Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-10-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 lizmat .tell jnthn apperently your commit 442a465a947fdad4d4d has borked rakudo build on at least OS X
00:00 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
00:00 lizmat Stage start      :   0.000
00:00 lizmat Stage parse      : moar(46847,0x7fff7c1a8310) malloc: *** error for object 0x7f94858bfda0: pointer being freed was not allocated
00:00 lizmat *** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug
00:00 lizmat make: *** [CORE.setting.moarvm] Abort trap: 6
00:01 * lizmat catches some sleep &
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00:29 [Coke] I have a build directory for rakudo that I've used to install nqp, moar, perl6-m
00:30 [Coke] How can I force a rebuild of nqp if the installed nqp is recent enough.
00:44 BenGoldberg j: say 'alive'; # what's wrong with jakudo?
00:44 camelia rakudo-jvm 442a46: OUTPUT«Can't call method "syswrite" on an undefined value at /home/p6eval/jvm-rakudo/eval-client.pl line 32.␤»
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04:54 tony-o [Coke]: i believe moving the directory nqp builds in would let you rebuild nqp
04:55 tony-o rakudo/nqp iirc
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05:10 FROGGS_ TimToady: in German I'd say: "Der Vergleich hinkt." :o)
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06:00 FROGGS[mobile] BenGoldberg: something about the JVM or environment camelia is running on
06:02 leont My grammar works in the debugger, but not outside of it…
06:02 leont Debugging this is difficult :-s
06:03 nwc10 leont: are you in the right place to catch your ride?
06:04 leont I'm on the train :-)
06:04 nwc10 excellent
06:05 FROGGS[mobile] leont: and it just does not match outside of the debugger?
06:05 lizmat leont++  :-)
06:05 * nwc10 should set off
06:05 FROGGS[mobile] do I also get karma for sitting in a train? :o)
06:05 leont Almost halfway to lizmat and woolfy
06:06 nwc10 &
06:08 leont FROGGS[mobile]: nope. See https://github.com/Leont/toml6
06:08 FROGGS[mobile] also, I've got three accu packs and should have a power socket in the next train... hell am I prepared *g*
06:09 FROGGS[mobile] leont: and subparse also does not match?
06:11 leont Doesn't make a difference
06:11 FROGGS[mobile] leont: I can look at it in about 30min, but I'd need a test file
06:12 leont Oh, right. I forgot I hadn't pushed that! :-o
06:21 leont joined #perl6
06:23 leont (train internet)--
06:23 leont A test is pushed now
06:24 leont It seems the datetime rule is the issue, probably because it prefix-overlaps with number
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06:24 leont Getting rid of the datetime in the example makes it pass again.
06:27 FROGGS[mobile] ohh, that's a start
06:28 FROGGS[mobile] I guess you want some look-ahead then
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06:30 leont I have some lookahead, but I'm not sure it's enough
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06:31 lizmat .tell jnthn your last patch seems without problems on jvm and parrot
06:31 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
06:36 [Tux] FYI: Metadata Vocabulary for Tabular Data: http://www.w3.org/TR/tabular-metadata/
06:37 FROGGS[mobile] leont: you can additionally do: <!datetime> as the first thing in value:sym<number>
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06:38 lizmat commute commences&
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06:51 leont This gets stranger
06:51 leont Adding an empty code block fixes it too
06:51 leont Feels like some kind of optimization bug to me
06:52 moritz en empty code block terminates LTM
06:54 leont LTM should pick datetime over number, so I don't understand
06:58 FROGGS leont: are you sure?
06:59 FROGGS in the number token you have literals at the beginning, in datetime you only have character classes
06:59 FROGGS LTM prefers literals over cclasses
07:00 leont & # train switchover
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07:06 moritz if the length is the same, yes
07:08 FROGGS in this case here the '-'? probably matters most I think
07:12 * jnthn is at CPH, sipping coffee and waiting for his flight
07:12 yoleaux 00:00Z <lizmat> jnthn: apperently your commit 442a465a947fdad4d4d has borked rakudo build on at least OS X
07:12 yoleaux 06:31Z <lizmat> jnthn: your last patch seems without problems on jvm and parrot
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07:13 FROGGS jnthn: I guess you wanna grab lizmat laptop this evening? :o)
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07:14 jnthn .tell lizmat well, good timing...I've not had thse happen on Windows at all, and so haven't had chance to hunt the thing down yet...provided there's decent debugging stuff on your laptop I might finally stand a chance :)
07:14 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
07:15 jnthn Linux doesn't seem to be so sensitive to whatever it is either...
07:15 FROGGS true
07:15 * jnthn should get some OSX box some day...
07:15 FROGGS jnthn: but other ppl reported it too
07:15 jnthn FROGGS: on OSX? Yes.
07:15 FROGGS yeah, colomon for example
07:15 jnthn FROGGS: But lizmat will be in the same place as me AND have an OSX machine that exhibits the issue :)
07:16 FROGGS jnthn: I hope that I get also these results on my PowerPC hardware, provided I can get my hand on an OS X 10.4.11
07:16 FROGGS all true :o)
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07:23 * jnthn steadily wakes up
07:23 jnthn By the time I'm awake enough to do anything it'll be boarding time...
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07:33 timotimo o/
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07:36 jnthn o/ timotimo
07:37 timotimo in my sleepy head while waking up i thought about the interaction of shaped arrays and hyper operators
07:38 jnthn I just thought "oh yeah, I should go to the airport like now" :)
07:38 * jnthn should probably go find his gate... :)
07:38 jnthn &
07:38 woolfy On our way to Salzburg in 10...  9...  8...  (minutes)
07:39 woolfy jnthn: good flight!
07:39 woolfy exit
07:39 timotimo aye, good flight!
07:39 woolfy left #perl6
07:39 timotimo and good drive, woolfy and lizmat
07:39 timotimo (i know for sure part of it will be good, because i'll be on board! :P )
07:40 azawawi hi everyone
07:40 moritz hi all
07:40 FROGGS hi
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07:42 timotimo ohai
07:43 azawawi moritz: is there a way to get a documentation index of all keywords that p6doc knows about?
07:43 azawawi moritz: like p6doc --list-keywords or something
07:43 azawawi moritz: im integrating p6doc with farabi6
07:43 moritz azawawi: not that I'm aware of
07:43 TimToady m: my $a = 1; my $b = 2; say $a + $b\i
07:43 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«1+2i␤»
07:44 TimToady timotimo: looking for that ^^ maybe?
07:44 timotimo oh, cute
07:45 TimToady and to the first approximation, hypers on shaped arrays can ignore the shape, except to reproduce the shape on the result end
07:45 TimToady but the distribution of the operations can view the elements as flat
07:45 timotimo right, the flatness makes it quite a bit less complicated i think
07:46 TimToady as long as none of the dimensions are extensible
07:46 TimToady then we're back to pointerland
07:46 timotimo yesterday i had code like "my @yoffs = ((100, 80, 45, 15) >>*>> nqp::time_n()) >>->> H;" or something similar
07:46 timotimo it was oodles of times slower than the same code with an explicit for loop over that parcel
07:48 timotimo and i'm just saying: in this particular case, we could have done much better - with a bunch of intelligence in place, yeah, but still ...
07:49 TimToady I tend to use X* and X- in those cases
07:49 timotimo ah, that's a good point
07:50 TimToady then you can at least lose the parens around the list
07:50 TimToady not that it would necessarily run any faster
07:50 timotimo i could probably check the performance of that
07:51 TimToady any metaop will have some setup and teardown overhead
07:51 FROGGS and that won't go away once we multi-thread these
07:52 TimToady in fact, deciding not to multithread will also be an overhead :)
07:52 FROGGS true :o)
07:52 timotimo hopefully we'll be able to decide those things at something similar to "spesh time" in many cases
07:54 TimToady most of the GLR can be summarized as "wait till you have a known source and destination before you decide how to do it"
07:55 timotimo i'd like to TL;DR that as "procrastinate! it's more efficient!"
07:55 FROGGS yeah
07:55 TimToady including such information as how long the list is known to be (finite or infinite too)
07:56 * TimToady is developing a crossbar of how various source and dest policies interact
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08:02 TimToady probably the src will specify a list of acceptable policies in order of preference, and the dest will then pick one or more to negotiate with its downstream dest
08:02 TimToady such that you cannot try to feed an infinite list to an "all" policy, even indirectly
08:05 TimToady this relates to jdv79++'s question about ranges as well
08:06 TimToady currently a range will autobatch itself because that's much more efficient on average than doing the lazy range
08:07 timotimo yeah, no matter how small the overhead is, simply generating "the next number" is probably always going to be darn cheap
08:07 TimToady my current list api poliices are: lazy, batch, silo, all, sink, hyper and race
08:08 TimToady the difference betwen batch and silo basically being sync vs async
08:10 timotimo so silo behaves a bit like CSP?
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08:10 TimToady I think of it as a circular buffer with both a reader and a writer
08:11 timotimo that's fair
08:11 TimToady whereas with batch, it's "please produce as many as you can, up to N, then get back to me"
08:12 TimToady either of batch or silo could have slow-start semantics too, adjusting the batch size as we know more about the data stream
08:13 TimToady but hopefully, the GLR will also make pure lazy faster as well, since it can reduce to function calls just returning the next value, with no buffering overhead
08:14 TimToady assuming we generate functions with sufficient state to track the interation of whatever we're iterating
08:14 timotimo sounds just a tiny bit over-engineered :P
08:14 TimToady well, but once we've got functions rather than methods, we get more chance of speshing, I suspect
08:15 TimToady and inlining
08:15 TimToady mostly, the GLR is trying to get rid of asking the same question over and over
08:16 TimToady or from a different angle, hoisting the negotiation out of the datastream, and making .gimme and .reify go away
08:16 timotimo that does sound quite good.
08:17 dalek gtk-simple: 8fd7a35 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
08:17 dalek gtk-simple: now the timeout actually works
08:17 dalek gtk-simple:
08:17 dalek gtk-simple: and it gives both the t and dt.
08:17 dalek gtk-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/gt​k-simple/commit/8fd7a35341
08:18 FROGGS ohh, getting rid of .gimme and .reify sounds very nice, these were quite expensive in the few profiles I've seen
08:18 TimToady and basically trying to get the OO overhead out of data streaming
08:19 TimToady figuring out where we can cheat on immutable iterators is also a big part of it
08:20 TimToady but that takes src/dest knowledge, again
08:26 nwc10 FROGGS: The t-shirts have reached the geizhals office.
08:26 FROGGS \o/
08:29 timotimo r: my num $foo = 0; # imo this should work just fine
08:29 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«This type cannot unbox to a native number␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
08:29 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 442a46: ( no output )
08:29 timotimo well, it does on parrot
08:29 timotimo i can look into that. maybe on the car ride if we get into a traffic jam and the car moves slow enough for me to not get sick :|
08:30 TimToady r: my num $foo = "foo"
08:30 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«This type cannot unbox to a native number␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
08:30 camelia ..rakudo-parrot 442a46: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏foo' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in method Num at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:13608␤  in method Num at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:6103␤  in any  at gen/parrot/BOOTSTRAP.nq…»
08:30 timotimo seems like we're not even trying
08:31 TimToady arguably, natives are already coercion types, where the coercion in question is unboxing
08:32 TimToady but ought to be a little broader than that, maybe
08:33 TimToady at mininum, we ought to be able to say my num() $foo = 0
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08:43 timotimo new troll strategy: pass a tr or s regex to functions that expect some kind of smart matcher ...
08:44 timotimo m: my @test = <hello goodbye>; say @test.grep(tr/e/a/); say @test;
08:44 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«␤hello goodbye␤»
08:45 timotimo m: my @test = <hello goodbye>; say @test.grep(s/e/a/); say @test;
08:45 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«␤hello goodbye␤»
08:45 timotimo fair enough.
08:49 psch joined #perl6
08:50 psch hi #perl6
08:51 timotimo hey peə
08:51 kurahaupo joined #perl6
08:51 psch i recognize that character! timotimo o/
08:52 psch fwiw, 'grep: 1' on a line alone segfaults my repl
08:54 FROGGS psch: also 'FOO: 1' ?
08:54 psch FROGGS: yup
08:54 psch this is on moar
08:54 FROGGS then maybe labels are not repl compatible?
08:55 FROGGS I can't test that right now... have no perl6-m here
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08:55 timotimo it does the same thing on my machine fwiw
08:55 bartolin there is an old ticket (RT #116695) describing that .delete (now :delete) on the last element of an array removed preceding elements which where "manually" set to Any. lizmat++ explained that setting an array element to Any is not the same as deleting an element. would you say that the following code demonstrates the current (and expected) behaviour in a good way? (the Any in $a[1] was created by autovivification and did not 'exist', so it gets dele
08:55 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=116695
08:55 timotimo could it be it's trying to figure out the $?FILE and explodes?
08:55 bartolin m: my $a; $a[0,2]=(Any,"foo"); say $a; my $e; for ^$a.elems { $e[$_] = $a[$_] :exists }; say $e; say "... deleting"; $a[2] :delete; say $a; say $a[0] :exists;
08:55 camelia rakudo-moar 442a46: OUTPUT«(Any) (Any) foo␤True False True␤... deleting␤(Any)␤True␤»
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08:55 timotimo nope, that works fine
08:56 brrt \o
08:56 brrt bugs?
08:57 FROGGS no, only people here
08:57 FROGGS timotimo: it could very well be related to $?FILES
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08:59 timotimo no rabbits here
09:05 brrt any rodents then?
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09:18 TimToady well, elephant shrews are really elephants, not rodents
09:19 brrt very true
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09:22 laben hello #perl6, has APW begun?
09:23 nwc10 laben: no, schedule starts at 10:00 CEST tomorrow
09:23 nwc10 the talks will be recorded, but not live streamed
09:23 laben oh, right it was 10/10
09:24 TimToady CEST la vie
09:26 laben can someone try to test XML::Query? i would like to know if it's me or the module that fail
09:29 dalek rakudo/nom: d3a2841 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Label.pm:
09:29 dalek rakudo/nom: fix usage of Labels in REPL, discovered by psch++
09:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d3a28417f2
09:30 FROGGS timotimo++ # forgot to mention that
09:30 timotimo ah, not bad :)
09:31 timotimo very good "report to fix" time on that one, FROGGS++
09:32 TimToady .oO(Elephants Of Unusual Size)
09:33 FROGGS ohh, U.S. is actually for "Unusual Size"?
09:33 BSc_tadzik :D
09:33 FROGGS that would explain my GSoC shirt :o)
09:33 timotimo :D
09:33 timotimo mine too!
09:34 FROGGS surely, it has an "L" in it, but I meant "large", not "LARGE!!"
09:34 timotimo if i had super low hanging pants to go with that shirt, that would be another story %)
09:34 FROGGS Low Hanging Pants.... I love it :o)
09:34 BSc_tadzik yeah, my gsoc t-skirt is huge too
09:35 timotimo what about your BSc t-shirt?
09:35 moritz laben: what do you mean by "test"? Run the unit tests?
09:35 moritz t/basic.t .. Default constructor for 'Query' only takes named arguments
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09:35 laben morits: yep, that's it
09:36 timotimo that doesn't seem like something that'd be a regression from changes in rakudo
09:36 laben moritz: i too get that, but i was warrying since tony-o said he didn't get that error
09:36 moritz laben: I just did a very fresh rakudo build, bootstrapped panda, and got that error too
09:36 moritz laben: so not just you
09:36 laben timotimo: i don't think it's recent, much more probably it's a change in syntax or semantic some time ago
09:37 timotimo mhm
09:37 timotimo we do have a smoker now, but we're not watching the results closely enough ...
09:37 laben i was just trying to understand why did it give that error in particular and how to fix it
09:37 laben but i still cannot make it out
09:38 timotimo someone was XML::Query.new(1, 2, 3)
09:38 timotimo but it should have been XML::Query.new(:foo(1), :bar(2), :baz(3))
09:39 laben i tried changing the method new in Query.pm6 but to no avail
09:40 timotimo oh, it has a new method already?
09:40 timotimo something ends up calling "right past" that constructor
09:41 laben timotimo: yes and it's strange since it's basically new ($args) { self.new(:$args)} which doesn't make much sense to me
09:41 timotimo is that a multi method new?
09:41 laben i changed that to new ($args) {self.bless(...)}
09:42 laben timotimo: yes
09:42 timotimo in that case, it must be ignoring that particular candidate
09:42 timotimo try putting a "say" in front
09:42 timotimo i suspect that say wouldn't get triggered
09:42 laben in front of what?
09:43 timotimo at the very beginning of the method new you changed
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09:43 timotimo brrt: do the jit ops "usecapture" and "savecapture" as well as "capturehasnameds" and "captureposelems" seem tricky to jit? or are they due for a rewrite when the args passing changes happen?
09:43 brrt lemmesee
09:44 timotimo interestingly, my heavily NativeCall using program here only bails 3x on nativecallinvoke
09:44 timotimo perhaps that means many of the postcircumfix:<( )> are inlined into a big frame that happen to abort earlier due to whatever
09:45 brrt usecapture is easy, savecapture can be functified
09:46 timotimo do we have a jit argument shorthand constant thingie for "pass the current capture here" for our "emit c function call" thingie?
09:46 brrt .. no
09:46 timotimo do we need one?
09:47 brrt not that i can tell
09:48 timotimo cool
09:48 timotimo a tiny something for the hackathon, then :)
09:49 timotimo hm, also a few bails on getobjsc, that should be jittable easily
09:49 timotimo just look into the header, where the pointer to the sc is stored, right?
09:49 laben timotimo: there is something strange going on there
09:50 timotimo or use MVM_sc_get_obj_sc as a C function
09:50 timotimo ah, needs to be that C function, as it may want to demand the object to be deserialized first
09:51 timotimo i'm not sure we can just say "at spesh time, that code has been run often enough that that doesn't matter any more!"
09:51 brrt i'll go get lunch now :-)
09:51 timotimo good lunch!
09:52 laben timotimo: without modifying anything, the result changes if i use the compiled version in blib/lib or the textual version in lib
09:52 laben like this, "env PERL6LIB=lib perl6 t/basic.t" works, but "env PERL6LIB=blib/lib perl6 t/basic.t" doesn't
09:53 brrt timotimo: pushed
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10:30 timotimo i'm getting excited :3
10:31 FROGGS about what? :o)
10:31 timotimo i'm going to APW!
10:32 FROGGS and you are with awesome ppl in a car
10:32 timotimo aye
10:32 timotimo it kind of sounded like there'd be another person besides me in that car with liz and woolfy
10:32 timotimo is that right?
10:32 FROGGS leont, aye
10:32 timotimo cool
10:32 FROGGS yepp
10:33 FROGGS ohh damn...
10:33 FROGGS I wanted to take a book with me so that TimToady could sign it :/
10:34 timotimo i don't have any perl-related books :S
10:34 FROGGS GET OUTTA HERE! *g*
10:36 FROGGS I have one or two books, but just skimmed them
10:36 timotimo perhaps at some point i could write a perl-related book :P
10:36 FROGGS do you think you could be/are a good writer?
10:36 FROGGS I know that I'm not
10:37 timotimo i don't think i could :\
10:38 FROGGS well, I'm not sad about it... I know where my strengths are... and where my strengths are not that well distributed
10:39 FROGGS so I try to do the things I can do :o)
10:39 FROGGS these are usually the things that are fun anyway
10:40 FROGGS though, I enjoyed writing the stubs for the story of my game... but that was more about writing down thoughts instead of writing a proper story
10:41 FROGGS what do I do for the next four hours train? I should probably read about ::, :::, cut and commit
10:43 FROGGS ewww, or I don't
10:43 timotimo what's ewww about that? :(
10:43 FROGGS "Evaluating a triple colon throws away all saved choice points since
10:43 FROGGS the current regex was entered.  Backtracking to (or past) this point
10:43 FROGGS will fail the rule outright (no matter where in the regex it occurs)"
10:44 FROGGS like this throw away thing... how do I do that?
10:44 timotimo empty the backtrack stack of all the cursors or something ... no clue :\
10:44 timotimo oh, "since the current regex was entered"
10:44 timotimo that makes it more doable
10:45 FROGGS so ::: is commit?
10:45 FROGGS ahh, kinda
10:50 FROGGS <cut> might be the one that is the easiest of that bunch
10:50 timotimo could be, yeah
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10:53 FROGGS hmmmm, STD's moreinfo does not look that hard at a first glance
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10:58 timotimo i don't know what that is :S
10:58 FROGGS the hook that will be called when the grammar likes to have more input :o)
10:59 FROGGS like, you write a few lines in a repl and it will trigger at the final }
10:59 FROGGS (or so)
10:59 FROGGS so we would eval when that happens, and not per line as we do
11:02 timotimo ah
11:02 FROGGS err, s/moreinfo/moreinput/, sorry
11:02 timotimo well, i tried to port that and it turned out to not work, but that was long long ago
11:03 FROGGS yeah, many things have changes
11:03 FROGGS changed*
11:04 prevost joined #perl6
11:04 timotimo OK, i should get off IRC and make sure i'm ready to go
11:05 FROGGS see you in a bit :o)
11:05 timotimo "bit" :\
11:05 timotimo looking forward to it :)
11:06 FROGGS yay, I can leave that train in less then two hours /o/
11:36 sqirrel joined #perl6
11:40 timotimo yay
11:40 timotimo and I will get into the car in five minutes
11:41 FROGGS :o)
11:42 timotimo does cut look like something you can work out? or perhaps morelines ?
11:42 FROGGS I'm working on moreinput right now
11:43 scumdog1 joined #perl6
11:44 timotimo cool
11:45 FROGGS I currently try to tweak it so that it fetches more input in rule ws (by doing an interactive readline), and in rule ENDSTMT I'm going to evaluate the code we got
11:45 FROGGS so that we eval multiline stuff when we hit an ENDSTMT only
11:48 moritz attention, <ws> is *very* performance sensitive
11:48 FROGGS I know :o)
11:49 ecocode joined #perl6
11:50 FROGGS stage parse has not changed yet, so that is a not too bad indication
11:55 ivanshmakov joined #perl6
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11:57 pepl nine: location for pre-conf dinner has changed to Imlauer/Stiegl Bräu (near central station)
12:11 pepl joined #perl6
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12:29 peteretep Anyone feel they have any particular insight as to why CPAN6 stalled?
12:29 [Coke] tony-o: I removed nqp. nope. it's checking the -installed- copy, not hte build copy.
12:31 FROGGS joined #perl6
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12:57 lichtkind feel like hulk hogan
12:58 FROGGS[mobile] why?
12:58 lichtkind just ment out of oral exam: 1,0 :)
12:58 lichtkind went
12:58 FROGGS joined #perl6
12:58 BSc_tadzik is 1.0 the highest you can get? :)
12:58 lichtkind yes
12:58 BSc_tadzik I went out with 5.0 from my defense :P
12:58 BSc_tadzik congratulations :)
12:59 FROGGS[mobile] O.o
12:59 lichtkind thanks :) but it was a 5 point course not a final one :)
12:59 FROGGS[mobile] wow, congrats
13:00 FROGGS yay, I'm sitting in the last train for today
13:00 lichtkind to austria? , thanks man
13:00 FROGGS to Salzburg, aye
13:00 Ulti BSc_tadzik congrats :3 I'm now PhD_Ulti too, picked up my hardbound thesis just now! .o/
13:01 BSc_tadzik Ulti: yay, awesome :)
13:01 FROGGS damn, what's happening here? :D
13:01 Ulti haha
13:01 BSc_tadzik FROGGS: education!
13:01 FROGGS Ulti: congratulations!
13:01 FROGGS BSc_tadzik: I am just employed :/
13:01 Ulti thanks, it was a PhD mostly in Perl 5 hacking though :3
13:01 lichtkind yea this what i plan too
13:01 Ulti I'll try for the nobel in Perl 6 :P
13:01 BSc_tadzik my project was also Perl
13:01 lichtkind my thesis will be a perl 5 program
13:01 BSc_tadzik I promised to opensource it :)
13:01 colomon lichtkind++ BSc_tadzik++
13:02 FROGGS hehe, nice
13:02 lichtkind for linguists and other social studies :)
13:02 Ulti oh I notice you already had the title prefix/postfix debate
13:03 lichtkind what you mean?
13:03 cognome joined #perl6
13:03 FROGGS there was a discussion about titles yesterday
13:03 Ulti in the UK degree letters go after your name
13:04 lichtkind my most import title i would consider is DJ :)
13:04 Ulti postfix it to be edgy
13:04 scumdog1 Can I ask why
13:04 scumdog1 sub bar(*@args) { @args.elems.say; }; bar(1, Nil, 3); # => 2
13:04 scumdog1 says 2 and not 3?
13:05 lichtkind but my favorite dj's dont have it in their names :)
13:05 FROGGS scumdog1: because Nil was meant to vanish in lists
13:05 FROGGS scumdog1: but it is supposed not to anymore, so that needs to be fixed
13:06 FROGGS scumdog1: this will one of the topics of the next days actually
13:06 FROGGS (not directly fixing it, but discussing the implementation)
13:07 scumdog1 thankyou, so
13:07 scumdog1 sub bar2(|) { nqp::elems(nqp::p6argvmarray()).say; }; bar2(1, Nil, 3); # => 3
13:07 scumdog1 is the best way for now?
13:07 FROGGS scumdog1: probably, yeah
13:07 * jnthn waves from Salzburg
13:08 * FROGGS waves from Munich
13:08 guru joined #perl6
13:09 FROGGS jnthn: we're meeting here: http://www.imlauer.at/de/restaurant/ind​ex.asp?dat=stieglbraeu-salzburg-anreise
13:09 FROGGS jnthn: ohh, even in english: http://www.imlauer.at/en/restaurant/ind​ex.asp?dat=stieglbraeu-salzburg-anreise
13:10 FROGGS the title has changed at least *g*
13:11 lichtkind FROGGS hava a great time there, monday i have my next exam which is my very good exuse not to be in salzburg
13:11 jnthn FROGGS: Yes, that's the pre-conf meet this evening?
13:11 FROGGS lichtkind: yeah, that's a good reason
13:12 FROGGS jnthn: yes
13:12 FROGGS We want pre-conf meat!
13:12 jnthn FROGGS: Cool. I plan to join this evening. Pm plans to come along with me at same time. :)
13:12 jnthn (We were on same flight from Frankfurt :))
13:12 FROGGS yay!
13:12 FROGGS coincidence?
13:12 jnthn Yes :)
13:12 FROGGS hehe
13:13 FROGGS even nicer
13:13 lichtkind but now that i have moar and panda running i can at least post my goto tool to perl 6
13:13 jnthn japhb was on it too! :)
13:13 jnthn Very Perl 6 flight :)
13:13 jnthn But it went from gate 4. Not gate 6. Dang.
13:13 FROGGS good that it came down properly :o)
13:13 jnthn Aye. *and* I made it
13:13 FROGGS ... and you were three, not four
13:13 jnthn Which at one point was starting to look questionable...
13:14 FROGGS why that?
13:14 jnthn Headwind + long wait for a plane parking place + the bus from the plane to the terminal ended up in a traffic jam at the airport entrance too!
13:14 rurban joined #perl6
13:15 FROGGS >.<
13:15 FROGGS what the heck
13:15 jnthn Yeah. German organisation at work!
13:15 FROGGS bah
13:15 jnthn To be fair, I did make my flight :P
13:15 FROGGS Germans are usually better at this
13:15 moritz .oO( the probably use Gearman :-)
13:15 FROGGS *g*
13:16 scumdog1 left #perl6
13:16 jnthn Anyway, I think I'm going to find a quick nom, and then hide away to write talk, code for talk, etc... :)
13:16 FROGGS yeah, have a good nom then :o)
13:17 azawawi http://feather.perl6.nl:8080/   # Farabi6, Perl 6 editing in browser. May break under pressure :)
13:18 lichtkind a perl 6 binding for reaper would be heaven
13:19 FROGGS azawawi: sadly my internet connection here seems not good enough to test it :/
13:19 azawawi FROGGS: panda install Farabi6 # and run locally :)
13:19 lichtkind i wanted test farabi 6 yesterday
13:19 lichtkind at least it installed :)
13:19 azawawi lichtkind: hi there
13:20 lichtkind cheers
13:20 azawawi btw, feather.perl6.nl is under pressure from a starman process
13:20 lichtkind azawawi wx::scintilla doesnt compiles :)
13:20 BSc_tadzik http://i.imgur.com/e3Blgj6.jpg
13:21 FROGGS *g*
13:21 azawawi lichtkind: you caught me :)
13:21 lichtkind bad joke *g*
13:22 lichtkind azawawi i wanted test it because im again do a lot of stuff with wx
13:22 lichtkind just look into kephra repo there are a lot of demo programs that might be also useful to you
13:23 azawawi lichtkind: will take a look at it over the weekend
13:23 peteretep left #perl6
13:24 lichtkind azawawi: actually i looked at it because std wx stc still screws on defined or op but now that finally 3.0 got wrapped we might finally breath without wx::scintilla :)
13:24 azawawi lichtkind: hopefully :)
13:25 azawawi lichtkind: this latest farabi6 ui proof of concept tries to be like ipython notebook
13:25 azawawi lichtkind: opening files vertically instead of tabs with output pane for each one of them
13:31 lichtkind yes multi view in different design
13:31 lichtkind also working on that with kephra
13:32 lichtkind azawawi the pieces you might found most interesting are in the proto/function dir https://bitbucket.org/lichtkind/kep​hra/src/be7ec767f6f9a830449df47692d​3710f66b77517/proto/function/?at=cp
13:32 azawawi lichtkind: this is another design that i tried http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/
13:33 lichtkind how you do highlighting?
13:34 azawawi JS-based cheat highlight perl5 + perl6 keywords
13:34 azawawi :)
13:34 lichtkind so nothing fancy
13:34 azawawi not at the moment, need to focus on bigger stuff :)
13:34 lichtkind im also close before dip stc becasue most of parts i have to redo anyway for the features i need
13:34 carlin is it possible to `require 'somescript.pl6'` and then call a sub that is declared in somescript.pl6?
13:34 moritz carlin: nope
13:35 * azawawi watchs "How the Camel is de-cocooning"
13:35 carlin darn
13:35 * azawawi watches "How the Camel is de-cocooning" :)
13:36 azawawi lichtkind: Remind me again please. What happenned to the Perl 6 tablets that you were working on?
13:37 FROGGS m: require Test <&plan>; plan(1) # carlin
13:37 camelia rakudo-moar d3a284: OUTPUT«1..1␤# Looks like you planned 1 tests, but ran 0␤»
13:37 FROGGS moritz: see^
13:37 moritz FROGGS: tht'as not a .pl6 script
13:37 FROGGS this should also work with a script in case the sub are exported
13:38 FROGGS perl6 -e 'require "lib/Test.pm" <&plan>; plan(1)'
13:38 FROGGS Trying to import symbols &plan from 'lib/Test.pm', but it does not export anything
13:38 FROGGS in sub REQUIRE_IMPORT at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:18815
13:38 FROGGS :o(
13:38 lichtkind azawawi: they are online and well but not complete but when im in good spirits i update or even enhance parts
13:38 lichtkind tablets.perl6.org
13:39 FROGGS perl6 -e 'require Test:file<lib/Test.pm> <&plan>; plan(1)'
13:39 FROGGS 1..1
13:39 FROGGS # Looks like you planned 1 tests, but ran 0
13:39 FROGGS moritz: ^
13:39 FROGGS that's script-ish enough for me
13:40 moritz woah
13:40 moritz FROGGS++
13:40 moritz I didn't know that worked
13:40 moritz maybe lizmat++ and timotimo++ too (the usual suspects on that front :-)
13:40 FROGGS I just remembered that there was a test about that
13:40 FROGGS (S11-modules/require.t)
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13:43 carlin aha that works
13:43 carlin FROGGS++
13:43 FROGGS nice :o)
13:46 azawawi p6doc -f say    # Returns <In order to use unqualified sub and method names like "p6doc -f say" you will need to run "p6doc-index build" to build index.data otherwise use "p6doc -f Str.split" instead of "p6doc -f split" for now>
13:47 azawawi same with p6doc -f Str.split with p6doc -f Str.say
13:47 azawawi confusing
13:48 lichtkind cool gearge carlin is da house
13:48 lichtkind cant spell george
13:48 PerlJam .oO( Why would anyone bring the corpse of a dead comedian into the house?!? )
13:49 lichtkind carlin just reminded me
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13:52 leedo PerlJam: ever seen Weekend At Bernie's?
13:52 leedo :P
13:53 PerlJam Carlin has been dead a bit longer than Bernie was at the time  :)
13:53 FROGGS do they stack dead comedians in a house in that movie?
13:54 leedo almost!
13:54 kaare_ joined #perl6
13:54 FROGGS almost? they arn't actually dead?
13:54 FROGGS :o)
13:55 * carlin isn't actually dead
13:55 timotimo ohai
13:55 FROGGS carlin: very true :o)
13:55 FROGGS timotimo: ohai
13:55 timotimo woolfy is caring us now
13:56 FROGGS timotimo: when you stretch your arms, will leont do the keyboard cat then? :D
13:56 timotimo wat? :)
13:56 FROGGS nvm *g*
13:56 FROGGS be nice :P
13:57 BSc_tadzik wat :D
13:57 kaleem joined #perl6
13:58 timotimo trying
13:58 timotimo being nice is in my nature
13:58 FROGGS :/
13:59 FROGGS leont gives no talk
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14:03 FROGGS ohh, I can also see the Alps properly
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14:19 azawawi How do i read and write to an external process in Perl 6?
14:21 lichtkind azawawi: last rant , i hope for the day than we have full runtime introspection int whol semantics of anyl language through perl 6 this will be a new class of editors
14:22 azawawi true
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14:26 PerlJam azawawi: Proc::Async maybe?   That's where I'd start anyway.
14:27 PerlJam (I'm fairly sure there are unimplemented bits, though)
14:29 carlin this is what I did with the magic that FROGGS++ showed earlier: https://github.com/carbin/stomp/commit/8​30378cc56b742a13bc1ced2986c7ec48f3a1455
14:30 FROGGS joined #perl6
14:33 moritz you have file names that contain double colons?
14:33 moritz that won't work on windows, iirc
14:34 FROGGS moritz: that interpolates
14:34 FROGGS m: require Test:<<$foo::bar>>
14:34 camelia rakudo-moar d3a284: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value $v of type Any in string context  in code  at /tmp/99pBGZmPkt:1␤␤use of uninitialized value $v of type Any in string context  in block <unit> at /tmp/99pBGZmPkt:1␤␤No such method 'value' for invocant of type 'Parcel'␤  …»
14:34 moritz FROGGS: yes, but into :file
14:35 FROGGS why not?
14:35 FROGGS ahh
14:35 FROGGS wait
14:35 moritz that's a file name, not a module name, right?
14:35 FROGGS m: require Test:file<<$foo::bar>>
14:35 camelia rakudo-moar d3a284: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value $v of type Any in string context  in block <unit> at /tmp/WT4e1FxLdl:1␤␤»
14:35 FROGGS file name, aye
14:35 FROGGS Test would be the module name alias
14:37 carlin m: my $x = 'lib/Test.pm'; require Test:file<<$x>> <&plan>; plan(1)
14:37 camelia rakudo-moar d3a284: OUTPUT«1..1␤# Looks like you planned 1 tests, but ran 0␤»
14:40 carlin $Stomp::Config::Hooks is a variable, with the location of the file
14:45 carlin it seems to work, it's running the code from ~/.stomp/hooks, is that not supposed to work?
14:47 azawawi PerlJam: im looking at it https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo​/blob/nom/src/core/Proc/Async.pm . Thanks :)
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14:54 carlin m: module Stomp::Config { our $Hooks = 'lib/Test.pm6' }; require Test:file<<$Stomp::Config::Hooks>> <&plan>; plan(1);
14:54 camelia rakudo-moar d3a284: OUTPUT«1..1␤# Looks like you planned 1 tests, but ran 0␤»
14:55 * azawawi &
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16:03 timotimo where is the social going to be today?
16:04 timotimo are you all assembled somewhere yet?
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16:09 jnthn timotimo: http://www.imlauer.at/de/restaurant/ind​ex.asp?dat=stieglbraeu-salzburg-anreise
16:09 jnthn timotimo: I'm planning to head over there in a bit...
16:09 jnthn timotimo: Not exactly sure when.
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16:11 timotimo thanks
16:13 FROGGS joined #perl6
16:13 FROGGS yays, I've got internet again...
16:14 jnthn yays
16:14 FROGGS okay, I am walking to Imlauer now, and hope to be there in about 30min
16:15 pmichaud good evening, #perl6
16:15 jnthn o/ pmichaud
16:15 FROGGS and since I've got internet on my laptop only, I can only check here every ten minutes or so :o)
16:15 jnthn FROGGS: You're going to stop walking, and check IRC on your laptop? :)
16:15 isBEKaml FROGGS: you walk for 30 minutes?
16:16 SamuraiJack__ joined #perl6
16:16 timotimo will be there soon
16:19 TimToady the wiki sez it starts at 8:00
16:20 TimToady but maybe we can have an early shift of dinner?
16:20 dalek nqp-js: 466c150 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (5 files):
16:20 dalek nqp-js: Hacky support for knowhow instances attributes (will be flesh out in future commits).
16:20 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias​/nqp-js/commit/466c150572
16:22 TimToady btw, I couldn't get in on the hotel wifi, had to hijack someone's netgear
16:22 pmichaud TimToady: o/
16:23 TimToady well, I could get in through bluetooth to my telephone and thence to HOTELPLAINBRUEKE, but then port 22 seems to be blocked
16:23 TimToady pmichaud: \o
16:24 TimToady are you here?
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16:25 FROGGS TimToady: I'm (was) at the same hotel
16:26 FROGGS now I walked in some random direction :S
16:26 FROGGS ohh, direction seems fine
16:27 FROGGS TimToady: if you go to the shop right nearby, you can by a mobile phone card with 7gigs download volume for 15eur
16:27 FROGGS (there is only one card left)
16:27 FROGGS the shop closes in 33mins though
16:28 jnthn TimToady: pmichaud and I are planning to set off for the dinner place in 10 mins or so
16:28 jnthn uh, 5 now :)
16:28 FROGGS jnthn: aye, I'm sitting on the pavement currently :o)
16:28 TimToady we'll join you
16:28 jnthn TimToady: So will be there a bit earlier :)
16:28 FROGGS isBEKaml: what's wrong with walking?
16:28 jnthn FROGGS: So comfort!
16:28 FROGGS hehe
16:29 FROGGS I'll have beer in a bit, it will be all fine by then
16:29 FROGGS :o)
16:29 isBEKaml FROGGS: nothing wrong. Just found it odd that you're willing to walk that much to have a beer. :P
16:29 FROGGS hey! I'll also meet ppl and will have something to eat :o)
16:30 isBEKaml :o)
16:33 pmichaud yes, I'm here... and on my way to dinner. see you soon
16:33 pmichaud afk
16:34 * jnthn on way too &
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16:55 Ven joined #perl6
16:55 Ven Well hello #perl6
16:55 FROGGS we're sitting in the garden of that hotel/restaurant Imlauer
16:55 Ven Waving from timo and me's room o/
16:56 timotimo o/
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17:02 * carlin waves from the other side of the world
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17:10 timotimo we didn't tell leont when we'd be showing up at the reception desk again to go to the social ... m)
17:10 jeffreykegler joined #perl6
17:11 * brrt wishes the #perl6 people lots of fun on APW
17:12 FROGGS thank you :o)
17:13 jeffreykegler Question: I'm looking for the Perl 6 doc which describes the notation for pattern repetitions, particular with separators ...
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17:13 jeffreykegler words or numbers separated by commas, that sort of thing ...
17:13 jeffreykegler I recall reading some very cool stuff and now I can't find it.
17:13 brrt also the regular perl people, of course
17:14 timotimo jeffreykegler: do you mean for matching in regexes?
17:14 jeffreykegler YEs
17:14 timotimo like / (\d+)+ %% "," /
17:14 timotimo that should be syn 05
17:14 jeffreykegler Yes!!!
17:14 jeffreykegler Thanks much!
17:14 timotimo YW :)
17:14 timotimo one of my fav features of p6 regexes
17:15 timotimo BBL
17:16 jeffreykegler On another subject, while I'm here, we'd talked plans for doing a BNF grammar of Perl 6, as a start toward a prototype Marpa parser, and even got a volunteer to do it ...
17:17 * leon__ arrived safely in Salzburg :-)
17:17 jeffreykegler Unfortunately, due to press of time, that's not likely to happen very soon.  Just too much other stuff has come up.  Just thought I'd put it on the log in case anyone was watching this particular effort.
17:18 leon__ And now that he picked the right network, he might even have usable internet
17:25 nine anyone already at the pre conf meeting?
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17:40 * lizmat and woolfy are now heading to the pre-conf as well
17:40 yoleaux 07:14Z <jnthn> lizmat: well, good timing...I've not had thse happen on Windows at all, and so haven't had chance to hunt the thing down yet...provided there's decent debugging stuff on your laptop I might finally stand a chance :)
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18:13 oskie hello, is nqp intended as a programming language for humans, or is it only an intermediate language?
18:14 brrt nqp is a programming language all right
18:14 brrt PIR is an intermediate language
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18:15 brrt it can be tricky though (only binding, no assignment)
18:15 brrt but in general i like it well enough :-)
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18:18 oskie hmm, interesting
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18:24 dalek roast: 6e02af8 | usev6++ | S04-phasers/enter-leave.t:
18:24 dalek roast: Add test for RT #118387
18:24 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6e02af8c84
18:24 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=118387
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20:02 dalek roast: f386c96 | usev6++ | S32-array/delete.t:
20:02 dalek roast: Add test for RT #116695
20:02 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f386c96536
20:02 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=116695
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20:40 dalek rakudo-star-daily: d207c97 | coke++ | log/MoarVM-version.log:
20:40 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
20:40 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/d207c974df
20:40 dalek perl6-roast-data: 1acdc9d | coke++ | / (4 files):
20:40 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
20:40 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/1acdc9da50
20:40 [Coke] moar clean; parrot still has two failures!
20:41 [Coke] LHF: please create a parrot-specific skip/RT for those tests.
20:41 [Coke] (or, better, fix 'em.)
20:42 vike joined #perl6
20:44 dalek roast: 67583ed | usev6++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
20:44 dalek roast: Add test for RT #116607
20:44 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/67583ed445
20:44 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=116607
20:48 cognome joined #perl6
20:51 tony-o [Coke]: for future ref, Configure checks ./install/bin/nqp-[m|j] before building
20:52 tony-o attempting to build p6 in cygwin
20:54 _slade_ joined #perl6
20:58 [Coke] tony-o: Yes; it checkes the INSTALLED version.
20:58 [Coke] this is suboptimal when you have installed in a system location.
20:58 [Coke] I should be able to force a rebuild from rakudo with a config option.
20:59 [Coke] (and not by removing the installed version which someone might be using)
21:03 _slade_ joined #perl6
21:05 [Coke] RT: down to 775 tickets.
21:06 [Coke] usev6++
21:07 bartolin thanks! to me it feels useful to go through tickets and try to grok the different bits of the language.
21:08 [Coke] usev6 == bartolin?
21:08 bartolin if someone sees mistakes, please point them out (but I think you do that anyway)
21:08 bartolin yes, it's me ;-)
21:08 [Coke] bartolin++
21:09 [Coke] m: say +Failure;
21:09 camelia rakudo-moar d3a284: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13672␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/nxvAUTiTCs:1␤␤»
21:09 [Coke] m: say "abcd".index("xyz")==0
21:09 camelia rakudo-moar d3a284: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤  in method Bridge at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4767␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4688␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/hcu3GZPd2U:1␤␤»
21:09 [Coke] m: say Failure == 0
21:09 camelia rakudo-moar d3a284: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13672␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4530␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/RZ60dqSCYI:1␤␤»
21:09 [Coke] bartolin: ^^ RT #76294 updates.
21:09 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=76294
21:10 [Coke] Unsure what the desired behavior is anymore, though.
21:11 bartolin [Coke]: I think I didn't read that one yet.
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21:13 dalek roast: f15d9ae | usev6++ | S05-metachars/tilde.t:
21:13 dalek roast: Add fudged test for RT #77616
21:13 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f15d9aed26
21:13 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=77616
21:14 [Coke] bartolin: commented on 112988 for you - you want "is_run"
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21:15 bartolin * reading
21:19 bartolin [Coke]: about 112988: I already thought about is_run. since the original request was to omit excessive errors, I have to do something additional to looking for "Could not open <file>".
21:19 bartolin [Coke]: (that was in the excessive error as well.) But I could check for number of newlines or something.
21:19 bartolin [Coke]: that just feels a bit crude ...
21:22 pepl joined #perl6
21:23 bartolin [Coke]: btw, is_run is a nice thing to have. used it just two hours ago for 118387 where I wanted to check stderr and stdout separately
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21:52 hagiri ops
21:52 hagiri sorry!
21:54 Hor|zon joined #perl6
21:56 [Coke] bartolin: "error starts with the text we're testing for, and doesn't have more than one newline"?
22:00 bartolin [Coke]: oh! but how to make sure error is not excessive? I'll have a look at that later. but thanks for the pointers!
22:12 bartolin good night, #perl6
22:24 Ven joined #perl6
22:25 leon__ joined #perl6
22:28 Ven well,  that was a nice dinner
22:28 Ven next to timotimo, in front of nine, with leon__ aside
22:28 Ven just on the side*, er
22:29 Psyche^_ joined #perl6
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23:23 * azawawi finally initial ANSI color support in farabi6 https://github.com/azawawi/farabi6/commit​/f024e83b9d53af01138e63d0b31f587718c1c051
23:24 erdic joined #perl6
23:25 tony-o has anyone successfully built perl6 in cygwni?
23:31 ifim joined #perl6
23:31 tony-o guess not, there is no pthread_barrier
23:36 azawawi http://feather.perl6.nl:3030/  # mounted over perl6-examples with initial ANSI color support for error messages... Dont use Firefox.. it will die lol
23:39 tony-o the link to http://feather.perl6.nl/~foo/ points to http://feather.perl6.nl/~/
23:40 tony-o azawawi:
23:42 azawawi tony-o: ?
23:42 tony-o azawawi: the link to http://feather.perl6.nl/~foo/ points to http://feather.perl6.nl/~/
23:44 azawawi tony-o: no idea why it does that but i remember there is an Apache mapping somewhere (e.g. http://feather.perl6.nl/~azawawi/
23:47 tony-o oic - it wasn't meant to be a hardcoded link to somewhere,just depends on who published whatever
23:50 azawawi btw why is perl6 warning about deprecated IO::Spec => $*SPEC
23:50 azawawi Any reason behind that change?
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