Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-09-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:07 [Coke] diakopter: ah, so maybe it's not entirely me.
00:08 [Coke] camelia: m: say 3
00:08 camelia [Coke]: rakudo-moar ee805a: OUTPUT«3␤»
00:08 diakopter well it's calmed down now
00:09 diakopter also there's some script kiddie with username larry installing advanced persistent threats that run entirely in a turing-complete interrupt-throwing CPU-instruction-less scheme
00:13 TimToady looks like a new java process is spawned every 30 seconds or so, and there's always 100%-200% CPU load on it
00:18 TimToady now it's moar, so I guess it's just compiling
00:18 TimToady and now it's parrot, duh
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00:22 TimToady oh, yeah, I'd forgotten the failure mode of STD now, it randomly picks one op= to not parse, but it's a different one every time you try to make, sigh
00:23 TimToady so looks like something is dependent somewhere on memory trash
00:24 diakopter *startle*
00:24 diakopter that um sounds like a perl bug
00:24 TimToady yes, both machines that fail are running 5.18.2
00:27 TimToady and nothing stresses p5 quite like std does...
00:27 TimToady funny though that it's always an op= parse that fails
00:28 TimToady so it's something that is specifically poked by op= parsing
00:28 diakopter try a huge parse without any of those?
00:28 TimToady well, one can rewrite all the op=, of course, but that's, like, work...
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00:36 diakopter .oO( next yapc::na as a Perl Roast? such ironic? )
01:02 TimToady wow, you wouldn't think that a module named Try::Tiny would pull in ten billion other modules...
01:04 TimToady that Moose does this is not unexpected, however :)
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01:11 TimToady and...the Moose install fails  >.<
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01:23 TimToady nope, STD fails under 5.20.1 too
01:23 TimToady dinner &
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01:38 tony-o timotimo: is there a flag on tap to detect whether it is closed ?
01:41 diakopter if it said it wasn't closed, it wouldn't be guaranteed to be still open when you tried to use it ^_^
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01:50 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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04:15 timotimo tony-o: should we perhaps make the parsing routine for Request's headers less duplicative for the work it does?
04:16 timotimo it'll be splitting and parsing the first header for every byte after the first header's : or something like that
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04:36 tony-o timotimo: yea i can work on that more too, i'm working on allowing a plugin to hijack the connection
05:04 timotimo tony-o: i'm now interested in building some routing module that would fit nicely into HTTP::Server::Async; do you know of prior art that's worth stealing ideas from?
05:09 timotimo also, do we have anything sensible that we can use to serve file content? like sendfile?
05:09 timotimo (possibly way premature optimization here)
05:13 timotimo another thing i was wondering about: what ways are there to gradually send chunks of data as an answer to an XMLHttpRequest and have it run some javascript code for each chunk we send off through the socket?
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05:41 * timotimo reads and learns about server-sent events and EventSource
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05:43 timotimo seems like it's a nice alternative to websockets if you only need to stream events from the server to the client, but not send responses back through the exact same channel
05:43 timotimo and it doesn't require the upgrade dance at all
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06:09 vendethiel ingy: missing readme update :p
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07:47 Ven well met, #perl6
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07:57 sergot mo/rning
08:03 Ven well
08:07 FROGGS lizmat: thanks, I'll look into it
08:07 yoleaux 16 Sep 2014 22:10Z <lizmat> FROGGS: feels like 4c7922850a is adding ~ .5 second to setting parsing
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09:21 lizmat leont: are you seeing an improvement with my interpretation of your fix?
09:31 dalek rakudo/nom: 46a0d29 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Proc/Async.pm:
09:31 dalek rakudo/nom: We don't need a hash for extra promises
09:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/46a0d29ef3
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09:47 dalek specs: 3a9b7a1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
09:47 dalek specs: Promise.keep/break no longer need explicit values
09:47 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/3a9b7a13c8
09:51 Ven re: features matrix: "Argument coercion" - did we fix the syntax?
09:52 Ven LoL - what's missing?
09:52 Ven m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4; say @a[].perl; say @a[*].perl
09:52 camelia rakudo-moar 567da3: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2, 3, 4)␤(1, 2, 3, 4)␤»
09:53 Ven meh. One day I'll understand the difference )
09:53 lizmat (1,2,3,4) is a Parcel
09:53 lizmat m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4; say @a[].WHAT; say @a[*].WHAT
09:53 camelia rakudo-moar 567da3: OUTPUT«(Array)␤(Parcel)␤»
09:54 Ven m: my @a = ^5; say @a[]; @a[].push: 3; @a = ^5; say @a[*]; @a[*].push: 4;
09:54 camelia rakudo-moar 567da3: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4␤0 1 2 3 4␤Cannot call 'push'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Any:U \SELF: *@values, *%_)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ObUjVVC9pL:1␤␤»
09:54 lizmat the Zen-slice just returns self
09:54 Ven zen is the [], right?
09:54 lizmat yes
09:55 Ven So, I can't push to a [*].
09:55 Ven because a parcel is immutable.
09:55 Ven Why Any:Undefined tho?
09:56 lizmat whuch Any:U ?
09:57 Ven "none of these signatures match:␤:(Any:U \" on @a[*].push
09:59 Ven I like how green that feature matrix is, btw :-)\
09:59 lizmat the Any:U is for
09:59 lizmat m: my %h; %h<a>.push: 42; say %h.perl
09:59 camelia rakudo-moar 567da3: OUTPUT«("a" => [42]).hash␤»
10:00 lizmat it vivifies an array
10:01 Ven mmh.
10:01 Ven m: my Parcel @a; @a.push: 3;
10:01 camelia rakudo-moar 567da3: OUTPUT«Type check failed in .push; expected 'Parcel' but got 'Int'␤  in method push at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:8604␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/2E8sXvzB0B:1␤␤»
10:01 Ven of course...
10:02 lizmat that's an Array of Parcel
10:03 Ven yep :).
10:03 Ven m: for 1, 2, (3, (4, 5)[*], 6)[] { .say }
10:03 camelia rakudo-moar 567da3: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤»
10:10 lizmat https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/mac/releasenotes/InterapplicationCommunication/RN-JavaScriptForAutomation/index.html   # nice for when we have rakudo on JS
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10:13 dalek rakudo/nom: 0c54522 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Promise.pm:
10:13 dalek rakudo/nom: Bring Promise up to spec wrt keep/break
10:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0c54522d3e
10:14 dalek rakudo/nom: 79b6cec | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | docs/ChangeLog:
10:14 dalek rakudo/nom: Beef up the ChangeLog a bit
10:14 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/79b6cecc24
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10:39 dalek rakudo/nom: 9d2cfad | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Proc/Async.pm:
10:39 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't need to pass values to .keep/.break anymore
10:39 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9d2cfad1b3
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10:51 lizmat jnthn, brrt: this might interest you: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/4012dd0819e30dd8196b
10:51 lizmat Making Str.words always return a Parcel breaks building core setting with a malloc error
10:52 lizmat (from 9d2cfad1b369c1d5)
10:54 Ven "thou shall never pass a string, a bool or an int to a function" - somebody. # lizmat++
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12:12 Ven m: sub m(:@a?) { say @a.perl }; m; say "alive"
12:12 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Regex not terminated.�at /tmp/aDu7UPQtzn:1�------> [32m m(:@a?) { say @a.perl }; m; say "alive"[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�Couldn't find terminator ;�at /tmp/aDu7UPQtzn:1�------> [32m m(:@a?) { say @a.perl }; m; say …»
12:12 Ven m: sub m(:@a?) { say @a.perl }; m; say "alive";
12:12 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'match'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Cool:D: Any $target, *%adverbs)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/UU2T9ETHaA:1␤␤»
12:13 Ven it just .. loops here.
12:22 leont m is a regex operator, it's not calling the function…
12:23 leont I think…
12:25 timotimo m: $_ = "hello there"; m; ... ;;
12:25 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: ( no output )
12:25 timotimo m: $_ = "hello there"; say m; ... ;;
12:25 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«「hel」␤␤»
12:27 timotimo m: $_ = "hello there"; say m(*);
12:27 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/oy6Eh10fNGâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    m used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
12:27 timotimo for this reason, you cannot use ( ) as the delimiters for regex operators
12:28 Ven m: sub k(:@a?) { say @a.perl }; k; say "alive";
12:28 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«Array.new()␤alive␤»
12:28 Ven kek
12:28 Ven thanks timotimo
12:28 timotimo <3
12:29 Ven timotimo: is there an equivalent to p5's s///r; ?
12:29 timotimo what does /r do?
12:29 PerlJam Ven: $string.subst(...)
12:30 Ven timotimo: return instead of in-place modify
12:30 PerlJam timotimo: it's similar to if you'd done  ($copy = $string) =~ s////;
12:30 Ven PerlJam: :(
12:36 leont Has anyone ever tried to use grammars on a indenting based format? I'm not sure how to efficiently maintain the indenting state.
12:36 timotimo we have a module for that
12:36 timotimo oh
12:36 timotimo it's not on the project list :\
12:37 Ven leont: see masak 's blogpost (strangelyconsistent.org IIRC)
12:37 Ven FWIW, I'm not happy with any current solution :(
12:38 Ven I saw some grammars from cognome to do that as well
12:38 PerlJam leont: specifically http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/parsing-indented-text
12:39 timotimo masak: shall i add text::indented to the ecosystem?
12:46 Ven timotimo: doesn't really seem... extendable to me. At least not in its current form, I think
12:50 timotimo it's more like a preprocessor
12:52 Ven Right. But what do we want? One-pass parsing! ;P
12:52 nwc10 when do we want it? This week!
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12:55 lizmat cycling&
12:57 leont Yeah, what Ven said
12:57 masak yeah.
12:57 yoleaux 16 Sep 2014 19:25Z <[Coke]> masak: if he's on target for the release in 2 days
12:57 masak I've had second thoughts about how text::indented should really look.
12:57 masak I'm willing to give it a second chance at some point, and then add that to the ecosystem.
12:57 leont It would be helpful I think if grammars could have attributes, but I'm having the impression that doesn't work
12:58 FROGGS ohh, the right ppl are online.... how do I get the average per key of a list of hashes like: ({ a => 42, b => 1 },{ a => 11, b => 3 })
12:58 Ven FROGGS: %hash.map({ .key => avg(.value) }) ?
12:59 Ven m: my %h =a => 1, b => 2; %h.map({ .perl.say });
12:59 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«"a" => 1␤"b" => 2␤»
12:59 nwc10 fa7a1cc97d064d8c8cadfbe0fbc565af0211c63b reveals a Rakudo on Moar spectest hang
12:59 FROGGS Ven: I've got a list of hashes, not a single hash
12:59 Ven oh, right :D
12:59 Ven I read an hash of arrays]
13:00 nwc10 with it, t/spec/S17-procasync/kill.rakudo.moar hangs forever with a parent moarvm (stuck in a futex), a zombie child, a child stuck in a futex, and a child spinning on epoll
13:00 nwc10 parent of fa7a1cc97d064d8c8cadfbe0fbc565af0211c63b is a syntax error in that spectest, so not clear what actually introduced the problem
13:00 masak FROGGS: you smash them into pairs, then .classify into key, then take hyper averages.
13:00 nwc10 suspect that automatic spectests may hang, unless they have a way to time out
13:00 FROGGS hmmmm
13:01 Ven m: my @froggss_hash = {a => 42, b => 1 }, { a => 3, b => 200 }; my %h; @froggss_hash.map({ %h{.key} += .value for .value }); say %h.perl
13:01 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«No such method 'value' for invocant of type 'Hash'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/RkC45aOhO4:1␤␤»
13:01 Ven m: my @froggss_hash = {a => 42, b => 1 }, { a => 3, b => 200 }; my %h; @froggss_hash.map({ %h{.key} += .value for $_ }); say %h.perl
13:01 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«No such method 'key' for invocant of type 'Hash'␤  in block  at /tmp/QEipJDun9H:1␤  in method reify at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:8185␤  in method reify at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:8021␤  in method gimme at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:8508␤  in method sink …»
13:01 Ven m: my @froggss_hash = ${a => 42, b => 1 }, ${ a => 3, b => 200 }; my %h; @froggss_hash.map({ %h{.key} += .value for $_ }); say %h.perl
13:01 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/nJj0xtHie4�Unsupported use of ${a => 42, b => 1 }; in Perl 6 please use $(a => 42, b => 1 )�at /tmp/nJj0xtHie4:1�------> [32mmy @froggss_hash = ${a => 42, b => 1 }[33m�[31m, ${ a => 3, b …»
13:01 FROGGS masak++
13:01 * Ven sighs at flattening
13:02 FROGGS m: say ({ a => 42, b => 1 }.flat,{ a => 11, b => 3 }.flat).classify(*.key)
13:02 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«"a" => ["a" => 42, "a" => 11], "b" => ["b" => 1, "b" => 3]␤»
13:02 Ven m: m: segfaultpls
13:02 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/yCBtIPRosVâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    segfaultpls used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
13:02 Ven m: m: say 'a'
13:02 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«a␤»
13:02 Ven m: m: my @froggss_hash = ${a => 42, b => 1 }, ${ a => 3, b => 200 }; my %h; @froggss_hash.map({ %h{.key} += .value for $_ }); say %h.perl
13:02 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/7OgFEr8m7P�Unsupported use of ${a => 42, b => 1 }; in Perl 6 please use $(a => 42, b => 1 )�at /tmp/7OgFEr8m7P:1�------> [32m: my @froggss_hash = ${a => 42, b => 1 }[33m�[31m, ${ a => 3, …»
13:02 Ven well that segfaults here.
13:03 Ven m: say ({ a => 42, b => 1 }.flat,{ a => 11, b => 3 }.flat).classify(*.key).map({ .map(*.value) })
13:03 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«"a" => 42 "a" => 11 "b" => 1 "b" => 3␤»
13:03 masak m: sub avg { [+](@^x)/@x }; my %h1 = <a 42 b 1>; my %h2 = <a 11 b 3>; say (%h1.pairs, %h2.pairs).classify(*.key).map({; .key => avg .value>>.value })
13:03 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«"a" => 26.5 "b" => 2.0␤»
13:03 masak FROGGS: ^
13:05 FROGGS thank you :o)
13:05 masak my pleasure.
13:09 FROGGS that's it then: https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/142df67239d20915245c
13:11 leont Is there any reason why attributes don't work in Grammars? I didn't instantiate this thing for nothing…
13:11 FROGGS lizmat: stage parse of my MATCH patch is only 0.013s slower
13:12 leont Or can I give arguments to rules? It's not clear to me how that would work…
13:12 FROGGS m: grammar Foo { has $.bar }
13:12 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: ( no output )
13:12 tadzik m: grammar A { has $.b }; A.new(b=>7); say A.b
13:12 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method b at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3186␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/26Ax12gzNL:1␤␤»
13:13 tadzik m: u wot m8
13:13 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/eu4LF1SVqBâ�¤Undeclared routines:â�¤    m8 used at line 1â�¤    u used at line 1â�¤    wot used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
13:13 tadzik oh
13:13 masak m: grammar G { has $.foo = "OH HAI"; regex TOP { { say $.foo } } }; G.parse("")
13:13 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
13:13 masak m: grammar G { has $.foo = "OH HAI"; regex TOP { { say $.foo } } }; G.new.parse("")
13:13 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
13:13 tadzik m: grammar A { has $.b }; say A.new(b=>7).b
13:13 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«7␤»
13:13 masak leont: that *is* kinda weird.
13:13 tadzik works for me
13:13 FROGGS masak: no
13:13 FROGGS not really
13:13 tadzik so they do work, maybe they're not quite accessible in rules
13:13 masak TimToady tends to say that .parse is a constructor.
13:13 FROGGS mind that self in a regex is something else
13:14 masak self in a regex is something else!?
13:14 FROGGS m: grammar G { has $.foo = "OH HAI"; method TOP { say $.foo } }; G.new.parse("")
13:14 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«(Any)␤No such method 'MATCH' for invocant of type 'Bool'␤  in method parse at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13923␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/EHzQkoO4Tq:1␤␤»
13:15 leont tadzik: yeah, they're not accessible in the rules AFAICT
13:15 masak ran stresstest. t/spec/S17-procasync/basic.t and t/spec/S17-procasync/print.rakudo.moar both fail with "Parse errors: Bad plan."
13:15 leont Which makes them rather useless
13:15 FROGGS m: class Foo { has $.bar = "abc"; method baz { "abc" ~~  /$.bar/ } }; say Foo.new.baz
13:15 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«No such method 'bar' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13953␤  in method baz at /tmp/IQ0W3MWKHa:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/IQ0W3MWKHa:1␤␤»
13:16 masak error message: Default constructor for 'Proc::Async' only takes named arguments
13:16 tadzik m: grammar A { has $.b; method selfie { say "but first..."; self }; token TOP { selfie() } }; say A.new(b=>7).parse("")
13:16 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/9JDp7Kcjm1â�¤Null regex not allowedâ�¤at /tmp/9JDp7Kcjm1:1â�¤------> [32mt first..."; self }; token TOP { selfie([33mâ��[31m) } }; say A.new(b=>7).parse("")[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        â€¦Â»
13:16 FROGGS masak: do you see my err message?
13:16 tadzik I should try that off channel
13:16 masak FROGGS: I do.
13:16 FROGGS masak: self is the cursor
13:17 FROGGS in a regex { } too
13:17 masak FROGGS: seems you changed the rules from "in a grammar" to "in a regex" on the way, though :)
13:17 masak FROGGS: there's nothing a priori to me that would make attrs not be accessible inside a grammar.
13:17 FROGGS masak: a regex token in a grammar is just a regex, no?
13:17 masak it's a kind of method, IIUC.
13:17 FROGGS but it is not code
13:18 FROGGS it should work in a real method though, dunno why it does not
13:18 masak *nod*
13:18 masak anyone know anything about the two stresstest failures in t/spec/S17-procasync/basic.t and t/spec/S17-procasync/print.rakudo.moar?
13:19 masak seems something changed around Proc::Async recently.
13:19 FROGGS lizmat: knows about the print.t IIRC
13:19 FROGGS err, s/://
13:25 Timbus_ thought i'd work a bit more on this gtk strangeness. moarvm segfaulted at p6capturelex ().. ah okay... *sips coffee and stares blankly at screen*. hmm. that was a good effort, imo. time to play video games.
13:25 tadzik ooh, tell me more
13:25 tadzik what games? :)
13:26 Timbus_ probably openttd :o
13:26 Timbus_ programming threads -- with trains
13:26 tadzik I like trains
13:27 Ven I LIKE TRAINS.
13:27 Timbus_ lol
13:28 ajr joined #perl6
13:29 leont masak: until recently Proc::Async didn't really have such tests. It not working isn't new AFAIK, it being tested is
13:36 leont Can anyone explain to me what <foo('bar')> is supposed to do in a regexp? I mean, it calls a function/method, but then what? How do I usefully use that?
13:37 timotimo you can call into a rule/regex/... like that
13:39 leont Is there any example of anything using it? That could be most enlightening.
13:40 masak STD.pm6, I'm sure.
13:41 ajr_ joined #perl6
13:41 Ven also, it's a match, not a zero-width assertion
13:41 masak ah, yes. print.t and basic.t were both added Monday.
13:42 masak I'd like to either remove them from spectest.data, or fudge them as skip (since they fail).
13:42 leont Shouldn't that be TODO then?
13:44 rurban joined #perl6
13:45 masak TODO is for "parses but fails the test". this dies at parse.
13:45 masak hm, or not necessarily when parsing the test. but it dies running it.
13:49 guru joined #perl6
13:52 Ven Why is it that my ruby IDE is better at some kind of escape analysis than my compilers?
13:57 masak probably because the IDE source code is newer and more pliable...
13:59 dalek nqp-js: e6ef35a | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (2 files):
13:59 dalek nqp-js: Iterating over hashes.
13:59 dalek nqp-js:
13:59 dalek nqp-js: Implement nqp::iterval, nqp::iterkey_s.
13:59 dalek nqp-js: .key and .value missing.
13:59 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/e6ef35a29a
13:59 dalek nqp-js: 11a008a | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
13:59 dalek nqp-js: Emit better formated if statements.
13:59 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/11a008ae36
13:59 pmurias joined #perl6
14:00 masak oh, hm. seems basic.t and print.t pass now. re-running stresstests.
14:01 ajr_ joined #perl6
14:03 Ven pmurias++
14:05 Ven masak: right. But still :P.
14:06 Ven I'm kinda excited about clion. Well, I'll be as soon as it's not cmake-only anymore
14:08 leont masak: it tends to run unreliable, it seems
14:09 mst joined #perl6
14:10 pmurias we will need a Perl 6 IDE/editor support at some point
14:11 Ven pmurias: maybe I'll work on an intellij plugin. I'm kinda fine with vim.
14:11 Ven Well, a p6-ctags might be good
14:11 Pleiades` joined #perl6
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14:12 ajr joined #perl6
14:12 masak t/spec/S17-procasync/kill.rakudo.moar seems to hang here.
14:13 liztormato Sorry about the Proc::Async issues. Will look at them when I'm back, in a few hours
14:13 PerlJam .oO( kill rakudo moar?!? )
14:14 liztormato Please take the P::A tests out of spectestdata in the mean time
14:14 nwc10 masak: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-09-17#i_9369887
14:15 pmurias Ven: I use and like vim too
14:15 ajr_ joined #perl6
14:15 masak liztormato: no sweat. just giving early warning. release day tomorrow. I'd like for us to be relatively stable then. whether that means taking things out, fudging, or fixing.
14:15 cognome joined #perl6
14:17 masak nwc10: aha.
14:17 masak nwc10: this indicates to me I should remove kill.t from spectest.data right now.
14:17 nwc10 masak: that will stop the 3 backends running it by default?
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: 5753dcc | masak++ | t/spectest.data:
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Revert "Add Proc::Async.kill tests"
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: It hangs on Moar.
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: See http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-09-17#i_9369887
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: This reverts commit abbd3767684b04d1ba677affd62a008ce8f62fa2.
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5753dcc883
14:18 masak nwc10: someone else is welcome to add it back with 2 backends running it.
14:18 liztormato joined #perl6
14:18 nwc10 masak: yes, not running it for now seems wise.
14:19 masak I'm not 100% sure how to do that.
14:19 ivanshmakov joined #perl6
14:19 liztormato They should only run on moar anyway. So marked in spectestdata
14:19 masak oh. then that was the right thing.
14:23 treehug88 joined #perl6
14:25 FROGGS joined #perl6
14:29 dalek nqp-js: 3984fc2 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
14:29 dalek nqp-js: Make the call op make use of .stored_result.
14:29 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/3984fc2a7d
14:29 dalek nqp-js: a31cb51 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
14:29 dalek nqp-js: stored_result takes a :$want which reduces the amount of temporary variables.
14:29 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/a31cb515f6
14:29 dalek nqp-js: b3b5a13 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
14:29 dalek nqp-js: Remove dead code.
14:29 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/b3b5a13100
14:29 dalek nqp-js: f1cfa6d | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
14:29 dalek nqp-js: Use add_sideffect_op more.
14:29 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/f1cfa6d51d
14:34 TimToady m: my \b1 = (a => 42, b => 1).Bag; my \b2 = (a => 11, b => 3).Bag; my \bv = [(+)] b1, b2; my \bk = bag map *.keys, b1, b2; say bv »/« bk
14:34 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«"a" => 26.5, "b" => 2.0␤»
14:34 masak TimToady++
14:35 FROGGS O.o
14:35 TimToady hypers work on hashes too
14:35 dalek nqp-js: 1acca08 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
14:35 dalek nqp-js: Move method description above the correct method.
14:35 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/1acca08b64
14:36 TimToady and you were just struggling to do what bag unions do naturally
14:36 pmurias Ven: re IDE plugin one of the things that I'm considering doing is creating a Perl 6/NQP brackets plugin
14:36 Ven TimToady: bag map *.keys??
14:36 Ven oh, read that wrong. (scala style)
14:37 masak m: my $b1 = (a => 42, b => 1).Bag; my $b2 = (a => 11, b => 3).Bag; my $bv = [(+)] $b1, $b2; my $bk = bag map *.keys, $b1, $b2; say $bv »/« $bk
14:37 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«"a" => 26.5, "b" => 2.0␤»
14:37 masak ...for those of us who still don't think sigilless is all that cool :)
14:38 pmurias Ven: the brackets editor is written in javascript, so using nqp-js the plugin could be written in NQP (or in the future Perl6) and the brackets editor is web-dev oriented which seems an important platform for Perl 6
14:38 raiph joined #perl6
14:38 Ven pmurias: right, I've seen it. Wasn't it ace-compatible?
14:39 masak t/spec/S17-procasync/print.rakudo.moar failed one test (13) and TODO passed another (12).
14:39 masak it seems a bit flappy here.
14:40 TimToady m: my \b1 = (a => 42, b => 1).Bag; my \b2 = (a => 11, b => 3).Bag; my \bv = [⊎] b1, b2; my \bk = bag map *.keys, b1, b2; say bv »/« bk
14:40 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«"a" => 26.5, "b" => 2.0␤»
14:40 TimToady works with ⊎ too
14:40 TimToady .u ⊎
14:40 yoleaux U+228E MULTISET UNION [Sm] (⊎)
14:40 masak ⊎se all the ⊎nicode! \o/
14:40 liztormato masak: It is very flappy. Hope jnthn can have a look at it before release
14:41 mst joined #perl6
14:41 colomon release tomorrow!
14:41 masak heh. unless someone pairs with him until he keels over :P
14:41 jnthn liztormato: Not likely. :(
14:41 TimToady m: my \b1 = (a => 42, b => 1).Mix; my \b2 = (a => 11, b => 3).Mix; my \bv = [⊎] b1, b2; my \bk = mix map *.keys, b1, b2; say bv »/« bk
14:41 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«"a" => 26.5, "b" => 2.0␤»
14:41 TimToady okay, works with mixes too
14:41 jnthn Trouble is, I got Proc::Async to the point where it did the handful of things I immediately needed.
14:42 masak I think we should simply not include those tests yet.
14:42 colomon TimToady: we have hyper over Bags and Mixes working?!  \o/
14:42 jnthn And so I'm watching y'all rediscover the things I know are undone but didn't have chance to do yet :(
14:42 TimToady since nobody specified that the values were integers
14:42 jnthn For example, the low-level MoarVM bit is already pushing a sequence number out
14:42 jnthn But I didn't get around to writing the thingummy on the Perl 6 side that makes sense of them.
14:42 TimToady colomon: no, we have hyper over hashes working, and Bags and Mixes are just hashes
14:43 jnthn Thus the dis-ordering.
14:43 colomon TimToady: …. was going to say same thing, but the result type will be different, eh?
14:43 TimToady m: my \b1 = (a => 42, b => 1).Mix; my \b2 = (a => 11, b => 3).Mix; my \bv = [⊎] b1, b2; my \bk = mix map *.keys, b1, b2; say (bv »/« bk).WHAT
14:43 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«(Hash)␤»
14:43 liztormato jnthn: So it should be mored in seq number order?
14:43 jnthn liztormato: Yeah.
14:43 TimToady note that it returns a hash
14:43 colomon TimToady++
14:43 liztormato jnthn: Ok, I can fix that
14:43 jnthn liztormato: The seq number is there so you can make sure that happens
14:43 jnthn liztormato: But the mechanism needs care
14:44 jnthn liztormato: Basically, I suggest you do it with a mutex and a condvar associated with it.
14:44 jnthn Oh, maybe the mutex alone is enough
14:44 jnthn It needs a "currently more-ing" flag along with a "current sequence number/" one or so
14:45 TimToady m: my \b1 = Mix(a => 42, b => 1); my \b2 = Mix(a => 11, b => 3); my \bv = [⊎] b1, b2; my \bk = mix map *.keys, b1, b2; say Mix(bv »/« bk)
14:45 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«Cannot coerce to Mix with named parameters␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/NVKaa7zh7k:1␤␤»
14:45 jnthn Probably a buffer too
14:45 TimToady heh, not sure coercers should know about named parameters
14:45 liztormato So the callback can be called by multiple threads at the same time?
14:45 jnthn liztormato: Yes.
14:45 jnthn liztormato: Well, that's not quite the right way to see it.
14:46 colomon m: my \b1 = Mix(a => 42, b => 1); my \b2 = Mix(a => 11, b => 3); my \bv = [⊎] b1, b2; my \bk = mix map *.keys, b1, b2; say (bv »/« bk).Mix
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«Cannot coerce to Mix with named parameters␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Lwcr6UGw0h:1␤␤»
14:46 jnthn liztormato: How it *actually* works is that we are throwing the events into the ThreadPoolScheduler's queue.
14:46 TimToady m: my \b1 = Mix(a => 42, b => 1;); my \b2 = Mix(a => 11, b => 3;); my \bv = [⊎] b1, b2; my \bk = mix map *.keys, b1, b2; say Mix(bv »/« bk)
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Z2etlqd06R�Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' �at /tmp/Z2etlqd06R:1�------> [32mmy \b1 = Mix(a => 42, b => 1[33m�[31m;); my \b2 = Mix(a => 11, b => 3;); …»
14:46 jnthn liztormato: And so multiple threads may grab the things.
14:46 colomon m: my \b1 = (a => 42, b => 1).Mix; my \b2 = (a => 11, b => 3).Mix; my \bv = [⊎] b1, b2; my \bk = mix map *.keys, b1, b2; say (bv »/« bk).Mix
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«mix(a(26.5), b(2))␤»
14:46 isacloud______ joined #perl6
14:46 liztormato jnthn: Ok. That explains a lot
14:46 colomon m: my \b1 = (a => 42, b => 1, c=>3).Mix; my \b2 = (a => 11, b => 3).Mix; my \bv = [⊎] b1, b2; my \bk = mix map *.keys, b1, b2; say (bv »/« bk).Mix
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«mix(a(26.5), b(2), c(3))␤»
14:46 jnthn liztormato: The solution, though, is to make sure only one thread canre it at a time.
14:47 TimToady m: my \b1 = Mix('a' => 42, 'b' => 1); my \b2 = Mix('a' => 11, 'b' => 3); my \bv = [⊎] b1, b2; my \bk = mix map *.keys, b1, b2; say Mix(bv »/« bk)
14:47 camelia rakudo-moar 9d2cfa: OUTPUT«mix(a(26.5), b(2))␤»
14:47 * colomon wants a raised eyebrow smiley
14:47 liztormato jnthn: Gotcha
14:47 jnthn liztormato: I'm pretty sure, now I think about it, that you only need a lock. And a flag.
14:47 liztormato Flag?
14:48 jnthn Yes, for "something is more-ing a value Right Now"
14:48 jnthn Just a boolean.
14:48 jnthn there's various cases
14:48 jnthn The idea is that you only hold the lock momentarily, though.
14:49 jnthn Consider a chunk of data arriving. The first one. So, we see the sequence number is 1. We take the lock, and set the boolean saying we're more-ing. We then release the lock.
14:49 jnthn And call .more
14:50 jnthn Another thread, while we're doing the more-ing, pulls the next thing out of the queue. We take the lock, see the boolean is set. So we just put the new data we got into a buffer and let go of the lock.
14:51 jnthn That second thread does nothing more.
14:51 jnthn When the first thread then comes back from the .more-ing, it takes the lock, and notices that some other data is in the queue. It then takes responsibility for doing the more-ing of that thing that arrived.
14:51 jnthn That's quite cache friendly, as well as satisfying the one-at-a-time invariant.
14:51 Celelibi joined #perl6
14:51 pnu_ joined #perl6
14:52 jnthn Also need to handle the unfortunate case where the seq numbers show that you're out-of-order
14:52 liztormato In that way, are we sure things are in order
14:52 jnthn But again, you store the thing for the future.
14:52 jnthn And let the thread that gets the thing that goes "in the gap" .more both of them.
14:52 liztormato Ok. That answers my question
14:52 [Coke] (peanut gallery from the backlog; fine to remove tests that aren't fully baked with a release coming up, we can add them back in when they work. (we're at a stage now, we shouldn't be adding any tests that fail to spectest)
14:52 jnthn It's a slightly fiddly mechanism to write.
14:53 jnthn Note that IO::Socket::Async wants exactly the same.
14:53 chenryn joined #perl6
14:53 liztormato Will have a stab at the fiddle. ;-)
14:53 jnthn But sockets spew slower than processes so we get away with it more often ;)
14:53 jnthn But if we fix it for one, we fix it for both. :)
14:53 leont jnthn: glad to see my basic problem analysis was right, and that you have a clue of how to fix it :-)
14:53 [Coke] someone please verify that we get a decent jvm run for the release. Mine is currently exploding on host08
14:54 clkao joined #perl6
14:54 * TimToady can do that
14:54 jnthn leont: Yeah. Sorry. :( I wish I'd been able to get to it before you ended up discovering it the hard way...
14:54 [Coke] TimToady++
14:54 mr-foobar joined #perl6
14:54 TimToady assuming you don't mind running HEAD of everything
14:55 jnthn leont: About the async code in Moar: its a bit gnarly but it's more tedious that it is difficult.
14:55 jnthn leont: The key thing to know is that we run a single event loop thread that is used to process async IO stuff
14:55 leont I'm started to get it, but it takes some time
14:55 jnthn leont: We give it work by sending AsyncTask objects.
14:56 jnthn Those are sent to it via a concurrent queue.
14:56 jnthn When it wants to notify that something is done, it schedules the callback to run by shoving it on a concurrent queue, supplied by a scheduler.
14:56 * [Coke] re-pings the planeteria support person again.
14:57 jnthn So that thread never actually runs Perl 6 land code, and can never get blocked up with such things.
14:57 [Coke] Util++ did the parrot release.
14:57 ajr_ joined #perl6
14:57 liztormato jnthn: In text mode, can we be sure we get line by line?
14:58 leont I think I get the async parts, it's more that's still alien to me.
14:58 leont s/more/moar/
14:58 jnthn liztormato: Can you define "text mode"?
14:58 [Coke] do we need line by line or just "in order" ?
14:58 liztormato Stdout_chars
14:58 leont I'm sure I'd understand a lot more once I grok MVMROOT, for example
14:58 jnthn liztormato: It's not about lines.
14:59 jnthn liztormato: Just about bunches of chars.
14:59 liztormato Ok
14:59 liztormato Just checking
14:59 jnthn liztormato: Can write a linify supply combinator of course ;)
14:59 liztormato Yup
14:59 jnthn leont: Oh, I can explain that one. :)
15:00 liztormato Supply.lines coming up
15:01 leont I guess it's doing stack-machine thingies
15:01 jnthn Not really
15:02 jnthn It's about the GC
15:02 jnthn The MoarVM GC can move objects
15:02 jnthn If you were to do something in C like:
15:02 jnthn MVMObject *fo = ...;
15:03 Ven .oO( once they have roots, they don't move )
15:03 jnthn ...something that allocates...
15:03 jnthn Then after the allocating, the pointer in fo (I meant to type foo :)) would point to where the object *used to be*, not where it is now.
15:04 jnthn MVMROOT is used to tell the GC about adresses on the C stack that it needs to update should we run GC
15:04 leont Ah, right
15:04 jnthn Note that stack scanning is not an option for moving GCs
15:04 jnthn Because you aren't just looking at it, you need to update it.
15:04 jack_rabbit joined #perl6
15:05 jnthn And updating an integer that just happens to look pointer enough would be rather bad. :)
15:05 jnthn The other thing that's GC related that shows up a bunch in C code is MVM_ASSIGN_REF.
15:06 TimToady .oO(When is conservative too progressive?)
15:07 jnthn Whcih really does a pointer assignment, but also trips a write barrier if we're going to violate the gen2 -> nursery constraint.
15:07 jnthn So, MVMROOT is about precise GC, and MVM_ASSIGN_REF is about generational GC.
15:08 jnthn Between them we can uplod the various invariants the GC cars about.
15:08 jnthn *cares
15:08 * TimToady upholds jnthn's uploads
15:09 jnthn The lag on this SSH is enough I can't spot/fix my typos in time :)
15:09 pmurias Ven: I think it's using CodeMirror
15:10 jnthn The wee packets get tired, what with having to walk their way up and over the great wall...
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15:13 leont Kind of makes sense, though it makes me wonder if given concurrency the rooting isn't too late.
15:14 leont And does the block mean rooted while in this block?
15:14 jnthn Yes
15:15 jnthn The MVMROOT macro just saves you writing a push and pop call
15:15 jnthn The temp roots stack is per thread, just as the C stack is, so it's fine
15:16 jnthn It's important to be clear that this isn't about the particular object pointed to, it's about the pointer itself
15:16 jnthn So what's actually pushed is a pointer into the C stack
15:17 jnthn So the stack is of MVMCollectable **, *not* MVMCollectable *
15:18 * liztormato continues cycling&
15:18 * leont understands now
15:18 leont (maybe)
15:18 jnthn :)
15:19 jnthn The GC is stop-the-world.
15:19 jnthn So there's no concerns about one thread GCing while another is running.
15:19 liztormato left #perl6
15:20 jnthn (It's also parallel in that multiple threads can participate in the GC to get it done faster; for thread affinity/cache friendliness reasons, threads typically GC their own nursery, pass work when they encounter objects owned by another thread, and work-steal from any threads that marked themselves as blocked - perhaps on thread join, or sleep, or obtaining a lock, and so on)
15:24 Ven pmurias: isn't it using it?
15:26 pmurias vendethiel: you are Ven's alter ego?
15:27 pmurias vendethiel: according to the wiki Brackets is using CodeMirror instead of Ace
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15:37 carlin is this error my fault, or a moar/rakudo's fault:
15:37 carlin Unhandled exception: When invoking bind, Provided outer frame 0x1964f70 (MVMStaticFrame bind_one_param) does not match expected static frame type 0x1964d10 (MVMStaticFrame )
15:38 ggoebel11111111 joined #perl6
15:38 FROGGS carlin: not your fault
15:39 FROGGS carlin: you should never see such low level error messages
15:39 dalek nqp-js: 20af910 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
15:39 dalek nqp-js: Refactor out args groups merging.
15:39 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/20af910c18
15:39 dalek nqp-js: 2f1995e | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
15:39 dalek nqp-js: Refactor the 'call' op handling some more.
15:39 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/2f1995e5d2
15:39 dalek nqp-js: 820163d | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
15:39 dalek nqp-js: Implement calling methods.
15:39 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/820163d225
15:39 dalek nqp-js: ea1190b | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (2 files):
15:39 dalek nqp-js: Pass test 68.
15:39 dalek nqp-js:
15:39 dalek nqp-js: Implement key and value methods on the thing returned from the hash iterator.
15:39 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/ea1190b56a
15:40 TimToady well, unless you're hacking in the low-level, in which case it might be your fault :)
15:40 FROGGS :P
15:41 carlin FROGGS: okay, that's good then
15:41 carlin well, good for me at least :p
15:45 TimToady [Coke]: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7eb91dfe9a31f3d69a92
15:46 leont It seems :temp and :let aren't accepted in rules (the way :my and :state are)
15:46 TimToady they aren't declarators really
15:47 TimToady otoh STD uses :temp
15:48 leont S05 says «As quasi declarators, temp and let are also recognized», but I get an «Unrecognized regex modifier :let» error when trying to use them
15:52 TimToady so NYI basically, and rakudo works around the lack of :temp somehow
15:53 jnthn By the grammar being written in NQP? :P
15:53 TimToady well, STD uses it to handle nested RX mods, for instance
15:54 jnthn Yeah. We do something equivalent.
15:54 TimToady m: say "foo" ~~ / :i ( :r FOO ) /
15:54 camelia rakudo-moar 5753dc: OUTPUT«「foo」␤ 0 => 「foo」␤␤»
15:54 jnthn Just lack the temp sugar in NQP
15:54 jnthn No reason we can't support it in Rakudo
15:54 TimToady something obviously keeps the :i inside the :r there
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15:54 jnthn Right
15:55 jnthn I know where the code doing it is )
15:55 jnthn Thing is we have no assignment in NQP, and temp/let hang off container semantics.
15:55 TimToady that's just :temp %*RX; in STD
15:56 TimToady nod
15:56 dalek rakudo/nom: 8ae74d2 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
15:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Support :temp/:let declarators in regexes.
15:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8ae74d2d0f
15:56 TimToady that was...fast...
15:57 jnthn That gets 'em to parse and compile at least :)
15:57 jnthn *least
15:57 jnthn Might need to see if let has the desired semantics.
15:57 TimToady how hard can the rest be >.<
15:57 jnthn As in, I dunno if the default definition of success semantics for routines cover what we need in regex land...
15:58 TimToady :foo should be invisible on the "success" level, I'd think
15:59 jnthn OK. Well, can tweak if what I just put in ain't enough. :)
15:59 TimToady as in, :foo should probably be in sink context anyway
16:01 TimToady and the Nil notionally returned by that notional sink should notionally not count as lack of notional success :)
16:02 jnthn Well, it's notionally midnight here and I not so notionally have work tomorrow, so should probably rest a bit :)
16:02 TimToady night, night
16:03 jnthn 'night
16:03 PerlJam m: my $x = 42; try { let $x = 57; fail }; say $x;  try { let $x = 23 }; say $x;
16:03 camelia rakudo-moar 5753dc: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: ␤   at <unknown>:1  (/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-1/languages/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:throw:4294967295)␤ from src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13512  (/home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-1/languages/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:sink:29)␤ f…»
16:04 dalek nqp-js: 098a0dc | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/bin/run_tests:
16:04 dalek nqp-js: Add passing test 36.
16:04 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/098a0dc113
16:04 dalek nqp-js: fc1230b | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/bin/run_tests:
16:04 dalek nqp-js: Add passing test 22.
16:04 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/fc1230b993
16:04 dalek nqp-js: b428c2e | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/bin/run_tests:
16:04 dalek nqp-js: Add passing test 38.
16:04 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/b428c2e3bc
16:05 PerlJam um ... So, I was going to say "I didn't even know that let worked", but now I'm not so sure that it does.
16:05 TimToady I don't believe that's the specced behavior :)
16:05 PerlJam Works locally, so I'm going to go with cameliabug
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16:09 TimToady speaking of cameliabugs, back to trying to unbitrot STD wrt perl-5.20.1
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16:11 TimToady at the moment, it appears that <?before '='> in infixish is either looking in the wrong place in the string, or looking in the wrong string
16:12 TimToady but that still doesn't explain how it just fails occasionally, which feels like a malloc/free issue
16:19 carlin it makes me feel better that even Larry Wall struggles with perl sometimes
16:19 nwc10 TimToady: where is STD, and is there a terse test case?
16:19 nwc10 I might be able to bisect to find the commit which does it in
16:19 nwc10 which may help
16:21 PerlJam nwc10: if it "fails occasionally" you may need to run the test several times to get something that shows failure/success for the bisection
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16:24 gtodd how do/will nqp-js <--> perlito  relate? will perlito be able to use nqp-js or will the fantasticness of nqp-js surpass perlito?
16:24 TimToady while the offer is appreciated, I think I'm zeroing in on it already; $C->_EXACT('=') is not matching occasionally for some reason
16:24 TimToady despite sitting right there on an =, according to substr
16:35 TacitSage hi, i'm newcomer here. somebody can tell me which are the paradigms that perl 6 supports well presently?
16:36 PerlJam TacitSage: all of them  :)
16:38 TacitSage all? concatenative, array, oop protoype-based, functional reactive, dependent types, etc too?
16:38 TimToady well, logic is a bit weak
16:38 gtodd reactive++ :-)
16:39 TimToady though we have primitives for logic programming that are close to being useful
16:39 TimToady and macros need more work
16:40 gtodd TactSage: try asking if it is designed to make it possible to maybe support future unknown paradigms :-)
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16:41 TimToady and our generic types do not yet compose very well
16:42 TacitSage will perl6 supports first-class macros (run-time) as lisp, and meta-circular evaluation (it doesn't yet support)?
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16:42 TacitSage *if does not yet support* sorry
16:44 TimToady yes, those are already close to adequate, if not adequate (we're rethinking macros at the moment to tie them into our model of slang generation)
16:45 TimToady and masak++ is coming up with an AST model for the semantic manipulations
16:45 TimToady at the moment we'd have to work with QAST, which is a bit too low-level
16:46 * leont wants those semantic manipulations, badly
16:46 TimToady but pretty much the whole compiler is built that way on a fundamental level, so this is mostly just providing official API to it
16:48 gtodd I await the fruits of GLR ... having no ability to help directly I will constantly make perl6 parse big log files ... do pushups situps etc
16:49 * gtodd gives p6 a huge piece of vitamin rich  kale
16:49 TimToady TacitSage: we can't, of course, close that loop quite as tightly as Lisp does, since we don't use s-exprs, but we're trying to make that loop as small as possible, given a richer syntax
16:53 vendethiel .tell pmurias vendethiel is me, home, ven is me either at work or on my laptop, and I also use vendethiel- sometimes :-)
16:53 yoleaux vendethiel: I'll pass your message to pmurias.
16:53 TimToady on prototype oo, we haven't done it yet, but 6model is designed to support things like that
16:54 TacitSage thank
16:54 TimToady a lot of the design of Perl 6 has been to not get everywhere immediately, but to consider how to get close to everywhere from the start, so it's possible later
16:55 vendethiel TacitSage: dependent type, probably not, however ;)
16:55 vendethiel well, if we get get decidables `where`s...
16:56 vendethiel -get
16:56 TimToady what's a few halting problems among friends...
16:56 vendethiel no
16:56 vendethiel turing completeness is a bug :)
16:58 vendethiel (but one it's rather convenient to have. of course, unless you're trying to solve said halting problem)
16:58 TimToady but the syntax, the semantics, and the metamodel are all hijackable, so how hard can it be?  :)
16:58 vendethiel you just need a turing-complete type system... :P
16:59 TimToady that would be one that can pass the Turing Test, right?
16:59 vendethiel at least one that doesn't solve (yet) the halting problem :)
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17:00 vendethiel TimToady: to be fair, I already demonstrated that the type system was turing complete
17:01 TacitSage turing completeness is brainf*ck (too hard for humans), not? so, i can say that p6 will be system/computerf*ck (too hard for machines)?
17:01 vendethiel TacitSage: uuh... not really. Turing completeness just says you can do a few maths operations and have infinite loops :P
17:01 TimToady People can, and do, say whatever they like about Perl 6.  :)
17:01 vendethiel (I mean, p6's type system)
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17:03 dalek Inline-Perl5: 0513cdd | nine++ | / (4 files):
17:03 dalek Inline-Perl5: Set UTF-8 flag on strings passed to Perl 5.
17:03 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/0513cdd14f
17:05 leont lizmat: your version of my patch has broken my code by reintroducing the double-done issue
17:05 TimToady bad netweather today...
17:05 nine Turns out, writing Inline::Perl5 is a great way to learn Perl 6. I'm curious how a P5 thing maps to P6. I figure it out, write code for what I learned and a new feature is born ;)
17:05 leont Fix would be http://paste.scsys.co.uk/424120
17:05 vendethiel nine: and p6 people thank you :-)
17:06 TimToady well, I *was* going to go work on STD some more, but you folks keep sayin' interesting things :P
17:07 * lizmat is back
17:07 lizmat leont: that would be a copy/pasto on my side
17:07 lizmat will fix
17:09 dalek rakudo/nom: f0a4b50 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Proc/Async.pm:
17:09 dalek rakudo/nom: We should only do .done at the end, leont++
17:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f0a4b50e3f
17:09 lizmat leont: ^^
17:10 leont :-)
17:10 [Coke] TimToady: thanks. seems mostly clean.
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17:13 [Coke] IWBNI someone else could fudge those. :)
17:26 dalek specs: 075aec9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
17:26 dalek specs: Spec Supply.lines/words
17:26 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/075aec9436
17:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: d22f0eb | nine++ | / (3 files):
17:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: Support floats passed from P5 to P6
17:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/d22f0eb7aa
17:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: 764ec13 | nine++ | / (3 files):
17:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: Support passing floats from P6 to P5
17:32 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/764ec13e35
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17:34 nine So this is it. I'm out of ideas.
17:35 nine Now I need some real world usage of Inline::Perl5 to find out what's missing.
17:36 avuserow nine++
17:36 [Coke] nine++
17:36 vendethiel nine++, right
17:36 PerlJam nine++  Can you use perl modules that have an XS component with it?
17:37 nine PerlJam: since Aug 24th
17:37 nine Even before it could return strings from P5 to P6 :)
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17:46 tadzik nine: is there already a full-blown binding to DBIx::Class as a proof to the world? :) I seem to recall that being one of our ideas in that bar on yapc
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17:53 ingy vendethiel: ta
17:54 vendethiel ta?
17:54 lizmat very british
17:54 nine tadzik: I've posted some examples where I used DBIx::Class in the first week. Now with subclassing support one could probably even write a whole DBIx::Class schema in Perl 6...
17:54 ingy australian
17:54 ingy vendethiel: fixed the readme. ta.
17:55 vendethiel ah, alright
17:56 tadzik nine: that'd be fun :)
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17:57 nine tadzik: DBIx::Class still seems to work :)
17:57 nine perl6 -Ilib -e 'use Inline::Perl5; my $p5 = Inline::Perl5.new; $p5.use("Atikon::DB::Timemngt"); my $schema = $p5.invoke("Atikon::DB::Timemngt", "connect", "dbi:Pg:database=timemngt"); say $schema.resultset("Product").find(1234).id;'
17:57 nine 1234
17:57 tadzik :)
17:57 tadzik that's fantastic
17:57 tadzik maybe I'll shove it into work code tomorrow somewhere and see what happens :D
17:58 nine yeah!
17:58 lizmat nine: you're going to talk about that at the APW, right ?
17:58 nine lizmat: yes
17:58 lizmat cool!
17:58 vendethiel APW?
17:59 lizmat Austrian Perl Workshop
17:59 lizmat http://act.useperl.at/apw2014/
18:00 timotimo i should probably sign up there now that i have booked the hotel room
18:00 lizmat timotimo: that seems wise  :-)
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18:04 FROGGS masak: status report so far https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/78c5203d0b145ca57196
18:05 nwc10 timotimo: and set your t-shirt size correctly if you haven't yet
18:05 FROGGS masak: panda@parrot fails, I try now to fix that before the release
18:05 timotimo :)
18:05 TimToady this is bizarre, for some reason the _from and the _pos hash entries are swapped in the infix_postfix_meta_operator's result
18:06 woolfy I don't want to be a distraction. I don't want to be a distraction.  But, but, puppies!  http://news.distractify.com/matt-buco/puppy-swarms-are-amazing
18:07 TimToady if P5 is putting results into the wrong hash entry, that's bad
18:08 lizmat there has been some work on hashes in P5 recently, afaik
18:09 TimToady nwc10: ^^^ are the random hash functions possibly occasionally producing bogus results somehow?  That would explain where the randomness of this failure comes from...
18:10 nwc10 TimToady: if so, you'd be the first person to report hittingit
18:10 TimToady STD produces bazillions of new hashes
18:10 FROGGS TimToady: that's unlikely, given the hugeness of cpan and the coverage of cpantesters
18:11 TimToady it has to be some peculiar confluence of events, because it's only that one rule that manages it
18:11 TimToady I'll dig further and see if there's something wrong in the rule itself
18:12 TimToady or might be something subtle in hash cloning, I suppose
18:13 TimToady if _from and _pos hash to the same bucket, maybe some optimization that prevents the string comparison from working right?  just guessing here...
18:14 TimToady well, I'd better rule out STD first
18:15 TimToady but there has to be some random component, and STD doesn't roll very many dice...
18:15 lizmat if STD uses hashes, it does it a lot in P5
18:16 TimToady every cursor is a hash, basically, and cursors are cloned frequently because they are notionally immutable
18:18 ab5tract TimToady: is there any chance you have a dependency on a consistent hash ordering?
18:19 ab5tract because that for sure has gone out the window in newer versions of Perl 5
18:21 rurban TimToady: I would try an older p5 first. perl5.14 e.g. Since 5.18+5.20 randomization is now even activated for small hashes and esp. for iters.
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18:24 ab5tract nine: very cool work on Inline::Perl5
18:29 FROGGS rurban: we know that it works on older perls
18:29 FROGGS at least I know for sure it works at least until 5.14.2
18:30 timotimo ooooh, scala.js
18:31 tony-o timotimo: i've updated the HTTP-Server-Async README and added an example of how to hijack the connection in the repo/examples
18:31 timotimo cool!
18:31 timotimo how extensively have you tested it?
18:33 rurban FROGGS: Then STD needs to look at its implicit hash order assumptions, also with iters now.
18:35 gtodd timotimo:  something like scala.js would be neat to have ... it seems to have a sort of core and then plugins and extensions
18:35 ab5tract implicit, that was the word i was looking for
18:39 PerlJam timotimo: looking at the code, I'd guess that it would still suffer from a similar sequencing problem like Proc::Async  (i.e. HTTP::Server::Async uses IO::Socket::Async which doesn't do anything special to guarantee the sequence).
18:39 timotimo yes
18:39 timotimo that's one thing that worries me greatly
18:42 vendethiel timotimo: scala.js is pretty nice :-)
18:44 timotimo i think i'd like it much more than coffeescript
18:44 timotimo no clue about typescript or livescript, though
18:44 gtodd perlito compiles perl6 to js ;-)
18:45 timotimo a very, very, very limited subset of perl6 ...
18:45 gtodd scala.js  seems to compile scala to js but has extra scala.js specific libraries for making buttons and GUIs etc
18:45 gtodd yeah ... it's very "complete"
18:45 gtodd by comparison
18:46 timotimo i'm really looking forward to what we'll be able to do with rakudo-js
18:46 lizmat looking at the P::A issues, I found that the order in which stdout is being read from the external process is ok
18:46 gtodd cool :-)
18:46 timotimo lizmat: read from the very same thread and without races etc etc?
18:46 lizmat it's the order in which the more's are being processed, is not the same
18:47 * timotimo is not too good at this kind of problem yet
18:47 lizmat no, from different threads *but* arriving in order
18:47 lizmat at least, in my test case right now
18:48 ForthTacitSage joined #perl6
18:48 timotimo strange
18:51 FROGGS lizmat: jnthn said that rakudo gets the information of the sequence passed by moarvm, but does not handle it yet
18:52 FROGGS http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-09-17#i_9370636
18:53 FROGGS in the meantime I think I've got a fix for IO::Handle.lines on parrot, which also should fix panda... at least I hope there is no additional bug to hunt down
18:53 lizmat FROGGS: yes, I know  /me is also liztormato  :-)
18:53 lizmat didn't we have a fix for that yet ???
18:54 lizmat I mean, parrot spectest doesn't hang, does it ?
18:54 FROGGS lizmat: it does not hang, but fails
18:54 FROGGS lizmat: I know you are also liztornado or some such, just thought you did not catch that line :o)
18:55 FROGGS see https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/78c5203d0b145ca57196#file-parrot
18:55 lizmat the first assumption was that the delivery by different threads would be the cause for out of order
18:55 Ven joined #perl6
18:55 lizmat but it also happens on the way "out" when moreing
18:56 anaeem1 joined #perl6
18:56 lizmat so I wonder whether we need a lower level solution to this, apparently more general, problem
18:56 BizarreCake joined #perl6
18:59 leont I can imagine a Supply that takes a [seq, data, err] triplet, and only more's on when it's contiguous
18:59 timotimo we'd prefer to do this in C, though, no?
18:59 leont This doesn't necessarily need to happen in C
19:00 lizmat leont: that's what I'm working on  :-)
19:00 timotimo we do this for every single byte/character, though ...
19:00 timotimo you do recall how fast perl6 code is? :)
19:00 leont No, for every chunk
19:00 leont Which may be big or small, depending on circumstances
19:00 timotimo oh, i did not realize that
19:00 leont IME it's often line-sized
19:01 leont but that may be an artifact of my situation
19:01 leont It's "whatever is available"
19:02 virtualsue joined #perl6
19:02 lizmat I guess if the external process is flushing after each line, it will come in as lines  :-)
19:03 FROGGS the usual chunk size we're trying to read in MoarVM is 64k
19:05 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 3e77c32 | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
19:05 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
19:05 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/3e77c32803
19:05 FROGGS ==> Successfully installed panda
19:05 FROGGS ===SORRY!===
19:05 FROGGS Cannot assign a non-Perl 6 value to a Perl 6 container
19:05 dalek perl6-roast-data: d86732c | coke++ | / (6 files):
19:05 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:05 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/d86732c40c
19:05 FROGGS gah!
19:09 dalek nqp: 2b8753c | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/parrot/QAST/Operations.nqp:
19:09 dalek nqp: bring nqp::eoffh on parrot in line with moar
19:09 dalek nqp:
19:09 dalek nqp: That is, eoffh will be true when the user code is at EOF, whether a read
19:09 dalek nqp: past EOF was attempted or not.
19:09 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2b8753c28a
19:09 araujo joined #perl6
19:09 araujo joined #perl6
19:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 0ac159e | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
19:09 dalek rakudo/nom: bump nqp rev for eoffh fix on parrot
19:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0ac159e863
19:10 slmult0_z joined #perl6
19:10 lizmat FROGGS++
19:12 amkrankruleuen joined #perl6
19:15 FROGGS perl6-j needs that eoffh patch too :/
19:18 bartolin joined #perl6
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom: 7fa4eef | usev6++ | src/core/ (2 files):
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom: add freebsd to KERNELnames
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom: since we have freebsd in PERL.DISTROnames (at least for moar)
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom: and in KERNEL.name (for all backends)
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7fa4eef687
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom: 391b487 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (2 files):
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #309 from usev6/nom
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom: add freebsd to KERNELnames
19:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/391b487113
19:21 bartolin Hi #perl6!
19:21 lizmat bartolin, welcome!
19:21 raiph nine, FROGGS, others: How do you feel about a widespread announcement on, say, Oct 15th, something like: "Best combinations of P5 and P6 by November 30, 2014 win prizes. Categories include v5, Inline::Perl5, p5helpsp6, p6helpsp5, P6newbie, P5newbie. Judges are nine, FROGGS, lizmat, etc. Winners to be announced Dec 10th as part of 2014 advent calend
19:21 raiph ar. No, this does not mean that this is THE Xmas."
19:21 yoleaux 16 Sep 2014 12:36Z <Ulti> raiph: yes the code base was identical but 8-22 might have been without the JIT, which at the time made no difference to the execution time
19:22 timotimo what is "P6newbie" and "P5newbie"?
19:22 raiph o/ bartolin
19:22 Ven timotimo: baby p5/p6 code :)?
19:23 raiph timotimo: I just meant someone who hasn't written P6 (P5) before
19:23 PerlJam raiph: A contest to encourage people to combine P5 and P6 sounds nice.
19:23 bartolin lizmat: I just logged in to ask about my pull request (#309). But you already merged it!
19:23 FROGGS raiph: that would mean that I would have to spend supporting ppl by using v5, and I'm not this is what I an do in that timeframe
19:23 lizmat bartolin++  :-)
19:23 FROGGS spend time*
19:24 PerlJam FROGGS: what if "support" meant growing other v5 hackers?
19:24 FROGGS PerlJam: that would be awesome :o)
19:25 FROGGS but perhaps not very likely
19:25 PerlJam perhaps not.
19:26 lizmat growing other v5 hackers would be high on my list to support
19:26 Ven (btw, timotimo, noticed how people are going the p6 route nowadays, with backend? scala.js just reuses scalac, idris can compile to python, js, ruby, llvm...)
19:26 bartolin lizmat: Since I am new to p6 (and to git as well): Is a pull request a good way to suggest such a change? Or are there better ways, like suggesting it on #perl6?
19:26 lizmat pull request is the best
19:27 bartolin great :-)
19:27 lizmat as it will automatically be picked up for testing by jarvis
19:27 lizmat so we know it will at least build  :-)
19:27 bartolin I see.
19:27 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
19:28 slmult0_z_t joined #perl6
19:28 bartolin I am planning to set up a freebsd box to run spectests on.
19:28 FROGGS bartolin++
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom: 20193d2 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Proc/Async.pm:
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom: Normalize stdout/stderr handling to a single sub
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom: So we can be sure we will handle both the same way in the future (as there
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom: were subtle differences in the past).  This does *not* fix any problems yet,
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom: it just makes sure I need to fix it at only 1 place.
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/20193d2ebc
19:29 lizmat this will also make sno very happy
19:29 awwaiid sorry if I missed it earlier -- am I the only perl6 advocate here at StrangeLoop?
19:29 lizmat (the freebsd smoke)
19:29 anaeem1 joined #perl6
19:29 awwaiid lambdacamel if you will
19:30 exixt joined #perl6
19:31 lizmat Mark Allen is a Perl person...
19:31 bartolin I thought about running perl6-roast-data from [Coke]++. I will not promise anything, but maybe I can set up something useful.
19:32 lizmat not sure how perl 6 minded he is
19:32 FROGGS bartolin: running the usual spectest targets might be helpful enough
19:32 FROGGS (in case you run into trouble running the summary)
19:32 lizmat https://thestrangeloop.com/sessions/dynamic-programming-at-ease-with-grammars-algebras-products feels like a potential perl 6 target :-)
19:32 lizmat masak ^^^
19:33 bartolin FROGGS: yes, I will start with plain spectests.
19:33 PerlJam lizmat: have you looked at IO::Socket::Async?  I don't see how yet or even if it's possible, but it would be nice if your sub could be used there as well.
19:34 lizmat PerlJam: will look at that after I got Proc::Async stable  :-)
19:34 PerlJam lizmat++ :)
19:39 nine raiph: Oct 10th is the Austrian Perl Workshop where I'll give my first talk about Inline::Perl5. I'd rather wait for those reactions and experiences.
19:39 raiph nine: gotchya
19:40 nine I've never used Inline::Perl5 in useful code myself :) Though I get the impression that other's are trying.
19:41 lizmat m: sub a(\a) { a => 42 }; say a("foo")   # half expected to see foo => 42
19:41 camelia rakudo-moar f0a4b5: OUTPUT«"a" => 42␤»
19:42 Ven joined #perl6
19:44 ab5tract joined #perl6
19:47 carlin If I use Inline::Perl5 to get binary data, I can I get that info Perl 6 without rakudo dying because of Malformed UTF-8
19:48 gtodd is the "-n" of  perl6 -n -e 'say so True '     just  wrapping what -e  sees in   for lines() { }  ?
19:49 gtodd so it becomes  perl6 -e 'for lines() { say so True }'
19:49 mberends joined #perl6
19:51 FROGGS gtodd: yes, exactly
19:51 dalek rakudo/nom: 8d45e69 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Proc/Async.pm:
19:51 dalek rakudo/nom: Make sure we .quit only if we're completely ready
19:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8d45e692fe
19:51 FROGGS carlin: try it :o)
19:51 gtodd carlin: because perl5  or Perl5:: is doing something bad w/ UTF-8  that perl6 won't accept?
19:51 FROGGS (I really have no idea)
19:54 dalek rakudo/nom: dae02a4 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Cursor.pm:
19:54 dalek rakudo/nom: fix for MATCH on parrot
19:54 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:54 dalek rakudo/nom: nqp::split returns a ResizeableStringArray which happily explodes in a for loop
19:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dae02a43ae
19:55 ClarusCogitatio joined #perl6
19:55 lizmat FROGGS++  , but shouldn't that be parrot specific code then ?
19:56 FROGGS lizmat: it is also low level enough that the others should profit
19:57 gtodd FROGGS: thanks .... I'm playing around with Supply and tap (where would "ofificial" docs be for those? in source) and I seem to need to send input into my script before the supply will start,
19:57 PerlJam gtodd: S17
19:57 carlin at the moment, anything that returns binary I'm just writing a perl5 sub for and converting it to hex in perl5 and returning that
19:58 timotimo the S17:1 more or less is the docs :\
19:58 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S17.html#line_1
19:58 gtodd PerlJam thanks
19:58 nine carlin: can you please open an issue for that? Have to find a solution...
19:58 lizmat almost all should be implemented...
19:58 nine I guess I should only return a Str for UTF-8 enabled strings and a Buf for everything else.
19:58 nine As far as I understand Perl 6...
19:59 PerlJam S17:Supplies # test
20:01 gtodd timotimo: lots of docs ... just hard for me to navigate without my perl5 POD crutches (the "metadocs" like perlsub etc) :-) ... cheers
20:04 FROGGS ahh, "S05-match/capturing-contexts.rakudo.jvm aborted 41 test(s)" is about .WHICH changes, and not about my MATCH patch... pheew
20:05 xragnar_ joined #perl6
20:05 ClarusCogitatio joined #perl6
20:05 carlin nine: done
20:05 anaeem___ joined #perl6
20:08 ab5tract colomon: around?
20:08 anocelot joined #perl6
20:08 colomon ab5tract: yes, but only for a minute or so more.
20:14 ab5tract okay then let's discuss some other time. it's not urgent.
20:24 kjs_ joined #perl6
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom: 5f30b5d | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Capture.pm:
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom: unbust Capture.WHICH on jvm
20:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5f30b5d713
20:33 ingy vendethiel: just did the Go port
20:33 ingy what a hateful experience
20:33 ingy I'm going to try to refactor now.
20:34 ingy GoLang *can't* really be that awful :\
20:34 Ven :)
20:34 lizmat FROGGS: so JVM doesn't know how to handle unboxed strings as keys ?
20:35 * vendethiel hates go
20:35 FROGGS no, that's a BOOTHash
20:36 FROGGS m: say nqp::hash()<foo> # that won't work on jvm
20:36 camelia rakudo-moar f0a4b5: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
20:36 lizmat j: say nqp::hash()<foo>
20:36 camelia rakudo-jvm f0a4b5: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
20:36 lizmat aha !
20:37 lizmat or not?
20:37 lizmat j: 42
20:37 FROGGS jvm is busted here
20:37 camelia rakudo-jvm f0a4b5: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
20:37 lizmat ah
20:37 lizmat No such method 'at_key' for invocant of type 'BOOTHash'
20:37 lizmat gotcha
20:42 FROGGS "java.lang.IllegalStateException: Current state = FLUSHED, new state = CODING" <-- the what?
20:45 vendethiel ingy: re := regexp.MustCompile("^([^aeiou]*)(.*)$")
20:45 vendethiel <- you sure you need to recompile it every iteration?
20:48 flussence joined #perl6
20:48 Ven joined #perl6
20:49 Ven ingy: for racket, I'm not going with the "OO" approach
20:49 Ven it doesn't rly make sense
20:49 Ven unless you want me to
20:50 Ven (imho, you shouldn't have gone that way with go :P)
20:52 ingy Ven: well the point is to be able to generate the code reasonably from an OO model object
20:52 Ven right, but stil :/
20:52 Ven hackish here
20:53 ingy Ven: also repull. just tightened up the Go a bit
20:54 ingy larned how to define object.Function() calls
20:54 Ven haha :)
20:54 Ven fn (blah) (blah) blah {}
20:54 ingy fn (blah) blah (blah) {} // no?
20:55 ingy anyway this isn't a rosetta exercise, even though it feels like it
20:56 ingy the point is to single source useful modules/libraries/packages/gems/whateveryoucallreusablecode
20:56 ingy that's been my vision for too many years now :(
20:57 ingy the reasoning is that nobody cares about the coding style of a CPAN module that just works
20:57 ingy or a Go or Racket module
21:00 pmurias joined #perl6
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21:01 pmurias gtodd: re nqp-js and perlito, I think fglock is concentrating on perlito5 (which is a p5 implementation) right now
21:01 yoleaux 16:53Z <vendethiel> pmurias: vendethiel is me, home, ven is me either at work or on my laptop, and I also use vendethiel- sometimes :-)
21:01 Ven right.
21:02 Ven ingy: well, it makes you unable to contribute back
21:02 ingy not really
21:02 ingy it's the same pattern as coffeescript
21:03 ingy except with CoffeeScript you have extra work to do just JS
21:03 ingy but with this you're fixes help 20 communities :)
21:04 ingy *your
21:05 Ven ingy: you don't understand
21:05 Ven how many people I've seen burst in rage
21:05 Ven when they realized a library they used - and wanted to contribute back to - was written in coffee.
21:05 Ven sooo.. I really, really, really don't believe in that :(
21:08 pmurias ingy: what is your newest multi backend compiler?
21:12 Ven ingy: I got a good racket start )
21:17 mr-foobar joined #perl6
21:18 rurban I would say Lingy is Ingy's latest
21:19 rurban http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/Lingy-0.0.2/lib/Lingy.pod
21:20 rurban But it only speaks YAML yet
21:23 ab5tract joined #perl6
21:23 ingy Lingy is an analog to 6model
21:23 ingy has no syntax
21:24 ingy and Cafe is my first syntax that will compile to Lingy
21:24 ingy and then to many backends
21:24 ingy https://github.com/ingydotnet/pig-latin-acme/blob/master/lib/Pig/Latin.cafe
21:24 ingy https://github.com/ingydotnet/pig-latin-acme/blob/master/lib/Pig/Latin.ly.yaml
21:25 ingy that yaml is a bit more concise that an actual compile
21:25 ingy I wanted to be able to write a not insanely complex yaml to test lingy
21:26 ingy The first real candidate to use this is Pegex
21:26 ingy and I've already "ported" most of Pegex to Cafe
21:26 ingy even though it's not runnable I still consider it the canonical source
21:27 leont nine: problem in p5 is that you can't know if something should be a Str or a Buf
21:27 pmurias will it be possible to translate between dialects?
21:27 ingy and update the other ports based on the Cafe
21:27 ingy pmurias: I'm not sure what you mean by dialects
21:28 pmurias the other syntaxes
21:28 ingy but one front end sister to Cafe, would probably be a Perl5/Perlito subset
21:28 ingy frontend or backend syntaxes?
21:28 pmurias front ends
21:28 ingy I think so
21:29 ingy but the results might not roundtrip perfectly
21:30 ingy since the frontend→lingy relationship is almost certainly many-to-one
21:30 ingy as with almost any language/syntax
21:31 ingy ie you could almost certainly translate from one to another, but the result would not be as nice as hand-coding
21:31 ingy why do you ask? (curious)
21:31 pmurias if the frontend syntaxes roudtriped perfectly (module whitespace) it would be possible for different coauthors of a module to use different languages
21:32 ingy nod
21:32 ingy kind of like perltidy
21:32 pmurias yes that's an analogy I thought of too
21:32 ingy people can code in their perl style and commit in the "group"-style
21:33 ingy Tony Bowden did this 15 years ago
21:33 ingy so I've heard
21:34 awwaiid lizmat: this entire conference feels like potential perl6 topics :)
21:34 ingy so a possibility here is that people can decompile a lingy perl6 module to BozoScript, make changes, and recommit as lingy/perl6
21:35 lizmat awwaiid: hehe  :-)
21:35 ingy awwaiid: which?
21:35 awwaiid strangeloop
21:35 lizmat never heard of it before, but will probably want to visit it next year
21:35 awwaiid today I learned about JVM bytecode building, React, Hack (facebook's PHP compiler written in ocaml)... and this is the pre-conference
21:36 lizmat and visit some old friends in the Champaign/Urbana area
21:36 awwaiid the videos from last year are published, they are what sold me
21:37 ingy lizmat: are you there as well?
21:37 ingy oh nm
21:37 colomon joined #perl6
21:37 awwaiid http://www.infoq.com/strange-loop-2013/ <- 2013 videos
21:37 lizmat ingy: next year, maybe  :-)
21:37 ingy awwaiid: sounds like a neat conference
21:38 awwaiid I'm mainly mad that it has been going since 2009 and I just heard about it to attend this year
21:38 awwaiid :)
21:38 lizmat awwaiid: I just heard about it from you  :-)
21:38 ingy awwaiid: how many peoples?
21:38 ingy me too
21:38 pmurias ingy: without being able to "tidy" between different frontend syntaxes I think multiple syntaxes would just lead to huge splintering of the lingy community
21:39 awwaiid 1100 attendees
21:39 awwaiid and apparently 1 #perl6 idler :)
21:39 ingy pmurias: I'm not sure I see that. example?
21:40 tony-o timotimo: testing isn't extensive on http-server-async
21:44 ingy pmurias: the idea that we are talking about (from my PoV) is that a module has a "source" and a "p6-install"
21:44 ingy and the latter points to the former
21:45 ingy hmm I see what you mean
21:45 ingy :)
21:45 ingy so when someone wants to fix a bug in the syntax of their choice
21:45 ingy the patch needs to get back into the original source repo
21:46 ingy without looking like crap
21:47 ingy brb
21:54 tony-o how do i use the .tell thing in here?
21:56 lizmat .tell tony-o Here are your messages
21:56 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to tony-o.
21:57 lizmat tony-o: do you need more ?
21:58 tony-o nope - just didn't know what the command was, thank you
21:58 yoleaux 21:56Z <lizmat> tony-o: Here are your messages
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: df69aa6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Proc/Async.pm:
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Initial stab at serializing stdout/stderr on P::A
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: I'm still not sure whether I covered the case that data may come in *after*
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: the pipe has been closed.  Probably not.  But at least this is an initial
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: stab at it.  FWIW, the associated test file fails about 1 in 5 times still
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: with segfaults and all sorts of other strange messages.  So there's still
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: work to be done!
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/df69aa63bd
22:02 lizmat leont: ^^^
22:03 lizmat jnthn: pretty sure there are still some race conditions, but I can't see them at the Perl6 level anymore now  :-(
22:03 lizmat jnthn: wouldn't be surprised we have some at a very deep Supply.more level
22:03 lizmat and on that thought, goodnight #perl6!
22:05 leont Awesome!
22:23 dalek nqp: 4ee0023 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/io/FileHandle.java:
22:23 dalek nqp: align eoffh on jvm to moar/parrot
22:23 dalek nqp:
22:23 dalek nqp: So we recognize EOF right at EOF from a user perspective.
22:23 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4ee00237a0
22:24 dalek nqp: e4385a2 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
22:24 dalek nqp: bump parrot revision to 6.8.0
22:24 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e4385a2870
22:28 dalek rakudo/nom: d0e09ee | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
22:28 dalek rakudo/nom: bump nqp rev for eof fixes and newer parrot
22:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d0e09eed31
22:29 tony-o m: my $p = Promise.new; start { sleep 3; $p.vow.break; }; await Promise.anyof($p);
22:29 camelia rakudo-moar 5f30b5: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
22:29 tony-o j: my $p = Promise.new; start { sleep 3; $p.vow.break; }; await Promise.anyof($p);
22:29 camelia rakudo-jvm df69aa: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
22:30 tony-o is that a bug ?  shouldn't $p's broken vow trigger the Promise.anyof ?
22:31 tony-o guess not, misread the docs
22:31 Psyche^_ joined #perl6
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22:49 leont It should
22:50 leont «If the first promise to produce a result is instead broken, then the resulting Promise is also broken.»
22:53 tony-o «The anyof combinator creates a Promise that is kept whenever any of the specified Promises are kept.»
22:54 tony-o that makes it sound like using anyof only triggers when any of the Pormises are Kepy
22:54 tony-o Kept
22:55 tony-o r: my $p = Promise.new; start { sleep 3; $p.vow.break; }; await Promise.anyof($p);
22:56 camelia rakudo-parrot df69aa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    Promise used at line 1â�¤Undeclared routines:â�¤    await used at line 1â�¤    start used at line 1. Did you mean 'spurt', 'sqrt', 'sort'?â�¤â�¤Â»
22:56 camelia ..rakudo-jvm df69aa: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
22:56 camelia ..rakudo-moar df69aa: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
22:56 ab5tract perl6: my $p = Promise.new; start { sleep 3; $p.vow.break; }; await Promise.anyof($p);
22:56 camelia rakudo-parrot df69aa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    Promise used at line 1â�¤Undeclared routines:â�¤    await used at line 1â�¤    start used at line 1. Did you mean 'spurt', 'sqrt', 'sort'?â�¤â�¤Â»
22:56 camelia ..rakudo-moar df69aa: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
22:56 camelia ..rakudo-jvm df69aa: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
22:56 camelia ..niecza: OUTPUT«Cannot open assembly './run/Niecza.exe': No such file or directory.␤»
23:02 tony-o this is also in S17 that i can see working in moar
23:02 tony-o r: start { sleep 5; }, :max(1);
23:02 camelia rakudo-parrot df69aa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    start used at line 1. Did you mean 'spurt', 'sqrt', 'sort'?â�¤â�¤Â»
23:02 camelia ..rakudo-jvm df69aa: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
23:02 camelia ..rakudo-moar df69aa: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'max' passed␤  in sub start at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:19449␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
23:03 tony-o r: Promise.start({ sleep 5; }, :max(1));
23:03 camelia rakudo-jvm df69aa: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
23:03 camelia ..rakudo-moar df69aa: ( no output )
23:03 camelia ..rakudo-parrot df69aa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    Promise used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:03 tony-o r: Promise.start({ sleep 5; 'sup'.say; }, :max(1));
23:03 camelia rakudo-jvm df69aa: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
23:03 camelia ..rakudo-moar df69aa: ( no output )
23:03 camelia ..rakudo-parrot df69aa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    Promise used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:04 tony-o r: await Promise.start({ sleep 2; 'sup'.say; }, :max(1));
23:04 camelia rakudo-jvm df69aa: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
23:04 camelia ..rakudo-parrot df69aa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfileâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    Promise used at line 1â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    await used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
23:04 camelia ..rakudo-moar df69aa: OUTPUT«sup␤»
23:04 tony-o guess it's just the shorthand that isn't working
23:05 timotimo tony-o: you want to use "m:" instead of "r:"
23:06 tony-o timotimo: yea i was curious if it works on the jvm or not..jvm isn't working on the bot (looks like).
23:07 tony-o timotimo: i'm trying to use as few promises to take care of this handling as possible because once i hit some unknown threshold on moar, it locks up the scheduler and it appears to not be recoverable
23:08 timotimo yeah, r-j is b0rked frustratingly often on camelia
23:08 timotimo moar's scheduler isn't smart enough yet to dispatch to other jobs whenever we start waiting for something
23:09 tony-o should i ignore high volume testing on moar for the moment?
23:09 timotimo hmm, maybe
23:10 tony-o timotimo: i'm writing a lot more tests for async http
23:11 robinsmidsrod joined #perl6
23:13 timotimo that's good! :)
23:14 timotimo i'm massively procrastinating finally writing a simple routing thingie so that i can plop it in as a middleware (and add a static file serving middleware to that)
23:19 diakopter m: say 2 ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ 2 ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ 2
23:19 camelia rakudo-moar df69aa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/ugfqdnHjIbâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/ugfqdnHjIb:1â�¤------> [32msay 2 [33mâ��[31m↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ 2 ↑↑↑↑↑↑↑ 2[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix…»
23:20 timotimo diakopter: technically speaking our ints are boundless ... but ... no! :P
23:21 diakopter well the error could at least tell me how much space and time it WOULD take to display it ;)
23:22 diakopter (not really)
23:23 tony-o timotimo: i found some problems with the way i did this in writing these tests, so the repo kinda works at this point
23:23 diakopter actually though, how would one create such an expandable infix operator
23:23 raiph joined #perl6
23:27 jerrycheung joined #perl6
23:33 chenryn joined #perl6
23:34 diakopter m: sub foo($x) { EVAL "$x "~('↑'x $x)~" $x" }; say foo(foo(foo(foo(2))));
23:34 camelia rakudo-moar df69aa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling EVAL_0â�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at EVAL_0:1â�¤------> [32m2 [33mâ��[31m↑↑ 2[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤        statement en…»
23:37 BenGoldberg m: say 2 ↑ 3;
23:37 camelia rakudo-moar df69aa: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/LPw0F51i32â�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/LPw0F51i32:1â�¤------> [32msay 2 [33mâ��[31m↑ 3;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤â€¦Â»
23:37 BenGoldberg .u ↑
23:37 yoleaux U+2191 UPWARDS ARROW [Sm] (↑)
23:38 BenGoldberg diakopter, Thinking of Knuth's up-arrow operator?
23:38 diakopter yeah http://www.mrob.com/pub/math/largenum-3.html#hyper4

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