Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-05-04

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:01 timotimo oh?
00:01 timotimo you mean as in: "that's ugly"?
00:01 rjbs http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-04-02#i_10382903
00:01 rjbs I also have no idea what it means or why it needs to be there, but that may just mean that beginners need to learn more stuff than I have yet.
00:03 timotimo it's the difference between [1, 2, 3] and (1, 2, 3), for example
00:03 timotimo m: my @test = 1, (4, 5, 6), 10; say @test.perl
00:03 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«[1, 4, 5, 6, 10]<>␤»
00:03 timotimo m: my @test = 1, [4, 5, 6], 10; say @test.perl
00:03 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«[1, [4, 5, 6], 10]<>␤»
00:03 timotimo m: my @test = 1, [4, 5, 6]<>, 10; say @test.perl
00:03 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«[1, 4, 5, 6, 10]<>␤»
00:03 timotimo the <> gets the (...) out of a [...], more or less
00:04 rjbs Blah.
00:04 timotimo so flattening vs non-flattenin, basically
00:06 rjbs m: say {:a(1)}.perl; my %h = {:a(1)}.perl; say %h.perl
00:06 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«{:a(1)}␤Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Xu8ss4GztQ:1␤␤»
00:06 rjbs oops
00:06 rjbs m: say {:a(1)}.perl; my %h = {:a(1)}; say %h.perl
00:06 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«{:a(1)}␤{:a(1)}<>␤Saw 1 call to deprecated code during execution.␤%h = itemized hash called at:␤  /tmp/Hz41QBqcm3, line 1␤Deprecated since v2014.7, will be removed with release v2015.7!␤Please use %h = %(itemized hash) instead.␤»
00:06 rjbs Hm.
00:07 rjbs Why don't I see that warning when I'm running my perl6?
00:07 rjbs But the real thing I wanted ot ask is: why does only the latter get <>?
00:07 rjbs Oh, because deprecations come outa at the end.
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00:39 rjbs Here is the terrible perl6 program I wrote to build a "hello world" program binary that runs on the Z-Machine: https://github.com/rjbs/ZMachine-Whiz/blob/master/whiz.p6
00:39 timotimo i know pretty much nothing about how a z machine works
00:40 timotimo what is ZSCII?
00:40 rjbs It's the internal string representation used by Z-Machine.  More in a sec...
00:40 * rjbs pushes a tiny improvement.
00:41 rjbs Z-Machine text has a character set with 10 bits of characters, but inpractice only 255 codepoints are used.  Characters are encoded into a five-bit-based representation, with three quints packed into a word, with the high bit marking end-of-string.
00:43 timotimo ah, ok
00:44 timotimo that probably works a bit better than pascal-style strings
00:46 rjbs The high bit thing isn't bad, but everything else is a mild pita.
00:47 timotimo mhm
00:47 timotimo weird packing
00:49 rjbs timotimo: ZSCII: http://rjbs.manxome.org/rubric/entry/2014
00:51 timotimo thanks :)
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01:04 colomon rjbs++
01:04 timotimo i'm currently playing a lot with valgrind
01:04 rjbs next, I may port p5 ZMachine::ZSCII to replace my lousy p6 one.
01:04 timotimo the interaction between the GC and the nursery and such is ... interesting %)
01:08 timotimo i may just call "no more error reports for now please" before the gc starts and "you can resume error reporting again!" after the gc is finished
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01:58 rjbs I'm looking for, but failing to find, docs on an enumerated type.  What's the simplest way to declare an attribute that's known to be one of three values?
01:58 rjbs Algebraic or choice-of-string, either way. :)
02:01 raiph rjbs: http://doc.perl6.org/type/EnumMap ?
02:07 rjbs Documentation is a bit thin, but I'm not sure that's what I want.  I want, say:  has OneOf<<pie cake pudding>> $.favorite;
02:08 rjbs or: type Dessert = Pie | Cake | Pudding; if I may wax a bit MLish.
02:09 rjbs I will read any reply happily in the morning.  I am falling asleep at my terminal.  Good night!
02:10 leedo_ rjbs: i think it could be done with a subtype, but i don't see a way to do it as one line
02:14 japhb .tell rjbs If only keys matter: 'enum Foo < Bar Baz Quux >;' or if you need to pick specific values, use pairs: 'enum Foo :Bar(-12), Baz(16), Quux(42);'
02:14 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to rjbs.
02:14 japhb Dangit
02:14 leedo_ ah, maybe has Str $.favorite where /Cake|Pie|Pudding/; ?
02:14 japhb .tell rjbs (sorry, typo) If only keys matter: 'enum Foo < Bar Baz Quux >;' or if you need to pick specific values, use pairs: 'enum Foo :Bar(-12), :Baz(16), :Quux(42);'
02:14 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to rjbs.
02:16 japhb .tell rjbs Then you can use the enum type in declarations:  'my Foo $choices;' or 'has Foo $subtype;'
02:16 yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to rjbs.
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03:10 ugexe m: class A {}; class B {}; class C {}; class D {}; my $a where A|B|C; $a = A.new; say 1; my $b where A|B|C; $b = D.new;
03:10 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«1␤Type check failed in assignment to '$b'; expected '<anon>' but got 'D'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/TKohyOC9Xr:1␤␤»
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03:43 leedo_ ugexe: i noticed that when trying it on the repl as well
03:44 leedo_ m: my Str $a where /A/; $a = "B";
03:44 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$a'; expected '<anon>' but got 'Str'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/QIOhSPg7_H:1␤␤»
03:44 leedo_ oh, guess that is actually a better error message than i remembered!
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04:22 BenGoldberg m: class A {}; class B {}; class C {}; class D {}; my $a where A|B|C; $a .= new; $a.say;
04:22 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding mutate; expected 'Any' but got '<anon>'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ZPA6sNVNr2:1␤␤»
04:23 BenGoldberg m: class A {}; my $a where A; $a .= new;
04:23 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding mutate; expected 'Any' but got '<anon>'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/KhChI3MHYG:1␤␤»
04:23 BenGoldberg m: class A {}; class B {}; my $a where A; $a = B.new;
04:23 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$a'; expected '<anon>' but got 'B'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/xQkN4YeBW7:1␤␤»
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05:49 [Tux] o/ good morning perl6 crowd
05:51 [Tux] Though I am (very) happy to see panda (and thus Slang::Tuxic) back in business again, Inline::Perl5 shows some new fails
05:56 [Tux] https://gist.github.com/Tux/8fc93bc87e4e60a1c83e
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06:25 masak morning, #perl6! \o
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06:35 moritz \o masak
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06:50 labster morning /^m/
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07:17 * masak is proud to be a card-carrying /^m/ member
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07:24 nwc10 ENOEM :-)
07:27 RabidGravy marning
07:29 labster morning /\d$/, *.condiment
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07:38 labster I wrote a blog comparing the major revisions in Python 3 and PHP 6^H7 to Perl 6, mainly about the scope of the projects and the community response. http://blog.brentlaabs.com/2015/05/three-tales-of-second-system-syndrome.html
07:38 labster Not sure if it's any good, but I was somewhat inspired after reading some insults about PHP on Hacker News.
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07:52 dalek doc: 7dcccbe | (Jonathan Stowe)++ | lib/Language/concurrency.pod:
07:52 dalek doc: earliest
07:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7dcccbe355
07:52 dalek doc: 2460f90 | (Jonathan Stowe)++ | / (3 files):
07:52 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
07:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2460f905a7
07:52 dalek doc: ac5f0a4 | (Jonathan Stowe)++ | lib/ (4 files):
07:52 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
07:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ac5f0a4f2e
07:52 DrForr If the insults are from "fractal of bad design" then I'd look for fresher insult material :)
07:53 dalek doc: 679c478 | (Jonathan Stowe)++ | lib/Language/testing.pod:
07:53 dalek doc: replace _ names with hyphen ones
07:53 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/679c478f2e
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08:07 RabidGravy labster, good article
08:14 RabidGravy (shared to Perl Developers group on FB)
08:14 DrForr So I just saw.
08:14 RabidGravy if nothing else it lures out the strange PHP advocates
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08:19 lizmat good morning, #perl6!
08:19 lizmat labster++   # excellent blog post
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08:28 masak where? where? :)
08:30 labster Thanks lizmat, RabidGravy.  I was a little worried that my article appeared in Perl Weekly before I had any feedback.
08:31 lizmat masak: http://blog.brentlaabs.com/2015/05/three-tales-of-second-system-syndrome.html
08:31 labster Also trolling PHP advocates is something I want to do after every time I have to program something in PHP.
08:32 DrForr I'm convinced PHP has more to do with Stockholm Syndrome than actual programming.
08:34 jnthn morning, #perl6
08:34 RabidGravy marnin'
08:35 lizmat jnthn o/
08:36 nwc10 dear Tiobe, where is last month's article? Oh, wait, I see...
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08:37 jnthn .oO( "This is our biased estimate" )
08:37 nwc10 I guess they're doing a year-on-year comparison because they've fixed a bug, as COBOL is now at 27
08:38 nwc10 you're too kind.
08:38 nwc10 science is stuff you can repeat.
08:38 nwc10 Tiobe is not science. It's not even close.
08:38 nwc10 at least you can put real shit on your roses.
08:38 DrForr Voudoun.
08:41 RabidGravy the PHP is most of the reason I started https://github.com/jonathanstowe/Emitria infact now given that it's likely not to be finished this year I am probably going to actually do it in P6
08:42 RabidGravy of course more yak shaving in the latter course
08:46 DrForr Oh, that's why you were asking about icecast on that particular FB thread.
08:46 labster RabidGravy: them yaks aren't gonna shave themselves.
08:48 RabidGravy DrForr, yep ;-) I have an interim strategy based on a NativeCall binding to libshout but it would be nice to have it done completely natively
08:49 DrForr I'll probably put up readline this weekend...
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08:50 RabidGravy yay!
08:51 DrForr I haven't gotten around to the callback setup, but the binding doesn't crash.
08:52 DrForr It needs documentation, that'll be this week.
08:52 DrForr And the ANTLR binding handles basic stuff as well.
08:53 RabidGravy :-)
08:53 Ven_ \o, #perl6
08:54 RabidGravy erp
08:54 * DrForr considers a NativeCall binding for libmarpa.
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08:59 lizmat jnthn: can I safely die in a Lock.protect block ?
08:59 btyler DrForr: it would probably be a good thing to drop into #marpa and ask about that -- I know someone asking about python bindings recently received a message which wasn't quite "yes, go for it!", since there's a lot of work going on to modularize and de-XS the user-facing bits of marpa (as I understand it)
09:00 DrForr Thanks.
09:00 |Tux| who to poke for NativeCall (Inline::Perl5)?
09:00 jnthn lizmat: Yeah, the LEAVE should make sure the lock is released.
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09:00 btyler (I started lurking in #marpa because I had a similar brainwave about NativeCall bindings for it)
09:01 jnthn lizmat: Or however Lock.protect implements it. But it has release-on-LEAVE semantics, anyway.
09:01 lizmat and that LEAVE is added automagically, right ?
09:01 lizmat ok
09:01 DrForr Pretty tiny channel.
09:02 lizmat jnthn: if a Lock.protect block is in a sub, I should be able to return out of it, or not?
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09:02 btyler yeah. mostly a message distribution point for the author to mention what's going on and solicit feedback on ideas for areas to focus on
09:03 btyler but active more days than not, I'd say
09:03 lizmat .oO( I just saw a 'Attempt to return outside of any Routine' :-( )
09:04 jnthn lizmat: Should be able to provided you aren't doing something crazy like being in a start block :)
09:05 lizmat hmmm... will try to reproduce later
09:06 jnthn OK. I'm planning to work on concurrency things a bit later today
09:06 btyler DrForr: here's the log about python bindings: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/marpa/2015-04-29#i_10521295
09:06 |Tux| https://gist.github.com/Tux/8fc93bc87e4e60a1c83e just to draw jnthn's attention :P\
09:07 DrForr Thanks, reading.
09:09 jnthn [Tux]: Are those with RT #s considered still not fixed?
09:09 |Tux| one sec. those are uncolored
09:10 jnthn But the gist is colorless!
09:10 |Tux| 1, 2, 4, 6, and 13 are fixed
09:10 |Tux| https://gist.github.com/Tux/8fc93bc87e4e60a1c83e
09:10 RabidGravy jnthn, I was going to look at Channel::EARLIEST later, if you're going to be in there I'll leave it a bit
09:11 jnthn RabidGravy: No, I was planning to look for lower level issues than that.
09:11 * |Tux| currently unale to create screenshot :(
09:11 RabidGravy okay cool
09:15 |Tux| screenshot /should/ be available on http://tux.nl/Files/20150504111202.png
09:16 jnthn [Tux]: It ain't but no worries.
09:16 * jnthn can delete lines from text :)
09:16 lizmat can anybody tell me *why* PERL6LIB/RAKUDOLIB use ":" (or ";" on Win) as path separator, instead of just something like "," ?
09:16 lizmat is that something todo with distributions needing that?  or some OS's ?
09:17 |Tux| jnthn, I am more worried about the errors at the bottom of that gist than I am about the problems listed in the header
09:18 nwc10 dear wise ones, is there a thing for which the assumption is "as soon as you figure out the rules, they change them" ?
09:19 lizmat Heisenbug ?
09:21 nwc10 anything more sentient than that?
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09:21 RabidGravy nwc10, see Kafka's The Trial for reference
09:21 DrForr 42.
09:22 moritz nwc10: the card game Mao (which debian developers like to play during debconf)
09:22 moritz (though it's more like "if somebody has figured out the rules, and won this round, they change the rules")
09:24 jnthn nwc10: The Perl 6 design :P
09:26 |Tux| Fluxx changes the rules faster
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09:30 nwc10 on another channel on another network, Zefram stated that "the prologue to one of the HHGTTG books suggests that the universe does that"
09:30 nwc10 which was probably the thing in my head
09:30 DrForr And that was the source of my 42 ref :)
09:31 nwc10 DrForr: too subtle.
09:32 nwc10 (sorrY)
09:32 DrForr I regularly get accused of that. Or I would if I were less subtle.
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09:47 literal labster: "In poker terms, Python 3 called, PHP 7 folded, and Perl 6 went all-in." <-- nice line, but wouldn't it make more sense to say "PHP 6 folded" ?
09:50 labster literal: Probably.  Fixing.
09:51 brrt here's skepticism that 'this time, php7 will work'
09:54 dalek doc: f5c65a2 | paultcochrane++ | htmlify.p6:
09:54 dalek doc: Document svg-for-file()
09:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f5c65a25d3
09:54 dalek doc: 15dc4a1 | paultcochrane++ | t/pod-htmlify.t:
09:54 dalek doc: Add a test for svg-for-file()
09:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/15dc4a12bf
09:54 dalek doc: 2f987de | paultcochrane++ | / (2 files):
09:54 dalek doc: Move svg-for-file() into Pod::Htmlify
09:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2f987de4dc
09:54 dalek doc: a4f2932 | paultcochrane++ | lib/Pod/Htmlify.pm6:
09:54 dalek doc: Remove superfluous use of file handle in svg-for-file
09:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a4f2932a11
09:54 dalek doc: 086dcee | paultcochrane++ | lib/Pod/Htmlify.pm6:
09:54 dalek doc: Document routines in Pod::Htmlify
09:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/086dceef78
09:54 dalek doc: fd8520f | paultcochrane++ | lib/Language/ (2 files):
09:54 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
09:54 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/fd8520f359
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09:55 lizmat down to 1 failing spectest file  :-)
09:56 labster :-) indeed
09:56 brrt \o/
09:59 labster good night, #perl6
09:59 lizmat good night, labster!
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10:16 ab5tract_ lizmat: regarding ':' delimited paths, I would just assume that it reflects posix $PATH
10:17 lizmat yeah, put PERL6LIB/RAKUDOLIB only have Perl6 internal uses, so it doesn't matter what delimiter is used, is my assumption
10:17 lizmat *but
10:19 ab5tract_ lizmat: agreed. and one could argue that ':' is not a good choice because it is a directory delimiter in some OSes/FSes/
10:19 lizmat and it is part of Foo::Bar notation  :-)
10:19 jnthn I think making it follow the same convention for PATH makes some sense.
10:19 ab5tract_ we can make it futureproof with a unicode symbol :)
10:19 jnthn For one 'cus we already have to deal with that separator
10:19 lizmat making it different between OS's makes sense ?
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10:20 jnthn i'd say so, then it's just "parsed the same way your OS's idea of PATH is"
10:20 jnthn Rather than another different notation/convention
10:21 lizmat well, I would like to make it a comma over all OS's
10:21 kd` the documentation on http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ needs some love.  How do I contribute?
10:24 kd` mostly seems the heading structure that is wrong
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10:26 nine lizmat: but comma is also a valid character in a directory name
10:26 Juerd 12:20 < jnthn> i'd say so, then it's just "parsed the same way your OS's idea of PATH is"
10:26 Juerd PATH is a shell thing, not an OS thing.
10:26 Juerd And it's insane to even try and figure out which shell Perl was started from :D
10:26 nine [Tux]: Inline::Perl5 tests fine here?
10:27 jnthn Juerd: Is this pedantry or do you actually have a real world example we have to care about? :)
10:27 Tux__ the tests itself do, but when used with Text::CSV_XS it doesn't :/
10:27 Juerd jnthn: Pure pedantry, of course
10:27 jnthn Ah, phew :)
10:27 nine Tux__: so I'm missing some test case there. Could you maybe golf it down?
10:27 |Tux| I'll try that instantly :)
10:28 lizmat nine: so is ":", at least on OS/X:
10:28 lizmat mkdir "foo:blah"
10:28 lizmat LizyPro:rakudo.moar liz$ ls -lsd foo:blah
10:28 lizmat 0 drwxr-xr-x  2 liz  macports  68 May  4 12:27 foo:blah
10:29 Juerd jnthn: Although in fish, PATH is not colon separated.
10:29 nine lizmat: same on Linux. So I wonder, why : was chosen for $PATH and how other programs deal with that
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10:30 jnthn Probably DIHWIDT :)
10:32 Juerd jnthn: http://juerd.nl/i/938760ddfbe892c194cc2ed6fa0b492b.png  fish has arrays.
10:33 Juerd So, I guess it's both: I was being pedantic, but I do have a real world example. I don't know if you have to care about that one... :)
10:33 jnthn Wow. :)
10:34 Juerd I love fish but I use bash because fish doesn't have the reverse-incremental search (^R)
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10:49 RabidGravy kd, rakudo.org is on wordpress it appears so I guess it's get someone to give you the keys ;-)
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10:59 |Tux| nine, is this enough? https://gist.github.com/Tux/9d34d87eea19aa7d5dd9
10:59 lizmat spectest clean now, working on panda now: progress: https://gist.github.com/lizmat/8eb1c68396157f8897ca
11:00 |Tux| lizmat++; # work on panda
11:00 |Tux| may I suggest «panda Inline::Perl5» to mean «panda install Inline::Perl5», like cpan?
11:01 nwc10 if so, please "ban" (or at least refuse to index) any distro name which could be confused with a panda command.
11:04 lizmat nwc10: why?  I mean, any serious installer would use "install $module" anyway
11:04 RabidGravy hahaha, yeah I so remember that one from cpan about 10 years ago
11:04 lizmat this is about making it easier for the casual user
11:04 RabidGravy "cpan install Foo" would mysteriously try to install some package that had a module "install" in it
11:04 nwc10 for the avoidance of confusion. Which has existed in Perl 5
11:05 lizmat and anyway, there will be no central index for P6 modules anyway
11:05 nwc10 so which index is panda using?
11:05 lizmat well, a temporary one until we got S22 implemented  :-)
11:05 nwc10 the problem is as RabidGravy described better than I did.
11:05 lizmat ok, so let's not make the same mistake
11:06 nwc10 exactly. I meant "not making the same mistake."
11:06 lizmat |Tux|: perhaps you need to make an alias "pi" that does "panda install" ?
11:06 nwc10 the easier-for-the-user feels the right choice to me
11:06 nwc10 but the upshot is that to avoid ambugiuty, you can't then have certain distro names. At least, not as recognised by panda. Or life gets very confusing.
11:08 nine |Tux|: thanks. Can repro with that and will have a look at it
11:08 lizmat so we agree that to install a module Foo with panda, "panda install Foo" would be the only way ?
11:12 * |Tux| wisely holds his vote to himself
11:12 nwc10 no, I think was trying to say the other "panda Foo" is much better.
11:12 nwc10 But the upshot of permitting that, is that one needs to make a decision about what happens if someone names a module "bar", where "panda bar ..." is a valid command for panda
11:13 lizmat indeed, and I don't want that ambiguity
11:13 lizmat so if you want to install a module with panda, you will have to include the word "install"
11:13 lizmat and all ambiguity is gone, or am I missing the point here?
11:13 lizmat lunch&
11:14 |Tux| user experience: if there is no ambiguity, why not support it?
11:14 |Tux| «panda install» is minvalid as such (nothing to install)
11:15 |Tux| so is «panda bar» currently
11:15 |Tux| so, as a alternative, "install" could be default is only one single argument is passed
11:18 * Ven_ far prefers an explicit "install" to mean "install" :-)
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11:20 nine |Tux|: I golfed it further down. Seems like passing empty strings to P5 is broken.
11:20 |Tux| glad to have been of assistance
11:21 nine perl6 -e 'use Inline::Perl5; my $p5 = Inline::Perl5.new; $p5.run(q/$| = 1; sub test { print $_[0]; };/); $p5.call("test", "");'
11:21 nine xf{5
11:22 Ven_ haha
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11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5: 8b3af84 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (2 files):
11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5: Fix passing empty strings and bufs to Perl 5.
11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5:
11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5: A 0 len parameter passed to newSVpv makes perl5 use strlen() to
11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5: determine len. We don't need this magic anymore, since we determine the
11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5: length of the buffer in Perl 6 code already for binary safety.
11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5:
11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5: Works around an apparent bug in Rakudo. The pointer to the supposedly
11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5: empty string points to random garbage now.
11:49 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/8b3af8457b
11:49 nine |Tux|: ^^^
11:50 * |Tux| (re)builds ...
11:51 |Tux| sounds nasty
11:52 lizmat nine: could you golf the apparent rakudo bug and rakudobug it ?   :-)
11:52 lizmat does anybody use DESTDIR with panda??
11:52 nine Well I'm not sure if it really is a bug in Rakudo. It's not an empty string but an empty blob8 at that point. And with Bufs/blobs one has to handle the length of the buffer by oneself anyway. Assumptions of NULL termination may be just off.
11:55 lizmat %*ENV<RAKUDOLIB> = "$destdir.^name()=$destdir" if $destdir.^can('install');  # if $destdir isa Str, how can this ever fire ???
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12:10 * lizmat is puzzled by "Missing or wrong version of dependency 'p6capturelex' (from 'lib/Shell/Command.pm')"
12:10 lizmat p6capturelex?
12:12 jnthn wtf...
12:13 jnthn Looks like an error reporting fail of some kind
12:13 lizmat yeah, a very confused panda
12:14 jnthn Well, that error comes from the VM level
12:15 lizmat well, maybe it is all moot
12:15 lizmat I have a diff for rakudo and a diff for panda, and together they work
12:15 jnthn If you're getting that error, though, it probably is some version skew :)
12:15 xinming joined #perl6
12:15 jnthn But yeah, curious reported fail
12:16 lizmat and take bare startup from .23 to .16 on my machine
12:16 lizmat so I could push both now, or spend more time finding out why panda doesn't work with the diff on the rakudo without the diff
12:17 jnthn lizmat: The win sounds worth it; I suspect we'll see the other issue again at some point
12:17 jnthn lizmat: Do what you feel is best.
12:17 lizmat I feel like pushing forward
12:17 lizmat :-)
12:20 [Coke] morningish
12:22 brrt joined #perl6
12:22 brrt wow, hater news really deserved it's name today
12:27 tadzik hmm, looks pretty civilized to me, if you're talking about labster's post
12:27 tadzik for which a labster++ is well deserved :)
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: 3c5fe7f | lizmat++ | / (7 files):
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement new @*INC handling
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: This reduces bare startup time by about 30% (.23 to .16 on my machine), and
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: running a spectest from 240 to 215 wallclock (1620 to 1435 CPU), again on my
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: machine.
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: List of features:
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: - @*INC / %*CUSTOM_LIB only contain strings, never any (other) object
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: - the separator between paths is now ","
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: - the separator between include path specification is now "#"
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: - all module loading code is now threadsafe (afaics)
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: - added RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG helper sub for module loading diag info
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: - added DISTRO.cur-sep to help with migration from older panda's
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: - adapted parse-include-spec sanity testing
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: We should now be ready to making 'use lib' a pragma and truly lexical.
12:28 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3c5fe7f119
12:28 lizmat *phew*
12:28 tadzik :o
12:28 tadzik lizmat++
12:28 nwc10 lizmat++
12:28 rarara joined #perl6
12:28 * colomon went through his (far too large) to-do list today, and discovered a bunch of to-do’s involving niecza still hanging around…
12:28 tadzik so, how does that fix the panda problem?
12:29 nwc10 I'm not *comfortable* about the , bit, but it might turn out that I'm wrong and you're right.
12:29 nwc10 but that's not exactly a blocker on merging the awesomness
12:29 lizmat tadzik: which panda problem?
12:29 lizmat for the first time, an up-to-date perl6 and up-to-date panda actually work for me
12:30 lizmat (in a long time)
12:30 tadzik lizmat: the one we tried to track down on perlqah
12:30 rararara joined #perl6
12:30 dalek nqp: f8baa95 | jnthn++ | src/core/IO.nqp:
12:30 dalek nqp: Make the join sub avoid boxing.
12:30 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f8baa95871
12:30 dalek nqp: a4d1d5f | jnthn++ | src/core/IO.nqp:
12:30 dalek nqp: Make say/print/note do a single VM I/O op.
12:30 dalek nqp:
12:30 dalek nqp: This means two operations on the same handle done by two threads will
12:30 dalek nqp: come out ordered.
12:30 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a4d1d5fbea
12:30 dalek nqp: 3d9efcc | jnthn++ | src/core/testing.nqp:
12:30 dalek nqp: Make 'ok' always do a single I/O operation.
12:30 dalek nqp:
12:30 dalek nqp: Means t/concurrency/01-thread.t output will not be garbled.
12:30 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3d9efccfc9
12:31 nine wow, lizmat++ :)
12:33 lizmat tadzik: my head hurts:  seen so many problem since, could you elaborate ?
12:34 tadzik lizmat: about PERL6LIB not being respected, something
12:34 lizmat ah, that should be fixed with the latest push to panda, I think
12:34 tadzik well, the headhurt must be because of the memory of it, sorry for bringing it up
12:34 tadzik oh, /me looks
12:35 tadzik ok, awesome :)
12:35 lizmat Ah, I see the Inline::Perl5 tests need some adjusting
12:35 jnthn lizmat: My "make test" is rather explodey on everything doing a 'use Test'
12:35 brrt maybe it's been reposted? the latest was just about as meanspirited / childish as i've read in a long time
12:35 lizmat jnthn:  huh???
12:36 jnthn lizmat: But when I run them individually at the command line with -Ilib they work out OK
12:36 lizmat the only one failing for me is:
12:36 lizmat t/04-nativecall/02-simple-args.t ..... Dubious, test returned 2 (wstat 512, 0x200)
12:36 lizmat Failed 2/12 subtests
12:36 lizmat and that's a known issue ?
12:36 jnthn lizmat: Everything from t\01-sanity\52-parse-include-spec.t on explodes here
12:36 lizmat could you gist your ENV ?
12:37 Juerd Verbing weirds language, but it greats anyway.
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12:37 jnthn lizmat: https://gist.github.com/jnthn/4f8ea22ea1530259aa17
12:37 leedo_ perl6 starts up faster than perl -MMoose now :D
12:38 jnthn lizmat: I notice these lines in t/harness:
12:38 jnthn my $path_sep = $^O eq 'MSWin32' ? ';' : ':';
12:38 jnthn $ENV{'PERL6LIB'} = join $path_sep, qw/ lib . /;
12:38 Juerd leedo_: How much faster?
12:38 jnthn lizmat: Was that the think you comma'd?
12:38 jnthn *thing
12:38 leedo_ Juerd: 0.145 vs 0.164 here
12:38 lizmat lemme check
12:39 Juerd leedo_: Wow
12:39 lizmat jnthn: yeah, that might be it
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: 31f3db1 | lizmat++ | t/harness:
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Forgot to commafy one PERL6LIB ref
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/31f3db1d9f
12:41 jnthn lizmat: That helps. And "make test" down to 3s here now :)
12:42 jnthn lizmat++ # nice startup improvement
12:42 timotimo labster: is "to justify a much reduced scope new features for the next major version of PHP" a correct sentence? my brain has trouble parsing it
12:44 arnsholt Accidentally a preposition, perhaps?
12:50 lizmat nine: INline::Perl5 assumed @*INC contained objects, fixing that now
12:50 timotimo Juerd: in fish you can just press arrow up after typing something and that'll give you something very similar to ^R
12:50 timotimo i use that all the time
12:50 nine lizmat: thanks. Had a quick look, but I'm not sure what the replacement for files() is in our IO system
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12:52 Juerd timotimo: Very unsimilar if you're actually used to ^R. The difference is that incremental search is incremental, while fish has no support for incremental searching. If you press the arrow and continue typing, it won't continue searching for the longer substring.
12:53 Juerd timotimo: I use ^R because I *don't* remember what I did before, so I don't know how much I have to type in order to have a sufficiently long substring for fish to match the line I wanted.
12:53 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
12:56 timotimo fair enough
12:56 dalek Inline-Perl5: c4292b5 | lizmat++ | lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:
12:56 dalek Inline-Perl5: Fix breakage caused by @*INC only containing Str
12:56 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/c4292b50ae
12:57 lizmat should work with both this rakudo and pre @*INC == Str ones
12:57 timotimo leedo_: how exactly do you measure startup for both?
12:58 leedo_ timotimo: probably in a very unscientific way :P -e ''
12:58 timotimo i think -e '' is all right
12:59 lizmat afk for a bit&
12:59 RabidGravy joined #perl6
13:00 timotimo i always do -e 'say 1' so that there's some actual parsing and compiling rather than just the empty CompUnit
13:00 timotimo the tricky thing is that if you echo '' | perl6 you'll get the REPL that only loads the compiler after the user has actually typed in a command, so that startup time is massively smaller
13:01 cognominal joined #perl6
13:04 [Coke] so, what's the current state of REPL readline/linenoise? Should things be working on nom now?
13:07 FROGGS joined #perl6
13:08 FROGGS hello from an hotel
13:10 dalek nqp: 5c54c73 | jnthn++ | t/concurrency/01-thread.t:
13:10 dalek nqp: Remove a comment, now latest Moar doesn't hang.
13:10 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5c54c7347a
13:11 timotimo removing that comment makes Moar not han gany more?
13:11 timotimo hang any*
13:11 timotimo that's amazing :P
13:11 jnthn 50 chars is too short for good grammar :P
13:12 timotimo %)
13:12 jnthn .ask japhb I fixed the hang in 01-thread.t in NQP. Some tests now fail identically on JVM and Moar, but I think they're busted. yield is only a OS scheduler hint, it doesn't promise anything, so I feel the thread yield tests are bogus.
13:12 RabidGravy oops, seems like HTTP::UserAgent tests b0rked by the "something not ordered anymore change"
13:12 jnthn .tell japhb I fixed the hang in 01-thread.t in NQP. Some tests now fail identically on JVM and Moar, but I think they're busted. yield is only a OS scheduler hint, it doesn't promise anything, so I feel the thread yield tests are bogus.
13:12 RabidGravy patchy, patchy
13:12 timotimo thank you, RabidGravy
13:12 jnthn bah, where is the darn bot :P
13:17 timotimo hm, so, did anything happen in the last week?
13:18 RabidGravy duchess of cambridge had a child apparently
13:19 jnthn timotimo: Many things :)
13:19 timotimo is that the "royal baby" business i've heard so many people go out of their way to say "I DONT CARE ABOUT THAT"?
13:19 RabidGravy there's also a possibility that "ufo" may have been shagged by recent CompUnitRepo changes, if anyone wants to prod whoever made it
13:19 timotimo masak made it
13:20 timotimo wowzers
13:20 timotimo not only is -e '' now a whole bunch faster, it also uses up a bunch less memory
13:21 timotimo 69 megs instead of 85 megs
13:22 FROGGS is panda still broken on HEAD?
13:22 konsolebox joined #perl6
13:24 RabidGravy FROGGS, works for me
13:25 timotimo (and also: down to ~0.17s elapsed from 0.30s elapsed)
13:26 FROGGS jnthn: is it possible that I get some jnthntime in the next days?
13:26 FROGGS I want to tackle the CompUnitRepo+serialization stuff
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13:33 jnthn FROGGS: Yes; I do have 2 days of teaching (and the travel there tomorrow afternoon), but I'm doing Perl 6 things now and will have time at OSDC.no
13:34 jnthn FROGGS: I had one realization: there's a really easy way, after deserializatin, for an SC to "disclaim" all objects
13:34 FROGGS ohh?
13:34 FROGGS jnthn: do tell
13:34 FROGGS I have an easy test case where I can try things
13:34 jnthn FROGGS: It has them in its root set, so we can just make an nqp::scdisclaim($sc) or so that loops over all the objs/stables/codes in the SC and clears their ->sc pointer
13:35 jnthn FROGGS: Then they'll be unowned
13:35 FROGGS ahh!
13:35 FROGGS that's something I have not tried yet :D
13:35 jnthn FROGGS: And it means we can disclaim precisely the things in that SC that we deserialized.
13:35 jnthn And it should be fast/cheap.
13:35 FROGGS okay, that seems to exactly what I want it seems
13:35 FROGGS to be*
13:36 jnthn Only thing is we'll have to defeat the lazy serialization to make it happen
13:36 FROGGS nice, 2 minutes worth of jnthntime probably solved my problem :D
13:36 jnthn I can do an impl of the op in Moar later on today if you want
13:36 FROGGS k
13:36 jnthn (right now I'm hunting concurrency bugs)
13:36 FROGGS no, I can do that, I stubbed a similar op...
13:39 dada aloha
13:39 dada is this place ok for stupid userland questions, or not?
13:39 FROGGS there are no stupid questions...
13:39 FROGGS just ask
13:39 dada right :-)
13:40 FROGGS :o)
13:40 dada I installed rakudobrew (nom), but panda doesn't seem to work
13:40 Akagi201_ joined #perl6
13:40 dada as far as I can see, Shell::Command doesn't install because of "Missing or wrong version of dependency 'p6capturelex' (from 'lib/Shell/Command.pm')"
13:40 FROGGS huh
13:41 FROGGS dada: can make sure that everything is up to date?
13:41 dada FROGGS: just used rakudobrew to get from git ~1h ago
13:42 dada This is perl6 version 2015.04-151-g87b1eea built on MoarVM version 2015.04-57-g0c052ea
13:42 FROGGS hmmm, I was away for almost 4 days, so I'm not sure what is going on there
13:43 nine dada: that's ancient :)
13:43 nine dada: seriously, there have been fixes in that time frame for exactly that problem.
13:43 FROGGS m: say 1
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«1␤»
13:43 FROGGS but 87b1ee is HEAD
13:43 skids joined #perl6
13:44 dada but maybe MoarVM is newer
13:45 nine FROGGS: I see two commits since 87b1ee
13:45 dada no, actually 31f3db1 is HEAD
13:45 FROGGS ahh
13:47 dada oh yeah, Shell::Command tests successfully now
13:47 dada and panda works :-)
13:48 Akagi201 joined #perl6
13:48 dada nine: thanks
13:48 dada cool stuff, guys
13:48 tinyblak joined #perl6
13:49 FROGGS \o/
13:51 krunen joined #perl6
13:53 zakharyas joined #perl6
13:56 tadzik yay :)
14:00 [Coke] several spectests with "#?rakudo skip "'is ObjectType' NYI"" ... which is not mentioned in the skipped tests or the syn. lizmat?
14:01 moritz maybe this is about  'my @array is MyArrayImplementation' ?
14:01 moritz which is indeed not yet implemented
14:02 timotimo with our lovely arrays, why would you ever want to have a different array implementation?
14:02 [Coke] my %h is BagHash, etc. ok.
14:02 [Coke] timotimo: more on the hash end where we have like 80 hash types.
14:03 moritz timotimo: whenever you want non-lazy arrays? :-)
14:03 [Coke] ok, so this is really the same issue, it seems. thanks.
14:04 timotimo right
14:04 brrt m: my %h = BagHash.new; my @a = 1, 2, 3; my @a[3] := %h<foo>; my @a[^10] = ^10; say @a.perl; say %h.perl;
14:04 camelia joined #perl6
14:05 brrt aw man... haha
14:06 brrt m: my %h = BagHash.new;
14:06 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash initializer expected␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/O4EQKSvCwF:1␤␤»
14:06 brrt i can't initialize a baghash... at all
14:06 timotimo you need to := it
14:07 brrt why :-(
14:07 timotimo because if you write my %h = ... it'll want to build a regular Hash
14:07 brrt oh...
14:08 masak labster++ # "In poker terms, Python 3 called, PHP 6 folded, and Perl 6 went all-in."
14:09 timotimo brrt: same way @a = ... behaves, actually
14:09 brrt hmmm, yeah
14:09 brrt ok
14:10 El_Che joined #perl6
14:11 masak wow, the first comment jn HN about labster++'s article is attacking a "no-one uses py3" strawman. and getting called on it. nice.
14:13 RabidGravy haha
14:15 Isp-sec joined #perl6
14:16 telex joined #perl6
14:16 [Coke] down to 1275 tickets. still no sign of davidnmfarrell
14:17 [Coke] 1274, one of 'em was spam. :)
14:26 Ven joined #perl6
14:27 arnsholt masak: Yeah, turns out Python 3 is a bit of a lightning rod for the Perl 6 hate =)
14:30 timotimo flussence: how far are you into making the profile json use arrays instead of hashes for the most common structure?
14:33 RabidGravy I'm having a bit of a dumb brain moment with regular expressions, is there any sane way of saying "all of these things in any order but separated by ';'" ?
14:34 moritz [ thing1 | thing2 | thing3 ] ** ';'
14:34 moritz in p6 regexes
14:34 masak arnsholt: who'd have thought? :P
14:34 [Coke] note that that allows multiple thing1s, e.g.
14:34 timotimo wait
14:34 RabidGravy moritz++ # groovy
14:34 timotimo shouldn't it be [ thing1 | thing2 | thing3 ] * % ';'
14:34 [Coke] there isn't a way to say "A;B;C" for all n-combo permutations of elements.
14:34 timotimo well, the * would cling to the ] probably
14:35 timotimo you can still do it, but you have to put in a code assertion
14:35 timotimo which the regex engine cannot be smart about :(
14:35 * masak .oO( Python 2 programmers hate on Perl. Python 3 programmers have evolved a new, more modern and powerful hate on Perl 6 )
14:36 timotimo hm. how about <!before $<firstthing>><!before $<secondthing>>[ thing1 | thing2 | thing3 ] for the last piece
14:37 timotimo and the saem with only $<firstthing> for the second
14:39 mst masak++
14:40 arnsholt timotimo: If you just have three options, I'd just encode all six possibilities in the grammar. If you have more than that, not entirely sure how I'd do it
14:40 arnsholt Perhaps check for duplicates in the action method
14:42 hoelzro o/ #perl6
14:42 timotimo if you put it into the action method, you won't get backtracking, if you want to do something like a search through a large portion of items for n unique items in a row or something
14:42 masak how about `[ <t1> | <t2> | <t3> ] * % ';' <?{ $<t1> & $<t2> & $t<t3> == 1 }>` ?
14:43 masak pretty short. haven't tried it, but should work.
14:43 masak not much repetition. good use of junctions :)
14:43 moritz m: say 1 & 2 == 1
14:43 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«all(True, False)␤»
14:43 timotimo that looks neat
14:43 masak or even something like `all($<t1 t2 t3> == 1`
14:44 masak er, `all($<t1 t2 t3>) == 1`
14:44 moritz all %($/).values == 1
14:44 moritz 1 == all %($/).values
14:44 masak yes, the latter.
14:44 masak that even removes the `t1 t2 t3` repetition. moritz++
14:45 timotimo m: say "F1a" ~~ / [ <digit> | <upper> | <lower> ]* { say +«$<digit upper lower> } /
14:45 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«2 1  ␤Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏F' (indicated by ⏏)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/oEwJJev2dM:1␤␤»
14:45 timotimo m: say "F1a" ~~ / [ <digit> | <upper> | <lower> ]* { say $<digit upper lower>».elems } /
14:45 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«1 1 1␤「F1a」␤ upper => 「F」␤ digit => 「1」␤ lower => 「a」␤»
14:45 timotimo m: say "F1A" ~~ / [ <digit> | <upper> | <lower> ]* { say $<digit upper lower>».elems } /
14:45 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«1 2 0␤「F1A」␤ upper => 「F」␤ digit => 「1」␤ upper => 「A」␤»
14:46 timotimo oh, .values
14:46 timotimo m: say "F1A" ~~ / [ <digit> | <upper> | <lower> ]* { say $<digit upper lower>».values } /
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«「1」 「F」 「A」 ␤「F1A」␤ upper => 「F」␤ digit => 「1」␤ upper => 「A」␤»
14:46 masak right.
14:46 timotimo nah, not .values
14:46 masak %($/).values
14:46 moritz m: say "F1A" ~~ / [ <digit> | <upper> | <lower> ]* { %(/$).values>>.elems } /
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/5v_Vqow9RD␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'␤at /tmp/5v_Vqow9RD:1␤------> 3 [ <digit> | <upper> | <lower> ]* { %(/$7⏏5).values>>.elems } /␤    expecting any of:␤        infix stoppe…»
14:46 moritz m: say "F1A" ~~ / [ <digit> | <upper> | <lower> ]* { %($/).values>>.elems } /
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«「F1A」␤ upper => 「F」␤ digit => 「1」␤ upper => 「A」␤»
14:47 rjbs has $.x is rw; # now I can $obj.x = 123;
14:47 moritz m: say so "F1A" ~~ / [ <digit> | <upper> | <lower> ]* { %($/).values>>.elems } /
14:47 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«True␤»
14:47 moritz m: say so "F1A" ~~ / [ <digit> | <upper> | <lower> ]* { say %($/).values>>.elems } /
14:47 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«2 0 1␤True␤»
14:47 rjbs How do I make a method such that I can ($obj.y = 123) through it?  i.e., what ruby would call "def x="
14:47 moritz rjbs: method y() is rw { ... }
14:47 timotimo rjbs: you want to "is rw" and return-rw (or just use the last-statement-of-block instead of returning)
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14:48 timotimo more precisely: or "is rw" + last-statement-of-block
14:48 hoelzro you can also use a Proxy, iirc
14:49 timotimo right, that's if you have something more complex than a simple container you want to have assignments tno
14:49 timotimo to*
14:49 rjbs So if I want to validate the thing being assigned, I must use a type on the thing I'm assigning?
14:49 rjbs er, returning
14:50 timotimo that's one way, aye
14:50 moritz the other is to return a Proxy
14:50 moritz which calls a callback for you on assignment
14:51 * rjbs looks for PRoxy in http://doc.perl6.org/language.html
14:51 masak Proxy objects define FETCH and STORE methods
14:51 masak or perhaps it's better to think of them as functions
14:51 masak (because you pass them in as constructor arguments)
14:52 dalek doc: 11edcb0 | moritz++ | WANTED:
14:52 dalek doc: Add Proxy to WANTED
14:52 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/11edcb0f7b
14:52 rjbs That page has a search box at the to pright, but it appears to do nothing.
14:53 rjbs masak: With a proxy, the method shoudl still be is rw?
14:53 rjbs Pardon my typos, the bus is bumpy. :)
14:53 masak rjbs: no, the function doesn't have to be rw
14:53 masak rjbs: let me dig you up an example from CORE
14:53 moritz masak: I think rjbs meant the routine returning a Proxy
14:54 rjbs I did.
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14:54 masak right. yes.
14:54 masak it should be `is rw`
14:54 masak rjbs: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/src/core/Buf.pm#L463
14:54 rjbs method x is rw { return Proxy.new(STORE => {...}, FETCH => {...}) }
14:55 masak hm, shoulda done the link like this for posterity: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/31f3db1d9f00b246c9478ea87da3c91873728354/src/core/Buf.pm#L463
14:55 rjbs Thanks.  Next question, then I think I'm done for a while...
14:55 rjbs my $x = $obj.x;  my $y = $x;
14:55 rjbs The method call returns a Proxy.  The copy does a FETC, right?  There is no action at a distance when later I reassign $y?
14:56 masak to a first approximation, no.
14:56 masak though of course, your FETCH could return a reference, etc...
14:56 masak but likely no, no action at a distance.
14:56 rjbs Great, thanks.
15:01 hoelzro speaking of rw methods, I've often wondered what the semantics of https://gist.github.com/2f0b8ed59e684c59ca08
15:01 hoelzro should be
15:01 timotimo same as my Int $foo = "foo", i think?
15:03 lizmat masak: I think jnthn said that a sub returning a Proxy *should*be marked "is rw"
15:03 lizmat masak: the fact that it isn't needed right now, is a bug
15:04 timotimo right; return is supposed to recont-ro things it returns
15:04 ab5tract_ hmmm.. that could explain why I wanted to bash my head in while coming up with a working example and the cognitive understanding to explain said example
15:04 ab5tract_ (tl;dr -- I failed)
15:04 Ven_ joined #perl6
15:04 hoelzro timotimo: except that the type check has to be deferred until runtime, right?
15:05 timotimo correct
15:05 muraiki joined #perl6
15:05 ab5tract_ in this case I am tlaking about a working example of Proxy
15:05 |Tux| nine, http://tux.nl/Files/20150504170542.png
15:07 timotimo oh, we install files under their original name again?
15:07 lizmat timotimo: if in is an inst, it shouldn't  :0(
15:07 hoelzro ok, thanks timotimo!
15:07 timotimo lizmat: just what i see in tux' screenshot there
15:08 timotimo "copying blib/lib/Inline/p5helper.so to /.../perl6/site/lib/Inline/p5helper.so"
15:08 timotimo [Tux]: can you quickly verify that that path actually has that file?
15:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 52bf35d | lizmat++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo.pm:
15:09 dalek rakudo/nom: Make CompUnitRepo.new do something sensible
15:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/52bf35df3b
15:09 |Tux| $ find /pro/3gl/CPAN/rakudobrew/ -name p5helper.so
15:09 |Tux| /pro/3gl/CPAN/rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/lib/Inline/p5helper.so
15:09 masak lizmat: right; agree.
15:09 timotimo interesting!
15:09 timotimo [Tux]: what's the date on that file?
15:09 konsolebox joined #perl6
15:09 |Tux| 2015-05-04 16:50:23
15:09 masak lizmat: I was confused as to which routine we were talking about; the FETCH and STORE routines don't need to be thus marked.
15:09 |Tux| MET
15:09 timotimo so it's current
15:10 |Tux| no, it is not
15:10 literal W/ 31
15:10 |Tux| well, it is, but not as new as Inline::Perl5
15:10 colomon woah, spectacular number of fails in the smoke test this morning.  :\
15:10 timotimo oh?
15:10 konsolebox joined #perl6
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15:11 lizmat probably something I did  :-(
15:11 colomon http://smoke.perl6.org/report
15:11 * |Tux| rebuilds from start ...
15:12 [Coke] masak: I wonder if recent NFG work has fixed RT #107204 in moar.
15:12 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=107204
15:12 konsolebox joined #perl6
15:13 masak [Coke]: either way, that RT ticket doesn't have a decent observable, and should be rejected on principle.
15:14 konsolebox joined #perl6
15:14 |Tux| ll /pro/3gl/CPAN/rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/lib/Inline/p5helper.so
15:14 |Tux| 59639010 -rw-rw-r-- 1 merijn 1966431 2015-05-04 17:14:24 /pro/3gl/CPAN/rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/lib/Inline/p5helper.so
15:15 |Tux| csv-ip5xs   ===SORRY!===
15:15 |Tux| unable to find Inline/p5helper.so IN @*INC
15:15 konsolebox joined #perl6
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15:19 konsolebox joined #perl6
15:20 dalek Inline-Perl5: 093878c | lizmat++ | lib/Inline/Perl5.pm6:
15:20 dalek Inline-Perl5: Don't use rakudo internal subs
15:20 dalek Inline-Perl5: review: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5/commit/093878c551
15:20 colomon lizmat: Hmmm, I think it might indeed have been you.  At least, it looks like it happened in between your commits today.
15:20 lizmat |Tux| could you retry with absolute latest rakudo and Inline::Perl5 ?
15:20 |Tux| damn, I almost left :/
15:20 colomon lizmat: and my latest attempt for one of them worked fine.
15:20 lizmat ok, then I assume it's going to be better tomorrow
15:21 * |Tux| tries anyway
15:21 colomon lizmat: gonna fire off another smoke run now, actually.
15:21 konsolebox joined #perl6
15:21 lizmat ok, cool!
15:22 * |Tux| suggests lizmat to include '$ git pull && make test && make time' on Text::CSV :P
15:22 coffee` joined #perl6
15:22 |Tux| in your test/accept procedure
15:22 konsolebox joined #perl6
15:23 lizmat ok, I see it
15:24 konsolebox joined #perl6
15:25 |Tux| csv-ip5xs   ===SORRY!===
15:25 |Tux| unable to find Inline/p5helper.so IN @*INC
15:25 |Tux| off to home. back in 65
15:25 konsolebox joined #perl6
15:25 lizmat |Tux|: I see the panda install problem
15:25 lizmat also off for a few hours
15:25 lizmat so will look at it when I'm back
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15:39 dalek roast: 046e9f5 | jnthn++ | S17-promise/stress.t:
15:39 dalek roast: Add test for RT #123883.
15:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/046e9f5590
15:39 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=123883
15:40 dalek nqp: a5b7ade | jnthn++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
15:40 dalek nqp: Get MoarVM with some concurrency fixes.
15:40 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a5b7ade559
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15:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 5ebbd47 | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
15:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump NQP_REVISION for Moar with concurrency fixes.
15:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5ebbd470d3
15:42 dalek rakudo/nom: 66e15e5 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
15:42 dalek rakudo/nom: Add S17-promise/stress.t as a stress test.
15:42 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/66e15e5eab
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15:44 raydiak good morning, #perl6
15:46 [Coke] r: my \do = 42; say do do ;
15:46 camelia rakudo-{moar,jvm} 87b1ee: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Missing block or statement␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> 3my \do = 42; say do do7⏏5 ;␤»
15:46 hoelzro m: macro f { '1 + 1' } ; say f();
15:46 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Too few positionals passed; expected 3 arguments but got 2␤»
15:47 hoelzro do returning strings from macros no longer work?
15:47 [Coke] from https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=115230 if someone wants to mark that testneeded.
15:50 dalek rakudo/nom: 4ad94f3 | jnthn++ | src/core/ThreadPoolScheduler.pm:
15:50 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't assume time-based things won't hog threads.
15:50 dalek rakudo/nom:
15:50 dalek rakudo/nom: Fixes RT #123520.
15:50 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4ad94f399e
15:50 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=123520
15:51 dalek roast: db5a920 | jnthn++ | S17-promise/in.t:
15:51 dalek roast: Fix and test for RT #123520.
15:51 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/db5a9203ac
15:51 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=123520
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16:05 hoelzro I ask about the macros thing because that's the first example in S06, and I'm wondering if it needs amending
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16:07 ab5tract_ \o/ concurrency patches :D
16:08 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
16:08 timotimo ohai pmichaud!
16:09 RabidGravy I hate regular expressions
16:10 RabidGravy took me two hours to fix the tests for HTTP::UserAgent
16:10 flussence timotimo: I had a look at that json stuff, but I don't feel confident about changing structural things around myself...
16:10 timotimo oh
16:11 timotimo we should start a brain trust :P
16:12 flussence but afaik, my guess was right and 90% of it is a single hash repeated over and over. The only awkward part is that there's recursion in the middle that makes it variable length.
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16:13 timotimo ... variable length?
16:13 timotimo you mean one of the values in the hash is just more hashes/lists?
16:14 flussence like, it's easy enough to pull the keys out, but the way it's naturally ordered means the last few indexes would jump around. I'm not sure shuffling things around is a good idea given how slow the --profile option can be sometimes...
16:14 timotimo what is the last few things?
16:15 flussence there's an allocations list at the end, and a nested call stack that may or may not appear before that
16:15 timotimo ah, i see
16:16 timotimo i think if you always allocate the list with empty slots and put the allocation list and call stack into a numbered slot of that list, you should be fine
16:16 timotimo if we could get the profile of core setting compilation small enough to have the qt-based profiler load it, that'd be a nice win
16:16 konsolebox joined #perl6
16:18 konsolebox joined #perl6
16:19 flussence I wonder if it'd be possible to turn this into a flat binary thing... every entry has an "id" field and the callees list doesn't *have* to recurse like that.
16:19 konsolebox joined #perl6
16:20 timotimo i'd be gladder if you could look into making my old-ish code for summarising call nodes after a given recursion depth work ... :)
16:20 konsolebox joined #perl6
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16:22 flussence I could take a look... point me to it?
16:22 timotimo sure! :D
16:22 timotimo https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commits/finite_callgraph_depth'- uppermost three commits
16:23 konsolebox joined #perl6
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16:25 flussence ooh, C code. this is gonna be fun...
16:26 konsolebox joined #perl6
16:26 timotimo you'd most probably also have to change C code to make the generated list/hash structure different, FWIW
16:29 timotimo when does the "end" block for a variable fire? at the same time END would?
16:29 jnthn timotimo: yes
16:30 * jnthn away for abit
16:31 flussence .oO( oh, so *that's* why the json is wrapped in []s, it's an array of threads... )
16:32 timotimo yup, though the profiler doesn't really do multiple threads yet
16:32 timotimo and i don't think the html frontend could deal with it yet
16:33 vendethiel joined #perl6
16:42 timotimo could someone try to come up with a short piece of example code that looks good with RAKUDO_VERBOSE_STACKFRAME set to some number?
16:42 jack_rabbit joined #perl6
16:44 dalek perl6-roast-data: 47476f5 | coke++ | / (9 files):
16:44 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:44 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/47476f5175
16:48 hoelzro I found some language in the specs that seems a little contradictory: http://design.perl6.org/S04.html#line_1507 vs http://design.perl6.org/S06.html#line_2331
16:48 hoelzro the language in S06 about class invariants makes it sound like that's a definite language feature (just NYI)
16:49 timotimo looks like a good catch
16:50 pmichaud well, almost by definition, anything NYI is conjectural.  :)
16:50 rjbs m: my @x := 0,2...*; @x[^10].perl.say
16:50 yoleaux 02:14Z <japhb> rjbs: If only keys matter: 'enum Foo < Bar Baz Quux >;' or if you need to pick specific values, use pairs: 'enum Foo :Bar(-12), Baz(16), Quux(42);'
16:50 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«(0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18)␤»
16:50 yoleaux 02:14Z <japhb> rjbs: (sorry, typo) If only keys matter: 'enum Foo < Bar Baz Quux >;' or if you need to pick specific values, use pairs: 'enum Foo :Bar(-12), :Baz(16), :Quux(42);'
16:50 yoleaux 02:16Z <japhb> rjbs: Then you can use the enum type in declarations:  'my Foo $choices;' or 'has Foo $subtype;'
16:50 konsolebox joined #perl6
16:51 rjbs m: [0,2 .. *].perl.say
16:51 hoelzro =)
16:51 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
16:51 rjbs Oops. :-)
16:51 rjbs m: [0,2 .. *].say
16:51 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«0 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 8…»
16:51 rjbs So, why does the first one, with the @x, get 0,2,4,6,... and the other... not?
16:52 timotimo you want "..." and not ".."
16:52 timotimo in order to get the 0, 2, 4, ... i mean
16:52 timotimo the reason is that .gist (which is what .say normally uses) will cut off a long list at some point and thus not fully reify that lazy list
16:52 timotimo whereas .perl will try to print out the full list from start to finish
16:53 rjbs Ha!  One sec.
16:54 rjbs so, that was a foolish typo that I made repeatedly; but what is .. for?
16:54 rjbs aha, I see
16:54 rjbs Range constructor
16:54 timotimo aye
16:55 konsolebox joined #perl6
16:56 hoelzro rjbs: I made that same mistake myself this morning =)
16:59 jack_rabbit joined #perl6
16:59 rjbs japhb: Thanks, re: enum type.
16:59 rjbs japhb++
17:01 colomon lizmat: you may be off the hook, everything is still broken
17:04 [Sno] joined #perl6
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17:12 liztormato colomon: doesn't that imply I'm on the hook?
17:12 colomon well, still on the hook, I suppose.  not enough information yet.  :)
17:14 liztormato Ok. I'll be back home in 1.5 hours or so. Will then look again
17:17 liztormato In the smoketest, please double check how PERL6LIB and RAKUDOLIB are set up.
17:18 liztormato If they are, of course
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17:23 colomon liztormato: hmmm, indeed, emmentaler is messing with PERL6LIB in a suspicious looking way
17:23 liztormato Try replacing : with ,    ;-)
17:25 colomon rerunning now....
17:37 liztormato Cycling again&
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17:39 ugexe im a fan of all the recent compunit changes :)
17:40 labster what the hell happened on HN last night?  I'm thinking of replying, but ugh, where do I even start.
17:42 pmichaud labster: reference?
17:42 vendethiel labster: ??
17:42 labster "This article is total FUD and garbage from yet another Python 2 ideological holdout dogmatist."  Wha?  I guess they stopped reading before I spent 10 paragraphs talking about Perl 6.
17:42 vendethiel http://www.reddit.com/r/MoarVM/ lol. really.
17:42 labster pmichaud: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9484939
17:43 [Coke] vendethiel: ah, squatter?
17:43 vendethiel [Coke]: yeah.
17:43 DrForr labster: TL;DR I'm guessing.
17:44 moritz labster: there's somebody wrong on the Internet *shrug*
17:45 moritz labster: it happens whenver something becomes sufficiently popular; somebody else it trying to drag it through the mud
17:45 pmichaud In the Python community, there's an assumption that Python 3 will be successful when most people have migrated away from Python 2... i.e., Python 3 is an "upgrade" to Python 2.
17:45 rjbs Oh, that php6/perl6/python3 article got HNed?
17:45 rjbs I thought it was a pretty reasonable piece.
17:46 rjbs so no wonder people are angry!
17:46 labster DrForr: It was a pretty long way of saying "deploying breaking changes are really hard"
17:46 rjbs ain't that the truth
17:46 pmichaud However, we don't consider Perl 6 as an "upgrade" or "replacement" for Perl 5; i.e., our measure of success isn't dependent on the short-term migration way from Perl 5.
17:46 labster Next time I'll just tweet it
17:46 pmichaud *away
17:47 moritz m: my $p = Proxy.new; say $p
17:47 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke this object (REPR: P6opaque, cs = 0)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Q81J3Pc0_k:1␤␤»
17:47 [Coke] m: say byte(3); # that error looks familiar.
17:47 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke this object (REPR: P6int, cs = 0)␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/PnquapSX3a:1␤␤»
17:47 rjbs labster: Oh, that was your article?  labster++
17:48 vendethiel I must agree the PHP part of the article was pretty ... misinformed.
17:49 labster pmichaud: I agree, and acknolwedge that Perl 5 is never going away.  But also Perl 6 is going to have a hard time catching on without the support of the Perl 5 developers.
17:50 dalek doc: b371543 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
17:50 dalek doc: document Proxy
17:50 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b371543f32
17:50 pmichaud labster: I'm not sure I agree with the latter part of that.
17:50 labster I read about 10 PHP articles.  It's much easier to find quality information about Python than PHP.
17:50 [Coke] m: say 'ß'.uc, 'ß'.tclc, 'ΣΣΣ'.lc
17:50 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«ßßσσσ␤»
17:51 pmichaud And there are some other parts of the OP that I'm not sure I agree with.
17:51 rjbs [Coke]: tclc?  is that like ucfirst?
17:51 pmichaud "There is a very real possibility that six years from now, Perl 5 will still be the dominant form of an ever shrinking faction of Perl users. "     Is there evidence to support "ever shrinking faction of Perl users"?  I thought some of the metrics were pointing in the opposite direction.
17:51 moritz rjbs: it's like ucfirst(lc($_))
17:51 rjbs moritz: right, thanks :)
17:51 [Coke] rjbs: sort of. ^^
17:51 moritz rjbs: tc is like ucfirst
17:52 vendethiel Just want to take a minute to say ruby1.9 went much better than others :P
17:52 rjbs pmichaud: I found that sentence awkward and thought it meant that "while p5 will dominate, it will dominate a fraction of all p* users that is shrinking as people switch to p6"
17:52 rjbs pmichaud: saying nothing about the absolute size of perl* users over time
17:52 pmichaud it seems to me that the OP confuses "shrinking market share" with "shrinking population"
17:53 RabidGravy I think there is an increasing balkanisation of the dynamic languages space
17:53 rjbs also static languages space
17:53 labster pmichaud: "possibility" is a key word there.  And I don't think we can pretend that Perl* has the dominance it had in the 1990s.
17:54 pmichaud labster: does it need to have that dominance to be successful, though?
17:54 labster No.
17:54 RabidGravy all the hip young kids jump to whatever is the hot thing every year
17:56 pmichaud I often keep in mind the model of Southwest Airlines -- they don't define success by being the biggest, or largest market share, or the traditional forms of "best".  They define it by "are we profitable?" and "are we serving the populations we want to serve?"
17:57 labster Well, I wrote a lot of wrong things, but at least it's starting a conversation.  I had kinda hoped to bring it up here first for feedback, but Gabor emailed it out before I even brought it up here.
17:57 moritz and "are we profitable?" for a programming language would be "are we a self-sustaining, growing community?"
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17:57 pmichaud moritz: +1   exactly
17:58 xinming joined #perl6
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18:01 baest labster: I thought it was very interesting and yes it definitely started a conversation/discussion #labster++
18:03 pmichaud agreed, it's started some very useful conversations.  #labster++
18:06 labster pmichaud moritz: A lot of the things that determine whether or not we have a growing community depend on how things appear from the outside.  So we can serve our people very well, but people are still going to make snap decisions based on whether or not the programmer believes the product was a success, whether or not it was a "successful upgrade".  Those decision moments are going to be determined in large part by our lega
18:06 labster And I do fly Southwest.
18:07 [Coke] "by our legac"
18:07 labster ... by our legacy.  And I do fly Southwest.
18:12 RabidGravy yeah there is an extent to which this is dependent on whether the ecosystem achieves sufficient critical mass that someone can take a casual look and go "yep I could do this project easily in Perl 6"
18:13 pmichaud RabidGravy: and more to the point:  "I can do this in Perl 6 and I'd prefer that over other alternatives"
18:13 RabidGravy (and I've never flown south west)
18:17 pmichaud I agree that outside appearances have an impact.  It also depends on how we react.  For a long time Perl had a reputation of being a very ugly language, and people "on the outside" would mock it for being so cryptic and terse and the Perl community's reaction was "yeah, you're right, it's ugly and it gets the job done".
18:27 RabidGravy I've never quite got the ugly thing (as long as you ignore regular expressions)
18:27 [Sno] joined #perl6
18:29 pmichaud RabidGravy: it's all of the sigils, too.
18:29 pmichaud e.g., things like     for (0..@#array-1)
18:29 domidumont joined #perl6
18:29 pmichaud I'm afk
18:33 labster RabidGravy: the other part of it was in the large amount of poor-quality scripts hacked together by sysadmins in the early days.  And some people just think anything with sigils is ugly.
18:34 PerlJam And lots of marketing of poor quality scripts didn't help either (who remember's Matt's Script Archive?)
18:35 raydiak I think it's the sigils, plus p5's -> instead of . for method calls, plus the number of operators, plus the regexes (not just the fact that they have their own special syntaxes, but also just how popular they are in Perl culture)
18:35 RabidGravy oh yeah, Matt's Script Archive was a disaster
18:36 RabidGravy the NMS project spent a lot of effort attempting to eradicate them well into the 21st century
18:36 PerlJam raydiak: but Perl's regex were adopted by everybody eventually in one form or another
18:36 labster and JAPHs on forum sigs
18:36 raydiak PerlJam: surely, but not all those langs had their own special // and =~ syntax outside of the regex lang itself
18:37 RabidGravy and JAPHs and the "elegant", er, succinct code
18:38 labster m: "Just another perl hacker".say  #golfed it
18:38 camelia rakudo-moar 87b1ee: OUTPUT«Just another perl hacker␤»
18:39 RabidGravy and software like majordomo that refused to die but no-one managed to replace
18:39 raydiak PerlJam: but what I meant was, besides the various scary-looking regex syntaxes both inside and outside, they are deeply ingrained in perl culture and get (or got) used a lot more frequently than non-Perl programmers might be used to
18:39 PerlJam raydiak: oh, yes indeed.
18:40 raydiak so the end result of all those things I listed is an overall impression of "yikes!" I think :)
18:40 brrt joined #perl6
18:40 brrt (the inline::perl5 stuff is /really/ cool
18:41 brrt nine++
18:42 raydiak (also we should probably brace ourselves for patience with that perception; with a much longer list of operators, and meta and hypers on top of that, we are a lot more susceptible to "line noise" jokes than even P5 was)
18:43 brrt let them joke :-)
18:43 brrt i
18:43 labster Everybody: only write clean code!
18:43 LuxOcculta joined #perl6
18:43 brrt am already having a lot of fun with perl6 now
18:43 RabidGravy I'm too stupid to right objuscated code
18:44 LuxOcculta Hello guys,
18:44 RabidGravy write
18:44 RabidGravy obfuscated
18:44 colomon lizmat: switching : to , for PERL6LIB in emmentaler literally broke EVERYTHING.  0 passing modules now.
18:44 LuxOcculta I've been a perl dev for 4 years, and I enjoy perl5 a lot
18:44 * raydiak could probably stand to clean up some scary corners of a couple of his ecosystem modules
18:44 RabidGravy what is the matter with my typing
18:45 hoelzro welcome LuxOcculta
18:45 LuxOcculta and I'm starting to get the perl6 hype :X
18:45 LuxOcculta do you think it would be a good time to start writing production perl 6 code ?
18:45 RabidGravy the more the merrier
18:45 labster LuxOcculta: I too write a lot of Perl 5 for $dayjob, it's pretty fun.
18:46 RabidGravy the more, the fewer yaks I have to shave
18:46 PerlJam LuxOcculta: depends on what you mean by "production code", but I'd say "yes".
18:46 ugexe perl6-j is also failing to build, and seems due to modules: ./perl6-j --target=jar --output=lib/Test.pm.jar -Ilib lib/Test.pm
18:47 LuxOcculta iii :D, I'll get started :D
18:47 ugexe ===SORRY!=== Don't know how to handle Makefile:423: recipe for target 'lib/Test.pm.jar' failed
18:47 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:49 ugexe i am able to test/compile on moar stil though
18:49 ugexe test/compile modules
18:51 RabidGravy LuxOcculta, I'd say due to the relative immaturity of the ecosystem you may find yourself with more work, but yeah it's definitely getting to that point
18:52 labster LuxOcculta: Keep in mind that the module ecosystem isn't complete yet.  I'm a place where I use Perl 6 for development tasks, but I still use Perl 5 for code that needs to be deployed.
18:55 lizmat colomon: looking at perl6-j not building report first
18:56 LuxOcculta Thanks guys, I'll give perl6 a go on some non critical scripts that need to be updated, see how it goes :D
18:56 espadrine joined #perl6
18:57 colomon lizmat: and I got sidetracked with paying $work
18:57 colomon lizmat: I still think PERL6LIB is probably issue, just the fix wasn’t right
18:57 lizmat where does emmentaler live ?
18:58 ugexe i dont see anything in the emmentaler smoker that should cause any problems, unless it has to do with absolute/relative file paths
18:59 ugexe oh i was looking at SmokeResults
19:00 ugexe %*ENV<PERL6LIB> = "{cwd}/installlib/lib:" ~ (%*ENV<PERL6LIB> // '');
19:01 ugexe s/:/,/ i imagine
19:01 colomon ugexe: yes, that’s the line
19:01 colomon no, that change made everything worse
19:02 colomon or… not?
19:02 brrt good luck LuxOcculta
19:02 brrt if you hit any snags, please let us know :-)
19:03 ugexe i imagine it should be
19:03 ugexe file#/{cwd}/installlib/lib,some-other-path,some-other-path
19:03 colomon no, that’s what I did and it broke everything
19:03 ugexe but the file# looks like it should get tacked on by rakudo
19:03 brrt inline REPL help would be a really awesome feature
19:03 lizmat colomon: huh, that broke everything?
19:04 colomon 100% module fail, yse
19:04 ugexe its also pushing onto INC instead of unshift
19:04 lizmat is the panda up to date ?
19:05 colomon I dunno about panda
19:05 colomon after the PERL6LIB assignment line, PERL6LIB is /home/colomon/emmentaler/installlib/lib,
19:05 colomon could that be the problem?
19:06 lizmat $ 6 'BEGIN @*INC.unshift("."); use Foo'
19:06 lizmat ===SORRY!===
19:06 lizmat Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/m-CORE.setting' (from 'Foo.pm')
19:06 lizmat I think that's the pb
19:07 colomon huh?  I mean, it’s definitely getting past that line.
19:07 lizmat colomon: could you try this diff:
19:07 lizmat -    @*INC.push("{cwd}/installlib/lib");
19:07 lizmat -    %*ENV<PERL6LIB> = "{cwd}/installlib/lib:" ~ (%*ENV<PERL6LIB> // '');
19:07 lizmat +    @*INC.push("file:{cwd}/installlib/lib");
19:07 lizmat +    %*ENV<PERL6LIB> = "{cwd}/installlib/lib," ~ (%*ENV<PERL6LIB> // '');
19:07 lizmat sorry
19:08 TimToady joined #perl6
19:08 ugexe isnt it file# now
19:08 lizmat +    @*INC.push("file#{cwd}/installlib/lib");
19:08 lizmat yeah
19:08 lizmat perl6-j build confirmed broken here, looking at it now
19:10 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
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19:11 ugexe panda also seems to use PERL6LIB in a way that may not work correctly
19:11 ugexe https://github.com/tadzik/panda/blob/81893bbb7c82b5b57570555f338221f38a2f6c89/lib/Panda/Common.pm#L24-L28
19:11 ugexe i.e. it joins with a path seperator
19:12 lizmat DISTRO.cur-sep is ',' if it exists
19:12 ugexe ah
19:12 lizmat that was part of code I did to mitigate the transition
19:15 ugexe panda smoke works fine (other than when it hits a segfault and skips all tests after)
19:16 ugexe but that problem has been around for awhile
19:17 RabidGravy ah that :/, thing seems to be what the problem with ufo is too
19:17 colomon Hmmm, what I’m getting is messages that look like this:
19:17 colomon ==> Fetching Nonongram
19:17 colomon ==> Building Nonongram
19:17 colomon Compiling lib/Nonogram.pm to mbc
19:17 colomon ===SORRY!===
19:17 colomon Don't know how to handle
19:18 * moritz also doesn't know how to handle
19:18 * lizmat neither
19:18 lizmat same on jvm  :-(
19:18 lizmat :q
19:21 ugexe emmentaler seems to be smoke testing fine for me
19:22 ugexe Inline::Perl5 is puking but thats the only thing sticking out so far (and i think thats been happening for a few days) unable to find Inline/p5helper.so IN @*INC
19:28 colomon ugexe: “stock” ennemtaler, or with the changes?
19:28 * colomon ponders blowing away his rakudo build and starting from scratch
19:29 ugexe stock. also your 'Dont know how to handle' is probably due to a comma getting placed at the end of the string
19:29 ugexe %*ENV<PERL6LIB> = join ',', "file#{cwd}/installlib/lib",%*ENV<PERL6LIB> // ();
19:29 ugexe that acts the same as stock for me
19:29 eiro hello people
19:30 lizmat well, I guess the simple fix would be to ignore any empty specs
19:30 ugexe well i assume he was doing "/some/path," ~ %*ENV<PERL6LIB>
19:31 ugexe so the first time around you get the ','
19:31 lizmat yeah, could be it indeed
19:31 ugexe at the end. and it stays for everything else as it gets prepended
19:31 dalek rakudo/nom: 5708c60 | lizmat++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo.pm:
19:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Only complain about non-empty specs
19:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5708c60191
19:33 lizmat that's probably also the issue on the JVM, as it has a custom code path filling @*INC
19:34 _mg_ joined #perl6
19:35 TimToady joined #perl6
19:36 ugexe so what happens when i have a file named 'bad,file#../../some-other-file'
19:36 vendethiel a file name containing "/"?
19:36 * colomon is getting more and more baffled by the proposed changes, and nothing works for him on hack.
19:37 ugexe well, not an actual file. if i pass that as a filename
19:37 lizmat my last fix fixed the JVM build
19:38 lizmat together with the proposed emmentaler fixes, the smoke should run
19:39 [Tux] Inline::Perl5 still fails
19:39 lizmat not in its testing, but in usage with Text::CVS, right ?
19:39 cognominal joined #perl6
19:39 [Tux] correct
19:40 [Tux] csv-ip5xsio ===SORRY!===
19:40 [Tux] unable to find Inline/p5helper.so IN @*INC
19:40 lizmat colomon: I'm sorry about the confusion I created, but this fix was really badly needed wrt to performance
19:40 [Tux] so I don't think it matters *what* module to load
19:40 ugexe thats a compile time error
19:40 hoelzro [Tux]: I think that's probably relating to the compunit stuff
19:41 [Tux] likely
19:41 hoelzro I have the same problem with linenoise =(
19:41 * [Tux] wonders if RT#124298 will be adressed in the process of fixing
19:42 [Tux] I also want to tak e alook at *DISTRO
19:42 jack_rabbit joined #perl6
19:44 ugexe Inline::Perl5 problem is likely due to its Build.pm file and in Tester.pm  @*INC.push('.');
19:44 lizmat ugexe: wrt to :bad,file#: the idea is that externally delivered data is normalized (-I RAKUDOLIB PERL6LIB)
19:44 lizmat so "bad" would become "file#bad"
19:45 TimToady joined #perl6
19:45 lizmat if the creation of the CURLF on "bad" fails, we have 2 choices: complain or ignore
19:46 lizmat |Tux|: confiirmed the Inline::Perl5 issue:
19:46 lizmat $ perl6 -MInline::Perl5 -e 1
19:46 lizmat ===SORRY!===
19:46 lizmat unable to find Inline/p5helper.dylib IN @*INC
19:46 ugexe what if the filename is actually 'file,bad'
19:46 lizmat DIHWIDT
19:47 lizmat and it's not a file, it's supposed to be a dir
19:48 [Coke] Is there a ticket driving these changes?
19:48 [Coke] (trying to follow along at home)
19:49 DrForr https://gist.github.com/drforr/4a05d0dcf52cffb9b438 # Whitespace issue?
19:51 masak DrForr: looks like.
19:51 masak m: say ""
19:51 camelia rakudo-moar 5708c6: OUTPUT«␤»
19:51 DrForr With => on the previous line it's fine.
19:51 lizmat [Coke] I *think* there is a ticket for startup slownes depending on number of modules installed
19:52 masak m: foo␤=> 42
19:52 camelia rakudo-moar 5708c6: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/rUzddqAhnj␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix => instead␤at /tmp/rUzddqAhnj:2␤------> 3=>7⏏5 42␤»
19:52 masak golf'd a bit.
19:52 masak std: foo␤=> 42
19:52 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix => instead at /tmp/5XB5B1vOvc line 2:␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5=> 42␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 136m␤»
19:52 masak hm :)
19:52 masak so maybe not a parsing bug after all.
19:52 jnthn It appears deliberate:
19:52 masak will have to wait for TimToady's input, now that STD fails, too.
19:52 jnthn token fatarrow {
19:52 jnthn <key=.identifier> \h* '=>' <.ws> <val=.EXPR(item %item_assignment)>
19:52 jnthn }
19:53 jnthn Note the \h*
19:53 masak right.
19:53 masak yeah.
19:53 masak ok, so notabug. until further notice, at least.
19:53 masak mebbe it's one of them "heuristics".
19:53 jnthn Easy workaround is to quote the string on the LHS
19:53 jnthn (or put it on one line)
19:53 jnthn Mebbe :)
19:54 jnthn I *think* the parsing relies on the LTM being able to see the =>
19:54 jnthn So we likely can't just throw <.ws> in place of the \h*
19:55 masak and knowing TimToady, he didn't just put that \h* there for no reason.
19:55 jnthn Aye
19:55 jnthn I leave TimToady++ to call it, but I think you could liberalize it to \s* but not to <.ws>
19:55 jnthn (without breaking the parse)
19:58 DrForr I would hope so. I don't usually do foo\n=>blah, but in this case the indentation just seemed to work out.
19:59 * masak .oO( I don't always do foon=>blah... but when I do, I break the parse )
20:00 ugexe theres also :foo(␤ 42) but i doubt that has the asthetic appeal you are looking for
20:01 lizmat nine: looking ath the loop in Inline::Perl5.native: shouldn't it "last" as soon as you found it ?
20:01 DrForr Well, if someone wants to dub me the most ineresting programmer alive I ... won't stop them :)
20:02 * PerlJam cites DrForr for excessive newlines
20:02 ugexe did pushing onto @INC always clear @*INC out?
20:02 lizmat no, never
20:02 lizmat and still doesn't
20:02 lizmat it's just that @*INC is supposed to contain sanitized entries
20:03 * DrForr treats PerlJam to LoTR courtesy Newline Cinema :)
20:03 lizmat before long, @*INC will only be settable through the "use lib" interface
20:03 ugexe well pandas Tester.pm does @INC.push(".")
20:03 ugexe which clears out @*INC
20:03 * lizmat checks
20:03 japhb DrForr: Dang it, now I'll never be able to unthink that when I watch one of their films
20:04 ugexe pushing on @*INC does nto clear out @INC though
20:04 ugexe er, does nto clear out @*INC
20:05 ugexe damn dyslexia
20:06 ugexe sorry, panda is only pushing onto @*INC. But the @INC thing is still strange behavior
20:07 lizmat well, changes to @*INC should be compile time only
20:07 lizmat that's one of the things I'll be able to fix soon now
20:07 bartolin [Coke]: you started that gist for "dnmfarrell RT consolidation". I'd like to merge some of those new tickets (e.g. 124696-124736). what's the best way to do that? just merging the tickets and leaving a note on your gist?
20:08 Rounin joined #perl6
20:08 ugexe i've been using CompUnit.precomp(... :@TMP-INC)
20:09 ugexe well, :INC(@TMP-INC)
20:09 lizmat well, panda should start using CompUnit.precomp as well, but I thought I'd break only one set of features at a time :-)
20:10 ugexe will there be a way to do 'use cur <$some-file>'?
20:10 [Coke] bartolin: Yes, that's fine.
20:10 [Coke] or .tell me here, or something.
20:10 lizmat ugexe: it's really include spec that you specify with "use cur"
20:11 lizmat (use lib in the future)
20:11 [Coke] thank you. I did some yesterday and this morning, but there's a lot to get through.
20:11 lizmat so, you can create a Module Foo, with a .short-id that returns "foo"
20:11 [Coke] If possible, please use the same tags I'm using, (ok, resolved, rejected, merged <id>)
20:11 bartolin [Coke]: yes, will do.
20:11 ugexe im probably just handling dependency injection wrong, but ive ended up wanting to do use lib $some-lib or use cur $some-path-to-modules
20:12 lizmat and you can refer to your CUR's as "foo#path_or_whatever_specifciation"
20:12 DrForr masak: Should I file a bug, or will TimToady have to make a call?
20:12 DrForr (headed to bed here shortly.)
20:12 ugexe instead its a tangle of require $module, if ::($module) ~~ Failure { hope jvm doesnt crap itself }
20:13 [Coke] bartolin++ Also, I heard from @perltricks, who will be trying to update his pull request this evening; at that point, once it's committed, we can just update roast when we do something with the tickets.
20:13 [Coke] I think we still need to keep track of what we've touched though - someone has to review each of those automatically generated tix.
20:13 bartolin [Coke]: great!
20:14 masak DrForr: filing a ticket is almost never wrong :)
20:14 DrForr Consider it done.
20:16 masak ++DrForr
20:19 lizmat Inline::Perl5 issue seems to be a problem in CURLI.files
20:19 lizmat zeroing in...
20:24 [Coke] bartolin: we can move that list somewhere we you can commit to it too, also.
20:25 DrForr rt#125101
20:25 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display.html?id=125101
20:26 TimToady joined #perl6
20:27 ugexe that double slash
20:27 masak right there in the source: https://github.com/tadzik/synopsebot/blob/b73166307078aa824315775f93739c5ca7353cbd/synopsebot.p6#L19
20:28 RabidGravy a little slash with clogs on, there in the source right there
20:28 bartolin [Coke]: what about misc/rt.perl.org in the perl6/mu repository?
20:29 bartolin [Coke]: there lives the list of closed parrot tickets
20:34 ugexe personally i think it should use 4 slashes
20:34 [Coke] bartolin: sure, give me a minute to clone that.
20:36 TimToady joined #perl6
20:37 ugexe lizmat: ignoring the fact pushing @*INC is wrong, shouldn't panda be unshifting onto @*INC instead? seems like that could solve some possible problems related to compiling with an old previously installed module
20:37 lizmat well, I'm not sure, I figured there was a reason for pushing
20:38 lizmat instead of unshifting
20:40 ugexe from what i remember there is no reason, but thats just from going over the code and not from tadzik. and i think unshifting would solve some bugs ive encountered and fixed via deleting all modules and reinstalling.
20:40 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
20:41 ugexe sort of ashamed it took me until now to realize
20:41 lizmat it feels like CURLI.install doesn't create a MANIFEST
20:44 lizmat ugexe: could well be
20:45 [Coke] bartolin: done
20:46 dalek mu: 41fc623 | coke++ | misc/rt.perl.org/c (2 files):
20:46 dalek mu: bring files from rt cleanup gist
20:46 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/41fc62320e
20:46 ugexe i think CURLI.install is giving me MANIFEST... give me a few minutes
20:46 [Coke] er, done.
20:46 bartolin *g* [Coke]++
20:50 dalek rakudo/nom: 198d9e7 | lizmat++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
20:50 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove some more beautiful plumage
20:50 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/198d9e7a7d
20:51 ugexe yeah CURLI.install is failing to write the manifest/numbered files
20:52 lizmat and after that it can't find any files
20:54 ugexe hmm in the MANIFEST that i moved to see if a new one gets generated it has: 2015.04-158-g5708c60
20:54 telex joined #perl6
20:54 dalek mu: 52ae744 | usev6++ | misc/rt.perl.org/cleanup_nyc_hackathon_tickets.txt:
20:54 dalek mu: Mark merged tickets for S32-str/sprintf-b.t
20:54 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/52ae744f88
20:57 dalek mu: a1ab1a4 | usev6++ | misc/rt.perl.org/tickets_closed_parrot_only.txt:
20:57 dalek mu: Add one ticket closed as 'parrot only'
20:57 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/a1ab1a407b
21:03 dolmen joined #perl6
21:03 ugexe I'm getting a few extra "Missing serialize function for REPR ReentrantMutex" on jvm when compiling modules now
21:03 lizmat jnthn might know
21:04 jnthn I think I fixed that on Moar...
21:04 lizmat jnthn: this is specificallly on JVM
21:04 lizmat so NYI ?
21:04 jnthn Yeah, the fix needs porting I guess
21:05 lizmat ugexe: looks like CURLI.install is not called at all
21:05 jnthn RT it and I'll get to it. I've developed a mild headache, so think I'll leave more coding until tomorrow...
21:07 [Coke] bartolin++
21:07 masak 'night, #perl6
21:08 lizmat good night, masak!
21:10 ugexe for me its returning True
21:11 spider-mario joined #perl6
21:14 ugexe ok it created the manifest as well
21:19 TimToady joined #perl6
21:19 lizmat I think the issue is that CUSTOM_LIB<site> now contains a Str, rather than a CURLI
21:20 Guest96 joined #perl6
21:21 lizmat bingo
21:21 ugexe sounds likely. i dont use CUSTOM_LIB/PERL6LIB which might explain why i dont encounter the same behavior
21:22 lizmat testing a fix
21:23 dalek mu: c8d9fa7 | usev6++ | misc/rt.perl.org/cleanup_nyc_hackathon_tickets.txt:
21:23 dalek mu: Merge 8 tickets for ':: NYI' into existing ticket
21:23 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/c8d9fa735e
21:25 bartolin good night, #perl6
21:26 lizmat good night. bartolin
21:29 ugexe m: say @*INC
21:29 camelia rakudo-moar 198d9e: OUTPUT«file#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.04-159-g198d9e7/lib inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.04-159-g198d9e7 file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/lib file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor/lib file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/site/lib…»
21:29 ugexe m: say @*INC; @INC.push(".")
21:29 camelia rakudo-moar 198d9e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/9KuQAYO7Sj␤Variable '@INC' is not declared␤at /tmp/9KuQAYO7Sj:1␤------> 3say @*INC; @INC.push(".")7⏏5<EOL>␤»
21:30 ugexe well, on the command line that prints out nothing
21:30 kd` /w/w 11
21:32 silug joined #perl6
21:32 ugexe i guess non-strict is clobbering the INC name
21:34 lizmat m:  @*INC.push("."); say @*INC
21:34 camelia rakudo-moar 198d9e: OUTPUT«file#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.04-159-g198d9e7/lib inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.04-159-g198d9e7 file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/lib file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor/lib file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/site/lib…»
21:34 lizmat m:  @*INC.push("."); say @*INC[*-1]
21:34 camelia rakudo-moar 198d9e: OUTPUT«.␤»
21:34 lizmat m:  @*INC.push("file#."); say @*INC[*-1]     # better
21:34 camelia rakudo-moar 198d9e: OUTPUT«file#.␤»
21:37 ugexe my confusion seemed to be from '@INC.push' not being declared, so i guess it automatically gets declared my @INC before the say @*INC but after @*INC was populated
21:43 lizmat ok, I pushed a change to panda that will at least create the MANIFEST
21:43 lizmat unfortunately, this breaks testing on Shell::Command
21:43 lizmat in the panda bootstrap process
21:44 lizmat and I'm getting too tired to look at this
21:44 lizmat so, I will get me some sleep and look at it again in the morn
21:44 lizmat *on
21:47 ugexe on JVM the reentrant mutex error i can get trying to compile just 'use Perl6::Grammar:from<NQP>'
21:47 lizmat &
21:49 ugexe which yesterday it could
21:51 jnthn 'night, lizmat
22:24 * raydiak looks out the window at the again-broken car sitting there, and wonders what software would be like if bytes were as costly as bolts and every recompilation required new gaskets and fluids
22:27 ugexe imagine if most software ran as long as most cars
22:33 raydiak .oO( oh yeah? well MY uptime is 270k miles! )
22:40 skids joined #perl6
23:15 TimToady the \h* is intentional for LTM purposes, and it can't be liberalized to \s* without potentially breaking heredocs
23:15 Peter_R joined #perl6
23:16 TimToady it also reduces the LTM lookahead greatly on identifiers without a subsequent =>
23:17 TimToady if you let it go past \n then it probably has to scan a whole bunch of spaces on the next line on the offchance someone wanted to put a newline before the =>
23:17 TimToady and you'll note that this is the first time in a decade that someone has actually attempted it :)
23:18 TimToady so it's gonna stay \h*
23:18 labster awww
23:18 * labster doesn't actually care
23:19 vike joined #perl6
23:19 labster Actually that's all pretty reasonable.
23:22 xiaomiao joined #perl6
23:35 tony-o m: my $r = start { sleep 3; }; my $timeout = Promise.in(1); await Promise.anyof($r, $timeout); $r.break if $timeout.status ~~ Kept;
23:35 camelia rakudo-moar 198d9e: OUTPUT«Access denied to keep/break this Promise; already vowed␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Zx2vszPkZ9:1␤␤»
23:39 tony-o is there a mechanism to break a start {} ?
23:40 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
23:40 tony-o hi pmichaud

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