Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-02-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 ingy Util: that reminds me, I need to cron the daily extraction of RosettaCodeData.git
00:01 ingy Util: do you have any time at the moment?
00:02 raiph joined #perl6
00:02 Util ingy: Heading out with family; I will be around most of tomorrow, except 10:30-13:00 Central. Want to set a time?
00:03 ingy what time do you start your day?
00:04 ingy I can start at 7am PST generally
00:04 Util ingy: I will be on at that time.
00:05 ingy ok ping me :)
00:05 Util Will do
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00:18 [Coke] I agree with Util. By the time that happened, tuits were in shorter supply.
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02:41 dalek roast: aa5202f | TimToady++ | S32-num/base.t:
02:41 dalek roast: explicit digits should produce trailing 0s
02:41 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/aa5202f6e2
02:42 dalek rakudo/nom: dae3f20 | TimToady++ | src/core/R (2 files):
02:47 dalek rakudo/nom: explicit digits should produce trailing 0s
02:47 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dae3f20dac
02:47 TimToady oh, and b2gills++ for spotting that
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02:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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05:54 TimToady Util: one other problem is that some of the RC entries have to run for an hour or two to produce their output, so you might need tweaks that shrink the problem attempted
05:55 TimToady or plan to burn a lot of CPU running one pass of tests
05:56 TimToady some things run a lot faster these days, of course, but some of the problems are just NP-completish
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07:30 FROGGS_ lizmat: parrot-7.0.1 fails to build on windows... trying 7.1.0 now (the release from tuesday)
07:30 yoleaux 16 Feb 2015 23:19Z <lizmat> FROGGS_: alas, still the same errors  :-(
07:31 FROGGS_ lizmat: I can't even configure 7.1.0 >.<
07:32 FROGGS_ trying 7.0.2 now...
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07:33 FROGGS_ lizmat: 7.0.2 also fails :o(
07:33 FROGGS_ auto::sizes -         Determine some sizes...Der Befehl ".\test_1812.exe" ist entweder falsch geschrieben oder
07:33 FROGGS_ konnte nicht gefunden werden.
07:33 FROGGS_ so... that's it for parrot?
07:33 FROGGS_ bbiab
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08:13 Ven o/, #perl6
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08:34 nwc10 FROGGS: IIRC there was a 7.0.2 of parrot
08:34 nwc10 good UHT, #perl6 :-)
08:36 FROGGS nwc10: aye: <FROGGS_> lizmat: 7.0.2 also fails :o(
08:36 nwc10 oh, oops. I missed that.
08:36 FROGGS yeah...
08:36 FROGGS dunno what to do now
08:37 FROGGS maybe we can patch 7.1.0 locally, just to be able to provide a star.msi later
08:42 lizmat good *, #perl6!
08:42 lizmat yes, parrot not building on Win definitely throws a spanner in the works
08:42 lizmat otoh, nobody has seemed to notice that breakage until now  :-(
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08:59 dalek rakudo/nom: 33c137f | lizmat++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
08:59 dalek rakudo/nom: Volunteer FROGGS for the March release  :-)
08:59 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/33c137f701
09:01 lizmat FROGGS: perhaps we need to fall back to an earlier parrot on Win ?
09:03 jnthn lizmat: http://www.moarvm.org/ now has the 2015.02 release in place; timotimo++ for making it :)
09:03 lizmat jnthn: cool
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09:04 dalek nqp: 2eee369 | lizmat++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
09:04 dalek nqp: Bump MOAR_REVISION to 2015.02
09:04 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2eee369afe
09:09 FROGGS lizmat: I'll try RELEASE_6_10_0 now
09:14 dalek rakudo/nom: d79cae3 | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
09:14 dalek rakudo/nom: Copy of previous announcement
09:14 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d79cae3586
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09:27 dalek rakudo/nom: aae8fb5 | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
09:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Initial work on the release announcement
09:27 dalek rakudo/nom:
09:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Comments welcome!
09:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aae8fb551f
09:28 lizmat put into a separate diff for easier comparison ^^^
09:28 lizmat afk for a few hours
09:28 lizmat expect start working on the actual release around 2pm CET (3.5 hours from now)
09:29 lizmat &
09:35 ab5tract lizmat++
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09:58 masak good antenoon, #perl6
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10:14 timotimo hello
10:16 jnthn o/ timotimo
10:17 Ven o/, #perl6
10:17 nwc10 lizmat: you have two "really"s in the section about "final-or-not?". I tried to find a better wording for it, but so far I've failed.
10:18 nwc10 Possibly "Whether Parrot support can be restored at some point really depends..."
10:24 timotimo jnthn: in order to make CAPS have integers rather than floats, i'd just sprinkle https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/src/QRegex/P6Regex/Actions.nqp#L776 with nqp::coerce_ni calls?
10:24 timotimo mostly around the +%... parts, i'd expect
10:25 timotimo how about the literal 1s and 2s? are they going to be integers?
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10:30 timotimo nqp: say(nqp::lexprimspec(1)) # is that how?
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10:30 timotimo m: say "test"
10:30 timotimo :o
10:31 jnthn timotimo: Or see if we can get it doing ints from the start.
10:33 jnthn timotimo: e.g. take an int $count
10:35 jnthn timotimo: You probably want objprimspec there :)
10:35 jnthn timotimo: Around the +% thing I may instead replace the + with nqp::add_i
10:35 jnthn timotimo: But may also be possible to avoid the + at all
10:36 timotimo nqp::elems instead, eh?
10:36 timotimo ISTR there's an opt i made somewhere that'll turn prefix + into elems
10:37 timotimo yeah
10:37 timotimo chars, ord and elems are special-cased to return 1 for returns_int inside num_to_int
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10:37 timotimo but prefix+ doesn't seem to have anything yet
10:38 timotimo oh, wrong again
10:39 timotimo the op "numify" will .returns(int) if its argument is a % or @ var
10:40 FROGGS gah
10:40 FROGGS I cannot build rakudo on parrot on windows because I'd need ICU
10:41 timotimo you mean "an older parrot"?
10:42 jnthn FROGGS: I think you can get ICU binaries; I've not tried it in a long time.
10:42 timotimo i'm not actually sure the returns(int) helps at all here
10:44 FROGGS timotimo: aye, 6.8.0
10:44 FROGGS jnthn: will give it a try
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11:00 grondilu can I begin complaining about the unavailability of FOSDEM videos or is it too soon?
11:02 FROGGS grondilu: no, go ahead
11:03 grondilu ouch, your straightforward answer disarmed me :)
11:04 grondilu more seriously though, I keep being puzzled by how long it always takes.
11:22 masak due to regulation they have to feed each frame of the video through a Jacquard loom. takes time.
11:23 timotimo grondilu: no worries, the videos will be up soon after the FOSDEM, or maybe even while the FOSDEM is still running!
11:39 DrForr_ What he doesn't mention is he means the *next* FOSDEM.
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11:45 nwc10 grondilu: APW videos were up very quickly. But that was a side effect of us only paying for the most basic work - recording, but no editing, or splicing in the slides.
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11:46 nwc10 "us" - the sponsors, which IIRC for videos were dijkmat and the Vienna.pm verein.
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12:21 lizmat nwc10: well, not dijkmat, actually  :-)
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12:22 dalek rakudo/nom: 49fe2bf | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
12:22 dalek rakudo/nom: really-- nwc10++
12:22 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/49fe2bf6dd
12:22 nwc10 lizmat: "perl6"?
12:22 lizmat yeah..  something like that  :-)
12:23 lizmat it's not really important  :-)
12:24 nwc10 it's somewhat important - I like sponsors, because I want them to get a warm fuzzy feeling and sponsor again.
12:24 nwc10 keep them addicted :-)
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12:25 lizmat so it appears we lost rakudo on Parrot on Win since at least 23 January, and nobody noticed ?
12:26 FROGGS lizmat:  seems so
12:27 FROGGS ohh, perhaps I have an icu build in a minute
12:27 lizmat and it's actually Parrot itself that doesn't build on Win, right?
12:27 FROGGS yes
12:27 lizmat so Parrot abandoned Win in January
12:28 lizmat and didn't tell anybody about it  :-)
12:28 lizmat *sigh*
12:28 jnthn lizmat: I guess the "other notable changes" section is still to do?
12:29 lizmat jnthn: yeah...
12:30 lizmat I thought I'd do the things most up for discussion first
12:32 lizmat trying to build blead on parrot perl 6.8.0
12:32 lizmat s/perl//
12:33 FROGGS for anybody that wants to build nqp with parrot and icu on windows:
12:33 FROGGS download icu from http://site.icu-project.org/download/52 then unpack it to C:\icu
12:33 FROGGS then: perl Configure.pl --backends=moar,jvm,parrot --gen-parrot --parrot-option="--icushared=\"C:\icu\lib64\icudt.lib C:\icu\lib64\icuuc.lib\" --icuheaders=C:\icu\include" --prefix=C:\nqp\install --make-install
12:34 FROGGS I also say that because that is need for the one (me?) building the next star.msi
12:36 lizmat ++FROGGS++
12:38 FROGGS hehe
12:40 moritz lizmat: wasn't there an incompatible change in how postcircumfix:<( )> is invoked? or was that alread in 2015.01?
12:40 moritz lizmat: apart from that, I really like the announcement so far
12:41 lizmat moritz: not sure...
12:41 moritz ah yes, first changelog entry
12:42 lizmat after 2015.01 you mean?
12:43 dalek rakudo/nom: b003eb2 | moritz++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
12:43 dalek rakudo/nom: Release announcement: copy incompatible change from ChangeLog
12:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b003eb206b
12:43 moritz lizmat: I mean the first line f changelog currently in docs/ChangeLog
12:43 lizmat moritz: yeah, gotcha now
12:43 moritz but I've updated the announcement, so no further action required from you :-)
12:44 lizmat except pulling before I go on  :-)
12:44 moritz fwiw the 'no strict' indicators (like 6;) are also an incompatible change
12:44 moritz that they were removed, I mean
12:44 lizmat ah, yes....
12:44 moritz though I hope nobody relied on them :-)
12:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 900574f | moritz++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
12:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Announcement: mention removed "no strict" markers
12:46 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:46 dalek rakudo/nom: also elaborate on the invoke changes
12:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/900574fc6a
12:46 moritz lizmat: one more pull please :-)
12:47 FROGGS I was asked to forward a job announcement, please read here if you are interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/forhire/comments/2wdsfb/hiring_front_end_developer_for_web_application/
12:48 dalek rakudo/nom: 0f1f5a3 | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
12:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Incompatible change: 6; no longer no stricts
12:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0f1f5a3614
12:48 dalek rakudo/nom: bf26daf | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
12:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge of my change, moritz++
12:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bf26daf56c
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12:57 lizmat hmmm....  compiling with parrot 6.8.0 works, but has spectest failures
12:57 lizmat I guess one solution would be to fudge those tests
12:57 lizmat 14 test fails, 1 todo passed, oddly enough
12:59 lizmat afk for a bit
13:06 grondilu so now the only way to get no strict is to type 'no strict'?
13:12 lizmat or feed it through -e
13:13 lizmat and the latter is also under debate
13:19 * masak opposes lax -e
13:20 * jnthn opposes lax...he's mildy alergic, even...
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13:21 nwc10 is that a fishy pun?
13:21 jnthn 'fraid so :P
13:21 nwc10 there's a time and a plaice for those sort of things..
13:22 lizmat haai five  (this for the Dutch among us :-)
13:23 masak works in Swedish, too
13:23 jnthn I was angling for a better pun, but codn't think of one...
13:24 masak this topic is already floundering...
13:24 jnthn It'd be brill if you didn't carp about it...
13:25 masak sorry, that was my sole contribution.
13:25 Kristien joined #perl6
13:25 Kristien hi
13:26 lizmat Kristien o/
13:26 masak Crestfish \o
13:26 jnthn You'll be herring no more of them from me...
13:26 nwc10 everyone is too busy making puns to write any cod :-(
13:26 lizmat in shark contract to me
13:27 lizmat *contrast
13:27 lizmat *sigh*
13:27 raiph joined #perl6
13:27 * masak .oO( Eiffel typo )
13:28 lizmat so, that state wrt to parrot:
13:28 jnthn .oO( I'm not sure that was by design... )
13:28 Kristien is there a way to get signal numbers from their names?
13:28 moritz Kristien: yes!
13:28 Kristien currently I hardcode pr_set_pdeathsig 1; but pr_set_pdeathsig SIGHUP; or something would be nicer.
13:28 lizmat Kristien: put a + in front of them?
13:28 moritz m: say +Signal::SIGHUP
13:28 Kristien neat, thanks. let's try :)
13:28 * masak learns that there's a type of fish called "false cat shark", which is related to the "gollumshark", and he's not even making this up
13:28 moritz ENOCAMELIA
13:29 jnthn masak: I learned about the humuhumunukunukuāpuaʻa but I'm struggling on a pun...
13:29 lizmat $ 6 'say +SIGTERM'
13:29 lizmat 15
13:29 masak jnthn: hum hum, yes.
13:30 lizmat actions wrt to parrot for the release:
13:30 lizmat 1. fall back to 6.8.0, fudge failing spec tests
13:30 lizmat 2. keep 7.1.0, ignore fail on win completely
13:30 lizmat 3. forget about parrot 2015.02
13:31 lizmat my preference would be 1 at the moment
13:31 moritz +1 to 1
13:32 jnthn lizmat: If 1 is not too much work, sounds like the best way to ship a release that can be broadly built and used on Parrot.
13:33 nwc10 sorry if this is a daft question, but why/how do 6.9.0..7.0.2 fail?
13:34 Kristien m: say 6.9.0..7.0.2
13:34 nwc10 and of the options presented, (1) seems most pragmatic
13:35 lizmat nwc10: I don't know, they fail on Win, I'm told by FROGGS
13:35 lizmat to be clear: parrot *itself* doesn't build
13:36 lizmat 6.8.0 was the last version I've seen FROGGS try on Win
13:36 FROGGS true
13:36 FROGGS no, 6.10.0 actually
13:36 FROGGS Using C:/nqp/install/bin/nqp-p (version 2015.01-58-g7ebbcb0 / Parrot 6.10.0).
13:36 FROGGS Using C:\nqp\install/bin/nqp-j.bat (version 2015.01-58-g7ebbcb0 / Java(TM) 1.8.0_25).
13:36 FROGGS Using C:\nqp\install\bin\nqp-m.bat (version 2015.01-58-g7ebbcb0 / MoarVM 2015.01-78-g5121acd).
13:37 lizmat ok, I'll try with 6.10.0 on my machine then
13:37 nwc10 FROGGS: but 6.11.0 and 7.0.x didn't "work on my machine"?
13:37 FROGGS nwc10: I'll create a bug report for 7.1.0 after running sanity tests for rakudo
13:38 FROGGS nwc10: I only tested 7.0.1, 7.0.2 and 7.1.0, and these fail for different reasons
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13:48 ab5tract fwiw, just watching the discussion i would edge towards 3. but i don't have any historical connection to parrot, good or bad.
13:48 ab5tract but it seems like these things pop up too often, when there are better places to put time and care into rakudo
13:49 lizmat well, in this case you can blame me, as I insisted on testing this release on Win
13:49 lizmat if I hadn't, the release would have just gone out
13:50 lizmat and maybe nobody would have noticed it didn't work on Win after all
13:50 FROGGS aye
13:50 psch i don't think 3 is an option, tbh
13:50 psch if only because pmichaud++ explicitly stated "suspended shortly after the 2015.02 release" on his blog
13:51 FROGGS like the jvm+osx problems... there are just a few ppl that can notice at all... and when these skip a release nobody will ever know
13:51 lizmat yeah, psch, but that was before we know *parrot* has been broken on Win for at least a month
13:51 lizmat *knew
13:51 ab5tract psch: i think that a small errata on that post is better than any more cycles wasted from #perl6
13:52 psch lizmat: i know, but having at least a working parrot beats breaking that statement imo, and from the looks of it 6.8.0 (or even 6.10.0?) works, right?
13:52 ab5tract but again that's just my opinion, and it's a different discussion in the broader context of rakudo + parrot
13:52 lizmat psch: running spectest on 6.10.0 now
13:52 psch of course, this is from the perspective that parakudo is spectest clean with that version
13:52 psch if it's not i'd side with ab5tract here
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13:57 ab5tract right, if 6.10.0 passes fine then i would lean towards 1
13:57 ab5tract but i think i don't think the bird deserves any more fudge :/
13:57 lizmat spectesting parrot just takes a bit longer
13:57 Kristien m: my $x = 1; $x &&= 0; say $x
13:58 Kristien oh right camelia is dead
13:58 lizmat $ 6 'my $x = 1; $x &&= 0; say $x'
13:58 lizmat 0
13:58 * ab5tract carefully uses an awkward guarded phrase composition
13:58 lizmat .oO( Camelia standin )
13:58 ab5tract lizmatbot++
14:02 lizmat only 4 failures with 6.10.0
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14:02 lizmat and minor ones at that
14:03 FROGGS and I finally am able to run the sanity tests...
14:03 FROGGS so, that looks good
14:03 Kristien is native stuff resolved at compile time?
14:03 Kristien I want to select a different set of functions depending on OS X vs Linux
14:03 lizmat and recent ones relating to TimToady work ok base-repeating and such
14:04 andreoss japhb: i wonder if you had a chance to take a look at my pool request for perl6-bench
14:04 FROGGS lizmat: so, RELEASE_6_10_0 seem really like what we want to do
14:04 lizmat in fact, those errors were recently fixed by TimToady, and I haven't pulled those yet
14:05 FROGGS nice
14:05 lizmat so looks like a clean spectest on 6.10.0
14:05 FROGGS I'm going to ticket the 7.1.0 fails in a bit
14:05 lizmat so, one final double check and then revert to 6.10.0
14:05 FROGGS lizmat++
14:11 psch lizmat++
14:12 lizmat that one test-file now passes, running full one again to be really sure  :-)
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: 6dddb06 | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Mention NativeCall as an incompatible change
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6dddb0639d
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: 1d2b01c | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Added "Other notable changes"
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: That would be the list for me.  Please let me know if you think something
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: is missing here.
14:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1d2b01c307
14:20 jnthn lizmat: May be worth calling out some of the major performance improvements (your trans and subst work, the mixin 10x faster work)
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14:23 dalek rakudo/nom: 0fa78df | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
14:23 dalek rakudo/nom: Added major performance improvements
14:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0fa78df5eb
14:24 lizmat sanity/spectest on parrot 6.10.0 ok
14:26 grondilu m: my @t = 60, 60, 24; say ([+] 1, 2, 3 Z* @t).polymod(@t)
14:26 Ven joined #perl6
14:27 lizmat 6 'my @t = 60, 60, 24; say ([+] 1, 2, 3 Z* @t).polymod(@t)
14:27 lizmat > '
14:27 lizmat 12 4 0 0
14:28 dalek nqp: e433235 | lizmat++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
14:28 dalek nqp: Revert Parrot to 6.10.0
14:28 dalek nqp:
14:28 dalek nqp: During the release process of 2015.02, (which will be the last Rakudo compiler
14:28 dalek nqp: release on parrot for quite some time to come), it became clear that the
14:28 dalek nqp: Parrot 7.x series does *not* build on Windows.  In order to not hold up the
14:28 dalek nqp: Rakudo release process, it was decided to revert the Parrot version to 6.10.0,
14:28 dalek nqp: the last version known to build on Windows *and* pass the Rakudo sanity test
14:28 dalek nqp: as well as the spectest.
14:28 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e433235aea
14:30 * grondilu does not understand this polymod function
14:34 lizmat $ 6 'say 93784.polymod(60,60,24)'
14:34 lizmat 4 3 2 1
14:34 lizmat 93784 seconds is 1 day, 2 hours, 3 minutes and 4 seconds
14:34 grondilu but here 4 is a remainder, not a quotient, isn't it?
14:35 lizmat yes
14:35 grondilu ok
14:35 lizmat 1 x 60 x 60 x 24 + 2 x 60 x 60 + 3 x 60 + 4 = 93784
14:37 dalek nqp: 2c6dfc3 | lizmat++ | VERSION:
14:37 dalek nqp: bump VERSION to 2015.02
14:37 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2c6dfc31b4
14:37 grondilu ok, finally got it:
14:37 grondilu $ perl6 -e 'my @t = 60, 60, 24; say ([+] 4, 3, 2, 1 Z* [\*] 1, @t).polymod(@t)'
14:37 grondilu ^ 4, 3, 2, 1
14:40 lizmat argh, I screwed up the version on parrot
14:41 lizmat moritz FROGGS : I'm thinking of reverting the last 2 nqp releases
14:41 lizmat and then redo them properly
14:41 lizmat jnthn ^^^ opinions ?
14:41 moritz NOOOO
14:41 jnthn lizmat: Huh, why?
14:41 moritz releases are releases. They are released to the wild. You can't undo them
14:42 jnthn lizmat: If something wasn't done right, juts do it right in this release.
14:42 moritz people have installed them
14:42 lizmat I bumped parrot to 6.10.1
14:42 lizmat moritz: this is nqp, it was just a commit, not a tag
14:42 moritz lizmat: the last two releases include 2015.01, no?
14:42 grondilu hum, so polymod is something I can use to get the decomposition in a base > 36.  Good to know.
14:42 grondilu my @t = 60, 60, 24; say ([+] 4, 3, 2, 1 Z* [\*] 1, @t).polymod(@t)
14:42 grondilu oops
14:42 moritz lizmat: or did you mean the last two commits?
14:43 grondilu I meant:  say ([+] ^10 Z* [\*] 1, 256 xx *).polymod(256 xx *);
14:43 lizmat the last 2 commitys
14:43 lizmat commits
14:43 moritz lizmat: did you push the tag already?
14:43 lizmat no
14:43 moritz good
14:43 moritz then reverting or force-pushing them away is fair game, IMHO
14:43 lizmat that's what I hoped  :-)
14:44 jnthn Still don't get why to revert, though. The VERSION update is surely fine, and if the PARROT_REVISION one was wrong then can just fix it in a follow-up commit...unless you really do want what was there before.
14:44 moritz I thought you meant to undo the 2015.01 and 2014.12 release
14:44 FROGGS how? go back into time?
14:44 jnthn No reason to revert VERSION though.
14:45 lizmat jnthn: so ok to just update PARROT_REVISION, as it it still before the tag?
14:45 moritz lizmat: that works
14:45 FROGGS right, every commit before the tag is fine
14:45 moritz lizmat: the tag is authorotative, not the commit that updates VERSION
14:45 lizmat ok
14:46 jnthn lizmat: Sure, if you updated it wrongly in the last commit, just make another one to fix it. It's only when you tag (well, push the tag strictly) that you identified "this is the released thing"
14:46 lizmat ack, thanks everybody++
14:47 dalek nqp: 33a16d2 | lizmat++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
14:47 dalek nqp: Actually revert to 6.10.0, instead of 6.10.1
14:47 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/33a16d2a3a
14:49 Khisanth joined #perl6
14:55 * grondilu modified http://rosettacode.org/wiki/SHA-256#Perl_6 to use polymod.
14:55 grondilu ^ quite possibly other hash functions can use this.
14:58 FROGGS nwc10: I filed an issue for parrot 7.1.0: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/1203
15:00 lizmat moritz: I copied the manifest: and release: targets from the Parrot makefile to the Moar makefile
15:00 lizmat now I get: $ make release 2015.02
15:00 lizmat Makefile:344: *** missing separator.  Stop.
15:00 FROGGS you did what?
15:01 lizmat moritz: which is     echo MANIFEST >MANIFEST
15:01 lizmat the parrot makefile was the only one with the "make release" target
15:02 lizmat after this release, we won't be building parrot anymore, so we can't make the release tar anymore
15:02 moritz lizmat: "missing separator" could mean that you have spaces instead of tabs somewhere
15:02 FROGGS well, you configure for all backends, and then you run `make manifest` IIRC
15:02 FROGGS or did I miss something?
15:02 lizmat ah, that could be it...  checking...
15:03 lizmat well, all backends won't include parrot anymore in the future
15:03 FROGGS true
15:03 FROGGS but I'm wondering why you do that now
15:04 lizmat because I'm bored waiting for builds / tests to complete  :-)
15:04 FROGGS ahh :o)
15:05 PerlJam greetings #perl6-lings
15:05 lizmat PerlJam o/
15:05 FROGGS hi PerlJam
15:05 moritz lizmat: cut&paste-moving the 'manifest' and 'release' blocks from the Parrot to the Moar Makefile.in worked for me
15:07 * PerlJam got a linkedin request from a "food supervisor at the Federal Beureau of Prisons"
15:07 PerlJam That's totally bizarre.
15:08 FROGGS hehe
15:11 lizmat especially the "Beureau" part, that's truly PinkPantheresque
15:12 moritz lizmat: should I commit+push the working, moved release generator code for you?
15:12 lizmat moritz: please do
15:13 PerlJam lizmat: ooc, what editor were you using to paste the makefile targets into?
15:14 lizmat vi
15:14 lizmat with a setting that converts tabs to spaces :-)
15:14 psch :set paste
15:14 psch ;)
15:14 psch although i suppose if it converts on :w that doesn't help :)
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 313ea7b | moritz++ | tools/build/Makefile- (2 files):
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: Move "manifest" and "release" targets to MoarVM Makefile template
15:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/313ea7b6b0
15:15 * moritz used vi, but only vi's cut&paste, not the OSes
15:17 PerlJam The makefile syntax highlighter for vi(m) shows the rules in a nice red color when there are leading spaces rather than tabs too.
15:18 PerlJam (makes the invisible visible is one of the better uses of highlighting)
15:19 PerlJam s/makes/making/
15:20 Util FROGGS: I updated GH#1203
15:20 Util ingy: ping
15:20 * moritz also often search for t, and sets hls on
15:21 Ven joined #perl6
15:23 * grondilu did not know about :set paste and is a bit annoyed to acknowledge that he still has lot to learn about Vim
15:24 psch grondilu: :set list fits the current discussion as well (which i also had to look up, i rarely need it)
15:24 moritz grondilu: I have a feeling that vim offers about as many corners to learn as perl :-)
15:25 ingy^ joined #perl6
15:26 PerlJam grondilu: don't be annoyed.  There's always more to learn.
15:27 * arnsholt even has a keybinding to toggle paste mode
15:27 MadcapRusso joined #perl6
15:28 pmichaud (Parrot RELEASE_6_10_0)   I never understood why we bumped the Parrot version from 6_10_0 in the first place.
15:28 yoleaux 17 Feb 2015 05:47Z <[Coke]> pmichaud: do you have a list of tickets that will/should be addressed by the list work?
15:28 lizmat pmichaud: because I am an optimist ?
15:29 pmichaud lizmat: :)
15:29 pmichaud the rule has always been to stick with the oldest version of parrot that will support current rakudo
15:29 pmichaud and we only bump when a newer parrot has a capability we need
15:29 lizmat well, the former was true on my system
15:30 lizmat the latter, well, I guess I ignored that one
15:30 abraxxa someone knows more about a Perl 6 release than we do (in version 0.02): https://metacpan.org/changes/distribution/Net-IP-LPM
15:30 lizmat anyway, we're going to have a release that includes NativeCall, on parrot nonetheless  :-)
15:31 FROGGS Util: I replied... for some reason there is no test_3108.exe
15:33 * grondilu modified http://rosettacode.org/wiki/SHA-1#Perl_6 to use polymod as well.
15:37 masak TimToady: CHECK in a quasi? LINK in a quasi? do both of these run as soon as the Qtree returned from the macro has been spliced into the site of the call?
15:39 * jnthn notes that NativeCall has made it into the Rakudo repo almost exacty 5 years after he and mberends++ began work on it :)
15:40 FROGGS jnthn: wow, five years aleady...
15:45 jnthn Yeah. Soon we should send it to get edukashuns...
15:46 FROGGS I had to read it three times to get it :o)
15:48 Kristien joined #perl6
15:49 Kristien $ 6 { 0b10 => 'C', 0b01 => 'P', 0b00 => 'A' }{True +< 1 +| False}
15:50 Kristien hmm
15:50 Kristien very nice
15:53 Kristien I was afraid at first that 0b10 would be the string "0b10" here
15:56 lizmat BTW, do we know what happened to camelia ?
15:59 Kristien No.
16:00 telex joined #perl6
16:01 masak Kristien: that's the difference between how numbers are represented in code versus how they are represented when stored.
16:01 masak or "when stringified", more exactly.
16:01 Kristien I thought it may be a bareword.
16:01 Kristien instead of an integer literal
16:01 Kristien I know the difference between value and representation. :P
16:01 masak it's only a bareword if it starts with an alpha, I think :)
16:02 masak and even then, Perl 6 doesn't *really* have barewords, just an auto-quoting mechanism for pair keys.
16:05 Ven "TimToady: of the four or five ways a compiler can cheat, Perl 5 uses about eight of them" hahahhaa
16:05 * ingy and Util pairing on RosettaCodeData. Plan is to merge our code, and make https://github.com/acmeism/RosettaCodeData always up to date
16:06 ingy and Util take over the project
16:08 dalek perl6-roast-data: 81d36fe | coke++ | / (5 files):
16:08 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:08 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/81d36fe10d
16:10 Kristien Ven: link
16:11 Ven Kristien: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-01-10#i_6318090
16:11 Kristien lexing is the most boring job in the world
16:14 Kristien speaking of which I have to make a lexer ASAP
16:14 Kristien or rather generate one
16:14 arnsholt In Perl 6, or just in general?
16:14 Kristien C++
16:15 arnsholt Just use flex
16:15 Kristien but I'll probably just use flex
16:15 FROGGS :D
16:15 arnsholt Best way I know =)
16:15 lizmat the nqp tar fiile doesn't allow build of JVM: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/c86c00b052cc3c4c724c
16:15 lizmat suggestions welcome
16:16 jnthn lizmat: All the things it can't find were recently added.
16:16 lizmat so the manifest is incorrect ?
16:17 jnthn That'd be my guess
16:18 lizmat https://gist.github.com/lizmat/b05e456a0a2c03907988  # the MANIFEST
16:18 jnthn git ls-files certainly lists it
16:19 jnthn lizmat: Agree it's missing from the gist you just pasted
16:19 jnthn wat...
16:19 jnthn You didn't have an old manifest file lying around, maybe?
16:20 lizmat could well be
16:20 lizmat lemme try that again
16:21 lizmat yup, removing the MANIFEST file regenerated it
16:21 jnthn ok :)
16:22 * lizmat starts another cycle of building, making and testing
16:23 lizmat yeah, this also solves the problem I saw with generating the tar-file for rakudo
16:23 robinsmidsrod joined #perl6
16:23 lizmat feels to me the MANIFEST should be regenerated always
16:25 jnthn *nod*
16:25 jnthn Though make clean clearing it away should help too
16:27 jnthn Also it's not clear to me why it doesn't already work
16:27 jnthn Oh...is your file system case-insensitive?
16:27 jnthn manifest:
16:27 jnthn echo MANIFEST >MANIFEST
16:27 lizmat jnthn: yes
16:27 jnthn It may confuse manifest (target) and MANIFEST (generated file) if so.
16:27 lizmat $ make manifest
16:27 lizmat make: `manifest' is up to date.
16:28 jnthn I guess changing the target name works
16:28 jnthn maniparty or something
16:28 jnthn :P
16:28 lizmat I've added MANIFEST to realclean
16:28 jnthn That also helps :)
16:28 lizmat that is one of the steps
16:29 jnthn Ah, then it's fine.
16:32 gfldex joined #perl6
16:34 dalek nqp: ec45651 | lizmat++ | tools/build/Makefile-Parrot.in:
16:34 dalek nqp: Add MANIFEST to realclean
16:34 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ec45651b06
16:34 dalek nqp: 51dcca1 | lizmat++ | tools/build/Makefile- (2 files):
16:34 dalek nqp: Move some make logic from Parrot to Moar
16:34 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/51dcca1661
16:36 jnthn dinner &
16:37 dalek doc: b252e5d | moritz++ | lib/Language/functions.pod:
16:37 dalek doc: Add examples for custom (post)circumfix operators
16:37 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b252e5d294
16:39 dalek doc: 9f0fc40 | moritz++ | lib/Language/functions.pod:
16:39 dalek doc: Precedence of custom operators
16:39 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9f0fc40e9d
16:46 skids joined #perl6
16:53 dalek rakudo/nom: b52ab63 | lizmat++ | tools/build/Makefile-common.in:
16:53 dalek rakudo/nom: Make sure we realclean out any MANIFEST as well
16:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b52ab632c3
16:54 dalek rakudo/nom: ed906f6 | lizmat++ | src/core/tai-utc.pm:
16:54 dalek rakudo/nom: We got a new leap second, hurray!
16:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ed906f6073
16:56 amaliapomian joined #perl6
16:56 Mouq joined #perl6
16:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 50bf615 | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.02.md:
16:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Add this month's contributors
16:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/50bf615d70
17:03 zakharyas joined #perl6
17:04 dalek rakudo/nom: fba6e2d | lizmat++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
17:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump NQP_REVISION for release 2015.02
17:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fba6e2d908
17:04 dalek rakudo/nom: 05f6396 | lizmat++ | VERSION:
17:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump VERSION for release 2015.02
17:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/05f63967a2
17:07 Ugator joined #perl6
17:11 lizmat afk for some r&r
17:17 timotimo no tag pushed yet, though?
17:17 Ven joined #perl6
17:17 Kristien joined #perl6
17:20 hoelzro lizmat++
17:20 hoelzro does anyone here know much about Debian packaging?
17:21 hoelzro I created some package stuff for MoarVM, nqp, and rakudo last night, and I was wondering if I should stick them into the repos
17:22 [Sno] joined #perl6
17:24 TimToady masak: I would think that CHECK and LINK, when mentioned at compile time, just get processed at the same time as normal CHECK and LINK blocks, that is, just are queued up normally at splice time, awaiting the end of compilation phase for unit or application, respectively
17:25 TimToady quasis are just another way to write generic code that doesn't mean anything specific till instantiated, which for a macro is splice time
17:27 Kristien aloha!
17:28 camelia joined #perl6
17:29 nine_ Feb 18 22:18:36 ns1 systemd[1]: camelia@freenode.org.service start request repeated too quickly, refusing to start.
17:31 Kristien m: say 'hi'
17:32 nine_ Feb 19 18:31:06 ns1 bash[7310]: Can't fork(): Resource temporarily unavailable at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 109.
17:35 camelia joined #perl6
17:36 nine_ m: say "I'm back!"
17:37 camelia rakudo-moar 313ea7: OUTPUT«I'm back!␤»
17:38 nine_ Upped LimitNProc for the service from 20 to 30
17:38 TimToady m: say 5e0.base(2,20)
17:38 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«101.00000000000000000000␤»
17:41 spider-mario joined #perl6
17:41 mohij joined #perl6
17:42 lizmat timotimo: tag for NQP was pushed, not sure why dalek didn't tell
17:43 lizmat afk again&
17:46 moritz lizmat: dalek only reports commits, not tags
17:47 robinsmidsrod joined #perl6
17:59 timotimo for nqp, fair enough, but not for rakudo?
18:01 smls joined #perl6
18:01 smls o/
18:03 smls Can some one who knows the Perl 6 grammar rules well, check if my reply here is factually accurate: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1117227
18:05 lizmat timotimo: still testing the tarball for rakudo
18:05 lizmat afk until that's done
18:08 Mouq smls: Looks good to me :) "operator does not have a candidate for that object's type" might not be clear language to 5ers though
18:09 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
18:12 smls Mouq: "operator has not been overloaded for that object's type" maybe?
18:13 espadrine_ joined #perl6
18:13 japhb .tell andreoss Apologies for not getting back to you about the perl6-bench PR.  OK, blocking problems: The change to minibenchmarks.pl changes every line in the file (do you have auto-reformat on in your editor?), and the merge-sort files are missing
18:13 yoleaux 18 Feb 2015 15:29Z <timotimo> japhb: can we somehow get a test into perl6-bench that's very different from the other tests? i'm thinking of "maxrss used for starting up a repl and immediately killing it" and "maxrss used for 'say(1)'"
18:13 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to andreoss.
18:14 japhb .ask timotimo Do you know a portable way to capture maxrss?  If so, I'll just include that in the captured information about *every* test.
18:14 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
18:15 grettir joined #perl6
18:15 itz hoelzro: someone was asking about debian packaging on a mailing list a few months back
18:15 hoelzro yeah?
18:16 itz I'll see if I can find details
18:16 japhb To anyone in general who is interested in getting more benchmarks (or features) into perl6-bench: I'm (very!) happy to take PR's.  I tend to be a bit scatterbrained about followup, so PLEASE feel free to ping me.  I'd rather have the contributions than people being overly-polite.  :-)
18:20 timotimo japhb: i do not, sadly
18:20 yoleaux 18:14Z <japhb> timotimo: Do you know a portable way to capture maxrss?  If so, I'll just include that in the captured information about *every* test.
18:20 itz hoelzro: https://ddumont.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/looking-for-help-to-package-perl6-moar-and-others-for-debian/
18:20 hoelzro oh, I hadn't realized someone had done this
18:21 TimToady m: sub infix:<<>($a,$b) is equiv(&infix:<==>) { $a < $b }; say 42<43
18:21 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:21 TimToady m: sub infix:<<>($a,$b) is equiv(&infix:<==>) { $a < $b }; say 42<43<44
18:21 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:21 itz hoelzro: I doubt
18:21 itz oops
18:21 TimToady .u <
18:21 yoleaux U+FF1C FULLWIDTH LESS-THAN SIGN [Sm] (<)
18:21 itz hoelzro: I doubt its up to date even
18:21 hoelzro probably not
18:21 hoelzro but it's probably better than what I have =)
18:21 TimToady we can get it down to halfspace on either side of < :)
18:21 hoelzro I have working packages for 2015.01, but lintian is mad at them
18:21 TimToady well, quarterspace on either side
18:22 hoelzro and I had to do some stupid patches for MoarVM
18:22 itz https://packages.debian.org/sid/rakudo
18:23 itz wtf is "sh4" arch?
18:23 smls TimToady: :P
18:24 _mg_ joined #perl6
18:24 itz looks like it was built on Dreamcast in 2011 :)
18:25 TimToady m: sub infix:<<>($a,$b) is equiv(&infix:<==>) { $a < $b }; say -2<-1<0
18:25 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«True␤»
18:25 TimToady yes, it really is chaining
18:25 japhb timotimo: What is the (Unicode) reason for FULLWIDTH LESS-THAN SIGN?
18:25 japhb er
18:25 japhb TimToady:
18:25 japhb Dang tab-complete fail
18:26 FROGGS joined #perl6
18:26 timotimo japhb: if we can't portably do maxrss, what will we do? :(
18:26 japhb (You can tell who is using irssi ...)
18:26 TimToady they have fullwidth of most of ASCII
18:26 timotimo also, the memory usage numbers reported by windows and linux seem to differ by the amount of shared memory in use or something like that
18:28 TimToady .u fullwidth
18:28 yoleaux U+FF01 FULLWIDTH EXCLAMATION MARK [Po] (!)
18:28 yoleaux U+FF02 FULLWIDTH QUOTATION MARK [Po] (")
18:28 yoleaux U+FF03 FULLWIDTH NUMBER SIGN [Po] (#)
18:28 Rounin joined #perl6
18:28 japhb timotimo: Well, I can fall back to using a platform-dependent way of checking maxrss if there is still a reliable-way per-platform.  I've been trying to avoid any platform dependencies, but waddyagonnado if there is just no substitute?
18:30 Mouq joined #perl6
18:30 smls japhb: Probably so you can use those interpunctuation characters in Chinese text without breaking the layout
18:34 TimToady yes, note that all CJK characters (except explicit HALFWIDTH) are supposed to be square
18:34 TimToady so they work both vertically or horizontally
18:34 Foxcool joined #perl6
18:35 andreoss japhb: i just did one more commit that is supposed to fix the problems your mentions. is it ok? or should i redo it in a new branch?
18:35 yoleaux 18:13Z <japhb> andreoss: Apologies for not getting back to you about the perl6-bench PR.  OK, blocking problems: The change to minibenchmarks.pl changes every line in the file (do you have auto-reformat on in your editor?), and the merge-sort files are missing
18:37 andreoss auto-reformat was done by perl-tidy, this time i tried to visually stick with the style the code already has, but if you use perltidy, please provide .perltidyrc so i could indent my code iwth it.
18:37 japhb TimToady, smls: Ah, OK
18:38 TimToady makes it easier to do crosswords too :)
18:39 japhb andreoss: I don't use perltidy; I haven't actually tried, but I'd be somewhat surprised if any tidying program can handle the eccentric way I format most code.  :-)
18:39 japhb TimToady: Heh
18:39 japhb Looking at PR now
18:44 japhb andreoss: Pretty good, just one more minor change: I don't think you want "scaling  => 'linear'," for those tests.  That's used for benchmarks whose running time is a fast-increasing function of SCALE (e.g. exponential), telling timeall to increase SCALE more slowly than its normal exponential ramp-up.
18:44 alini joined #perl6
18:44 TimToady m: print "$_\x20de" for "\xff21".."\xff3a"
18:44 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«A⃞B⃞C⃞D⃞E⃞F⃞G⃞H⃞I⃞J⃞K⃞L⃞M⃞N⃞O⃞P⃞Q⃞R⃞S⃞T⃞U⃞V⃞W⃞X⃞Y⃞Z⃞»
18:45 TimToady eh?
18:45 TimToady major UTF-8 feyl
18:45 TimToady is okay in the logfile though
18:46 moritz my terminal doesn't like it
18:46 moritz firefox does
18:46 TimToady my terminal likes it locally, so maybe something in irssi
18:46 TimToady looks like a very bug
18:47 TimToady it's doing the boxed doublewidth okay, but then pulling a U+00ff out of somewhere
18:47 Kristien joined #perl6
18:47 japhb timotimo (and anyone else interested in getting maxrss from benchmarks): Can you paste the output somewhere of: /usr/bin/time -v perl6 -e 'await do for ^16 { start { my $i; while ++$i < 1_000_000 { }; say $i } }'
18:47 jdv79 am I correct when I say doc.perl6.org is missing exception handling?
18:47 japhb on any unix-like platforms you have?
18:48 Kristien jdv79: yes
18:48 TimToady well, the box isn't lining up very well with the doublewidth anywhere though
18:48 Kristien doc.perl6.org is a domain name and domain names don't handle exceptions
18:48 * TimToady wonders if there's a CJK box somewhere
18:48 andreoss japhb: with scaling => 'exponential' are any additional parametrs required?
18:49 japhb andreoss: Just skip the scaling line completely.  Let it use the defaults.
18:49 japhb timotimo: Also confirm if your /usr/bin/time supports -o FILE and -f FORMAT options
18:49 FROGGS o/
18:50 moritz \o FROGGS
18:50 japhb o/
18:51 TimToady anyway, apart from alignment issues, looks like you could do a crossword with square characters and the combining enclosing square
18:51 [Tux] joined #perl6
18:51 * jnthn back
18:51 TimToady dunno if there's a big enough black square though
18:51 FROGGS these characters look good in my xchat on ubuntu
18:52 andreoss japhb: done
18:53 TimToady FROGGS: are the letters in the middle of the squares?
18:53 japhb ooh, live-updated on the github page, no need to refresh.
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: 0719587 | local++ | minibenchmarks.pl:
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: Merge sort benchmark
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/0719587286
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: 01a52a7 | local++ | perl (2 files):
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: Insertion sort benchmark
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/01a52a7103
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: 136a61e | (Andrei Osipov)++ | / (3 files):
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: Added missing merge-sort files, fixed indendation in minibenchmarks.pl
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/136a61ef77
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: bb03ba1 | (Andrei Osipov)++ | minibenchmarks.pl:
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: Remove unnecessary 'scaling' option for tests
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/bb03ba1467
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: 6c017e2 | japhb++ | / (5 files):
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: Merge pull request #20 from andreoss/sorting-algs
18:53 dalek perl6-bench:
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: Sorting algs
18:53 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/6c017e2265
18:53 japhb Thanks, andreoss!
18:54 flussence whoa, I don't remember /usr/bin/time output being this verbose...
18:54 TimToady scaling is unnecessary now?
18:54 flussence japhb: https://gist.github.com/flussence/35adf69d41f81beb15c4
18:56 FROGGS TimToady: no, left aligned
18:56 FROGGS TimToady: but they are inside the squares
18:57 japhb TimToady: The scaling option is not needed for the benchmark tests unless you are testing something whose performance is not a linear relation to SCALE
18:57 FROGGS ...that reminds me of http://yapgh.blogspot.de/2011/03/sdl-perl-game-contest-week-2-roundup.html
18:57 FROGGS I should do these minigames again :o)
18:57 japhb flussence: uname -a? (Feel free to scrup your computer name from it)
18:59 flussence ~ $ uname -a | sed -e "s/$(hostname)//" --> Linux  3.18.1-zen #2 ZEN SMP PREEMPT Mon Jan 12 21:39:25 GMT 2015 x86_64 AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 20 Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
18:59 japhb Gee, AMD, advertise your processor a little more ....
19:00 cschwenz joined #perl6
19:00 japhb OK, anyone that can do the same with OS X or some BSD?
19:00 flussence (model number 20 doesn't even exist, good job BIOS... :)
19:01 TimToady well, the snuck in a plug for GNU, so that's okay :P
19:01 geekosaur Darwin [redacted].local 13.4.0 Darwin Kernel Version 13.4.0: Wed Dec 17 19:05:52 PST 2014; root:xnu-2422.115.10~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64
19:01 TimToady *they
19:01 geekosaur FreeBSD [redacted] 10.1-RELEASE-p5 FreeBSD 10.1-RELEASE-p5 #0: Tue Jan 27 08:55:07 UTC 2015     root@amd64-builder.daemonology.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  amd64
19:02 geekosaur the former is OS X 10.9, note. I have a 10.10 VM around somewhere
19:02 japhb geekosaur: Can you do the time output too?
19:03 japhb For reference: /usr/bin/time -v perl6 -e 'await do for ^16 { start { my $i; while ++$i < 1_000_000 { }; say $i } }'
19:03 flussence I've got a 32-bit box, if you want those numbers too
19:03 FROGGS OpenBSD  5.5 GENERIC#276 i386
19:03 geekosaur don't have perl6 on the freebsd box
19:04 geekosaur (or much of anything else, it's a very minimal server)
19:04 japhb flussence: Useful, thank you.  I'm really just trying to get an idea of what to be expecting, so I can code it up for perl6-bench, and maybe we can start graphing things like maxrss and cpu%
19:04 lizmat we have a Rakudo release!   http://rakudo.org/downloads/rakudo/
19:04 hoelzro \o/
19:04 Kristien we already had one!
19:04 nine_ lizmat++ nice work!
19:04 japhb lizmat++
19:04 lizmat announcement sent out
19:04 Mouq lizmat++
19:04 Foxcool joined #perl6
19:04 FROGGS OpenBSD  5.4 GENERIC#37 amd64
19:04 FROGGS lizmat++
19:05 geekosaur I will note that time does not take those parameters on fbsd or os x
19:05 japhb Hmmm, uname -a is way more terse on OpenBSD
19:05 japhb .oO( Why am I not surprised? )
19:05 nine_ So...when should we remove dependency on NativeCall from META.infos?
19:05 [Coke] lizmat++ #release.
19:05 jnthn lizmat++ \o/
19:06 japhb geekosaur: Oh hell.  What parameters do you have available for /usr/bin/time?  And is there another binary I should be using instead on those platforms?
19:06 moritz m: Thread.start(sub { say 42 }).finish
19:06 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«42␤»
19:06 moritz m: Thread.start(name => 'answer', sub { say 42 }).finish
19:06 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«42␤»
19:07 FROGGS japhb:      -l      The contents of the rusage structure are printed.
19:07 FROGGS -p      The output is formatted as specified by IEEE Std 1003.2-1992
19:07 FROGGS that's openbsd
19:08 japhb OpenBSD, I commend you for attempted standards performance, and stare at you crossly for user-hostile documentation on this one.  Especially since you pride yourself on complete docs.
19:08 lizmat when was the last Rakudo* release??
19:08 lizmat last month, right ?
19:08 geekosaur os x: -l (include rusage), -p (POSIX output format)
19:09 geekosaur fbsd: -o file, -a (append), -h (human friendly times), -l (rusage), -p (POSIX output format)
19:09 japhb OK, so looks like OS X and OpenBSD at least are using a binary of common history.  Can you paste the ouputs of those two formats?  (And do they combine to make a third format, or does one "win"?)
19:10 pdcawley joined #perl6
19:10 japhb OK, so FreeBSD has -o at least, that's good.
19:10 Kristien I made a gorgeous Perl 5 creation today
19:10 FROGGS lizmat: yes, January
19:11 davido__ joined #perl6
19:12 lizmat WP article also updated
19:12 japhb WP?
19:13 geekosaur the only thing -p changes is wherther the basic times (real, user, system) are on one line or three. the rusage is separate (and formatted about the same on both)
19:13 FROGGS wikipedia?
19:13 lizmat WikiPedia
19:13 * geekosaur updates rakudo on os x
19:13 japhb OK, so what does that look like, with the rusage?  That's the thing that's more important for perl6-bench, I think
19:14 pmichaud lizmat++ # release
19:14 geekosaur http://lpaste.net/5226454412972523520
19:14 * japhb does his last update-rakudo-on-all-backends run where all=moar,jvm,parrot
19:15 japhb geekosaur: Which OS was that one?
19:16 geekosaur it's been a while since I updated so can't run the thread stuff. updating now
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: 892f400 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | lib/Inline/Python.pm6:
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: Fix inherit.t failing due to wrong way to pass along arguments
19:16 dalek Inline-Python:
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: Thanks to moritz++ for reporting!
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Python/commit/892f400eb0
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: 4e1d908 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | lib/Inline/Python.pm6:
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: Remove obsolete __getattr__ method
19:16 dalek Inline-Python:
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: We don't need a Perl 6 __getattr__ anymore, since we now create a Python
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: class with proxies for all the subclass' methods. Thus Python already
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: knows all available methods including accessors for Perl 6 attributes.
19:16 dalek Inline-Python:
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: Plus, __getattr__ was broken anyway since it was passed a Buf and it
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: used it as Str.
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Python/commit/4e1d908b5f
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: 1ec864e | (Stefan Seifert)++ | t/exceptions.t:
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: Remove debug output from tests
19:16 dalek Inline-Python: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Python/commit/1ec864e46d
19:16 geekosaur os x (should have been in paste description)
19:16 geekosaur as I said, no p;erl6 on the fbsd box
19:16 geekosaur nor infrastructure for building it
19:16 geekosaur (and my network is now flapping, sigh)
19:16 japhb geekosaur: Oh, duh (re: paste description), just not used to that paste site's formatting
19:17 * lizmat is off for an appropriate amount of fun
19:17 jnthn lizmat: Enjoy :)
19:17 japhb FROGGS: Can you paste one for OpenBSD?
19:17 itz japhb: whats the diff between mini and micro benchmarks?
19:17 japhb And Windows users, if you have an equivalent command, I'm all eyeballs.
19:17 geekosaur configuring so I can do the real test
19:17 FROGGS japhb: one what?
19:18 japhb itz: micro: essentially one-liners, mini: a few lines to about a page (that's the intent, anyway).
19:18 itz ok
19:18 jnthn japhb: Not aware of one :(
19:19 japhb FROGGS: output from timing that command I posted (modified with s/-v/-l/ or s/-v/-l -p/)
19:19 japhb jnthn: Dangit.  Another place where Windows has a really excellent infrastructure and GUI for that sort of thing, and really weak CLI support.  :-(
19:20 jnthn japhb: There's tasklist that displays current memory use of all processes.
19:20 japhb (perfmon and its modern equivalent are the only things I ever run on Windows -- because I use them when a Windows-using family member asks why their machine is running slowly.  :-)
19:21 FROGGS japhb: I have no perl6 on these boxes though... but I guess its sister wo do too :o)
19:21 japhb jnthn: Yeah, just can't get the data out from it.
19:21 jnthn japhb: Well, tasklist is command line. But sadly it doesn't let you run a process under it nad find maximm memory afaik
19:21 japhb FROGGS: Any long-running command will do.  I used that particular one just to see if Perl 6 was using multiple cores properly on each OS.
19:21 jnthn japhb: Just shows you what is running at the time you take the snapshot.
19:22 japhb jnthn: Oh, I misunderstood what you meant by tasklist, I thought you meant the task manager, didn't realize it was actually a CLI named `tasklist`.  :-)
19:22 raiph joined #perl6
19:22 japhb Still, since it's just a snapshot, :-(
19:22 kurahaupo1 joined #perl6
19:24 jnthn Yeah. Close, but no cigar.
19:24 japhb jnthn: FWIW, changing the while loop to a similar for loop in the command I've been testing makes it sig-11.  But only if the loop maximum is large enough.  start + big for-range loops seems to make r-m very unhappy somehow
19:24 jnthn japhb: Odd...not seen that.
19:25 jnthn Please submit an RT
19:25 geekosaur joined #perl6
19:25 FROGGS japhb: https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/d419dfdb707aad3d7f3d
19:30 flussence japhb: 32-bit here (took a while because I just updated my rakudo) - https://gist.github.com/flussence/3e6badd23e0a8cc585e2
19:30 japhb jnthn: rakudobug submitted.  Had to use last-month version of r-m, since current month is still rebuilding.
19:31 dalek joined #perl6
19:31 jnthn japhb: but...but...what if we fixed it? :P
19:31 jnthn japhb++ # ticket
19:31 tgt joined #perl6
19:32 japhb :-)
19:32 japhb FROGGS, flussence: thank you!
19:32 geekosaur here's the actual thread test http://lpaste.net/7768125692633415680
19:32 FROGGS you're welcome
19:34 japhb geekosaur: Oh now that's interesting ... it hids the CPU percent in the one line that requires real parsing
19:34 japhb Also, thank you geekosaur as well.  :-)
19:34 geekosaur oh, the last time? I think thats zsh
19:34 geekosaur the 309% cpu line is zsh, not /usr/bin/time
19:34 japhb ah
19:35 geekosaur (I just slurped the whole thing, sorry)
19:35 * japhb listens to his fan spin up and down at different build stages
19:35 japhb No worries at all.
19:36 japhb So it sounds like I basically can get most unix-likes with handling '-v' (linux) and '-l -p' (others).
19:37 japhb No -o on some means I can't rely on a clean separation from the child program's output, sigh.
19:40 geekosaur um, traditionally the timing output is on stderr
19:41 geekosaur so redirect the program output elsewhere and you should still get timing
19:41 geekosaur unless it spits errors of course
19:41 geekosaur (and arguably your timing output is useless in that case anyway)
19:43 flussence "*resolve stage failed for Grammar::Debugger: Dependency Term::ANSIColor is not present in the module ecosystem" - what's up with that? It's there in ecosystem.git but not in `panda list`
19:44 japhb geekosaur: timeall (in perl6-bench) captures the stderr of the children in order to attempt to diagnose failure modes.  But this will cross the streams.
19:45 japhb And I certainly agree with stderr being the default for time output; I just wish I could rely on the *option* to send it to a file.
19:45 itz japhb: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/pull/21
19:45 itz not sure if it's correctly added to the json
19:47 geekosaur mm, /usr/bin/time ... sh -c '... 2>errors'
19:48 japhb itz, can you change it so that $n is initialized from SCALE (by adding that argument to the minibenchmarks.pl perl5 and perl6 lines, and by pulling from the first arg in each of your scripts)?
19:48 itz sure
19:48 japhb If you want to have a starting scale (because small values are known to be wicked fast, you can set that too.
19:49 japhb I generally set it to some power of two (like 1 << 10, for instance)
19:58 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 22 commits to rakudo/cpp by FROGGS
19:59 dalek rakudo/cpp: c856b8c | FROGGS++ | t/04-nativecall/11-cpp. (2 files):
19:59 dalek rakudo/cpp: add test for passing args to C++ method
19:59 dalek rakudo/cpp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c856b8c379
20:01 japhb flussence: Yeah, I'm seeing the same error.
20:01 [Tux] m: $*IN.CAPS.perl.say
20:01 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«No such method 'CAPS' for invocant of type 'IO::Handle'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/3W6G_y2l4f:1␤␤»
20:02 * [Tux] was trying to find the perl6 equiv of $/ and $\
20:02 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
20:02 [Coke] m: say $/, $\
20:02 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/uHUYVIiKdc␤Missing semicolon.␤at /tmp/uHUYVIiKdc:1␤------> 3say $/, $\7⏏5<EOL>␤»
20:02 [Coke] m: say $\ ;
20:02 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/EnhgVsTHHK␤Unsupported use of $\ variable; in Perl 6 please use the filehandle's .ors attribute␤at /tmp/EnhgVsTHHK:1␤------> 3say $\7⏏5 ;␤»
20:02 [Coke] ^^ we try to help out in that regard.
20:03 jnthn m: say $*IN.methods.grep({ .name ~~ /sep/ })
20:03 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«No such method 'methods' for invocant of type 'IO::Handle'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/LXWB31yP8v:1␤␤»
20:03 jnthn m: say $*IN.^methods.grep({ .name ~~ /sep/ })
20:03 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«input-line-separator␤»
20:05 [Tux] and /me thought to be "clever" using CAPS :/
20:07 [Tux] m: $*OUT.ors.perl.say
20:07 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«No such method 'ors' for invocant of type 'IO::Handle'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/w6ssQo0YgF:1␤␤»
20:08 [Tux] [Coke], what do I not understand about that helpful message?
20:09 rurban joined #perl6
20:09 flussence m: say $*OUT.^attributes
20:09 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«Mu $!path Mu $!PIO int $!ins Mu $!chomp Mu $!nl int $!pipe␤»
20:09 PerlJam lizmat++  (release)
20:10 [Tux] so, s/ors/nl/
20:10 [Tux] yep, that works
20:11 moritz avuserow: fwiw I've now installed Inline::Python hassle-free on hack.p6c.org
20:11 [Coke] can you file a rakudobug about the helpful message that isn't so helpful?
20:11 [Tux] m: $*OUT.nl = "\r\n";
20:11 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Str␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/IZcoW6DPaS:1␤␤»
20:11 [Coke] ++[Tux]
20:12 [Tux] thanks
20:12 moritz avuserow: so I'm fine with integrating Inline::Python into htmlify, if it's optional
20:12 Kristien vendethiel: what do you think of magic variables?
20:13 vendethiel like $/?
20:13 Kristien yes
20:14 [Tux] http://rakudo.org/tickets/ takes ages to load :/
20:14 vendethiel Kristien: I don't really mind so long they're lexical and uhm not part of the user-available identifiers
20:15 Kristien [Tux] file a bug report!
20:15 vendethiel I prefer when they're not here, ofcourse
20:15 Kristien vendethiel: like it and that? :D
20:15 vendethiel indeed...
20:15 vendethiel LS is like, what if we tried to make all the mistakes we could, and make it a language...
20:15 [Tux] Kristien, that is what I am trying to do :)
20:16 moritz [Tux]: mailto:rakudobug@perl.org
20:16 Kristien do all spam mails automatically get reported as bugs?
20:17 moritz Kristien: there's some form of (partially manual) filtering
20:17 Kristien I never got any spam until I signed up on CPAN.
20:18 vendethiel :o)
20:18 Kristien I think I'm allergic to oranges.
20:18 vendethiel Kristien: did you ask me that just to get my opinion on LS' take?
20:18 Kristien Every time I eat one my mouth starts aching and everything gets itchy.
20:18 Kristien vendethiel: no
20:20 rurban joined #perl6
20:20 [Coke] spam to rakudobug@... gets mostly filtered. if it makes it to a ticket, there's a big red button we can press to mark it as spam and kill it.
20:21 [Tux] ok, ors => nl sent
20:21 [Tux] should I also file the fact that $*OUT.nl is readonly?
20:21 rurban1 joined #perl6
20:21 [Coke] I have no idea if it's supposed to be or not.
20:21 [Coke] would have to check the syn.
20:22 moritz jnthn, lizmat: what exactly is Thread.app_lifetime?
20:22 moritz the comments in Thrad.pm say "Is the thread's lifetime bounded by that of the application, such that when it exits, so does the thread?"
20:22 lizmat [Tux]: I'm not even sure IO::Handle.nl is even functional if different fro \n
20:22 moritz what is "the application" in this context?
20:22 [Tux] OUCH!
20:22 jnthn moritz: Comment is accurate
20:23 * [Tux] delays porting ty/45_eol.t for now
20:23 moritz jnthn: is application === process?
20:23 jnthn moritz: Yes
20:23 * lizmat backlogs
20:23 moritz there are threads that live beyond the lifetime of a process?
20:23 jnthn moritz: No, there are threads that can block the end of the process evne if the main thread has finished, though.
20:24 moritz jnthn: oh, that makes sense
20:24 jnthn moritz: If app_lifetime is true then the thread does not block shutdown when the main thread is finished. We just tear everything down.
20:24 jnthn Thread pool threads are that way.
20:25 jnthn (Which is yet another reason to have something waiting on any async work you set off.)
20:25 jnthn (The primary reason being if you don't, you'll never know if the thing failed.)
20:26 PerlJam .oO( seems like app_lifetime should be named something like blocks_shutdown )
20:26 jnthn I'm open to better names.
20:27 jnthn I didn't like the Java and .Net namings for the concept fwiw.
20:27 jnthn (IsDaemon and Background vs. Foreground)
20:27 jnthn I still prefer what I came up with to those two, but I think there's room for improvement yet. :)
20:28 moritz I'll document it as is for now
20:28 [Coke] oh, tux is tux! Hi [Tux]. (just saw the name on the ticket)
20:28 moritz otherwise I'll never finish documenting anything :-)
20:28 * [Tux] waves back
20:28 lizmat moritz: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-02-19#i_10143169  re not reporting tags: seems like a useful function to have?
20:28 moritz lizmat: +1
20:29 [Coke] anyone here created a portfile for macports recently?
20:30 moritz why do Thread.run and .finish return self, but .yield returns Nil?
20:31 [Tux] does \s include Unicode whitespace like U+0000A0 NO-BREAK SPACE and U+00200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE ?
20:31 moritz yes
20:31 [Tux] that explains
20:31 moritz m: say so chr(0x200b) ~~ /\s/
20:31 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«False␤»
20:31 moritz huh
20:31 moritz m: say so chr(0xA0) ~~ /\s/
20:31 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«True␤»
20:32 jdv79 is there a way to get all signature binding failures instead of just the first one encountered?
20:32 PerlJam moritz: 1/2 yes :)
20:32 [Tux] is m{ <[ \t]> } what I should write to just test for space and tab?
20:33 moritz [Tux]: whitespace isn't significant in char classes
20:33 moritz <[\ \t]>
20:33 [Tux] I was affraid for that
20:33 [Tux] ok
20:33 [Tux] thanks
20:33 lizmat m: say uniprop chr(0x200b); say uniprop chr(0xA0)  # [Tux]  no "s" in the first one, so no match
20:33 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«Cf␤Zs␤»
20:33 jnthn jdv79: Any it figures out at compile time, it should report. At runtime it's an exception if we fail to bind.
20:34 jnthn m: sub foo(Int $x) { }; foo(1.2); foo('omg')
20:34 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Calling 'foo' will never work with argument types (Rat)␤    Expected: :(Int $x)␤at /tmp/qIAEM5Jexe:1␤------> 3sub foo(Int $x) { }; 7⏏5foo(1.2); foo('omg')␤Calling 'foo' will never work with argument types (str)␤    Expe…»
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: f4c18a3 | (Steve Mynott)++ | / (3 files):
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: import pi_sequential_iteration
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/f4c18a38b7
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: c394d33 | (Steve Mynott)++ | perl5/pi_sequential_iteration:
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: tweaks to p5
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/c394d33dd0
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: 3d8c962 | (Steve Mynott)++ | / (5 files):
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: scale fix
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/3d8c962393
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: da84654 | japhb++ | / (3 files):
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: Merge pull request #22 from stmuk/master
20:34 dalek perl6-bench:
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: SCALE added
20:34 dalek perl6-bench: review: https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/commit/da84654518
20:34 jdv79 what i mean is if ther are multiple reasons the binding fails could i get that list instead of the first one
20:35 cschwenz joined #perl6
20:35 FROGGS m: say so chr(0x200c) ~~ /\s/
20:35 camelia rakudo-moar 05f639: OUTPUT«False␤»
20:35 jnthn jdv79: Not at present, no. The bind check is also used for multi-dispatch dis-ambig, so it is currently optimized for fail fast.
20:35 jnthn jdv79: We may be able to do something smarter.
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom: 1146597 | lizmat++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix for #123884, [Tux]++
20:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1146597d0f
20:36 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=123884
20:36 jdv79 ok.  just curious about maybe using a sig for a (web/other) service arg validation
20:36 jnthn jdv79: And if we throw a typed exception for such things then it can always re-bind if we request more info.
20:36 dalek doc: b3f38d3 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
20:36 dalek doc: Document Thread.
20:36 dalek doc:
20:36 dalek doc: I love small classes.
20:36 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b3f38d3108
20:37 jdv79 in that cae i would like to report all errors with the args at once instead of forcing the client to retry after fixing the current error..
20:37 jnthn jdv79: So there's nothing absolutely preventing us from doing some smarter thing here in the future...
20:37 jdv79 not a big deal
20:37 jnthn moritz: "...and I can not lie"? :)
20:37 jdv79 ok
20:38 moritz jnthn: unresolved cultural reference at "...and I can not lie"
20:38 jnthn Aww :)
20:39 jnthn Hm, is Thread.yield() actually on Thread:D...
20:39 [Coke] Sr. Mix-a-lot reference.
20:39 jnthn No
20:39 jnthn method yield(Thread:U:) {
20:39 PerlJam jdv79: you could probably do it manually with EVAL and a little manual dispatch if you *really* wanted to.  :)
20:39 moritz jnthn: huh.
20:39 jnthn moritz: You can only yield yourself.
20:39 skids .oO(Sr mixin a lot?)
20:39 moritz jnthn: what does it do then? yield the current thread?
20:39 jnthn moritz: Yes.
20:40 pecastro joined #perl6
20:40 jnthn It's a pretty directly call down to pthread_yield() or sched_yield()
20:40 moritz ah, that's why it doesn'T return self.
20:40 dalek doc: f2559a6 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Thread.pod:
20:40 dalek doc: Correct docs for Thread.yield, jnthn++
20:40 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f2559a6efe
20:40 jdv79 yeah, i guess just iterating on the bind while removing or resolving the current failure but seems too manual to be fun
20:41 jnthn "Creates, returns and runs a new C<Thread>." may be clear as "Creates, runs, and returns..."
20:41 jnthn Since returns is the last thing the method does. Can be worth a note that execute may or may not have commenced at the point the method returns.
20:43 dalek doc: d50021e | moritz++ | lib/Type/Thread.pod:
20:43 dalek doc: Improve Thread.start docs, jnthn++
20:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d50021e2ca
20:44 moritz wouldn't it be nice if $thread.finish returned the return value from the thread code?
20:45 _mg_ joined #perl6
20:45 dalek doc: 0a0399f | moritz++ | lib/Type/Thread.pod:
20:45 dalek doc: Document Thread.finish
20:45 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0a0399f9ae
20:46 jnthn moritz: Maybe, otoh if you want "nice" then use something higher level...
20:46 moritz jnthn: agreed
20:46 tgt There're a couple of typos: new and start return Tread:D instead of Thread:D
20:47 Mouq joined #perl6
20:47 moritz tgt: will you fix it, or should I?
20:47 [Sno] for the visitors of QAH:
20:47 [Sno] I negotiated that with Rademacher - I get 6 developer boxes of Homepilot2 for Berlin
20:47 [Sno] so we (interested people) can play with cross-compiling perl5 and perl6 and modules of both
20:47 andreoss left #perl6
20:49 lizmat [Sno]++  (tell me about Homepilot2 next week in Cologne :-)
20:49 dalek doc: f0d6f43 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Thread.pod:
20:49 dalek doc: Fix typos. tgt++
20:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f0d6f432e8
20:49 tgt Heh. Beat me to it. :)
20:49 jnthn moritz++ # documentation work
20:49 [Sno] lizmat: it's the home-automation box I talked about
20:50 lizmat ah, ok  :-)
20:50 PerlJam lizmat++ (because I was reading the release announcement again and thought you deserved even more kudos :)
20:50 [Sno] it runs java and perl5 now, so my goals for next 6 weeks are: build openjdk from source, build moarvm, build nqp and rakudo*
20:55 moritz jnthn: now that the release is through, should I merge my birdless branch?
20:55 moritz (the one that removes parrot support from rakudo)
20:56 lizmat moritz: +1
20:56 El_Che moritz: you're the type of guy that explains his jokes apparently :)
20:56 Kristien I think grep on a type should create a subset!
20:56 [Coke] why are we removing? I thought we were only going to deal with it as changes required.
20:56 grondilu Can't I use unsigned integers with NativeCall?
20:57 grondilu if I use uint32 I get an error, I have to use int32 apparently.
20:57 FROGGS grondilu: what type of error?
20:58 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
20:58 skids Use int32 then once you have the result, +& with 0xffffffff, for now, is what I have done.
20:58 [Sno] moritz: today I thought about NativeCall / AutoConf(Perlish) - and I mind a Perl6 requirement Perl5 doesn't have - name mangeling on loading c++ code
20:58 FROGGS [Coke]: we will break perl6-p one way or the other... removing it at once cleanly is sane I think
20:58 FROGGS [Sno]: that's what I am currently implementing
20:58 jnthn moritz, [Coke]: In the next 1-2 weeks I'll merge the native-ref work. That *will* bust the build on r-p, short of anybody jumping up to do a bunch of not-easy work.
20:59 lizmat as stated by pmichaud: support on parrot can only be revived by full nqp support
20:59 lizmat in that sense, I don't think parrot is different from the work on the js backend, now
20:59 [Sno] FROGGS: how do you guess the mangled names for aCC? or iCC?
21:00 FROGGS [Sno]: I am currently implementing the naming scheme for g++, so, we will have compiler guessing at some point to guess the naming scheme
21:01 FROGGS (g++ on linux I might need to say)
21:01 geekosaur [Sno], as of C++11 it is not per compiler
21:01 [Sno] geekosaur: but C++11 is far away in wildlife ;)
21:02 [Sno] I check the reference manual tomorrow to see how it's specified machine independent
21:03 geekosaur [Sno], not quite that simple. every platform (arch+OS, roughly) now has to define a C++ ABI to which all C++ compilers adhere
21:03 [Sno] geekosaur: that makes sense :)
21:03 [Sno] how does the loader from FROGGS guesses that API?
21:03 hoelzro FROGGS: g++ >2 on Linux, I think, even =)
21:04 PerlJam moritz: +1 to merging birdless
21:04 moritz I'll do it as a squash merge, so that it'll be easier to revert, should it be necessary
21:04 geekosaur the switch to c++11 actually causes breakaege on some platforms (e.g. OS X, where C++11 implies clang and libc++ but pre-C++11 uses gcc and LGPL2-ed versions of libstdc++)
21:05 geekosaur (all the C++11-compatible libstdc++-s are GPL3 and Apple considers them toxic)
21:05 PerlJam moritz: though, I'm not sure those glossary items should be removed rather than amended to note that they are only of historical significance.
21:05 [Sno] geekosaur: btw, that's the typical situation nowadays - there is a mangling scheme per OS (vendor defined) and compilers support that - some compilers (g++) support the OSS type, too (additional)
21:06 [Sno] Windows, AIX, Solaris, HPUX ... will have the same problems
21:07 [Sno] and then there're legacy environments (OpenVMS, Tru64, IRIX) where most likely no c++11 will find the way on it ^^
21:07 grondilu FROGGS: "Unknown type uint32 used in native call."
21:08 sqirrel joined #perl6
21:08 FROGGS grondilu: ohh, that's easily fixable I guess
21:08 PerlJam moritz: I just noticed that birdless changed the copyright in LICENSE to read "2000-2006" for some reason.  Probably shouldn't do that either  ;)
21:08 [Sno] geekosaur: we discussed with moritz and nine on FOSDEM the idea of perl6 template modules for native-calls combined with Config::AutoConf to determine the right basic types for unknown, complexer ones etc.
21:08 lizmat PerlJam moritz : probably missed TimToady's update of that somehow
21:09 FROGGS grondilu: rakudo/lib/NativeCall.pm line 76 or so just needs a mapping from uint32 to int
21:09 FROGGS grondilu: the backends check for unsignedness IIRC
21:09 moritz [Sno]: you must be confusing me with somebody else; I wasn't at FOSDEM
21:09 [Sno] and in addition to that I think, a probe for the system (environments's) name mangling should be reasonable either
21:09 PerlJam yeah, I didn't look to see where birdless branched
21:09 lizmat moritz: or didn't you merge all changes to 2015.02 yet
21:09 moritz lizmat: TimToady's update to what?
21:10 [Sno] lizmat should know the name of him ;)
21:10 lizmat the copyright date
21:10 * [Sno] is bad in names
21:10 moritz oh
21:10 lizmat 0a7fba609b74299ab7357cefea5797d37f09c9e6
21:10 moritz I have a local rebase of the birdless branch on top of nom
21:10 moritz it's correct there
21:10 lizmat :-)
21:11 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 25 commits to rakudo/birdless-2 by moritz
21:11 moritz that's the one I want to squash-merge
21:11 grondilu FYI, I'm trying to do some SDL2 mapping.  I was starting to the most simple stuff ever:  https://gist.github.com/grondilu/ef216b34bb650e8dd283 and failed to translate it into Perl6 with NativeCall: https://gist.github.com/grondilu/1112f854a5d66c993dc8
21:12 [Sno] damn, the both were FROGGS and nine_
21:12 dalek rakudo/nom: d386900 | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
21:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Deprecate IO::Handle.input-line-separator for .nl
21:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d386900bf8
21:12 grondilu strangely enough it displays a window with no error but the size of the window is wrong.
21:12 lizmat sorry moritz
21:12 FROGGS [Sno]: we sat together with nine, [Tux] and leont
21:14 PerlJam moritz: looking at the diff that shows all of that parrot stuff removed makes me irrationally happy for some reason :)
21:14 * lizmat will now go off to avoid further interference with moritz' work
21:14 jnthn lizmat: I...don't know that you did? :)
21:15 lizmat I committed to now just after moritz merged
21:15 lizmat *nom
21:15 lizmat so he needs to do it again?
21:15 jnthn If he's doing a squash merge he only has to git pull --rebase and then no problem :)
21:15 moritz t/spec/S06-other/introspection.t fails a test here
21:15 lizmat *phew*
21:16 moritz is that new?
21:16 lizmat it was clean when I released it  :-)
21:16 lizmat (apart from known flappers)
21:17 moritz not ok 7 - you can invoke through introspection
21:17 grondilu oh apparently it works if I declare the parameters as 'int' and not 'Int'
21:17 lizmat is ok with nom on moar / OSX
21:17 * moritz retries on nom
21:18 dalek rakudo/cpp: 9260d57 | FROGGS++ | / (3 files):
21:18 dalek rakudo/cpp: add trait "is cpp-const"
21:18 dalek rakudo/cpp:
21:18 dalek rakudo/cpp: This affects how parameter names are mangled when looking up symbols.
21:18 dalek rakudo/cpp: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9260d572c0
21:21 FROGGS gnight
21:21 moritz lizmat: ok, merge will have to wait, there's a regression
21:21 moritz lizmat: don't hold back on other stuff
21:21 masak TimToady: right, you're right (about CHECK and LINK running later than splice time).
21:22 masak TimToady: I was just thinking whether there is already a phaser that could be used to fire things off at splice time.
21:22 masak (please don't go spec SPLICE just because I said this. need to think more.) :)
21:23 PerlJam masak: what makes you think he *would* spec a SPLICE phaser?   How many times did we talk about a COMPOSE phaser before one was specced?  :)
21:24 lizmat moritz: I won't, but first I'll get some sleep&
21:24 moritz lizmat: good night then :-)
21:24 masak PerlJam: I think I've been burned a bit by the "QBEGIN" discussions. ;)
21:24 masak 'night, lizmat
21:24 moritz PerlJam: there's a COMPOSE phaser specced? :-)
21:24 masak yes, I think so.
21:24 PerlJam moritz: there is now
21:25 jnthn o/ lizmat
21:25 * jnthn is vaguely aware of the COMPOSE phaser thingy
21:25 PerlJam moritz: S04:1418
21:25 synopsebot Link: http://design.perl6.org/S04.html#line_1418
21:25 PerlJam FWIW
21:27 moritz .tell FROGGS please remove NativeCall as a dependency from Inline::C. kthxbye
21:27 yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
21:28 moritz arnsholt: please remove NativeCall as a dependecy from Net::ZMQ, it is now shipped with rakudo
21:30 moritz avuserow: please remove NativeCall as a dependecy from perl6-audio-taglib-simple and perl6-compress-snappy, it is now shipped with rakudo
21:30 telex joined #perl6
21:30 * moritz has a feeling this doesn't scale
21:30 PerlJam heh
21:31 dalek DBIish: 1912800 | moritz++ | META.info:
21:31 dalek DBIish: remove NativeCall as a dependency
21:31 dalek DBIish:
21:31 dalek DBIish: it is now shipped with rakudo.
21:31 dalek DBIish: review: https://github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/1912800af2
21:34 dalek rakudo/birdless-2: 5099385 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:
21:34 dalek rakudo/birdless-2: Partially revert "remove some parrot from BOOTSTRAP.nqp"
21:34 dalek rakudo/birdless-2:
21:34 dalek rakudo/birdless-2: This reverts commit 6f5217ab26b23b39ae9353160003c1fd69fdd8e6.
21:34 dalek rakudo/birdless-2: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5099385d38
21:35 moritz (git bisect)++
21:35 vendethiel moritz++
21:36 Kristien (git bisect) is an rvalue
21:37 geekosaur but they're implicitly used as keys...
21:38 Kristien m: my $s = 'Hello, brutal world!'; substr($s, 7, 6) = 'gorgeous'; say $s;
21:38 camelia rakudo-moar 114659: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Str␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/OQ8WyetDPk:1␤␤»
21:38 Kristien :(
21:39 moritz Kristien: substr-rw exists
21:39 Kristien :O
21:39 moritz m: my $s = 'Hello, brutal world!'; substr-rw($s, 7, 6) = 'gorgeous'; say $s;
21:39 camelia rakudo-moar 114659: OUTPUT«Hello, gorgeous world!␤»
21:40 Kristien m: my $s = 'Hello, brutal world!'; substr-rw($s, 14, 5) = 'gorgeous'; say $s;
21:40 camelia rakudo-moar 114659: OUTPUT«Hello, brutal gorgeous!␤»
21:40 dalek rakudo/nom: 9a75383 | moritz++ | / (79 files):
21:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove parrot support from Rakudo.
21:40 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Please see http://pmthium.com/2015/02/suspending-rakudo-parrot/
21:40 dalek rakudo/nom: for some background information
21:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9a75383d91
21:41 moritz 79 files changed, 201 insertions(+), 7175 deletions(-)
21:41 moritz and with that, I'll go to sleep&
21:42 jnthn 'night, moritz++
21:42 * jnthn also rests o/
21:42 geekosaur .oO { borgeous }
21:43 hoelzro wow, I knew it was coming, but that's...momentous.
21:45 skids .oO(I am apparently the only one using META6.json.  So lonely.)
21:46 hoelzro .tell pmurias I'm interesting in trying my hand at implementing curlexpad; any pointers on how you want it done?
21:46 yoleaux hoelzro: I'll pass your message to pmurias.
21:46 hoelzro it would be nice if we had a dzil-like tool for generating things like META*
21:47 hoelzro so NQP will continue to support Parrot, I take it?
21:49 japhb hoelzro: If I'm understanding correctly, 1) It's not blocking progress to have partial NQP backends, and 2) It leaves a basis for someone to do the hard work and get back on the support path.
21:49 hoelzro japhb: yeah, that was my understanding too
21:50 hoelzro I was just a little giddy at seeing those #?if parrots removed =)
21:51 dolmen joined #perl6
22:07 pmurias joined #perl6
22:07 pmurias hoelzro: hi
22:07 yoleaux 21:46Z <hoelzro> pmurias: I'm interesting in trying my hand at implementing curlexpad; any pointers on how you want it done?
22:08 pmurias hoelzro: the first step would be to write a good test file for it
22:10 pmurias hoelzro: the we will need to turn hash access from hash['foo'] = 123 to calling a method
22:12 pmurias and then we can compile nqp::curlexpad to new nqp.Curlexpad({'foo':{set: function(value) {foo = value}, get: function() {return foo}})
22:12 jercos I tried to read that as "curl exp ad" three times before it clicked >.>
22:13 pmurias hoelzro: I hope to have a decent chunk of nqp-js hacking time on the weekend
22:20 raiph joined #perl6
22:43 avuserow moritz: will work on making htmlify autodetect Inline::Python and pygments
22:44 avuserow maybe the right thing to do is to write a Python::Pygments module that handles all of that?
22:45 avuserow moritz: do you want running pygments as a subprocess as a fallback for not having Inline::Python? My thought is no, but I can try to keep that around if you want
22:45 avuserow aww, and I just missed moritz++
22:59 japhb Did anyone figure out the "*resolve stage failed for Grammar::Debugger: Dependency Term::ANSIColor is not present in the module ecosystem" problem?
23:01 hoelzro pmurias: ok, I understand now
23:02 hoelzro I don't know how much time I'll have over the weekend (retreating to a cabin in the woods), so maybe I should back off and let you do your thing
23:02 hoelzro unless you have different designs for your nqp-js hacking time?
23:02 masak moritz++ # 7175 deletions
23:04 pmurias hoelzro: curlexpad is not a priority for me
23:04 hoelzro it's the next thing for QASTNode, isn't it?
23:04 raydiak japhb: I just saw your error, but a panda update seems to have fixed it
23:05 TimToady Missing test file: t/spec/S26-documentation/01-delimited.t S26-documentation/02-paragraph.t
23:05 pmurias hoelzro: it's called but it's result is ignored
23:05 hoelzro oh, really?
23:05 hoelzro interesting
23:05 hoelzro still could be good for me to implement =)
23:06 pmurias it's used when having rules in roles
23:07 pmurias so it's needed but not immediately
23:08 hoelzro pmurias: is there somewhere else I should be concentrating?
23:08 pmurias hoelzro: one whatever is the most fun for you
23:08 pmurias s/one/on
23:09 hoelzro =)
23:09 hoelzro works for me!
23:11 pmurias everything will need to be implemented in the end
23:12 hoelzro good point =)
23:12 hoelzro I would just like to help with a bootstrapping nqp, and then a rakudo-js
23:12 hoelzro decommute&
23:18 kurahaupo1 joined #perl6
23:18 adu joined #perl6
23:28 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:29 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
23:29 fhelmberger joined #perl6
23:30 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 125af49 | coke++ | log/ (14 files):
23:30 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
23:30 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/125af49b5c
23:35 timotimo all the modules look clean
23:35 timotimo sounds good
23:41 * grondilu wrote http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Image_noise#Perl_6
23:43 timotimo oh lord, you're using RenderDrawPoint for pixels? :)
23:43 [Coke] so with something like nqp that can have multiple backends, if we were to create ports, should we create one per backend? so rakudo-moar would use nqp-moar would use MoarVM ?
23:44 grondilu timotimo: could not figure out how to do it otherwise.
23:45 grondilu the C code was in SDL1.2 and I could not translate it in SDL2 (I don't have 1.2 on my machine)
23:45 grondilu s/was/is/
23:53 timotimo grondilu: personally i'd suggest loading raw pixel data from a VMArray-repr'd thing (like a Buf) or a CArray into a texture and just presenting that
23:55 timotimo also, i'd think having two nested for loops would be better, performance-wise, than having an X'd for loop
23:56 TimToady could probably do the random stuff in another thread
23:56 timotimo otherwise, SDL_RenderDrawPoints exists and can get you less overhead than calling SDL_RenderDrawPoint once per point
23:57 TimToady timotimo: feel free to fix--it's a wiki, after all :)
23:59 TimToady ooh, S17-scheduler/every.t appears to have flapped on JVM!

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