Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-08-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 timotimo you can make m-spectest/p-spectest/j-spectest
00:03 TimToady btw, I'm still getting a looping test on JVM, S02-lexical-conventions/comments.rakudo.jvm
00:03 immortal joined #perl6
00:03 TimToady that one might be worth a fudge
00:04 TimToady no other hangs in the entire suite for moar or parrot
00:06 timotimo hm.
00:07 timotimo has anybody investigated patterns that supply a candidate for the "new" method with a defined invocant and do stuff based on that?
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00:14 [Coke] timotimo: yes, that takes hours. I want to run -one- test. :)
00:14 [Coke] I will just swap out the ./perl6 for the one with the vm I want.
00:18 timotimo oh, right ...
00:20 dalek roast: b1f2b22 | TimToady++ | S02-lexical-conventions/comments.t:
00:20 dalek roast: skip a test that hangs on jvm
00:20 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b1f2b22ce1
00:21 TimToady there also something going wrong with todo annotions on throws_like, it's slipping an extra todo() call into the middle of the statement for some reason
00:21 TimToady *tations
00:21 TimToady but that wasn't causing the hang, just noticed it en passant
00:24 TimToady when I want to run an individual test, I just do something like make m-spectest, wait for it to fudge everything, the ^C it and perl6 t/spec/roast/whatever
00:24 TimToady or I don't bother with the make part if I just want to run the .t
00:25 TimToady though with jvm I had to run it with install/bin/perl6-j
00:25 TimToady the runner in the nom directory didn't work
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00:35 [Coke] ff
00:35 [Coke] .
00:36 [Coke] Offs.
00:42 carlin you can `make t/spec/S0X/whatever/foo.t`
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01:06 dalek roast: 9a86cfb | TimToady++ | S02-lexical-conventions/comments.t:
01:06 dalek roast: avoid a todo bug in fudge
01:06 dalek roast:
01:06 dalek roast: for some non-obvious reason fudge puts an extra todo() on the X::Comp::Adhoc line
01:06 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9a86cfbcc4
01:06 TimToady carlin: that's just so wrong... :)
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01:17 [Coke] ... why the hell do we do releases off master? :P
01:18 dalek rakudo/nom: 5392029 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
01:18 dalek rakudo/nom: failing on rakudo.parrot, remove for release
01:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5392029219
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01:42 dalek roast: 5a33f7d | coke++ | S (8 files):
01:45 dalek roast: fudge for rakudo.parrot release
01:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5a33f7dc94
01:46 japhb Reading the changelog ... why was postcirmcumfix:<( )> changed to .invoke?  (I don't have much of an opinion on this, I'm just curious.)
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02:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 5dd10bb | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
02:24 dalek rakudo/nom: This test is very fiddly, disable for release.
02:24 dalek rakudo/nom:
02:24 dalek rakudo/nom: On moar/linux, it only runs 5 of the 6 tests,
02:24 dalek rakudo/nom: making it oddly difficult to fudge.
02:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5dd10bbc9f
02:25 dalek roast: 1268aba | coke++ | S32-list/uniq.t:
02:25 dalek roast: fudge for rakudo.moar release
02:25 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1268aba01e
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03:00 pyrimidine TimToady: re: the “pointer being freed was not allocated” malloc problem, it works if I run ‘make LOLLY=1’
03:01 pyrimidine (also, the make error now seems to be gone, I suppose that got whacked today)
03:10 [Coke] (still running java tests. :P)
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03:22 TimToady yeah, those take a while, and aren't pretty, last I looked
03:22 TimToady which was earlier today
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03:58 hoelzro m: subset EvenNum of Num where { $_ %% 2 }; EvenNum === EvenNum
03:58 camelia rakudo-moar 5dd10b: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤  in method isNaN at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4988␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4134␤  in sub infix:<===> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5241␤  in block  at /tmp/9Bajy14gBm:1␤␤»
03:58 hoelzro I rebased S26-WHY onto nom earlier today, and some of the tests fail with this error
03:59 hoelzro git bisect points to a82c4076057fb543ec5bd56b06be1ffd67796f26
03:59 raiph joined #perl6
03:59 hoelzro but I'm trying to think of the best way to solve this
03:59 hoelzro Num === Num has the same issue
04:00 [Coke] no spec tests failed on nom with that change.
04:01 hoelzro I guess we have a new test to add then =
04:01 hoelzro =)
04:02 hoelzro it's kind of screwy that the multi resolver would even consider that new multi for the call
04:02 hoelzro but I don't necessarily understand it fully myself
04:05 hoelzro it seems we have some spam in RT: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=122592
04:06 [Coke] hoelzro: gone.
04:06 hoelzro thanks [Coke]
04:08 hoelzro reported my bug to RT: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=1225​93&amp;results=53c3caa3c52232fce1cef8f92b4bb35c
04:08 hoelzro we can deal with it in the morning =)
04:08 hoelzro just wanted to let others know
04:08 hoelzro bed &
04:20 [Coke] (still running java tests. :P)
04:21 TimToady are you running them one at a time?
04:23 [Coke] make j-stresstest.
04:23 TimToady though, to be sure, you can't run as many jvm jobs in parallel because TEST_JOBS=2 uses almost 400% of a cpu
04:23 TimToady ah
04:24 [Coke] made the mistake of setting test jobs too high, I think.
04:25 [Coke] really wish I could have done this release on my mac. (16Gig/8core) as opposed to the daily test box, a linux box with 4mb/2core
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05:04 TimToady running it at TEST_JOBS=3 puts my load average on my 6-core to over 5
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05:13 TimToady I'm up to S17 and so far it's failed about 20 tests
05:15 TimToady and it's hung
05:15 TimToady no, suddenly made progress again
05:15 TimToady one forgest how slow S17 is
05:16 TimToady t/spec/S06-other/main-usage.rakudo.jvm came out way late, must've hung and timed out, I'm guessin'
05:22 [Coke] yay, done, now I can fudge...
05:23 TimToady I'm on S32 now
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05:27 TimToady though load avg now about 7.5 on my 6 cores...
05:28 TimToady so 3 jobs is about the limit for 6 cores
05:28 TimToady (and 8 gig)
05:29 TimToady main java process is 7 gig, half of it resident
05:29 TimToady good thing this'll be done before I start streaming Sophia...
05:36 [Coke] .tell lizmat - had to fudge some of the new throws_like tests for parrot & jvm.
05:36 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
05:40 TimToady lemme know when you're done fudging, and I can run another "quick" stresstest
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06:17 [Coke] j: my $hash = { '1' => { '2' => 3, '4' => 5 }, };
06:17 camelia rakudo-jvm 5dd10b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
06:17 [Coke] j: say "OIU@#P$OU#@KJSDF:LKDJSF";
06:17 camelia rakudo-jvm 5dd10b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/88SqaM8twKâ�¤Variable '$OU' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/88SqaM8twK:1â�¤------> [32msay "OIU@#P$OU[33mâ��[31m#@KJSDF:LKDJSF";[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
06:20 TimToady your first snippet works fine here
06:21 [Coke] if you could try to fudge t/spec/S06-other/anon-hashes-vs-blocks.t
06:21 [Coke] for rakudo.jvm, I would appreciate it.
06:23 TimToady okay
06:24 [Coke] It barfs all over me here, and a naive #?rakudo.jvm emit skip_rest() doesn't cut it.
06:25 TimToady it barfs on my laptop, recompiling on my 6-core at the moment
06:31 TimToady ooh, there's a lollipop in it
06:31 TimToady but setting LOLLY doesn't fix it
06:32 TimToady oh, it's not a lollipop, it's a block {;}
06:32 TimToady hmm
06:33 [Coke] lot of S17 failures under load that work fine one at a time. :(
06:37 dalek roast: db19c85 | TimToady++ | S06-other/anon-hashes-vs-blocks.t:
06:37 dalek roast: jvm chokes on compiling a {;}
06:37 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/db19c85d01
06:37 TimToady anything else?
06:39 [Coke] t/spec/S05-mass/properties-general.t
06:39 [Coke] t/spec/S05-mass/rx.t
06:39 [Coke] those both generate some JVM opcode dump.
06:40 [Coke] nearly done with the other 20+ files
06:41 TimToady weird errors, we don't have postcircumfix {} anymore...
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06:50 [Coke] thanks for db19c85! very helpful.
06:54 TimToady something about the Khmer chars at the end
06:56 [Coke] good find.
06:57 dalek roast: adc10fd | coke++ | / (23 files):
06:57 dalek roast: fudge for rakudo.jvm release
06:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/adc10fd62b
06:57 sergot hi o/
06:57 [Coke] hi, o
06:58 TimToady I'm starting to think it's just too many things, some of the locals #'s are approaching 65536
07:00 [Coke] ok. I fudged everything else (I think). I'm going forward with the release.
07:00 TimToady yeah, simply putting the 6 khmers in a block fixes it
07:02 dalek roast: 9a3ca7d | TimToady++ | S05-mass/properties-general.t:
07:02 dalek roast: put some tests in a block to cut # of locals
07:02 dalek roast:
07:02 dalek roast: seems to be hitting a size limit on the jvm
07:02 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9a3ca7d6c6
07:08 dalek roast: 94406c9 | TimToady++ | S05-mass/rx.t:
07:08 dalek roast: more blockification to avoid jvm overflow
07:08 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/94406c965c
07:08 TimToady okay, those two should be good to go for now
07:08 masak good #perl6, antenoon
07:09 TimToady must be about 10:00 am there..
07:09 TimToady or are you in Sophia?
07:11 TimToady firing off a stresstest
07:14 * [Coke] pulls the trigger on the release.
07:16 masak [Coke]++ # release
07:16 masak TimToady: I am in Sofia.
07:16 masak TimToady: and a lot of other eerily familiar people, too.
07:17 [Coke] TimToady++ thank you very much for helping with the fudging.
07:19 TimToady well, I was up anyway, waiting for the live-streaming to maybe work
07:20 * TimToady plans to take a nap between lichtkind++ and jnthn++
07:20 masak :)
07:21 [Coke] is the live streaming getting recorded?
07:22 TimToady I rather suspect they plan to--whether they succeed is another matter...
07:23 TimToady and then there's the small matter of recording the background cosmic radiation instead of jnthn...
07:24 TimToady *cosmic background
07:24 moritz where's the stream?
07:24 * TimToady suggests that jnthn++ use the wireless mic, and then it doesn't much matter if the hardwired is on too
07:25 TimToady http://blogs.perl.org/users/yap​ceu/2014/08/live-streaming.html
07:25 TimToady the other way around is...problematic
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07:26 * [Coke] goes to sleep. laters.
07:27 masak \o
07:28 TimToady o/
07:30 * masak thinkos s/comb/chars/, not for the first time
07:31 klaas-janstol joined #perl6
07:31 masak it seems especially easy to make that thinko after having written 'lines' :)
07:31 thou joined #perl6
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07:43 chenryn joined #perl6
07:50 sergot it has just started
07:50 sergot streaming I mean
07:51 FROGGS_ ohh!
07:53 moritz it began with the forging of the great streams
07:53 moritz three were given to the perl hackers, immortal, and fairest of all beings
07:53 moritz wait, that doesn't sound quit right :-)
07:54 sergot jnthn and masak are there!
07:54 sergot i can see them :0
07:54 TimToady what direction is teh camera facing?
07:55 TimToady and I dont mean "toward the audience" :P
07:55 FROGGS_ to the publikum :p
07:55 FROGGS_ wee
07:55 FROGGS_ err, eww
07:56 * masak waves to sergot
07:56 FROGGS_ hehe
07:56 FROGGS_ I saw it!
07:56 sergot once more masak !
07:56 FROGGS_ :D
07:56 FROGGS_ /o/
07:56 sergot thanks masak++ !
07:56 sergot :)
07:57 FROGGS_ yeah, praise our jnthn++ :o)
07:57 TimToady thanks for pointing out jnthn
07:57 FROGGS_ that man has stile (and a hat)
07:57 masak now jnthn realized that he can't show $sekkrit-project on his screen :)
07:57 TimToady are you guys facing north, south, east, or west?
07:58 masak good question. I have no sense of that.
07:58 TimToady no sound yet...
07:59 masak no, we're just all being very, very quiet :P
07:59 FROGGS_ souond \o/
08:00 masak FROGGS_: I shouted your name :)
08:00 TimToady FROGGS_: you have sound?
08:00 FROGGS_ TimToady: I had
08:00 masak wifi is slowing to a crawl now.
08:01 sergot I do bit
08:01 sergot not*
08:01 FROGGS_ masak: sorry, can't hear you :o)
08:01 TimToady everyone smile
08:01 sergot masak: is tadzik somewhere there?
08:02 FROGGS_ I so not spot him...
08:02 sergot yeah
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08:03 TimToady you'd think it'd be easier to get sound than pix
08:03 TimToady sound!
08:03 tadzik sergot: I am
08:04 tadzik managed to breach the absurd ping barrer
08:04 TimToady the roar of the greasepaint, the smell of the crowd!
08:04 TimToady blonk
08:04 TimToady ow
08:04 tadzik frankly, I don't know where masak is :o
08:04 sergot tadzik: where are you? :))
08:04 jnthn tadzik: He's on row 2, next to me :)
08:04 TimToady masak is on the left side, about 2 rows back
08:04 sergot tadzik: in the third (?) row on you left side
08:05 sergot your*
08:05 TimToady cute
08:06 * TimToady didn't come... :(
08:07 TimToady [Coke]: they said everything will be recorded
08:18 TimToady granada1
08:18 TimToady *!
08:18 jnthn Such palace... :)
08:19 * jnthn likes Granada
08:23 masak lichtkind up next!
08:24 TimToady Yes, sir!
08:24 TimToady so, at least I have some proxy hecklers on the 2nd row...
08:26 chenryn joined #perl6
08:28 sergot tadzik is hiding somewhere
08:28 tadzik I hid upstairs :)
08:29 sergot ;)
08:29 tadzik checking out speakers I don't know yet :)
08:31 * TimToady likes retinas
08:31 TimToady especially their plurality
08:32 thou joined #perl6
08:36 * TimToady wants to keep both sides of his brane
08:39 Ven joined #perl6
08:42 zakharyas1 joined #perl6
08:46 TimToady you don't count!
08:46 jnthn oh noes, I don't count
08:46 * TimToady wonders how much he's lagging realtime...
08:47 TimToady just got to Know More
08:47 jnthn yes, that's where it is here too :)
08:47 TimToady cool, it seems to be keeping up
08:48 jnthn I guess I should pick the same mic lichtkind is using, given it seems to work well with the streaming :)
08:48 TimToady if it's the wireless mic, it prevents tuning into the Universe At Large on the receiver
08:50 masak the xor slide looked wrong...
08:50 TimToady it did
08:51 TimToady doubling means "here be thunks", mostly
08:52 jnthn aye, I was gonna say, it's more short circuiting...
08:53 TimToady well, .succ and cmp are slightly related
08:54 FROGGS_ tadzik: is that you behind a guy with a white shirt "use perl or die" ?
08:55 TimToady should be false
08:56 jnthn ...except x was split into x and xx... :)
08:57 anaeem___ joined #perl6
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08:58 TimToady this is a bit strange
08:58 TimToady (parcel is like siggie)
08:58 TimToady what?
08:59 TimToady this is kinda nonsensical
08:59 jnthn yes, the | and || prefix bit was...kinda huh.
08:59 klaas-janstol joined #perl6
09:01 TimToady this about Range is nice
09:01 jnthn Yes, though I'm not quite sure I'd call it a scalar range; @a = 1..5 is not my $x = 1..5; @a = $x
09:05 TimToady @sum is wrongish
09:05 jnthn yeah; shoulda been a scalar...
09:06 masak m: say 2 S- 18
09:06 camelia rakudo-moar 5dd10b: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'postcircumfix:<( )>'␤  in block  at /tmp/KAbP5GiOlA:1␤␤»
09:06 TimToady NYI I believe
09:06 masak yeah.
09:06 jnthn That's an odd error.
09:07 pecastro joined #perl6
09:08 TimToady wow, already using lol composer
09:09 jnthn hah, wsa thinking NativeCall wsa busted with something, then found a post from somebody using the same API from C and getting the same issue.
09:09 * jnthn should trust NativeCall a little more :)
09:10 TimToady shoulda used eqv there
09:11 FROGGS ilogger2++ # taking notes for lichtkind
09:11 TimToady that's hanging in my liiving room
09:12 masak :)
09:12 masak is it a gnu?
09:12 TimToady yes, Free Software Award
09:12 masak ooh
09:12 TimToady a real trophy :)
09:13 * jnthn read "is it a gun" :P
09:13 TimToady a head, hanging on the wall
09:13 FROGGS [Coke]++ # release
09:13 nwc10 TimToady: pass (except t/spec/S32-list/uniq.rakudo.moar)
09:15 chenryn joined #perl6
09:16 Ven are we on?
09:17 TimToady are we on what?
09:17 * masak .oO( this is your brain on Perl 6. any questions? )
09:17 Ven I was wondering which stream was it that you were looking at
09:17 * TimToady will take a nap now
09:18 Ven oh, is it lunchtime now?
09:19 Ven ha, missed it.
09:19 jnthn Ven: yes, lunch
09:19 jnthn Ven: You can catch my session this afternoon :)
09:19 Ven I'm afraid the beach is more appealing to me :P
09:20 jnthn .oO( Well, that's a beach... )
09:20 Ven jnthn: which track is it? what hour :) ?
09:20 jnthn Room Vitosha
09:20 jnthn 14:50
09:20 tadzik FROGGS: I dunno, I was in the security talk
09:21 tadzik I don't think there was a use perl or die in fromt of me
09:21 Ven it's 12h20 for you there? So that I don't fail again :P
09:21 jnthn yes
09:21 FROGGS tadzik: ahh, no, I was watching markov's talk
09:21 fhelmberger joined #perl6
09:22 Ven Are there others Perl6 talks to look for?
09:22 * Ven goes on looking for a schedule
09:23 sergot Ven: jnthn will give a talk today
09:23 Ven sergot: you ought to backlog faster :P
09:23 sergot ohhh, sorry :)
09:24 TimToady jnthn++ talks in a little over two hours from now
09:25 jnthn TimToady: Talking in your nap? :)
09:25 TimToady yup
09:25 jnthn time to go find the lunch :)
09:25 masak sleep tight, TimToady
09:26 spider-mario joined #perl6
09:26 jnthn My talk might be a good sleeping aid :P
09:26 masak riiiiiight
09:27 FROGGS one Worthington, two Worthington, three.... ZZZzzzZZzzzz
09:27 kurahaupo joined #perl6
09:27 TimToady it's more about XXXxxxXXXxxx
09:30 Ven Well, did they get recorded?
09:30 Ven .tell cognome any updates for the FPW2014 talk videos :P?
09:30 yoleaux Ven: I'll pass your message to cognome.
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09:51 timotimo jnthns talk is going to happen soon, right?
09:53 timotimo oh, it's in a few hours
10:00 chenryn joined #perl6
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10:03 pmurias masak: when will be jnthn's sekkrit project unveiled?
10:04 Ven joined #perl6
10:10 pmurias jnthn: when do you plan to unveil $sekkrit-project?
10:17 Ven duh, doing common lisp ATM and I'd really like to have scheme-style templates.
10:20 thou joined #perl6
10:22 masak pmurias: there is no sekkrit project. what sekkrit project? I don't know what you're talking about. do not mention a sekkrit project again.
10:23 huf so the ufo _did_ land? and you guys are experimenting on it?
10:23 masak I am not at liberty to say!!!
10:23 masak I mean, no!
10:23 huf you pretty much just confirmed that _AND_ that you know who shot kennedy.
10:23 jnthn pmurias: What sekrit project? :P
10:24 masak told you :)
10:25 jnthn pmurias: In completely unrelated news, my talk is at 14:50 Bulgarian time (so 13:50 where you are,I guess) and will be live-streated :P
10:25 jnthn uh, streamed
10:25 nwc10 http://act.yapc.eu/ye2014/talk/5633
10:27 * masak .oO( live-streaked )
10:28 jnthn I'm not ingy :P
10:28 masak m: say "jnthn" === "ingy"
10:28 camelia rakudo-moar 5dd10b: OUTPUT«False␤»
10:28 masak no, you're not :)
10:29 nwc10 I assume that this channel will do live text commentary of anything interesting that may (or may not) happen in jnthn's talk
10:31 en Ooh. I like how perl6 is my 6th buffer... heheh.
10:31 en s/perl/#perl/
10:32 masak this is a general notice, completely unrelated to any excitement about jnthn's talk: a sekkrit project does *not* officially exist, and either way, it's sekkrit.
10:32 nwc10 can I just ask the NSA?
10:32 masak sssssh!
10:32 jnthn .oO( so long as he doesn't think of asking my SAN... )
10:33 * masak .oO( jnthn-san )
10:34 chenryn joined #perl6
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11:06 pmurias jnthn: why do we have both nqp::atpos and QAST::Var with scope eq
11:07 pmurias 'positional'
11:07 pmurias ?
11:11 Ven joined #perl6
11:11 tadzik sergot: I think HTTP::UA doesn't work for me because chunking
11:12 pmurias masak: do you think polyfilling Math.imul from the nqp runtime would be culturally acceptable in js land?
11:12 tadzik sergot: https://gist.github.com/ta​dzik/0fe43ae557ab02ff56a0
11:13 Ven I'm kinda afraid my internet is so bad I won't even be able to look at the livestream :P
11:14 sergot hmm
11:14 timotimo o/
11:14 sergot tadzik: so, you dont get an empty response?
11:14 sergot hi timotimo
11:14 Ven currently stuttering a lot ...
11:14 tadzik sergot: no, I just get headers only
11:14 tadzik like http-ua gave up on the rest of it
11:14 timotimo i'm seeing curtis poe on the stream now
11:15 lizmat Ven: FWIW, crystal clear reception here
11:15 yoleaux 05:36Z <[Coke]> lizmat: - had to fudge some of the new throws_like tests for parrot & jvm.
11:15 Ven lizmat: I'm def. blaming my internet connection -- nothing else :).
11:15 sergot we handle chunking outside the SSL module.
11:15 lizmat just saying you're probably right  :-)
11:15 sergot tadzik: so it should fail on non-ssl connection too.
11:16 sergot does it?
11:16 tadzik sergot: well, non-ssl don't call github, do they
11:16 sergot let's try something else
11:16 tadzik chunked transfers are supported, right?
11:16 sergot yes
11:17 sergot FROGGS++ has done this in HTTP::UA
11:17 sergot tadzik: https://github.com/sergot/http-useragent​/blob/master/lib/HTTP/UserAgent.pm6#L110
11:17 sergot it is here
11:18 tadzik I'll debug it
11:18 colomon Oh, right, YAPC::EU must be well underway by now?
11:19 sergot tadzik++
11:20 tadzik colomon: it is
11:20 tadzik it's actually my first time using perl6-debu
11:20 tadzik g
11:20 colomon tadzik: just found a schedule
11:21 prevost joined #perl6
11:22 colomon tadzik: jnthn's got a talk in 30 minutes?
11:22 tadzik colomon: yes
11:22 colomon \o/
11:22 lizmat http://yapc.getclouder.com/vitosha.html
11:22 colomon I was thinking I wouldn't be able to watch anything, but the timezone difference is very much to my advantage for afternoon talks.
11:22 lizmat should give you the stream
11:23 colomon tadzik++, lizmat++
11:23 tadzik sergot: tada! https://gist.github.com/ta​dzik/a149ff234286f05fbba8
11:23 tadzik it says Nil
11:24 sergot ohh
11:25 tadzik $response.header doesn't seem to have the chunked thingy inside
11:26 tadzik so it's like it read some of the headers, didn't see the chunked marker, so it fetched the rest of the headers and thought it's content
11:26 tadzik I'm half-guessing, but you get the idea
11:27 sergot I get it
11:27 sergot trying to fix this
11:27 tadzik awesome
11:27 tadzik ++sergot
11:28 tadzik "# Find the header/body separator in the chunk, which means we can parse the header seperately"
11:28 tadzik this doesn't seem to be doing what it claims to be doing :)
11:30 telex joined #perl6
11:33 sergot tadzik: seems like I have just fixed it... but... give me a sec
11:33 timotimo i looked a tiny bit at colomon's nativecall weirdness and couldn't figure out WTH happens yet.
11:33 sergot I think there should be if ~$response..... 'chunked' {
11:33 sergot tadzik: ~ is missing there
11:33 colomon timotimo++
11:33 sergot tadzik: watch out, it hangs now.
11:34 FROGGS tadzik: can you put the data you already received in that gist too?
11:36 tadzik FROGGS: I think so
11:37 sergot say $response.header.field('Tra​nsfer-Encoding').values[0]; returns "chunked"
11:37 tadzik FROGGS: https://gist.github.com/ta​dzik/ce0bcc1d4bc6c7036b46 I think that's what you're after
11:37 tadzik $header is what's passed to .parse in that code
11:38 FROGGS sergot: how can that be true? do you also receive the snippet like tadzik that does not include the transfer-encoding header?
11:39 sergot tadzik: your gist is about the first test
11:39 sergot not the second oone
11:40 tadzik uh oh
11:40 FROGGS ahh
11:40 tadzik I must've set a breakpoint too soon
11:41 tadzik wow, debugging stuff is slooow
11:41 FROGGS m: say ['chunked'] eq 'chunked'; say ~['chunked'] eq 'chunked' # sergot: I don't think we need to stringify the lhs
11:41 camelia rakudo-moar 5dd10b: OUTPUT«True␤True␤»
11:41 tadzik ah, got it
11:41 FROGGS tadzik: don't get nostalgic :o)
11:42 tadzik :P
11:42 tadzik ok, now it knows it's chunked
11:42 FROGGS :(
11:42 dalek nqp-js: b896123 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (2 files):
11:42 dalek nqp-js: Implement nqp::x and nqp::isnull
11:42 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias​/nqp-js/commit/b896123c22
11:42 dalek nqp-js: b84189f | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
11:42 dalek nqp-js: Implement nqp::atpos, nqp::push, nqp::pop, nqp::shift.
11:42 dalek nqp-js:
11:42 dalek nqp-js: Add add_sideffect_op helper so that we can define ops with sideffects easily.
11:42 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias​/nqp-js/commit/b84189fc50
11:42 timotimo yay, jnthn talk coming up in ~10 minutes
11:42 FROGGS T-8
11:42 tadzik hmm
11:43 timotimo vitosha is the right stream, yes?
11:43 timotimo seems like
11:43 TimToady yes
11:43 FROGGS ohh, that was a short nap
11:44 TimToady yes
11:44 * TimToady blames jnthn
11:44 sergot FROGGS++: yeah. we dont have to stringify this, thanks
11:44 TimToady he should've considered that when he decided to become a good speaker
11:44 FROGGS what I am wondering about... if this is going to be a 50 minutes talk, will he be able to improve it so that it will take 30 minutes next time?
11:45 TimToady we'll have added enough content by then to pad it out again
11:45 timotimo good point: repeat questions into the microphone
11:45 FROGGS ahh, moar features, yeah :o)
11:45 timotimo but jnthn has heard that hint a billion times before i bet
11:51 \00 joined #perl6
11:52 TimToady hey, where's my jnthn talk?  I'm just getting the blue-ish screens
11:52 FROGGS me too
11:52 Ven go :-)
11:52 itz there is the first slide visible but not yet started
11:53 colomon I'm getting pre-talk info on jnhtn and the talk?
11:53 TimToady hopefully it's pre-talk...
11:53 TimToady and not someone just forgetting to turn it on
11:53 Ven considering the background noise, it has to :)
11:53 * lizmat is seeing the same thing
11:54 masak talk ain't started yet.
11:55 TimToady we need some performance enhancement here...
11:55 FROGGS yeah, let him perform!
11:56 TimToady yes, okay
11:56 FROGGS I could 'ear something
11:56 colomon I hear him?
11:56 timotimo how long ago was the "A Rakudo Performance" talk?
11:56 TimToady that's jnthn
11:56 FROGGS ahh, better
11:56 itz starting
11:56 sergot yay!
11:56 FROGGS go jnthn++
11:56 Ven yay :)
11:57 tadzik TimToady: it's starting now
11:57 sergot polish perl workshop jnthn++
11:57 sergot :)
11:57 woolfy Hey!!!  jnthn++
11:57 TimToady yes, I know
11:57 tadzik err
11:57 tadzik tabfail
11:57 tadzik I meant timotimo
11:57 Ven Aaaand I can't watch it because it's incredibly stuttering
11:57 TimToady You feel old!?!
11:57 FROGGS TimToady: he's even younger than me >.<
11:58 timotimo oh?
11:58 timotimo i'm already watching :)
11:58 tadzik timotimo | how long ago was the "A Rakudo Performance" talk?
11:59 tadzik this confused me
11:59 colomon go jnthn++!
11:59 psch hi #perl6 o/
11:59 sergot is this a t-shirt from 2014 or 2013?
11:59 sergot hi psch!
11:59 psch jnthn++ talk
11:59 timotimo there was a talk called that
12:00 psch hey sergot \o
12:00 tadzik sergot: 2013 I think, it looked embroidered
12:00 psch hm, the "who talks about what"-bar at the bottom doesn't go away for me?
12:01 Ven same here.
12:01 colomon surprise coming!  \]o/
12:01 FROGGS \o/
12:01 colomon …. errr, third arm on me?
12:02 psch colomon: maybe it's an ear? :)
12:02 FROGGS or a huge mobile...
12:02 timotimo noooo why buffering! :(
12:03 colomon psch: my ears are pretty big, but they are also roughly symmetrical.  ;)
12:03 masak \]o[/
12:03 timotimo hah
12:03 psch colomon: clearly your head was turned sideways a bit :)
12:06 timotimo jnthns slides are really pretty to look at
12:07 cognome joined #perl6
12:07 masak I was thinking the same thing.
12:07 masak jnthn++
12:08 timotimo actually, let me rephrase that
12:08 thou joined #perl6
12:09 timotimo they are structured very clearly, but also very pretty to look at for purely aesthetic reasons
12:10 masak aye.
12:10 biff_ joined #perl6
12:12 biff_ hello, I'm a Perl 5.x programmer who wants to learn about Perl 6 but who is confused about where to start
12:12 tadzik hello biff_
12:12 sergot tadzik: yeah, this is the 2013 one
12:12 sergot :)
12:12 tadzik oh, he showed his back? :P
12:13 biff_ hello tadzik
12:13 sergot almost :)
12:13 tadzik biff_: we have a set of articles aimed at p5 programmers
12:13 tadzik biff_: it's a bit aged, but they're a very good resource nonetheless
12:13 tadzik biff_: http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6
12:14 biff_ Thanks tadzik!
12:14 tadzik you're welcome :)
12:14 psch biff_: http://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ is another great overview, without reference to perl5
12:15 tadzik hmm, we don't have that on http://perl6.org/documentation/
12:15 timotimo why does this damn stream keep buffering, then jumping a tiny bit ahead? :(
12:15 Ven timotimo: feel you :(
12:15 * lizmat doesn't see buffering...
12:15 TimToady mine is fine
12:15 biff_ I still know lots of companies using Perl 5.x but none moving to Perl 6
12:15 TimToady had some buffering for lichtkind's talk though
12:16 biff_ Does anyone have examples of companies using Perl 6?
12:16 tadzik someone should kick the projector
12:16 masak biff_: you might also be interested in https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob​/master/docs/other/porting_howto
12:16 moritz suffering from buffering, the good old favorite
12:16 Ven biff_: I use some perl6 in prod :)
12:17 sergot Ven++
12:17 Ven lots of little CLI snippets here and there that do one thing, deploying, installing, copying, whatever
12:17 biff_ thanks Ven and sergot
12:18 timotimo my almost earliest optimization i made is again used as an example \o/
12:18 biff_ Any IDE
12:18 lizmat TheDamian converted his "rename" script to Perl 6 and uses it daily
12:18 sergot biff_: you meant tadzik I gues :)
12:18 colomon timotimo++
12:18 sergot s
12:18 Ven lizmat: link :p ?
12:18 colomon lizmat: his rename script?
12:19 biff_ any ide's support Perl 6?
12:19 lizmat will look up after jnthn's talk, ok?
12:19 sergot biff_: I know about vim plugins
12:19 sergot biff_: https://github.com/vim-perl/vim-perl
12:19 biff_ sergot yes :)
12:19 sergot padre highlights p6 iirc
12:19 itz and vim
12:19 biff_ ahh vim
12:20 Ven padre does??
12:20 sergot Ven: I think so, checking
12:20 masak the slide that is up at the moment is awesome.
12:21 masak notice how highlighting is working both in the left and top frames.
12:21 colomon masak: bytecode deep dive?
12:21 * flussence arrives late and frantically looks for stream links in the backlog :)
12:21 colomon flussence: http://yapc.getclouder.com/vitosha.html
12:21 masak colomon: yes.
12:22 flussence found it anyway, but thanks colomon++
12:23 masak heat-seeking optimizer!
12:23 tadzik now write a module to warm code up so optimizer catches it :D
12:23 tadzik Class::Heater
12:24 * lizmat realizes there's at least a 20 second delay on the video stream
12:24 masak tadzik: for ^1000_000 { module() }
12:24 biff_ I just saw that P6 is supposed to run in the JVM as well as Parrot, any opinions about which is better or does it seem to matter?
12:24 masak lizmat: no, I'm just slow ;)
12:24 tadzik biff_: MoarVM is the best :)
12:24 Ven biff_: moarvm ;)
12:25 masak biff_: moarvm!
12:25 lizmat biff_: YMV, JVM is not really usable for CLI script
12:25 Ven .o( take care of your variations ) # YMV
12:25 biff_ sweet thanks all
12:26 flussence biff_: they all have their useful points; JVM has the most stable threading (because it's... java), but it also takes forever to start up
12:26 psch luckily it comes with an eval-server, if you need it all the time anway
12:26 psch *anyway
12:26 masak biff_: let us know if you run into any kind of trouble! we're happy to assist.
12:26 biff_ oh I will I will :)
12:27 flussence (does r-p do threads yet?)
12:28 Ven erm, the very basic thread, it should.
12:28 Ven I think I read something from the advent of 2y ago
12:28 lizmat r-p is not doing S17
12:28 masak why not?
12:29 lizmat bcause it's threads are incompatible
12:29 lizmat *its
12:29 masak curious.
12:30 lizmat no, not really
12:30 Ven hey people in the room
12:30 Ven not that many people there :-)
12:31 timotimo BRRT!
12:31 timotimo \o/
12:31 Ven \o/
12:32 timotimo oh god
12:32 colomon ooo ooo ooo!
12:32 timotimo will this be the reveal
12:32 timotimo OH YES
12:32 colomon sounds like
12:32 tadzik *drum roll*
12:32 FROGGS now!
12:32 colomon YES!!!!!
12:32 timotimo HOLY YES
12:32 Ven YES
12:32 TimToady wowee
12:32 timotimo i wanted to do something like this, too
12:32 nwc10 oh, that was good luck, I just rstarted the stream
12:32 timotimo but it wouldn't have ended up as good at all :D
12:32 moritz what did jnthn++ reveal?
12:33 colomon moritz: profiler
12:33 Ven the truth]
12:33 nwc10 no, "Statistics"
12:33 colomon moritz: that knows about everything down to JIT
12:33 nwc10 the one after lies and damn lies
12:33 moritz \o/
12:34 timotimo I LOVE THIS.
12:34 Ven .o( I hope it uses rakudo-js )
12:34 tadzik :D
12:34 tadzik I wonder if we can build a nytprof-like view in this
12:34 tadzik where it shows you the code in green and red
12:34 moritz OMG please yes
12:34 moritz and a flamegraph
12:34 tadzik and a vim plugin that does that :D
12:35 nwc10 and a pony?
12:35 tadzik yes please
12:36 timotimo this does everything i wished for and more
12:36 * colomon had hoped this would be the surprise, but this is even better than I had imagined
12:36 tadzik literally a pony
12:37 Ven "figuratively literally"
12:37 Ven \o/
12:37 tadzik I'm warming up the CPU for the git pull
12:37 colomon "I will push this right after the session."  !!!!!
12:37 colomon tadzik++
12:38 timotimo why is the talk almost over already? ;(
12:38 tadzik happy time passes fast
12:38 colomon timotimo: so I can get on with my day?  :)
12:38 masak I've never seen #perl6 this happy about a talk ever :D
12:38 tadzik since the debugger? :P
12:38 TimToady it's all the smileys
12:38 flussence the talk got profiled and optimized down to 40% as long
12:38 masak tadzik: no, ever.
12:39 lizmat :-)
12:39 Ven 355x o/
12:39 colomon !!!!!
12:43 moritz masak: the first R* release comes to mind
12:45 Ven any ETA for the recording? I see the camera now :-0
12:45 timotimo perl6-becnh, is that something jnthn built in secret, too? :)
12:45 lizmat :-)
12:46 sergot jnthn++ that was really awesome
12:47 lizmat jnthn++ indeed...
12:47 FROGGS jnthn++ # --profile++ is awesome
12:47 cognome jnthn++ # great presentation
12:47 yoleaux 09:30Z <Ven> cognome: any updates for the FPW2014 talk videos :P?
12:47 lizmat no I need to rewrite my talk  :-)
12:47 cognome sofia people, thx for the feed.
12:47 timotimo kinda sad only so few people were actually attending that session
12:47 RandalSchwartz left #perl6
12:48 lizmat timotimo: I don't think there are as many people at YACP::EU in total
12:49 timotimo oh
12:49 lizmat and there's at least one less at jnthn++ 's talk than planned  :p(
12:49 timotimo OK
12:49 lizmat :-(
12:49 timotimo yes :(
12:49 TimToady two
12:49 TimToady and my cat died the day after my 2nd retinal surgery... :(
12:49 * lizmat hugs TimToady
12:50 * TimToady hugs lizmat
12:50 * Ven hugs hugs
12:50 lizmat good seeing jnthn wearing his hat  :-)
12:50 TimToady hugme: hug all the hugs!
12:50 * hugme hugs all the hugs!
12:50 * Ven timtoadies hugme
12:51 donaldh joined #perl6
12:51 masak hugme: hug hugging!
12:51 * hugme hugs hugging!
12:51 * TimToady wanders off to hug his pillow smoar
12:51 masak 'night, TimToady
12:51 moritz hugme: hug going meta
12:51 * hugme hugs going
12:52 flussence and a *++ to whoever's operating the streams this time; I appreciate having an easy-to-find rtmp url inside a plain <video> tag
12:54 * timotimo is also happy the sound quality was pretty much perfect
12:54 xenoterracide joined #perl6
12:54 sergot tadzik: have you tried to do some more debugging?
12:54 guru joined #perl6
12:56 flussence .oO( methinks someone's font is missing a U+2615 HOT BEVERAGE glyph... )
12:57 * timotimo awaits the push notification eagerly
12:58 donaldh darn, Sofia is two hours ahead of me. Missed jnthn++'s talk
12:58 cognome Ven: you should ask elbeho
12:59 FROGGS timotimo: you have something new to play with? :D
12:59 timotimo FROGGS: yes! :)
13:00 cognome Ven: here, http://www.dailymotion.com/user/journeesperl/1
13:00 FROGGS I have v5 one liners that takes 1.1s where the P6 equivalent takes .3s or so... I'm eager to --profile that
13:00 timotimo oooh, Ven did a talk
13:01 ajr joined #perl6
13:01 timotimo oh no, it's completely in french
13:02 flussence a few years ago in here I said one day I was going to port frozen-bubble to perl6... and I'm running out of excuses to put it off /o\
13:02 timotimo :D
13:02 cognome timotimo: According to him, he did it almost at gunpoint.
13:02 FROGGS flussence: I have some frozen-bubble knowledge fwiw :o)
13:02 timotimo oh my
13:04 flussence (that game was one of the first times I'd seen perl5 code... and it scared me away from it for a good few years :)
13:05 moritz wow, I even understand those talk titles
13:05 sergot masak's screen
13:05 sergot oh, it's gone now
13:07 FROGGS flussence: yeah, I helped rewriting it... use that as a base: https://github.com/kthakore/frozen-bubble
13:13 ggoebel11111116 joined #perl6
13:14 * timotimo can't wait to look at the implementation of the profiler
13:16 timotimo oooh, masak has a lightning talk in this upcoming session
13:17 tadzik sergot: no, I got overexcited with other things :)
13:19 sergot hope I will be able to see masak's lighting talk, I have a train in an hour.
13:19 sergot tadzik: I think I know what made you overexcited. :)
13:23 Ulti 7/win 2
13:23 Ulti erk
13:23 Ulti :'(
13:24 Ven joined #perl6
13:24 Ven cognome: thanks!
13:24 Ven timotimo: yep, sorry :P
13:25 [Coke] jnthn++, and I've only seen people jnthn++, not the original jnthn++ thing . :)
13:27 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 22 commits to nqp by jnthn
13:27 Ven jnthn++
13:27 sergot jnthn++
13:27 flussence jnthn++
13:29 flussence ooh, that moosex thing was neat
13:29 sergot sjn++
13:31 * woolfy hugz TimToady because of cat AND retina AND not being in Sofia
13:33 colomon oooooo
13:33 woolfy cognome: it was me plus 1 other person (you?  maddingue?) who convinced Ven to do a talk...  It was fun.
13:34 Ven woolfy: elbeho, iirc.
13:34 masak Ven++ # giving a talk
13:34 Ven well, now I can get laughed at on video, yay :P
13:34 Ven it was a fun day !
13:34 woolfy Ven: no no, not laughed at, applauded at and hugged and ++
13:35 Ven I only talked with Maddingue at the post-conf (he was talking about how js is terrible =P)
13:36 jnap joined #perl6
13:38 jnthn Note that perl6-bench was started by japhb++, and wasn't one of my secret projects. :)
13:38 timotimo .tell japhb it'll now be very interesting to be able to run benchmarks with nqp-m --profile (and perl6 --profile later when it works) with a given (or default (big)) work load
13:38 yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to japhb.
13:39 masak japhb++ # perl6-bench
13:39 masak jnthn++ # profiler
13:43 jnap joined #perl6
13:47 sergot masak! :)
13:47 flussence :D
13:49 Maddingue me? badmouthing JS? I can't believe that :3
13:49 lizmat moarving the pictures?
13:50 kaare_ joined #perl6
13:51 timotimo why does the stream hang _<
13:52 timotimo i missed it!
13:52 timotimo damn ti!
13:52 timotimo timo is now sadface
13:52 FROGGS me too :o(
13:52 woolfy masak++
13:52 colomon masak++
13:53 woolfy I liked the caml _> coccoon morph!
13:53 jnthn cute :)
13:53 jnthn masak++
13:53 donaldh masak++ # that was really nice :-)
13:53 lizmat and another part of my talk that I can throw away  :-)
13:53 woolfy coccoon?  Well, I've seen an important somebody spell it that way...
13:53 masak I think I spelled it right...
13:54 masak oh, woolfy didn't above, I see :)
13:55 woolfy masak: lizmat and I have a nice piece of paper where TimToady wrote "coccoon"!!!
13:55 Ven link? What's happening
13:55 masak woolfy: yes, I remember now :)
13:55 masak lizmat: talked about it on PLPW.
13:55 molaf joined #perl6
13:57 thou joined #perl6
14:02 timotimo btw: rc-forest-fire *still* doesn't burn trees properly
14:04 masak timotimo: probably for environmental reasons. :P
14:05 timotimo of course
14:05 gtodd errm reviewing notes to self don't trust my terminology so dumb question ...   if I do   perl6 -e 'say $*ARGFILES.lines.elems' file.txt    ... I'm calling lines as a 'method' on the input file(s) ??  but if I do:  perl6 -e 'say lines().elems' file.txt  it's a function
14:05 timotimo aye, lines exists both as a method on IO objects as well as a global subroutine
14:05 gtodd actually not concerned about the ontological status :-)  just want to know what words to use
14:06 timotimo ah, ok
14:06 gtodd yay!
14:06 masak gtodd: correct.
14:06 masak gtodd: ontological status is also correct :)
14:06 gtodd heh
14:07 gtodd timotimo: masak: thanks .... I wrote that note almost a year ago so it stuck :-)
14:07 timotimo :)
14:07 thou joined #perl6
14:07 masak gtodd: at some point in the distant past, the idea was that if you "exported" a method, it would be available as a global sub. that idea didn't work so well, so subs and methods are ontologically distinct. (although they get more identicat again the deeper you dig.)
14:08 lizmat otoh, "is export" on methods still work
14:08 lizmat which I found out the other day  :-)
14:08 gtodd perl6 ideas, syntax, etc. seems more "sticky" (there must be a language design concept that describes this) even if you don't use it too often ...
14:09 masak that's news to me. :)
14:11 lizmat $ ack 'is export' | grep method | wc -l
14:11 lizmat 113
14:11 gtodd maybe it's just that when learning perl5 you get a internal psychic reward every time you master an idiom ... whereas perl6 has less of a jolt but is longer lasting
14:12 donaldh what do double square brackets do? e.g. [[ &with ]]
14:17 gtodd masak: presumably separating them that way doesn't make perl6 messier/harder to maintain ... :-)
14:18 tadzik > perl6 --profile SpaceInvaders
14:18 tadzik No profiling support
14:18 tadzik :(
14:18 tadzik I recompiled rakudo and all the things, even redownloaded
14:18 tadzik does it need a commandline switch to compile it with profiling support?
14:18 carlin HEAD nqp and HEAD moar?
14:18 tadzik oh, HEAD moar
14:19 timotimo tadzik: also, you need to be in the nqp folder for it to find the html template it'll use to create the profile
14:19 timotimo (or put the template in the same relative directory)
14:19 tadzik hhuh
14:20 tadzik oh well, I'll listen to the keynote for now
14:20 lizmat .oO( Viva La Revolution! )
14:24 dalek nqp: c830eaf | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
14:24 dalek nqp: Install profiler template; use it.
14:24 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c830eafd20
14:28 dalek rakudo/nom: b61700d | jonathan++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
14:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump NQP_REVISION to get MoarVM profiler support.
14:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b61700d33f
14:28 dalek rakudo/nom: ce71b85 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
14:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Some frame names for better profiler output.
14:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ce71b85d8f
14:29 jnthn That should make it rather easier. :)
14:31 * donaldh was thinking about adding profiling to the JVM backend. Will look at this and see if I can port it.
14:32 timotimo without a bytecode specializing phase ... no, you won't be able to :(
14:32 donaldh ?
14:33 timotimo well, the trick for the profiler on moarvm is that it just uses our existing "spesh" framework
14:33 timotimo the first time it encounters a frame, it adds instrumentation bytecodes throughout that frame
14:33 donaldh ah. in-frame profiling?
14:34 Mouq joined #perl6
14:34 timotimo something like that
14:34 timotimo i don't know if that refers to something that ... is a thing
14:35 donaldh Well you can do method profiling but that gives no visibility of loops or expensive instructions within a method.
14:35 jnthn donaldh: Really, the profiler is providing a lot of insight into what Moar's dynamic optimizer is doing.
14:35 timotimo ah
14:36 Mouq japhb: re: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2014-08-22#i_9225656 because "method postcircumfix:<[ ]>" and "…:<{ }>" no longer mean anthing special, so it's inconsistent to have "method postcircumfix:<( )>" be special
14:36 * donaldh used to use quantify for C/C++ code that gave statement level profiling.
14:36 donaldh jnthn: as opposed to profiling perl 6 code? or both?
14:37 [Coke] anyone has a URL for jnthn's talk, please let me know.
14:37 jnthn donaldh: It does that too
14:38 timotimo jnthn: it just doesn't show up in the profile output yet?
14:38 jnthn timotimo: huh?
14:38 timotimo statement-level profiling?
14:38 jnthn Oh
14:38 jnthn No, we don't do that.
14:38 timotimo all i see is callees summed up
14:38 jnthn That's not immediately interesting for now.
14:39 jnthn Though you could insert statement recording things too
14:39 jnthn Probably wants to be an option.
14:39 timotimo right; but it'd be easy to put into the profiler itself, right? just add a little profiler slot for each line annotation that shows up in the frame and put "i'm spending time on this line now" bytecodes where the line number annotations are
14:40 jnthn Yeah, it's do-able without too much effort. But I think we want a --profiler-option=... or so to turn such things on.
14:40 timotimo aye
14:40 jnthn Since it'd be more coslty.
14:40 jnthn But yeah, not hard to add overall
14:41 timotimo wow, there's only 4 ops the jit has to know about for profiling to work properly?
14:41 gtodd donaldh: re: [[ &with ]]  it is  hard to find a canonical syntax reference for perl6 ...  hopefully there will be an even a better than perldoc documentation system for perl6 preinstalled and easy to use (maybe it will be a "killer app"and people will install perl6 just to use it!) ...  BTW if your question gets answered in here it will be logged on the interweb :)
14:41 jnthn sure
14:42 jnthn less is more :)
14:42 timotimo there used to be this WITCH thing
14:42 timotimo it could mention "[[&" as "a thing"
14:43 hoelzro morning #perl6
14:44 hoelzro where do regression tests go for Rakudo? I would like to write one for https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=122593
14:44 timotimo ... didn't we put a rc-forest-fire implementation in that uses a "warming" state?
14:44 timotimo it seems like we don't have the correct rc-forest-fire for perl6 in perl6-bench
14:45 timotimo .tell TimToady do you know something about the status of perl6/rc-forest-fire in perl6-bench? i thought it was supposed to have a "warming" state
14:45 yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
14:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 60cd9da | (Rob Hoelz)++ | src/core/Numeric.pm:
14:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Check for definedness before invoking isNaN
14:46 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Otherwise, things like Num === Num fail
14:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/60cd9dafdb
14:46 timotimo interesting, the nqp version of rc-forest-fire goes through all the neighbours to check for a burning tree, but doesn't short-circuit
14:46 Mouq hoelzro: Maybe after NaN === NaN in S02-types/nan.t ?
14:46 Mouq hoelzro: Since it's related to that
14:47 Mouq hoelzro: Though S02-types/num.t looks like a better fit
14:47 hoelzro Mouq: yeah, I think num.t would be better
14:48 dalek roast: f59d8d8 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S02-types/num.t:
14:48 dalek roast: Add regression test for RT 122593
14:48 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f59d8d8982
14:50 masak lizmat: how can I run an 'is export'ed method as a sub?
14:51 masak m: class C { method foo is export { say "OH HAI" } }; foo
14:51 camelia rakudo-moar 5dd10b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/ddZCwd3Byjâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    foo used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
14:51 gtodd donaldh:   something like   ack '\[\[' docs/*   might give a hint
14:51 jnthn masak: You didn't import
14:52 jnthn m: class C { method foo is export { say "OH HAI" } }; import C; foo(C)
14:52 camelia rakudo-moar 5dd10b: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
14:52 masak I suspected it was something like that.
14:52 masak wow, you can import a class like that? cool.
14:52 masak lizmat++ jnthn++
14:52 masak TIL.
14:52 jnthn Module too
14:53 masak *nod*
14:54 * [Coke] can't build nom-moar .
14:55 [Coke] Stage parse      : Cannot invoke this object (REPR: P6opaque, cs = 0)
14:55 * [Coke] tries a super dooper clean.
14:55 masak bus &
14:55 colomon PROFILE!
14:56 jnthn bus &
14:56 [Coke] does that make a bus number of 2?
14:59 colomon 5% of ABC's time is going to prefix:<+> ?!?!
15:00 moritz probably Str->Num conversion?
15:00 * colomon is going to need to try again with jit
15:00 colomon moritz: I hope so.
15:00 colomon but even so, that's pretty extreme
15:00 colomon afk # off to store
15:00 donaldh no, that's two bus numbers of 1.
15:01 timotimo parse-json spends 7.77% of its time in CAPHASH (all jitted), 7.28% in MATCH (also all jitted) and 6.73% in parse-json's "str" (all spesh'd), which is there to match ""-delimited strings
15:01 guru joined #perl6
15:03 timotimo jnthn: the number of deoptimizations on the "front page" doesn't seem to correspond with the number of local deoptimizations in the deopt panel; is that because it's "times run into deopt" vs "frames that ended up being deopt'd"?
15:05 Ulti benchmark of one of my bioinfo tests :3 http://mattoates.co.uk/files/​profile-1408719865.79293.html jnthn++ !
15:08 timotimo listiter's reify takes up a quarter of your run time exclusively ... :S
15:09 timotimo the GC is very happy about your program, though
15:09 dalek roast: 2cc1341 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | S02-types/num.t:
15:09 dalek roast: Bump test count in num.t
15:09 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2cc134138a
15:09 Ulti yeah I endlessly split apart strings and put them back together again
15:09 Ulti well put new ones back together again
15:10 gtodd donaldh: I'm just letting you know some of my strategies for dealing with documentation while being a mere user of perl6 :-)  ...   anyway  [[ &with ]]  has something to do with infix functions of which I know nothing :-P
15:10 Ulti guess I should implement it with substr or something instead
15:10 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 96 commits to rakudo/S26-WHY by hoelzro
15:13 donaldh gtodd: yeah, I know [+] is a reduce operator. I think [&with] is a reduce operator that uses a supplied function, but don't get the [[&with]] syntax.
15:15 gtodd .oO( maybe it's an array of infixes! errm ... )
15:15 gtodd ;)
15:16 Mouq joined #perl6
15:16 psch m: sub sum($a, $b) { $a + $b }; say 3 [&sum] 4; #`[[ infixify ]]; say [[&sum]] 6, 7 # and meta op
15:16 camelia rakudo-moar 5dd10b: OUTPUT«7␤13␤»
15:16 psch array of infixes doesn't sound so wrong in my understanding
15:16 gtodd :-D
15:17 psch m: sub sum($a, $b) { $a + $b }; say [&sum] 6, 7 # and meta op
15:17 camelia rakudo-moar 5dd10b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/I41buWCkNfâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/I41buWCkNf:1â�¤------> [32msub sum($a, $b) { $a + $b }; say [&sum] [33mâ��[31m6, 7 # and meta op[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        â€¦Â»
15:17 psch so [[&func]] is [&func] as a list meta op, and [&func] is &func as infix
15:17 * Mouq enjoys that if one translates http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set#Perl to Perl 6, it's many times faster, especially as the accuracy ("1 .. 20") is increased
15:17 psch that's what i was trying to show with these examples; i'm not sure it's 100% correct, but it seems pretty close
15:18 Mouq psch: That's right :)
15:18 donaldh I guess I'd have guessed<&func> as an infixy.
15:19 * gtodd copy/pastes psch's explanation into ~/Perl6-notes-to-self.txt
15:20 gtodd donaldh: yes but I think that <&foo> was ambiguous syntax in someway
15:20 donaldh So it ended up reusing [ ]
15:21 psch <&foo> is qw[ &foo ]
15:21 donaldh It's seems to be a special case which is a shame, but now I get it.
15:22 donaldh here's the context for the question: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/304/files
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15:25 Ven joined #perl6
15:26 gtodd Perl6 syntax [[&functiion]]  In perl6  custom functions can operates as an infix so ... [&func] as a list meta op, and [&func] is &func as infix.
15:26 gtodd EXAMPLE:  sub sum($a, $b) { $a + $b }; say 3 [&sum] 4 ; say [[&sum]] 6, 7 # and meta op
15:26 gtodd oops ..
15:27 gtodd oh well now it is documented on the interweb :)
15:29 Ven were there other talks to look for ?
15:29 Ven or in the incoming days?
15:29 timotimo oh, interesting
15:30 timotimo reify takes a :$sink; named arguments make spesh bail out iirc ... so we get the benefit of passing ":$sink" on to other reify's, but we won't be speshing that frame
15:31 timotimo actually, i do see spesh'd frames in there
15:31 timotimo oh, of course, if :$sink is *not* passed, it'll be interned and spesh'd
15:32 [Sno] joined #perl6
15:33 donaldh what's the runtime overhead of the moar profiler?
15:33 Ulti yeah so going through all the bits of my call graph ListIter.reify is the super painful bit in all of my tests
15:34 Ulti donaldh: I'm just checking that :)
15:35 Ulti donaldh 13 seconds ontop of 32 seconds it takes for my test to run without profiling
15:36 Ulti ~40% of runtime
15:37 timotimo Ulti: that also includes the time it takes to dump the json data into the template, though
15:37 Ulti yeah
15:37 timotimo can you run something that takes more like a minute, perhaps?
15:37 donaldh that's quite good. JVM profilers often cause a bigger slowdown.
15:39 [Coke] verified, nom is broken on osx on moar.
15:39 Ulti ... I built it on OSX like 5 minutes ago
15:39 donaldh [Coke]: what's broken. I might have some time to take a look.
15:39 [Coke] is there a missing version bump post release?
15:40 Ulti I have the profiler output to prove it
15:40 Ulti I get the same old make error I always get though
15:40 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/coke/6e2bf325f6af232394bb #donaldh
15:40 [Coke] ^^ new make error, followed by the old one.
15:41 Ulti [Coke] what OSX/XCode version are you on?
15:41 [Coke] that was with a rm -rf install, and perl Configure.pl --gen-nqp --gen-moar --backends=moar
15:41 [Coke] os x 10.9.4
15:41 Ulti ah I was using rakudobrew so might have been a lot of cached stuff
15:41 [Coke] xcode 5.1.1
15:42 Ulti same as me
15:42 [Coke] crap. one local change... one moment...
15:42 Ulti but yeah I haven't done a completely clean build
15:42 btyler building master/master/nom r-m on 10.9.4, results in a bit
15:42 Ven while I think about it... jnthn++'s done some web, now :P
15:43 [Coke] crappity. "that couldn't possible be..." "oh, yes, it is"
15:43 [Coke] my bad.
15:43 Ulti fancy web too jnthn++
15:43 Ulti where bootstrap is always fancy enough
15:43 timotimo %)
15:44 [Coke] m: multi infix:<===>(NaN:D, NaN:D) { True } ; say Num === Num
15:44 camelia rakudo-moar 5dd10b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot invoke this object (REPR: P6opaque, cs = 0)␤»
15:44 donaldh yeah, jnthn++ didn't just write a profiler. He polished its UI too.
15:44 [Coke] masak, rakudobug?
15:44 Ulti im tempted to have a play and see if I can do something for the call graph in d3
15:45 gtodd re: <&foo> is qw[ &foo ]  so we use [[&foo]]  ... I wonder if it is it a workaround or spec'ed in stone ... :) anyway thanks for the examples and explanation
15:45 gtodd psch: ^^
15:45 donaldh Ulti: that's what I was thinking too. I've wanted to write a d3 call profile graph for a while but just not made the time.
15:46 gtodd Ulti: !! nice :)
15:46 Ven [Coke]: didn't that just got fixed?
15:47 Ulti hmm maybe some form of sequence plot would be good
15:47 donaldh wow, moar is getting fast. I've not done  moar nqp / rakudo build for a while.
15:48 timotimo that's been kind of a focus recently :)
15:48 donaldh :D
15:48 psch gtodd: the [] for qw can be anything brackety except parens
15:49 timotimo better build times and spectest times would increase developer satisfaction and turn-around times, was the thought (speculation on my part)
15:49 psch gtodd: it's just that < > is q:words{ }
15:49 Ulti donaldh: something like this might work if it folded out and zoomed http://greencracker.net/?p=1685
15:49 donaldh Well that's why I'm desperate to improve JVM backend in that regard.
15:50 psch i'm fairly sure that < > doing word quoting is not really up for debate, but i'm not that involved in writing the spec, only a bit in implementing it
15:52 psch gtodd: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.htm​l#Angle_quotes_%28quote_words%29
15:53 psch special casing <&func> as infix and keeping < > as qw// seems really headache-y, in any case, so the latter would likely have to go
15:54 gtodd right
15:55 biff_512 left #perl6
15:56 timotimo donaldh: and your contributions are definitely appreciated! by me at least :)
15:57 donaldh with a bit of guidance from jnthn I might have another go at removing priorInvocation. It's fairly futile looking for performance improvements while that's still there.
15:57 timotimo donaldh: if you're looking for something else that'd be less of a "hide and seek", you can look into what i haven't yet implemented for the BootInterop
15:58 timotimo i'm pretty sure having some amazing code example that starts with "use Blah::Blubb:from<Java>" would be something that'll raise a few eyebrows
15:58 donaldh yes, indeed.
15:58 timotimo currently we don't have sugary invocation for overloaded methods where we'd have to inspect types
15:59 donaldh Do we need some type inspection nqp primitives?
15:59 psch we also have broken outers on precompiled modules that use a module below their own namespace
15:59 psch i've looked at it but i don't understand why...
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16:00 psch that seems like a bit of R* show stopper; URI e.g. breaks in that way
16:01 psch https://gist.github.com/pe​schwa/e5aee72dcce9d4b60ec1 the symptoms
16:01 psch i'll better check if that's still happening though... :)
16:02 timotimo donaldh: we do have istype/isint/islist/isstr/isnum/ishash
16:03 gtodd donaldh: I know nothing about Java development tools and techniques but I guess in the enterprise java world there are lots of cool ways for speeding up builds etc. .?
16:04 donaldh what about JVM type inspection?
16:04 gtodd ..  it would be really cool if hardcore Java developers started  looking to perl6 as a go to quick scripting language :-)
16:04 donaldh gtodd: It's too slow for that just now.
16:05 donaldh gtodd: That is where I'd like to get to.
16:05 gtodd donaldh: yeah
16:06 gtodd it depends on your esthetics but I think it's nicer to look at than scala :)
16:06 timotimo i know of at least one person who says java people would look to jython to write test code ...
16:06 timotimo but that was said like 3 or 4 years ago
16:06 Ulti yeah if the whole of the Java API was easily available from Perl 6 that would make it attractive to Java types desperate to write equally verbose code in Perl :/
16:06 donaldh $dayjob is quite a conservative java house. i.e. no scala or clojure or anything.
16:07 donaldh I can envisage using Perl 6 to compose new things out of existing Java libraries.
16:07 gtodd donaldh: scala sure starts up fast compared to perl6-j but it doesn't seem to build must faster
16:07 gtodd donaldh: cool
16:08 donaldh And using Perl 6 for things that Java sucks at like writing parsers.
16:08 gtodd donaldh: Grammars, tests, ... ?
16:08 donaldh yeah
16:09 gtodd hmm could one use NativeCall ?
16:10 gtodd I guess if you're inside the JVM the Java API is what people want to be able to access ...
16:11 gtodd I guess scala clojure do that nicely
16:11 donaldh That's what timotimo's BootInterop does.
16:11 donaldh It's just that we don't have nice method signature sugar. You need to use JVM name mangling to form the function signatures.
16:13 timotimo it's not "timotimo's bootinterop" :)
16:13 donaldh oh, apologies.
16:14 timotimo sorear started it, jnthn continued working on it and i added a bit more stuff
16:14 gtodd nicely volunteered ?
16:15 Ven clojure's JNI lib is still a bit better, btw :P
16:16 donaldh I think we're using JNA for C native calling.
16:17 colomon Huh.  Just looked at the allocations for ABC.
16:17 donaldh lots?
16:17 timotimo loads and loads of BootArray?
16:17 colomon ABC::Grammar is being allocated 97,544 times reading a 7335 byte file.  That seems very, very wrong.
16:18 colomon parsing, not reading.
16:18 timotimo one instance gets allocated for every cursor we build
16:18 timotimo if the number appears too high, it may be due to too much backtracking perhaps?
16:18 colomon that still seems very high, doesn't it?
16:18 colomon could be, I doubt the grammar is optimized
16:18 timotimo possibly
16:18 timotimo well, we do have a grammar optimizer :P
16:19 timotimo but it doesn't do terribly much yet
16:21 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
16:22 psch alright, apparently that was one of those rare cases of "ignore it and it goes away"
16:22 psch (whoever fixed the precompiled-modules-on-jvm breakage)++
16:23 hoelzro joined #perl6
16:28 donaldh decommute&
16:31 PotatoGim_Home joined #perl6
16:36 [Coke] ven: that one bug was fixed, but this regressed:
16:36 [Coke] r: say Num===Num
16:36 camelia rakudo-jvm 60cd9d: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
16:36 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 60cd9d: OUTPUT«True␤»
16:36 [Coke] ... dafuq?
16:37 moritz anythin' wrong with it?
16:37 [Coke] ah, missed that hoelzro++ already fixed the bug he reported.
16:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 5bd2d48 | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
16:38 dalek rakudo/nom: minor relguide updates
16:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5bd2d48eee
16:41 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 9c78db0 | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
16:41 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
16:41 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/9c78db08e2
16:41 dalek perl6-roast-data: a072123 | coke++ | / (6 files):
16:41 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:41 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/a072123173
16:41 Akagi201 joined #perl6
16:41 [Coke] moar, parrot, moar-jit have clean spectest runs. jvm failing 1 test.
16:43 [Coke] fudged a lot of stuff yesterday; LHF - pick a file with a rakudo fudge that doesn't mention a ticket, and open a ticket pointing back at the test explaning what the symptom is.
16:43 [Coke] (then update the fudge marker to refer to RT #whatever)
16:43 Rotwang joined #perl6
16:50 [Coke] r: perl6: sub foo { my $s; for 1..3 { $s += $_ } } ; say foo()
16:50 [Coke] perl6: sub foo { my $s; for 1..3 { $s += $_ } } ; say foo()
16:50 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 60cd9d: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
16:50 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 60cd9d: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
16:50 camelia ..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1389 (warn @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 301 (Any.Numeric @ 8) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/tmpfile line…»
16:52 [Coke] m: say
16:53 camelia rakudo-moar 60cd9d: OUTPUT«␤»
16:53 [Coke] m: ord
16:53 camelia rakudo-moar 60cd9d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/kOMsz9M_DXâ�¤Calling 'ord' requires arguments (if you meant to operate on $_, please use .ord or use an explicit invocant or argument)â�¤    Expected: :(Cool $s)â�¤at /tmp/kOMsz9M_DX:1â�¤------> [3…»
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16:56 * TimToady enteres a Warming state
16:56 yoleaux 14:45Z <timotimo> TimToady: do you know something about the status of perl6/rc-forest-fire in perl6-bench? i thought it was supposed to have a "warming" state
16:56 kaleem joined #perl6
16:56 * [Coke] tries to figure out how ord does that.
16:57 TimToady timotimo: perl6-bench still has the old one because it exercises the optimizer so hard :)
16:57 TimToady or doesn't yet, as the case may be
17:00 [Coke] m: say ( { 1 + 1 }, { 2 + 2 } ).>>.()
17:00 camelia rakudo-moar 60cd9d: OUTPUT«2 4␤»
17:03 Ven joined #perl6
17:04 Ven [Coke]: I was indeed talking about hoelzro++'s fix ;)
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17:27 hoelzro_phone joined #perl6
17:28 * Ven looks at his slide saying "rakudo-js (sadly abandoned)" thinking he's wrong now o/
17:28 Ven (being wrong)++
17:28 hoelzro_phone joined #perl6
17:34 TimToady Progress depends on being wrong frequently, but not always.  :)
17:35 TimToady This is why most managers hate progress, though there are two different failure modes here.
17:36 TimToady ...named "never" and "always"...
17:37 timotimo TimToady: do you want to figure out why the version perl6-bench has doesn't spread fires?
17:40 TimToady oh, that's a bug I fixed at some point; something to do with losing the identity of the neighbors through an assignment rather than a binding, I think
17:41 TimToady since it precalculates all the neighbors by reference, it has to make sure the main array continues to refer to those same containers
17:41 TimToady otherwise you're always checking your original unburning neighbors, not the currently burning ones
17:42 * TimToady is trying to remember how to fix it
17:43 TimToady unfortunately the current RC entry is the Warming algorithm
17:51 TimToady and I don't really see offhand where the problem is; it copies the state back into @!grid[$i][$j], so it should retain the identity of the container in the step function
17:58 TimToady maybe that's why I changed the algo, because I couldn't figure out why this one didn't work anymore...
18:12 TimToady the problem seems to be that all the neighborhoods end up with the same list, so something is getting reused that shouldn't
18:16 Ven joined #perl6
18:20 TimToady but if I fix that, it still doesn't work :(
18:30 Akagi201 joined #perl6
18:30 TimToady I suspect the problem is take-rw being busted
18:31 TimToady I know how to work around that now, so maybe I'll just do that for now
18:32 BizarreCake joined #perl6
18:37 dalek perl6-bench: c5a7716 | TimToady++ | perl6/rc-forest-fire:
18:37 dalek perl6-bench: make forest fire propagate
18:37 dalek perl6-bench:
18:37 dalek perl6-bench: work around an apparent bug in take-rw
18:37 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/c5a7716719
18:38 timotimo do we test take-rw in spectests much?
18:39 TimToady dunno
18:39 timotimo hm.
18:40 TimToady m: my $x = 42; my $y := (gather take-rw $x)[0]; $y = 43; say $x;
18:40 camelia rakudo-moar 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«43␤»
18:40 TimToady well, that works
18:42 TimToady m: my $x = 42; my @y := gather take-rw $x; @y[0] = 43; say $x;
18:42 camelia rakudo-moar 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«43␤»
18:42 TimToady that works too, hmm
18:44 guru joined #perl6
18:49 timotimo RT #77334 is probably due to "for" no longer returning values if it's the last statement in a function
18:49 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=77334
18:49 timotimo r: sub foo { my $s; do for 1..3 { $s += $_ } } ; say foo()
18:49 camelia rakudo-jvm 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
18:49 camelia ..rakudo-{parrot,moar} 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«6 6 6␤»
18:50 TimToady that's just aliasing
18:51 TimToady r: sub foo { my $s; do for 1..3 { nqp::decont($s += $_) } } ; say foo()
18:51 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«1 3 6␤»
18:51 TimToady r: sub foo { my $s; do for 1..3 { +($s += $_) } } ; say foo()
18:51 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«1 3 6␤»
18:52 TimToady but yeah, needs the do there
18:54 TimToady maybe we should have a value() function or some such
18:55 TimToady nqp::decont is a bit unwieldy
18:56 TimToady now I'm wondering whether :kv should be called :kc if it returns the containers
18:56 TimToady and :kv if it deconts
18:58 TimToady it's always been kind of a pity that var and val start with the same letter...
19:01 FROGGS hehe
19:02 timotimo νal and var? :)
19:03 geekosaur sounds like an 80s primetime soap opera to me :p
19:06 FROGGS that --profile is so awesome!
19:06 TimToady .u ν
19:06 yoleaux U+03BD GREEK SMALL LETTER NU [Ll] (ν)
19:06 pecastro joined #perl6
19:17 klaas-janstol joined #perl6
19:25 hoelzro_phone joined #perl6
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19:34 Ven joined #perl6
19:46 lizmat m: say Num === Num
19:46 camelia rakudo-moar 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:48 masak the way forward with macros got quite a bit clearer during the attendees' dinner.
19:48 lizmat m: say $*PERL.compiler.version
19:48 camelia rakudo-moar 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«v2014.8.4.g.5.bd.2.d.48␤»
19:49 masak the missing piece that has now fallen into place (and there will be a blog post about this at some point) is that no, we're not going with QAST as the syntax-builder API.
19:49 masak we're going with something that's a facade of that, and a good bit above that in abstraction.
19:50 masak as a first approximation, for every syntactic construct in the STD.pm6 grammar, there will be some type in this API.
19:50 masak (hi #perl6)
19:50 TimToady yeah, QAST actually starts cheating pretty early :)
19:52 masak the winning argument for me was that a macro author doesn't "think" in QAST. it's way too low-level.
19:52 masak a macro author thinks in the primitives of individual language constructs.
19:52 TimToady and new slangoids get new types somehow
19:52 masak yep.
19:53 masak yes, the whole API should be written with extensibility in mind.
19:53 TimToady so it's not a Quasi AST :)
19:53 FROGGS hmmm, I think I have to see it... can't imagine what you have in mind
19:53 TimToady it's an Offical AST, one before 'P' :)
19:53 masak and the actions need to be in on this too -- they'll probably end up generating more PST than QAST.
19:53 * gtodd wonders if anyone has written lectured or blogged about macros
19:54 masak gtodd: blogged.
19:54 TimToady never
19:54 TimToady oooh, you mean Perl macros...
19:55 gtodd heh http://perl6advent.wordpress.​com/2012/12/23/day-23-macros/
19:55 masak gtodd: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog​/macros-progress-report-a-bit-of-d1 http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/mac​ros-progress-report-interesting-things http://strangelyconsistent.org/blo​g/macros-progress-report-d1-merged http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/mac​ros-progress-report-quantum-yak-shaving http://strangelyconsistent.org/blo​g/macros-progress-report-d2-merged http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog​/lexpads-and-why-roles-need-fixups
19:55 gtodd hehehe
19:56 Ven masak: it,s funny how you say that while I'm doing some Common Lisp trickery :)
19:57 sergot evening o/
19:57 masak [Coke]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=77334 is not valid any more, at least not with that kind of for loop.
19:57 sergot masak++: nice lighting talk :)
19:57 masak m: sub foo { my $s; ($s += $_ for 1..3) } ; say foo()
19:57 camelia rakudo-moar 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«6 6 6␤»
19:57 gtodd .. macros from the Lisp gods of yore  ...
19:57 sergot the last one I could have seen
19:58 masak [Coke]: need to do it that way instead :)
19:58 masak sergot: thanks :)
19:58 masak sergot: "last one I could see", I think you mean.
19:58 Ven well, I definitely think scheme/racket templates are easier than CL macros.
19:58 masak Ven: I will need to have a look at those. I glanced at them when last we spoke about Racket.
19:58 sergot uh, yeah, this is it :)
19:59 Ven masak: I don't know if I still have my little examples...
19:59 Ven the guide has a lot of template macros tho, look at them :)
19:59 Ven even macro-generating macros using templates
20:00 * Ven is probably going back to racket after this CL project...
20:01 timotimo masak: the stream stopped right when you were explaining the last bit and started the demonstration and i only got it f5'd when you were about done ;(
20:02 Ven oooh, I didn't know masak was talking :(
20:02 masak timotimo: well, what can I say. that was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
20:02 timotimo ;_;
20:02 * masak hugs timotimo
20:02 timotimo obviously the code has been pushed onto a memory-hole?
20:03 masak what, I should push it? that insignificant bit of code?
20:03 masak hokay.
20:03 timotimo i'd like to see it locally, too!
20:03 timotimo (and also feed it into the profiler
20:03 timotimo of course :)  )
20:03 flussence profile all the things!
20:03 masak timotimo: https://github.com/masak/camel-butterfly
20:04 masak timotimo: two things:
20:04 masak timotimo: you should probably start by loading https://github.com/masak/camel-b​utterfly/blob/master/canvas.html into a browser.
20:04 Ven masak: what was your talk about? any link?
20:04 Ven I didn't see it somehow (on the schedule) :o)
20:04 masak timotimo: also, https://github.com/masak/camel-​butterfly/blob/master/minimize currently blows up spesh, but it runs under `export MVM_SPESH_OSR_DISABLE=1`
20:05 sergot how does the profiler work? it throws "no file/dir" here
20:05 masak Ven: http://act.yapc.eu/ye2014/talk/5678
20:06 Ven ooh, it's a lightning one, that's why
20:07 masak yeah, the real talk is on Sunday.
20:08 timotimo i may miss the live version of that! :o
20:09 japhb jnthn, masak: Slide links, pretty please?  For those of us in a timezone where "live stream" is not quite so easy ....
20:09 yoleaux 13:38Z <timotimo> japhb: it'll now be very interesting to be able to run benchmarks with nqp-m --profile (and perl6 --profile later when it works) with a given (or default (big)) work load
20:09 timotimo maybe i can streamdump it
20:09 japhb Um ... methinks I can't wait to see those slides now.  :-)
20:09 timotimo yep.
20:10 timotimo big parts were just showing something in a browser ... hint hint :)
20:10 sergot Oh, it doesn't work for perl6, rigth. so my previous question is expired :))
20:10 timotimo it does
20:10 masak japhb: no slides for my lightning talk. just pure Perl 6.
20:10 timotimo since nqp learnt how to install the template for the profiler
20:10 masak japhb: you really should get ahold of jnthn's slides, though.
20:10 masak japhb: I don't think they're online yet.
20:11 timotimo AFK
20:13 japhb When you see him, tell him I will be standing on the other side of the planet with arms akimbo tapping my foot impatiently until he uploads his slides.  ;-)
20:14 masak well, I left him in a bar, and won't be seeing him until tomorrow.
20:14 japhb Awww
20:14 masak so, you'll have to tap away in the meantime...
20:15 japhb My ankle will get really tired.  :-P
20:18 masak practice makes perfect.
20:18 TimToady his ankle will get perfectly tired
20:19 * masak .oO( tapping corrupts. perfect tapping corrupts perfectly. )
20:22 lizmat hmmm.... must be a double entendre in here, which involves supplies of beer
20:24 * lizmat is clearly too tired to make funny jokes
20:24 lizmat sleep&
20:30 dalek perl6-bench: 3b60830 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | perl6/rc-forest-fire:
20:30 dalek perl6-bench: Untabify perl6/rc-forest-fire
20:30 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/3b60830158
20:30 japhb TimToady: Thanks for the rc-forest-fire fix!  :-)
20:32 Akagi201 joined #perl6
20:33 Ven joined #perl6
20:34 masak trees burning properly now?
20:34 Ven masak: https://github.com/Nami-Doc/readlis​t.cl/blob/master/readlist.lisp#L39 this is what racket macros
20:34 Ven *don't* look like.
20:34 Ven I really, really, really like scheme/racket by-default hygiene...
20:35 masak Ven: got it.
20:36 Ven masak: (just linking it because I just finished it, and it kinda looks cool. First time I do some Common Lisp o/)
20:36 Ven (though a bit unwiedly)
20:36 gtodd so inside a macro  one may encounter ...  "unquotes"  {{{ say "dread me?" }}}
20:36 anaeem1 joined #perl6
20:37 Ven gtodd: everywhere.
20:37 gtodd which seems to make sense in that it looks like some kind of template syntax  ...
20:37 Ven less with scheme's templates, though.
20:38 gtodd Ven: yeah the idea of macros seems pretty standard in "functional" langugage ...
20:38 Ven no, not really
20:39 Ven only a few of them. Mostly because ... There aren't many homoiconic languages
20:39 Ven (common lisp is far from being functional)
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: e950e75 | TimToady++ | / (2 files):
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: move LOLLY hack from parser down into harness
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: This causes our new version to default to LOLLY without having to set
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: LOLLY=1, but the test harness now forces LOLLY=1 for fudging, so we're
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: testing against the new semantics.  At the same time, the latest tests
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: can still be used by old versions for now if that is desired, since
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: the harness is version specific and the old harness doesn't set LOLLY.
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: In a month or so we can delete all mention of LOLLY from the harness
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: and from roast.  But no harm if we forget. :)
20:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e950e75441
20:41 Ven haskell has template haskell, but that's string programming
20:41 gtodd I thought I read that the unquote part of perl6 macros was going to go away but aren't macros and some kind of unquoting tied together somehow?
20:41 gtodd oh
20:42 TimToady we just want to revise the {{{}}} syntax
20:42 TimToady it's ugly as a sinful coyote.
20:42 gtodd Ven:  ahh so it can be done different ways under the hood ...
20:42 Ven and hard to type :D
20:43 TimToady well, I care more about hard to read
20:43 Ven gtodd: depends on the language. Common Lisp macros, for one, are really "only" quoting/unquoting. Full power, but full pain.
20:43 gtodd TimToady: OK :-D  not sure why I thought {{{}}} looked normalish
20:43 masak 'night, #perl6
20:43 FROGGS gnight masak
20:43 TimToady o/
20:43 Ven Scheme offers an alternative, the templates, where you have patterns etc. Deals with repeating, replacing, and hygiene for you
20:43 gtodd sleep well
20:43 * Ven kinda wishes he was at sofia right now... :)
20:44 * TimToady was supposed to be there, but became a bubblehead.
20:44 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
20:44 gtodd Ven: but it is not like just running eval or perl5 code filtering
20:45 Ven no, those are c-like macros
20:45 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
20:45 Ven string programming, as I said :)
20:45 TimToady unclean!
20:46 gtodd ok good so perl6 is going to do the real best thing :-)  in the tradition of excellence it has established :-)
20:46 Ven I sure hope so :P.
20:46 flussence maybe we should have 「...」 for unquotes the way we allow «...» for <<...>> :)
20:46 TimToady can't, that's a real thing already
20:46 flussence it is? oh nuts.
20:46 TimToady m: say 「...」
20:46 camelia rakudo-moar 5bd2d4: OUTPUT«...␤»
20:47 TimToady the short form of Q//
20:47 Ven please, least utf8 :(
20:47 gtodd are those katakana "quotes" ?
20:47 flussence (kinda neat that that's there, though)
20:47 Ven .u 「
20:47 yoleaux U+FF62 HALFWIDTH LEFT CORNER BRACKET [Ps] (「)
20:47 TimToady oh, by all means, we want to make it hard to write macros, because people *will* abuse them. :)
20:47 TimToady yes, the halfwidth ones
20:47 TimToady so very rarely used in real text :)
20:47 Ven don't make it hard, make it thoughtful :)
20:48 gtodd Ven: but there's some cool IPA Cherokee and Canadian Syllabics  characters that would set perl6 appart :-)
20:48 TimToady well, I was thinking something in the latin-1 range
20:48 Ven It's just so hard for me to type... Not worth the trouble.
20:48 TimToady at the time I was considering ¤
20:48 TimToady which is just COMPOSE-ox
20:48 flussence along that line of thinking, those're a bad choice anyway since they're semi-easy-to-get-at (via «say 'a' ~~ /./»)
20:48 Ven I was doing some agda last time, and it was really painful having to type \lambda \r \all etc for all its utf8-ness
20:49 TimToady so get a real keyboard
20:49 Ven you mean an APL keyboard? That's not a real keyboard.
20:49 TimToady actually, just define yourself a compose key
20:49 TimToady or use an editor with those chars
20:49 gtodd haha or several
20:49 TimToady like in vi, « is just ^K<<
20:49 Ven don't want to. It's painful. I shouldn't have to do painful stuff
20:50 TimToady yes, you should!!!!
20:50 TimToady it's good for your immortal soul!
20:50 Ven no it's not, it just makes me want to use better tools ;)
20:50 TimToady anyway, huffman coding says some things have to be hard
20:50 Ven perl6 doesn't want me to suffer because of how I think, that's why I like it.
20:50 TimToady thre are no better tools :)
20:50 Ven than perl6?
20:51 TimToady waterbed theory says if you huffmanize differently, you just make other things hard instead :)
20:51 TimToady anyway, if you want hard, invent a time machine and go install some more characters into ASCII :)
20:52 Ven "I don't want to argue about this" is another way of saying what you're saying
20:52 TimToady or just teach everyone to use a language that makes everything else hard instead, and like it :)
20:52 TimToady what, I'm arguing, or didn't you notice :)
20:52 gtodd as long as comes with a script or instructions to get those extra characters working in an xterm with vim or emacs on some old version of openbsd ... it'd be cool  :-)
20:53 pmurias Ven: how is template haskell string programming?
20:53 TimToady basically, in another ten years you'll be dictating your program, and it won't matter
20:53 flussence (space cadet keyboards are obsolete these days anyway, since Xorg has the useful/Eldritch-horror ability to differentiate between altgr-shift and shift-altgr...)
20:53 Ven pmurias: the types are terrible
20:54 TimToady anyway, we always provide ugly ASCII workarounds anyway, like the set operators
20:55 TimToady so maybe if we use ¤ we also reserve XO or some such
20:55 Ven TimToady: well, it's your language anyway. You're free to pick any kind of symbol you like. I'm free to disagree with that pick ;). (I disagree with several other things in perl6 anyway)
20:55 * TimToady oh noes!
20:56 pmurias TimToady: having a concise/good way to quasi quote languages other then perl6 would be greate
20:56 TimToady let me guess, « and », and ∪ and ∩  :)
20:57 TimToady pmurias: that's not the Perl 6 view; the Perl 6 view is that all these other languages are merely dialects of Perl 6, so no problem :)
20:58 geekosaur ␁␄ :p
20:58 Ven .u ␁
20:58 yoleaux U+2401 SYMBOL FOR START OF HEADING [So] (␁)
20:58 FROGGS do we need different kinds of unquotes? if yes, then we could do it like the assertions in regexes and combine something...
20:58 * TimToady suspect the APL dialect will use a few more Unicode characters :)
20:59 TimToady we'll certainly make it as productive as it needs to be
20:59 TimToady at one point we were going to include the syntactic category, but that might come for free with the type of the object
20:59 TimToady depending on what masak++'s AST ends up looking like
20:59 pmurias quasi:lang(Ruby) {...} doesn't seem very concise
21:00 Ven pmurias: but macros will get you there :P
21:00 Ven I don't even really mind these symbols now that I have this comp, but old-me-on-windows would be screaming inside :P
21:00 Ven :P
21:00 Ven wow, that's a lot of :P.
21:01 TimToady use ruby; ... quasi { ruby { } }
21:01 TimToady jsut as you might say ruby { } in normal code after you've pulled it in with use
21:02 BenGoldberg .u ␄
21:02 yoleaux U+2404 SYMBOL FOR END OF TRANSMISSION [So] (␄)
21:02 TimToady or whatever you choose for the language shifter; it can be a single Unicode character if you like :)
21:02 pmurias quasi { ruby {...}} seems even worse than quasi:lang(Ruby) {...}
21:03 TimToady you're only writing this macro once, how hard to you have to try to golf it?
21:04 TimToady and if it's that hard, write your own macro to implement your own quasi-to-ruby and call it *anything*
21:04 TimToady there are no limits to what you can do
21:05 TimToady we intend to give you all the tools to nuke yourself in everyone's feet, if you so choose.
21:05 TimToady but...don't do that :)
21:05 Ven we shall (:
21:06 TimToady the aim is to give a perfectly extensible language, and then give sane people very little motivation for extending it by including everything already...but I reconize the joys of insanity as well
21:06 TimToady *cog
21:07 TimToady well, I had a short night last night for some reason, and *now* I don't want to argue about it :)
21:07 * TimToady -> nap
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21:45 timotimo japhb: all you need to do is --profile after perl6 or nqp and it'll tell you what you have to look out for
21:45 timotimo oh, i wasn't scrolled down
21:47 avuserow joined #perl6
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22:33 TimToady m: say (1,2; 3,4).perl
22:33 camelia rakudo-moar e950e7: OUTPUT«lol($(1, 2), $(3, 4))␤»
22:33 Akagi201 joined #perl6
22:33 TimToady there we are
22:35 TimToady though now we should just teach that to output (1,2; 3,4)
22:43 jnthn Slides from my talk now at http://jnthn.net/papers/20​14-yapceu-performance.pdf
22:43 jnthn japhb: ^^
22:45 TimToady jnthn++ for 0..1000000 :)
22:47 TimToady m: say [1,2; 3,4].perl
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar e950e7: OUTPUT«[$(1, 2), $(3, 4)]␤»
22:57 xragnar_ joined #perl6
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23:38 dalek rakudo/nom: c793d80 | TimToady++ | src/core/ (2 files):
23:38 dalek rakudo/nom: use lollipop syntax for .perl where appropriate
23:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c793d80233

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