IRC log for #perl6, 2015-04-25

Time	Nick	Message
00:00	timotimo	bugadmin? can't you just write that in there?
00:00	timotimo	i can then close it
00:02	psch	replied
00:02	psch	mostly a clog dump, as i said... :)
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00:04	timotimo	i rejected the ticket
00:04	timotimo	you are my hero :)
00:05	psch	yay, achieved something today \o/
00:05	timotimo	http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/23/this-terrifying-microsoft-ad-suggests-youre-not-working-hard-enough-in-the-bathroom/?hpid=z6 did i get this link from in here?
00:08	psch	that's the most public this troublesome trend of "work is life" has ever appeared to me
00:08	timotimo	i just have some kind of feeling that perl6 people would have a good life-work-balance
00:09	psch	well, the notion of "different kinds of work" can't be ignored
00:09	psch	as in, none here would be fit for any kind of data entry job
00:09	psch	but those somehow are important
00:09	timotimo	hm?
00:10	psch	well, the text mentions "filling out Excel sheets in bed"
00:10	psch	that's not really something i would readily assume Perl 6 people to have as a job :)
00:11	* psch	is reminded of a job training programm he had to participate in
00:11	timotimo	oh
00:12	psch	it was literally transscribing one kind of Excel sheet format into another
00:12	timotimo	;_;
00:12	psch	they even gave us printouts of the source spreadsheets
00:14	timotimo	printouts
00:14	labster	Perl 6 people, at the very least, have good pun-life balance.
00:14	timotimo	that makes me a bid sad
00:16	labster	That link is very scary. But the graphics need a panopticon in the corner to complete the message.
00:16	timotimo	.u mathematical
00:16	yoleaux	U+205F MEDIUM MATHEMATICAL SPACE [Zs] ( )
00:16	yoleaux	U+27CB MATHEMATICAL RISING DIAGONAL [Sm] (⟋)
00:16	yoleaux	U+27CD MATHEMATICAL FALLING DIAGONAL [Sm] (⟍)
00:17	labster	.oO ( 27% of tech support workers have worked while asleep )
00:18	jdv79	is sleep working like sleep walking?
00:19	timotimo	%)
00:23	psch	the greatest part about that spreadsheet transscribe thing was that the computers we were to enter the data into new sheets had access to a network drive that had the source of the printouts
00:23	psch	so, yeah
00:24	psch	Excel can import data and rearrange columns
00:24	psch	ridiculous waste of time and resources, that whole gig
00:27	timotimo	;_;
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01:05	dalek	specs: 7749b59 \| (Kris Shannon)++ \| S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
01:05	dalek	specs: Missing 'c' from rotor example
01:05	dalek	specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/7749b593a8
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01:26	timotimo	.u turkish
01:26	yoleaux	U+20BA TURKISH LIRA SIGN [Sc] (₺)
01:27	timotimo	how does perl6 handle stuff like upper-casing i in turkish locate to become a İ
01:27	timotimo	we don't go through the libc locale stuff, right?
01:33	geekosaur	isn't that in the unicode metadata somewhere?
01:42	raydiak	can unicode properties have different values for different locales? they use the same lowercase latin i english typers do, I think
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01:51	raydiak	looks like unicode's answer to this problem is more than sufficiently complicated to handle locale-dependent mappings: http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr44/#Casemapping
01:54	raydiak	and the closest related thing I see in moar is around here or so: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/826a8cc61e4368d9396edc704d19896102eb9d82/src/strings/unicode_ops.c#L76-86
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02:45	dalek	rakudo/nom: ecd3159 \| TimToady++ \| src/core/ (13 files):
02:45	dalek	rakudo/nom: .map is no longer flat; use .for for flat map
02:45	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ecd3159c2d
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03:18	cbk1090	Hello #perl6 ppl
03:19	raydiak	hi cbk1090
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03:41	adu	hi raydiak
03:41	yoleaux	14 Apr 2015 04:46Z <tony-o> adu: supernovus is supernovus
03:42	adu	I think that was the most informative yoleaux-mail I've ever gotten :/
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03:45	labster	.tell adu facts are facts
03:45	yoleaux	labster: I'll pass your message to adu.
03:47	TimToady	m: say ((1,2,3),(4,5,6)).map: *.join;
03:47	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«123 456␤»
03:48	TimToady	m: say ((1,2,3),(4,5,6)).for: *.join;
03:48	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 5 6␤»
03:48	labster	Should eval_lives_ok supress warnings?
03:49	labster	m: use Test; eval_lives_ok "Str.Str";
03:49	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context in block <unit> at EVAL_0:1␤␤ok 1 - ␤»
03:52	labster	RT #77650 already exists on this, but there was like no discussion on it. S24 doesn't mention warnings.
03:52	synbot6	Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=77650
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04:00	labster	m: use Test; plan 1; eval_lives_ok "Str.Str";
04:00	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«1..1␤use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context in block <unit> at EVAL_0:1␤␤ok 1 - ␤»
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04:41	TimToady	wow, unflattening .join is even more spectacular than unflattening .map :)
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04:46	TimToady	(note to those following along: part of the GLR is lower-level implementation that should speed things up, but another part is to change most listy methods to not flatten by default; the listop forms will continue to flatten as they did before though, since that is controled by binding a slurpy param)
04:49	TimToady	only fails like 87 test files to make .join non-flattening...
04:50	TimToady	otoh, it lets the rotor test file pass after taking the itemization off of rotor output...
04:50	TimToady	so it's not all bad...
04:55	* raydiak	is excited
04:56	labster	the world is no longer flat
04:57	raydiak	and not just excited to see how many dozens or hundreds of lines of my own code I'll get to fix :)
04:59	TimToady	I dunno, maybe we should go with that rule that methods that begin with 'f' flatten :)
05:00	TimToady	oh wait, join doesn't begin with 'f', nevermind :)
05:02	labster	Methods that flatten should consist entirely of underscores :o)
05:02	TimToady	or at least start with one
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05:17	TimToady	well, maybe I'll make some underscore variants that have the old flattening behavior, and we can sort things out later
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05:43	TimToady	actually, ain't quite so bad as all that; turned out I made ~ into a destructive operation on arrays :)
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05:53	TimToady	okay, now it's only 17 failing test files :)
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06:05	moritz	m: say [1, 2, 3].map(* * 2)
06:05	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«2 4 6␤»
06:05	moritz	m: say [1, (2, 3)].map(* * 2)
06:05	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«2 4 6␤»
06:06	moritz	oh, maybe [] flattens
06:06	moritz	m: say (1, (2, 3)).map(* * 2)
06:06	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«2 4␤»
06:06	moritz	m: say (1, (2, 3)).for(* * 2)
06:06	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«2 4 6␤»
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06:23	* moritz	is glad that panda still bootstraps after the .map change
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06:32	jnthn	Yes, [...] still flattens (by GLR design) as I remember it.
06:32	yoleaux	24 Apr 2015 22:49Z <lizmat> jnthn: why is while slower than gather while ??? https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/40a42410d2c9bdc9d2
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06:42	jnthn	TimToady++ starting in the back-incompat changes soon after a release, so we get time to deal with the fallout
06:43	jnthn	*starting on
06:43	* jnthn	should start on coffee...though maybe starting in it would work if you can absorb caffeine too...
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06:46	jnthn	lizmat: Odd, when I do this:
06:46	jnthn	ptime perl6-m -e "(^100000).pick(*, :eager)"
06:46	jnthn	ptime perl6-m -e "(^100000).pick(*)"
06:46	jnthn	The numbers are:
06:46	jnthn	1.152s
06:46	jnthn	1.132s
06:47	jnthn	But
06:47	jnthn	ptime perl6-m -e "my @a = (^100000).pick(*, :eager)"
06:47	jnthn	ptime perl6-m -e "my @a = (^100000).pick(*)"
06:48	jnthn	ome out about the same
06:48	jnthn	*Come
06:48	jnthn	Oh wait, but I dunno if Range.pick is special :)
06:49	jnthn	But anyway, then doing this:
06:49		ggoebel joined #perl6
06:49	jnthn	ptime perl6-m -e "my @a = ^100000; @a.pick(*)"
06:49	jnthn	uh, let's keep order the same
06:50	jnthn	ptime perl6-m -e "my @a = ^100000; @a.pick(*, :eager)"
06:50	jnthn	ptime perl6-m -e "my @a = ^100000; @a.pick(*)"
06:50	jnthn	I get
06:50	jnthn	0.588
06:50	jnthn	1.210
06:50	jnthn	So the :eager one is faster there
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06:52	jnthn	lizmat: I've tried a few variants but can't get the :eager version to come out slower here.
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06:53	jnthn	lizmat: Can you tell me exactly what code you ran, so I can reproduce what you saw?
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06:54	TimToady	may well depend on cache sizes
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06:55	TimToady	and I wouldn't put too much effort into this pre-GLR
06:56	jnthn	Indeed, was more looking at it to see if there's a performance WAT somewhere :)
06:56	TimToady	nod, would be nice to understand it
06:57	jnthn	Anyway, nice to see that we're now moving on all of The Big Three :)
06:57	jnthn	(NFG getting there, NSA at least is fairly far along with the NA part, and now early GLR semantic changes landing)
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06:59	lizmat	good morning, #perl6!
07:00	nine	Good morning!
07:00	lizmat	jnthn: as it said in the commit message, the sample code was: my @a = ^100; for ^500 { @a.pick(*) }
07:00	lizmat	or my @a = ^100; for ^500 { @a.pick(*,:eager) }
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07:03	jnthn	lizmat: If you actually use the result in the loop, though (my @b = @a.pick(*)) then the eager one comes out faster.
07:04	jnthn	lizmat: I'm guessing the gather/take one is simply not being asked hard enough to produce elements in the first, so it does no work.
07:05	lizmat	ok, so we're looking at a test artefact
07:05	jnthn	m: sub foo() { my $i = 100; gather { while $i-- { take-rw $i } } }; for ^500 { foo() }
07:05	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: ( no output )
07:06	jnthn	m: sub foo() { my $i = 100; gather { while $i-- { take-rw $i } } }; for ^500 { my @a = foo() }
07:06	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: ( no output )
07:06	jnthn	oops
07:06	jnthn	m: sub foo() { my $i = 100; gather { while $i-- { say 'here' take-rw $i } } }; for ^500 { foo() }
07:06	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/fAn6kHMteA␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/fAn6kHMteA:1␤------> 3 = 100; gather { while $i-- { say 'here'7⏏5 take-rw $i } } }; for ^500 { foo() }␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix s…»
07:06	jnthn	m: sub foo() { my $i = 100; gather { while $i-- { say 'here'; take-rw $i } } }; for ^500 { foo() }
07:06	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: ( no output )
07:06	jnthn	m: sub foo() { my $i = 100; gather { while $i-- { say 'here'; take-rw $i } } }; for ^500 { my @b = foo() }
07:06	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here␤here…»
07:06	jnthn	Yeah :)
07:06	jnthn	laziness FTW :P
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07:08	lizmat	phew
07:13	jnthn	:)
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07:15	lizmat	turns out, the eager one is 3x as fast :-)
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07:20	nbdsp	Greetings! Could someone advise please what is the difference of '<.ident>**0..1' from '?' in regexes?
07:20	nbdsp	...from '<.ident>?'
07:22	jnthn	None given it's non-capturing
07:22	nine	nbdsp: whatever the answer will be, please add it to doc.perl6.org :)
07:23	jnthn	If it were <ident>**0..1 vs <ident>? then the first always gives an list in the match object for <ident> (empty if it didn't match), while the second puts a Nil there if it didn't match.
07:24	labster	why has my version of panda decided to call itself "34"?
07:24	nbdsp	jnthn: thanks!
07:24	lizmat	alas, the eagerness of .pick(,:eager) does not* solve the flakiness of t/spec/integration/advent2013-day14.t :-(
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07:33	lizmat	when it fails now (although a lot less often) is with:
07:33	lizmat	# combiner failure:Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value
07:33	lizmat	Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value
07:33	lizmat	the line in question: my &block = @other.shift
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07:34	lizmat	fwiw, the segfaults seem gone now, which indicates there still might by an async / GatherIter interaction that's breaking us up
07:37	jnthn	lizmat: I don't see a use of .pick in that test file?
07:37	lizmat	it's hidden in EARLIEST
07:38	jnthn	eek
07:38	lizmat	when I was testing this before, it was crapping out a lot around that situation
07:38	lizmat	eek ?
07:38	jnthn	Oh, we pikc a ready thing at random...
07:39	lizmat	yup, that's the idea, create noise :-)
07:39	jnthn	Yeah, fair enough.
07:43	lizmat	hmmm... without the :eager I cannot get it to segfault anymore, but it errors out at the same location but withe extra info:
07:43	lizmat	# parse worker failure:Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value
07:43	lizmat	# combiner failure:Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value
07:43	lizmat	Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value
07:44	jnthn	Yeah, I suspect somewhere we have over-sharing of state (due to under-cloning of blocks)
07:44	dalek	rakudo/nom: 9d74227 \| lizmat++ \| src/core/ (2 files):
07:44	dalek	rakudo/nom: Use eager pick(*) where it makes sense
07:44	dalek	rakudo/nom:
07:44	dalek	rakudo/nom: This makes at least EARLIEST a bit faster, and hopefully more stable.
07:44	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9d74227c00
07:46	labster	m: dir(Str)
07:46	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context in block <unit> at /tmp/QByqGE4ekg:1␤␤use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context in any at /home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:1␤␤Cannot unbox…»
07:47	labster	... a type object
07:50	jnthn	If you don't like it should patch a :D on it
07:51	labster	Although an empty string path is probably also a bad idea. Unless you're on VMS. In which case, it's still a bad idea.
07:51	dalek	Heuristic branch merge: pushed 83 commits to rakudo/newio by lizmat
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07:53	labster	m: dir("")
07:53	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: ( no output )
07:54	labster	m: dir("").say
07:54	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia/.bash_history".IO "/home/camelia/p6eval-token".IO "/home/camelia/std".IO "/home/camelia/.ssh".IO "/home/camelia/star".IO "/home/camelia/perl5".IO "/home/camelia/.perl6".IO "/home/camelia/.rcc".IO "/home/camelia/p1".IO "/home/camelia/nqp-js".…»
07:55	dalek	rakudo/nom: b8f72f5 \| TimToady++ \| src/core/List.pm:
07:55	dalek	rakudo/nom: rotor no longer itemizes slices
07:55	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b8f72f5dcc
07:55	dalek	rakudo/nom: 998f019 \| TimToady++ \| src/core/ (5 files):
07:55	dalek	rakudo/nom: distinguish join from _join
07:55	dalek	rakudo/nom:
07:55	dalek	rakudo/nom: for now, _join is the old flattening join, until we decide the best notation
07:55	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/998f019709
07:55	Ven	o/, #pelr6
07:55	yoleaux	24 Apr 2015 13:03Z <hoelzro> Ven: no, but I have a name picked out if you want to use it
07:55	yoleaux	24 Apr 2015 13:04Z <hoelzro> Ven: "Speculaas", if you want it
07:55	dalek	roast: c49966e \| TimToady++ \| S (11 files):
07:55	dalek	roast: use _join where flattening is still desired
07:55	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c49966e41f
07:55	Ven	o/, #perl6
07:56	Ven	hoelzro: dunno; but it seems like it could be useful maybe
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07:57	labster	Something makes me uncomfortable with dir("") being the same as dir(".")
07:57	lizmat	it's the same in any CLI, afaik
07:58	labster	% ls ''
07:58	labster	ls: fts_open: No such file or directory
07:59	labster	m: "".IO.say
07:59	camelia	rakudo-moar ecd315: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia".IO␤»
08:00	lizmat	labster: I meant the argumentless version, not the empty string version
08:01	labster	yeah, that's totally fine.
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08:15	lizmat	TimToady: instead of using _join, wouldn't it be better to just use join listop in the core ?
08:16	lizmat	or in roast, for that matter ?
08:16	lizmat	feels to me, making a _join available now, will just lead to more pain down the road
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08:18	TimToady	if they were written as methods for valid left-to-right reasons, then .flat.join would make more sense than using the listop form
08:24	jnthn	Any reason not to just .flat.join now?
08:24	jnthn	It's just as easy ot search out /'.flat.'/ later if we want to clean it up later.
08:24	TimToady	no strong feelings on the subject
08:26	lizmat	m: sub a { my @a = <a b c>; @a.push("d") }; a.join.perl.say # is this correct?
08:26	camelia	rakudo-moar 998f01: OUTPUT«"abcd"␤»
08:26	jnthn	We at least with .flat make them switch to something that'll stay working; wiht ._join it has to change again later
08:26	TimToady	arrays are naturally flat
08:26	jnthn	lizmat: Yes, because list assignment is flattening.
08:27	lizmat	then I wonder why TimToady made this:
08:27	lizmat	my $abspath = MAKE-CLEAN-PARTS(MAKE-ABSOLUTE-PATH($path,$base))._join('/');
08:27	jnthn	Or if you wnat less rules: = is an operator, operators are subs, sub-y list-y things flatten.
08:27	lizmat	use _join
08:27	lizmat	it seems unnecessary, or am I missing something ?
08:27	TimToady	well, something was failing near there, so that may or may not have been the fix for it
08:28	lizmat	ah, ok
08:28	lizmat	will investigate then
08:28	TimToady	you can take it back out and see if anything breaks...
08:28	TimToady	I tended to err on the side of too many _joins instead of twoo few
08:28	TimToady	*too
08:28	lizmat	okidoki
08:29	TimToady	but the overall plan is to remove the need for .lol, .tree, and .flat being thrown in all over the place to compensate for each other
08:30	TimToady	so mostly we're trying to de-itemize things that were done so to compensate for too much flattening right now
08:30	TimToady	like rotor, and probably .combinations
08:31	TimToady	basically we need to audit all the built-in methods for .flat assumptions
08:32	TimToady	but I need to sack out pretty soon, so can't really pursue that much further tonight
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08:32	lizmat	yeah, post 1am dev work tends to be useless in my experience
08:33	TimToady	you'll note I checked it in at 00:55 :)
08:33	lizmat	:-)
08:52	dalek	roast: 12b6cf5 \| skids++ \| S (2 files):
08:52	dalek	roast: Add tests for windows-1252 codepage support and IO.encoding
08:52	dalek	roast: fudge rakudo for not being able to switch input encoding
08:52	dalek	roast: fudge rakudo.jvm for behavior of JVM-builtin charset
08:52	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/12b6cf5aa7
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08:56	masak_	good antenoon, #perl6
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09:18	RabidGravy	morning
09:18	jnthn	skids: I'd write the tests without relying on being able to change input encoding. I'm not sure whether we'll actually support that.
09:18	jnthn	skids: At lesat, not if you read at anything above byte level.
09:20	skids	jnthn: What position do we want to take about the JVM behavior?
09:20	jnthn	It's really not a very sane thing to do when you're dealing with things that have to read ahead a bit to know when they've got a whole grapheme to hand back.
09:21	jnthn	skids: We're not trying to do any normalization stuff there yet, let alone NFG.
09:21	skids	jnthn: could we not just cache the byte value of read-but-not-used bytes?
09:21	dalek	rakudo/nom: 0c9c252 \| lizmat++ \| src/core/ (3 files):
09:21	dalek	rakudo/nom: Don't use _join in core, does not seem necessary
09:21	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0c9c252142
09:21	jnthn	skids: If we really, really have a use case we can try to do that.
09:22	jnthn	skids: But it's likely to be fragile.
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09:23	skids	OK, so roast-wise what's the best way to express "we might do this later, but..." -- 'skip' and a coment?
09:23	jnthn	Something like
09:23	jnthn	Though in this case it feels like the tests don't need to be written the way they currently are.
09:23	jnthn	(e.g. writing a mixed-encoding file)
09:25	skids	Just trying to kill multple birds :-) OK I'll massage those a bit.
09:25	jnthn	It's generally preferable to have tests that kill specific birds, so they more directly tell you what you broke :)
09:29	dalek	roast: 5da4536 \| lizmat++ \| S (8 files):
09:29	dalek	roast: /._join/.flat.join/
09:29	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5da4536cf8
09:29	masak	jnthn, rewriter of old proverbs: "it's better to kill a specific bird with one stone" :P
09:30	masak	I never thought of it that way, but yeah... if you really want to get rid of a specific bird, then having the ability to kill random birds with a stone is not much help...
09:30	dalek	rakudo/nom: 5aee9b4 \| lizmat++ \| src/core/Any.pm:
09:30	dalek	rakudo/nom: Eradicate _join, please use .flat.join instead
09:30	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5aee9b45e0
09:31	jnthn	lizmat++
09:31	lizmat	afk&
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10:24	dalek	roast: 7c1921f \| skids++ \| S16-filehandles/io.t:
10:24	dalek	roast: Independently test iso-8859-1 reading and writing without mixing encoding
10:24	dalek	roast: The windows-1252 tests should be fine as they happen before mixed encoding
10:24	dalek	roast: Mark mixed encoding tests with skip instead of todo as they might never work
10:24	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7c1921f112
10:28		pippo joined #perl6
10:28	pippo	o/ #perl6
10:29	pippo	my REPL does not support arrow up to get previous command anymore. Anybody else with same pb?
10:30	pippo	j: say "Hello";
10:30	camelia	rakudo-jvm 5aee9b: OUTPUT«cannot connect to eval server: Connection refused␤»
10:30	pippo	o/
10:30		pippo left #perl6
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10:59	eli-se	hola
11:02	moritz	j: say "another attempt"
11:02	camelia	rakudo-jvm 5aee9b: OUTPUT«another attempt␤»
11:02		Ven joined #perl6
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11:12	psch	j: use java::lang::System:from<Java>; say System; print System
11:12	camelia	rakudo-jvm 5aee9b: OUTPUT«org.perl6.nqp.sixmodel.TypeObject7698d414␤__P6opaque__69703b8164»
11:13	psch	j: use java::lang::System:from<Java>; say System.^name
11:13	camelia	rakudo-jvm 5aee9b: OUTPUT«java.lang.System␤»
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11:32	DrForr	.tell jd79 Yes, Royal Garden. It's just across the street from the venue.
11:32	yoleaux	DrForr: I'll pass your message to jd79.
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12:35	jdv79	DrForr: thanks. saved $425.
12:37	DrForr	No problem, I kinda got caught out, because of all the paperwork I'd not been sure of being able to make it, so I put it off.
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12:45	* ingy	remembers back in 2002 when DrForr was release manager for Perl6
12:45	ingy	or was that Parrot?
12:49	DrForr	Back then it was hard to tell :)
12:49	masak	right. the Parrot/Perl 6 release manager was the same thing until pmichaud was brought on board.
12:51	DrForr	I think he took up the mantle after me.
12:51	masak	DrForr: I kinda recognized your nick, but I didn't quite realize how long you've been involved. (longer than I have.) it's nice seeing you here again. :)
12:52	DrForr	Well, long long hiatus to be honest.
12:52	masak	oh, ok.
12:53	DrForr	But the welcome is still appreciated.
12:53	masak	I may recognize your nick from PerlMonks or something like that.
12:54	DrForr	Not likely, I"m not too active outside IRC.
12:54	masak	hm. then maybe one of the #perl channels. I'm not there often, but it happens.
12:56	DrForr	I happen to have more free time now that I don't have a 2-hour commute to work.
12:56		Ven joined #perl6
12:57	lizmat	ah, the joys of transsylvania! :-)
12:58	DrForr	Say what you will, it's relatively cheap living, and London (especially downtown) burned through my savings.
12:59	lizmat	fwiw, I love Cluj :-)
13:01	Ven	TimToady++ # apparent beginning of GLR
13:02	* masak	.oO( Good Luck, Right? )
13:03	Ven	.oO( together we scander: GLR! GLR! GLR! :P )
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13:07	Ven	It seems you can't vertically scroll on perl6.org, i.e. here: http://doc.perl6.org/type/Str#method_subst – the :x(0) example doesn't wrap, and I can't scroll. Can anybody else confirm
13:09	DrForr	I assume you mean horizontally, and yes, it doesn't wrap.
13:10	DrForr	Neither can I drag-select. CSS strikes again.
13:10	DrForr	CSS hits! CSS hits! You call a designer.
13:10	DrForr	--more--
13:11	timotimo	argh
13:12	psch	DrForr: that looks suspiciously like DCSS :)
13:12	psch	although the style probably predates that particular usage
13:14	* Ven	remembers "a.\|b" for "flattening version" proposed at apw... but also dismissed rather quickly
13:15	Ven	DrForr: urgh, yes, horizontally >_>
13:15	timotimo	you can overflow-x: scroll on div.highlight
13:16	timotimo	that'll have the grey background scroll with it and appear "cut off" at the right, though
13:16	timotimo	which looks weird, too
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13:30	dalek	rakudo/nom: 0c197cd \| lizmat++ \| src/core/Supply.pm:
13:30	dalek	rakudo/nom: Add Supply.rotor(:partial) and deprecation
13:30	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0c197cd376
13:30		pmurias joined #perl6
13:30	pmurias	hi
13:31	dalek	roast: 91e6423 \| lizmat++ \| S17-supply/rotor.t:
13:31	dalek	roast: Adapt Supply.rotor tests to match new API
13:31	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/91e6423272
13:31	dalek	roast: a9df78a \| lizmat++ \| S16-filehandles/io.t:
13:31	dalek	roast: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/roast
13:31	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a9df78ad2a
13:35	lizmat	afk for some 3D ultronic ageing
13:35	DrForr	Heh. I'm going in a few hours mysef.
13:35	DrForr	*myself
13:36	lizmat	.oO( avengeful times )
13:36	lizmat	&
13:37	[Tux]	oh my. Text::CSV severely broken now :(
13:37	[Tux]	anythin EOL-related changed in the last two days?
13:38	[Tux]	2015-04-24 18:25:03 all was still passing and I didn't change anything past that
13:39	[Tux]	lizmat, ?
13:39	psch	[Tux]: NFG?
13:39	DrForr	She just went AFK. I'm not aware of anything, but I haven't updated today.
13:39	[Tux]	NFG?
13:40	psch	S99:NFG
13:40	synbot6	Link: http://design.perl6.org/S99.html#NFG
13:40	psch	i think it landed at around 21:00 yesterday?
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13:40	psch	22:30, actually
13:41	psch	it's the biggest thing i can think of that changed
13:41	psch	but i'm unsure if it could interact badly with Text::CSV
13:43	[Tux]	I can't imagine
13:43	psch	there was something about control characters, too, but i'd have to reread the clog
13:43	[Tux]	a lot of non-unicode stuff now fails badly. real badly
13:44	[Tux]	and no warnings
13:45	psch	you'll probably want to golf as much as possible and ping jnthn++ about it
13:46	[Tux]	doing so right now
13:46	psch	there was also windows-1252 encoding, but that was yesterday morning, not evening
13:46	psch	[Tux]++
13:47	[Tux]	regex doesn't split on ,
13:48	psch	.u ,
13:48	yoleaux	U+002C COMMA [Po] (,)
13:50	psch	m: say "," ~~ /,/ # this?
13:50	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/XXNxtvO8B2␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter , (must be quoted to match literally)␤at /tmp/XXNxtvO8B2:1␤------> 3say "," ~~ /7⏏5,/ # this?␤ expecting any of:␤ term␤»
13:50	psch	no, that should be right as-is
13:50	* psch	shrugs
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13:54	[Tux]	m: my$s=",";my$q=q{"};my$e=q{"};.perl.say for q{hello,","," ",world,"!"}.split(rx{\r\n\|\r\|\n\|$s\|$q\|$e},:all).map: {if $_ ~~ Str { $_ if .chars;}else{.Str if .Bool;}}
13:54	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«"hello ,"␤" \""␤" ,"␤" \""␤" ,"␤" \""␤" \""␤" ,"␤"world ,"␤" \""␤"! \""␤»
13:54	[Tux]	not ok
13:55	nbdsp	Greetings! I'm studying the "rakudo and nqp internals course" which is dated back to 2012 and some source code seems to be deprecated and I cannot figure out why a basic example from there doesn't work. Couldn't someone take a look please?: https://github.com/nbdsp/perl6-tst/blob/master/grammars.pl6 It fails on the last line without a descriptive message.
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14:00	skids	nbdsp: the pod is eating everything I think.
14:01	[Tux]	psch, jnthn - https://gist.github.com/Tux/f6a9b0a268abb223b24e
14:03	nbdsp	skids: it runs up to the last line where it throws exception, seemingly during handling other exception, which isn't descriptive
14:04	nbdsp	The exception tells: This type does not support positional operations
14:07	skids	nbdsp: Add a CATCH block and .perl the error maybe? After removing the pod and adjusting lib, I can't get it to find HLL::Grammar.
14:08	psch	nbdsp: the rakudo and nqp internals code is NQP code, not Perl 6
14:08	psch	nbdsp: you can find the rubyish example in nqp/examples, too
14:09	nbdsp	psch: thanks! I'll look there.
14:11	skids	Heh I was just about to say -- it shhebangs perl6 but isn't this nqp :-)
14:13	psch	[Tux]: the problem seems to be somewhere in chaining the map
14:13	psch	[Tux]: when i assign the .split result to an array and map over that i get the upper output from your gist
14:13	psch	[Tux]: i suspect that might be flattening changes
14:13	psch	m: my$s=",";my$q=q{"};my$e=q{"};.perl.say for q{hello,","," ",world,"!"}.split(rx{\r\n\|\r\|\n\|$s\|$q\|$e},:all).flat.map: {if $_ ~~ Str { $_ if .chars;}else{.Str if .Bool;}}
14:13	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«"hello"␤","␤"\""␤","␤"\""␤","␤"\""␤" "␤"\""␤","␤"world"␤","␤"\""␤"!"␤"\""␤»
14:13	psch	yup, sure looks like it :)
14:14	[Tux]	psch++
14:14	psch	fwiw, that's the GLR-decided semantics, even if the GLR itself hasn't really happened yet
14:15	nbdsp	skids: I didn't know that NQP doesn't run with perl6 (I assumed it's subset). How to run NQP?
14:15	psch	nbdsp: if you have perl6 in your path you should also have nqp-$backend in your path
14:15	[Tux]	there are other failures too. might have the same casue
14:15	[Tux]	cause
14:15	psch	where $backend is m, j (or p)
14:16	nbdsp	psch: thanks! will try it
14:24	nbdsp	Seems like required 'lib.moarvm' isn't on my machine when I use '#!/usr/bin/env nqp-m' in shebang
14:25	skids	nbdsp: that's as far as I got, too.
14:25	psch	the rubyish example works here
14:26	psch	but i don't have a 'lib.moarvm' file in my perl6 install dir either
14:26	nbdsp	Thanks! Will use the example then.
14:26	psch	i suspect that's an artifact in the slides that got changed or so
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14:33	[Tux]	I see an 11% slowdown since 24-04
14:34	[Tux]	reproducible
14:49	masak	huh.
14:55	b2gills	.ask TimToady If `map` is going to be the non-flattening version of `for` should the following work: `.say map ^4` ( perhaps we need a different "keyword" since `map ^4 { .say }` is even more problematic )
14:55	yoleaux	b2gills: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
14:55	psch	b2gills: it's not about map vs for, it's about method form vs sub form
14:56	psch	(at least that's the guideline pmichaud++ stated in his blog)
14:57	b2gills	yeah but `.say for ^4` could be considered a different way to write `(^4).for({ .say })` but there isn't a way to write the former that doesn't flatten
14:58	psch	oh, right
14:58	psch	yeah, that makes sense
14:58	psch	well, the analogue is «map *.say, ^4», but that is a different syntactical construct
14:59	b2gills	I'm just thinking that `for` and `map` are going to be more or less two sides of the same coin, and I would like to see it be more rather than less ( but only if it makes sense )
14:59	psch	m: .say for $(^4) # and this, but that explicit and still "for"
14:59	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0..^4␤»
15:00	psch	i don't know if i'd like a "statementmod:<map>", but i can see the gap
15:00		ssqq joined #perl6
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15:04	b2gills	m: map *.say, (^10).rotor(3); # seems to currently be broken
15:04	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤»
15:06	ssqq	How to define non-capture re-used regex, just like `<.ws>` or `<.digit>`?
15:07	psch	ssqq: the . is what makes it non-capturing
15:07	ssqq	p6: my regex number { <.digit>+ }; say '12' ~~ / <.number> /
15:07	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«Method 'number' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'␤ in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16870␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
15:07	ssqq	p6: my regex number { <.digit>+ }; say '12' ~~ / <number> /
15:07	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«｢12｣␤ number => ｢12｣␤»
15:07	psch	m: my token foo { "foo" }; say "foo" ~~ /<.&foo>/
15:07	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«｢foo｣␤»
15:07	psch	m: my token foo { "foo" }; say "foo" ~~ /<&foo>/
15:07	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«｢foo｣␤»
15:08	psch	hm, maybe that's only inside grammars?
15:08	psch	oh, no, the first non-alpha makes it non-capturing i think
15:08	psch	i.e. invoking it as a sub with the '&'
15:08	ssqq	psch: let me test
15:08	* psch	isn't sure he remembers that correctly
15:11	b2gills	It seems to me that it should probably work just as well as the capturing variant ( i.e. both should work, or neither should work )
15:11	psch	"Whereas a leading . unambiguously calls a method, a leading & unambiguously calls a routine instead."
15:11	psch	(about 1/3 into S05)
15:12	psch	seeing as "my token { }" is a more like a lexical sub than a method it looks ok to me
15:12	psch	m: my token f { }; &f.^mro.say
15:12	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Lj82dllzAC␤Null regex not allowed␤at /tmp/Lj82dllzAC:1␤------> 3my token f { 7⏏5}; &f.^mro.say␤»
15:12	psch	m: my token f { ' ' }; &f.^mro.say
15:12	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«(Regex) (Method) (Routine) (Block) (Code) (Any) (Mu)␤»
15:13	b2gills	I guess, but that means there isn't a simple way to do the non-capturing variant outside of a grammar
15:15	psch	m: my token t { . }; say "ab" ~~ /<t><&t>/
15:15	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«｢ab｣␤ t => ｢a｣␤»
15:15	psch	looks ok to me?
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15:28	ssqq	psch: Thanks anyway.
15:32		zakharyas joined #perl6
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15:46	TimToady	b2gills: vv yes, I've been thinking about that for some time as well
15:46	yoleaux	14:55Z <b2gills> TimToady: If `map` is going to be the non-flattening version of `for` should the following work: `.say map ^4` ( perhaps we need a different "keyword" since `map ^4 { .say }` is even more problematic )
15:47		gcole joined #perl6
15:51	TimToady	and the listop form is not broken because listops typically flatten
15:51	tony-o	m: say $*PERL.version.perl;
15:51	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«Version.new('unknown')␤»
15:51	tony-o	m: say $*PERL.perl;
15:51	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«Perl.new(compiler => Compiler.new(release => "", build-date => DateTime.new(year => 2015, month => 4, day => 25, hour => 14, minute => 13, second => 21), codename => "", name => "rakudo", auth => "The Perl Foundation", version => Version.new('2015.4.51.g.0…»
15:51	TimToady	m: m: map *.say, (^10).rotor(3); # flat
15:51	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤»
15:51	TimToady	m: m: map *.say, lol (^10).rotor(3); # flat
15:51	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8␤»
15:51	TimToady	m: m: map *.say, lol \|(^10).rotor(3); # flat
15:51	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0 1 2␤3 4 5␤6 7 8␤»
15:52	TimToady	*not flat
15:52	tony-o	why is the version unknown ?
15:52	TimToady	m: m: map *.say, (^10).rotor(3).lol; # not flat
15:52	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«ListIter.new␤»
15:52	TimToady	m: m: map *.say, (^10).rotor(3).tree; # not flat
15:52	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8␤»
15:52	TimToady	hmm
15:52	TimToady	m: m: map *.say, \|(^10).rotor(3).tree; # not flat
15:52	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0 1 2␤3 4 5␤6 7 8␤»
15:53	tony-o	m: m: map *.say, \|((^10).rotor(3));
15:53	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤»
15:53	TimToady	we currently have some functions returning parcels of parcels, where the outer parcel needs to flatten but the inner ones don't
15:53	tony-o	m: m: map *.say, lol (^10).rotor(3,0);
15:53	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ␤»
15:53	tony-o	m: m: map *.say, lol (^10).rotor(3);
15:53	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8␤»
15:54	TimToady	currently we require a \| to strip that outer parcel
15:57	TimToady	same reason [Z] @lists has to be [Z] \|@lists
15:58	TimToady	not sure it would be sane to try to intuit that...
16:02	TimToady	up till now we've had the (in my opinion) highly sane policy that one call produces one argument, and only * slurpies violate that by flattening, throwing away all argument boundaries (and parens)
16:02	TimToady	but lol and [Z] are not , they're *, which goes back to respecting argument boundaries, and therefore need \| to make one argument into several
16:04	TimToady	I don't see any way to simplify that, offhand, without the waterbed bloojing out somewhere else
16:04	TimToady	anyway, the listop form of map is *, so is not broken by current design
16:05	TimToady	rather, you're expected to do something like this:
16:05	TimToady	m: m: map -> $a, $b, $c { "$a $b $c".say }, (^10).rotor(3); # flat
16:05	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«0 1 2␤3 4 5␤6 7 8␤»
16:06	TimToady	(or use lol or tree)
16:08	* timotimo	lols @ trees
16:08	TimToady	likewise, the current answer to the missing statement_control:sym<map> is to use something like 'for lol ... {...}' instead
16:09	TimToady	but we could bikeshed a new statement control if that gets bothersome
16:12	TimToady	or find some way to write any foo {...},LIST as foo LIST {...}, if we want something with a little more leverage
16:14	TimToady	the early proposals for *& parameters allowed motion of the block to the end of the list, à la Ruby, but this sort of thing, while it makes sense for a block-only function like 'map', makes less sense for a block-or-other-matcher like 'grep'
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16:18	TimToady	</soliloquy>
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16:34	mr_ron	m: my uint16 @a; @a[2] = 5; say 'ok ', @a.perl; my uint16 %h; %h{"abc"} = 2
16:34	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«ok array[uint16].new(0, 0, 5)␤Type check failed in assignment to '%h'; expected 'uint16' but got 'Int'␤ in method ASSIGN-KEY at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:12412␤ in sub postcircumfix:<{ }> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3715␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/N9uD…»
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16:39	mr_ron	m: my uint16 @a; @a[2] = 5; say "ok ", @a.perl; my Int %h_ok; %h_ok{"def"}= 7; say "ok ", %h_ok.perl;my uint16 %h; %h{"abc"} = 2
16:39	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«ok array[uint16].new(0, 0, 5)␤ok Hash[Int].new("def" => 7)␤Type check failed in assignment to '%h'; expected 'uint16' but got 'Int'␤ in method ASSIGN-KEY at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:12412␤ in sub postcircumfix:<{ }> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3715…»
16:39	mr_ron	think bug with hashes of native types
16:39	timotimo	hm. not sure if we have any code in place for that yet?
16:40	mr_ron	you have it for arrays of native types and hashes of non-native types ... it seems
16:40	psch	eh, it's double borked, from the looks of it
16:41	psch	it builds the Hash of Int according to .perl, but still typechecks for uint16?
16:41	mr_ron	you did notice they are two different hashes %h_ok and %h
16:41	psch	oh, no i didn't :)
16:42	psch	in that case, nevermind
16:42	psch	m: my int %h; say %h.perl # yeah looks fine
16:42	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«Hash[int].new()␤»
16:43	timotimo	the question is: does it still store scalars inside to hold the values?
16:43	mr_ron	m: my int %h; %h{"abc"} = 4
16:43	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '%h'; expected 'int' but got 'Int'␤ in method ASSIGN-KEY at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:12412␤ in sub postcircumfix:<{ }> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3715␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_xS_uczDVE:1␤␤»
16:43	psch	m: my int %h; say %h<a>.VAR # ... not sure?
16:43	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«int␤»
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16:46	mr_ron	Ok to file rt bug report?
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16:49	mr_ron	m: my int %h; %h<abc> = 4
16:49	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '%h'; expected 'int' but got 'Int'␤ in method ASSIGN-KEY at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:12412␤ in sub postcircumfix:<{ }> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:3715␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/oAgewnT9yg:1␤␤»
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17:04	dfarrell	Hi everyone. I'm working on a Grammar for Perl 5 pod (https://github.com/dnmfarrell/Pod-Perl5) but am getting a "Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2" error when using the grammar on pod containing "=item". Any ideas how this error relates to regex/grammars? It parses basic pod OK ...
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17:05	psch	m: say Grammar.^can('item')
17:05	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«item␤»
17:06	* psch	wonders how to look up where an inherited method comes from...
17:06	psch	m: say Any.^can('item')
17:06	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«item␤»
17:06	psch	dfarrell: ^^^ that's basically the problem. i think we have a ticket for it already somewhere
17:06	psch	at least if i'm remembering that correctly...
17:07	psch	m: grammar G { token TOP { <Str> }; token Str { . } }; say G.parse("f") # similarly
17:07	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«Cannot call Str(Mu: Match); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:U \v: %_)␤ (Mu:D: %_)␤ in regex Str at /tmp/128ST7wrK_:1␤ in regex TOP at /tmp/128ST7wrK_:1␤ in method parse at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16842␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/1…»
17:08	dfarrell	ergh, my message got garbled :( Any ideas how a regex or grammar could generate a "Too many positionals passed" error?
17:08	psch	yeah, #77350
17:08	synbot6	Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=77350
17:09	dfarrell	ah ok, great. thanks!
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17:19	dfarrell	psch: thanks for the detail, I renamed the token and it works great!
17:30	psch	"If the innermost lexical block happens to be the main block of a Routine, then &?BLOCK just returns the Block object, not the Routine object that contains it."
17:30	psch	i'm wondering how that's supposed to work out, when Routine is Block
17:31	psch	S06:The &?BLOCK object
17:31	synbot6	Link: http://design.perl6.org/S06.html#The
17:31	psch	S06:The_&?BLOCK_object
17:31	synbot6	Link: http://design.perl6.org/S06.html#The_
17:31	psch	:/
17:31	psch	http://design.perl6.org/S06.html#The_&?BLOCK_object
17:32	psch	hm, there's also RT #66632
17:32	synbot6	Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=66632
17:32	psch	i'm fuzzy on the timeline, was that before nom?
17:32	psch	or did it just regress
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17:57	psch	hm, my &?BLOCK attempts break somewhere in CompUnit...
18:05	psch	well, what's spec'd leads me to believe that the relationship between Block and Routine has to be redesigned, if the speculations aren't to be changed
18:06	psch	on the other hand, roast has rather little on &?BLOCK, so maybe specifying it different is an option
18:06	FROGGS	what's the issue?
18:06	psch	"If the innermost lexical block happens to be the main block of a Routine, then &?BLOCK just returns the Block object, not the Routine object that contains it."
18:06	psch	but Routine isa Block
18:07	psch	http://design.perl6.org/S06.html#The_&?BLOCK_object
18:07	FROGGS	ahh
18:07	psch	but there's less than 20 occurances of '&?BLOCK' in roast, and most of them test .leave
18:08	psch	the only thing that explicitly tests block is the anon recursive block idiom in the spec link above
18:09	psch	i don't think that 'Inside the outermost block of a routine, &?BLOCK and &?ROUTINE refer to the same object.' would be a good choice, but what we have doesn't really support what we have in specs
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18:14	masak_grr	today's autopun spotting: https://twitter.com/aloria/status/591424398306992128
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18:25	FROGGS	huh, "It's not just you! http://ebay.de looks down from here."
18:25	FROGGS	ahh, there it is
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18:57	moritz	masak: was there anything wrong with hack?
18:58		vendethiel joined #perl6
19:03	masak	moritz: not to my knowledge, no.
19:04	masak	moritz: I didn't lose the connection; just got netsplit away from my actual nick.
19:05	moritz	masak: ok
19:05	moritz	hack has been up for 29 days
19:05	moritz	I guess it's safe-ish to assume the hangups have gone
19:06	FROGGS	I think so too
19:06	moritz	FROGGS: are your cron jobs running again?
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19:07	FROGGS	moritz: like a duracel bunny :o)
19:11	FROGGS	nqp-m: say(nqp::istype(QAST::Want, QAST::Node))
19:11	camelia	nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«1␤»
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19:34	dalek	roast: b33c2b4 \| FROGGS++ \| S32-container/zip.t:
19:34	dalek	roast: /._join/.flat.join/
19:34	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b33c2b4d1b
19:38	dalek	rakudo/nom: d0a84bc \| FROGGS++ \| src/ (2 files):
19:38	dalek	rakudo/nom: symbolic indirect subrules in regexes
19:38	dalek	rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d0a84bcf0f
19:41	dalek	roast: ec15161 \| FROGGS++ \| S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.t:
19:41	dalek	roast: unfuge/adjust test for indirect subrules
19:41	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ec15161310
19:42	ugexe	m: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7; for @a.rotor(4,:partial) { say $_.perl }; # is this not supposed to return [1,2,3,4],[5,6,7] anymore?
19:42	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤»
19:44	TimToady	the slices are no longer itemized, and for flattens by default
19:44	TimToady	m: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7; for @a.rotor(4,:partial).tree { say $_.perl }
19:44	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4; 5, 6, 7).item␤»
19:44	psch	std: &1 # what's a good panic message for this?
19:44	camelia	std 28329a7: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 138m␤»
19:45	psch	(and it should be one, according to RT #72820
19:45	synbot6	Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=72820
19:45	psch	)
19:45	TimToady	m: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7; for lol \|@a.rotor(4,:partial) { say $_.perl }
19:45	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«$(1, 2, 3, 4)␤$(5, 6, 7)␤»
19:45	psch	currently i'm jumping out of <variable>, which results in "Name must begin with alphabetic character"
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19:45	TimToady	m: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5,6,7; @a.rotor(4,:partial).map: { say $_.perl }
19:45	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4)␤(5, 6, 7)␤»
19:46	TimToady	well, it's true that it would work better if you said &foo :)
19:46	ugexe	cool. i saw the commit but didnt know what to make of it. thanks
19:46	psch	m: "a" ~~ /(a)/; say &0;
19:46	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤»
19:46	psch	TimToady: ^^^ that's what behind my question :)
19:47	psch	+is
19:47	TimToady	m: "a" ~~ /(a)/; say &0.WHAT
19:47	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«(Match)␤»
19:47	TimToady	m: "a" ~~ /(a)/; say &0.()
19:47	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'postcircumfix:<( )>'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/2t6awwvM34:1␤␤»
19:48	TimToady	I guess it's not enforcing the Callable
19:48	psch	Actions::variable treats & as $, actually
19:48	psch	i don't know if a Callable is spec'd in some capacity for matches
19:48	TimToady	not yet :)
19:49	psch	so bail with "calling a Match object as a Subroutine is reserved to be specified or forbidden"? :)
19:49	psch	s/Subroutine/Routine/
19:50	psch	s/bail/die/ # maybe
19:51	psch	anyway, it's one of the bugs that's in reach for me right now and staring at jvminterop didn't bring much about once again today
19:51	psch	if it's nothing particularly important it can sit around as-is, i suppose
19:52	FROGGS	I also tackled regex stuff right now because I don't make progress with the compunit stuff atm
19:55	vendethiel	m: say do for ^10 { .succ when 5..10 }.sort(* > *) # are we ruby?
19:55	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«6 7 8 9 10␤»
19:56	* psch	.oO( ...or are we dancer? )
19:56	vendethiel	m: say (^10).map: { $^a * 3 }; (^10).map: $^a * 3;
19:56	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/hmhqu1Bzlp␤Cannot use placeholder parameter $^a in the mainline␤at /tmp/hmhqu1Bzlp:1␤------> 3y (^10).map: { $^a * 3 }; (^10).map: $^a7⏏5 * 3;␤»
19:57	vendethiel	m: for <hey there love> { .say if any(.split('')) eq <o y> }; # is there any "shorter" than any(Str.split(''))?
19:57	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: ( no output )
20:01	psch	vendethiel: see #moarvm, if you're willing to go «for ... <-> $_ { ... }» instead
20:02	psch	but then you probably need a copy, which makes it less shorter
20:02	psch	m: for <hey there love> <-> $_ { .say if tr/yo/yo/ > 1 }; # is there any "shorter" than any(Str.split(''))?
20:02	camelia	rakudo-moar 0c197c: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Str␤ in sub infix:<=> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:22105␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/tUL434iwch:1␤␤»
20:02	psch	huh
20:02	psch	that i expected to work
20:02	psch	it's rw $_, right?
20:04	psch	eh, nevermind, i didn't even count characters
20:04	masak	psch: problem is, you're looping over constant string values.
20:04	FROGGS	it is, but you cannot change literals
20:04	masak	psch: you'd need them to be containers.
20:04	psch	it's probably shorter, but i don't want to count now
20:04	masak	psch: `$_ is copy` would work there.
20:05	psch	masak, FROGGS: right. just when i thought i was getting a hang of this container stuff yesterday :)
20:05	FROGGS	g
20:05	psch	with "is copy" it's probably not shorter anymore...
20:05	psch	there's still «.match(any(<y o>))» i suppose
20:06	masak	we should add `+> $_` to mean `-> $_ is copy` :P
20:07	masak	(P.S. I was not serious. don't add that)
20:07	* psch	shudders at the Perl6/Grammar.nqp changes
20:07	psch	actually, Actions.nqp
20:08	psch	not Grammar.nqp
20:08	psch	but yeah, don't
20:08	psch	i'll push the fix for 72820 as-is, with a remark in the commit message that the message could be improved
20:08	psch	which will probably involve redirecting where it gets thrown, which might make the patch actually somewhat of a bad idea
20:08	psch	...which makes me question my decision to push it
20:09	psch	see, that's why i asked in the first place! :P
20:09	FROGGS	:P
20:10	vendethiel	psch: <-> is the default for $_, afaik
20:11	* vendethiel	tried it already, "back then" ;-)
20:11	psch	vendethiel: right, as masak++ said you'd need «is copy»
20:11	vendethiel	yep, that much I remember
20:12	vendethiel	psch++: good find on .match(any()) tho
20:12	psch	i do thinks .match is the most sensible... yeah
20:17	psch	re: RT #72820: i'll go with "'Match variables are meaningless with the &-sigil. Did you mean $' ~ $<index> ~ '?'" as an untyped panic for now
20:17	synbot6	Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=72820
20:17	psch	although maybe it should be "Positional captures" instead of "Match variables"...
20:18	psch	'Positional captures cannot be referenced with the &-sigil. Did you mean $' ~ $<index> ~ ', %' ~ $<index> ~ ' or @' ~ $<index>'?
20:18	psch	that's going in :P
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20:23	TimToady	m: for <hey there love> { .say if /y\|o/ }
20:23	camelia	rakudo-moar d0a84b: OUTPUT«hey␤love␤»
20:24	vendethiel	TimToady: yeah, good point (except maybe when you have lotta sigils, then <[]>?), but I'm still wondering about .split('') (which isn't that bad, really)
20:25	TimToady	.comb is better than .split('')
20:25	vendethiel	noted, thanks!
20:25	* vendethiel	goes off for the doc to re-read aboutcomb
20:26	jepeway	ahoy, the ship o' #perl6
20:26	TimToady	and you can't do eq <o y> and get implicit any on that rhs
20:27	dalek	ecosystem: 6e42f02 \| (Nick Logan)++ \| META.list:
20:27	dalek	ecosystem: Update META.list
20:27	dalek	ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/6e42f021da
20:27	TimToady	that would be equivalent ot eq 'o y'
20:27	TimToady	*to
20:27	tadzik	oh, is zef the new panda? :)
20:28	vendethiel	TimToady: well, yeah, but any <foo> works, doesn't it?
20:29	* jepeway	is again with the questions
20:29	TimToady	sure, but your any was on the other side
20:29	ugexe	tadzik: more for working with a different auth than github
20:29	vendethiel	ah, yes, that a code-simplification mistake. it's correct in my original code :)
20:30	vendethiel	that was*. good catch still
20:30	jepeway	m: { m/(<-[:]>) : (.)/; say "[$0] [$1]" } for "one:1"
20:30	camelia	rakudo-moar d0a84b: OUTPUT«[one] [:1]␤»
20:30	jepeway	why does 2nd capture contain a : ?
20:31	TimToady	because : is a metacharacter
20:31	vendethiel	m: { m/(<-[:]>) ':' (.)/; say "[$0] [$1]" } for "one:1"
20:31	camelia	rakudo-moar d0a84b: OUTPUT«[one] [1]␤»
20:31	jepeway	oh.
20:31	TimToady	the rule is very simple now; anything that isn't alphanumeric is to be considered meta
20:32	jepeway	ah.
20:32	TimToady	no more lists of metacharacters to memorize and be wrong on :)
20:33	* jepeway	will dig it, once he gets it
20:33	TimToady	it also leaves a lot more wiggle room in the syntax than the old regex syntax ever did
20:33	TimToady	so we're a lot more evolution friendly now
20:34	jepeway	what did the unquoted meta : mean? empty/null adverb?
20:34	TimToady	don't backtrack into the previous token
20:35	TimToady	basically, that's what underlies :ratchet semantics
20:36	vendethiel	(with its friends "::" and ":::", which are NYI iirc)
20:38	jepeway	oh, my. never really held got a working understanding of re backtracking.
20:42	arnsholt	: in regexes is like cut in Prolog, in case you've learned that
20:44	jepeway	never prologged.
20:44		mohij joined #perl6
20:49	dalek	roast: d214528 \| FROGGS++ \| fudge:
20:49	dalek	roast: allow to skip for a matching Perl 6 language version
20:49	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d214528bc6
20:49	dalek	roast: 28588a0 \| FROGGS++ \| S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.t:
20:49	dalek	roast: skip test for Perl 6 not for compilers
20:49	dalek	roast:
20:49	dalek	roast: The tested code is reserved so we skip it because of Perl 6.
20:49	dalek	roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/28588a08d5
20:56		gcole joined #perl6
21:33	* jepeway	, if he were smart, would take the opportunity to grok back-tracking. instead...
21:34	jepeway	I'm seeing inconsistencies in how open() behaves when the paths it's point to non-existent files.
21:35	jepeway	sometimes, I see "Failed to open file PAK: no such file or directory"
21:35	jepeway	sometimes, I see "Failed to open file @: no such file or directory"
21:36	jepeway	sometimes, I see "Malformed UTF-8 at line 1 col 21"
21:36	jepeway	a shell transcript of these @ https://gist.github.com/cjepeway/2142e6d9e7aa7171c34d#file-p6-open-transcript
21:37	jepeway	hepl?
21:39	geekosaur	sounds like an uninitialized chunk of memory somewhere
21:39	jepeway	kinda thought the same
21:40		kst joined #perl6
21:41	raydiak	confirmed, you get random new errors on each open even to the same filename
21:42	RabidGravy	yeah
21:43	jepeway	ok, so...bug report? or is the clog for this session good enough?
21:43	RabidGravy	similar to what you see with passing an unmanaged string to a const char *
21:43	RabidGravy	bug it
21:44	jepeway	pointer to bug tracker?
21:45	* jepeway	erk...googles...
21:45	raydiak	mail rakudobugperl.org and start the subject with [BUG]
21:46	raydiak	m: for ^20 { CATCH { say $_.Str.lines[0]; next; }; open "foobar" }
21:46	camelia	rakudo-moar d0a84b: OUTPUT«open is disallowed in restricted setting␤open is disallowed in restricted setting␤open is disallowed in restricted setting␤open is disallowed in restricted setting␤open is disallowed in restricted setting␤open is disallowed in restricted setting…»
21:46	raydiak	:P
21:49	RabidGravy	makes sense or you could have it cracking all its passwords in a few minutes ;-)
21:50		breinbaas joined #perl6
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21:56	masak	'night, #perl6
21:57	jepeway	dream well, masak.
21:57	jepeway	bugged. RT #124391
21:57	synbot6	Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=124391
21:59	RabidGravy	jepeway, my suspicion with that is that a string managed by perl is being passed to perror() somewhere along the way
22:00	RabidGravy	the malformed utf-8 is just going to happen when the garbage on the heap causes it
22:00	jepeway	ah, yes.
22:02	nebuchadnezzar	hello
22:04	nebuchadnezzar	masak: I just read http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/here-be-heredocs, thanks a lot, but for the troll, I think mixing tabs and space is sane when they convey semantic http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/SmartTabs ;-)
22:04	RabidGravy	evening,
22:04	dalek	rakudo-star-daily: a4a9121 \| coke++ \| log/ (2 files):
22:04	dalek	rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
22:04	dalek	rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/a4a91211d6
22:04	dalek	perl6-roast-data: a7ed2eb \| coke++ \| / (9 files):
22:04	dalek	perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
22:04	dalek	perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/a7ed2ebeb4
22:12	jepeway	a la - char s[999] = "failed to open "; perror(strcat(s, path)); -- with path a perl data structure, perhaps, and not a C string
22:15	RabidGravy	yeah, though it may be the exact line
22:15	RabidGravy	./nqp/MoarVM/src/io/syncfile.c: MVM_exception_throw_adhoc(tc, "Failed toopen file %s: %s", fname, uv_strerror(req.result));
22:20	jepeway	heh, just found that, too.
22:20	jepeway	there's an MVM_free(fname) right before that line.
22:20	jepeway	seems...suspicious.
22:21	jepeway	dunno whether there's fancy-pants ref counting or whatnot that might make the _free() call safe, mind you.
22:23	jepeway	uh..no, that's just a wrapper around free().
22:24	RabidGravy	oops
22:24	jepeway	yup.
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22:36	jepeway	updated RT with these findings.
22:38		bjz joined #perl6
22:39	jepeway	wonder where a test for this belongs. are error messages part of MoarVM's contract, eg?
22:42	RabidGravy	it's nqp's problem :)
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22:46	dalek	ecosystem: c024bff \| (Nick Logan)++ \| META.list:
22:46	dalek	ecosystem: fix META.info url
22:46	dalek	ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/c024bffa97
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23:05	jepeway	then there's...
23:05	jepeway	m: role A { multi method a(Int $i) {...}; multi method a(Str $s) {...}; }; class B does A { multi method a(Int $i){0}; multi method a(Str $s) {"a"}; } ; B.new.a(0).say
23:05	camelia	rakudo-moar d0a84b: OUTPUT«Ambiguous call to 'a'; these signatures all match:␤:(B $: Int $i, %_)␤:(B $: Int $i, %_)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/0ILm1pfWyW:1␤␤»
23:06	jepeway	which timotimo and TimToady thought might be a bug.
23:07	jepeway	no harm in bugging that, too, is there?
23:09		bjz joined #perl6
23:10	dalek	ecosystem: 7e40d88 \| (Nick Logan)++ \| META.list:
23:10	dalek	ecosystem: revert url correction, im an idiot
23:10	dalek	ecosystem:
23:10	dalek	ecosystem: Project's META.info was incorrect, not the url. 3rd times a charm
23:10	dalek	ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/7e40d88c55
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23:20	jepeway	well.
23:21	jepeway	I tried to follow-up on the file name problem by responding to the auto-email confirmation I got.
23:21	jepeway	but I don't see the text of my followup in the RT.
23:25	jepeway	ah, well, added it to the gist in case somebody looks.
23:27	jepeway	thanks, all, for the help with this. 1st rakudo bug, huzzah!
23:29	jepeway	and 2nd is RT #124392, for the stub methods in roles.
23:29	synbot6	Link: https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=124392
23:29	TimToady	jepeway++
23:30	* jepeway	is kinda beaming, here
23:33	TimToady	I'm sure we can think of something discouraging if you need it. :)
23:46		gcole joined #perl6
23:48	jepeway	nope, passing on that kind offer.
23:48	jepeway	:)
23:48	jepeway	well, splitsville for me, now. hope to be back tomorrow.
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