Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-04-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:25 dalek roast: 13f03e8 | skids++ | S04-statements/if.t:
00:25 dalek roast: Add tests for result of conditional statements (10 tests, two rakudo todos)
00:25 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/13f03e8c14
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01:41 dalek roast: 97e2405 | skids++ | S04-statements/do.t:
01:41 dalek roast: Add some tests for do block result values.
01:41 dalek roast: These are in regions of rast that are already fudged.
01:41 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/97e24054ba
01:41 dalek roast: a2a151b | skids++ | S04-statements/do.t:
01:41 dalek roast: Adjust plan for prevous commit
01:41 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a2a151b0db
01:50 atweiden m: sub deref(%h, *@k) is rw { my $h := %h; $h := $h{$_} for @k; $h }; deref(my %x, <one two three>) = 42; say %x.perl
01:50 camelia rakudo-moar c4beed: OUTPUT«{:one({:two({:three(42)})})}<>␤»
01:51 atweiden why does deref need `is rw`?
01:53 raydiak because you want to be able to assign to the thing it returns
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02:59 dalek specs: a095cc4 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
02:59 dalek specs: Fix a couple corruptions in previous commit
02:59 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a095cc4cd9
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: 384b661 | hoelzro++ | / (6 files):
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: Remove references to readlineint_fh
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint:
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: This corresponds to recent changes in MoarVM, in the no-moar-linenoise
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: branch.
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint:
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: I haven't removed readlineintfh from the Parrot stage 0 stuff, because
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: the tests are currently failing, and I don't want to bork Parrot worse
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: than it already is.
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/384b661a42
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: 9158824 | hoelzro++ | src/HLL/Compiler.nqp:
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: Restore prompt to REPL
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9158824404
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: 6a06631 | hoelzro++ | src/HLL/Compiler.nqp:
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: Break reading of lines out into a helper method
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6a06631d74
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: 886c23c | hoelzro++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: DON'T MERGE ME Bump MoarVM version
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/886c23c60d
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: 6ec6227 | hoelzro++ | src/HLL/Compiler.nqp:
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: Preserve interactive eval context as an attribute of the compiler
03:00 dalek nqp/no-readlineint: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6ec6227d5e
03:01 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 16 commits to rakudo/tab-completion by hoelzro
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05:09 dalek roast: bca773f | skids++ | S04-statements/for.t:
05:09 dalek roast: Add a few tests and fudges for result-values of for loops
05:09 dalek roast: Add comment to an RT test to mark it for fix when Nil vs () gets fixed
05:09 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/bca773f6f1
05:13 dalek rakudo/nom: d26daac | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
05:13 dalek rakudo/nom: notice when a sigil can't parse what's after
05:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d26daac328
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05:46 dtscode [/-\_/-\/-\/-\/-\/-\/-\/-\/-\/-\/-\/-\/\]
05:46 dtscode oops
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06:31 nwc10 [\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/\o/]
06:38 jnthn morning, #perl6
06:38 cdc o/ jnthn
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06:39 vendethiel computer, messages.
06:39 yoleaux 20 Apr 2015 22:35Z <eli-se> vendethiel: https://gist.github.com/rig​htfold/5b5ac73aaaf0d9ccd8bd ;)
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06:55 masak morning, #perl6
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06:55 brrt morning masak, #perl6
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07:01 FROGGS morning
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07:23 sergot morning \o
07:24 FROGGS o/
07:24 dtscode o/
07:29 [ptc] jnthn++ # blog post
07:30 [ptc] jnthn: btw: you meant the 2015.04 release, not the 2014.04 release, right?
07:30 jnthn uh, yes
07:31 jnthn fixed, thanks
07:31 [ptc] no probs :-)
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07:42 FROGGS jnthn++
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07:57 brrt jnthn++
07:58 brrt i somewhat doubt, now, that jnthn will have 5 months of work on the tasks he set out for the grant :-)
07:59 masak you doubt it's that much, or that little?
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08:01 brrt well, i'm just incredibly impressed by the pace
08:04 masak brrt: we've put jnthn in an isolation tank in a foreign country. it seems to have worked.
08:06 brrt :-D
08:06 RabidGravy just tracking down the modules in the META.list that don't appear on modules.perl.org
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08:13 eli-se Hello, world!
08:13 masak eli-se! \o/
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08:28 dalek doc: f810ab2 | (Heiko Jansen)++ | lib/Type/Failure.pod:
08:28 dalek doc: Use correct method name within its section
08:28 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f810ab253a
08:28 dalek doc: 049c71a | niner++ | lib/Type/Failure.pod:
08:28 dalek doc: Merge pull request #75 from heikojansen/patch-1
08:28 dalek doc:
08:28 dalek doc: Use correct method name within its section
08:28 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/049c71acce
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08:33 eli-se is it possible to print the instructions a Perl 6 expression is compiled to?
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08:33 RabidGravy is the build-project-list.pl being used to make the modules.perl.org the one in the gh-pages branch?
08:34 eli-se like the dis module in Python
08:34 jnthn eli-se: You can compile it into a .moarvm or .jar file and then dump the bytecode.
08:34 jnthn moar --dump somefile.moarvm
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08:35 eli-se jnthn: is that human-readable or do I need a hex editor and decipher the bytes manually?
08:35 jnthn --dump gives you human readable
08:35 eli-se nice, let's see
08:37 eli-se how do you compile it?
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08:37 jnthn perl6-m --target=mbc --output=foo.moarvm -e "say 'hello world'"
08:38 eli-se wonderful! thanks!
08:39 wollmers m: my $cp = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323, 0x0307); say $cp.Str.chars;
08:39 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«1␤»
08:39 jnthn eli-se: You may want to put the code you're interested in into a sub thingy() { ... } so you can spot it amongst the boilerplate.
08:41 wollmers m: my $cp = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323, 0x0307); .say for $cp.Str.chars.list>>.uniname;
08:41 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«START OF HEADING␤»
08:42 eli-se I wonder how instruction sets are designed.
08:43 moritz eli-se: you should talk to the Mill Architecture folks :-)
08:43 eli-se moritz: funny; my VM is called "mill"
08:43 wollmers m: my $cp = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323, 0x0307); .say for $cp.Str.list>>.uniname;
08:43 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«should eventually be unreachable␤  in sub uniname at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:9032␤  in sub uniname at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:9031␤  in method uniname at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4751␤  in method dispatch:<hyper> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1443␤  in b…»
08:44 jnthn Str.list gives you a list with one Str
08:44 eli-se the instruction set is minimal, though. e.g. arity check is emitted by compiler as push argcount, push integer, compare and then conditional jump
08:44 wollmers m: my $cp = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323, 0x0307); .say $cp.Str.chars;
08:44 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/qQFTnPCpu0␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/qQFTnPCpu0:1␤------> 3 = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323, 0x0307); .say7⏏5 $cp.Str.chars;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        state…»
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08:45 wollmers m: my $cp = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323, 0x0307); say $cp.Str.chars;
08:45 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«1␤»
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08:46 jnthn If you want to get back to a list of codepoints then .NFC or .NFD on a Str will do it
08:47 wollmers m: my $a = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323, 0x0307).Str; say $a.chars;
08:47 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«1␤»
08:48 wollmers m: my $a = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323); my $b = Uni.new(0x0307).Str; say $a.chars;say $b.chars;
08:48 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«Method 'chars' not found for invocant of class 'Uni'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/1qLo_VxW8X:1␤␤»
08:48 wollmers m: my $a = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323).Str; my $b = Uni.new(0x0307).Str; say $a.chars;say $b.chars;
08:48 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«1␤1␤»
08:50 wollmers m: my $a = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323).Str; my $b = Uni.new(0x0307).Str; my $c = $a ~ $b;say $a.chars;say $b.chars;say $c.chars;
08:50 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«1␤1␤2␤»
08:50 wollmers m: my $a = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323).Str; my $b = Uni.new(0x0307).Str; my $c = $a ~ $b;say $a.chars;say $b.chars;say $c.Str.chars;
08:50 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«1␤1␤2␤»
08:50 jnthn And that 2 exposes one of the things that is NYI :)
08:51 jnthn (Should also come out as 1.)
08:51 wollmers jnthn: that's what I tested;-)
08:51 jnthn :)
08:52 moritz wollmers: now turn that into tests in https://github.com/perl6/roast/
08:52 wollmers jnthn: one of the others NYI is properties of NFG?
08:52 lizmat Berlin -> Cologne &
08:53 jnthn wollmers: Depends. Some bits work (the ones exercises in S15-nfg/regex.t)
08:53 jnthn *exercised
08:54 jnthn m: my $a = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323, 0x0307).Str; say $a ~~ /^\w$/;
08:54 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«「Ḍ̇␤»
08:54 jnthn m: my $a = Uni.new(0x0044, 0x0323, 0x0307).Str; say $a ~~ /^<:L>$/;
08:54 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«「Ḍ̇␤»
08:55 wollmers moritz: ACK, maybe someone can review, agree, disagree or rediscuss my notes at the end of S-15
08:58 wollmers moritz: this was where I got stuck 2008 (defining the testcases for NFG). Now jnthn++ such work makes more sense.
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09:00 jnthn wollmers: Is that the bit under "final considerations"?
09:01 moritz wollmers: I fear that most of the Unicody intricacies are lost on me :/
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09:06 wollmers jnthn: Yea, not all of it. This commit https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/8​702be6188b4f85bf031d39ec398bc8e09a80195​#diff-6c777d1323dce061e59e325c870e4679
09:07 jnthn wollmers: The "properties of graphemes" thing do at the moment, where implemented, take on the properties of the base character, which is indeed taken after putting it in NFC form.
09:08 jnthn So the bit around 273 matches up with what's implemented and tested, and TimToady seems to think that's sane.
09:08 jnthn The concatenation bit I agree needs dealing with, just didn't get there yet.
09:09 wollmers moritz: now, 7 years after 2008, we have have sane properties in Perl5 and in Perl6. So I can get back, defining test cases.
09:09 moritz wollmers: great
09:10 jnthn As to the formal definition thing: maybe sync it with https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob​/master/src/strings/normalize.c#L425
09:11 jnthn Which is defined as an extension to canonical composition.
09:11 jnthn (And so tries to be couched in its language)
09:19 dalek modules.perl6.org: 022f0df | (Jonathan Stowe)++ | web/lib/P6Project/Info.pm:
09:19 dalek modules.perl6.org: Transitionally support $meta->{support}->{source} and
09:19 dalek modules.perl6.org: $meta->{source-url}
09:19 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/022f0df170
09:19 wollmers jnthn: I am still not completely sure, if my idea of inheriting the properties from the first NFC/NFD character makes sense. Will try to find negative cases.
09:20 RabidGravy there, still five errors in building the modules list but a bit better
09:22 RabidGravy one appears to have gone away, one has weird source URL which I have sent PR for and the remaining three there is something weird about their repos
09:32 RabidGravy right off out to get the car cleaned :-\
09:42 dalek perl6-examples: ed4e187 | paultcochrane++ | categories/cookbook/10subr​outines/10-01arguments.pl:
09:42 dalek perl6-examples: Add missing author name
09:42 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/ed4e187617
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09:46 [ptc] sorry in advance for the dim question: will META6.json supersede META.info?  Or should the spec simply be updated to replace META6.json with META.info?
09:47 [ptc] also, should there be a copyright year in a module's metadata?
09:48 masak why would a copyright year need to be in the module's metadata (as opposed to just in a comment in the code, or the LICENSE file)?
09:49 [ptc] masak: well, Dist::Zill does it, so I just wondered
09:50 masak I'm curious what that information *could* be used for. I don't see it.
09:51 [ptc] I'm not saying it *should* be there, was just wondering, that's all.
09:51 [ptc] I did mention dim questions ;-)
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10:08 masak [ptc]: it's a fine question. there might well be a use.
10:08 masak I mean "copyright year" does sound like metadata. I'm not sure what consumer would be interested in it, is all.
10:09 [ptc] masak: was in the middle of updating a module which has a p5 and a p6 version and wondered if the dzil 'copyright_year' would be meaningful in META.info
10:09 [ptc] masak: other than probably to know at a glance how up to date the module is?
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10:10 masak not convinced by that usage ;)
10:10 [ptc] me neither :-)
10:10 masak glance at the LICENSE file instead ;)
10:10 [ptc] doesn't the LICENSE file simply contain the text of the Artistic License or the GPL?
10:10 masak or the README, or whatever.
10:11 [ptc] then the copyright date doesn't necessarily match up.
10:11 [ptc] yeah, or that
10:11 masak the human-readable metadata, not the machine-readable metadata.
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10:28 andreoss are state variables for infinite lists broken?
10:28 yoleaux 20 Apr 2015 15:49Z <flussence> andreoss: .is-prime calls down to mp_prime_is_prime() in libtommath, so you're going to have no chance of beating it for speed using perl6 code.
10:29 andreoss Im getting strage errors with lazy state http://pastebin.com/3UAX16tG
10:29 jnthn Don't see how they'd interact strangely. A stage variable just keeps the container initialized the first time around, and re-instates it next time.
10:29 jnthn Oh
10:29 jnthn Don't use state vars with binding.
10:30 jnthn It's the contaienr that's kept, and if you re-bind it...
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10:31 andreoss the error i get is about infix:<>> which is misleading
10:31 andreoss state vars cannot be lazy lists at all?
10:32 jnthn Well, for your case I don't get why you are using state, when "my constant" would be better.
10:33 Ven o/, #perl6
10:33 jnthn Maybe after the GLR, you'll be able to use assignment there and have it not try to evaluate the infinite thing, and then the issue goes away.
10:34 jnthn o/ Ven
10:34 andreoss my constant within sub definition is kept between sub calls?
10:34 jnthn Yes, constant = BEGIN time
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10:35 jnthn So, once ever. state is once per closure.
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10:36 andreoss thanks
10:38 Ven I was working on sixcheck, and I realized I had wrongly assumed f(|x) would flatten for both positionals and named, but it seems it's not true.
10:39 Ven Is there anything wrong with f(|@a.grep(Pair), |@a.grep({$_ !~~ Pair})? I'm probably missing something.
10:39 Ven (also, this makes me wish we had grep-not :-). Since even * !~~ wouldn't work)
10:39 jnthn You need to flatten a hash
10:39 jnthn Not a list of pairs
10:40 jnthn |%(@a.grep(Pair)) or so
10:42 Ven m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, a => 5; sub f($x, $y, $z, :$a) { say $a.perl }; f(|@a.grep(Pair), |@a.grep({$_ !~~ Pair})) # I thought it didn't
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 3 arguments but got 4␤  in sub f at /tmp/YQlPBotZMN:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/YQlPBotZMN:1␤␤»
10:42 Ven m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, a => 5; sub f($x, $y, $z, :$a) { say $a.perl }; f(|%@a.grep(Pair), |@a.grep({$_ !~~ Pair})) # I stand corrected :)
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 3 arguments but got 5␤  in sub f at /tmp/LmSqtP1aW1:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/LmSqtP1aW1:1␤␤»
10:43 Ven m: my @a = 1, 2, 3, a => 5; sub f($x, $y, $z, :$a) { say $a.perl }; f(|@a.grep(Pair).hash, |@a.grep({$_ !~~ Pair})) # duh.
10:43 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«5␤»
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10:43 Ven I forgot % would apply to @a before .grep
10:45 jnthn Precedence bites :)
10:45 Ven right :). Does grep-not seem like a good thing to have?
10:46 Ven In this case, I first tried @a.grep(Pair), @a.grep(* !~~ Pair) and it didn't warn – it only did when I tried it in the REPL later for some reason...
10:46 jnthn I think * !~~ Pair should work, since I think we made * ~~ Pair work recently
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10:51 Ven jnthn: right, I'll upgrade my rakudo then. it's around 2 weeks old, and iirc that commit isn't that old
10:53 masak no, I don't think we need a .grep-not
10:54 Ven masak: why not :)?
10:56 masak it seems a really low-powered feature for something we can already do in many other ways.
10:56 masak we have a ! metaoperator for exactly this reason, so we won't have to invent .x-not methods
10:56 Ven we can't .grep(!Pair)
10:57 jnthn * !~~ Pair ain't so long
10:59 masak Ven: define your own operator ¡ that means * !~~ $term
11:00 Ven no unicode in my world :)
11:00 Ven that didn't made sense
11:00 Ven no characters I don't have on my keyboard :P.
11:01 masak I used to think like that.
11:03 Ven (coding in agda is an exception to that rule)
11:04 Ven masak: well, why did your opinion change?
11:08 colomon for me, it was when I discovered how easy it was to type characters not on the keyboard.  :)
11:11 masak what colomon said.
11:11 masak it stopped being a good excuse for me.
11:12 * colomon also programmed his editor to convert the Texas version of some of the Unicode operators he used most often to the proper Unicode version at a keystroke.
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11:41 Ven masak: I still work on window regularly :)
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11:55 nine What's a Texas version of an operator?
11:56 nwc10 an ASCII equivalent to the non-ASCII version
11:56 nwc10 I'm (a) not sure if it's in the glosarry
11:56 nwc10 (b) not sure what it would take to have a glossary-aware infobot here
11:56 nine Ah, it's right there
11:56 nine http://syn.perl6.org/S99.html#Texas_operator
11:56 nwc10 yoleaux: Texas?
11:57 nwc10 yoleaux: Texas operator?
11:57 nwc10 yoleaux: botsnack?
11:57 kaare_ joined #perl6
11:58 moritz >> is the "texas" version of »
11:59 nwc10 why is Texas more ASCII than the rest of the USA?
11:59 moritz in Texas, everything is bigger
12:05 Ulti joined #perl6
12:05 Ulti nooo lost ops
12:05 Ulti also I have follow.pl loaded
12:05 xfix joined #perl6
12:05 xfix joined #perl6
12:05 Ulti :'(
12:08 ggoebel joined #perl6
12:08 masak Ulti: nice to see you too ;)
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12:51 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 4a33a6a | coke++ | log/ (2 files):
12:51 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
12:51 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/4a33a6ac9c
12:52 leont joined #perl6
12:54 [Coke] S99:Texas_Operator
12:54 [Coke] aww.
13:03 Ven joined #perl6
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14:03 * mephinet is just reading jnthn's post and is also wandering what list>> means...
14:04 jnthn m: say (-1, 5, -6)>>.abs.perl
14:04 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«(1, 5, 6)␤»
14:04 mephinet I know understood that it's a Texas operator, but what does it do? I can't find it here: http://doc.perl6.org/language/operators
14:04 brrt` i think it's the hyper operator
14:04 brrt` m: ('a','b','c')>>.uc.say;
14:04 camelia rakudo-moar d26daa: OUTPUT«A B C␤»
14:04 jnthn It's a map that may do the method calls in parallel if it things it's worth it
14:05 jnthn (But gives the results back in the same order as the increments)
14:05 mephinet it shows up in the "operator precedence" chapter, but it has no mention later on.
14:05 brrt` hmm... what's the unordered version then?
14:05 mephinet jnthn: ah, cool, thanks1
14:06 mephinet pretty cool, actually ;-)
14:06 jnthn brrt`: race map ...
14:07 mephinet the whole "hyper" thingie isn't mentioned in the operators list at all?
14:08 mephinet here it is! http://design.perl6.org/S03.html#Hyper_operators
14:12 moritz and where is it missing?
14:18 jnthn moritz: I think mephinet meant in doc.perl6.org
14:18 timotimo o/
14:19 mephinet maybe I was looking at the wrong place, but I expected an entry for that in the http://doc.perl6.org/language/operators
14:20 brrt` doesn't seem unreasonable to me
14:20 timotimo indeed, i'll add it to the WANTED doc
14:21 Ven joined #perl6
14:21 moritz mephinet: it's not unreasonable; there's just the "known to be incomplete" part in the footer :/
14:21 dalek doc: deb4ebb | timo++ | WANTED:
14:21 dalek doc: add hyper operator wantedness
14:21 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/deb4ebbca7
14:21 jnthn Also yesterday I noticed Failure has nice documentation on Failure semantics, but the fail sub is missing. Could also go in WANTED.
14:22 timotimo [wantedness intensifies]
14:22 skids joined #perl6
14:23 Ven I think it'd be amazing for the learnx to go over things "lightly" then defer to the perl6 faq for more
14:23 mephinet timotimo++
14:24 timotimo do you really mean the faq?
14:25 vendethiel joined #perl6
14:25 Ven no, I mean doc.perl6.org*
14:25 mephinet I meant: thanks for adding it to the wanted list
14:25 dalek specs: 64b47f8 | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
14:25 dalek specs: pouring into the glossary Danaides barrel
14:25 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/64b47f8a30
14:26 rurban joined #perl6
14:33 brrt` \quit
14:36 psch hey #perl6 \o
14:37 RabidGravy yo
14:37 psch i have #116280 fixed with special casing for Inf and NaN, but i'm not sure it's really that sensible, considering #61602 (and https://github.com/perl6/specs/issues/27 ) exist
14:38 psch (also i like the "extensible sprintf" idea, fwiw)
14:40 RabidGravy anyone got a feeling whether there should be a page for "event driven"/"concurrent"/"reactive" (or whatever we call it) programming on http://doc.perl6.org/language.html ?
14:41 jnthn RabidGravy: Probably.
14:41 * jnthn would be open to writing such a page at some point
14:42 RabidGravy you busy, I'll kick it off but it'll probably need some review as I'm a bit fuzzy on the guts
14:43 jnthn *nod*
14:43 jnthn I'll be improving the guts in the coming months also. :)
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14:52 RabidGravy jnthn, which of those is the established terminology, BTW?
14:54 jnthn RabidGravy: They're all established in some sense but with slightly different meanings. :)
14:54 jnthn (And not everyone agrees on the meanings.)
14:54 jnthn Concurrency is the most general thing.
14:54 skids concurrent is probably the more overarching of the three.
14:54 skids jinx
14:55 jnthn All fools think the same.
14:55 jnthn No wait, the great minds one... :P
14:55 RabidGravy :)
14:55 jnthn The Supplies stuff is very much like the Reactive Extensions, as seen in .Net, Java, JavaScript, etc.
14:55 jnthn But with a Perl design :)
14:56 arnsholt jnthn: OOC, what's your plan for ord() where the character in question is an NFG synthetic grapheme?
14:56 timotimo you can't ord that
14:56 timotimo ord would force you into some "regular" composed form
14:57 jnthn arnsholt: That's unresolved as of yet; we may define .ord as a codepoint operation though, so it gets you the first codepoint as if you had NFG
14:57 timotimo hmm
14:57 jnthn and .ords may go away now given we have .NFC/.NFD and friends.
14:57 arnsholt Yeah, that makes sense
14:57 jnthn We should not leak the syntheitcs out
14:57 jnthn Because if we do and we start out with a global scheme, then someone, somewhere, will have the silly idea of comparing them.
14:58 arnsholt I remember reading an older revision of the Unicode synopse which said that ord() could return negative codes, which would just give us such a leaky abstraction
14:58 arnsholt Yeah, it's just gonna end in terrible, terrible tears
14:58 jnthn And then we'll break this great evil on darkpan if we were to switch to a local scheme.
14:58 jnthn So yeah, better imho to just not let the problem happen.
14:59 jnthn I'm not quite sure what people's use cases for .ord usually are.
14:59 jnthn Oh, I did have one in C# at some point but...it was ASCII-centric too.
14:59 timotimo working with pieces of string "bytewise"
15:00 jnthn timotimo: Buf! :P
15:00 jnthn Or Uni :)
15:00 timotimo yeah
15:00 timotimo but ordat!
15:00 jnthn oh gosh :)
15:00 timotimo doesn't have to convert the whole thing
15:00 jnthn Do we have that? :)
15:00 timotimo (except of course god damn combining characters!)
15:00 timotimo only if you nqp:: that :)
15:01 timotimo because you want to write a fast json parser perhaps
15:01 jnthn Not sure we do :)
15:01 Ven joined #perl6
15:01 jnthn If you're that speed-obsessed you're probably better working with codepoints (read, native integers) and pulling bits out as Str :)
15:01 timotimo yeah
15:02 timotimo there's still room for improvement in JSON::Fast
15:02 timotimo like making junction unfolding work again
15:03 tadzik hey, contents of feather disks are gone now, right?
15:03 timotimo except for the backups, of course
15:03 tadzik hm
15:04 tadzik I lost access to my /home on my laptop
15:04 timotimo uh-oh
15:04 tadzik and everything I can think of that matters is backed up somewhere
15:04 tadzik except the one big piece of work I did and never pushed to github: my bachelor's thesis program
15:04 timotimo that can't be important
15:04 timotimo ;(
15:04 tadzik I found some copy from April 29, which is probably as good as it gets, but I remember that I kept a backup on feather too
15:04 timotimo it used to be on feather?
15:05 timotimo mhm, mhm
15:06 timotimo well, "throw one away", right? :S
15:06 timotimo the backup situation of my desktop and laptop is pretty terrible
15:07 tadzik yeah :/
15:07 tadzik the reviewer from the university got a copy on a CD too
15:07 timotimo thanks to btrfs COW and subvolumes, i could theoretically build one backup every 10 minutes :)
15:07 tadzik I'm pretty sure he never tried took it out of the envelope, but he may still have it...
15:08 skids .oO(A file recovery app that outputs Zen platitudes.)
15:08 timotimo i think i ought to buy a new hard driveto store backups on
15:13 gfldex joined #perl6
15:18 itz_ with btrfs you *need* that backup every 10 mins ;)
15:18 timotimo hah
15:18 timotimo i haven't had problems with btrfs yet
15:18 timotimo i only recently heard "oh gosh, btrfs is so unstable, how do you even manage?"
15:19 itz_ it lost all my data a year or two back but maybe its better now
15:20 timotimo oh
15:20 itz_ that was a power loss on SSD
15:20 timotimo all the data :(
15:23 tadzik my phone runs btrfs
15:23 timotimo neato
15:23 tadzik it works so far :P
15:24 timotimo how far away from home did it work yet? :P
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16:08 japhb tadzik: What distro are you running on your phone?
16:09 colomon huh.  latest Rakudo seems to have broken the command line parser?  Seems like it’s throwing away quotes and splitting things up by spaces, so  —artist=“Sol Foster” because artist = Sol and another argument Foster
16:10 colomon … hmm, except that’s not consistent with what I’m seeing
16:13 rindolf joined #perl6
16:13 colomon arrrgh
16:14 eli-se joined #perl6
16:14 TimToady um, shell not smart about smart quotes?
16:14 colomon no
16:14 colomon that’s not a cut-n-paste,  in my shell it’s right
16:15 colomon At the moment, I’m starting to worry that it’s a pre-comp bug...
16:15 TimToady shouldn't you worry about that before it's compiled?  <ba dump bumb>
16:16 * TimToady goes to get another cuppa in hopes it will tamp down the free association
16:17 colomon https://gist.github.com/co​lomon/d91cf51c0ca3ec6a636f
16:18 colomon so, as far as I can tell those should both be the same version of the source.
16:19 PerlJam same perl6?  Maybe one of them is old
16:19 hoelzro o/ #perl6
16:19 masak \o
16:19 timotimo orzleoh \o
16:20 colomon and my command line arguments are the same, the only difference is one uses perl6 and calls the script, the other uses the panda-installed version
16:20 colomon This is perl6 version 2015.03-321-gaa99dd4 built on MoarVM version 2015.03-133-ga300558
16:20 colomon how do i precompile by hand?
16:21 timotimo perl6 --target=mbc --output=...moarvm foo.pm
16:21 TimToady --ll-exception might also tell you moar
16:22 timotimo in theory, a problem within the pregenerated launcher scripts could exist
16:22 timotimo oh
16:22 timotimo colomon: you're using --author?
16:22 colomon yes
16:22 colomon that’s not the (entire) problem
16:22 timotimo that could be interpreted by the launcher to be a matcher for which module to load
16:23 timotimo and it'd likely swallow it up
16:23 colomon here’s the latest, author-free version of the issue https://gist.github.com/co​lomon/d9afb74d910000d0d44c
16:24 colomon note that the launcher (?) based one isn’t properly handling spaces in a filename, but the perl6 launched one is.
16:25 colomon and I switched to a panda-look-based version of the source, which should mean it’s exactly the same as the panda installed version.
16:25 TimToady does someone have a $* instead of a "$@" somewhere?
16:27 PerlJam colomon: what OS are you on?
16:27 colomon Ubuntu
16:28 arnsholt TimToady's suggestion sounds plausible, I think
16:28 colomon my code is sub MAIN(*@files, :$title?, :$artist?, :$album?, :$track?)
16:29 TimToady you could print out @*ARGS at the top to see if it's getting to P6 correctly, since MAIN doesn't run till later
16:29 colomon also, wasn’t —author, it was —artist
16:30 timotimo mhm
16:30 TimToady but I'm betting something is splitting the args before your program ever starts
16:30 colomon TimToady++ (though that’s harder to do with panda-installed stuff)
16:31 japhb The perl6 wrapper shell script?
16:31 TimToady I did a recursive grep for '\$\*$' in rakudo's directory and only found configuration and 3rdparty files that had $* at the end of a lint
16:31 PerlJam the wrapper uses "$@" though
16:31 TimToady *line
16:32 japhb PerlJam: That's good at least.
16:33 TimToady why does the could-not-open error message still have backslashes?
16:33 PerlJam TimToady: that's why I was asking about the OS, I was thinking it was a Macism or Windowsism or something
16:33 colomon TimToady: yes, it’s splitting the args before my program starts.
16:34 colomon me-tags "$@"
16:34 geekosaur if this is the freedesktop stuff then it's braindead and you won;t be able to use quoting to make it behave
16:34 colomon errr… huh
16:34 PerlJam colomon: could you have *another* indirection besides just the normal perl6 wrapper?
16:34 colomon PerlJam: it’s panda doing the indirection
16:35 TimToady if it's splitting the args, how is Taglib getting the whole filename, with extra backslashes?
16:35 colomon https://gist.github.com/co​lomon/026184091012bf436995
16:35 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
16:36 PerlJam colomon: what's in /home/colomon/.rakudobrew/bin/../moar-HEAD​/install/share/perl6/site/bin/rename-tags  ?
16:36 colomon here’s the arg dump:
16:36 colomon https://gist.github.com/co​lomon/b79b23f9852f40668b2f
16:37 eli-se hi
16:37 PerlJam eli-se: greetings
16:38 colomon PerlJam: https://gist.github.com/co​lomon/be51d3c88133393ced5a is the file you have requested
16:38 FROGGS[mobile] colomon: the wrapper in site/bin is generated by CUR::Installation
16:39 TimToady what happens if you use ~/Albums/Jerry_McCarthy/"00001-A Blast of Reels from Jerry McCarthy of Scartaglin.mp3" instead?
16:39 colomon just in case anyone is wondering what the file is https://soundcloud.com/patri​ck-cavanagh-2/mccarthy_reels
16:40 colomon TimToady: that works “normally"
16:40 geekosaur you aren't re-quoting stuff for that shell call
16:40 PerlJam aye, what geekosaur said
16:40 * geekosaur used to ab use quotemeta often as Q) for that in perl5 :)
16:41 colomon that’s not “me”, that’s panda / rakudo’s script installation code
16:41 PerlJam sure, but that's bound to be the problem : )
16:41 PerlJam er, :)
16:42 FROGGS[mobile] colomon: feel free to provide patches
16:42 TimToady use run instead?
16:42 colomon FROGGS[mobile]: :p
16:42 FROGGS[mobile] :o)
16:43 FROGGS[mobile] or at least ticket it...
16:43 colomon where?
16:43 FROGGS[mobile] RT
16:44 colomon it’s a rakudobug and not a pandabug?
16:44 FROGGS[mobile] aye
16:45 * colomon is somewhat suspicious that figuring out how to coherently describe the bug might be harder than fixing it.
16:46 geekosaur "strings that may contain spaces or shell special characters are being intepolated directly into a shell call with no quoting applied"
16:46 tadzik japhb: SailfishOS
16:46 TimToady there appears to be no reason it should be using shell rather than run
16:46 TimToady and run would bypass the shell reparse
16:47 TimToady someone just got lazy
16:47 colomon afk # midday nomming
16:47 geekosaur indeed
16:51 dalek specs: b26bc2c | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
16:51 dalek specs: more entries to S99
16:51 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/b26bc2cea9
16:51 TimToady looks like it comes from ./src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm
16:57 TimToady heh, that line also says "exit shell(...).exit;"
16:58 geekosaur yes, I was wondering if that thought it was recovering the exit-status part (as opposed to signal part) of the result or something
16:59 TimToady is this something that is tested by the roast, such that if I specutalatively change it to a run, it woudl be spectested?
17:01 TimToady well, shell is definitely wrong there, in any case
17:02 TimToady testing...
17:02 TimToady well, spectesting, dunno if that actually tests this code
17:03 TimToady also didn't bother to remove the redundant exit
17:03 TimToady if it is redundant, which it mightn't be
17:03 TimToady but if it's not, .exit is badly named
17:06 TimToady badly named attribute, actually, should probably be $.exitcode
17:06 Foxcool joined #perl6
17:07 timotimo Cool totally needs a method exit
17:08 timotimo 0.exit, yeah!
17:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 2394bf2 | TimToady++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
17:09 dalek rakudo/nom: missed a Can'tMeta -> CannotMeta
17:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2394bf2375
17:12 masak oops, sorry about that.
17:12 masak TimToady++
17:12 masak as your friendly neighborhood release manager, I'd like to remind people about the upcoming release.
17:12 masak it's on Thursday.
17:13 masak please tend to the ChangeLog, the ROADMAP, and each other. :>
17:13 TimToady oops, wrong message on that message
17:13 TimToady that was the shell->run fix
17:13 masak quick, --amend while no-one is looking! :P
17:13 * masak is such a bad influence
17:14 * TimToady has had terrible luck with --amend
17:14 masak hehe
17:14 masak I liked --amend so much, I made it a subcommand locally
17:14 masak as in `git amend <files>`
17:15 TimToady is there something you have to do after that to actually include the files?
17:15 TimToady 'cause when I do that, the amendments don't actually get checked in
17:15 masak TimToady: yes, same principle with `git add` before `git commit --amend` as before an ordinary commit.
17:16 konsolebox joined #perl6
17:16 TimToady doesn't look very principled to me
17:16 masak either that, or you list the files explicitly, as in `git commit --amend <files>`
17:16 masak dinner &
17:21 dalek rakudo/nom: 3b80788 | TimToady++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
17:21 dalek rakudo/nom: don't use shell where run is more better
17:21 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3b80788609
17:21 dalek rakudo/nom: 013cc02 | TimToady++ | /:
17:21 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into nom
17:21 dalek rakudo/nom:
17:21 dalek rakudo/nom: Seems like I need to merge to get an amendment upstream.  I could be rwong...
17:21 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/013cc02990
17:22 TimToady I think my 'gp' alias that rebases blows away amendments
17:23 TimToady is probably what I've been running into repeatedly
17:23 vendethiel joined #perl6
17:24 TimToady colomon: I think I fixed it for you, but I dunno how upstream that fix is wrt your pandafication.
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: 5e42407 | (Heiko Jansen)++ | perl6_pass_rates.csv:
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: Remove partial data from incomplete run
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data:
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: Once more with feel^-H^-H^-H backspace....
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/5e42407f9a
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: d66e089 | (Will Coleda)++ | perl6_pass_rates.csv:
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: Merge pull request #7 from heikojansen/patch-1
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data:
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: Remove partial data from incomplete run
17:27 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/d66e089fc6
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17:34 Sysaxed joined #perl6
17:35 Sysaxed so Larry's talk is _still_ not there, right?...
17:37 Ven Sysaxed: I think it's one of *these* talks. (a dead talk)
17:37 Ven I think nearly a third of all the talks were not recorded "correctly"
17:37 Sysaxed :(
17:37 Sysaxed ehh, well, okay
17:38 Sysaxed still I wonder how did that happen
17:38 Sysaxed I've read their article about recording stuff
17:38 Ven no idea, but it's pretty sad. A *ton* of recording were lost :(
17:38 Sysaxed still I don't understand how something could be missing
17:39 lizmat joined #perl6
17:40 dalek perl6-examples: 06b1612 | paultcochrane++ | categories/perlmonks/weighted-roll-731696.pl:
17:40 dalek perl6-examples: [perlmonks] fix typo in title
17:40 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/06b161231f
17:40 Sysaxed and no one bothered to record it with a smartphone or something, right? :)
17:40 RabidGravy oh well
17:40 Sysaxed however, Larry's talk is not the only video I'd love to see, eh
17:43 Sysaxed I remember somebody said on this channel "your talk is currently being processed"...
17:43 Sysaxed several months ago
17:44 telex joined #perl6
17:45 timotimo ;(
17:45 Sysaxed cannot find it in the logs though
17:45 Rounin joined #perl6
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17:49 dalek doc: 94a6654 | paultcochrane++ | util/missing-methods.p6:
17:49 dalek doc: Remove perl6 shebang
17:49 dalek doc:
17:49 dalek doc: It's not necessary in the missing-methods utility script; one can simply
17:49 dalek doc: call the script with perl6.
17:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/94a6654588
17:49 dalek doc: ef84a44 | paultcochrane++ | / (3 files):
17:49 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
17:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ef84a44eb2
17:49 dalek doc: f6a1eb5 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Type/Mu.pod:
17:49 dalek doc: Document Mu.take()
17:49 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f6a1eb5441
17:50 FROGGS joined #perl6
17:51 [ptc] FROGGS: quick question: is META6.json still current for modules?  Or has it been replaced by META.info?
17:51 [ptc] FROGGS: the spec still mentions META6.json and I was wondering if it needed updating
17:51 FROGGS [ptc]: META6.json will be the new one
17:51 [ptc] ah, ok
17:52 FROGGS especially CPAN will care about META6.json only, while panda might support both for a while
17:52 [ptc] good to know, thanks.  At least now I won't update things incorrectly :-)
17:52 FROGGS :o)
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17:58 dalek perl6-roast-data: 86a723f | coke++ | / (9 files):
17:58 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
17:58 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/86a723f5ec
17:59 [Coke] (larry's talk) I'm surprised 5 and 6 haven't banded together to just record larry all the time now.
18:00 lizmat [Coke]: we thought it *was* being recorded  :-(
18:00 lizmat especially in the main hall, we thought it would work  :-(
18:01 DrForr NLPW failure?
18:01 [Coke] oh, i thought this was referring to a previous talk.
18:01 * [Coke] was not trying to give lizmat a hard time about anything!
18:01 FROGGS El_Che: do you anybody we could ask regarding to larry's talk at the fosdem?
18:01 FROGGS El_Che: do you know*
18:02 japhb Actually, I'm with [Coke] on this one.  I can't imagine the Perl universe being short of Extremely Paranoid Sysadmins who have backup plans for their backup plans ... and thus have like 6 recording devices at every major talk.  :-)
18:02 japhb Clearly lizmat is just too trusting.  ;-)
18:03 konsolebox joined #perl6
18:03 * japhb is suddenly reminded of the XKCD re: sysadmin v. terrorists
18:04 japhb I tried to explain to a "normal" developer the contents of my SRE backpack, and they looked at me like I had grown extra limbs
18:08 sftp joined #perl6
18:09 lizmat not NLPW, but FOSDEM (at least so far  :-(  )
18:09 lizmat NLPW I *hope* not, Theo should know
18:16 zeleiadi joined #perl6
18:17 dalek roast: 59f78ba | TimToady++ | S03-operators/assign.t:
18:17 dalek roast: Can'tMeta -> CannotMeta
18:17 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/59f78bae80
18:17 dalek roast: 7953376 | TimToady++ | S (6 files):
18:17 dalek roast: .exit is now .exitcode
18:17 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7953376f01
18:17 dalek rakudo/nom: c35aa01 | TimToady++ | src/core/ (2 files):
18:17 dalek rakudo/nom: should not have an exit method that doesn't
18:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c35aa014b9
18:18 nine joined #perl6
18:18 nine joined #perl6
18:20 zlad joined #perl6
18:20 TimToady this change unhides a failure in S17-procasync/basic.t where the exit code was being coerced from Any to 0 and being taken as success
18:21 TimToady (exitcode is now initialized to -1 to prevent such a confusion)
18:21 FROGGS nqp-m: say(nqp::join("\n", ["foo", 42, "bar"]))
18:21 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«This representation (P6int) cannot unbox to a native string␤   at /tmp/gcBkmuUnzY:1  (<ephemeral file>:<mainline>:39)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1279  (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share​/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:eval:190)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1…»
18:24 FROGGS the exitcode change needs to be changed in panda as well
18:24 TimToady lizmat: any idea why c35aa01 doesn't deprecate .exit method despite use of DEPRECATE()?
18:25 TimToady FROGGS: I put in a temporary exit method, which seems to work, but doesn't actually deprecate
18:25 FROGGS yeah, just spotted it, phew :o)
18:25 * lizmat looking
18:26 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:26 FROGGS TimToady: maybe because we don't have 2015.04 yet?
18:26 cschwenz joined #perl6
18:27 TimToady oh, could be
18:27 lizmat yes, that is the reason
18:27 lizmat also very interesting: DEPRECATED('Proc::Status.exit', |<2015.04 2015.09>);
18:27 lizmat 2015.09 ?
18:28 lizmat so we're going to remove deprecations in Sep ?
18:28 FROGGS the plan seems to be that at that point we are aiming for the RC1
18:28 cschwenz September *is* before Christmas….  :-P
18:28 FROGGS or RC0
18:28 cschwenz FROGGS++
18:29 vendethiel joined #perl6
18:29 dalek rakudo/nom: 71ca036 | TimToady++ | src/core/OS.pm:
18:29 dalek rakudo/nom: deprecate .exit now, not next month :)
18:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/71ca03620e
18:32 pecastro joined #perl6
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 44d40c2 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (13 files):
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Deprecate everything at 2015.09 at the latest
18:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/44d40c290e
18:39 dalek specs: 372ff84 | (Steve Mynott)++ | S15-unicode.pod:
18:39 dalek specs: uninames is uniname
18:39 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/372ff84513
18:39 _mg_ joined #perl6
18:39 itz_ can someone sanity check that ^^^^
18:40 [Coke] the code lies:
18:40 [Coke] m: say uniname("A\x[00]¶\x[2028,80]")
18:40 camelia rakudo-moar 013cc0: OUTPUT«LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A␤»
18:40 [Coke] but there's 5 lines of output in the spec.
18:40 itz_ uninames maybe is supposed to return multiple names?
18:40 [Coke] plus there are many copies of uninames just below that one.
18:41 FROGGS itz_: yes
18:41 itz_ ok I'll revert
18:41 itz_ itz--
18:41 [Coke] m: say uninames("A\x[00]¶\x[2028,80]") # this don't work, though.
18:41 camelia rakudo-moar 013cc0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/IGHSqhIMa0␤Undeclared routine:␤    uninames used at line 1. Did you mean 'uniname', 'univals'?␤␤»
18:41 TimToady NYI
18:41 FROGGS but LHF
18:42 TimToady foorshoor
18:42 dalek specs: b28668d | (Steve Mynott)++ | S15-unicode.pod:
18:42 dalek specs: revert
18:42 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/b28668daf0
18:42 lizmat_ joined #perl6
18:44 yvan1 joined #perl6
18:46 * [Coke] hacks on it for a bit.
18:48 [Coke] > uninames("A\x[00]¶\x[2028,80]")
18:48 [Coke] LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A NULL PILCROW SIGN LINE SEPARATOR
18:48 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
18:48 [Coke] > uninames("A\x[00]¶\x[2028,80]").perl
18:48 [Coke] ("LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A", "NULL", "PILCROW SIGN", "LINE SEPARATOR", "")
18:50 [Coke] looks like a bug in that uniname doesn't emit <control-0080> there.
18:50 dalek Inline-Perl5: c85c4ce | (Stefan Seifert)++ | lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:
18:50 dalek Inline-Perl5: Tweak performance by using correct types
18:50 dalek Inline-Perl5:
18:50 dalek Inline-Perl5: Thanks to lizmat++ for pointing this out
18:50 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inl​ine-Perl5/commit/c85c4cea20
18:51 dalek rakudo/nom: eb86621 | coke++ | src/core/ (2 files):
18:51 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement basic uninames on moar
18:51 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/eb86621de2
18:52 dalek roast: cdf7529 | coke++ | S15-unicode-information/uniname.t:
18:52 dalek roast: Unfudge now passing tests for uninames
18:52 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/cdf7529ccb
18:52 [Coke] thankfully the tests were very forgiving. :)
18:54 dalek perl6-examples: 944a264 | (Steve Mynott)++ | categories/cookbook/01strings/01- (3 files):
18:54 dalek perl6-examples: simple case, unicode and soundex examples
18:54 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/944a264d3c
18:54 dalek perl6-examples: cf85a86 | (Steve Mynott)++ | categories/perlmonks/weighted-roll-731696.pl:
18:54 dalek perl6-examples: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/perl6-examples
18:54 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/cf85a8625f
18:54 [Coke] wow. https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=122471 - bug was already reported by me in august of last year.
18:57 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
19:02 zeleiadi joined #perl6
19:06 itz_ m: constant pi="3.2"; say pi
19:06 camelia rakudo-moar 71ca03: OUTPUT«3.2␤»
19:06 itz_ should that be possible?
19:07 moritz sure
19:07 geekosaur it's not a keyword, it's a constant defined in an outer scope
19:07 geekosaur you can probably use scope escape games to get at the outer one
19:07 moritz it's just a redeclaration in an inner scope
19:08 moritz m: constant pi = 3; say CORE::pi
19:08 camelia rakudo-moar 71ca03: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
19:10 TimToady m: constant pi = 3; say SETTING::pi
19:10 camelia rakudo-moar 71ca03: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
19:10 * TimToady thinks that SETTING should include its outers
19:10 TimToady m: constant pi = 3; say SETTING::OUTERS::pi
19:10 camelia rakudo-moar 71ca03: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
19:11 nine .oO(TimToady wants to change the language to mask him misremembering something)
19:11 TimToady m: constant pi = 3; say SETTING::LEXICAL::pi
19:11 camelia rakudo-moar 71ca03: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
19:12 TimToady nine: I expected it to say (Any) there
19:12 TimToady I just don't like it
19:13 TimToady well, probably not important, but I don't see much use case for getting things from the SETTING exclusive of the CORE
19:13 TimToady m: constant pi = 3; say UNIT::OUTER::pi
19:13 camelia rakudo-moar 71ca03: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
19:13 TimToady m: constant pi = 3; say UNIT::OUTERS::pi
19:13 camelia rakudo-moar 71ca03: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
19:14 TimToady and our usage of the term "setting" refers to the inclusion of CORE
19:16 masak m: constant pi = 3; say SETTING::LEXICAL::pi - pi
19:16 camelia rakudo-moar 71ca03: OUTPUT«0.141592653589793␤»
19:16 masak m: module Foo { my $x = 42 }; say $Foo::LEXICAL::x
19:16 camelia rakudo-moar 71ca03: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
19:16 * masak doesn't grok LEXICAL
19:20 TimToady Foo is not a lexical scope
19:21 TimToady it should probably be complaining that a package doesn't have a LEXICAL
19:22 * skids tries to muster the patience to figure out how to put another PR in from a newer rakudo checkout than his current PR without including the ff in the PR.
19:22 synbot6 joined #perl6
19:23 [Coke] if you're doing a lot of PRs, different branches helps, no?
19:23 skids Not sure.  If I create a branch, it will be at my current checkout, no?
19:23 [Coke] you can branch from anywhere.
19:25 skids I can't see anywhere, only the point at which I created the fork.
19:26 skids (and back from there)
19:27 tony-o skids: git branch -b <branch id> <commit id you want the branch to copy>
19:27 tony-o sorry - git checkout -b <branch id> <commit id>
19:28 [Coke] You probably should also be keeping your fork up to date, no?
19:28 virtualsue joined #perl6
19:28 skids My impression was, if you do that, then you end up sending merge commits along with all your PRs and it's a pain on the receiving end.
19:33 tony-o skids: are you doing rebase or merging with upstream/master ?
19:36 yqt joined #perl6
19:37 brrt joined #perl6
19:39 skids tony-o: I have no clue what I'm doing, if it isn't obvious.
19:40 tony-o skids: check this link out - https://robots.thoughtbot.com/​keeping-a-github-fork-updated
19:43 MARTIMM joined #perl6
19:44 skids Yeah, I've done rebases before but not with hanging PRs.  So I don't know the consequences.
19:50 tony-o https://help.github.com/articles/resolv​ing-merge-conflicts-after-a-git-rebase/
19:56 zakharyas joined #perl6
19:56 rindolf joined #perl6
19:57 skids Ok that turned out to be less painful than I feared.
20:03 dalek specs: 10347ec | TimToady++ | S02-bits.pod:
20:03 dalek specs: clarify that SETTING includes its outers
20:03 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/10347ec021
20:03 dalek rakudo/nom: 91156e3 | TimToady++ | src/core/PseudoStash.pm:
20:03 dalek rakudo/nom: SETTING should chain outward to CORE
20:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/91156e3b15
20:03 dalek rakudo/nom: a94d687 | TimToady++ | src/core/PseudoStash.pm:
20:03 dalek rakudo/nom: some copy/pastos on WHOness
20:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a94d687ee9
20:04 TimToady there are currently no tests of how SETTING bahaves when SETTING is outside of CORE, btw
20:04 TimToady not entirely sure what the best way to test that is...use the RESTRICTED setting maybe?
20:05 * TimToady notes that RESTRICTED is entirely unspeculated
20:07 TimToady and that rakudo does not use alternate settings to implement -n and -p
20:12 japhb Is that way to handle -n and -p required or just an implementation detail?
20:14 TimToady well, it will affect what SETTING means
20:16 TimToady and doing -n and -p that way would give me more confidence that settings actually work right
20:16 masak are -n and -p the only things which affect what SETTING means in that way?
20:16 TimToady any alternate setting would do so, including RESTRICTED, as we saw above
20:17 colomon TimToady++
20:17 colomon # nothing like getting back from lunch and discovering things now work again.
20:18 TimToady :D
20:19 FROGGS jnthn: I think my problem boils down to: deserialize object O from SC A, create SC B and serialize object O with it
20:19 FROGGS jnthn: I did try nqp::clone'ing the object, but that does not seem to help either
20:20 TimToady m: say SETTING::pi
20:20 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
20:20 TimToady YäY
20:22 FROGGS can somebody please try this locally? perl6 foo
20:22 FROGGS (with foo being not there)
20:22 TimToady > perl6 nonesuch
20:22 TimToady Could not open nonesuch. Malformed UTF-8 at line 1 col 21
20:22 FROGGS yeah, same here
20:22 FROGGS that feels like a regression
20:23 andreoss joined #perl6
20:23 PerlJam FROGGS: I get "Could not open foo. Failed to open file: no such file or directory" with This is perl6 version 2014.12-117-g2542c3d built on MoarVM version 2014.12-4-g7e95c05
20:23 andreoss can a whatever value be a part of multi sub?
20:24 FROGGS PerlJam: okay, now we know it *is* a regression, thanks :o)
20:24 leedo i also get the UTF-8 message, on a fresh rakudo/moar
20:24 PerlJam aye
20:24 TimToady andreoss: your question doesn't seem quite well-formed; do you mean 'can I pass a whatever to a multi sub?' or 'can I write a signature that recognizes a whatever?'
20:25 andreoss I meant in a signature.
20:25 TimToady just use the Whatever type
20:25 andreoss multi x(1, *, *) { 0 }
20:25 dalek roast: f905674 | skids++ | S04-statements/do.t:
20:25 dalek roast: Fix do-once result value test to properly test what it should.
20:25 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f9056745ba
20:26 TimToady m: multi x(1, Whatever, Whatever) { 0 }; say x(1,*,*)
20:26 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:26 FROGGS m: sub foo(WhateverCode &c) { &c(2) }; say foo(* ** 2)
20:26 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/P38qjiMqN2␤Calling foo(WhateverCode) will never work with declared signature (WhateverCode &c)␤at /tmp/P38qjiMqN2:1␤------> 3sub foo(WhateverCode &c) { &c(2) }; say 7⏏5foo(* ** 2)␤»
20:26 FROGGS should that work?
20:27 TimToady &c doesn't return a WhateverCode
20:27 andreoss WhateverCode implies any arity?
20:27 TimToady m: sub foo(WhateverCode $c) { $c(2) }; say foo(* ** 2)
20:27 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«4␤»
20:28 TimToady the type on a &c declaration says what the return type of c is, not what c is
20:28 TimToady generally you just want &c there anyway, so you don't overspecify that the user *must* use WhateverCode to implement the closure
20:29 TimToady m: sub foo(WhateverCode $c) { $c(2) }; say foo({$_ ** 2})
20:29 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding $c; expected 'WhateverCode' but got 'Block'␤  in sub foo at /tmp/UJ8O13BUpn:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/UJ8O13BUpn:1␤␤»
20:30 nbdsp joined #perl6
20:30 TimToady and if you want to manipulate the WhateverCode as a value to do further dwimmery, you probably don't want it in &c anyway, but in $c
20:31 nbdsp class B { method methB { say CALLER::<self>.WHAT.perl } }; class D is B { method methD { self.methB } }; D.new.methD; B.new.methB;
20:31 andreoss can be arity be preserved with Whatever? x(1, Whatever, Wharever) is the same as x(1, Whatever)?
20:31 * PerlJam sees a future FAQ in the making
20:31 nbdsp m: class B { method methB { say CALLER::<self>.WHAT.perl } }; class D is B { method methD { self.methB } }; D.new.methD; B.new.methB;
20:31 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«Mu␤Any␤»
20:31 TimToady andreoss: those are not the same
20:32 TimToady m: multi x(1, Whatever, Whatever) { 0 }; say x(1,*)
20:32 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/RBD6rWYcaT␤Calling x(Int, Whatever) will never work with any of these multi signatures:␤    (Int $ where { ... }, Whatever, Whatever)␤at /tmp/RBD6rWYcaT:1␤------> 3lti x(1, Whatever, Whatever) { 0 }; s…»
20:32 nbdsp Greetings! I wonder can one reliably use this difference to say whether a class method is called from within a class or outside a class?
20:33 TimToady nbdsp: why not use a private method in that case, and then it isn't even visible from outside
20:33 alini joined #perl6
20:34 TimToady if you also want a publicly visible method of the same name, you can do that
20:34 andreoss m: multi z(1, Whatever) { 0 } ; multi z(Whatever, 0) {1}; say z(1,0);
20:34 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_MVavbU6A_␤Calling z(Int, Int) will never work with any of these multi signatures:␤    (Int $ where { ... }, Whatever) ␤    (Whatever, Int $ where { ... })␤at /tmp/_MVavbU6A_:1␤------> 3) { 0 } ; mul…»
20:34 TimToady the namespaces are disjoint
20:34 nbdsp TimToady: I want to emulate protected methods so that methB caould be called from D, but not from outside the class
20:34 TimToady protected methods are a bad idea
20:35 TimToady even Bjarne thinks so
20:35 nbdsp Why? E.g. in class Exception - the exception string can be set by derived classes, but not from outside.
20:36 itz_ m: sqrt(3+4i)
20:36 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: ( no output )
20:36 itz_ m: say sqrt(3+4i)
20:36 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«2+1i␤»
20:37 pmichaud_ hello, all
20:37 pmichaud a pmichaud time update:   robotics ends this week.  I'm full-time #perl6 starting Apr 28.
20:37 muraiki w00t
20:38 jnthn FROGGS: If the object was once in SC A then it will be marked as such. Further, the whole object graph will be recursively, so a clone at the top level won't help.
20:38 FROGGS hmmmm
20:38 andreoss left #perl6
20:39 FROGGS I don't even know if that is my problem
20:39 skids \o/ pmichaud++
20:39 FROGGS pmichaud: \o/
20:39 pmichaud hello, all.  :)
20:39 FROGGS jnthn: though, I seem to be able to reproduce the issue outside of the setting now
20:39 FROGGS hi :o)
20:40 jnthn FROGGS: It probably is
20:40 El_Che FROGGS: I just sent a friendly reminder to a few fosdem organizers I know
20:41 jnthn FROGGS: Because it means if you serialize mention *any* of the objects you deserialized from A in another serialization context B, then it's going to emit a cross-reference and then get upset when you try and deserialize.
20:41 itz_ m: say sqrt(i*i)
20:41 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17+1i␤»
20:41 jnthn o/ pmichaud
20:41 FROGGS El_Che++
20:41 FROGGS El_Che: please keep us posted :o)
20:41 jnthn pmichaud: iiuc, you'll be in Oslo? :)
20:41 FROGGS jnthn: exactly... and since I overwrite the file that contained SC A...
20:42 jnthn FROGGS: That's the way SCs are designed to work. :)
20:42 jnthn (To cross-reference)
20:42 jnthn That's the "bounded" in bounded serialization.
20:42 jnthn About nbdsp's question on self about, no, you can't reliably reach self using CALLER; it probably should never work already
20:42 FROGGS yeah, BS :o)
20:43 jnthn (Because things have to be marked "is dynamic" to be visible through CALLER)
20:44 El_Che FROGGS: it seems to be in limbo: http://video.fosdem.org/2015/STATUS.txt
20:44 El_Che FROGGS: Not with the posted ones, not with the failures. Sigh
20:44 jnthn FROGGS: So your only good bet is to build a fresh data structure.
20:45 FROGGS jnthn: yes, I'm copying now by doing 'from-json to-json' >.<
20:45 jnthn And that solves the issue?
20:45 nbdsp jnthn: the code I cited is not reaching caller, but there are difference between trying it from within the class and from outside (different reported types of CALLER::<self>.WHAT)
20:45 FROGGS jnthn: we'll see... compiling right now
20:46 jnthn nbdsp: I'd not rely on that. :)
20:46 pmichaud o/ jnthn
20:47 jnthn pmichaud: Robotics prep going well?
20:47 FROGGS nbdsp: isnt the cleanest way to make a multi method foo(::?CLASS:D) and multi method foo(::?CLASS:U) ?
20:47 FROGGS nbdsp: so you'd know if it was called on the class or an instance
20:48 jnthn FROGGS: I think he wants to know the identify of the caller
20:48 FROGGS ohh
20:48 pmichaud jnthn: it's hard to say.  We leave for the championship tonight (in about 3.5 hours)
20:48 jnthn pmichaud: Oh wow, such soon!
20:48 pmichaud yes, competition starts tomorrow
20:49 FROGGS jnthn: hmpf, the from-json to-json "trick" did not help either...
20:49 FROGGS I'll continue tomorrow...
20:49 pmichaud by saturday, robotics 2014 season is finally _over_.
20:49 FROGGS pmichaud: good luck!
20:49 jnthn :)
20:49 jnthn Have fun with it, and good luck!
20:49 FROGGS gnight #perl6
20:50 jnthn About OSDC.no, I'll be there in Oslo from before the conf 'cus teaching work. And I'll be around until the 11th late afternoon or early evening.
20:50 pmichaud I arrive morning of may 8, depart morning of may 12
20:52 jnthn OK :)
20:54 eli-se joined #perl6
20:56 skids My PR from today would add this:
20:56 skids $ ./perl6 -e 'fail(X::NYI::Available.new(:feature<toads> :available<frogs::notquite ribbit noise::croak>))' # Unhandled exception: Please install frogs::notquite, ribbit or noise::croak for\
20:56 skids toads support.
20:57 skids </advertisement> :-)
20:59 lizmat_ .botsnack
20:59 yoleaux :D
20:59 synbot6 om nom nom
20:59 dolmen joined #perl6
21:00 masak .botsnack
21:00 yoleaux :D
21:00 synbot6 om nom nom
21:00 masak wow, two bots snacking.
21:01 skids Wonder if we can get them to fight for the last botsnack.
21:01 synbot6 om nom nom
21:02 skids Ah, damn, I guess that's a lost opportunity.
21:02 * skids didn't know synbot6 could jump that high.
21:03 lizmat_ .bot snack
21:04 [Coke] arglebarglebotsnackgarble.
21:04 synbot6 om nom nom
21:04 pmichaud I'm afk again, back on Monday.
21:04 skids rotten 10 month old botsnack from between the couch cushions.
21:04 synbot6 om nom nom
21:05 jnthn Bet you won't eat this bоtsnack!
21:05 jnthn Hah!
21:07 lizmat botsnack! ?
21:07 synbot6 om nom nom
21:07 lizmat botsnack!
21:07 synbot6 om nom nom
21:10 dalek perl6-examples: 7db1122 | (Steve Mynott)++ | categories/cookbook/0 (3 files):
21:10 dalek perl6-examples: simple complex nos, base convert and tweaking
21:10 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl​6-examples/commit/7db1122edb
21:10 vendethiel \o/
21:12 lizmat commute to home&
21:12 nbdsp Could someone tell please why this difference in CALLER::<self>.WHAT type in the following code?
21:13 nbdsp m: class B { method methB { say CALLER::<self>.WHAT.perl } }; class D is B { method methD { self.methB } }; D.new.methD; B.new.methB;
21:13 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«Mu␤Any␤»
21:15 jnthn nbdsp: If I had to guess, it's an implementation accident that hinges on a method having a self lexical (though in that case its use has been optimized away) leading to a Mu, and a scope with no lexical and so the pseudo-hash just does what a Hash does and hands back a Scalar container, which by default contains an Any.
21:16 jnthn nbdsp: You can run with --optimize=off or so to see if I'm right about the "optimized away" bit.
21:17 nbdsp Ohh. I guess this is not reliable indicator then. Thanks.
21:17 jnthn Not at all.
21:18 jnthn If I wanted to implement some kinda protected thing robustly I'd probably look at how private methods work.
21:18 jnthn (In the MOP)
21:19 jnthn Writing a module that makes things automatically turst their subclasses may be possible.
21:19 jnthn Well, it'll be posible, but it may be easily-ish possible
21:20 nbdsp With MOP it probably can be done.
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21:24 japhb .oO( Use the source^WMOP, Luke! )
21:28 psch i'm confused :/
21:28 psch i'm trying to properly deal with .WHAT on a Java interop wrapper
21:29 psch and it at least doesn't die anymore
21:29 psch ugh
21:31 psch «say System.WHAT» gives me e.g. "org.perl6.nqp.sixmodel.TypeObject@1e3d098c"
21:31 psch and «print System.WHAT» gives me e.g. "__P6opaque__68@71950f04"
21:31 psch i'm installing the CR for the Java .toString() for both .gist and .Str
21:33 psch so it seems to work ok-ish in &say, even if it's not particularly useful like that
21:36 psch welp, i'm not sure anymore if i'm trying anything sensible anyway
21:37 jnthn .tell nbdsp I did a quick MOP hack... https://gist.github.com/jnthn/d8c27741c7b0d25f340d
21:37 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to nbdsp.
21:37 jnthn psch: print should probably be warning about an undefined value...
21:38 jnthn m: say Int;
21:38 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
21:38 jnthn m: print Int;
21:38 camelia rakudo-moar a94d68: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value <element> of type Int in string context  in block <unit> at /tmp/vr1UghWW61:1␤␤»
21:38 psch jnthn: right, but doesn't that mean that i have to hook this up somehow differently in the first place?
21:39 jnthn psch: Well, it hangs off a method Str being a multi method that only accepts :D iirc
21:39 jnthn And the default set of candidates are inherited from Any
21:41 masak 'night, #perl6
21:41 psch g'night masak
21:41 * jnthn figures he'd better rest also
21:41 jnthn o/
21:41 psch jnthn: and :D depends on .defined, which i need to hook up to the java class iiuc?
21:42 jnthn psch: No, it means "not a type object"
21:42 psch right
21:42 jnthn e.g. .CONCRETE
21:44 psch nqp::isconcrete at least seems to work
21:44 psch so i have to build a CodeRef that i can graft onto the JavaHOW that calls that i guess
21:44 psch hrm, there's so many wonky spots left in jvminterop
21:44 TimToady I thought it was .DEFINITE at the higher level
21:45 jnthn oops, it is
21:45 TimToady but nqp::isconcrete works too
21:45 psch anyway, thanks and g'night jnthn
21:45 jnthn TimToady++ # confirming I should actaully get off the keyboard and go to bed :)
21:45 jnthn 'night
21:45 TimToady o/
21:45 japhb o/
21:45 psch i'll have to dig deeper into the our MOP too, i think, considering we probably want to support subclassing from Java to Perl 6
21:46 * TimToady digs deeper into the NAP... &
21:50 psch what other methods are there that should exist?  HOW, WHAT, WHO etc. aren't methods and go through to nqp ops directly afaiu, so i kinda-sorta got those already
21:50 psch i guess .gist is somewhat sensible to support
21:51 psch oh, WHICH too
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