Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-03-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 TimToady m: say 42.fmt("%05d")
00:00 camelia rakudo-moar f5d0bc: OUTPUT«00042␤»
00:01 TimToady 'course the old $# variable is like, from Perl 3 or 4
00:01 TimToady well, actually, probably Perl 1
00:01 geekosaur whenever a2p was added, iirc
00:01 TimToady given it was put in for a2p
00:01 TimToady that would be Perl 1 then :)
00:02 jdv79 i still don't get it - i think i want elems
00:02 jdv79 m: 0 .. $#{$data_tree}
00:02 camelia rakudo-moar f5d0bc: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/PuqTtPhl3p␤Unsupported use of $# variable; in Perl 6 please use .fmt␤at /tmp/PuqTtPhl3p:1␤------> 0 .. $#7⏏5{$data_tree}␤»
00:02 TimToady no, that's a variant of $#foo which is completely different
00:02 jdv79 what i want is $data_tree.elems, right?
00:03 TimToady I guess it doesn't pick up the {} there correctly
00:03 TimToady for that range you just wan ^$data_tree or so
00:03 TimToady *want
00:04 TimToady my $data_tree = <a b c d e>; say ^$data_tree
00:04 TimToady m: my $data_tree = <a b c d e>; say ^$data_tree
00:04 camelia rakudo-moar f5d0bc: OUTPUT«0..^5␤»
00:04 TimToady std: 0 .. $#{$data_tree}
00:04 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Unsupported use of $# variable; in Perl 6 please use .fmt at /tmp/ScfrIKNj2L line 1:␤------> 0 .. $#7⏏5{$data_tree}␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 136m␤»
00:04 jdv79 i never knew about the fmt related form - just the array usage
00:04 TimToady hmm, I guess STD gets it wrong too
00:05 TimToady $# (without brackets) was a way to set a default output format for any numeric
00:05 TimToady it's long deprecated
00:05 jdv79 ok, reading that now - removed in 5.10 it seems
00:05 jdv79 anyway, thanks
00:06 TimToady so there's really no point in that error message
00:06 TimToady even if it were correct, which it isn't...
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00:12 dalek rakudo/nom: bcac75c | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
00:12 dalek rakudo/nom: don't bother to correct ancient $# variable
00:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bcac75cf2e
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00:18 dalek roast: 2389e34 | TimToady++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
00:18 dalek roast: ignore ancient $# variable
00:18 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2389e34d69
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00:54 [Coke] TimToady++
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01:32 dalek rakudo/nom: fafc5b0 | hoelzro++ | src/core/PseudoStash.pm:
01:32 dalek rakudo/nom: Add comment to else branches in PseudoStash
01:32 dalek rakudo/nom:
01:32 dalek rakudo/nom: The else branches correspond to the case when $!mode is
01:32 dalek rakudo/nom: STATIC_CHAIN, and having the comment makes it evident when searching
01:32 dalek rakudo/nom: the file for STATIC_CHAIN that this is when that mode takes effect
01:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fafc5b0478
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01:42 travis-ci Rakudo build failed. Rob Hoelz 'Add comment to else branches in PseudoStash
01:42 travis-ci http://travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/56043141 https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/bcac75cf2e8f...fafc5b047818
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01:57 travis-ci Rakudo build failed. Rob Hoelz 'Add comment to else branches in PseudoStash
01:57 travis-ci http://travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/56043141 https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/bcac75cf2e8f...fafc5b047818
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03:16 skids https://gist.github.com/skids/7c9089e9c941c5fc1222 # Why I've been messing around with CompUnit, by the way.
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03:43 b2gills m: my $k = <a b c>;my $n = 2; for [X] |($k xx $n) { say "$^a $^b" } # fix for http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Permutations_with_repetitions#Perl_6
03:43 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«a a␤a b␤a c␤b a␤b b␤b c␤c a␤c b␤c c␤»
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03:59 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: 7aa28d2 | hoelzro++ | src/Perl6/Compiler.nqp:
03:59 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: Don't only complete method names
03:59 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7aa28d2b74
03:59 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: bd68f7f | hoelzro++ | src/Perl6/Compiler.nqp:
03:59 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: Offer completions for classes from imported modules
03:59 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bd68f7fe56
03:59 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: 7188744 | hoelzro++ | src/Perl6/Compiler.nqp:
03:59 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: Add completions for imported modules
03:59 dalek rakudo/tab-completion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7188744dfd
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07:28 FROGGS o/
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07:50 TimToady b2gills: fixed, thanks
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08:20 nwc10 http://fwierzbicki.blogspot.com/2015/03/jython-27-release-candidate-1-available.html
08:20 * nwc10 is still wondering why blogspot is FAIL central without JS.
08:21 nwc10 Rendering text content is hard?
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08:39 jnthn morning, #perl6
08:43 eli-se Ven: I implemented procedures!
08:44 Ven \o/
08:47 nwc10 github sometimes unhappy for everyone, or just for me?
08:47 FROGGS seems to be unhappy for me too
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08:50 moritz nwc10: it's being DDoSed
08:50 cdc morning #perl6
08:50 * Ven doesn't really understand why one would ddos github
08:51 cdc I don't understand how | works in this code: "[Zeqv] |@s».ords", from http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Longest_common_prefix#Perl_6
08:52 cdc please, cuold you help me? :)
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08:52 cdc as of my understanding, it prevents @s».ords to be fully flattened
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09:03 jnthn Uh, I don't know what it's doing there either...
09:04 jnthn | means "flatten into an argument list"
09:10 cdc TimToady: could you help me to understand how | is used in "[Zeqv] |@s».ords"?
09:10 cdc (from http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Longest_common_prefix#Perl_6)
09:11 eli-se "[Zeqv] |@s».ords" Perl confirmed
09:11 eli-se what does the pipe mean?
09:11 jnthn "flatten into argument list", but I didn't actually know it was valid in this context...
09:12 cdc eli-se: some examples here: http://doc.perl6.org/type/Capture
09:13 eli-se Does it pass the elements of @s as arguments to ords?
09:13 eli-se I'm so confused. :D
09:14 cdc as of my understanding, | is used by "[Zeqv]", not by "@s».ords"
09:15 eli-se I'd avoid this code. :P
09:15 RabidGravy morning
09:16 eli-se Doesn't @ always flatten though?
09:16 Ven eli-se: no, it doesn't
09:16 eli-se Flattening rules seem arbitrary and are confusing.
09:16 Ven | is flatten, and I think it gets away with it because of the multi-dimension array
09:16 Ven assign flattens, for flattens.
09:19 jnthn | is nothing to do with array flattening though
09:19 jnthn It's *only* about argument lists.
09:19 jnthn We should maybe find a different name for it.
09:19 cdc m: [Zeqv] ((1, 1), (1, 2))
09:19 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: ( no output )
09:19 Ven it *flattens* it to an argument list?
09:19 cdc m: [Zeqv] |((1, 1), (1, 2))
09:19 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: ( no output )
09:19 cdc m: say [Zeqv] |((1, 1), (1, 2))
09:19 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«True False␤»
09:20 cdc m: say [Zeqv] ((1, 1), (1, 2))
09:20 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«True True True True␤»
09:20 jnthn Ven: Well, it usually shows up when you do foo(|@pos-args) or so
09:20 Ven indeed
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09:21 jnthn I can see it has an effect above but it looks highly accidental to me.
09:21 jnthn Could do with a TimToady to ask... :)
09:22 jnthn But we'll have to wait some hours for that.
09:22 cdc ok :) Thanks !
09:30 sjn m: [R=>] 1..9
09:30 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: ( no output )
09:30 sjn m: say [R=>] 1..9
09:30 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«(((((((9 => 8) => 7) => 6) => 5) => 4) => 3) => 2) => 1␤»
09:30 sjn m: ([R=>] 1..9).gist
09:30 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: ( no output )
09:31 jnthn .gist just formats it; need .say to get output
09:31 * sjn is a bit surprised that a Pair can have a Pair as key
09:31 jnthn A Pair can have anything as its key and value, pretty much
09:31 Ven sjn: why so?
09:32 sjn Ven: maybe because of perl5 :)
09:32 Ven only strings can be keys in perl5, no?
09:32 sjn mm
09:33 jnthn And => is a fat comma in Perl 5 rather than constructing an actual Pair object, iirc
09:34 Ven that too :P
09:34 sjn mm
09:35 eli-se m: say ((<W I> Z <A R D>), <A B E A R D>)
09:35 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«W A I R A B E A R D␤»
09:38 eli-se Poetry 6
09:39 eli-se jnthn: => in Perl 5 is the same as , except (assuming use strict) that a bareword is allowed at the left side
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09:40 eli-se http://ideone.com/LM5vWj
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09:53 * sjn looks more at Pairs
09:54 sjn what's the difference between antipair and invert?
09:54 * sjn has trouble seeing the point of antipair
09:56 jnthn invert is only on a Pair as a degenerate case.
09:57 jnthn See antiparis and invert on hashes to see what's going on, iirc.
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10:00 sjn ok, so if you want to invert a pair, and make sure it fails it fails if you're passed something else; use antipair
10:00 sjn -it fails
10:00 eli-se antipairs annihilate with pairs, inverts don't :P
10:01 FROGGS m: say <1 2 3 4>.antipair
10:01 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«No such method 'antipair' for invocant of type 'Parcel'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/k7FgLGAzzV:1␤␤»
10:01 sjn don't know what that means
10:01 FROGGS m: say <1 2 3 4>.hash.antipair
10:01 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«No such method 'antipair' for invocant of type 'Hash'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/e1rwICLNog:1␤␤»
10:01 FROGGS w/e
10:01 jnthn antipairs
10:01 FROGGS m: say <1 2 3 4>.antipairs
10:01 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«1 => 0 2 => 1 3 => 2 4 => 3␤»
10:01 FROGGS m: say <1 2 3 4>.hash
10:01 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«1 => 2, 3 => 4␤»
10:01 FROGGS hmmm
10:02 FROGGS is that suppose to happen?
10:02 sjn that looks very confusing
10:02 FROGGS I had expected  2 => 1, 4 => 3 for antipairs...
10:02 jnthn Looks right to be
10:02 FROGGS but I did not read the (design) docs about that
10:02 jnthn m: say <1 2 3 4>.pairs
10:02 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«0 => 1 1 => 2 2 => 3 3 => 4␤»
10:03 FROGGS ahhh, I see
10:03 jnthn Note how .antipairs gets you what .pairs would but with key/value swapped
10:03 FROGGS yeah
10:03 FROGGS makes sense
10:03 FROGGS since it is not antihash :o)
10:03 jnthn m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; say %h.pairs; say %h.antipairs; say %h.invert;
10:03 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«a => 1 b => 2 c => 3␤1 => a 2 => b 3 => c␤1 => a 2 => b 3 => c␤»
10:03 jnthn m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2, c => 1; say %h.pairs; say %h.antipairs; say %h.invert;
10:03 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«a => 1 b => 2 c => 1␤1 => a 2 => b 1 => c␤1 => a 2 => b 1 => c␤»
10:04 jnthn Uh. Hmm.
10:04 jnthn I thought that's where there'd be a difference...
10:04 * jnthn should apparently read the design docs too
10:06 sjn antipairs gives no hits on doc.perl6.org
10:07 sjn ah, incomplete docs. never mind
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10:31 dalek doc: 8f2c2c2 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Type/Any.pod:
10:31 dalek doc: Fix typo
10:31 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8f2c2c201a
10:35 masak good antenoon, #perl6
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10:49 dalek doc: cf99a69 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Language/5to6.pod:
10:49 dalek doc: Add initial docs about given-when construct
10:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/cf99a69a13
10:50 dalek roast: 72db753 | jnthn++ | S10-packages/precompilation.t:
10:50 dalek roast: Test for RT #124162.
10:50 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/72db753f75
10:50 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=124162
10:50 jnthn (Todo'd test, fwiw)
10:51 dalek specs: c1d2dea | paultcochrane++ | S04-control.pod:
10:51 dalek specs: Add missing "to" in sentence
10:51 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/c1d2dea297
10:51 dalek specs: 3fe5f38 | paultcochrane++ | S (3 files):
10:51 dalek specs: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/specs
10:51 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/3fe5f38fa5
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10:52 RabidGravy I have a small query about encodings: in the p5 Term::Cap there is s/\\(\d\d\d)/pack('c',oct($1) & 0177)/eg; which I somewhat naïvely translated to s:g/\\(\d\d\d)/{ pack('C', :8($0)).decode }/
10:52 RabidGravy (actually doing it now in the action class but the effect is the same)
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10:54 RabidGravy which is all well and good for some inputs, but in the big termcap file with lots of obscure historical devices there are quite a lot of \200 sequences
10:54 RabidGravy now this quite reasonably blows up with "Maiformed UTF-8"
10:56 jnthn I hope it's Malformed or we've a typo :)
10:57 RabidGravy so after my little brane kicked around for a bit I realised that the same effect could achieved with :8($0).chr  which does work fine
10:57 masak no, it's literally shaped like the French month of Mai.
10:57 psch \o
10:58 masak o/
10:58 RabidGravy in the merry merry month of Mai
10:58 psch is the french month of Mai the same as the german one?
10:58 masak looks like
10:58 RabidGravy anyway this works as I expect  :8("200").chr.ord gives 128 etc
11:00 RabidGravy but it has "upgraded" the string and in the output there is a BOM which as I see it is going to break the intent of the tc entry
11:00 masak m: my $promise = Promise.new; say $promise.status; Promise::Vow.new(:$promise).keep(42); say $promise.status
11:00 camelia rakudo-moar fafc5b: OUTPUT«Planned␤Kept␤»
11:00 * masak submits rakudobug
11:00 masak I should read source more often :>
11:01 masak seems you can create a new Promise::Vow just by referring to it, because it's an `our` class.
11:01 jnthn umm...wtf
11:01 jnthn I thought that was a lexical class
11:01 masak all accesses *should* go through the .vow method in Promise, but they don't have to
11:03 jnthn masak: Please try making it a lexical class and seeing if that helps things.
11:04 masak will do, just let me finish submitting the rakudobug first.
11:04 * masak has a Perl 6 day today o/
11:04 masak jnthn: I dug down in git blame. you created it (as "Keeper") in 0358bae2394e14c7b4f42cd4e7f069a19c1bf060 -- it was 'our'-scoped already then.
11:06 * nwc10 has a POETS day
11:07 RabidGravy that's really, really early nwc10 - I do hope you're going to call beer o'clock early
11:08 jnthn masak: OK...I suspect it's an oversight. I can't think of any reason I'd have wanted it to be non-lexical...
11:08 masak me either.
11:08 masak it feels like the pattern completes perfectly if it is a lexical.
11:08 jnthn Right.
11:08 jnthn (previous jnthn)-- # not thinking about scope
11:17 [ptc] nwc10: just so you can impress your coworkers: a POETS day translates in German roughly to: Freitag ab eins, macht jeder seins
11:18 jnthn .oO( How is the tag frei if I have to go to work? :P )
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11:19 * jnthn has got RT#124162 fixed on Moar HEAD o/
11:19 * synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=124162
11:19 psch jnthn: there's a series of books that builds on that pun (i guess it is one?)
11:19 [ptc] jnthn: :P
11:19 psch jnthn: it's about one Herr Taschenbier, that gets a visit from the Sams, after a week of things happening that fit with the name of the day
11:20 jnthn :D
11:20 psch jnthn: e.g. on thursday (Donnerstag) there's thunder
11:20 psch http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sams_(Buchreihe)
11:20 [ptc] jnthn: well, I guess in Germany all of the work is already done on Dienstag
11:20 psch no translated article apparently :/
11:21 psch but that's likely because the books aren't translated either, which would be hard i suppose
11:22 jnthn Yes, unfortunately ability to make basic puns in a language != having any competence in it :)
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11:37 * masak tried to explain "MOP to break privacy in your tests is not a good idea" in all possible ways in a p6u post
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11:42 dalek roast: 08eb364 | jnthn++ | S10-packages/precompilation.t:
11:42 dalek roast: 6model parametric interning + pre-comp test
11:42 dalek roast:
11:42 dalek roast: Currently todo'd on all backends.
11:42 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/08eb364625
11:43 masak ok, declaring 'my Vow' compiles and passes the immediate test of hiding the Vow class.
11:43 masak spectesting.
11:43 jnthn masak++
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11:57 [Tux] Something recent broke Text::CSV :(
11:58 dalek nqp: 579b06f | jnthn++ | docs/serialization_format.markdown:
11:58 dalek nqp: Initial parametric intern serialization design.
11:58 dalek nqp:
11:58 dalek nqp: Describes a new section to hold information we need to implement the
11:58 dalek nqp: cross-compilation-unit interning of parameterized types.
11:58 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/579b06f810
12:00 jnthn [Tux]: How does it fail?
12:00 * [Tux] is investigating
12:00 skids jnthn++
12:01 skids Though now I have to go find another precomp bug to test my precomp Test:: stuff with :-)
12:01 RabidGravy I knew a shower would sort my previous uncertainty about encodings, of course I just shouldn't worry about it until such time as I am about to output it
12:02 * [Tux] thinks something to do with boolean
12:02 jnthn shopping, lunch; bbiab &
12:06 [Tux] fail is caused by some exception ~~ /string/
12:06 masak PASS
12:06 dalek rakudo/nom: fb991be | (Carl Masak)++ | src/core/Promise.pm:
12:06 dalek rakudo/nom: Lexicalize Promise::Vow
12:06 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:06 dalek rakudo/nom: See RT #124190. The mechanism of a Vow being exclusive to a Promise hinges on
12:06 dalek rakudo/nom: Vow being defined as 'my'.
12:06 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fb991be191
12:06 synopsebot Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=124190
12:07 masak gonna write a spectest for this after lunch, and then close the ticket.
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12:10 travis-ci Rakudo build failed. Carl Masak 'Lexicalize Promise::Vow
12:10 travis-ci http://travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/56084029 https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/fafc5b047818...fb991be191c9
12:10 travis-ci left #perl6
12:11 masak travis-ci: what are you talking about -- I built and tested locally :/
12:11 masak :(
12:11 * masak does a fresh checkout
12:12 moritz masak: not your fault
12:12 moritz https://travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/jobs/56084030
12:12 masak oh!
12:12 masak (phew)
12:12 moritz error: RPC failed; result=56, HTTP code = 200
12:12 moritz fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
12:12 moritz probably due to github being still under heavy load
12:13 dalek specs: 695cab7 | paultcochrane++ | S04-control.pod:
12:13 dalek specs: Wrap paragraphs consistently
12:13 dalek specs:
12:13 dalek specs: This contains *no* changes to content and is only a formatting change to
12:13 dalek specs: give the text a consistent and clean look and feel.
12:13 dalek joined #perl6
12:14 flussence I've a tiny feature request: --profile=json (for dumping straight to a .json without the fancy html wrapper)
12:14 yoleaux 26 Mar 2015 20:11Z <pippo> flussence: Thank you very much. That is interesting. Cheers.
12:16 RabidGravy oh what joy "Finally, characters may be given as three octal digits after a \" - so, er, ":do=^J:am:le=^H:bs:cl=^NR:cm=^O%\068%+9%\068%+9:co#80:li#27:\"
12:18 RabidGravy do you think they are still accepting patches for FreeBSD termcap?
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12:27 hoelzro tadzik: panda doesn't do anything special when a target repo has submodules, does it?
12:29 [Tux] if I isolate the test, the test passes
12:31 jnthn masak: I ran into the same thing earlier today...oh, but you're not on #moarvm so you didn't notice :)
12:31 [Tux] If anyone feels like digging: https://github.com/Tux/CSV/blob/master/t/55_combi.t#L46 <= is the line that fails
12:32 tadzik hoelzro: no, it does not
12:32 tadzik mayhaps it should clone --recursive just in case
12:33 hoelzro tadzik: I looked at p6-all-modules, and nothing uses submodules (yet)
12:33 hoelzro but I was going to for linenoise
12:34 tadzik okay, we can add --recursive there, no problem
12:34 hoelzro cool!
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12:42 hoelzro is there a routine for sorting a list in lexicographical order in NQP?
12:42 hoelzro I just realized the list of completions my tab completion branch offers isn't sorted =/
12:43 tadzik I don't suppose nqp has this sort of stuff
12:44 jnthn No, don't know of any
12:46 hoelzro tadzik: pun intended? =P
12:46 hoelzro ok, I'll have to write my own routine or something
12:46 tadzik hoelzro: hahaha, no, I did not :D
12:46 H2O1 joined #perl6
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12:50 eiro hello
12:50 Ven \o
12:51 Akagi201_ joined #perl6
12:52 RabidGravy ooh it gets better, anyone who wants to feel better about their own software and has access to a FreeBSD termcap look at the entry for IBM 3163
12:55 [Coke] .u rx
12:55 yoleaux No characters found
12:55 [Coke] .u prescription
12:55 yoleaux U+211E PRESCRIPTION TAKE [So] (℞)
12:58 kjs_ joined #perl6
12:59 [Tux] https://gist.github.com/Tux/7d23f5478dc962699f8f <= REPRODUCED!
12:59 [Tux] please fix :)
12:59 [Tux] memory leak or something?
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13:00 [Tux] jnthn, ^^
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13:02 jnthn Doubt it's a leak, could be corruption
13:02 jnthn Either way, a good fine
13:03 [Tux] tests++
13:03 jnthn *find
13:03 jnthn I'm working on $other-hard-problem at the moment
13:03 jnthn But will put it on my todo list :)
13:05 masak [Tux]: will you submit a rakudobug, or shall I?
13:06 [Tux] please do: you have better inside in how to describe the problem
13:06 masak nice find, by the way.
13:06 kurahaupo1 joined #perl6
13:06 masak surely that can be golf'd a bit?
13:07 * masak tries
13:07 masak reproduced locally.
13:07 masak and at exactly the same point in the loop.
13:07 masak seems very stable that way.
13:08 RabidGravy and the termcap from http://www.catb.org/terminfo/ doesn't even have those capbilities
13:16 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
13:19 masak [Tux]: I managed to golf it quite a bit.
13:19 masak m: class C is Exception { method message { "OH NOES" } }; for ^208 { { die C.new; CATCH { default {} } }; print "." }
13:19 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«...............................................................................................................................................................................................................OH NOES␤  in block  at /tmp/3uBvBOFJHV:1␤␤»
13:20 masak m: my $dots = 0; class C is Exception { method message { "That is $dots dots" } }; for ^208 { { die C.new; CATCH { default {} } }; $dots++ }
13:20 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«That is 207 dots␤  in block  at /tmp/9q7YDKFEAC:1␤␤»
13:21 masak so it *works* for 207 iterations, and then -- GC triggers? JIT? optimizer? -- it fails on the 208th.
13:21 * masak submits rakudobug
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13:22 arnsholt Weird!
13:22 eiro what if, when i translate something, i disagree the author ?
13:22 arnsholt If I had to guess, I suppose I'd say that it might be a bug in the spesh/JIT stuff
13:22 eiro is it fair to just not translate it ?
13:22 arnsholt eiro: You translate
13:23 masak eiro: insert a translator's footnote?
13:23 arnsholt If it's really bad, maybe add a translator's note
13:23 eiro oohhh yes :)
13:23 eiro thanks
13:24 masak yeah, the translator's note is kind of a last resort.
13:24 arnsholt If you want to critique a piece, you should write a separate thing about it
13:24 arnsholt As a translator, your job is to communicate the author's intent, not your own thoughts on the matter
13:25 eiro this is not a critic but i disagree the conclusion
13:26 eiro i'm translating 5to6 (yes ... i have some spare time today) and about whitespaces, i read:  Many of those restrictions are unlikely to concern much real-life Perl code
13:26 psch j: my $dots = 0; class C is Exception { method message { "That is $dots dots" } }; for ^208 { { die C.new; CATCH { default {} } }; $dots++ }
13:26 camelia rakudo-jvm fb991b: ( no output )
13:26 psch j: my $dots = 0; class C is Exception { method message { "That is $dots dots" } }; for ^500 { { die C.new; CATCH { default {} } }; $dots++ }
13:26 camelia rakudo-jvm fb991b: ( no output )
13:27 eiro which is not true: i always use line returns when chainning a lot of methods or walking around deep structures
13:27 eiro in perl6, you have to put a \ to do this
13:27 eiro and i think an example could be usefull here
13:28 masak eiro: pardon me for saying so, but somehow it feels very French to want to interject something while translating. ;)
13:28 arnsholt psch: Good idea to constrast with JVM. And I think that finding goes well with my first instinct that it's a Moar/spesh problem
13:28 eiro masak, you made a point there
13:29 masak eiro: I'd advise translating that bit straight, but then blogging about it and maybe effecting a change in the original. everybody wins that way.
13:29 eiro i'll just STFU and translate :)
13:29 masak eiro++ # trascending his Frenchness :)
13:30 masak Tux says something recent caused the above failure. I'd really appreciate it if someone wanted bisect (maybe a month back or so).
13:30 eiro haha ... masak you know me for a while now: i owne you at least 1 blog post (about snowflakes) so i'm really nervous talking about blog posts
13:30 masak I could do it myself, but I would prefer to delegate so that I can use my `perl6` for other stuff.
13:31 [Tux] last PASS was yesterday or wednesday
13:31 masak eiro: you owe me a post about snowflakes? tell me more!
13:31 [Tux] I rebuild rakudo daily
13:31 psch arnsholt: spesh/jit are really far outside "stuff psch knows", but it has to be somewhere in moar i suppose... :)
13:31 psch i don't think codegen there should be sufficiently different
13:32 * masak .oO( I build my Rakudo every day. do you even lift? ) :P
13:32 jnthn There was a Moar version bump yesterday, for the first time since the 2015.03 release.
13:33 jnthn -2015.03
13:33 jnthn +2015.03-16-ga752064
13:33 eiro masak, it was about the way i write code in perl5 (in perlude afaik). you told me not to lead lines with coma and i answer that it makes things more readable. then you explain me the concept of snowflake
13:33 RabidGravy anyone who use rakudobrew on FreeBSD?
13:33 masak oh, that's a prime candidate, then.
13:34 jnthn Curiously, the only spesh patches I see in the list change the thresholds for when dynamic opt kicks in.
13:34 jnthn Meaning the problem in theory woulda been noticable *sooner* before...
13:34 masak eiro: wow. I remember the discussion about commas, but I have kind of forgotten about the snowflake connection.
13:34 eiro i wanted to explain my point of view in a blog post, tried a few time but never get the point i have something readable
13:36 eiro masak, i remember the snowflake connection because the blog post draft is named "snowflakes looks alike" or something
13:36 masak :)
13:36 masak should make it easy to search the backlog for the conversation.
13:37 psch r: say "how many backends is that?"
13:37 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«how many backends is that?␤»
13:38 masak eiro: found it. seems like the "snowflake" metaphor is from someone else's blog post: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-10-26#i_6101700
13:38 masak which explains why it didn't leave a strong impression in me.
13:38 Ven masak: why does it sound french to add stuff in translations? I'm interested :P
13:38 masak Ven: I dunno, it just does.
13:38 Ven masak: well, got any example for me?
13:38 eiro yep. but i i'm trying a new approach of my todo list: switching algorithm from "FILO" to the gandalf principle: "you shall not pass"
13:39 masak Ven: maybe I have the French pegged as people who like to intellectually disagree a lot.
13:39 Ven I think you could even drop "intellectually" most of the time :P
13:39 masak Ven: closest concrete example I can think of is "Lisp In Small Pieces", which is a very opinionated book :)
13:40 Ven BooK isn't *that* opinionated... *g* (sorry, book)
13:41 skids joined #perl6
13:41 masak hehe
13:41 masak BooK knew what he signed up for when he chose his nick.
13:43 masak eiro: dunno if I mentioned it in the last comma conversation we had, but your comma convention breaks the way commas work in *writing*, which is why it looks ugly. my convention protects against the same things, but doesn't break the way commas work in writing.
13:44 tinyblak joined #perl6
13:45 psch hrm, github still under fire :/
13:45 psch clone worked, push doesn't
13:46 masak different read side and write side, perhaps?
13:46 airdisa joined #perl6
13:46 gtodd https://www.artsy.net/feature/the-algorithm-auction  there is nothing perl related ....
13:48 RabidGravy ah I thought it was me and github today
13:49 jnthn psch: I've found retrying after a little time seems to work
13:49 RabidGravy one in three requests failing
13:50 SamuraiJack joined #perl6
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13:51 psch yeah, push went through
13:52 raiph joined #perl6
13:52 psch "Reenable j: for r: and p6:, replace star-p: with star-j: in star:. " but i don't think camelia cares automatically?
13:53 RabidGravy don't think I'll play FreeBSD today - I knew I should have gone for a noise day
13:54 eli-se joined #perl6
14:01 psch .ask moritz can you check my perl6/evalbot commit and update camelia?
14:01 yoleaux psch: I'll pass your message to moritz.
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14:04 masak how would I formulate a spectest that checks for Promise::Vow not being an 'our' class?
14:04 masak is checking that `Promise.WHO<Vow> :exists` is False an OK way to do it?
14:05 masak m: my $p = Promise.new; my $vowname = $p.vow.^name; say Promise.WHO{$vowname} :exists
14:05 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«False␤»
14:06 masak maybe something like that? then even if we rename Vow (like it was renamed from Keeper to Vow before), the spectest remains meaningful.
14:06 psch ...and >20 load on hack again :/
14:06 jnthn Seems reasonable.
14:06 * masak makes it so
14:06 * psch should maybe have moved to the irc host after all
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14:39 lucas_ Hi. So :U means either a type object or a failure object, right? How come some methods in Bool.pm has a signature of Bool:U and they still work on defined objects?
14:40 jnthn lucas_: Example?
14:40 lucas_ In other words, why do their signature must be Bool:U and not just Bool?
14:41 lucas_ pick, roll, and pre/postfix ++, --
14:42 jnthn m: True.pick
14:42 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«Cannot call pick(Bool: ); none of these signatures match:␤    (Bool:U: *%_)␤    (Bool:U: Any $n, *%_)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/pPdm5uWQds:1␤␤»
14:42 jnthn Doesn't look like it's wrongly working on a defined object to me...
14:43 jnthn The prefix/postfix cases are multi candidates and are defining the auto-viv semantics.
14:43 jnthn So a defined Bool hits an implementation of ++/-- elsewhere
14:43 jnthn Probably the one that delegates to .pred/.succ
14:44 psch psch@hack:~$ ps -ely | grep cron | wc -l
14:44 psch 43
14:45 psch /o\
14:46 lucas_ jnthn: Thanks! I just started reading Bool.pm source and I'm still a little confused.
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14:55 skids So, if I fork rakudo to PR my Test:: enhancements, should I select perl6 organization option versus myself?  I don't know which way works out better.
14:56 jnthn skids: Probably yourself, if I understand the question correctly
14:56 psch skids: you could also branch in-repo i suppose
14:57 skids Don't think I have the bit for that.
14:57 psch oh right, commit access to the repos isn't the same as being in the org
14:58 psch skids: you're talking about Test::Utils and such?
14:58 psch those are in roast, and you have commits there
14:58 psch at least if you're skids on github as well :)
14:59 skids jnthn: Basically when I hit fork it now gives me a popup to choose myself or the perl6 org.  And I don't know what that does exactly.
15:00 hoelzro skids: it's asking if you want the fork under your user (github.com/skids/rakudo-fork) or the Perl 6 org (github.com/perl6/rakudo-fork)
15:00 jnthn skids: I think if you choose yourself then you'll get a github.com/skids/rakudo
15:00 jnthn Which is probably what you want.
15:00 hoelzro if you have a commit bit, I think you should just do it in a branch on perl6/rakudo
15:01 skids hoelzro: I only have a bit for docs/spec etc.
15:01 yoleaux joined #perl6
15:01 hoelzro ah, ok
15:01 hoelzro then I would say fork to your user
15:01 skids It is decided then :-)
15:02 psch so it wasn't about Test::Util apparently
15:02 skids psch: No, https://gist.github.com/skids/7c9089e9c941c5fc1222
15:02 psch on that note, i've occasionally wanted &is_run when writing tests
15:03 psch it's not designed, so i suppose that'll be ecosystem Test::More or something
15:05 skids I suppose the code could go anywhere, but it's intended to actually be used in roast eventually.
15:05 larion joined #perl6
15:09 psch skids: well, rakudo/lib/Test.pm is the Test that we shit to end-users.  roast/packages/Test/Util.pm contains more compiler-specific testing routines
15:10 raiph joined #perl6
15:10 psch s/shit/ship/
15:10 psch o.o
15:10 skids Yeah I figured that out. :-)
15:10 * grondilu nominates psch for the typo of the year :)
15:11 * jnthn chokes on his tea :P
15:11 skids Well, ATM that code uses some nqp stuff, but once CompUnit is implemented to spec it will not be compiler specific.
15:12 psch skids: i'm just wondering if that's something users will want to test
15:12 skids It does raise the minimum bar a bit WRT exception handling probably, but just to run Test you already need to have EVAL and try.
15:13 psch i'm not really opposed to putting it there, i'm just remembering that it can sometimes be a bit grating to wait for someone to look over a PR... :)
15:13 * psch should maybe start doing that occasionally as well
15:14 skids Well I'm very open to suggestions as to the destination, and also as to the actual speccing of exported functions to use it.
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15:16 RabidGravy speaking of nqp stuff, in Linux::Fuser I've used nqp::lstat - is that okay for the long term? or is there a plan to implement stat()/lstat() for e.g. IO::Path
15:17 [Coke] nqp ops in rakudo should be rare. If you have to use them, we probably need to implement something in rakudo.
15:17 [Coke] in future, you'll need something like use NQP_STUFF; to declare it.
15:17 jnthn RabidGravy: That should be exposed eventually; I think lizmat++ already has worked on that in the newio branch
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15:20 RabidGravy cool, I'll keep an eye on that then :)
15:21 skids psch: I guess the real question is, would an ecosystem module author need to ensure that the compiler could run a precomp unit that invokes his code before allowing panda to install it for production use.  And I've seen some places where I would need that, though hopefully they will all go away.
15:21 vendethiel joined #perl6
15:24 psch skids: i guess then it mostly depends on whether those places are supposed to go away.  if yes it should imo be a Test::Util routine
15:24 psch that is, i would answer "assuming a perfect implementation, would users want to test CompUnits?" with "no"
15:25 airdisa joined #perl6
15:25 skids Yes, how reliably we can prevent regressions or unnitoced stuff out of shipped products factors in.
15:25 psch (i think "perfect" there probably means "100% roast conformant")
15:25 psch (and roast has CompUnit tests, in that scenario)
15:26 psch but that's probably a bit too hypothetical to use as an actual argument
15:30 xfix joined #perl6
15:30 skids Maybe the best thing is, put it in roast until enough people ask for it.  Or Test::Util, if roast just syncs that (I don't know what goes on in roast/packages)
15:30 jnthn Test::Util lives in roast, iirc
15:31 RabidGravy where should $*USER be documented?  I never found it before so I did  "sub getuid() is NativeCall returns Int { ... }" to find that out
15:32 skids Ah, I see, it's not an ecosystem mod.
15:34 masak apparently it's Baidu's CDN that's been hijacked to DDoS Github.
15:34 Ven joined #perl6
15:35 smls joined #perl6
15:35 smls o/
15:35 masak to be specific, the DDoS happens because Baidu *visitors* make a search and the results page fires off a few requests to Github.
15:35 fhelmberger joined #perl6
15:36 moritz ok, hack is nearly hanging again
15:36 yoleaux 14:01Z <psch> moritz: can you check my perl6/evalbot commit and update camelia?
15:36 moritz and, here's the thing
15:36 moritz the load is >100
15:36 moritz and rising
15:36 moritz and yet, via the virt-manager console, it feels mostly responsive
15:36 masak moritz: is it possible to see which processes are causing the load?
15:36 moritz but killing processes doesn't seem to work
15:36 moritz masak: I wouldn't know how
15:36 psch psch@hack:~$ ps -ely | grep cron | wc -l
15:36 psch 78
15:37 moritz psch: yes, I've observed a high number of cron processes before
15:37 masak I wonder if it's something forehead-smackingly simple that's causing hack to behave the way it does.
15:37 smls RabidGravy: $*USER should be documented at http://doc.perl6.org/language/variables#Dynamic_variables (but isn't yet)
15:37 masak and we'll all go "oooh" when we realize it.
15:38 psch moritz: right, i was just confirming that's it's the same.  although in hindsight you probably already knew.
15:38 moritz psch: but since killing the processes doesn't work (a killall hangs), I guess there's something wrong with process handling in general
15:38 moritz psch: I also tried to kill your java process (simply becauses it uses quite some RAM), and that hangs too
15:39 psch moritz: my java process is a perl6-j shell stuck at ^D :/
15:39 psch s/shell/REPL/
15:39 RabidGravy smls, that's what I thought :)
15:39 Akagi201_ joined #perl6
15:39 * [Coke] investigates hack...
15:40 psch moritz: kill -9 put that process <defunct> for me just now
15:40 smls m: say $*USER.WHAT  # huh.
15:40 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:26974␤  in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:18645␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ASjWg_tQG2:1␤␤»
15:40 [Coke] irssi is responding just fine, but opening a new shell is hanging.
15:40 [Coke] ... but hitting control c in the new window made it come right back?
15:41 masak haha -- Github responded by XSS-ing the attacking clients, putting up an alert() in their browsers! :D
15:41 masak reading this is like reading a William Gibson novel
15:42 Ven haha
15:43 masak anyway, Github++
15:43 moritz [Coke]: the ctrl+C probably killed a program called from your .bashrc
15:43 masak see it here in action: https://github.com/greatfire/ and https://github.com/cn-nytimes/
15:44 [Coke] might need iodump or iostat to get io stats. (or is there some other io tool installed?)
15:44 moritz atop is installed, but starting it hangs :(
15:45 [Coke] regular top works
15:45 [Coke] trying to run vmstat and lsof...
15:45 masak moritz: sounds to me like the distribution is hosed somehow.
15:47 [Coke] how can load average be 120 if 0.2% of the cpu is in use?
15:47 bartolin_ [Coke]: iowait?
15:48 retupmoca FWIW, the only time I've had processes refuse to be killed was when I was out of hard disk space
15:48 [Coke] how can I check io status?
15:48 RabidGravy smls, just added that and sent a pull request ;-)
15:48 moritz top says the CPUs are in 99.5% wait status
15:48 moritz which is why the load is so high
15:48 bartolin_ [Coke]: if you run top there is a value for wait in the line Cpu
15:49 bartolin_ what moritz says
15:49 vendethiel joined #perl6
15:49 * bartolin_ can not connect to hack
15:50 [Coke] so how can I see what's causing that without, e.g. iotop?
15:50 RabidGravy vmstat?
15:51 [Coke] vmstat hangs. :)
15:51 RabidGravy can never remember the precise incantation
15:51 RabidGravy oops
15:52 [Coke] all the crons are in D state pretty regularly.
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15:52 maannj hey all
15:54 [Coke] ugh, I probably won't be able to sudo here.
15:55 moritz hi maannj
15:55 * retupmoca wonders what 'df -h' would show
15:55 bartolin_ [Coke]: can you see a complete process list?
15:55 retupmoca otoh, I assume hack has a lot of disk space
15:55 moritz retupmoca: it hangs
15:55 lucas_ If there is a signature of (SomeType \a is rw) { a = ... }, the parameter could just as well be $a in the first place, right?
15:55 [Coke] retupmoca: nothing, it hangs.
15:55 retupmoca oh
15:55 [Coke] bartolin_: sure.
15:56 moritz retupmoca: but yes, it has lots of free space
15:56 retupmoca well, you've reached the limits of my knowledge in the area
15:56 spider-mario joined #perl6
15:56 bartolin_ [Coke]: ooc, could you gist it somewhere maybe?
15:57 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/coke/10b64c3ce486dea00dab
15:58 bartolin_ thanks, [Coke]++
15:58 [Coke] can anyone see syslog? I can't even.
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16:00 jnthn lucas_: I'd say so
16:01 bartolin_ looking at the process list I would suspect 14227 and 13927 to be problematic. but probably it's not possible to kill those?
16:02 lucas_ jnthn: thanks.
16:02 [Coke] I can't even kill -9 one of my processes. still shows up in ps with state of D
16:02 moritz it seems no processes terminate at all
16:03 moritz well, they do; it seems no processes can be killed
16:03 [Coke] I suspect we'll have to reboot again, but this time maybe install iotop and leave that running somewhere. (and maybe also leave a sudo bash running somewhere)
16:04 bartolin_ hmm, but if you run ps, it seems to end (I see only one 'ps' in the process list, as expected)
16:05 [Coke] wait, something just died!
16:05 moritz load is now 133
16:07 moritz screen -rd hangs
16:07 moritz ok, I'll reboot
16:07 [Coke] I had a man CRON process that eventually did die.
16:07 [Coke] nothing else did, though.
16:08 RabidGravy ah $*GROUP as well, let's do that while I'm looking
16:08 [Coke]
16:08 [Coke]
16:08 moritz RabidGravy: you could be able to push directly to perl6/doc, without the need for a pull request
16:09 moritz at least if you accepted my invitation :-)
16:10 moritz ok, 'reboot' did nothing; I had to force-off it in the hypervisor
16:10 dalek joined #perl6
16:11 moritz it's back.
16:12 RabidGravy moritz, not seen any invitation - but this could be the email shitting me around
16:14 masak joined #perl6
16:15 masak moritz++ others++ # for investigating this
16:18 eiro https://github.com/eiro/doc/commit/5745d809b79e811293528873bc0d27f5c484af57
16:19 spider-mario what will parameterized type serialization bring, basically?
16:19 eiro got Homepage complete and 5to6 partially translated. but i guess there is no infrastructure to have it online
16:20 jnthn spider-mario: A bunch less pre-comp bugs
16:20 spider-mario oh, ok
16:20 psch joined #perl6
16:21 masak eiro: the comment on line 70 looks like it wants to be translated to French, too
16:22 eiro masak, i'm not sure about what you said about "the way commas works in writtings
16:22 eiro you mean "writting code" ?
16:22 eiro masak, i check
16:23 masak eiro: no, I mean writing prose
16:23 * masak .oO( non, I mean writing prose ) :P
16:24 eiro :))
16:24 PerlJam joined #perl6
16:24 eiro i have to admit i'm confused: so many opinions, so many good arguments
16:24 spider-mario La pratique du "code golf" n'est pas mise en avant dans Perl6
16:25 eiro well... i have to stop trying to be a developper and focus on the doc
16:25 spider-mario hm, other minor typos
16:25 spider-mario mind if I submit a PR some time?
16:25 eiro spider-mario, french ? mayby you can fix
16:26 eiro of course not :)
16:26 eiro it was the idea of pushing things on github
16:27 spider-mario also, apparently, « espace » is technically a feminine noun, even though it’s much more common to make it masculine
16:27 spider-mario which route do you prefer to take? :p
16:27 RabidGravy in the meantime I've just made a pull request to document $*GROUP as well
16:29 eiro spider-mario, you mean "une espace" ?
16:29 eiro spider-mario, the route you want
16:29 eiro spider-mario, also interested by a french translation ?
16:30 eiro masak, fixed
16:30 spider-mario yes
16:30 masak eiro++
16:33 * grondilu is french an is pretty sure "espace" is masculine
16:33 grondilu *and
16:33 spider-mario not the typographical character, apparently
16:34 spider-mario but some people argue that the computer character doesn’t fall into that category
16:35 TimToady maybe we should reintroduce the neuter gender into French :)
16:35 spider-mario I’m all for it
16:35 Ven_ joined #perl6
16:35 * Ven_ 's also guilty of saying "un espace" when he should really say "une espace" :)
16:36 spider-mario if it replaces the other genders completely for common nouns
16:36 Ven_ "computer character doesn’t fall into that category" seems like a typographical character to me, tho.
16:37 * TimToady fondly remembers raising kids and saying things like "It wants a cookie."
16:38 jdv79 i think a lot of english speakers would find that irrationally offensive
16:38 dalek doc: 9213d4b | (Jonathan Stowe)++ | lib/Language/variables.pod:
16:38 dalek doc: Document $*GROUP
16:38 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9213d4b7ce
16:38 dalek doc: 91cbe6d | moritz++ | lib/Language/variables.pod:
16:38 dalek doc: Merge pull request #66 from jonathanstowe/master
16:38 dalek doc:
16:38 dalek doc: Document $*GROUP
16:38 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/91cbe6d41c
16:38 PerlJam .oO( "It rubss the lotion on its skin" )
16:38 jdv79 basically
16:39 spider-mario I’m also tired of all the (e), -e- and other politically correct nonsense
16:39 masak PerlJam: I was wondering whether I was alone in having that association...
16:39 spider-mario l’Académie française disapproves, too
16:39 masak of course it does :P
16:40 spider-mario they say that in addition to being ugly, it adds to the problem more than it solves
16:40 spider-mario and that in somes cases, it is impossible altogether
16:40 spider-mario (you won’t say « Le fauteuil et la chaise sont blanc(he)s »)
16:41 masak I like how gender is so fundamental to us that it gets expressed as a problem in spelling.
16:41 PerlJam I wonder when that first happened
16:42 spider-mario do German speakers do the same?
16:42 spider-mario e.g. write „Student(in)en“
16:42 psch spider-mario: Student/Innen
16:42 FROGGS joined #perl6
16:43 psch the "I" might not be capitalized
16:43 spider-mario is it as common as in France?
16:43 spider-mario I really can’t stand it anymore :/
16:43 psch in official documents it's very common, yeah
16:44 PerlJam (I'm also wondering if the French language is having an undue influence on Perl 6  ;)
16:44 [Coke] joined #perl6
16:44 PerlJam [Coke]: o/
16:45 spider-mario if it does, I don’t really see it
16:45 spider-mario except for «», maybe :p
16:46 [Coke] PerlJam: o/
16:46 PerlJam spider-mario: see?!? guillemets everywhere!
16:46 spider-mario it’s not as if variables were declared using « le »
16:46 spider-mario le $x;
16:46 spider-mario les @xs;
16:47 PerlJam Though that would make an interesting module ...  use French;
16:47 PerlJam But I'll leave the implementation of that to TheDamian
16:48 spider-mario use Perle;
16:48 jnthn Well, FROGGS is the slangs person... :D
16:48 raiph joined #perl6
16:49 spider-mario (as I suspected, “Perle” is taken by several other languages)
16:49 FROGGS :o)
16:51 [Coke] m: use Perl;
16:51 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find Perl in any of: /home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/lib, /home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6␤»
16:51 [Coke] m: use *;
16:51 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/BOOhVIMzVN␤Undeclared routine:␤    use used at line 1␤␤»
16:53 PerlJam std: use *;
16:53 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Confused at /tmp/1rB1KXae1h line 1:␤------> 3use 7⏏5*;␤    expecting any of:␤        module_name␤    version␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 133m␤»
16:54 bartolin_ moritz, [Coke]: wrt hack.p6c.org: I looked at some logfiles (/var/log/syslog etc.) and it seems the log entries stopped between 13:48 and 13:50 (last entry I found was 13:48:xx), at 13:50:00 there should have been new entries from cron processes.
16:55 bartolin_ maybe the system partition became remounted read-only at that time (for some reason)?
16:56 bartolin_ next time we should check that.
16:56 [Coke] I have iotop -d 5 running in a screen window now, fwiw.
16:56 hahainternet one of your guys machines died?
16:56 [Coke] bartolin_: there's nothing to check. once it happens you can't do much. :)
16:56 bartolin_ a read-only filesystem would explain the symptoms
16:56 hahainternet bartolin_: modify your boot config to include a 'netconsole' module line
16:56 [Coke] (I couldn't run df, or dmesg..)
16:57 hahainternet being unable to run dmesg is a little odd
16:57 hahainternet did it hang indefinitely [Coke]?
16:57 bartolin_ [Coke]: just run 'mount'
16:57 [Coke] bartolin_: I would expect that to cause failures, not blocks.
16:57 [Coke] bartolin_: I'll try it, but I bet it also hangs. we'll see
16:57 hahainternet right, if it's hanging indefinitely that's a very common disk or controller failure sign
16:57 bartolin_ however, I would even suggest to test that hypotheses and manually remount the root-fs as read-only ...
16:57 hahainternet and the result of that will be a remount,ro
16:58 hahainternet bartolin_: you must have some other machine you can send udp syslogs to
16:58 hahainternet doing that with the netconsole module will get you these messages
16:58 hahainternet it's how we validate these sorts of failures at work
16:58 bartolin_ hahainternet: sounds good, yes
16:58 [Coke] moritz: do you mean the reboot didn't do anything, or it rebooted back into the same state?
16:58 hahainternet otherwise, your symptoms sound exactly like a disk or controller failure
16:58 [Coke] 279 be/3 root        0.00 B/s    0.00 B/s  0.00 % 31.21 % [jbd2/vda6-8]
16:59 [Coke] that seems to be a pretty consistent io user. peaked at 31% io. (now at 0ish, though. nevermind. :)
16:59 PerlJam .oO(  And now hack slows to a crawl from all of the system monitoring we're doing  ;)
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17:19 moritz [Coke]: huh? hack seems fine, load is low
17:21 [Coke] moritz: yes.
17:21 [Coke] I started the monitor NOW because I couldn't when we were having the problem.
17:21 [Coke] my reboot question was in re: backscroll. you had problem swith the reboot, trying to figure ou thte nature of the problem.
17:22 moritz [Coke]: reboot didn't seem to do anything
17:25 [Coke] ... "you mean it didn't reboot, or it rebooted and then it didn't seem to do anything". :)
17:26 moritz yes, didn't reboot
17:26 xinming joined #perl6
17:26 [Coke] ok.
17:26 moritz your first branch :-)
17:32 [Coke] I'm asking some friends, they were curious how scr0d things were.
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17:50 J-L m: use v6; my $n = 0; if True { $n = 7 }; say $n
17:50 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«7␤»
17:50 J-L m: use v6; my $n = 0; if True { $n = 7 }  say $n
17:50 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/78autCj1VA␤Confused␤at /tmp/78autCj1VA:1␤------> 3use v6; my $n = 0; if True { $n = 7 }7⏏5  say $n␤»
17:51 TimToady std: use v6; my $n = 0; if True { $n = 7 }  say $n
17:51 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/gs8ltr6xXD line 1:␤------> 3use v6; my $n = 0; if True { $n = 7 }7⏏5  say $n␤    expecting any of:␤     horizontal whitespace␤  statement_control␤Parse fa…»
17:51 J-L Question:  Why does the version without a ';' after the closing brace fail?  It works just fine if the last line (the say() command) is on the next line.
17:51 TimToady because } serves as a statement terminator only if it's the last thing on a line
17:52 TimToady otherwise it's TTIAR
17:52 TimToady the rakudo error is LTA there...
17:53 J-L TTIAR?  LTA?
17:53 cdc Two Terms In A Row
17:53 J-L Is that an error?  Or is it done on purpose?
17:53 TimToady see S99
17:53 cdc Less Than Awesome
17:54 TimToady that is by design
17:54 TimToady TTIAR violates self-clocking
17:54 TimToady making it much more difficult to find other errors or report on them accurately
17:55 J-L As for S99, I found https://raw.githubusercontent.com/perl6/specs/master/S99-glossary.pod , but it's raw POD.  Is there another way I can read it that I don't realize?
17:56 cdc Hello TimToady, could you help me to understand how | is used in "[Zeqv] |@s».ords"?
17:56 cdc J-L: http://design.perl6.org/S99.html
17:56 TimToady | is "insert into argument list"
17:56 cdc J-L: TTIAR + self-cloking -> http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/macros-allowing-two-terms-in-a-row
17:57 TimToady otherwise @s».ords is a single argument to the reduce
17:57 TimToady and there's not much point in reducing a single argument
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17:57 bartolin_ moritz: would you mind if I add a nagios check for hack.p6c.org which looks for read only filesystems? also I'd add myself to the recipients for those nagios notifications
17:58 TimToady the tricky thing here is that a reduce of a list infix can't just slurp its arguments, or it completely flattens sublists
17:58 bartolin_ moritz: maybe the problem has nothing to do with ro file system, but we don't know yet.
17:59 TimToady so instead it effectively binds like a ** rather than a *
17:59 TimToady but that means anything like a parcel is a single argument rather than a list of lists
18:00 TimToady so the | is necessary to strip one outer layer of () implied by the single argument
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18:01 TimToady to put it another way, when you have positional arguments, you already know how parcels work
18:02 TimToady so foo (1,2,3) has a single positional argument if the signature is ($), but has 3 arguments if teh signature is (*@)
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18:03 TimToady likewise foo (1,2,3),(4,5,6) has 2 args if ($$), 4 args if ($ *@), and 6 if (*@)
18:03 TimToady if you bind to ** insteaad of *, you get 2 args again, but variadically
18:03 cdc ooohh
18:03 cdc TimToady: many thanks for your help!
18:04 cdc if I understand correctly, the reduce binds to **
18:04 TimToady we already had zip((1,2,3),(4,5,6)) working as expected when there are literal lists, but there was no way to interpolate a variable number of lists till now, which made it really hard to write a reduction over an arbitrrry number of lists without using EVAL
18:05 TimToady it's effectively **, but it is actually examining the raw arg list because it needs to optionaly decont sublists
18:06 TimToady we might be able to remove the decont after GLR, I dunno
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18:07 cdc and until then, we have to either use EVAL or |, right?
18:08 TimToady but the trap we were in was that every way of introducing a variadic lists of lists was itemizing each list, so all list infix reductions failed for variadic purposes
18:08 TimToady you will always need | to interpolate a variadic list there, I think
18:08 * cdc have to meditate a bit more on this code
18:08 TimToady again @s».ords is a single parcel, in current parlance, and will behave as a single argument
18:09 TimToady (even after it's just a sublist)
18:10 TimToady if you strip off the implicit parens inside the [Z], you break [Z] (1,2,3),(4,5,6) instead
18:11 TimToady so we really need the | dereference to distinguish ((1,2,3),(4,5,6)) from (1,2,3),(4,5,6)
18:12 cdc so can we say that "[Zeqv] |@s».ords" is the short for "[Zeqv] (@s[0].ords, @s[1].ords)"?
18:12 TimToady leave out the parens on the right
18:12 TimToady or the space :)
18:12 TimToady afk for a bit &
18:13 cdc Thanks!
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18:15 cdc m: my @s = < this test >; say [Zeqv] @s[0].ords, @s[1].ords
18:15 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«True False False False␤»
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18:24 nine_ moritz: is there some collectd or similar running on hack? How was memory usage when it hang? Maybe all those processes were swapping hard. That could keep them alive for a very long time, even after kill -9
18:24 yoleaux 25 Mar 2015 22:34Z <japhb> nine_: I just rebuilt from scratch again this afternoon, and Inline::Perl5 installed perfectly.  I don't know what changed, or if the problem is just plain flakey, but I'm happy to have it working now!
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18:28 nine_ I would also suggest doing smartctl -a on all hard disks and when it happens again, run dmesg. That should give some messages in case of a hardware problem or point to the OOM killer running
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18:31 lucas_ There is native_array.pm and native-array.pm in rakudo/src/core; the latter is empty. Is it going to be deleted?
18:31 airdisa joined #perl6
18:32 bartolin_ nine_: there is http://collect.p6c.org/ ... but we don't have data after 13:48
18:39 _edwin hi all! I have a question about moarvm:
18:39 _edwin currently the readlineintfh implementation expects readline/linenoise to return the line as a UTF-8 string
18:40 _edwin it turns out that at least on Windows linenoise does not do UTF-8
18:41 _edwin what would be the better solution: a) try to return UTF-8 from linenoise b) covert from whatever encoding linenoise returns in readlineintfh?
18:41 [Coke] yes, collectd is running.
18:41 [Coke] nine_: you could not run dmesg when it was happening.
18:44 bartolin_ I just see that collect.p6c.org is the same host as hack.p6c.org. so the missing data would fit with a ro file system. (I'm pretty sure I've seen data with nearly 100% io wait earlier -- probably data from ram which was gone with the reboot)
18:44 moritz nine_: http://collect.p6c.org/
18:45 moritz nine_: and I don't think a virtual machine has smart data
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18:48 moritz one thing I considered is moving the collectd instance either to the phyiscal host or to another virtual machine
18:50 raydiak good NQnoon #perl6
18:50 yoleaux 26 Mar 2015 13:04Z <FROGGS> raydiak: can you add a test to roast for https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/395 ?
18:51 _edwin fwiw, I'll experiment towards a) as it is more local and I have an idea how to try it (at least for the input)
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18:58 moritz bartolin_: re nagios check, please do
19:00 _edwin woohoo, I can type '{', etc., in the Rakudo REPL :)
19:08 cdc eureka!
19:08 cdc m: sub f (**@args) { for @args -> $arg { .say for $arg } }; f ((1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6))
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 5 6␤»
19:08 cdc m: sub f (**@args) { for @args -> $arg { .say for $arg } }; f |((1, 2, 3), (4, 5, 6))
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤4 5 6␤»
19:08 cdc \o/
19:08 cdc TimToady++ for the explanation and everything else!
19:10 bartolin_ moritz: I added a nagios check (for the system partition / and /home)
19:11 TimToady cdc: .say for $arg is always going to loop once
19:11 TimToady so is equivalent to $arg.say
19:12 dalek roast: 9f9fd05 | raydiak++ | S32-str/pack.t:
19:12 dalek roast: Add a test for odd-length string input to pack 'H'
19:12 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9f9fd05b77
19:14 nine_ bartolin_: a r/o file system would not cause processes to hang.
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19:17 moritz more likely: something causes lots of IO load (possibly locking, not actual reads/writes), and that's the reason that the CPUs spend their time in "wait" state *and* the reason that collect couldn't write anything to disk
19:17 moritz still, it's worth checking
19:21 bartolin_ well, maybe it's not related to the fs being ro. but so far I've seen no file which was written to after 13:50. the load did only rise slowly after 13:50 by what I've seen at collect.p6c.org
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19:38 cygx o/
19:38 FROGGS o/
19:39 cygx is it a known bug that multi MAIN(Str $foo) won't dispatch if the string happens to be numeric?
19:40 cygx ah...
19:40 cygx Str() works
19:40 cygx so not a bug?
19:49 [Coke] it's meant to process command line args, so that doesn't surprise me.
19:49 [Coke] you really can't make a numeric command line arg.
19:49 cdc cygx: sub MAIN($foo) { $foo.WHAT.say }
19:49 timotimo this is one of the places where we want an IntStr and friends
19:49 yoleaux 26 Mar 2015 22:07Z <smls> timotimo: How about this as a rudimentary start? https://gist.github.com/smls/623a9831832a3f20f9e8
19:49 cdc cygx: (Int+{orig-string[Str]})
19:50 timotimo thank you, smls
19:50 cdc when passing "3" to the script, for instance
19:52 Ulti is it possible to make a default action for a grammar?
19:53 timotimo with a fallback method you should be able to
19:53 Ulti ahh ok so it looks for the action method and its not there so calls the fallback
19:53 Ulti I'll give that a go
20:06 TimToady cygx: command line args are supposed to be run automatically through val() to intuit numerics, but that is NYI in rakudo
20:10 bartolin_ another note about hack: there was a helpful log file from atop in /root. the last data it has is from 13:49:28 and at that time everything looks very good (a few gig free ram, low load, no io wait, nearly no disk io and so on. so I bet, it was a sudden problem with disk access
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20:12 timotimo so maybe we should be streaming out log data through the network to a computer that sits on a different machine?
20:13 bartolin_ yes, I think that would be a good plan
20:17 bartolin_ I could help setting it up (but for today it's already late)
20:19 _edwin ok, the AltGr+* input problem in the Rakudo REPL is easy to fix, but looking more at linenoise, I think linenoise will need to be replaced to make Unicode work in the REPL under Windows
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20:39 timotimo god damnit linenoise :(
20:52 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 388f608 | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
20:52 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
20:52 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/388f608bdb
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21:14 * itz does the interp.o clang wait :/
21:14 muraiki hi all. sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm stuck and a noob at p6. I'm trying to use p5 modules via Inline::Perl5. I'm calling a method from a module that takes named parameters in the form foo(bar => 1, baz =>2). but for some reason it isn't seeing those params being passed
21:14 itz I assume that's the compiler's fault?
21:14 muraiki er, "I'm calling a method from an object"
21:14 muraiki in one instance I was able to wrap the params in {} and make it happy, but in this case it isn't working :(
21:15 muraiki the earlier instance was a method call as a class method, though
21:15 muraiki this is a method call on an object
21:15 Ulti muraiki you might want to put your code in a gist
21:16 Ulti nine_ was around earlier the author of Inline::Perl5
21:16 PerlJam muraiki: my guess right now is that the "list of pairs" you're creating on P6 side isn't making it across as a flattened list that P5 can understand.
21:17 PerlJam muraiki: try using foo('bar', 1, 'baz', 2) and see if that works
21:17 Ulti should be easy enough since a .list should fix that
21:17 PerlJam muraiki: also keep in mind that I could be totally wrong :)
21:18 muraiki PerlJam: that fixed it
21:22 PerlJam muraiki: you might also want to ask nine about it, in case he knows how to make it Just Work without you changing your calling style.
21:23 muraiki thanks :D
21:23 japhb masak: Where were you reading all the interesting details of the GitHub DDOS?
21:25 PerlJam muraiki: looking at the source to Inline::Perl5, it looks like it might only take a new  multi method p6_to_p5(Pair:D $value) that turns a Pair into a list of two values.
21:34 _edwin for the record, regarding linenoise: having looked now at two not-quite-readline implementations in C, I'm beginning to think that most of the line editing code for the REPL should actually be in Perl 6
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21:35 _edwin that would give a better chance for getting all the tricky Unicode stuff right, among other things
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22:04 PerlJam _edwin: make a small prototype and maybe that will encourage others to hack on it :)
22:05 _edwin I might try, but there's a lot of things I need to find my way through :)
22:06 ugexe would there be any advantage to parsing out dependencies from QAST or parse tree instead of directly parsing the perl6 source?
22:10 flussence well, you wouldn't have to directly parse the perl6 source...
22:10 PerlJam except ... how did you get the QAST or parse tree in the first place?
22:11 ugexe with Perl6.Grammar.parse
22:12 ugexe does the parse tree require the dependencies to be parsed first? i figured it was just another representation of the source code
22:13 ugexe i wasnt sure about a QAST::CompUnit but thoughtthe parse tree would work :(
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22:20 ugexe m: use Perl6::Grammar:from<NQP>; use Perl6::Actions:from<NQP>; my $*LINEPOSCACHE; my $source-code = q/use Test; my $x; $x++; say $x;/; my NQPMatch $tree = Perl6::Grammar.parse($source-code, :actions(Perl6::Actions.new())); say $tree.dump;
22:20 camelia rakudo-moar fb991b: OUTPUT«- statementlist: use Test; my $x; $x++; say $x;␤  - statement: 4 matches␤    - statement_control: use Test␤      - doc: ␤      - sym: use␤      - module_name: Test␤        - longname: Test␤          - name: Test␤            - identifier: Te…»
22:23 ugexe although, if i change use Test; to something not installed I get an error instead. so i guess that answers my question
22:24 ugexe i suppose it could still be useful for a module installer when dealing with installing the sub modules
22:24 Akagi201 joined #perl6
22:24 ugexe the order to build the modules in
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22:26 brrt \o #perl6
22:27 * _edwin created a pull-request for fixing the input of '{' etc. in the Rakudo REPL on Windows (against MoarVM/linenoise)
22:30 * _edwin -> sleep
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23:17 raydiak ugexe: problem is, our parse time and compile time are not separate...e.g. what happens if a slang is used? can't parse the rest until the slang is compiled
23:18 raydiak thus "nothing can parse Perl except perl"...b/c you have to actually compile to be able to parse
23:20 raydiak back to afk
23:24 masak parse time is a part of compile time.
23:25 masak even in languages where things are more separable.
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23:36 masak 'night, #perl6
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