Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-10-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 sjn jnthn: ^
00:04 Mouq m: my $z =15; my ($a, $b is rw) := 5,$z; $b=5; say $z # neat
00:04 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«5␤»
00:04 Mouq m: my $z =15; my ($a, $b is rw) := 5,$z; $b=42; say $z # clearer
00:04 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«42␤»
00:04 timotimo mouq!
00:04 timotimo can you help me? :\
00:04 Mouq timotimo: With what? :)
00:05 timotimo cairo
00:06 Mouq Uh, sure, give me some time to try installing it ^_^
00:06 timotimo right
00:07 timotimo i just pushed my newest crap
00:07 * Mouq still hasn't set up homebrew, hopefully installing from source won't cause any issues finding the library
00:07 timotimo you're on a mac?
00:08 Mouq mmhm
00:08 timotimo one second
00:09 timotimo i didn't push the gtk stuff yet
00:10 dalek gtk-simple: e83d346 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
00:10 dalek gtk-simple: let NativeCall figure out the library filename
00:10 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/e83d346067
00:10 dalek gtk-simple: da75547 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
00:10 dalek gtk-simple: couple cairo, get queue_draw and add_draw_handler.
00:10 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/da75547006
00:10 timotimo there we go.
00:19 tony-o homebrew is awesome
00:22 Mouq tony-o: Unfortunately, my laptop crashed this summer. I don't really mind installing from source... but this has a few more dependencies than I'm willing to do by hand XP
00:22 Mouq tony-o: But I haven't had to install homebrew up until this point
00:22 Mouq *after the crash, that is
00:23 tony-o i went without for 2 years but it does make installing stuff (libraries, in particular) a whole lot easier
00:23 tony-o i originally had ports
00:23 Mouq And now it's telling me that all the stuff I installed by hand need to go -_-
00:24 Mouq (how about: no.)
00:24 timotimo oke :(
00:24 tony-o Mouq: ouch
00:25 tony-o just trying to test something or actually use it?
00:25 Mouq looks like it's installing cairo fine :D
00:26 timotimo m: enum Foo ( INVALID => -1, "A", "B", "C" ); say INVALID.Int; say A.Int;
00:26 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«-1␤0␤»
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00:37 timotimo i've got something semi-working now ...
00:37 xiaomiao joined #perl6
00:38 timotimo sweet.
00:39 dayangkun joined #perl6
00:39 Mouq Lol, now that I finally have Cairo and GTK installed and unborked my shell from the changed brew had me make..
00:40 Mouq What is it you wanted help with? :)
00:41 timotimo do you see my query?
00:42 Mouq no..?
00:42 Mouq Alas.. Cannot locate native library 'libgtk-3.dylib'
00:43 Mouq AKA why sanity tests are a good thing :P
00:43 timotimo damn
00:43 timotimo yeah yeah
00:43 timotimo feel free to contribute :)
00:43 timotimo please
00:43 Mouq Haha :)
00:44 timotimo you're in the perl6 team on github?
00:44 timotimo yes, you are
00:45 FROGGS joined #perl6
00:45 Mouq Oh, it would help if I installed gtk+3 m)
00:45 timotimo surely would
00:48 tony-o it works in linux/osx without any .dylib or .so
00:48 tony-o from what i've seen so far
00:48 timotimo aye, i've removed the '.so.0' from the "is native" traits
00:48 tony-o it doesn't work in osx with either of those appended, from what i've experienced
00:49 timotimo please make sure the source you're getting doesn't have extensions
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00:51 Mouq No, it seems to function, and the GTK examples summon XQuartz, but nothing actually shows up
00:51 timotimo aaw damn
00:51 timotimo gtk still requires X on osx even in version 3?
00:52 Mouq Looks like it doesn't get past GTK::Simple::App.new(title => "Hello GTK!")
00:59 timotimo huh :\
00:59 Mouq https://github.com/timo/cairo-p6/pull/1
01:01 timotimo uh dude
01:01 timotimo i already committed and pushed that
01:01 timotimo didn't i?
01:01 timotimo oops.
01:01 timotimo now i pushed it. :)
01:04 Mouq Haha :) well at least Cairo works great
01:04 timotimo hooray i guess?
01:04 timotimo but not gtk?
01:05 timotimo i didn't even put an example up that draws a simple png or something ...
01:05 Mouq timotimo: I used the example in the README
01:05 timotimo oh, i put an example there?
01:05 timotimo wow, go me!
01:06 timotimo hooray, my starry background scroller is working!
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01:08 timotimo awesome
01:09 timotimo the profile says that after the 7th collection, it always retains less than 20 KB from one nursery to the next
01:09 timotimo and after gc number 24 the "promoted" number is always 0 KB
01:11 timotimo can't wait for NativeCall to become jitted ...
01:11 timotimo the winner in exclusive time is postcircumfix:<( )> inside NativeCall with 23.89% of time spent there
01:11 timotimo out of 22k entries only about a fifth seems to get spesh'd ... huh.
01:12 timotimo m: enum Foo ( "INVALID" => -1, "A", "B", "C" ); say INVALID.Int; say A.Int;
01:12 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/SZqYEXpjX4â�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    INVALID used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
01:12 timotimo m: enum Foo ( "INVALID" => -1, "A", "B", "C" ); say A.Int;
01:12 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«1␤»
01:12 timotimo this is VERY weird
01:12 timotimo m: enum Foo ( INVALID => -1, "A", "B", "C" ); say A.Int;
01:12 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«0␤»
01:12 timotimo this bit me in my cairo binding
01:14 japhb m: enum Foo ( INVALID => -1, "A", "B", "C" ); say C.Int;
01:14 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«2␤»
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01:18 timotimo i wouldn't mind if someone beat me to it; i'd like to rakudobug that tomorrow
01:19 timotimo but first i'll catch up on some sleep
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01:20 timotimo Mouq: would be super awesome if you could build some tests some way ...
01:20 timotimo not quite sure how that would work, tbh
01:20 timotimo (in both the gtk and the cairo case ...)
01:21 BenGoldberg m: enum Foo ( INVALID => -2, "A", "B", "C" ); say C.Int;
01:21 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«1␤»
01:22 timotimo m: enum Foo ( "INVALID" => -2, "A", "B", "C" ); say C.Int
01:22 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«3␤»
01:24 BenGoldberg m: enum Foo ( "INVALID" => -2, "A", "B", "C" ); say INVALID.Int;
01:24 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/SJXKrSu_G4â�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    INVALID used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
01:24 BenGoldberg m: enum Foo ( INVALID:-2, "A", "B", "C" ); say C.Int;
01:24 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/rWj4ufhOD6â�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/rWj4ufhOD6:1â�¤------> [32menum Foo ( INVALID[33mâ��[31m:-2, "A", "B", "C" ); say C.Int;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        po…»
01:24 BenGoldberg m: enum Foo ( INVALID:(-2), "A", "B", "C" ); say C.Int;
01:24 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/OBcLlW8YiBâ�¤Malformed parameterâ�¤at /tmp/OBcLlW8YiB:1â�¤------> [32menum Foo ( INVALID:([33mâ��[31m-2), "A", "B", "C" ); say C.Int;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        colon pairâ�¤        si…»
01:24 BenGoldberg m: enum Foo ( "INVALID":(-2), "A", "B", "C" ); say C.Int;
01:24 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/ZeISisEiGyâ�¤Malformed parameterâ�¤at /tmp/ZeISisEiGy:1â�¤------> [32menum Foo ( "INVALID":([33mâ��[31m-2), "A", "B", "C" ); say C.Int;[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        colon pairâ�¤        â€¦Â»
01:27 Mouq timotimo: I tried https://gist.github.com/Mouq/53bf7f18a34e84d4fc40
01:28 Mouq timotimo: But it's just hanging instead of timing out
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01:37 Mouq m: enum Foo «:INVALID(-1) A B C»; say C.Int
01:37 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/6mSwHsXsgRâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    C used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
01:37 Mouq m: enum Foo «:INVALID<-1> A B C»; say C.Int
01:37 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/AudDT4RgMmâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    C used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
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02:04 araujo hello... for those around... does perl6 have already a xmlrpc lib/module?
02:07 Mouq I've gotten GTK::Simple from hanging to "Cannot locate native library 'libgobject-2.0.so'" \o/
02:09 Mouq araujo: If one exists, modules.perl6.org doesn't know about it
02:09 Mouq araujo: Though we have JSON::RPC :P
02:09 araujo I see....
02:09 araujo thanks Mouq , I will check better around
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02:22 Mouq I GOT GTK::SIMPLE TO WORK! \o/
02:24 Mouq Besides all the problems with getting the libraries to work right for me personally, NativeCall wasn't spotting my "libgobject-2.0.dylib"
02:24 Mouq So AFAICT it's a bug with NativeCall
02:36 tony-o f.lux is screwing with me
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02:59 dalek gtk-simple: 67066be | Mouq++ | t/01_sanity.t:
02:59 dalek gtk-simple: Add sanity test
02:59 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/67066be63c
03:01 tony-o more io stuff breaks :/
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03:39 tony-o there we go, is there a mechanism in panda to install stuff to a 'bin' directory?
03:51 dalek ecosystem: 3beaefe | tony-o++ | META.list:
03:51 dalek ecosystem: pandapack - empty shell of hopes/dreams/etc
03:51 dalek ecosystem:
03:51 dalek ecosystem: don't get excited, it does nothing and succeeds thus far
03:51 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/3beaefe1d2
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05:01 dalek doc: 5788b6d | Mouq++ | lib/ (2 files):
05:01 dalek doc: Revamp Signature.pod some and have functions.pod point to it
05:01 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5788b6d49a
05:01 teagan Hello again! I'm working on a different problem now!
05:02 teagan I'm getting an error when I try to work with variables using ! instead of .
05:02 teagan This is the class I'm using right now: http://pastebin.com/cWreaRfK
05:02 teagan What seems to be happening is that the password parameter is not being saved into the $!password variable
05:05 teagan Any thoughts on how I might be able to set this value?
05:09 Mouq teagan: Hmm, are you sure you're actually getting the password passed to method new?
05:10 teagan When I put "say $password;" right above the self.bless line both passwords display in terminal properly so I believe so!
05:11 Mouq Oh, you know what, I think that might be correct behavior... according to http://doc.perl6.org/language/objects#Object_Construction anyway
05:11 Mouq But you might want to try adding `submethod BUILD (:$!username, :$!password, :@!characters) { }`
05:13 Mouq m: class Foo { has $!bar; method new ($bar) { self.bless :$bar }; method bar { $!bar } }; Foo.new(42).bar.say
05:13 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
05:14 teagan So I should put exclamation points in front of all variables in that BUILD line even though they're not that way in the class?
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05:17 Mouq teagan: `has $.bar` creates a $!bar attribute and an setter/getter method self.bar, i.e., $.bar
05:17 Mouq As I understand it
05:18 Mouq m: class Foo { method bar { 42 }; method baz { $.bar } }; say Foo.baz
05:18 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«42␤»
05:18 teagan So are setter/getter methods a bad idea on passwords?
05:19 Mouq teagan: Depends on what you want to do with them, I suppose
05:20 Mouq If you don't want other bits of code to be able to read what password they've supplied the User class with, then yes
05:21 Mouq (And my bad again: it only makes a setter if you write `is rw`)
05:21 Mouq m: class Foo { has $.bar is rw }; my $baz = Foo.new; $baz.bar = 42; # etc
05:21 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: ( no output )
05:23 Mouq m: class Foo { has $.bar is rw }; my $baz = Foo.new; say $baz.bar.VAR.name
05:23 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«$!bar␤»
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05:26 teagan Okay, so if I want to keep the class' variable as $!password and take the parameter $password, what's involved in making that work? Or are you saying that it can't? Sorry, I'm a little confused!
05:27 Mouq teagan: I was a little confusing
05:28 Mouq But if you add `submethod BUILD (:$!username, :$!password, :@!characters) { }` in addition to what you already have, it should work
05:29 teagan In new(), or just in User?
05:29 Mouq or ``submethod BUILD (:$!password) { callsame }`
05:29 Mouq oops
05:29 Mouq in User
05:31 teagan Okay, and from where should I call it?
05:32 Mouq BUILD is called by self.bless
05:32 teagan Oh really? That's cool!
05:32 Mouq See http://doc.perl6.org/language/objects#Object_Construction
05:33 Mouq Though I admit I find that section a little hard to read myself
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05:35 teagan Hmm, adding BUILD has resulted in a new error, "use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context...
05:35 teagan "
05:36 teagan Actually, that's the same error as I was getting with password, except now I'm getting it for username too
05:36 teagan Here's the new code: http://pastebin.com/U5JmPngW
05:38 teagan Would doing a pastebin of the 100-line program as a whole be helpful?
05:38 Mouq Ah! No, don't use the or `` thing I wrote, that was me pressing paste by accident >_<
05:39 teagan Do I need callsame in the curly brackets or just leave it empty?
05:39 Mouq I'm sorry I'm so confusing. Objects aren't my strong spot with Perl 6
05:39 Mouq No, as in use submethod BUILD (:$!username, :$!password, :@!characters) { }
05:39 Mouq That should fix it..
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05:40 teagan Wow, that did it! Thanks so much!
05:40 teagan I hate to be That Guy but... why did that work?
05:40 Mouq teagan: NP, sorry for taking so long to explain it! :)
05:43 Mouq User.new() first makes a new User object, and then it looks for a BUILD method to call
05:44 Mouq The default BUILD method is in Mu
05:45 Mouq And I should have been clearer -- I mean self.bless() rather than User.new..
05:47 teagan Okay, so when it executes the bless instruction it looks for any BUILD methods to help it out?
05:47 Mouq Yeah.. and, so, calling .BUILD( password => 12345 ) will make $!password = 12345 because it's the parameter of the method.
05:48 teagan How come a BUILD method that referred to $.variables as $!variables and then didn't do anything help? Haha
05:48 Mouq You mean the one I accidentally pasted?
05:49 teagan This one that works has nothing in the curly brackets
05:49 teagan So it's not executing any instructions?
05:49 teagan Yet it still fixes the problem?
05:49 teagan :P
05:50 Mouq Yep. You *could* write it as `submethod BUILD (:$username, :$password, :@characters) { $!username = $username; $!password = $password; @!characters = @characters }`
05:50 Mouq But writing (:$!username, :$!password, :@!characters) does all that for you
05:50 teagan Ohh! So it's another example of Perl's magic shorthand!
05:50 teagan Snazzy
05:51 Mouq Perl likes magic shorthands :9
05:52 teagan It's a lot to wrap my head around having just started today
05:52 teagan But thanks so much for taking the time to help me understand!
05:56 Mouq teagan: Definitely. Perl 6 has a lot of features, but at least be consoled you can get by knowing a relatively small subset of it.
05:56 Mouq teagan: Sure thing! :)
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05:57 teagan :)
05:57 teagan Have a good night!
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06:03 Mouq 'night teagan!
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07:06 jnthn morning, #perl6
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07:51 lizmat jnthn o/
07:51 FROGGS morning
07:52 * lizmat is about to be offline for most of the day
07:55 FROGGS lizmat: woolfy and the shower is well?
07:56 woolfy FROGGS: the shower is hell...  I've stepped inside, and I'm just too tall for the damn thing, and lizmat has even more problems.  So, no shower.  Brr.
07:56 FROGGS eww
07:56 FROGGS bloody iShower
07:56 FROGGS too modern to be useful
07:58 moritz woolfy, lizmat: where are you?
07:59 woolfy moritz: in Amsterdam, in a Fletcher hotel.  http://www.booking.com/hotel/nl/fletcher-amsterdam.en-gb.html
08:00 moritz woolfy: looks cute :-)
08:01 woolfy Last night we had a nice Amsterdam.pm meeting with 16 attendees and 6 presentations.
08:01 Hor|zon joined #perl6
08:02 woolfy One about Perl 6 by Tux.  He is converting Text::CSV to Perl 6 and was showing us his (considerable) progress.  Tuxx++
08:02 woolfy hmmm...  Tux++
08:05 lizmat or: [Tux] ++  :-)
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08:08 jnthn lizmat: Starting the long trip Austria-wards today? :)
08:09 lizmat well, in a way, yes
08:09 FROGGS don't tell nwc10 about Austria-warts /o\
08:09 lizmat first some shopping in Amsterdam, then some shopping in Ghent, then a meeting in Ghent, then home, then onwards to Karlsruhe, and then onwards to Salzburg
08:09 nwc10 Austria-warts include
08:09 nwc10 1) not enough lamb
08:10 nwc10 2) not enough cider
08:10 nwc10 3) "cappochino", if you're not careful in your specification
08:10 FROGGS 4) ppl talk weird in Vienna
08:10 lizmat hope to arrive around 19:00 tomorrow in Salzburg
08:11 FROGGS lizmat: at the same time like timotimo and me :o)
08:11 nwc10 They talk differently weird in Stiermark
08:11 nwc10 and all of them aren't using proper German words for some things
08:11 FROGGS nwc10: true, but I like that one
08:11 nwc10 I can't spell it either, it seems
08:11 FROGGS Topfen /o/
08:11 nwc10 maybe I should have tried Styria
08:11 woolfy FROGGS: strangely enough, leont will arrive at almost exactly the same time!
08:12 FROGGS it is Steyermark, no?
08:12 FROGGS woolfy: nice :o)
08:12 nwc10 oh, nice
08:12 FROGGS damn... can't stand it
08:12 nwc10 I wasn't certain he was coming because he's not confirmed
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08:12 woolfy He will come if he will be at our home tomorrow at 09:15.  :-)
08:14 woolfy Nice to arrive with four Perl 6 people in Salzburg.
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08:18 jnthn much wow
08:18 jnthn woolfy: I'll wait around for y'all at the hotel (probably madly scribbling my talk), and guess can all head out for noms :)
08:19 * jnthn gets in earlier
08:20 nwc10 I don't yet know when I'm arriving
08:20 nwc10 (other than "Thursday early evening")
08:20 nwc10 weather looks good: http://www.zamg.ac.at/cms/de/wetter/wetter-oesterreich/salzburg/morgen_nachmittag
08:21 woolfy jnthn: OK, will take you with us in the car.  Nice to arrive with five Perl 6 people at social event.  :-)
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08:24 laben hello #perl6
08:26 moritz nwc10, woolfy, lizmat: if any of you want to visit me on your way from or to APW, that would be very nice
08:26 moritz (or any other 6er that I might have forgotten to hilight, for that matter)
08:26 lizmat moritz: *on* the way, would be difficult...
08:28 lizmat on the way back, definitely an option
08:28 woolfy moritz: lizmat seems tohave your address...
08:28 jnthn nwc10: Yeah, weather here is crap! Will be glad of the improvement in Salzburg :)
08:28 lizmat but it would not be much more than having lunch on Wed, because we need to be back home late Wed
08:28 moritz lizmat: do you already know when you'll drive back
08:28 moritz lizmat: lunch would suit me fine
08:28 lizmat 3.5 hours to Erlangen, then 5.5 hours home
08:29 moritz lizmat: it's actually Fuerth/Nuernberg now, but that's close to Erlangen
08:29 lizmat yup, close  :-)
08:29 moritz (20km away)
08:29 lizmat let's try to get that together on Wed then  :-)
08:29 moritz lizmat: aye!
08:30 moritz (but not I'm afk for a bit, meeting)
08:30 woolfy moritz: on the way to Salzburg, we will probably have a lot of road work problems, and we are picking up timotimo up, and if we are lucky, we will be in time in Salzburg to join the pre-event social.
08:30 woolfy So, no visiting you on our way to Salzburg...
08:30 woolfy Ah...  I was superfluous...  :-)
08:31 * woolfy and lizmat now on the road to Amsterdam and then off to Ghent.
08:31 woolfy afk
08:31 woolfy left #perl6
08:31 lizmat commuting :-)  &
08:31 TimToady drive good
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08:34 laben_ welp, some net problems
08:36 laben_ m: class T { has $.a; has $!b; has $.c; method new($a, $b) {self.bless(:$a, :$b);}}; my $t = T.new(1,2); $t.perl.say;
08:36 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«T.new(a => 1, c => Any)␤»
08:36 laben_ why does this not work?
08:36 laben_ i mean, why doesn't it initialize $!b?
08:37 Hor|zon joined #perl6
08:37 laben_ it doesn't even set it to Any like $.c
08:38 jnthn laben_: It's private.
08:38 jnthn laben_: So the outside of the class shouldn't know about it.
08:38 laben_ but $.a too, it just has a getter...
08:39 jnthn Yes, that is what indicates that bless is allowed to set it.
08:39 jnthn And that it shoudl show up in .perl
08:39 laben_ m: class T { has $.a; has $!b; has $.c; method new($a, $c) {self.bless(:$a, b => 5, $:c);}}; my $t = T.new(1,2); $t.perl.say;
08:39 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/mFhfVjzUZe�Redeclaration of symbol $:c as a placeholder parameter�at /tmp/mFhfVjzUZe:1�------> [32mnew($a, $c) {self.bless(:$a, b => 5, $:c[33m�[31m);}}; my $t = T.new(1,2); $t.perl.say;…»
08:39 laben_ m: class T { has $.a; has $!b; has $.c; method new($a, $c) {self.bless(:$a, $:c, b => 5);}}; my $t = T.new(1,2); $t.perl.say;
08:39 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/5vOY5J0QTP�Redeclaration of symbol $:c as a placeholder parameter�at /tmp/5vOY5J0QTP:1�------> [32m method new($a, $c) {self.bless(:$a, $:c[33m�[31m, b => 5);}}; my $t = T.new(1,2); $t.pe…»
08:40 jnthn :$c, not $:c
08:40 laben_ m: class T { has $.a; has $!b; has $.c; method new($a, $c) {self.bless(:$a, b => 5, :$c);}}; my $t = T.new(1,2); $t.perl.say;
08:40 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«T.new(a => 1, c => 2)␤»
08:40 jnthn As I said though, *bless* will not set it
08:40 jnthn write a submethod BUILD
08:40 * jnthn gotta go back to teaching, sorry...
08:40 laben_ jnthn: thanks, but why? this is extremely confusing
08:43 laben_ what is the use of new if i need to write an additional BUILD method? not trying to be abrasive, i would just like to understand the reasoning
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08:50 laben_ m: class T { has $.a; has $!b; has $.c; submethod BUILD(:$!a, :$!b = 5, :$!c) {}}; my $t = T.new(a => 1, c => 2); $t.perl.say;
08:50 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«T.new(a => 1, c => 2)␤»
08:50 TimToady the point of privacy is to not let people write code that depends on that part of the interface because the name might change in the future; on the other hand, if you want to expose the name, there's little reason not to declare it $.b instead, since you can still refer to it internally as $!b
08:51 TimToady and if you change the name of the internal attribute, you can still map that name to the new attribute
08:51 laben_ i know the point of privacy, but if i do it inside the new method, no one knows but the class and it still doesnt work
08:52 laben_ now, why the BUILD way doesnt work either?
08:52 laben_ wait, .perl doesnt show it?
08:53 TimToady I don't know why your default doesn't work, other than that people usually put it on the 'has' instead
08:54 laben_ m: class T { has $.a; has $!b; has $.c; submethod BUILD(:$!a, :$!b = 5, :$!c) {}; method dd {$!b}}; my $t = T.new(a => 1, c => 2); $t.perl.say; $t.dd.say
08:54 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«T.new(a => 1, c => 2)␤5␤»
08:54 TimToady oh, it does work, sorry, not awake yet
08:54 laben_ yep, .perl doesn't show it
08:55 TimToady m: class T { has $.a; has $!b; has $.c; submethod BUILD(:$!a, :$!b = 5, :$!c) {}}; my $t = T.new(a => 1, c => 2); say $t.DUMP
08:55 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«T<1>(␤    :a(1),␤    :$!b(5),␤    :c(2)␤)␤»
08:55 laben_ i still think it's confusing and certainly undocumented outside of the synopses, assuming it's explained there
08:56 yeahnoob joined #perl6
08:56 TimToady well, language design is all tradeoffs...
08:56 TimToady so it's impossible to reduce confusion to 0
08:57 TimToady that's not, of course, an excuse for excess confusion :)
08:57 laben_ but why the distinction between new and BUILD?
08:58 laben_ personally, i would be satisfied if i could read the reasoning between several design decisions, that would make me understand the language better
08:58 TimToady because new for creating an object as a whole, not for monkeying with the class's particular infrastructure
08:58 TimToady especially when you have inheritance, each parent class is in charge of its own infrastructure, via BUILD
09:00 Hor|zon joined #perl6
09:00 laben_ you mean initializing a private attribute with some value (even non static) which can be done only with BUILD is monkeying with the class infrastucture? i don't understand
09:01 TimToady if you declare an attribute private, it means you are reserving the right to change it without the consent of your parent or child classes, as well as any random users of your class
09:02 laben_ at least, initializing a $! attribute out of build should trigger a warning, don't you think?
09:03 laben_ s/build/BUILD/
09:04 TimToady why would we want a warning if the programmer is doing it on purpose?  then they'd just have to suppress the warning
09:04 erkan joined #perl6
09:04 TimToady warnings are for when we're pretty sure that the user is confused
09:05 TimToady but if we start guessing about that, we make everyone mad :)
09:05 laben_ i should get a warning because setting it in new does not work, and i don't see hint of that
09:06 TimToady well, there should probably be a warning that the argument is unused, but we haven't figured out how to do that yet
09:06 ecocode joined #perl6
09:06 timotimo o/
09:07 TimToady we'd need a bit somewhere that says "some level of this multilevel call used this value"
09:07 laben_ indeed, i'm confused because i would think that setting an attribute in new() works, while i should read a warning like "Private attribs like $!b can only be init'ed in BUILD submethod"
09:07 TimToady but we can't just delete it on use, because multiple levels may reuse the value
09:07 timotimo laben_: i have a few points for you
09:07 timotimo 1) the new method doesn't implicitly call parent or child news inside your class hierarchy for you
09:07 timotimo 2) the BUILD method, however, does get called for all classes in your hierarchy
09:08 timotimo that means that we can't simply error out when we get an additional parameter passed that doesn't correspond to a $!foo in your class C if C is derived from B which is derived from A
09:08 timotimo because even if B or A don't have a $!foo either, they might want to take a named parameter "foo" and do something with it
09:08 timotimo also, your default value is better placed in the "has" clause, IMO
09:08 timotimo hope that helps at all?
09:10 laben_ timotimo: but i'm not talking about a parameter which seems not used, i'm talking about trying to use a parameter to init an attrib with the same name, but it silently does not work because it needs to be done in BUILD
09:10 timotimo there's also the thing where every method has an implicit *%_ to it that'll silently swallow excess named attributes
09:11 yeahnoob joined #perl6
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09:11 laben_ i see in doc a little of this behaviour is documented, but only in a few lines which leaves it pretty confusing
09:12 timotimo yeah, that's bad.
09:13 TimToady maybe you should switch from OO to FP programming, where everything is perfectly clear :)
09:14 laben_ TimToady: not to me and i'm not asking every behaviour to be clear, just for it to be documented a bit more clearly, not everyone is a rakudo developer :/
09:20 laben_ m: class T { has $.a; has $.c; method new($a, *%opts) {self.bless(:$a, |%opts)}}; my $t = T.new(1, b => 2); $t.DUMP.say
09:21 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«T<1>(␤    :a(1),␤    :c(Any)␤)␤»
09:21 laben_ man, i dunno what to do here, how can i make it work?
09:23 TimToady declare $.b maybe
09:23 FROGGS laben_: how should it know that you want to assign b to c?
09:23 laben_ i don't want to assing b to c
09:23 laben_ assign*
09:23 FROGGS m: class T { has $.a; has $.c; method new($a, *%opts) {self.bless(:$a, :c(%opts<b>))}}; my $t = T.new(1, b => 2); $t.DUMP.say
09:23 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«T<1>(␤    :a(1),␤    :c(2)␤)␤»
09:23 pat_js joined #perl6
09:23 FROGGS ohh
09:24 FROGGS I thought so
09:24 laben_ i would like to pass additional params for the class via new
09:24 skarn joined #perl6
09:24 FROGGS laben_: what should happen with these?
09:25 laben_ i thought %opts would get filled with b => 2, then with |%opts i would get the equiv of bless(:$a, b => 2), therefore creating an attrib b with value 2
09:26 TimToady p6 objects are not hashes
09:26 timotimo attribs have to be defined with "has" clauses
09:26 FROGGS laben_: an attribute won't be created out of thin air just because you pass it to new
09:26 TimToady you can't just shove a new attribute in
09:26 laben_ i need to tell that to XML guys
09:27 FROGGS one would have to use the MOP to add attribute conditionally... but I am not sure how good that idea is :o)
09:27 laben_ but there is a way to add attribs at runtime, no?
09:27 TimToady sounds more like you want a hash attribute
09:27 moritz laben_: or you could have a hash attribute inside an object
09:27 laben_ otherwise how do you support prototype-based inheritance
09:27 FROGGS something like: $target.HOW.add_attribute($target, $add_attr);
09:27 moritz via a custom meta object protocol
09:28 FROGGS and one has to add the public accessors then too
09:28 laben_ moritz: can you explain or link some material?
09:29 Ven joined #perl6
09:29 Ven Well backlogged, #perl6
09:29 timotimo o/ ven
09:30 Ven I am arriving at salzburg at 4pm (tomorrow, that is). Will there be some 6ers?
09:30 timotimo FROGGS: actually, adding an attribute before you compose the package will create the accessor for you, too, IIRC
09:30 FROGGS ohh
09:31 FROGGS timotimo: but what is about doing would happen when instantiating an object... the package will be composed already, no?
09:32 timotimo well, an XML file has to have a DTD
09:32 timotimo build the classes based on that DTD
09:32 timotimo :P
09:32 laben_ timotimo: so, can i do that in a BUILD submethod?
09:33 timotimo no
09:33 timotimo not the way i'm proposing, i mean
09:33 Ven class A { has %.attrs is bucket; }
09:33 laben_ is bucket? what is it?
09:34 Ven nothing :P
09:34 timotimo what is it? you decide! :)
09:35 laben_ ? i'm getting confused?
09:35 Ven It's nothing *yet*, but you're very free to define it yourself
09:35 laben_ i know is rw, but there is no other in the docs
09:36 Ven in the docs?
09:36 dalek roast: 05bf75e | usev6++ | S04-phasers/begin.t:
09:36 dalek roast: Add test for RT #115502
09:36 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/05bf75e3b6
09:36 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=115502
09:36 Ven I know I explain how `is` works in my tutorial, at least
09:36 laben_ doc.perl6.org, reading from these for now, synopses are a bit much too
09:36 Ven laben_: have you tried http://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ ?
09:37 Ven I'd love some feedback ;)
09:37 laben_ Ven: thanks for the link, i'll tell you
09:38 * Ven hopes there will be some other people by salzburg at 4pm :)
09:39 laben_ Ven: first thing right off the bat is the first :truey and :!falsey, you should make clear that the result is not based on the names. i mean, it works even if you call them :foo and :!bar
09:40 * Ven takes note
09:40 pepl joined #perl6
09:42 laben_ with-named(3, :4named); #=> 7                                           is this seriously a thing? this is a typo nightmare
09:43 Ven how so
09:43 FROGGS laben_: that is a pair constructor syntax, usually used in: s:2nd/foo/bar/
09:43 FROGGS m: say :2nd; say :4named;
09:43 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'nd' passed␤  in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:15835␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/rlIaHBIajO:1␤␤»
09:44 Ven hahah
09:44 laben_ Ven: if i typo and write :3end instead of :end
09:44 FROGGS m: say (:2nd); say (:4named)
09:44 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«"nd" => 2␤"named" => 4␤»
09:44 Ven laben_: why would you do that, though?
09:44 Ven that's the same problem as every other typo. I don't understand your argument
09:44 Ven if you write :eend instead of :end... That's the same problem
09:45 laben_ Ven: with this mechanism is perfectly legal and even returns a value, instead of giving warning beacuse you use undefined
09:45 laben_ because*
09:45 FROGGS I once typo'd: if(someconditionhere); {ahugeblockhere} and it took me quite a while to find it
09:45 Ven laben_: I still don't understand. What's undefined?
09:45 FROGGS still, a typo is a typo
09:46 Ven m: say (:eeeend); # I just typo'd "end" here. same problem
09:46 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«"eeeend" => Bool::True␤»
09:47 Ven How is it a "typo nightmare"?
09:47 bjz joined #perl6
09:47 laben_ Ven: i want to put a param :end, i mistype :eend, when i try to use end it says undefined because i did not pass anything, while if i mistype :3end, it's not undefined
09:48 Ven now imagine if you mistyped :!end :)
09:48 laben_ Ven: because i made a typo and the usual system that warns me doesn't
09:48 FROGGS laben_: looks more like you are complaining about the fact that additional named arguments passed to methods are just swallowed
09:48 Ven if you do Bool :$end, then you're certainly gonna get an error.
09:48 laben_ Ven: that is if who wrote the sub code specified a type, but what if he didn't?
09:49 Ven laben_: (it's gonna be truthy anyways)
09:49 FROGGS m: sub foo(:$end) { }; foo(:3end)
09:49 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: ( no output )
09:49 FROGGS err
09:49 FROGGS m: sub foo(:$end) { }; foo(:$eend)
09:49 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/D6HZI5ncjm�Variable '$eend' is not declared�at /tmp/D6HZI5ncjm:1�------> [32msub foo(:$end) { }; foo(:$eend[33m�[31m)[0m�»
09:49 FROGGS m: sub foo(:$end) { }; foo(:eend)
09:49 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'eend' passed␤  in sub foo at /tmp/MXzZNingbI:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/MXzZNingbI:1␤␤»
09:50 FROGGS laben_: you basically want that message me thinks, but you'll only get it for subs, not methods
09:50 arnsholt laben_: If you misspell a named, in most cases dispatch will complain about an unknown argument
09:50 laben_ FROGGS: if i come off as complaining it's just because i would like an explaination, not that i want to change Perl 6 behaviour
09:51 arnsholt And well, I don't see how that named syntax is more prone to misspellings than other syntaxes
09:51 FROGGS arnsholt: not for methods
09:51 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
09:51 arnsholt Are methods magically *%nameds?
09:51 FROGGS yes
09:52 arnsholt Oh. Didn't know that
09:52 laben_ i'm truly sorry if i come off as scathing, it's not my intention, i hope you can continue to view me as friendly
09:52 timotimo that's fine :)
09:55 Ven arnsholt: yeah, it's for nextsame etc.
10:02 colomon Debugger::UI::CommandLine, GTK::Simple, NCurses, and Semantic::Versioning all started failing overnight.  :\
10:03 colomon oh, "failed cloning repository"
10:03 timotimo huh
10:03 * colomon launches another smoke test.
10:08 kurahaupo joined #perl6
10:08 Hor|zon joined #perl6
10:10 laben_ Ven: the "arbitrary precondition" you speak of in the Multi Dispatch section doesn't have a specific name? If so, you should cite it
10:11 Ven laben_:well, it's called "wheres"
10:12 laben_ Ven: the capability to restrict a type to a subset resulting true of a predicate, it doesn't have a name? sorry, i thought i read it somewhere
10:13 jnthn Refinement type, maybe
10:13 jnthn Though we typically just say "subset type" here, I think
10:14 laben_ jnthn: i see
10:15 jnthn On new/BUILD, I typically write a new when I want to change the API for construction from named parameters to something else, and use BUILD when I want more control over how attributes are initialized in my class
10:16 laben_ jnthn: you can only use one or the other?
10:16 kjs_ joined #perl6
10:16 jnthn laben_: You can do both
10:16 FROGGS jnthn: "in your class" is ambiguous :o)
10:17 jnthn FROGGS: I know exactly what my class is :P
10:17 FROGGS yeah, probably :o)
10:17 jnthn laben_: That said, in reality, I quite often write a BUILD, and only rarely write a new
10:18 jnthn laben_: 'cus culturally, "pass named args to new" is the common thing
10:18 Ven jnthn: noted. s06 doesn't give it a name
10:18 jnthn So I tend to want a fairly strong reason to do that.
10:19 laben_ jnthn: culturally, for perl. not if you want to attract people from other languages
10:21 jnthn Typically when I go to a language, I read code and figure out its cultural norms. :)
10:21 abraxxa i'm looking for a way to define a variable in test files that use a single test file via an eval
10:22 abraxxa in https://github.com/abraxxa/DBIish/blob/master/t/45-oracle-common.t
10:23 abraxxa but i want to define the default value in the t/99-common.pl6 file and not define it in each test file
10:23 abraxxa this works with $* scoped vars but still requires to define the var in each evaling test file
10:25 laben_ jnthn: i agree, but i don't think that behaviour is the norm. basically, i'm saying that people not used to that will try and complain about those differences unless told explicitely and strongly
10:26 arnsholt jnthn: Yeah. Just like natural language there are constructions that are correct and make sense, they're just (almost) never used
10:26 lichtkind joined #perl6
10:26 jnthn arnsholt: Yeah. You should see how friously my colorless green ideas are sleeping... :)
10:26 jnthn *furiously
10:26 arnsholt My favourite example is "pepper and salt". Makes perfect sense, and yet it's just wrong =)
10:26 FROGGS laben_: surely, but we can't change Perl 6 into something that everyone expects... you only can make some ppl happy out of the box
10:27 jnthn arnsholt: Isn't there a photetics explanation for why that sounds wrong compared to "salt and pepepr"...
10:27 jnthn laben_: So, we need to document/explain this more prominently/clearly?
10:27 arnsholt Not that I've encountered, but could be something like that
10:27 laben_ FROGGS: again i agree, it's just that there is a lot of documentation work to be done to prevent complaints to the max
10:28 laben_ jnthn: in my humble opinion, yes
10:28 FROGGS jnthn: d followed by s is problematic me thinks
10:28 FROGGS laben_: true
10:29 jnthn laben_: OK, that gives me/us something concrete to work on. Thanks.
10:29 jnthn Maybe I can dig up some concrete examples from modules that illustrate it well...
10:29 rurban lizmat: what's with this "heat death parsing times" for my constant π := pi? RT #122785
10:29 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122785
10:30 laben_ also, a clear collection of examples of class building and attribute wrangling would be probably the best solution. remember why people love(d) StackOverflow, it's because you see example, you copy example, then work it out
10:31 FROGGS rurban: when we stick literal unicode characters in rakudo's core setting, the stage parse will increase exponential on parrot
10:31 lichtkind cheers pplz, i have an interesting bug for you
10:31 azawawi joined #perl6
10:31 FROGGS rurban: so we have to avoid that
10:31 azawawi hi
10:31 FROGGS lichtkind: do tell
10:31 rurban numbers?
10:31 FROGGS rurban: I have none
10:32 FROGGS (atm)
10:32 rurban maybe I should attack that first. encodings are handled very inefficiently between imcc and the core parrot API
10:33 FROGGS rurban++
10:33 laben_ or a good faq, an example question would be "What is the difference between a private method and a sub in a class" coupled with short codes that illustrates the q
10:33 lichtkind unhandled exception: failed to load library 'dynext/libperl6_ops_moar.dylib' at <unknown>:1 (long/path/rakudo/perl6.moarvm:<dependencies+deserialize>:306)
10:34 lichtkind which comes at any call of perl6-m on my macbook
10:34 laben_ btw, what is the answer to that question?
10:34 lichtkind built just yesterday
10:34 jnthn laben_: A private method can access attributes, a sub can not
10:35 laben_ jnthn: that's exactly the type of answer needed, precise and concise
10:35 laben_ the things one can remember from heart
10:35 FROGGS lichtkind: and that happens inside the rakudo directory as well?
10:36 lichtkind yes
10:36 FROGGS does that file exist?
10:36 lichtkind no actually no
10:36 lichtkind my fault
10:36 FROGGS O.o
10:36 jnthn And how the heck did it get through the build without that file? :)
10:36 lichtkind in the dir all is fine
10:36 FROGGS ahh
10:37 jnthn lichtkind: did you "make install" :)]
10:37 FROGGS lichtkind: did you "make install"?
10:37 jnthn lol
10:37 FROGGS ehh
10:37 rurban added https://github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/1097 for imcc bad handling of encoded strings
10:37 lichtkind yes i redid make install
10:37 lichtkind same problem
10:38 lichtkind i do whole thing again
10:38 FROGGS lichtkind: can you no-paste the output of make install?
10:38 lichtkind just to make sure
10:38 lichtkind hardly so since i dont have an irc client on my macbook but mom please
10:39 FROGGS rurban: the timings are from your box?
10:39 rurban yes, my slow macair
10:40 rurban a bigger box would be faster
10:40 FROGGS rurban: that explosion to 440s is just crazy :o)
10:41 rurban well, I knew that for a long time, but didn't know that it affects rakudo that much. I thought method call slowness is more important for now
10:41 rurban we'll see how to prioritize
10:41 rurban will need a few months probably
10:41 FROGGS yeah
10:41 rurban could or Coke you add the reference to the parrot ticket into the RT?
10:42 rurban you or Coke
10:42 FROGGS I can
10:42 leont joined #perl6
10:43 FROGGS done.
10:43 lichtkind_mac joined #perl6
10:43 lichtkind_mac ah actually i had chat :)
10:44 lichtkind_mac paste comes in a sec
10:52 laben_ phasers seems really cool
10:54 rurban FROGGS: thanks
10:54 lichtkind_mac http://pastebin.com/xbCdddUD
10:54 lichtkind_mac hope that helps
10:56 laben_ Ven: no mention of appending to or concatenating an array or a hash in your guide
11:00 jnthn ,
11:02 laben_ m: my @a = 1, 2; my @b = 3, 4; say @a,@b
11:02 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«1 23 4␤»
11:03 laben_ m: my @a = 1, 2; my @b = 3, 4; my @c = @a, @b; @c.perl.say
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2, 3, 4)␤»
11:03 laben_ m: my @a = 1, 2; my @b = 3, 4; @a = @a, @b; @a.perl.say
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2, 3, 4)␤»
11:03 jnthn .oO( I like it when I can answer in a single char :) )
11:03 jnthn m: my @a = 1, 2; my @b = 3, 4; @a ,= @b; @a.perl.say
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2, 3, 4)␤»
11:03 laben_ jnthn: cool, are there performance diff with push?
11:04 jnthn Maybe but I couldn't tell you which way :)
11:04 laben_ jnthn: i suppose the end target is to have them equivalent on performance, right?
11:05 jnthn well, or close enough you won't care :)
11:05 jnthn teaching time again :)
11:05 laben_ like if , is a fun call to push, inline it and it's great
11:09 laben_ Ven: i think there's an error on the line where you exmplain list-associative property for binary operators. that or it needs a better explaination
11:10 laben_ .tell Ven no mention of appending to or concatenating an array or a hash with the "operator ," in your guide
11:10 yoleaux laben_: I'll pass your message to Ven.
11:10 laben_ .tell Ven i think there's an error on the line where you exmplain list-associative property for binary operators. that or it needs a better explaination
11:10 yoleaux laben_: I'll pass your message to Ven.
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11:17 lichtkind FROGGS: you want any additional info?
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11:28 dalek roast: 0a2c9a8 | usev6++ | S04-phasers/enter-leave.t:
11:28 dalek roast: Add test for RT #116314
11:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0a2c9a8008
11:28 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=116314
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11:55 FROGGS lichtkind: that file gets installed: perl -MExtUtils::Command -e cp dynext/libperl6_ops_moar.dylib /Users/lichtkind/code/perl/six/rakudo/install/languages/perl6/runtime/dynext
11:56 FROGGS lichtkind: does the file exist at that path?
11:59 lichtkind it does
12:00 colomon Second smoke came out much better, but GTK::Simple is still failing.
12:01 FROGGS lichtkind: what gives you `which perl6-m`?
12:02 lichtkind the one in code/perl/six/rakudo
12:04 FROGGS so /Users/lichtkind/code/perl/six/rakudo is in PATH?
12:08 FROGGS lichtkind: ?
12:10 rurban probably, otherwise wouldn't have found it
12:11 rurban which wouldn't have found it
12:12 FROGGS lichtkind: in case the rakudo build directory is in PATH, please remove it, and only put /Users/lichtkind/code/perl/six/rakudo/install/bin in PATH
12:13 dalek roast: 95bf03a | usev6++ | S04-statements/last.t:
12:13 dalek roast: Add test for RT #116204
12:13 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/95bf03a714
12:13 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=116204
12:14 timotimo hmm
12:22 timotimo oh damn
12:22 timotimo RT hides things that are quoted by default
12:23 FROGGS yaeh
12:23 FROGGS or so
12:24 timotimo jnthn: how does the profiler react to something like $app.run() and callbacks being called from there? will those be properly removed from the exclusive time of postcircumfix:<( )>?
12:25 moritz that's the very definition of exclusive vs. inclusive time, no?
12:25 Ven joined #perl6
12:25 moritz so far I've seen no indication that the profiler mixes up the two
12:26 Ven leont: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-10-08#i_9475067 <- right, I know I need to explain flattening :)
12:26 yoleaux 11:10Z <laben_> Ven: no mention of appending to or concatenating an array or a hash with the "operator ," in your guide
12:26 yoleaux 11:10Z <laben_> Ven: i think there's an error on the line where you exmplain list-associative property for binary operators. that or it needs a better explaination
12:26 timotimo moritz: it's just because when we have a callback, we have an inferior runloop, afaict
12:26 timotimo and that could be weird
12:27 jnthn I don't think the inferior runloop will upset the profiler much
12:27 moritz uhm, what?
12:27 Ven leont: not sure I get the second message
12:27 jnthn Or at all
12:27 timotimo good
12:27 moritz I hope not every callback starts an inferior runloop?
12:27 Ven lichtkind: I've got that "bug" before.
12:27 Ven lichtkind: you added the wrong bin to your path
12:27 immortal joined #perl6
12:28 jnthn moritz: Well, each callback needs to call into the interpreter, but that's not really more costly than a normal invocation.
12:28 jnthn There's no runloop object that gets created, and the frame is just a normal frame creation on top of the normal call stack
12:29 BSc_tadzik harr harr
12:29 jnthn :D
12:29 jnthn BSc_tadzik++
12:29 timotimo BSc_tadzik: \o/
12:29 FROGGS BSc_tadzik++
12:30 FROGGS /o/
12:30 timotimo what's our status regarding "is export('FOOBAR')" (or is that "is export(:FOOBAR)"?) and the use side of things?
12:30 nwc10 BSc_tadzik++
12:30 nwc10 BSc_tadzik: so, you can come to the ball?
12:30 BSc_tadzik I even got a 5 :o
12:30 BSc_tadzik a
12:31 FROGGS a 5? on what scale?
12:31 BSc_tadzik apparently all those conference talkpractice paid off
12:31 FROGGS of course
12:31 FROGGS :o)
12:31 BSc_tadzik FROGGS: 2-5, where 2 is a failure
12:31 FROGGS ahh
12:31 FROGGS interesting
12:32 Ven o//
12:32 FROGGS they could have called it it 39-4a too, would make as much sense
12:32 Ven FROGGS: you sank my ship
12:33 FROGGS *g*
12:33 BSc_tadzik nwc10: I may be able to pull it off
12:33 timotimo that would be hella sweet
12:33 bjz joined #perl6
12:33 nwc10 BSc_tadzik: if so, that would be awesome
12:33 FROGGS \o/
12:33 BSc_tadzik nwc10: at least sunday, saturday will be quite tricky
12:34 Hor|zon joined #perl6
12:34 BSc_tadzik fri and mon are pretty much out of reach :/
12:34 nwc10 just Sunday might not be worth it
12:34 nwc10 I don't know how hard the travelling is
12:34 timotimo that would be a whole lot of travelin'
12:35 nwc10 but it seems a lot of travelling for not much conference
12:35 BSc_tadzik I don't mind :)
12:38 moritz BSc_tadzik++
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12:48 timotimo BSc_tadzik: can you make panda exit with an error number when installing modules has failed? :)
12:48 Ven nwc10: when will know the schedule is final?
12:48 BSc_tadzik timotimo: sure :)
12:48 nwc10 Ven: I don't actually know.
12:48 timotimo Calling 'gdk_event_get_keycode' will never work with argument types (GdkEvent, IntTypedCArray[uint16])
12:48 Ven ha, hmm.
12:48 timotimo Expected: :(GdkEvent $event, IntTypedCArray[uint16] $keycode)
12:49 timotimo grrr
12:49 nwc10 work has something somewhat urgent currently
12:49 Ven timotimo: known bug, right?
12:49 timotimo not sure?
12:49 Ven 'think so.
12:49 timotimo i thought our ZMQ implementation did things like that all the time and it worked out then ...
12:51 timotimo this puts a pretty harsh damper on my APW project
12:53 timotimo jnthn: you know what i could do here?
12:54 timotimo i can probably not just set that to OpaquePointe?
12:54 Hor|zon joined #perl6
12:54 timotimo maybe i actually can.
12:57 timotimo well, at least i get an exception now.
12:57 pepl Ven: re schedule - i did not get a response from daxim_ yet
12:58 Ven pepl: I received an email WRT talk... "deduplications" - was that you?
12:58 pepl yup
12:58 Ven alright :)
12:58 pepl deduplications is not the fully correct term.
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13:05 pepl early talks were accepted early because we were not sure how full we would get the schedule. because of that few speakers have more than one in the schedule. IIRC daxim_ gave at least one of those talks already. So, no extra preparation effort and thus an opportunity to have your talk instead if he would be OK with that. otherwise - backup talk
13:08 timotimo is there still room for a lightning talk, i wonder?
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13:09 Ven pepl: I'd just like to know if I need to prepare mine or not :P
13:09 timotimo FROGGS or jnthn, how do i "convert" a CArray[uint16] into an OpaquePointer? (what i'm trying to do in the "big picture" is get around the "expected IntTypedCArray[uint16] but got exactly that" error)
13:10 Ven 'guess I could do it in the train...
13:10 FROGGS hmmm
13:10 timotimo Type check failed in assignment to '$tgt'; expected 'IntTypedCArray[uint16]' but got 'Array'
13:11 timotimo i'm not entirely sure how this happens
13:11 timotimo oh!
13:11 timotimo i forgot to .new that!
13:11 Ven should say got 'Array:U" :p
13:11 timotimo that is silly
13:11 timotimo no
13:11 timotimo i wrote my CArray[uint16] $tgt; $tgt[0] = 0;
13:11 Ven oh :P
13:11 timotimo that autovivified an array
13:12 timotimo the question stands ... it seems like i need to get the memory address of the CArray
13:12 timotimo is that .WHERE?
13:14 pepl timotimo: lightning talks: yes
13:14 timotimo cool
13:14 timotimo should i register beforehand somehow?
13:15 pepl Ven: don't prepare unless you can make use of it otherwise. can't promise anything besides a backup talk
13:15 pepl timotimo: yes, please submit it via act.use.perl.at as lightning talk
13:16 Ven pepl: well, I mean, I'm not one to write really fast my talks soo
13:16 Ven is lizmat doing her c-day is coming talk?
13:17 timotimo OK
13:17 timotimo pepl: i'm not sure if i've purchased my conference ticket yet :o
13:18 nine timotimo: to pass the address of a pointer variable, you can also use a $pptr = CArray[OpaquePointer] with $pptr[0] = $pointer;
13:19 Ven oh, I havn't purchased my ticket easier.
13:19 Ven Well, student pass is 10e, I can afford that..
13:22 pepl it would be great if you could pay via bank transfer (which itself should be free inside SEPA land)
13:26 davido__ joined #perl6
13:26 timotimo aye
13:27 timotimo pepl: can you confirm that i still have to pay?
13:27 timotimo nine: that's not *quite* what i want, though
13:27 timotimo i want to pass the address of the CArray as a pointer
13:28 timotimo the function i'm trying to bind would put data into a bit of space i'm supposed to allocate, that's why it wants me to pass a pointer
13:28 timotimo and since we model pointers like that as CArray, that's what i'm doing
13:28 timotimo but i can't just put CArray[uint16] into the type signature of the native sub, as that will give me a BS error
13:28 FROGGS a solution would be to have OpaquePointer.alloc instead
13:28 FROGGS I think
13:29 FROGGS or just to solve that bloody issue about "got X[y] but expected Y[y]" :o)
13:30 pepl timotimo: in the sense that you're not sure if you already have?
13:36 Akagi201 joined #perl6
13:39 Ven Errrm... I think I'm going to split the regex part of my tutorial into another tutorial.
13:39 Ven clojure has "clojure macros" as an aside
13:40 Ven The tutorial is already massive.
13:40 nine timotimo: put OpaquePointer into the signature. You can nativecast that to CArray and vice versa.
13:41 nine timotimo: I did the same with callbacks that get passed a **: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/blob/master/lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6#L517
13:45 lichtkind FROGGS thanks it works now
13:46 FROGGS lichtkind: \o/
13:46 lichtkind good so i have something to write for the article :)
13:47 chenryn joined #perl6
13:53 FROGGS :o)
13:57 zeropool joined #perl6
14:01 timotimo nine: i'm sorry, i think i'm confused.
14:01 timotimo the signature has OpaquePointer right now
14:02 timotimo froggs told me when i nativecast an OpaquePointer, that's actually a dereference
14:03 timotimo oh yay, Internal error: invalid thread ID in GC work pass
14:04 robinsmidsrod joined #perl6
14:04 moritz that's a new one for me :-)
14:04 timotimo now OpaquePointer<140112394061936> turns into GdkEvent<140112394079928>
14:05 timotimo i'm not sure that's right
14:05 deadcool joined #perl6
14:06 timotimo that's when i nqp::box_i($the_opaque_pointer.Int, GdkEvent)
14:06 timotimo i kind of thought that should leave the number the same?
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14:11 leont Given a key argument like foo.bar.baz of unknown lengt, how do I set %hash<foo><bar><baz>?
14:12 leont My naive approach of while (...) { $current = $current{$next}; } $current{$last} = $value doesn't seem to work
14:12 timotimo is your "foo.bar.baz" a string?
14:12 leont Yes
14:12 moritz my $current = %hash; for 'foo.bar.baz'.split('.') { $current = $current{$_} }
14:13 moritz m: my %h; %h<a><b><c> = 42; my $c = %h; for 'a.b.c'.split('.') { $c .={$_} }; say $c
14:13 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«No such method '&postcircumfix:<{ }>' for invocant of type 'Hash'␤  in method dispatch:<.=> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1308␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Tmpoqwsynh:1␤␤»
14:13 moritz m: my %h; %h<a><b><c> = 42; my $c = %h; for 'a.b.c'.split('.') { $c = $c{$_} }; say $c
14:13 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«42␤»
14:14 moritz I forgot that postcircumfix { } isn't a method anymore
14:14 moritz it might be nice to have a .dive method that did that for you
14:15 moritz %h.dive('foo', 'bar', 3);
14:15 leont Well, I'm trying to set a value, not get it, that is a minor complication too
14:16 timotimo m: my %h; my $c = %h; for 'a.b.c'.split('.') { $c = $c{$_} }; $c{"d"} = "hi"; say %h;
14:16 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«␤»
14:16 moritz m: my %h; %h<a><b><c> = 42; my $c = %h; for 'a.d.x'.split('.') { $c := $c{$_} }; $c = 42; say %h.perl
14:16 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«("a" => {"b" => {"c" => 42}, "d" => {"x" => 42}}).hash␤»
14:16 moritz leont: ^^ quite minor, IMHO :-)
14:17 moritz yay for binding
14:17 timotimo ah, of course
14:17 moritz and autovivication
14:17 leont Right, binding. Yes that makes live much easier
14:17 TimToady m: my %h; %h{'foo';'bar';'baz'} = 1; say %h<foo><bar><baz>
14:17 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
14:17 leont moritz++ that did the trick
14:17 Ven TimToady: I tried it as well :)
14:17 moritz (also, if you read, the loop should have a 'last unless defined $c' or so)
14:17 Ven m: my %h; %h{'foo';'bar';'baz'} = 1; say %h
14:17 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«␤»
14:20 TimToady m: my %h; %h<foo><bar><baz> = 1; say %h{'foo';'bar';'baz'}
14:20 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«1␤»
14:20 TimToady works the other way, so just autoviv is busted
14:20 leont I'm writing a TOML parser, it has a useful but somewhat unusual syntax for hashes
14:21 TimToady m: my %h; %h<foo><bar><baz> = 1; say %h{lol <foo bar baz>}
14:21 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«"bar" => {"baz" => 1} (Any) (Any)␤»
14:21 TimToady hmm
14:21 TimToady m: my %h; %h<foo><bar><baz> = 1; say %h{<foo bar baz>.lol}
14:21 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«1␤»
14:22 TimToady m: my %h; %h<foo><bar><baz> = 1; say %h{<foo bar baz>.lol} = 42; say %h{'foo';'bar';'baz'}
14:22 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«42␤42␤»
14:22 guru joined #perl6
14:22 TimToady m: my %h; %h{<foo bar baz>.lol} = 42; say %h{'foo';'bar';'baz'}
14:22 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«␤»
14:27 xfix https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/de1626553c6d83a948040d881c60856da3ed63bf
14:27 xfix Reminds me of my old Math::Tau module.
14:27 xfix For Perl 6.
14:28 xfix https://github.com/xfix/Math-Tau/blob/master/lib/Math/Tau.pm
14:29 jnthn timotimo: Looks like a bug. Try making a constant aliasing the IntTypedCArray[uint16] and using it in both places
14:32 * jnthn survived the teaching o/ :)
14:32 jnthn Now I just have to...write my talk and get to Salzburg :)
14:33 lichtkind jnthn what do you teach that is so horrible php%
14:33 lichtkind ?
14:33 jnthn lichtkind: Oh, I was teaching something very nice
14:33 jnthn Just tiring, especially when I still felt a tiny bit jetlagged from last week at the start of it :)
14:33 lichtkind ah
14:33 TimToady must be nice to have something to talk about
14:33 TimToady I get to talk about how screwed up my summer was :)
14:34 lichtkind i wish i could make it to slazburg
14:34 lichtkind but i did it once to miss a whole week and it took me š weeks to catch up
14:34 lichtkind i mean 3 still had czech keyboard
14:34 jnthn no šit!
14:35 cognome joined #perl6
14:35 lichtkind haha
14:35 lichtkind jnthn: but you didnt looked reall bad in sofia :)
14:36 jnthn Well, no, I'd had some relatively quiet weeks leading up to it :)
14:36 jnthn I mean, all I did was write a profiler.
14:36 jnthn And drink ale.
14:36 jnthn Quite easy life. :)
14:37 lichtkind šit which reminds me i should learn fo the exam tomorrow :)
14:37 gtodd maybe one of the big YAPC's should have a BoF or community event on "Travel and Productivity Tips"
14:37 lichtkind definite
14:37 gtodd "How to avoid burnout while travelling the world, raising your kids and writing massive amounts of code ..."
14:38 TimToady .oO("Are we there yet, Daddy, are we there yet?")
14:38 lichtkind jnthn: and please tell me when we start build gui on perl six
14:38 gtodd hahah
14:39 * jnthn doesn't yet have any kids to raise, so has a little less to juggle. :)
14:42 jnthn lichtkind: On GUI stuff, see the GTK::Simple stuff I hacked up on a train, then timotimo++ (and I think others) have been working on :)
14:45 lichtkind ah which reminds me that i have a panda problems
14:45 * Ven explain TimToady's sample to some people...
14:45 timotimo hi, i'm doing GTK stuff, yes
14:45 Ven m: my %h; my $a = 'a.b.c'; say %h{||$a.split('.')}; say %h.perl
14:45 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Variable '&prefix:<|>' is not declared�at /tmp/WVfbLzuEau:1�------> [32mmy %h; my $a = 'a.b.c'; say %h{|[33m�[31m|$a.split('.')}; say %h.perl[0m�Variable '&prefix:<|>' is not declared�at /tmp/WVfbLzuEau:1�--…»
14:46 itz salzburg is warm
14:46 moritz Ven: just one |
14:46 Ven we don't have ||, I guess :). Not even sure it should work ehre tho
14:46 moritz m: my %h; my $a = 'a.b.c'; say %h{|$a.split('.')}; say %h.perl
14:46 Ven moritz: no. one | is "," - two is ";"
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/frxEcekfmi�Variable '&prefix:<|>' is not declared�at /tmp/frxEcekfmi:1�------> [32mmy %h; my $a = 'a.b.c'; say %h{[33m�[31m|$a.split('.')}; say %h.perl[0m�»
14:46 moritz oh
14:46 moritz ok
14:46 Ven itz: are you in salzburg :)?
14:46 virtualsue joined #perl6
14:47 itz yes with virtualsue on the slowest hotel wifi in austria
14:47 Ven itz: ah, nice. would you be up for meeting up tomorrow around 4pm?
14:47 Ven erm, I need to know when I can get into the hotel... Need timotimo or lizmat
14:48 timotimo well, that's a good question
14:48 timotimo i'm the person they're expecting
14:48 Ven they are :P
14:48 timotimo oh holy crap
14:48 timotimo jnthn: that helped!
14:49 timotimo Ven: maybe i should shoot them a mail or contact them via booking that my roomie is going to arrive quite a bit earlier
14:49 Ven timotimo: I'd appreciate it :)
14:49 Ven even more so that I don't speak german.
14:49 Ven I do intend to take a german dictionary, though :P
14:49 itz ven: probably doing tourist things tomorrow and not sure what our plans are
14:49 * Ven has been learning some vocabulary... Not to much extent or success
14:49 virtualsue joined #perl6
14:50 timotimo that'll be fine
14:50 itz ven: but my email is steve.mynott@gmail.com and you can contact me tomorrow and I'll read on my phone
14:51 jnthn timotimo: yay
14:51 jnthn aww, one of my students left their brolley behind...
14:52 dalek rakudo-star-daily: d70a24a | coke++ | log/MoarVM-version.log:
14:52 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
14:52 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/d70a24a29c
14:52 dalek perl6-roast-data: 9d12f67 | coke++ | / (4 files):
14:52 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
14:52 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/9d12f67dac
14:52 timotimo Ven: Ven i think i'll need to know your full name
14:52 jnthn anyways, I should probably go find my train, and maybe pick up some food and a pint on the way...
14:52 lichtkind Sub cwd (from GLOBAL) called at:
14:52 lichtkind /home/lichtkind/code/perl/six/panda/lib/Panda.pm, line 82
14:52 lichtkind Please use $*CWD instead.
14:52 jnthn probably bbiab, if the train wifi works... :)
14:52 lichtkind liz broke panda
14:52 timotimo jnthn: in any case, i wish you good travels!
14:52 timotimo lichtkind: did you make extra sure to pull in the panda repository?
14:52 jnthn timotimo: Thanks! :)
14:52 gtodd cd ~/src/rakudo ; git pull ;  "Already up-to-date. Everyone is drinking beer in Austria so be patient"
14:52 jnthn &
14:53 Ven timotimo: ah, yes, indeed. that might be desirabe...
14:53 timotimo :)
14:53 Ven .oO( better cancel my trip! )
14:55 gtodd left #perl6
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14:55 colomon joined #perl6
14:56 lichtkind timotimo argh
14:56 pyrimidine lichtkind: panda works for me with latest nom.  just gives some deprecation warnings
14:57 timotimo lichtkind: i made that same mistake quite often recently :)
14:57 lichtkind it does
14:58 lichtkind installing gtk simple right now
15:00 dalek gtk-simple: 9618975 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | lib/GTK/ (2 files):
15:00 dalek gtk-simple: add a bit of GDK stuff
15:00 dalek gtk-simple:
15:00 dalek gtk-simple: allows the user to enable events via event masks
15:00 dalek gtk-simple: and then you can subscribe to an event supply via the
15:00 dalek gtk-simple: signal_supply method of GTK::Widget
15:00 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/96189753ad
15:00 timotimo lichtkind: if you re-install now, you can get this commit as well -^
15:02 lichtkind i did by accisdent because i missed the dev libs for gtk
15:02 pyrimidine just curious, but how are reports for http://host08.perl6.com:8080/report being generated?
15:02 pyrimidine (or more specifically, how do I test different stages for my project?)
15:03 moritz pyrimidine: there's a project called emmentaler which creates the smoke reports
15:03 moritz https://github.com/tadzik/emmentaler
15:04 moritz nneds panda, iirc
15:04 pyrimidine moritz: thanks!
15:04 timotimo you can test your project by just running "panda install ." inside the project's folder
15:05 pyrimidine timotimo: so there isn't a 'panda test' variant?
15:05 timotimo i think there's a binary "panda-tester" or something
15:05 timotimo otherwise, you can use "prove" directly (or via the simpler route which used to be ufo, but i'm not sure if ufo works 100% at the moment)
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15:07 pyrimidine timotimo: ok. 'prove' works fine but it's build that's having issues (BioPerl6)
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16:22 tony-o how often does panda update its module listing?
16:22 guru joined #perl6
16:24 BSc_tadzik you have to do that manually
16:24 BSc_tadzik 'panda update'
16:26 tony-o ahh
16:26 BSc_tadzik ooh, pandapack
16:27 BSc_tadzik I should take a look at that
16:27 tony-o it's an empty shell right now, i'm writing a POD to Readme.md converter for it right now
16:28 tony-o the dependency on Pluggable doesn't let it install, hmm :/
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16:30 psch hi #perl6
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16:42 timotimo ... the readme of zavolaj still claims arrays of structs are NYI ...
16:42 jnthn that's LTA...
16:42 * jnthn waves from the train
16:43 timotimo :)
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16:51 * BSc_tadzik waves his fabolous hair
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16:55 nwc10 jnthn: train all the way?
16:56 nwc10 what's the best way to get a message to lizmat?
16:56 xenowoolfy Just type now, lizmat is reading :-)
16:57 ingy lizmat is in Ghent and a talk I believe
16:57 ingy s/and/at
16:58 ingy but yeah, she'll backlog
16:58 xenowoolfy Indeed, lizmat and i just finished dinner in Ghent. The lecture starts in an hour...
16:58 ingy ok :)
16:58 ingy I had dinner with her 24 hours ago
16:59 leont ingy: what a coincidence, me too! ;-)
16:59 * nwc10 PMs
17:00 ingy oh, xeno*woolfy*!
17:00 * ingy is slow
17:00 ingy leont: like my CSV grammar?
17:00 leont ingy: you're a brave man. Live demoing is dangerous, but live coding is really living on edge ;-)
17:00 nwc10 lizmat++ # APW talks will be recorded (and edited by a third party)
17:01 ingy :)
17:01 ingy https://github.com/ingydotnet/pegex-csv-pm/blob/master/share/csv.pgx
17:01 nwc10 FROGGS: so the good news is that the t-shirts have been delivered
17:01 jnthn nwc10: Train all the way home. Flight tomorrow morning to Salzburg, via Frankfurt.
17:01 nwc10 FROGGS: and the bad news is that they're at domm's flat, not pepl's
17:01 * xenowoolfy is very xeno
17:01 ingy leont: yeah I was in rough shape too :[
17:01 nwc10 so I get to collect them tomorrow morning - hand trolley and U2
17:02 nwc10 (domm is in California, just to add to the fun)
17:02 jnthn Oh my, my talk will be *recorded*? I had better behave! :P
17:02 xenowoolfy ncw10++  for orga skills and service
17:03 nwc10 jnthn: but it will not be live streamed, so you can try to outbid liz to ensure that the recording "failed" for some mysterious reason
17:03 nwc10 xenowoolfy: you have to thank nina, pepl and Roland too
17:03 ingy that link is "Pegex: Perl 6 Rules for the rest of us™
17:03 nwc10 or I do, on your behalf
17:03 nwc10 I still have to make slides for my talks
17:03 nwc10 (they got "written" about 3 weeks ago)
17:04 jnthn nwc10: You and me both!
17:04 xenowoolfy ncw10: nina++ pepl++ Roland++
17:04 xenowoolfy (Difficult to type on iphone)
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17:06 [Coke] Ghent? there's a Ghent about 30m from my house!
17:06 xenowoolfy Is that a Belgian Ghent?
17:07 xenowoolfy Locally it is spelled Gent
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17:09 [Coke] "The name has its origin in the Flemish city Ghent, in Flanders, Belgium."
17:11 dalek gtk-simple: c506039 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
17:11 dalek gtk-simple: remove debug output
17:11 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/c506039125
17:11 xenowoolfy Afk (off to lecture)
17:13 tony-o flanders has a cool bike race
17:14 vendethiel ingy: will you be at APW?
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17:15 vendethiel m: role Refl[::T, T]{}; if Refl[Int, Int].new { say "hey" } # how do you like your dependently typed perl6?
17:15 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«hey␤»
17:15 vendethiel m: role Refl[::T, T]{}; if Refl[Int, Bool].new { say "hey" } # how do you like your dependently typed perl6?
17:15 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«None of the parametric role variants for 'Refl' matched the arguments supplied.␤Cannot call ''; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu ::$?CLASS ::::?CLASS, Mu ::T, T)␤  in any specialize at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2214␤  in any specialize at src/gen…»
17:15 vendethiel :-)
17:16 ingy vendethiel!!!
17:17 vendethiel \o, ingy
17:17 ingy vendethiel: saadly no. I'm at c-base in Berlin
17:17 vendethiel ah; too bad :)
17:17 ingy I'll be in Berlin until next weds
17:17 ingy at least same TZ
17:18 ingy vendethiel: yeah, I really would have enjoyed meeting you
17:18 ingy sometime soon…
17:18 vendethiel ingy: ...and maybe everybody else!
17:18 ingy I've met everyone else!
17:18 vendethiel sorry then!
17:19 BSc_tadzik :D
17:22 tony-o BSc_tadzik: any idea why panda won't recognize & install 'Pluggable' as a dependency?  I get the error that 'Pluggable' is not available in the ecosystem but if I install Pluggable by itself, it works fine
17:22 BSc_tadzik tony-o: no typo?
17:23 tony-o doesn't appear to be
17:23 BSc_tadzik I'm not sure if we have this levenshtein hinting system for deps
17:23 tony-o https://github.com/tony-o/perl6-pandapack/blob/master/META.info
17:24 BSc_tadzik yeah, it all looks fine. Very weird
17:24 tony-o the Pluggable thing is a Role, not a class though, would that affect it?
17:24 BSc_tadzik I'll check here in a second
17:24 BSc_tadzik it should not
17:24 BSc_tadzik as far as panda is concerned it may be a JS file
17:25 dalek perl6-roast-data: 6570195 | coke++ | / (4 files):
17:25 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
17:25 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/6570195db1
17:27 [Coke] S32-io/spurt.rakudo.parrot
17:27 [Coke] ^^ two failures today
17:31 nine BSc_tadzik: congratulations! But isn't the BSc supposed to come after the name?
17:31 tony-o what is bsc
17:32 nine tony-o: Bachelor of Science
17:32 BSc_tadzik nine: dunno, in Polish it doesn't :)
17:32 tony-o ahh, congrats
17:32 BSc_tadzik it's also Dr House and not Hours DR :P
17:32 BSc_tadzik or something
17:35 jnthn m: say 'BSc_tadzik'.subst(/<:Ll>/, *.Str.succ)
17:35 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«BSd_tadzik␤»
17:35 tony-o now he is unix
17:35 jnthn ;)
17:35 nine BSc_tadzik: it's kind of complicated here. Most traditional titles and degrees go in front of the name but those newfangled Bachelors and Masters are postfixes.
17:36 jnthn Same in English, really. BSc comes last, but Dr comes first...
17:37 TimToady it's not at all complicated in America; we just omit 'em all, except for Dr :)
17:37 timotimo except for "House, MD"
17:38 tony-o oh, is that something that is said when addressing someone?
17:38 tony-o BSc ?
17:39 TimToady the only place you see those in America is if someone puts it on their door at their business
17:39 nine In Austria everyone and their pet has some title and likes to see it. Goes back to the monarchy when some wise leader discovered that it's much cheaper to give people titles instead of a pay raise...
17:39 tony-o i don't even call Dr 'Dr so and so'
17:40 tony-o interesting, i don't remember ever seeing it in germany
17:41 vendethiel http://helloworldquiz.com/#/game
17:41 nine Germans are much more relaxed with regard to titles. In Germany you should use the Dr. when addressing someone in a business letter but other titles or degrees are not as important.
17:41 vendethiel got 3k2. I don't know any weird or old languages...
17:42 tony-o good to know
17:43 psch https://gist.github.com/peschwa/f5aa95ef7e751572924e does this seem like a sensible way forward?
17:44 psch we don't have a mechanism in the parser for deprecated switches or "only once"
17:44 psch so i made that up...
17:44 psch where "the parser" is HLL::CommandLine::Parser
17:44 vendethiel actually, just got 4800
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17:52 liztormato [Coke]: Does that test fail by itself?
17:52 tony-o vendethiel: thank you for leading me to this: http://xeny.net/Homespring
17:53 liztormato It passed for me 2 days ago
17:53 [Coke] liztormato: yes.
17:53 vendethiel tony-o: np, I guess
17:53 [Coke] both tests get '' as a result.
17:54 liztormato Hmmm....  Well, can't look at it now ;-(
17:54 tony-o vendethiel: the hello world program for that 'lang' was ridiculous so i had to check it out
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17:58 vendethiel tony-o: yeah, I got that one
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18:08 FROGGS nwc10: hopefully they arrive :o)... though, I guess the shirts are the things that I won't miss that much compared to others
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18:17 nwc10 nine: I found a tombstone near here for some dude with 4 titles
18:17 nwc10 and I don't think that any of the set he'd collected were massively high powered
18:17 nwc10 offhand I can't remember them
18:18 nwc10 seems like the Austrians had it figured out well before modern coperates
18:18 nwc10 give someone their own office and a job title with "manager"
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18:19 jnthn nwc10: How many titles did you get yet? :)
18:20 jnthn Or is it not just a caes of, "live in Austria, magically get titles"? :)
18:20 nwc10 jnthn: well, the Austrians refuse to let you play with your furrien titles, unless you need them for your job
18:21 nwc10 this is probably in breach of EU treaties, as they clearly have different rules for Austrians vs non-Austrians
18:21 nwc10 but I'm not going to push it
18:22 jnthn :)
18:22 nwc10 FROGGS: t-shirts should arrive.
18:22 FROGGS awesome :o)
18:24 hagiri joined #perl6
18:24 carlin a divinity student named Fiddle, refused to take his degree
18:24 carlin he said it's bad enough being Fiddle without being Fiddle, D.D.
18:25 jnthn :D
18:25 jnthn I have a friend whose surname is Doctors. He got a PhD, thus now he's Doctor Doctors. :)
18:26 timotimo i can't find the place where i could submit a lightning talk :\
18:26 hagiri TimToady, hello man, how r u ?
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18:27 hagiri hello all, good morning or afternoon?
18:27 hagiri :D
18:28 nine Good evening, hagiri.
18:28 nwc10 we had lectures on Saturday morning at 9am from Dr D'eath. This guy, I believe: http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/people/p.d.death/
18:30 jnthn :D
18:33 tony-o jnthn: that's like the Catch 22 book, Major Major Major Major
18:33 jnthn timotimo: Aint' it the submit talk page
18:33 jnthn and then in duration you pick lightning?
18:35 timotimo i don't see the "submit talk" page anywhere :o
18:35 timotimo am i derping to the max here?
18:35 jnthn Are you lug in?
18:35 timotimo yup
18:36 timotimo maybe i'm just too late to the party
18:36 FROGGS nah
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18:37 hagiri nine, thanks man
18:37 hagiri =)
18:38 timotimo hello hagiri
18:41 nine Oh, seems like I got a couple of minutes to spare in my talk.
18:44 jnthn nine: I can always ask a hard question? :P
18:44 FROGGS "What is the opposite of a duck?"
18:44 FROGGS err no, damn
18:45 FROGGS "What is the difference between a duck?"
18:45 FROGGS (I know, I messed it up :/)
18:45 nine But...what _is_ the opposite of a duck?
18:45 jnthn Reliable method dispatch?
18:45 FROGGS nine: you have time to think about it until your talk starts :o)
18:46 nwc10 nine: you're allowed to run early
18:47 nine I will use at least some of the time just to speak slowlier
18:48 FROGGS nine: you could use different talking styles when it comes to P5 specifics or P6 specifics...
18:48 dwarring joined #perl6
18:48 FROGGS so you speak P5 stuff slowly and boring and the P6 stuff totally motivating :o)
18:48 FROGGS all of us should do that actually :D
18:50 vendethiel maybe I should register for a lightning talk
18:50 vendethiel something like "how to get into p6" just giving links for the tutorial, irc, faq, et al
18:50 FROGGS +1
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18:56 timotimo yays
18:57 tony-o m: say $*EXECUTABLE.WHAT, $*CWD.WHAT
18:57 camelia rakudo-moar 19d2de: OUTPUT«(IO::Path)(IO::Path)␤»
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19:02 dalek roast: c58e197 | usev6++ | S04-statements/for.t:
19:02 dalek roast: Add tests for RT #77738
19:02 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c58e1975f5
19:02 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=77738
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19:12 dalek roast: 054665c | (Pepe Schwarz)++ | S06-macros/unquoting.t:
19:12 dalek roast: Add test for RT #122746.
19:12 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/054665cfb7
19:12 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=122746
19:20 BSc_tadzik jnthn: hmm, weirdness :)
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19:32 BSc_tadzik tony-o: installing Pandapack works for me
19:33 pepl joined #perl6
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19:40 vendethiel oooh, scalaz's founder was kicked from scalaz.
19:40 vendethiel today is a great day
19:46 nine vendethiel: this is good why?
19:46 vendethiel because this guy was the biggest asshole ever. always insulting
19:48 amkrankruleuen joined #perl6
19:49 FROGGS well, there is some kernel hacker that might fit in that category too :o)
19:49 PerlJam FROGGS: that's just "opinionated" not "always insulting"
19:49 PerlJam FROGGS: but ... maybe "asshole" anyway  ;)
19:49 * geekosaur immediately thought djb or theo
19:50 FROGGS PerlJam: probably... thing is that one often only hears the bad stuff
19:52 nine After seeing what people do to Lennart Poettering, I don't give too much about negative comments about people.
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20:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 442a465 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
20:16 dalek rakudo/nom: Liberalize attribute-having.
20:16 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:16 dalek rakudo/nom: Make it so that custom declarators are allowed to have attributes to,
20:16 dalek rakudo/nom: and use the default Attribute class as a fallback.
20:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/442a465a94
20:23 timotimo what kinds of thing end in '-attr'?
20:25 itz „Larry Wall ist für Perl-Programmierer wie Steve Jobs für Apple-Fans“
20:25 jnthn timotimo: So far, always Attribute
20:25 timotimo mhm mhm
20:25 timotimo AFKbbl
20:25 jnthn timotimo: The idea was that different meta-objects might want to use a different meta-attribute
20:26 jnthn But...I'm really not sure %*HOW is the right hook to hang that off
20:26 timotimo ah, hmm
20:26 timotimo in any case, i'm intrigued by your talk title
20:26 timotimo and interested to find out how the recent EXPORTHOW work ties into that
20:27 jnthn me too ;)
20:27 timotimo oh, or i could just read the abstract
20:27 jnthn ooh, I think my train is about to get me home on time o.O
20:28 timotimo neato
20:28 timotimo in that case, gnite jnthn :)
20:28 * jnthn detrains
20:30 pepl itz: I guess the simplifications in content and language at the salzburg.at APW entry is systematic
20:31 TimToady FROGGS: obviously, one leg is both the same.
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20:32 azawawi hi
20:32 TimToady o/
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20:41 tony-o BSc_tadzik: panda runs 'perl6 -Irv' for tests?
20:41 BSc_tadzik tony-o: no, prove -e perl6
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20:47 tony-o weird, it's not picking up the ./lib folder
20:48 BSc_tadzik by default it won't
20:48 BSc_tadzik panda does make it work though :)
20:50 tony-o how would i test it?  locally i can do: prove -e 'perl6 -Ilib' t/
20:50 tony-o and get a success, if i do prove -e perl6, then i fail, and it fails with panda
20:52 BSc_tadzik huh
20:52 pepl TimToady: FYI: there will be parking space for a few cars for the APW - they will be sign-posted when coming in via Jakob-Haringer Straße
20:52 Hor|zon joined #perl6
20:52 BSc_tadzik tony-o: you could hack panda to make it print the commands it runs
20:52 azawawi any idea how to make panda retrieve the latest META.info of a Perl 6 module?
20:52 BSc_tadzik there will be one prefixed with PERL6LIB=... most likely
20:52 BSc_tadzik azawawi: 'panda update' should do it
20:53 azawawi cool thanks...
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21:05 tony-o prove -e /Users/tony/Downloads/rakudo/install/bin/perl6 -r t/
21:06 tony-o the error i get is could not find module and a list of @*INC, but it doesn't include the './lib' folder
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21:09 bartolin tony-o: I often just add "PERL6LIB=lib " at the beginning of the command line to include "./lib" for a single command
21:10 bartolin (though I don't know if that helps in this case)
21:10 azawawi http://feather.perl6.nl:3030/  # Farabi6 proof of concept Perl 6 editor... will break under pressure :)
21:11 * azawawi panda install Farabi6 # for a local installation
21:11 tony-o bartolin: that doesn't seem to affect @*INC at all
21:12 tony-o azawawi: ENV{FARABI6_UNSAFE} is not enabled
21:12 azawawi yeah i didnt enable it... panda install it locally and try it plz
21:13 azawawi it cant handle multiple connections well
21:14 bartolin tony-o: oh, you are executing prove. what's about "PERL5LIB=lib "?
21:15 tony-o still nada
21:15 tony-o feel like i'm missing something very obvious
21:16 timotimo azawawi: what syntax highlighting does that use?
21:16 azawawi timotimo: perl5+perl6 keywords workaround js mode
21:17 timotimo ah
21:17 timotimo having a ' as an apostrophe in a pod block makes it think the rest of the file is a single-quoted string %)
21:18 azawawi true it is a perl5 mode afterall
21:18 timotimo that's fair
21:19 azawawi i noticed finding files is so slow in perl6
21:20 timotimo aye, the 'Fetching $modulename" part of panda is painfully slow
21:21 azawawi enabled running code for a while
21:21 azawawi and then im going to turn it off :)
21:22 timotimo it needs to learn to interpret ANSI escape codes for colors in its output :)
21:22 azawawi sure :)
21:23 azawawi open a github issue please so i can remember
21:23 guru joined #perl6
21:23 timotimo will do
21:25 azawawi but overall im impressed with the MoarVM stability
21:25 Alula joined #perl6
21:25 azawawi it is way better than before
21:26 azawawi timotimo: try Alt-F11 for full screen editing
21:33 * azawawi &
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21:42 carlin tony-o: if you have panda in your path you should be able to run `panda-test`
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21:59 timotimo jnthn: your g_idle_add has "returns int32", but in the docs it says it actually returns a guint; we may want to correct this
22:00 dalek roast: e8fd9ec | usev6++ | S02-types/set.t:
22:00 dalek roast: Add tests for RT #116096
22:00 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e8fd9ec55d
22:00 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=116096
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22:07 dalek gtk-simple: 5e263c1 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
22:07 dalek gtk-simple: expose the timeout function of gtk's event loop
22:07 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/commit/5e263c1dfb
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22:16 jdv79 http://nopaste.info/a3cb6f413c.html seems to disagree with S07 - why?
22:16 tony-o gonna rebuild panda .. panda-test succeseds but panda install fails
22:17 timotimo how does it disagree?
22:18 jdv79 i thought from the comment in S07 it would return (10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15..50)
22:18 jdv79 oh, right.  seems fine i guess.
22:19 jdv79 cool
22:22 timotimo :)
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22:38 timotimo m: my $a = 1; my $b = 2; say $a + $b i
22:38 timotimo m: my $a = 1; my $b = 2; say $a + $b * i
22:38 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/AE2la6JSsqâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/AE2la6JSsq:1â�¤------> [32mmy $a = 1; my $b = 2; say $a + $b [33mâ��[31mi[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤       …»
22:38 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«1+2i␤»
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23:07 tony-o moar doesnt build now either ..
23:08 tony-o Stage parse      : moar(15135,0x7fff78887310) malloc: *** error for object 0x7ff91f1ed290: pointer being freed was not allocated
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23:22 lizmat moar build failure confirmed, reconfiguring seeing if that hekps
23:22 lizmat helps
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23:40 BenGoldberg Here's an interesting possible speedup... compare:
23:40 BenGoldberg m: sub foo ($a) { $a+1 }; my $start = now; foo(42) for 1..1e6; say now - $start;
23:41 BenGoldberg m: sub foo ($a is rw) { $a+1 }; my $start = now; foo(42) for 1..1e6; say now - $start;
23:41 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«9.74894771␤»
23:41 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«9.00733102␤»
23:42 BenGoldberg Suppose we can detect a *lack* of assignments to a container; if there's no chance of the contents of the container being mutated, generate the same code as if "is rw" had been there.
23:53 sivoais joined #perl6
23:54 * lizmat nukes the install directory and starts building again just before hitting the sack
23:55 lizmat starting to wonder whether we might be missing a moar / nqp revision bump
23:59 lizmat borkedness of rakudo on moar confirmed after a complete rebuild

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