Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-02-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:35 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 04f7943 | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
00:35 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
00:35 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/04f7943fc7
00:35 dalek perl6-roast-data: ff5c980 | coke++ | / (5 files):
00:35 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:35 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/ff5c98038d
00:49 [Coke] colomon: mojo6 is basically a skeleton, nothing usable, unless hoelzro is even more amazing than I thought. :)
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00:55 dalek roast: b354a93 | skids++ | S04-declarations/my.t:
00:55 dalek roast: Add tests for RT#102414
00:55 dalek roast:
00:55 dalek roast: Current status:
00:55 dalek roast:
00:55 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=102414
00:56 dalek roast: Original error fixed on moar and parrot, NullPointer on jvm.
00:56 dalek roast: One of two errors added later to the ticket seem to be fixed.
00:56 dalek roast: Spec clarification still needed as to one of the two syntaxes.
00:56 dalek roast: However since that syntax is the one that now works, test it.
00:56 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b354a9304f
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01:08 skids m: loop (my $x = 1, my $y = 2; $x > 0; $x--) { $y.say }; # Gives "Useless use of , warning"
01:08 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "," in expression "my $x = 1, my $y = 2" in sink context (line 1)␤2␤»
01:09 masak m: my $x = 1, my $y = 2; say "$x $y"
01:09 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "," in expression "my $x = 1, my $y = 2" in sink context (line 1)␤1 2␤»
01:09 masak I contest that it's useless.
01:10 skids m: loop (my $x = 1; my $y = 2; $x > 0; $x--) { $y.say }; # Gives "Useless use of , warning"
01:10 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/TdiW3990MA�Missing block�at /tmp/TdiW3990MA:1�------> [32mloop (my $x = 1; my $y = 2; $x > 0[33m�[31m; $x--) { $y.say }; # Gives "Useless use[0m�»
01:10 masak may not be idiomatic, but skids++ just showed that it can be useful.
01:11 skids Well, to C coders that is idiomatic :-).
01:19 Kristien generating javascript code is difficult
01:19 Kristien I wish JavaScript had goto.
01:20 timotimo just make craptons of functions :P
01:20 timotimo like you did for your SSA
01:20 Kristien my new SSA doesn't have that!
01:20 Kristien it also supports more than one basic block per function :P
01:20 Kristien and there are conditional jumps that actually compile to if statements
01:21 skids RT#69492 might be closeable?
01:21 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=69492
01:22 Kristien I bet φ instructions will be fun to implement.
01:22 masak they usually are.
01:23 Kristien the obvious implementation is having each jump set a variable that indicates the block it comes from, and have the phi instruction look it up in a table :P
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01:33 vendethiel- m: say ^10
01:33 vendethiel- uh? camelia?
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01:44 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:16 * Kristien goes to sleep
02:16 Kristien bye
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02:47 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:24 Mouq I'm thinking the "my $x = 1, my $y = 2;" warning is to help people who don't yet know the difference between item and list assignment
03:24 Mouq (still, LTA)
03:24 Mouq m: my $y; my $x = 1, $y =2;
03:24 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: ( no output )
03:24 Mouq m: my $x; $x = 1, my $y = 2;
03:24 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: ( no output )
03:25 Mouq m: my $x = 1, my $y = 2;
03:25 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: ( no output )
03:25 Mouq Oh, last expression
03:25 Mouq m: my $x = 1, my $y = 2; 1
03:25 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "," in expression "my $x = 1, my $y = 2" in sink context (line 1)␤»
03:25 Mouq m: my $y; my $x = 1, $y = 2; 1
03:25 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "," in expression "my $x = 1, $y =" in sink context (line 1)␤»
03:25 Mouq m: my $y; my $x = 1, say "side effects!"; 1
03:25 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "," in expression "my $x = 1, say \"side effects!\"" in sink context (line 1)␤side effects!␤»
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03:26 Mouq std: my $y; my $x = 1, say "side effects!"; 1
03:26 camelia std f9b7f55: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 139m␤»
03:30 skids So in RT, I notice sometimes there are automated updates to tickets when roast updates are made.  But not for the ones I did.
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03:33 Mouq skids: I've noticed that too, I'm not sure if that feature still works though. Or maybe there's some special incantation niether of us know for commit messages or something
03:34 Mouq m: my @a; (0,1,2).map(-> $k {(2,3,4).map(->$k2 {@a[$k][$k2]})}).eager.Parcel = 4..12; say @a.perl
03:34 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Array.new([Any, Any, Any, Any, 6], [Any, Any, Any, Any, 9], [Any, Any, Any, Any, 12])␤»
03:34 Mouq ^^ Notice, it autovivifies @a's elements, but the assignment is wrong
03:34 Mouq m: my @a; (0,1,2).map(-> $k {(2,3,4).map(->$k2 {@a[$k][$k2]})}).eager.Parcel = 4..12; (0,1,2).map(-> $k {(2,3,4).map(->$k2 {@a[$k][$k2]})}).eager.Parcel = 4..12; say @a.perl
03:34 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Array.new([Any, Any, 4, 5, 6], [Any, Any, 7, 8, 9], [Any, Any, 10, 11, 12])␤»
03:35 Mouq ^^ But doing it twice, it works fine
03:36 Mouq The past few days I've been trying to get LoL assignment to a) do autoviv and b) do assignment correctly
03:37 Mouq I'm not sure where the above bug comes from, but I'm guessing it's a bug in Parce.STORE
03:38 skids (RT#64990 is an example of a ticket with the automatic roast notice.)
03:38 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=64990
03:38 Mouq Golfed:
03:38 Mouq m: my @a; (@a[0][1], @a[0][2], @a[1][1], @a[1][2]) = 1,2,3,4; say @a.perl
03:38 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Array.new([Any, Any, 2], [Any, Any, 4])␤»
03:39 Mouq skids: Right, but that was back in 2009 :/
03:39 skids Yeah.
03:39 skids The other thing is I mailed two followup emails to RT for tickets I had no comment in, and they did not seem to take.
03:40 psch std: my $x = 1, my $y = 2; 1;
03:40 camelia std f9b7f55: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 138m␤»
03:40 psch aren't we just warning too much then for that assignment?
03:40 psch m: my $x = 1, my $y = 2; 1;
03:40 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "," in expression "my $x = 1, my $y = 2" in sink context (line 1)␤»
03:41 psch or is that not a warning std would catch?
03:41 skids Yes I think just the warning is the problem.  I noticed that because roast files were emitting them.
03:42 psch m: my @a; @a[0][1] = 1; say @a.perl
03:42 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Array.new([Any, 1])␤»
03:42 psch m: my @a; (@a[0][1],) = (1,); say @a.perl
03:42 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Array.new([Any, 1])␤»
03:43 psch m: my @a; (@a[0][1], @a[0][2]) = (1, 2); say @a.perl
03:43 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Array.new([Any, Any, 2])␤»
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03:44 skids m: my @a; (@a[0][2], @a[1][2], @a[0][1], @a[1][1]) = 1,2,3,4; say @a.perl
03:44 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Array.new([Any, 3], [Any, 4])␤»
03:44 psch oh but there's an NPE on jvm
03:44 psch i'll check that out
03:47 skids m: my @a; my @b := (@a[0][1], @a[1][1], @a[0][2], @a[1][2]); @b = (1,2,3,4); @a.perl.say; # same behavior this way.
03:47 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Array.new([Any, Any, 3], [Any, Any, 4])␤»
03:53 psch std: my (int $a)
03:53 camelia std f9b7f55: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 137m␤»
03:53 psch hm
03:53 psch are those parens superstituous?
03:54 psch oh, found it, S03:Declarators
03:54 synopsebot Link: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#Declarators
03:54 psch m: my :(int $a = 5)
03:54 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/xE2UOAcy1a�Malformed my�at /tmp/xE2UOAcy1a:1�------> [32mmy [33m�[31m:(int $a = 5)[0m�»
03:54 psch m: my :(Str $x = "foo")
03:54 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/lXvt9KuXrV�Malformed my�at /tmp/lXvt9KuXrV:1�------> [32mmy [33m�[31m:(Str $x = "foo")[0m�»
03:55 psch p: my :(Str $x = "foo")
03:55 camelia rakudo-parrot ffbb70: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/UpOxwmm3le�Malformed my�at /tmp/UpOxwmm3le:1�------> [32mmy [33m�[31m:(Str $x = "foo")[0m�»
03:56 skids Mouq: it looks to me like on that first list assignment, each autoviv nukes the existing array.
03:59 Mouq skids: Ohh, nice! So @a[0] = [Any, 1]; and then @a[0] = [Any, Any, 2]
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03:59 psch std: my :(Dog $foo is woof = 42)
03:59 camelia std f9b7f55: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Malformed my at /tmp/xONOC85Ix0 line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy [33mâ��[31m:(Dog $foo is woof = 42)[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤       nameâ�¤   scoped declaratorâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:00 134mâ�¤Â»
03:59 psch huh, std and specs don't agree, apparently
04:00 psch std: my (Dog $foo is woof = 42)
04:00 camelia std f9b7f55: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�In parameter declaration, typename 'Dog' must be predeclared (or marked as declarative with :: prefix) at /tmp/ZPkSmA9Aac line 1:�------> [32mmy (Dog[33m�[31m $foo is woof = 42)[0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:00 136m�»
04:04 Mouq m: my @a; my \p := @a[0]; (p[1], p[2]) = 1,2; say @a.perl
04:04 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«Array.new([Any, 1, 2])␤»
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04:19 asdf12z_ any good books, guides, or tours whatever you want to call them to perl6?
04:20 psch asdf12z_: http://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ is a good introductory tour
04:21 asdf12z_ is supplies core to perl6 or is it part of it's standard lib?
04:21 Mouq perl6 -e'my @a; @a[0,1;2,3] = 1,2,3,4; say @a.perl'
04:21 Mouq Array.new([Any, Any, 1, 2], [Any, Any, 3, 4])
04:21 Mouq \o/
04:21 psch m: Supply.interval(1).tap(-> $s { say "{$s}th tap }); sleep 5
04:21 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/9tdJhXEzOZâ�¤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' â�¤at /tmp/9tdJhXEzOZ:1â�¤------> [32m.tap(-> $s { say "{$s}th tap }); sleep 5[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤    expectin…»
04:21 psch m: Supply.interval(1).tap(-> $s { say "{$s}th tap" }); sleep 5
04:21 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«0th tap␤1th tap␤2th tap␤3th tap␤4th tap␤5th tap␤»
04:21 asdf12z_ :(
04:21 skids asdf12z_: Core, but only recently implemented, so you need the moarvm backend.
04:22 asdf12z_ seems like a lot of 'overloading' with sigils and things packaged into core
04:22 asdf12z_ wouldve been nice to see things like that be more explicitly imported in
04:22 Mouq asdf12z_: Can you give an example? I'm not sure what you mean
04:22 skids For the most part, nothing gets in the way.
04:23 psch why? async is hard.  having tools to make it easy is useful
04:23 asdf12z_ but what if i don't need it?
04:23 asdf12z_ it's for visibility purposes
04:23 asdf12z_ mostly
04:23 skids Don't use it, then.
04:23 asdf12z_ still for visibility purposes
04:23 psch what does visibility mean in this context?
04:24 asdf12z_ i should be able to understand by looking at some module or code what its using it its module/code
04:24 skids I'm having a hard time imagining where visibility gets impaired.
04:24 asdf12z_ just by its imports
04:24 psch that sounds rather C-ish to me
04:25 asdf12z_ it is, which i like, but not the way C does it
04:25 asdf12z_ but it's true in mostly every other modern/popular language too
04:27 psch yeah, i find that confusing.  why is exponentiation a basic operation, but logarithms aren't?  - looking at python here
04:27 psch i.e. i have to 'from math import log' to log()
04:27 asdf12z_ visibility in that if i look at a piece of code, i have to remember all of perl6 core vs things that are not part of core and having to process that
04:28 psch maybe log() is special because people (probably?) want to log-to-file more often than log-base-e
04:28 asdf12z_ if you want a great example, i like the way golang does it
04:29 asdf12z_ very very little to remember that are part of golang's core, very little keywords
04:29 * skids really hates includes, personally.
04:29 asdf12z_ everything else is part of its standard lib
04:29 psch i haven't looked at golang at all
04:29 asdf12z_ makes reading code so much easier
04:30 psch FWIW, i don't see any benefit in having a «list of stuff to expect in this file» at the top
04:30 asdf12z_ with perl6 i feel like i have to memorize a lot BEFORE i even touch any modules, libs
04:30 psch i think i understand the argument for not having everything implicitely imported, but i don't understand the argument for having it in the stdlib (which is always there) but not imported
04:31 psch because runtime exports mean that maybe we only import something later on, and that gets more confusing than having everything there from the start
04:31 psch s/exports/imports/
04:31 psch *the posibility of runtime...
04:32 asdf12z_ oh i guess thats true for runtime imports
04:32 asdf12z_ but i guess that can be solved by common coding practice?
04:32 psch m: module Foo { constant TAU = 2 * pi }; BEGIN try EVAL "say TAU"; try EVAL "say TAU"; END { import Foo; say Foo::TAU }
04:32 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«6.28318530717959␤»
04:33 skids Perhaps we'll eventually have a lot of "no" pragmas and then if you like, you can turn off parts of the language for visibility.
04:33 psch m: module Foo { constant TAU = 2 * pi }; { say TAU; CATCH { default { say "no TAU :(" } } }; END { import Foo; say Foo::TAU }
04:33 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/tcNNRvSi6aâ�¤Undeclared name:â�¤    TAU used at line 1â�¤â�¤Â»
04:33 psch grml
04:33 psch can't push the constant to runtime like that
04:34 psch m: module Foo { our \TAU = 2 * pi }; { say Foo::TAU; CATCH { default { say "no TAU :(" } } }; END { import Foo; say Foo::TAU }
04:34 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/Ag9PltD_yY�our scoped term definitions (only 'my' is supported at the moment) not yet implemented. Sorry. �at /tmp/Ag9PltD_yY:1�------> [32mmodule Foo { our \TAU = 2 * pi [33m�[31m}; { sa…»
04:34 psch ...and an NYI :)
04:34 * psch stops noise-ing about
04:35 psch asdf12z_: there might be an argument made for "don't do runtime imports", but i doubt the practice would achieve more than (potentially very) big BEGIN blocks
04:36 psch or maybe INIT, i'm a bit fuzzy on phasers
04:36 asdf12z_ i mean to a newcomer that doesn't know perl, it just seems overwhelming in that there's a lot to remember for just using perl6 minus any libraries, you can say if you don't want it, don't use it, but i'm still forced to memorize it exists just in case later on i see it
04:37 asdf12z_ so i know Supplies isn't pulled in by some import
04:37 Mouq m: module Foo { constant TAU is export = 2 * pi }; { say Foo::TAU; CATCH { default { say "no TAU :(" } } }; { import Foo; say TAU }
04:37 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«6.28318530717959␤6.28318530717959␤»
04:37 asdf12z_ or some kind of magical trickery some lib is doing
04:37 skids But you also have to memorize what to exmplicitly include on the flip side, so...
04:38 asdf12z_ that's not true, i can just look up the standard lib in golang and find what i want to use
04:38 asdf12z_ so i don't have to memorize every lib's name
04:38 psch asdf12z_: p6doc exists, albeit incomplete
04:39 asdf12z_ besides the naming of supplies is ambigious
04:39 psch asdf12z_: the plan is to have it available in the REPL as well, for the self-documenting introspection
04:39 skids But you can just look up identifiers you find in sources in the docs, when you don't know them, so I'm not seeing the difference.
04:39 asdf12z_ but i'd have to memorize it to know where to look is what im saying
04:39 skids Right or through introspection.
04:40 psch m: #| does the magicks␤sub foo() { warn "NYI" }; say &foo.WHY
04:40 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«does the magicks␤»
04:40 skids why?  You see someone using class "fnord" and you look up "fnord"?
04:40 psch m: say "Life, the Universe, and Everything".WHY
04:40 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«42␤»
04:40 asdf12z_ skids: and then if fnord doesn't exist, i'd have to look at the libs its importing to see which one creates that namespace ?
04:40 skids Wait what who put that in there.
04:41 psch skids: lizmat++ iirc
04:41 asdf12z_ skids: unless i memorized every identifier to know it doesn't come from perl6 core, then i'd go look at the imports, otherwise i'd have to check in 2 places
04:42 skids I... really don't see your point.
04:43 psch m: module Foo { sub baz is export { } }; import Foo; say &baz.package
04:43 camelia rakudo-moar ffbb70: OUTPUT«(Foo)␤»
04:43 psch asdf12z_: ^^^ would that help?
04:44 asdf12z_ no
04:45 asdf12z_ because i can look at perl6 code and see something like `convert;`
04:45 asdf12z_ and i won't know (unless i memorized every identifier perl6 has) if convert is some macro or part of perl6
04:46 asdf12z_ or if*
04:46 asdf12z_ its a non-issue if it was small enough to memorize
04:47 asdf12z_ thats my point
04:48 psch but it works the other way around as well.  if there's no «use» or «import» statement at the top you know nothing's been imported
04:48 psch well, except for runtime imports, as mentioned
04:48 psch if those exists you can check what they export, which is probably a smaller list that golang's stdlib
04:49 psch i understand your point, but to me that's not a language design issue, it's a tooling issue
04:49 psch and yes, the tools are lacking at the moment
04:50 psch but thanks to p6doc/POD6 and introspection we can get that from the language itself
04:51 psch i.e. it's probably not very hard to write a tool that you point at a file and ask it about an identifier and it gets you the package it comes from with the documentation that exists
04:51 psch nobody's gotten around to that yet though
04:51 asdf12z_ in golang its very different, and i'm not trying to make perl6 like golang of course, it's just an example
04:52 asdf12z_ https://gobyexample.com/range-over-channels for instance
04:52 asdf12z_ anything that doesn't begin with fmt namespace is part of golang
04:52 Mouq asdf12z_: And you may want to check out doc.perl6.org too. The search interface isn't perfect, and it doesn't know everying, but it should be able to identify the majority Perl 6 builtins
04:52 asdf12z_ anything that does, is part of the fmt lib
04:52 asdf12z_ so if i didn't know what `make` was, i do _know_ it comes from golang
04:53 asdf12z_ its very easy to reason about
04:53 skids How does it benefit you to know whether it comes from golang or a lib, exactly, other than telling you weher eto look for docs?
04:54 asdf12z_ knowing where to look is really really important man
04:54 skids But if you had an search tool that could just find it across docs, that would solve the problem, no?
04:54 asdf12z_ especially if this code wasn't just some short example and 1,000+ lines of code
04:55 asdf12z_ depends on how good the search tool is
04:58 psch that makes me wonder if our "did you mean" could extend to installed modules
04:58 psch it probably could but would be expensive or need an index
05:00 asdf12z_ im just giving my impressions as an outsider of anything perl
05:00 skids Well, expense really isn't as much of a concern in the error path.
05:01 asdf12z_ i've just been casually looking at perl6 talks on youtube whenever i have the time
05:01 asdf12z_ and sometimes it seems perl6 was made for perl users
05:02 skids Another good way to cut your teeth is try the one-liners https://github.com/dnmfarrell/Perl6-One-Liners
05:02 psch skids: right, but depending on the available CURs that could still be too expensive
05:03 psch skids: wouldn't want my LWP one-liner to crawl all modules for "geptrint" :)
05:04 skids Yeah, it sounds like something you'd want to turn on with an --ide flag or something.
05:10 psch asdf12z_: well, perl6 is still perl, nobody ever denied that
05:21 psch hrm, no idea how to fix the NPE in «my (int $x)», but the null-check that should've thrown a more specific error only created an Exception but didn't throw it
05:21 psch that's at least something i suppose... :)
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05:36 fil_ hellos
05:36 yoleaux 30 Jan 2015 17:27Z <FROGGS> fil_: soon meant 7 hours later :o) (I had no idea when I would get around to it, and what it would involve... happily it is just about setting a flag to true)
05:36 skids o/
05:37 fil_ is there a convention about putting classes in files like there is in java?
05:38 fil_ any1?
05:38 skids Very often the easiest way to provide a single class module is to name it after the class, but files can contain multiple classes.
05:39 fil_ are the best practices about how to split your work up into multiple files documented anywhere?
05:39 fil_ it's not clear to me how I should be splitting up my work...
05:39 fil_ in Java it's easy--the language forces you to have 1-to-1
05:39 skids Well, not quite yet, but if you look at modules.perl6.org you can see what others are doing.
05:40 fil_ i spent the last half hour doing that
05:40 fil_ didn't see much consistency
05:40 fil_ ok, sounds like it's premature to be asking...
05:40 fil_ thx
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06:36 moritz good morning
06:38 moritz .tell fil_ IMHO it's best practice to put each class that is publicly accessible into a separate class. As for rest, use your best judgement :-)
06:38 yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to fil_.
07:01 asdf12z_ niecza is no longer in development right?
07:01 asdf12z_ :( perl6 on the clr would be cool
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07:04 moritz asdf12z_: aye
07:05 moritz asdf12z_: I still hope somebody starts a CLR backend for rakudo
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07:41 FROGGS[mobile] o/
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07:51 tadzik o/
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07:56 FROGGS[mobile] tadzik: breakfast?
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08:07 Oe_eden is there a perl6 oreilly book in the making yet or will they update programming perl to accomidate perl6?
08:14 tadzik FROGGS[mobile]: yep
08:15 FROGGS[mobile] Oe_eden: I fear such an oreally book will take a fear years from now
08:15 FROGGS[mobile] I dont think anybody is working at it atm, given that we want to get 6.0.0 out
08:17 FROGGS[mobile] that said, I hope the Perl 6 book gets revived, and I'd like to write a chapter or two about topic I know well
08:17 Oe_eden hmm also I own version 2 op PP but I noticed only yesterday at Fosdem that v3 is almost twice the size... what is that about?
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08:21 FROGGS[mobile] ask wendy :o)
08:21 FROGGS[mobile] I honestly dont know
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08:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 0959c68 | Mouq++ | src/core/ (2 files):
08:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Try once more to do LoL assignment correctly
08:26 dalek rakudo/nom:
08:26 dalek rakudo/nom: There shouldn't be any need to muck about with special cases in the case
08:26 dalek rakudo/nom: of LoL assignment; that handling should be the same as in normal LoL
08:26 dalek rakudo/nom: access. This patch makes sure we're returning the proper container after
08:26 dalek rakudo/nom: an LoL access of any sort; this way, assignment is trivial.
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0959c68566
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 84ca774 | Mouq++ | src/core/ (2 files):
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo into nom
08:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/84ca7742b3
08:27 Mouq Far too many hours went into that tiny patch
08:27 Mouq Lists are hard :P
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08:27 lizmat Mouq++
08:27 * lizmat is going to try that now
08:30 Mouq lizmat++ for alerting me in the first place
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08:45 dalek roast: 4954d43 | lizmat++ | integration/weird-errors.t:
08:45 dalek roast: Unfudge passing test
08:45 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4954d43df4
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08:49 pmichaud bonjour, #prl6
08:49 pmichaud *#perl6
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09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 27ebd7e | lizmat++ | src/ (3 files):
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement the "aka" trait on methods
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom:
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: This basically aliases a method to other names in the same package.  This is
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: different (apparently) to the "handles" trait on method.
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom:
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: method foo aka <bar baz> { # can do $o.foo, or $o.bar or $o.baz for same effect
09:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/27ebd7e4b9
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09:53 FROGGS lizmat: that's my version: multi trait_mod:<is>(Routine $r, :$aka!) is export { $r.package.^add_method($aka, $r) };
09:53 FROGGS @all: I want to improve the Perl 6 book, and write one or two chapters (regexes/grammars and perhaps something else I have knowledge of).... somebody also picks topics?
09:54 FROGGS @all: would be nice if one or two ppl would subscribe to 1-2 topics
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09:57 tadzik [Tux]: how's it going? :)
09:57 tadzik I managed to get internets
09:57 tadzik I'll also update rakudo and see if it breaks my stuff too
10:02 moritz FROGGS: there are already regexes and grammar chapters in book
10:03 moritz *the book
10:03 moritz FROGGS: no objections to improvements though
10:04 moritz do the live streams work today?
10:04 brrt left #perl6
10:06 tadzik in the room I'm in (graphics), there was a conversation like "we don't know, we only see this bar going up and down"
10:07 * FROGGS sits in the Rust talk and sees that their development is identical to ours... just is put in different words
10:07 FROGGS i.e. the speaker calls it "Empiric Iteration", we call it Whirlpool
10:07 tadzik heh
10:08 tadzik is it also in K?
10:08 FROGGS in the Janson
10:08 tadzik ah
10:11 nine dj_goku: thanks!
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10:14 dalek rakudo/nom: 4dd6c91 | lizmat++ | src/core/traits.pm:
10:14 dalek rakudo/nom: Better implementation of "aka" trait on methods
10:14 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4dd6c91074
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10:18 masak good antenoon, #perl6
10:18 masak big day today, huh?
10:18 rurban joined #perl6
10:18 FROGGS masak: aye, Rust will be released this year :P
10:19 masak_grr \o/
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10:19 moritz but that's no news, I thought?
10:20 moritz I mean, they've had that timeline for several weeks now
10:20 moritz or even months
10:20 FROGGS moritz: to somebody like me that does not care about other languages it is :o)
10:21 masak_grr hah! we've had our deadline for *years*, and it's always been "around 18 months from now" :P
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10:25 moritz masak_grr: what's _grr today? :-)
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10:30 FROGGS use std::thread::Thread; -- Rust
10:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 6c957ba | lizmat++ | src/core/traits.pm:
10:32 dalek rakudo/nom: Unbust the Method.handles trait
10:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6c957baf32
10:32 masak_grr moritz: just the same old nickserv business.
10:33 masak_grr moritz: it passes after a while.
10:33 tadzik FROGGS: all I can think of is "use std::badger::Badger::BADGER" :P
10:34 FROGGS *g*
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10:36 cdc moritz: rtmp://stream-a.fosdem.org:1935/play/janson_a
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10:38 alpha- is there a page for Perl 6 which is equivalent to perlfunc in Perl 5 ?
10:39 FROGGS alpha-: perhaps this? http://doc.perl6.org/routine.html
10:39 [ptc] is the sound dropping out all the time for anyone else?
10:39 alpha- thanks
10:39 FROGGS you might want to highlight 'sub' using your browser in case you are searching for subs only...
10:40 alpha- hmm
10:40 FROGGS though, many stuff exists as methods only where it makes sense
10:41 alpha- FROGGS I see that there is no 'async' keyword/function/operator/whatever
10:41 alpha- perl6 has no 'async' ?
10:41 FROGGS it is a keyword
10:41 Kristien green thread master race
10:41 TimToady async is callled 'start' now, and returns a promise
10:42 alpha- oh ok
10:42 moritz cdc: thanks
10:42 TimToady and it's really a statement prefix operator
10:42 moritz [ptc]: sound is stable here
10:42 TimToady so it might or might not take a block
10:43 [ptc] moritz: thanks; must be just my settings
10:43 FROGGS alpha-: here are slides about that topic: http://www.jnthn.net/articles.shtml look out for async and concurrency
10:43 alpha- thanks FROGGS
10:44 FROGGS alpha-: I can also find talks (videos) in case you are interested
10:44 cdc moritz: this stream doesn't work anymore here :'(
10:45 [ptc] are the slides at least available?  The link doesn't appear on live.fosdem.org
10:46 cdc it works again \o/
10:46 alpha- FROGGS not atm, I will read the slides and try writing examples, thanks
10:46 cdc [ptc]: I don't see them either
10:46 [ptc] cdc: it's nice to know it's not just me :-)
10:47 gfldex left #perl6
10:47 alpha- what is the alternative to perlbrew for Perl 6? e.g. a non-root install of perl6 contained in some directory
10:47 gfldex joined #perl6
10:47 FROGGS there is rakudobrew
10:47 FROGGS alpha-: but for rakudo we always do a non-root install by default
10:48 FROGGS so, cloning rakudo will also get you set up, though rakudobrew also installs useful modules and the module installer
10:48 moritz alpha-: https://github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew/
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10:51 alpha- No suitable nqp executables found!
10:51 alpha- I think I am missing something
10:51 tadzik is that what rakudobrew said?
10:51 alpha- no, it's from rakudo Configure.pl
10:51 FROGGS alpha-: perl Configure.pl --gen-moar
10:51 alpha- ok
10:52 FROGGS alpha-: though I thought you get hints printed O.o
10:52 gfldex try perl Configure.pl --backends=moar --gen-nqp --gen-moar
10:53 [ptc] INSTALL.txt in the rakudo repo has good installation instructions
10:53 moritz gfldex: --gen-nqp is implied by --gen-moar
10:53 moritz gfldex: and --backend=moar too (unless you have more NQPs available)
10:54 alpha- I can't figure out what NQP is even after reading the description page
10:54 alpha- is it like llvm ?
10:55 FROGGS alpha-: it is like a very simple version of Perl 6, that lets us write the very core Perl 6 compiler parts also in a Perl 6-ish language
10:55 FROGGS nqp-m: say("hello world")
10:55 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
10:55 alpha- interesting
10:56 FROGGS like in my example, the parenthesis are mandatory in nqp code
10:56 timotimo o/
10:57 [ptc] timotimo: \o
10:57 alpha- are moarvm and nqp strictly perl6 stuff or there are any other projects using this ?
10:57 moritz alpha-: there aren't
10:57 timotimo we have toy interpreters for ruby and python
10:58 moritz alpha-: well, there's a python compiler work-in-progress on nqp
10:58 timotimo and there was a tcl implementation but that was more or less relying on many parrot internals
10:58 moritz https://github.com/arnsholt/snake/
10:58 timotimo the stream is giving me audio, no audio, audio, no audio etc etc
10:58 timotimo actually, video is cutting out as well it seems
10:58 timotimo but only sometimes
10:59 moritz back now here
10:59 [ptc] timotimo: same here
10:59 moritz audio seems to be far ahead of video
10:59 alpha- ok, looks like it built and runs, I think I have something to play with now, thanks
10:59 [ptc] but there's no stream for the slides...
10:59 timotimo this is going to be designing a perl number theory module?
10:59 [ptc] yup
10:59 timotimo OK
11:00 FROGGS alpha-: have fun doing so :o)
11:01 TimToady dana has started
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11:02 dalek rakudo/nom: 92211ce | Mouq++ | INSTALL.txt:
11:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Update INSTALL.txt; Parrot now needs ICU
11:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/92211ce0dd
11:02 dalek rakudo/nom: 6e182d3 | Mouq++ | src/ (3 files):
11:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo into nom
11:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6e182d306c
11:02 alpha- is there a perl6 compiler that can output native code? eg. create .exe or elf ?
11:02 FROGGS alpha-: that's in the works and is a GSoC project proposal for this year
11:02 alpha- I see
11:03 Kristien So many Perl 6 implementations.
11:03 timotimo wow, i cannot at all understand anything the presenter's saying
11:04 jdv79_ where?
11:04 timotimo "i think ... perl ... m ... interesti ... int fo ... envy ... ha ... for lo ... only ... progra ... lang ... island ... grea ... for now ..."
11:05 alpha- timotimo link to stream ?
11:05 timotimo rtmp://stream-a.fosdem.org:1935/play/janson_a
11:05 alpha- looks fine here.
11:05 timotimo i'm jealous
11:06 alpha- 1080p too. nice
11:06 timotimo i have a quite beefy internet connection, so ...
11:06 timotimo what's wrong? :(
11:06 alpha- maybe their connectivity is not great
11:07 timotimo that'd surprise me
11:07 alpha- stream is only using 3-4 megabit per second
11:07 alpha- try different player maybe?
11:08 [ptc] video's coming through fine, just the audio keeps dropping out... frustrating
11:08 alpha- everything 100% fine here,
11:08 timotimo huh
11:08 alpha- video and audio perfect 1080p
11:08 timotimo mpalyer is working much better than vlc for this stream
11:08 alpha- vlc is known to have warts in some places
11:09 timotimo well, what do i know, apparently :)
11:09 alpha- also mplayer is afaik abandoned
11:09 jdv79 yeah, smplayer is ok for me
11:09 alpha- and so is mplayer2
11:09 jdv79 vls is choppy
11:09 alpha- I recommend http://mpv.io/
11:09 timotimo well, the mplayer2 fork spread a whole lot of FUD
11:09 alpha- see link it's a fork of a fork
11:10 alpha- seems to be alive
11:11 tadzik wow, dat lazer
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11:12 timotimo our is-prime is broken for very large numbers? =o
11:12 alpha- perl6 has builtin is-prime?
11:12 timotimo yes
11:12 alpha- wow
11:12 FROGGS he'll send a patch over :o)
11:12 timotimo m: say 100121201203010120.is-prime
11:12 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:12 timotimo m: say 100121201203010121.is-prime
11:12 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:12 timotimo m: say 100121201203010123.is-prime
11:12 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:13 timotimo m: say 100121201203010127.is-prime
11:13 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:13 timotimo i don't know how to prime
11:13 alpha- is it an approximate or definitive algorithm ?
11:13 [ptc] m say 1.is-prime
11:13 [ptc] m: say 1.is-prime
11:13 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:13 moritz alpha-: probailistisc
11:13 [ptc] m: say 2.is-prime
11:13 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:13 timotimo m: say (1001212012030101..10012120​12040101).grep(*.is-prime)
11:13 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«1001212012030103 1001212012030187 1001212012030189 1001212012030273 1001212012030283 1001212012030319 1001212012030339 1001212012030367 1001212012030403 1001212012030421 1001212012030463 1001212012030471 1001212012030519 1001212012030537 1001212012030631 1…»
11:14 alpha- moritz that's...
11:14 FROGGS m: my $i = 10012120120301012787439875938749587398475; until $i.is-prime { $i++ }; say $i
11:14 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«10012120120301012787439875938749587398503␤»
11:14 alpha- brave
11:14 arnsholt is-prime is approximate, but IIRC the probability of it being wrong is on the order of a bit in RAM being flipped by a cosmic ray, or some such
11:14 pmichaud bon après midi, #perl6
11:14 FROGGS pmichaud: o/
11:14 timotimo wolframalpha agrees it's prime
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11:14 tadzik m: 9.is-prime.say
11:14 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:15 tadzik uff :)
11:15 FROGGS pmichaud: we are in the Janson already, sitting in the middle first row
11:15 alpha- /usr/bin/factor too
11:15 pmichaud FROGGS: I'm seven seats to your left, one row back.
11:15 Kristien m: sub sqrt($x) { PRE { $x >= 0 }; ??? }; say sqrt(9); say sqrt(-1);
11:15 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«Stub code executed  in sub sqrt at /tmp/JO6oh8Ow8G:1␤␤0␤Precondition '{ $x >= 0 }' failed␤  in sub sqrt at /tmp/JO6oh8Ow8G:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/JO6oh8Ow8G:1␤␤»
11:15 tadzik oh, *that*'s where you hid
11:15 timotimo greetings, pmichaud
11:15 Kristien nice.
11:15 Kristien preconditions
11:17 timotimo i'm glad a really number-theory-savy is interested in perl6, too, so that our stuff can be put through its paces
11:17 [ptc] yay, audio is working with mplayer2
11:17 FROGGS timotimo: aye
11:17 espadrine_ joined #perl6
11:17 FROGGS dana++ # and he really know its stuff
11:18 vendethiel joined #perl6
11:18 FROGGS his*
11:18 jdv79 theres no slide feed?
11:18 [ptc] jdv79: doesn't seem to be
11:19 Kristien Can one access in a POST phaser the return value in a different way than assigning it to a variable first?
11:19 kaare_ joined #perl6
11:19 moritz Kristien: iirc it's passed in as $_
11:20 Kristien m: sub abs($x) { return $x; POST { $_ >= 0 } }; say abs(-10)
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«Postcondition '{ $_ >= 0 }' failed␤  in sub abs at /tmp/BniuO2z3tg:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/BniuO2z3tg:1␤␤»
11:20 Kristien nice
11:20 Kristien m: sub abs($x) { $x; POST { $_ >= 0 } }; say abs(-10)
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Nil in numeric context  in sub abs at /tmp/bp6TIjyFhS:1␤␤Nil␤»
11:20 Kristien m: sub abs($x) { POST { $_ >= 0 }; $x }; say abs(-10)
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«Postcondition '{ $_ >= 0 }' failed␤  in sub abs at /tmp/fc2dyQdXRF:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/fc2dyQdXRF:1␤␤»
11:21 Kristien m: sub abs($x) { POST { $_ >= 0 }; $x }; say abs(10)
11:21 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«10␤»
11:21 Kristien most shiny
11:21 FROGGS that makes sense I guess
11:21 Kristien I love contract programming.
11:22 moritz m: sub abs($x) { POST { $_ >= 0 }; $x }; try abs($x); say $!.perl
11:22 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/_BY72tB2j8â�¤Variable '$x' is not declaredâ�¤at /tmp/_BY72tB2j8:1â�¤------> [32m$x) { POST { $_ >= 0 }; $x }; try abs($x[33mâ��[31m); say $!.perl[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        postfixâ�¤Â»
11:22 moritz m: sub abs($x) { POST { $_ >= 0 }; $x }; try abs(-1); say $!.perl
11:22 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«X::Phaser::PrePost.new(phaser => "POST", condition => " \{ \$_ >= 0 }")␤»
11:23 alpha- does perl6 have arbitrary precision math ?
11:24 denis_boyun joined #perl6
11:24 TimToady m: say [\*] 1..*
11:24 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«1 2 6 24 120 720 5040 40320 362880 3628800 39916800 479001600 6227020800 87178291200 1307674368000 20922789888000 355687428096000 6402373705728000 121645100408832000 2432902008176640000 51090942171709440000 1124000727777607680000 25852016738884976640000 62…»
11:25 TimToady m: say 1,2,4 ... *
11:25 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 16384 32768 65536 131072 262144 524288 1048576 2097152 4194304 8388608 16777216 33554432 67108864 134217728 268435456 536870912 1073741824 2147483648 4294967296 8589934592 17179869184 34359738368 68719476736…»
11:25 pmichaud I'm not sure our precision is arbitrary.  :)
11:25 TimToady m: say 2 ** 1000
11:25 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«10715086071862673209484250490600018105​614048117055336074437503883703510511249361224​931983788156958581275946729175531468251871452​856923140435984577574698574803934567774824230​985421074605062371141877954182153046474983581​94126739876755916554394607706291457119…»
11:25 alpha- cool so integers are there
11:25 alpha- and fractions?
11:25 Kristien m: say 2.6 ** 1000
11:25 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
11:25 Kristien m: say (2+6/10) ** 1000
11:25 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
11:26 Kristien lol ** fails on rationals
11:26 pmichaud m: say 1 / 2**1000
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«9.33263618503219e-302␤»
11:26 Kristien m: (2+6/10).WHAT.say
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
11:26 pmichaud m: say 1 / 2**100
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«7.88860905221012e-31␤»
11:26 TimToady we do rational arithmetic up to a denominator of 2**64
11:26 Kristien oh OK
11:26 pmichaud m: say (1 / 2**50)
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«0.00000000000000089␤»
11:26 alpha- m: 22/7
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: ( no output )
11:26 pmichaud m: say (1 / 2**50).WHAT
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
11:26 TimToady m: say .1 + .2 - .3
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«0␤»
11:26 alpha- m: say 22/7
11:26 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«3.142857␤»
11:27 alpha- how to get to 50 digits after . ?
11:27 pmichaud m: say 355/113
11:27 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«3.141593␤»
11:27 gfldex m: say '0.', '0' x 50, '1';
11:27 moritz say qx/pi/
11:27 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«0.0000000000000000000000​00000000000000000000000000001␤»
11:28 gfldex easy!
11:28 moritz say qx/pi 50/ # actually
11:28 Kristien m: say (22/7).perl
11:28 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«<22/7>␤»
11:28 jdv79 did the video just freezw?
11:28 gfldex jdv79: works for me
11:28 jdv79 maybe my conn
11:28 alpha- once it froze, yes
11:28 alpha- a bit earlier
11:29 cdc same for me
11:29 Kristien m: say (22/7).Num.perl
11:29 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«3.14285714285714e0␤»
11:29 Kristien m: say (22/7).Num
11:29 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«3.14285714285714␤»
11:30 moritz m: say pi.Rat.perl
11:30 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«<355/113>␤»
11:30 manab joined #perl6
11:30 tadzik :)
11:30 pmichaud wow, pi.Rat gives back the 355/113 fraction.
11:30 pmichaud that's... neat.
11:30 manab hello everyone
11:30 alpha- wow, perl  has builtin pi
11:30 alpha- haha
11:30 alpha- nice
11:30 moritz hi manab
11:30 tadzik is pi in settings ratified, or Numd?
11:31 manab new to this community
11:31 moritz tadzik: Num
11:31 Kristien m: pi.WHAT.say
11:31 moritz m: say pi.^name
11:31 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
11:31 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«Num␤»
11:31 tadzik awesome that it comes up with the Rat representation
11:31 manab can someone please help me out so i can start contributing for tpf projects
11:31 Kristien m: sin(pi).say
11:31 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«1.22464679914735e-16␤»
11:31 FROGGS manab: how can I help you?
11:31 moritz manab: find one that interests you
11:32 moritz manab: http://rakudo.org/how-to-help/ for example
11:32 jdv79 my video has diverged from audio now
11:32 Kristien m: class PI { }; method sin(PI $x) { 0 }; sin(PI).say
11:32 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my method sin'?)␤Cannot call 'sin'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Numeric \x)␤:(Cool \x)␤:(num $x)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/5lGzJ8PtX0:1␤␤»
11:32 jdv79 neat
11:32 manab thanks a lot
11:32 Kristien m: class PI { }; multi sub sin(PI $x) { 0 }; sin(PI).say
11:32 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«0␤»
11:32 denis_boyun joined #perl6
11:32 Kristien :D
11:32 Kristien m: class PI { }; multi sub sin(PI $x) { 0 }; sin(pi).say
11:32 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«1.22464679914735e-16␤»
11:33 tadzik m: my constant pi = 4; say sin(pi)
11:33 camelia rakudo-moar 27ebd7: OUTPUT«-0.756802495307928␤»
11:33 tadzik :-D-/-<
11:33 Kristien write a CAS in Perl 6
11:33 moritz manab: in general, you look for TODO files, or simply use the project, find something that could be improved, and do it
11:33 moritz Kristien: iirc somebody started one. Was it raydiak?
11:33 manab ohh okay
11:33 manab thank u :)
11:34 sqirrel joined #perl6
11:34 manab i actually wanted to contribute for tpf gsoc15
11:34 FROGGS look a sqirrel!
11:34 anaeem1 joined #perl6
11:34 moritz manab: why TPF?
11:34 moritz manab: I'm just curious
11:34 cdc jdv79: you can use "-" or "+" with mplayer to resync manually
11:34 sqirrel :P
11:35 jdv79 oh. i restarted
11:35 FROGGS manab: look at this, and (let) add ideas as needed: https://github.com/perl6/mu/blob​/master/misc/gsoc-2015/ideas.md
11:35 Kristien moritz: https://github.com/raydiak/Math-Symbolic
11:35 manab moritz: i want to learn perl actually, curiosity
11:35 moritz manab: that's a good motivation :-)
11:36 manab i have done many projects on java , html, apps
11:36 jdv79 slides are now working
11:36 [ptc] yay!
11:36 moritz jdv79: stream URL?
11:36 manab FROGGS: thanks a lot :)
11:36 colomon are there ongoing p6 talks?
11:36 FROGGS manab: you're welcome
11:36 [ptc] mplayer rtmp://stream-a.fosdem.org:1935/play/janson_a
11:36 jdv79 ..._b
11:36 [ptc] ups ... _b
11:36 FROGGS colomon: larry's talk will come next
11:36 cdc jdv79: thanks for this good news !
11:36 colomon do we have audio?
11:37 tadzik colomon: currently mostly Perl 5, but Larry comes in 25 minutes from now
11:37 jdv79 yes
11:37 colomon \o/
11:37 jdv79 seems to all work atm in mplayer
11:37 Kristien I learned a new programming language yesterday.
11:37 Kristien I want to learn more soon.
11:37 FROGGS Kristien++
11:37 moritz \o/
11:38 moritz working streams
11:38 colomon hmmm…. I’m getting audio with janson_a but not janson_b ?
11:38 Kristien Such as Perl 6.
11:38 [ptc] colomon: I don't think there is audio on janson_b
11:39 [ptc] life.fosdem.org says that the presentation stream is without audio
11:39 * moritz does a  mplayer -vo null jason_a  and an mplayer json_b
11:39 * cdc same as moritz
11:40 cdc well "-ao null" for json_b because it has some sound glitch
11:40 [ptc] cdc: thanks, that was a good idea
11:41 ggoebel111111112 joined #perl6
11:43 kshannon joined #perl6
11:43 pmichaud Throwback sunday: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/o5ixkD7Y1b_​6rSWwquNoLdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink   # Pm presenting in Jansen at FOSDEM 2008
11:43 colomon TimToady!
11:44 FROGGS pmichaud: nice picture :o)
11:45 masak_grr so, TimToady in 15 minutes?
11:45 pmichaud masak: that's the schedule
11:45 Kristien :O
11:46 djanatyn joined #perl6
11:46 pmichaud There are butterflies on the main screen :)
11:46 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
11:46 masak \o/
11:46 jdv79 unless he's at the podium for another reason
11:46 Kristien Is it Get ready to party!?
11:46 masak_grr yes!
11:46 pmichaud The main screen says we should get ready to party, yes.
11:46 pmichaud Well, it did.
11:46 Kristien nice haircut
11:46 pmichaud Now it has some scary fibonacci code.
11:47 FROGGS now it shows linenoise instead :P
11:47 tadzik haha, we're hiring :)
11:47 FROGGS err, what pmichaud++ said
11:47 pmichaud Room is filling nicely
11:47 masak_grr this is exciting
11:47 FROGGS aye
11:47 Kristien if only the stream worked
11:48 masak_grr I don't have a feed, so I'm grateful for people reporting here on IRC
11:48 pmichaud "Don't cross the streams."
11:48 colomon I seem to have lost audio?
11:48 masak_grr if only
11:48 tadzik all aboard the hype train!
11:48 Kristien it shows just one frame
11:48 jdv79 is the a feed broke?
11:48 denis_boyun joined #perl6
11:48 FROGGS colomon: the mic has been muted
11:48 torbjorn joined #perl6
11:49 cdc the video is OK, but no audio here
11:49 pmichaud I don't know how long I'll be able to report; my laptop battery is degraded and I don't know how much charge i'll have
11:49 colomon I’m getting live TimToady but no audio
11:49 colomon FROGGS++
11:49 sergot hiho \o
11:49 jdv79 huh
11:49 rurban was there audio with dana?
11:49 masak_grr if TimToady announces Perl 7 today, I will switch to Ruby.
11:49 tadzik :D
11:49 sergot :D
11:49 FROGGS rurban: there was
11:49 * pmichaud runs powertop to try to save some power
11:49 * colomon doesn’t know how long he’ll be able to watch …
11:49 FROGGS rurban: only on one of the streams of course
11:50 * colomon needs to start shoveling snow sometime in the next hour
11:50 rurban maybe they'll turn it on later
11:50 manab FROGGS: can i talk to u on personal chat?
11:50 Kristien eh how does mpv.io work
11:50 FROGGS manab: sure
11:50 cdc for mplayer users, on janson_b: -vf crop=844:698:216:21
11:50 timotimo hum
11:50 timotimo currently i'm seeing a still frame of lwall setting up
11:50 Kristien let's try vlc instead
11:51 timotimo ah, better now
11:51 pmichaud it's not a still... TimToady is actually frozen.  :) :) :)
11:51 Woodi_ hallo #perl6 :)
11:51 _dolmen_ joined #perl6
11:51 timotimo twitter says "i'm hoping for dance moves"
11:51 sergot hi Woodi_
11:51 Kristien oh nice it works
11:51 timotimo now i can't really tell if there's going to be sound or not
11:51 Ugator joined #perl6
11:52 masak_grr Dance Dance Perlvolution
11:52 pmichaud lots of people taking pictures of TimToady at the podium with the cover slide behind him
11:52 rurban vlc is good for me, just the audio is missing still
11:52 pmichaud it's almost as if they expect this to be a historic announcement or something.
11:52 jdv79 is he ok?
11:52 rurban NLPW?
11:52 pmichaud I suspect audio is muted.  Wouldn't expect it to be on for another 5 minutes.
11:53 jdv79 frozen indeed
11:53 timotimo you know shit just got real when there's two computers on the speaker's desk
11:53 timotimo one balanced on a trolley, no less :)
11:53 masak_grr does anyone have a URL directly to a stream? I'm so bad at this.
11:53 * colomon hopes he successfully got VLC recording the stream
11:53 Woodi_ I switched vlc to mpv and voice is good. also I managed to discover that jason_a and _b are both one presentation :)
11:53 rurban http://live.fosdem.org/watch.php?room=Janson
11:53 cdc masak_grr: rtmp://stream-a.fosdem.org:1935/play/janson_a
11:54 alpha- no audio on janson_a stream
11:54 timotimo is this about ergonomic placement of laptops?
11:54 rurban you can use HTML5, RTMP (the best) or FLV
11:54 cdc alpha-: mic is muted
11:54 timotimo or trying to get better wifi reception? %)
11:54 masak_grr cdc: muchos gracias!
11:54 masak_grr it's working \o/
11:55 alpha- is that a thinkpad :)
11:55 rurban yes
11:55 alpha- cool
11:55 timotimo can you really call it thinkpad if it doesn't have the red light-up dot in the corner any more?
11:56 dylanwh thinkpads don't even have three mouse buttons any more. :(
11:56 rurban Stands this for "No Limit Pro Wrestling" or "Nederlandse Perl Workshop"?
11:56 masak_grr my stream went black
11:56 jdv79 craigslist?
11:57 FROGGS the hall is getting quite full it seems
11:57 alpha- I think he works there
11:57 alpha- for some time now
11:57 jdv79 o
11:57 Kristien yay audio
11:57 timotimo dylanwh: the x1 carbon seems to
11:57 cdc sound !
11:57 masak_grr ah, got it back by restarting it
11:57 jdv79 audio?
11:58 timotimo SOUND!
11:58 masak_grr AUDIO?
11:58 cdc not any more
11:58 FROGGS NOISE!
11:58 moritz wow, two streams in parallel seem to really straini my laptop's battery
11:59 moritz it says 1h remaining, before I started them it said 3h
11:59 FROGGS moritz: you might better plug in your a/
11:59 FROGGS a/c*
11:59 * masak_grr .oO( <laptop> that was before I know you were gonna do THAT )
11:59 timotimo air conditioning?
11:59 [ptc] what was the command in mplayer to refresh?  was it + or something?
11:59 Alina-malina joined #perl6
11:59 FROGGS timotimo: well, it can keep you warm
12:00 cdc [ptc]: do you mean to resync a!v ?
12:00 cdc a/v
12:00 cdc it's "-" and "+"
12:00 [ptc] cdc: probably....
12:00 [ptc] cdc: cool, thanks :-)
12:00 colomon stream keeps freezing on me.  :\
12:00 cdc audio is back
12:00 tadzik all these people kill the wifi
12:00 masak_grr colomon: same
12:01 Kristien only the slide stream is broken for me
12:01 timotimo i don't think they are brave enough to be running their streaming setups over wifi
12:01 * masak_grr got audio o/
12:02 colomon arrr!
12:02 masak_grr you too, huh?
12:02 alpha- much lag
12:02 masak_grr the suspense is killing me!
12:02 jdv79 man
12:02 timotimo noooo why is the stream now lagging? >:(
12:02 colomon yes, audio and/or video cutting out every five seconds or so
12:03 cdc hint: use "-vo null" agains jason_a with mplayer
12:03 cdc *against
12:03 timotimo god damn it, stream :(
12:03 pmichaud room continues to fill up
12:03 [ptc] come on stream!  you can do it!
12:04 tadzik you know the talk is popular when wifi ping is measured in minutes
12:04 tadzik (almost)
12:04 timotimo is there any way to get a look at the slides, too?
12:04 cdc timotimo: rtmp://stream-a.fosdem.org:1935/play/janson_b
12:04 timotimo oh
12:05 timotimo nice
12:05 timotimo transparent windows <3
12:05 * colomon gives up on the stream of TimToady and looks at the stream of the slides
12:05 * alpha- . o O ( whats this all about )
12:05 timotimo the slide stream doesn't do audio, right?
12:05 [ptc] timotimo: no
12:05 colomon right
12:06 * masak_grr sticks to TimToady
12:06 timotimo now i have audio and a still frame
12:06 [ptc] you have to do -vo null on the video stream
12:06 cdc colomon: use can use "mplayer -vo null rtmp://stream-a.fosdem.org:1935/play/janson_a"
12:06 timotimo and it seems the slide stream is kind of waaayyyy delayed from the other stream
12:06 colomon I don’t have mplayer here.
12:06 mst timotimo: sycnrhonisation is hard
12:06 cdc timotimo: use vlc against janson_b, it works better than with mplayer
12:06 mst ... apparently also hard to spell
12:07 cdc vlc resync automatically
12:07 cdc to sumup a good setup:
12:07 cdc mplayer -vo null rtmp://stream-a.fosdem.org:1935/play/janson_a
12:07 cdc vlc rtmp://stream-a.fosdem.org:1935/play/janson_b
12:07 cdc enjoy :D
12:07 alpha- listening to audio only is a good idea
12:07 alpha- no slides anyway
12:08 brrt joined #perl6
12:08 cdc and restarts mplayer if it says: "Too many buffered pts"
12:08 brrt TimToady++'s talks is nearly watchable
12:08 brrt at least on vlc
12:08 colomon _b way ahead of _a, yes?
12:09 cdc not here
12:09 timotimo i have no clue actually
12:09 timotimo in what direction it goes
12:09 Kristien I should give Catalyst a try.
12:10 brrt well, i'm in EU, so that may help
12:10 timotimo me, too
12:10 timotimo i don't seem to be benefiting greatly from that, though
12:10 [ptc] me neither...
12:12 gfldex Larry's popularity exceeds the capacity of my intartubes :(
12:13 timotimo i'm already seeing things about perl6 itself on the slide stream, but still hearing talk about tolkiens stories on the other stream >_<
12:13 tadzik it's stll about tolkien
12:14 tadzik or is it :)
12:14 Kristien Oh, it assumes a diredtory layout
12:14 Kristien nvm then
12:14 nige joined #perl6
12:14 cdc Perl 6 makes you travel in time
12:14 masak_grr tadzik: the whole Tolkien universe is all just a metaphor for the Perl 6 project.
12:16 timotimo what is a FNORK
12:16 Kristien let's try PSGI
12:16 dg https://mobile.twitter.com/dav​idgl/status/561859962276941824 -- taken from the very back row
12:16 masak_grr timotimo: it's what you get when you combine "fnord" with a spork?
12:17 timotimo oh, that's a nice big hall
12:17 masak_grr with a nice Wall
12:17 timotimo damn you, stream
12:17 timotimo still frame on wall since a minute or so
12:18 timotimo but the audio is stable
12:18 timotimo when i restart mplayer, the video is animated again, but audio stutters
12:18 timotimo and i'm pretty sure the slide stream is hanging, too
12:18 masak_grr well, we know one thing as of today: when TimToady says "I've got something to say", people come to listen.
12:18 * masak_grr .oO( schedule it, and they will come )
12:18 [ptc] timotimo: have found mplayer -vo null on the video stream helpful
12:18 [ptc] timotimo: and vlc for the slide stream
12:19 [ptc] timotimo: at least it works atm ...
12:21 rindolf joined #perl6
12:23 pmichaud I'm suddenly reminded of the Higgs boson announcements at CERN :)
12:23 masak_grr pmichaud: TimToady is using Comic Sans!?
12:23 masak_grr that's it, it's Ruby for me.
12:24 masak_grr :P
12:24 pmichaud currently not comic sans.  :)
12:24 cdc to stream viewers: _b is about 1 minute ahead of _a
12:24 cdc juste pause _b for 1 minute :)
12:25 * masak_grr looks forward to watching this again in a few weeks without the sound going all i-a-i-i-a-y.
12:26 * colomon has to give up and get ready.  Somebody post a summary he can read it after rehearsasl?
12:26 * [ptc] is looking forward to seeing ovid's and jnthn's talks with audio...
12:26 tadzik colomon: I'll write you a tl;dr :)
12:27 masak_grr colomon: people will probably mention this in the blogosphere :P
12:27 * masak_grr checks what twitter is saying currently
12:27 timotimo i can easily adjust audio/video delay, but not video/reality delay
12:28 moritz pause reality?
12:28 masak_grr DON'T DO IT
12:29 moritz well, who would resume it? :-)
12:30 cdc TimToady has started to talk about Perl 6 :)
12:30 timotimo i remember a show on tv when i was a kid about a girl whose father was an alien and that meant she could freeze and thaw time for everyone except her by clapping or touching the tips of her fingertips
12:30 masak_grr no!
12:30 [ptc] only seeing "companions" the whole time... *sigh*
12:31 moritz [ptc]: restart your player
12:31 [ptc] moritz: been there, done that :0/
12:31 sivoais joined #perl6
12:31 pmichaud the "companions" slide was up for a long time
12:31 [ptc] now I have "eagles"
12:31 pmichaud "moonlight"
12:32 pmichaud I can give the slide words here :)
12:32 pmichaud "the nick of time"
12:32 [ptc] ah, ok, now I think I've caught up :-)
12:32 masak_grr yes, please
12:32 timotimo %)
12:32 pmichaud "where it goes"
12:32 cdc pmichaud: with 1 minute of delay, please :)
12:32 kjs_ I keep expecting to see some p5/p6 source code
12:32 timotimo thank you, pmichaud
12:32 [ptc] pmichaud: and we need all the code ;-)
12:33 timotimo but those are undelayed apparently?
12:33 [ptc] pmichaud++
12:33 pmichaud "when it goes"
12:33 * masak_grr lost audio
12:33 timotimo "skew me"
12:33 pmichaud "BEGIN END"
12:34 pmichaud "CHECK INIT"
12:34 timotimo i seem to be exactly synchronized with pmichaud
12:34 timotimo with my slide stream
12:34 pmichaud "ENTER LEAVE"
12:34 pmichaud "KEEP UNDO"
12:34 pmichaud "FIRST NEXT LAST CATCH"
12:35 gfldex pmichaud is about 5 minutes ahead of my intartubes :)
12:35 masak_grr yes, that sounds right.
12:35 masak_grr my streamed TimToady just said "eagles".
12:35 masak_grr looking forward to hearing a lot about phasers in 5 minutes :)
12:35 pmichaud constant fib = 0, 1, * + * ... *;
12:36 timotimo "meeting gollum as he just lost his ring"
12:36 alinbsp joined #perl6
12:36 timotimo save the dwarves from burning trees
12:36 timotimo rescue gandalf at least twice
12:36 masak_grr bloody eagles
12:36 timotimo "phases of activity"
12:36 pmichaud (switching to live demo stream)
12:36 vendethiel oooh, it works!
12:37 timotimo it's a console!
12:37 El_Che do you guys have video?
12:37 timotimo yes
12:37 El_Che fantastic!
12:37 timotimo well, for some value of "have"
12:37 masak_grr it's a bit timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly, but it's definitely video
12:38 vendethiel yes, video + sound. somewaht
12:38 masak_grr there's some kind of native American on my screen, talking about phasers. I'm confused.
12:38 vendethiel wow, that's a big crowd to talk before
12:38 timotimo the slide stream is reconnecting every few seconds it seems
12:38 rmgk_ joined #perl6
12:38 vendethiel how do I get audio, video *and* slides? :P
12:38 El_Che I am *so* glad we move Larry from the devroom to the main track
12:38 timotimo you don't
12:38 vendethiel there can only be one vlc :(
12:38 pmichaud "lazy context"
12:39 masak_grr El_Che: yes, that was clearly a wise thing to do.
12:39 pmichaud "lazy exceptions"
12:39 vendethiel I want to see the slides, but then I don't hear the sound. dang!
12:39 timotimo hyper operators <3
12:39 kjs_ vendethiel: use mplayer for one stream, vlc for another
12:39 timotimo vendethiel: well, you have to receive both streams at the same time, duh
12:39 pmichaud "lazy lexers"
12:39 vendethiel kjs_: currently on windows
12:39 * vendethiel lost the slides stream
12:40 pmichaud "ANNOUNCEMENT!"
12:40 masak_grr don't shake the camera!
12:40 timotimo still frame on larry again ;(
12:40 cdc ANNOUCEMENT!
12:40 pmichaud "Christmas"
12:40 El_Che Christmas
12:40 masak_grr o.O
12:40 masak_grr five minutes into the future seems awesome...
12:40 tadzik I though he's going to say "I disappear", like Bilbo :P
12:40 masak_grr haha
12:40 timotimo christmas is going to be actual christmas this time?
12:41 tadzik in september:P
12:41 pmichaud "2015"
12:41 masak_grr o.O
12:41 [ptc] yay, Christmas in September :-)
12:41 timotimo well, we'll have a bit more time to work on stuff then
12:41 El_Che big applause
12:41 vendethiel did someone say september?
12:41 * vendethiel only sees 2015
12:41 pmichaud Yes, September.
12:41 tadzik Larry said about beta
12:41 masak_grr quick, grab him and drive him away in a black van!
12:41 El_Che ok, guys, stop chatting and go back to work ;)
12:41 [ptc] TimToady mentioned September earlier in the talk
12:41 pmichaud September is consistent with hallway discussions here
12:41 pmichaud "buses"
12:42 pmichaud "volunteers"
12:42 pmichaud "snapshot"
12:42 [ptc] hearing about Fib numbers still...
12:42 El_Che hey, guys, yoi have the right to die
12:42 El_Che according to larry about delays :)
12:42 masak_grr he's too kind
12:42 timotimo "I ha ... a ... a ... ve ... an ... an ... nn .. nn .. ounce ... ent ... lbo ... ys"
12:43 pmichaud "there can be only one"
12:43 [ptc] timotimo: are you using vlc for video?
12:43 timotimo no
12:43 tadzik ooooh
12:43 tadzik this is big
12:43 pmichaud moarvm: first among equals :)
12:43 masak_grr come on, stream!
12:43 timotimo tadzik: i hope you're talking about a cake
12:43 tadzik timotimo: no, big declarations
12:43 timotimo oh
12:43 timotimo like MY $foo?
12:44 * masak_grr caught the tail end of the applause
12:44 tadzik tl;dr it's okay to leave other VMs behind if they slow down progress
12:44 pmichaud "part way there on performance"
12:44 timotimo or SSUUBB foobar?
12:44 vendethiel the slides stream is totally dying on me
12:44 timotimo same here
12:44 pmichaud "6.0"
12:44 masak_grr o.O
12:45 pmichaud "-Ofun"
12:45 vendethiel alright, I guess I'll pass on being so happy with that amazing announcement, and watch the video at some point in the future :-à
12:45 vendethiel s/à/)/
12:45 pmichaud "coming of age"
12:45 timotimo i completely missed jnthn's talk, didn't i? it was yesterday, corrects
12:45 vendethiel timotimo: yes
12:46 vendethiel did miss it too, because the stream was really bad quality
12:46 vendethiel tadzik: I just got to that part, so -- how's the future?
12:46 timotimo did jnthn put up his slides yet?
12:46 pmichaud "GLR"
12:47 tadzik vendethiel: looking good, more details
12:47 timotimo yes GLR
12:47 masak_grr on twitter: "Larry Wall says Perl 6 will be released by Christmas - THIS Christmas. Taking bets."
12:47 pmichaud "NSA"
12:47 pmichaud There should be an under/over on that :)
12:47 pmichaud "NFG"
12:49 pmichaud "I FAIL GOOD"
12:49 masak_grr :)
12:49 timotimo oh, huh
12:49 timotimo i've always pronounced "preface" as "pre-face"
12:49 masak_grr timotimo: English is wonky.
12:49 [ptc] masak_grr: oh yes
12:50 timotimo i'm pretty hype for the GLR still
12:50 [ptc] man, the audio is waaay behind the slides
12:50 [ptc] my audio just got to NSA...
12:50 * [ptc] restarts
12:51 timotimo restarting many times didn't help me sync up slides and video at all :(
12:51 cdc we are still stuck 3 minutes in Larry's past :)
12:51 cdc *3 minutes back
12:52 El_Che He just announced that the september date was a joke and the release will be in april
12:52 El_Che (just kidding ;) )
12:52 timotimo oh che you so silly
12:52 [ptc] maybe the release should be at Easter - then it could be an Easter Egg
12:53 timotimo %)
12:53 timotimo i personally am not very interested in a fully perl6-bootstrapped rakudo
12:53 timotimo but since it'd have to mean our perl6 compilation has to be at least as efficient as the nqp compilation we have now ... that would be nice to me
12:54 pmichaud applause applause applause some standing o's
12:55 cdc "»ö« http://perl6.org"
12:55 cdc "NO SIGNAL"
12:55 cdc :D
12:55 timotimo »ö«
12:55 pmichaud yeah, I skipped the last slide.  :)
12:55 pmichaud EOT
12:55 cdc Thanks pmichaud++ !
12:55 masak_grr pmichaud++
12:55 [ptc] audio still coming through...
12:55 [ptc] pmichaud++
12:56 Ugator when will it be on youtube?
12:56 timotimo huh, it's suddenly over?
12:56 timotimo i just restarted mplayer so that i could listen better
12:56 timotimo turns out the hour is already over :o
12:57 timotimo signs of a good speaker, i suppose :3
12:57 btyler just ended a minute ago
12:57 timotimo there's a pretty person right in front of the camera
12:57 rurban I'm still at 52:40 in vlc
12:57 masak Ugator: that's a good question but not usually possible to answer with any certainty.
12:57 KPTN joined #perl6
12:58 btyler great talk, the message was just right. TimToady++
12:58 Ugator sure:) so no one here has the original recording?
12:58 rurban a fully perl6-bootstrapped rakudo would have a much easier to debug compiler
12:59 cdc Ugator: last year it took 5 to 10 days to get the recordings on http://video.fosdem.org
12:59 clement joined #perl6
13:00 jdv79 just ended here
13:00 jdv79 nice
13:02 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
13:03 masak we might need full Perl 6 bootstrapping for everything we want to do with macros. the jury is still out on that one.
13:04 arnsholt Would definitely make things easier, yeah
13:05 timotimo OK
13:05 masak right. same reasons 6model bootstraps, basic'ly.
13:05 arnsholt But I'd hope access to the compiler pipe-line will make most things possible
13:06 rindolf joined #perl6
13:06 masak that, too.
13:10 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
13:10 Kristien joined #perl6
13:12 Woodi_ it is a bit silly to stream slides :) but presenter uploading slides up fron is no-no too (ruined announcements...)  some html pages with PUSH button in front of presenter would be nice...
13:13 timotimo let's invent Yet Another Solution!
13:13 Woodi_ timotimo: yea ! :)
13:14 Kristien I like what InfoQ does with slides.
13:15 Kristien but those aren't livestreams
13:17 vendethiel Kristien: agreed.
13:22 moritz aye
13:22 masak I realize I haven't been to SlashDot for ages. but now I'm visiting the place just to see if the Perl 6 announcement will show up there.
13:22 timotimo do you really want to go to that place?
13:23 moritz it's just a bit rusty, otherwise not too bad
13:23 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
13:23 moritz ... until you read the comments :-)
13:23 timotimo i thought those sites were mostly about the comments ...
13:23 masak yes. I have enjoyed SlashDot quite a bit over the years. I seem to have fallen out of the habit, but I don't really see how it's worse then, say, reddit or HN.
13:23 masak even the comments are OK if you just stay above a certain score threshold.
13:24 timotimo HN is terrible, too :)
13:24 moritz http://science-beta.slashdot.org/sto​ry/15/02/01/0058237/physicists-make-​a-mobius-strip-from-beams-of-light was done a by good friend of mine, btw
13:24 timotimo reddit is a very mixed bag, depending on where you end up
13:24 moritz I mean the science, not the article
13:24 masak moritz: next up: Klein bottle from beams of light!
13:25 timotimo it took me quite a bit of restraint to not make that comment, moritz :)
13:25 masak moritz: (just take two Möbius strips made of light and glue them together)
13:25 moritz :-)
13:28 timotimo "light glue" is glue with reduced fat and sugar contents?
13:29 masak no, it's the cheerful version of dark glue
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13:38 nine I'm trying to embed libmoar, but I then get "Unhandled exception: failed to load library '/home/nine/install/rakudo/install/languages/​perl6/runtime/dynext/libperl6_ops_moar.so'". Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
13:38 masak m: class Foo { has Hash of Hash $.foo = {} }; Foo.new
13:38 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$!foo'; expected 'Hash[Hash]' but got 'Hash'␤  in block  at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1023␤  in method BUILDALL at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:978␤  in method bless at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:966␤  in method new at src/ge…»
13:39 * masak resolves #116212
13:39 * synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=116212
13:40 FROGGS nine: perhaps you have to preload that perl6_ops library
13:44 Colomon_ joined #perl6
13:45 Colomon_ So the tl;dr is September release, maybe just of moar?
13:46 FROGGS Colomon_: that seems to be the plan
13:46 tadzik it's possible
13:46 manav joined #perl6
13:46 nine September beta release, Christmas 6.0.0
13:48 masak what will 6.0.0 mean in practice? how will the world be different after that?
13:49 FROGGS masak: that depends on the reaction of the world I suppose
13:49 vendethiel masak: does the world need to be different?
13:49 vendethiel I'm fairly happy with the world in its current state (ok, I'm kidding)
13:49 FROGGS but, for us it means that we perhaps have to be more about backwards compatibility
13:49 masak vendethiel: it's an allowed answer to say "it won't be different"
13:49 vendethiel masak: I'm Mu-ing your question, asking why that question :P
13:50 brrt joined #perl6
13:50 masak yes, got it.
13:50 masak I'm pretty sure the difference for *me* will be fairly minimal, but only because I became an avid Perl 6 user long ago.
13:53 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
13:54 tadzik hmm, "Too few/many positionals passed" is an X::AdHoc. Unexpected
13:54 tadzik any reason why it doesn't have its type? moritz?
13:55 masak the answer is probably "patches welcome"
13:55 tadzik time to get to work then :)
13:55 grondilu joined #perl6
13:57 tadzik oh, it's at Moar level
13:57 grondilu jeez why such high resolution for the FOSDEM livestream.  I can't watch that properly on my machine :(
13:58 tadzik that probably makes it trickier
13:59 grondilu I mean 1920x1088 come on, there is no need for that many pixels.
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14:00 sjn \o
14:01 tadzik oh hai sjn
14:01 sjn tadzik: where's everyone hanging out, btw? :)
14:02 tadzik sjn: I'm in Jonsomething hall, on the typesetting talk
14:02 sjn aah
14:02 sjn Simon Cozen's thing
14:02 tadzik I thinkmost of the 6folks are here
14:02 tadzik yes
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14:14 vendethiel what's the current talk?
14:15 arnsholt nine: Regarding the so loading, basically what FROGGS said. You need to make sure the so file is in the search path of the dynamic linker when your app with the embedded moar runs
14:16 tadzik vendethiel: https://fosdem.org/2015/sche​dule/event/introducing_sile/
14:18 vendethiel thanks
14:19 sqirrel joined #perl6
14:19 nine One step further: /home/nine/install/rakudo/install/languages​/perl6/runtime/dynext/libperl6_ops_moar.so: undefined symbol: MVM_frame_inc_ref
14:21 grondilu ok it seems to work not too bad with a proper filter:  mplayer -vf scale=800:-2 http://stream-a.fosdem.org:80/janson_a.flv
14:23 arnsholt nine: When does that happen_
14:23 arnsholt s/_/?
14:23 * grondilu spoke too fast, increases cache
14:24 muraiki_ joined #perl6
14:26 nine Ok, If I LD_PRELOAD libmoar.so, it works. So I guess I have not made it sufficiently clear to Inline::C that I need to link libmoar.so
14:27 arnsholt Yeah. That's what the error message made me think as well
14:27 arnsholt Definitely looked like the moar lib wasn't loaded
14:33 zebardy joined #perl6
14:39 nine According to ldd, my .so is actually linked to libmoar.so:
14:39 nine ldd /home/nine/Inline-Perl6/_Inline/lib/​auto/Inline/Perl6_a71e/Perl6_a71e.so  linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007fffa751d000) libmoar.so => /home/nine/install/rakudo/install/lib/libmoar.so (0x00007f4b036c5000)
14:47 tadzik sjn: plans for the next talk?
14:47 FROGGS[mobile] what are we going to do now?
14:48 tadzik hallway track? :)
14:48 telex joined #perl6
14:48 tadzik K building is always fun
14:49 FROGGS[mobile] the booth, aye
14:55 nine jnthn: you around?
14:56 nine Does anyone know where I might find jnthn?
14:56 vendethiel nine: around FOSDEM? *g*
14:57 rurban1 joined #perl6
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14:58 Kristien does moarvm use a stock GC or a custom one?
14:58 gfldex custom
15:04 masak there are stock GCs? o.O
15:04 pmichaud nine:  jnthn is in the main talks room (sitting next to me)
15:05 rurban1 joined #perl6
15:05 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
15:06 skids left #perl6
15:08 Kristien masak: there is Boehm
15:09 masak ok, TIL
15:12 Woodi_ in September we can expect beta probably. but look what Perl6 did to spec and developmen time! imagine what could happen to the deadline date! ;)
15:12 masak I'm imaginig a buncha git commits
15:13 Woodi_ it's technical detail :)
15:13 Woodi_ but moar is embaddable ??
15:15 kjs_ joined #perl6
15:16 skids joined #perl6
15:20 grondilu ok, it's official:  the FOSDEM livestream sucks.
15:23 Arma joined #perl6
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15:24 rindolf joined #perl6
15:25 raiph joined #perl6
15:26 vendethiel :(
15:27 zakharyas joined #perl6
15:30 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
15:32 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
15:46 * [Tux] is back home, leont slept the complete journey :)
15:54 rindolf [Tux]: meow!
15:57 * skids wonders how long it takes a 3-liter bottle of cola to melt at room temperature.  And wants caffeine.
15:58 skids But if I open that bottle now, it will be nothing but foam and misery.
16:07 pierrot Good afternoon. Has TimToady's talk been uploaded somewhere ? I couldn't watch it this morning.
16:11 vendethiel pierrot: not yet. wait a few weeks
16:25 molaf joined #perl6
16:25 masak still nuthin' on Slashdot.
16:31 masak and here I was looking forward a bit to reading lame comments about DNF and the Hurd...
16:32 ugexe_ can i iterate over a parse-tree (of type NQPMatch) without parsing the entire thing as a string? For instance, if i wanted to look for every instance of (in its dumped form) `'sym: use' 'module_name: (.*?)'` (*realizes how helpful perl6 object introspection is*)
16:32 LLamaRider joined #perl6
16:34 masak ugexe: sounds like a job for a well-placed multi sub.
16:35 masak (a recursive one, that knows how to descend an NQPMatch)
16:44 ugexe hmm maybe im going about my goal the wrong way. for trying to extract dependencies of a script, does looking at the QAST make sense (so I dont have to rely on my own regex to parse source code)?
16:47 fil_ joined #perl6
16:47 fil_ hey
16:47 yoleaux 06:38Z <moritz> fil_: IMHO it's best practice to put each class that is publicly accessible into a separate class. As for rest, use your best judgement :-)
16:48 fil_ I'm using Padre to run my perl6 script.  But it's not finding my own modules in ./lib.  What's best practice around this stuff?
16:49 fil_ in Eclipse, there's a concept of a project that has a classpath.  Does Padre have anything like this?
16:49 ugexe use lib 'lib', or add -Ilib to its perl6 cmd line invocation
16:49 * ugexe doesnt use padre, i just assume you can change the perl6 target command
16:50 fil_ all the online modules stick their submodules in "lib."  I assumed this meant there is a convention on perl6 that lib is automatically added to @INC
16:50 espadrine_ joined #perl6
16:50 fil_ what IDE do you use?
16:50 ugexe no, what if you want to use the installed module?
16:50 ugexe i use sublime text
16:51 ugexe also what if you want to test blib and not lib
16:51 ugexe thats why you have to explicity include them
16:51 pierrot vendethiel: thanks
16:51 ugexe i.e. perl6 -Ilib t/00-basic.t
16:52 itz_ hmm warning to anyone just googling "La Bécasse" .. there are two and the correct one is by ULB
16:52 ugexe perl6 t/00basic.t would make any modules loaded by 00basic.t be from installed versions
16:54 anaeem1 joined #perl6
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17:13 skids r: role A does Positional { has @!children handles 'postcircumfix:<[ ]>'; }; my $tree = A.new; $tree[0] = 1; # RT#68138 code now golfs to this so it is no longer a parametric type problem.
17:13 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=68138
17:13 camelia rakudo-parrot 6e182d: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable value␤  in method assign_pos at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:2093␤  in method assign_pos at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:2084␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:3298␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at gen/parrot…»
17:13 camelia ..rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable A␤  in method assign_pos at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:2083␤  in sub postcircumfix:<[ ]> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3287␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
17:13 anaeem1 joined #perl6
17:15 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
17:15 hzhou321 Is there any one who do not like perl6's regex syntax as much as perl5's?
17:16 moritz hzhou321: with the number of people out there, I would be surprised if *everyone* liked the Perl 6 syntax better
17:16 skids hzhou321: not sure it is implemented yet, but yes.
17:17 FROGGS[mobile] hzhou321: unlikely... I mean, compare non-capturing groups, positive and negative lookahead of both
17:17 hzhou321 moritz: but I need to know whether it is my problem to conquer.
17:17 Bucciarati joined #perl6
17:17 FROGGS[mobile] m: say "foo" ~~ m:p5/foo/
17:17 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/_AgZtd5KvI�Adverb p5 not allowed on m�at /tmp/_AgZtd5KvI:1�------> [32msay "foo" ~~ m:p5/foo/[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m�»
17:18 FROGGS[mobile] grrr
17:18 moritz m: say 'foo' ~~ rx:Perl5/foo/
17:18 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«「foo」␤»
17:18 moritz m: say 'foo' ~~ m:Perl5/foo/
17:18 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«「foo」␤»
17:19 skids m: say "foo" ~~ m:P5/foo/
17:19 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«「foo」␤»
17:19 moritz hzhou321: if there is a problem, it's most likely yours to conquer, yes
17:19 skids That's what the spec says.
17:19 pmurias joined #perl6
17:19 FROGGS[mobile]2 joined #perl6
17:20 hzhou321 moritz: taking that answer, I wouldn't really have any self-esteem :)
17:20 pmurias is Perl 6 really planned for official release this christmas?
17:21 moritz pmurias: that's what TimToady said, yes
17:21 FROGGS[mobile]2 pmurias: don't has to be christmas, but yeah, this year
17:22 hzhou321 FROGGS: non-capturing groups, positive and negative lookahead is a bit awkard in perl 5, but on the other hand, they are not used often. And when they are used, they are often logically complex and it requires some comments anyway.
17:22 FROGGS[mobile]2 hzhou321: not so in P6
17:23 FROGGS[mobile]2 I use them more often, because I can easier do so
17:23 geekosaur I find I use non-capturing groups more often than captiring groups in p5
17:23 geekosaur but the syntax is awkward, which I am glad is fixed in p6
17:23 pmurias is it just an estimate when it will be decently usable or are there any more specific plan for achiving that?
17:23 hzhou321 So I gather that every one here all prefers perl6's regex syntax to perl5's?
17:24 geekosaur pretty much, yes
17:24 moritz hzhou321: it takes a while to get used to if you've done a lot of perl/pcre regex
17:24 moritz hzhou321: but it's totally worth it
17:24 geekosaur p5's regex syntax is based on the original regex syntax, which has been twisted well beyond what it was originally intended to do
17:24 geekosaur p6 reimagined regex syntax to be easier to understand and more convenient
17:24 moritz hzhou321: not just the syntax, but also the possibilities for modularization
17:25 geekosaur (perl isnt even the only thing that twistred the original regex syntax; traditional unix had a bunch of regex variants which POSIX boiled down to two main ones)
17:25 hzhou321 geekosaur: the original regex syntax is logically simple and I never need to re-learn even before Perl. Perl6's is like an new realm.
17:26 geekosaur um, you've never had BRE vs. ERE confusion?
17:26 pmurias hzhou321: yes, but it offer a bunch of possibilities
17:26 geekosaur never had to deal with variant regex implementations like p5 vs. PCRE?
17:26 hzhou321 geekosaur: I avoid them, and it works for me.
17:26 geekosaur you're very lucky if you can avoid them
17:27 masak mdk++ blogged: http://blogs.perl.org/users/shadowcat_md​k/2015/02/fosdem-2015-its-christmas.html
17:27 geekosaur I end up providing a lot of regex support, with BRE vs. ERE and PCRE vs. ERE vs. other variants, on some other channels
17:27 hzhou321 I use m/.../gcx a lot for complicated cases when full parsing is required
17:27 masak and we have HN comments (currently empty): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8980387
17:28 geekosaur maybe you can just decree that everything shall be done in perl5 past some particular version that guarantees the existence of certain features. most people don't have that luxury
17:28 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
17:28 geekosaur and, frankly, old style regex is a cesspool
17:28 geekosaur long past time someone dumped chlorine in it
17:29 jdv79 Perl6 v1.0 - nice.  how about 6.0 or 6.0.0 like in reality.
17:30 FROGGS[mobile] that's what I'd like to call it too
17:31 fil_ I'm just about ready to give up on perl6
17:31 fil_ Soooo disappointed
17:31 jdv79 you might be in the wrong chan then;)
17:31 fil_ For me the nail in the coffin is no IDE that lets me run tests
17:31 fil_ That's a showstopper
17:32 jdv79 that's a lame reason but ok
17:32 * geekosaur generally thinks need for an IDE is a language smell
17:33 hzhou321 I agree with geekosaur. But with perl, you can whip up quick automation easily anyway.
17:33 fil_ I'm a hardcore perl fanboy.  I helped put one of the first newspapers of record in the world on the Internet using perl.  perl's recent assension on the TIOBE index got my hopes up.  But the tooling just isn't there.
17:33 Kristien geekosaur: http://youtu.be/LH75sJAR0hc?t=10m12s
17:34 jdv79 fil_: maybe you could pen a ticket or an article or a blog post
17:34 jdv79 someone might be able to look into it eventually
17:34 hzhou321 Kristien: I like this guy :)
17:34 geekosaur I will also note that if your criteria for a successful language include maturw tooling out of the box, then you will never be able to adopt any new language or technology
17:34 Kristien yeah he's incredibly funny
17:35 fil_ Mature tooling is a sign of language adoption.
17:35 geekosaur and the world will leave you behind, safely boxed in by your ancient tooling
17:35 geekosaur that's still an impossible loop
17:35 fil_ Lack of tooling tells me that nobody except a few old vim hardcores is actually using perl6 for meaningful work.
17:35 geekosaur it has to be adopted in order for it to ever be adopted?
17:36 Kristien there are still languages that are widely adopted and still have no decent tooling whatsoever
17:36 pmurias Kristien: listening to that guy for me is more annoying than tracking down segfaults in generated code
17:36 jdv79 that might be true cause its not mature yet
17:36 geekosaur again, this leads to never being able to adopt anything new
17:36 jdv79 but you could help by enumerating exactly what you might like to have
17:36 fil_ Maybe it's just too early.  I was under the impression that perl6 has been out for a while.
17:36 geekosaur uh, no
17:37 pmurias fil_: not in a useful form
17:37 geekosaur there is no formal release yet, we're hoping for one sometime this year
17:37 fil_ oh ok
17:37 fil_ well my criticism is premature then
17:37 fil_ I'll check back in a couple of years.
17:37 fil_ I need a tool I can use today.
17:37 geekosaur there are prereleases of various kinds, which one can typically expect to be played with by some folks but nobody's going to do anything serious with them
17:37 fil_ The Grammar / Actions stuff is amazing!
17:37 jdv79 yeah, didn't you hear?  the attempt is for 6.0 release on 2015-12-25:)
17:37 pmurias but currently in terms of tooling we are not yet on 5.0.0 level
17:38 xinming joined #perl6
17:38 pmurias as writing Makefiles by hand is required :(
17:38 muraiki_ elixir has some incredible tooling for a new languge
17:38 fil_ I'm used to my IDE managing build paths, running tests etc.
17:39 fil_ Does perl6 even have a concept of a project?  Is there an equivalent of a "pom" file for perl6?
17:39 geekosaur indeed, a formal release will make better tooling *possible* because there will finally be something that isn't likely to change radically at the drop of a hat
17:39 geekosaur (we still have the GLR pending, right?)
17:39 jdv79 yes
17:39 jdv79 pmichaud said he'll shoot for march
17:39 fil_ While I'm waiting for an IDE, how should I run my tests?
17:39 moritz ufo && make test
17:39 fil_ Does everyone just run their tests commandline?
17:39 Kristien pmurias: I don't have that problem, since I don't have segfaults.
17:40 moritz https://github.com/masak/ufo/
17:40 ugexe prove -e 'perl6 -Ilib' t/ or just 'perl6 -Ilib t/file.t'
17:40 * masak confesses that he does not use ufo much these days
17:41 moritz PERL6LIB=lib prove -e perl6
17:41 jdv79 masak: what do you use?
17:41 moritz PERL6LIB=lib prove -e perl6 t/
17:41 masak I used it when compilation times were a big problem, and figuring out the compilation order mattered to bring the time down.
17:41 masak jdv79: I use `prove -e 'perl6 -Ilib' -r`
17:42 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
17:42 * masak should make a one-letter alias for that
17:43 pmurias masak: ufo figures out in which order it should do precompilation?
17:43 masak yes, that was its core feature once upon a time.
17:43 moritz it doesn't anymore, though
17:43 moritz it merely extracts dependencies
17:44 moritz and lets 'make' figure out the order
17:44 pmurias hopefull automatic precompilation is a part of 6.0.0 requirements
17:44 fil_ t\FormatQFX.t .. ''perl6' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
17:44 fil_ when I run prove -e 'perl6 -Ilib' t/
17:44 masak works here.
17:44 pmurias do you have perl6 installed?
17:45 moritz fil_: seems your perl6 is either not installed, or not in $PATH/%PATH
17:46 fil_ perl6 works commandline
17:47 fil_ it's installed
17:47 fil_ damn gtg
17:47 fil_ thanks for your help!
17:47 ugexe try double quotes depending on your OS
17:47 moritz or if you don't run it through the shell, make sure that your launcher has the same environment as the shell
17:49 moritz tadzik: most binder errors are X::AdHoc because the binders are backend specific, and thus hard / much work to port to typed exception
17:52 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
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17:57 vendethiel hzhou321: coming in a bit late, if I had to choose, the simple fact that grammars exist would sell me on p6's syntax
17:57 vendethiel I admit I don't know p5's regexes, I only know "PCRE" (the subset that every language, or almost, has, but often means no named captures (though ruby has them, yay))
17:57 * vendethiel saw a talk at fpw14 about those and was impressed, but scared at the same time
17:58 Kristien PCRE is good.
17:59 rurban no named captures and unicode names, but it is jitted
18:02 jdv79 reaaly?  i've generally found the recent p5 re engine very fast
18:02 alinbsp joined #perl6
18:02 jdv79 just mean i'm not sure jitting that would make much difference; to the cases i've seen
18:03 Vlavv_ joined #perl6
18:03 Kristien But PCRE has support for Unicode right?
18:03 Kristien I will most likely use it soon.
18:04 andreoss joined #perl6
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18:17 prime joined #perl6
18:18 rurban Sure
18:19 rurban UTF-8/16/32 encodings and  Unicode general  category  properties, However not our name aliases
18:19 rurban It also contains a faster non-backref matcher (as in re2)
18:21 masak inspired by Russ Cox's article?
18:21 fil_ ugexe: thanks you were right, it was the quotes
18:22 masak http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html
18:22 rurban probably. he was not the first, but the most prominent
18:23 rurban and perl5 still has no simple backref detector to fallback to the faster version
18:25 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
18:28 Kristien rurban: nice
18:36 fil_ How do I get Grammar.parsefile to use relative paths?  It only ever works with absolute paths on filenames
18:40 Kristien make the path absolute
18:43 fil_ If i publish a module, I can't use absolute paths
18:43 fil_ all the online examples use relative paths
18:43 fil_ there must be some way to get perl6 to know where you are
18:43 moritz fil_: it works on relative paths, relative to the current working directory
18:43 moritz m: say $*CWD
18:43 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia".IO␤»
18:43 flussence std: sub foo(Pair (:key($a), :value($b))) { say $a + $b } # Are any of these parens removable? Code works but it looks icky...
18:44 camelia std f9b7f55: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 142m␤»
18:45 moritz m: grammar A { token TOP { (. ** 10) .*? } }; say ~A.parsefile('evalbot.log')[0]
18:45 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value $v of type Any in string context  in block <unit> at /tmp/OrS_EGaU1L:1␤␤␤»
18:45 fil_ got it.  just realized that cwd is parent of t/ when running tests
18:45 vendethiel fil_: cwd is "where you ran the command", usually :o)
18:46 moritz ... unless somebody chdir()ed or assigned to $*CWD
18:46 flussence fil_: if you want to know where your module is, use $?FILE
18:46 moritz m: say $?FILE
18:46 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«/tmp/8Z_xUrlJMN␤»
18:49 _dolmen_ joined #perl6
18:53 fil_ nice.  I like $?FILE much better.  thanks!
18:55 Kristien m: say say.WHAT
18:55 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/0sSacchkfa�Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument�at /tmp/0sSacchkfa:1�------> [32msay say[33m�[31m.WHAT[0m� …»
18:58 raydiak std: sub foo(Pair (:$key, :$value)) { say $key + $value } # flussence: if you can rename $a and $b, this is somewhat more readable
18:58 camelia std f9b7f55: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 142m␤»
18:58 raydiak good morning #perl6
19:00 fil_ can perl6 classes have private methods?
19:00 raydiak fil_: yes, just start the method name with a !
19:01 fil_ thanks.  that should probably be mentioned on http://doc.perl6.org/language/classtut
19:05 raydiak it's at https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob​/master/lib/Language/classtut.pod if you want to help us improve it, or even just file issues
19:10 raydiak m: say say('').WHAT; say &say.WHAT
19:10 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«␤(Bool)␤(Sub)␤»
19:11 Kristien :O
19:12 masak "From the bottom of my heart, thank you. I have been keenly looking forward to this for a long, long time." -- http://blogs.perl.org/users/shadowcat_mdk/2015/0​2/fosdem-2015-its-christmas.html#comment-1536111
19:13 colomon joined #perl6
19:18 * masak <3 .classify
19:18 Mouq joined #perl6
19:18 colomon masak wants to classify things less than 3?
19:19 * masak 😻 .classify
19:20 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
19:20 flussence .oO( my terminal emulator doesn't support cat :( )
19:21 vendethiel .oO( but does it support 😻 ? )
19:24 Kristien m: '😻'.classify.say
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'classify'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Any $: Any $test, *%_)␤:(Any $: Any $test, Any :into($into)!, *%_)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Jtb5GTs13y:1␤␤»
19:24 masak m: say {}.perl
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«{}␤»
19:24 Kristien m: '😻'.perl.say
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«"😻"␤»
19:24 masak m: say (1, 2, 3).classify(+*)
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«1 => 1, 2 => 2, 3 => 3␤»
19:24 Kristien m: say {}.WHAT
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«(Hash)␤»
19:24 masak m: say (1, 2, 3).classify(+*).perl
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«Hash[Any,Any].new(1 => [1], 3 => [3], 2 => [2])␤»
19:24 Kristien How do you make the empty block?
19:24 Kristien m: say ->{}.WHAT
19:24 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«(Block)␤»
19:25 raydiak m: say {;}.WHAT # probably works too
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«(Block)␤»
19:27 Kristien m: say { Nil }.WHAT
19:27 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«(Block)␤»
19:27 masak why do we prefer `Hash[Any,Any].new(1 => [1], 3 => [3], 2 => [2])` in .perl over `{ 1 => [1], 3 => [3], 2 => [2] }` ?
19:27 Kristien m: say (->{})().perl; say ({ Nil })().perl
19:27 masak something to do with item context?
19:27 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«Nil␤Nil␤»
19:29 raydiak well, a hash literal from  { ... } isn't a Hash[Any,Any], is it?  Hash[Str,Any], I thought
19:29 masak hm, wait. Hash[Any,Any] isn't the default. Hash[Str,Any] is.
19:29 masak raydiak: right.
19:29 masak just realized.
19:29 raydiak maybe it should do :{ ... } instead?
19:29 raydiak in the specific case of [Any,Any], of course
19:29 Kristien maybe it complicates nesting in other .perl methods from other types
19:31 raydiak m: say :{ 1 => 2 }.perl
19:31 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«:{1 => 2}␤»
19:31 raydiak hm
19:32 kjs_ joined #perl6
19:32 masak m: sub &foo() {}; say "alive"
19:32 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/GE7JBiJGWPâ�¤Missing blockâ�¤at /tmp/GE7JBiJGWP:1â�¤------> [32msub [33mâ��[31m&foo() {}; say "alive"[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        new name to be definedâ�¤Â»
19:32 masak (a) I'm wondering if this shouldn't be allowed, and mean the same as `sub foo`
19:33 masak (b) the error message is LTA, but I don't have any good ideas for what it ought to be
19:33 gfldex joined #perl6
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19:40 raydiak wrt (b), maybe "invalid sub name" or "invalid character in sub name" or along those lines? perhaps additionally a specific mention of no leading '&' if that's the first char it saw in the name?
19:40 raydiak I guess it'll be the same message we see when botching the body of an anonymous sub too, though...
19:41 * raydiak wouldn't mind allowing a leading &, either, but the message will still be LTA in other cases
19:44 colomon joined #perl6
19:45 masak troo
19:45 * masak submits rakudobug
19:46 Kristien I never understood typeglobs and file handles in Perl 5.
19:46 Kristien They seem obscure.
19:47 geekosaur they are obscure. worse, they're kinda retrospectively imposing a story on top of what was originally just syntax
19:48 masak there's a reason nobody suggested having typeglobs in Perl 6 ;)
19:48 Kristien masak: let's change that!
19:48 geekosaur (perl3.000 had filehandles, but typeglobs were grafted in later)
19:48 Kristien How about we add typeglobs to Perl 6?
19:49 geekosaur let's not and say we did (p6 has more principled ways of doing it instead of abusing existing dubious syntax)
19:50 * masak doesn't feel particularly compelled to repeat the typeglobs lesson in Perl 6
19:50 fil_ how do I get the type of an object?
19:50 masak m: say 42.WHAT
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
19:50 masak m: 42.^name
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: ( no output )
19:50 masak m: say 42.^name
19:50 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«Int␤»
19:51 masak fil_: either of those ways.
19:51 fil_ I tried WHAT and got Cannot look up attributes in a type object
19:51 masak fil_: the .WHAT is actually not a string, but an object representing the type which stringifies to "(<type>)"
19:51 masak fil_: then you did something other than print it
19:51 _mg_ Hello all! I'm new here. Heard Larry today on FOSDEM, and Perl6 talks yesterday. Now I need to find my way to Perl6. :D I'll start by updating the homebrew formula (Mac OS) to the latest rakudo release (https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/pull/36437).
19:51 fil_ ^name worked.  thanks
19:52 masak _mg_: welcome ;)
19:52 masak _mg_: that sounds awesome \o/
19:52 _mg_ masak: thanks!
19:52 geekosaur didn't someone say the other day that the homebrew formula was out of date?
19:53 masak probably, but also probably no-one did anything about it.
19:53 masak _mg_++
19:54 _mg_ With that a "brew install rakudo-star" is all you need to get it running on Mac OS.
19:55 raydiak methinks we just pointed the person the other day at rakudobrew
19:56 Mouq _mg_++: It looks like that only knows about jvm and parrot, and builds parrot by default
19:56 masak ugh.
19:56 masak build moar by default, please!
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20:00 masak an I the only one who finds it confusing to talk about "Perl 6 v1.0" ?
20:01 vendethiel masak: no, I agree
20:01 _mg_ masak: ok I'll try
20:03 raydiak agreed, 6.0 or 6.0.0 is much much better imo
20:03 b2gills There has been talk of calling the latest release of Perl 5 "Perl 5 version 20"
20:04 masak I mean, I can see where those people are coming from, making the "6" just part of the name.
20:04 masak but it'll be even more confusing as we get to Perl 6.1
20:04 masak what'd that be, version 1.1 of Perl 6?
20:05 moritz version 0.1 of Perl 6 :-)
20:06 masak moritz: so we go from v1.0 to v0.1? no thanks...
20:06 masak (I'm speaking purely hypothetically, by the way. I don't believe we should encourage this versioning at all.)
20:06 b2gills It's about like talking about the first annual ___.
20:07 masak I think we should be very clear that the version being released is called Perl 6.0.0
20:07 huf b2gills: it's not just talk, perl -v reports itself like that
20:07 huf i dont think that's a new thing
20:07 bcode joined #perl6
20:07 * raydiak braces for more rounds of "you shouldn't have called it Perl 6" from outside the echo chamber as the year passes and release gets closer :P
20:07 b2gills huf: I didn't realize they had actually made that change
20:07 masak m: say "A B" ~~ /A B/
20:07 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
20:07 masak m: say "A B" ~~ /:s A B/
20:07 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«「A B」␤»
20:10 pmurias Perl6 v1.1 seems both descriptive and rather silly
20:10 kjs_ joined #perl6
20:10 masak m: "A, B, C" ~~ /(\w)* % ', '/; say $0.list.perl
20:10 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«Array.new(Match.new(orig => "A, B, C", from => 0, to => 1, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "A, B, C", from => 3, to => 4, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "A, B, C", from => 6, to…»
20:10 masak m: "A, B, C" ~~ /(\w)* % ', '/; say ~>>$0
20:10 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/f4_tR8JOQM�Preceding context expects a term, but found infix ~> instead�at /tmp/f4_tR8JOQM:1�------> [32m"A, B, C" ~~ /(\w)* % ', '/; say ~>[33m�[31m>$0[0m�»
20:10 masak m: "A, B, C" ~~ /(\w)* % ', '/; say ~<<$0
20:11 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«A B C␤»
20:11 masak m: "A, B, C" ~~ /(\w*) % ', '/; say ~<<$0
20:11 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/htQFolDBz4�Missing quantifier on the left argument of %�at /tmp/htQFolDBz4:1�------> [32m"A, B, C" ~~ /(\w*) %[33m�[31m ', '/; say ~<<$0[0m�»
20:11 masak I expected those last two to be identical.
20:11 masak usually it doesn't matter if I put the quantifier inside the parens, or outside.
20:13 masak m: "ABC" ~~ /(\w)*/; say ~<<$0
20:13 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«A B C␤»
20:13 masak m: "ABC" ~~ /(\w*)/; say ~<<$0
20:13 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«ABC␤»
20:13 masak hrm :)
20:14 masak ...never mind :)
20:15 b2gills I think of % as being a modifier on * and +
20:19 * vendethiel the same
20:19 Mouq b2gills: So does the parser :9
20:21 beastd joined #perl6
20:21 pmurias masak: did TimToady call planned "big release" Perl 6.0.0 v1.0?
20:22 Kristien joined #perl6
20:22 Kristien hi
20:22 pmurias masak: a big problem with Perl 6.0.0 is what is the one before that?
20:22 pmurias masak: Perl 5.9.0 already exists
20:23 pmurias masak: with Perl6 v1.0 we could have Perl6 v0.9
20:23 moritz fwiw debian version numbers use ~ to mean "slightly less than"
20:24 moritz so a 6.0.0~0.1 would be smaller than 6.0.0
20:24 moritz though I'd propose we call it "Perl 6 2014.12"
20:24 jack_rabbit joined #perl6
20:25 moritz and avoid haggling about the exact digits and semantics
20:27 colomon perhaps 2015.12  ?
20:27 colomon ;)
20:27 moritz erm, yes. Still getting used to the 2015 thingy.
20:28 araujo joined #perl6
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20:29 masak pmurias: TimToady hasn't been using v1.0 to my knowledge. I think it was mdk's wording in his blog post.
20:30 masak pmurias: I have never and will never spell Perl 6 "Perl6".
20:30 raiph joined #perl6
20:30 Kristien joined #perl6
20:31 b2gills pmurias: with the way Perl5 handles versions the version before 6 would be 5.999.999
20:33 Kristien I find * vs $_ confusing.
20:34 bjz joined #perl6
20:35 * Mouq .oO( PerlAmpersandEnBeEsPeeSix )
20:37 masak Kristien: matter of habit, I believe.
20:37 pmurias masak: were you at FOSDEM?
20:37 dalek doc: 54d8707 | moritz++ | lib/Language/functions.pod:
20:37 dalek doc: Write introduction to functions.pod
20:37 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/54d8707e5a
20:37 masak Kristien: I use both, frequently, and without confusion.
20:37 masak pmurias: no :/
20:38 Kristien masak: yeah, but you are competent!
20:38 moritz well, it took me a few years to avoid too much confusion between 5 and 6
20:38 masak pmurias: I am carrying around a currently inconsolable 3wo boy.
20:38 masak Kristien: I believe competence, at least most of the time, is a prerequisite for programming.
20:38 Kristien Me too.
20:39 * moritz just managed his one commit per day to perl6/doc
20:40 pmurias anyway wasn't Perl 6.0.0 supposed to refer to the spec version?
20:40 pmurias so it should be Rakudo 1.0
20:41 moritz pmurias: I'm pretty sure rakudo will keep up its monthly release cycle and version scheme
20:41 moritz 1.0 < 2015.01
20:41 moritz pmurias: also, larry mentioned that the version will primarily refer to the test suite, and the design documents count as accompanying material
20:42 moritz pmurias: and that the idea is to snapshot the passing tests, and declare them (plus the compiler passing them) as 6.0
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20:49 nlfly joined #perl6
20:49 nlfly Hi guys
20:49 raydiak \o nlfly
20:49 nlfly can you help to understand the 'winner' keyword?
20:50 nlfly winner * {more @channels ... }
20:50 nlfly how exactly does it work? where do the threads come in?
20:51 raiph first, it's been renamed to "earliest"
20:51 raiph second, does that clear it up? :)
20:52 zakharyas joined #perl6
20:52 _mg_ masak, Mouq: https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew/pull/36439. This builds moar by default, and parrot is now optional.
20:53 raiph moritz: would it be reasonable for me to do `sudo apt-get install libperl-dev` logged in as me on hack?
20:53 masak \o/
20:53 bjz joined #perl6
20:53 nlfly it is winner in the test suite, and earliest does not compile
20:53 [Sno] joined #perl6
20:53 raydiak then you have an old rakudo
20:53 nlfly anyway: if i've got two channels,
20:54 nlfly i have latest rakudo star
20:54 nlfly anyway,
20:54 nlfly two channels. how can i write independently in two threads and read in another one?
20:55 raiph .ask moritz: I'd like to use Inline::Perl5 and modules from CPAN on hack; seems I need to do `sudo apt-get install libperl-dev`; would that be reasonable?
20:55 yoleaux raiph: What kind of a name is "moritz:"?!
20:55 raiph .ask moritz I'd like to use Inline::Perl5 and modules from CPAN on hack; seems I need to do `sudo apt-get install libperl-dev`; would that be reasonable?
20:55 yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to moritz.
20:55 kaare_ joined #perl6
20:58 Kristien joined #perl6
20:59 raiph .tell nine http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comme​nts/2ubs24/transcript_of_todays_fo​sdem_talk_leapfrogging_the/co7sa9y
20:59 yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to nine.
20:59 dalek roast: 4d0d32b | usev6++ | S02-types/built-in.t:
20:59 dalek roast: Add test for RT #122094
20:59 dalek roast: (this creates a new file in S02-types)
20:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4d0d32b2b3
20:59 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=122094
21:00 raydiak nlfly: Channel is thread-safe, so .send and .receive/.poll should do it. for reading from more than one channel easily, you'll likely want earliest (which is called "winner" in your version, but will be documented as "earliest" on the web, which is current)
21:01 Mouq _mg_++ :D
21:02 _mg_ I still have problems with the shebang line, for example when I run panda
21:04 dalek roast: 6a639ce | usev6++ | S02-types/built-in.t:
21:04 dalek roast: Fix syntax for ticket number
21:04 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6a639cef47
21:04 pmurias raiph: and the first comment is wrong ;)
21:05 raydiak nlfly: btw have you already looked over S17?
21:05 raiph pmurias: audioen's comment?
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21:13 raydiak after working with nativecall a bit, seems like I should have wrapped libpng and bundled a dll with it, instead of sloppily re-implementing a minscule portion of it in P6 for Image::PNG::Portable :P
21:13 raydiak *miniscule
21:14 nlfly how to create threads then? :-)
21:14 masak raydiak: not too late for that ;)
21:14 pmurias raiph: yes, that's simply not true
21:15 vendethiel we need a C2P6
21:15 vendethiel :P
21:15 Kristien I just found this: http://search.cpan.org/~ether/Tas​k-Kensho-0.38/lib/Task/Kensho.pm
21:16 Mouq nlfly: What's your perl6 -v ? That might be why earliest isn't working
21:16 pmurias C2P6?
21:16 nlfly This is perl6 version 2014.09 built on MoarVM version 2014.09
21:16 masak ooh, Task::Kensho is actually a pretty interesting target for Perl 6 compatibility.
21:16 masak now there's a talk all in itself.
21:16 nlfly aha, not the latest star as i thought
21:16 Mouq nlfly: And you might want to look at the "start" keywork
21:16 Mouq *keyword
21:17 nlfly Mouq: cool, thanks, i forgot about that word
21:18 raiph pmurias: I wanted to post working code that demonstrated (s)he was wrong but I'm waiting for an answer from moritz to my question ^^ a few minutes ago
21:19 raiph pmurias: and I'd much rather see an answer by nine
21:19 raydiak masak: true enough :) guess I'll chalk that one up to practice...just wondering if there is anything useful I could still squeeze out of it, but I really can't think of much, unless I wanted to make it pure perl by reimplementing zlib too heh
21:19 nlfly yes, with 2014.12 earliest works
21:22 * colomon has somehow lost his p6 script to convert a git log —status file to a rough changelog.
21:24 * colomon searched for five minutes and finally found it 10 seconds after writing that.
21:25 masak colomon: remember, it's always in the *last* place you look! :P
21:26 * colomon doesn’t actually remember how to use it, either
21:28 * raydiak used to use a trick when waiting for rakudo to compile, where whining about it manipulates it into finishing right then and proving him wrong :)
21:30 colomon “Saw 2 calls to deprecated code during execution.”  apparently it needs some patching, too
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22:00 moritz raiph: libperl-dev installed
22:00 yoleaux 20:55Z <raiph> moritz: I'd like to use Inline::Perl5 and modules from CPAN on hack; seems I need to do `sudo apt-get install libperl-dev`; would that be reasonable?
22:01 raydiak perlbrew doesn't allow that?
22:04 skids m: say Grammar.^methods>>.name
22:04 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«parse subparse parsefile MATCH MATCH_SAVE INTERPOLATE DYNQUANT_LIMITS OTHERGRAMMAR INDRULE RECURSE orig target from pos prune CAPHASH !cursor_init !cursor_start_all !cursor_start !cursor_start_cur !cursor_start_fail !cursor_start_subcapture !cursor_capture…»
22:04 skids m: say Grammar.^methods
22:04 camelia rakudo-moar 6e182d: OUTPUT«No such method 'gist' for invocant of type 'NQPRoutine'␤  in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:8557␤  in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:17341␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/KV8yXwsB5h:1␤␤»
22:04 moritz raydiak: I'm pretty sure it does
22:04 skids I think that's just a matter of adding a .Str to NQPRoutine knowhow?
22:05 moritz gist
22:05 moritz though a more complete solution would fake the complete type Mu
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22:14 raiph moritz++ # :) gracious hosting
22:18 nine Oh the horrors, the abuse, the hackery. But I made it. I can embed MoarVM in Perl 5 and call into Perl 6 code :)
22:18 yoleaux 20:59Z <raiph> nine: http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comme​nts/2ubs24/transcript_of_todays_fo​sdem_talk_leapfrogging_the/co7sa9y
22:19 colomon nine++
22:20 nine raiph: that's true. But it's also quite possible to not copy hashes and arrays. Copying was just quicker to implement and there are probably not many useful APIs that need modifications of arguments.
22:23 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 17 commits to rakudo/birdless by moritz
22:23 masak surprisingly positive comments at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8980387
22:23 brrt joined #perl6
22:24 brrt masak: yes, except for chromatic for some reason
22:24 masak a lot of people are already getting entangled in the whole "v1.0" thing, though.
22:24 masak brrt: "for some reason"?
22:24 masak brrt: you must be new here. ;)
22:24 brrt i'm new enough not to know the reason
22:24 masak right.
22:24 brrt and honestly i don't care
22:24 colomon rakudo/birdless ?
22:24 masak it'd be a mistake to dismiss chromatic entirely.
22:25 brrt that's not what i'm saying
22:25 masak please read him for one of the most insightful critiques of the Perl 6 community.
22:25 masak at least if you can stomach his way of expressing it without burning out.
22:25 brrt what i'm saying is that i don't care about the reason of the bitterness
22:25 masak (which I can on some days)
22:25 moritz colomon: an experimental branch to see what happened if we dropped parrot support from rakudo
22:25 masak brrt: I understand.
22:25 moritz $ git diff --shortstat nom...birdless 73 files changed, 87 insertions(+), 6926 deletions(-)
22:26 colomon !!
22:26 masak moritz: is that... Rakudo sans Parrot?
22:27 brrt :-)
22:27 moritz masak: yes, though quite some docs still aren't adapted in that branch
22:27 pmurias masak: re Perl6 v1.0, that's the price for doing the annoucement only in talk form
22:27 masak moritz: we waste 7kLOC on Parrot support?
22:27 dalek nqp-js: f71a04a | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/bin/run_tests:
22:27 dalek nqp-js: Add passing test 47 to run_tests.
22:27 dalek nqp-js: review: https://github.com/pmurias​/nqp-js/commit/f71a04ae44
22:27 masak pmurias: I believe you're right.
22:28 masak pmurias: mdk basically got to pick the terms as he saw fit.
22:29 pmurias I didn't see that TimToady talk
22:30 moritz can somebody please reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8981931 and say they should join #moarvm?
22:30 colomon on it
22:30 moritz I've reached my limit of allowed replies per time unit on hackernews, it seems
22:30 colomon that’s on freenode?
22:30 moritz yes
22:30 masak yes.
22:30 masak moritz++ # replying to the hilt!
22:31 pmurias maybe you need moritz_sockpuppet?
22:31 colomon moritz: just replied, let me know if you’d like me to tweak it.
22:33 hoelzro o/ #perl6
22:34 brrt left #perl6
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22:51 moritz colomon++
22:54 moritz time for sleep here&
22:57 raiph joined #perl6
22:58 El_Che fosdem perl pictures: http://imgur.com/a/1ynV7#0
23:00 dalek ecosystem: e1cd2fd | Mouq++ | META.list:
23:00 dalek ecosystem: Add TOML to the ecosystem
23:00 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/e1cd2fd9ac
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23:29 * raydiak notices that rakudo and moar are in their own organizations but any of us is allowed to break nqp :)
23:34 japhb Besides TimToady++'s talk, any other cool announcements and/or "Just One More Thing"s out of FOSDEM?  I saw the link to nine++'s talk slides (I *love* that he included complete notes); any others posted?
23:35 timotimo jnthn didn't update his "talks" page yet; it still says "i'll be talking at the apw2014, topic TBA"
23:35 timotimo i was hoping i could find his slides soon-ish :)
23:36 japhb Ditto.  I become the biggest fanboy nudge after his talks, asking for posted slides.  :-)
23:42 timotimo o/
23:48 skids joined #perl6
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23:59 masak jnthn's slides are of consistently high quality. and they stand quite well on their own, in most cases.

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