Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-11-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 [Coke] (assuming you are invoking the sql multiple times)
00:00 dalek perl6-roast-data: a5d71dc | coke++ | / (5 files):
00:00 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:00 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/a5d71dcaf7
00:20 [Coke] jnthn++ finding one of the OSX bugs.
00:22 colomon \o/
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01:37 timotimo o/
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01:46 timotimo ah, indeed
01:46 timotimo i'm glad jnthn spotted that terrible little annoying buglet
01:46 timotimo but alas ... there's more to slay up ahead
01:51 adu hi timotimo
01:53 timotimo hello adu
01:54 adu how goes?
01:54 timotimo i'm all right, but motivation and productivity seem to have reached a local minimum
01:54 adu sounds like thanksgiving
01:55 timotimo i'ven't celebrated that in a long time
01:55 adu I usually work on WORK during the holidays, but this time I'm researching XQuery (and eXistDB)
01:56 timotimo i don't know what XQuery is
01:56 adu its an XML thing
01:57 timotimo i know XPath at least :)
01:58 adu there are 2 standardized XML "programming" lanugages: XSLT and XQuery, they're Turing-equivalent, but implementing XQuery in XSLT would probably take a million LOC, whereas implementing XSLT in XQuery would probably take 1 LOC
01:58 adu XPath is a subset of XQuery
01:58 timotimo ah, OK
01:59 timotimo i have had the fortune(?) to never have to play with XSLD
01:59 timotimo SXLT
01:59 timotimo XSLT*
01:59 adu don't, it's a bad choice for programming, which is what most people NEED it for, but they would never admit it to themselves
02:01 adu s/it/XSLT/
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02:03 timotimo hm.
02:03 timotimo i'd like to build an android app that gains me a tiny but constant stream of money that exponentially grows in popularity
02:04 adu timotimo: PhoneGap.
02:05 timotimo i'm not terribly fond of html actually
02:05 timotimo i haven't had a proper go at it in a long time, though
02:07 adu the money making scheme is just: (1) find client (2) make prototype website (3) use PhoneGap to make Android app (4) show client until happy (5) make money
02:07 adu I thought HTML was the new English
02:08 adu I mean ... my grandma knows HTML, my parents know HTML ...
02:10 adu timotimo: a great place to start is H5BP
02:19 timotimo what is that?
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02:31 hobbs http://html5boilerplate.com/ presumably
02:31 timotimo oh, interesting
02:31 timotimo most stuff i've been whipping up has been with bootstrap
02:32 timotimo i was hoping i could get into html5responsiveboilerstrap.js
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04:45 flussence 9 ;)
04:46 flussence .oO( I remember the weirdest details... )
04:46 hobbs 9 is 4 + 5!
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08:44 * lizmat drops a pin
08:46 raydiak careful, someone might step on that...
08:46 * lizmat picks up the pin
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09:03 bartolin FWIW, today I had clean spectests on Moar, JVM and Parrot (running on FreeBSD 10.0): https://github.com/usev6/perl6-roast-data/blob/master/perl6_pass_rates.csv
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09:12 smls o/
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09:16 moritz \o
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09:18 smls Do you by any chance know if the «.new-from-pairs» method in the Setty/Baggy/Mixy roles is official puplic API, or just a Rakudo implementation detail?
09:18 smls It's not mentioned in the specs.
09:19 smls In Rakudo, the default .Set coercer is implemented in terms of it, and it can also be called directly.
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09:37 pmurias jnthn: what does the usecompileehllconfig op do?
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09:52 lizmat smls: please consider it an implementation detail subject to change without notice
09:52 smls ok
09:52 lizmat so please use .Set, which *is* part of the documented API
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10:05 pmurias is there a way to get the object from a compiled .moarvm file if I know the object id and serialization context handle?
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10:10 itz masak++ # new post
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10:36 lizmat does anybody know what happened to dalek this time ?
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10:50 lizmat Juerd: could it be that feather is in problems again?
10:50 Alina-malina joined #perl6
10:51 Juerd lizmat: Yea. Brand new server, installed last week, had a double disk crash :(
10:51 lizmat :-(
10:51 Juerd Two SSDs that were in RAID 1 vanished from the bus, roughly an hour apart
10:51 * lizmat prefers DOA over this
10:52 Juerd They're dead, not recognised by any of the three systems I tried them in.
10:52 lizmat that's really shit
10:52 anaeem1 joined #perl6
10:53 Juerd Yes, especially because they were used for writeback caching and had some 10 MB of dirty data on them. Not much, but someone is bound to run into missing or otherwise broken data.
10:53 Juerd Probably a year from now.
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11:03 lizmat m: class A { has int $.a; method BUILD(:$!a) {} }; A.new(a=>1)   # do we have a ticket number for this yet ?
11:03 camelia rakudo-moar 28cfa0: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable int␤  in method BUILD at /tmp/OO0_3ySwks:1␤  in method BUILDALL at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:961␤  in method bless at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:944␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:928␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/OO0_3…»
11:04 itz http://24pullrequests.com/
11:05 itz is perl6 or rakudo part of this? I don't seem to be able to search just view all
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11:09 itz oh there a tag cloud
11:13 Mouq oi, it's .new-from-pairs now? No wonder I couldn't do .new-fp anymore. Would've been nice to have had a longer deprecration cycle on that one :/
11:13 Mouq (Wrt Setty/Baggy/Mixy)
11:14 lizmat Mouq: it was not part of the published API afaik, so no deprecation cycle...
11:14 lizmat and BTW, I did that almost a year ago already, if I remember correctly
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11:16 itz I added 4 projects to 24pullrequests
11:16 lizmat hmmm... apparently not...   more like 6 weeks ago
11:17 Mouq Haha, alright
11:18 lizmat how time flies  ...
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11:32 jnthn ...or doesn't, apparently :P
11:32 jnthn Afternoon, #perl6
11:33 lizmat jnthn o/
11:33 jnthn "X is not in the spec" will not, sadly, mean folks won't discover/use it...
11:33 jnthn Especially given the introspection features we have...
11:34 lizmat well, I guess we should add a "official API" trait to the stuff we consider to be official API
11:34 jnthn Or just make private the things we don't :)
11:36 arnsholt That too. But I think at least some API documentation should be part of the spec
11:36 lizmat hmmm... then if we forget to do that for something, it is all of a sudden public
11:36 arnsholt In light of my recent kvetching over the Python spec =)
11:37 lizmat I'd rather have it the other way around
11:37 jnthn lizmat: My point was more that our userbase is going to want us hold us to de facto public, not de jure public. :)
11:37 jnthn *to want to
11:43 Mouq masak++ # I missed the new post!
11:47 * arnsholt digs into the Rakudo code
11:47 arnsholt Let's see if I can't figure out how this setting stuff works
11:49 arnsholt Oh, wait. There's setting stuff in NQP too. That's probably easier to follow
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11:57 jnthn Yes, it will be :)
11:57 jnthn And I think common bits are factored out into some things in HLL::Actions, so you can re-use them a bit.
11:59 arnsholt Oh, awesome!
11:59 lizmat jnthn: nqp::getstdin gives you a PIO with a REPR MVMOSHandle, right ?
12:00 lizmat brb&
12:01 jnthn lizmat: On MoarVM, yes
12:01 lizmat ok, just double checking  :-)
12:01 jnthn lizmat: In general, you should not assume anything about such a handle besides that you can use it with other fh-taking nqp:: ops.
12:02 lizmat yes, I was just refactoring opening STDIN and friends
12:02 arnsholt jnthn: Oh, and a follow-up question from a few days ago: What does :blocktype immediatestatic and declarationstatic mean? They're not documented in docs/qast.markdown
12:02 lizmat and it started complaining about the PIO not being an MVMOSHandle
12:02 lizmat so I wanted to be sure  :-)
12:04 jnthn lizmat: Yes, the way it informs you of your mistake is platform specific, but the mistake will have cross-platform effects ;)
12:04 lizmat yup
12:04 jnthn arnsholt: It means "don't emit any closure-taking code"
12:04 jnthn arnsholt: Generally because you're going to manage it yourself or the thing is never a closure.
12:05 arnsholt Aha. So for example the blocks I emit for a for loop could be declarationstatic, since it'll never exist outside of its lexical scope?
12:06 jnthn No, it's not that simple
12:06 jnthn It cares about seeing the right outer things
12:06 jnthn I presume, anyway.
12:06 arnsholt Yeah. So a *static doesn't have an outer at all?
12:07 jnthn def foo:; omg = 'so implicit'; for syntax in i_cannot_remember_python:; print omg
12:07 jnthn It has an outer, but it is equal to the last outer that ran
12:08 arnsholt The last outer that ran?
12:08 jnthn In that snippet I just wrote, if you had that running recursively for for two threads, then whoever entered foo second would have their `omg` seen.
12:08 arnsholt Oh!
12:09 jnthn And the first would suddenly come to see a different outer
12:09 jnthn Yes, thus hwy it's rarely what you want ;)
12:09 jnthn *why
12:09 arnsholt I can see that now. Thanks =
12:09 arnsholt =)
12:11 mvuets hello there! i have a question here (-: what would be a recommended getaway rakudo backend for a complete newbie?
12:11 colomon moar
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12:16 psch good *, #perl6
12:16 colomon o/
12:19 psch colomon \o
12:19 [Tux] ==> Reinstalling
12:19 [Tux] Could not download module metadata: Failed to connect: connection refused
12:19 [Tux] in method update at lib/Panda/Ecosystem.pm:91
12:21 lizmat [Tux]: feather is down after a double SDD crash
12:21 lizmat Juerd is working on it afaik
12:21 lizmat *SSD
12:21 [Tux] ok
12:24 KCL joined #perl6
12:25 tadzik [Tux]: I picked it up just a few minutes ago
12:26 tadzik [Tux]: should be okay now
12:26 tadzik if it's still up that is, I decided to move my irc session elsewhere
12:26 tadzik botsnack!
12:26 tadzik hm
12:27 tadzik synopsebot: botsnack!
12:27 psch botsnack might be matched with /^botsnack$/
12:27 psch botsnack
12:27 psch oh
12:27 psch or
12:27 psch it's not here
12:27 tadzik $args->{body} eq 'synopsebot: botsnack!'
12:27 tadzik no idea why it's broken
12:28 psch it's here, i should have checked /names :/
12:29 tadzik yeah, it's just broken for some reason
12:29 psch S99:botsnack
12:29 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S99.html#botsnack
12:29 psch hm
12:29 tadzik hah
12:32 psch jnthn: i'm understanding this correctly that i need to override createAdaptorMethod, am i not?  i have a feeling i'm running into some kind of circularity there though
12:33 psch jnthn: as in, i have to defer the visitation of the code for the methods until i know which ones i want to treat as multis to have the dispatch logic inside the CompilationUnit, but i need to have created the CompilationUnit before i can see all methods i want to treat as multis
12:35 psch oh, i could override createAdaptor instead of createAdaptorMethod and run a first-pass through the methods to determine multis by their descriptor
12:43 arnsholt jnthn: Looking at NQP::Compiler, I see that MAIN has to be @ARGS on Parrot/Moar, but *@ARGS on JVM. Is that a bug of some kind?
12:43 jnthn arnsholt: Yeah...
12:44 jnthn psch: I don't quite remember how it works, but that sounds about right...
12:44 jnthn psch: That is, locate the things, then do the building.
12:45 arnsholt jnthn: Is it related to something already in the issue queue, or something else?
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12:47 jnthn arnsholt: Not sure if it's in the issue queue...I can't remember what it is, it was quite a while ago...
12:47 jnthn arnsholt: I think I was like "argh, just hack it and worry about it later" :)
12:49 jnthn It may be a bug in interaction of :main and slurpy stuff
12:52 arnsholt I'll add an issue for it. Doesn't look like it's there
12:53 arnsholt And it's JVM that's buggy, right? =)
13:00 jnthn arnsholt: Well, we should probably follow what Perl 6's MAIN does, which is takes *@ARGS if there are many
13:00 jnthn That'd suggest NQP-JVM is the one in the right here.
13:00 jnthn bbiab
13:01 arnsholt Cool
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13:03 pmurias arnsholt: I think that's a case of "Just #ifdef it on parrot to avoid having to deal with it as much as possible"
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13:05 arnsholt Moar follows Parrot on this one, actually =)
13:10 lizmat alas, no clean spectest for me still... :-(
13:11 timotimo how close to clean is it for you?
13:11 lizmat trying a complete clean build again first
13:12 lizmat 2 random files failing: t/spec/S32-array/end.t and t/spec/S32-array/push.t
13:12 lizmat are ok on their own
13:13 lizmat fwiw, I just pushed the NQP_REVISION bump
13:17 jnthn Well, 2 is a lot better than a dozen.
13:19 jnthn lizmat: What was the failure mode?
13:23 pmurias jnthn: is there a way to dump some info about an object in nqp without guessing what it is?
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13:24 jnthn pmurias: Well, you can $obj.HOW.name($obj) on pretty much anything in MoarVM.
13:29 pmurias it turns out my problems are being caused by some VMArray using a STable from the compiler setting
13:31 pmurias and the --bootstrap flag solves them for reasons I don't fully understand ;)
13:31 jnthn ;)
13:32 jnthn I suspect I'd have to read as much code to re-understand it and explain it, as you would to figure it out... :)
13:32 jnthn I remember thinking while writing it, "I'm SO glad Rakudo is not a bootstrapping compiler, only NQP is" :)
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13:46 Mouq lizmat: What is IO::Dup short for?
13:48 jnthn How about you?
13:48 jnthn oops
13:48 jnthn ww
13:48 jnthn Mouq: I'd guess duplicate or something...
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13:49 lizmat well, I guess it would be an objectification of man dup 5
13:50 lizmat and another consumer of the PIO role
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14:18 smls "MixHash [... ] Keys with fractional weights are deleted if they go to 0.", according to spec
14:18 smls What does "go to 0" mean here?
14:20 moritz is assigned a 0 value
14:21 smls ok
14:22 lizmat m: my $m = (a => pi).MixHash; say $m.perl; $m<a>=0; say $m.perl
14:22 camelia rakudo-moar f3390f: OUTPUT«("a"=>3.14159265358979).MixHash␤().MixHash␤»
14:22 smls right, just like Set/Bag
14:23 smls I just wondered for a moment there, if "goes to 0" refers to something complicated with infinite fractions or limits... :)
14:24 moritz Stage mast       : Unknown constant 'SIG_QUIT'
14:24 lizmat whenever the condition $value == 0 is true, it will be deleted
14:24 lizmat which backend ?
14:24 moritz moar
14:24 lizmat which OS?
14:24 moritz I ran Configure.pl, it didn't complain about NQP being too old
14:25 lizmat I guess that's the reason I always nuke my install dir  :-)
14:25 moritz huh
14:25 moritz $ cat tools/build/NQP_REVISION
14:25 moritz 2014.11-27-g3254b59
14:25 moritz $ ./install/bin/nqp-m --version
14:25 moritz This is nqp version 2014.10-33-g86f1841 built on MoarVM version 2014.11
14:25 moritz wth doesn't it complain about it being too old?
14:26 lizmat if it is because I did something wrong, please let me know
14:26 moritz sounds like a Configure.pl bug
14:29 smls In Rakudo: role Mixy does Baggy, and role Baggy does QuantHash
14:29 smls In S32/Containers: «role QuantHash[::T, $default = Any] does Mixy does Associative {...}»
14:30 lizmat smls: the spec says use QuantHash
14:30 smls use for what?
14:31 lizmat however, currently private attributes defined in a role that is consumed in another role, are not visible in the class that consumes that role
14:31 lizmat that's why we have the rather strange order of Sets/Bags/Mixes atm
14:31 smls I was pointing out the inconsistency between Rakudo and spec, of which role does which
14:31 lizmat yes, it is not up to spec wrt to roles it should use
14:31 smls oh, so it's a temporary thing?
14:32 lizmat it *should* be up to spec wrt to functionality
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14:32 smls but on p6doc we show type graphs as well...
14:33 smls (currently, based on Rakudo.)
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14:35 moritz dalek, lazy bastard, where are you?
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14:43 dalek doc: 77dda07 | Mouq++ | lib/Language/operators.pod:
14:43 dalek doc: Missed in last commit: add dumb example for .Foo::bar
14:43 dalek doc:
14:43 dalek doc: Something more in-depth would be better, but this at least shows the
14:43 dalek doc: syntax of the op.
14:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/77dda0722c
14:46 smls Mouq: 'does Bar' should be 'is Bar' in that commit.
14:47 smls or alternatively, 'class Bar' ---> 'role Bar'
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15:18 raiph hi brrt, please see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27178599/how-to-compile-perl6-file-to-exe
15:18 yoleaux 23 Nov 2014 11:14Z <nine> raiph: thanks. Of course there'll always be edge cases that need some workarounds. But from my practice using  Perl 5's Inline::Python I can say, that there are always workarounds and most code does just fine
15:22 arnsholt "While looking for 'SNAKE.setting.moarvm': no such file or directory" that's a step in the right direction at least =D
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15:28 timotimo brrt: i'd be interested in a status update on the static moar binary generator thingie
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15:50 arnsholt jnthn: ping?
15:54 smls m: .say for SetHash(5).pick.perl, SetHash().pick.perl, SetHash(5).grab.perl, SetHash().grab.perl
15:54 camelia rakudo-moar c11b2a: OUTPUT«5␤Nil␤(5,).list␤().list␤»
15:54 smls lizmat: ^ What's with grab (but not pick) list-ifying its return value?
15:58 timotimo TimToady: should i invest a bit of time into building a "NFA to graphviz" tool?
16:01 psch m: .say for SetHash(1..5).pick(2).perl, SetHash(1..5).grab(2).perl
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar c11b2a: OUTPUT«(2, 5).list␤(3, 1).list␤»
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16:03 masak aloha, #perl6
16:03 psch hi masak \o
16:04 masak feather did another reboot?
16:05 psch masak: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-11-29#i_9735384
16:08 jnthn arnsholt: I'm here now
16:09 jnthn raiph: Short answer is "there's not a way to do that yet", and --target=mast is just a debugging aid, so it's really not a suitable thing to use.
16:09 arnsholt jnthn: I think the setting stuff is mostly there, but when it runs the fixup to set the outer on the compiled thing, it looks like getcurhllsym("ModuleLoader") returns null
16:10 arnsholt OTOH, looks like it's working in the World code
16:10 arnsholt I guess it's not running in the right HLL, but I'm not entirely sure what's causing it
16:10 arnsholt That's set by the CompUnit's :hll, right?
16:11 jnthn Yes
16:11 jnthn Also, do you have a module loader?
16:11 jnthn NQP iirc emits code to loadbytecode one.
16:11 timotimo hm. would it make sense to somehow visualize the contents of the serialized blob as a graph or html page of some kind?
16:11 jnthn I suspect you can crib its one initially.
16:11 arnsholt Aha. That's probably it
16:12 jnthn You can do a gethllsym('nqp', 'ModuleLoader') to grab it even if you're in the other hll
16:12 arnsholt I do have a ModuleLoader class, but I guess my World might actually be getting NQP's ModuleLoader
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16:30 dalek snake: 8d2700e | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | / (7 files):
16:30 dalek snake: Initial setting implementation.
16:30 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnsholt/snake/commit/8d2700e1f2
16:30 arnsholt jnthn++ # Halp
16:32 masak setting? you mean __builtin__, right?
16:33 arnsholt Yeah
16:33 arnsholt Not actually accessible through that name yet though
16:34 arnsholt Although now that you mention it, that's probably the correct way to do it once modules are implemented
16:34 arnsholt Just implicitly load and import all the stuff from the builtins module
16:36 masak I think so.
16:38 arnsholt Although wrapping stuff in the lexical scope of __builtins__ might avoid a bit of computation on startup. Hard to tell a priori
16:38 arnsholt Anyways, that requires a fair chunk of infrastructure I don't have yet
16:57 dalek rakudo/newio: b78a931 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
16:57 dalek rakudo/newio: Move STDIN/OUT/ERR init to a more logical place
16:57 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b78a9314ac
16:57 dalek rakudo/newio: 1db1c24 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
16:57 dalek rakudo/newio: $*ARGFILES initialization in a more logical place
16:57 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1db1c24bbc
16:58 dalek rakudo/newio: c11b2a7 | moritz++ | Configure.pl:
16:58 dalek rakudo/newio: Configure.pl: Complain if nqp-m is too old
16:58 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c11b2a7f43
16:58 dalek rakudo/newio: 0b64cc4 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | Configure.pl:
16:58 dalek rakudo/newio: Merge branch 'nom' into newio
16:58 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0b64cc4299
17:21 raydiak o/
17:23 mr-foobar joined #perl6
17:26 ugexe did feather change dns settings again? im getting Connection Refused on one specific machine now for nickl@localhost:~/perl6/panda$ perl6 -e 'IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<feather.perl6.nl>, :port(3000))'
17:27 dalek rakudo/newio: 3be8fcd | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/PIO.pm:
17:27 dalek rakudo/newio: Streamline IO::ArgFiles.get
17:27 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3be8fcd553
17:27 dalek rakudo/newio: 17e652f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Str.pm:
17:27 dalek rakudo/newio: Str.path should make an IOU, not an IO::Path
17:27 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/17e652f1a8
17:28 moritz ugexe: might be an ipv6 problem
17:29 ugexe moritz: any hints on how i can tell? my sysadmin skills are lacking
17:30 tony-o ugexe: there is no ipv6 on that box, i have it disabled
17:30 tony-o oh that's on your machine
17:30 ugexe the problem isnt on that box
17:31 moritz ugexe: as root, try   echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv6/conf/all/disable_ipv6
17:31 moritz ugexe: that will disable IPv6
17:32 moritz ugexe: if it works afterwards, you know it's really the rakudo ipv6 bug
17:32 tony-o any help with Unhandled exception: When invoking is_bindable, Provided outer frame 0x7fb7ae4c0be0 (MVMStaticFrame bind_one_param) does not match expected static frame type 0x7fb7ae4c09a0 (MVMStaticFrame ) ?
17:33 ugexe connection till refused
17:33 ugexe still
17:33 moritz huh
17:33 moritz ugexe: any firewall in the way?
17:34 ugexe i have iptables setup. but ive been able to connect fine for the last couple days
17:34 ugexe ive been working on panda and wonder if i somehow tripped some fail2ban type deal?
17:34 moritz I get the same error from panda
17:34 moritz but nmap shows the port as open
17:35 ugexe m: IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<feather.perl6.nl>, :port(3000));
17:35 camelia rakudo-moar c11b2a: OUTPUT«Failed to connect: connection refused␤  in method initialize at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22518␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22502␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/0ERLnFfkDT:1␤␤»
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17:36 moritz ok, now nmap shows the port as closed
17:36 ugexe yeah now its not working on other machines (when it was ~15 minutes ago)
17:36 * raydiak gets same from his web browser even
17:36 moritz seems that server process died
17:38 tony-o full dump for MVMStaticFrame error is here: https://gist.github.com/tony-o/6de78fe91379a2501415
17:40 dalek roast: 4d13580 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S10-packages/basic.t:
17:40 dalek roast: s/.path.directory/.IO.dirname/
17:40 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4d135805f4
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17:45 TimToady timotimo: NFA graph might be interesting, though dunno how useful, unless to motivate someone to implement DFA
17:46 TimToady speaking of implementing DFA, why does the NFA never remove epsilons from the NFA, except over and over again in the results
17:46 TimToady seems like it'd be more efficient to guarantee there are no epsilons, and then we wouldn't have to check for them at NFA run time
17:47 TimToady and also, coincidentally, make the NFA readier for DFAish caching
17:48 gfldex joined #perl6
17:48 TimToady I guess it's just a DTSTTCPW.
17:49 mvuets i cannot get panda working: feather.perl6.nl:3000 refuses connections
17:49 mvuets is it down for someone else?
17:50 ugexe m: IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<feather.perl6.nl>, :port(3000));
17:50 camelia rakudo-moar c11b2a: OUTPUT«Failed to connect: connection refused␤  in method initialize at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22518␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22502␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/2Ba4oymwvJ:1␤␤»
17:50 raydiak mvuets: yes, it's down for the moment
17:52 FROGGS_ joined #perl6
17:53 mvuets is there a mirror by chance?
17:54 raydiak mvuets: not that I know of, but you could d/l a module from github via links on http://modules.perl6.org/, then install locally w/"panda install ." in the module's dir, I believe
17:56 mvuets ah, good idea!
17:57 ugexe you might have to use panda-install, as panda install now does Panda::Reporter.new( :$bone ).submit; which may not work without internet
17:57 psch it submits without the env var?
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17:59 psch ah, it always calls &Reporter::submit but &submit has if %ENV<PANDA_SUBMIT_TESTREPORTS> { #`[[ submitting happens here ]] }
17:59 ugexe oh, so yeah if its not set it should be fine
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18:00 psch i think cpandatesters lives on a different host as well, but i'm not sure about that
18:02 mvuets do you happen to know what generates that projects.json?
18:03 ugexe if you used panda recently you should have a current projects file
18:03 perltricks joined #perl6
18:04 mvuets sadly not, i just got it
18:04 colomon mvuets: what's your e-mail?  (send message privately if you want)
18:05 colomon or heck, wait a moment
18:06 perltricks hey y'all. This 1 liner's Syntax is OK: perl6 -ce 'state %l;.say if ++%l{$_}==2'
18:06 perltricks but this one hangs: perl6 -MTest -e 'plan 1;is q:x{perl6 -ce q/state %l;.say if ++%l{$_}==2/ example.txt}, "Syntax OK\n";'
18:06 perltricks any idea why?
18:08 perltricks simpler version: perl6 -MTest -e 'plan 1;is q:x{perl6 -ce "state %l;.say if ++%l{$_}==2"}, "Syntax OK\n";'
18:09 colomon mvuets: https://gist.github.com/colomon/a16b64f27f10010afed3
18:09 dalek ecosystem: 3ea5b89 | (David Warring)++ | META.list:
18:09 dalek ecosystem: Added CSS::Writer
18:09 dalek ecosystem:
18:09 dalek ecosystem: Reserializes AST data, as produced by CSS::Grammar etc
18:09 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/3ea5b8908a
18:09 colomon mvuets: that's from midnight EST or so
18:10 dalek rakudo/newio: 873e88a | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO/Local.pm:
18:10 dalek rakudo/newio: Add obsolete .directory for API consistency
18:10 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/873e88a118
18:10 dalek rakudo/newio: fd1ee99 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IOU.pm:
18:10 dalek rakudo/newio: Allow "foo".IO.open/mkdir if "foo" doesn't exist
18:10 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fd1ee997f0
18:10 dalek rakudo/newio: c4d1f1f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/io_operators.pm:
18:10 dalek rakudo/newio: Make mkdir() work again
18:10 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c4d1f1ffc8
18:10 xiaozeng joined #perl6
18:11 mvuets colomon: sweet, thanks!
18:12 xiaozeng what's going on here
18:14 lizmat xiaozeng: welcome, we're working on perl 6 here
18:14 xiaozeng What can I do to help
18:15 woolfy left #perl6
18:15 Mso150_p joined #perl6
18:17 xiaozeng May i join you, or where can i get to know more?
18:19 lizmat xiaozeng: you probably should start with http://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ or so
18:19 lizmat that should be a good introduction into perl 6
18:20 mvuets xiaozeng: another nice page you may want to check out: http://perl6.org/getting-started/
18:21 dalek rakudo/newio: 21731f5 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/PIO.pm:
18:21 dalek rakudo/newio: Apparent "bin" means don't set encoding
18:21 dalek rakudo/newio:
18:21 dalek rakudo/newio: Rather than "binary".  Wonder if it's possible of needed to be able to change
18:21 dalek rakudo/newio: the encoding of a PIO during its lifetime.  If it should be possible, I don't
18:21 dalek rakudo/newio: think we can revert to "binary" at the moment.
18:21 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/21731f5955
18:22 xiaozeng thanks : )
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18:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 62c092f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO/Notification.pm:
18:32 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix deprecated Supply.more (to .emit)
18:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/62c092fc73
18:35 dalek roast: ab7cddd | (Elizabeth Cholet)++ | S17-supply/watch_path.t:
18:35 dalek roast: Fixed deprecated "uniq" to "unique".
18:35 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ab7cdddcb3
18:35 dalek roast: 8167450 | lizmat++ | S17-supply/watch_path.t:
18:35 dalek roast: Merge pull request #50 from zrusilla/master
18:35 dalek roast:
18:35 dalek roast: Fixed deprecated "uniq" to "unique".
18:35 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8167450130
18:36 lizmat joined #perl6
18:40 dalek roast: 98d86f1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-io/io-path-unix.t:
18:40 dalek roast: Fix obsolete .directory -> .dirname
18:40 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/98d86f1185
18:46 ilbot3 joined #perl6
18:46 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
18:47 mvuets cosimo: ping
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19:10 dalek snake: 5bc1c25 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | t/ (2 files):
19:10 dalek snake: Remove most nqp::op use from test files.
19:10 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnsholt/snake/commit/5bc1c251af
19:11 prime joined #perl6
19:31 mvuets is META.info obsolete in favor of META6.json?
19:35 guru joined #perl6
19:36 dalek perl6.org: 65b9998 | raydiak++ | source/style.css:
19:36 dalek perl6.org: Fix broken nav styling
19:36 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/65b9998e60
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19:58 raydiak is anyone with the proper access trying to get feather.perl6.nl:3000 back up?
19:59 FROGGS_ raydiak: only tadzik can do that
19:59 raydiak ah
20:07 masak what depends on feather.perl6.nl:3000 being available?
20:07 moritz panda install
20:08 moritz ok, I've restarted the app
20:08 moritz (which involves logging in as tadzik, which is why I don't like doing it)
20:08 colomon … installing panda, or installing modules using panda?
20:09 moritz colomon: the latter
20:09 colomon huh.  I thought module installation just used your local projects.json and github or wherever.
20:09 masak is it wise to tie something as common as panda install to something as seemingly fragile as feather.perl6.nl:3000 ?
20:10 moritz masak: nope; the plan is to make it a "proper" service
20:10 moritz masak: at least that's my plan as soon as I have the new server
20:11 moritz (and run it on port 80, so that fewer firewalls complain)
20:11 FROGGS_ +1
20:11 * colomon wonders if it might be possible to have a backup on github or something.
20:11 moritz but I won't invest more time on that on the old feather
20:14 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
20:17 hoelzro o/ mvuets
20:17 hoelzro good to see a familiar face here =)
20:19 dalek nqp: 0cf0677 | TimToady++ | src/QRegex/ (2 files):
20:19 dalek nqp: enforce invariant of correct # of NFA fates
20:19 dalek nqp:
20:19 dalek nqp: The mergesubstates method now always guarantees that states[0] has a
20:19 dalek nqp: size reflecting the number of fates used by this NFA.  Previously it
20:20 dalek nqp: relied on its caller to set the fates list, and since /@array/ didn't
20:20 dalek nqp: do that (oops), the fate count was off, resulting in reallocations
20:20 dalek nqp: in the NFA engine.  Since alternatives just use the fate numbers
20:20 dalek nqp: directly, they no longer have to set the fates.  Protoregexes, on
20:20 dalek nqp: the other hand, still override the fate number with rxname, but now
20:20 dalek nqp: do so by setting it after mergesubstates sets it to the number.
20:20 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0cf0677507
20:20 masak TimToady++
20:21 FROGGS_ that sounds nice indeed
20:21 anaeem1__ joined #perl6
20:21 TimToady you just like it because I used the word "invariant" :P
20:22 TimToady and while it sounds great to avoid reallocations, only the /@array/ construct was actually doing it :)
20:23 FROGGS_ I like it because it fixes an oops :o)
20:26 * masak .oO( de-oopsing )
20:28 masak speaking of nothing: when a class A keeps calling into class B in a way that makes you feel that logic isn't properly encapsulated in B but has leaked into A, what design principle is broken, or does that kind of code smell have a name?
20:28 * moritz liked it because it was a detailed commit message (and saves allocations)
20:30 dalek perl6.org: cef6e11 | raydiak++ | source/ (2 files):
20:30 dalek perl6.org: Fix broken layout in /documentation
20:30 dalek perl6.org:
20:30 dalek perl6.org: Also rearrange box colors to compensate for layout changes
20:30 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/cef6e113a6
20:37 arnsholt Argh! Contextual, y u no contextualize!
20:39 Mso150_p_l joined #perl6
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20:55 dalek doc: 300883d | (Rob Hoelz)++ | lib/Type/List.pod:
20:55 dalek doc: Document grep-index
20:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/300883de5e
20:55 dalek doc: 7fe985f | (Rob Hoelz)++ | lib/Type/List.pod:
20:55 dalek doc: Document first-index
20:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7fe985fbb4
20:55 dalek doc: b28737d | (Rob Hoelz)++ | lib/Type/List.pod:
20:55 dalek doc: Document last-index
20:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b28737db1e
20:58 timotimo o/
20:58 dalek snake: 9680eaf | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/Snake/Grammar.nqp:
20:58 dalek snake: Allow unlimited whitespace inside enclosures.
20:58 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnsholt/snake/commit/9680eaf467
20:58 arnsholt \o
21:03 Mso150_p_l joined #perl6
21:20 moritz hoelzro++ # docs
21:22 adu joined #perl6
21:39 timotimo panda refuses to work if it can't connect to the metadata server? >_<
21:39 timotimo like, it won't even install packages locally?
21:40 masak :/
21:40 timotimo in that case, i'll ufo it up :)
21:41 raiph joined #perl6
21:41 timotimo ufo has some deprecations in it
21:41 masak haven't used ufo myself in a while.
21:42 masak compilation is so fast now.
21:44 ugexe you can still hit the url directly
21:44 ugexe http://feather.perl6.nl:3000/projects.json
21:44 timotimo i can?
21:49 arnsholt masak: Yeah, rebuilding NQP after a year off was a bit of a revelation...
21:52 raydiak timotimo: no, you couldn't :) but moritz++ fixed it for us, all should work normally again
21:52 timotimo oh
21:53 timotimo it doesn't work for me
21:53 ugexe yeah, i can access it through a browser on my desktop but not on another machine through panda
21:53 raydiak hm...works here, now, even via panda
21:54 ugexe m: IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<feather.perl6.nl>, :port(3000));
21:54 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: OUTPUT«Failed to connect: connection refused␤  in method initialize at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22518␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22502␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/D4WneolcE0:1␤␤»
21:55 raydiak panda also working from my server
21:56 timotimo ah, must be because the browser falls back to ipv4 if it gets a connection refused from the port over v6
21:56 raydiak oh right, the ipv6 thing
22:00 ugexe m: IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<193.200.132.131>, :port(3000));
22:00 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: OUTPUT«Failed to connect: host is unreachable␤  in method initialize at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22518␤  in method new at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22502␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ksDXWgsvqd:1␤␤»
22:00 ugexe wrong ip
22:00 ugexe m: IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<193.200.132.135>, :port(3000));
22:00 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: ( no output )
22:01 mvuets hoelzro: o hai! (-:
22:02 lizmat joined #perl6
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22:03 timotimo i can't build GTK::Simple any more: No STable at index 47
22:07 timotimo damn, has been broken in the smoke test reports for a while now
22:08 timotimo and on cpandatesters, too :(
22:08 masak 'night, #perl6
22:08 timotimo gnite masak
22:09 lizmat gnight masak
22:10 hoelzro mvuets: playing with Perl 6?
22:10 timotimo i'm still not satisfied with the performance of my shooter game on top of sdl2 :(
22:21 raydiak timotimo: but this one runs good on my computers :)
22:27 [Coke] joined #perl6
22:36 raydiak timotimo: of course by "this one" I mean example.pl in SDL2::Raw, which I assume is not the current state of your actual sdl shooter...???...
22:40 raydiak wow...windows on our media box failed updates and miraculously still boots...
22:43 mvuets hoelzro: yes - for the first time since 2009 (-:
22:45 mvuets speaking of which - i want to be helpful. so i tried to install Task::Star and it failed because LWP::Simple tests would not pass
22:46 mvuets the test in question relies on a server script which is gone
22:47 mvuets hence a call returns Nil, and a next call on the returned object, presumably, dies
22:48 [Coke] $ panda install LWP::Simple
22:48 [Coke] Segmentation fault: 11
22:48 [Coke] ... huh
22:48 * hobbs also wants to be doing something useful for/with perl6
22:48 mvuets not sure, maybe it isn't Nil: No such method 'match' for invocant of type 'Any'
22:49 mvuets so i wanted to fix the test and i wasn't sure how. would very appreciate any input so i could fix it
22:49 [Coke] mvuets: can you open an issue here: https://github.com/cosimo/perl6-lwp-simple/issues ?
22:49 arnsholt With Perl 6 is intrinsically useful for Perl 6, at this stage, IMO
22:49 arnsholt Also, you may very well run into a bug or something that lets you contribute directly as well
22:49 bartolin m: 1, 2 ... 4, 6 ... 8, 10   ## there seems to be something wrong with chained sequence operators
22:49 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: ( no output )
22:49 [Coke] if you want to supply a fix, I'd fork that repo and issue a pull request when done.
22:50 bartolin m: say 1, 2 ... 4, 6 ... 8, 10   ## there seems to be something wrong with chained sequence operators
22:50 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 6 8␤»
22:50 hobbs oh hi arnsholt :)
22:50 mvuets [Coke]: that's what i aim for, actually
22:50 [Coke] m: say 1, (2...4), (6...8), 10
22:50 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: OUTPUT«12 3 46 7 810␤»
22:50 mvuets arnsholt: that's kinda my hope as well (-:
22:50 [Coke] bartolin: I suspect your 8,10 is the RHS of that last seq.
22:51 [Coke] which test is the failing one?
22:51 [Coke] (mv)
22:51 mvuets t/custom-headers-and-content.t
22:51 bartolin [Coke]: mom
22:52 [Coke] mvuets: ok. Step one, ping FROGGS_ to see if he can fix the server.
22:52 bartolin [Coke]: actually it's a skipped test in S03-sequence/misc.t
22:52 [Coke] step 2, we shouldn't rely on something outside the ecosystem there.
22:53 bartolin [Coke]: but there also is this example in S03:
22:53 FROGGS_ [Coke]: what's up?
22:53 bartolin m: say 1, *+1 ... { $_ == 9 }, 10, *+10  ... { $_ ==  90 }, 100, *+100 ... { $_ == 900 }
22:53 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Nil in numeric context  in block <unit> at /tmp/Beh76NAMxB:1␤␤1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False F…»
22:53 [Coke] FROGGS_: see https://github.com/cosimo/perl6-lwp-simple/blob/master/t/custom-headers-and-content.t
22:53 FROGGS_ ups
22:53 [Coke] it points at a froggs.de URL that is dying.
22:54 telex joined #perl6
22:54 raydiak but what about https://github.com/cosimo/perl6-lwp-simple/blob/master/t/custom-headers-and-content.t#L11 >
22:54 raydiak ?
22:55 bartolin m: say 1, 2 ... * > 3, 6
22:55 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 6␤»
22:55 bartolin m: say 1, 2 ... * > 3, 6 ... 10
22:55 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/89Sg_IwM_r:1␤␤»
22:55 bartolin m: say 1, 2 ... { $_ > 3 }, 6
22:55 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 6␤»
22:55 bartolin m: say 1, 2 ... { $_ > 3 }, 6 ... 10
22:55 camelia rakudo-moar 62c092: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Nil in numeric context  in block <unit> at /tmp/41i58xbXxW:1␤␤1 2 3 False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False False…»
22:56 bartolin I think, I should open a ticket for that ..
22:56 FROGGS_ [Coke]: I fixed http://froggs.de/cgi-bin/test/test.cgi
22:58 mvuets FROGGS_++
22:58 [Coke] the skip was there in case the site didn't respond; if it's responding now, it shouldn't skip.
22:58 mvuets you broke my use case q-:
22:59 FROGGS_ mvuets: my server had a hardware failure and it got moved... apparently not without a hickup :o)
23:01 raydiak obviously I don't understand the details of testing semantics, but wasn't the skip there so if the server had a hiccup, things *wouldn't* break?
23:01 FROGGS_ raydiak: I bet the code just dies before reaching that point
23:02 mvuets where does Test.pm come from?
23:02 mvuets rakudo?
23:03 raydiak FROGGS_: no the weirdest thing is that it's complaining about the call to match on L13 *after* that test should have skipped at L11
23:04 FROGGS_ :/
23:04 FROGGS_ mvuets: aye
23:06 raydiak FROGGS_: but then it goes on to say 1 passed (0 okay, 1 skipped)...and then at the end it complains 'no plan in tap output blah blah'
23:06 raydiak so color me confused :)
23:06 FROGGS_ hehe
23:06 FROGGS_ yeah
23:11 colomon joined #perl6
23:13 hobbs sounds like: it printed a skip, then it died, and it was a plan-at-the-end TAP document so when the plan didn't come out the whole thing was malformed
23:14 hobbs skipping 1/1 is okay, skipping 1/? is a fail :)
23:15 tony-o timotimo: btyler: got timeout working on http-async, i know timotimo wants 'keep-alive' to work better, btyler anything you're angling for?
23:15 tony-o by work better i mean actually be handled properly
23:17 * bartolin submitted RT #123329 wrt chained sequence operators
23:17 * synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=123329
23:18 mvuets hobbs: sounds right! that ok() would be indeed skipped if evaluation of one of its arguments didn't die
23:19 * mvuets just realized Test.pm is a part of language specification - neat!
23:19 mvuets S24 reads: The skip() function is called instead of the some tests (usually because they would die), and emits $count SKIP markers in the TAP output.
23:25 mvuets btw that test still fails, but due to some other reason now.
23:26 mvuets http://paste.scsys.co.uk/448715 does it look very lame?
23:29 raydiak mvuets: looks great, and now I understand why I was confused too :)
23:31 dalek rakudo/newio: e84fb7e | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO.pm:
23:31 dalek rakudo/newio: Fix CHANGE-DIR (don't make an IO::Path)
23:31 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e84fb7e37b
23:31 dalek rakudo/newio: 7ed1673 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IOU.pm:
23:31 dalek rakudo/newio: Some whitespace fixes
23:31 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7ed16731ee
23:31 dalek rakudo/newio: 4697967 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/io_operators.pm:
23:31 dalek rakudo/newio: Make use of primitives without IO::Path
23:31 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/46979672d1
23:33 lizmat and on that thought, I'm calling it a night
23:34 Juerd -
23:34 Juerd s/-//
23:35 raydiak FROGGS_: that test.cgi just seems to print out a few env vars from the server...is supposed to be a json-rpc service providing an 'echo' method
23:36 FROGGS_ hmmm
23:40 FROGGS_ raydiak: can you test it now?
23:41 mvuets i have a trivial patch (single char typo) for perl6/specs. how do i send it? what's the preferred way?
23:41 raydiak FROGGS_: works like a charm :)
23:41 FROGGS_ raydiak: \o/
23:41 mvuets FROGGS_: works here too!
23:41 FROGGS_ mvuets: a pull request
23:41 mvuets ok
23:53 rmgk_ joined #perl6
23:57 raydiak mvuets++: feel free to submit a PR for your LWP::Simple patch as well
23:59 mvuets raydiak: will do with pleasure after some rest - i am used to make stupid commits when sleepy

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