Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2014-11-30

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:04 raydiak mvuets: thanks for jumping in and fixing things...glad to have you here :)
00:12 tony-o invalid status 297373760 in GC orchestrate
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00:43 jnthn masak: In answer to "when a class A keeps calling into class B..." - feature envy.
00:51 * mvuets sleep &
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01:38 timotimo tony-o: can you build your moarvm with ASAN? and before that, maybe turn on MVM_DISABLE_JIT (set it to some non-empty value) or MVM_DISABLE_SPESH
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02:08 * [Coke] notes we have a bunch of flappy tests commented out of t/spectest.data
02:09 [Coke] test -files-, I mean.
02:09 jdv79 flabby or flappy?
02:09 [Coke] we should probably re-enable those immediately after the release.
02:10 [Coke] flappy == pass/fail "randomly"
02:12 dalek rakudo/nom: 1385296 | coke++ | tools/update (2 files):
02:12 dalek rakudo/nom: prefer -'s
02:12 dalek rakudo/nom:
02:12 dalek rakudo/nom: (most of the other tools use -, not _)
02:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/13852961c2
02:12 [Coke] jnthn++, moar looks much better today.
02:35 dalek perl6-roast-data: d275310 | coke++ | / (4 files):
02:35 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
02:35 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/d27531053d
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03:37 tadzik moritz: we should synchronize one day and set up this service properly
04:04 ugexe language: perl
04:04 ugexe perl:
04:04 ugexe - '5.20'
04:04 ugexe env:
04:04 ugexe - BACKEND=moar PANDA_SUBMIT_TESTREPORTS=yes
04:05 ugexe - BACKEND=jvm PANDA_SUBMIT_TESTREPORTS=yes
04:05 ugexe - BACKEND=parrot
04:05 ugexe matrix:
04:05 ugexe allow_failures:
04:05 ugexe - env: BACKEND=jvm
04:05 ugexe - env: BACKEND=parrot
04:05 ugexe fast_finish: true
04:05 ugexe before_install: - git config --global user.name "TravisCI" - git config --global user.email $HOSTNAME":not-for-mail@travis-ci.org" - git clone git://github.com/travis-perl/helpers ~/travis-perl-helpers - source ~/travis-perl-helpers/init # helpers for parallel testing/testing dirs - git clone https://github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew ~/.rakudobrew
04:05 ugexe oops, sorry
04:23 TimToady ugexe: if you're using irssi you can set paste_verify_line_count = 1 and it'll ask if you really mean it
04:31 ugexe another notch on the ol irssi config
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06:34 moritz tadzik: first step: put the code into a git repo, give me the URL
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08:55 dalek nqp: 817019e | TimToady++ | src/QRegex/NFA.nqp:
08:55 dalek nqp: delete SUBRULE edges after use
08:55 dalek nqp:
08:55 dalek nqp: Added a better NFA dumper.  Using this, I discovered that the NFA
08:55 dalek nqp: engine was spending 6-7% of its time just ignoring subrule edges.
08:55 dalek nqp: These edges are not used after subrules are merged, so they can be
08:55 dalek nqp: spliced out before the NFA engine ever sees them.
08:55 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/817019ec84
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08:59 dalek nqp: b1cecf6 | TimToady++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
08:59 dalek nqp: bump moar
08:59 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b1cecf647f
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: 25796d2 | TimToady++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: bump nqp
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/25796d2b71
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09:12 JimmyZ_ TimToady: the above commit increases Stage parse      :  ~62s -> 63.711s here
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09:17 TimToady do you have anything running in the background?  ran faster here, once I stopped firefox...
09:18 JimmyZ_ TimToady: Nope, I exited all things
09:19 JimmyZ_ and ran it twice to confirm it
09:19 TimToady interesting...
09:20 TimToady maybe splice is slow on your machine for some reason...
09:21 JimmyZ_ Win32 on X86 without jit
09:21 JimmyZ_ let me try the old one again
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09:36 TimToady zzz &
09:36 lizmat gnight TimToady
09:36 JimmyZ_ joined #perl6
09:36 lizmat fwiw, I'm not seeing much difference in parse times
09:37 JimmyZ_ TimToady: sorry, it's not the above commit, but I can't ~62s now
09:37 JimmyZ_ *can't get back
09:39 TimToady well, at best it would be about a 1% improvement, since the nfa is only about 10% of the parse time
09:40 TimToady but there's still a bunch of improvements that can be made, lots of useless epsilons and such that can be eliminated
09:40 TimToady zzz really &
09:55 JimmyZ_ good night
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: 1385296 | coke++ | tools/update (2 files):
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: prefer -'s
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio:
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: (most of the other tools use -, not _)
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/13852961c2
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: 25796d2 | TimToady++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: bump nqp
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/25796d2b71
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: dd6fc0a | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | tools/ (3 files):
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: Merge branch 'nom' into newio
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dd6fc0adb3
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: 0f4ec52 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/PIO.pm:
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: PIO.say should return True, not 1
09:56 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0f4ec52d99
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10:47 masak jnthn: re "feature envy" -- I suspected so. but, so the "feature" here is the control flow itself?
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10:53 smls o/
10:53 smls Happy Advent Sunday, #perl6!
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11:00 moritz \o
11:00 moritz so far we have only one sign-up for the advent calendar
11:00 moritz that's too few
11:00 moritz I can probably write a "State of Perl 6" for tomorrow
11:01 moritz but we need more, otherwise it won't work
11:01 dalek mu: 069bb68 | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule:
11:01 dalek mu: [perl6advent] claim day 1
11:01 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/069bb68e72
11:02 mvuets \o/
11:03 mvuets a pleasant surprise - didn't realize it starts so soon
11:03 moritz it only starts if people commit to contributing
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11:04 smls .oO( idea for an advent calendar post: the special global-ish dynamic variables $*OUT, $*ERR, $*CWD, $*TMPDIR, $*HOME, $*SPEC, $*SCHEDULER etc. and how they can make things more flexible/clear/convenient than in Perl 5 )
11:05 moritz smls: sign up and write about it!
11:05 smls I'm not qualified enough
11:05 moritz sure you are
11:06 moritz just pick those (sub)topics that you know a bit
11:06 smls I'll think about it
11:07 moritz ++smls
11:10 timotimo i wish gtk-simple wasn't broken >_<
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11:12 smls How come the gtk-simple repo is part of the official perl6 org on github? What's so special about it?
11:14 * masak enjoyed http://www.slideshare.net/ScottWlaschin/fp-patterns-buildstufflt
11:17 timotimo smls: it was part of a repository jnthn had made for one of his talks, i extracted it for him, but didn't think it'd be fitting to put it under timo/
11:19 moritz smls: also people can put repos in the perl6 org if they want everyone[tm] to have write access
11:20 denis_boyun_ joined #perl6
11:22 mvuets what is the state of Test.pm?
11:22 mvuets is there a reference implementation?
11:22 moritz mvuets: there's a Test.pm shipped with rakudo
11:22 mvuets it spits warnings
11:23 mvuets wondering if worth fixing
11:23 moritz mvuets: what kind of warnings?
11:23 mvuets because: ## This is a temporary Test.pm to get us started until we get pugs's Test.pm / ## working. It's shamelessly stolen & adapted from MiniPerl6 in the pugs repo.
11:24 moritz seems it has evolved into a full one by now, with the comment being out of date
11:24 mvuets skip_rest emits this: use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context  in sub skip_rest at lib/Test.pm:192
11:24 mvuets yeah, seems so. pugs' one does not even have subtest()
11:24 moritz still something more structured (see Test::Builder in p5) wouldn't be bad
11:24 moritz mvuets: yes, worth fixing
11:25 mvuets so the testing api is defined in s24. does it mean Test implementation is up to language vendors?
11:26 moritz mvuets: correct
11:26 dalek rakudo/nom: a9d4c84 | masak++ | lib/Test.pm:
11:26 dalek rakudo/nom: [Test.pm] remove outdated comment
11:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a9d4c84842
11:26 moritz mvuets: though of course language implementors are free to still from other language implementors (as far as license allows it)
11:26 mvuets hmm, do i understand it right that cannot be a Test distro on CPAN6 then?
11:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 91d8995 | masak++ | lib/Test.pm:
11:27 dalek rakudo/nom: [Test.pm] update copyright date
11:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/91d8995815
11:27 moritz mvuets: well, not right now, though we do plan to support loading modules by authority (not just name)
11:27 timotimo maybe it'd be good enough to hotfix the GTK::Simple module so that i can guarantee it works for the advent calendar
11:27 timotimo but what cool thing could i build with it? :S
11:28 mvuets another question: perl6/roast.git seems missing subtest() tests - shall i try writing some?
11:29 moritz mvuets: yes please
11:29 moritz timotimo: do you know anything about the run time performance of r-j vs r-m?
11:30 mvuets and how much we care for having smartlinks (those nifty things linking tests back to specs and hence embedding code examples in synopsis-es)?
11:30 moritz mvuets: not very much, at the moment
11:30 timotimo moritz: no :(
11:30 timotimo i haven't touched r-j in a long time
11:31 mvuets ok. because i found much with --check and TODO actually mentions it
11:33 masak who's doing Dec 1 in the Advent calendar? :)
11:33 moritz masak: me
11:33 denis_boyun joined #perl6
11:35 masak great
11:35 masak ahh, but the schedule is far too empty for next week -- https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/069bb68e72e8c04f54ecd917bb44cf097900285c/misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule
11:35 moritz masak: agreed
11:36 masak preferably we should have all of next week, and preferably coming weeks, planned out by the end of today...
11:36 moritz masak: so, sign up :-)
11:36 masak ok, I can volunteer for one or two slots for next week.
11:36 masak just gotta figure out what to write about.
11:38 masak "Perl 5/Perl 6 comparison" sounds like a topic I could do.
11:39 moritz masak: also a summary of your current macro musings would be intersting
11:40 masak yes, but that would work better towards the end of the month, as I expect to have mused quite a bit more by then.
11:44 tadzik moritz: it's on https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/tree/master/server
11:44 moritz tadzik: ok, great
11:44 tadzik I'll see how out of date it is, but probably not too much
11:44 tadzik it says 2 years ago
11:48 dalek ecosystem: 82861f8 | tadzik++ | server/ (2 files):
11:48 dalek ecosystem: Update the module server
11:48 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/82861f8a07
11:48 tadzik now it's up-to-date :)
11:51 moritz tadzik++
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11:53 moritz huh, perl6-m startup time is 330ms here
11:54 moritz wasn't it down to 150ms or some months ago?
11:54 JimmyZ_ moritz: yeah, re-added the eager de serialization due  to some precomp bug
11:55 moritz :(
11:56 jnthn And introduced a different bug in the process, no?
11:56 * jnthn doesn't know what to write about for advent
11:57 jnthn Don't think I can find time for a post in the first week (too much work/distractions)
11:57 jnthn But can do something after that.
11:57 moritz jnthn: you could always do a summary of what you worked on, or an example from some of the talks you gave, or a braindump what you're working on
11:58 JimmyZ_ jnthn: yeah
11:58 jnthn Is this the first advent we've had with Rakudo on Moar?
11:58 moritz it would be awsome if we could get our GSoC students to write about their projects for the p6advent
11:59 moritz jnthn: yes
11:59 jnthn Hah!
11:59 moritz jnthn: I just checked, last year's "state" post said nqp was bootstrapped on MoarVM, but rakudo wasn't running on it
11:59 jnthn Then maybe I should write one about MoarVM :)
11:59 moritz jnthn: you should :-)
11:59 jnthn I know a little about it already, after all... :)
12:02 timotimo we could have a post that we can point annoying naysayers to who say "oh, when's perl6 going to be rewritten from scratch the next time? next week and the week after that again?"
12:03 timotimo as in "how do we know MoarVM is The One™"
12:03 moritz https://gist.github.com/moritz/7df64717d8dd772a87a0 # preview of the first advent post, feedback welcome
12:04 moritz afk
12:04 dalek mu: 3095993 | masak++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule:
12:04 dalek mu: [adv2014/schedule] claim two slots
12:04 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/30959932d4
12:04 masak others: please claim advent slots for next week!
12:05 * masak does Uncle Sam pointing-to-YOU pose
12:05 timotimo moritz: i wouldn't say moarvm is significantly faster at run time against the JVM. i think the jvm gets pretty good when it's heated up. especially for native stuff and tight code
12:05 masak moritz: s/de-factor/de facto/
12:06 masak moritz: s/supported as a backend/supported as backends/
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12:07 ab5tract o/ #perl6
12:07 yoleaux 24 Nov 2014 18:59Z <tony-o> ab5tract: fixed the HTML::Parser::XML module, it works as expected and it works with the advent sample ugexe provided
12:07 smls moritz: "make the list-y types more transparent, list iteration faster, and more transparent when a list will flatten" -- maybe avoid repetition of 'transparent'
12:07 timotimo would suggest not using "more transparent" twice
12:07 timotimo %)
12:08 masak maybe not repeat "transparent" in the sentence? :)
12:08 * masak suggests less repetition
12:08 ab5tract so i was reading about the shortfall of advent entries
12:08 ab5tract in the logs
12:10 smls moritz: s/will in some details/will fill in some details/
12:10 timotimo ab5tract: would you like to contribute? :)
12:10 ab5tract i have some stuff written about the difference between set coercers vs composers in relation to sets
12:11 * ab5tract suggests to himself less repetition for himself
12:12 ab5tract timotimo: indeed. my goal was to have an async scraper for the advent calendar with a ncurses interface
12:13 ab5tract but i've been repeatedly stymied on that front. it boils down to weird things happening at the HTTP::UserAgent layer.. I could try replacing it with LWP::Simple
12:13 masak ab5tract: please claim a slot in https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule
12:14 timotimo ugh, ncurses
12:15 ab5tract timotimo: :) ... but it's a well-known library that can highlight NativeCall while also potentially wow-ing folks if one were to put an async-y layer over the top
12:16 timotimo mhm mhm
12:16 timotimo don't forget ncurses is not reentrant :)
12:17 ab5tract i doubt ncurses would ever let me forget it :)
12:18 ab5tract masak: pull request sent
12:18 itz lose the Oxford Comma :)
12:18 timotimo that reminds me i wanted to build a nice high-level console UI library thingie
12:18 dalek mu: a907f24 | ab5tract++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule:
12:18 dalek mu: Update schedule
12:18 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/a907f245cb
12:18 dalek mu: 0323a69 | 唐鳳++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule:
12:18 dalek mu: Merge pull request #5 from ab5tract/patch-1
12:18 dalek mu:
12:18 dalek mu: Update schedule
12:18 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/0323a690ac
12:18 timotimo with all the features of ANSI5
12:19 ab5tract timotimo: pure perl?
12:19 ab5tract audreyt moves quickly :)
12:20 ab5tract another thing i can discuss are the (potential) changes to the set comparison operators, of which my patch is sitting in limbo because i get distracted easily
12:20 timotimo pure perl, aye
12:22 ab5tract timotimo: that sounds like fun. hoelzro and i were discussing the repl environment, and "wouldn't it be nice to have an simple plugin interface"
12:23 timotimo to be honest, "pure perl" tends to mean "moarvm with asynchronous IO and multithreading" these days :P
12:24 ab5tract timotimo: i thought that was the whole point of perl 6 :P
12:24 ab5tract ah, i see what you mean.. the moarvm bit
12:24 timotimo that or JVM
12:24 timotimo but as i said, i haven't touched that in a while
12:25 * psch wonders if it makes sense to make perl6-bench use the evalserver
12:25 ab5tract it feels a bit undernourished, that backend. but that's a surface level observation.. i've never seen a blog post about NativeCall on JVM, for instance. i thought it would be fun to write an interface to Processing, but didn't get much farther than imagining it
12:28 timotimo psch: perl6-bench already subtracts start-up and compile times from benchmarks
12:29 psch timotimo: okay.  but vm-warmup is a big-ish thing on jvm, isn't it?  i guess i'd have to look how perl6-bench does it's benching in the first place
12:29 JimmyZ_ http://jnthn.net/papers/2014-yapceu-performance.pdf  said while-empty was 4x slower than perl5, I think now they are the same :P
12:30 psch i guess that's actually the point of good benchmarks, to have code that will be optimized well eventually
12:34 psch huh, ./bench fails with "Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/m-BOOTSTRAP.nqp'" but the same perl6 from my env works when called directly..?
12:34 JimmyZ_ make clean in rakudo ...
12:35 JimmyZ_ and then rebuild
12:35 psch yeah, i've nuked install/ and ran git clean -xdf
12:36 timotimo psch: running a rakudo-j benchmark with all tests takes a LONG time.
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12:37 psch timotimo: oh, i expect that - i don't really plan to run everything, i just want to have a hint re: mvm vs jvm on one or two tests
12:38 timotimo ah, so like --tests-tagged or --tests?
12:39 ab5tract timotimo: if it takes so long, it surely should use the evalserver ?
12:39 psch uh, probably?  i haven't looked too closely yet at how i have to use perl6-bench... :)
12:40 timotimo the problem with the evalserver is that jit warmup is potentially shared
12:40 timotimo which would make the calculations be off
12:41 ab5tract ah
12:41 timotimo it'd be impossible to remove it just by subtracting timings and startup timings etc
12:41 ab5tract speaking of the spectest... is verbose output stored anywhere?
12:42 psch heh, maybe advocating the use of jakudo as a service is a good idea, then we can publish evalserver p6bench and claim that's real-world-use... :)
12:42 psch s/service/daemon/
12:43 timotimo you can run the "mumblemumble_summary" script to get verbose output
12:45 ab5tract find . | grep mumble   # nothing
12:49 timotimo yeah, "mumble" stands for "something i don't remember"
12:49 ab5tract :P
12:50 mvuets haha
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12:51 ab5tract what's the invocation for running a single test with harness? the quicker i can get the set comparator patch working, the sooner i can write a "how to start hacking on rakudo" advent post :)
12:52 timotimo you can make t/spec/S123-blah/foobar.t
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12:54 ab5tract timotimo: doh.. that makes sense. i was trying against the file which failed in spectest, which was moar specific. thanks
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13:01 bartolin ab5tract: you can use "perl t/harness --fudge --moar t/spec/S123-blah/foobar.t"
13:02 ab5tract bartolin: for the fudge :)
13:03 bartolin ab5tract: oh, that was not what you wanted. sorry for the noise ;-)
13:04 ab5tract not at all! that probably should have been written as "thank you for the fudge" :)
13:04 bartolin *g*
13:06 dalek mu: c259106 | nige123++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule:
13:06 dalek mu: Update schedule
13:06 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/c259106523
13:06 dalek mu: c9594ac | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule:
13:06 dalek mu: Merge pull request #6 from nige123/patch-1
13:06 dalek mu:
13:06 dalek mu: Update schedule
13:06 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/c9594ace44
13:06 psch re: advent calender: i guess struggling with understand code-gen for the jvm backend is not quite worthy of a post, but that's about what i can think of i could write about
13:06 moritz ab5tract: please /msg me your email address so that I can invite you to the advent calendar
13:06 moritz psch: I'd like to read that
13:08 psch moritz: alright, i guess i have to pick a day then
13:08 psch and take more extensive notes as well...
13:10 psch i'm thinking an overview of "what does running perl6-j do and how did i get to understand it" is somewhat of a decent title/summary
13:11 psch looking at topic-brainstorming that should probably come before NativeCall-jvm, if anyone writes about that
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13:13 psch i'll try to pin down a date until this evening, got some other stuff to do about now o/
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13:20 dalek mu: c3bb8dc | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule:
13:20 dalek mu: Commit to doing an advent piece on 5 dec
13:20 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/c3bb8dcd71
13:25 moritz anybody else in need of a perl6advent.wordpress.com invite?
13:28 lizmat having claimed 5 dec, please note that I'm not stuck to that date and could do it later  :-)
13:29 colomon we don't have a day 1 on the schedule?
13:29 moritz we have
13:29 moritz or did I forget to push?
13:30 bartolin colomon: you probably only looked at the diff?
13:30 colomon yes
13:30 colomon bartolin++
13:30 moritz that shows only 3 lines of context :-)
13:31 colomon moritz++
13:31 moritz colomon: gist link for a preview is in the backlog
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13:59 ab5tract hmm.. i get a fair number of failed tests when running make spectest against nom. are there a specific set of steps that need to be taken when switching between branches on rakudo.git in order to have a "clean" run of the spec suite?
13:59 ab5tract s/are there/is there/
14:01 ab5tract i'm already rm'ing all .moar files in t/spec before running make spectest after switching branches. but should i be doing a distclean or something?
14:02 timotimo what symptom are you seeing?
14:04 lizmat ab5tract: are you on OS X ?
14:04 tony-o timotimo: gonna rebuild moar with ASAN, the two envirovars didn't stop the errors
14:04 ab5tract timotimo: https://gist.github.com/ab5tract/211fd789b8071fce9599
14:04 ab5tract lizmat: yup
14:04 timotimo tony-o: OK, thanks
14:04 lizmat welcome to my world  :-(
14:04 ab5tract :/
14:05 lizmat spectests on OS X can only be described as "flaky" at the moment  :-(
14:05 tony-o timotimo: should i just do --moar-options='ASAN=1' ?
14:05 ab5tract ok..
14:05 timotimo i think it has to be --moar-options=--asan
14:05 tony-o ok
14:05 timotimo [Coke]: if i write an article about GTK::Simple - maybe in combination with cairo - could you help me make sure everything works on OSX, too? IIRC you got it to work on your machine
14:06 tony-o i have gtk working on my machine too ..
14:06 tony-o (osx)
14:06 dalek rakudo/newio: b0605fc | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO (2 files):
14:06 dalek rakudo/newio: Add missing .spurt methods
14:06 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b0605fc98a
14:06 dalek rakudo/newio: 8b565a6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
14:06 dalek rakudo/newio: Streamline spurt functionality
14:06 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8b565a6456
14:06 dalek rakudo/newio: db00491 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IOU.pm:
14:06 dalek rakudo/newio: Set that on successful open/mkdir/spurt
14:06 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/db00491834
14:06 ab5tract lizmat: so that begins to explain why they don't even necessarily appear consistent
14:06 lizmat indeed...
14:07 ab5tract makes chasing down the bugs pretty difficult .... :(
14:07 timotimo tony-o: did you have to change anything, like the library name in "is native"?
14:07 ab5tract but, at least my set comparator changes pass the set related tests :D
14:07 lizmat it's some memory corruption that seems related to the way OS X does ASLR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_space_layout_randomization)
14:07 timotimo or build gtk with brew or macports?
14:07 tony-o timotimo: yea just leave off the .dylib or .so
14:08 lizmat that happens on moment X, but isn't showing up until Y (which is much later in process terms)
14:08 tony-o iirc we checked it in debian and it worked that wre without the .whatever
14:08 ab5tract lizmat: joy :( :(
14:08 [Coke] timotimo: sure, I'll be your os x guinea pig.
14:08 timotimo thank you
14:08 lizmat whether this is a problem of OS X, or simply more prominently visible on OS X due to something like ASLR
14:08 lizmat who knows
14:08 tony-o s/that wre/there/
14:09 lizmat jnthn at least now has access to an OS X machine so he can look at it
14:09 timotimo i know i can make GTK::Simple compile by removing the "use GTK::Gdk" line, maybe it'll also work to just put the GDK module's contents into the same file
14:09 * [Coke] does not like this dizzy symptom. yikes.
14:09 tony-o are you sick too [Coke] ?
14:09 ab5tract lizmat: that is indeed good news
14:10 timotimo jnthn already found a few things on os x and made them better
14:10 dalek rakudo/newio: a9d4c84 | masak++ | lib/Test.pm:
14:10 dalek rakudo/newio: [Test.pm] remove outdated comment
14:10 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a9d4c84842
14:10 dalek rakudo/newio: 91d8995 | masak++ | lib/Test.pm:
14:10 dalek rakudo/newio: [Test.pm] update copyright date
14:10 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/91d8995815
14:10 dalek rakudo/newio: 0bdd9f3 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | lib/Test.pm:
14:10 dalek rakudo/newio: Merge branch 'nom' into newio
14:10 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0bdd9f3ddd
14:10 * lizmat was pretty sick yesterday and this morning...
14:10 lizmat some sleep here at the hackathon helped me a lot
14:10 lizmat fortunately, the office here has a nice area for a quick nap
14:10 tony-o i got sick yesterday on a bike ride still about 2 hours away from home
14:10 lizmat (which wasn't so quick in my case)
14:11 lizmat tony-o: that sucks...
14:12 tony-o timotimo: i get those errors with --asan and both env vars set
14:13 tony-o lizmat: being sick is always gross
14:13 ab5tract it is also good news that i've been worrying about my set changes breaking things, when in fact its endemic
14:14 lizmat as long as the test file runs ok by itself, you should be ok
14:14 lizmat at least, that's what I've been going by
14:19 jnthn Wow, so sickness... Hope y'all get well soon...
14:20 jnthn Yes, the OSX failures are a darn nuisance. Things are far cleaner for me than they were after a couple of patches, but still not clean :/
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14:38 [Coke] tony-o: vomit and dizziness, that's me.
14:40 ab5tract jnthn: i'm thinking that these may also explain some of the seemingly random failures i've been having when working on the Adventoratuer
14:42 ab5tract which, in the context of memory, start to make more sense... 'Malformed UTF-8', 'Could not open file: {$impossible-location}', etc
14:43 JimmyZ_ that's different thing..
14:43 cosimo mvuets: pong
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14:54 dalek rakudo/newio: 8c062d1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IOU.pm:
14:54 dalek rakudo/newio: Pass any extra .new parameter on through
14:54 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8c062d159c
14:54 dalek rakudo/newio: c73c0b1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO/Dir.pm:
14:54 dalek rakudo/newio: A child of Dir is not necessarily a Dir
14:54 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c73c0b1235
14:54 dalek rakudo/newio: 54d2711 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnit (3 files):
14:54 dalek rakudo/newio: Initial IO::Path sanitation of CompUnit and friends
14:54 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/54d271178f
14:56 dalek rakudo/newio: d027745 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnit.pm:
14:56 dalek rakudo/newio: Remove superfluous reference to $*SPEC
14:56 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d027745f8d
14:59 ab5tract JimmyZ_: oh?
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15:01 lizmat ab5tract: fwiw, what you describe, sounds familiar to me
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15:26 b2gills m: sub example ( $ --> Int | Failure ){ ... } # Is there a way to get this to work?
15:26 camelia rakudo-moar 91d899: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/kBW6J1HBRUâ�¤Missing blockâ�¤at /tmp/kBW6J1HBRU:1â�¤------> [32msub example ( $ --> Int [33mâ��[31m| Failure ){ ... } # Is there a way to g[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤â€¦Â»
15:27 lizmat m: sub a(--> Int) { fail "foo" }: my $a = a'
15:27 camelia rakudo-moar 91d899: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/FTtSlZZom9�Invocant colon not allowed here�at /tmp/FTtSlZZom9:1�------> [32msub a(--> Int) { fail "foo" }:[33m�[31m my $a = a'[0m�»
15:27 lizmat m: sub a(--> Int) { fail "foo" }; my $a = a'
15:27 camelia rakudo-moar 91d899: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/D1b8x9o8yZâ�¤Two terms in a rowâ�¤at /tmp/D1b8x9o8yZ:1â�¤------> [32msub a(--> Int) { fail "foo" }; my $a = a[33mâ��[31m'[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        argument listâ�¤        postfixâ�¤ …»
15:28 lizmat m: sub a(--> Int) { fail "foo" }; my $a = a
15:28 camelia rakudo-moar 91d899: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Failure'␤  in any return_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:649␤  in sub a at /tmp/fjTCKn7wdu:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/fjTCKn7wdu:1␤␤»
15:29 lizmat hmmm.. that feels like a bug, as I seem to recall a Failure should survive a type check like that...
15:31 jnthn It's up for debate. It really hoses a good bit of compile time optimization if you can't actually trust your types.
15:31 jnthn So I'm generally against such magic.
15:31 jnthn The Nil discontinuity in assignment is already bad enough.
15:32 masak (fewer exceptions in the type system)++
15:32 masak sounds to me like Failure wants to be a bottom type, though.
15:35 b2gills So the only course of action is to fail immediately in that case
15:36 b2gills m: sub a(--> Int) { my $FATAL = True; fail "foo" }; my $a = a
15:36 camelia rakudo-moar 91d899: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Failure'␤  in any return_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:649␤  in sub a at /tmp/T1aTovFSDM:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/T1aTovFSDM:1␤␤»
15:36 b2gills m: sub a(--> Int) { my $*FATAL = True; fail "foo" }; my $a = a
15:36 camelia rakudo-moar 91d899: OUTPUT«foo␤  in sub a at /tmp/oVOsj4nTzY:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/oVOsj4nTzY:1␤␤»
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15:45 vendethiel o/, #perl6
15:46 dalek rakudo/newio: d8fe25a | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Locally.pm:
15:46 dalek rakudo/newio: Make sure we get a Str for a CompUnitRepo
15:46 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d8fe25a6ef
15:46 dalek rakudo/newio: 31040e6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/CompUnit.pm:
15:46 dalek rakudo/newio: Handle path -> abspath migration
15:46 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/31040e609a
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15:48 lizmat Patch -p2 hackathon dwindling down...
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16:10 smls moritz: Would "Data munging in Perl 6 vs Perl 5" be acceptable as a perl6advent topic?
16:11 smls Rather than focus on any particular Perl 6 feature, I'd do one or two small case studies for contrieved-but-practical usecases that involve reading stuff from a file, putting it into a data structure, transforming said data structure, and printing output.
16:11 smls I.e. the kind of quick-and-dirty scripting that sysadmins/powerusers/students/scientists etc. tend to use Perl 5 for in practice (as opposed to "professional programmers building full-fledged applications").
16:11 smls And hopefully show that Perl 6 can be a good replacement for Perl 5 in that area... :)
16:12 vendethiel smls: I actually have bad slides for a talk like that :)
16:12 smls I'd go through the Perl 5 and Perl 6 solutions for the case study side-by-side and step-by-step, noting not just superficial syntax differences, but how one would most idiomatically approach each step in each language.
16:12 vendethiel (that's pretty much 99% of my P6 use at $work)
16:13 smls vendethiel: Are the slide public? :)
16:13 smls *s
16:13 vendethiel smls: no, they're terrible :P
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16:16 smls I've already come up with a tiny case-study that allows me to show off «.lines» (as a lazy list!), «.map», a sigspace'd regex, a hash, «.grep», «.classify», «.comb», «.sort», and string interpolation.
16:16 lizmat smls++
16:16 smls (in 12 LOC, some of which are boring 'say' statements...)
16:17 smls But I'd maybe like to have a second case-study for showing off hyper/meta ops and maybe Sets/Bags/Mixes etc.
16:17 lizmat Patch -p shutting down&
16:19 vendethiel smls: https://gist.github.com/vendethiel/69bad550355ec5455ebd
16:19 vendethiel few examples if you want 'em
16:20 smls vendethiel: Thanks
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16:46 timotimo .tell azawawi will you write a post on the advent calendar about farabi6?
16:46 yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to azawawi.
16:49 timotimo a blog post about HTTP::Server::Async could be pretty neat, too
17:00 smls Here's another idea for a perl6advent post I'd like to see: "Language Consistency & Correctness (a.k.a. Less Special Syntax & Magic)"
17:00 smls But someone more knowledgeable than me should write that one... :)
17:01 smls Although I did come up with some initial bullet points: https://gist.github.com/smls/116c4e55de020e17829a
17:02 smls ^^ timotimo? moritz? lizmat? TimToady? :)
17:02 b2gills masak: Perhaps `Failure` could be a Role.
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17:04 smls I know that topic of P6's goal of consistency/correctness (and by extension, extensibility) has been touched on multiple times already, but it would be nice to have a focused blog post written by an expert, that shows just how much that idea permeates P6's design...
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17:21 moritz smls: when I started to realize the reasons and implications around these factors, I wrote the 5-to-6 blog post series to try to explain them
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17:23 moritz smls: though I'm not sure I can summiarze it into a single blog post (espeically without feeling that I'm just rehashing what I wrote on my blog, and on perlmonks and mailing lists)
17:27 smls I don't think rehashing is necessarily bad
17:30 smls Lots of little bits information on a topic floating around various places on the net, don't have the same effect as a dedicated (and concise) blog post covering that topic specifically (and trying to explaining the underlying intentions and general patterns)
17:34 timotimo smls: i like the idea and the bullet points you've found so far :)
17:35 smls timotimo: Then adopt it :)
17:35 timotimo moi?
17:36 timotimo i'm hard at work thinking about potential topics as well
17:37 timotimo what do the cool kids do with async http servers these days?
17:37 vendethiel .oO( they scale )
17:39 timotimo well, we don't. we just crash :P
17:47 tony-o timotimo: what did the asan thing do?
17:48 tony-o or what does it do?
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18:06 tony-o timotimo: also, jvm seems to work fine - i did 25k requests in 5m with wrk (10 threads)
18:07 dalek snake: 11580c8 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/Snake/ (2 files):
18:07 dalek snake: Handle circumfix parens.
18:07 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnsholt/snake/commit/11580c818c
18:07 dalek snake: 5570b0b | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/Snake/Grammar.nqp:
18:07 dalek snake: Update a TODO.
18:07 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnsholt/snake/commit/5570b0b5c5
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18:13 moritz p6advent post for tomorrow scheduled for publishing
18:13 tony-o a little less than half of what i get from nginx ..
18:16 vendethiel niiiiice
18:16 vendethiel I'm so excited :3
18:17 colomon \o/
18:18 perltricks ohhh cool. Is there still time to contribute an rticle?
18:18 vendethiel sure :)
18:19 perltricks vendethiel: who should I send it to?
18:19 vendethiel perltricks: https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule
18:20 tony-o ooh the moar server beats out the nginx example in a slightly unfair comparison
18:20 perltricks vendethiel: thx :)
18:21 vendethiel "slightly unfair" hahaha
18:21 tony-o the nginx serves a static file while the moar version just writes out the socket
18:21 tony-o it server 48k requests in 10 minutes tho
18:21 tony-o with only 1 error
18:22 tony-o sorry, 5 minutes ^^
18:25 jnthn tony-o: Wow...
18:25 jnthn So serve.
18:25 jnthn tony-o++
18:26 smls moritz: I just added a comment to your advent post gist (https://gist.github.com/moritz/7df64717d8dd772a87a0), is it too late?
18:27 tony-o hmm still getting this tho: Unhandled exception in code scheduled on thread 4476928000
18:27 tony-o Unhandled exception: When invoking is_bindable, Provided outer frame 0x7fb1b5158bf0 (MVMStaticFrame bind_one_param) does not match expected static frame type 0x7fb1b51589b0 (MVMStaticFrame )
18:27 tony-o only happens in moar
18:29 jnthn Yeah, I've run into that one in my photo app
18:29 jnthn I need to hunt it down
18:29 jnthn bboiab...
18:29 jnthn *bbiab
18:29 tony-o bbiab?
18:30 smls "be back in a bit"
18:30 tony-o ah
18:30 tony-o jnthn: i've tracked mine down to here but i'm not sure what i could do differently to avoid the problem: https://github.com/tony-o/perl6-http-server-async/blob/master/lib/HTTP/Server/Async.pm6#L48
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18:46 moritz smls: not too late, but maybe a bit too much; IMHO that's a topic for another post
18:47 moritz smls: a "Where is rakudo fast? Where is it slow?"-post would be very welcome
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18:51 timotimo smls: are you sure we're not much faster than moose - at least on moarvm?
18:52 timotimo maybe something's not being rooted when we do something or other ...
18:52 timotimo yeah, that's unhelpful
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19:04 smls timotimo: Nah I'm not sure about any performance claims as I haven't done any benchmarks myself; it's just things I heard from jnthn's and lizmat's talks etc.
19:08 colomon moritz: two more comments (much smaller, thankfully) since smls's.  ;)
19:08 timotimo we don't really have benchmarks that directly contrast the performance of classes in p5 moose vs p6
19:10 smls in any case, the start-up time of perl6 scripts tend to be similar to what I'm used to from perl+moose scripts, so at least in that area the comparison seems valid... :)
19:11 smls Of course, few things can compete with the 0.00 seconds that perl takes to parse, compile & start a medium-sized Perl 5 script that doesn't use any modules... :P
19:13 dalek mu: 146dee4 | (David Farrell)++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule:
19:13 dalek mu: added new proposed advent article
19:13 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/146dee43e5
19:13 dalek mu: 574c5fe | colomon++ | misc/perl6advent-2014/schedule:
19:13 dalek mu: Merge pull request #7 from sillymoose/master
19:13 dalek mu:
19:13 dalek mu: added new proposed advent article
19:13 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/574c5fe6f7
19:19 dalek perl6-roast-data: ed98fd7 | coke++ | / (4 files):
19:19 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:19 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/ed98fd7685
19:20 perltricks colomon: thx :)
19:20 colomon perltricks++
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19:25 * colomon just tried out parallel mandelbrot 4 times in a row, getting one success and three different failures.  :(
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19:35 moritz perltricks: /msg me your email address to get an invitation to the p6advent blog
19:40 tony-o jnthn: ping
19:41 mvuets cosimo: hi! i had troubles with LWP::Simple tests yesterday. kind folks helped to overcome problems, and i tried to adjust the test that failed. just sent you a pr, could you please take a look and say if that makes sense
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20:12 [Coke] .tell mvuets using .tell is more likely to get heard later.
20:12 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to mvuets.
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20:43 jnthn tony-o: pong
20:45 btyler nativecall question: for making bindings to APIs that heavily use structs to define options for a given function, is there any way around defining said structs in p6?
20:45 arnsholt Nope
20:45 btyler libgit2 does a lot of that, and many "foo_options" structs embed other structs, which also need defining...all the way down
20:46 arnsholt Yeah, that sucks
20:46 arnsholt Also, are the embedded structs pointers, or just embedded?
20:46 arnsholt ('Cause we don't support embedded structs yet)
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20:47 btyler all the ones I've bumped into so far are pointers
20:47 arnsholt Good
20:47 btyler so I've been stubbing with OpaquePointer until suddenly something tries to read from the pointed-to struct and ...boom :)
20:47 arnsholt But yeah, the struct defining sucks
20:48 btyler I had fleeting thoughts of something to automate it, since it's a fairly mechanical process, but I suspect implementing something on that level of magic would take me a long, long time
20:48 btyler and be quite fragile in any case
20:49 jnthn Well, an 80% solution might still be a time-saver
20:49 arnsholt Definitely
20:50 arnsholt I think it should be reasonably doable with something like clangs parser hooks
20:50 jnthn Something that spits out Perl 6 code with XXX comments in places it thonks you'd really better review
20:50 jnthn *thinks
20:50 btyler sounds fun -and- educational
20:51 arnsholt I even have a name for a project like that, but not the tuits to implement it
20:53 btyler on the topic of nativecall, I defined helpers '&-in-c' and '*-in-c' that feel like they might belong at a lower level than my binding: https://github.com/kanatohodets/p6-git2/blob/master/lib/Git2.pm#L10
20:55 btyler but I don't know if there's a way to do it that doesn't surprise people with messages about CArrays that they're not expecting
20:55 btyler or needing to define native subs that take CArray[thing]
20:55 leedo_ this is a stupid question, but whats the difference between a prefix operator and plain sub in p6?
20:56 masak leedo_: not a stupid question.
20:57 psch m: (1, 2, 3).map(!) # boom
20:57 tony-o jnthn: i've tracked mine down to here but i'm not sure what i could do differently to avoid the problem: https://github.com/tony-o/perl6-http-server-async/blob/master/lib/HTTP/Server/Async.pm6#L48
20:57 camelia rakudo-moar 91d899: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/UrZmrQ5J5M�Negation metaoperator not followed by valid infix�at /tmp/UrZmrQ5J5M:1�------> [32m(1, 2, 3).map(![33m�[31m) # boom[0m�»
20:57 masak leedo_: hm, let's see. a prefix operator can be symbolic, like `+`
20:57 masak leedo_: also, what psch said.
20:57 jnthn Prefix operators can have different precedences also
20:57 psch although i supposed ! is different than usual prefixes
20:57 psch ? might have been a better example
20:58 masak psch: `!` isn' that different.
20:58 jnthn "foo 1, 2, 3" always means "foo(1, 2, 3)", but depending on precedence the foo might just bind to the 1
20:58 tony-o jnthn: without that $*SCHEDULER.cue bit, i end up with no segfaults or thread errors on moar
20:58 leedo_ ok, that all makes sense :) just seemed unclear why &-in-c woudl be a prefix and not a sub
20:59 masak leedo_: it's really a matter of taste and intended usage.
20:59 psch masak: i was mostly going on the error message, it states "metaoperator" and we can do != but not ?=
20:59 btyler (disclaimer about &-in-c: I'm learning p6 as I go, no best practices to be found in my code)
21:00 jnthn tony-o: I'm not at all convinced your code is to blame.
21:00 moritz btyler: they looko fine, but in the long run I'd really prefer a dedicated pointer type
21:00 moritz *looks
21:01 btyler moritz: that was my general feeling, seemed like something that belongs outside a given binding
21:01 jnthn tony-o: It looks like some kind of race condition...somewhere. but I don't think it's in what you've written.
21:04 tony-o jnthn: yea i definitely have a race condition but i'd think that the connection close would just fail and move on
21:05 Mso150_s joined #perl6
21:05 jnthn tony-o: I mean, something internal to Rakudo has the race.
21:05 tony-o jnthn: ah
21:06 jnthn I've seen the same thing happen in a completely different code-base using the same primitives you are, but though doing a totally different set of things.
21:07 tony-o think it's a problem with channels?
21:08 jnthn I doubt it; I'm not using those. Just promises and supplies.
21:08 jnthn The thing about wrong outer smells of a race in taking closure clones...
21:32 colomon jnthn: for what it's worth, the parallel mandelbrot code, which is just very straightforward promises, I think, is not stable on moar or jvm.  though it's more stable-ish on jvm, it seems.
21:32 colomon that's with rakudos from earlier this afternoon.
21:36 pmurias joined #perl6
21:36 dalek nqp-js: fe08dda | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
21:36 dalek nqp-js: Add a .log method for logging stuff to nqpjs.log when the env var NQPJS_LOG is set.
21:36 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/fe08ddad1d
21:36 dalek nqp-js: 224785c | (Pawel Murias)++ | / (12 files):
21:36 dalek nqp-js: Add a mini-nqpmo (a proper nqpmo will be generated properly in future commits).
21:36 dalek nqp-js:
21:36 dalek nqp-js: The following code works now:
21:36 dalek nqp-js: my class NQPMu {
21:36 dalek nqp-js: }
21:36 dalek nqp-js: my class Foo {
21:36 dalek nqp-js:     method foo() {
21:36 dalek nqp-js:         say("hi");
21:36 dalek nqp-js:     }
21:36 dalek nqp-js: }
21:36 dalek nqp-js: Foo.foo;
21:36 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias/nqp-js/commit/224785ceeb
21:38 arnsholt pmurias++ # nqpjs
21:38 ohcamacj-2 joined #perl6
21:48 ron1230 joined #perl6
21:49 ron1230 Have been to the department of energy (doe), nuclear regulatory commission (nrc), and national institute of health (nih) web sites and hate what I see.
21:50 ron1230 I am hungry, tired, have no clean clothing and wish you all would go to hell.  I called the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea.
21:51 * moritz hugs ron1230
21:52 ron1230 Call to DPRK was this afternoon.  Am ronaldxs on github.  bye.
21:54 ron1230 moritz: do you want me to hug you back?  You are wasting my time.  You all look like assholes.
21:54 btyler sounds like someone left a screen unlocked
21:55 moritz ron1230: no; it merely sounds like you need a hug
21:55 ron1230 moritz: no you are lying
21:55 Timbus lol
21:57 ron1230 You are accessories to murder and other crimes by the way and may be appropriate for people to come after you for that.
21:57 ron1230 Anyone have a sensible comment.
21:57 ron1230 ?
21:57 masak ron1230: you look like you need several hugs.
21:57 * masak hugs ron1230
21:58 * moritz hugs ron1230 again
21:58 * TimToady hugs ron1230
21:58 ron1230 masak: drop dead
21:58 [Tux] joined #perl6
21:58 Timbus no comment
21:58 * masak hugs ron1230
21:58 masak ron1230: welcome to #perl6.
22:01 masak ron1230: ooh, I see you contributed to November back in 2011.
22:01 masak ron1230++
22:01 ab5tract joined #perl6
22:02 ron1230 (doe) http://www.energy.gov/science-innovation/national-labs (nrc) http://www.nrc.gov/ (nih) http://www.nih.gov/health/NIHandSleeplessinAmerica/
22:02 ron1230 big trouble
22:02 ron1230 bye
22:03 masak bye, ron1230.
22:03 ron1230 left #perl6
22:03 * moritz points out that NIH is also Not Invented Here
22:03 masak the "Not Invented Here" acronym always gives me cognitive dissonance.
22:04 masak probably because it's a slogan used to *avoid* certain products.
22:04 jnthn Would you like it better if you'd invented it? :P
22:04 moritz masak: I experience NIH as a disguised lack of domain knowledge
22:05 masak jnthn: if I had invented it, "NIH" would mean that a company or group *loved* things they didn't invent themselves!
22:05 moritz I think "this library is total overkill for solving $X, I only need a tiny subset that I can implement quicker than the new dependency is worth"
22:06 moritz and then I start implementing stuff
22:06 moritz and realize why the library is a lot bigger than what I'm building: because the domain actually needs it
22:07 moritz anyway, time to sleep
22:07 jnthn 'night, moritz
22:08 masak sleep well, moritz++
22:14 ab5tract joined #perl6
22:20 ron1230 joined #perl6
22:23 ron1230 Hating to waste all of our time and trying to move on.  DOE seems to have changed a bit http://www.energy.gov/articles/national-lab-day-how-national-labs-keep-moving-america-forward-0 (look at all slides)  and http://www.energy.gov/articles/womeninstem-physicist-focuses-scientific-advancement
22:38 psch progress \o/
22:39 psch i'm now installing a method that lists the number of candidates existing in the foreign class for the shortname
22:39 psch now i just gotta figure out how to handle the dispatch logic instead of writing that method
22:42 psch i guess that's where i can borrow a bit from IndyBootStrap.methcall_noa and IndyBootStrap.methcallResolve_noa, although variable arity is something i'm not yet sure how to handle
22:45 jnthn psch: If just having the args as an array is helpful, I think there's an asVarArgsCollector or somehting in the MethodHandles combinator set
22:53 psch jnthn: noted, i'll look at that.  i'm still unsure how arguments from p6land end up in jvm-land
22:54 psch the IndyBootStrap.*resolve methods get an Object slurpy, which gets handed to ArgsExpectation.invokeByExpectation, but that's already after the arguments got gathered into the Object[] i gather
22:54 jnthn psch: Yes, but it then updates the callsite with something more specialized for the follow-up invocatin.
22:54 jnthn *invocation
22:54 jnthn iirc
22:55 jnthn A lot of the things in IndyBootstrap work like that.
22:56 psch ooh, methcall_noa is mapped to QAST::Op(:op<callmethod>)
22:57 psch that should maybe have been somewhat obvious
22:59 psch well, i'll look closer tomorrow.  i also have quite a few notes i'll expand to an advent post, which might actually focus on "java multis now prettier" if i have enough tuits to finish the implementation and the post soonish
23:00 psch with that, g'night o/
23:53 rmgk_ joined #perl6
23:59 ron1230 Hope all ate well at Thanksgiving and are in good health.  Good night.
23:59 ron1230 left #perl6

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