Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-10-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:42 gtodd except ... the aliens abduct all the ways of building software: auto-%@$, CMake ,rake, scons, waf, ant, ninja   ... Inf
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01:46 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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05:06 firefish5000 m: class Person { has $.Is=$0 if "very sensable" ~~ m{(.+)}; has $.IsNot=$0 if "Insane" ~~ m{(.+)}; }; my $FireFish = Person.new(); say "I am {$FireFish.Is}";
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05:37 vendethiel o/, #perl6
05:53 ingy \/\/\o vendethiel!
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06:51 moritz \o
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06:52 _slade_ oハハ八八ノヽノヽノヽノ \ / \/ \
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07:45 dalek modules.perl6.org: 24e8143 | raydiak++ | web/index.tmpl:
07:45 dalek modules.perl6.org: Re-enable js search w/less truncation. See issue 5
07:45 dalek modules.perl6.org: (the list will still be truncated after the 9 billionth item)
07:45 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/24e81435c1
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07:51 moritz raydiak++
07:53 raydiak :) thanks...doesn't fix the dt/dd issue, but I figured it's better than a broken search box (or none at all)
07:55 nwc10 timotimo: Elizabeth has just spotted the Camelia on the APW site - "wow - that's very nice"
07:55 nwc10 argh
07:56 nwc10 TimToady: Elizabeth has just spotted the Camelia on the APW site  - "wow - that's very nice"
07:56 nwc10 timotimo: that might also be intersting to you, but it's probably more amusing to him
07:59 FROGGS nwc10: I like the shirt design very much btw :o)
08:01 nwc10 FROGGS: I don't think that the designer will be in Salzburg, but you'll probably see her friend/our contact at the same time as me, so you could pass that on directly.
08:02 FROGGS nwc10: will do that :o)
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08:12 dalek modules.perl6.org: fd86dda | moritz++ | web/lib/P6Project/Hosts/Github.pm:
08:12 dalek modules.perl6.org: Fix error reporting on older Mojolicious versions
08:12 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/fd86ddad0e
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08:16 Ven what's the last date for registering a talk to apw2014?
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08:18 moritz modules.perl6.org now all fixed, and 90% awesome
08:20 FROGGS Ven: perhaps ask nwc10 directly
08:20 Ven nwc10: ping :)
08:21 nwc10 Ven: hi. I might vanish without notice
08:21 Ven nwc10: hi. what's the last date for submitting a talk (apw2014)?
08:22 nwc10 Ven: other than lightning talks, it may well have passed. The schedule is already very full
08:22 nwc10 I have actually lost track of what the revised date was
08:23 nwc10 I'm on holiday (or is that "holiday") and I'm really not in a position to work anything out
08:23 Ven ha, because the form is still available
08:24 nwc10 if you have sufficient abstract ready that it's a copy-paste job, then you're welcome to submit a talk, but the others might have to reject it because it won't fit
08:24 nwc10 Ven: that wouldn't surprise me
08:24 Ven eh
08:24 raydiak moritz++ # un-breaking things
08:25 nwc10 Ven: I've not been looking after the site, nor dealing with the talks
08:25 moritz raydiak: I also broke it in the first place :-)
08:25 Ven nwc10: alright. Next one: do you need to submit your real name in order to do a talk?
08:26 nwc10 Ven: I don't think so. Zefram often doesn't use his real name, nor does chromatic
08:26 raydiak moritz: you wouldn't have broken it if you weren't improving it in the zeroth place :)
08:26 moritz I think of "chromatic" as chromatic's real name. It's very real to me, even it's not his legal name
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08:27 Ven Well, I guess I'll submit "Perl 6 and the other cheek"
08:31 raydiak sleep time...good morning and good night #perl6 o/
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08:36 Ven well, submitted a 20min talk, I hope it'll go in :(
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09:20 timotimo is it that x creates strings and xx creates lists because a string is one thing and a list is many things?
09:20 timotimo (very roughly)
09:21 moritz yes
09:22 timotimo cute
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11:21 dalek rakudo/nom: e4adb29 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO/Spec/Unix.pm:
11:21 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove my @ sillyness, any Iterative will do
11:21 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e4adb296ee
11:22 dalek roast: d8a8632 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-io/io-spec-unix.t:
11:22 dalek roast: Make IO::Spec::Unix.path tests more sensible
11:22 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d8a863264f
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11:28 dalek specs: b89831b | (L. Grondin)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
11:28 dalek specs: fix minor syntax error
11:28 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/b89831bcc0
11:35 dalek specs: 66edfbe | (L. Grondin)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
11:35 dalek specs: adding missing =over
11:35 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/66edfbe68a
11:40 dalek roast: fc2dbbe | usev6++ | S04-declarations/multiple.t:
11:40 dalek roast: Add ticket number RT #83430 to existing test
11:40 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fc2dbbe573
11:40 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=83430
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12:30 timotimo it's been a month since the first batch of videos of yapceu has been released; i wonder what's keeping them and if we can do anything to help?
12:30 timotimo .o( or even obtain raw videos for the talks i'm interested in :P )
12:33 dalek rakudo-star-daily: b746522 | coke++ | log/MoarVM-version.log:
12:33 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
12:33 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/b746522d8d
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12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data: c8f369f | coke++ | / (5 files):
12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/c8f369fcc6
12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data: b535377 | coke++ | bin/ (2 files):
12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data: Remove rakudo.jvm from the daily runs
12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data:
12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data: it's taking over 24 hours to run rakudo with moar,moar-jit,parrot & jvm.
12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data: Nearly all the time is spent on rakudo.jvm. - this is a performance
12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data: regression in the past 2-3 days.
12:45 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/b535377632
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12:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: 800882f | coke++ | perl6_pass_rates.csv:
12:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: annotate last 2 jvm runs.
12:46 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/800882fb86
12:50 grondilu timotimo: no P6-related videos yet indeed.  It's almost as if they were censored or something.
12:50 timotimo i find that highly unlikely
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12:51 grondilu what's the explanation then?  It's not like posting video on YouTube takes a month, is it?
12:52 timotimo could be anything, really
12:52 timotimo the person who was supposed to cut the videos may be on vacation/sick
12:52 timotimo computer dead
12:52 timotimo trouble extracting the raw video from the cameras?
12:52 timotimo backup tapes can't be located?
12:53 grondilu if there was a technical incident it would be mentioned somewhere, wouldn't it?
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12:53 jkg I tend to assume "volunteers running out of spare time"
12:54 yeahnoob where's the video?
12:55 timotimo https://www.youtube.com/user/yapceu/videos
12:55 [Coke] never assume malice where life is a probably cause.
12:55 [Coke] *probable. (arglebargle!)
12:56 yeahnoob Maybe i can Translate&Add Chinese language subtitle for it. if it's not too long.
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12:59 timotimo is someone in a yapceu channel or something and can ask what's up?
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13:02 * grondilu can tweet them
13:02 timotimo that would be interesting
13:06 grondilu not sure I still quite understand how twitter works but here is my attempt:  https://twitter.com/grondilu/status/517298929965477888
13:06 timotimo that sounds a bit more like "fuck you, give me the videos", whereas i would have suggested something more like "can we help get this out faster?"
13:08 grondilu yeah with hindsight that was not very diplomatic
13:08 timotimo they are not our enemy, using the word "diplomatic" is also undiplomatic in this situation :P
13:08 yeahnoob " 25/08/14 Lost laptop Guys, we have lost one of the conference laptops. A metallic Asus Zenbook. If anyone have found it. Please contact me."
13:08 grondilu it's a good thing I can remove tweets
13:09 yeahnoob from http://act.yapc.eu/ye2014/. Is that the lost video in the ladtop?
13:09 timotimo yeahnoob: look a line above that: NB: talks from the main room Vitosha will take a little longer, as they had a much more complicated setup. We'll post here and on twitter as soon as they're ready!
13:09 timotimo sounds like the videos wouldn't be on that laptop
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13:12 nine It's quite common for converence videos to take even a couple of months to show up online.
13:14 grondilu That's quite difficult to believe, but I guess in these matters there are factors I'm totally oblivious of.
13:14 timotimo unless you've contracted NextDayVideo
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13:20 * PerlJam wonders how complicated the setup was for Vitosha that it's taking so long ... the videos for the other rooms were up in just a couple of weeks.
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13:30 nine Volunteer organized conference: lots of work, getting more and more stressful the closer the conference is, followed by a couple of extremely intense days with even more work and stress. Then it's finally over. You need some time to relax. Then some time to follow up on lots of stuff you pushed out because you were busy with the conference. Good that the conference is over. Oh I forgot, there's some videos to upload. Not much motivation because there's no deadlin
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13:33 nine Also the complicated setup could be that video and audio were not recorded on the same device. So they'll have to cut and sync them again. Tedious work.
13:36 PerlJam aye.
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13:54 gtodd nine: hmm if only ACT included a builtin perl/jscript based video web app that could grab footage from laptop onboard cams .. :-)
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13:57 moritz that would be aweful quality
13:58 gtodd heh
13:59 nine Better wait for a few months than hardly understanding a word due to low audio quality ;)
14:00 gtodd hehe yeah but in those scifi futures in the movies  automagically streaming recording, editing, subtitlling, translating and mixing randomly errm "supplied" video streams is trivial ....
14:00 gtodd because in the future they have p6 :-)
14:04 moritz I'm mostly amazed that in scifi movies, they can immediately decode any incoming video stream
14:04 nine moritz: they obviously just use mplayer
14:04 moritz no missing codecs or unknown streaming formats etc.
14:04 moritz nine: :-)
14:08 gtodd nine: :-D
14:09 gtodd in the future you never have upgrade "Adobe Flash Player"
14:09 gtodd (which always makes me think "Adobe bought Flash? Oh yeah ...")
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14:47 gtodd camelia: m: say "jubilation";
14:47 camelia gtodd: rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«jubilation␤»
14:47 gtodd speedy
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15:32 japhb botsnack
15:32 yoleaux 30 Sep 2014 19:08Z <timotimo> japhb: the only relevant thing i see is --skip-incomplete, but it doesn't change anything :(
15:33 japhb timotimo: OK, back.  So ... are you running `bench compare` or `bench history`?
15:33 japhb timotimo: Also, pretty please p6weekly?  It's may main source of #perl6 goings on these days.  :-)
15:33 japhb *my
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16:47 timotimo japhb: this was bench history
16:47 timotimo also ... oh yeah the weekly :S
16:49 gtodd heh
16:50 timotimo my energy levels seem to be far from over 9000 these days
16:50 gtodd could change the name to p6timely
16:51 gtodd and or weekly could be read as a range ...
16:51 gtodd 38 .. 41
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16:57 dalek Perlito: b0e7ab7 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | Makefile:
16:57 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - use 'nodejs' in Makefile
16:57 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/b0e7ab71f4
17:01 dalek Perlito: 6f48b7a | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
17:01 dalek Perlito: Perlito5 - fix associativity of && and ||
17:01 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/Perlito/commit/6f48b7a3c7
17:02 grondilu m: multi f($a, $b where $a|$b == 0) { 0 }; multi f($a, $b where $a == $b) { "==" }; say f(0, 0); # can I rely on this behavior? (higher priority for junctions or something?
17:02 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«0␤»
17:02 timotimo that junction isn't visible to the multi dispatch
17:02 timotimo it's part of an opaque "where block" type of thing
17:03 * grondilu doesn't understand
17:04 timotimo the multiple dispatch code doesn't see a difference between the $a|$b == 0 and the $a == $b things
17:04 grondilu then why does he pick one?
17:04 vendethiel first one?
17:04 vendethiel tries to match it, it does, yay
17:05 grondilu I would have expected an "ambiguous" error or something
17:05 vendethiel it's not ambigous
17:05 vendethiel ambiguous*. Not really.
17:05 vendethiel It's very useful to have "cascading matches"
17:06 grondilu m: multi f($ where * %% 2) { 2 }; multi f($a where * %% 3) { 3 }; say f(6);  # indeed it picks the first one
17:06 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«2␤»
17:07 grondilu I don't quite understand how I managed to get an "ambiguous call" error once.  (in a very different code, though)
17:07 * grondilu doesn't remember the exact phrasing of the error
17:08 * grondilu looks in rakudo's code
17:08 * grondilu finds X::Multi::Ambiguous
17:09 * grondilu then wonders when exactly X::Multi::Ambiguous is raised
17:09 timotimo m: multi f(Int $a, Cool $b) { 1 }; multi f (Cool $a, Int $b) { 2 }; f(1, 1);
17:09 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«Ambiguous call to 'f'; these signatures all match:␤:(Int $a, Cool $b)␤:(Cool $a, Int $b)␤  in sub f at /tmp/1MmXiAF4nW:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/1MmXiAF4nW:1␤␤»
17:09 grondilu ok
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17:33 grondilu m: grep { ($_ == 5) ff ($_ == 7) }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5;  # is there a more concise way to write this?
17:33 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: ( no output )
17:33 grondilu m: say grep { ($_ == 5) ff ($_ == 7) }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5;  # is there a more concise way to write this?
17:33 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«5 2 7 5␤»
17:34 timotimo m: say grep { 5 ff 7 }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5
17:34 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«3 4 5 2 7 9 5␤»
17:34 timotimo ah, not quite
17:35 timotimo m: say grep { $_ ~~ (5 ff 7) }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5
17:35 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«␤»
17:35 timotimo also not quite that
17:35 timotimo how do i ff.
17:35 grondilu m: say grep { /5/ ff /7/ }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5
17:35 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«5 2 7 5␤»
17:35 grondilu ^this would work but I'd like to keep it numeric
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17:40 dalek perl6.org: ab6916b | raydiak++ | source/compilers/index.html:
17:40 dalek perl6.org: Un-break box styling on the Compilers page
17:40 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/ab6916bdef
17:40 timotimo yay
17:41 timotimo spider-mario: do you have time to build a rakudo-star 2014.09 package on aur soon?
17:42 raydiak o/ afternoon all
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17:45 timotimo how are you doing, raydiak? :)
17:45 spider-mario oh, sorry, I was going to but I forgot
17:45 spider-mario (school, etc.)
17:46 spider-mario thanks for reminding me
17:46 timotimo that's all right :)
17:46 timotimo it's just i talked about perl6 with an arch user yesterday
17:46 timotimo so i noticed the version is behind a month
17:46 timotimo which is pretty fantastic compared to some other packagings we've had in the past
17:47 spider-mario I also provide a binary repo, but I’m not sure many people know about it
17:47 spider-mario it has little visibility
17:48 spider-mario https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Unofficial_user_repositories#rakudo
17:48 timotimo that looks pretty hidden, aye
17:49 raydiak timotimo: eh, this is not a good year for me so far...but un-breaking things is theraputic :)  how are you?
17:50 timotimo i'm okay. currently in a writer's block / low energy mode kind of phase :\
17:51 raydiak do season changes do that to you?
17:51 timotimo i'm not sure
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17:52 timotimo i don't remember such a phase from last year
17:52 xfix Hello.
17:52 raydiak o/ xfix
17:52 timotimo ohai xfix!
17:53 dalek perl6.org: d2b09dd | (Konrad Borowski)++ | README.md:
17:53 dalek perl6.org: Testing site under IE6 and IE7 is unnecessary.
17:53 dalek perl6.org:
17:53 dalek perl6.org: Who uses that, anyway? XP is not supported anymore, anyway.
17:53 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/d2b09dde7c
17:55 xfix How is Perl 6 going? The Blogs link on Perl 6 page is dead.
17:55 timotimo ah, yes, planetaria :(
17:55 timotimo planetaria kinda died
17:55 xfix I see.
17:56 timotimo http://pl6anet.org/
17:56 timotimo when did you last check in?
17:56 xfix Long time ago.
17:56 xfix Perhaps a few months before.
17:56 timotimo so you missed moarvm getting a jit?
17:56 xfix No.
17:56 xfix I come here very rarely, however.
17:56 timotimo OK
17:56 jnthn grondilu: "where" clauses in multi-dispatch work like smart-match (they actually do .ACCEPTS on the thing you supply, even), meaning whichever matches first wins. I did try and get it to be ambiguous instead, but TimToady won that one, and these days I think it was probably the right call.
17:56 xfix timotimo: Do you think perl6.org should be changed to include pl6anet instead?
17:57 timotimo did you notice Inline::Perl5 getting up?
17:57 xfix Yes.
17:57 * jnthn made it home
17:57 jnthn And oh wow...it's SO quiet.
17:57 timotimo hey jnthn!
17:57 timotimo glad to see you :)
17:57 jnthn Almost unnervingly quiet.
17:57 jnthn :)
17:58 * jnthn notes he has been awake > 20 hours by now, so should not be asked anything important this evening ;)
17:58 timotimo is P == NP?
17:58 jnthn I did read lots of papers on the plane, and get some decent thinking/design time, though :)
17:58 timotimo oh awesome
17:58 timotimo i guess it was a high percentage of escape analysis related stuff?
17:59 xfix timotimo: That still wasn't solved (unless Perl 6 solved it while I was away) :-).
17:59 jnthn timotimo: Yes, if the constant factors are infinite... :P
17:59 vendethiel xfix: xp is actually still supported ;-)
17:59 timotimo xfix: what is "that"?
17:59 xfix Yeah, I know, this Microsoft update for security issue.
17:59 xfix timotimo: P == NP.
18:00 xfix However, moritz pushed the version to care about from IE6 to IE8, but didn't update the IE5.5 below.
18:00 jnthn timotimo: No, though masak and I did a couple of esc patches at BJ airport today...will push them from my laptop later...or tomorrow...
18:01 timotimo oh, cool :)
18:01 xfix And to be honest, I don't think this site works under IE6 anyway. Not that it has to. If somebody still uses IE6, the chance that this someone is interested in Perl 6 is close to 0 (if you still keep this old program...).
18:01 jnthn timotimo: Was more pondering native arrays, and parametricity in general...
18:01 timotimo that sounds great
18:01 jnthn Well, I might have come up with something that solves a bunch of problems at once... :) We'll see. I'll need a day or two to get it down coherently. :)
18:02 raydiak is the moar jit enabled by default yet?
18:02 nine jnthn: and probably a night or two to recover ;)
18:02 timotimo raydiak: we want that, but i don't know if anyone patched it yet
18:04 raydiak so it's pretty much stable?
18:05 timotimo we hope so :)
18:05 timotimo worst case we turn the default around before the next release
18:05 timotimo we want to at least get it tested more heavily from now on
18:05 nine Seems like parsing an 11000 lines file with a grammar is a bit too ambitious
18:06 jnthn nine: We parse a 20,000+ line one every single Rakudo build...
18:06 timotimo did you see how big the core setting is? we parse that in 25 seconds on moar nowadays
18:06 timotimo however, that's with a grammar built in nqp
18:06 raydiak cool, thanks for the info timotimo++
18:06 timotimo and action methods in nqp
18:06 timotimo which is known to be faster than perl6 in many cases
18:06 vendethiel .oO( nqp-ing is overrated )
18:06 jnthn True, there's still some gap to close...
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18:07 jnthn On JIT by default, I think I said I was fine wiht it, somebody could patch it, or I'd do it once I was back in action :)
18:07 timotimo https://gist.github.com/timo/fa6d113e897c9f1e1905 - does this seem sane?
18:09 xfix My personal opinion is that P == NP, however, you need infinite-length data structures to actually solve NP problems in P time. Not that this is useful in practice, however.
18:10 nine 7 minutes and 2.6 GiB RAM and still running. Is there anything obvious to keep in mind/avoid when writing such a grammar?
18:10 moritz nine: don't use left-recursion
18:10 timotimo do you have only a grammar or are you also building stuff with your actions?
18:11 moritz nine: also, don't quantify a rule that might match zero characters
18:11 timotimo (like <ws>)
18:11 nine timotimo: no actions yet
18:12 timotimo hm, interesting
18:12 xfix / ''* / # will always cause an infinite loop with current implementations (in future, Perl 6 implementation may notice this, but don't expect more than exception)
18:12 timotimo can you get a shorter input file and run a --profile with your moarvm?
18:12 ghostlines joined #perl6
18:14 timotimo also, putting some debug say statements at the end of some complex rules or something ...
18:14 timotimo or maybe you're trying to print the result of the matching, which may take a loooong time trying to concatenate lots of strings ...
18:15 xfix I think that Rakudo debugger supports regexes.
18:15 jnthn timotimo: Yes, though it's more about whether to build the JIT than enable/disable
18:15 nine oh indeed
18:15 nine I am printing the results
18:16 timotimo jnthn: oh?
18:16 jnthn --no-jit would match better with existing options we have
18:16 jnthn timotimo: You can disable it with MVM_JIT_DISABLE even if it's built
18:16 timotimo oh
18:16 timotimo well, i can rename them
18:16 jnthn timotimo: The command line flag means "don't even try building it"
18:17 timotimo but the change makes the previous behavior of --enable-jit the default
18:17 jnthn --no-jit works for me
18:17 jnthn Right, agree it does the right thing
18:17 timotimo or --without-jit
18:17 jnthn But no other option we have is called --without
18:17 jnthn We should at least pretend to believe in consistency... :)
18:17 timotimo OK
18:18 timotimo i must be AFK soon, so not sure if i'll fix up the patch soon
18:18 * jnthn should go buy some food :)
18:18 jnthn np
18:18 timotimo and i still have to write the weekly ...
18:18 timotimo bon appetit :)
18:18 jnthn I'll probably eat something, write a "yes I got home safely don't worry about me" mail, and sleep... :)
18:19 jnthn bbl, or bbt... :)
18:20 nbrown_ joined #perl6
18:23 xfix On sidenote, how fast Perl 6 boot time is now (on MoarVM, let's say)?
18:23 xfix Is it faster than Perl 5 with Moose?
18:24 brrt joined #perl6
18:24 grondilu it was said to be so indeed
18:24 timotimo 15% less time than perl5 with moose
18:24 xfix Sounds great.
18:24 xfix Last time I was here, it was slower than Moose.
18:24 rubio_terra joined #perl6
18:25 PerlJam Though they're both moving targets as Moose gets improved too
18:25 xfix Moose was there for a while, it doesn't change that much, does it?
18:26 psch joined #perl6
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18:27 psch hi #perl6
18:27 xfix Hi, psch.
18:27 psch tr/// adverbs are confusing
18:27 psch (also i was apparently too slow to quit irssi and stick it into a screen)
18:27 bloomberg timotimo: yeah, the weekly. I've been waiting for that
18:27 psch Str.trans adverb are similarly confusing, of course
18:28 psch especially as neither 1) are implemented or 2) specced
18:28 xfix Well, tr///  works like tr in UNIX shell (and y/// in sed, of course).
18:28 psch xfix: neither of those have :squash or :complement, afaik
18:28 PerlJam xfix: I dunno ... ether did a Moose release 5 days ago.
18:28 psch i guess i'll spec them according to what i think the spectest means they mean
18:29 xfix Oh right. Well, I personally don't use those flags.
18:29 pmqs joined #perl6
18:29 psch although short forms should probably not be confuseable with other short forms for s///
18:29 xfix (they exist for compatibility with Perl 5, I believe)
18:30 xfix http://perldoc.perl.org/perlop.html#tr/SEARCHLIST/REPLACEMENTLIST/cdsr
18:30 xfix Perl 5 has documentation for these, but it's rather confusing.
18:30 PerlJam what's confusing about it?  :)
18:31 psch xfix: thanks, i hadn't looked there.  i guess i don't need to spec them, iff our spec still is "if it's not described, it's as it is in p5"
18:31 xfix The behavior of /c, /s, and /d.
18:31 psch where the last not-quoted 'is' is "behaves as", or some such :)
18:33 xfix I can see how tr may provide performance enhancements in rare situations, but that doesn't change that its behaviour is rather strange, especially with options.
18:33 flussence for the sake of people's sanity, the spec should probably specify "same as p5" means v5.8.8 (if it doesn't already)
18:34 PerlJam xfix: How is its behavior strange?  It's always seemed straight-forward to me.
18:34 xfix I just don't get how it works. And why actually use those options.
18:35 xfix Sure, you can write tr/a-zA-Z/ /cs. But so you can write s/[^a-zA-Z]+/ /g, which is more readable in my opinion (but to be honest, you should use Unicode letters meta character).
18:36 dalek perl6-roast-data: 07d545b | coke++ | / (4 files):
18:36 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
18:36 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/07d545b38a
18:36 [Coke] ^^ no jvm runs because too slow.
18:37 xenoterracide joined #perl6
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18:37 PerlJam xfix: sounds like you're saying, because this more powerful thing exists that can do the same job, we don't need the special-purpose tool.
18:38 [Coke] Please let me know if moar-jit becomes the default.
18:39 moritz [Coke]: jnthn++ plans to make it the default, if nobody objects
18:39 xfix I just think that tr/// looks like an old feature that maps just exists here to make moving from sed to Perl easier.
18:39 [Coke] I assume that some platforms JIT will not occur, so I'll still need to test the non jit version with an env. variable...
18:39 xfix that just exists here*
18:39 PerlJam moar-jit default +1
18:40 PerlJam xfix: maybe I've just got a soft spot for tr/// since I've used it so long  :)
18:40 xfix That makes sense.
18:41 [Coke] does anyone have bench runs with recent commits of rakudo.jvm ?
18:41 xfix I just don't see how it's useful, unless you do something really special. I cannot think of examples that wouldn't be contrived, however.
18:41 [Coke] btw, rakudo.moar & parrot all test clean.
18:42 moritz [Coke]: fwiw I'm installing the oracle java 8 package right now
18:43 PerlJam xfix: flip side ... I just don't see why I should fire up the regex engine just to do some simple character replacements.  :)
18:43 xfix That makes sense.
18:44 xfix But well, I personally don't care about micro-optimisation.
18:44 ghostlines joined #perl6
18:44 PerlJam xfix: sometimes it's about optimization, but often it's also about saying what you mean.
18:44 vendethiel a.replace(from.split X=> to.split) :D
18:44 xfix One of contrived examples is tr/234/122/s which replaces all instances of 2 with 1, and all instances of 3 and 4 with 2 while squashing replacements.
18:46 xfix I also don't really like thinking about characters. Usually a single character in a string doesn't matter. Entire strings are manipulated. substr is very rare.
18:48 * brrt wonders if we're going to see a new flurry of JIT bugs if it will become default
18:49 timotimo m: token word { \w+ }; rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \. }; if "hey, there\n" ~~ / <phrase> \n / { say "yay" }
18:49 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my token word'?)␤Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my rule phrase'?)␤No such method 'phrase' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤  in method ACCEPTS a…»
18:50 vendethiel brrt: computers might break down,yes
18:50 timotimo m: my token word { \w+ }; my rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \. }; if "hey, there\n" ~~ / <phrase> \n / { say "yay" }
18:50 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: ( no output )
18:50 timotimo m: my token word { \w+ }; my rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \. }; if "hey, there.\n" ~~ / <phrase> \n / { say "yay" }
18:50 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: ( no output )
18:51 vendethiel .oO( that's why we need continuations : ATNs ! )
18:52 Hor|zon joined #perl6
18:53 timotimo what are ATNs?
18:53 timotimo also, who knows what's wrong with my matching up there?
18:54 timotimo it seems to match fine up until the . and then maybe gets confused by the \n?
18:54 vendethiel timotimo: augmented transition network
18:55 timotimo m: my token word { \w+ }; my rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \. }; if "hey, there." ~~ / <phrase> / { say "yay" }
18:55 vendethiel (tended to be used for sentence parsing)
18:55 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«yay␤»
18:55 vendethiel \n is "n"?
18:55 vendethiel :P
18:55 xenoterracide joined #perl6
18:55 vendethiel (in the regexp, that is.)
18:56 timotimo i don't think so :S
18:56 timotimo m: say "\n" ~~ / \n /
18:56 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«「␤」␤␤»
18:56 vendethiel fair enough
18:56 timotimo m: say "hello\n" ~~ / \w+ \n /
18:56 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«「hello␤」␤␤»
18:56 timotimo m: say "hello.\n" ~~ / \w+ \. \n /
18:56 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«「hello.␤」␤␤»
18:59 grondilu good to know :  using a double entry cache is much slower than concatenating the keys:
18:59 grondilu (my %){rand}{rand} = rand for ^100_000;  # ~ 22s on my machine
19:00 grondilu (my %){rand ~ "|" ~ rand} = rand for ^100_000;  # less than 10s
19:00 moritz thie first allocates 100k hashes more
19:00 moritz *the
19:00 raydiak timotimo: the trailing space in the phrase rule is gobbling up the \n, so the \n in the final regex doesn't have anything to match
19:01 ecocode joined #perl6
19:01 raydiak m: my token word { \w+ }; my rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \.}; if "hey, there.\n" ~~ / <phrase> \n / { say "yay" }
19:01 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«yay␤»
19:01 timotimo ooooh
19:01 timotimo of course
19:01 timotimo sigspace bites many people often, i believe ...
19:02 vendethiel :)
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19:05 pmqs Quick question when someone has a moment - I'm running R* 2014.09. When I installed Compress::Zlib::Raw using ufo I ended up with a Raw.pm6 and a Raw.moarvm file under the site/lib tree. If I install the same module via panda I get Raw.pm6 and Raw.pm6.moarvm. The latter is more consistent with the naming of all the other modules that came with R*.  Is this a bug in ufo?
19:07 moritz pmqs: yes, ufo is outdated
19:07 moritz pmqs: (it used to be Raw.moarvm)
19:08 xenoterracide joined #perl6
19:08 pmqs is there an alternative?
19:09 nine Indeed now that I fixed a bug in my grammar it finishes in a mere 3 seconds :)
19:10 [Coke] panda
19:10 [Coke] Which I think is in the docs?
19:10 [Coke] (which you already mentioned)
19:10 pmqs can panda install a module that's been downloaded?
19:11 PerlJam pmqs: I use "panda install ." in git clones all the time.
19:11 nine pmqs: AFAIK yes
19:11 fhelmberger joined #perl6
19:11 pmqs ok - I'll checkout the panda docs - must have missed that
19:13 [Coke] doesn't look like it's in panda --help
19:13 [Coke] https://github.com/tadzik/panda mentions it at the end of the README.
19:13 pmqs ok - see it now
19:14 xabbu42 joined #perl6
19:14 pmqs thanks folks
19:14 timotimo hm, the documentation still refers to Pies, Pls and ufobuilder; are those actually still there at all?
19:15 xenoterracide joined #perl6
19:17 xenoterracide joined #perl6
19:18 ecocode perl devroom @ Fosdem 2015 has been accepted
19:18 ecocode (for info)
19:18 vendethiel nice :)
19:18 pmqs timotimo: I ended up trying ufo because the README for a module said that was how to do an install.  Also it was in the modules list at modules.perl6.org
19:19 timotimo thereis apparently much chaos in our presentation; someone™ should update ufo quickly
19:21 nbrown_ joined #perl6
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19:24 ecocode devroom will be on saturday 31 January 2015. Reserve the date and send proposals (probably best to Wendy or Claudio)! I hope there will be lots of perl6 talks :)
19:24 jdv79 sorry.  i lost it.  where's the new planet?
19:27 * masak is back in .se
19:27 masak hi, #perl6
19:27 * masak sleeps, hard
19:27 xenoterracide joined #perl6
19:27 timotimo http://pl6anet.org/ ← jdv79
19:28 * timotimo AFK
19:30 prevost joined #perl6
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19:41 jdv79 i was trying p6lanet...  thanks timotimo!
19:42 lizmat [Coke]: will run a jvm spectest here in a minute, see if it's a lot slower than before or not
19:42 lizmat last one I did: Files=916, Tests=33552, 2428 wallclock secs ( 5.65 usr  2.11 sys + 22.92 cusr  4.81 csys = 35.49 CPU)
19:42 lizmat clearly the CPU usage is incorrect
19:45 Psyche^_ joined #perl6
19:49 spider-mario my newly built rakudo 2014.09 on parrot 6.8 hangs
19:49 spider-mario the repl doesn’t start
19:49 spider-mario (neither does nqp-p)
19:49 spider-mario no such problem with the moarvm build
19:49 bartolin m: my $a is readonly = 5; ## should not compile, RT 65900
19:49 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/UWPX1K_Q3tâ�¤Can't use unknown trait 'is readonly' in a variable declaration.â�¤at /tmp/UWPX1K_Q3t:1â�¤------> [32mmy $a is readonly [33mâ��[31m= 5; ## should not compile, RT 65900[0mâ�¤    expe…»
19:49 bartolin m: my ($a is readonly) = 5; ## shouldn't that fail the same way?
19:49 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: ( no output )
19:50 bartolin m: my ($a is readonly) = 5; say $a; ## shouldn't that fail the same way?
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«5␤»
19:50 timotimo jdv79: yeah, i'm not sure what the person getting that domain was thinking ... maybe because of .pl6?
19:51 spider-mario oh, it doesn’t exactly hang
19:51 spider-mario it doesn’t print the '> ' prompt, and cannot run anything
19:52 spider-mario any instruction results in:
19:52 spider-mario seek failed: -1
19:52 spider-mario current instr.: '' pc 26739 (gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.pir:10264) (gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1084)
19:52 spider-mario (several lines…)
19:52 spider-mario called from Sub '' pc 1222 (src/gen/perl6.pir:438) (gen/parrot/main.nqp:55)
19:53 kjs_ joined #perl6
19:53 spider-mario it happens both with a “plain” rakudo and with rakudo star
19:53 spider-mario but only with the parrot backend in both cases
19:54 xenoterracide joined #perl6
19:57 lizmat spider-mario: what OS ?
19:57 spider-mario arch linux
19:58 spider-mario “This is nqp version 2014.09 built on parrot 6.8.0 revision 0”
19:58 rurban joined #perl6
19:58 lizmat actually, I see similar REPL breakage with HEAD
19:58 lizmat > my $a = 42; say $a
19:58 lizmat Null PMC access in get_string()
19:59 lizmat seems REPL specific: $ perl6-p -e 'my $a = 42; say $a'
19:59 lizmat 42
19:59 vendethiel I've seen this error for the longest time, actually
19:59 vendethiel but only on error (and on parrot, ofc)
20:00 lizmat I guess we don't have tests for the REPL
20:00 spider-mario running scripts non-interactively does appear to work
20:00 spider-mario only the repl is broke
20:00 spider-mario n
20:00 lizmat $ echo 'my $a = 42; say $a' | perl6-p
20:00 lizmat seek failed: -1
20:00 spider-mario yeah, exactly that
20:00 Ven joined #perl6
20:01 lizmat $ echo 'my $a = 42; say $a' | perl6-m
20:01 lizmat 42
20:01 lizmat moar seems fine
20:01 spider-mario I was wondering if I built it wrong or something. :p
20:01 lizmat I think it's time for a rakudobug
20:02 lizmat spider-mario: could you send an email to rakudobug@perl.org with a description of the problem?
20:03 lizmat (like copying the above IRC dialog)
20:07 bartolin even this fails: $ echo | ./perl6-p
20:07 bartolin seek failed: -1
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20:18 spider-mario RT #122879
20:18 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122879
20:19 lizmat spider-mario++
20:19 lizmat p: my $a = nqp::getstdin(); say $a
20:19 camelia rakudo-parrot e4adb2: OUTPUT«(signal )»
20:19 lizmat m: my $a = nqp::getstdin(); say $a
20:19 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'gist': no method cache and no .^find_method␤  in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:15500␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/earoTv2R3O:1␤␤»
20:20 lizmat feels to me that nqp::getstdin() on parrot is borked
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20:39 lizmat [Coke]: result of my jvm spectest: Files=916, Tests=33566, 2367 wallclock secs ( 5.63 usr  2.29 sys + 22.64 cusr  4.69 csys = 35.25 CPU)
20:40 lizmat which appears to be *faster* than before, but that could well be noise
20:40 lizmat so I would conclude that roast slowness you experience is due to different underlying java version
20:41 timotimo YES
20:41 timotimo three screens :D
20:41 lizmat mine is: java version "1.7.0_45"
20:41 lizmat Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_45-b18)
20:41 lizmat Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 24.45-b08, mixed mode)
20:42 zeropool joined #perl6
20:43 dalek specs: e83a759 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
20:43 dalek specs: Remove SEQ() fossil
20:43 dalek specs:
20:43 dalek specs: This appears to be an implementation specific rakudo thing nowadays
20:43 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/e83a759a09
20:44 timotimo i should work at this place more often :3
20:44 ecocode joined #perl6
20:45 * lizmat wonders what this place is...
20:45 timotimo my local hackspace :)
20:46 lizmat aha!
20:51 araujo joined #perl6
20:51 araujo joined #perl6
20:52 lizmat S02:2690 :     ($a, $, $c) = 1..3;  will result in the message, "Anonymous variable requires declarator".
20:52 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_2690
20:53 lizmat it was my impression that we want that to be silent (as it actually is at the moment)
20:53 lizmat m: my $a; my $c; ($a, $, $c) = (1,3,42); say $a; say $c
20:53 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«1␤42␤»
21:03 dalek specs: aadf058 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
21:03 dalek specs: Make anonymous variables silent in all contexts
21:03 dalek specs:
21:03 dalek specs: If you're actually specifying something like ($a, $, $b) in your code, you
21:03 dalek specs: expect the 2nd value to drop on the floor.  So why warn about that at all?
21:03 dalek specs: Assuming that's what "will result in the message:" means.
21:03 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/aadf058990
21:03 timotimo damn, soon i'll want two 1920x1080 screens at home, too :(
21:06 dalek roast: b93b787 | usev6++ | S02-types/type.t:
21:06 dalek roast: Add test for RT #93982
21:06 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b93b78792b
21:06 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=93982
21:06 * lizmat is waiting for the 4K iMac  :-)
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21:11 carlin timotimo: I left a comment on your gist from earlier
21:12 timotimo are you interested in finishing it? :D
21:13 timotimo i don't know about this getopt::long thingie
21:15 lizmat S02:2886: feels like a fossil: "To bind global variables into a lexical scope, predeclare them with C<use>: use PROCESS <$IN $OUT>;"
21:15 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_2886
21:16 lizmat feels strange that you would 'use' for that, unless we should interprete any pseudo-package name in a 'use' statement ?
21:18 [Coke] lizmat++ thanks
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21:25 carlin timotimo: https://gist.github.com/carbin/b342ece3b357a63066f2
21:26 timotimo feel free to pullrequest moarvm/moarvm?
21:32 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
21:34 carlin done
21:36 timotimo thank you :)
21:38 colomon joined #perl6
21:38 timotimo https://travis-ci.org/MoarVM/MoarVM/jobs/36815437#L120 - can we make this prettier?
21:38 timotimo maybe put it all the way to the bottom directly above "Configuration SUCCESS."?
21:40 FROGGS joined #perl6
21:48 carlin sure can
21:49 timotimo cool :)
21:49 kjs_ joined #perl6
21:51 carlin https://travis-ci.org/MoarVM/MoarVM/jobs/36816568#L151
21:51 timotimo looks like i'll merge this :)
21:52 timotimo huh, clang is apparently much slower at this ?!
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21:53 Mouq lizmat: I wouldn't consider SEQ() a fossil; it was TimToady's replacement for the old semantics of `( foo() ; bar() )` since it now produces an LoL
21:53 dalek specs: f11c62c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
21:53 dalek specs: Add inner link for Adverbial Pair forms
21:53 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/f11c62c816
21:53 lizmat well, it was the *only* mention in the spec
21:54 timotimo wow, so many warnings from clang
21:54 lizmat so if it is not a fossil, then it needs elaboration :-)
21:54 timotimo const char * and unsigned char * ...
21:54 Mouq lizmat: Very true :)
21:54 lizmat timotimo: yes, from day 1
21:54 carlin it takes a long time to print all those warnings
21:54 Mouq lizmat: I don't know if TimToady was still looking for a better solution or if that's what has been decided on
21:54 * lizmat doesn't either
21:55 lizmat I hope TimToady will take the nudge  :-)
21:55 Mouq c'ya round #perl6
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21:56 lizmat timotimo: shall I bump revisions ?  and adapt the README ?
21:56 carlin someone who knows how the travis thingys work should add a --no-jit build
21:56 timotimo FROGGS would know, as he made that stuff
21:57 timotimo lizmat: i think that'd be a good idea
21:57 lizmat timotimo: will do
22:01 dalek nqp: f4a568d | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
22:01 dalek nqp: Bump MOAR_REVISION for default JIT build
22:01 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f4a568d40a
22:02 psch t/spec/S05-transliteration/trans.rakudo.moar (Wstat: 0 Tests: 60 Failed: 0) TODO passed:   28, 32, 36-37
22:02 psch :squash wasn't that hard \o/
22:02 psch nor was :delete
22:03 psch i don't get enough of the inner class LSM for :complement, i think
22:04 psch and with that g'night, #perl6 \o
22:04 lizmat good night, psch
22:06 timotimo gnite psch!
22:06 timotimo thank you for your work! :)
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 89abcf2 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (2 files):
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Jit is now default for moar builds
22:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/89abcf21d6
22:13 timotimo i believe rakudo's and nqp's configure.pl may need adjusting for the jit yes/no as well?
22:17 carlin wouldn't --moar-option=--no-jit suffice?
22:19 timotimo oh
22:19 timotimo of course
22:19 timotimo good catch
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22:31 lizmat m: say :2(101)
22:31 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding $str; expected 'Str' but got 'Int'␤  in sub unbase at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7397␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Ttoxb7_boi:1␤␤»
22:31 lizmat m: say :2("101")
22:31 camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«5␤»
22:32 lizmat seems artificial to me to disallow the former
22:37 [Coke] https://twitter.com/mikko/status/517358472715710465 - awesome.
22:43 geekosaur aka https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8397664
22:44 tony-o lol
22:44 geekosaur the really sad thing is, having seen 3rd party windows app code, I can well believe it
22:44 tony-o "Super Windows X Turbo: World Warriors Edition"
22:46 carlin I'm looking forward to the "all the way to 11" jokes when Windows 11 gets released
22:46 carlin or maybe Mac OS will get to XI first
22:46 geekosaur solaris beat 'em both :p
22:49 tony-o ubuntu is a number machine too
22:49 tony-o except not nearly as old as solaris
22:50 geekosaur also suse
22:50 tony-o wonder what mandrake is up to
22:52 tony-o guess it's called mandriva now
22:57 gtodd I think timotimo said it ...  "almost everything is version 10, given the right base"
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: 298e811 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Make the :8(10101) a bit more like the spec
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/298e81101c
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: d60a8fa | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/ (2 files):
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Hide unbase/unbase_bracket by uppercasing them
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom:
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Since these are leaked to the PROCESS:: namespace, and not documented in the
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: spec, we should probably hide them by obscurity for now.
23:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d60a8fad90
23:04 lizmat and with that I'm calling it a day
23:04 lizmat good night, #perl6!
23:10 [Coke] ~~
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23:29 timotimo FROGGS: do you know when you'll have time to make MATCH faster than it used to be?
23:30 timotimo can you tell how much slower it still is than it used to be?
23:37 gtodd S99
23:37 gtodd oops
23:38 gtodd S99:compilation_unit
23:38 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S99.html#compilation_unit
23:43 davido__ joined #perl6
23:43 gtodd does comipilation unit need examples?  e.g. do users need to know if supercoolscript.p6 has use Inline::Perl5; use Stats; whether files from those modules part of the "compilation unit"?
23:48 gtodd I'ld like to see entries for different filetypes too :-)  .pir  .moarvm .nqp .pm6 .pm etc .pbc .pmc
23:48 japhb gtodd: In general, there are a fair number of guarantees in the spec (and implementation) about compilation units and exactly how separate they are, so I'd say "yes"
23:49 timotimo 32nd blog post posted
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23:52 gtodd timotimo: just binge read the whole thing
23:52 gtodd :-)
23:57 gtodd japhb: just wondering ... my advantage is I can read the S99 and ask myself if I feel more knowledgeable/directed ... because  unlike many devs I have "Shoshin" :-)
23:58 gtodd gtodd: so S99 is likely to have an effect on me
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