Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-09-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:24 dalek roast: dfd7d76 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/bag.t:
00:24 dalek roast: New bag tests, fudged appropriately.
00:24 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/dfd7d76c8c
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01:08 * TimToady now in Lexington, VA
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01:09 gtodd camelia: m: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .say;
01:10 camelia gtodd: rakudo-moar 502241: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
01:11 TimToady m: say "hi"
01:11 camelia rakudo-moar 502241: OUTPUT«hi␤»
01:11 TimToady m: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .say;
01:12 camelia rakudo-moar 502241: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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01:45 BenGoldberg n: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .say;
01:45 camelia niecza : OUTPUT«Cannot open assembly './run/Niecza.exe': No such file or directory.␤»
01:45 BenGoldberg P: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .say;
01:45 camelia pugs: OUTPUT«/home/p6eval/.cabal/bin/pugs: error while loading shared libraries: libperl.so.5.14: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory␤»
01:45 BenGoldberg j: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .say;
01:45 camelia rakudo-jvm 502241: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
01:45 BenGoldberg p: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .say;
01:45 camelia rakudo-parrot 502241: OUTPUT« perl6 ␤»
01:45 TimToady hmm, why space?
01:46 BenGoldberg Well, the leading space in the output is due to the space here: / perl6/, however the trailing space is a bit odd.
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01:48 TimToady p5 would do " perl66"
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02:21 j4jackj TimToady: are there any Perl6 implementations written in Perl5?
02:23 chenryn joined #perl6
02:45 BenGoldberg j4jackj, Perlito compiles perl6 to perl5.
02:45 j4jackj k
02:46 yeahnoob Why Perl 6 is not backend on LLVM? My very old question when I first heard about Perl 6.
02:46 BenGoldberg yeahnoob, If you want to write an LLVM backend for perl6, you are free to do so.
02:50 yeahnoob For a noob, i have no such powerful knowledge and skills for now...so
02:52 bonsaikitten so start learning
03:01 tony-o p: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .print
03:02 camelia rakudo-parrot 502241: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
03:02 tony-o p: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .print;
03:02 camelia rakudo-parrot 502241: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
03:02 tony-o weird timeouts on eval bot
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03:11 yeahnoob Yes Sir. Learning on my way...
03:12 yeahnoob p: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .print;
03:12 camelia rakudo-parrot 502241: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
03:12 yeahnoob m: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .print;
03:13 camelia rakudo-moar 502241: OUTPUT« perl6 »
03:14 yeahnoob Maybe they are tweaking the Bot-server.
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03:19 kyun Well done, the rakudo star update to 2014.09
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06:19 sergot_ morning o/
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06:25 kyun Good afternoon.
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06:49 atroxaper Hello, #perl6 !
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09:06 lizmat good *, #perl6!
09:07 dalek roast: 2f5ef2a | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
09:07 dalek roast: Remove 4 classes to be removed
09:07 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2f5ef2aa78
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09:17 yeahnoob m: my $t=localtime; say "Good ",$t;
09:17 camelia rakudo-moar 502241: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/XwdjQuW54Hâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    localtime used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
09:17 denis_boyun joined #perl6
09:17 yeahnoob m: my $t=DateTime.new(now); say "Good ",$t;
09:17 camelia rakudo-moar 502241: OUTPUT«Good 2014-09-29T09:17:11Z␤»
09:17 pecastro joined #perl6
09:17 lizmat it appears $*PROGRAM_NAME is a P5ism
09:18 * lizmat thinks she's going to deprecate it
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09:23 yeahnoob m: my $t=DateTime.new(now); $t=$t.in-timezone($*TZ); say "Good Time & Time Again, ",$t;
09:23 camelia rakudo-moar 502241: OUTPUT«Good Time & Time Again, 2014-09-29T05:23:21-0400␤»
09:33 FROGGS .u arrow
09:33 yoleaux 28 Sep 2014 21:19Z <lizmat> FROGGS: seems the 5daa5de broke the parrot build
09:33 yoleaux U+02C2 MODIFIER LETTER LEFT ARROWHEAD [Sk] (˂)
09:33 yoleaux U+02C3 MODIFIER LETTER RIGHT ARROWHEAD [Sk] (˃)
09:33 yoleaux U+02C4 MODIFIER LETTER UP ARROWHEAD [Sk] (˄)
09:33 FROGGS eww
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09:39 lizmat FROGGS: yeah, that was quite a big commit, so I have not been looking at a solution yet  :-(
09:39 FROGGS no problem... I'll fix it
09:45 FROGGS lizmat: your last label Patch will break my panda :o(
09:45 FROGGS looks like it need to find a third way :/
09:46 FROGGS ahh, perhaps I already know how...
09:49 dalek specs: 51bf410 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
09:49 dalek specs: chmod/unlink() return files changed/removed
09:49 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/51bf410b68
09:51 lizmat FROGGS: the one that unbroke the JVM build ?
09:52 FROGGS lizmat: yeah
09:53 FROGGS problem seems to be that we get an IO::Path outside of the setting
09:54 lizmat that shouldn't be a problem ??
09:57 FROGGS well, you just can't p6box_s and IO::Path
09:59 lizmat hmmm/... so where does $?FILES become an IO::Path then ?
10:00 FROGGS m: say nqp::getlexdyn('$?FILES')
10:00 camelia rakudo-moar 502241: OUTPUT«/tmp/jE8B_GmN5f␤»
10:00 FROGGS m: sub foo { say nqp::getlexdyn('$?FILES') }; foo
10:00 camelia rakudo-moar 502241: OUTPUT«/tmp/lMczF189L4␤»
10:00 FROGGS hmmm, maybe in a procompiled module or so?
10:01 FROGGS because that is where it exploded... after precompiling Archive::Tar, when running its tests
10:09 lizmat hmmmm...  well, $?FILES should be precompiled and frozen
10:09 lizmat maybe the serializer / deserializer cannot handle IO::Path ?
10:10 lizmat where does that live anyway ?
10:11 FROGGS probably here:
10:11 FROGGS rakudo/src/gen/ModuleLoader.nqp:264:                my $?FILES   := %chosen<pm>;
10:12 lizmat aha, I think I know where that get's set
10:13 lizmat could you try:
10:13 lizmat -                  $candi<provides>{$module_name}<pm><file>;
10:13 lizmat +                  ~$candi<provides>{$module_name}<pm><file>;
10:13 lizmat in src/core/CompUnit.pm ?
10:14 lizmat line 100
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10:20 FROGGS yeah, will try that in a bit
10:22 FROGGS I'll fix parrot first
10:30 dalek specs: 9131eb7 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
10:30 dalek specs: Add mode parameter to mkdir()/.mkdir
10:30 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/9131eb773a
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10:58 timotimo o/
11:01 lizmat timotimo o/
11:05 timotimo meh
11:05 timotimo i wanted to play overgod (for old time's sake or something) and it segfaults at startup .. i can install the separate debuginfo package, but all it shows is "<optimized out>"
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11:08 nine timotimo: that means that the value probably is in some CPU register
11:08 brrt timotimo o/
11:12 timotimo nine: yeah, but that doesn't help me figure out how a null pointer gets its way into the src argument of some blitting function >_<
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11:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 17db5ce | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
11:54 dalek rakudo/nom: unbreak parrot build
11:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/17db5cea3f
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12:11 lizmat FROGGS: that line seems rather essential?
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12:15 timotimo is a \ at the end of a line always acceptable in the repl to give a new line of input?
12:15 timotimo as in: if i'm inside a string literal, will that work as expected? + all edge cases i may not have thought about
12:16 dalek perl6-roast-data: 076a6ed | coke++ | / (5 files):
12:16 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
12:16 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/076a6ed078
12:17 [Coke] ^^ yesterday
12:18 lizmat timotimo: I think that could only work if the REPL would always execute *all* lines entered from scratch
12:19 lizmat with perhaps $*OUT and $*ERR localized to dev/null in all but the last line
12:20 timotimo er, what?
12:21 timotimo oh, no, the repl has a little piece of code in it that'll ask for another line if the last one ended in a backslash
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12:34 dalek roast: bf164e1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
12:34 dalek roast: Argh, we need these classes (for now at least)
12:34 dalek roast:
12:34 dalek roast: This reverts commit 2f5ef2aa78e28cfaac8edb1f5d61dfb99a12c7d7.
12:34 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/bf164e16b2
12:34 timotimo m: say 1, 1, *+* ... *
12:34 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465 14930352 24157817 39088169 63245986 102334155 165580141 267914296 433494437 70140873…»
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12:46 lizmat m: sub a(:$*SPEC) { say $SPEC }; a   # hoped this would say IO::Spec::Unix
12:46 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Rz1bA_y4vBâ�¤Variable '$SPEC' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/Rz1bA_y4vB:1â�¤------> [32msub a(:$*SPEC) { say $SPEC[33mâ��[31m }; a   # hoped this would say IO::Spec:[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤    â€¦Â»
12:46 lizmat hmmm... -e discrepancy  :-)
12:47 lizmat would it make sense to have :$*SPEC be a shortcut for :SPEC($*SPEC) ?
13:05 FROGGS lizmat: sort of, it is meant to make $*STRICT available in EVALs but it does not work correctly with this line on moar either
13:05 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 2b8a039 | coke++ | log/MoarVM-version.log:
13:05 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
13:05 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/2b8a039d20
13:06 FROGGS lizmat: yes, because "SPEC" is the name # :$*SPEC be a shortcut for :SPEC($*SPEC)
13:06 jnthn m: sub a(:$foo) { say $foo }; my $*foo = 42; a(:$*foo)
13:06 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«42␤»
13:06 jnthn Already works, no? :)
13:06 FROGGS jnthn: bah, just because you did it right! :P
13:07 FROGGS m: sub a(:$foo) { say $foo }; a(:$<foo>)
13:07 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
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13:11 jnthn m: 'abc' ~~ /$<foo>=[\w+]/; sub a(:$foo) { say $foo }; a(:$<foo>)
13:11 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«「abc」␤␤»
13:11 jnthn ;)
13:12 FROGGS jnthn: btw, we could take a look at your USAGE thingy again when you've time
13:15 jnthn FROGGS: Did you manage to reproduce it at all?
13:16 FROGGS jnthn: no, that's the point :/
13:16 jnthn urgh
13:16 FROGGS I see that 'print' is pretty expensive on windows but that's kinda expected
13:16 jnthn Let me grab latest and produce another profile, then upload it, then at least we can check it's not just me misreading something...
13:17 timotimo yeah, it has to go through the spoon or what it's called
13:17 FROGGS (given the suckiness of cmd.exe)
13:17 timotimo and then through a parallel port cable
13:17 jnthn There Is No Spoon :P
13:17 timotimo what if LPT1 isn't even connected?
13:17 timotimo you can't detect that!
13:17 FROGGS well, *I* can, at least locally
13:18 FROGGS jnthn: that's my profile: http://froggs.de/perl6/rcff-windows.html
13:18 jnthn Yeah, I saw that one
13:18 jnthn oh wait, I have your other one open
13:19 FROGGS that one is the only profile on windows I've shared
13:19 jnthn yeah, it musta been a non-Windows one then
13:20 gtodd FROGGS: re: "Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 32 bytes"   I though I got that error with panda only ... but it has disappeared again mysteriously  maybe it's hardware or sunspots
13:20 jnthn Of course, it's taking ages to load, because first we need to make sure it doesn't talk about falun gong, hong kong democracy, and so forth... :/
13:21 timotimo ;(
13:21 jnthn 2 days until I have non-stupid Internet again :)
13:21 gtodd m: $_ = "python3"; tr/python3/ perl6/; .say;
13:21 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT« perl6 ␤»
13:21 FROGGS gtodd: ohh, that might be a more general issue (on your box) rather then a problem in v5's grammar
13:21 gtodd m: my $coding = "python3"; $coding.=trans(python3 => perl6); $coding.say ;
13:21 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/3zdIi4vUcIâ�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    perl6 used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
13:21 FROGGS gtodd: nice try :o)
13:22 gtodd can we use tr/// on lexicals ?
13:22 gtodd m: my $coding = "python3"; $coding.=trans("python3" =>" perl6"); $coding.say ;
13:22 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT« perl6 ␤»
13:22 FROGGS m: my $c = "python3"; $c ~~ tr/python3/ perl6/; $c.say;
13:22 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT« perl6 ␤»
13:23 timotimo m: say " perl6".chars; say "python3".chars
13:23 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«6␤7␤»
13:23 FROGGS m: my $c = "python3"; say $c ~~ tr/python3/ perl6/;
13:23 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«StrDistance.new(before => "python3", after => " perl6 ")␤»
13:23 gtodd ah ok
13:23 timotimo m: my $a = "abcdefghijklmnop"; $a ~~ tr/abcdefgh/1234/; say $a
13:23 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«12341234ijklmnop␤»
13:23 timotimo that's why it puts a space there
13:23 grondilu m: my num $ = 1.Num;  # this works
13:23 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: ( no output )
13:23 grondilu m: my num @ = 1.Num;  # this doesn't?
13:23 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Num␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/k1ZEvlSnCn:1␤␤»
13:24 gtodd m: my $coding = "python3"; $coding.= tr/python3/ perl6/ ; $coding.say ;
13:24 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/cEE7Fv0uNPâ�¤Bogus statementâ�¤at /tmp/cEE7Fv0uNP:1â�¤------> [32m"python3"; $coding.= tr/python3/ perl6/ [33mâ��[31m; $coding.say ;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        â€¦Â»
13:24 gtodd oops
13:24 gtodd ok ~~
13:25 FROGGS .= is for methods
13:25 jnthn FROGGS: Did you do 10 iterations or 5?
13:25 FROGGS jnthn: 5
13:25 jnthn FROGGS: Even if your one, 10.46% is spent in gen-usage
13:25 * grondilu thinks there is "trans" for a method version of "tr"
13:25 jnthn (in
13:26 jnthn FROGGS: Maybe not in it directly, but in things it does
13:26 timotimo gtodd: did you see what i ran up there?
13:26 FROGGS jnthn: where do I have to look?
13:26 gtodd yeah ...
13:26 timotimo :)
13:26 grondilu m: say "foo".trans: /foo/ => "bar"
13:26 camelia rakudo-moar 17db5c: OUTPUT«bar␤»
13:26 jnthn FROGGS: On routines tab on the one you just linked me, search for gen-usage
13:26 FROGGS ohh
13:26 * FROGGS facepalm
13:27 jnthn m)
13:27 FROGGS well, perhaps it makes sense to read it that way :o)
13:27 gtodd timotimo: so far I'm think p6's tr/// is smarter than perl5 tr// but you have to use ~~
13:27 timotimo if you tr without ~~, it'll just apply to $_
13:27 jnthn FROGGS: Inclusive means "time spent between entering gen-usage and leaving gen-usage, including the things it calls"
13:28 FROGGS jnthn: yeah, I understand now
13:28 gtodd I'm also thinking  p6 is like crack ....
13:28 jnthn I note that strip_path_prefi, right below it, is 10.29%
13:28 FROGGS jnthn: I'll have a look at that this evening
13:28 timotimo but crack is bad
13:28 jnthn And the call graph shows that gen-usage calls that
13:28 gtodd ok "crack" is the wrong word ....  "kale" once you start using it it's hard to not have it with every meal
13:29 jnthn FROGGS: OK, cool. So do you need me to upload my one? :)
13:29 timotimo i don't know what kale is :S
13:29 FROGGS jnthn: no, thanks :o)
13:29 jnthn timotimo: Maybe it's a word for beer in some language... :)
13:29 timotimo hah :D
13:29 gtodd it's like arugula salad .. hard to eat iceberg lettuce after that :-)
13:30 timotimo a friend let me try a "creamy root beer" thingie ...
13:30 timotimo like, imported from the americas
13:30 timotimo it tasted like mouthwater
13:30 timotimo he left it here, because he didn't want it
13:30 timotimo i don't want to finish it, either
13:30 gtodd heheh
13:31 timotimo "blue sky natural soda"
13:31 timotimo "made with real sugar"
13:31 gtodd ?
13:31 gtodd heh
13:31 timotimo "creamy root beer"
13:32 * gtodd searched for p6's tr/// docs ....
13:32 gtodd really I did
13:32 timotimo for many things there's not really docs ... but the specs are always there :\
13:33 gtodd http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/21/day-21-transliteration-and-beyond/  did not have the bit about tr/// hmm could add it there as a comment :-D
13:34 jnthn timotimo: That sounds...no like beer :P
13:34 jnthn *not
13:34 timotimo yeah, i don't consider this beer at all
13:36 gtodd would be nice to have a bot we could tell to set aside the above $X lines somewhere as possible rough docs  ....  or maybe use yoleaux .tell docmunger to write a paragraph using the above 10 lines"  ...
13:37 timotimo teh what now?
13:37 gtodd haha
13:37 FROGGS a bot taking the irc logs and stick it in the docs?
13:37 FROGGS O.o
13:38 timotimo oh?
13:38 timotimo well, that won't really give a prose-like kind of thing
13:38 gtodd heheh  not official docs ... I often find stuff in the irc logs that is helpful  ...
13:38 timotimo it should instead generate a markov chain from the lines
13:38 timotimo and generate a book and sell it on amazon based on that
13:38 gtodd hahaha
13:38 gtodd $kaching!
13:39 moritz hey, I have the data already
13:39 FROGGS let's sell moritz for $$$!! /o/
13:40 FROGGS :P
13:40 timotimo don't sell the cow if you can still milk it!
13:40 FROGGS ohh, very true
13:40 gtodd heheh ...  #perl has GumbyBrain ... who I'm sure is very wealthy :-)
13:42 gtodd I was just cutting and pasting stuff into a text file when an example explanation was helpful and memorable and using POD markup to make it "grepable"
13:43 gtodd it worked great until I lost that disk :-)
13:45 FROGGS :o)
13:45 gtodd and there's something beautiful about using bots in clouds for niceness  instead of evil
13:46 gtodd bots  have a bad rep in the "mainsteam media"  ...  :)
13:47 moritz hugme: hug mainstream
13:47 * hugme hugs mainstream
13:48 timotimo hugme: hug hug
13:48 * hugme hugs hug
13:48 timotimo hugme: hug hugs
13:48 * hugme hugs hugs
13:50 PerlJam "mainstream media" is stupid too.
13:51 PerlJam I heard the term "hackathon" in a TV show last night, but it was being used as something that "evil hackers" do
13:51 timotimo wat ... srsly?
13:51 timotimo there was this time when fox news (or something similar) reported about github
13:52 FROGGS I guess these hackers wired their own telephone line to their line-out or something...
13:52 lizmat those commie programmers!
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13:55 dalek rakudo/nom: 1f4ca04 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/CompUnit (2 files):
13:55 dalek rakudo/nom: stringify CU candidates that can become $?FILES
13:55 dalek rakudo/nom:
13:55 dalek rakudo/nom: When we let slip an IO::Path into $?FILES the Label.new code will explode. Beware.
13:55 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1f4ca0458d
13:55 FROGGS uh, lizmat++
13:57 Woodi hi today :)
13:57 raiph gtodd: vaguely similar idea: https://questhub.io/realm/perl/quest/53516384bbd0beef19000022
13:58 lizmat any Cygwin people here?  would C:\\foo be a path that you could get on Cygwin ?
13:58 FROGGS hi Woodi
13:59 lizmat I *thought* it hid all of that in a unix-like access to filesystems ?
13:59 colomon lizmat: I think it's spelled something like /cygwin/C/foo there
13:59 FROGGS lizmat: I deleted my cygwin like four hours ago :o(
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13:59 colomon sorry, /cygdrive/C
14:00 * colomon isn't sure how old the cygwin on his Windows Vista box is, though...
14:00 lizmat so a test like "my $path = IO::Path::Cygwin.new('C:foo\\\\bar\\');" is bogus
14:01 colomon well, I suppose IO::Path::Cygwin might be smart enough to translate
14:01 colomon but
14:01 colomon ls C:
14:01 lizmat it isn't
14:01 lizmat hence my question...  :-)
14:01 colomon ls: cannot access C:: No such file or directory
14:02 lizmat colomon++  thanks for the reality check
14:02 colomon lizmat: aren't you defining it right now?  :)
14:02 Woodi I'm thinking and thinking and I think that "mainstream media" don't know what 'bots' are... droids, drones, viruses @ Co, yes...  but if "gamers media" counts as mainstream then yes :)  or maybe I lack some references... or we talking about is shadow-o-bot-net ? :)
14:02 lizmat colomon: well, I'm trying to get the code to be like the spec
14:02 lizmat and suddenly tests start to fail  :-)
14:02 colomon lizmat: and you're rewriting the spec, no?  :)
14:03 lizmat well, I would say generalizing
14:03 lizmat on the outside not a lot would change
14:03 lizmat API's mostly stay the same
14:03 lizmat "foo".IO.e still works  :-)
14:03 gtodd raiph: nice :-)
14:04 lizmat even though underneath it creates an IO::Path rather than an IO::Handle
14:04 lizmat "bar".IO.lines still works, and even closes the handle  :-)
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14:30 Woodi lizmat: I think that IO::Path things are word-y, ppls probably will just want to have: open("/some/string"), etc., something that just work...
14:31 lizmat Woodi: don't despair, open() will continue to work
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14:33 Woodi lizmat: it is not despair :) just lazines, maybe not good one but kind of natural, IMO
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14:35 lizmat we'll cater for the lazy ones as well  :-)
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14:36 Woodi btw. I managed to upload redis corrections to github, hope they are "corrections" ;)  https://github.com/slunski/perl6-redis.git
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14:36 Woodi lizmat: probably I just lazy and don't know current API in spec :) I will check it before talkoing more...
14:37 hoelzro o/ perl6
14:38 lizmat hoelzro o\
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14:49 dalek rakudo/nom: a6af28f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO/Spec/ (3 files):
14:49 dalek rakudo/nom: Use "dirname" instead of "directory"
14:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a6af28f101
14:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 4191d07 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO/ (3 files):
14:49 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement IO::Spec.dirname (instead of .directory)
14:49 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:49 dalek rakudo/nom: .directory will still work, but is deprecated
14:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4191d078e0
14:50 FROGGS lizmat++
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14:51 dalek roast: a0bf974 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-io/io-spec- (3 files):
14:51 dalek roast: Bring IO::Spec tests up to spec wrt 'dirname'
14:51 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a0bf974ed7
15:02 dalek specs: c4a4fc1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
15:02 dalek specs: Some more s/directory/dirname/
15:02 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/c4a4fc1d07
15:02 dalek specs: a8dd445 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
15:02 dalek specs: Add paragraph about IO::Path subclasses
15:02 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a8dd44580d
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15:31 * gtodd is a bit slow ...
15:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 658409a | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Main.pm:
15:32 dalek rakudo/nom: optimize $?USAGE
15:32 dalek rakudo/nom:
15:32 dalek rakudo/nom: We only generate the USAGE message in case we need it, and then the new code only
15:32 dalek rakudo/nom: takes .13s where the old code took .75s (on windows)
15:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/658409a7e8
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15:35 gtodd when we do this -->  my $code = "perl5"; say $code ~~ tr/perl5/perl6/;  (i.e. the ~~ with tr/// instead of the method .trans)  is that using the "infix ~~ " ... i.e. is it the smart match in another guise ??
15:35 gtodd since smartmatch ~~ aliases stuff to $_ and checks  ACCEPT(S_) etc etc
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15:48 gtodd errm ACCEPTS($_)
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16:02 psch gtodd: saw your question in the clog.  in nom $ ~~ tr/// currently doesn't call .ACCEPTS, because StrDistance doesn't implement an ACCEPTS method yet.
16:02 psch m: StrDistance.^methods.say
16:02 camelia rakudo-moar 4191d0: OUTPUT«Bool Numeric Int <anon> <anon>␤»
16:03 psch i have opened a PR, but iirc it hasn't been discussed yet, probably because i didn't ask anyone to look at it :)
16:04 psch gtodd: basically, .ACCEPTS is for creating the boolean value that &infix:<~~> returns, afaiu.  $ ~~ s/// and $ ~~ tr/// currently are both special-cased.
16:06 psch gtodd: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/Perl6/Actions.nqp#L4925 in case you haven't found it yet.
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16:15 psch m: $_ = "abc"; say so s:g/x/u/;
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16:16 gtodd psch: thanks
16:16 camelia rakudo-moar 4191d0: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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16:21 gtodd camelia: say "hi" unless 0;  # :-D
16:22 gtodd ... camelia is cocooning again
16:25 gtodd RT #122810
16:25 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122810
16:26 gtodd that reminds me ... I opened that PR ... then wrote a test (probably wrong or unecessary) and committed it to roast somewhere
16:26 gtodd and then closed the PR
16:27 gtodd the test then disappeared from current roast or was moved/edited - it was written in a way that encouraged editing :)
16:28 gtodd I really only wrote the test because jnthn fixed the issue but said  tests are preferred for closing PRs :-|
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16:33 gtodd (and to learn a bit about the bug->PR->test workflow) ... anyway, I left the bug closed since TTTT I wasn't sure where or if it belonged  - it seemed more MoarVMish maybe I should stick a link to it in Moar's github issues
16:35 [Coke] there isn't a hard policy, but rakudo-moar bugs probably still belong in RT, but you -could- bug them in MoarVM/MoarVM on github...
16:35 [Coke] I imagine the latter as "bugs in the VM". ... of course, there is no standalone VM stuff, it's all through perl.
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17:15 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
17:15 FROGGS hi pmichaud!
17:16 tony-o FROGGS: did removing the .dylib|.so in DBIish Pg work in linux?
17:16 FROGGS tony-o: yes
17:18 vendethiel o/, #perl6
17:18 colomon \o
17:21 lizmat pmichaud o/
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17:25 timotimo o/ pmichaud
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18:17 lizmat I have a giant commit that is getting larger and larger, but which isn't spectest clean
18:18 lizmat but I'd like to get it out there to more quickly find out if I'm breaking other stuff as well
18:19 lizmat should I commit to nom or not?
18:19 lizmat putting in a branch is not really a fix either...
18:20 lizmat opinions anyone?
18:25 FROGGS branch
18:26 [Coke] pmichaud: hio.
18:29 PerlJam lizmat: if you want people to try it but are concerned about breaking stuff, a branch sounds like the right thing.  (You just have to "advertise" the branch a little bit)
18:35 dalek panda/CPAN: 407089a | (Tobias Leich)++ | ext/HTTP__UserAgent:
18:35 dalek panda/CPAN: updated HTTP::UserAgent
18:35 dalek panda/CPAN: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/407089a2f6
18:36 FROGGS lizmat: to let travis build it you would need to call it smoke-me-foobar
18:37 lizmat well, I know it builds  :-)
18:37 lizmat well, on moar  :-)
18:37 FROGGS on your box ... :o)
18:37 lizmat true
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18:37 FROGGS how big is the spectest impact? would you be able to fix All The Things in a reasonable timeframe?
18:38 lizmat matter of days max
18:38 FROGGS that really sounds like a branch would be the best
18:39 [Coke] please no one ever intentionally break spectest for days.
18:39 lizmat okokokok  :-)
18:39 [Coke] I will allow "inadvertently for one commit" but not much more. :P
18:39 * colomon has been trying to be good with his latest roast commits…
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18:47 dalek panda/CPAN: 548a938 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Fetcher.pm:
18:47 dalek panda/CPAN: use UA.get instead of getstore() for binary data
18:47 dalek panda/CPAN:
18:47 dalek panda/CPAN: getstore() is meant to work for text, so is not ideal for fetching .gz files
18:47 dalek panda/CPAN: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/548a938c29
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18:48 PerlJam why does getstore care about the disposition of the data it's downloading and writing to a file?
18:49 FROGGS that works again now: panda --cpan --github search native # https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/4e97e0d8db94df7b3713
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18:50 FROGGS PerlJam: I dunno
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18:52 FROGGS I'm going to work on `panda --cpan install NativeCall` now, which requires a working gzslurp.... we'll see
18:59 vendethiel FROGGS++ :-)
18:59 FROGGS :o)
19:00 * vendethiel made a list of everything he still wants to talk about the learnxiny, and now thinks about doing a perl6 talk about those instead
19:00 FROGGS yeah, sounds good
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19:25 gtodd FROGGS: does panda self update a la cpanm ?
19:26 gtodd I use rebootstrap.pl
19:26 gtodd but if there is a better way ...
19:27 FROGGS you can install panda via panda, yes, that should work
19:27 gtodd :)
19:28 FROGGS yeah, panda works quite well fortunately :o)
19:30 gtodd I don't see the --cpan --github switches so I should update :)
19:30 dalek rakudo/nom: fb6a7ba | usev6++ | src/core/ (3 files):
19:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Extend DISTRO and KERNEL for OpenBSD and NetBSD
19:30 dalek rakudo/nom: (and some aspects of FreeBSD)
19:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fb6a7baefe
19:30 dalek rakudo/nom: 264eafb | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/ (3 files):
19:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #314 from usev6/nom
19:30 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Extend DISTRO and KERNEL for OpenBSD and NetBSD
19:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/264eafb426
19:32 gtodd vendethiel:  for no good reason I'm trying to make the learnxiny code samples into a perl6 script I can exec to produce errm the html page ... :-P not quite literate programming yet but I'm getting there !
19:34 vendethiel gtodd: how, good luck :)
19:40 [Coke] is perl6-bench reporting on rakudo-jvm?
19:40 nine I guess we care about compatibility to Windows, don't we?
19:40 [Coke] (any slowdowns lately?)
19:40 [Coke] nine: yes.
19:40 nine darn
19:41 [Coke] (assuming you mean "run on windows")
19:41 nine So what do I do if I need unistd.h in p5helper.c to get the environ variable to pass to PERL_SYS_INIT3?
19:42 moritz nine: do you need to do that? or is it enough to call PERL_SYS_INIT without the env?
19:43 moritz also, perlembed has this example:
19:43 moritz int main(int argc, char **argv, char **env)
19:43 moritz {
19:43 moritz PERL_SYS_INIT3(&argc,&argv,&env);
19:43 nine moritz: currently I pass NULL for argv and env, but carlin++ found that this breaks on openBSD
19:44 nine Better question: is there a way to get at argc, argv and env?
19:44 moritz nine: yes, but PERL_SYS_INIT (no trailing 3) doesn't need an env
19:44 moritz also, that perlembed example suggest that you might get get env from the signature of main
19:44 FROGGS nine: look at how it is solved in MoarVM
19:44 moritz no idea how portable that is
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19:46 nine oh, I didn't know there was a PERL_SYS_INIT without the 3. perlembed doesn't mention it, but perlapi does and it has exactly the same description as the other version
19:48 moritz I left a comment on the commit in carlin's pull request
19:50 nine Seems like %ENV works just fine in P5 with PERL_SYS_INIT
19:50 moritz p5 probably knows how to access the ENV :-)
19:51 nine Also I guess it would be more safe to make argc and argv global variables. Who knows what PERL_SYS_INIT does with those pointers...
19:53 * [Coke] has an Albany.pm meeting tonight.
19:53 bowtie joined #perl6
19:54 [Coke] https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench is just source, yes? do we have pretty pictures hosted?
19:55 [Coke] japhb: is "./bench quickstart" expected to work with an $http_proxy set?
19:58 dalek panda/CPAN: 30e2a79 | (Tobias Leich)++ | ext/Archive__Tar/lib/Archive/Tar (2 files):
19:58 dalek panda/CPAN: unbreak Arhive::Tar
19:58 dalek panda/CPAN: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/30e2a79b44
19:58 dalek panda/CPAN: 0f57540 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Fetcher.pm:
19:58 dalek panda/CPAN: remove debug output
19:58 dalek panda/CPAN: review: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/0f57540396
20:00 FROGGS it almost seems as if one could install stuff from CPAN now O.o
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20:01 nine Interesting: the only platform where PERL_SYS_INIT3 actually does anything with env is OS2. All other platforms map directly to PERL_SYS_INIT (which uses argc, argv for checking for taint mode)
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20:04 [Coke] the jvm run is usually done hours ago. it's on S12.
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20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: fd041ae | Carlin++ | p5helper.c:
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: Fix segv calling Perl_sys_init3 on some platforms
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5:
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: eg. OpenBSD
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/fd041ae66f
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: 18877ee | Carlin++ | p5helper.c:
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: do not pass env parameter
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5:
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: per suggestion by moritz++
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/18877eed10
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: 37ce3ad | niner++ | p5helper.c:
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5: Merge pull request #7 from carbin/stop-segv-on-obsd
20:05 dalek Inline-Perl5:
20:06 dalek Inline-Perl5: Fix segv calling Perl_sys_init3 on some platforms
20:06 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/37ce3addd9
20:09 nine carlin: from reading the P5 source code, I'd say it's not dependend on platform but if perl is compiled with its own malloc or not. But many thanks for fixing my bug :)
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20:15 carlin nine: ah, that would explain it
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20:40 wk Hi!
20:40 wk What happened with :replace argument to the .pick?
20:41 wk .pick docs does not mention it (http://doc.perl6.org/routine/pick)
20:41 yoleaux wk: You must provide at least two options.
20:41 colomon wk: I believe that's now the .roll method
20:42 colomon m: say (1..10).pick(20)
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20:42 wk and i tried (1..6).pick(10, :replace);
20:42 camelia rakudo-moar 658409: OUTPUT«8 1 4 6 5 10 2 3 7 9␤»
20:42 colomon m: say (1..10).roll(20)
20:42 camelia rakudo-moar 658409: OUTPUT«7 2 5 5 6 5 2 5 10 8 6 9 9 7 5 7 4 2 3 9␤»
20:42 wk got just 6
20:42 wk colomon: ok, i'll look for it
20:42 colomon right, :replace is gone.
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20:43 wk colomon: did not found any indication for that, just that .grab does not have it anymore
20:44 colomon wk: where are you looking?
20:46 wk colomon: googled for "perl6 pick replace", got only results telling it should work
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20:47 bartolin speaking of .pick: The following happened on a netbsd box:
20:47 bartolin perl6-p -e 'say (1..2).roll(20)'
20:47 bartolin 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
20:47 bartolin (could be 2 2 2 ... as well)
20:48 bartolin with (1..3) it looks better:
20:48 bartolin 2 2 1 3 1 3 1 1 3 3 2 1 3 1 1 3 2 3 2 3
20:48 carlin bartolin: the BSDs have a broken rand() implementation
20:48 carlin MoarVM uses arc4random() there by default
20:48 lizmat bartolin: probably a rand() issue
20:48 carlin I guess parrot doesn't
20:48 lizmat m: $ perl6 -Mstrict -e1
20:48 lizmat ===SORRY!===
20:48 lizmat Could not find strict in any of:
20:48 colomon wk: huh, when I do that google search, the first result is a spectest which clearly indicates :replace is an error, and the third result is the actual commit to the spec that changed pick :replace to roll.
20:49 colomon the second result is an old blog post which is no longer corrent.  :(
20:49 bartolin Ah! Thanks.
20:49 camelia rakudo-moar 264eaf: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:49 colomon not sure if I meant current or correct there….
20:49 lizmat M: class A { has Str $a; $a = "" }  # segfaults for me
20:50 lizmat m: class A { has Str $a; $a = "" }
20:50 camelia rakudo-moar 264eaf: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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20:53 wk colomon: thank you for clearing things! have you thoughts, why this functionality was deprecated(moved to roll)?
20:54 wk i got the example from from the same 2009 advent calender
20:56 bartolin carlin: Do you also have an idea why "1**Inf" gives "NaN" on said netbsd box? (happens with Moar and Parrot) Could that also be a OS specific thing?
20:57 bartolin m: say 1**Inf
20:57 camelia rakudo-moar 264eaf: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:57 carlin bartolin: no idea, sorry
20:58 colomon wk: discussion is on this day, I think: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-09-15
20:58 bartolin carlin: Thanks anyway! ;-)
20:58 wk colomon: thank you
20:59 colomon wk: maybe?  That's around the time the change was made, anyway.
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21:01 carlin 1**Inf = 1 on Linux, FreeBSD and OpenBSD. NetBSD is the odd-one-out there
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21:05 hoelzro 2014.09 docker image is up on registry.hub.docker.com
21:05 wk colomon: seems right discussion
21:08 bartolin carlin: in 2013-06 someone reported a failing test for 1**Inf == 1 on OpenBSD (RT #85750). But with a current version (5.5) the test runs fine.
21:08 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=85750
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21:12 bartolin hoelzro++ (I played a tiny bit with the 2014.08 image)
21:12 colomon wk: yeah, here's where the discussion starts
21:12 colomon http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-09-15#i_2829483
21:12 hoelzro awesome =)
21:15 colomon wk: you can really see the language design process at work.  :)
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21:38 wk colomon: took about hour to find right term and minutes to implement it ;9
21:38 SamuraiJack_ joined #perl6
21:43 colomon wk: :)
21:50 * TimToady now in Reading, PA
21:52 brrt left #perl6
21:53 ab5tract TimToady: what brings you to Pennsylvania?
21:56 wk i am a bit lost in docs.perl6.org, where to look for switch (given/when) syntax, for example?
21:58 wk search does not suggest anything, and browsing did not helped too.
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22:00 ab5tract wk: i had luck with google and/or duckduckgo. that syntax has been pretty solid for a while.
22:02 SamuraiJack_ joined #perl6
22:04 ab5tract you get to do anything that the smart match operator provides for you, basically
22:05 wk ab5tract: thank you
22:05 wk actually, i had 2 goal:
22:05 wk 1. better understand docs.perl6.org
22:06 wk 2. to have sure, how to use succeed/proceed with when
22:14 japhb botsnack
22:14 japhb Ah, saw a channel highlight, thought someone had tried to reach me
22:14 * japhb scrolls back ...
22:16 TimToady ab5tract: taking my son's car to him, after he switched jobs from CA to NJ
22:21 japhb [Coke]: Yes, nqp-jvm and rakudo-jvm can be timed by perl6-bench (this is determined by entries in components.json and compilers.pl)
22:21 japhb [Coke]: However, I myself haven't been timing them recently because the brutal startup time makes *-jvm testing REALLY SLOW
22:22 japhb [Coke]: I'm not sure what you mean about the project being "just source" unless you mean "Is there an official awfy clone using perl6-bench?" in which case I'm not aware of any, though timotimo seems to be keeping his up.
22:23 timotimo oh?
22:23 timotimo what am i doing?
22:24 ab5tract TimToady: Road trip!
22:25 TimToady yup, we've been taking all the scenic routes
22:26 japhb timotimo: Keeping your perl6-bench runs posted
22:27 carlin nine: on OpenBSD a sub with an empty return; hangs. p5_av_top_index should be -1 but is 4294967295, something unsigned that should be signed?
22:28 japhb [Coke]: It looks like two https URLs slipped into components.json; I'll have to fix that.  http_proxy shouldn'e be involved at all normally.
22:29 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
22:30 ab5tract TimToady: I grew up in southeast PA, which is why I got curious.
22:31 TimToady on my 60th birthday, I hit my 50th state
22:31 TimToady obviously I'm missing ten years somewhere...
22:32 timotimo japhb: aye, i'm posting them semi-regularly
22:32 timotimo i should probably build a small perl6 script that keeps my benchmark files synced and generates a pretty index.html from it
22:37 ab5tract which state was your 50th, TimToady?
22:37 TimToady Alabama, on the Natchez Trace
22:39 j4jackj joined #perl6
22:39 TimToady hadn't been in OK, LA, MS, or AL before this trip
22:39 TimToady or AR
22:42 carlin .tell nine on OpenBSD a sub with an empty return; hangs. p5_av_top_index should return -1 with an empty return; but is returning 4294967295. Something somewhere unsigned that should be signed?
22:42 yoleaux carlin: I'll pass your message to nine.
22:43 woolfy TimToady: happy birthday, bit belated, but still, hope it was nice!
22:44 [Coke] japhb: I must use an http proxy.
22:44 [Coke] (at work)
22:45 [Coke] whether it's https or not
22:49 atroxaper joined #perl6
22:53 ab5tract TimToady: nice work! That's a lot of travel
22:53 dalek specs: bbfa780 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
22:53 dalek specs: IO::Path.absolute takes an optional base parameter
22:53 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/bbfa780876
22:54 japhb timotimo: Yes, up to date benchmark index sounds like a very good idea indeed.
22:55 japhb [Coke]: But you can use git+ssh, yes?
22:56 dalek perl6-bench: 6c0b86e | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | components.json:
22:56 dalek perl6-bench: Fix a couple repo URLs that got set to https accidentally
22:56 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/6c0b86e74f
22:57 japhb timotimo: Is there a p6weekly planned for this week?
22:58 immortal joined #perl6
22:58 japhb Yes, belated Happy Birthday, TimToady!  :-)
23:04 timotimo oh
23:05 timotimo yes, i wanted to do it. then i took a really long nap and went out with friends and forgot all about it >_<
23:05 timotimo i'll drive home soon, which will be the point when i'll be able to put a bit of work into that again
23:07 Hor|zon joined #perl6
23:09 japhb Ah, OK.  Excellent.  :-)
23:14 * lizmat goes to sleep&
23:16 [Coke] f
23:17 [Coke] ww
23:19 timotimo i haven't even started the research phase for the weekly >_<
23:19 timotimo i just wrote a bit of preface text ...
23:19 timotimo anyway, AFK
23:28 tony-o got the orm resizing columns automagically
23:28 tony-o oops
23:39 firnsy joined #perl6

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