Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-11-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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02:08 dalek doc: b0e85c0 | raydiak++ | html/css/style.css:
02:08 dalek doc: Fix clipping of overly-wide SVGs
02:08 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b0e85c0c35
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02:25 cognominal I keep forgetting what is the Perl 6 equivalent of popen(3). Help!
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02:46 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:54 JimmyZ cognominal: openpipe?
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03:53 cognominal openpipe is a nqp thing
04:02 TimToady http://perlcabal.org/syn/S32/IO.html#IO%3A%3APipe maybe?
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04:27 cognominal sounds like it but I don't  see an IO::Pipe in the setting
04:31 cognominal lizmat++ anyway for all her work for IOs
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04:59 JimmyZ cognominal: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/b​lob/nom/src/core/IO/Handle.pm#L12
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05:28 cognominal sounds good. Need to sleep on that. JimmyZ++, TimToady++
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08:44 smls o/
08:46 smls m: say (1..50).grep({"a" x $_ !~~ /^ [a | (aa+) $0+] $/})
08:46 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: OUTPUT«2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47␤»
08:46 smls ^^ The one true way to do a prime number sieve! :D
08:50 huf meh. just change the definition so the algo is simpler and faster :D all odd numbers are prime.
08:52 dalek nqp/longlit: f4c6cbc | TimToady++ | src/QRegex/NFA.nqp:
08:52 dalek nqp/longlit: correctly propagate longlit info in NFAs
08:52 dalek nqp/longlit: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f4c6cbcb1d
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08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit: 7137b21 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit: replace INDRULE with var carrying actual coderef
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit:
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit: This is so that the nfa routines can call .NFA on the coderef to extract
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit: the NFA and merge properly when <foo> refers to a lexical regex.
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7137b213f8
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit: 4da5e49 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit: coloncircumfix was stealing :() pseudo-sigs
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit:
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit: (This was due to the new longest-literal tiebreaking rule.)
08:57 dalek rakudo/longlit: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4da5e49f6a
08:58 TimToady the longlit branch is mostly done, but still fails 8 tests due in part to not having fixed INTERPOLATE yet
08:59 TimToady sleep &
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09:52 lizmat good *, #perl6 from the Frantic offices in Helsinki for day #0 of the Nordic Perl Workshop
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09:59 dsm what's the language NQP compiler written in?
10:01 timotimo NQP
10:03 dsm then who compiles NQP into back-end bytecodes?
10:03 timotimo NQP does
10:03 timotimo it's bootstrapped
10:03 timotimo so in the NQP repository, there's stage0 NQPs for parrot, moarvm and jvm
10:04 timotimo the earliest NQP compiler was written in PIR
10:10 dsm isn't PIR a Parrot Intermediate Representation?
10:11 timotimo yes
10:12 dsm ok, then stage0 NPQ compiler for MoarVM is written in moarvm bytecode?
10:13 timotimo no, we used the parrot stage0 NQP compiler with a cross-compiling setup to generate MoarVM bytecode from NQP source code
10:13 timotimo same with the JVM version
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10:14 dsm thank you.
10:14 timotimo you're welcome :)
10:25 cognominal where is the farabia editor?
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10:26 timotimo i don't think it's up always
10:27 cognominal p6weekly talks about it but gives no  url
10:27 timotimo it's very easy to run off of a git clone of github:azawawi/farabi6 however
10:27 cognominal ho, I kept typing farabia instead of farabi :(
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10:30 timotimo ah! :)
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10:43 rindolf lizmat: good morning.
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11:30 ab5tract FROGGS: i'm still struggling with the XML parser.. it hangs somewhere in the elements call. it knows it should return some number of elements, but that part never seems to complete: https://gist.github.com/ab5​tract/cbf4867b441ab2ea84d7
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11:31 ab5tract i swear i'm not trying to make problems ...
11:31 FROGGS ab5tract: I can look at that, but just not now, I try to fix a problem with parrot on windows
11:31 FROGGS :o)
11:33 ab5tract hehe, ok
11:33 ab5tract this is for a (potential) advent calendar entry, which concerns itself with typesetting the advent calendar :)
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11:59 woolfy lizmat at Nordic Perl Workshop promoting Perl 6.  People did not believe Larry was actually coming to FOSDEM (Myself has same feeling...  :-)  ).  Nice hackathon, 11 people now.
12:00 jnthn woolfy: Cool!
12:00 * jnthn wishes he coulda made it
12:01 * woolfy wishes jnthn (and others) coulda made it to NPW2015
12:01 colomon woolfy: \o/
12:02 jnthn woolfy: Nordic? Or Netherlands? :)
12:02 jnthn oh wait, coulda
12:03 jnthn woolfy: It's...still 2014 :P
12:03 woolfy 2014!!!
12:03 lizmat :-)
12:03 * jnthn is easily confused. It's only early morning in jnthn virtual timezone. :)
12:03 woolfy NPW = Nordic Perl Workshop ; NLPW = NetherLands Perl Workshop.
12:03 * jnthn hopes to make both of those in 2015 :)
12:03 * woolfy is happy to confuse everybody
12:04 woolfy jnthn, you and others are already coming to FOSDEM.  When you would come and speak at NLPW, that would be bonus.  \o/   jnthn++
12:04 virtualsue FOSDEM++
12:05 woolfy jnthn: get your 2015 calendar and mark April 10 for NLPW.  Would be nice.
12:06 jnthn bah, so far somebody put exactly one thing in my April schedule and its then. Thankfully, it's something I can easily get moved. :)
12:06 * jnthn adds NLPW in :)
12:07 woolfy jnthn++
12:07 jnthn Cool, it's also the week after easter.
12:07 woolfy (again)
12:08 woolfy And if you are busy with your calendar, you might want to mark 8-11 May 2015 for the Nordic Perl Workshop & OSDC Norway in Oslo, organised by Salve  sjn++
12:08 jnthn woolfy: How long do I have left to think up something to talk about at FOSDEM?
12:09 jnthn woolfy: ooh, thanks. Added that too
12:09 woolfy I set myself the task for the hackathon to get that all done today, send you and the other speakers a mail to ask for title and summary and bio.  I think I want to have that info before the end of the month.
12:10 jnthn eek
12:10 woolfy Well, eek d'oh,...  they are going to make a booklet and we really want to be in the booklet.  And they really want all community devrooms to have their schedule ready in the beginning of december.
12:10 jnthn Well, mebbe I'll think up something during some of my work flights/trian trips :)
12:11 jnthn Suggestions/requests are welcome too :)
12:12 woolfy The system of FOSDEM is...  ehmn...  to say polite...  sub-optimal.  People who think that ACT is difficult to work with, should have a look at pentabarf (FOSDEM's system).  Talk about nerdy...  what, easy user interface you ask?  Hmmm...
12:12 jnthn Really? The system has "barf" in its name?
12:12 woolfy Yep
12:12 jnthn Is the slogan "Quickly throw up a conference schedule!"?
12:13 woolfy I hope you are not surprised that I heard that slogan several times already in the past years...
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12:13 woolfy (and some even less polite ones)
12:14 lizmat m: class A { has Nil $!a; method a { $!a = A.new }}; say A.new.a   # jnthn, what's wrong in this picture ?
12:14 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$!a'; expected 'Any' but got 'A'␤  in method a at /tmp/_HZ5prR2yI:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/_HZ5prR2yI:1␤␤»
12:14 woolfy My co-organiser, Claudio Ramirez (awesome man!) always does the pentabarf-barf, so I don't have to do it.  This year I had my first experience with it, when I added Larry's talk to the system.  Indeed, it is barf.
12:15 timotimo woolfy: wow, they use pentabarf for fosdem? i thought that was only a thing in CCC events
12:15 lizmat jnthn: are we not allowed to have a Nil as a type in attributes ?
12:15 woolfy Talking about calendars...  it would be very nice if at least some of you would be able to come to the Perl QA Hackathon in Berlin: 16-19 April 2015.
12:15 jnthn lizmat: "as a type"?
12:15 timotimo isn't nil an insatnce?
12:15 timotimo instance*
12:16 woolfy It is mostly invitation-only, and Liz and I have given several of your names to the organisers, so I hope several of you have been contacted by now.
12:16 lizmat m: my Nil $a; say $a
12:16 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
12:17 lizmat m: my Nil $a; $a = 42; say $a
12:17 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$a'; expected 'Any' but got 'Int'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/1oea0nomfU:1␤␤»
12:17 lizmat ah, same problem  :-(
12:17 jnthn Why's that a problem?
12:17 jnthn m: say Int ~~ Nil
12:17 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:17 lizmat I'm trying to get the value Nil into a variable
12:18 jnthn Yes, well, at some point, we ended up with darn magical assignment semantics for Nil
12:18 lizmat I thought "my Nil $a' would be the way
12:18 jnthn Sure, if you *only* want to be able to put Nil in there :P
12:18 jnthn Basically, the design we've ended up with makes Nil just about unassignable.
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12:18 lizmat well, let me put it this way:
12:19 lizmat I need an attribute that's Nil until I assign it
12:19 jnthn Which I thought was kinda the point...
12:19 jnthn I'm not sure you can do that.
12:19 lizmat so I can do $!that.method // (fix $!that and try again).method
12:19 jnthn Why not $!that.?method
12:20 * jluis_ started to make rakudo on moarVM on a raspberry pi 3Gb swap on a usb hardisk Configure ran for an hour
12:20 lizmat jluis_++
12:20 jnthn jluis_: I'm guessing you gave Configure options like --gen-moar and --gen-nqp, meaning that it spent that hour building dependencies?
12:20 lizmat because the method *may* exist on Any, but I don't want it to use that method then
12:21 jnthn lizmat: Nil inherits from Any and dispatches to those methods normally; the quiet dispatch stuff is failover
12:21 jnthn m: say Nil.list.perl
12:21 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: OUTPUT«().list␤»
12:21 lizmat ah, good point
12:21 lizmat hmmm....
12:21 lizmat ok
12:24 timotimo http://principiadiscordia.com/book/11.php ← the origin of pentabarf
12:24 ab5tract jnthn: "Basically, the design we've ended up with makes Nil just about unassignable." couldn't this be addressed with coercer that sets Nil at the nqp level?
12:24 ab5tract *a coercer
12:25 jluis_ jnthn, yes just following http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/
12:25 ab5tract i guess that still breaks types though...
12:26 jnthn jluis_: OK, then building dependencies explain it. I can't remember how long building on a raspberry pi took, but I know the answer was something like "quite a while" :)
12:26 jnthn jluis_: Though, did you build for a single backend?
12:27 jluis_ yes  I'm building it only for moarVM
12:29 jnthn OK
12:29 jnthn That tends to eat the least memory, and so need the least swap, and I guess the build is swap-bound...
12:31 jluis_ on my PC javaVM and parrot failed because I didn't have enough memory so I did not try it on the raspi
12:32 timotimo raspi has very low ram indeed
12:32 timotimo but its cpu is also ... quite weak
12:37 ab5tract jnthn: perl6-debug-m is broken for me: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/ab5tract/cb​f4867b441ab2ea84d7/raw/eee8ac6c61613f071b7c0eb​2da0e7a88b9e03e6e/And%20perl6-debug-m%20breaks.
12:38 jluis_ I think the pi will be on make stage for at least a day
12:40 ab5tract i also needed to install Debugger::UI::CommandLine before it would even load
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12:44 * ab5tract suspects he may be cursed
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12:47 woolfy Exciting...  people asked to start the Rakudo Install Fest at the Nordic Perl Workshop.  Liz is going to show 5 or 6 people on how to install Rakudo.
12:47 * woolfy is proud!
12:50 colomon lizmat++ woolfy++
12:50 woolfy Ow, it is Liz & pnu together instructing and guiding 8 people (!) how to do this.
12:50 woolfy lizmat++ and pnu++
12:55 woolfy (just saw moarvm and nqp being downloaded and built onto 8 computers)
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13:18 woolfy OK, most people here now have MoarVM and NQP installed and got their Perl 6 working.  Nice.  lizmat is helping the people with installation-problems.  Some people really look happy.
13:20 FROGGS :o)
13:21 ab5tract woolfy: sweet! :D
13:21 ab5tract does perl6-debug-m work for any of them? ;)
13:23 woolfy I'm not going to ask.  :-)
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13:24 ab5tract woolfy: :)
13:24 woolfy (they still have to learn Perl 6, like Vendethiel's introduction, before they should be thrown into the deep end, or even the shallow end)
13:24 woolfy Vendethiel++
13:24 ab5tract that is the Perl 5 to Perl 6 series, right?
13:25 woolfy Yep
13:25 woolfy And these people are all Perl 5 people.
13:25 ab5tract great stuff indeed. i have vague plans about bringing in a few notes i've made about learning p6 from a p5 POV
13:27 jnthn ab5tract: I've no idea what's going on there...looks like the kind of thing that happens when there's some version skew with installed things...
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13:37 ab5tract jnthn: okay, i will try a brand new rakudobrew
13:42 FROGGS cognominal: pipe gives you an IO::Pipe object, but you can only read the stdout of the child process right now
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14:09 USERNAME joined #perl6
14:10 USERNAME hi
14:10 yoleaux 10 Aug 2014 17:25Z <bondagebrat> USERNAME: <message>
14:10 geekosaur o.O
14:11 FROGGS hi USERNAME
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14:15 ab5tract jnthn: it works :D
14:18 jnthn ab5tract: \o/
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14:50 woolfy The Rakudo Install Fest at the Nordic Perl Workshop by lizmat++ and pnu++ has now grown into a "Perl 6 for Beginners" and both lizmat and pnu are teaching the 6 remaining attendees quite a lot of Perl 6 info
14:51 woolfy (interactive session, people are asking good questions)
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14:58 ab5tract jnthn: so the debugger requires the modules be precompiled to .moarvm . where i just finished writing a shell function to remove moarvm files so that I can see my changes to panda modules
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15:01 ab5tract now i will write another to quickly compile new ones :)
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15:10 dalek nqp/openpipe: fd8e5ed | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
15:10 dalek nqp/openpipe: implement openpipe on parrot+windows
15:10 dalek nqp/openpipe: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fd8e5ed403
15:10 dj_goku FROGGS: testers.perl6.org seems to be down/not responding.
15:11 FROGGS :(
15:11 FROGGS the service seems to get unstable
15:12 FROGGS dj_goku: it works after a restart
15:13 dalek nqp: dd7f5b1 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/parrot/ (2 files):
15:13 dalek nqp: first (explosive) attempt to port openpipe to nqp@parrot
15:13 dalek nqp:
15:13 dalek nqp: We need this op to actually open a pipe with a given CWD and ENV,
15:13 dalek nqp: the open("rp") whih parrot provides does not let us pass these.
15:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/dd7f5b1728
15:13 dalek nqp: c0bc3d9 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (27 files):
15:13 dalek nqp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/nqp into openpipe
15:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c0bc3d975a
15:13 dalek nqp: 4818829 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (5 files):
15:13 dalek nqp: add working openpipe op for nqp on parrot on linux
15:13 dalek nqp:
15:13 dalek nqp: That means that we have openpipe on all platforms/backends except
15:13 dalek nqp: for parrot on windows.
15:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4818829d33
15:13 dalek nqp: 4019ecc | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (6 files):
15:13 dalek nqp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/nqp into openpipe
15:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4019ecc2f5
15:13 dalek nqp: fd8e5ed | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
15:13 dalek nqp: implement openpipe on parrot+windows
15:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fd8e5ed403
15:14 dj_goku FROGGS: cool thanks
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: e5ae2e7 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: unfudge open("rp") on parrot
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e5ae2e7306
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: ec665f7 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (46 files):
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into openpipe
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ec665f71b7
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 38e77b6 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: bump nqp revision for openpipe on parrot
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/38e77b645b
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15:16 travis-ci NQP build errored. Tobias Leich 'implement openpipe on parrot+windows'
15:16 travis-ci http://travis-ci.org/perl6/nqp/builds/41161103 https://github.com/perl6/nqp/com​pare/28ff0493c2d6...fd8e5ed403cd
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15:16 rurban aarg, github again
15:17 FROGGS yeah, "github.com: Temporary failure in name resolution"
15:17 FROGGS though, the other job has passed
15:18 rurban smoked fine on darwin
15:20 FROGGS thanks for checking :o)
15:20 FROGGS I build now HEAD on all backends, the will do spectests (except on jvm)
15:20 FROGGS when linux is fine I'll care about the path issues on windows
15:28 lizmat NPW hackathon shutting down&
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15:41 lucas_ Good sunday to everyone
15:41 lucas_ m: say 1,2,3; say (1,2,3)
15:41 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: OUTPUT«123␤1 2 3␤»
15:41 lucas_ shouldn't the parcel just disappear in list context?
15:41 lucas_ m: say 1,((),(),(),(),()),2
15:41 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: OUTPUT«1    2␤»
15:44 * ab5tract shakes his head clear
15:44 ab5tract FROGGS: the XML parser was hanging because i was doing @elements.perl.say
15:45 FROGGS ab5tract: which still can mean that @elements has recursive structures
15:45 ab5tract switching it to @elements.say works.
15:46 ab5tract FROGGS: indeed. perhaps it would be good to have some shortcircuting built into .perl()
15:46 TimToady say is not a slurpy
15:46 ab5tract in short, there hasn't been a problem with the XML parser at all
15:52 ab5tract TimToady: calling .perl() on a list returned from XML::Document causes a hang with or without a 'say' :/
16:02 ab5tract TimToady: can i ask you to clarify how the slurpiness context of say would relate?
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16:12 TimToady say treats each of its arguments separately without relying on flattening
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16:13 FROGGS ab5tract: somebody was working on that recently
16:13 FROGGS ab5tract: maybe searching in the logs will reveal something
16:13 ab5tract yes, but i'm still confused about how that relates to .perl() hanging on recursive structures
16:14 ugexe heh, i think .perl hanging it got brought up yesterday
16:14 FROGGS m: my @a; @a[0] = @a; say @a
16:14 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
16:15 ab5tract okay .. so say on any list is going to timeout?
16:15 ab5tract ah crap, sorry, no just on recursive ones
16:15 FROGGS it was also mentioned a few weeks ago, with an attempt to fix it
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16:16 FROGGS m: my @a; @a[0] = @a; my @b = @a.flat
16:16 camelia rakudo-moar 7dd729: ( no output )
16:16 FROGGS searching for 'Dumper' might give a result... IIRC it was mentioned while talking about how to make .gist and .perl work
16:17 ab5tract FROGGS: i don't actually need this functionality at all. it was just a test i was running at the end of the script so that i could get an idea of the internal structure of @elements
16:17 ab5tract which was hanging, and i didn't realize there might be this issue with .perl()
16:18 ab5tract anyway, now i've been exposed to the (lovely) debugger and written a few help shell functions
16:18 ab5tract *helpful
16:20 FROGGS ab5tract: damn, I wanted to trick you into compiler hacking :P
16:21 ab5tract FROGGS: i'm still writing up my RT ticket for the more dwimmy set comparators :)
16:21 FROGGS :o)
16:22 bjz joined #perl6
16:23 ab5tract the patches are ready though, at least afaict
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16:38 * [Coke] throws out yesterday's incomplete run and kicks off a new one.
16:39 vendethiel joined #perl6
16:39 vendethiel o/, #perl6
16:39 ab5tract \o vendethiel
16:43 ugexe ive somehow got XML segfaulting on parrot
16:43 * vendethiel afk interstellar &
16:47 immortal joined #perl6
16:48 ugexe over continuation
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16:56 ab5tract ugexe: it might be an issue i have run into
16:57 ab5tract https://gist.githubusercontent.com/ab5tract/cbf4​867b441ab2ea84d7/raw/d96a38e56abd002c5578504ecd0​cc16ed2300c59/diff%20for%20XML.pm6%20debugging
16:58 ab5tract the stuff related to the $doc<xmldecl> .. $doc<xmldecl> is not an array, apparently
16:58 ugexe might be it, its related to .list as well
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16:59 nebuchadnezzar m: say Any // Nil // 0 // 5
16:59 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«0␤»
16:59 nebuchadnezzar shouldn't it be 5?
17:00 ugexe 0 is a defined value
17:00 ugexe m: say Any || Nil || 0 || 5;
17:00 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«5␤»
17:01 ugexe ab5tract: Method 'list' not found for invocant of class 'Continuation'
17:01 nebuchadnezzar so there is an error in http://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/
17:01 ugexe is that what you are running into?
17:01 ab5tract m: say Any // Nil // 0 || 5 # also evocative
17:01 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«5␤»
17:03 ab5tract ugexe: 'use of uninitialized value $v of type Any in string context  in method new at lib/XML.pm6:965'
17:03 ugexe nebuchadnezzar: its explanation is correct (first defiend value) but the codes exclaimed result is indeed wrong
17:04 ab5tract but there was no $v on line 965, just an attempt to access $doc<xmldecl>[0]
17:04 ugexe m: say [//] Nil, Any, False, 0, 5;
17:04 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«False␤»
17:04 ugexe m: say [//] Nil, Any, 0, 5;
17:04 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«0␤»
17:05 ab5tract accessing $doc<xmldecl><*><*> seemed to produce the correct result
17:05 ugexe (as you can see, they contradict themselves earlier)
17:05 ugexe $v makes me think of push but thats a wild guess
17:06 ab5tract ugexe: right, it seemed vaguely autoviv-ish
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17:07 ab5tract tbh, i just assumed that the XML code was in the wrong somehow
17:08 ugexe it could possibly be building the tree wrong based on the xml
17:08 ab5tract and that the grammar returns $doc<*><*>, not $doc<*>[*]<*>[*]
17:09 ab5tract at least for $doc<xmldecl> !
17:09 ugexe like html::parser::xml builds its tree wrong if tags that close themselves <tag />
17:18 ab5tract ugexe: hmmm.. and my patch maybe doesn't work for other cases that i'm testing now. such as installing XML::Query. but that also fails for me even with a clean XML install ...
17:18 ugexe does there happen to be a debian packaging script for p6 and the backends? travis testing modules is taking too long for jvm/parrot due to building :/
17:19 ugexe XML::Query only fails for compiled
17:19 ab5tract ugexe: ah, right
17:19 ugexe i started a panda fork last night to try and and report when that happens
17:21 ugexe you can do it manually though. panda look && prove -e "perl6 -Ilib" t/; panda-build && panda-test;
17:23 ab5tract with my patch to XML, installing XML::Query fails with that same "uninitialized $v" error. however that error appears whenever XML is used (at least on the inputs I have given it so far), including during the running of its own tests
17:23 ab5tract when my patch is *not* applied
17:24 ugexe i used to get that same error but it was just a warning
17:24 ugexe and my tests passed
17:25 ugexe im not sure if we can draw any conclusions from that
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17:26 ab5tract ugexe: fair enough.
17:27 ab5tract i was chasing down the rabbit hole anyway, as i didn't realize what happens to a non-slurpy function when handed a recursive structure.
17:29 ugexe neither did i, i had that same problem yesterday debugging html::parser::xml heh
17:29 ugexe i assumed it had something to do with lazyness
17:29 ugexe although i think froggs mentioned recurssion to both of us yesterday, but in reference to the xml structure
17:46 hoelzro joined #perl6
17:46 moritz sergot: re OpenSSL, it shouldn't do that; either throw an error, or be silent
17:47 moritz sergot: ... or have some debug flag or evn variable
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18:14 masak evening, #perl6
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18:35 FROGGS evening masak
18:35 lizmat joined #perl6
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18:38 masak our clones and I are all worn out. we need a vacation.
18:38 masak my* clones
18:38 * masak .oO( having clones is confusing! )
18:39 tinyblak_ joined #perl6
18:39 FROGGS clones?
18:39 lizmat .oO( bring in the clones )
18:39 lizmat or rather:
18:40 lizmat .oO( Send in the clones :-)
18:40 lizmat so I talked myself into giving an hour-long presentation about Perl 6 tomorrow at the NPQ
18:40 lizmat *NPW
18:40 lizmat called "Perl 6 for Neophytes"
18:41 woolfy lizmat++
18:41 tinyblak joined #perl6
18:41 lizmat I was thinking of taking vendethiel++'s LearnPerl6inYminutes
18:41 lizmat and turn that into a presentation
18:42 FROGGS +1 :o)
18:42 lizmat hope vendethiel doesn't mind (he should be in other spheres now :-)
18:44 jnthn .oO( Is a neophyte a violent scene from The Matrix? )
18:46 lizmat in my dictionary it is simply someone who is new to a subject or activity
18:46 tinyblak_ joined #perl6
18:46 lizmat nothing Matrixy about it...
18:46 virtualsue neo+fight
18:46 lizmat *sigh*   jnthn++
18:47 lizmat :-)
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19:01 masak FROGGS: in my blog queue, I have a blog post coming up about how I'm (secretly) seven identical clones. even so, things are still very busy.
19:02 dalek roast: e75bba5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-io/spurt.t:
19:02 dalek roast: fix fudged block, it must start at BOL
19:02 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e75bba5d2f
19:02 * FROGGS .oO( The Seven Carl Potters )
19:05 * lizmat suspects masak got something from Hermione at one point in time
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19:15 masak lizmat: no, time travel doesn't work. it was all done the hard way, with biological cloning.
19:15 lizmat well, *you* only needed to do it once  :-)
19:15 masak or, um. some "cloning machine" where one steps in and two step out.
19:16 lizmat your clone could have done the others then
19:16 masak sure. if I'm the original one. :P
19:16 lizmat well, that's what you get with lossless cloning  :-)
19:17 lizmat vendethiel++ for http://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/   # so much more than the last time I looked!
19:17 masak it's not just that. we have a policy among us that none of us is the "primary" copy. even if (of course) one of us is.
19:26 lizmat masak: but maybe the primary copy evaporated?  with quantum mechanics, you never know...
19:27 brrt joined #perl6
19:27 brrt \o
19:29 masak lizmat: what happened in our case was that 10 seconds after a clone, the copies had diverged and gone out of sync. I guess that tells you something about free will. or not, I dunno.
19:29 masak brrt: o/
19:30 moritz if you consider that genetic identical clones don't grow any faster than regular humans, it stands to reason taht the "original" masak would be as old as masak's father by now...
19:30 masak yeah, I take it back with the biological route.
19:30 masak there was an atom-for-atom copier involved.
19:30 davido___ joined #perl6
19:30 * brrt is obliged to backlog on this discussion
19:31 FROGGS brrt: 1) there is a branch called execname I think, which creates fake executables... 2) I don't like the name perl6-b
19:32 masak what's perl6-b ?
19:32 brrt perl6-binary
19:32 brrt FROGGS: i had no idea
19:32 immortal joined #perl6
19:33 moritz if you consider that genetic identical clones don't grow any faster than regular humans, it stands to reason taht the "original" masak would be as old as masak's father by now...
19:33 TimToady n: say Any // Nil // 0 || 5
19:33 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤"//" and "||" are non-associative and require parens at /tmp/B39JKmLM_H line 1:â�¤------> [32msay Any // Nil // 0 || [33mâ��[31m5[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/camelia/niecza/boot/lib…»
19:33 TimToady that is the correct response, not rakudo's
19:34 TimToady m: say <a b c> X <d e f> Z <g h i>
19:34 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«a d a g a e a h a f a i b d b g b e b h b f b i c d c g c e c h c f c i␤»
19:34 raiph joined #perl6
19:34 TimToady that is also incorrect
19:34 TimToady n: say <a b c> X <d e f> Z <g h i>
19:34 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤"X" and "Z" are non-associative and require parens at /tmp/j7dtGW7z02 line 1:â�¤------> [32msay <a b c> X <d e f> Z [33mâ��[31m<g h i>[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/camelia/niecza/boo…»
19:34 TimToady niecza++
19:40 raiph .ask FROGGS Is my answer reasonable? (SO question about P6 equivalent to P5's overload::constant http://stackoverflow.com/questions/269​48334/overloading-constants-in-perl-6)
19:40 yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
19:40 lizmat m: my $a = “Foo”  # why don't we allow these quotes ?
19:40 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/DUyjLTluvrâ�¤Malformed initializerâ�¤at /tmp/DUyjLTluvr:1â�¤------> [32mmy $a = [33mâ��[31m“Fooâ€�  # why don't we allow these quotes[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        scoped declaratorâ�¤ …»
19:40 lizmat n: my $a = “Foo”  # just checking
19:40 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Malformed initializer at /tmp/AfXjrQiEPO line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy $a [33mâ��[31m= “Fooâ€�  # just checking[0mâ�¤â�¤Parse failedâ�¤â�¤Â»
19:42 FROGGS raiph: looks good, and thanks for the pointer
19:42 yoleaux 19:40Z <raiph> FROGGS: Is my answer reasonable? (SO question about P6 equivalent to P5's overload::constant http://stackoverflow.com/questions/269​48334/overloading-constants-in-perl-6)
19:48 sqirrel__ joined #perl6
19:55 masak someone else is welcome to rakudobug-submit the above lack of non-associativity control in Rakudo.
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20:15 dalek doc: 2d79b9c | moritz++ | lib/Type/Metamodel/C3MRO.pod:
20:15 dalek doc: document Metamodel::C3MRO
20:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2d79b9cc42
20:15 dalek doc: b5cc1b5 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Metamodel/Naming.pod:
20:15 dalek doc: Fix MRO signatures
20:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b5cc1b5d46
20:15 dalek doc: 477f3dd | moritz++ | lib/Type/Metamodel/C3MRO.pod:
20:15 dalek doc: MRO example
20:15 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/477f3dd328
20:16 moritz m: say Int.^mro_unhidden
20:16 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«(Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
20:17 moritz m: say Int.^mro
20:17 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«(Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
20:17 moritz why does that produce the same result?
20:17 moritz what's the point of mro_unhidden?
20:17 jnthn "is hidden"
20:17 moritz oh
20:18 * moritz thought it was about excluding Cool, Any etc. by default
20:19 moritz jnthn: so .^mro hidens 'is hidden' classes by default, but .^mro_unhidden shows all?
20:19 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
20:20 jnthn # Introspects the Method Resolution Order without anything that has
20:20 jnthn # been hidden.
20:20 jnthn method mro_unhidden($obj) {
20:20 jnthn so .^mro is all
20:21 jnthn .^mro_unhidden is all the not-hidden ones
20:23 dalek doc: 1f5fe3b | moritz++ | lib/Type/Metamodel/C3MRO.pod:
20:23 dalek doc: [mop] fix mro{,_unhidden} bugs, jnthn++
20:23 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1f5fe3bed6
20:26 dalek snake: 7e99b4b | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/Snake/ (2 files):
20:26 dalek snake: Implemention function parameter default values.
20:26 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnshol​t/snake/commit/7e99b4b37f
20:27 arnsholt Oh. Ai speel reel gud
20:27 kjs_ joined #perl6
20:33 * brrt is excited about fosdem
20:35 timotimo o/
20:36 mrmccrac joined #perl6
20:38 brrt \o timotimo
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20:45 brrt timotimo - i've started working on a binary moar-based perl6. i could use your advice :-)
20:46 vendethiel lizmat: right, I'm back, sorry
20:46 vendethiel ugexe++ #fixing my mistakes
20:47 lizmat vendethiel: and how did you like Interstellar ?
20:47 vendethiel didn't like it very much :(. The images were cool, but I found it boring overall
20:48 vendethiel well, it's most probably not my type of movie. To me, it was like a bad copy of 2001 space odyssey
20:49 brrt ot, but it occurs to me that there is some form of consensus of human unsustainability in interstellar and other things (civilization beyond earth), and ehm, that's pretty sad
20:50 vendethiel people want to dream about what they can't reach. let 'em :)
20:50 brrt that's not my point :-)
20:50 brrt my point is that people seem to have given up on a sustainable life on earth
20:50 brrt or it seems that way at least
20:50 vendethiel no. Movie makers have. I think it's very, very different.
20:51 pochi joined #perl6
20:51 brrt movie makes live in the same cultural background as the rest of us
20:51 lizmat brrt: I think it's more or less established now that with the current number of people on this planet (and the organic growth of that in the next century), it is basically unsustainable
20:52 brrt hmm. i disagree about the number of people. resource usage, yes. 9 billion people, we can manage
20:52 lizmat in the movie, it doesn't matter what caused the disaster that reduced the population: it's about coping with that and the future
20:53 brrt hmm i see
20:55 * lizmat concentrates on writing her slides again
20:55 vendethiel lizmat: I've told you already, but I think learnperl6iny is totally unfit for perl5-knowing people
20:55 vendethiel I'm not happy with how it is right now, at all.
20:55 lizmat vendethiel: well, you could be right,
20:56 lizmat fwiw, I'm following it as a guideline...  it's more about the order of things
20:56 vendethiel I think it's the worst part :(.
20:56 dalek rakudo/longlit: 5f5ddb4 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
20:56 dalek rakudo/longlit: <?{}> parse depended on non-lltm ordering
20:56 dalek rakudo/longlit: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5f5ddb48f2
20:56 lizmat I'll be talking about the examples from a P5 perspective
20:56 lizmat vendethiel: I disagree (mostly)  :-)
20:57 lizmat anyway, I don't think I'll be able to cover more than the first 25-30% in the hour that I have
20:57 vendethiel right.It's a looong tutorial :)
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21:08 moritz what is the longlit branch about?
21:09 jnthn moritz: Longest literal tie-breaking in LTM
21:12 TimToady it causes some misparses where rakudo was relying on ordering rather than the lltm tiebreaker
21:13 TimToady but down to 5 failing tests now
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21:14 japhb So I have a class with many attributes, each of which is of a specific class, but can sanely be coerced from a standard type (Int, Rat, Str, etc.), similar to how you can get a DateTime from an Int interpreted as a posix time.
21:15 japhb I'd like to be able to initialize those attributes during construction of the big class, but using just the standard types (Foo.new(bar => 12) instead of Foo.new(:bar(Bar.new(12))).  What's the best way to express that?
21:21 jluis joined #perl6
21:21 masak 'night, #perl6
21:22 perltricks hey y'all quick question. How do I exec a module sub that is not exported? Module::subname() is not working ...
21:25 TimToady it has to be declared 'our' for that to work
21:25 TimToady otherwise it's private
21:25 TimToady (lexically scoped by default)
21:25 vendethiel night masak
21:26 perltricks TimToady: thanks!
21:26 * jluis_ raspi is making tests but I was in outside when make ended 309 wall clock seconds <G>
21:33 moritz japhb: I'd create a hash with key = attribute and value = coercer function
21:33 perltricks left #perl6
21:33 moritz japhb: and thread that over the named attributes
21:40 japhb moritz: Hmmm, interesting.
21:41 moritz s/attributes/arguments/
21:41 * japhb wonders if this can just be done with parameter coersion and a custom new or BUILD
21:47 jnthn m: class A { has Int $.x }; class B { has A $.a; submethod BUILD(:$a, :_($!a) = A.new(x => $a)) { } }; B.new(a => 42).perl.say
21:47 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«B.new(a => A.new(x => 42))␤»
21:47 jnthn Kinda ugly ;)
21:47 jnthn oh, I wonder...
21:48 jnthn Hm, nah
21:48 FROGGS raiph: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/26948334/ove​rloading-constants-in-perl-6/26962441#26962441
21:49 dalek ecosystem: 50b2821 | (Tobias Leich)++ | META.list:
21:49 dalek ecosystem: added overload::constant to ecosystem
21:49 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/50b28210fb
21:49 FROGGS quite at an early stage, but should be extendable
21:50 FROGGS in short:
21:50 FROGGS sub decimal { $^a.flip }
21:50 FROGGS use overload::constant &decimal;
21:50 FROGGS say .1e-003 # "300-e1."
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21:53 jnthn o.O :)
21:53 FROGGS *g*
21:53 jnthn Short module too :)
21:53 jnthn FROGGS++
21:53 vendethiel FROGGS++
21:53 FROGGS yeah, I really like the pattern of that thing
21:53 FROGGS (which is identical to Tuxic)
21:54 vendethiel FROGGS: couldn't you have the same name for both overload and %handlers key?
21:54 vendethiel so that the code would effectively be
21:55 vendethiel for <integer decimal radix numish> { if atkeyish($/, $_) -> $v { $/.make(...); last; } }
21:55 FROGGS vendethiel: I need the correct fallback anyway, soo....
21:55 vendethiel FROGGS: the for can just return early :p
21:55 vendethiel or LAST
21:55 FROGGS and dec_number is the original name from the grammar/actions, and that's not very sixy
21:55 vendethiel but yeah, yeah, sorry. That's obfuscating while trying to be clever
21:56 FROGGS I might clean it up some day... but I wanted to release it quickly because battery power is at 7% :P
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22:05 FROGGS gnight
22:10 japhb m: sub is-complete($o) { !grep !*.defined, $o.^attributes.map: *.get_value($o) }; class A { has $.a; has $.b = 5; }; say is-complete(A.new); say is-complete(A.new(a => 2));
22:10 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
22:10 japhb \o/
22:11 perltricks hey has the method for finding $*UID changed since s28? $*UID does not exist ...
22:11 perltricks m: say $*UID
22:11 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable $*UID not found␤  in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13756␤  in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16487␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Mx_pFRwduz:1␤␤»
22:11 lizmat m: say +$*USER
22:11 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«1012␤»
22:11 lizmat m: say $*USER
22:11 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«camelia (1012)␤»
22:12 lizmat m: say ~$*USER
22:12 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«camelia␤»
22:12 perltricks lizmat: very nice, thanks!
22:12 lizmat perltricks: iow, $*UID -> $*USER and the coercion determines what you get
22:13 lizmat m: say ~$*GROUP; say +$*GROUP; say $*GROUP
22:13 camelia rakudo-moar 38e77b: OUTPUT«users␤100␤users (100)␤»
22:14 perltricks lizmat: is there a way to retrieve the user's name? (not username)
22:14 lizmat there is none currently specced, afaik
22:15 lizmat this feels highly system dependent, and I guess we wanted to move away from unix centeredness
22:15 perltricks lizmat: ok thanks. I guess for *nix I can look it up in /etc/passwd using +$*USER anyway
22:15 lizmat a module for that would be nice in the ecosystem  :-)
22:16 lizmat aka, all of P5's getgrpwent() functions and friends  :-)
22:16 lizmat we could also use that for "use v5" support  :-)
22:16 perltricks heh, yah I keep wotking backwards. I wanted to write  Module-Starter, but there is no software::license module. So now I'm writing that. But to get the user's name for the license, I need to write another module and so on ... ;)
22:17 lizmat I know the feeling  :-)
22:17 colomon indeed
22:19 jnthn Bah, when I started here it was like "so I want to write a class...well, better implement a MOP..." :P
22:19 perltricks haha
22:20 * jnthn is happy to see our ecosystem gradually growing :)
22:22 perltricks yeah it seems to be picking up. I'm publishing an article this week on compiling Rakudo on Visual Studio 2013
22:22 tinyblak joined #perl6
22:23 perltricks overall it looks like it works fine (I didn't write the article). Which is a pleasant surprise ...
22:24 jnthn Well, having at least one core VM and compiler developer work often on Windows helps... :)
22:26 jnthn MoarVM actually was initially built with MSVC, and then ported to work with GCC, Clang, etc.
22:35 Guest86942 left #perl6
22:46 [Coke] I find myself wanting __END__.
22:47 * [Coke] settles for =begin END , =end END
23:02 timotimo i wrote "o/" but then didn't answer anything
23:02 timotimo turns out i wasn't really there
23:02 * timotimo backlogs now
23:04 brrt left #perl6
23:08 colomon joined #perl6
23:11 timotimo and now i'm off to get some early rest
23:11 timotimo gnite!
23:12 timotimo [Coke]: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S2​6.html#The+%3Dfinish+block
23:13 timotimo i don't actually know if we do that yet :)
23:13 jdv79 i wrote __END__ today as well
23:14 lizmat .oO( old habits die at the __END__ )
23:14 jdv79 in p5 i use it all the time to chop off the end of a test script and run just the head of it
23:14 jdv79 but that's almost the only use i have so meh...
23:18 [Coke] I'm getting an error - if I run my system installed perl6 from a build directory of another perl6, I get Missing or wrong version of dependency...
23:19 [Coke] jdv79: __END__ would be very helpful when converting a five script to six. :)
23:22 lizmat [Coke]: notes that when getting back to the settings loading code
23:22 lizmat *for
23:23 lizmat meanwhile, 20+ slides with code to explain, that should be enough to fill 1 hour and have everybody's head explode
23:23 lizmat so I can get some rest now  :-)
23:23 lizmat good night, #perl6!
23:23 jnthn .oO( The finish block sounds appropriate for NPW this year... :P )
23:23 jnthn 'night, lizmat
23:24 lizmat :-)
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