Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-02-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:43 raydiak .tell tadzik bugfix PR up for rakudobrew
00:43 yoleaux raydiak: I'll pass your message to tadzik.
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01:13 timotimo i don't have access to rakudobrew :(
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02:15 dalek ecosystem: 032e0ea | (Andrew Egeler)++ | META.list:
02:15 dalek ecosystem: Add XML::Signature
02:15 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/032e0ea4d1
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02:39 dalek doc: 694d8b9 | TimToady++ | lib/Language/5to6.pod:
02:39 dalek doc: explain differences in conditionals/while
02:39 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/694d8b9815
02:46 dalek doc: 9137e59 | TimToady++ | lib/Language/5to6.pod:
02:46 dalek doc: note that unless doesn't allow else
02:46 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9137e59001
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02:48 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:10 dalek doc: 8ed9913 | TimToady++ | lib/Language/5to6.pod:
03:10 dalek doc: some notes on "now"
03:10 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8ed991309c
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03:28 dalek rakudo/native-ref: 1bb9e5a | hoelzro++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
03:28 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Fix S26 errors
03:28 dalek rakudo/native-ref:
03:28 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Calling create_signature_and_params overwrites $*PRECEDING_DECL with
03:28 dalek rakudo/native-ref: the final parameter object in the signature, so we need to preserve
03:28 dalek rakudo/native-ref: it so that trailing POD can still attach to the routine.
03:28 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1bb9e5a23e
03:28 hoelzro .tell jnthn I fixed the S26 failures, but I didn't manage to get rid of the dummy stuff
03:28 yoleaux hoelzro: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
03:28 hoelzro .tell jnthn I think you and I will have to have a chat about the best way to do that
03:28 yoleaux hoelzro: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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03:42 dalek doc: b17117b | TimToady++ | lib/Language/5to6.pod:
03:42 dalek doc: s/value/variable/
03:42 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b17117bf8e
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05:47 dalek doc: b693760 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Language/5to6.pod:
05:47 dalek doc: s/scoped/scope/
05:47 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b69376008a
05:49 [ptc] TimToady++   # doc corrections and updates
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06:09 dalek doc: cb85aa2 | TimToady++ | lib/Language/5to6.pod:
06:09 dalek doc: more random tweaks
06:09 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cb85aa290d
06:12 moritz_ \o
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06:34 average joined #perl6
06:34 average hello folks
06:34 average just read an article on Go   http://tmikov.blogspot.ro/2015/02/you-dont-like-googles-go-because-you.html
06:35 average an interesting read. I suppose language designers are a good audience for it since it talks about problems that Go has
06:35 average hopefuly Perl6 will learn from that article what it can
06:37 TimToady I don't think we share many problems with Go
06:39 TimToady Go should probably have been named No instead...
06:41 TimToady (btw, that article was posted here several days ago already)
06:43 average i'm sorry to have brought it up again then
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06:55 TimToady no problem, better too many than too few
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07:41 dalek roast: 5a9036a | TimToady++ | S02-literals/quoting-unicode.t:
07:41 dalek roast: test that smart quotes work if balanced
07:41 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5a9036a1e1
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07:57 FROGGS .tell colomon I don't understand how Compress::Zlib::Raw can fail for the smoker... see https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/229dffa2ef287aa08f83
07:57 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to colomon.
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08:04 average FROGGS: maybe Rakudo version differs on the smoker. maybe zlib is missing on the smoker.
08:05 average there needs to be a description of what software is present on the smoker
08:06 FROGGS average: the tests passed like 12 days ago, so I would gess that the zlib is on that box
08:06 FROGGS average: but yeah, the build or test log would be very very helpful here
08:07 FROGGS average: as I understand it the smoker always runs rakudo HEAD
08:07 FROGGS (like what I do)
08:07 nwc10 <aol/>
08:09 average FROGGS: yeah, except HEAD can mean a lot of things
08:12 FROGGS it would also help if the smoker would send reports to this site: http://testers.perl6.org/dist/Compress::Zlib::Raw
08:12 FROGGS (using panda's report functionality)
08:12 sergot morning
08:12 FROGGS morning sergot
08:13 average how do you guys actually keep sticking to the projec(Rakudo) ?
08:13 average I'm surprised to see you all so commited for so much time
08:13 average and so focused
08:14 average don't you have like.. jobs and drink coffee and fall asleep on couches ?
08:14 FROGGS hehe
08:15 FROGGS well, I've got a job and I have three kids (.7m, 3.7y and 5.1y)...
08:16 FROGGS but I'll do what I can when I sit in their room when they are meant to fall asleep, which can takes about 2 hours each evening
08:17 FROGGS and, instead of watching tv or playing games I usually hack until midnight
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08:17 average FROGGS: seriously ?
08:17 FROGGS (just to regret it every other morning)
08:17 FROGGS average: aye
08:17 average amazing..
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08:19 moritz_ much the same here (though with only two kids)
08:20 FROGGS average: and rakudo to me is not just about committing something to an open source project... I learn a lot, every day, and that makes it challenging and fun
08:21 moritz_ also, friendships emerge from the community
08:22 FROGGS true :o)
08:22 FROGGS moritz: that reminds me that we have to meet in person some day :o)
08:22 moritz I've never seen FROGGS in real live, but I'd invite him over without any hesitaiton
08:22 moritz FROGGS: timing :-)
08:22 FROGGS moritz: well, I've seen you once...
08:23 FROGGS at the YAPC::EU in frankfurt, you talked about exceptional exceptions
08:23 moritz FROGGS: if you ever visit the Nürnberg/Fürth area, let me know
08:23 moritz FROGGS: I wasn't at YAPC::EU in Frankfurt :(
08:23 FROGGS ohh...
08:23 FROGGS then I've just seen a video?
08:23 FROGGS mhh....
08:23 moritz might be possible
08:23 FROGGS yeah, probably
08:23 moritz I did talk about exceptions at YAPC::EU in Kiev
08:23 FROGGS ahh
08:24 FROGGS well, at the YAPC::EU in 2012 I heard about Perl 6 for the first time anyway
08:24 nwc10 must be about time for *another* German Perl Workshop in Erlangen soon :-)
08:24 moritz nwc10: well yes, it was 2008 and 2012, so the next one should be 2016
08:25 moritz nwc10: we are... discussing the possibility.
08:25 FROGGS dunno if 2016 is "soon" and if Erlangen.pm would like to do it
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08:25 FROGGS moritz: you are not coming to Dresden, are you?
08:25 nwc10 you get a cycle off in 2100, because it's not a leap year.
08:25 moritz FROGGS: nope :(
08:25 FROGGS :/
08:26 FROGGS I wont be at the yapc::eu this year either
08:26 moritz I'd also like to attend the QA hackathon, but won't make it :(
08:26 FROGGS yeah
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08:29 FROGGS my plan is to attend qa, gpw, and maybe spw, though that depends on general holiday planning with $family
08:34 * moritz hasn't seen timotimo IRL either :(
08:35 FROGGS moritz: then you probably won't have met ven either?
08:35 moritz FROGGS: correct
08:35 average FROGGS: do you get to use those things you learn in some real situation ?
08:35 * Ven looks around
08:35 Ven hi, hi
08:35 average Ven you're missing an n
08:36 moritz average: I'm not FROGGS, but I do :-)
08:36 * Ven has seen timotimo IRL aplenty..:)
08:36 average moritz: in your dayjob ? can you give some examples ?
08:36 FROGGS average: ohh yes...
08:37 moritz average: compilers are all about parsing text and then transforming data structures
08:37 FROGGS average: I do not just learn about Perl 6 (the language), I learn a lot about C (and C++ nowadays), and also a lot about programming patterns for $dayjob problems
08:38 FROGGS jnthn++ for a very good knowhow transferability
08:38 moritz average: I do that basically daily. Read some config files, or exports of data sets from other programs, munge them together, detect errors
08:38 moritz average: also things like collaborative working, automating things (just think of camelia, our doc.perl6.org builds, ...)
08:39 moritz usage of ticket systems for documentation and communication
08:39 moritz average: also, doing a bit programming language design (around TimToady++, no less) gives you a keen eye for programming languages, which in turn can help learning new languages
08:39 FROGGS ... or understand old languages better
08:40 moritz aye
08:41 average interesting
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08:42 moritz also I learned a lot about abstractions
08:42 moritz and how closures actually work
08:42 FROGGS .tell Kristien do you have something special in mind except for the obvious? - FROGGS: also have fun with union members!
08:42 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to Kristien.
08:43 FROGGS yes, the "where to put things" I basically learned here...
08:58 * jnthn has also learned plenty :)
08:58 yoleaux 03:28Z <hoelzro> jnthn: I fixed the S26 failures, but I didn't manage to get rid of the dummy stuff
08:58 yoleaux 03:28Z <hoelzro> jnthn: I think you and I will have to have a chat about the best way to do that
08:58 jnthn hoelzro: \o/
08:59 nwc10 jnthn: ASAN likes nativeref
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09:01 jnthn nwc10: Yay. You did spectest too, I guess?
09:02 * jnthn can't remember exactly what gets run in the nwc10++ ASAN runs
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09:02 nwc10 yes. IIRC one failed that doesn't fail with nom
09:02 jnthn exceptions.t prolly
09:02 nwc10 spectest. But wierd errors fails. And I have not been digging on that one
09:02 jnthn I'm just behind on latest commits in nom
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09:03 Ven o/, #perl6
09:04 jnthn hi Ven
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09:31 * itz returns to digging in the perl5 banking salt mines and wishes he was in the bright light of perl6 above
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09:34 Ulti ^
09:39 jnthn .tell hoelzro Yay, spectest in native-ref now looks sehr gut. Thanks!
09:39 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to hoelzro.
09:40 mkrull Hello. Where do I find the docs for the Perl 6 standard library? Is there even such a thing or is that implementation dependent? Specifically I am searching for rakudos IO::Socket docs but I am somewhat lost googling.
09:41 moritz mkrull: doc.perl6.org is the most complete right now, though it doesn't document IO::Socket yet
09:41 moritz mkrull: http://design.perl6.org/S32/IO.html talks a tiny about IO::Socket, but not much
09:43 mkrull moritz: ok. I took a look at some packages that use IO::Socket but that is a very limited view. Is there a test suite I could check out?
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09:46 moritz mkrull: https://github.com/perl6/roast/ see the S32-io/ dir
09:46 moritz mkrull: and doc contributions would be *very* welcome :-)
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09:50 mkrull moritz: Thanks. Contributions to the docs go to? Maybe https://github.com/perl6/doc ?
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09:54 jnthn mkrull: Yes
09:54 moritz mkrull: yes, exactly
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10:13 masak good antenoon, #perl6
10:13 FROGGS hi masak
10:14 dalek rakudo/native-ref: 245c9ea | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
10:14 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Add missing :node(...)
10:14 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/245c9ea58b
10:14 dalek rakudo/native-ref: af29414 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
10:14 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Remove dead code.
10:14 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/af29414b0a
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10:18 * FROGGS .oO( bury dead code )
10:18 FROGGS dunno why I have to think about Dobby now
10:18 FROGGS I probably read too much Harry Potter...
10:19 dalek roast: e30cc14 | jnthn++ | S12-attributes/native.t:
10:19 dalek roast: Various tests for natively typed attributes.
10:19 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e30cc14f94
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: c2673d7 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Support defaults on native attributes.
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref:
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: We're somewhat lacking in a way to represent unassigned for native
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: int and num attributes at the moment, so there's something of a
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: semi-predicate bug here. Not entirely sure what to do about that;
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: maybe we'll simply have to live with it.
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c2673d7366
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: 9d00e31 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Run S12-attributes/native.t.
10:22 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9d00e3136e
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10:35 dalek rakudo/native-ref: 730ec57 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
10:35 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Make twigil-less natively typed attrs work.
10:35 dalek rakudo/native-ref:
10:35 dalek rakudo/native-ref: This also adds the missing self availability check for the twigil-less
10:35 dalek rakudo/native-ref: path and eliminates some code dupe.
10:35 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/730ec5737f
10:35 dalek roast: 6b73649 | jnthn++ | S12-attributes/native.t:
10:35 dalek roast: Tests for non-twigil native attribute decls.
10:35 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6b73649f01
10:38 jnthn Hmm, was there not an outstanding issue involving the REPL and natively typed lexicals?
10:38 moritz > my int $x = 4;
10:38 moritz 4
10:38 moritz > $x
10:38 moritz 0
10:39 tadzik . o O ( solve for $x )
10:39 yoleaux 00:43Z <raydiak> tadzik: bugfix PR up for rakudobrew
10:39 tadzik oh :)
10:39 jnthn > my int $a = 42;
10:39 jnthn 42
10:39 jnthn > $a
10:39 jnthn 42
10:40 jnthn So...apparently I fixed it.
10:40 masak \o/
10:40 tadzik raydiak++
10:40 jnthn I don't remember fixing it.
10:40 tadzik jnthn++ :)
10:40 jnthn :)
10:40 masak the "apparently I fixed it" maneuver! :P
10:40 masak apparently jnthn++ :P
10:40 jnthn Thanks for confirming it's bust in nom, anwyays.
10:40 tadzik classic jnthn :P
10:41 jnthn Quick poll on preferences
10:42 jnthn I've now got native-ref at the point where native is rw args work, as does is rw on native attributes, plus things like list-assigning to Buf elements works out
10:43 jnthn The serious remaining bug is on decont handling of native return values
10:43 jnthn Beyond that, it's JVM porting and then digging into the optimizers/JIT to deal with performance regressions.
10:44 jnthn I was going to also do native arrays in the branch, but I'm tempted now to do what's needed to land what I've got done so far in nom, then afterwards work on the native arrays. Sound sane?
10:48 [ptc] m: my @moo = []; say @moo.elems;  say [].elems;
10:48 camelia rakudo-moar 546000: OUTPUT«1␤0␤»
10:49 [ptc] I'm confused as to why a seemingly empty array gives a non-zero .elems value.  What am I misunderstanding here?
10:51 jnthn [ptc]: [] is an array itself, it doesn't flatten
10:51 jnthn m: my @moo = []; say @moo.perl
10:51 camelia rakudo-moar 546000: OUTPUT«Array.new([])␤»
10:51 jnthn m: my @moo = (); say @moo.perl
10:51 camelia rakudo-moar 546000: OUTPUT«Array.new()␤»
10:52 jnthn Same as in Perl 5, fwiw.
10:52 jnthn perl -E "say length(my @a = [])"
10:52 jnthn 1
10:52 jnthn uh :)
10:52 jnthn perl -E "say scalar(my @a = [])"
10:52 jnthn 1
10:52 jnthn perl -E "say scalar(my @a = ())"
10:52 jnthn 0
10:52 jnthn :)
10:53 [ptc] jnthn: ok, thanks for the explanation.  However, why does [].elems give 0?
10:53 jnthn [ptc]: Because it's an empty array
10:53 jnthn m: my @moo = []; say @moo[0].elems;
10:53 camelia rakudo-moar 546000: OUTPUT«0␤»
10:54 jnthn my @a = [] # put an empty array, as an item, into @a
10:54 [ptc] so when one doesn't assign [] to a variable, it flattens and not otherwise?
10:54 [ptc] jnthn: hang on, now I think I get it
10:55 jnthn No, it's not really about flattening. Method calls always "see through" to the underlying thing.
10:55 [ptc] ah, ok, so the [] is an item in the array.  Ok that I get
10:56 [ptc] jnthn: thanks :-)
10:57 nwc10 jnthn: native arrays are currently completely unimplemented?
10:58 jnthn nwc10: Yeah
10:58 jnthn nwc10: Though I've now got most of the pieces to implement them.
10:58 nwc10 OK, I'd recommend "do land", as that's "Release early, release often"
10:58 jnthn Yeah, that was my feeling too
10:58 anaeem1__ joined #perl6
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11:00 masak jnthn: re 'Sound sane?' -- YES
11:01 nwc10 t/spec/S32-exceptions/misc.rakudo.moar
11:01 nwc10 Failed tests:  274, 281
11:05 jnthn nwc10: Those two are down to missing commits from nom
11:13 dalek rakudo/nom: aff3d16 | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
11:13 dalek rakudo/nom: Make List.kv completely flatten its values
11:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aff3d166e6
11:13 lizmat as instigated by discussion started at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-02-24#i_10169279
11:14 lizmat mjreed++ japhb++ timotimo++
11:17 anaeem___ joined #perl6
11:18 anaeem1__ joined #perl6
11:18 moritz jnthn: re straw poll: landing native-ref first sounds sane to me
11:28 pecastro joined #perl6
11:32 FROGGS jnthn: please go ahead and merge... I wanna play with that stuff :o)
11:33 FROGGS (and we also need to get everything in a good shape until next compiler and star release)
11:33 lizmat TimToady: re http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-02-24#i_10169420  about grep-index vs grep :k
11:33 jnthn FROGGS: Well, merge needs some work yet
11:33 lizmat I can see the consistency, but I was also under the impression that adding named params is a bit of a code smell
11:34 jnthn I suspect I can get it mergeable by the weekend.
11:34 lizmat in any case, we have a problem if we want to do the same for first-index and last-index
11:34 lizmat as "last:k" is at least from a readability point of view, ambiguous?
11:34 jnthn Provided the sort-of-cold-fever thingy I think I've failed to really get continues to not really happen, at least. :)
11:35 FROGGS jnthn: sure, no hurry :o)
11:35 lizmat wrt to native-ref merge, +1 from me
11:35 jnthn OK, I'll work towards that. Thanks.
11:35 lizmat I could use it in the newio branch  :-)
11:38 FROGGS *g*
11:42 dalek doc: 3a1f29a | moritz++ | lib/Language/variables.pod:
11:42 dalek doc: Fix intra-document Link. Closes #52
11:42 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3a1f29a57d
11:43 * jnthn is really happy to see all the doc work that's going on
11:46 tadzik sergot: does your recent MoarVM patch fix openssl?
11:47 leont joined #perl6
11:51 timotimo o/
11:52 * timotimo looks into fine-tuning the spesh allocator for less wasted memory
11:52 * timotimo is going to build a little analysis tool/visualization
11:52 timotimo that idea almost wouldn't let me sleep last night
11:53 masak :)
11:56 FROGGS timotimo: that might be a good sign
12:02 timotimo m: say "before: {87872/1024} MB"
12:02 camelia rakudo-moar aff3d1: OUTPUT«before: 85.8125 MB␤»
12:02 [Tux] m: use Test;my Str $s;is($s,Str,"init");done;
12:02 camelia rakudo-moar aff3d1: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value $got of type Str in string context  in sub is at lib/Test.pm:113␤␤use of uninitialized value $expected of type Str in string context  in sub is at lib/Test.pm:113␤␤ok 1 - init␤1..1␤»
12:03 timotimo m: say "after: {85144/1024} MB"
12:03 camelia rakudo-moar aff3d1: OUTPUT«after: 83.148438 MB␤»
12:03 [Tux] can I RT that as a feature request to not warn but do as expected?
12:03 timotimo a tiny bit more than 2 megabytes saved; not sure if that's really worth it
12:03 lizmat [Tux]: please do
12:03 timotimo we don't have an isa?
12:04 timotimo oh
12:04 timotimo you want to check that it's ... yeah, i get it
12:04 timotimo that's a legit bug indeed
12:05 masak not so sure.
12:06 masak &is stringifies.
12:06 masak I think what you want is `ok $s === Str`
12:06 psch \o
12:06 moritz [Tux]: is() does as string comparison. It's by design that it warns
12:07 moritz [Tux]: you can use is_deeply for comparing type objects
12:07 [Tux] the "probelm with $s === Str is that it doesn't show expected vs got
12:08 moritz hence is_deeply
12:08 [Tux] «expected "foo", got Str» is way more helpful than "fail"
12:08 [Tux] is_deeply it will be
12:08 [Tux] IIRC it didn't work back in October, but I'll try again
12:09 * masak honestly wouldn't've thought to use &is_deeply there
12:09 moritz m: use Test; plan 1; is_deeply Str, Str, 'Look, Tux, a Str';
12:09 camelia rakudo-moar aff3d1: OUTPUT«1..1␤ok 1 - Look, Tux, a Str␤»
12:09 timotimo yeah, "is_deeply" is weird
12:09 timotimo for this case
12:09 [Tux] $work calls :(
12:09 [Tux] back in a bit
12:10 moritz well, we could call it &is-structurally-equivalent, but that would kill all the fun using it, I fear
12:10 psch and &is becomes &is-string-value-equivalent
12:10 psch yay disambiguation
12:10 moritz aye
12:10 moritz I meant /aye\
12:11 timotimo mhh
12:11 timotimo heyo psch
12:11 dalek rakudo/nom: 6662cdc | lizmat++ | src/core/array_slice.pm:
12:11 dalek rakudo/nom: Make foo[] return self as with foo{}
12:11 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6662cdcae8
12:11 psch o/ timotimo
12:11 timotimo how are you on this fine day?
12:12 psch timotimo: i'm ok, if frustrated with not-perl6-stuff
12:12 sqirrel joined #perl6
12:12 dalek roast: 31ab3dc | lizmat++ | S02-lists/tree.t:
12:12 dalek roast: Mark regressed test as todo
12:12 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/31ab3dc07a
12:12 * masak has some improvements he wants to make to &is_deeply
12:13 timotimo :(
12:13 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
12:15 * [Tux] would not have expected stringification in is().
12:15 jnthn timotimo: 2MB is a big saving
12:16 mls joined #perl6
12:16 masak |Tux|: I've occasionally felt it's weird, but it's also oddly universal.
12:16 jnthn timotimo: How'd you get it?
12:16 masak |Tux|: but yeah, it's a bit of a holdover from p5 in a way.
12:17 moritz also a result of is_deeply/cmp being *very* strict
12:17 * masak can say "holdover" without implying that 6 > 5 :)
12:17 moritz masak: you can also say "legacy" without implying that 6 > 5 :-)
12:17 * [Tux] blames you guys for http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1117735
12:17 masak I shudder to think how fundamentally roast would break if we made &is stricter now.
12:17 timotimo jnthn: made (only) the first spesh alloc block 1/4th of the size of the others
12:18 timotimo i'm doing some more precise measurements now; the previous measurements only included the alloc behavior of spesh graphs we'd destroy before the program ends
12:21 nwc10 masak: is there an automated way to measure the breakage?
12:21 moritz nwc10: sure; do the changes, run a spectest :-)
12:22 nwc10 oh oops, I misread "roast" as "panda" and thought "all the ecosystem"
12:23 moritz oh well, the ecosystem would have fallout too
12:23 moritz I forgot that :-)
12:23 sergot tadzik: nope, it's not related to openssl :(
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12:25 * [Tux] imagines «!$expected.defined && !$got.defined && $got.^name eq $expected.^name and return True;» before the strinigication would not break a single test
12:28 * lizmat is spectesting a fix to Test::is
12:28 timotimo m: say "with not buggy allocator: {83780/1024} MB"
12:28 camelia rakudo-moar aff3d1: OUTPUT«with not buggy allocator: 81.816406 MB␤»
12:28 timotimo more savings!
12:28 timotimo all i needed to do was not mess up the code! :)
12:28 virtualsue_ joined #perl6
12:28 masak should've thought about that ages ago! :D
12:28 timotimo agreed!
12:29 lizmat timotimo++
12:29 FROGGS tadzik / sergot: are you talking about the opened openssl issue?
12:29 masak maybe we need a listop version of prefix:<^>: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=1117750
12:30 * masak is sorely tempted to suggest 'upto'
12:30 timotimo that's for a "say 1", fwiw
12:30 tadzik FROGGS: apparently not :P
12:30 timotimo spesh already does a lot of work for just an "empty" program
12:31 masak also, if prefix:<^> is short for 0..^$N, then the strangely consistent prefix standing for 0..$N must be prefix:<> :P
12:31 FROGGS tadzik: what is the issue ooc?
12:32 * masak .oO( INVISIBUL PREFIX )
12:32 lizmat [Tux]: hmm... quite some spectest breakage with new improved is()
12:32 [Tux] sorry for asking
12:32 tadzik FROGGS: 1.0.1f fails tests
12:33 lizmat [Tux]: no pb, the tests seem to be faulty  :-)
12:33 [Tux] OUCH!
12:33 moritz lizmat: how did you improve &is?
12:34 timotimo http://www.perlmonks.org/?displaytype=displaycode;node_id=1117790 - i like this approach
12:34 lizmat moritz [Tux] : https://gist.github.com/lizmat/4088f2f7988252a35332
12:35 lizmat basically, create a candidate for defined $expected and undefined $expected
12:35 FROGGS tadzik: I have that version and it fails a test in t/02-socket.t
12:35 tadzik FROGGS: yeah, exactly :)
12:35 lizmat if $expected is undefined, then we expect $got to also be undefined for a match
12:35 sergot FROGGS: we are not sure it's 1.0.1f, it's just my guess
12:36 lizmat and vice-versa: if $expected is defined, we expect $got to also be defined for a pass
12:36 sergot FROGGS: that's the problem, t/02-socket.t, retupmoca has 1.0.1k and it works there
12:36 lizmat mix of defined/undefined is per definition a failure
12:36 lizmat I thought that would make the most sense
12:37 sergot FROGGS: I started upgrading my openssl but I stopped at some point, dont know why, will try again right now
12:37 [Tux] no: if stringification of a defined objects reurns something undefined, one goes wrong
12:38 lizmat let me rephrase: if there is a mismatch between defined/undefined, it is a Fail
12:38 FROGGS sergot: the BIO CStruct has `int` attributes, which is definitely wrong
12:38 [Tux] class C { int $i = 0; Str { return ?$i ?? $i !! Str; }}
12:38 lizmat if there is a match, then if undefined use === as comparator, if defined, use eq as comparator
12:38 FROGGS sergot: the subs take int also
12:40 jnthn timotimo: (empty program) yes, it may be worth tuning the thresholds, but if doing so please also compare perl6-bench runs before/after too
12:41 timotimo will do, as soon as i've built the analysis tool to see what's really going on
12:41 sergot FROGGS: should it be int32?
12:42 FROGGS sergot: no, long
12:42 FROGGS sergot: gimme a minute or two
12:42 sergot FROGGS: ok
12:43 dalek doc: 45ae7be | paultcochrane++ | lib/Language/traps.pod:
12:43 dalek doc: Add note about assigning the empty array to an array
12:43 dalek doc:
12:43 dalek doc: After noting some confusion in perl6-examples/games/yahtzee.p6 about an
12:43 dalek doc: returned array, the issue was reduced to that discussed here.  Thanks to
12:43 dalek doc: jnthn++ for explaining why this is.
12:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/45ae7bee4a
12:43 dalek doc: aa52704 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Language/ (2 files):
12:43 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
12:43 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/aa52704992
12:45 lizmat m: use Test; my @al is (@a = Nil), Nil, "Setting to Nil returns Nil"  # this test feels faulty to me
12:45 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/HcKXtjkw7W␤Invalid name␤at /tmp/HcKXtjkw7W:1␤------> 3use Test; my @al is 7⏏5(@a = Nil), Nil, "Setting to Nil returns␤»
12:45 timotimo m: say 32768 / 4
12:45 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«8192␤»
12:45 lizmat m: use Test; my @a; is (@a = Nil), Nil, "Setting to Nil returns Nil"  # this test feels faulty to me
12:45 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«ok 1 - Setting to Nil returns Nil␤»
12:46 lizmat it depends on Nil stringifying to ''
12:46 lizmat but it does not actually test what it is supposed to, as @a = Nil is Array
12:47 virtualsue_ joined #perl6
12:48 lizmat does anybody have comments about changes to Test.pm as shown in https://gist.github.com/lizmat/4088f2f7988252a35332?
12:48 hoelzro o/ #perl6
12:48 yoleaux 09:39Z <jnthn> hoelzro: Yay, spectest in native-ref now looks sehr gut. Thanks!
12:48 lizmat basically: if got/expected mismatch in definedness, it's a fail
12:49 timotimo .o( nobody has thought of optimizing Test.pm subs yet, right? )
12:49 lizmat if both defined, then use eq, if both undefined, use ===
12:49 lizmat timotimo: I've looked at it in the past, yes...
12:49 hoelzro lizmat: looks good to me!
12:49 lizmat timotimo: any suggestions ??
12:49 timotimo no, just a random thought that has popped into my head
12:50 FROGGS tadzik / sergot: the openssl bug is not quite a bug...
12:51 FROGGS tadzik / sergot: you are checking for a 200 OK but you receive a 302 Found
12:51 lizmat looking at it now, I *do* wonder why we always box $time_before/$time_after
12:52 timotimo lizmat: we could make a stupid measurement that simply replaces the body of "is" with "output some valid TAP" and see how much faster that is
12:52 * lizmat tries some nativity there
12:52 sergot FROGGS: well, rly? :)
12:52 FROGGS yeah... I'll commit/PR something in a bit
12:53 sergot huh, that's funny :)) thanks FROGGS++
12:54 timotimo damn you, http!
12:55 tadzik hot potato
12:56 timotimo hippity-hop
13:06 timotimo m: say "{4262064 / (1024 * 1024)} megabytes wasted at the very end of allocation blocks"
13:06 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«4.064621 megabytes wasted at the very end of allocation blocks␤»
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: 8fb82a3 | paultcochrane++ | games/connect4.p6:
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: Remove unnecessary method declarations in connect4.p6
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/8fb82a3f53
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: 35ebab6 | paultcochrane++ | games/yahtzee.p6:
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: Replace print/$*IN with prompt in yahtzee.p6
13:07 dalek perl6-examples:
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: Now this example works again with current Rakudo
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/35ebab63b2
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: 80fde24 | paultcochrane++ | bin/run-examples.pl:
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: Stop run-examples.pl from running vim backup files
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/80fde24e8d
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: c343aa5 | paultcochrane++ | cookbook/01strings/01-01substrings.pl:
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: Restore functionality in cookbook/01strings/01-01substrings.pl
13:07 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/c343aa5f07
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13:11 timotimo m: say "used to be: { 15207182 / (1024 * 1024)} megabytes wasted at the very end of allocation blocks"
13:11 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«used to be: 14.5026989 megabytes wasted at the very end of allocation blocks␤»
13:11 timotimo (part of this waste doesn't show up in the maxrss because spesh graphs sometimes do get destroyed during the lifetime of a program)
13:12 jnthn timotimo: The majority really should.
13:12 timotimo in the empty program it's about half
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13:13 timotimo a bit more than half
13:13 jnthn Hm, that suggests a lot of things reach the logging phase, but then get no further than that.
13:15 timotimo do we dispose of the spesh graph when we jit?
13:16 timotimo i was once tasked to investigate something like that, but couldn't make it not explode
13:16 FROGGS tadzik / sergot: I pushed my changed
13:16 FROGGS changes*
13:16 timotimo AFK for a bit
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: 8a5aa4e | paultcochrane++ | cookbook/10subroutines/10-01arguments.pl:
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: Handle positional and named parameters to sub
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/8a5aa4ee20
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: 1eee4b0 | paultcochrane++ | cookbook/10subroutines/10-01arguments.pl:
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: Add required space before opening curly brace
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/1eee4b0293
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: 8271fe9 | paultcochrane++ | cookbook/10subroutines/10-01arguments.pl:
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: No longer require parens around hash in for loop
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/8271fe9dda
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: c0f760b | paultcochrane++ | cookbook/10subroutines/10-01arguments.pl:
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: Remove leading comma in whole() sub
13:16 dalek perl6-examples:
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: This allows the sub to compile and be called.
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/c0f760b844
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: a50caeb | paultcochrane++ | cookbook/10subroutines/10-01arguments.pl:
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: Add extra named_params() example
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/a50caebd83
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: 350297f | paultcochrane++ | cookbook/10subroutines/10-01arguments.pl:
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: Show which integer was passed to typed()
13:16 dalek perl6-examples:
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: Now 10-01arguments.pl works again.
13:16 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/350297f5e0
13:17 _mg_ joined #perl6
13:17 jnthn timotimo: I think we get rid of the spesh *graph*, it's just that we also produce bytecode
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13:28 dalek perl6-examples: 431867d | paultcochrane++ | games/flashcard.p6:
13:28 dalek perl6-examples: Assign %table elements to the empty array
13:28 dalek perl6-examples:
13:28 dalek perl6-examples: This gets the (half-implemented) games/flashcard.p6 example working again.
13:28 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/431867dc27
13:28 dalek joined #perl6
13:37 lizmat timotimo: alas, complete nativication of Test.pm doesn't result in real measurable improvement
13:37 lizmat I guess it all drowns out by the overhead on .print / .say
13:37 * lizmat shelves that idea for a later time
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13:58 timotimo lizmat: understood. thank you for trying!
13:58 masak quick #perl6 quiz: when you write a sub or method declaration with no parameters, do you put in the '()' -- i.e. do you do "sub foo {" or "sub foo() {" ?
13:59 timotimo i often do it without
13:59 moritz masak: I tend to leave them out, and that bites me when I write NQP code :-)
14:00 jnthn I tend to put them in.
14:01 [Tux] does "use Test;" offer something like (If *any* of the tests run up to this point FAILed, exit now)
14:01 psch i'm apparently inconsistent, although no parens seems to occur more often
14:01 [Tux] http://doc.perl6.org/language/testing doesn't show me introspection of state so far
14:02 masak I'm definitely inconsistent, too. I just caught myself at it, which was why I asked.
14:02 sergot FROGGS++ thanks!
14:02 masak but it seems that the Perl 6 community as a whole is inconsistent ;)
14:02 leont [Tux]: I don't think it does, I'll keep it in mind for my Test::More
14:02 [Tux] leont++
14:03 * masak just sped up a script from 49 s to 9 s
14:03 timotimo masak: cool :)
14:03 FROGGS masak: I put a () there, yes
14:03 timotimo was it an algorithmic improvement or just moving from a less well-optimized construct to a better-optimized construct?
14:04 masak timotimo: I realized that instead of computing the same thing 55 times, I could compute it once and then re-use it.
14:04 timotimo ah
14:04 timotimo one of the simplest ways to optimize
14:04 masak caching ftw
14:04 FROGGS masak: and I do that to state that I really dont want any args... and to prevent adding signature generating things easily
14:04 timotimo also one of the harder problems of CS lie in that area :P
14:04 sergot FROGGS: looks like we need the same in io-socket-ssl/t/01...
14:04 masak since I'm planning to re-run this script many many times, it's well worth it, too.
14:04 FROGGS sergot: feel free :o)
14:05 sergot FROGGS: yep :)
14:05 psch i'm struggling to understand how the invokestatic bytecode differs from MethodHandle.invoke in casting of the passed arguments
14:05 psch i'm calling the same method of a java class 1) through RakudoJavaInterop MMD and 2) through BootJavaInterop bytecode
14:06 psch with the same arguments
14:06 psch and they get parsed by the same methods
14:06 masak sorry, the speedup was down to 2.3 seconds. the 9 seconds were when I printed it, too.
14:06 raiph joined #perl6
14:06 psch and arrive at the callsite as [java/lang/Object (while they are Long[][])
14:06 masak man, printing is still slow, isn't it?
14:06 tadzik yes
14:06 psch and the direct invoke through invokestatic works, but MethodHandle.invoke doesn't
14:07 nwc10 if so, that's very important to fix. It was one of the two big reasons that Python 3.1 followed rather rapidly after Python 3.0
14:07 psch and complains about not being able to cast [java/lang/Object to [[java/lang/Long
14:07 masak wow, it really takes 7.3 seconds just to print the output from that script.
14:07 masak wow.
14:07 timotimo nwc10: what are you refering to?
14:07 nwc10 slow IO\
14:07 timotimo ah yes
14:07 tadzik masak: how much faster would it be if you concat it into a single string and then prant it?
14:07 timotimo we keep looking up $*OUT over and over and over again
14:08 tadzik improvising past tense is so fun
14:08 masak ok, it takes 6.4 seconds with `perl`. so we're not doing that badly.
14:08 masak why the heck does it take that long!?
14:08 timotimo because terminals
14:08 tadzik to the profilers!
14:08 masak timotimo: ah, possibly.
14:08 moritz Alle Mann an Deck!
14:08 tadzik well, it should be okay if you print to file then
14:08 timotimo No manual entry for über
14:09 timotimo No manual entry for bord
14:09 masak the file is 44428 lines big. so that's 6k lines per second. that sounds low, but I'm not sure.
14:09 masak surely if we could parse at that speed, it'd be impressive ;)
14:10 moritz how big is the file in kb/Mb?
14:10 timotimo usually it's 1024 kb/Mb
14:11 timotimo but not if you ask hard drive producers
14:11 raiph joined #perl6
14:11 lizmat .oO( or fruit producers )
14:11 masak moritz: 3_070_814 bytes.
14:12 masak so on average 69 bytes per line.
14:13 sergot FROGGS: actually I think we don't want to test if there is a status of 200, it's just okay to have 302 in it because io-socket-ssl and openssl have nothing to do with redirections
14:13 FROGGS sergot: true
14:15 raiph joined #perl6
14:16 spider-mario joined #perl6
14:18 raiph joined #perl6
14:20 lizmat m: class{}.new.*bar.perl.say  # I guess the empty Parcel is the correct value, right?  and not Nil ??
14:20 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«()␤»
14:20 jnthn Think so
14:20 lizmat m: class{}.new.?bar.perl.say  # as opposed to ?, which can only return 1 value, so Nil
14:20 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
14:20 jnthn Makes sense to me
14:21 lizmat ok, then the fix to is() is showing quite some faulty tests in the woodwork
14:21 timotimo m: my @foobar; @foobar[5][*] = 10; say @foobar; @foobar[5][*] = 20; say @foobar
14:21 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«␤␤»
14:21 lizmat m: use Test; is $c.*bar(), Nil, '.* on undefined method gives Nil';  # ergo, this test is wrong
14:21 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ZSjf1B6e5d␤Variable '$c' is not declared␤at /tmp/ZSjf1B6e5d:1␤------> 3use Test; is $c.*bar()7⏏5, Nil, '.* on undefined method gives Nil␤    expecting any of:␤        argument list␤        pos…»
14:21 timotimo m: my @foobar; @foobar[5][*+0] = 10; say @foobar; @foobar[5][*+0] = 20; say @foobar
14:21 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«(Any) (Any) (Any) (Any) (Any) 10␤(Any) (Any) (Any) (Any) (Any) 10 20␤»
14:21 skids joined #perl6
14:21 timotimo neat.
14:21 lizmat m: use Test; my $c=class().new; is $c.*bar(), Nil, '.* on undefined method gives Nil';  # ergo, this test is wrong
14:21 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/8AvpNVoMye␤Undeclared routine:␤    class used at line 1. Did you mean 'last', 'chars', 'close', 'pass'?␤␤»
14:22 lizmat m: use Test; my $c=class{}.new; is $c.*bar(), Nil, '.* on undefined method gives Nil';  # ergo, this test is wrong
14:22 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«ok 1 - .* on undefined method gives Nil␤»
14:22 timotimo m: my @foobar; push @foobar[2], "hi"; say @foobar
14:22 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«(Any) (Any) hi␤»
14:22 lizmat even though it says it's correct :-)
14:22 timotimo somehow that last one doesn't seem to work on my end :(
14:23 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
14:23 * [Tux] feels somewhat useful again :)
14:25 raiph joined #perl6
14:26 timotimo oh, i know what i've done wrong
14:28 timotimo (i had an expression like [@(.value)] and really meant [+@(.value)]
14:28 * moritz wishes for an SQL column type that allows old values to be NULL, but new inserts must always be NOT NULL
14:28 raiph joined #perl6
14:28 timotimo oh
14:28 timotimo well, you could have a trigger ...
14:28 moritz timotimo: sounds like you want [.value.elems]?
14:28 timotimo moritz: ah, that's easier indeed :)
14:28 masak oh, by the way: first time I can recall using `state` as a caching mechanism in "production" code.
14:28 moritz timotimo: I guess I could, but we don't triggers here :(
14:29 anaeem1__ joined #perl6
14:29 moritz (old mysql stuff)
14:29 timotimo oh
14:29 Sysaxed joined #perl6
14:29 arnsholt And triggers are generally a lot more expensive than NOT NULL checks, IIRC
14:29 timotimo you can have a constraint that all rows with index above $n has to have a not-null value
14:30 moritz timotimo: except that mysql doesn't do CHECK constraints :(
14:30 moritz TODO: switch to a saner RDBMS
14:30 moritz (read: postgres :-)
14:30 timotimo god damn it, mysql
14:30 timotimo well, at least it's webscale
14:30 timotimo and Good Enough™
14:30 Ven joined #perl6
14:30 timotimo No Reason To Ever Switch To Anything Less Bad™
14:31 masak with that use, `state` is really "have the cake and eat it". I get both the scoping I want, and the value re-use.
14:31 moritz and I fear that if there hadn't bee mysql back then, our in-house developer would have written his own crappy DB engine :-)
14:31 lizmat masak: well stated
14:31 timotimo well, OK, that's fair i guess, moritz
14:31 masak lizmat: I see what you did there.
14:31 timotimo i'm not sure if #perl6 trains expert punists or if it just attracts them
14:32 jnthn The pun quality is variable...
14:32 timotimo punsters?
14:32 lizmat have an appropriate amount of pun  :-)
14:32 moritz timotimo: punstates :-)
14:32 sjn \o
14:33 masak well, it wasn't "my" pun!
14:33 masak lizmat has the pun.
14:33 sven_123 joined #perl6
14:33 sjn question; is there some webpage or equivalent that gives an overview of the people involved here? :)
14:33 raiph joined #perl6
14:34 masak sjn: github! :D
14:34 sjn masak: url, plz, kthxbye :)
14:34 moritz sjn: also https://www.openhub.net/ (used to be ohloh.net)
14:35 moritz though it seems to be quite out of date for many projects
14:35 timotimo damn you, reify. at the very top of my profile again. not spesh'd or jitted either!
14:35 timotimo 1068296 entries, 12712.67ms exclusive time :(
14:36 timotimo m: say "that's {12712.67 / 1068296} miliseconds per entry"
14:36 camelia rakudo-moar 6662cd: OUTPUT«that's 0.0118999509 miliseconds per entry␤»
14:36 timotimo hm
14:36 timotimo well, i'd still prefer having it thrown out and replaced by a cleverer solution
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: 8df9b2d | lizmat++ | lib/Test.pm:
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Make is/isnt handle expected type objects properly
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Instigated by [Tux]++, it seemed like a good idea to handle type objects as
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: the "expected" value of an is/isnt differently from defined values.  So, now
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: the logic is:
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: - if got/expected have a defined/undefined mismatch, it is a Fail
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: - if got/expected are both type objects (undefined), use === for comparison
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: - if got/expected are both defined, use eq for comparison (as before)
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: This change brings out quite some faulty tests out of the woodwork.
14:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8df9b2d066
14:37 nwc10 lizmat: you didn't flood dalek off. Try harder next time! :-)
14:37 lizmat nwc10: will do a merge soon :-)
14:37 moritz lizmat: please update the design docs and doc.perl6.org too; it's quite a change from the current behavior
14:37 lizmat will be fixing those test failures now
14:37 lizmat moritz: will do, after I fixed the faulty tests
14:38 moritz ++lizmat
14:38 moritz my $test = $got === $expected;
14:38 moritz not sure if that should be === or ~~
14:39 moritz generally returning a subtype of something expected is fine, as long as you stick with Liskov
14:39 moritz and since we're special-casing types anyway...
14:39 * moritz just throws ideas around
14:40 masak does anyone else feel like they know a great precious secret just by being proficient at `next if` and `next unless` in their loops, avoiding oodles and oodles of indentation from conditionals?
14:40 masak I don't really see this kind of code in other languages.
14:40 timotimo my script still does about 1k lines per second
14:41 wicope joined #perl6
14:41 colomon masak: hmm?  I’ve been using “if … continue” in C++ loops for decades to avoid all that indentation
14:41 yoleaux 07:57Z <FROGGS> colomon: I don't understand how Compress::Zlib::Raw can fail for the smoker... see https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/229dffa2ef287aa08f83
14:42 masak colomon: was that before or after you learned Perl? do your colleagues do the same in C++?
14:42 lizmat moritz: ~~ seems more of the "like/unlike" domain
14:42 colomon It’s hard to remember, I learned Perl 21 years ago.  :)
14:42 masak :)
14:43 xfix joined #perl6
14:43 colomon … and C++ 26 years ago.
14:44 masak wow.
14:44 colomon Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of old source code I can go back and check.
14:44 moritz wow. I couldn't even write 26 years ago
14:44 masak colomon: one day I hope to have learned Perl as long ago as you.
14:44 moritz or read, for that matter
14:44 colomon masak++
14:45 * colomon did his first programming on a PET in 1982 or so.
14:45 test_ joined #perl6
14:46 geekosaur masak, there's a cultural component to that
14:46 test_ left #perl6
14:46 masak geekosaur: yes, that's what I was after.
14:46 geekosaur some developers consider that to be "goto considered harmful"
14:46 colomon masak: I have heard B&D types rail against it as “goto considered harmful” (as geekosaur said while I was typing this)
14:47 masak wow. I can "understand" that point of view. but boy are they missing out.
14:47 colomon as a person who spent years programming in a world where goto was the only option, I think considering “next” to be a “bad” goto is completely insane.
14:47 moritz well, deep nesting can also harm
14:48 masak my brain has it as "make the list simple in the for loop head, then refine with `next` and `last` conditions".
14:48 geekosaur I am also thinking of a Linus rant about developers writing convoluted stuff like that which could be simplified massively by a `goto error`. (of course, the other side can point to Apple's `goto fail`...)
14:49 rjbs but of course their goto wasn't the problem
14:51 moritz it was more an 'if fail' instead
14:51 rjbs yeah
14:51 rmgk_ joined #perl6
14:51 geekosaur sadly, it's the age of soundbites, not the age of understanding. I have already heard that reference used that way a number of times :(
14:51 rjbs don't worry, there has never been an age of understanding
14:52 geekosaur (that is something to not worry about?)
14:53 dalek rakudo/nom: 404d228 | lizmat++ | lib/Test.pm:
14:53 dalek rakudo/nom: Show error on type objects without warnings
14:53 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/404d228a26
14:53 lizmat afk for ~ 2 hours
14:53 lizmat will continue fixing spectest after that
14:53 masak another pattern: want to give your enum values awesome derived properties? define multis on them!
14:54 masak or a hash, I guess.
14:54 dalek roast: 81a54c8 | lizmat++ | S02-types/undefined-types.t:
14:54 dalek roast: Fix faulty tests
14:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/81a54c8c36
14:54 lizmat &
14:57 Ven masak: fwiw: when I have "if (x){return}" or "if (x){continue" or "if(x){break" I look at it like a code smell :)
14:58 Ven ( http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-02-25#i_10177596 <- I was a whole 6 years away from even existing back then. Good times! *g* )
14:58 geekosaur I don't; short-circuiting can make the following code a lot clearer
15:01 masak of course it can. nothing code-smelly about it.
15:01 masak at least not per se.
15:01 masak sorry, Ven. "at least not in and of itself"
15:02 Ven ymmw. I consider an explicit return a codeself as well, usuaily :)
15:02 Ven very "pure" school
15:02 * masak .oO( Your Mileage May... Wary? ) :P
15:02 psch your mentor might worry?
15:03 masak Ven: it's all tradeoffs and waterbeds.
15:03 Ven may be wary :P
15:03 * masak .oO( There's Something About Wary )
15:05 timotimo there's something about worry?
15:05 colomon http://testers.perl6.org/  — “This webpage is not available”
15:05 timotimo um
15:05 FROGGS :o(
15:05 timotimo i just had that page open on my browser
15:05 timotimo now it's gone
15:05 timotimo did i kill it?
15:05 timotimo there it is
15:06 sjn masak: halp!
15:06 masak m: enum E <Foo Bar>; sub x(Floo) {}
15:06 camelia rakudo-moar 8df9b2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/lo3W1q5wvZ␤Invalid typename 'Floo' in parameter declaration.␤at /tmp/lo3W1q5wvZ:1␤------> 3enum E <Foo Bar>; sub x(Floo7⏏5) {}␤»
15:06 * masak was just bitten by this
15:07 timotimo oh, it doesn't suggest?
15:07 masak a case for Lichtenstein^WWittgenstaein^WLevenstein?
15:07 moritz did you mean: lichtkind?
15:07 FROGGS Stolperstein, even
15:07 * masak submits rakuchdoblog
15:07 sjn masak: I'm realizing I actually *need* a single webpage that lists contributors o_O
15:08 masak sjn: well volunteered!
15:08 tadzik :)
15:08 sjn but the perl6 stuff on github is too spread out
15:08 timotimo ... "a single webpage" ...
15:08 masak ... to rule them all ...
15:08 FROGGS stalkbook.com
15:08 laouji joined #perl6
15:08 timotimo how about "codestalk"?
15:08 FROGGS (as a name proposal)
15:09 masak sjn: alternatively: build it, and they will come.
15:10 * sjn could run "git shortlog -s" on the different repos, and aggregate the results
15:10 timotimo perl6 will have many more contributors just because people want to become part of the hip cool new website
15:10 sjn but that would require an updated .mailmap file
15:10 sjn for each of those
15:10 Ven :o)
15:10 sjn allright, which repos are considered "core"?
15:11 sjn let's start there
15:12 * sjn starts by assuming everything under github.com/perl6
15:12 sjn anything else?
15:12 tadzik /rakudo too, probably
15:12 tadzik and /MoarVM
15:12 tadzik depending on what your website actually lists :)
15:13 * sjn wants to identify core contributors
15:13 moritz also tadzik/panda
15:14 tadzik if "2nd core" counts :)
15:14 PerlJam good morning #perl6
15:14 nwc10 the future *is* multicore, after all.
15:14 tadzik hehe
15:14 nwc10 well, the present, actually
15:14 PerlJam the future too :)
15:15 PerlJam (unless there's a nuclear apocalypse that knocks us back to the stone age or something)
15:15 psch o/ PerlJam
15:22 gfldex joined #perl6
15:22 telex joined #perl6
15:27 tadzik .u 🙋
15:27 yoleaux U+1F64B HAPPY PERSON RAISING ONE HAND [So] (🙋)
15:28 laouji joined #perl6
15:42 masak if you're happy and you know it, raise your hand. 🙋🙋🙋
15:43 moritz but... which one?
15:45 tadzik ONE HAND
15:45 Ovid joined #perl6
15:45 tadzik like the ONE RING
15:45 * masak .oO( what is the sound of one hand ringing? )
15:58 PerlJam masak: one hand ringing is what it's like when you're married and your spouse isn't around.  And when the two come together, the two ringing hands reinforce each other to form a perfect tone.  :)
15:59 MadcapJake are there any resources out there explaining modularizing your own code? Like what is the diff btwn a .p6/.pl and a .pm/pm6 file? or how do you structure a modularized project folder?
16:00 tadzik .pm is what another program might use for something
16:00 tadzik .pl is my own program, not reusable
16:00 MadcapJake so the only difference is the extension?
16:00 tadzik generally
16:00 tadzik no, it's a conceptual difference
16:00 tadzik you put different things in these files
16:00 MadcapJake so inside the file, no difference in how you write anything?
16:00 psch by convention, though.  nothing prevents you from having a .pl that contains a module
16:00 tadzik oh, it's the same Perl alright :)
16:01 psch it's a useful convention nontheless
16:01 PerlJam MadcapJake: right.
16:01 MadcapJake ok, and where do you put a module in your project folder so that you can access it in a main/app.pl file?
16:01 PerlJam MadcapJake: the only place the suffix actually matters I think is when Perl is looking for modules.  It'll look for .pm or .pm6 files.  otherwise, the suffix doesn't much matter (to Perl)
16:02 PerlJam MadcapJake: the convention is to provide a lib directory, but you can put it where ever you lik
16:02 PerlJam er, like
16:03 tadzik what happened to wiki.perl6.org :(
16:03 tadzik it had a nice article ont hat
16:03 timotimo we had a wiki?
16:03 tadzik yes
16:03 PerlJam maybe still on feather?
16:03 psch PerlJam++ # right about ModuleLoader explicitly checking for the extension
16:04 timotimo was it this? http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi
16:04 MadcapJake PerlJam: how do i then reference it? because I tried putting it in a lib folder and then used 'use ModuleName;' and it didn't work
16:04 tadzik timotimo: nah, that one was p6 specific
16:04 psch MadcapJake: you need to either «use lib "$path";» or run with -Ilib
16:04 psch i think the former is prefered, although i don't recall the difference
16:04 timotimo MadcapJake: perl6 won' tlook in ./lib or ./blib/lib by default
16:04 tadzik oh, here it is! http://doc.perl6.org/language/modules
16:05 MadcapJake so `use lib 'lb';` sets the lib path for that file?
16:05 PerlJam MadcapJake: read that link tadzik just mentioned
16:05 tadzik well, it doesn't say exactly that
16:05 MadcapJake tadzik: that link isn't what im talking about, i've looked at that
16:05 MadcapJake tadzik: that link talks only about modularizing your code for others to use
16:05 tadzik but generally you put scripts in bin/, modules in lib/, and if you want to run them w/o installing you go perl6 -Ilib bin/foo
16:05 MadcapJake not about how to organize a project to reference internally modularized code
16:06 tadzik yeah, you're right, I misremembered
16:06 PerlJam MadcapJake: the "organization" is up to you.  Mostly there's just conventions that require you know to put stuff in certain locations and to tell Perl that you've done so.
16:06 tadzik now, if you write a distributable module, then the stuff from lib gets installed where perl6 will look for it anyway
16:06 tadzik so at that point you don't need 'use lib' anymore
16:06 MadcapJake ok cool
16:07 PerlJam MadcapJake: are you familiar with panda?
16:07 mr-foobar joined #perl6
16:07 MadcapJake yeah a bit, i've installed a few modules :)
16:07 tadzik :)
16:07 PerlJam MadcapJake: did you know that you can install your own, local modules?
16:07 colomon cpandatesters running *incredibly* slowly at the moment.
16:08 nine_ What madman invented this language?? This unbelievable awesomeness boggles my mind.
16:08 timotimo colomon: doesn't it always?
16:08 timotimo and i'm also not sure if it's multithreaded...
16:08 MadcapJake PerlJam: does it move them out of my project directory though?
16:08 PerlJam "move"? no.  But it will copy things to where Rakudo can find them.
16:08 timotimo not move
16:08 dalek perl6-roast-data: f7fc4d6 | coke++ | / (9 files):
16:08 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:08 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/f7fc4d6eb2
16:08 FROGGS colomon: aye, I need to put some more effort in moving to p5c.org
16:08 Ven joined #perl6
16:08 FROGGS p6c.org*
16:09 nine_ moritz: Apache to Nginx config converter coming along quite nicely: https://github.com/niner/Apache-To-Nginx/blob/master/lib/Apache/Config/Converter/Nginx.pm
16:09 timotimo MadcapJake: and also you'll have compiled versions of the modules available after installation - these will automatically be used
16:09 MadcapJake PerlJam: cus I just like to have separate files inside my project and this is also an idiomatic use of modules right?
16:10 PerlJam MadcapJake: mostly
16:10 MadcapJake oh?
16:10 gfldex m: say @*INC;
16:10 camelia rakudo-moar 404d22: OUTPUT«file:/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/languages/perl6/lib inst:/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/languages/perl6␤»
16:10 colomon FROGGS: for what it’s worth, I’m running a smoke test with PANDA_SUBMIT_TESTREPORTS=1 set to see if that gives useful information.  But I can’t check because testers.perl6.org doesn’t exactly work.
16:11 FROGGS :/
16:11 FROGGS the box it is running on is just crap
16:11 timotimo oh
16:11 timotimo if that's the case, that's not as terrible :)
16:11 MadcapJake like let's say you're working on a large web app and you want to have your code separated out, what's the more appropriate way of organizing this?
16:12 FROGGS MadcapJake: that is what you use modules for, aye
16:12 FROGGS colomon: I'll prioritize moving to p6c then
16:12 colomon FROGGS: yay!
16:13 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
16:13 MadcapJake ok cool, just trying to make sure im on the right track (no experience with perl 5 so i'm sometimes hitting walls where the docs expect some previous p5 knowledge)
16:14 FROGGS bbiab
16:22 timotimo pff. someone reported all fosdem videos to be uploaded. nope. just a few of them.
16:23 PerlJam timotimo: all of the ones they've processed so far have been uploaded ;)
16:23 perl6_newbee joined #perl6
16:27 Ven m:  sub map(@list, &fn) {  given @list { when :([$a, *@b]) { say fn($a) } } }; map(^10, *+2);
16:27 camelia rakudo-moar 404d22: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/q03LB5wah6␤Variable '$a' is not declared␤at /tmp/q03LB5wah6:1␤------> 3en @list { when :([$a, *@b]) { say fn($a7⏏5) } } }; map(^10, *+2);␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤»
16:28 timotimo wow, what progress.
16:29 [Coke] m: say „old/sold/liquidated module“;
16:29 camelia rakudo-moar 404d22: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤No valid term seen where one is required␤at /tmp/TcnQJOLjtv:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5„old/sold/liquidated module“;␤Bogus term␤at /tmp/TcnQJOLjtv:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5„old/sold/liquidated module“;␤    expecting any…»
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16:33 laouji joined #perl6
16:33 timotimo i wonder what the proper fix for say's performance will be
16:38 bayprogrammer joined #perl6
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16:40 FROGGS joined #perl6
16:40 [Tux] lizmat++; # new Test shows two missed errors!
16:41 dalek roast: c55aee4 | lizmat++ | S05-modifier/perl5_ (3 files):
16:41 dalek roast: Check for Nil if we want to test for Nil
16:41 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c55aee408e
16:42 [Coke] ^^ TimToady ... just saw that quote style in a work email.
16:43 dalek roast: 0e7a451 | lizmat++ | S32-array/delete-adverb (2 files):
16:43 dalek roast: Fix type to check for
16:43 dalek roast:
16:43 dalek roast: Was invisible before, because Any and Int both stringify to ''
16:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0e7a45185f
16:43 [Coke] regarding old coders, I had an atari 400 in the late 70s at home I programmed in basic on, and I'm pretty sure I had access to a TRS-80 at school at the same time (or slightly earlier)
16:44 lizmat the rest of the test failures are really about checking against junctions of strings
16:44 lizmat not sure whether this is a problem of Test.pm, rakudo, Moar or something else
16:45 lizmat investigating now
16:45 geekosaur Ohio Scientific SuperBoard II. the TRS-80 came later, first at school and then at home, then a big jump up to an XT clone in the mid-80s
16:46 lizmat m: use Test; my $a = "foo"; is $a, "foo"|"bar"
16:46 camelia rakudo-moar 404d22: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤not ok 2 - ␤␤# Failed test at src/gen/m-CORE.setting line 9356␤»
16:47 lizmat before my fix to Test.pm it would say:
16:47 lizmat $ 6 'use Test; my $a = "foo"; is $a, "foo"|"bar"'
16:47 lizmat ok 1 -
16:48 echowuhao joined #perl6
16:48 FROGGS m: say "foo" ~~ "foo"|"bar"
16:48 camelia rakudo-moar 404d22: OUTPUT«True␤»
16:49 FROGGS why do we get a ok and a nok now?
16:50 FROGGS I would not expect that  is $a, "foo"|"bar"  is worth two tests
16:52 lizmat FROGGS: that's exactly the bug
16:52 lizmat I'm not sure how that happens either
16:52 lizmat doesn't feel to me I've done something magical
16:53 FROGGS ahh
16:53 FROGGS m: say "foo" === "foo"|"bar"
16:53 camelia rakudo-moar 404d22: OUTPUT«any(True, False)␤»
16:54 FROGGS m: say "foo" eq "foo"|"bar"
16:54 camelia rakudo-moar 404d22: OUTPUT«any(True, False)␤»
16:56 FROGGS m: sub foo(Str) { say 42 }; foo("foo"|"bar")
16:56 camelia rakudo-moar 404d22: OUTPUT«42␤42␤»
16:56 jluis joined #perl6
16:57 FROGGS lizmat: it autothreads when you pass it a junction
16:57 lizmat also on Mu:D or Mu:U ?
16:57 lizmat that feels to be the difference
16:57 FROGGS - my $test = $got eq $expected;
16:57 FROGGS + my $test = so $got eq $expected;
16:57 FROGGS that would collapse it
16:58 FROGGS and likely at different places too
16:58 lizmat FROGGS++
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17:06 dalek rakudo/nom: e7fb7ba | lizmat++ | lib/Test.pm:
17:06 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix testing with junctions, FROGGS++
17:06 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e7fb7bae41
17:08 dalek roast: d1a6687 | lizmat++ | S12-methods/calling_sets.t:
17:08 dalek roast: class.*bar returns Parcel, not Nil
17:08 dalek roast:
17:08 dalek roast: This test previously passed for the wrong reason
17:08 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d1a6687f3c
17:20 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
17:21 dalek doc: 2370a3a | moritz++ | util/update-and-sync:
17:21 dalek doc: update script: delete old .html files
17:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2370a3ac43
17:21 dalek doc: e15e61f | moritz++ | lib/Type/Cool.pod:
17:21 dalek doc: Cool.chomp, .ords, .chrs
17:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e15e61ff38
17:21 dalek doc: 8d1d524 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Cool.pod:
17:21 dalek doc: Document Cool.words
17:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8d1d524ad1
17:21 dalek doc: bcb5930 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Cool.pod:
17:21 dalek doc: Document Cool.split
17:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/bcb593088d
17:21 Kristien joined #perl6
17:22 [Coke] lizmat: how did you fix testing with junctions?
17:22 [Coke] did you change the autothreading?
17:22 echowuhao joined #perl6
17:22 anaeem1 joined #perl6
17:23 xinming joined #perl6
17:23 dalek rakudo/nom: abc54e5 | lizmat++ | lib/Test.pm:
17:23 dalek rakudo/nom: Bring junction fixes inline with other code
17:23 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/abc54e5171
17:24 lizmat [Coke]: I accidentally removed some ? because I thought they weren't necessatu
17:24 lizmat *necessary
17:24 lizmat afk for a few hours&
17:24 moritz fwiw I've started updating http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 again, this time with links to doc.perl6.org and "last updated" dates
17:24 jnthn moritz++
17:25 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
17:28 * flussence just put "use Grammar::Debugger" in a script that I'm piping data into on stdin, and it took a few minutes to figure out why it was spewing errors...
17:30 timotimo hehe
17:33 mohij joined #perl6
17:33 timotimo hm. can nqp benefit from native refs?
17:33 anaeem1__ joined #perl6
17:33 timotimo since we always bind, i guess not?
17:34 jnthn Yeah, they're really about l-values and assignment
17:35 larion joined #perl6
17:36 moritz timotimo: and if so, we'd have to drop parrot support from NQP too
17:39 dalek roast: 5e15e65 | jnthn++ | S06-traits/native-is-copy.t:
17:39 dalek roast: Tests for is copy trait on native args.
17:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5e15e65423
17:39 dalek rakudo/native-ref: 26714ab | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
17:39 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Make 'is copy' on natively typed params work.
17:39 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/26714ab04c
17:39 dalek rakudo/native-ref: e10e20a | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
17:39 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Run S06-traits/native-is-copy.t.
17:39 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e10e20aec7
17:41 Kristien hi
17:41 yoleaux 08:42Z <FROGGS> Kristien: do you have something special in mind except for the obvious? - FROGGS: also have fun with union members!
17:44 Kristien FROGGS: the only guarantee you have is that the size of the union type is equal to the size of its largest member
17:45 Kristien there's no guarantee, for example, that in union { t a; u b; } x;, x.a and x.b have the same address.
17:46 Kristien and if a union contains a non-static data member with a non-trivial special member function that function is deleted in the union.
17:49 Kristien though you have to be careful about memcpyability in general
17:50 perl6_newbee moritz: time for a DBIish question?
17:50 yoleaux 24 Feb 2015 20:21Z <japhb> perl6_newbee: I implemented (the first version of) the MAIN parser and USAGE generator, as close as I could manage to spec at the time.  I am also one of the people that thinks we really should natively support subcommand interfaces, since I think that's actually what people expect now.  I was overruled.
17:51 perl6_newbee thx +yoleaux
17:52 timotimo perl6_newbee: you can "botsnack"
17:52 timotimo botsnack
17:52 timotimo actually
17:52 timotimo .botsnack
17:52 yoleaux :D
17:53 perl6_newbee sorry I am not only a perl6 newbee. ALso irc noob
17:53 nebuchadnezzar joined #perl6
17:54 perl6_newbee yoleaux is a bot, right?
17:54 grondilu it is
17:54 perl6_newbee aahhh
17:54 perl6_newbee .botsnack
17:54 yoleaux :D
17:55 moritz perl6_newbee: yes
17:55 perl6_newbee never too old...
17:55 moritz yes re: time for a DBIish question :-)
17:55 * grondilu heasitates suggesting adding YOLO to S99
17:56 perl6_newbee moritz:^^  great. I have following code: $!dbh.do(qq:to/CREATEEND/);
17:56 perl6_newbee > "dms/de77522a520ab2ec481948c35d942497/2569671732b2694006c82723f4e80e41", file_name_hash => "de77522a520ab2ec481948c3│  3             INSERT INTO CATEGORY(cat_name) VALUES($catlc);
17:56 perl6_newbee ARGL
17:56 perl6_newbee sometimes I don't like tmux
17:57 perl6_newbee $!dbih.do(qq:to/CREATEEND/); INSERT INTO CATEGORY(cat_name) VALUES($category) CREATEEND
17:57 perl6_newbee $category = 'rechnung'
17:58 perl6_newbee I always get the error: SQLITE_ERROR no such column: rechnung
17:58 perl6_newbee if I replace VALUES($category) with VALUES('rechnung') it works
17:58 perl6_newbee Am I the problem?
17:59 timotimo why are you using string interpolation for this?
17:59 moritz perl6_newbee: the problem is that you aren't using placeholders
17:59 geekosaur qq looks wrong there
18:00 geekosaur or, that
18:00 perl6_newbee because of "do". I could use $!dbh.prepare. But that would be more typing
18:00 moritz perl6_newbee: INSERT INTO ... VALUES(?)
18:00 dalek doc: 628eb4c | TimToady++ | lib/Language/5to6.pod:
18:00 dalek doc: s/ing/ed/
18:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/628eb4c8c7
18:00 geekosaur string interpolation for sql is a hack waiting to happen.
18:00 geekosaur (if do is going to encourage that, can we dehuffmanize it?)
18:00 moritz perl6_newbee: you can pass bind parameters to .do as well
18:01 TimToady use MONKEY_SEE_MONKEY_DO
18:01 perl6_newbee $!dbh.do(q:to/END/, $category) ... ?
18:02 perl6_newbee geekosaur: I thought perl6 replaces the variables and toss it then to sql
18:02 moritz perl6_newbee: yes
18:02 geekosaur it does
18:02 TimToady use LITTLE_MONKEY_TABLES
18:02 geekosaur literally
18:02 geekosaur it does not quote values, it just substitutes the string
18:02 psch my $category = "; select * from users; --"
18:02 geekosaur which is why you got an error trying to use a value as a column, and why that;s a completely insecure way to write SQL
18:03 geekosaur don;t use variable substitution, use placeholders
18:03 psch (or somewhat like that)
18:03 perl6_newbee Hmm. thanks @ all. learned something again
18:03 moritz star: use DBIish; my $dbh = DBIish.connect('SQLite', :database<foo.sqlite3>); $dbh.do('CREATE TABLE foo (c varchar(20))'); $dbh.do('INSERT INTO foo VALUES(?)', 42); say $dbh.fetchall('SELECT * FROM foo#)
18:03 camelia star-{m,p} 2015.01: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'" ␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> 3; say $dbh.fetchall('SELECT * FROM foo#)7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        argument l…»
18:03 dalek roast: 40180a9 | jnthn++ | S06-routine-modifiers/native-lvalue-subroutines.t:
18:03 dalek roast: Add tests for native rw sub semantics.
18:03 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/40180a9b53
18:04 moritz star: use DBIish; my $dbh = DBIish.connect('SQLite', :database<foo.sqlite3>); $dbh.do('CREATE TABLE foo (c varchar(20))'); $dbh.do('INSERT INTO foo VALUES(?)', 42); say $dbh.fetchall('SELECT * FROM foo')
18:04 camelia star-p 2015.01: OUTPUT«SQLITE_ERROR table foo already exists␤  in method handle-error at /home/camelia/rakudo-star-2015.01/install/lib/parrot/7.0.1/languages/perl6/lib/DBDish/SQLite.pm6:167␤  in method prepare at /home/camelia/rakudo-star-2015.01/install/lib/parrot/7.0.1/languag…»
18:04 camelia ..star-m 2015.01: OUTPUT«No such method 'fetchall' for invocant of type 'DBDish::SQLite::Connection'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
18:04 jnthn Dinner, then I'll make those tests I just added passier :) &
18:04 moritz star: use DBIish; my $dbh = DBIish.connect('SQLite', :database<foo.sqlite3>); $dbh.do('CREATE TABLE foo (c varchar(20))'); $dbh.do('INSERT INTO foo VALUES(?)', 42); say $dbh.fetchrow('SELECT * FROM foo')
18:04 camelia star-p 2015.01: OUTPUT«SQLITE_ERROR table foo already exists␤  in method handle-error at /home/camelia/rakudo-star-2015.01/install/lib/parrot/7.0.1/languages/perl6/lib/DBDish/SQLite.pm6:167␤  in method prepare at /home/camelia/rakudo-star-2015.01/install/lib/parrot/7.0.1/languag…»
18:04 camelia ..star-m 2015.01: OUTPUT«SQLITE_ERROR table foo already exists␤  in method handle-error at /home/camelia/rakudo-star-2015.01/install/languages/perl6/lib/DBDish/SQLite.pm6:167␤  in method prepare at /home/camelia/rakudo-star-2015.01/install/languages/perl6/lib/DBDish/SQLite.pm6:180…»
18:04 moritz star: use DBIish; my $dbh = DBIish.connect('SQLite', :database<foo.sqlite3>); $dbh.do('INSERT INTO foo VALUES(?)', 42); say $dbh.fetchrow('SELECT * FROM foo')
18:04 camelia star-{m,p} 2015.01: OUTPUT«No such method 'fetchrow' for invocant of type 'DBDish::SQLite::Connection'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
18:05 TimToady or maybe enable do with use FLYING_BUTT_MONKEYES
18:05 TimToady *YS
18:05 perl6_newbee And it works :-)
18:06 * moritz just too dumb to demonstrate it here
18:07 TimToady or not do, but interpolation into it
18:07 perl6_newbee moritz++. hey it works here
18:07 TimToady would be kinda tough to recognize, unless we had some way of requiring single quotes instead of double
18:07 geekosaur yeh, I'm wondering if there's a slang or etc. trick that could detect interpolation there and whack the programmer with a 2x4
18:08 moritz fwiw there are good use cases for interpolating strings into SQL
18:08 moritz most notably column and table names
18:08 geekosaur except then I envision the blog posts about how perl6 is impossible to write SQL in, because of course SQL-injection-vulnerable code is the only conceivable way to write it!
18:08 moritz where placeholders simply aren't supported by the RDBMS
18:08 TimToady well, we do allow \qq[] inside double quotes, which is kind of de-huffmanized anyway
18:08 TimToady *single
18:09 Rounin joined #perl6
18:09 moritz as disappointing as it is, we can't prevent every possible programming error on the language level :-)
18:09 TimToady but really we oughta have a way of doing tainting
18:10 TimToady we can't pass tainting through natives, of course, but that doesn't mean we can't find a bit somewhere for normal strings
18:10 TimToady or at least distinguish tainted strings by type
18:10 TimToady then do can refuse to work with a tainted string
18:11 TimToady we don't have to make tainting completely orthogonal as it is in P5
18:11 kjs_ joined #perl6
18:12 TimToady might be an interesting thing for GSoC, but maybe too easy
18:12 TimToady but a thorough security review for GSoC might be more the right size
18:13 TimToady kinda hard to judge the results though...
18:13 vendethiel moritz: we can try our best, ofc :)
18:13 TimToady and, of course, security should be everyone's concern
18:15 perl6_newbee so, better I leave befor geekosaur whacks me with a 2x4 ^^ But I have a feeling this was not my last occasion to show my lack of programming skill. cu
18:15 Zaydon joined #perl6
18:15 TimToady we're all in that boat :)
18:16 * geekosaur ex-dba, has a special dislike for sql injection >.>
18:16 perl6_newbee :-)
18:19 telex joined #perl6
18:20 pmurias joined #perl6
18:21 pmurias geekosaur: if we actually had the grammar parse sql instead of using string that would stop the sql injection
18:22 pmurias $dbh.do(sql { INSERT INTO foo values ($this_is_sane_now) })
18:23 geekosaur that would be nice, yes, except for the person who has to maintain the sql language and all its-per-database-engine polymorphs :)
18:23 pmurias somebody has to pay the price of progress
18:25 Mouq .o( sql :$db { … } )
18:26 TimToady oh, more client damage
18:26 TimToady we should handle that one too
18:26 anaee____ joined #perl6
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18:41 flussence m: say 'a'.invert
18:41 camelia rakudo-moar abc54e: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 58416 bytes␤»
18:42 ash_gti joined #perl6
18:43 timotimo yeah, Str.invert does that
18:43 timotimo infiniloops, gobbling up memory
18:44 flussence .oO( correct output is obviously "ɐ" )
18:46 Kristien joined #perl6
18:46 Kristien good morning
18:46 TimToady .oO(  is:<===> Str, Str, "Str is Str";  )
18:46 ash_gti_ joined #perl6
18:47 ash_gti_ hi
18:50 pierrot joined #perl6
18:55 pmurias_ joined #perl6
18:55 pmurias nqp-js: say(('foobar' ~~ /bar/))
18:55 camelia nqp-js: OUTPUT«Trace: NYI: NYI QAST::Regex rxtype = scan␤    at null.<anonymous> (/home/camelia/nqp-js/tmp.js:99:9)␤    at _ [as $call] (/home/camelia/nqp-js/node_modules/nqp-runtime/sixmodel.js:44:33)␤    at null.<anonymous> (/home/camelia/nqp-js/node_modules/QRegex.js:6139:2…»
18:56 pmurias not updated :/
18:56 * sjn tries to make sense of strip_path_prefix in core/Main.pm (used in gen-usage())
18:58 molaf joined #perl6
18:59 sjn what's $*SPEC for?
18:59 timotimo windows vs linux vs mac line separators and stuff
18:59 timotimo er
18:59 timotimo path separators
18:59 psch m: $*SPEC.WHAT.say
18:59 camelia rakudo-moar abc54e: OUTPUT«(IO::Spec::Unix)␤»
18:59 timotimo i don't think line separators are part of that
19:00 liztormato joined #perl6
19:00 geekosaur does anyone care about old mac path separators any more?
19:00 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
19:00 pierrot joined #perl6
19:00 geekosaur (or line separators for that matter)
19:00 timotimo dunno if they are actually in there a tall
19:00 liztormato Please ignore $*SPEC. It is on the way out
19:01 TimToady oh, we could have "isn't" now :)
19:01 dalek doc: c4a4516 | (John Gabriele)++ | README.md:
19:01 dalek doc: Add reference to the Contributing doc.
19:01 dalek doc:
19:01 dalek doc: See issue #53.
19:01 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c4a4516fd7
19:01 El_Che TimToady: your FOSDEM talk may be online soon.
19:01 TimToady oh oh :)
19:02 El_Che oh, do you have plans for Christmas? :)
19:02 TimToady I've got a bottle of port I've been saving since Braga :)
19:02 TimToady probably turned to vinegar by now...
19:03 El_Che talks are slowly being uploaded (it looks quite random). I'll keep the channel posted
19:03 El_Che good for salads!
19:03 liztormato TimToady: any reason for it being a port wine?
19:03 TimToady well, I'll be on the road for much of the next two days, so maybe it'll blow over by then
19:03 TimToady that's what they make in Braga
19:04 TimToady and early on I decided to save it for the "real" Christmas
19:04 sjn Ports usually store very well
19:04 TimToady well, I don't exactly have a wine cellar
19:04 sjn (being fortified and all)
19:05 sjn TimToady: shouldn't be a problem, unless the bottle cork has been damaged
19:05 TimToady maybe I'll also save my bottle of Perl 6 till then too :)
19:06 dalek doc: 319d8dc | (Matthias Krull)++ | README.md:
19:06 dalek doc: Linked documents refered to in the README
19:06 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/319d8dcc51
19:06 dalek doc: 6598a1c | timo++ | README.md:
19:06 dalek doc: Merge pull request #54 from mkrull/master
19:06 dalek doc:
19:06 dalek doc: Linked documents refered to in the README
19:06 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6598a1cb30
19:06 TimToady in Perl culture we appreciate both the old and the new
19:09 ash_gti joined #perl6
19:09 raydiak postmodernism ftw
19:11 El_Che postmodernist would be "the new is the old and we despise them both" :)
19:11 ash_gti so, I started working on an update to the perl.tmbundle to have perl6 and nqp syntax based off the vim-perl syntax highlighitng, I should be able to also convert it to an atom package as well, which is what github uses for syntax highlighting
19:12 timotimo oh, way cool!
19:12 timotimo ever since we got perl6 highlighting for a short period of time on github and gist, i'm sorely missing it :(
19:12 * psch usually turns of highlighting in vim because it's so slow :/
19:13 ash_gti the vim regular expression syntax is... new to me so its a learning process
19:13 ash_gti also, its weird
19:15 ash_gti https://github.com/ashgti/perl.tmbundle is where its located if anyone wants to comment on it, but again, I am working on building up the syntax from the ground up based off ther vim-perl perl6 syntax so its consistent with that
19:16 pierrot joined #perl6
19:18 timotimo is there some easy place to test your latest code on some perl6 code to see if the coloring is good?
19:18 ash_gti um... I have the perl6/roast checked out and just browse that using TextMate
19:20 dalek rakudo/nom: 673f50e | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
19:20 dalek rakudo/nom: allow U+02026 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS
19:20 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/673f50ed52
19:20 TimToady it now parses ELLIPSIS but only works as yada, not as sequence
19:21 TimToady if anyone wants to hunt down why that doesn't work while I'm on the road, feel free
19:21 ash_gti so, atom has a tool for converting TextMate bundles into atom packages
19:21 TimToady gets Cannot find method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' for some reason
19:22 ash_gti and then, I think you can use github/lunguist to check a source file against the grammar
19:22 FROGGS Kristien: isnt there a rule that there is no padding before the first member? does that not hold for unions?
19:22 raydiak El_Che: I think you are at least half right, maybe more depending on perspective...and that type of evaluation is (part of) my understanding of postmodernism :)
19:23 laouji joined #perl6
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19:27 Kristien FROGGS: not for unions
19:27 TimToady If there are autocorrectors to „old/sold/liquidated module“ then we should probably support that too
19:27 Kristien except (implicitly) for the largest member
19:27 TimToady don't want to be cultural imperialists any more than we have to
19:30 TimToady well, hitting the road now, so catch y'all on the flip side
19:30 jnthn TimToady: Safe travels
19:31 * jnthn digs back into native-ref hacking
19:31 ash_gti can varaibles contain '<' ?
19:31 ash_gti as part of their name that is
19:31 masak no.
19:31 * psch shakes his fist at jvm natives
19:31 masak m: my $foo:<+> = 4; say $foo:<+>
19:31 camelia rakudo-moar abc54e: OUTPUT«4␤»
19:31 masak ash_gti: except like that.
19:31 psch Class.forName("B") NPEs, which makes everything complicated
19:32 psch well, not quite.  Type.getElementType() for "[B" NPEs
19:33 espadrine joined #perl6
19:33 jnthn psch: Ugh...
19:33 psch jnthn: yes.  i have read about natives making stuff complicated, and now i know one case where it actually happens
19:33 psch i used to think "but autoboxing?" :)
19:33 psch except arrays can't autobox, for reasons
19:35 psch i've implemented three (i.e. 2-and-a-bit — the last one is still buggy) paths to jvm-interop by now
19:35 psch 1) retry last handle, 2) see if naive marshalling is sufficient and 3) cast arguments around to make them fit
19:35 ash_gti joined #perl6
19:36 ash_gti so, %a<b> should be highlighted like: «syntax-varaible»%a«/syntax-variable»«syntax-hash-access»<b>«/syntax-hash-access»
19:36 psch which i think is a decent approach.  2) works for methods that take arguments that fit our REPRs, i.e. Long, Double, String or another interop'd class
19:36 ash_gti forgive my weird markup just trying to think about how that should look in an editor
19:38 amaliapomian joined #perl6
19:38 liztormato_ joined #perl6
19:38 psch ash_gti: i suppose an argument could be made for having <> as quoteword even when it's used for hash access
19:44 rurban joined #perl6
19:44 ash_gti m: my $foo:«<» = 4; say $foo«>»
19:44 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/0xG4Fqf7Oy␤Variable '$foo' is not declared␤at /tmp/0xG4Fqf7Oy:1␤------> 3my $foo:«<» = 4; say $foo«>»7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤        shell-quote words␤»
19:44 ash_gti m: my $foo:«<» = 4; say $foo:«>»
19:44 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ku3HlkN03K␤Variable '$foo:<>>' is not declared␤at /tmp/ku3HlkN03K:1␤------> 3my $foo:«<» = 4; say $foo:«>»7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤»
19:45 ash_gti err, oops again
19:45 ash_gti m: my $foo:«<» = 4; say $foo:«<»
19:45 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/EeBpi11kjv␤Variable '$foo:<<>' is not declared. Did you mean '$foo:«<»'?␤at /tmp/EeBpi11kjv:1␤------> 3my $foo:«<» = 4; say $foo:«<»7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤»
19:46 _mg_ joined #perl6
19:46 ash_gti thats... interesting
19:46 Sqirrel joined #perl6
19:50 zakharyas joined #perl6
19:51 pierrot joined #perl6
19:55 dalek doc: 83ae692 | (Salve J. Nilsen)++ | lib/Language/grammars.pod:
19:55 dalek doc: Typo fix
19:55 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/83ae692c55
19:58 dalek doc: dac5dc3 | moritz++ | README.md:
19:58 dalek doc: README: Add "git grep TODO" as a starting point for contributing
19:58 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/dac5dc3da8
19:58 dalek rakudo/native-ref: 1aaa5ae | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
19:58 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Non-rw routines should de-containerize native refs.
19:58 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1aaa5aedf9
19:58 dalek rakudo/native-ref: 0f981d8 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
19:58 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Run S06-routine-modifiers/native-lvalue-subroutines.t.
19:58 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0f981d8711
20:00 dalek doc: 25d8502 | (Matthias Krull)++ | README.md:
20:00 dalek doc: Revert "Add reference to the Contributing doc."
20:00 dalek doc:
20:00 dalek doc: This reverts commit c4a4516fd7ae9e679c1ca16b0f21866913870153.
20:00 dalek doc:
20:00 dalek doc: Already added. Agreed upon by the contributor.
20:00 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/25d8502f7d
20:17 pierrot joined #perl6
20:22 mohij m: say so "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet [ xyz | .+! ] End /
20:22 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«False␤»
20:22 mohij m: say so "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet [ xyz || .+! ] End /
20:22 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«True␤»
20:23 mohij Can someone explain whay the first one fails?
20:25 Kristien why'd you use sed, grep and cut when you have AWK?
20:26 pippo joined #perl6
20:26 pippo o/ #perl6
20:27 mohij Kristien: awk the AWKmighty?
20:27 Mouq m: say so "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet [ xyz | ....! ] End /
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter ! (must be quoted to match literally)␤at /tmp/oya4EdiENe:1␤------> 3y so "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet [ xyz | ....7⏏5! ] End /␤Unable to parse expression in metachar:sym<[ ]>; couldn't find final …»
20:27 Mouq m: say so "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet [ xyz | .... ] End /
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«True␤»
20:28 pippo m: my $i = 2; while $i > 0 {FIRST say 'Hello'; $i--}
20:28 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: ( no output )
20:28 pippo No FIRST phaser on while loops ?
20:29 dalek doc: d45aed3 | moritz++ | CONTRIBUTING.md:
20:29 dalek doc: Mention #perl6 in CONTRIBUTING.md
20:29 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d45aed3a21
20:29 FROGGS m: my $i = 2; while $i > 0 {once say 'Hello'; $i--}
20:29 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
20:30 FROGGS dunno... either FIRST ist not about loops or it is buggy
20:31 pippo m: my $i = 2; for 1..2 {FIRST say 'Hello'; $i--}
20:31 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
20:31 pippo apparently it is about some loops but not all.
20:32 nwc10 jnthn: only the test failures you expect on nativref
20:32 nwc10 t/spec/S32-exceptions/misc.rakudo.moar and t/spec/integration/weird-errors.t
20:32 nwc10 (the latter seems to fail for me, and I still haven't figured out why)
20:33 nwc10 t/spec/S02-lists/tree.rakudo.moar
20:33 nwc10 TODO passed:   10t
20:33 nwc10 (er, where did that 't' come from)
20:33 dalek perl6.org: 0f1dff0 | moritz++ | source/getting-started/involved.html:
20:33 dalek perl6.org: Add link to "help wanted" section of perl6/doc
20:33 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/0f1dff088a
20:34 Kristien from a concatenation operation
20:34 pippo FROGGS: thanks.
20:35 pippo left #perl6
20:45 dalek nqp/native-ref: 1e2d757 | jnthn++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
20:45 dalek nqp/native-ref: Elide code-gen of many lexicalref/attributeref ops
20:45 dalek nqp/native-ref:
20:45 dalek nqp/native-ref: In the case we have a straight assignment, this lowers into a cheap
20:45 dalek nqp/native-ref: bind operation, as before any of the native-ref work.
20:45 dalek nqp/native-ref: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/1e2d757e42
20:46 mohij Mouq: No idea either, right?
20:47 Mouq mohij: What I don't understand is why the second one is True
20:48 mohij I would have expected the catchall to backtrack and finally match. What do you think should cause the failure?
20:48 Mouq m: say "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet [ xyz || .+! ] End /
20:48 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«「asdfEnd」␤»
20:49 Mouq m: say "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet [ xyz || (.+!) ] End /
20:49 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
20:49 Mouq m: say "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet ( xyz || .+! ) End /
20:49 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
20:49 kjs_ joined #perl6
20:49 Mouq :?
20:49 mohij that definitely looks not right...
20:50 Mouq mohij: Well, you're telling it "don't backtract" twice by saying "ratchet" and then "!"
20:50 Mouq *track
20:50 Mouq m: say "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet [ xyz || .+! ] (End) /
20:50 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«「asdfEnd」␤ 0 => 「End」␤»
20:51 Mouq That's definitely weird. Maybe some kind of optimization that's breaking things
20:51 mohij isn't both ? and ! meant to turn backtracking *on*?
20:52 mohij spec says : turns backtracking off and ! is greedy backtracking, ? is frugal backtracking (whatever that means)
20:52 moritz opposite of greedy
20:52 mohij what does greedy mean in context of backtracking?
20:53 PerlJam it doesn't.
20:53 PerlJam my read is that it does two things: greed and backtracking.
20:54 moritz mohij: taking as many characters as possible
20:54 moritz mohij: whereas frugal tries to take as few as possible
20:55 mohij ah! greedy and frugal backtracking means the same as greedy and frugal matching (that's the word I always associated greedy with)
20:56 _mg_ joined #perl6
21:00 PerlJam m: say "asdfEnd" ~~ /:ratchet (  xyz || .+! ) (End) /;
21:00 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
21:00 PerlJam That's got to be a bug because changing whether I capture or not shouldn't change whether I match or not
21:03 dalek specs: 4693323 | lizmat++ | S24-testing.pod:
21:03 dalek specs: Document new features of is()/isnt()
21:03 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/469332388b
21:04 masak I'm of two minds about the change to &is.
21:04 * moritz too
21:05 lizmat fwiw, I showed that about 10 tests were passing for the wrong reason
21:05 masak yes, this fixes |Tux|++'s use case, but it also introduces a pretty big exception, and makes &is harder to explain.
21:05 masak lizmat: oh, that changes matters a bit.
21:05 masak if people are already expecting it to work as now spec'd.
21:06 lizmat m: use Test; my Int $a; is ($a = Nil),Nil   # used to pass
21:06 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤␤# Failed test at lib/Test.pm line 110␤# expected: (Nil)␤#      got: (Int)␤»
21:07 kjs_ joined #perl6
21:07 lizmat so, the change may cause some test breakage in the ecosystem
21:08 lizmat but I'm pretty sure they will point to tests that were passing for the wrong reason
21:08 lizmat such as *any* type object stringyfying to ''
21:09 lizmat moritz: now *I* am in 2 minds about documenting this change in doc
21:09 lizmat should I or shouldn't I
21:11 moritz lizmat: if you don't revert it in rakudo, document it :-)
21:12 lizmat then I'll document it
21:12 lizmat perhaps we should call the Mu:U candidate "type_ok" ?
21:12 PerlJam lizmat: FWIW, I think your version is what people mean to test when they use "is"
21:15 PerlJam lizmat: btw, should we start introducing  "cmp-ok", "dies-ok", etc.  ?
21:15 lizmat probably  :-)
21:17 rhr joined #perl6
21:18 bjz joined #perl6
21:19 dalek doc: b2b04fa | lizmat++ | lib/Language/testing.pod:
21:19 dalek doc: Document new features of is()/isnt()
21:19 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b2b04fa17d
21:19 moritz lizmat++
21:20 kaare_ joined #perl6
21:24 Mouq mohij: Ohh, yeah. Sorry
21:32 Kristien joined #perl6
21:34 dolmen joined #perl6
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: 4e89bb2 | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: Make <a b c>.invert no longer infiniloop
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom:
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: It feels like someone just forgot to implement List.revert().  This should
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: fix all infiniloops related to .invert
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4e89bb2a57
21:35 lizmat soon: $ 6 '<a b c>.invert.perl.say'
21:35 lizmat ("a" => 0, "b" => 1, "c" => 2).list
21:36 moritz isn't invert a hash method?
21:36 timotimo neato, thanks lizmat
21:36 lizmat moritz: yes, and also an Any
21:36 moritz lizmat: then I'd expect it to coerce to hash
21:36 lizmat however, the Any candidate called .list.invert
21:37 moritz m: say %( <a b c> ).invert.perl
21:37 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected␤  in method STORE at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:11141␤  in method hash at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1656␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/YPM8nXlfqr:1␤␤»
21:37 colomon joined #perl6
21:37 moritz that's what I'd expect
21:37 moritz m: say %( <a b c d> ).invert.perl
21:37 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«("b" => "a", "d" => "c").list␤»
21:38 lizmat sadly the specification of .invert is a bit slushy
21:38 lizmat it currently states: Produces a backmapping of values to keys, expanding list values
21:38 lizmat into multiple pairs.  (The C<< X=> >> expands C<$v> if it is a list.)
21:38 lizmat [NB: this may need refinement to handle keys that do C<Positional>.]
21:39 lizmat S32/Containers:1008
21:39 synopsebot Link: http://design.perl6.org/S32/Containers.html#line_1008
21:39 lizmat so I was taking the behaviour of .kv on a List as a guidline
21:40 lizmat m: <a b c>.kv.perl.say
21:40 camelia rakudo-moar 673f50: OUTPUT«(0, "a", 1, "b", 2, "c").list␤»
21:40 moritz lizmat: well, if it's a hash method, it should just coerce to hash the normal way
21:40 moritz lizmat: ... unless explicitly stated otherwise
21:40 lizmat it is *also* a hash method
21:40 moritz no, it is *primarily* a hash method
21:41 lizmat $ 6 '{ a => 42, b=>65 }.invert.perl.say'
21:41 lizmat (42 => "a", 65 => "b").list
21:41 moritz just like substr is *primarily* a Str method, and only a method Cool for purposes of coercion
21:41 moritz and the reason that we have reverse, flip and invert is that we have three major data types that we want to reverse in some way
21:42 moritz .flip coerces to Str
21:42 moritz .reverse coerces to List/Positional
21:42 moritz .invert to Hash/Associative
21:42 lizmat ok, but then how should we handle:
21:42 lizmat m: "a".hash.perl.say
21:42 camelia rakudo-moar 4e89bb: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected␤  in method STORE at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:11145␤  in method hash at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1656␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/jABsLcIB_8:1␤␤»
21:42 jnthn That's the answer I'd expect.
21:43 lizmat Any.invert currently coerced to l.list
21:43 lizmat *.list
21:43 lizmat from moritz I gather that is wrong, it should coerce to .hash
21:43 moritz well, then Any.invert is currently wrong
21:44 jnthn I guess I could kinda see .invert being defined on anything that can be viewed as having keys/values, and you can .kv a list.
21:44 lizmat moritz: what should it be then?
21:44 lizmat well, that's exactly the approach I took
21:44 moritz lizmat: self.hash.invert
21:44 jnthn But with what moritz is saying, that's still easy to get: @list.kv.invert would do the right thing
21:44 lizmat m: "a".hash.invert  # doesn't work
21:44 camelia rakudo-moar 4e89bb: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected␤  in method STORE at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:11145␤  in method hash at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1656␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/HoY8tu7EbO:1␤␤»
21:44 moritz lizmat: that's fine
21:45 jnthn lizmat: I'd not expect it to work
21:45 moritz lizmat: just like 'mumble'.sqrt doesn't work
21:45 jnthn lizmat: It's meaningless. I think that would given an error.
21:45 lizmat m: <a b c>.hash.invert  # doesn't work
21:45 camelia rakudo-moar 4e89bb: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected␤  in method STORE at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:11145␤  in method hash at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1656␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/zRaY6NE4wQ:1␤␤»
21:45 moritz p5 makes that a warning only
21:45 moritz dunno if we want that
21:45 lizmat m: <a b c>..kv.say
21:45 camelia rakudo-moar 4e89bb: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/SpPx2tza3z␤Calling 'kv' requires arguments (if you meant to operate on $_, please use .kv or use an explicit invocant or argument)␤    Expected any of: ␤    :(Any $x)␤at /tmp/SpPx2tza3z:1␤------> 3<a…»
21:45 lizmat m: <a b c>.kv.say
21:45 camelia rakudo-moar 4e89bb: OUTPUT«0 a 1 b 2 c␤»
21:45 moritz lizmat: not every coercion has to succeed. That doesn't mean have to look for different coercions
21:46 lizmat my reasoning:
21:46 lizmat 1: .invert reverses keys and values
21:46 lizmat 2. this can be thought of as using .kv
21:47 dalek rakudo/native-ref: b6f8fb5 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
21:47 dalek rakudo/native-ref: Fix optimizer up to know about lexicalref.
21:47 dalek rakudo/native-ref: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b6f8fb52ed
21:47 lizmat 3. Any.kv produces a list of values and indices
21:47 lizmat 4. ergo Any.invert is just like that
21:47 lizmat it makes a lot of sense to me
21:47 lizmat but I guess I'm alone
21:47 moritz lizmat: I see it more like:
21:48 moritz 1. most methods are tied to a data type.
21:48 moritz 2. invert is tied to hashes
21:48 moritz 3. so we coerce to Hash first
21:48 moritz which is consistent with how just about every other coercive method works
21:49 lizmat I see .invert more tied to what it produces, not to which it "belongs"
21:50 dalek rakudo/nom: 3607d7b | lizmat++ | src/core/ (2 files):
21:50 dalek rakudo/nom: Stop Any.invert from infinilooping another way
21:50 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3607d7bf93
21:50 moritz lizmat++
21:51 lizmat moritz++ # even up the karma, as I don't think I deserved this
21:52 jnthn lizmat++, moritz++ :)
21:52 moritz lizmat: you let yourself be persuaded. That's a rather rare trait in a human :-)
21:52 jnthn The work on native-ref to get to being mergable now is 1) JVM porting, 2) performance work
21:52 lizmat well, don't get me wrong: I'm not persuaded at all
21:53 lizmat I think this is blocking a rather useful idiom from being used
21:53 lizmat but I son't think it is important enough to fight about
21:53 lizmat *don't
21:53 PerlJam lizmat, moritz: I'm wondering why we don't just fail for now until a concensus is built or TimToady invokes Rule #1
21:54 lizmat jnthn++  # for *real* work
21:54 lizmat PerlJam: that is effectively the case now:
21:54 lizmat $ 6 '"a".hash.perl.say'
21:54 lizmat Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected
21:54 PerlJam aye.  problem solved :)
21:54 lizmat $ 6 '<a b c>.hash.perl.say'
21:54 lizmat Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected
21:54 lizmat it no longer infiniloops
21:54 moritz m: say 'foo'.sqrt
21:54 camelia rakudo-moar 4e89bb: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏foo' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in method <anon> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14984␤  in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2822␤  in any find_method a…»
21:54 lizmat $ 6 '<a b c>.invert.perl.say'
21:54 lizmat Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected
21:54 moritz same situation here: coercion doesn't success, thus the whole operation fails
21:55 moritz I don't see why 'a'.hash should be different in this regard
21:55 moritz nor any operation that needs to coerce to hash first
21:55 lizmat sorry, that was a pasto
21:55 lizmat please see my last paste here
21:56 PerlJam m: <a b c>.kv.invert.perl.say
21:56 camelia rakudo-moar 4e89bb: OUTPUT«(0 => 0, "a" => 1, 1 => 2, "b" => 3, 2 => 4, "c" => 5).list␤»
21:56 lizmat the reason I did this, was reading the backlog and someone mentioning it infinilooping
21:57 lizmat then reading the synopsis, it seemed to be the right thing to do
21:58 lizmat it's no longer infinilooping: that was the important bit for me
21:58 PerlJam aye, lizmat++ for that.
21:59 dalek rakudo/newio: aff3d16 | lizmat++ | src/core/List.pm:
21:59 dalek rakudo/newio: Make List.kv completely flatten its values
21:59 dalek rakudo/newio: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aff3d166e6
21:59 dalek rakudo/newio: 6662cdc | lizmat++ | src/core/array_slice.pm:
21:59 dalek rakudo/newio: Make foo[] return self as with foo{}
21:59 bartolin could someone on a windows box try to run this test file: https://gist.github.com/usev6/f9d0f6ca4e213e89b546 ?
21:59 lizmat sorry dalek, nwc10: I did it again :-)
21:59 dalek joined #perl6
22:00 bartolin I'm trying to add some repl specific tests to S19-command-line/repl.t but I'm not sure how to do that in a platform independent way
22:01 lizmat bartolin: I had a similar issue with t/spec/S17-supply/watch_path.t
22:01 lizmat in the end, I made a single subtest for the environment I *could* test
22:02 lizmat and then, depending on $*DISTRO.name, execute that one, or pass
22:02 moritz bartolin: the REPL isn't part of the design document, so I'd argue that REPL tests don't belong into roast
22:02 bartolin lizmat: I see. I could follow that way.
22:02 lizmat perhaps that could work for you?
22:03 * moritz -> sleep
22:03 lizmat and indeed, perhaps it shouldn't live in roast, but in t/02-rakudo ?
22:03 lizmat good night, moritz
22:03 bartolin moritz: well, I see your point. good night!
22:05 bartolin I wouldn't mind to have the tests outside of roast. But given that there are quite some tickets about REPL specific behaviour it would be nice to have some tests for that.
22:05 lizmat bartolin++ for working on it
22:05 bartolin t/02-rakudo sounds fine to me.
22:05 lizmat yup
22:05 * lizmat also calls it a night
22:06 bartolin good night, lizmat
22:07 [Coke] ~~ lizmat
22:08 jnthn 'night lizmat, moritz
22:12 Kristien My GC is as thread-safe as strtok.
22:13 geekosaur *eyeroll*
22:13 vendethiel *g*
22:13 * PerlJam tosses a strtok_r at Kristien
22:14 Kristien boost::split
22:16 * geekosaur isn't sure strtok() is even single-thread safe, considering that it destructively modifies the string
22:16 Kristien It's a C API. Of course it's not safe.
22:17 leont strtok not being reentrant is a long known issues
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22:33 mohij Are the two regex strange-behaviours rakudobug worthy?
22:34 jnthn mohij: Only glanced them in passing, but looked so to me.
22:35 * mohij looks how to get a rt account
22:35 mohij jnthn: thanks!
22:35 PerlJam mohij: just send an email to rakudobug@perl.org
22:36 mohij PerlJam: Is there any documentation on formatting and content?
22:36 PerlJam mohij: um ... "do what masak does"  :)
22:37 mls joined #perl6
22:37 * mohij looks up a bug reported by masak
22:37 jnthn mohij: Most important is three pieces of info: 1) what code you ran, 2) what happened, 3) what you expected
22:37 laouji joined #perl6
22:39 kjs_ joined #perl6
22:49 Kristien bye!
22:50 raiph joined #perl6
22:50 masak mohij: here's my method: I copy-paste the relevant IRC discussion, and then remove everything that does not contribute to what jnthn said.
22:51 jnthn Because anything that doesn't contribute to what I say is clearly worthless. :P
22:51 mohij masak: Good hint for next time. Both reports are already out though. :-)
22:52 masak cool.
22:52 PerlJam mohij++
22:52 * masak checks mohij++'s RT tickets
22:53 masak very good on the three pieces of info.
22:54 masak one missing detail which copy/pasting from IRC/camelia gives you automatically is the git commit of Rakudo.
22:54 masak though that's not crucial -- the timestamp of the RT ticket works equally well, I guess.
22:54 masak so, all in all, mohij++ :)
23:04 mls joined #perl6
23:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 0915755 | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
23:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
23:12 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/09157559ed
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