Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-11-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 timotimo FROGGS++ # for seeing it through to the end
00:09 colomon FROGGS++ indeed!
00:09 colomon timotimo: any progress on the ABC-triggered bug?
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01:01 timotimo no, sadly not
01:02 timotimo i haven't spent more time on it, to be honest
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01:41 timotimo .tell FROGGS to remind me to ask a favor of you tomorrow
01:41 yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
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02:46 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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06:14 JimmyZ .tell masak https://github.com/papers-we-love/​papers-we-love/tree/master/macros
06:14 yoleaux JimmyZ: I'll pass your message to masak.
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07:04 dalek perl6-bench: 1122f8b | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | microbenchmarks.pl:
07:04 dalek perl6-bench: Start adding output and expected routines to microbenchmarks
07:04 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/1122f8b53e
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07:09 FROGGS[mobile] o/
07:10 FROGGS[mobile] timotimo: what do you need?
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07:15 peteretep lizmat: Nice to meet you on Saturday!
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07:29 FROGGS .
07:29 yoleaux 01:41Z <timotimo> FROGGS: to remind me to ask a favor of you tomorrow
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07:51 masak morning, #perl6
07:51 yoleaux 06:14Z <JimmyZ> masak: https://github.com/papers-we-love/​papers-we-love/tree/master/macros
07:52 masak thank-you
07:52 masak adding to @pile-of-articles
07:55 moritz http://www.glendix.org/ plan 9 userspace for linux
07:57 dalek roast: 82914ab | TimToady++ | S02-literals/char-by-number.t:
07:57 dalek roast: "\01" is not illegal, just doesn't dwym
07:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/82914abc5e
07:57 dalek roast: f50f63d | TimToady++ | S02-literals/listquote.t:
07:57 dalek roast: should test for ComplexStr too
07:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f50f63d5d6
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08:22 lizmat good *, #perl6
08:23 * lizmat survived LPW and associated touristing and shopping  :-)
08:24 masak oh, it's the LPW time of year? nice.
08:24 lizmat I think the question most asked was, whether TimToady's announcement was for real or not
08:24 masak we're all wondering that.
08:24 nwc10 lizmat: and the car survived the trip back, with the inevitable haul of books?
08:24 lizmat and the amazed look on everybody's face, when I told them it was real  :-)
08:25 * masak .oO( TimTrollay )
08:25 lizmat nwc10: mostly CD's this time, but also some books
08:26 lizmat oddly enough, TimToady's announcement does not seem to have made it to the Perl Weekly yet
08:26 * JimmyZ wonders what status the GLR is
08:26 lizmat JimmyZ is not alone
08:30 moritz pmichaud: is there anything I can do to help with GLR?
08:30 lizmat peteretep: it was good to see you as well!
08:33 FROGGS lizmat: when you have time (and are in a good mood :P), then we should talk about IO::* on windows
08:33 lizmat now would be good
08:33 FROGGS ohh, okay
08:33 FROGGS well, it is broken on windows atm
08:34 FROGGS because chdir and friends do not handle backslashes as dir-seps anymore, which we talked about
08:34 FROGGS but.... $*CWD and dir() do spit out backslashes
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08:35 lizmat ok, that's a migration issue I hadn't thought about  yet...
08:36 lizmat which makes it important I move forward asap  :-)
08:36 FROGGS :o)
08:36 lizmat or maybe return chdir() back to it's former logic
08:36 lizmat hmmm....
08:36 FROGGS I'll happily test things for you, or try stuff as a pre-commit hook
08:37 lizmat the problem is that the complete move forward still breaks panda in a very hard to debug way  :-(
08:39 FROGGS really?
08:39 FROGGS hmmm
08:39 FROGGS I can probably help with that too
08:39 FROGGS (if you put your changes in a rakudo branch for example)
08:40 lizmat :-)
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09:22 masak FROGGS++ lizmat++
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10:47 timotimo o/
10:49 lizmat timotimo \o
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11:31 lizmat hmmm..... interesting way of losing information:
11:31 lizmat m: LEAVE die 2; die 1 #  where is the info about die #1 ?
11:31 camelia rakudo-moar 72703b: OUTPUT«2␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/qwRosv31pU:1␤␤»
11:32 timotimo m: LEAVE die 2; die 1; CATCH { default { say $_ } }
11:32 camelia rakudo-moar 72703b: OUTPUT«2␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/5nMjofQwda:1␤␤»
11:32 timotimo m: { LEAVE die 2; die 1; CATCH { default { say $_ } } } CATCH { default { say $_ } }
11:32 camelia rakudo-moar 72703b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/JQ57KXf6Ujâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/JQ57KXf6Uj:1â�¤------> [32m; die 1; CATCH { default { say $_ } } } [33mâ��[31mCATCH { default { say $_ } }[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfix…»
11:32 timotimo m: { LEAVE die 2; die 1; CATCH { default { say $_ } } }; CATCH { default { say $_ } }
11:32 camelia rakudo-moar 72703b: OUTPUT«1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/P0VUJqE0sL:1␤␤2␤  in block  at /tmp/P0VUJqE0sL:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/P0VUJqE0sL:1␤␤»
11:33 timotimo interesting result
11:36 lizmat yeah, of course this can be handled ad-hoc
11:36 lizmat but if you have LEAVE code in a block, and you call a module that deep in its bowels does a die, and as a result of that, the LEAVE will also die
11:37 lizmat you never find out what happened deep inside the module
11:37 lizmat I think that's what bugging wrt to panda / File::Find
11:37 timotimo but then the LEAVE is your own problem, no?
11:37 lizmat yes, it is  :-)
11:37 timotimo ah, then i seem to be understanding correctly
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11:38 timotimo i agree that panda swallowing error information everywhere is annoying
11:38 FROGGS I still think that you have to care about such a situation by yourself
11:38 lizmat but it can be very confusing...  as the reason why the code in the LEAVE is failing, could be caused internally
11:39 FROGGS one could argue that LEAVE is only for leaving "normally", but I don't know if that has a design smell or not
11:39 lizmat no, no
11:39 lizmat that's not what I meant
11:39 lizmat but I do think we need to have a way to preserve the "inner" stacktrace
11:39 timotimo for leaving normally, there's KEEP
11:39 timotimo and UNDO for the explicit case of leaving with error
11:40 lizmat as in, we should never drop stack traces
11:40 lizmat something I think we need to think about, specifically wrt to phasers that are called upon exit states, like LEAVE, NEXT, LAST, END  etc
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11:47 Juerd moritz: Note that the end of the year is not a hard deadline
11:48 Juerd moritz: Also, is the 350 euro all that's needed? I'll cough up a significant bit then. It's much less than I would have spent on keeping the current feather.
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11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: d74d5c5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: bump parrot rev for a GC fix, rurban++
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d74d5c5d31
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: 12f9f84 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | docs/ops.markdown:
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: Document control QAST op.
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/12f9f845ef
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: ee2ca3a | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/parrot/ (25 files):
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: silence most warning when building on parrot, fixes #198
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ee2ca3aac6
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: c0bc3d9 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (27 files):
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/nqp into openpipe
11:49 dalek nqp/openpipe: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c0bc3d975a
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11:56 timotimo looking for some more suggestions for the weekly
11:56 timotimo http://p6weekly.wordpress.com/?p=​255&amp;shareadraft=5460a7e54dbec
11:56 moritz Juerd: we're aiming for a bit beefier hardware, and I have various pledges for donations already
11:56 moritz Juerd: and it's good that it's not a hard deadline, 'cause it might take some time
11:58 nwc10 timotimo: if you want to add some humour, you might want to add a footnote after the GLR, NSA and NFG acronyms something like "Any resemblance to real TLAs, living or dead, is purely coincidental."
11:58 masak :)
11:59 * timotimo would have to look up two of the three to figure out what they could stand for
12:00 nwc10 I don't think that there's a "real" definition for GLR
12:00 nwc10 but the usual meaning of NFG is quite inappropriately rude, and NSA quite inappropriately out of context
12:01 nwc10 (although the NSA would probably disagree, as I'd guess that they view themselves as always in scope)
12:02 nwc10 timotimo: I can't spot anything *constructive* to suggest :-)
12:02 timotimo hah
12:03 timotimo that sounds like you're barely holding back your insults :D
12:03 nwc10 I was only intending to insult my previous suggestion
12:03 timotimo all right then
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12:20 jnthn timotimo: LPG to me
12:21 timotimo i'm adding even more, though! :)
12:23 JimmyZ LPG?
12:23 timotimo "looks pretty good"
12:23 timotimo (is my guess)
12:24 lizmat just wondering: in File::Find, is checkrules part of the external API ?
12:26 brrt \o
12:26 brrt liquified propane gas
12:27 FROGGS does somebody here know how to please such a warning?
12:27 FROGGS nqp_ops.c: In function ‘quicksort’:
12:27 FROGGS nqp_ops.c:171:1: warning: stack usage is 1512 bytes [-Wstack-usage=]
12:27 brrt what.. why would that be wrong?
12:27 timotimo because smaller stacks are better stacks
12:27 brrt i'd think by splitting stuff over multiple functions
12:28 FROGGS splitting up quicksort? hehe, no, that's out of my reach :P
12:28 * brrt not sure if sarcasm or not
12:28 FROGGS no sarcasm involved
12:29 brrt hmmm
12:29 FROGGS https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/ma​ster/src/vm/parrot/ops/nqp.ops#L101
12:30 FROGGS ohh, I think my openpipe port works O.o
12:31 FROGGS I am shocked
12:31 brrt well, you allocate 100 'begin' integers (400 bytes at least), 100 'end' integers, that shouldn't be a problem unless intval is 64 bits wide
12:31 brrt which i'd expect given this is perl6
12:31 FROGGS it is 64bits, aye
12:32 timotimo so that quicksort would support arrays with how many elements exactly? :)
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12:32 brrt note that 100 levels of recursion deep is either a sign of a pathological case or 2^100 ints deep
12:32 brrt also.. why u no use qsort()
12:32 FROGGS timotimo did that, it is all his fault!
12:33 timotimo oh crap, they found it out!
12:33 * timotimo hides, quickly
12:33 brrt only data can ever going to convince me the function call overhead will kill usb :-)
12:33 brrt :-D
12:33 brrt s/usb/us/
12:33 FROGGS it is also funny with 'usb' :D
12:33 FROGGS sort of
12:33 timotimo there's no overhead to "allocating" 100 64bit integers on the stack
12:34 brrt no
12:34 brrt it is an OK solution
12:34 brrt this will not be called recursively
12:34 timotimo correct
12:35 brrt HOWEVER i think this will fail for a pre-sorted array because it always pick the left element for the pivot
12:35 timotimo selecting a pivot is A Hard Problem™
12:36 brrt yes, and it is adequately solved by randomisation :-)
12:36 timotimo i agree
12:36 FROGGS we have the very same quicksort in MoarVM... does it make sense to replace it with qsort and benchmark it?
12:37 brrt i think it does
12:37 brrt but that's just, like, my opinion dude
12:37 FROGGS hehe
12:37 masak I know some algorithms that flip the sorting strategy in the middle if the array turns out to be "mostly sorted".
12:37 FROGGS GO OUT OF THAT CHANNEL!!11 NO OPINIONS HERE DUDE!!11
12:38 brrt really? that seems.. tricky
12:38 masak I think the Java API's sort does that.
12:38 brrt and edge-case-vulnerable
12:38 * timotimo does something unspeakable to brrt's carpet
12:38 timotimo there's TimSort, which was invented by a python person
12:38 masak and they do it that way because that's what fell out of profiling.
12:38 timotimo it's pretty clever about sorted subsequences or something like that
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12:39 rurban the stack access should fit into the L0 cache
12:39 rurban so >256 is excessive
12:40 brrt L0 cache is that small?
12:40 timotimo l0 is very small
12:40 brrt i see
12:40 rurban depends on the processors.
12:40 timotimo hmm. not entirely sure how small it is in my system
12:41 rurban but my rule of thumb is stack < 256 or < 1024 occasionally
12:41 rurban wordsize of course, not bytes
12:42 leont Yeah, I was surprised by that too
12:43 rurban parrot even emits emits a warning on overlarge stack sizes with —cage
12:46 brrt well, even if your pseudostack would fit into l0 cache, that doesn't mean your sorted array will, so even then i'm not seeing the benefit yet
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12:46 brrt or rather, the worry
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13:06 lizmat so do we have a way to exit a process pronto *without* running any LEAVE / END / whatever blocks ?
13:06 lizmat similar to p5's POSIX::exit0() ?
13:07 brrt signal(getpid(), 9) :-P
13:07 lizmat hehe
13:07 lizmat Hmmm... nqp::exit()?
13:08 moritz from an email that pledges a donation for the server: "BTW, do you know of a consultant that can assist us with a few debian server details: hot cloning, exim4 and spamassassin?"
13:09 moritz if anybody wants to do such things, please tell me
13:10 lizmat m: END say "hello world"; exit
13:10 camelia rakudo-moar 72703b: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
13:10 lizmat m: END say "hello world"; nqp::exit(0)
13:10 camelia rakudo-moar 72703b: ( no output )
13:17 leont brrt: you mean kill instead of signal ;-)
13:17 brrt leont - you're quite right
13:20 masak m: END say "OH BAI"; exit # clearly an END block can't say "hello world" :P
13:20 camelia rakudo-moar 72703b: OUTPUT«OH BAI␤»
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13:27 masak but nqp::exit() feels like exactly the low-enough layer to trigger an immediate exit that doesn't go via LEAVE/END phasers.
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13:29 jnthn The quicksort in question is only ever used for LTM fates
13:29 jnthn Given it's mostly shuffling, a bubble sort may even be mroe effective...
13:30 jnthn About L0 cache, it's a darn *cache*, so what matters is what memory you access, not how much is allocated. So whining about oversized stack frames is stupid.
13:31 jnthn You have to know something about the usage pattern to know if it's a problem.
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13:34 brrt LTM?
13:34 jnthn Longest token matching
13:35 brrt ah
13:35 brrt hmm
13:35 brrt then changing to qsort might make a differenc
13:35 brrt e
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14:44 rurban We have a problem with nqp lstat vs stat. parrot uses POSIX lstat, nqp thinks that stat should perform lstat with STAT_ISLNK
14:44 rurban moar and jvm should use lstat for symlinks
14:45 rurban or use a different symlink check
14:49 Juerd moritz: What's the total amount you're aiming for?
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14:57 moritz Juerd: there are several options I'm considering right now. The highest would be new hardware for 1900EUR
14:57 moritz Juerd: though other folks are currently investigating if a company that's rather friendly to Perl developers has spare, used hardware that we could get cheaper, and with more power
14:59 moritz Juerd: so I'd say once we know if it'll actually be new hardware, I'll tell you (and the rest of the world), and then you can make an informed decision about donating
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15:01 moritz and after szabgab++ mentioned my article in Perl Weekly, there has been a second wave of pledges
15:02 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
15:02 moritz \o pmichaud
15:02 * TuxCM reminds the p6 people there is a (very slow) HP-UX machine at their disposal, might they want to use that
15:02 FROGGS hi pmichaud
15:03 * TuxCM reminds FROGGS about Tuxic :P
15:03 FROGGS *g*
15:03 FROGGS yeah...
15:03 FROGGS have to do that
15:03 nwc10 good *, Pm
15:03 lizmat pmichaud o/
15:04 FROGGS TuxCM: I'd like to get MoarVM+nqp+rakudo tor un on that box...
15:04 FROGGS to run*
15:05 TuxCM send a mail with your id_rsa.pub and the required logname to h dot merijn at procura dot nl
15:05 nwc10 FROGGS: I might have a patch to get MoarVM slightly further than it is currently on HP-UX
15:05 FROGGS nwc10: I'll happily accept it :o)
15:05 nwc10 but the next thing that I hit was the build system for one of the embedded deps
15:06 nwc10 FROGGS: Offhand I don't know where it is. IIRC it's to do with not busting the length limits on pre-processor macros
15:06 nwc10 the static inline detection code should (bloody) work on HP/UX and AIX (because I tested it)
15:06 FROGGS ohh, okay
15:06 TuxCM nwc10, HP-UX 10.20 is *not* a target for MoarVM I presume
15:07 nwc10 TuxCM: I think the answer is "oh $deity no"
15:07 TuxCM then there are options to set the limit on macro space
15:07 nwc10 I'm still attempting to get $real_life back down to size
15:07 TuxCM (not supported on 10.20)
15:07 TuxCM lemme check if I can find those options
15:08 nwc10 TuxCM: there was a much easier way to fix it. It was the MVM_ROOT macro, which is just a shortcut for other code
15:08 nwc10 please don't look, it wasn't needed
15:08 * TuxCM stops searching
15:08 nwc10 and IIRC it's also needed for xlc
15:08 TuxCM xlc--
15:08 nwc10 but
15:08 nwc10 xlc++ # if you code works on xlc, it probbaly works everywhere
15:09 TuxCM and it is not xlc that is buggy, it is the preprocessor it uses
15:09 moritz one would think that writing a preprocessor would be much easier to get right than writing a C compiler
15:09 nwc10 oh yes, *that* one (the processor)
15:09 nwc10 IIRC it managed to mis-substitute macro parameters
15:10 TuxCM it is not ansi-compliant
15:10 TuxCM IIRC ^\s+define\s+foo(a,b)\s+... is misinterpreted
15:11 TuxCM IIRC ^\s+#define\s+foo(a,b)\s+... is misinterpreted
15:11 TuxCM or ^\s+#\s+define\s+foo(a,b)\s+...
15:29 dalek rakudo/nom: 7ecf691 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO.pm:
15:29 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix problem with MAKE-ROOT
15:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7ecf691c00
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15:38 peteretep I am trying to understand https://github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/ at a high level
15:38 peteretep How does it get around the fact that Perl "can't be parsed", in terms of barewords and sub signatures?
15:40 hoelzro morning #perl6
15:40 moritz peteretep: it can't be parsed without being executed. v5 also executed it, just like perl5 does
15:40 moritz \o hoelzro
15:40 peteretep moritz: OK, that makes sense
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15:57 dalek nqp/openpipe: 4818829 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (5 files):
15:57 dalek nqp/openpipe: add working openpipe op for nqp on parrot on linux
15:57 dalek nqp/openpipe:
15:57 dalek nqp/openpipe: That means that we have openpipe on all platforms/backends except
15:57 dalek nqp/openpipe: for parrot on windows.
15:57 dalek nqp/openpipe: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4818829d33
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15:59 lizmat timotimo++ for weekly
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16:02 hoelzro indeed
16:02 hoelzro timotimo++
16:04 FROGGS nice article
16:04 FROGGS timotimo++
16:08 dalek perl6-roast-data: 94bcb86 | coke++ | / (5 files):
16:08 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:08 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/94bcb86f96
16:10 moritz timotimo++ indeed
16:10 moritz timotimo: would you mind including a link to http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/​2014-community-server-funding.html
16:10 dalek nqp/parrot-lstat: d5f7c98 | rurban++ | / (3 files):
16:10 dalek nqp/parrot-lstat: support lstat for symlinks on parrot
16:10 dalek nqp/parrot-lstat:
16:10 dalek nqp/parrot-lstat: requires the parrot fix for GH #1129
16:10 dalek nqp/parrot-lstat: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d5f7c98e37
16:14 [Coke] the parrot macport is currently at 3.3.0; no one has complained about a lack of updates there. If someone wants to own the macport and provide builds, let me know.
16:15 rurban I am a macports user, but apparently never needed it
16:15 rurban do you have register there somehow?
16:16 rurban I'm not strong with tcl
16:16 rurban rakudo would be important there, with the 3 backend variants
16:19 rurban A parallel test target for nqp would also be nice (prove -j4)
16:20 FROGGS TEST_JOBS=4 should do
16:20 rurban hmm, didn't work for me
16:20 rurban works fine on parrot though
16:22 FROGGS make -j4 p-test
16:22 FROGGS prove -r --exec "./nqp-p --vmlibs=nqp_dyncall_ops" t/nqp t/parrot t/hll t/qregex t/p5regex t/qast t/serialization t/nativecall
16:22 FROGGS it just swallows the -j
16:22 FROGGS but you could use the prove command directly as a workaround
16:22 rurban yes, did that.
16:23 rurban but I'll forget about it, and parallel is so much faster
16:23 FROGGS true
16:30 [Coke] (parrot macport) - whoops, meant to ask in #parrot.
16:32 FROGGS sigh
16:32 FROGGS now I've got openpipe working perl6-p on linux... and now sending the report segfauls
16:33 FROGGS segfaults*
16:33 japhb timotimo: The branch I merged was called 'stress', not 'stresstest'
16:33 FROGGS again in 0x00007ffff2e3f582 in Rakudo_cont_is_rw_scalar (interp=interp@entry=0x610060, check=0x109dbb88) at container.c:203
16:33 FROGGS 203    if (IS_CONCRETE(check) && STABLE(check)->WHAT == scalar_type) {
16:35 dalek rakudo/openpipe: e5ae2e7 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
16:35 dalek rakudo/openpipe: unfudge open("rp") on parrot
16:35 dalek rakudo/openpipe: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e5ae2e7306
16:36 brrt left #perl6
16:41 FROGGS okay, this line: my $buf = Buf.new(self.to-json.ords);
16:42 FROGGS fails with: Unmarshallable foreign language value passed for parameter '$value'
16:46 anaeem1 joined #perl6
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16:49 PerlJam greetings!
16:50 hoelzro o/ PerlJam
16:50 FROGGS hi PerlJam
16:51 FROGGS perl6-p: say $*VM
16:51 FROGGS p: say $*VM
16:51 camelia rakudo-parrot 7ecf69: OUTPUT«parrot (6.9.0)␤»
16:52 FROGGS p: say $*VM.perl
16:52 camelia rakudo-parrot 7ecf69: OUTPUT«VM.new(config => {"perldoc" => "/home/camelia/perl5/perlbrew/p​erls/perl-5.20.1/bin/perldoc", "i_syssysctl" => "define", "nvsize" => "8", "has_core_nci_thunks" => "1", "optimize" => "-O2", "intvalmin" => "LONG_MIN", "has_glut" => "4", "nv" => "double", "h…»
16:52 FROGGS p: say $*PERL.perl
16:52 camelia rakudo-parrot 7ecf69: OUTPUT«Perl.new(compiler => Compiler.new(release => "", build-date => DateTime.new(year => 2014, month => 11, day => 10, hour => 16, minute => 17, second => 1), codename => "", name => "rakudo", auth => "The Perl Foundation", version => Version.new('2014.10.97.…»
16:52 FROGGS p: say $*KERNEL.perl
16:52 camelia rakudo-parrot 7ecf69: OUTPUT«Kernel.new(release => "#1 SMP Fri May 31 20:21:23 UTC 2013 (97c14ba)", name => "linux", auth => "unknown", version => Version.new('1.SMP.Fri.May.31.2​0.21.23.UTC.2013.97.c.14.ba'), signature => Blob, desc => Str)␤»
16:52 FROGGS p: say $*DISTRO.perl
16:52 camelia rakudo-parrot 7ecf69: OUTPUT«Distro.new(release => "3.7.10-1.16-default", is-win => Bool::False, path-sep => ":", name => "linux", auth => "unknown", version => Version.new('3.7.10.1.16.default'), signature => Blob, desc => Str)␤»
16:54 lucs left #perl6
16:54 jdv79 are there any good resources, aside from src diving, to learn about slangs.  i don't get most of how Tuxic works.
16:54 FROGGS jdv79: slangs are pretty new actually
16:54 spider-mario joined #perl6
16:55 FROGGS so we are exploring how they could work atm
16:55 FROGGS I try to make it user friendly these days, but it is not yet the case
16:56 jdv79 new in concept or in implementation?  i could have sworn i read about them years ago.
16:56 FROGGS implementation
16:56 FROGGS I can explain later how you can create a slang today
16:56 tony-o coffeeperl
16:56 masak \o
16:56 FROGGS but I've got to move home in a few minutes
16:56 tony-o (gags self)
16:57 jdv79 that would be great.  maybe a line by line of Tuxic for dummies.
16:57 masak tony-o: because you've always wanted to indent your Perl and avoid declaring variables?
16:57 jdv79 good luck with that
16:57 tony-o masak: hahaha
16:57 masak I'll take that as a "no".
16:58 tony-o i have good indenting and always declare :-), just not a fan of coffee script
16:58 guru joined #perl6
17:00 tony-o it has some cool tricks but it prints out some ugly JS
17:00 nine I'm looking for someone who is doing or wants to do a port of a serious module from P5 to P6. Doesn't have to be something major like Dancer but shouldn't be something trivial either. mohawk++ has volunteered to convert any lessons learned into some real good documentation.
17:00 dalek mu: dd41d2a | duff++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/ (2 files):
17:00 dalek mu: Start on Advent 2014
17:00 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/dd41d2af54
17:01 tony-o nine: of a serious module?
17:01 FROGGS "No such method 'gist' for invocant of type 'NQPLexPad'" - I fear there is something strange going on still
17:01 PerlJam tony-o: no Acme modules ;)
17:01 FROGGS nine: XML::LibXML?
17:01 nine tony-o: in essence something large enough to allow a good number of lessons to be learned
17:01 PerlJam nine: got any candidates?
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17:02 FROGGS nine: and then XML::Compile?
17:02 FROGGS brb
17:02 masak nine: do https://github.com/jnthn/json-path and http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/sweet-ports count?
17:02 tony-o FROGGS: i thought you were working on xml-libxml
17:03 nine PerlJam: me, no. Should probably be something the porter wants/needs herself for motivation. If I want to use some P5 module in P6, I make sure Inline::Perl5 can do it. Seems like a better way for me to invest my energy.
17:03 PerlJam nine: btw, do you have an account for perl6advent.wordpress.com  ?
17:04 nine PerlJam: not that I'm aware of, no.
17:04 nine masak: hard to say as I'm just the in-between guy here, but I guess he had something larger in mind.
17:05 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
17:05 nine FROGGS: XML::LibXML sounds like something every language needs and is something quite substantial.
17:05 PerlJam nine: Are you willing to write something for this year's Perl 6 Advent Calendar?  (If so, tell me an email address I can send an invite to)
17:06 jnthn The JSON::Path port is one that very nicely illustrates the power of some Perl 6 things
17:06 jnthn It came out radically different.
17:06 masak and the power of some lambda-based programming, too.
17:07 jnthn ayez
17:07 tony-o jnthn: i was just reading JSON::Path, it looks really cool
17:07 PerlJam masak/jnthn:   Sounds like good fodder for Advent!  :)
17:07 masak basically, you can build entire programs dynamically, if you know how to plug your lambdas together.
17:07 PerlJam (I know it's early yet, but I thought I'd start mentioning it to get people thinking about advent)
17:07 jnthn I have some slides on it somewhere too
17:07 masak PerlJam++
17:07 nine PerlJam: willing yes. But I don't think I'll have the time. Will spend the next three weeks trying to inflate my master's thesis by another 15 pages just to satisfy some arbitrary size criteria for acceptance :/
17:08 PerlJam nine: you don't have to write anything big or involved.  You could just quickly illustrate Inline::Perl5 for instance.   IT doesn't have to take loads of time.
17:08 jnthn ah, yeah, it's in http://jnthn.net/papers/2013-apw-lessons.pdf
17:09 jnthn Which is a talk I only gave once, but really deserves giving another time...
17:10 nine jnthn: that talk is one of the absolutely most useful talks I've ever seen
17:11 nine PerlJam: what would be the time frame?
17:11 PerlJam Is anyone working on a DBIC-like thing for P6 yet?
17:12 rindolf joined #perl6
17:12 PerlJam nine: produce one (or more) articles at your convenience sometime between Dec 1 and Dec 24 (inclusive)   :)  You could write something up now if you wanted and publish it on one of those days.
17:13 PerlJam nine: See https://github.com/perl6/mu/tre​e/master/misc/perl6advent-2014  for the schedule and some ideas for topics
17:13 jnthn +1 to an Inline::Perl5 one. Since a lot of advent readers are not close followers of what happens the rest of the year in Perl 6, it doesn't have to be anything advanced. Using the examples presented in the Inline::Perl5 talk would and some words around them would probably cut it. :)
17:13 tony-o PerlJam: which part? i wrote something on dbiish that is not at all like the dbix::class stuff
17:14 tony-o it's loose and good for prototyping but i wouldn't use it for a real productive system unless you're super lazy and don't care for your job
17:14 nine Ok, I'll see what I can do :) December should be a bit more quiet already.
17:15 PerlJam tony-o: any of it.  I was curious if ORMish things have cropped up on anybody's radar yet
17:15 tony-o PerlJam: https://github.com/tony-o/perl6-db-orm-quicky
17:15 PerlJam nine: send me your email address and I'll get you an invite so you can contribute
17:17 moritz PerlJam: too late, I already invited nine++
17:17 nine In Perl 6 we could finally have an ORM with LINQ like query syntax...
17:17 PerlJam moritz++
17:17 tony-o PerlJam: i think i have a pretty good/similar searching mechanism as DBIC
17:17 PerlJam tony-o: do *you* have an account for the advent calendar? :)
17:17 tony-o PerlJam: i don't
17:17 nine I seem to be doing something wrong. I was looking for a volunteer and somehow ended up volunteering myself.
17:18 tony-o nine: lol.
17:18 moritz tony-o: same game, /msg somebody (PerlJam or me) an email address, you'll get an invitation
17:18 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
17:20 tony-o i need to read what you asked nine to do real quick
17:21 moritz tony-o: write an article about someting Perl 6-related for the perl 6 advent calendar
17:21 FROGGS[mobile] GIVE US YOUR FIRST BORN REAL QUICK11!!
17:21 tony-o is it just going on a blog?
17:21 tony-o FROGGS[mobile]: lol
17:21 PerlJam tony-o: Look at https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/m​isc/perl6advent-2014/topic-brainstorming for some ideas of what to write  (if you have commit access to perl6/mu, feel free to add your own ideas too)
17:22 PerlJam tony-o: look at http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/ to get an idea of past advent articles size and shape :)
17:23 colomon oh, 2014 Advent planning started?
17:23 gfldex joined #perl6
17:24 PerlJam colomon: aye.
17:25 PerlJam at least I'm starting to remind people about it.
17:25 colomon PerlJam++
17:30 dalek perl6-bench: 57fa5f1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | microbenchmarks.pl:
17:30 dalek perl6-bench: Add output and expected subs to three more microbenchmarks
17:30 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/pe​rl6-bench/commit/57fa5f1ea5
17:31 japhb timotimo: The above ^^ commit should help you with the infinilooping while_pushme benchmark.  Please let me know if it does not.
17:38 bjz joined #perl6
17:40 rindolf joined #perl6
17:41 tony-o PerlJam: was that what you were looking for or something more substantial? re: orm
17:43 PerlJam tony-o: that'll do, thanks.  :)   I was mostly just curious, but now you've given me a toy to play with  ;)
17:44 tony-o PerlJam: i imagine there is some things you'll run into with querying that could be extended more
17:44 tony-o nine: do you have an example of a good implementation of LINQ?
17:44 tony-o ABAP ?
17:45 panchiniak joined #perl6
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17:59 dalek rakudo/nom: cb1b1c5 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO.pm:
17:59 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix issues with MAKE-CLEAN-PARTS
17:59 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cb1b1c547c
18:03 dalek doc: b8d0d4d | (Steve Mynott)++ | lib/Type/Date.pod:
18:03 dalek doc: truncated-to args as spec and code
18:03 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b8d0d4d55a
18:06 vendethiel o/,#perl6
18:12 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
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18:30 TimToady tweaking qsort in LTM won't make much difference, given compiling the setting gives a preponderance of 0 or 1 fates *total*, with occasional 2's, which might or might not be the same length (didn't measure that)
18:31 FROGGS k
18:31 FROGGS so I leave it as it is
18:31 TimToady excessive numbers of fates does not seem to be a problem, at least for parsing Perl 6
18:31 TimToady I'm sure pathalogical cases could be generated
18:31 TimToady *patho
18:33 TimToady probably the 2's are different lengths, given the longer one is a keyword requiring a whitespace, and the shorter is <identifier> or so
18:34 TimToady might have better luck cutting down the size of the NFA table, which is just a flat array of int64s right now, with lots of wasted bits and probable cache misses
18:35 TimToady or taking the parallel nfa and doing state set caching DFA, like grep does
18:36 TimToady or maybe just cache the state set of the first characters, which probably cuts the first pass way down
18:36 TimToady since most keywords are disjunct in the first char
18:37 TimToady (you can tell I've been thinking about this some while getting over my "flu-like symptoms")
18:38 Alina-malina joined #perl6
18:39 FROGGS yeah, and I have problems to follow :o)
18:40 cxreg is there any replacement for planeteria yet?
18:40 zakharyas joined #perl6
18:40 lizmat going interstellar for a bit&
18:41 TimToady pl6anet.org
18:41 cxreg TimToady++
18:44 Diederich lizmat: amazing, fantastic movie
18:44 Diederich though it won't be for everyone
18:51 guru joined #perl6
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18:55 masak jnthn++ # http://jnthn.net/papers/2013-apw-lessons.pdf
18:56 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
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19:20 dalek roast: 5d89b28 | usev6++ | S19-command-line/dash-e.t:
19:20 dalek roast: Unfudge passing tests for Parrot on Mac OS X
19:20 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5d89b2877e
19:22 dalek Perlito: aabebb0 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | misc/typeglob/dumper.pl:
19:22 dalek Perlito: misc - dumper script tweak
19:22 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/aabebb0fec
19:23 Sqirrel joined #perl6
19:23 nwc10 itz: You're aware that the top link on http://pl6anet.org/ is to http://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2014/11/10/2014​-45-perl%25e2%2580%25af6-gets-a-release-year/  which is a 404 ?
19:23 nwc10 itz: something has got double URL encoded
19:25 ugator joined #perl6
19:28 nwc10 something seeming to be U+202F
19:40 ugexe the perl6-most-wanted module list seems outdated. if i were to go through it and remove items how should I treat WIP? For example: under algorithms Levenshtein is marked as WIP although it is complete, but other items like Config::INI i dont really know enough to determine completeness.
19:40 masak m: say chr(0x202F)
19:40 camelia rakudo-moar cb1b1c: OUTPUT« ␤»
19:41 masak ugexe: (a) even a partial update is better than no update at all. (b) feel free to ask here for specific statuses -- maybe someone knows.
19:41 masak also, ++ugexe
19:42 vendethiel masak, any reason you switched to prefix increment these days?
19:43 PerlJam vendethiel: prefix:<++> is appropriate for work that will be done in the future IMHO
19:43 PerlJam :)
19:43 masak what PerlJam++ said.
19:43 vendethiel That's... an interesting view
19:43 PerlJam It's just a normal pun
19:43 masak as far as I know, that's a "standard" that evolved here on #perl6.
19:44 masak but my view is limited.
19:44 vendethiel Interestingly, I don't think I've seen it before
19:48 FROGGS hmmm, I've seen that before somewhere:
19:48 FROGGS ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling lib/Cache/Memcached.pm
19:48 FROGGS Unsupported use of /i; in Perl 6 please use :i
19:48 FROGGS at lib/Cache/Memcached.pm:479
19:48 FROGGS ------>         $ip ~~ s:g [ \[ | \] ] = '' i⏏f $ip.defined;
19:48 FROGGS m: my $foo = ""; $foo ~~ s:g [ \[ | \] ] = '' if $foo.defined
19:48 camelia rakudo-moar cb1b1c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/3RGHPjSBid�Unsupported use of /i; in Perl 6 please use :i�at /tmp/3RGHPjSBid:1�------> [32mfoo = ""; $foo ~~ s:g [ \[ | \] ] = '' i[33m�[31mf $foo.defined[0m�»
19:49 FROGGS std: my $foo = ""; $foo ~~ s:g [ \[ | \] ] = '' if $foo.defined
19:49 FROGGS hmpf
19:50 camelia joined #perl6
19:51 camelia std : OUTPUT«Can't chdir to '/home/camelia/std/snap': No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 166.␤    EvalbotExecuter::_auto_execute(HASH(0x1c009c8), "my \$foo = \"\"; \$foo ~~ s:g [ \\[ | \\] ] = '' if \$foo.defined", GLOB(0x7e30ae0), "/tmp/H1ieJ8I0fq", "std") call…»
19:53 PerlJam FROGGS: maybe change old_rx_mods to look for a word boundary after the character class since it's comparing against single characters anyway.
19:54 PerlJam (Is it a bug that we don't look for repeated modifiers?)
19:54 thou joined #perl6
19:55 masak FROGGS: ooh -- can I rakubmit that one?
19:55 FROGGS masak: surely :o)
19:55 * masak does
19:55 FROGGS ++masak :P
19:58 masak https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=123168
19:59 FROGGS masak++
19:59 masak :)
20:00 FROGGS hopefully I can close it in a bit
20:00 TimToady maybe check for <?terminator> there
20:01 FROGGS -        <.old_rx_mods>?
20:01 FROGGS +        [ <?{ $<sibble><infixish> }> || <.old_rx_mods>? ]
20:01 TimToady or rather, <!terminator>
20:01 TimToady m: s/foo/bar/ if 42;
20:01 camelia rakudo-moar cb1b1c: ( no output )
20:01 TimToady m: s/foo/bar/if 42;
20:01 camelia rakudo-moar cb1b1c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/kOi4w6idgX�Unsupported use of /i; in Perl 6 please use :i�at /tmp/kOi4w6idgX:1�------> [32ms/foo/bar/i[33m�[31mf 42;[0m�»
20:02 FROGGS I hope we don't want to make that one work :o)
20:02 TimToady I guess the space is not eaten in that case
20:02 j4janicej hot damn i'm tired
20:03 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
20:03 FROGGS j4janicej: you're not at work hopefully?
20:03 PerlJam also, should we even check for old regex mods on the assignment form of s/// ?  It's unlikely that a P5 person would make that mistake in that context IMHO
20:03 j4janicej FROGGS: egh, no
20:03 TimToady well, hopefully nobody wants to use postfix:<i> on s/// :
20:03 FROGGS j4janicej: well then, off to bed :P
20:03 TimToady :)
20:04 j4janicej TimToady: yo
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20:08 dalek rakudo/nom: cd6da9a | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
20:08 dalek rakudo/nom: fix parsing of s{}="" plus statement mod if
20:08 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:08 dalek rakudo/nom: We should not check for old regex modifiers (/i) when we have the assignment form of a substitution.
20:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Fixes RT #123168.
20:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cd6da9a7f8
20:08 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=123168
20:08 masak FROGGS++
20:08 dalek Perlito: 24a46f3 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | misc/typeglob/dumper.pl:
20:08 dalek Perlito: misc - dumper script tweak
20:08 dalek Perlito: review: https://github.com/fglock/​Perlito/commit/24a46f39b5
20:14 dalek roast: f5e132d | (Tobias Leich)++ | S05-substitution/subst.t:
20:14 dalek roast: RT #123168, test parsing of s{}="" if ....
20:14 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=123168
20:14 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f5e132dce7
20:17 virtualsue joined #perl6
20:21 tony-o FROGGS: are you doing libxml?
20:21 FROGGS tony-o: yes
20:21 pecastro joined #perl6
20:25 timotimo updated the weekly post a bit: added the link to moritz' article on server donations, changed the permalink (naughty me!) and something else i forgot about
20:30 FROGGS [Tux]: done: https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-Slang-Tuxic
20:31 FROGGS [Tux]: though you will see that you have to add many (otherwise not needed) parenthesis to let it DWYM
20:32 FROGGS [Tux]: like this is wrong: is (42.fmt: '-%d-'), '-42-', 'foo.bar: baz';
20:32 FROGGS [Tux]: so I have to do this, which is ugly: is( (42.fmt: '-%d-'), '-42-', 'foo.bar: baz');
20:33 masak feels just like Perl 5.
20:33 FROGGS yeah :S
20:33 colomon why does that need the extra parens?
20:34 FROGGS colomon: because that slangs allows whitespace after identifiers
20:34 zakharyas joined #perl6
20:34 FROGGS (in sub and method calls)
20:34 masak it works for method calls too now?
20:34 FROGGS yes
20:34 masak FROGGS++!
20:35 colomon oh!  the first way is equivalent to is(42.fmt: '-%d-') … other stuff ?
20:35 dalek specs: 36aa886 | usev6++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
20:35 dalek specs: [S32::Exception] Add X::Regex::SolitaryQuantifier
20:35 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/36aa886fdb
20:35 FROGGS I just had to copy&pase token methodop, add a \s* before <args>, and remove the :dba (because only nqp can handle it)
20:35 FROGGS colomon: aye
20:35 colomon FROGGS: gotcha
20:42 kurahaupo joined #perl6
20:44 FROGGS m: say "abcd" ~~ m/[abc]**{5}/
20:44 camelia rakudo-moar cb1b1c: OUTPUT«False␤»
20:44 FROGGS m: say "abcabcabcabcabcd" ~~ m/[abc]**{5}/
20:44 camelia rakudo-moar cb1b1c: OUTPUT«「abcabcabcabcabc」␤␤»
20:44 FROGGS m: say "abcabcabcabcabcabcd" ~~ m/[abc]**{5}/
20:44 camelia rakudo-moar cb1b1c: OUTPUT«「abcabcabcabcabc」␤␤»
20:46 nine tony-o: I'd say it's done quite well in C#
20:46 telex joined #perl6
20:48 tony-o nine: that syntax looks pretty doable in p6 already, is it DB agnostic?  i'm not familiar with linq and haven't written anything in c# for 4 years
20:48 masak LINQ is db-agnostic, yes.
20:48 vendethiel you mean LINQ-to-sql is?
20:49 masak yes, I guess so.
20:49 dalek doc: 05e18c9 | usev6++ | / (2 files):
20:49 dalek doc: Add exception X::Syntax::Regex::SolitaryQuantifier
20:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/05e18c9064
20:49 tony-o nine: have you used ABAP's version of that? (is that considered LINQ?)
20:55 moritz I have a problem with htmlify.p6 in doc/perl6
20:55 moritz it dies with "dot command failed! (did you install Graphviz?)"
20:55 moritz it runs the command dot -Tsvg -ohtml/images/type-graph-Mu.svg /tmp/p6-doc-graphviz-2801
20:56 moritz when I run that command myself, it works fine, with exit status zero
20:56 moritz any idea why it might fail?
20:56 nine tony-o: no, never seen any ABAP
20:57 FROGGS moritz: dot is not in PATH when invoked the failing way?
20:57 moritz https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/ma​ster/lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm#L96 that's the line that fails
20:57 rurban joined #perl6
20:58 masak 'night, #perl6
20:58 FROGGS gnight masak
20:58 moritz FROGGS: it should, since it's in PATH when I invoke it form the same shell
20:58 FROGGS hmmm
21:01 FROGGS moritz: does it load the precompiled version of Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm?
21:01 moritz FROGGS: there is no precompiled version, afaict
21:01 FROGGS okay
21:02 * moritz does the next obvious step and say()s the return value of run()
21:02 cognominal joined #perl6
21:02 FROGGS maybe add this before the call to run: run "which", "dot" or die "huh"
21:02 FROGGS ;
21:03 moritz Proc::Status.new(exit => -1, pid => Any, signal => 244)
21:04 espadrine_ joined #perl6
21:05 FROGGS maybe run it under shell() to get an error message printed
21:05 FROGGS jdv79: you are still there?
21:06 Mso150 joined #perl6
21:10 ghostlines joined #perl6
21:13 moritz FROGGS: shell 'which dot' says  /usr/bin/dot
21:13 moritz FROGGS: but run 'which', 'dot' says ./usr/bin/dot
21:14 FROGGS moritz: it does not do that on my box
21:14 FROGGS perl6-m -e 'run "which", "dot"'
21:14 FROGGS /usr/bin/dot
21:15 moritz FROGGS: oh wait, maybe the dot comes from the progress report somewhere else
21:28 FROGGS the bug that pops up in Rakudo_cont_is_rw_scalar is nasty
21:30 itz nwc10: thanks .. I blame Daveorg's perlanet software :) I'll look into a p6weekly workaround
21:31 jdv79 FROGGS: what?
21:31 FROGGS jdv79: you wanted to talk about slangs
21:32 timotimo itz: i changed the permalink, the rss feed should have the new (and working) url
21:32 jdv79 i was looking for info on them, yes.
21:32 jdv79 as someone that has a very basic knowledge of perl 6 and related i found the Tuxic code intriguing.
21:33 itz timotimo: ah yes thanks
21:33 jdv79 maybe a line by line explanation of how that file works in the context of someone that knows very little perl 6 would help more than just me...
21:34 FROGGS k
21:34 cognominal I don't understand the point of atkeyish in Tuxic?  Why atkeyish($/, 'identifier') instead of $/<identifier> ?
21:35 jdv79 see:)
21:35 FROGGS cognominal: because $/ is an NQPMath
21:35 FROGGS since Perl6::Grammar is written in nqp
21:36 FROGGS jdv79: first you must know that grammars in perl6 (or nqp) are class like... they have methods (tokens, rules, and normal methods) and all other stuff
21:36 cognominal Ok. FROGGS++
21:36 FROGGS they can inherit from another grammar, and can also do roles
21:37 FROGGS and like how we can mix in a role into an object of a certain class, we can do that with our grammar
21:37 FROGGS so, the entire logic of Slang::Tuxic is in an EXPORT sub
21:37 cognominal I can't wait the day when Perl 6 will be written in Perl 6 instead of nqp
21:38 jdv79 i thought the point of nqp was that it was intentionally not full Perl 6
21:38 FROGGS and that is because when you use a module (like Slang::Tuxic), the Perl6 grammar will parse your use statement, and call the EXPORT sub from inside the Perl6 grammar
21:39 FROGGS to retrieve the symbols that it would make available to your program
21:39 FROGGS jdv79: that's correct
21:39 FROGGS nqp is our toolchain to build the guts of compilers like rakudo
21:40 cognominal jv79, yes, it is necessary to boot full Perl 6 but it causse all sort of problems at the frontier, like the necessity of atkeyish in Tuxic
21:40 FROGGS back to my explanation... when the Perl6::Grammar calls the EXPORT sub, all its innards (like dynamic variables) are available inside the EXPORT sub
21:40 FROGGS that might be by accident, but, who cares :O
21:41 FROGGS err, :P
21:41 dalek doc: ee0ea36 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Date.pod:
21:41 dalek doc: fix truncated-to signature
21:41 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ee0ea36c41
21:41 jdv79 FROGGS: where is EXPORT doc'ed?  i did some grepping and didn't see it.
21:42 FROGGS good question
21:42 cognominal jdv79, in S11 and S12
21:43 timotimo FROGGS: what parts are missing until we can have multiple versions of the same module loaded properly?
21:43 jdv79 ah
21:43 jdv79 thanks
21:44 FROGGS timotimo: this is already possible, you just need to put a CompUnitRepo::Local::Installation into your %*CUSTOM_LIB<site>
21:45 FROGGS jdv79: so, we can access the current grammar in our EXPORT sub, can mix into it (to replace/add methods), and that grammar will stay active after our EXPORT finishes
21:45 FROGGS that's it
21:46 bjz joined #perl6
21:47 kshannon joined #perl6
21:47 TuxCM FROGGS, mail sent. (and beauty is in the eye of the beholder)
21:47 jdv79 thanks.  and what parts of slangs are you thinking about changing?
21:47 FROGGS TuxCM: *g*, true, very true :o)
21:47 * TuxCM thinks «function( arg, arg );» is extremely ugly
21:47 cibs joined #perl6
21:48 FROGGS jdv79: ohh, no idea... I'll continue with v5, but I have no ideas what else could be interesting
21:48 Mso150 joined #perl6
21:50 jdv79 I was wondering what you meant by "I try to make it user friendly these days, but it is not yet the case"
21:50 timotimo FROGGS: could you please write a short example of having two versions of a module in use in the same process?
21:50 tony-o FROGGS: are you saying it's possible to load the perl6 grammar or am i lazy reading?
21:51 timotimo "you just have to" is not close enough to a working example for me :P
21:51 FROGGS jdv79: v5 is a totally different approach btw, it does not mix into the current language (Perl 6), but replaces it entirely for a given scope
21:51 FROGGS tony-o: only in an EXPORT sub, but yes
21:51 FROGGS jdv79: I want to provide a helper module (called Slangy) that let you write slangs more easily, without knowing any nqp
21:52 FROGGS timotimo: gimme a sec or two
21:52 timotimo cool, thanks :)
21:52 tony-o FROGGS: how would i call that up to parse a file?
21:52 cognominal FROGGS, what is the purpose of the keyword slang if neither Tuxic nor V5 use it?
21:53 tony-o i know you're inundated with other questions but i don't have time for  perl6::tidy because of that piece of the job :-)
21:53 FROGGS cognominal: the purpose will be to add sugar, helper methods and sane defaults
21:53 FROGGS cognominal: but it is not there yet
21:54 cognominal ok, FROGGS++
21:54 TuxCM ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling test-t.pl
21:54 TuxCM Unsupported use of -> as postfix; in Perl 6 please use either . to call a method, or whitespace to delimit a pointy block
21:54 TuxCM at test-t.pl:103
21:54 TuxCM ------>         for (@ch.kv ->⏏ $i, Str $chunk) {
21:54 TuxCM expecting any of:
21:54 FROGGS tony-o: you should be able to call .parse on it
21:54 TuxCM postfix
21:55 TuxCM dotty method or postfix
21:55 tony-o FROGGS: how do i actually load the grammar?
21:55 FROGGS tony-o: it already is in %*LANG<MAIN> in your EXPORT sub
21:56 FROGGS TuxCM: we can try to turn it around and not allow whitespace after a sub or method name, but to allow whitespace before an arglist...
21:56 FROGGS TuxCM: but I'm not sure this will out
21:57 * TuxCM => $HOME
21:57 TuxCM HAVE FUN!
21:57 FROGGS TuxCM: looks like I need more tests... will add that one
22:00 FROGGS TuxCM: please pull
22:01 tony-o FROGGS: i get an error if i try to use %*LANG<MAIN> in an exported sub ..
22:02 FROGGS tony-o: not an exported sub, an EXPORT sub
22:02 tony-o oh!
22:02 FROGGS like this: https://github.com/FROGGS/p6-Slang-Tu​xic/blob/master/lib/Slang/Tuxic.pm#L1
22:07 Timbus joined #perl6
22:15 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 47 commits to panda/eleven by FROGGS
22:21 * lizmat is back on Earth
22:23 dalek rakudo/nom: 10543b3 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
22:23 dalek rakudo/nom: make filemtime more friendly for to-json
22:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/10543b3998
22:36 lizmat I just had the oddest error when running a spectest (which it completely aborted:
22:36 lizmat ===(   27697;177  13/60  0/?  0/?  0/?  0/?  0/?   1/35  0/? )==========Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /usr/local/lib/perl5/5.20.0​/TAP/Parser/Multiplexer.pm line 138.
22:36 lizmat make: *** [m-spectest] Error 9
22:37 lizmat anybody seen anything like that before? leont?
22:37 FROGGS I've not seen that yet
22:37 thou joined #perl6
22:44 lizmat I never seen it before either
22:44 lizmat *'ve
22:53 tadzik computer, messages
22:53 yoleaux 7 Nov 2014 18:04Z <azawawi> tadzik: it would be nice to have bin/script => bin/script.bat in win32 environment. This is one of the things that prevents the inclusion of farabi6 in Task::Star
22:53 tadzik hmm
23:01 leont joined #perl6
23:05 japhb .oO( "OK, IRC ..." )
23:17 timotimo hm. a github issue doesn't get reopened when i add a comment to it
23:19 vendethiel no, you have to reopen it manually
23:20 bowtie joined #perl6
23:24 timotimo there was no button
23:24 FROGGS O.o
23:24 timotimo seems like only the project owners & contributors are allowed
23:32 thou joined #perl6
23:50 FROGGS timotimo: the CompUnitRepo::Local::Installation seems to have bitrotted, I hope to get it into a good shape until tomorrow evening
23:55 japhb .oO( But then after that, I'm going to let it fall apart again. )
23:58 FROGGS ohh, it seems to do...
23:58 timotimo that's good. thank you!

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