Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-01-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:35 * masak just got bitten by https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=71544
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01:18 retupmoca m: await do for 1..5 { start { buf8.new } }
01:18 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: ( no output )
01:18 retupmoca m: await do for 1..5 { start { buf8.new } }
01:18 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: None of the parametric role variants for 'Buf' matched the arguments supplied.␤Ambiguous call to ''; these signatures all match:␤:(::$?CLASS ::::?CLASS $, ::T $ = { ... })␤:(::$?CLASS ::::?CLASS $, ::T $ = { ... })␤   at <unkno…»
01:18 retupmoca ok, it's not just me
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01:21 colomon retupmoca: was that the same code line both times there?
01:22 retupmoca colomon: yup
01:22 colomon ugh
01:23 masak `::$?CLASS ::::?CLASS $` ?
01:23 masak that's a lot of colons...
01:24 masak 'night, #perl6
01:24 colomon o
01:24 colomon o/
01:27 dalek roast: 913d4fe | util++ | S0 (2 files):
01:27 dalek roast: Fix typos.
01:27 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/913d4fedb7
01:27 dalek roast: 9ac0cab | util++ | S03-operators/buf.t:
01:27 dalek roast: Fix cut-and-paste: s/substr/subbuf/.
01:27 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9ac0cab636
01:27 dalek roast: 4e43db6 | util++ | / (4 files):
01:27 dalek roast: Standardized "whitespaces" to "whitespace" or "whitespace characters".
01:27 dalek roast: See "uncountable noun" discussion at:
01:27 dalek roast: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/​25368/what-is-the-plural-form-of-whitespace
01:27 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4e43db6709
01:30 vendethiel masak, count the colons to sleep ;-)
01:31 retupmoca is there an easy/good way to do a lock in nqp code?
01:32 tinyblak joined #perl6
01:51 dalek roast: 3a2c7f8 | skids++ | S04-statements/gather.t:
01:51 dalek roast: Add (fudged) test for RT#66820
01:51 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3a2c7f8962
01:51 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=66820
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01:55 vendethiel we don't have anything akin to "newtype" in perl6, right?
01:57 vendethiel m: sub Newtype(Mu:U \T){class Newtype { has T $.val is rw handles **; }; }; my \kg = Newtype[Int]; my $kg1 = kg.new(:5val); my $kg2 = kg.new(:10val); say $kg1 + $kg2
01:57 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No compile-time value for T␤»
01:57 vendethiel mmmh...
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02:02 vendethiel haskell's take with newtype is interesting, but known to have issues (mostly due to interactions between laziness and type erasure, though). F#'s take is also interesting, but a bit more narrow (mostly made for differentiating integer stuff)
02:02 vendethiel I just saw that nim has "distinct" also
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03:25 dalek roast: 92b416c | skids++ | S06-advanced/callframe.t:
03:25 dalek roast: Add test for RT#77752.  Should be closeable.
03:25 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/92b416ca8b
03:25 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=77752
03:32 japhb .tell retupmoca I added an nqp test file for locks, you should be able to find it in t/concurrency.
03:32 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to retupmoca.
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04:07 dalek roast: 5c539db | skids++ | S05-interpolation/regex-in-variable.t:
04:07 dalek roast: Add test for RT#100232 which might be fixed at this point
04:07 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5c539db0a7
04:07 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=100232
04:10 Mouq m: my $x = q[1}#]; q[a] ~~ /<$x>/ # I don't think it is :(
04:10 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: ( no output )
04:11 Mouq (That should die; "1}#" is not a valid regex)
04:11 * Mouq wonders how hard fixing it would be…
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04:34 skids r: my $x = '#'; q[a] ~~ /<$x>/
04:34 camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Regex not terminated.â�¤at EVAL_0:1â�¤------> [32manon regex { ^#}[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤Malformed regexâ�¤at EVAL_0:1â�¤------> [32manon regex { ^#}[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        infi…»
04:35 woolfy joined #perl6
04:38 skids r: my $x = '#'; '#' ~~ /1<$x>/
04:38 camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} 7fd2f6: ( no output )
04:38 skids r: my $x = '#'; '1#' ~~ /1<$x>/
04:38 camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Regex not terminated.â�¤at EVAL_0:1â�¤------> [32manon regex { ^#}[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤Malformed regexâ�¤at EVAL_0:1â�¤------> [32manon regex { ^#}[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        infi…»
04:43 vendethiel joined #perl6
04:46 raydiak star: $*VM.name
04:46 raydiak star: $*VM.name.say
04:46 camelia star-{m,p} 2014.12: ( no output )
04:46 camelia star-p 2014.12: OUTPUT«parrot␤»
04:46 camelia ..star-m 2014.12: OUTPUT«moar␤»
04:47 raydiak star-m: sub malloc (int) returns OpaquePointer is native {*}; sub memset (OpaquePointer, int8, int) returns OpaquePointer is native {*}; my $ptr = malloc(8); memset $ptr, 1, 8; say $ptr; say nativecast OpaquePointer, $ptr;
04:47 camelia star-m 2014.12: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/ctzCubpkdDâ�¤Missing blockâ�¤at /tmp/ctzCubpkdD:1â�¤------> [32msub malloc (int) returns [33mâ��[31mOpaquePointer is native {*}; sub memset [0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        statement listâ�¤   …»
04:47 raydiak star-m: use NativeCall; sub malloc (int) returns OpaquePointer is native {*}; sub memset (OpaquePointer, int8, int) returns OpaquePointer is native {*}; my $ptr = malloc(8); memset $ptr, 1, 8; say $ptr; say nativecast OpaquePointer, $ptr;
04:47 camelia star-m 2014.12: OUTPUT«OpaquePointer<0x56548c0>␤O​paquePointer<0x101010101010101>␤»
04:52 skids r: my $x = q[1}#]; $x.say; (q[1}#] ~~ /<$x>/).perl.say;
04:52 camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«1}#␤Match.new(orig => "1}#", from => 0, to => 1, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new())␤»
04:55 raydiak .tell FROGGS https://github.com/raydiak/MoarVM/commit/​172048c53389581710bb741dfeff9d1845a85fe7 thoughts?
04:55 yoleaux raydiak: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
04:58 raydiak .tell FROGGS after that, this seems to work: https://github.com/raydiak/MoarVM/commit/​e53d2cce7e1bcb22fc0588630a44d5db2b77e13c
04:58 yoleaux raydiak: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
04:59 raydiak .karma hugme
05:00 raydiak huh
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05:04 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 4db2af3 | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
05:04 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
05:04 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/4db2af336a
05:07 [Coke] masak: you don't say what the expected behavior there is on RT #71544
05:07 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=71544
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06:44 anhduy hello
06:45 adu hello
06:46 anhduy oh where are you from? @adu
06:47 adu here
06:48 woolfy good morning from Brussels where we are off to start the Perl-presence at FOSDEM
06:48 woolfy left #perl6
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06:49 adu I heard of that
06:51 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
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07:06 moritz good morning
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07:39 raydiak m: say chr(0) x 1e6 # this just reminded me I still haven't set a ulimit :P
07:39 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀​␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀␀…»
07:40 raydiak wow it works?
07:41 raydiak m: my $a = chr(0) x 1e6; say qx[[free -h]]
07:41 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«qx, qqx is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:1␤  in sub QX at src/RESTRICTED.setting:11␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Dn3vftJBri:1␤␤»
07:41 raydiak oh right
07:47 alinbsp joined #perl6
07:47 moritz raydiak: it runs with various resource limits
07:49 raydiak guess I only had like 2 gigs or so available before it woulda started swapping...at least it ran up impressively quickly :)
07:51 raydiak wonder if I disabled swap if it the process wuold die instead of hard freezing my laptop
07:52 raydiak s/it //; s/wuold/would/
07:54 rurban joined #perl6
07:55 * raydiak should learn the sysrq keys
07:56 adu good morning
07:56 raydiak or scratch them into the plastic for frequent reference :P
07:56 raydiak good morning adu
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08:07 * TimToady in J now
08:10 sergot morning o/
08:10 dalek evalbot: 72360a4 | moritz++ | run.sh:
08:10 dalek evalbot: Source perlbrew bashrc
08:10 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/72360a49ba
08:12 * raydiak wonders where J is
08:12 raydiak g'morning sergot
08:12 moritz http://live.fosdem.org/ "Room Janson" I'd guess
08:12 raydiak ah ha
08:14 xfix joined #perl6
08:15 * TimToady looks for the camera
08:15 raydiak hey 9:30 is in 15 minutes...and 12:30 AM here :P
08:15 jdv79 t-15 and no streams yet
08:15 moritz .tell nine I've mucked a bit with camelia's service file, avoiding bash -i (it complained about inappropriate ioctl) and added some security features
08:15 yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to nine.
08:16 darutoko joined #perl6
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08:33 raydiak we can haz streemz? *crosses fingers*
08:35 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
08:36 sjn \o
08:37 raydiak good morning pmichaud, sjn
08:37 * sjn is looking forward to FOSDEM today :)
08:40 * moritz still no stream :(
08:41 * raydiak notices that live.fosdem.org doesn't believe in DOCTYPEs
08:43 * moritz would like a talk on how time travel interacts with copyright
08:43 bjz joined #perl6
08:43 raydiak hah
08:46 moritz does the stream work for anybody?
08:47 moritz I still get "Error: no streams found"
08:47 jdv79 not in nyc
08:48 raydiak same error here
08:57 TimToady they're just now setting up the camera in the Perl Dev REoom
08:59 jdv79 that doesnt start til 10:30, right?
08:59 atta joined #perl6
08:59 TimToady correct
08:59 TimToady but I vamoosed J so as not to walk out in the middle of a talk
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09:00 adu raydiak: they're not required
09:02 raydiak adu: ?
09:02 adu doctypes
09:03 adu in fact, <html> and <body> aren't really required either
09:03 raydiak oh right, just pretty much universally accepted good practice in the web world
09:04 moritz and pretty relevant when you want to avoid quirks mode in IE
09:04 timotimo can someone please dump the stream to disk so i can get the parts i'm inadvertantly going to miss?
09:04 moritz timotimo: that requires working streams in the first place...
09:05 timotimo because right now i have to get home and take a shower before that - i just tried unsnowing and unicing my car and that was pretty exhausting
09:05 moritz timotimo: but if you tell me some magic command that records them, I'll run them for you
09:05 * raydiak wants to take a look at that command too...
09:06 timotimo btw, moritz++ for really nice work on perl6/doc
09:06 timotimo moritz: something involving rtmpdump
09:06 timotimo i don't really know that well either
09:06 raydiak maybe he means once they start working
09:06 timotimo yes, correct
09:06 timotimo i probably won't be able to ask you for dumps when they start appearing, as i'll be on the road
09:07 timotimo and ircing while driving is frowned upon
09:07 timotimo especially by me when i stand outside my car inspecting the tree that decided to take a *very* close look at my motor
09:12 tgt joined #perl6
09:13 JimmyZ \o
09:13 raydiak o/
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09:18 * raydiak hopes the stuff that isn't streaming is at least making it to disk somewhere over there, besides via audience cameraphones
09:23 vendethiel joined #perl6
09:29 jdv79 i'm beginning to think there's more than a minor stream issue:(
09:30 FROGGS joined #perl6
09:31 timotimo are the cameras set up at all yet?
09:31 raydiak TimToady said they were setting them up half an hour ago in the perl room
09:32 FROGGS timotimo: should be set up now
09:32 yoleaux 04:55Z <raydiak> FROGGS: https://github.com/raydiak/MoarVM/commit/​172048c53389581710bb741dfeff9d1845a85fe7 thoughts?
09:32 yoleaux 04:58Z <raydiak> FROGGS: after that, this seems to work: https://github.com/raydiak/MoarVM/commit/​e53d2cce7e1bcb22fc0588630a44d5db2b77e13c
09:33 timotimo cameras and streaming are hard
09:35 FROGGS are the links for the streaming somewhere?
09:35 JimmyZ Error: no streams found
09:35 moritz FROGGS: http://live.fosdem.org/ but they don't work yet
09:38 vendethiel good morning, #perl6
09:38 rurban_ joined #perl6
09:38 raydiak g'morning vendethiel
09:39 rurban_ no live stream from fosdem?
09:39 FROGGS moritz: hopefully we just need to be patient
09:39 FROGGS it *should* be here: http://live.fosdem.org/watch.php?room=K.3.401
09:39 rurban_ live.fosdem.org
09:39 rurban_ nope, empty. all the others also
09:39 FROGGS ahh :/
09:40 kjs_ joined #perl6
09:40 rurban_ Even the Janson stream is down
09:41 rurban_ At least they have an archive for later
09:41 jdv79 Room UD2.120 (Chavanne) is semi up; kinda
09:41 rurban_ yes
09:49 dalek doc: 4105b6f | moritz++ | lib/Language/functions.pod:
09:49 dalek doc: Explain closures a bit
09:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4105b6f8ab
09:55 JimmyZ http://fos1.ddvtech.com/K3401_a.flv
09:56 spider-mario joined #perl6
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09:57 rurban_ JimmyZ: With which player? vlc and chrome neither does work
09:57 rba_ joined #perl6
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09:59 moritz neither does mplayer
10:00 JimmyZ http://fos1.ddvtech.com/hls/K3401_a/index.m3u8 #it's the right url, but the stream is not there
10:00 JimmyZ :(
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10:01 rurban_ I'm watching the same talk from a conference earlier instead: http://medias.ircam.fr/x520cff (defmacro for C)
10:02 rurban_ but not applicable to us I fear
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10:06 FROGGS something happens! http://live.fosdem.org/watch.php?room=K.3.401
10:06 FROGGS (it is at least different)
10:06 * timotimo disappears
10:07 jdv79 its just failing to load now
10:10 * [ptc] finds it ironic, that it's being streamed by MistServer ;-)
10:10 jdv79 oh sweet - about to miss pmichaud's talk
10:10 rba_ joined #perl6
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10:15 rurban_ I cannot test silverlight
10:15 raydiak tried ie win 7 earlier, still had the no streams error at that time
10:16 * vendethiel 's on windows and still no luck
10:16 vendethiel m: role Foo[::T] { subset ourT of T where True; }
10:16 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: ( no output )
10:17 raydiak well, way past my bedtime...hope the stream comes up, happy fosdemming #perl6
10:17 vendethiel m: role Foo[::T] { subset ourT of T where True; }; my \trueintk = Foo[Int]; my \trueint = trueint::ourT
10:17 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&ourT'␤  in method <anon> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14574␤  in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2741␤  in any find_method at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:988␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/3lczwwPs6N:1␤␤»
10:17 vendethiel m: role Foo[::T] { our subset ourT of T where True; }; my \trueintk = Foo[Int]; my \trueint = trueint::ourT
10:17 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&ourT'␤  in method <anon> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14574␤  in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2741␤  in any find_method at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:988␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/HW2HlMpXBr:1␤␤»
10:17 vendethiel m: role Foo[::T] { our subset ourT of T where True; }; my \trueintk = Foo[Int]; my \trueint = trueint.ourT
10:17 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/JXZE6fOglW�Variable '&trueint' is not declared�at /tmp/JXZE6fOglW:1�------> [32m my \trueintk = Foo[Int]; my \trueint = [33m�[31mtrueint.ourT[0m�»
10:17 vendethiel m: role Foo[::T] { our subset ourT of T where True; }; my \trueintk = Foo[Int]; my \trueint = trueintk.ourT
10:17 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«No such method 'ourT' for invocant of type 'Foo[Int]'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/4fU3erjrSv:1␤␤»
10:18 vendethiel well.
10:20 El_Che do you guys see something on the streaming?
10:20 yoleaux 30 Jan 2015 21:33Z <ab5tract> El_Che: streams!! much excite, many popcorn. thanks for all the hard work!
10:20 vendethiel El_Che: nope
10:20 El_Che damn
10:20 El_Che yoleaux: do you see something?
10:20 vendethiel El_Che: yoleaux's a bot, so probably not :P
10:20 rurban_ I see the slides video now
10:21 rurban_ _b
10:21 El_Che rurban_: no speaker?
10:21 vendethiel rurban_: do you see the slides on http://live.fosdem.org/watch.php?room=K.3.401 ?
10:22 jdv79 nothing
10:22 rurban_ I got rtmp://fos1.ddvtech.com:1935/play/k3401_b working
10:23 rurban_ _a is not connected yet
10:23 * vendethiel doesn't have a rmtp reader
10:23 rurban_ vlc
10:24 jdv79 i see an Inline::Python slide
10:24 El_Che has someone audio?
10:24 jdv79 vlc on that ...b url
10:24 rurban_ rtmmp should be the most efficient protocol
10:24 rurban_ rtmp
10:25 vendethiel rurban_++
10:25 El_Che no audio?
10:25 jdv79 woohoo at least we have something
10:25 rurban_ But stefan's talk is already known
10:25 jdv79 should there be audio on the presentation url?
10:25 rurban_ no
10:25 El_Che there should be video and audio
10:25 El_Che that means the camera does not work
10:25 rurban_ we need the left one, thg _a
10:26 JimmyZ http://fpdownload.adobe.com/strobe/FlashMedi​aPlayback_101.swf?src=rtmp://fos1.ddvtech.co​m:1935/play/k3401_b&amp;streamType=live&amp;​autoPlay=true&amp;playButtonOverlay=false
10:26 jdv79 yeah, i thought ...a would have podium video and audio
10:26 rurban_ hoho! JimmyZ++
10:26 jluis joined #perl6
10:27 El_Che we're looking for the fosdem video people, hopefully they will fix it soon :(
10:28 JimmyZ http://niner.name/talks/Leap​frogging%20the%20bootstrap/ # PPT
10:29 jluis nice talk
10:31 jdv79 no signal now on b
10:31 vendethiel jdv79: probably setting up pmichaud++'s talk ;-)
10:32 FROGGS pmichaud++ will start in about three minutes, he's prepping his laptop
10:32 masak good FOSDEM, #perl6
10:32 FROGGS hi masak
10:32 masak ooh, just in time for pmichaud! :D
10:32 sergot hi masak o/
10:32 [ptc] ah, is that why I get "no signal"?
10:32 FROGGS [ptc]: yeah
10:33 FROGGS looks like there is a delay of a few minutes
10:33 FROGGS so, I see his screen already
10:33 FROGGS JimmyZ: was the audio okay when nine++ had his talk?
10:33 jdv79 nice
10:37 [ptc] hrm, seems like there's no sound...
10:37 kjs_ joined #perl6
10:37 jdv79 just slides here
10:37 moritz nothing here, just a title :(
10:38 El_Che news from the video. Normally everything is recorded and we'll be online soon. The fosdem people are prioritizing the recording and after that they'll try to fix the streaming
10:38 El_Che it's a general problem :(
10:38 El_Che but the talks *should* be recorded
10:38 FROGGS k
10:38 [ptc] El_Che: thanks for the info :-)
10:38 kjs_ joined #perl6
10:38 FROGGS the camera shows that sound is going in btw
10:39 rurban_ good, thanks. they have a good archive. better than ccc
10:40 Woodi_ hallo #perl6 :)
10:41 rurban_ slides are good
10:41 Woodi_ so many talks there... brainstorming organized :)
10:42 _dolmen_ joined #perl6
10:46 masak so pmichaud is on already?
10:46 sergot yes
10:46 JimmyZ yeah
10:49 nine I just uploaded a PDF version of my slides including a transcript of my talk.
10:49 yoleaux 08:15Z <moritz> nine: I've mucked a bit with camelia's service file, avoiding bash -i (it complained about inappropriate ioctl) and added some security features
10:49 masak nine: url?
10:50 JimmyZ masak: it all in the irclog :P
10:50 rurban_ Same talk as this one? http://perltv.org/v/stefan-seifert​---inlineperl5-apw2014-2014-10-10
10:50 nine masak: http://niner.name/talks/Leap​frogging%20the%20bootstrap/
10:50 masak nine++
10:50 masak JimmyZ: a lot of things are in the irclog...
10:50 nine rurban_: an updated and extended version, yes
10:50 rurban_ I see, almost
10:51 JimmyZ http://fpdownload.adobe.com/strobe/FlashMedi​aPlayback_101.swf?src=rtmp://fos1.ddvtech.co​m:1935/play/k3401_b&amp;streamType=live&amp;​autoPlay=true&amp;playButtonOverlay=false # masak
10:51 nige joined #perl6
10:58 rurban_ Classes are never final??? what about use oo :final
10:59 rurban_ that's embarrassing
10:59 jdv79 i was about to ask the same thing
10:59 TimToady he means the class can't declare itself final like in Java
10:59 Kristien joined #perl6
11:00 rurban_ larry said classes could only be finalized by the script, never by a library
11:00 Kristien hi
11:00 rurban_ that's how I'm implementing it
11:00 rurban_ thanks for clarification :)
11:03 nwc10 good UGT heresy, #perl6
11:06 masak nine++ # http://niner.name/talks/Leapfrogging%20the%20​bootstrap/Leapfrogging%20the%20bootstrap.pdf
11:06 masak nine: awesome.
11:06 masak nine: I've never felt more ready to try out Perl 6! :D
11:07 masak JimmyZ: ooh -- I get a picture but no sound.
11:07 vendethiel masak: right, no sound
11:08 [ptc] it's a good talk, even without the sound
11:08 El_Che the devroom video people looking a it
11:12 jdv79 i guess if its impossible to test its impossible to spec now?
11:15 masak jdv79: if it's impossible to test, is it really a feature? :P
11:15 * masak .oO( we bring you this new feature, undetectable by any measurement! )
11:15 rurban it's a plan
11:15 jdv79 i just remember some instances where testing seemed impossible
11:16 espadrine joined #perl6
11:16 jdv79 the one that comes to mind is ref addr re-use in p5
11:16 rurban exhaustive threads or gc tests are also pretty hard to setup
11:16 jdv79 but that's rather trivial to mock.  yeah, concurrency is another area.
11:17 * masak is not at FOSDEM, and so doesn't know exactly what pmichaud is saying, but guesses it's something like "the spectests are the spec"
11:17 FROGGS pmichaud: there is an awesome ruleset about versioning, and I really like it: http://semver.org/
11:18 rurban masak: no, better than perl5
11:18 masak FROGGS: semver seems to be a hit in many communities, including Ruby and node.js
11:18 jdv79 this is the first i'm hearing that the tests are now the spec and not the former "specs" (synopses)
11:18 masak jdv79: pmichaud has been arguing for that shift for a long time.
11:19 FROGGS masak: it describes what I always felt "right", but I often did mistakes because I had no written down rules
11:20 rurban e.g. my perl5 deviates from the perl5 core tests where the tests are too stupid but the specs support that.
11:20 jdv79 if only in here then ok but i don't think i've heard it on a blog or anything like that
11:21 rurban common lisp had the same problem for not-fully conformant implementations for decades, where they didn't implement all. perl6 roast catches this nicely
11:22 rurban a common lisp testsuite came ~10 years after the frozen specs
11:25 psch hi #perl6 \o
11:27 psch FROGGS: i've gotten the portaudio bindings working, but moar is apparently too slow for anything but static dc offsets currently
11:27 psch i suppose NSA will help there
11:28 * masak .oO( must... not... pun... )
11:29 vendethiel masak: everything's testable :P. but better, just encode runtime complexity in types :D
11:30 vendethiel masak, FROGGS: also, I'm sad to see "semver" because that's not "semantics" by any means.
11:30 vendethiel versioning based on API signature would be so much better
11:31 rurban I would go with microsoft. if you change a methods API, change the name
11:35 vendethiel hahaha
11:37 timotimo can i get any stream at all right now?
11:38 vendethiel nine: "trait_mod:<is>(Routine $declarand!" not sure why the ! here?
11:39 El_Che https://fosdem.org/2015/news/2015-01​-31-video-mostly-working/?utm_source​=twitterfeed&amp;utm_medium=twitter
11:44 * [ptc] isn't getting a stream anymore
11:44 [ptc] anyone else seeing this, or is it just me?
11:46 TimToady and to be fair, those of us who have been talking about waterfalls vs whirlpools since before Perl 6 was thought of define "specs" much less rigorously in our heads than the waterfall people do
11:46 jdv79 no streams here
11:46 [ptc] k
11:46 TimToady so it never bothered me to call the design documents that, but I can see how it misleads the waterfallers
11:47 nine vendethiel: did I mention, that I do not actually know much Perl 6? So any thing looking strange to you is probably wrong, even if it works ;)
11:50 moritz nine++ is famous in here for down-playing his knowledge, and yet producing awesome results
11:50 timotimo don't encourage him! :P
11:51 masak yes, please encourage him! :D
11:51 El_Che fosdem guy  thinks the recording is fine, they are still working about the streaming
11:52 alinbsp joined #perl6
11:53 dalek doc: f1e8a72 | paultcochrane++ | WANTED:
11:53 dalek doc: Remove run() and shell() from WANTED
11:53 dalek doc:
11:53 dalek doc: They've already been documented
11:53 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f1e8a723dc
11:56 rurban nine++ is the only reason why I am still working on parrot
11:58 vendethiel nine: I think you did mention it :P
11:59 vendethiel nine++ #in this case: all positional parameters are required by default, so the "!" is implicit. You can use "?" to make them optional (or add a default)
12:00 vendethiel named parameters are the exact opposite, they default to Any, and are not mandatory except when they have said "!"
12:02 nine vendethiel: indeed, everything still works with the ! removed. Thanks for enlightening me :0
12:02 nine :)
12:03 pmurias joined #perl6
12:03 * [Coke] yawns.
12:04 pmurias The truffle ruby talk seems from interesting, as it'a path we might want Perl 6 to take too on the JVM
12:04 rurban yes, the most interesting for me. and the oracle jvm, one
12:05 rurban in the oracle js on jvm they are doing simple dynamic ast rewriting, for type optimizations and pessimizations and method inlining
12:13 nine Is there a way to embed MoarVM yet?
12:14 jnthn nine: Technically, yes, as in we build a shared library and the moar executable is just something that uses it.
12:14 jnthn nine: In terms of "documented API", no.
12:15 jnthn nine: Maybe try it, see what you use, what you miss, etc?
12:15 nine jnthn: sounds like a nice litte project for the flight home tomorrow :)
12:15 jnthn Cool :)
12:15 jnthn nine++
12:15 Kristien m: class A { method !private { 42 }; method f(A $x) { $x.private.say } }; A.new.f(A.new)
12:15 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«No such method 'private' for invocant of type 'A'␤  in method f at /tmp/52_cj4iFh7:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/52_cj4iFh7:1␤␤»
12:15 Kristien hmmm
12:16 nine I guess I will have to write some Inline::Perl6 eventually ;) So I may as well start there...
12:16 jnthn Kristien: $x!private
12:16 nine Did I just say that??
12:16 Kristien m: class A { method !private { 42 }; method f(A $x) { $x!private.say } }; A.new.f(A.new)
12:16 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«42␤»
12:16 Kristien woooooooooooooot
12:17 dalek doc: 9091b20 | paultcochrane++ | / (7 files):
12:17 dalek doc: Add standard vim coda to perl6 source code files
12:17 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9091b20ae2
12:20 pmurias rurban: I think in the Graal project (the thing Truffle is using) they are also exposing lower level support for building your own JIT for your JVM language
12:21 rurban I'm more interested in the dynamic optimizations here: https://fosdem.org/2015/schedule/event/buildi​ng_high_performance_language_implementations/
12:21 rurban for javascript, which is dynamic only (= tracing optims and jits only)
12:22 * pmurias should have gone to FOSDEM
12:22 rurban they simply skipped the bytecode compiler
12:22 * vendethiel would have loved to come have fosdem if time had allowed it..
12:22 rurban and do simple ast interpretation, with trace-based ast rewriting
12:23 pmurias I didn't expect that both a large number of Perl 6 folk are comming and bunch of awesome talks
12:23 vendethiel pmurias: right? so many amazing perl6 talks :-)
12:24 pmurias at some previous YAPC::EU's the perl6 were often less interesting to me as I was familiar with projects they were showing
12:25 jdv79 can we at least get the slide stream back?
12:25 gfldex .o(safety in numvers)
12:25 vendethiel jdv79: I think it's on hold til 2pm
12:28 masak <rurban> nine++ is the only reason why I am still working on parrot
12:28 masak rurban: that sounded interesting -- could you elaborate?
12:28 rurban threads
12:29 * masak thinks the error message about `$x.private` should suggest `$x!private` if the latter exists
12:31 araujo joined #perl6
12:31 araujo joined #perl6
12:35 Woodi_ no streams working here so:  http://pastebin.com/ADt8AACH
12:36 ab5tract joined #perl6
12:38 rmgk_ joined #perl6
12:39 rurban Timely destruction in parrot: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/​0f8993b772b770a2390a0ac2132c48fac7142073 (deprecated)
12:40 rurban Needs 2 sweeps
12:40 masak rurban: the obvious follow-up question: why is it deprecated?
12:41 rurban I was not involved then. Maybe it was too slow
12:41 rurban moar's copying GC needs one pass, m&s 2 passes, timely destruction 3 passes
12:42 rurban so 3x slower than a good GC
12:42 rurban But personally I would make it available as configure option who cannot destruct their objects manually
12:43 [ptc] yay, streams working again!
12:45 moritz rurban: patches to speed it up are welcome
12:45 rurban :)
12:46 moritz rurban: also, from the profiles I've seen so far, GC typically is 8% or lower, very rarely over 15%
12:46 dalek doc: f22629c | paultcochrane++ | / (2 files):
12:46 dalek doc: Remove trailing whitespace in perl6 source code
12:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f22629cc54
12:46 dalek doc: 5a09b38 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Language/ (3 files):
12:46 dalek doc: Remove trailing whitespace (Language)
12:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5a09b3898e
12:46 dalek doc: 3e26190 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Type/ (16 files):
12:46 dalek doc: Remove trailing whitespace (Type)
12:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3e26190ff6
12:46 moritz rurban: in comparison to other numbers I've seen, that's pretty good
12:46 rurban this depends on the heap size. the bigger the slower, i.e. 3x 10ms is no problem, but 3x 250ms per GC is big
12:47 jdv79 streams not working - only the slides
12:47 rurban but maybe finalizing only the 1st generation would work, not the whole heap
12:47 [ptc] jdv79: better than nothing...
12:48 rurban First I need to fixup our gms GC, which is 30% slower than the simple m&s
12:49 rurban Timely destruction for moar would be impossible I fear, with a copying GC. Maybe a 2nd pass with an additional marker bit
12:52 * moritz can't connect to sqlite.org :(
12:52 JimmyZ moritz: works here
12:52 [ptc] moritz: works for me
12:53 moritz oh, somehow ddg gave me https links
12:55 [ptc] is there an automated way to work out which methods/subs etc. still need to be documented?
12:56 moritz [ptc]: no; we only have that for types
12:56 moritz util/missing-types.p6 iirc
12:57 [ptc] ok.  Just thought I'd ask in case I'd missed it
12:57 jdv79 i'm falling asleep - i need the podium av feed
12:57 vendethiel it's interesting that "private" works more like C++'s than java's. can you get a java-like one? (per-instance only)
12:57 moritz [ptc]: well, I guess I should write such a thing
12:58 [ptc] I wish I knew where to start, and how to do it in p6
12:58 [ptc] ah well...
12:58 tadzik for a 60fps game running for 40 seconds gc takes less than 4% of the time
12:58 tadzik (112 runs)
12:58 nige joined #perl6
12:59 rurban what's the gc pause time, with which heap size?
12:59 moritz [ptc]: my approach would be to walk all types (like util/missing-types does), and call http://doc.perl6.org/routine/methods to find the methods
13:00 tadzik the longest pause is 20ms, which sucks indeed
13:00 tadzik (I found a way to workaround)
13:00 rurban 60fps is for 3d, right?
13:00 tadzik (come to my talk :D)
13:00 tadzik nope :)
13:00 rurban 20ms is ok
13:00 tadzik you have 16.6 for a frame
13:00 tadzik surprise 20 sucks
13:00 rurban better than most java gc's
13:00 [ptc] moritz: but that requires net access
13:00 tadzik heh
13:00 moritz [ptc]: no
13:01 moritz [ptc]: I meant I'll call the method documented there
13:01 moritz $type.^methods(:local)
13:01 [ptc] moritz: ach so!
13:01 vendethiel is the stream on again?
13:01 [ptc] vendethiel: yes, but just the slides
13:01 _dolmen_ joined #perl6
13:01 vendethiel ha, the fpdownload link doedsn't seem the work then
13:02 rurban tadzik: then you need a state-preserving m&s gc, "iterative", such as boehm/weiser or ruby
13:02 [ptc] vendethiel: rtmp://fos1.ddvtech.com:1935/play/k3401_b works well with vlc
13:02 tadzik yeah, that'd help immensely
13:02 vendethiel [ptc]: yeah, that's what I did in the end
13:02 rurban we don't have that yet :)
13:05 rurban but a thread-safe GC like Shenandoah would be more important, <10ms
13:07 dalek DBIish: fecfb92 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
13:07 dalek DBIish: SQLite: .exec throws on error. Closes #6
13:07 dalek DBIish:
13:07 dalek DBIish: Patch courtesy by jantz, test by me
13:07 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/fecfb9276b
13:07 colomon [ptc]: what’s on currently?
13:07 [ptc] colomon: ovid's talking about Perl6
13:07 colomon ah, cool
13:07 colomon no audio?
13:08 [ptc] yeah, really wish I had audio.  He does great talks
13:08 pmurias masak: it should mention it for sure, in the future the editor support should offer to either make it public or use the private form
13:12 moritz fwiw I'm doing a mplayer -streamdump of the rtpm stream
13:12 moritz running on hack.p6c.org
13:14 [ptc] hrm, Perl6::TypeGraph.new-from-file chews CPU and RAM in the REPL, but not as a script
13:14 moritz [ptc]: any opion on the closure docs I wrote earlier? is it understable?
13:14 [ptc] moritz: sorry, haven't read them yet
13:14 [ptc] I need to be a bit more organised with how I read the docs
13:15 moritz I tend to just  git log -p  to read the last changes
13:15 sqirrel joined #perl6
13:15 [ptc] I mean in general; I'd like to go through the lot and generally edit things
13:16 [ptc] ... and hopefully learn something along the way
13:16 Kristien joined #perl6
13:16 [ptc] should there be a big difference between REPL behaviour and script behaviour?
13:16 dalek doc: b7934ff | moritz++ | WANTED:
13:16 dalek doc: Remove documented types from WANTED
13:16 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b7934ffc2c
13:17 moritz [ptc]: one common difference is that the REPL tries to stringify everything
13:17 moritz [ptc]: which is a bad idea for inifinite lists, for example
13:17 [ptc] moritz: yup :-)
13:17 [ptc] like in ghc :-)
13:18 [ptc] s/ghc/ghci
13:19 moritz [ptc]: re missing methods, these days when I write about types that weren't previously documented, I try to leave TODO comments for methods I didn't get around to document
13:20 [ptc] moritz: i.e. one can just grep the sources for TODO and slowly remove them?
13:20 telex joined #perl6
13:20 moritz [ptc]: yes. Though it won't be complete.
13:21 [ptc] moritz: does anything depend directly on the p6 files in doc/util?
13:22 [ptc] I'd like to rename them to simply pl to be consistent
13:22 rurban1 joined #perl6
13:22 [ptc] return $to_sender;  # address unknown
13:27 masak Woodi_: with the data that falls out of escape analysis, it could be possible to prove where an object goes out of scope. (because it doesn't escape.)
13:28 masak Woodi_: being able to combine that guarantee with a user trait (and blowing up if it can not be guaranteed) is an interesting idea.
13:29 masak though I don't know if the guarantees made by the escape analysis are always strong enough for the user's needs.
13:33 jdv79 ah, he left the lang comps in.  good show!
13:33 masak that was one of the best parts.
13:33 [ptc] yeah, he makes it all look so _easy_; great talk
13:34 Aaron`J joined #perl6
13:34 KPTN joined #perl6
13:35 moritz [ptc]: iirc they have 6-y file endings so that github recognizes them as Perl 6
13:35 moritz [ptc]: though nothing depends on the exact names
13:35 [ptc] ah, ok
13:35 [ptc] moritz: just wondered, because some use .pl6 and others use .p6
13:36 moritz [ptc]: +1 to unifying them
13:36 [ptc] moritz: which is better?  .pl6 or .p6 (or .pl)?
13:36 moritz [ptc]: I tend to use .p6 nowadays, but it's really a matter of preference
13:37 moritz there is no better
13:37 [ptc] moritz: that's as good a reason as any :-)
13:38 dalek doc: 8a6571f | paultcochrane++ | util/ (4 files):
13:38 dalek doc: Rename perl6 source files to be consistent
13:38 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8a6571f792
13:39 masak clearly the .pl6 ending denotes Prolog 6 source files, and .p6 refers to the protein or the Intel x86 microarchitecture.
13:41 alpha- [ptc] why not .perl6
13:41 moritz alpha-: too much to type
13:41 [ptc] agreed
13:44 masak also, not much prior art from Perl 5, where it's usually `.pl` or nothing at all.
13:44 masak I'm still a big fan of nothing at all, complemented with (say) vim directives.
13:44 skids joined #perl6
13:44 bartolin hmm, I looked around and most of my Perl6 files end in .t  *g*
13:45 masak haha
13:45 masak bartolin++
13:45 skids pm6 even if it isn't a module is my policy.
13:46 masak bartolin: you were the one who made a deal with #perl6, no? for every 5 RT tickets given a test, #perl6 owes you to un-stuck one RT ticket. do we owe you any at this point?
13:48 jfried joined #perl6
13:49 bartolin masak: oh, actually atm I only have a short list of tickets for #perl6. but I'd had to ask RT how many questions I have
13:51 bartolin one ticket from my list is RT #78324
13:51 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=78324
13:51 moritz btw https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/issues/6 as an example for an awesome bug report
13:53 jdv79 could the audio be added to the slide stream?  or will that not be good.
13:53 bartolin jantz++
13:53 moritz bartolin: TimToady++ specced the .narrow method in response to the github discussion
13:54 moritz bartolin: but didn't clarify whether the sequence operator should call it
13:54 moritz so still undecided. I'd argue that the current behavior is correct, so I'd close it (with tests)
13:55 moritz m: say (4/2).^name, (4/2).narrow.^name
13:55 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«RatInt␤»
13:55 bartolin moritz: sounds good to me, thanks!
13:57 bartolin afk for a while (kids want to eat)
13:58 masak bartolin: #78324 looks to me like it could be closed, yes.
13:58 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=78324
14:00 masak moritz++ # response to jantz in https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/issues/6
14:00 dalek doc: e02e0c7 | moritz++ | README.md:
14:00 dalek doc: README: Add another option for contributing
14:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e02e0c733e
14:00 dalek doc: d819b6c | moritz++ | lib/Type/Numeric.pod:
14:00 dalek doc: Improve wording
14:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d819b6c4c4
14:00 dalek doc: cb9fb94 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Numeric.pod:
14:00 dalek doc: Document Numeric.narrow
14:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cb9fb94f98
14:01 moritz m: say join ' ', (512, 256, 128 ... { .narrow ~~ Int })
14:01 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«512␤»
14:01 moritz m: say join ' ', (512, 256, 128 ... { .narrow ~~ Rat })
14:01 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«512 256 128 64 32 16 8 4 2 1 0.5␤»
14:02 moritz m: say join ' ', (512, 256, 128 ...^ { .narrow !~~ Int })
14:02 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«512 256 128 64 32 16 8 4 2 1␤»
14:02 moritz m: say join ' ', (512, 256, 128 ...^ *.narrow !~~ Int)
14:02 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«␤»
14:02 moritz m: say join ' ', (512, 256, 128 ...^ *.narrow.^isa(Int))
14:02 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«␤»
14:02 moritz m: say join ' ', (512, 256, 128 ...^ *.narrow.isa(Int))
14:02 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«␤»
14:05 salv00 joined #perl6
14:06 moritz m: say(nqp::typeof(Int))
14:06 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No registered operation handler for 'typeof'␤»
14:07 vendethiel "foo:U" probably accidental smiley :P
14:07 salv0 joined #perl6
14:07 TimToady foo:D probably intentional smiley
14:07 * moritz has been calling :D and :U "type smileys" for quite some time
14:07 * vendethiel as well because of the advent posts :P
14:08 _dolmen_ joined #perl6
14:12 * vendethiel woud be interested in a real 5.22 changelog to see what's actually going on, without sound
14:12 moritz jnthn: RT #123696 (6;) throwing an error from the optimizer is because there's an NQPMu in a QAST::Stmts. Is that wrong? or should the optimizer be able to handle that?
14:12 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=123696
14:13 moritz ah, seems it shouldn't happen in the first place
14:13 pecastro joined #perl6
14:13 masak "type smiley". I like it.
14:13 moritz then my attempts to patch the optimizer are misguided
14:17 * vendethiel kinda wonders what ->@* does, but mostly wonders how to google it
14:17 * vendethiel now knows.. :)
14:17 moritz @{ ... }
14:17 vendethiel it was the next lide... I'm a bad pardon :P
14:17 vendethiel person*. sorry. ugh
14:18 * masak .oO( I beg your person!? )
14:18 * moritz finds ->@* quite ugly
14:18 vendethiel masak: which one of those? there are of lot in my head..
14:18 moritz but iirc ->@ was ambiguous in some cases
14:18 masak vendethiel: :)
14:21 vendethiel seems like the slide is missing some changes in the "say" line
14:22 moritz http://www.amazon.com/Set-This-Ho​use-Order-Romance/dp/006095485X/ speaking of multiple persons in your head...
14:23 esaym153 joined #perl6
14:23 moritz the other stuff that I've read from Matt Ruff is quite awesome as well
14:25 moritz I liked "Sewer, Gas & Electric: The Public Works Trilogy". It's very crazy and yet believable fantasy or science fiction, depending on how you look at it
14:35 [ptc] m: say Numeric.^methods(:local);
14:35 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«log log10 exp roots succ pred sleep␤»
14:35 [ptc] a Numeric can sleep??
14:36 moritz m: my $before = now; 2.sleep; say now - $before
14:36 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«2.00542901␤»
14:36 colomon Hmmm… a Real sleeping makes sense
14:36 colomon m: my $before = now; 2i.sleep; say now - $before
14:36 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Real'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in sub infix:<>> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5195␤  in sub infix:<>> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5195␤  in sub sleep at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:18779␤  in method sleep at src/gen/m-…»
14:36 moritz yes, shouldn't be in Numeric
14:36 JimmyZ m: my $before = now; 2.53.sleep; say now - $before
14:36 moritz (and IMHO there's no point in it being a method at all; it's not like the number sleeps; the process or thread does)
14:37 camelia rakudo-moar 7fd2f6: OUTPUT«2.5363512␤»
14:41 ivan`` joined #perl6
14:51 masak +1
14:51 masak feels too much like 5.times of Ruby (in)fame
14:51 El_Che devoom has been pretty packed. Good to see good attendance on perl6 talks
14:51 moritz two test files you .sleep
14:51 masak which thinking error we tend to avoid
14:51 masak El_Che: whoz op next?
14:52 masak El_Che: heh -- maybe we should do this every year; announce that on this FOSDEM Perl 6 will finally be ready to party :P
14:52 vendethiel moritz: agreed! :-) that's not related to numeric anyhow
14:52 El_Che masak: tadzik is now on perl6 speed
14:52 jdv79 sched says stevan
14:53 El_Che then stevan, then mst, then jnthn
14:53 jdv79 hope stream for tomorrow
14:53 masak yeah
14:53 El_Che masak: I would love to see fosdem be a place where 5 and 6 can be one community
14:53 El_Che ovid talk about perl6 was really packed
14:54 retupmoca Does something like this even make sense: https://github.com/retupmoca/rakudo/commit​/d2eba029e90d89b48085b800118251deb578f43b ?
14:54 yoleaux 03:32Z <japhb> retupmoca: I added an nqp test file for locks, you should be able to find it in t/concurrency.
14:54 masak El_Che: to a very large extent, 5 and 6 are one community, always. much more than, say, C and C++.
14:55 El_Che masak: true, but there has been some bad blook
14:55 retupmoca it seems to work, but I don't know what consequences it may have
14:55 El_Che blood
14:55 masak El_Che: during this FOSDEM?
14:55 El_Che no
14:55 masak oh, good.
14:55 dalek rakudo/nom: ffbb70c | moritz++ | src/core/ (2 files):
14:55 dalek rakudo/nom: Move method sleep from Numeric to Real; deprecate it in favor of the subroutine form
14:55 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ffbb70c9ae
14:55 El_Che in the blogsphere a long time ago :)
14:56 masak some bad blood is natural. Perl 6 has a fairly ambitious agenda, part of which is to transcend Perl 5 :)
14:56 El_Che I don't have the feeling we have perl5 and 6 talks. All the talks are interesting on their own
14:56 masak and Perl 5 has the (true) claim of being the dominant Perl out there, used in production and stable and whatnot.
14:57 masak El_Che: Su-Shee on twitter expressed dismay at there being too many Perl 6 talks at FOSDEM and too few Perl 5 talks.
14:58 El_Che let me count
14:58 masak :)
14:58 El_Che we have 6 perl 5 talks
14:58 JimmyZ 6 vs 5
14:58 El_Che we have 4 perl 6 talks
14:59 JimmyZ really?
14:59 masak El_Che: that's an outrage! how dare those Perl 6 people!
14:59 El_Che and one perl 6 talk (not in the count) about using perl5 libs in perl6
14:59 El_Che so 6-5 is pretty balanced in my view :)
14:59 masak I'm relieved it's not more Perl 6 talks than Perl 5 talks.
15:00 El_Che it could have been
15:00 espadrine joined #perl6
15:00 El_Che we didn't really count
15:01 masak I'm glad we still mix them up in the same namespace, room, and track. aslong as we keep doing that, we should be fine.
15:02 El_Che masak: If I recard correctly someone promised a flying car at fosdem not so long ago ;)
15:02 pmichaud bon aprés midi, #perl6
15:03 El_Che pmichaud: great talk
15:03 masak El_Che: actually, that was in Bristol.
15:03 masak pmichaud! \o/
15:03 [ptc] pmichaud++
15:03 masak pmichaud: I missed your talk because no streaming :/ but the chatter on the channel was interesting. :)
15:03 El_Che masak: https://archive.fosdem.org/2013/schedule​/event/perl6__dude_wheres_my_flying_car/
15:03 pmichaud El_Che: merci!
15:03 jdv79 yeah, at least we got to see the slides live
15:03 masak El_Che: I stand corrected.
15:03 * pmichaud reads scrollback
15:05 KPTN joined #perl6
15:16 ivan`` joined #perl6
15:16 dalek doc: c72ac66 | paultcochrane++ | bin/p6doc:
15:16 dalek doc: Indenting p6doc code consistently
15:16 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c72ac66a32
15:16 pmichaud masak: I'm glad to have provided interesting channel chatter
15:18 pmichaud And yes, I really like the mix of P5 and P6 talks here.  The dev room attendance has been good all day... with some talks over-filling the room
15:18 pmichaud I was (pleasantly) surprised at the number of people who came to my talk :)
15:19 oetiker joined #perl6
15:20 dalek doc: 5eef209 | paultcochrane++ | bin/p6doc:
15:20 dalek doc: Wrap long p6doc error message output
15:20 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5eef209a73
15:23 sqirrel joined #perl6
15:24 pmurias was the "big" announcement made?
15:25 FROGGS joined #perl6
15:25 tadzik that's tomorrow
15:32 jdv79 i guess this is p5-mop rebranded
15:34 pmurias jdv79: ?
15:34 tadzik the current talk
15:34 jdv79 the current live sideshow
15:34 pmichaud standing room only at stevan's talk
15:35 jdv79 *slideshow
15:36 tadzik pmichaud: actually, Dancer2 was even more crowded, from about half-time
15:36 masak you'd almost thing this language weren't dead after all
15:36 masak think*
15:36 tadzik Peculiar
15:39 Kristien When I hear or read that word I always think of pickles
15:39 Kristien Pickelar
15:40 ugexe is there a way to use an NQP module in a perl6 script? specifically i am trying to generate AST from p6 code and was wondering if i could use Perl6::Compiler.parse instead of `perl6 --target=parse some-file.pl6`
15:40 masak ugexe: if you figure that one out, let me know.
15:41 ugexe i was hoping to take it to my grave
15:42 masak dang.
15:45 * [ptc] loves how perl6 tells you when you use perl5 and how to fix it
15:46 masak yeah. I miss that in Python 3.
15:48 [ptc] yeah, like don't use '"%s" % blah'; use '"{blah}".format(blah=blah)'
15:49 * [ptc] isn't yet a fan of the new string format syntax in Python
15:49 arnsholt ugexe: Should be possible using nqp::ops I think
15:49 masak [ptc]: though .format is highly endorsed, the % form is not (yet?) deprecated.
15:50 [ptc] masak: I know, but they keep saying to convert code to .format *just in case* they remove it in the future
15:50 [ptc] I'm sure I'm missing something about how good it is...
15:51 [ptc] in my day job I wish I could just do "some string with a $variable" and it interpolates
15:51 [ptc] I know it's technically possible in Python, but it's not "pythonic"
15:51 raiph joined #perl6
15:52 arnsholt ugexe: nqp::getcomp('perl6') should get you a Perl6::Compiler instance
15:52 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
15:53 arnsholt And from that you should be able to get a QAST tree
15:54 ugexe arnsholt++
15:57 tadzik but is that data structure Perl6-readable? :o
15:57 tadzik this changes everything :o
15:58 arnsholt ugexe: From some more reading, I suspect what you want is "nqp::getcomp('perl6').compile($code, :target<ast>)"
15:59 arnsholt tadzik: Well, it's NQP objects, so you proably have to be careful with what you do with 'em, but you have all the ops at hand
15:59 arnsholt So anything should be possible, given enough elbow grease =)
16:00 anaeem1 joined #perl6
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16:01 vendethiel any more p6 talk for today? (probably not)
16:04 skids last one today is "Perl 6: beyond dynamic vs. static"
16:05 vendethiel ooh :)
16:05 arnsholt Sounds like a jnthn-talk?
16:05 sqirrel joined #perl6
16:06 tadzik yeah
16:06 tadzik coming up in 10 minutes :)
16:06 TimToady mst first?
16:07 tadzik hmm, possibly
16:07 tadzik indeed
16:07 tadzik in 55 minutes then :)
16:16 colomon Are we still getting just slides in the feed?  Still probably worth watching, jnthn++’s slides are usually pretty exciting.  :)
16:18 leedo Dear Manager,
16:18 leedo We could make pump valve bodies&accessories, impellers for you, on premium quality and competitive price.
16:18 leedo o ty
16:18 colomon (actually, what is the feed for the room jnthn is in?  I’m watching the one I was watching earlier, but I’d be shocked if this is mst’s talk)
16:19 tadzik mst is in the same room as jnthn will be speaking in
16:19 leedo whoops, wrong channel. sorry
16:24 esaym153 joined #perl6
16:26 brrt joined #perl6
16:34 * vendethiel gets his attention drawn by the "haskell"
16:35 torbjorn joined #perl6
16:36 brrt perl, y u have no video stream
16:36 tadzik don't worry, if it had one it'd be mute :)
16:36 tadzik they say at least the recording is right
16:37 colomon tadzik: I’m sorry I missed watching your slides.  :)
16:37 vendethiel oooh, thanks for the note tadzik
16:37 tadzik colomon: oh, no worries, smaller audience is less stressful :P
16:37 * vendethiel 's wearing his perl workshop shirt today, to support the fosdem perl room :P
16:38 coffee` joined #perl6
16:38 brrt well.. i'm going to wear my camelia button
16:40 anaeem1 joined #perl6
16:41 colomon Maybe I’ll finally get around to hanging my Camel who wants to be a butterfly poster today.
16:45 * colomon thinks mst’s talk is really weird when you just glance at the slide every now and then.  “ruby: MooseX”  “make”  “I HATE TABS”
16:45 colomon the latter clearly shows it is mst’s presentation
16:46 liztormato joined #perl6
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16:51 tadzik the apparent lack of shouting and swearing makes me wonder if it's an impostor
16:52 El_Che hehehe
16:53 colomon tadzik: I just assumed he was shouting and swearing.  the advantages of having no audio feed.  ;)
16:54 tadzik how is that an advantage? :D
16:55 colomon I imagined he sounded like himself.
16:55 btyler joined #perl6
16:59 Kristien joined #perl6
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17:02 vendethiel when is jnthn++'s talk?
17:02 jdv79 next
17:02 TimToady 3 minutes
17:02 Kristien will it be livestreamed?
17:03 tadzik sort of, at least recorded
17:04 * colomon is trying to decide if he can make noms and watch jnthn’s slides at the same time.
17:04 tadzik argh, I envy you
17:04 colomon no signal!  that means mst is finished....
17:04 tadzik fosdem does not have food breaks of any sort
17:04 tadzik stevan's slide with spaghetti, nnnngh
17:05 dalek doc: 453591e | paultcochrane++ | util/missing-methods.p6:
17:05 dalek doc: Add a first cut at a program to find undocumented methods
17:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/453591e3ae
17:05 TimToady looked pretty poisonous to me
17:05 colomon if it makes you feel any better, I’m thinking watching and cooking at the same time might be a stretch
17:05 colomon would be easier if I could hear him talk
17:06 colomon woo-hoo!
17:06 jdv79 woohoo wha t?
17:06 colomon tadzik: how about you transcribe the important bits of what jnthn is saying here, and I’ll describe the nom creation process to you.  ;)
17:07 Kristien I wrote a web app in Eiffel. :v
17:07 Kristien I should attempt writing one in Perl 6.
17:07 cdc joined #perl6
17:07 tadzik that's quite easy:)
17:08 Kristien CGI to the rescue!
17:08 tadzik oh no, we have proper psgi and stuff :)
17:09 El_Che jnthn is on!
17:09 colomon jdv79: jnthn’s talk just started
17:09 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/bailador is one way to go
17:09 jdv79 oh
17:09 tadzik (shameless self-ad)
17:09 Kristien Meh, globals.
17:10 anaeem1 joined #perl6
17:10 tadzik there's https://github.com/coke/mojo6 too, but I don't know how it works
17:11 dalek doc: 7212348 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Type/List.pod:
17:11 dalek doc: Document List.Numeric()
17:11 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/721234837e
17:12 [ptc] hrm, the C# code wouldn't compile
17:12 [ptc] duh, that's the point ptc...
17:14 jdv79 hope the talk improves
17:20 * colomon has chopped up green onions, and is starting in on the tofu
17:22 [ptc] slide streaming just disappeared...
17:24 skids here too.
17:24 jdv79 unbelievable
17:24 colomon hmmm, I’ve still got something up, but it’s been on the same screen for a while
17:26 jdv79 yeah, its just froze on lat frame recvd
17:26 jdv79 *last
17:27 kjs_ joined #perl6
17:31 colomon tadzik: what’s happening there?  The stream here has frozen.  Also, the Sichuan peppercorns are toasted and the chicken is frying.
17:32 * [ptc] starts to get hungry
17:33 BenGoldberg Can I haz fried chicken?
17:33 colomon BenGoldberg: stir-frying, really
17:34 BenGoldberg As long as it sizzles while cooking, it's all good.
17:34 tadzik colomon: well, jnthn is talking, no interruptions
17:34 tadzik so, I don't know
17:35 colomon what’s he talking about now?  I wasn’t worried about the why, I’m just missing the talk.
17:35 tadzik ah, :) Roles
17:36 tadzik and how nice that you get method collision error in compiletime
17:38 colomon tadzik: nothing mind blowing yet?
17:38 tadzik no secret project announcements:)
17:38 jdv79 it'll be at the end
17:38 tadzik usually is
17:39 tadzik but looking at the talk subject, I'm clueless as to what it might be :)
17:40 [ptc] afk
17:40 timotimo "oops i accidentally implemented a tracing jit for you in secret on the plane ride to fosdem"
17:44 masak that is so jnthn
17:44 masak always so careless! :P
17:44 araujo joined #perl6
17:44 colomon timotimo: actual quote or just your imagination?
17:45 vendethiel are jnthn's slides available somewhere? my current internet does not allow me to watch the stream :(
17:45 colomon vendethiel: stream is not working anyway
17:45 jdv79 nobody can
17:45 tadzik vendethiel: I'm pretty sure he'll publish them later
17:49 Mso150 joined #perl6
17:51 Kristien joined #perl6
17:52 tadzik OO::Monitors is shown
17:52 colomon joined #perl6
17:52 tadzik but that existed before :)
17:54 colomon WAT?!?!!!!
17:54 Kristien > Error: no streams found
17:54 Kristien :9
17:54 tadzik https://github.com/jnthn/oo-monitors/
17:54 jdv79 what happened?
17:55 TimToady he's just using it as another example of the same thing
17:55 TimToady and he was sick last week
17:55 tadzik he just announced Half-Life 3
17:56 tadzik (j/k)
17:58 rurban joined #perl6
17:58 tadzik well, I'm packing to minimize the time from now to food :)
18:02 * colomon in nomming
18:02 colomon *is
18:03 konsolebox joined #perl6
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18:06 dj_goku so if I wanted to interface using nativecall to a c library. How much work is that going to take? I have kind of forgotten C and only know a little Perl6. :D
18:07 jdv79 nine's talk had a bit on it
18:08 colomon joined #perl6
18:09 arnsholt dj_goku: Depends primarily on how large and complex the C library is
18:09 arnsholt Also if it hits any of the rough spots in NativeCall
18:10 dj_goku arnsholt: cool. I am thinking of making a Perl 6 gearman client.
18:10 dj_goku I don't know gearman that well so I am thinking a client would help me learn.
18:11 jeckyhl joined #perl6
18:17 colomon dj_goku: see for example https://github.com/avuserow/perl6-audio-taglib​-simple/blob/master/lib/Audio/Taglib/Simple.pm
18:20 jeckyhl hi, i don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I have trouble running perl6 in cmd.exe on Windows. I have a french Keyboard and to type the backslash character for example I must type ALTGR+8. But when I do this in a perl6 prompt nothing happends. Strangely others ALTGR combinations works, for example typing ALTGR+2+SPACE gives the exected result (displaying '~'). Did someone already experienced this problem ? Is there any w
18:21 jeckyhl I'm using the last develop version of rakudo on MoarVM (version 2015.01-50-gffbb70c / MoarVM version 2015.01-5-ga29eaa9). Thanks for helping
18:21 masak jeckyhl: first time I've heard about it.
18:21 vendethiel is the stream working?
18:22 masak would be interesting if some other Windows user with (the ability to switch to) a French layout could try to reproduce this.
18:22 vendethiel I've reported the same issue several times
18:22 vendethiel I'm on windows with a french keyboard as well :). I've been told to change the console to UTF-8, and it still errors out the same
18:22 gr33n7007h joined #perl6
18:22 jeckyhl @vendethiel apart for the ALTGR combination problem everything seems OK
18:22 vendethiel also, whenever I try to input utf-8, it errors with "bad utf8 sequence"
18:22 vendethiel jeckyhl, same here
18:23 konsolebox joined #perl6
18:23 masak that sounds like a genuine issue to me.
18:23 mr-foobar joined #perl6
18:23 masak please submit a rakudobug.
18:24 jeckyhl @masak I will
18:24 Mso150_z joined #perl6
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18:27 vendethiel no more streams, still? ha!
18:27 jeckyhl @vendethiel just for the record typing   > say "é"   in a perl6 prompt result in error "Malformed UFT-8". Switching code page to UTF-8 (chcp 65001)  doesn't helps
18:27 vendethiel jeckyhl: yes, did the same, and I'm in the same situation :)
18:28 * vendethiel just writes perl6 to a file nowadays, when he must windows
18:29 colomon joined #perl6
18:30 colomon jeckyhl: this is totally the right place to ask, but it’s possible everyone who has a clue about it at the moment is elsewhere.  (I know I don’t, alas.)
18:33 kurahaupo1 joined #perl6
18:33 jeckyhl @colomon thanks for replying. Seems a complicated issue. Maybe I will ask again later. I think I'm gonna fill a rakudo bug as suggester by @masak.  Keep up the good work! Bye
18:34 masak jeckyhl: rakudobug@perl.org
18:34 jeckyhl left #perl6
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18:41 dalek roast: 228b501 | (David Warring david.warring@gmail.com)++ | integration/advent2011-day23.t:
18:41 dalek roast: [advent2011-day23.t] .uniq => .unique
18:41 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/228b501694
18:43 neybar joined #perl6
18:44 neybar so what is the best version of perl 6 to play around with?
18:44 colomon neybar: rakudo-moar
18:45 colomon unless you’re specifically interested in wokring with the JVM
18:51 neybar Mostly just want to start learning.
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19:28 pmurias what command line option should I use for nqp-js to beautify outputed code?
19:34 dalek doc: e4c6d6a | paultcochrane++ | util/missing-methods.p6:
19:34 dalek doc: Extract undocumented method display code into its own routine
19:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e4c6d6ab35
19:34 dalek doc: 9a293e4 | paultcochrane++ | util/missing-methods.p6:
19:34 dalek doc: Extract code finding methods in type into its own routine
19:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9a293e4a56
19:34 dalek doc: 9892b92 | paultcochrane++ | util/missing-methods.p6:
19:34 dalek doc: Replace temporary variable in sub call
19:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9892b92fc2
19:34 dalek doc: facb3fb | paultcochrane++ | util/missing-methods.p6:
19:34 dalek doc: Rename subroutine in missing-methods.p6
19:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/facb3fbff3
19:34 dalek doc: 1e3b216 | paultcochrane++ | util/missing-methods.p6:
19:34 dalek doc: Rename variable for clarity
19:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1e3b216d6d
19:34 dalek doc: 7eaf0aa | paultcochrane++ | util/missing-methods.p6:
19:34 dalek doc: Handling optional type name arg in missing-methods
19:34 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7eaf0aa076
19:35 pmurias perl6: my $c = nqp::getcomp('perl6'); $c.compile(:target<ast>, '1')
19:35 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤compunitmainline requires an MVMCompUnit␤»
19:35 camelia ..rakudo-parrot ffbb70: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding $expected; expected 'Any' but got 'Mu'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
19:38 zakharyas joined #perl6
19:40 Kristien pmurias: --beautify
19:40 Kristien or make it the default
19:42 arnsholt pmurias: Hmm. Then compile is probably the wrong entry point
19:44 kjs_ joined #perl6
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19:49 Mso150_z_t joined #perl6
19:54 neybar ok, so I grabbed rakudo source, and I see that I can pass in Configure.pl --gen-moar --gen-parrot and other fun stuff.  Assuming I were to compile more that one backend, how would I got about specifying which backend to use?
19:55 vendethiel neybar: perl6-m, perl6-p and perl6-j are the 3 binaries you (might) get
19:55 psch neybar: ALL compiles all backends, otherwise the first one is installed as 'perl6'
19:55 vendethiel the default "perl6" is aliased to the first one
19:55 vendethiel psch: oh, there's a --gen-ALL ?
19:55 psch vendethiel: --backends=ALL
19:55 vendethiel or do you mean backends=ALL
19:55 vendethiel right
19:56 psch vendethiel: afair, --backends gets you --gen-*, at least for moar?
19:56 dalek nqp-js: 25406a8 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
19:56 dalek nqp-js: Emit code that parses when NYI ops are used as expressions.
19:56 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias​/nqp-js/commit/25406a8786
19:56 dalek nqp-js: d7366e5 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/nqp-runtime/runtime.js:
19:56 dalek nqp-js: Make empty hashes false, none-empty ones true.
19:56 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias​/nqp-js/commit/d7366e595c
19:56 dalek nqp-js: d84972e | (Pawel Murias)++ | t/nqp/18-associative.t:
19:56 dalek nqp-js: Test boolification of hashes.
19:56 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias​/nqp-js/commit/d84972e7f4
19:56 psch ah, no, it doesn't
19:57 psch that'd be a bit silly anyway, thinking about it :)
19:57 raydiak hope not, otherwise you couldn't build rakudo on eg a dev fork of moar :)
19:57 psch neybar: you might want to check out rakudobrew at https://github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew
19:58 psch heh, --backends=* wasn't actually implemented it seems :)
19:59 neybar thanks.  I was looking at the osx brew formula, but it is out-dated and doesn't expose moar as an option.
19:59 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
20:00 raydiak '*' would mess with people who don't know how their shell handles that
20:02 vendethiel :D
20:03 Kristien how about --backends=⁂
20:03 pmurias nqp-m: role R {method foo() {say("foo")}}; class C does R {}; C.new.foo()
20:03 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Null, cs = 0)␤   at /tmp/f7eGOYdlej:1  (<ephemeral file>:foo:8)␤ from /tmp/f7eGOYdlej:1  (<ephemeral file>:<mainline>:39)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1244  (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/lang​uages/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:eva…»
20:03 pmurias isn't that a bug?
20:04 vendethiel pmurias: it is :P
20:04 vendethiel I think so, when it says "null"
20:04 pmurias nqp-m: role R {method foo() {nqp::say("foo")}}; class C does R {}; C.new.foo()
20:04 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«foo␤»
20:05 psch bare say has REPR: Null
20:05 pmurias nqp-m: role R {method foo() {nqp::say("foo")}}; class C does R {}; C.new.foo(); 1
20:05 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«foo␤»
20:05 pmurias nqp-m: role R {method foo() {say("foo")}}; class C does R {}; C.new.foo(); 1
20:05 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Null, cs = 0)␤   at /tmp/b6OyBeKNB7:1  (<ephemeral file>:foo:8)␤ from /tmp/b6OyBeKNB7:1  (<ephemeral file>:<mainline>:39)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1244  (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/lang​uages/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:eva…»
20:05 psch nqp-m: say("a")
20:05 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«a␤»
20:05 psch oh, nvm
20:06 * psch goes back to being wrong in silence :s
20:09 psch pmurias: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/155
20:09 psch might be that issue actually
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20:33 kgoess it looks like p6 shebang lines don't work on OS X, I assume that's a known issue?
20:33 kgoess http://stackoverflow.com/questions/998​8125/shebang-pointing-to-script-also-h​aving-shebang-is-effectively-ignored q.v.
20:34 geekosaur yes, known
20:34 kgoess easy workaround?
20:34 raydiak #!/usr/bin/env perl6 might fix it
20:34 geekosaur (it's actually more correct to say that having it chain is the unusual one, since Linux supports it and FreeBSD has a hack to handle depth-2 nesting)
20:34 rurban joined #perl6
20:35 geekosaur (but nothing else really does, and the original didn't do chaining at all IIRC)
20:35 geekosaur rather, behaved like you're seeing on OS X, which is using a variant of the original 4.2BSD #! implementation
20:36 kgoess indeed it does fix it, is there a build option to fix the scripts in install/bin/, e.g. p6doc, or should I just fix them myself?
20:38 raydiak no build option I know of
20:39 psch opening an issue (or PR) on repos that don't use env is probably the way to go
20:40 psch we can't really fix wrong handling of shebangs
20:41 psch for our value of wrong :)
20:41 kgoess no, but we could build the install/bin/ scripts as compiled C instead of shell scripts
20:42 psch binary target for moar is in the works iirc
20:42 psch https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/330
20:43 raiph joined #perl6
20:43 kgoess oh, right on, cool
20:43 psch just hasn't made it to nom yet.  i haven't really looked at it, jnthn++ or FROGGS++ might know more
20:43 gr33n7007h will sudo apt-get install rakudo perl6?
20:44 psch gr33n7007h: probably, but it'll be severly out of date.  try rakudobrew ( https://github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew ) instead
20:44 gr33n7007h hey thanks psch
20:53 kjs_ joined #perl6
20:54 timotimo o/
21:07 raydiak \o timo
21:10 anaeem1 joined #perl6
21:16 psch o/ timotimo
21:17 jschulz joined #perl6
21:24 moritz timotimo: I have a stream dump for you
21:25 moritz timotimo: on hack.p6c.org in ~moritz/stream.dump
21:25 moritz timotimo: 5.7GB. I haven't looked at it, so no idea if it's any good
21:34 telex joined #perl6
21:41 FROGGS joined #perl6
21:41 timotimo ooooh!
21:41 timotimo thank you so much :)
21:41 timotimo there was actually something to watch?
21:42 Util joined #perl6
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21:46 Peter_R Is it going to take a long time for the FOSDEM guys to upload recordings?
21:47 Peter_R The dates on previous years' stuff don't fill me with encouragement
21:50 sergot Perl devroom was full of p6 talks at Fosdem, I like it! :)
21:52 bartolin joined #perl6
21:56 FROGGS .tell raydiak have you seen https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/173 and https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/pull/55?
21:56 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to raydiak.
21:56 FROGGS Peter_R: we all hope for the best :/
22:02 vendethiel https://twitter.com/steveklab​nik/status/561520560744960000 is that about our larry? :P probably not
22:02 vendethiel seems to be, actually
22:03 vendethiel https://twitter.com/steveklab​nik/status/561507920534568960 guy's a pretty well-known rubyist and rust-"ist", nowadays
22:03 Kristien Well, Perl is one of the few popular dynamically-typed languages that aren't horrible at scoping.
22:04 vendethiel this is so sad but true.
22:05 labster joined #perl6
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22:10 Kristien I googled "eiffel reflection" and I get pictures of the Eiffel Tower reflecting in a lake :v
22:10 Kristien Googling "man pipe" is also funny
22:13 rba_ joined #perl6
22:16 raydiak FROGGS: *gasp* no!  awesome! :)
22:16 yoleaux 21:56Z <FROGGS> raydiak: have you seen https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/173 and https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/pull/55?
22:18 raydiak retupmoca++
22:19 andreoss joined #perl6
22:27 raydiak that'll be nice, because I was setting elements one at a time as a test, CArray is 3-4 times slower than Array, which is just a hair slower than Buf
22:29 [Sno] joined #perl6
22:32 raydiak iow Array and Buf are close to the same, and CArray is much slower (to disambiguate the grammar in my last statement)
22:39 Kristien What guarantees are there when multiple threads read/write the same variable?
22:42 vendethiel m: my @a; await do for ^10 { start { rand.sleep; @a.push($_); } }; say @a
22:42 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«1 0 5 3 9 8 6 7 4 2␤»
22:42 vendethiel m: my @a; await do for ^100 { start { @a.push($_); } }; say @a
22:42 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 656 bytes␤»
22:42 vendethiel m: my @a; await do for ^20 { start { @a.push($_); } }; say @a
22:42 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 656 bytes␤»
22:42 Kristien is there implicit synchronisation?
22:42 vendethiel should be
22:42 vendethiel iirc, at least
22:43 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^100 { start { @a.push: $_; say "$_ -> @a[*-1]" } }; say @a
22:43 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«0 -> 3␤2 -> 3␤1 -> 3␤3 -> 3␤4 -> 4␤5 -> 5␤6 -> 6␤8 -> 8␤7 -> 8␤9 -> 10␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 656 bytes␤»
22:44 vendethiel I think jnthn++ wrote something about that on his blog
22:44 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^100 { start { @a[$_] = $_ } }; say @a
22:44 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 656 bytes␤»
22:44 sergot m: False andthen say 1;
22:44 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«1␤»
22:44 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^10 { start { @a[$_] = $_ } }; say @a
22:44 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«0 (Any) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤»
22:44 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^30 { start { @a[$_] = $_ } }; say @a
22:44 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 656 bytes␤»
22:45 skids I think the answer right now is "don't do that" and to use on { } to sequentialize.
22:45 skids Yes, jnthn talked a bit about how this devolves into a mess to implement anything past some really basic protections.
22:45 * raydiak just got a double-free/corruption error locally...
22:47 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^100 { start { @a.push: $_; say "$_ -> @a[*-1]" } }; say @a
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«1 -> 3␤3 -> 3␤2 -> 3␤0 -> 3␤4 -> 4␤5 -> 5␤6 -> 6␤8 -> 8␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 656 bytes␤7 -> 8␤»
22:47 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^100 { start { @a.push: $_; say "$_ -> @a[*-1]" } }; say @a
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«2 -> 3␤0 -> 3␤1 -> 3␤3 -> 3␤4 -> 4␤5 -> 5␤6 -> 7␤8 -> 8␤7 -> 8␤9 -> 10␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 656 bytes␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 4194304 bytes␤»
22:47 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^15 { start { @a.push: $_; say "$_ -> @a[*-1]" } }; say @a
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«3 -> 4␤0 -> 3␤1 -> 3␤2 -> 3␤4 -> 4␤5 -> 5␤6 -> 7␤8 -> 8␤7 -> 8␤Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 656 bytes␤»
22:47 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^10 { start { @a.push: $_; say "$_ -> @a[*-1]" } }; say @a
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«3 -> 3␤0 -> 3␤1 -> 3␤2 -> 3␤4 -> 4␤5 -> 5␤6 -> 6␤8 -> 8␤7 -> 8␤9 -> 9␤0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤»
22:47 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^10 { start { @a.push: $_; say "$_ -> @a[*-1]" } }; say @a
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«1 -> 3␤2 -> 3␤0 -> 3␤3 -> 4␤4 -> 4␤5 -> 5␤6 -> 6␤7 -> 7␤8 -> 8␤9 -> 9␤0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤»
22:47 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^10 { start { @a.push: $_; say "$_ -> @a[*-1]" } }; say @a
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«2 -> 3␤1 -> 3␤3 -> 4␤0 -> 3␤4 -> 4␤5 -> 5␤6 -> 6␤7 -> 8␤8 -> 8␤9 -> 9␤0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤»
22:47 raydiak m: my @a; await do for ^10 { start { @a.push: $_; say "$_ -> @a[*-1]" } }; say @a
22:47 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«0 -> 3␤2 -> 3␤3 -> 3␤1 -> 3␤4 -> 4␤5 -> 5␤6 -> 6␤7 -> 7␤8 -> 8␤9 -> 9␤0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤»
22:47 raydiak hm
22:47 skids http://6guts.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/r​acing-to-writeness-to-wrongness-leads/ # <-- jnthn's article.
22:47 vendethiel skids++ #blog-digging
23:01 vendethiel m: my %a = a => 2, b => 2; my %b = a => 3, b => 5, c => 10; say [+] %a, %b
23:01 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: *%_)␤  in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5127␤  in sub  at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:20590␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/0Rc_5cUkbd:1␤␤»
23:01 vendethiel mmh, I'd like to see something like that, somewhere, maybe a "hashreduce" or something...
23:02 masak not sure what you intend that to result in.
23:02 masak did you mean to reduce on just the values of the two hashes?
23:02 vendethiel yes.
23:02 masak then write .values
23:02 vendethiel I want to keep the keys
23:03 masak um.
23:03 masak then you want something like >>+<< or <<+>>
23:03 masak see S03.
23:03 vendethiel m: my %a = a => 2, b => 2; my %b = a => 3, b => 5, c => 10; my @hashes = %a, %b; my %total; for @hashes { %total{.key} += .value; }; say %total
23:03 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«a => 5, b => 7, c => 10␤»
23:03 vendethiel masak: ^
23:03 masak yeah, that's >>+<< or <<+>>
23:03 masak it's detailed in S03.
23:04 vendethiel m: my %a = a => 2, b => 2; my %b = a => 3, b => 5, c => 10; my @hashes = %a, %b; %total; say [>>+<<] %a, %b
23:04 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/rA1vvW0Yexâ�¤Variable '%total' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/rA1vvW0Yex:1â�¤------> [32m 5, c => 10; my @hashes = %a, %b; %total[33mâ��[31m; say [>>+<<] %a, %b[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        p…»
23:04 vendethiel m: my %a = a => 2, b => 2; my %b = a => 3, b => 5, c => 10; my @hashes = %a, %b; say [>>+<<] %a, %b
23:04 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'infix:<+>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Any $x = { ... })␤:(Any \a, Any \b)␤:(Real \a, Real \b)␤:(Int:D \a, Int:D \b --> Int)␤:(int $a, int $b --> int)␤:(Num:D \a, Num:D \b)␤:(num $a, num $b)␤:(Rational \a, Rational \b)…»
23:04 masak no reduce.
23:04 masak you don't need to reduce.
23:04 masak you just want to hyper-add the stuff.
23:04 vendethiel if I have *many* hashes, yes
23:04 masak fair enough.
23:04 vendethiel say I have an array of hashes -- that's not the case here, but the general case would handle it
23:04 vendethiel m: my %a = a => 2, b => 2; my %b = a => 3, b => 5, c => 10; my @hashes = %a, %b; say %a >>+<< %b
23:04 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context  in block <unit> at /tmp/w_D6XS8tN4:1␤␤a => 5, b => 7, c => 10␤»
23:05 vendethiel plus, that, if a key is missing
23:05 colomon n: my %a = a => 2, b => 2; my %b = a => 3, b => 5, c => 10; my @hashes = %a, %b; say [>>+<<] %a, %b
23:05 camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)Stacktrace:␤␤  at <unknown> <0xffffffff>␤  at (wrapper managed-to-native) object.__icall_wrapper_mono_gc_alloc_string (intptr,intptr,int) <0xffffffff>␤  at (wrapper alloc) object.AllocString (intptr,int) <0xffffffff>␤  at string…»
23:05 vendethiel :(
23:05 masak that's what <<+>> is for, to suppress the warning if keys are missing.
23:05 masak ISTR it doesn't do that yet, unfortunately.
23:05 masak anyway, someone has provided this feature for you already.
23:06 vendethiel oh, really?
23:06 vendethiel m: my %a = a => 2, b => 2; my %b = a => 3, b => 5, c => 10; my @hashes = %a, %b; say %a <<+>> %b
23:06 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«a => 5, b => 7␤»
23:06 masak \o/
23:06 vendethiel I've read S03 maybe 5 or 6 times, but I don't remember about it applying to hashes
23:07 vendethiel also seems weird to me `a OP b` is different than `[OP] a, b` (modulo flattening differences)
23:07 masak S03:4469
23:07 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#line_4469
23:08 masak vendethiel: it's possible that the reduce version unravels the hashes or something. if not, then that's a bug.
23:08 vendethiel ty :)
23:08 masak pzh :)
23:08 vendethiel I really thought I *knew* p6 operators. I'm very happy to see that I still have a long way to go
23:09 masak I learned about hyper for hashes fairly late, too.
23:09 colomon m: my %a = a => 2, b => 2; my %b = a => 3, b => 5, c => 10; my @hashes = %a, %b; say [>>+<<] $%a, $%b
23:09 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context  in block <unit> at /tmp/y5C74JE629:1␤␤a => 5, b => 7, c => 10␤»
23:09 colomon m: my %a = a => 2, b => 2, c => 10000; my %b = a => 3, b => 5, c => 10; my @hashes = %a, %b; say [>>+<<] $%a, $%b
23:09 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«a => 5, b => 7, c => 10010␤»
23:10 colomon it’s a flattening thing, no?
23:11 masak yes.
23:11 masak colomon++
23:21 vendethiel mmh, hhmmm
23:24 dj_goku nine: I just read your pdf on leapfrogging. very very interesting!
23:25 * vendethiel hopes the videos will be available soon-ish :-)
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23:29 flussence IWBNI I could write «sub foo(--> $bar!)» (or something along those lines) to always return a $bar
23:30 flussence or to put it in real-world terms: I want a nice alternative to putting "return self;" as the last line of a bunch of methods...
23:32 alpha- (defmacro ..
23:32 alpha- wait
23:32 alpha- wrong channel.
23:32 masak :)
23:33 * masak .oO( we'll see about that. mwhahaha! )
23:34 flussence .oO( the majority of my gripes with p6 lately have been trying to do impossible things that'd be trivial with macros... )
23:36 masak flussence: practical real-world examples are still happily accepted.
23:37 flussence I'm working on one, but first I'll get the ugly version to pass tests :)
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