn Correct
15:12 jnthn I did the Moar release already
15:12 [Coke] jnthn++
15:13 jnthn Tarball link is in the backlog of #moarvm
15:13 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 064986e | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
15:13 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
15:13 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/064986ef85
15:15 [Coke] I bumped the parrot release to 670, as it had one or two things that sounded worth getting.
15:15 [Coke] testing a moarvm run now, expecting no issues..
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15:36 dalek nqp: cc6e693 | coke++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
15:36 dalek nqp: bump MOAR to latest (recent) release
15:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/cc6e693f81
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15:41 jnthn pre-conf meat &
15:41 nwc10 om nom nom
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16:14 * TimToady wonders if OS X comes with a default umask that prevents creating an executable, hence the need for an explicit chmod +x
16:14 TimToady though that wouldn't explain why a second make would work sometimes
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16:15 * TimToady wonders how his last patch could possibly be causing a malloc problem
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16:17 TimToady pyrimidine: what arch and hardware is the malloc problem?  and can anyone else reproduce this?
16:17 TimToady .oO(they're probably all out partying...)
16:18 TimToady er, I meant OS--arch and hardware are sort of the same thing
16:18 pyrimidine TimToady: Mac OS X 10.9.4
16:19 TimToady ah...hmm...haven't there been malloc issues on OS X before?
16:20 TimToady anyway, that patch is all high-level code, so it must be tickling a bug somewhere else
16:20 * colomon just got back from the podiatrist.
16:20 TimToady did you walk?
16:20 colomon to and from the car.  ;)
16:20 pyrimidine TimToady: not sure.  I bisected to that specific commit, but I agree re: bug tickling
16:20 colomon TimToady: painkillers haven't worn off yet
16:21 TimToady better living through chemistry
16:21 colomon so how can I try to duplicate this on OS X 10.8?
16:23 gtodd [Coke] something still gives this error on FreeBSD with clang ... http://paste.scsys.co.uk/416737?tx=on&amp;submit=Format+it%21 (I think it is when nqp-p is getting built) ... I recall some kind of fix being discussed that was possibly Makefile-ish  (??)
16:23 TimToady colomon: see http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-08-21#i_9222686
16:23 gtodd [Coke]: all I could find was http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-06-10  ChoHag
16:23 TimToady or are you asking about the version skew?
16:24 colomon TimToady: trying to build f1edae0be91da7b9faaee0e247be5db276ac770c here now.
16:26 TimToady also some discussion back at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-08-18#i_9205478
16:27 TimToady which btw predates my latest patch, so it's not about the patch at all, seems
16:27 TimToady sounds like building with LOLLY=1 fixed it for lizmat++, but that could be coinkydink
16:28 TimToady and it might just be moving a fencepost somewhere
16:30 gtodd so probably just wishful thinking on my part ... anyway it was something to do with parrot's version of nqp's dyncall so hopefully that bit of src/build strangeness will just get straightened out and the problem will go away magically in some future release :-)  ...
16:31 TimToady can anyone on OS X confirm that the umask is something like 0022 and not something like 0044 or 0066?
16:36 btyler_ 0022, OSX 10.9.4
16:36 pyrimidine TimToady: on my MBP it’s 0022
16:36 pyrimidine same as btyler_
16:37 cognome joined #perl6
16:37 colomon TimToady: Building f1edae0be91da7b9faaee0e247be5db276ac770c on OS X 10.8.5 worked fine
16:37 colomon 0022 here as well
16:38 TimToady well, and that wouldn't explain it, since tools/build/create-moar-runner.pl does a chmod 0755 anyway
16:41 TimToady oh, and it's the 'perl -MExtUtils::Command -e cp perl6-m perl6' that fails, anyway
16:43 pmurias joined #perl6
16:43 pmurias daxim_: which language are you transpiling?
16:46 pmurias daxim_: what do you want to turn your toy language into?
16:47 TimToady now here's the funny thing: my bulid doesn't actually run that command, presumably because I already have a symlink from perl6 -> perl6-m
16:47 TimToady *build
16:50 TimToady could a previous build of perl6-p or perl6-j be putting a perl6 out there that can't be overwritten, if there's no symlink?
16:51 TimToady (my symlink dates from, like, February or so...)
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17:35 [Coke] TimToady: second make never works any times. (Os x)
17:35 [Coke] gtodd: I don't know that one. is there a ticket?
17:43 TimToady is there already a perl6 file sitting there when it fails?
17:44 TimToady but then why does it fail that way, if it's just a file collision?
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17:51 TimToady okay, it doesn't do the m-runner-default because I said "make m-install", and m-runner-default is only called from "all"
17:52 TimToady I note that the m-runner-default rule doesn't do a CHMOD on the target; could the copy on OS X not be carrying over the executable permissions?
17:52 TimToady lemme just add a CHMOD there, maybe it will solve the problem
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17:59 dalek nqp-js: 52c8e38 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (3 files):
17:59 dalek nqp-js: Pass test 14 - while loops.
17:59 dalek nqp-js:
17:59 dalek nqp-js: Implement nqp ops: islt_n, isgt_n, add_i, sub_i, preinc, predec, postinc, postdec.
17:59 dalek nqp-js: And partially the ops: while, until, repeat_while, repeat_until.
17:59 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/52c8e3868a
18:01 [Coke] to be clear, you getting a "make file: write error" ?
18:01 TimToady yes, but you said a chmod then fixes it, I thought
18:02 TimToady can't hurt to have the chmod there, anyway
18:03 TimToady also told it to ignore errors on the cp, so maybe that will suppress the write error, but probably not
18:04 TimToady maybe it should try to rm what's there already
18:04 TimToady we don't know exactly what is giving make indigestion there
18:04 TimToady could even be something rotten in a variable
18:05 [Coke] "fix" is strong. I'm not saying it's dying on the chmod, I'm saying that after I do that, I can use the perl6 that's there.
18:05 [Coke] (don't know exactly) exactly! ;)
18:07 TimToady a write error could be caused by an invisible char in the filename that OS X gets upset at, I suppose, but that's a long shot
18:10 dalek nqp-js: bbd25fc | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
18:10 dalek nqp-js: Implement mod_n, isge_n, bitor_i, bitand_i, bitxor_i.
18:10 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/bbd25fc866
18:10 dalek nqp-js: 001ca80 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/bin/run_tests:
18:10 dalek nqp-js: Pass test 13.
18:10 dalek nqp-js:
18:10 dalek nqp-js: Implement the ops bitor_i, bitand_i, bitxor_i, mod_n, isge_n.
18:10 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/001ca80611
18:11 TimToady or what if, for some reason, someone has a symlink from perl6 to something unwritable?  that would produce these symptoms
18:11 TimToady an rm would fix that
18:12 FROGGS hmmm, I don't see any invisible char in my Makefile
18:13 TimToady you on OS X?
18:13 FROGGS no
18:13 guru joined #perl6
18:13 FROGGS I looked at the templates and my generated Makefile on linux
18:14 FROGGS from #moarvm: <rurban> ExtUtils::Command cp is usually the culprit, dropping the -x perm
18:14 TimToady in the old days, we had to make our own symlink to perl6, so if someone remade in an old directory that had a symlink to a root-owned directory, it could cause this
18:15 TimToady I will put in a rm as well
18:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 79fc622 | coke++ | docs/ChangeLog:
18:16 dalek rakudo/nom: minor updates
18:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/79fc6227f9
18:20 dalek rakudo/nom: 3bb45b7 | TimToady++ | tools/build/Makefile-Moar.in:
18:20 dalek rakudo/nom: make sure we don't have perl6 symlink, chmod 755
18:20 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3bb45b7fed
18:20 TimToady anyone on OS X care to try that?
18:20 TimToady unfortunately, requires a reconfig
18:20 TimToady then a make all
18:23 TimToady Randa
18:23 TimToady RandalSchwartz: I may have fixe it in HEAD
18:23 TimToady *ed
18:23 huf for a second there i was really confused... didnt think you spoke that language :D
18:24 cognome joined #perl6
18:24 TimToady it's amazing what happens when your corpus colossum misfires and you type Return instead of Tab
18:25 rurban I'll try
18:26 TimToady thanks
18:26 dalek nqp: 4a8fe9f | coke++ | VERSION:
18:26 dalek nqp: bump VERSION to 2014.08
18:26 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4a8fe9fe48
18:31 tgt The write error still happens here. I ended up with an executable perl6 this time though.
18:31 TimToady huh
18:32 TimToady perhaps an educational message is in order
18:32 tgt The write error also happens when just running m-all.
18:33 TimToady which command does it happen on?
18:33 tgt After M_RUNNER
18:34 * colomon wonders if this is the same write error he's been getting seemingly forever….
18:35 RandalSchwartz TimToady - cool!
18:36 RandalSchwartz running fetch-n-make now
18:36 btyler_ still have a write error here as well
18:36 TimToady maybe M-RUNNER needs the chmod too
18:37 rurban me too
18:37 RandalSchwartz different write error now
18:37 colomon is this the write error in make install?
18:37 RandalSchwartz perl -MExtUtils::Command -e chmod 755 perl6
18:38 colomon after bin/perl6 has been installed?
18:38 RandalSchwartz happens because of that or shortly after that.  hard to tell
18:38 tgt The write error happens after the last thing run.
18:38 RandalSchwartz that's the line just before the error
18:39 RandalSchwartz perl6 had just been updated
18:39 rurban I get it with osx make and a new gmake from macports
18:39 colomon When I spent time trying to debug this months ago, I concluded it was happeneing after the last thing run was done.
18:39 RandalSchwartz yeah - I'm using gmake from ports
18:39 colomon and yes, it's still happening even with the latest
18:39 colomon (latest rakudo, that is)
18:40 rurban I have no idea how to repro it easily (other than make clean)
18:41 * colomon apologizes to TimToady++ for not reporting this earlier -- this bug has been happening forever and a day, and so didn't think it could be what TimToady was looking for.
18:41 PerlJam greetings #perl6
18:41 dalek rakudo/nom: bc6a32a | TimToady++ | tools/build/Makefile-Moar.in:
18:41 dalek rakudo/nom: insurance on mode of perl6-m as well
18:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bc6a32acb7
18:41 rurban yes, maybe that
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18:43 rurban repro with rm perl6.moarvm; gmake ... gmake: write error
18:43 [Coke] the system make is gnu make also, same problem, RandalSchwartz.
18:44 TimToady let's keep our eyes peeled for other things like this that we've just put up with, but we wouldn't want to inflict on Real Users
18:44 TimToady we need to start minimizing the cultural hurdles to adoption
18:45 TimToady well, s/start/continue/
18:47 colomon TimToady: to be fair, if I could have figured out how to fix that, I would have months ago.  It's a major PITA for me.
18:47 colomon And it's still happening with bc6a32acb7afbcfa32b92f868609ac9e4814c3e9
18:48 [Sno] joined #perl6
18:48 colomon when I did look into it, I think the conclusion was it was most likely a bug in OS X's make.
18:49 PerlJam Is someone building R* for macports or fink or whatever is commonly used these days?
18:49 colomon Hmmm…. http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-01-20
18:49 colomon sorry, http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-01-20#i_8144630
18:50 FROGGS I think this is relevant: http://openbsd.7691.n7.nabble.com/gmake-quot-write-error-quot-and-possible-solution-td81450.html
18:50 colomon also http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-04-28#i_8647503
18:53 colomon FROGGS: this, then? http://www.mail-archive.com/commits%40crater.dragonflybsd.org/msg02534.html
18:55 * colomon has no idea how to go from that (which seems relevant) to something useful
18:55 rurban could repro colomon's behavior, still the write error wit latest. but it's no big deal as it's only noise. they say it only happens with threaded kids (moar most likely)
18:56 FROGGS colomon: I was just thinking that we do not set the stderr/stdout to nonblock in MoarVM and see if the problem goes away
18:56 FROGGS just to know if that causes it
18:56 rurban yes, sounds like a good idea
18:57 colomon rurban: it actually is an issue, because it messes up rakudobrew's default behavior (mostly rebootstrapping panda) after a rebuild.  (Not to mention general unfriendliness to newcomers, as TimToady++ points out.)
18:57 rurban ooh, then we need a ticket
18:58 FROGGS no, a solution :P
18:58 tgt PerlJam R* used to be packaged for homebrew on OS X, but hasn't been updated since 2014.04 and only provided Parrot and JVM.
18:58 FROGGS would be cool if someone would comment these two lines and then test again:
18:58 TimToady a ticket might precipitate a solution
18:58 FROGGS /home/froggs/dev/MoarVM/src/io/fileops.c:346:            ((uv_stream_t *)handle)->flags = 0x80; /* UV_STREAM_BLOCKING */
18:58 FROGGS /home/froggs/dev/MoarVM/src/io/fileops.c:358:            ((uv_stream_t *)handle)->flags = 0x80; /* UV_STREAM_BLOCKING */
18:59 FROGGS (and I hope this does not break rakudo's build)
18:59 rurban so gmake wants to write, but moarvm still held a short O_NONBLOCK on stdout
18:59 TimToady maybe a sleep would fix it?
18:59 FROGGS though... we do the opposite of what the openbsd folks say...
18:59 FROGGS a nap? :D
19:00 TimToady if it's some kind of race condition, lose the race :)
19:01 klaas-janstol joined #perl6
19:01 Possum joined #perl6
19:01 rurban or maybe it's stderr
19:01 colomon FROGGS: trying it now
19:02 FROGGS thanks
19:02 TimToady maybe just exec 'stty sane' when you're done :)
19:03 TimToady or type 'sync' three times
19:04 TimToady well, how 'bout when we 'make all', we really call our make recursively, and grep the error out of the output :)
19:04 TimToady or hey, just write our own make in Perl 6...oh wait...
19:05 TimToady does this fail only if you use -j?
19:05 rjbs- How does (undefine @a[0]) differ from (delete @a[0]) in p6?
19:05 rjbs joined #perl6
19:06 TimToady the latter removes the container rather than storing something undefined in it
19:06 [Coke] m: my @a=<a b c>; my @b=<a b c>; (undefine @a[0]); (delete @b[0]); say @a.perl; say @b.perl;
19:06 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/f3frEpMAH1â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    delete used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
19:07 colomon FROGGS: nope, still get a write error
19:07 [Coke] m: my @a=<a b c>; my @b=<a b c>; (undefine @a[0]); (@b[0]:delete); say @a.perl; say @b.perl;
19:07 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«Array.new(Any, "b", "c")␤Array.new(Any, "b", "c")␤»
19:07 FROGGS colomon: okay, good to know :o)
19:07 colomon though maybe at a slightly different spot?
19:07 colomon after /Users/colomon/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.18.0/bin/perl -MExtUtils::Command -e chmod 755 perl6
19:07 TimToady oh, well, you have to use :delete
19:07 FROGGS my guess it that it failes when make shuts down
19:07 FROGGS fails*
19:07 [Coke] ugh. jvm makes releases slow. :(
19:08 FROGGS [Coke]: very true :/
19:08 [Coke] so unless the thing in slot 0 is a container, no diff?
19:08 rjbs [Coke]: I'm not seeing a difference..?
19:08 TimToady hmm
19:08 TimToady well, I could be rwong
19:08 * [Coke] wonders why we have .pm and .pm6 files in lib/
19:08 rjbs (I ask because we're once again chatting happily about delete on arrays in p5. ;)
19:09 [Coke] rjbs: in my simple example, I see no diff in the current impl, no.
19:09 [Coke] maybe if something was bound to [0], it'd be different?
19:10 colomon FROGGS: yes, that seems correct
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19:11 TimToady delete calls nqp::bindpos($items, pos, nqp::null());
19:11 rjbs Let me strongly caution you that repeating the bizarre behavior of p5 will lead to confusion!
19:11 rjbs m: my %h = (0 => 0, 1 => 1); %h<0>:delete; %h.keys.say; my @a = <<0 1>>; @a[0]:delete; @a.keys.say
19:11 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«1␤0 1␤»
19:12 TimToady so it's different, but it just apparently reports Any as the default
19:12 gfldex joined #perl6
19:12 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a[1]:delete; @a[1] = 42;
19:12 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: ( no output )
19:12 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a[1]:delete; @a[1] = 42; say @a
19:12 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«a 42 c␤»
19:13 TimToady I guess the assignment is smart enough to put a container back
19:13 [Coke] nqp - jvm test: 691s, moar: 20s, parrot: 59s
19:13 prevost joined #perl6
19:14 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a[1]:delete; nqp::iscont(@a[1]).say
19:14 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:14 TimToady hmm, or that line isn't doing what it claims to be doing...
19:15 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a.delete_pos(1); nqp::iscont(@a[1]).say
19:15 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«1␤»
19:15 TimToady odd
19:16 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a.delete_pos(1); nqp::isnull(@a[1]).say
19:16 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«0␤»
19:16 TimToady maybe it's WHENCEing
19:17 TimToady I can't observe the particle in classical space without influencing the measurement :)
19:18 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a.delete_pos(1); say @a.exists_pos(1)
19:18 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«False␤»
19:18 TimToady there we go
19:18 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; undefine @a[1]; say @a.exists_pos(1)
19:18 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:18 TimToady rjbs: ^^^
19:18 FROGGS m: my @a = <a b c>; undefine @a[1]; say @a:exists
19:18 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«a (Any) c␤»
19:19 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; undefine @a[1]; say @a[1]:exists
19:19 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:19 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a[1]:delete; say @a[1]:exists
19:19 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«False␤»
19:19 TimToady so actually much as I originally did it in Perl 5
19:19 TimToady this behavior is, of course, not guaranteed for alternate Array types
19:20 rjbs :(
19:20 rjbs It smacks very much of "you can assign a single bit of magic data to any slot as long as it's undef and not at the end."
19:21 rjbs It's not a sparse array.  It's just bizarre-seeming.  Am I missing some use case?
19:21 TimToady wanting to know if a container is there because you're doing something low-level and fiddly
19:22 TimToady wanting to let arrays have semantics more like a hash
19:23 TimToady wanting to support these semantics for consistency with sparse arrays that might support it naturally
19:23 TimToady consistency with Perl 5 :P
19:23 [Coke] building an nqp release; has there EVER been a case where building from the tarball didn't work when the regular release did?
19:24 rjbs Could these possibly be consistent with "real" sparse arrays, though?  What will "keys" return on a sparse array?  And if it returns (say) (0, 1, 8, 111) then it's bizarre that a normal Array would reutrn (0..1111) but have !exists on some elements.
19:24 TimToady wanting to support sparse semantics when you happen to know that the sparsity is...sparse...
19:25 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a[1]:delete; say @a:p
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«a (Any) c␤»
19:25 [Coke] TimToady: do you have a ruling on https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=122347 ?
19:25 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a[1]:delete; say @a[]:p
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«0 => "a" 2 => "c"␤»
19:26 TimToady note the key is not there
19:26 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a[1]:delete; say @a[]:keys
19:26 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'keys' passed␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:2674␤  in block  at /tmp/l9XvIrt5Z9:1␤␤»
19:26 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; @a[1]:delete; say @a[]:k
19:26 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«0 2␤»
19:26 TimToady so yeah, on that point, it's consistent with sparse arrays
19:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: 3e205e7 | coke++ | / (6 files):
19:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/3e205e7e6e
19:27 rjbs m: my @a = <a b c>; @a[1]:delete; say @a.keys
19:27 camelia rakudo-moar f1edae: OUTPUT«0 1 2␤»
19:27 rjbs I guess I don't understand the distinction between (@a[]:k) and (@a.keys)
19:28 rjbs I generally find this to seem a lot more likely to confuse than to empower, but I will grant that you all have spent more time with the abstractions here than I.  In p5, though, it's a wreck.
19:28 TimToady [Coke]: I think it's fair for that to fail, and require the (NYI) Complex(Cool) type for that to work
19:29 TimToady but I could perhaps be argued into special casing that to work
19:30 TimToady well, most arrays aren't sparse, and so it's probably good that .keys ignores that for efficiency, and that it looks kind of defaulty, compared with adverbs
19:34 TimToady more than one way to do it, there's some saying about that I've heard...
19:36 TimToady while we all got distracted by the make problem, did anyone ever figure out what's up with the malloc problem?  is it a make clean issue?
19:37 TimToady version skew?
19:38 TimToady I guess both people who reported it are offline atm
19:42 rjbs What's the intended difference between @a.keys and @a[]:k?  I'll go read the synopsis...
19:42 TimToady actually, cognome++ and possible Mouq++ also reported it
19:43 TimToady the latter can be applied to any subscript to modify its output
19:43 TimToady on hashes too
19:44 TimToady so you could do a slice an return pairs, or keys, or kv or just values excluding the missing keys
19:44 TimToady sort of a small query language for slices, as it were
19:44 TimToady .keys is just a method
19:44 rjbs Hm.
19:44 rjbs The .keys method also returns the keys of all existing elements. For a multidimensional array each key is a list containing one value for each dimension.
19:44 rjbs ^-- S09
19:45 rjbs But in our "deleted an element" case, it's not doing that, is it? It's returning all keys.
19:45 TimToady yes, well, obviously the implementation doesn't agree with the spec, or vice versa :)
19:46 TimToady that bit of spec was probably written before we had :k
19:46 TimToady so might be a fossil
19:46 rjbs Okay.  Above, you said "it's probably good that .keys ignores that" and I thought you meant to say .keys should keep including all, and :k should keep not.
19:47 TimToady well, there oughta be some way of deriving the range, maybe .keys is that
19:47 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; say @a.keys.WHAT
19:47 camelia rakudo-moar bc6a32: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
19:47 TimToady actually, it isn't :)
19:47 rjbs I'd expect confusion when teaching, then, though.
19:48 rjbs "You can write :k instead of .keys, but if there is any chance that the array is meant to be treated differently because of sparsity, you can't."
19:48 rjbs Or the other way around, rather.
19:49 TimToady well, a good argument could be made for either side of that
19:50 TimToady m: my @a = <a b c>; say (^@a).WHAT;  # the normal way to get the range
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar bc6a32: OUTPUT«(Range)␤»
19:50 TimToady so I guess .keys could be sparse too
19:50 rjbs S09 calls indexing discontinuities "a source of subtle runtime errors." :)
19:50 TimToady otoh, .keys wants to be efficient, and ranges are much more efficient than scanning
19:51 rjbs So, say I want a sparse array.  What do I get from some sort of use of @array+delete+exists versus an ordered hash with non-negative integer keys?
19:51 rjbs I imagine that I can't use negative subscripting, for example, on such a hash.
19:51 rjbs Is there much else?
19:51 timotimo you're aware of how we do negative subscripting in perl6?
19:52 rjbs uses a splat, right?
19:52 rjbs beyond that, probably no, not
19:52 TimToady we really need to finish implementing S09 and playing with it to see where the actual concerns arise most frequently; until then, we're just kind of guessing
19:52 masak +1
19:53 rjbs Sure.  I just urge you to consider how it worked in p5: not well.
19:53 rjbs Obviously p6 jiggers a lot of jankle all around, so things may be different.  So far, I'm not convinced they will be.
19:53 rjbs (on this point)
19:53 TimToady but where there be dragons, sometimes we try to design fences, and sometimes we just tell them to go visit the doctor afterwords, if they survive
19:54 raiph joined #perl6
19:54 TimToady at the moment sparse arrays are still in the Here Be Dragons part of the map
19:55 TimToady S09 provides for an interaction of [] and {} subscripting that hasn't been tested yet in battle
19:56 masak that bit I'm not so worried about, though.
19:56 masak because it's conservative in the sense that it doesn't mess with what we already have.
19:56 masak I was always a bit apprehensive about the multidim stuff, though.
19:56 masak but even that seems to be falling into place a bit now.
19:57 TimToady m: say (<a b c>;<d e f>)
19:57 camelia rakudo-moar bc6a32: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Ni3exnPPs5�Unsupported use of ; in brackets as a statement sequence; in this and future versions please use SEQ(;) or $(;) for C comma semantics (or set LOLLY for the new list-of-list semantics fo…»
19:57 TimToady I guess we don't set LOLLY in camelia
19:58 [Coke] m: say 691/60
19:58 camelia rakudo-moar bc6a32: OUTPUT«11.516667␤»
19:58 TimToady m: my @a = [<a b c>],[<d e f>], [<g h i>]; say @a[*;1]
19:58 camelia rakudo-moar bc6a32: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/0nHQ3whlPT�Unsupported use of ; in brackets as a statement sequence; in this and future versions please use SEQ(;) or $(;) for C comma semantics (or set LOLLY for the new list-of-list semantics fo…»
19:58 TimToady and I broke multidim subscripts without LOLLY
19:58 TimToady because they both go through the semilist rule
19:59 TimToady and I couldn't be bothered to distinguish who called the rule :)
19:59 [Coke] m:  my $a = "oh hai"; say $a .= "uc"();
19:59 camelia rakudo-moar bc6a32: OUTPUT«No such method '' for invocant of type 'Str'␤  in method dispatch:<.=> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1215␤  in block  at /tmp/iZ4eFdNsM5:1␤␤»
19:59 TimToady arguably camelia should have LOLLY semantics
19:59 PerlJam +1
19:59 TimToady or there should be a way to get them if you want them
20:00 TimToady can't set anything that nqp will see in an envvar though; we tried that
20:00 [Coke] arguably, camelia should behave like an out of the box build.
20:00 TimToady arguably we shouldn't be shipping two different versions as if they were one version, but that's what we've done :)
20:01 PerlJam LOLLY should be "out of the box" IMHO
20:01 [Coke] m: %*ENV<LOLLY>=1; my @a = [<a b c>],[<d e f>], [<g h i>]; say @a[*;1]
20:01 camelia rakudo-moar bc6a32: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/w9xhbXNKzZ�Unsupported use of ; in brackets as a statement sequence; in this and future versions please use SEQ(;) or $(;) for C comma semantics (or set LOLLY for the new list-of-list semantics fo…»
20:01 [Coke] TimToady: I blame you :P
20:01 [Coke] I'm just closing my eyes; it'll all be over as soon as I cut this release...
20:01 TimToady the purpose of non-LOLLY is to lolligag on all the obsolete lollipops for one release
20:02 TimToady and that doesn't really apply to camelia, since people here know about LOLLY
20:02 [Coke] hoelzro: the pod tickets in RT could use some lovin.
20:02 TimToady right, we can actually remove LOLLY as soon as you've got it out
20:03 TimToady except we have to leave the #!LOLLY skips in for a month or so
20:03 TimToady since we share the same test suite over all versions currently
20:03 TimToady afaik
20:03 zakharyas joined #perl6
20:03 TimToady or do we tag that too?
20:04 masak s/currently/, thank heavens/
20:04 Sqirrel_ joined #perl6
20:04 TimToady well, a snapshot of the tests that were there when we released would not be that hard to manage
20:05 TimToady and it would automatically update if the move to HEAD and reconfig
20:05 TimToady *they
20:05 [Coke] .ask masak if he can provide some runnable files for https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=88144
20:05 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to masak.
20:05 TimToady I don't see much harm in that
20:05 TimToady um, masak++ is right here
20:05 [Coke] test suite is not tagged. (we'd do it the other way, we'd keep a snapshot of what rev to use in the impl, I think)
20:06 TimToady isn't that what I said?
20:06 TimToady well, okay, I see what you're saying
20:06 [Coke] clearly I'm a few minutes behind, you've already established that.
20:07 TimToady I meant "tagged" in an abstract sense
20:07 [Coke] nqp-jvm: say("HWHY YOU SO SLOW?");
20:07 camelia nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«(signal )#␤# There is insufficient memory for the Java Runtime Environment to continue.␤# pthread_getattr_np␤# An error report file with more information is saved as:␤# /home/p6eval/hs_err_pid10698.log␤»
20:07 [Coke] m)
20:07 hoelzro [Coke]: I'm hoping we can close a bunch after S26-WHY is merged
20:07 hoelzro and I can probably work on outstanding ones too
20:08 [Coke] thank you. rt is getting longer, and longer...
20:08 hoelzro =/
20:10 TimToady hmm, how come git describe doesn't work in roast?
20:10 [Coke] no tags?
20:11 [Coke] p6: sub s_s(*%n)  { %n>>.say }; s_s(|{:assoc<list>}, :assoc<left>);
20:11 camelia rakudo-jvm bc6a32: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:11 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«left␤»
20:11 camelia ..rakudo-parrot bc6a32: OUTPUT«duplicate named argument in call␤  in block  at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
20:11 camelia ..rakudo-moar bc6a32: OUTPUT«list␤»
20:12 [Coke] ... wow, it's getting worse.
20:12 TimToady pugs: sub s_s(*%n)  { %n>>.say }; s_s(|{:assoc<list>}, :assoc<left>);
20:12 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«left␤assoc␤»
20:12 TimToady there's another variant :)
20:13 masak [Coke]: I'm thinking we might just want to close https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=88144
20:13 yoleaux 20:05Z <[Coke]> masak: if he can provide some runnable files for https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=88144
20:13 masak [Coke]: I've never had that issue since, and it's likely semantics have shifted since I posted that.
20:13 [Coke] want me to do it?
20:13 [Coke] ok.
20:15 [Coke] masak++
20:16 [Coke] r: ord.Cool
20:16 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} bc6a32: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Calling 'ord' requires arguments (if you meant to operate on $_, please use .ord or use an explicit invocant or argument)â�¤    Expected: :(Cool $s)â�¤at /tmp/tmpfile:1â�¤----…»
20:17 [Coke] LHF: write a test for RT #114014
20:17 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=114014
20:18 tgt make finishes happily if I run make > somefile. I tried running more and more stages of the Makefile and running up to the first line of PERL6_M_MOAR, but removing the > src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp causes it to say make: *** [m-all] Segmentation fault: 11 (followed by the write error, which doesn't happen running stages prior to that). I don't know if either of those things point towards any solution?
20:21 Akagi201_ joined #perl6
20:21 [Coke] nqp 2014.08 is cut, pushed to the web site.
20:22 PerlJam Coke++
20:22 gtodd whee!
20:23 gtodd [Coke]: re: above buggy build bits for clang/FreeBSD and parrot's differing version of nqp's dyncall ....   I don't think there was a ticket
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: 7400451 | coke++ | docs/announce/2014.08.md:
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: finalize(?) release announcement
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/740045150b
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: a142e6c | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: Minsk!
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a142e6c603
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: bf95889 | coke++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump NQP revision
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bf95889f7f
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: a88cca7 | coke++ | VERSION:
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump VERSION
20:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a88cca7b07
20:29 timotimo yay release, [Coke]++
20:32 PerlJam The release announcement looks to have a minor rendering problem.   "Make &infix: many times faster"  The <xx> part seems to have disappeared.
20:32 PerlJam (looking at the release announcement on github)
20:33 PerlJam oh, same thing for the third bullet,  <a b c> disappears
20:34 timotimo ah >_<
20:38 gtodd but we need that for the alphabet to work
20:44 pyrimidine joined #perl6
20:44 dwarring joined #perl6
20:45 TimToady we still have most of it left
20:46 TimToady well, except for the part that's missing on the left...
20:46 [Coke] timotimo: not done yet.
20:46 [Coke] PerlJam: how to fix? \< \> ?
20:47 PerlJam [Coke]: I think so.
20:47 timotimo probably &lt; and &gt;
20:48 PerlJam The back slash works (I just tested it in a gist :)
20:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 0228cfb | coke++ | docs/announce/2014.08.md:
20:49 dalek rakudo/nom: fix rendering of release announcement.
20:49 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:49 dalek rakudo/nom: PerlJam++
20:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0228cfb6b1
20:52 noganex joined #perl6
20:54 masak yes, Markdown is pretty consistent at having backslashes mean "not magic".
21:05 timotimo OK
21:07 mj41 joined #perl6
21:08 Ven joined #perl6
21:12 woolfy left #perl6
21:16 btyler joined #perl6
21:28 mads- joined #perl6
21:29 mads- raiph: Thanks for you reply on my reddit post. I will just hangout a bit and get the feel of it here before jumping in too deep :)
21:30 FROGGS hi mads
21:30 timotimo mads-: is that the thread about building your own language?
21:32 mads- timotimo: no no. I'm having a little trouble finding a good topic for my masters thesis. I love programming languages, and I'm going to write for the PL group. But I am just empty for ideas
21:32 mads- and hi FROGGS o/
21:32 FROGGS :o)
21:32 timotimo oh, ok
21:32 FROGGS mads-: I think you found an ideal place here :o)
21:33 mads- I'd reckon I just ghost it out a bit. I imagine you guys are going to throw ideas around anyways
21:36 FROGGS mads-: just follow the discussions here, there are often esote^Winteresting topics
21:37 dalek nqp-js: 75d2942 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
21:37 dalek nqp-js: Implement neg_i, div_i
21:37 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/75d2942263
21:37 dalek nqp-js: 26dc64a | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
21:37 dalek nqp-js: Implement nqp::substr.
21:37 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/26dc64a09f
21:37 dalek nqp-js: 09b7d19 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
21:37 dalek nqp-js: Implement nqp::not_i.
21:37 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/09b7d19a26
21:37 dalek nqp-js: a241203 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
21:37 dalek nqp-js: Implement nqp::iseq_i
21:37 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/a24120379d
21:37 dalek nqp-js: 085443a | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
21:37 dalek nqp-js: Implement nqp::abs_i.
21:37 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/085443ad13
21:37 dalek nqp-js: c2fdcd5 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (2 files):
21:37 dalek nqp-js: Implement nqp::escape.
21:37 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/c2fdcd5df5
21:38 pmurias FROGGS: does Perl 6 have many orginal PL ideas or does it mostly bring existing good one together?
21:39 FROGGS pmurias: well, it is hard to invent new stuff the does not surprise too much ppl
21:39 FROGGS so it is more of the latter
21:39 timotimo hmm. is slangs new? perhaps not. how about junctions? probably also an old concept to some
21:39 FROGGS it is the mix of them, put into a single sane framework
21:39 donaldh joined #perl6
21:41 pmurias I haven't seen junctions anywhere else
21:59 avuserow joined #perl6
22:02 timotimo i bet haskell has something for that :)
22:05 diakopter joined #perl6
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: 66bd0b6 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: Remove useless comments
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/66bd0b61e2
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: 385d044 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | src/ (3 files):
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: Make $param.WHY work early on in the compiler
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/385d044ef1
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: aeb8c56 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: Remove Method.clone override
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY:
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: Apparently it's no longer necessary?
22:05 dalek rakudo/S26-WHY: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aeb8c5676b
22:07 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 96 commits to rakudo/S26-WHY by hoelzro
22:07 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 138 commits to roast/S26-WHY by hoelzro
22:31 Psyche^ joined #perl6
22:35 pmurias timotimo: junctions seem very unhaskelly, they allow you to put a special value in place of a normal one and let the magic happen
22:37 timotimo hmm
22:37 timotimo OK, so they'll probably have something very sterile to simulate value superpositions instead
22:49 eternaleye joined #perl6
22:50 [Coke] URK. stresstest is actually multiple prove runs, meaning I will have no idea what failed.
22:50 gtodd mads-: for sure write about perl6 :-)
22:53 RandalSchwartz did the make error get fixed yet?
22:55 [Coke] nope.
22:55 [Coke] it remains as elusive to fix as it has been, unfortunately.
22:57 xragnar_ joined #perl6
22:58 mads- gtodd: I wouldn't mind. But I don't think just writing about perl6 is specific enough for a topic :P
22:58 RandalSchwartz weird
22:58 RandalSchwartz and why only the moar build, and not the parrot build?
23:01 ponbiki joined #perl6
23:03 gtodd "Perl6: Specification by Example in Language Development "    :-P
23:03 gtodd heh
23:09 eternaleye joined #perl6
23:37 [Coke] hurm. it is not actually required as part of the release process to fudge roast, is it.
23:38 [Coke] I am tempted to leave it as is and point to the perl6-roast-data site if anyone has questions about failing tests.
23:39 xenoterracide joined #perl6
23:39 colomon it's at least a friendly thing to do for the release.  but it's a pain, too.
23:52 [Coke] ok. if I have a build with 3 different vms, how do I run a fudged test for one backend?
23:53 [Coke] normally I'd do "prove -v -e t/fudgeandrun path/to/file.t"
23:53 diakopter can you give a backend to fudgeandrun?
23:54 xenoterracide joined #perl6

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