Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-03-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:01 virtualsue timotimo: you'd have to ask ilmari. i gather he barely saw any of it even so.
00:03 timotimo holy wow.
00:03 timotimo apparently just using at_pos instead of AT-POS (which has the burden of making sure the program will warn about its impending deprecation) makes farabi serving pages A WHOLE LOT slower
00:03 timotimo that's a way to discourage deprecated methods
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00:20 ugexe i keep getting the following error during gen/jvm/BOOTSTRAP.nqp on win32 now: java.lang.LinkageError: loader (instance of  org/perl6/nqp/runtime/ByteClassLoader): attempted  duplicate class definition for name: "2298F07D3EE83B7B2FB42666D8F5903870D8701D"
00:22 ugexe the hash(?) changes each time though
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00:43 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 5a32219 | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
00:43 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
00:43 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/5a32219572
00:43 dalek perl6-roast-data: c3b41a1 | coke++ | / (9 files):
00:43 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
00:43 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/c3b41a10d7
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00:55 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: fdb8ed9 | hoelzro++ | / (2 files):
00:55 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: Decouple completion from linenoise
00:55 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fdb8ed9433
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01:05 b2gills nsharrok: I have my doubts that anyone has attempted that
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01:08 Mouq hoelzro: Is there some way to avoid doing self.eval("use Linenoise;…") over and over? maybe bind to a list of functions and then assign each variable to each position of the returned list?
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01:10 * Mouq wonders if we could allow "use Linenoise:from<Perl6>" in NQP…
01:12 [Coke] Wouldn't you need to load Perl 6 to do that?
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01:22 hoelzro Mouq: I would like to find a way; I'll be refining it over time
01:22 hoelzro I don't think NQP supports use ...:from<...>
01:57 nsharrok Thanks Brad. I hadn't seen anything on IIS setup. I'm having a go at setting up a handler mapping. I'll let you know
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02:04 dalek gtk-simple/dllbundle: 3908285 | retupmoca++ | / (28 files):
02:04 dalek gtk-simple/dllbundle: Bundle .dll files for windows
02:04 dalek gtk-simple/dllbundle:
02:04 dalek gtk-simple/dllbundle: Note that this introduces a 300 line NativeLib.pm6 file to properly
02:04 dalek gtk-simple/dllbundle: load the .dll files when they aren't in the system path. See the comment
02:04 dalek gtk-simple/dllbundle: at the top of that file for details.
02:04 dalek gtk-simple/dllbundle: review: https://github.com/perl6/gt​k-simple/commit/390828537d
02:06 retupmoca ^ can a couple of people look at that GTK::Simple branch and let me know if we want something like that?
02:06 retupmoca or if it isn't worth it and we should just point people to the GTK download page
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02:10 retupmoca (use case: I have a toy windows program that uses GTK::Simple. If I can distribute it without mucking with $PATH and 3rd-party installs, I would be very happy)
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02:17 skids m: my uint32 @s; my uint32 @t; @s »+« @t;
02:17 camelia rakudo-moar af6bd0: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'array[uint32]'␤  in sub hyper at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22228␤  in block  at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22094␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/hblT4N5yQN:1␤␤»
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02:20 azawawi hi
02:21 skids o/
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02:52 skids m: my $i = 0; my @A = 1,2,3; @A.push(@A.map: { $_ }); @A.say; my uint32 @a = 1,2,3; @a.push(@a.map: { die(@a.gist) if $i++ > 10; $_ }); @a.say;
02:52 camelia rakudo-moar af6bd0: OUTPUT«1 2 3 1 2 3␤1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/kxA4JxTEJb:1␤␤»
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02:59 adu hi skarn
02:59 adu hi skids
03:00 skids o/
03:00 adu how goes?
03:00 skids Having fun working some native sized types into Sum.
03:00 adu skids: ooo the crypto digest thing?
03:01 skids Not seeing much speedup, because I think my slowness is in the marshalling.
03:01 adu skids: have you tried a disasm?
03:01 japhb .botsnack
03:01 yoleaux 21 Mar 2015 09:37Z <nine_> japhb: I cannot reproduce your MUTEX_LOCK Inline::Perl5 failure. Can you give me some information like which exact Perl 5 version with which configuration options you're using and maybe a backtrace?
03:01 yoleaux :D
03:01 yoleaux 22 Mar 2015 12:07Z <Ulti> japhb: let me know if there is anything I can do to make this worthy of perl-bench https://github.com/japhb/perl6-bench/pull/23
03:02 japhb .tell Ulti OK, I replied to your perl6-bench pull request.
03:02 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to Ulti.
03:02 skids adu: no, I did try to make sense of a profile run butI don't know enough guts to figure out what to look for.
03:03 japhb nine_: I'll run a fresh build now, and see if I can recreate the Inline::Perl5 problem with Rakudo HEAD
03:04 adu skids: what's the difference between buf8 and blob8?
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03:04 skids blob8 ir ro, buf8 rw
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03:04 skids *is
03:04 adu ah
03:05 skids m: say buf8 ~~ blob8; say blob8 ~~ buf8
03:05 camelia rakudo-moar af6bd0: OUTPUT«False␤False␤»
03:05 skids hrm.  works for MMD.
03:06 adu skids: hmm, I tried building it and got "lib/Sum/Recourse.pm6"
03:06 adu skids: "Failed building" ...
03:06 skids Yeah, jvm is messed up right now.
03:07 adu I'm on moar
03:07 skids Sure?  that's where jvm fails.
03:07 adu I'm on moar, for sure
03:08 skids I just did a panda install Sum and got through build stage just fine.  How old is your rakudo?
03:08 adu pretty old
03:08 adu 647fbd1
03:08 adu I'm updating now
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03:20 skids Oh well, I don't have time to hunt down a "Must parameterize array[T]" mystery precomp problem before bed, so a push will have to wait.
03:23 adu skids: so I just updated rakudo to latest, and rebuilt Sum, and no luck
03:24 skids Is this Win?
03:24 adu skids: Mac
03:24 skids Ah.
03:24 adu http://pastie.org/10046356
03:25 skids Well, at least that is more helpful than the JVM.  Wonder why OSX has different nativecall.
03:26 adu skids: macho?
03:27 adu there are actually two major differences, linux uses ELF, mac uses Mach-O, and ELF files only contain 1 arch, whereas Mach-O files can contain x86-32, x86-64, ppc, ppc64, etc.
03:28 skids Maybe Mach-O-specific code is lagging behind.
03:30 skids I would expect if you were accidentally loading the out-of-tree older zavolaj stuff that it would blow up sooner than that, but might be worth checking.
03:30 adu skids: I dunno
03:32 adu skids: but userspace mac stuff is usually pretty portable to/from linux
03:32 adu but the linker generally messes up any plans of portability
03:33 skids Unfortunately no bsd or mac reports at testers.p6c.org lately.
03:33 adu hmm
03:35 [Coke] How does one submit reports to testers.p6c.org ?
03:35 [Coke] (there's no docs on the home page)
03:35 skids Yeah it's a magic env var when running panda.  It really needs to be put on the testers.p6c.org front page.
03:36 adu what's the var?
03:36 skids It's on a blog somewhere, looking.
03:36 [Coke] or in the README on the fork-able site, that would help too
03:37 skids PANDA_SUBMIT_TESTREPORTS
03:37 skids It was in weekly.
03:38 [Coke] IWBNI if rakudo-brew also dealt with panda's path.
03:39 adu woah
03:39 adu this might have something to do with it: http://pastie.org/10046387
03:39 [Coke] I am just built Sum using rakudobrew on OS X with no errors
03:39 [Coke] s/am //
03:40 skids adu: it shouldn't fetch nativecall anymore.
03:40 adu wtf is my problem
03:40 [Coke] why are you fetching nativecall?
03:40 skids adu: probably an old out of date panda cache.
03:40 [Coke] have you upgraded your rakudobrew/panda recently?
03:40 adu [Coke]: yes, about 5 mins ago
03:41 adu how do I panda uninstall?
03:42 skids [Coke]: yeah I was just about to script the necessary steps to refresh panda when you --configure-opts="--prefix=*" when it changed from languages/site to site so I punted today.
03:44 skids adu: it can get a bit messy, especially since the paths just changed.  I would first try mv'ing json/state out of site/panda
03:44 adu I'll try deleting rakudobrew and starting again
03:44 skids You'll probably have to do something in theinstall path as well as that.
03:45 adu skids: install path?
03:45 adu you mean ~/.rakudobrew/bin?
03:45 skids Well, if that is where you installed, you might be OK.
03:46 adu yeah I was going to remove ~/.rakudobrew and start over
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03:46 [Coke] building sum the first time failed. building it a second time with the special env var set for submitting reports, it worked and installed.
03:46 skids but /usr/share/perl6 might exist or /usr/share/languages/perl6 from older stuff.
03:47 adu nope
03:47 adu it's all in ~/.rakudobrew
03:47 skids [Coke] hah well at least I got the ood side of the coin in the stats :-)
03:47 [Coke] how long does it take for submittals to be recorded?
03:47 [Coke] er, reported is a better word.
03:48 skids I didn't remember there eing much delay.
03:48 [Coke] and is "PANDA_SUBMIT_TESTREPORTS=1 panda install Sum" sufficient?
03:48 skids should be I think.
03:48 [Coke] ok, don't see anything at http://testers.p6c.org/dist/S​/Sum/Brian%20S.%20Julin.html
03:48 [Coke] nor any indication in the run that it sent anything
03:50 skids I'm running the same now.
03:50 adu oh no http://testers.p6c.org/dist/C/C​::Parser/Andrew%20Robbins.html
03:51 adu does that red mean that the perl6-j screwed up, or does that mean I need to write a fix for jvm?
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03:51 azawawi how can one force panda into installing into core lib instead of site/lib?
03:52 azawawi e.g. panda install HTTP::Easy
03:52 skids azawawi: I haven't figured that out yet myself.
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03:54 azawawi skids: dual life modules pain...
03:55 adu azawawi: symlinks?
03:56 azawawi adu: what about windows?
03:56 japhb .tell nine_ Yep, I get 'panic: MUTEX_LOCK (22) [op.c:697].' installing Inline::Perl5 on rakudo-moar-af6bd025a5e102​8b4de047fdbf76da833e92d992 using Ubuntu LTS system perl5: 'This is perl 5, version 18, subversion 2 (v5.18.2) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi'
03:56 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to nine_.
03:56 adu azawawi: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/w​indows/desktop/aa363878%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
03:57 azawawi adu: i know about mklink
03:58 adu azawawi: ah, I didn't
03:58 adu I don't use windows
03:58 azawawi adu: the real problem is with installing a newer version of HTTP::Easy on rakudo. You need to nuke lib/HTTP/*
03:59 azawawi adu: im talking about rakudo star ofcourse
03:59 * skids tried with "export PANDA_SUBMIT_TESTREPORTS=1; panda install" to no avail.
03:59 azawawi skids: tried PANDA_SUBMIT_TESTREPORTS=1 panda install ?
04:00 skids Tried that as well, but the latter would be more definitive if anything.
04:02 skids I do note that is is 2/3 the way through march, and there are few 2015.3 entries compared to 2015.2.  So I'm guessing submissions are not being taken maybe.
04:03 * azawawi takes a look at panda
04:05 skids Anyway, bedtime.
04:07 adu the mac bug still hasn't gotten fixed
04:07 adu http://pastie.org/10046425
04:13 adu o wait
04:13 adu it has been fixed
04:21 adu should I be using ./moar-nom/install/bin or ./moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/bin or ./moar-nom/panda/bin?
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05:32 Mouq Heh. The profiler page doesn't much like hundred-ly recursed functions :P
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06:09 * Mouq just realized ideone.com has a Perl 6 option :O
06:13 Mouq "say $*PERL.compiler" => "rakudo (2014.7)"; "say $*VM" => "parrot (6.6.0)"
06:13 Mouq Could be worse
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08:06 nine_ .tell japhb Cannot repor using the same perl and rakudo version. Will get me an Ubuntu 14.04 LTS VM and try it there.
08:06 yoleaux 03:56Z <japhb> nine_: Yep, I get 'panic: MUTEX_LOCK (22) [op.c:697].' installing Inline::Perl5 on rakudo-moar-af6bd025a5e102​8b4de047fdbf76da833e92d992 using Ubuntu LTS system perl5: 'This is perl 5, version 18, subversion 2 (v5.18.2) built for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi'
08:06 yoleaux nine_: I'll pass your message to japhb.
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08:13 Ven o/, #perl
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08:13 Ven o/, #perl6*.
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08:16 sergot morning \o
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08:18 azawawi hi
08:18 FROGGS morning
08:18 azawawi im looking for the msi for rakudo starr 2015.03
08:19 azawawi s/starr/star
08:19 moritz if it's not on rakudo.org/download/star, it doesn't exit
08:19 moritz *exist
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08:19 FROGGS I'll do that this evening
08:20 azawawi FROGGS++
08:21 azawawi how does one become a win32 release maintainer? :)
08:21 moritz azawawi: by simply doing it
08:22 moritz azawawi: when you have something to upload, I can upload it for you, or give you access directly
08:22 azawawi moritz: i meant the release procedure :)
08:22 FROGGS azawawi: there is an undocumented 10 step instruction list
08:23 FROGGS I probably should put the steps I do online...
08:23 * azawawi listens
08:23 moritz FROGGS: please document it
08:24 abraxxa morning
08:25 abraxxa FROGGS: just saw that my git push halted at the github password prompt ;(
08:25 FROGGS abraxxa: a push to your DBIish?
08:25 nwc10 good *, *
08:25 FROGGS hi nwc10
08:25 abraxxa FROGGS: yes
08:26 FROGGS azawawi: https://gist.github.com/FR​OGGS/6753acf3fe110f100782
08:26 masak morning, #perl6
08:27 FROGGS azawawi: we can get rid of one step or the other by creating the .bat files automagically...
08:27 azawawi FROGGS: sure
08:27 FROGGS azawawi: and I also need to document how your build environment has to look like
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08:53 abraxxa great, the demo oci c apps all don't use floats...
08:54 azawawi FROGGS: could you please send me the msi rakudo star build environment via .tell once you're finished with it?
08:55 moritz abraxxa: have you looked on github for "example" code?
08:55 FROGGS azawawi: will do
08:56 abraxxa moritz: not directly, duckduckgo didn't really bring up anything useful for SQLT_FLT. the datatype docs mention binding as string, but that lead to a segfault
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08:56 abraxxa i've tried DBD::Oracle as template but as I'm no C programmer that code is way over my head
08:56 moritz https://github.com/search?q=SQLT_FL​T&amp;type=Code&amp;utf8=%E2%9C%93
08:56 abraxxa i only say that it also binds using SQLT_FLT
08:57 moritz no idea how useful that is
08:57 FROGGS "bind_unsupported_1.phpt "
08:57 azawawi FROGGS: thanks :)
08:57 abraxxa moritz: thanks
08:58 FROGGS abraxxa: https://github.com/nonrational/qt-everywhere-opens​ource-src-4.8.6/blob/6708f1b28d6a477c22dd8d4745e73​7e3b3b74339/src/sql/drivers/oci/qsql_oci.cpp#L324
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09:00 abraxxa looks like what I'm doing
09:01 abraxxa i'll try to encode some form of OCI tracing
09:01 abraxxa is it possible that signed/unsigned is a problem?
09:01 abraxxa as far as I've seen NativeCall can't distinguish between the two
09:02 abraxxa the error i'm getting is ORA-01024: invalid datatype in OCI call which according to the docs means that I've passed an illegal value to the datatype identifier
09:02 abraxxa which is 1..7 and SQLT_FLT is 4
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09:02 nwc10 http://lostinjit.blogspot.co.at/2015/03/hi​ppyvm-goes-to-y-combinator-and-fails.html -- http://lostinjit.blogspot.co.at/2015/03/hi​ppyvm-goes-to-y-combinator-and-fails.html
09:02 nwc10 whole post and comments are interesting.
09:02 abraxxa i've defined ub2 as int16
09:02 FROGGS no, signedness is about the value, not the type constant it complains about me thinks
09:03 moritz abraxxa: 4 is the same bit pattern in int16 and uint16
09:03 moritz so that doens't matter here
09:03 abraxxa ok, thanks
09:05 dalek roast: 307c450 | lizmat++ | S32-num/rat.t:
09:05 dalek roast: Unfudge passing Rat tests
09:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/307c45066b
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09:07 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 45 commits to rakudo/newio by lizmat
09:10 abraxxa is there debugging/tracing available in nativecall?
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09:11 FROGGS abraxxa: no
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09:29 dalek roast: ff518a8 | lizmat++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
09:29 dalek roast: Add some native WHICH testing
09:29 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ff518a8fd0
09:30 moritz interesting python precedence WTF
09:31 moritz python recycles the + operator on strings for string concatenation
09:32 nwc10 is python sufficiently typed that that works? Or does it have the same mess as JS?
09:32 moritz and the % operator with a string LHS for fmt-like string templating
09:32 moritz nwc10: it never implicitly coerces, so it's less of a wtf
09:32 moritz but
09:32 moritz precedence of % is tighter than +
09:32 moritz so if you have a longish string, and line-break it
09:33 moritz you write that as "first half " + "second half"
09:33 moritz and now you add templating
09:33 moritz "%s half %s half" % ("first", "second")
09:33 moritz splits to
09:33 moritz "%s half " + "%s half" % ("first", "second")
09:33 moritz and BOOM
09:34 moritz because % is tighter than %
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09:35 moritz so you have to write
09:35 moritz ("%s half " + "%s half") % ("first", "second")
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09:44 abraxxa what's the correct method to check for 'not null' on a p6 var of any datatype?
09:46 lizmat m: say Int.DEFINITE; say 42.DEFINITE
09:46 camelia rakudo-moar af6bd0: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
09:46 lizmat S12:1616
09:46 synopsebot Link: http://design.perl6.org/S12.html#line_1616
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09:47 lizmat abraxxa: ^^^
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09:47 abraxxa lizmat: thanks
09:48 abraxxa the variable should allow undefined values too, i just need to check it
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09:49 Timbus that seems awfully special, why not just `defined $var` ?
09:49 abraxxa m: my Int $v = ''; say $v.chars; say $v.DEFINITE;
09:49 camelia rakudo-moar af6bd0: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$v'; expected 'Int' but got 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/y0hxmWLSrU:1␤␤»
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09:51 moritz usually .defined works fine
09:51 moritz no need to scream :-)
09:52 Timbus a blank string though, is defined
10:01 dalek roast: 04af9e7 | lizmat++ | S02-types/WHICH.t:
10:01 dalek roast: Add Buf/Blob to WHICH type checking
10:01 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/04af9e7f9a
10:03 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 101 commits to roast/newio by lizmat
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10:05 lizmat afk&
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10:13 abraxxa m: my Str $v = ''; say $v.chars; say $v.defined;
10:13 camelia rakudo-moar af6bd0: OUTPUT«0␤True␤»
10:13 abraxxa in case of Oracle I think I need to stay with .chars > 0
10:15 abraxxa should a NativeCall sub be defined with { * } now instead of { ... }?
10:15 nwc10 moritz: (delayed) thanks
10:15 nwc10 but of course, your tests will catch that :-/
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10:18 FROGGS m: my Str $v = ''; say $v.chars; say so $v
10:18 camelia rakudo-moar af6bd0: OUTPUT«0␤False␤»
10:19 FROGGS m: my Str $v = ''; say $v.chars; say ?$v
10:19 camelia rakudo-moar af6bd0: OUTPUT«0␤False␤»
10:19 FROGGS abraxxa: an empty string boolifies to false
10:20 FROGGS abraxxa: so if it boolifies to true (in e.g. 'if $v {'), then it is a Str instance that has chars in it
10:21 FROGGS abraxxa: and { * } vs. { ... } is up to your taste
10:22 moritz nwc10: huh, what did I do? :-)
10:23 nwc10 moritz: answered my question about + and % in python about an hour ago
10:24 moritz ah
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom: bc08619 | usev6++ | src/core/operators.pm:
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Do not return the previous value when generator function of sequence calls 'last'
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom:
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom: fixes things like 'say 10,9,8, { diff - 1 || last } ... *'
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bc08619e1e
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 9b5d4e2 | FROGGS++ | src/core/operators.pm:
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #393 from usev6/nom
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom:
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't return previous value when generator function of sequence calls 'last'
10:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9b5d4e256a
10:30 bartolin m: say 10,9,8, { $_ - 1 || last } ... *  # s/diff/$_/ in commit message
10:30 camelia rakudo-moar af6bd0: OUTPUT«10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 1␤»
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10:37 dalek roast: 311cf9d | usev6++ | S03-sequence/basic.t:
10:37 dalek roast: Unfudge passing tests for 'sequence + last'
10:37 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/311cf9d9f1
10:45 grondilu "diff"?
10:45 grondilu oh I see the s/diff/$_/ now
10:46 abraxxa FROGGS: thanks
10:46 grondilu not that it matter but I think you can use the amend git comment to change it
10:47 grondilu s/comment/command/
10:47 abraxxa FROGGS: i guess .chars > 0 better carries the information what I tried to achieve
10:48 bartolin grondilu: that was a copy-and-pasto with github :/
10:49 grondilu still, it should be possible to edit it with git commit --amend
10:49 grondilu and the push again
10:49 grondilu s/the/then/
10:50 bartolin grondilu: I'd have to make a PR. do you think it's worth it?
10:50 grondilu probably not
10:50 bartolin I'll at least add a comment to the commit
11:02 Ven grondilu: no, if you --amend you'll need to force-push
11:03 Ven you shouldn't force push a repo so big
11:06 grondilu ok, noted
11:08 Ven m: say [].WHAT.perl
11:08 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«Array␤»
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11:26 psch \o
11:27 psch is there a reason HLL::Grammar.integer doesn't parse negative integers?
11:27 psch i've been looking at #123682, and that seems the most sensible spot to fix
11:27 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=123682
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11:27 psch m: say :10<-1>
11:27 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/HB848L3x9H␤Malformed radix number␤at /tmp/HB848L3x9H:1␤------> 3say :10<7⏏5-1>␤    expecting any of:␤        number in radix notation␤»
11:27 psch m: say :10<1*2**-64>
11:27 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/AvAC1jYzTC␤Malformed radix number␤at /tmp/AvAC1jYzTC:1␤------> 3say :10<1*2**7⏏5-64>␤    expecting any of:␤        number in radix notation␤»
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11:35 grondilu m:say :10(-1)
11:35 grondilu m: say :10(-1)
11:35 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«You have confused the number -1 with the textual representation "-1";␤if you wanted to render the number in the given base, use $number.base($radix)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/iwpn8jZGp1:1␤␤»
11:36 cdc Hello #perl6
11:36 grondilu that's quite a talkative error message (which is good)
11:37 cdc I'd like to make yada exceptions distinguishable from user exceptions, ex. X::Stub::Executed vs. X::AdHoc.
11:37 cdc I tried the following change, but it doesn't work: https://gist.github.com/ano​nymous/27da128ae72198ceb182 (warning: cargo-cult programming).
11:38 cdc Any usggestion is welcomed!
11:38 cdc *suggestion
11:38 psch cdc: Perl6/World.nqp has a method that gives you a typed exception
11:38 psch cdc: src/Perl6/World.nqp:2908
11:39 psch cdc: using that instead of building the ast yourself should work
11:39 cdc psch: thanks, I'll give it a try.
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11:48 psch m: say 0xdeadbeef * 16 ** -1
11:48 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«233495534.9375␤»
11:48 psch m: say :16<deadbeef> * 16 ** -1
11:48 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«233495534.9375␤»
11:50 nwc10 I'm curious about "Nuitka Python", which seems to be (yet another) Python re-implementation (and seemingly pretty cool): http://nuitka.net/posts/nuitka-release-0511.html
11:50 nwc10 anyone know why it's being written - just fun?
11:50 nwc10 because supporting everything from 2.6 to 3.4 seems pretty awesome
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12:08 bartolin I've created another PR for sequences (394). it would be great if someone could take a look at it, since I'm not absolutely sure about it
12:09 bartolin m: sub f (Int $n) { $n > 3 ?? "liftoff!" !! $n + 1 }; say 1, &f ... *
12:09 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Type check failed in binding $n; expected 'Int' but got 'Str'␤»
12:09 bartolin as I understand S03 that should give '1 2 3 4 liftoff!'
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12:10 psch m: 1, { $^a.WHAT.say }, ... 6
12:10 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/uPROEWWVjI␤Comma found before apparent series operator; please remove comma (or put parens␤    around the ... listop, or use 'fail' instead of ...)␤at /tmp/uPROEWWVjI:1␤------> 1, { $^a.WHAT.say },7…»
12:11 psch m: 1, { $^a.WHAT.say } ... 6
12:11 eli-se good day
12:11 psch o/ eli-se
12:11 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«(timeout)(Int)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤​(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(​Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(B​ool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bo​ol)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool…»
12:11 eli-se how does resource cleanup work in Perl 6?
12:11 eli-se e.g. closing files. is there FINALLY?
12:11 psch m: 1, 2, { $^a.WHAT.say } ... 6
12:11 psch ah meh
12:12 psch eli-se: there's LEAVE and UNDO
12:12 eli-se nice
12:12 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«(timeout)(Int)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤​(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(​Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(B​ool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bo​ol)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool)␤(Bool…»
12:12 eli-se why not refcounting like in Perl 5?
12:12 psch eli-se: i think because backends are free to do their GC stuff however they want
12:12 psch s/backends/implementations/
12:13 psch eli-se: consider that the test suite is the specification, and testing for GC behavior might not belong into the language
12:16 cdc eli-se: for MoarVM -> http://jnthn.net/papers/201​3-bs-secret-life-of-gc.pdf
12:16 eli-se psch: I mean from a design PoV, since refcounting is typically deterministic whereas tracing GCs typically aren't
12:17 psch eli-se: i don't see how that change my argument.  Perl 6 the language doesn't dictate GC behavior
12:17 eli-se I'm asking why
12:18 psch i don't know, but i think it's because the language isn't supposed to be tied to an implementation
12:19 psch which is what some of Perl 5's problems came from, i.e. "if perl parses it, it's Perl"
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12:20 cdc psch: $*W.typed_exception($/, ['X', 'Stub', 'Executed']) complains during the parse stage: "Could not locate compile-time value for symbol X::Stub::Executed"
12:20 cdc (this does not work either with ['X', 'Comp'], for instance)
12:20 cdc I don't understand why
12:20 psch eli-se: TimToady++ probably can go into more detail on the "why is GC behavior not part of the language", while jnthn++ will likely be able to tell you why moar does what it does
12:21 eli-se ok
12:21 arnsholt The problem with refcounting is that it fails horribly when there are cycles
12:22 psch cdc: can you update your gist?
12:23 arnsholt And if you mandate timely/predictable collection, you're basically requiring some kind of refcounting
12:32 chenryn joined #perl6
12:33 cdc psch: https://gist.github.com/ano​nymous/2d5160e65ef9c12a5cd2 (I wasn't able to update the previous gist)
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12:46 psch cdc: actually, that's interesting
12:46 psch cdc: we're stubbing things right at the start of CORE.setting
12:47 psch cdc: and during compilation of that, your patch builds an X::Stub::Executed for every stub it encounters
12:47 psch cdc: but the symbol doesn't exist yet, and you can't stub it either, because circularity
12:48 Akagi201 joined #perl6
12:50 psch cdc: i think it could work if you stub X::Stub::Executed in src/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp, but i'm not sure it belongs there
12:51 cdc psch: thanks for your help!
12:51 cdc psch: I should ask to moritz if it belongs there?
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12:53 moritz if what belongs where?
12:53 kjs_ joined #perl6
12:53 moritz no, it doesn't belong there
12:54 moritz you can emit a symbolic lookup
12:54 moritz and it'll exist by the time you throw such an error
12:55 cdc moritz: could you show me some examples of symbolic lookups, please?
12:56 cdc I never wrote anything in NQP before.
12:59 psch oh
13:00 psch yeah, the Actions code is wrong
13:00 psch i think :P
13:01 psch $*W.find_symbol looks during compile time, but make_yada should emit something that looks during runtime
13:01 psch cdc: ^^^
13:02 cdc psch: ok, how I can defer this action?
13:03 psch cdc: $*W.symbol_lookup, defined at Perl6/World.nqp:2666
13:03 cdc thanks, I'm looking at it
13:04 psch cdc: the bit you had before with :op<call> should take the result of symbol_lookup as argument i think
13:04 cdc ok, I give it a try
13:06 telex joined #perl6
13:10 moritz for lexicals you can also do a QAST:Var.new(:name<...>)
13:10 moritz but I fear that doesn't work with multi-joined class names
13:11 rurban joined #perl6
13:12 Ven .u
13:12 yoleaux U+0020 SPACE [Zs] ( )
13:12 yoleaux U+2007 FIGURE SPACE [Zs] ( )
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13:15 dalek rakudo/no-linenoise: f04bcb6 | hoelzro++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
13:15 dalek rakudo/no-linenoise: DON'T MERGE ME Bump NQP revision
13:15 dalek rakudo/no-linenoise: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f04bcb6ebc
13:16 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: 5cc28f9 | hoelzro++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
13:16 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: DON'T MERGE ME Bump MoarVM version
13:16 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5cc28f9b11
13:16 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: 7418f0a | hoelzro++ | / (2 files):
13:16 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: Add rudimentary tab completion
13:16 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7418f0a0ea
13:16 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: 886d00b | hoelzro++ | / (2 files):
13:16 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: Decouple completion from linenoise
13:16 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/886d00b3fa
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13:32 ibo2perl m: my $x; say $x; $x  = 1/0; say "alive and " ~ ? $x; say $x
13:32 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«(Any)␤alive and True␤Divide by zero␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:15820␤  in sub infix:<-> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5279␤  in method Str at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13115␤  in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5116␤  in sub…»
13:33 ibo2perl it is not clear to me why the ? $x evaluates to true
13:35 psch m: say ?1; say ?0
13:35 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
13:35 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
13:35 psch ibo2perl: prefix:<?> is prefix:<so> with looser precedence
13:36 psch ibo2perl: it's the opposite of prefix:<!>, like prefix:<not> for prefix:<so>
13:36 ibo2perl psch: yes, sure. But $x has 1/0 an exception
13:36 psch m: say so 1/0
13:36 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:36 psch m: say so X::DivideByZero.new
13:36 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&DivideByZero'␤  in method <anon> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:15826␤  in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2908␤  in any find_method at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:1052␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ymmgZb_AwB:1␤␤»
13:36 psch m: say so X::Numeric::DivideByZero.new
13:37 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:37 psch m: say so die "foo"
13:37 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«foo␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/XL9ibnNhSB:1␤␤»
13:37 psch m: say so fail "foo"
13:37 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: foo␤   at <unknown>:1  (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/share/perl6/run​time/CORE.setting.moarvm:throw:4294967295)␤ from src/gen/m-CORE.setting:15830  (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/share/perl​6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:sink:29)␤ from…»
13:37 psch i see
13:37 psch ibo2perl: i missed that, sorry
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13:38 ibo2perl psch: np, may be it is like schrödingers cat. without looking you dont know whether it's alive or not
13:40 psch ibo2perl: Mu.Bool calls self.defined, and Exceptions are marked as handled with a call to defined
13:40 psch ibo2perl: it's definitely surprising though, and might want some kind of rethinking
13:40 psch maybe Exception.Bool shouldn't call defined, but throw again, i'm not sure
13:41 psch actually, no, that'd would likely be horrible
13:46 ibo2perl joined #perl6
13:46 ibo2perl m: say (1/0).WHAT
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
13:47 ibo2perl supporting my like schrödingers cat theory
13:47 psch schrödinger's Rat, surely :)
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14:41 masak m: say 1/0 > 5
14:41 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:41 masak m: say 1/0 < 5
14:41 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«False␤»
14:41 masak m: say 1/0 == Inf
14:41 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:42 masak m: say Inf + 7 == Inf
14:42 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:46 Akagi201 joined #perl6
14:47 hoelzro o/ #perl6
14:48 masak \o
14:52 Tux__ m: sub foo (Any :$x){$x.WHAT.say;if ($x.WHAT eq "Array"){my@x=$x;@x[0].WHAT.say;}};foo(x=>[[1,2][3,4]]);
14:52 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/pIvmvXOCKv␤Missing block␤at /tmp/pIvmvXOCKv:1␤------> 3HAT eq "Array"){my@x=$x;@x[0].WHAT.say;}7⏏5};foo(x=>[[1,2][3,4]]);␤    expecting any of:␤        parameterized block␤»
14:53 masak |Tux|: .WHAT gives back a type object
14:53 masak dunno if type objects enjoy being string-comapred
14:53 |Tux| I know most of you would not use parens there
14:53 masak I don't care so much about that
14:53 masak that's just superstitious, it's up to you ;)
14:53 |Tux| masak: HAT vs WHAT
14:53 hoelzro one of the next steps for my tab completion branch is going to be how Linenoise.pm is to be distributed; I was thinking that it belongs out of core, but in Star
14:53 hoelzro any thoughts on that?
14:54 masak |Tux|: that's just cutoff
14:54 |Tux| ah, so I am being misguided there. will havbe to dig deeper
14:55 |Tux| Chasing (and thus simplifying) this message: "Cannot look up attributes in a type object"
14:56 |Tux| masak, what is a "better" way to check WHAT? WHICH?
14:56 masak m: my @a; say @a.WHAT === Array
14:56 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:56 |Tux| of course!
14:56 masak m: my @a; say @a ~~ Array
14:56 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:57 * |Tux| still has to get used to ===
14:57 masak both are better, IMO
14:57 masak depends if you tolerate subtypes of Array
14:57 masak ~~ does
14:57 |Tux| much better now. thanks (again)
14:58 masak my pleasure :)
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15:41 TimToady .bothealthymeal
15:42 * moritz wonders whether that begins with 'bot' or 'both' :-)
15:43 Ven .botsnack
15:43 yoleaux :D
15:43 Ven he prefers that :p
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15:54 raydiak g'mornin #perl6
15:55 masak g'raydiak, mornin
15:55 TimToady o/
15:55 Woodi joined #perl6
15:57 TimToady .oO(G'raydiak: fantasy town in Alaska that never has good weather.)
15:57 p6weekly .botsnack
15:57 yoleaux :D
15:57 yoleaux 21 Mar 2015 21:17Z <raiph> p6weekly: Tux++ RFC7111 finished http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2015-03-20#i_10312704
15:58 moritz also, I updated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl_6
15:58 |Tux| :)
16:00 * raydiak looks out the window and sees...dreary weather
16:00 moritz (removed some out-of-date mentions of parrot, and made it clearer which compilers aren't actively developed anymore)
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16:00 masak moritz++
16:00 masak decommute &
16:01 moritz also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakudo_Perl_6
16:01 timotimo moritz: you left "The Synopses (The official language specification)." intact?
16:02 moritz timotimo: there's still lots to clean up
16:02 timotimo fair enough :)
16:05 * jnthn yawns
16:05 moritz 17:05: jnthn slowly stands up, makes his morning coffee :-)
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16:07 iv Hm, should the release link on the wikipedia page link to http://rakudo.org/2015/03/21/anno​unce-rakudo-star-release-2015-03/ instead of the tar.gz listing?
16:08 jnthn moritz: This is yawn from having completed the day's work :)
16:08 * TimToady yawns thinking about about starting the day's work...
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16:33 timotimo hmm
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16:39 |Tux| does "given" when still exist in perl6 (it cannot be found on http://doc.perl6.org) or does a new syntax exist for swutch (which also shows no hits)
16:39 |Tux| switch
16:40 Ven joined #perl6
16:40 masak |Tux|: heh.
16:40 molaf joined #perl6
16:40 masak |Tux|: given/when comes from Perl 6 ;)
16:40 masak m: given 42 { when Int { say "it's an Int! yaaay!" } }
16:40 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«it's an Int! yaaay!␤»
16:40 |Tux| but you can change your minds! it happened before :P
16:41 masak troo.
16:41 masak in Perl 6, given/when doesn't suck, because smartmatching doesn't suck, because Perl 6 has types in a much deeper way than Perl 5.
16:41 |Tux| so the "bug" is that I cannot use "given" in the search box on doc.perl6.org
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16:41 masak yeah.
16:45 |Tux| does «when Routine» also match Sub ?
16:45 |Tux| yes, I can try
16:46 |Tux| yes it does
16:46 Ulti given '1.0' { when 1 {say "smart match";}; when 1.0 {say "doesn't suck";} }
16:46 yoleaux 03:02Z <japhb> Ulti: OK, I replied to your perl6-bench pull request.
16:46 Ulti m: given '1.0' { when 1 {say "smart match";}; when 1.0 {say "doesn't suck";} }
16:46 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«smart match␤»
16:46 Ulti even
16:47 * Ven would expect none to match, probably
16:47 Ven it does try to be smart, tho..
16:48 TimToady smartmatching is all about dwimmery, and trying to put most of the dwimmery in one spot
16:48 timotimo m: given '1.0' { when 1 {say "smart match"; proceed;}; when 1.0 {say "doesn't suck";} }
16:48 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«smart match␤doesn't suck␤»
16:48 TimToady there you go
16:49 timotimo the type of matcher deciding how a match should be done makes a whole lot of sense to me in understanding how things go in smart matching
16:49 Ulti oh so given has break by default I didn't even realise that :S
16:50 TimToady more than that, relying primarily on the one type means such switches are optimizable
16:50 TimToady why we had to break the symmetrical smartmatch good and hard
16:50 Ulti wait so why does that work and my example a few days ago didnt work
16:50 TimToady link?
16:50 Ulti using first-index
16:52 retupmoca timotimo: can you look at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2015-03-23#i_10323954 ? Let me know if it looks like it makes sense or if it isn't worth it?
16:53 retupmoca jnthn: or you; since you're on windows?
16:53 Ulti m: given 1.0 { when 1 {say "smart match"; proceed;}; when '1.0' {say "doesn't suck";} }
16:53 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«smart match␤»
16:53 Ulti there we go
16:54 Ulti it's that the match isn't commutative
16:54 Ulti so its even less predictable
16:54 TimToady wrong
16:54 Ulti yeah I know why
16:54 TimToady it's more predictable
16:54 Ulti its that it isnt even doing what I think
16:54 fhelmberger_ joined #perl6
16:55 TimToady it's asking a string whether it matches something that can be coerced to a string
16:55 TimToady but string coercion of a Rat doesn't not automatically add .0
16:55 masak Henrik van Oers going "What part of 'private' did you mis[s]?" on p6u felt like a very non-#perl6 way to hit someone over the head with new juicy knowledge. :)
16:55 Ulti TimToady which is fine because I could have written an arbitrary number of .0000s
16:56 masak I like how most of #perl6's attitude is more "you're one of today's lucky 10,000" -- https://xkcd.com/1053/
16:56 Ulti the issue is I hadn't properly learnt smart match
16:56 timotimo masak: i thought these mails were a bit unfriendly in their tone
16:57 masak m: given '1.0' { say "smart match" when 1; say "doesn't suck" when 1.0 } # also works, because (in Perl 6) statement_mod when doesn't break/succeed
16:57 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«smart match␤doesn't suck␤»
16:58 masak timotimo: oh, so it wasn't just me
16:58 masak timotimo: I was wondering whether to call it out, but I didn't want to come across as hyper-sensitive
16:59 Ulti masak that would have held if I hadn't turned 30 ;___; or is the age of Perl6 mastery about 70
16:59 masak Ulti: well, Perl 6 *is* meant to be a last language...
17:00 Ulti I doubt any of you have used my slang so you don't know all of Perl 6 :P
17:00 Ulti which is going to be a fun future
17:01 Ulti I can just see Perl 6 running into the same sorts of problems human languages have
17:01 Ulti I guess the spec is like a dictionary
17:01 masak Ulti: back in 2010, I tweeted about being a Perl 6 user for five years already. TimToady tweeted back, saying he'd been using Perl 6 for twice as long. :P
17:01 Ulti anything else is just pidgin perl 6
17:02 masak &
17:02 vendethiel joined #perl6
17:03 Ulti I've been doing a bit of Perl 6 since the first R* so 5-6 years?
17:03 Ulti the problem is it's easy to go wide in Perl 6 rather than deep in your learning
17:04 Ulti unless you are actually helping with the implementation I guess
17:05 |Tux| FROGGS, HELP! https://gist.github.com/Tux/90b22dd241ab896cc392
17:05 TimToady we need both approaches
17:06 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
17:06 jdv79 isn't that called a "T shaped dev" or something these days?
17:07 * TimToady thinks that leaves out a lot of hypotenuses
17:09 TimToady ▼ is more like
17:09 TimToady we also need people who go half-down and half-wide :)
17:09 TimToady such as Yours Truly
17:13 |Tux| FROGGS, ignore. I'll use parens on given
17:14 FROGGS |Tux|: I'll look into it in a few hou... okay
17:14 |Tux| it is your last reverted change (reserved words like if, sub, method, and given)
17:15 |Tux| somehow for does not need the parens
17:15 FROGGS gtg now, might look into it later
17:15 |Tux| thanks in advance
17:15 sqirrel_ joined #perl6
17:18 TimToady m: say .so ?? 「\o/」 !! 「/o\」 for <1/3> ~~ Rat, <+1-2i> ~~ Complex
17:18 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«\o/␤/o\␤»
17:20 TimToady m: my $state = 「\o/」; $state .= flip for (^10).pick; say $state;
17:20 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«/o\␤»
17:20 fhelmberger joined #perl6
17:21 TimToady m: my $state = 「\o/」; $state .= flip xx 10.rand; say $state;
17:21 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method call node requires at least one child␤»
17:21 TimToady m: my $state = 「\o/」; $state.=flip xx 10.rand; say $state;
17:21 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«/o\␤»
17:21 TimToady m: my $state = 「\o/」; $state.=flip xx 10.rand; say $state;
17:21 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«\o/␤»
17:24 mr-foobar joined #perl6
17:25 iv Hm, why doesn't `42.WHAT` print anything on the REPL, unlike `say 42.WHAT`?
17:25 vendethiel joined #perl6
17:27 iv Where `` are not part of the code… :P
17:27 TimToady probably trying not to report a result from 'my $x;' and such
17:29 iv Ah, okay.
17:29 iv Maybe un-perlish to report a result (Any) from 'my $x'?
17:34 iv Asking because my expectation for a REPL is that it tries to print whatever I give it
17:34 iv learned from Other Languages
17:35 eli-se joined #perl6
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17:36 timotimo be cautious, our REPL is very bad at a few things, especially involving the := operator :(
17:39 eli-se hola
17:39 eli-se cola
17:39 timotimo çola?
17:40 eli-se Cool
17:40 |Tux| m: sub foo(Any :$in){$in.list[0] ~="Boo";};my Str $s="";$s.say;foo(in=>\$s);$s.say;
17:40 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«␤Boo␤»
17:40 |Tux| NICE!
17:40 |Tux| is this to stay? can I rely on that?
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17:44 timotimo m: sub foo(Any :$in is rw) { $in ~= "Boo";}; my Str $s = ""; $s.say; foo(in => $s); $s.say;
17:44 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/V5OKvXpRRe␤Cannot use 'is rw' on an optional parameter␤at /tmp/V5OKvXpRRe:1␤------> ␤»
17:45 timotimo ah, that's why you did that
17:45 |Tux| not really :)
17:47 timotimo no?
17:47 |Tux| have a sec. will give you a link in a few secs
17:47 TimToady m: sub foo(Any :$in! is rw) { $in ~= "Boo";}; my Str $s = ""; $s.say; foo(in => $s); $s.say;
17:47 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«␤Boo␤»
17:47 timotimo ah, much cleaner
17:49 |Tux| https://github.com/Tux/CSV/​blob/master/test-t.pl#L1194
17:52 FROGGS joined #perl6
17:54 timotimo that code doesn't speak for itself, at least not to me
17:55 |Tux| in => "file.csv" should open that file and parse the data in it, in => \"some data" should parse the string itself
17:55 |Tux| in => $io parses from an already opened IO etc etc
17:56 timotimo yeah
17:56 timotimo i got that much
17:57 timotimo why would you rely on mutating arguments passed in via named parameters for that?
17:57 TimToady that's P5-think fighting P6-think, I think; why not just multi-dispatch to IO vs Str?
17:57 |Tux| Ah, that comes inportant for out
17:58 |Tux| TimToady, because that would explode
17:58 |Tux| out => "file.csv" write data to the file, out => \$s appends data to the string
17:59 |Tux| TimToady, in can alse be Array, in which case it can be an Array of arrays or an array of hashes
17:59 |Tux| used for out
17:59 TimToady so why not out => "file.csv".IO vs out => $s vs out => @array
18:00 TimToady IO is short for a reason
18:00 |Tux| I will ponder on that. Thanks
18:00 TimToady Capture is long for a similar reason :)
18:01 timotimo retupmoca: bundling the .dll files in the git repository feels a bit icky to me; i'd prefer not having such binary files in there. on the other hand, making dll files easily attainable during the build phase of gtk::simple would be nice to have for windows users
18:01 |Tux| out => $s ... can that be said to *append* instead of just out?
18:01 timotimo we can re-host the dll files on www.p6c.org and just download them via curl or HTTP::Client or what it's called
18:02 |Tux| or just have Any :$out is rw (which doesn't works as just shown)
18:03 timotimo Any :$out! is rw does work
18:03 timotimo TimToady showed a working example of that a few lines above
18:03 |Tux| but out is optional (defaults to $*OUT)
18:03 timotimo oh
18:04 timotimo when you said "multi dispatch would explode" you meant a combinatoric explosion?
18:04 |Tux| yes
18:06 timotimo you don't have to have a candidate for every single combination, though
18:06 TimToady m: sub foo(\x) { say x.WHAT }; foo $_; foo VAR($_)
18:06 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«Nil␤(Scalar)␤»
18:06 TimToady there's another approach
18:06 timotimo ah, pass in the VAR of something if you want it to be changed
18:07 TimToady out => VAR($foo) is even kinda self-documenting
18:07 timotimo that's very close to what tux was doing with the $out.list[0] ~= ... trick
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18:07 |Tux| yes, but that puts the burdon on the caller instead of on me :)
18:08 TimToady you were already putting the burden there with \
18:08 timotimo imagine the fun when you pass in a variable that has a where clause attached to its type %)
18:08 |Tux| and you are right: I still have to make the gap wider between perl5 think and perl6 think
18:10 |Tux| but I'm just doing perl6 for 50 days or so and I think I got way further than imagined at the start
18:11 timotimo that's good to hear :)
18:12 |Tux| anyway, sorry to have stolen some time again. Now off to play badminton
18:13 avuserow moritz: in Python, what you're "supposed" to do rather than `("a %d" + "b %d") % (1,2)` is use `"a %d" "b %d" % (1, 2)` (that is, no operator between string literals makes them concat with higher precedence, assuming you are only dealing with literals)
18:14 * avuserow is glad that Perl 6 has no such implicit "operator"
18:14 TimToady it's a low-leverage feature with many negative consequences
18:15 TimToady funny how languages cargo-cult these low-leverage features from other languages. concat with + also comes to mind
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18:20 masak I don't think there's a good understanding of the scope of the negative consequences most of the time.
18:26 eli-se Woo, fixed six issues in a single commit.
18:26 masak ok, I wrote an answer to the "Object Introspection" thread. I am literally unable to judge whether it'd be a net good to post it.
18:26 masak therefore I'm posting it here first for general comment. https://gist.githubusercontent.com/masa​k/a788a742b70c47e46565/raw/7f10528f4c52​ab2c0cf54b9482eab22a88feb542/reply.txt
18:27 masak eli-se: o.O
18:27 masak eli-se: you should come work on the RT queue :>
18:27 eli-se what is the RT queue?
18:27 masak all the rakudobugs.
18:27 eli-se Are retweets processed to slowly?
18:27 eli-se Oh, I see.
18:27 eli-se I'm bad at C.
18:28 masak ok, I'm going for dinner now. feel free to leave comments here or on the gist. https://gist.github.com/masak/a788a742b70c47e46565
18:28 eli-se I'll probably introduce buffer overflows and memory leaks.
18:28 masak eli-se: Rakudog is mostly Perl 6, actually.
18:28 masak Rakudo*
18:28 masak &
18:28 eli-se oooot
18:30 arnsholt Rakudog =D
18:30 colomon joined #perl6
18:31 tadzik <3
18:31 arnsholt eli-se: There used to be a bit more C for compiler hackery, but even then you had to dig pretty deep before you ran into that
18:32 arnsholt Heck, on the JVM backend there's no C
18:32 [Coke] masak: +1; last paragraph is perhaps slightly too direct. Perhaps instead ask him to keep it in mind when he is representing the community.
18:32 arnsholt You should probably know a decent amount of C if you're gonna work on the NativeCall bits, even on JVM, but outside of that there's no C
18:33 mj41 timotimo lizmat: hi. perl6-star 2015.03 docker image available  https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/mj41/perl6-star/
18:33 mj41 ~ $ docker run -i -t --rm --name my-perl6-star-2015.03 mj41/perl6-star:2015.03 perl6 -e'say "{$*PERL.compiler.gist} on {$*VM.gist} for {$*DISTRO.gist}"'
18:33 mj41 rakudo (2015.3) on moar (2015.3) for fedora (21.Twenty.One)
18:33 mj41 ~ $
18:33 _edwin joined #perl6
18:35 eli-se Alright, time to start working on my JIT compiler.
18:38 _edwin hello perl6 hackers! I have a problem with Rakudo Star 2015.2 on Windows: "AltGr" combinations on my (German) keyboard are not working in the REPL. Is this a known problem?
18:40 vendethiel _edwin: accents refusing to print is a known problem :)
18:43 _edwin vendethiel, typing the accents at least works for me, I have the more basic problem that I cannot type {, [, etc. in the REPL :/
18:43 jdv79 nine_: around?  Inline::Perl6 failed to build for e.
18:43 vendethiel ah yes, it was brackets not accents
18:43 jdv79 *me
18:43 vendethiel _edwin: can you type accents and submit, tho?
18:43 vendethiel it should be crashing
18:44 _edwin I can type 'say "á"' for example, but executing it crashes with "Malformed UTF-8"
18:45 vendethiel okay, so that's the known bug indeed.
18:46 _edwin but the AltGr + * combinations are just completely dead, they do not even produce a wrong character
18:46 vendethiel yep :)
18:49 kjs_ joined #perl6
18:49 _edwin does it make sense to submit this problem somewhere -- I did'nt find it in rt.perl.org or the rakudo/star github issues
18:57 vendethiel i believe it's in RT
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19:59 lizmat mj41: I believe timotimo will be doing the P6W this week
19:59 lizmat mj41: thanks for reminding nonetheless  :-)
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20:04 hoelzro mj41: I didn't know someone else had made a docker image for R*
20:06 larion joined #perl6
20:07 dalek star: 3df9a6f | FROGGS++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
20:07 dalek star: install panda's state and projects list
20:07 dalek star:
20:07 dalek star: We do that so one can query what is installed by doing: panda --installed list
20:07 dalek star: This also prevents panda to refetch and rebuild already installed stuff, which
20:07 dalek star: can even break because the module in the ecosystem might already have changed,
20:07 dalek star: triggered by a rakudo compiler change.
20:07 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/3df9a6fc44
20:07 dalek star: da6cb95 | FROGGS++ | tools/build/bin-install.pl:
20:07 dalek star: create windows .bat files for each script in bin/
20:07 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/da6cb959ac
20:08 nine_ jdv79: I'm here
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20:10 mj41 hoelzro: yes, I saw you image, but I prefer automated build
20:10 hoelzro mj41: I changed mine to an automated build recently
20:10 hoelzro cut down on my headaches a bit =)
20:11 mj41 :-) ... any chance to merge them?
20:12 jdv79 nine_: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/470160
20:13 hoelzro mj41: sure! afaict, they're the same instead of distribution
20:13 hoelzro your README is much better, though!
20:13 nine_ jdv79: is your perl compiled with multiplicity?
20:13 mj41 or maybe it's time to  create official one under https://github.com/perl6
20:14 nine_ jdv79: oh, I just noticed that I did fix building on a perl without multiplicity, but have not yet done a release containing the fix.
20:14 hoelzro mj41: good idea
20:14 TimToady "module in the ecosystem might already have changed" seems to violate the immutability principle of official modules, though I suppose what's really going on is loose versioning
20:14 jdv79 usemultiplicity=undef - i guess not
20:14 hoelzro I'm not sure where packaging stuff is stored atm
20:14 hoelzro probably in rakudo/star?
20:14 mj41 hoelzro: btw you are on collaborators list from the start https://github.com/mj41/docker-p​erl6-star/settings/collaboration
20:15 jdv79 i just installed the way the Inline::Perl5 docs said
20:15 hoelzro oh, cool
20:15 kjs_ joined #perl6
20:15 jdv79 perlbrew install 5.20.2 -Duseshrplib
20:16 TimToady and, of course, immutable modules will depend somewhat on a stable VM, which we don't quite have yet
20:16 hoelzro mj41: we should create an official perl6/rakudo repo on Docker hub, and push images there
20:16 mj41 hoelzro: there is a issue with automated build ... old images (tags) are rebuilded every time I add new tag :-(
20:17 hoelzro I see
20:17 jdv79 oops - i could read a few lines farther - i'll try that.  thanks nine_.
20:17 hoelzro I just have the Dockerfile, update it post-release, and docker build
20:19 vendethiel .u star
20:19 yoleaux U+0001 START OF HEADING [Cc] (␁)
20:19 yoleaux U+0002 START OF TEXT [Cc] (␂)
20:19 yoleaux U+0086 START OF SELECTED AREA [Cc] (<control>)
20:19 mj41 hobbs: our target should be official repo https://docs.docker.com/docker-hub/official_repos/
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20:19 hoelzro heh, I was just looking at that =)
20:19 mj41 s/hobbs/hoelzro/
20:22 vendethiel .u crying cat
20:22 yoleaux U+1F63F CRYING CAT FACE [So] (😿)
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20:28 mj41 hoelzro: maybe workaround is to use separate directory/dockerfile for each version/tag? https://github.com/docker-library/postgres
20:29 larion joined #perl6
20:29 hoelzro ah, interesting
20:29 hoelzro mj41: which image should we use as the base?
20:30 mj41 hoelzro: not sure, I prefer Fedora :-)
20:30 hoelzro I figured ;)
20:30 FROGGS _edwin: I can confirm that AltGr+[ is a noop :o(
20:30 hoelzro I picked Ubuntu because it seems to be pretty standard for Docker images
20:33 dalek doc: 87bdef4 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Pair.pod:
20:33 dalek doc: Pair.antipair
20:33 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/87bdef42a0
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6: 8149f4d | (Stefan Seifert)++ | Perl6.xs:
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6: Be compatible with rakudo 2015.03
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6:
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6: Rakudo installs in install/share instead of install/languages since
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6: commit 7920c16b8d81f0feaf16ed5ce9620c26ca67e63e
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6: Date:   Mon Mar 16 08:44:19 2015 +0100
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl6/commit/8149f4df69
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6: 0d16f8e | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (2 files):
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6: Version 0.04
20:34 dalek Inline-Perl6: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl6/commit/0d16f8e5a2
20:35 nine_ jdv79: I just uploaded Inline::Perl6 version 0.04. This contains the fix for perl without multiplicity and for compatibility with Rakduo 2015.03
20:35 jdv79 cool, i'll try it in a bit.
20:36 moritz nine_++
20:38 moritz TimToady: I can't find any description in the design docs about what .antipairs is supposed to do. The only hint seems to be in the section about invert: "Produces a backmapping of values to keys, but unlike C<.antipairs>, expands list values
20:38 moritz into multiple pairs."
20:38 moritz but that seems pretty obscure to me
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20:39 mj41 hoelzro: I'm not familiar with Ubuntu, so feel free to switch Dockerfile in 'develop' branch to Ubuntu/Debian if you think it's good idea :-)
20:40 hoelzro ok
20:41 hoelzro mj41: do you mind if I copy your README for the docker repo on GH?
20:41 jdv79 nine_: seems good to go
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20:43 nine_ jdv79: yeah :)
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20:46 mj41 hoelzro: IMHO it's going to mystify users. I prefer to start new GitHub repo. We can transfer it under perl6 project/namespace later.
20:46 hoelzro mj41: I'll create a new GH repo later tonight
20:48 mj41 hoelzro: ok, thx, good luck. I should get some sleep. See you/backlog tomorrow.
20:49 hoelzro mj41: thanks, good night!
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20:53 FROGGS rakudo star 2015.03 for windows: http://rakudo.org/downloads/star/
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20:54 masak [Coke]: thank you. exactly the kind of -- literally -- moderation I was looking for.
20:54 masak [Coke]: is this last paragraph better? https://gist.github.com/masak/a788a742b70c47e46565
20:57 eli-se wooo my JIT compiler works!
20:58 nwc10 FROGGS++
20:58 vendethiel FROGGS++!
20:58 vendethiel eli-se: gg!
20:58 nine_ Ok, first Ok, first attempt to install Ubuntu in a VM failed...
20:58 jdv79 nine_: so i have 5.20.1 without multiplcity and your 0.04 seems to work.  but i just installed 5.20.2 with multiplicity and your 0.04 seems to not:  http://paste.scsys.co.uk/470161
20:59 nine_ jdv79: did you install Inline::Perl5 for this new perl with multiplicity? You have to use the same perl for both Inline::Perl5 and Inline::Perl6
21:00 jdv79 different perls
21:00 jdv79 that's interesting
21:01 jdv79 i didn't see that in the docs but i probably missed it
21:01 nine_ jdv79: it's probably missing in the docs :/
21:03 dalek Inline-Perl6: d31cf6c | (Stefan Seifert)++ | lib/Inline/Perl6.pm:
21:03 dalek Inline-Perl6: Document the need for using the same perl for Inline::Perl5 and 6
21:03 dalek Inline-Perl6: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl6/commit/d31cf6cc1c
21:03 nine_ jdv79: corrected that
21:05 jdv79 thanks!  rebuilding rakudo takes a long time for me so i'll stick with the older p5 for now.
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21:06 nine_ jdv79: you don't have to re-install rakudo when switching perl 5 versions. Rakudo needs perl 5 only during the build. But you have to re-install Inline::Perl5.
21:07 jdv79 oh, duh.  that makes more sense.
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21:11 eli-se vendethiel: https://github.com/mill-lang/mill/bl​ob/feature/mill/jit/mill/src/jit.hpp :D
21:11 jdv79 and that worked as advertised.  very nice:)
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21:18 [Coke] masak: thanks, that seems nicer.
21:19 * masak goes ahead and posts
21:20 masak [Coke]++ # feedback
21:20 PerlJam masak++
21:20 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 49ba47c | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
21:20 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
21:20 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/49ba47c77a
21:20 dalek perl6-roast-data: 46202f5 | coke++ | / (9 files):
21:20 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
21:20 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/46202f5678
21:23 * [Coke] heads hoe
21:23 [Coke] *home
21:23 Rounin joined #perl6
21:24 vendethiel eli-se: I read it :P
21:24 eli-se woot
21:25 anaeem1 joined #perl6
21:27 retupmoca http://modules.perl6.org/ looks a little sparse from here
21:27 timotimo so it does :\
21:27 ggoebel joined #perl6
21:36 pmichaud re  star issue #43....   if I precompile a module using a non-installed copy of rakudo-m, can I still use the precompiled module once rakudo-m has been installed?
21:38 lolisa joined #perl6
21:39 kjs_ joined #perl6
21:40 [ptc] masak++ # p6u post
21:43 jschulz joined #perl6
21:43 * masak puts on a weary smile
21:44 masak I had a very good day teaching JavaScript today, by the way.
21:44 masak my best kind of JavaScript class is the kind that goes "oh dear, this language is *weird*!" with me
21:44 eli-se A day involving JavaScript is never a good day.
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: 5f21112 | paultcochrane++ | t/004-website-basic.t:
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: Correct spelling of "receiver"
21:45 dalek perl6-examples:
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: (duh)
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/5f2111288c
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: 0e0a49e | paultcochrane++ | lib/Pod/Htmlify.pm6:
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: Add base-dir argument to files-in-category()
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/0e0a49e0b2
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: ce1370c | paultcochrane++ | / (3 files):
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: Convert write-example-files() into a method
21:45 dalek perl6-examples:
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: This took a lot of work just to get the code tested.  It seems I'd written
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: legacy code...  *sigh*  Nevertheless, it's now tested, which means it can be
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: more safely refactored into something better.
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/ce1370c843
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: bd1b98b | paultcochrane++ | t/004-website-basic.t:
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: Extract repeated examples mock data into single variable
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/bd1b98baee
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: 5d2b38c | paultcochrane++ | / (2 files):
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: Convert collect-example-metadata into a method
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/5d2b38cd9a
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: 98ff1a8 | paultcochrane++ | / (2 files):
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: Use $categories attr in collect-example-metadata
21:45 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/98ff1a8ea2
21:45 masak eli-se: I couldn't agree less. but you're entitled to feel that way.
21:48 masak quiz: anyone ever used `$.new` in a method? would you consider it a good idea? (as opposed to doing `CurrentClass.new`)
21:50 pmichaud masak: I think I would prefer 'self.new' to '$.new'
21:50 eli-se I prefer not to confuse types and values of types.
21:50 masak pmichaud: fair point.
21:50 pmichaud well, except that CurrentClass and  self.WHAT might not be exactly the same.
21:50 vendethiel I'd definitely use self.new :-)
21:51 vendethiel but that'd mean I'd "new" a subclass if I'm really inside a subclass, right?
21:51 eli-se $?CLASS.new
21:51 pmichaud to me, self.new means "make a new instance of whatever type I am"
21:51 woolfy joined #perl6
21:51 pmichaud and that's what "$.new" would mean.
21:51 woolfy left #perl6
21:51 masak yeah.
21:52 masak `$.` basically means `self.`, modulo itemization
21:52 pmichaud and as far as "confusing types and values of types".... that's not exactly what is happening here.  :)
21:52 pmichaud $?CLASS just happens to be an undefined value of the type.
21:53 pmichaud it's not the "type"
21:57 masak conclusion so far: some things are better written `$.foo`, and some things `self.foo`, and I'm not really sure what the rule is :)
21:57 masak value-y things clearly look better as `$.foo`
21:57 masak things that do things clearly look better as `self.foo` (like .new and .clone)
21:58 pmichaud I tend to think of $.foo as being primarily for accessors.
21:58 masak right.
21:58 pmichaud I haven't wrapped my head around the idea of using it for general method calls.  It's obviously okay to do it that way... but it still looks like an accessor to me
21:58 masak I think I'm basically using it for accessors.
21:58 masak and slowly coming to terms with it not being all that appropriate/intuitive for other things :)
21:59 pmichaud well, at one time there was a long design discussion about what   ".methodcall"  (no invocant) should mean/do.
21:59 pmichaud i.e., should it default to "self.methodcall" or should it be "$_.methodcall".
22:00 pmichaud it was finally decided to go to "self.methodcall", and there was also "$.methodcall" as an option.
22:00 masak that's one of the oldest discussions I remember. must've been around 2005.
22:01 pmichaud in the case of "$.new", "self.new", "CurrentClass.new", and "$?CLASS.new",  I tend to think of them as actually doing different things.
22:01 pmichaud well, "$.new" and "self.new" are equivalent.
22:01 masak my http://strangelyconsistent.org/b​log/the-dot-is-the-cutest-sigil is basically a celebration of the distinction we ended up with between `self` and `$_`
22:02 pmichaud some people would prefer to think of  "self.new" as being more along the lines of "self.WHAT.new" (ensuring that .new is being handled by the type instance), but I think "self.new" is sufficient.
22:02 lizmat MMD is your friend if you really want to distinguish between .new on a type object or an instantiation  :-)
22:02 masak "keeping $_ and self separate from each other in Perl 6 was a really good idea"
22:03 pmichaud I figure that anyone choosing between  "self.new",  "CurrentClass.new", and "$?CLASS.new"  ought to be sure they realize how these can be subtly different.  :)
22:03 lizmat m: my %h := Hash[].new   # should this fail?  if so, we need to handle the LTAness of the error message
22:03 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Too few positionals passed; expected at least 3 arguments but got only 2␤»
22:04 jdv79 m: my @a = 1; for @a -> $a is rw { $a := 2; } # that error isn't clear as to why; at least to me
22:04 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/QHdJhkWUo0␤Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side␤at /tmp/QHdJhkWUo0:1␤------> 3my @a = 1; for @a -> $a is rw { $a := 27⏏5; } # that error isn't clear as to why; ␤»
22:05 pmichaud jdv79: good point... I don't know if the "error" here is because it's disallowed in Perl 6 or because Rakudo doesn't know how to do it yet.
22:05 pmichaud I suspect the error message should read "We don't know how to do this yet."
22:06 lizmat m: Hash[]   # shorter way for same error
22:06 camelia rakudo-moar 9b5d4e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Too few positionals passed; expected at least 3 arguments but got only 2␤»
22:06 jdv79 is that a ticketable thing? or just ignore it for now?
22:06 dalek star: 4fb39e4 | FROGGS++ | tools/star/windows-msi.pod:
22:06 dalek star: add guide for MSI package creation
22:06 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/4fb39e444d
22:06 lizmat I assume, for simplicity sake, that Hash[] should be the same as Hash[Str] aka Hash
22:06 pmichaud jdv79: it's ticketable.
22:06 jdv79 ok, thanks
22:07 FROGGS please, review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/blob​/master/tools/star/windows-msi.pod
22:07 pmichaud FROGGS: reading
22:08 retupmoca FROGGS: I have strawberry perl already installed; is that fine?
22:08 FROGGS .tell azawawi https://github.com/rakudo/star/blob​/master/tools/star/windows-msi.pod
22:08 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to azawawi.
22:09 FROGGS retupmoca: I think were issues with strawberry, at least once there were IIRC
22:09 retupmoca ah
22:09 retupmoca I shall have to test later
22:10 pmichaud FROGGS: that's interesting, I used to do all of my .msi releases using Strawberry Perl
22:10 FROGGS ahh, hmmmm
22:10 pmichaud since I didn't have MS Visual C++
22:10 pmichaud and I also wanted some potential compatibility with Strawberry
22:11 FROGGS then my brane tricks me :o)
22:12 DrForr Just a brief doucmentation note - I don't see a .pod on doc.perl6.org where looping constructs are mentioned explicitly. (They're used in sample source)
22:12 virtualsue joined #perl6
22:12 pmichaud FROGGS:  the guide looks really good to me.  I suspect someone going through the document will find a couple of things overlooked, but it has all of the pieces I can remember.
22:14 FROGGS cool
22:14 FROGGS yes, I also suspect that someone trying it will see glitches
22:15 FROGGS gnight #perl6
22:18 work_op joined #perl6
22:18 ingy joined #perl6
22:23 pmichaud I'm also afk... be back tomorrow
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: a57affe | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't curry if there's nothing to curry
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: This fixes the LTA error on e.g. Hash[]:
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom:  Too few positionals passed; expected at least 3 arguments but got only 2
22:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a57affe8c2
22:33 Woodi joined #perl6
22:42 skids joined #perl6
22:44 Woodi joined #perl6
22:48 TimToady moritz: see Pair.antipair vs Pair.invert
22:49 TimToady and note that the antipair definition contains no hyper
22:53 TimToady Oh, nevermind, you already found it
22:53 * TimToady slinks back to the log
23:03 larion joined #perl6
23:07 hitchens joined #perl6
23:12 xprime joined #perl6
23:13 dalek specs: c340ab6 | TimToady++ | S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
23:13 dalek specs: document Hash.antipairs for moritz++
23:13 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/c340ab68ec
23:17 rjbs Woah.
23:17 japhb .ask jnthn How scalable are supplies, in terms of sheer volume of Supplies and taps that I can have active before performance falls over or RAM gets prohibitive?  My use case is an entity-relationship model for which I'm considering having an "updates" supply on every Entity and Relation, tapped by all clients who care about those nodes.  At least thousands x dozens.
23:17 yoleaux 08:06Z <nine_> japhb: Cannot repor using the same perl and rakudo version. Will get me an Ubuntu 14.04 LTS VM and try it there.
23:17 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
23:17 rjbs I typed "s" at the REPL and it kept waiting for more input.
23:17 rjbs What happened?
23:17 japhb nine_: Dangit.
23:22 TimToady rjbs: given my fan sped up when I did that, I'll bet it's infinitely looping somehow
23:23 TimToady does if you feed a newline to perl6 -e too
23:23 TimToady well "s\n"
23:23 TimToady same for m
23:24 rjbs My work here is done!
23:24 rjbs (I tried things like a few /'s on subsequent lines, but only ^C seemed to help.)
23:25 * TimToady guesses there's a problem in <.qok>
23:25 TimToady or triggered by .qok
23:26 rjbs Oh, now *that's* a useful thing to find: http://doc.perl6.org/images​/type-graph-Associative.png
23:26 japhb rjbs: Available in SVG as well.
23:26 rjbs Yeah, but I couldn't link to that as well, so I chose the inferior png. :)
23:26 japhb Should just be s/png/svg/
23:26 japhb Yeah, WFM
23:27 rjbs So it is!
23:27 * japhb wonders how TypedHash gets a double role connection to Associative
23:27 rjbs There must be a good talk to be built out of the list of core roles.
23:28 japhb Some other core Roles/Classes like Numeric and Cool are interesting too.
23:28 rjbs Yeah.  The good find was more "this kind of graph" than just that one.
23:29 japhb Yeah, understood
23:29 masak 'night, #perl6
23:29 * japhb wonders why the type graph got moved to the bottom of the doc pages
23:29 japhb Used to be right after the TOC
23:36 rjbs Huh.  So a List is Cool, so I can use it as a string or number?
23:36 rjbs I see!
23:38 raiph joined #perl6
23:39 TimToady that was not part of the original intent of Cool, actually
23:40 TimToady but obviously it works out to some extent...
23:41 TimToady I wonder where the WAT is though
23:42 b2gills m: sub f (Int $n = 0) { $n > 3 ?? "liftoff!" !! $n + 1 }; say &f ... Str;
23:42 * TimToady testing a fix for rjbs++'s looper
23:42 camelia rakudo-moar a57aff: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 liftoff!␤»
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: 9746e88 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: require existing character before peeking delims
23:44 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9746e88dd1
23:47 TimToady oh, and removed a <.ws> that is always redundant
23:48 TimToady (the problem was actually down in babble)
23:50 rjbs TimToady++ Thanks!
23:51 Woodi joined #perl6
23:53 TimToady m: m
23:53 camelia rakudo-moar a57aff: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/A1tbxsIt2D␤Undeclared routine:␤    m used at line 1␤␤»
23:53 TimToady arguably this message is LTA though
23:54 TimToady well, probably not worth the effort to be awesomer, since it can only occur at the end of the program
23:54 TimToady m: m 42
23:54 camelia rakudo-moar a57aff: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/oDyTyruIxQ␤Alphanumeric character is not allowed as a delimiter␤at /tmp/oDyTyruIxQ:1␤------> 3m7⏏5 42␤»
23:54 TimToady m: m;
23:54 camelia rakudo-moar a57aff: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Regex not terminated.␤at /tmp/Zvjm9i6dQi:1␤------> 3m;7⏏5<EOL>␤Regex not terminated.␤at /tmp/Zvjm9i6dQi:1␤------> 3m;7⏏5<EOL>␤Couldn't find terminator ;␤at /tmp/Zvjm9i6dQi:1␤------> 3m;7⏏5<EOL>␤    e…»
23:54 TimToady it gets much more upset if there's anything after it
23:56 TimToady .oO(I get upset where there's anything after me...)
23:56 TimToady *when

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