Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-05-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:51 colomon I got 30 seconds with latest moar, and 30 five days ago.
01:51 colomon errr, latest rakudo moar, if that makes a difference, and whatever its default moar is.
01:52 colomon hmmm, panda rebuild having issues with ==> Fetching Math::Polynomial
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06:08 dalek perl6-examples: 68f6bb0 | paultcochrane++ | categories/cookbook/04arrays/04-0 (2 files):
06:08 dalek perl6-examples: [cookbook] indent code consistently
06:08 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/68f6bb06ea
06:08 dalek perl6-examples: b9b413d | paultcochrane++ | t/categories/cookbook/04arrays.t:
06:08 dalek perl6-examples: [cookbook] add tests for 04arrays examples
06:08 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/b9b413d39e
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06:59 sjn arnsholt, jnthn, pmichaud: We have a room at Teknologihuset for some hacking, from 09:30 today
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07:05 FROGGS morning #perl6
07:06 FROGGS ohh, I wish a lot of fun at Teknologihuset
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07:08 moritz sounds like a fun place to be
07:09 masak morning, #perl6
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07:11 moritz \o masak, FROGGS, sjn, *
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07:37 lizmat so, I'm the only one having this slowdown??
07:37 * lizmat nukes install and starts from scratch
07:42 FROGGS lizmat: seems so... I have no slowdown
07:44 sjn lizmat: we have the room at teknologihuset today, btw :)
07:45 quester left #perl6
07:47 FROGGS sjn: is tadzik also at your place?
07:49 RabidGravy marnin'
07:49 tadzik FROGGS: I was not
07:49 tadzik and I
07:49 tadzik 'm now aboard flytoget to OSL
07:51 masak flytoget! with free wifi! \o/
07:51 tadzik yes :)
07:51 tadzik also the interfaceless ticket buying
07:51 tadzik 1) swipe your card 2) get on train
07:52 tadzik what a time to be alive
07:52 FROGGS *g*
07:57 lizmat sjn: on our way now
07:59 Ven today's masak's autopun. https://twitter.com/kmett/status/596472641894129664
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07:59 Ven also, o/ #perl6
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08:06 sjn pmichaud, jnthn, arnsholt: I'm at teknologihuset now, in the boardroom two stairs up. Espen (the host) will show you the way
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08:11 lizmat after an install nuke, all back to normal  :-)
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08:19 FROGGS phew :o)
08:19 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
08:19 FROGGS morning pmichaud
08:19 masak morning, pmichaud!
08:20 arnsholt o/
08:20 * FROGGS hopes that pmichaud slept more than what FROGGS has heard on other conferences/workshops
08:22 pmichaud I did finally start to catch up on sleep last night, yes.
08:23 * sjn is afraid he may have kept jnthn up for too long last night.
08:23 sjn the beer was good though
08:27 masak this is the first time I see POD (in Perl 5) being written exclusively on lines prefixed '#pod ': https://metacpan.org/source/DAGOLDEN/Hash-Ordered-0.009/lib/Hash/Ordered.pm
08:27 masak is that a new thing in Perl 5? or have I simply missed it for a very long time?
08:28 DrForr Maybe a release tool gone wrong?
08:28 masak oh! possible.
08:28 masak nope. https://api.metacpan.org/source/DAGOLDEN/Hash-Ordered-0.009/lib/Hash/Ordered.pm
08:28 masak or, at least not unless I misunderstand your question.
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08:31 DrForr I was just thinking that he might have an editor that skips '#pod' marked lines and normally removes the #pod markers before publishing.
08:31 DrForr Which is admittedly a stretch.
08:35 masak well, weak evidence against that is the fact that the module renders properly :)
08:36 dalek rakudo/nom: 92bbf5c | arnsholt++ | t/04-nativecall/04-pointers.c:
08:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix C issue in NativeCall tests.
08:36 dalek rakudo/nom:
08:36 dalek rakudo/nom: One of the pointer tests returned a pointer to astack allocated string outside
08:36 dalek rakudo/nom: of the function, which is not very safe. Replace it with a strdup()ed string
08:36 dalek rakudo/nom: that's freed on verification.
08:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/92bbf5c179
08:36 masak https://metacpan.org/pod/Hash::Ordered
08:37 masak `perldoc perlpod` doesn't seem to mention this at all.
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08:49 FROGGS arnsholt++
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08:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 16847e6 | lizmat++ | src/core/CompUnit.pm:
08:54 dalek rakudo/nom: Let CompUnit.precomp fail verbosely when needed
08:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/16847e673f
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09:07 raydiak :q
09:07 raydiak erm...gnight #perl6
09:08 lizmat gnight raydiak
09:09 masak raydiak has quit the vim of daytime.
09:09 FROGGS gnight raydiak
09:18 nwc10 good *, *
09:18 lizmat .oO( Whatever :-)
09:18 nwc10 yeah, whatever.
09:18 masak m: say "$_." for <what ever>
09:19 camelia rakudo-moar 92bbf5: OUTPUT«what.␤ever.␤»
09:19 masak m: say Bool.pick ?? "{uc $_}." !! "$_." for <what ever>
09:19 camelia rakudo-moar 16847e: OUTPUT«WHAT.␤EVER.␤»
09:19 masak m: say Bool.pick ?? "{uc $_}." !! "$_." for <what ever>
09:19 camelia rakudo-moar 16847e: OUTPUT«WHAT.␤EVER.␤»
09:19 masak hm.
09:19 masak m: say Bool.pick ?? "{uc $_}." !! "$_." for <what ever>
09:19 camelia rakudo-moar 16847e: OUTPUT«what.␤EVER.␤»
09:19 masak oh, good. :)
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09:34 RabidGravy The S29 says several times "The NameServices role in S16 covers most of these."  but no such is mentioned or even eluded to in S16, is it just somewhere I failed to noticed it or just not specced at all?
09:35 masak alluded* :)
09:35 lizmat_ m: say ."{<uc lc>[Bool.pick]}"() for <what ever>   # masak
09:35 camelia rakudo-moar 16847e: OUTPUT«what␤ever␤»
09:35 lizmat_ m: say ."{<uc lc>[Bool.pick]}"() for <what ever>   # masak
09:35 camelia rakudo-moar 16847e: OUTPUT«what␤ever␤»
09:35 masak lizmat_: nice :)
09:35 lizmat_ m: say ."{<uc lc>[Bool.pick]}"() for <what ever>   # masak
09:35 camelia rakudo-moar 16847e: OUTPUT«WHAT␤EVER␤»
09:36 masak except the reliance on Bool's numification ;)
09:36 lizmat_ why is that a bad thing ?
09:36 masak damn you RandalSwartz, now I'm getting allergic to it too :)
09:37 masak lizmat_: no reason, nvm
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09:40 RabidGravy masak, quite. I think having a La Trappe dubbel before bedtime last night may have broken my brain.
09:41 pmichaud RabidGravy: iiuc, S29 is fairly old and may contain many fossils.  It's never really been accepted anyway.
09:41 masak lizmat: he once said in a p6l email (I think it was) that +Bool::True ought to be 42 just to teach people not to rely on it being 1... :)
09:41 masak RabidGravy: that's a good beer.
09:41 DrForr I have a 1l bottle of Westmalle trippel left over from FOSDEM.
09:41 Su-Shee joined #perl6
09:41 Su-Shee good morning
09:41 RabidGravy pmichaud, right.
09:42 masak morning, Su-Shee!
09:42 RabidGravy masak, it is indeed. I sensibly eschewed the Quadrupel however.
09:42 Su-Shee jnthn: see msg for the book :)
09:42 Su-Shee masak: why did I not see you in oslo? ;)
09:43 masak RabidGravy: maybe if you had that one you'd have typed "olooded" instead :P
09:43 masak Su-Shee: because timing was extremely unfortunate with @family stuff.
09:43 lizmat joined #perl6
09:43 masak comforting to hear I was missed, though... :>
09:44 RabidGravy masak, I think it would have been more: "like, you know, sorta kinda not thinged ...." ;-)
09:44 Su-Shee masak: oh, I see. it was extremely lovely. very .. family like :) and oslo is really nice, imho.
09:44 masak agreed.
09:44 masak I'll really really try to make it to YAPC::EU this year.
09:45 masak beyond that, not much is guaranteed. :/
09:45 Su-Shee masak: yes, please. I think the spaniards are trying to make it extra-nice.
09:45 Su-Shee masak: also, I promised the program commitee to kick all of your perl6 butts for talks.
09:45 Su-Shee masak: so you have no choice.
09:46 Su-Shee "I am the borg. resistance is futile." <-- my management style.
09:46 FROGGS is it really "I am the borg" in English?
09:46 masak understood.
09:46 Su-Shee FROGGS: yes, the borg queen says it.
09:46 masak ok, #perl6 channel -- what should I talk about this year at YAPC::EU?
09:46 FROGGS Su-Shee: ahh, yeah
09:47 pmichaud Should I talk about something?
09:47 masak YES
09:47 Su-Shee masak: I would love to emphasis real world perl6 so to speak, so it would be awesome to show off common problems
09:47 pmichaud the timing would be very good for a discussion of language spec.
09:47 pmichaud update/reprise of my FOSDEM talk, I suspect.
09:47 masak Su-Shee: ok, good angle. I do have a lot of real world Perl 6 code.
09:47 lizmat Missing test file: t/spec/S05-modifier/ignorecase-and-ignoremark.t   # did someone forget to git add ?
09:48 pmichaud jnthn++'s perl 6 for beginners session yesterday went really well.  A lot of excitement and enthusiasm among the participants.
09:48 masak \o/
09:48 virtualsue i was sorry to miss that
09:48 FROGGS ohh dang
09:48 FROGGS lizmat: wait a sec
09:48 masak was it filmed?
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09:48 pmichaud I'm going to see if it's possible to squeeze in a similar event at yapc::na
09:48 Su-Shee masak: in no special order: things like e.g. streaming, parsing, processing, how to write a perl 6 module (on the plane I thought that maybe whipping up your own json module would illustrate how to make good practical use of grammars), networking up and down would be awesome..
09:49 pmichaud masak: not filmed, no.
09:49 Su-Shee masak: C library bindings.. (I hear it's extra nice and easy)
09:49 pmichaud masak: it was more workshop than presentation.
09:49 masak pmichaud: aww :) but ok.
09:49 masak Su-Shee: I'm glad I asked. these are all good ideas, but I wouldn't have been able to come up with them myself.
09:50 Su-Shee masak: functional perl 6, async perl 6....
09:50 Su-Shee masak: it's mostly that I ask myself: new language? what do I do with it usally, what are my every day uses?
09:50 dalek roast: 948770b | FROGGS++ | S05-modifier/ignorecase-and-ignoremark.t:
09:50 dalek roast: add test file for ignorecase+ignoremark
09:50 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/948770bf31
09:50 masak I wonder if I could make it along the lines of "Solved in Perl 6", in a near-Q&A style...
09:50 FROGGS lizmat: there you go
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09:51 Su-Shee masak: I would very much like to skip beginner's perl 6 stuff beyond maybe a day long workshop which would be awesome and make talks be firmly rooted in "now we're really using it for real things"
09:51 FROGGS lizmat: I just pushed the test file
09:52 Su-Shee masak: oh now THAT would make an awesome workshop - imagine half a day of "applied problem solving in perl 6 for the dirty, messy world" :)
09:52 nwc10 pmichaud: ++jnthn++'s thing being this 160 minute tutorial? http://act.osdc.no/osdc2015no/talk/6154
09:52 pmichaud nwc10: yes
09:53 masak m: my $jnthn; ++$jnthn++
09:53 camelia rakudo-moar 16847e: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to an immutable value␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/Vdues1aIft:1␤␤»
09:53 pmichaud it was highly attended
09:53 * masak read "it was highly attenuated"
09:53 Su-Shee masak: and I would very much appreciate if you'd tell me whose butt I should kick as well :)
09:53 nwc10 perl6++ # better than ++C++ :-)
09:53 RabidGravy speaking of C language bindings is there something that I have missed that does something like https://metacpan.org/source/JSTOWE/TermReadKey-2.32/Configure.pm or is it make one myself?
09:53 Su-Shee so. MR arnsholt! you are next ;)
09:53 DrForr Starting to wish I'd not decided to leave on the 12th :/
09:53 masak Su-Shee: jnthn, pmichaud, niner, arnsholt...
09:54 masak Su-Shee: FROGGS
09:54 pmichaud or, I should say, there were far more people present than jnthn (or I) expected.
09:54 Su-Shee masak: I just put on my good shoes to kick arnsholt's ;)
09:54 FROGGS I'm not coming to Grenada
09:54 masak Su-Shee: maybe you could make nwc10 give a p6 talk, I dunno.
09:54 masak FROGGS: :/
09:54 Su-Shee FROGGS: that's good because it's in granada ;)
09:54 FROGGS ahh :P
09:54 Su-Shee :)
09:55 FROGGS I'll be at the Swiss Perl Workshop though
09:55 * btyler makes a note to submit YAPC::EU talk proposal tonight
09:55 DrForr Oh, this is ::EU discussion.
09:55 RabidGravy I think I may be in a position to start on making a p6 version of Term::ReadKey this week
09:55 masak m: say ((&lc, &uc).pick)($_) for <grenada granada what ever>
09:55 camelia rakudo-moar 16847e: OUTPUT«grenada␤granada␤what␤ever␤»
09:55 masak m: say ((&lc, &uc).pick)($_) for <grenada granada what ever>
09:55 camelia rakudo-moar 16847e: OUTPUT«grenada␤GRANADA␤what␤ever␤»
09:55 masak lizmat_: that's how to do it, btw. obviously ;)
09:55 Su-Shee arnsholt: I would very much like to order a yapc::eu talk from you which centers around languages, encoding and such. not too academic. maybe internationalized regex stuff for example and how to deal with mixed language environment - e.g. you process a text containing greek and latin..
09:56 pmichaud DrForr: I did throw in a ::NA note above :)
09:56 RabidGravy I haven't been to a YAPC::EU (or any perl conference for that matter,) since 2006
09:56 bjz joined #perl6
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09:56 virtualsue i remember that! you did some of the best talks too
09:56 FROGGS RabidGravy: we have LibraryMake
09:56 RabidGravy ;-)
09:56 Su-Shee btyler: what are you thinking about as a subject?
09:57 masak Su-Shee++ # your kicking butt is amazing to behold!
09:57 btyler Su-Shee: something like "distributed systems for poets and perl hackers"
09:57 Su-Shee nwc10: I'm supposed to make you give a talk. what does it take? cookies or violence?
09:57 DrForr Violent cookies.
09:58 arnsholt Su-Shee: I must confess that I know more about languages than about how to encode them =)
09:58 flussence joined #perl6
09:58 Su-Shee btyler: distributed systems is awesome.
09:58 nwc10 Su-Shee: an alpha release.
09:58 FROGGS you can throw cookies for sure
09:58 Su-Shee arnsholt: IT'S TIME TO LEARN IT THEN? ;)
09:58 nwc10 at which point, I might have a plan.
09:58 pmichaud for the last couple of days I've been unable to access yapcna.org -- anyone else able to reach it?
09:58 masak in some cultures, throwing a cookie is a great insult.
09:58 nwc10 pmichaud: I can access it from work
09:58 FROGGS pmichaud: I can't
09:58 DrForr Problem here too.
09:59 nwc10 and from a machine in the UK
09:59 RabidGravy FROGGS, yeah I'm thinking it's probably extend LibraryMake to do anything else that might be needed, the P5 Term::ReadKey actually writes some of its own C code depending on what it finds - I'm looking for something like autoconf but not so shit
09:59 arnsholt Su-Shee: If you write my PhD thesis for me, sure O=)
09:59 Su-Shee arnsholt: well I still would like a nice talk about language processing, not too academic. maybe we can whip up a couple of real world-ish practical uses of NLP?
09:59 FROGGS RabidGravy: "no so shit" :P
10:00 FROGGS RabidGravy: IMO you can only create another kind of shit when you wanna do something autoconfy
10:00 lizmat FROGGS++
10:01 abraxxa joined #perl6
10:01 RabidGravy yeah it's just the M4yness of autoconf that I don't like, I mean that was fine twenty years ago and all
10:02 Su-Shee pmichaud: after our short discussion I would love anything from a lightning talk to more along the lines of "cool shit of perl6", you know everything ranging from the "no floating point trap" to this "many versions next to each other" and "strings done right" and all the other things nobody knows ;)
10:03 dalek roast: 6085e09 | FROGGS++ | S29-type/declarations.t:
10:03 dalek roast: remove outdates Perl 6 types tests
10:03 dalek roast:
10:03 dalek roast: There are better tests in S02-types/declare.t
10:03 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6085e09662
10:03 Su-Shee pmichaud: and after you mentioned you need an audience: "24 year old non-academic javascript hipster hacker" ;)
10:03 dalek rakudo/nom: 2e8f308 | FROGGS++ | t/spectest.data:
10:03 dalek rakudo/nom: remove removed test file
10:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2e8f308a57
10:03 RabidGravy :)
10:04 lizmat_ joined #perl6
10:05 masak Su-Shee: one surprising thing about Perl 6 in the real world is that I almost never use junctions. or if I do, I don't think much of it.
10:05 pmichaud Su-Shee: I think I might come up with a series of 1-minute summaries of cool perl 6 features.  Then my lightning talks can be a sampling of 5 from that series.  :)
10:06 Su-Shee pmichaud: *hihi* "..and now the 38753 lightning talks by patrick michaud.." ;)
10:07 Su-Shee pmichaud: but that would be most lovely. and my promise to write it up as a more advertising paper holds.
10:07 pmichaud yeah, I'm thinking I could even do a    @talks.pick(5)   at the beginning of the talk and that determines what we hear about.  :)
10:07 Su-Shee masak: I don't even remember what junctions are and why I would want them.
10:07 Su-Shee pmichaud: excellent.
10:08 FROGGS I did a lightning talk on Thursday, starting with subroutine signatures, over sub MAIN to multi MAIN where one had a where clause checking for the existence of the pfovided file...
10:08 RabidGravy gwoovy
10:08 FROGGS provided*
10:08 Su-Shee I mean, it's kind of really necessary to actually show things and talk about things and talk about it massively NOW shortly before the release which is perceived as 2the real one" is upon you..
10:10 masak Su-Shee: junctions are `if $value == 1 | 2 | 3`
10:10 FROGGS btw, the atmosphere at the GPW was quite nice P6 wise... I got many ppl asking for details because they tried stuff and of course used P5isms
10:10 Su-Shee oh! oh! and I want VERY MUCH a talk about the jvm backend in terms of "and like in clojure you just bind this stuff here and load it there and then suddenly your java things works perfectly.."
10:10 Su-Shee masak: ah those :)
10:10 masak right.
10:10 masak they look very cool on paper.
10:10 FROGGS ahh, and my lightning talk actually stated with: "Now you all go to perl6.org, click the download button and follow these instructions." :o)
10:11 laouji joined #perl6
10:11 Su-Shee now I have a cat on my ketboard...
10:15 Isp-sec joined #perl6
10:18 pmichaud I wonder who/how I should contact about the yapcna.org site being inaccessible.
10:19 nwc10 pmichaud: for you, at what level does it fail? Can you traceroute to the machine?
10:19 pmichaud nwc10: I'm unable to telnet to port 80 on the machine.
10:20 xfix joined #perl6
10:20 xfix joined #perl6
10:20 nwc10 pmichaud: Oh odd.
10:20 DrForr traceroute fails at cpanel.net.
10:20 pmichaud I can try it from my home machine, though. just a sec.
10:21 Su-Shee it's www.yapcna.org - ypacna.org doesn't work.
10:21 lizmat joined #perl6
10:21 Su-Shee err yapcna of course
10:21 pmichaud ah.  Google search results return "yapcna.org"
10:21 nwc10 ahaa.a
10:21 nwc10 I guess my browser is "helpfully" adding the www and I'm too, er, $impolite-word to notice that
10:22 Su-Shee I just tried both.
10:22 pmichaud I did Google search for "yapc na 2015", then clicked the first result, and no response.
10:22 nwc10 and then, fool that I am, I copied the URL from the desktop browser (at work) to the remote machine
10:23 pmichaud okay, that helps.  Now I at least have a contact address.
10:23 DrForr Because every website must have www. .
10:23 Su-Shee I always wonder how non-technical people manage when we already fail so often.
10:23 Su-Shee DrForr: you just configure it properly so it doesn't matter...
10:24 * DrForr goes back to working on docker configs.
10:24 nwc10 pmichaud: I don't know who adam@cpanel.net or anthony@cpanel.net are
10:24 nwc10 (listed in the whois for 208.74.120.55)
10:24 lizmat jnthn has entered the building
10:25 nwc10 but they are screwed, as the DNS says that:yapcna.org mail is handled by 0 yapcna.org.
10:25 nwc10 and the host is down
10:25 nwc10 so mail is going to be bounced after 5 days
10:27 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
10:28 jnthn afternoon, #perl6
10:29 masak jnthn! \o/
10:29 masak jnthn: time to submit a talk for YAPC::EU! :D
10:29 nwc10 heresy!
10:29 jnthn masak: When's the deadline? :)
10:29 dalek rakudo/nom: 438274c | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.nqp:
10:29 dalek rakudo/nom: Make module loading fail list better
10:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/438274c6fd
10:30 masak jnthn: the deadline is Su-Shee is gonna badger you until you do! :D
10:30 Su-Shee I'm not worried about jnthn ;)
10:31 masak haha :)
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10:38 * RabidGravy scrolls back a bit
10:38 lizmat (switch from flaky wifi to hopefully not so flaky 3G)
10:39 RabidGravy DrForr: fancy writing a p6 version of "fig" or "docker-compose" or whatever it's called these days?  It's on my TODO list, but keeps getting pre-empted
10:40 DrForr Maybe. I need to get what I've got off my plate...
10:41 RabidGravy I think the only particular yak that may need shaving is the http on unix domain sockets thing
10:43 DrForr RabidGravy: Specifically getting ReadLine documented so we can merge it :)
10:49 RabidGravy :)
10:49 Sysaxed` joined #perl6
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10:54 dalek roast: 7afaea0 | lizmat++ | S10-packages/precompilation.t:
10:54 dalek roast: Just try to unlink, don't create a race
10:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7afaea00b2
11:06 pmichaud .u 1f37b
11:06 yoleaux U+1F37B CLINKING BEER MUGS [So] (🍻)
11:06 pmichaud .u 1f37a
11:06 yoleaux U+1F37A BEER MUG [So] (🍺)
11:07 pmichaud r: my $beer = "\C[BEER MUG]";  say unicode $beer;
11:08 camelia rakudo-jvm 438274: ( no output )
11:08 camelia ..rakudo-moar 438274: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\C'␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> 3my $beer = "\7⏏5C[BEER MUG]";  say unicode $beer;␤Undeclared routine:␤    unicode used at line 1␤␤␤»
11:08 lizmat m: say "🍺".succ
11:08 camelia rakudo-moar 438274: OUTPUT«🍺␤»
11:08 pmichaud r: my $beer = "\c[BEER MUG]";  say unicode $beer;
11:08 camelia rakudo-jvm 438274: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Unrecognized character name BEER MUG␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> 3my $beer = "\c[BEER MUG7⏏5]";  say unicode $beer;␤»
11:08 camelia ..rakudo-moar 438274: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Undeclared routine:␤    unicode used at line 1␤␤»
11:08 pmichaud r: my $beer = "\c[BEER MUG]";  say uniname $beer;
11:08 camelia rakudo-moar 438274: OUTPUT«BEER MUG␤»
11:08 camelia ..rakudo-jvm 438274: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Unrecognized character name BEER MUG␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> 3my $beer = "\c[BEER MUG7⏏5]";  say uniname $beer;␤»
11:09 pmichaud m: my $beer = "\c[BEER MUG]";  say uniname $beer;   $beer++;  say uniname $beer;
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 438274: OUTPUT«BEER MUG␤BEER MUG␤»
11:12 laouji joined #perl6
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11:20 masak like with infinity, incrementing beer mug just results in beer mug.
11:21 brrt \o
11:22 DrForr This is amusing. =begin Documentation .. =end Documentation throws "=begin not terminated by matching '=end pod'." Edit '=end Documentation' to '=end pod', guess what error I get?
11:22 DrForr Yep, "=begin not terminated by matching '=end Documentation'."
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11:26 masak DrForr: provide some minimal inputs to demonstrate this, and you have yourself a rakudobug ;)
11:26 masak ++DrForr
11:27 DrForr In a moment. it's probably *actually* bad documentation :)
11:29 DrForr mispeling.
11:30 masak well, that saves some paperwork :)
11:30 DrForr Actually it may be a bug still, testing.
11:33 DrForr '=begin pod\n=begin Documentation\n=en Documentation' exhibits this behavior. I think it's still a bug as it's not picking up the misbalanced =begin..=end pairs.
11:36 masak DrForr: is there a typo ('=en') in what you just wrote?
11:37 masak or is it deliberate?
11:37 DrForr On channel, yes, I tyoped. Let me put it in a gist.
11:37 masak ah, good.
11:39 raiph joined #perl6
11:39 DrForr https://gist.github.com/drforr/3e789b78897759d6cc28
11:40 DrForr Now of course the real problem is that these aren't properly nested.
11:40 muraiki joined #perl6
11:43 DrForr A better error would be "=begin at line 1 has no matching =end"?
11:49 DrForr To be fair, if you pick up on the fact that the line in the *second* error isn't actually in the file, you can figure out what's going on, but it's hard to spot. And if you've been doign this for years you'll assume that the compiler simply got the line wrong :)
11:52 yqt joined #perl6
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11:52 pmichaud would it be at all difficult to change the error message to read  "=begin at line 3 not terminated by matching '=end Documentation'" ?
11:52 pmichaud (i.e., adding "at line 3" to the message)
11:53 FROGGS I believe we have that for another message already
11:53 pmichaud or, perhaps better:    '=begin Documentation' at line 3 not terminated by matching '=end Documentation'
11:53 FROGGS something about a block starting at an earlier line... TimToady++ might remember
11:54 DrForr pmichaud: That'd work as well.
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11:57 DrForr Should I file a bug?
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: f9c9822 | FROGGS++ | t/spectest.data:
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: run test (where all tests are skipped)
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f9c9822f34
11:58 ufobat Another Question, i've got anouther Task::Star test error. I guess its also regarding the change to Nil, like it was before with URI.pm
11:59 ufobat ==> Testing Bailador
11:59 ufobat # Failed test 'route GET /foo exists'
11:59 ufobat # at t/01-route-existance.t line 13
11:59 ufobat # expected: [200, [:Content-Type("text/html")]]
11:59 ufobat #      got: [200, [:Content-Type("text/html")], Any]
12:02 moritz yes, looks like it
12:03 * moritz waits for the question
12:03 moritz either open an issue for Bailador, or send a pull request that fixes it :-)
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12:07 dalek roast: 21024b0 | lizmat++ | S10-packages/precompilation.t:
12:07 dalek roast: Some more sanity and better layout
12:07 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/21024b0e25
12:11 Alina-malina joined #perl6
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12:14 dalek roast: a5a4fc2 | lizmat++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
12:14 dalek roast: Fix too specific test for Exception
12:14 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a5a4fc21c3
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12:32 Su-Shee tadzik: you did panda, didn't you?
12:33 pmichaud DrForr: Yes, file a bug if you haven't done so already.  Thanks.
12:33 DrForr Will do so.
12:34 lizmat Su-Shee: tadzik is travelling atm, I think
12:34 lizmat I'm looking at panda atm, is there something I can help you with ?
12:35 Su-Shee lizmat: no, I was just thinking a talk "how to module in perl6" would maybe be nice.. (creation, deployment, versioning etc etc)
12:35 Su-Shee lizmat: and I somehow saved in my memory that tadzik did a lot of "module"
12:36 lizmat he did
12:36 lizmat and he knows a lot about it
12:36 Su-Shee excellent. will threaten him with invasion if he doesn't comply :)
12:36 nwc10 and cake if he does?
12:37 rindolf joined #perl6
12:37 Su-Shee well I can invade and threaten him with cake, of course :)
12:43 laouji joined #perl6
12:46 domidumont1 joined #perl6
12:59 masak tadzik: I would love a "war stories about making a package manager" talk or something like that.
12:59 cognominal joined #perl6
12:59 Su-Shee it's in general not as easy and simple to the uninitiated as people think because it's a rather long chain from opening your editor until upload/release.
13:00 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 01c92a1 | coke++ | log/ (2 files):
13:00 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
13:00 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/01c92a1878
13:00 dalek perl6-roast-data: 25827d6 | coke++ | / (9 files):
13:00 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
13:00 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/25827d622a
13:01 Su-Shee also, a talk from the area "deployment/software management/almost devops" might be nice.
13:01 FROGGS $ perl6-m -e 'say("flubber¼½worms" ~~ /<:Name(/:s LATIN SMALL/)>+/)'
13:01 FROGGS 「flubber」
13:01 * FROGGS loves regexes
13:02 Su-Shee regexes are awesome. it was the very first thing I learned when I started "programming" and "computer"
13:10 masak m: .say for "flubber¼½worms".comb: /<:Name(/:s LATIN SMALL/)>+/
13:10 camelia rakudo-moar f9c982: ( no output )
13:10 masak o.O
13:11 masak m: .say for "flubber¼½worms".comb: /r/
13:11 camelia rakudo-moar f9c982: OUTPUT«r␤r␤»
13:11 masak FROGGS: are you running a version from the future?
13:14 FROGGS masak: fsvo of future, yes
13:15 DrForr "15 minutes into the future."
13:16 ufobat moritz: i just wanted my thought to be confirmed since i have no clue
13:16 zostay what is the :D for in signatures and such?
13:16 ufobat but you did, so thanks :)
13:16 moritz zostay: it stands for "defined"
13:16 arnsholt zostay: :D is defined, :U is undefined, :T is type object (I think)
13:17 moritz zostay: that is, Int:D only allows Int instances, not the type object itself
13:17 FROGGS though, :T is not yet implemented and :U does what :T should do
13:17 * Juerd found :D very ugly in code, but at least it adds a lot of smileys to compensate for the rather sad };
13:17 masak Juerd: also, you rarely need }; in Perl 6 code
13:18 zostay aha, thanks :D
13:18 FROGGS :D
13:18 masak };
13:18 krakan m: say 1 ~~ (1, 2, 3)
13:18 camelia rakudo-moar f9c982: OUTPUT«False␤»
13:18 Juerd masak: I know, but it feels wrong to leave out the ; after non-builtin-ish things...
13:18 ingy what's the general object serialization method in p6?
13:19 masak krakan: needs some any()
13:19 Juerd ingy: .perl? ;)
13:19 masak m: say 1 ~~ any(1, 2, 3)
13:19 camelia rakudo-moar f9c982: OUTPUT«True␤»
13:19 ingy ta
13:19 krakan masak: ah, ok, thanks
13:19 Juerd Is there a safe reverse of .perl?
13:19 masak Juerd: that's just because you've mostly been working in languages where the distinction between language and userland is constantly visible.
13:19 Juerd masak: Yes.
13:19 ingy .perlfect!
13:20 masak Juerd: I think I heard something about val() once
13:20 Juerd ingy: You perlvert! :D
13:20 masak Juerd: don't know what happened to val(), though.
13:20 masak m: say val("5")
13:20 camelia rakudo-moar f9c982: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/zc5n1qKkjG␤Undeclared routine:␤    val used at line 1␤␤»
13:20 ingy Juerd: You talkin to me, perlchance?!?!
13:22 Juerd Perlhaps.
13:22 * ingy giggles and leaves
13:22 masak you two are very perlsistent.
13:22 molaf joined #perl6
13:23 Su-Shee shall I start singing "perls are the girl's best friend" and hop out of a cake?
13:23 * pmichaud looks for more superlatives and fails.
13:24 Juerd masak: That's just your perlspective
13:25 Juerd pmichaud: Can I perlsuade you to continue looking?
13:25 pmichaud Juerd: perlhaps.
13:25 Su-Shee pmichaud: it would probably be perls before swine anyways ;)
13:25 FROGGS :P
13:25 FROGGS Su-Shee++
13:26 DrForr The first pun that comes to mind I steadfastly *refuse* to use.
13:26 ab5tract joined #perl6
13:34 pmichaud perls before swine:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n5Xl2Q6nIyJ8-uyr2BgarZFfgvasS4tCsA/view?usp=sharing
13:41 agentzh_ joined #perl6
13:43 [Coke] (star-daily log broken?) not updated in a month because nothing has changed in a month.
13:43 [Coke] whereas the version log changes every time we build a new version.
13:43 skids joined #perl6
13:44 Su-Shee pmichaud: hahahaha :) swine before perls! ;)
13:45 pmichaud Su-Shee: I'm reading left-to-right here.  :)
13:45 Su-Shee *hihi* I read from the z-axis ;)
13:45 Su-Shee pmichaud: shall I ask why you have a SWINE handy? ;)
13:45 pmichaud I have no idea.  Wendy brought it, I think.
13:46 Su-Shee well I have at least a postgres elephant. ;)
13:56 * masak .oO( pmichaud has been doing teh perls for so long, he automatically has the swine to put the perls before ) :P
13:56 thou joined #perl6
13:58 jnthn .oO( He uses Perl to bring home the bacon? )
13:59 laouji joined #perl6
13:59 Su-Shee well. ;) http://loldamn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cute-kitty-bite-piglet.jpg
13:59 pmichaud Well, for a long time I was using s-pork for my slide presentations.  :-P
14:00 FROGGS awwwww
14:01 Su-Shee I have cat pictures to illustrate any subject. ;)
14:01 pmichaud Su-Shee: ... a catalog?
14:02 RabidGravy joined #perl6
14:02 TimToady such backalog!
14:02 Su-Shee pmichaud: it's just moving from collection to catalog.. ;)
14:02 pmichaud good *localtime, TimToady
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14:14 dalek roast: 039d420 | FROGGS++ | S05-metasyntax/unicode-property-pair.t:
14:14 dalek roast: add tests for unicode property pairs
14:14 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/039d42068b
14:23 dalek roast: 9fc4b56 | FROGGS++ | S05-metasyntax/unicode-property-pair.t:
14:23 dalek roast: fudge unicode test for jvm
14:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9fc4b56ec8
14:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 8741051 | lizmat++ | src/ (3 files):
14:24 dalek rakudo/nom: Make 'use cur' and @?INC completely operational
14:24 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:24 dalek rakudo/nom: With some great help from jnthn++
14:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/874105144b
14:24 dalek nqp: 547bb85 | FROGGS++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTRegexCompilerMAST.nqp:
14:24 dalek nqp: implement <:Name(/:s LATIN SMALL LETTER/)> for moar
14:24 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/547bb859a1
14:25 dalek rakudo/nom: 4c1d2d5 | FROGGS++ | t (2 files):
14:25 dalek rakudo/nom: bump nqp and run another unicode test file
14:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4c1d2d532f
14:26 FROGGS ohh, nice progress is nice
14:26 timotimo sweet
14:27 FROGGS and it is monday again *cough* :o)
14:28 timotimo yes, i know :)
14:29 timotimo i was waiting for more nice progress to appear from the hackathon, of course ;)
14:30 PerlJam good * all.
14:30 pmichaud PerlJam: /o
14:30 FROGGS hehe
14:30 pmichaud er, o/
14:30 FROGGS hi PerlJam
14:30 pmichaud (actually, my right arm was bothering me much of last week, so perhaps /o is correct.  :)
14:30 moritz sounds like \o\
14:31 PerlJam moritz: not if he's facing me.
14:31 PerlJam :)
14:31 timotimo .o( if The Perl Foundation sponsors a Pyra for me, I may end up doing a lot of portability work on MoarVM and Rakudo for ARM systems ... )
14:31 timotimo moritz: that kind of looks like "get back here, you damn arm!"
14:32 moritz .oO( if TPF sponsors an extended trip to the Bahamas for me, I may end up doing a lot of Bahamas compabitlity hacking on Rakudo and MoarVM )
14:33 Su-Shee moritz: veeery smooth!
14:33 Su-Shee moritz: "das merken die niiiie!" ;)
14:33 timotimo :D
14:33 moritz Su-Shee: :-)
14:33 b2gills masak: the pod in Hash::Ordered is copied after the __END__ marker by a Dist::Zilla plugin, and then the original pod is commented out so that line numbers match between the repository and the released module ( which is then hidden by default on metacpan )
14:33 DrForr Extended trip to the Bahamas? Hello...
14:34 masak b2gills: oh, so it's a Dist::Zilla thing? thank you -- TIL.
14:35 moritz dzil -- all the magic you ever wanted, and then some
14:36 pmichaud more magic:  http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html
14:38 hoelzro ahoy #perl6
14:39 PerlJam pmichaud: My first thought was "ground loop" and the 1994 paragraph at the end sounds like that's probably what it was.
14:39 pmichaud PerlJam: somehow that story came up in conversation this weekend and so I thought I'd past it in now
14:41 masak I remember finding a print version of the jargon file while still a teenager. made an impression on me.
14:41 PerlJam dzil's magic is more like "you are staring at a box with many switches, some of which are invisible.  The box can do magical things ... if only you flip the right switches"
14:42 ribasushi joined #perl6
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14:44 ab5tract hey lizmat
14:44 ab5tract what is "use cur"
14:44 timotimo like "use lib"; cur stands for CompUnitRepo
14:44 ab5tract timotimo: ah, makes sense :)
14:44 muraiki imports mongrel dogs
14:44 ab5tract and resolves my complaint (which was, please no more ambiguous shortening of names!)
14:46 nwc10 er, epic FAIL
14:46 nwc10 write string requires an object with REPR MVMOSHandle
14:53 lizmat ab5tract: it's the new use lib
14:54 lizmat if the functionality is all operational, there will be a rm lib/lib.pm6 and s/cur/lib/ in World
14:54 lizmat *when
14:59 PerlJam Is there some problem building panda with rakudobrew?
14:59 dalek rakudo/nom: fce74e1 | jnthn++ | src/core/Inc.pm:
14:59 dalek rakudo/nom: Ensure we don't end up with standard handles in SC
14:59 dalek rakudo/nom:
14:59 dalek rakudo/nom: Fixes the regression in 8741051.
14:59 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fce74e1089
14:59 jnthn Or at least, the biggy...lizmat++ is working on the regression 54-use-lib.t
14:59 FROGGS joined #perl6
15:00 ab5tract lizmat: interesting :)
15:03 isBEKaml joined #perl6
15:04 * TimToady suspects that "cur" is a bit you-think-that's-cute-today-ish
15:04 PerlJam I just cloned a fresh rakudobrew and used it to install rakudo-moar which happened without a hitch.  But "rakudobrew build-panda" did this: https://gist.github.com/perlpilot/26ba5f94a253d60460e9
15:04 PerlJam Is this a known thing?
15:04 TimToady or is 'cur' a temporary expedient?
15:05 jnthn TimToady: Temporary
15:05 jnthn TimToady: Will become 'lib' when it works nicely, afaiu
15:05 TimToady so it's intentionally cute today :)
15:05 jnthn aye
15:05 * pmichaud gives rakudobrew a try
15:06 TimToady we need to figure out what a Dog type would be someday though, to go with the Rats and Cats
15:07 pmichaud .u 1f408
15:07 yoleaux U+1F408 CAT [So] (🐈)
15:07 pmichaud .u 1f400
15:07 yoleaux U+1F400 RAT [So] (🐀)
15:07 pmichaud .u 1f415
15:07 yoleaux U+1F415 DOG [So] (🐕)
15:10 lizmat TimToady: "cur" is a temporary expedient
15:10 larion joined #perl6
15:10 TimToady yeah, I figgered that out, after an extra cup of coffee or so
15:11 molaf_ joined #perl6
15:12 jnthn train &
15:14 rarara joined #perl6
15:18 isBEKaml joined #perl6
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15:23 brrt .tell jnthn could you try building moar+nqp on windows again
15:23 yoleaux brrt: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
15:23 brrt in 4 hours time or so
15:23 brrt :-)
15:24 FROGGS brrt: I can
15:24 brrt oh, please do
15:24 brrt i have no access to a VM right now
15:25 kurahaupo joined #perl6
15:30 telex joined #perl6
15:32 * brrt afk
15:33 brrt maybe i'll have a vm somewhat later today, i will try to test
15:34 FROGGS brrt: I'm building it right now
15:34 brrt ah ok
15:34 brrt great :-)
15:34 brrt i'll check for results later
15:35 dalek rakudo/nom: 7fada0f | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
15:35 dalek rakudo/nom: Make sure @?INC is a Parcel
15:35 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7fada0f601
15:35 dalek rakudo/nom: 57ae807 | lizmat++ | t/01-sanity/54-use-lib.t:
15:35 dalek rakudo/nom: Make sure we test @?INC at compile time
15:35 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/57ae807819
15:38 FROGGS .tell brrt I was able build: perl6 version 2015.04-221-gfce74e1 built on MoarVM version 2015.04-105-gbec36ae
15:38 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to brrt.
15:51 itz_ joined #perl6
15:52 Ven joined #perl6
15:53 * [Coke] ~~ from the preent.
15:53 [Coke] *present!
15:55 laouji joined #perl6
15:56 pmichaud PerlJam: here's what I got when trying "rakudobrew build panda":  https://gist.github.com/pmichaud/701651b03fbfc6125093
15:57 pmichaud (fail, but for a different reason than yours)
15:59 PerlJam pmichaud: my guess right now is that the latest rakudo+panda is temporarily suffering from the CUR changes
15:59 pmichaud PerlJam: that's been the line going around here as well for the last day or so
16:01 lolisa joined #perl6
16:01 TimToady so, in *theory*, adding a submethod DESTROY () { self.sink } to Failure shouldn't have any effect...
16:01 TimToady in *practice*, not so much
16:01 TimToady blows up 18 test files
16:01 TimToady so we've got some Failure leaks somewhere
16:02 TimToady probably faulty sinking
16:06 TimToady ah, no, just 11 files, was out-of-sync with github
16:06 TimToady maybe Failure.DESTROY should detect that but just issue a warning for now
16:08 TimToady or maybe it's just an order-of-destruction issue for failures that were stored in variables, hmm...
16:09 TimToady still, probably indicates logic errors somewhere
16:11 TimToady not out-of-sync with github, we just have 7 or so failing spectests currently, having to do with modules
16:12 * lizmat is surprised and checks
16:12 ingy TimToady: I was thinking… you probably know I do a ton of Bash programming these days, and for CLI stuff the code really can't be beat by Perl or anything in its class. Mostly because IPC stuff is so beautifully integrated.
16:13 ingy so I was wondering if Perl6 could be awesome in that realm it might be part of the evasive "killerness"
16:13 gfldex joined #perl6
16:14 ingy I mean "beat" in terms of succinctness of the task, and also handling all the devils in IPC stuff (that other langs bolt on)
16:15 lizmat TimToady: confirrmed here, looking at them
16:16 eli-se joined #perl6
16:16 ingy anyway, just wanted to float that out there
16:19 eli-se morning
16:23 cognominal ingy got a pipe dream?
16:24 ingy cognominal: cute :)
16:24 lizmat m: use lib "foo"; .say for @*INC; EVAL q/BEGIN .say for @*INC/   #  huh?
16:24 camelia rakudo-moar 57ae80: OUTPUT«file#foo␤file#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.04-223-g57ae807/lib␤inst#/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.04-223-g57ae807␤file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/lib␤file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor/lib␤file#/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/s…»
16:24 TimToady cognominal: nah, he's just trying to redirect the conversation
16:25 lizmat m: use lib "foo"; say +@*INC; EVAL q/say +@*INC/   #  huh?
16:25 camelia rakudo-moar 57ae80: OUTPUT«9␤8␤»
16:26 cognominal TimToady, but not to /dev/null
16:26 kbenson_ joined #perl6
16:26 ingy TimToady, cognominal: well you punsters may have answered me a bit. Perl 6 can lexically make syntax be (s)hellish :)
16:26 lizmat m: use lib "foo"; say +@*INC; EVAL q/say +@*INC/; say BEGIN +@*INC  #  huh?
16:26 camelia rakudo-moar 57ae80: OUTPUT«9␤8␤9␤»
16:26 cognominal ingy, there is a place for a slang that mimics the shell
16:27 airdisa joined #perl6
16:28 ingy cognominal: ?
16:30 ingy cognominal: I'm not sure what you mean
16:30 cognominal Perl 6 is about weaving sublanguages (or slangs), so far the "normal" slang, the quote slang, the regex slang. A shell language would be a nice addition.
16:30 ingy ah, yes
16:31 ingy I think we can mark this one "solved in theory" then :)
16:31 maddingue joined #perl6
16:31 cognominal I have thinking about it a long time but I am not much a programmer.
16:31 ingy Seems like something I might be interested in doing at some point
16:31 dalek rakudo/nom: 8013195 | TimToady++ | src/core/Failure.pm:
16:31 dalek rakudo/nom: warn if Failure.DESTROY finds unhandled one
16:31 dalek rakudo/nom:
16:31 dalek rakudo/nom: Hopefully not a user-facing warning (much), but should help us find
16:31 dalek rakudo/nom: failure leaks and plug 'em.
16:31 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8013195a2d
16:31 cognominal I am trying to get up to speed with nqp.
16:32 mohij joined #perl6
16:32 ingy cognominal: If I were going to do this I'd look through all my code and find the nicest parts to keep
16:32 cognominal My main complaint so far is that nqp is a different language from Perl 6 making difficult to derive slangs.
16:32 ingy I use bash in xt/ tests a lot for CPAN modules now
16:33 ingy especially the CLI ones (which are a lot)
16:33 spider-mario joined #perl6
16:33 ingy I ported Test::More to bash some time ago
16:33 ingy so I can run all the perl and bash tests with the same `prove` statement
16:34 ingy since prove honors the hashbang
16:34 ingy although I think it may not work with perl6
16:34 moritz does that work on Windows?
16:35 ingy moritz: which part?
16:35 moritz ingy: the tests written in bash, and running them with prove
16:35 ingy that's 2 parts :)
16:36 moritz ingy: and do any of them work on Windows?
16:36 ingy they are xt/ tests, so the first answer is "not critical"
16:36 moritz evasion means "no" :-)
16:36 ingy but the second answer it "I care, and getting closer"
16:37 moritz still sounds like a "no" to me :-)
16:37 ingy moritz: no
16:38 ingy moritz: Is Perl 6 ready for production?
16:38 ingy I mean it's a loaded question
16:38 cognominal ingy, in fact, recently, I said here shell for the Perl 6 repl, and apparently eyes glazed.  In my mind, that's the same thing, just != syntaxes.
16:38 ingy do you want to flog me or talk about it? :)
16:38 nwc10 ingy: I think a fair answer is "not before the GLR is done"
16:38 ingy nwc10: so "no"
16:39 nwc10 ingy: indeed. not yet.
16:39 moritz ingy: "do the tests run on windows" doesn't quite sound like a very loaded question to me
16:39 ingy well you clearly wanted to point out that I hadn't thought about windows
16:40 ingy but I have and I'm working on it
16:40 moritz ingy: I didn't want to point out anything; I simply wanted to know
16:40 skids hugme: hug ingy, moritz
16:40 skids aww no hugme?
16:41 ingy well I explained it to you and you pushed me into a corner
16:41 moritz I *know* you can run bash scripts on windows if certain conditions are met (some kind of POSIX env installed)
16:41 ingy just sayin
16:41 moritz ingy: sorry about that
16:41 ingy np :)
16:42 ingy my point was that I write a lot more (dev/release) tests for CLI system interaction now, because it is easy
16:43 ingy I'd like that ease in perl6
16:44 lizmat joined #perl6
16:45 cognominal me too. Lke the Apple motto is "there is an app for that", the Perl 6 will be "there is a slang for that"
16:46 cognominal but currently to much an involved operation
16:47 cognominal not even sure there is an advent post about that
16:47 cognominal https://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2013/12/16/day-16-slangs/ # I am wrong
16:48 cognominal but that is a mere appetizer
16:49 airdisa joined #perl6
16:50 ugexe -I doesn't appear to work anymore
16:50 jnthn .tell brrt I can confirm it's foxed
16:50 yoleaux 15:23Z <brrt> jnthn: could you try building moar+nqp on windows again
16:50 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to brrt.
16:50 jnthn .tell brrt I can confirm it's *fixed*
16:50 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to brrt.
16:54 lizmat ugexe: can you elaborate?
16:55 ugexe if i do 'perl6 -Ilib t/some-testfile.t' it will tell me it cant find 'Some::Module' and then lists the compunitrepos but /lib is not listed
16:56 ugexe same when i try to install panda... it cant find File::Find
16:57 dalek perl6-roast-data: 84b93ac | coke++ | / (9 files):
16:57 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
16:57 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6-roast-data/commit/84b93acab7
16:57 tony-o i get file#lib in my output for that, i do have the issue with panda though
16:58 tony-o Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/gen/m-CORE.setting' (from 'lib/File/Find.pm')
16:58 lizmat ugexe: confirmed, investigating that as well
17:00 ugexe tony-o: you have leftovers from a previous install
17:00 ugexe ive made a habit of doing rakudobrew nuke moar && rakudobrew build moar
17:00 tony-o i don't know what nuke is going to do but it sounds like fun
17:01 tony-o ah ^
17:01 zengargoyle a few days ago i did an upgrade of a long dormant perlbrew setup... had lots of breakage and ended up nuking everything and starting from blank
17:01 tadzik Su-Shee: yes, I did panda :)
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17:01 tony-o maybe that's why i also see file#lib with -I
17:02 tadzik masak: hmm, talk idea sounds interesting
17:02 tadzik masak: although the war stories would be rather peaceful :)
17:03 ugexe tony-o: i am trying to run a test which needs it before compile time (via a use statement). doing -Ilib -e 'say @*INC' is after compile time
17:05 timotimo japhb: it'd be nice if bench quickstart would complain about the several perl5 dependencies missing before starting to do a lot of stuff
17:06 [Coke] still getting a bunch of failures on the daily runs in integration/advent2009-day17 , across backends.
17:06 lizmat error: a cherry-pick or revert is already in progress
17:06 lizmat how do I fix that ?
17:06 lizmat Am about to revert my commits of today  :-(
17:06 timotimo resetting git with --hard perhaps?
17:06 timotimo that'll nuke all state i suppose, and all changes made so far
17:07 lizmat did that already
17:07 [Coke] looks like that's a stress test, not a spectest.
17:07 timotimo huh
17:08 [Coke] git cherry-pick --abort ?
17:08 [Coke] (assuming there was some merge conflict that got in the way there on the cherry pick?)
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17:09 lizmat I had to stash stuff after I tried it for the first time
17:10 [Coke] maybe the stash and the half done cherry pick conflicted? iunno.
17:12 lizmat I cloned again, did the revert there, copied the files, running spectest now
17:12 pyrimidine joined #perl6
17:12 tony-o ugexe: i know - here is a gist: https://gist.github.com/tony-o/8a97b8d965703729d6b7
17:13 tony-o ugexe: this is freshly built ^
17:13 yqt joined #perl6
17:15 ugexe so it would seem its if its a dependency of something that is 'use'd it doesnt get found before @*INC is populated?
17:16 lizmat we're shutting down in Oslo right now
17:17 ugexe so if your 'use Dumy' was a real module but had a 'use Dummy2', it wouldnt find Dummy2
17:18 dalek rakudo/nom: bcc8e2c | lizmat++ | src/ (3 files):
17:18 dalek rakudo/nom: Revert the @?INC work of today, it broke too much
17:18 dalek rakudo/nom:
17:18 dalek rakudo/nom: This should unbreak the spectest, but am not sure about panda
17:18 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bcc8e2c5c7
17:18 lizmat away for a few hours at least&
17:24 Su-Shee tadzik: lovely! did you see the plans I have in mind for you? ;)
17:24 tony-o ugexe: ill give it a shot with a real module
17:25 vendethiel lizmat++ # experimenting a lot to improve what we have :)
17:25 Su-Shee tadzik: any other talk idea welcome too.
17:25 ugexe lizmat: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/874105144bdb1c56437178e677d9b0c9bc6f1c57/src/Perl6/World.nqp#L644 + Line 648/649. Its just pushing 1 or 0 onto $INC
17:25 ugexe oh nm
17:28 koo6 joined #perl6
17:29 tadzik Su-Shee: yeah, something about cake :P
17:29 * timotimo is currently running a benchmark session
17:29 tadzik Su-Shee: so was this about talks or inv^Wcake?
17:31 Su-Shee tadzik: I promised to kick perl 6 butts for yapc::eu to have more perl6 - real world perl6 - talks and more than "jnthn does 5 talks" :) and I didn't want to leave out you ;)
17:31 tadzik :) Alright
17:31 FROGGS joined #perl6
17:31 tadzik when does cfp end?
17:32 Su-Shee tadzik: so one idea was "how to module in perl6" - something along the line of toolchaining/deployment/ and such. there's more to a module than just making it
17:32 Su-Shee tadzik: no idea, lemme look
17:33 pdcawley_ joined #perl6
17:33 Su-Shee tadzik: it doesn't say. ;)
17:34 DrForr Jun 30.
17:34 Su-Shee DrForr: where did you find that?
17:34 DrForr http://act.yapc.eu/ye2015/pricesanddates.html
17:35 [Coke] bartolin: Looks like 125146 may also relate to the crash in t/spec/integration/advent2009-day17.t
17:35 DrForr I'm tempted to create a talk on grammars actually.
17:36 Su-Shee DrForr: well as long as you make it "real world" and not some rare uber-fancy thing you'll encounter exactly once in your life and nobody elses.. :)) also, ENCODING? ;)
17:36 Su-Shee tadzik: 30th june
17:36 DrForr Does parsing JS count? :)
17:37 Su-Shee DrForr: for example..
17:37 PerlJam DrForr: I think if you could show a grammar that parses JS and then how to derive from that a grammar that parses coffeescript (for example) would be very interesting  :)
17:37 Su-Shee DrForr: or, I was thinking maybe something like making a JSON module live.. (not that there is another one needed probably..)
17:38 Su-Shee PerlJam: hey! order stuff for your yapc! ;)
17:38 vendethiel grammar that parses coffeescript? good luck with that...
17:38 vendethiel (hint: indentation is by far not the hardest part :P)
17:39 DrForr Well, I'm putting the finishing touches on an ANTLR parser as I type.
17:39 Su-Shee DrForr: ok, stupid question: can it generate js as well?
17:40 hoelzro what's the difference between my $result = callsame; and my \result = callsame? what exactly is the latter doing?
17:40 PerlJam hoelzro: the first imposes an item context on the result, the latter does not.
17:40 vendethiel hoelzro: not containerizing
17:40 hoelzro ahhhhhh
17:40 hoelzro thanks PerlJam, vendethiel
17:41 DrForr Not that I'm aware of, and that would probably get ito the mind-mangling realm.
17:42 * DrForr hears a loud *pop* from the shelf that holds the *good* alcohol and notices for the first time how badly distorted the TV shelf looks.
17:45 tadzik Su-Shee: alrighty then
17:46 DrForr Well, generating JS from *perl* would be close to mind-mangling, generating JS from a data structure fairly simple but kind of pointless, as you'd have to ensure by hnad that you're generating syntactically valid JS, kind of defeating the purpose.
17:47 tadzik Su-Shee: although to be fair, your idea is more dogfooding than real world perl6 :)
17:47 Su-Shee DrForr: what I never get: why would I want to parse js from perl? what do I do with it then?
17:47 tadzik Su-Shee: I could talk about gamedev again, each time I do it forces me to work on my engine some more
17:48 Su-Shee tadzik: consider it an idea - you have done lots of relevant things and deployment/modules/version management is relevant to bring p6 into business
17:48 tadzik true
17:48 tadzik I can submit two :)
17:48 Su-Shee tadzik: most certainly you can do that!
17:48 DrForr JS is just an example, I'm sure there are more relevant languages or even just configuraiton file formats to work with.
17:49 Su-Shee DrForr: that was a real question, I never understood why I would want to parse lang x in perl. config files I understand of course.
17:49 DrForr Roundtripping JS-perl-JS might be more useful, and not *that* hard to do.
17:50 PerlJam Su-Shee: It's a middle step from auto-generating working software from a high-level description of what the software should do (and the generating software should clearly be written in perl ;)
17:50 Su-Shee PerlJam: yes, but what is it good for? what do I end up with what is useful to me?
17:51 Su-Shee PerlJam: and: is it relevant for many developers and their every day work?
17:51 PerlJam Su-Shee: "Computer, make me a cake"   *poof*  Cake.   ;-)
17:51 DrForr It's a middle layer. On its own it's not terribly useful, but that doesn't mean it doesn't need to be done.
17:51 Su-Shee PerlJam: that is a totally useless metaphor for me. a real world example please.
17:51 DrForr And what I'm working on lets you bootstrap every language there's an ANTLR grammar for.
17:51 * Su-Shee is too stupid to get from "Cake" to "useful software"
17:54 Su-Shee what I'm getting at is having as many perl 6 talks as possible which are a good addition to the christmas announcement of "perl 6 production ready" and that means: anything useful for production. ;) I know that you can do cool brainfuck stuff with it. but how many times do you need that "in production"?
17:55 PerlJam good point. practicality first.  Crazy futuristic stuff later.
17:56 Su-Shee yes. because if you want to convince anybody to _actually_ use perl6, it needs to be shown to people.
17:56 jnthn Or use the crazy futuristic stuff to solve very practical problems very well. :P
17:57 Su-Shee if you can bring it to the masses and make it useful for us common folk.. :)
17:57 DrForr If all you want is production tools rewritten in perl6 then why bother rewriting in the first place? Oh, I know, futuristic bugs!
17:57 Su-Shee DrForr: I'm caring only for the marketing, perception and success.
17:58 Su-Shee DrForr: but I'm happy to take any great idea making .. 24 year old javascript hipsters flock to perl 6 :)
17:58 DrForr Right. I guess what I'm really trying to say is there isn't a large enough userbase to know what the "killer app" is going to be just yet.
17:58 tony-o less the 24 yr old part some of us are already here Su-Shee
17:58 Su-Shee yes, and how would you create such a userbase?
17:59 tony-o free healthcare
17:59 DrForr Egg, meet chicken. Chicken, egg.
17:59 PerlJam Eggs came first.
17:59 Su-Shee oh well. submit whatever you want; in the end it's your community's choice on where to place yourself.
18:00 tony-o the async stuff in perl6 is what originally got me to kick the node fix
18:00 Su-Shee yes. I will cover that.
18:00 Su-Shee I submitted a talk "against node envy" in february already. ;)
18:01 * jnthn will continue the async fixing/polishing work after his next couple of days teaching are done. :)
18:01 Su-Shee jnthn: your talk convinced me to add perl6 ;)
18:01 tadzik Su-Shee: ooh, that sound sinteresting :)
18:01 Su-Shee jnthn: the one yesterday.
18:01 vendethiel Su-Shee: hi, I'm a 20y-o *coffeescript* hipster that flocked to perl6 :)
18:01 Su-Shee awesome that makes two. now bring the other couple of hundred. ;)
18:02 vendethiel working on that. though I havn't written my fpw slides yet.. :)
18:02 tony-o Su-Shee: are those talks available online?
18:02 timotimo can a single person be said to "flock"?
18:02 PerlJam Su-Shee: I've occasionally thought the Perl 6 community should have a document that tries to answer why certain groups of people would use Perl 6.  "I'm new to programming, why Perl 6?"  "I'm a Java developer, why would I use Perl 6?"   "I'm a Perl 5 programmer, why would I use Perl 6?"
18:02 larion joined #perl6
18:02 PerlJam etc.
18:02 vendethiel timotimo: i'm pretty fat :P
18:02 Su-Shee vendethiel: tony-o: then please please submit a talk "why I abondoned node.js for perl6" or something like it.
18:02 vendethiel Su-Shee: never would I use such a lowly tactic :)
18:03 Su-Shee tony-o: which talks?
18:03 timotimo vendethiel: wait what.
18:03 Su-Shee vendethiel: ?! why??
18:03 vendethiel because nodejs is web scale! you turn it up and it scales right up
18:03 tadzik vendethiel: why? It's okay, noders probably won't see it anyway :P
18:03 tony-o timotimo: i think a single person joining another group is considered flocking, if for no other reason just colloquial
18:03 vendethiel just like mongodb
18:03 tony-o Su-Shee: the against node envy
18:04 Su-Shee tony-o: I _submitted_ it - it's a talk for yapc::eu in september. ;)
18:04 Su-Shee haven't even written the code yet
18:04 tony-o ah!
18:04 DrForr Port Mojo, Dancer and whatever you like to perl6, you'll have Mojo and Dancer with different bugs. We've got to have time to find out what Perl6 will be good at, we're too busy finding and fixing bugs at the moment :)
18:04 Su-Shee tadzik: well people told me they liked the comparison aspect of the web frameworks thing, so I decided I'll compare the async stuff
18:05 Su-Shee vendethiel: so and why wouldn't you submit such a talk?
18:05 vendethiel Su-Shee: because it sounds like buzz titles
18:05 DrForr And I use 'we' to mean 'you' as I really haven't done a lot yet.
18:05 Su-Shee vendethiel: dude, that's why I asked for it.
18:06 vendethiel (I'd rather not have "dude" :P)
18:06 Su-Shee vendethiel: you can fill it with real content. it still IS a relevant thing.
18:06 vendethiel yeah, but I want people to be interested in what I have to say, not in some buzzfeed-like title
18:06 Su-Shee vendethiel: honey [] dear [] that's why I asked for it. ;)
18:06 vendethiel left #perl6
18:07 PerlJam huh
18:07 Su-Shee vendethiel: you do realize that perl in general is desperate for interesting ideas how to make people be interested again?
18:08 Su-Shee it would be the perfect addition to lestrad's talk how he made the yapc::asia 1200 people large..
18:09 DrForr One of the major idaes I remember from that is rebranding to more 'web development'.
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18:12 Su-Shee well it's none of my business what perl 6 as a community thinks is a good idea, I'm just making sure that you actually submit talks and have a shot at convincing people...
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18:16 DrForr For my part the most convincing argument I saw was Curtis pointing out how much cr*p Java coders have to put up, and how much of that Perl6 gets rid of.
18:17 Su-Shee yeah, but on the other hand: java 8 is actually quite decent..
18:21 DrForr And most of my time so far has been spent alternately finding compiler bugs and writng chunks of code while trying to ignore the "I'm about to get mugged" sensation that comes with new libraries and a new *language*.
18:22 jdv79 mugged?
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18:24 DrForr Hyperbole mostly, but when I was starting out I'd go along writing code, then find out "Oh, this doesn't work as it used to, what do I do *now*? Oh, nice, *that's* differ..wait, how do I... Oh, cute.
18:24 DrForr s/$/"
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18:34 FROGGS TimToady: instead of reinterpreting a regex subset in INTERPOLATE's EVAL, can't we mess with EVAL's context so that it does not see e.g. $arg?
18:34 FROGGS m: my $a = '<{ say $arg }> <?>'; '' ~~ / <$a> /
18:34 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«<{ say $arg }> <?>␤»
18:35 FROGGS m: my $x = 42; EVAL 'say $x'
18:35 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«42␤»
18:35 FROGGS m: my $x = 42; EVAL 'say $x', :!context
18:35 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«Cannot call EVAL("say \$x", :!context); none of these signatures match:␤    (Cool $code, Str :lang($lang) where { ... }, PseudoStash :context($context))␤    (Cool $code, Any :lang($lang) = { ... }, PseudoStash :context($context))␤  in block <unit> at…»
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18:36 FROGGS m: my $x = 42; EVAL 'say $x', :context(PseudoStash)
18:36 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«42␤»
18:36 timotimo :context(CORE) :)
18:36 timotimo er, i mean CORE::
18:36 FROGGS m: my $x = 42; EVAL 'say $x', :context(CORE::)
18:36 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling EVAL_0␤Variable '$x' is not declared␤at EVAL_0:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5$x␤»
18:36 FROGGS hehe
18:36 FROGGS hmmmm
18:36 FROGGS I'll try that
18:36 FROGGS timotimo++
18:36 brrt joined #perl6
18:37 DrForr I,I "I got 99 problems but a switch ain't one."
18:38 rba_ joined #perl6
18:38 FROGGS ohh, I can perhaps pass the correct CALLER:: around
18:39 timotimo hmm
18:39 timotimo seems like current rakudo-moar on nom "writes to STDERR" on rc-forest-fire; maybe a fix is needed for latest flattening/itemization fixes/changes
18:40 brrt \o
18:40 yoleaux 15:38Z <FROGGS> brrt: I was able build: perl6 version 2015.04-221-gfce74e1 built on MoarVM version 2015.04-105-gbec36ae
18:40 yoleaux 16:50Z <jnthn> brrt: I can confirm it's foxed
18:40 yoleaux 16:50Z <jnthn> brrt: I can confirm it's *fixed*
18:40 yoleaux 18:37Z <PerlJam> brrt: Have you seen http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/pubs/tiler.pdf
18:40 brrt yay
18:41 DrForr m: token f { 'a'? } "b" =~/<f>/;
18:41 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at /tmp/5AadvQoo4p:1␤------> 3token f { 'a'? }7⏏5 "b" =~/<f>/;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end…»
18:41 brrt PerlJam - not read it, but have seen the strategy mentioned iirc
18:41 FROGGS m: token f { 'a'? }; "b" =~/<f>/;
18:41 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Unsupported use of =~ to do pattern matching; in Perl 6 please use ~~␤at /tmp/78rlyweHjj:1␤------> 3token f { 'a'? }; "b" =~7⏏5/<f>/;␤Other potential difficulties:␤    Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainlin…»
18:41 brrt thanks :-)
18:42 DrForr Oh, right. IN any case I was actually interested in whether optional terms now return 'Empty' as opposed to 'Nil'.
18:42 brrt fwiw, i made a tiny mistake, but it works out nicely; instead of 32 bytes of scratch space we now have 64 bytes of scratch space
18:42 jgoff left #perl6
18:42 brrt i.o.w. 'enough for every last caller-saved GPR'
18:43 dalek nqp/mast_localref_2: 34b1373 | timotimo++ | t/moar/02-qast-references.t:
18:43 dalek nqp/mast_localref_2: returning a str from a localref scoped var is wrong
18:43 dalek nqp/mast_localref_2: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/34b1373161
18:44 tony-o_ m: ('a'..'z').pick(64).join('').chars.say
18:44 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«26␤»
18:44 tony-o_ oh i need roll
18:44 tony-o_ m: ('a'..'z').roll(64).join('').chars.say
18:44 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«64␤»
18:49 espadrine_ joined #perl6
18:49 grondilu m: "hi"\     .say # suddenly wondering if unspaces work
18:49 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«hi␤»
18:50 tony-o_ m: "hi".\ s\ a\ y
18:50 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/qFB_lBm97z␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/qFB_lBm97z:1␤------> 3"hi".\ s\ 7⏏5a\ y␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤ …»
18:50 grondilu I don't think you can put them inside what would otherwise be a token.
18:50 meisl joined #perl6
18:51 spider-mario joined #perl6
18:51 timotimo right
18:52 japhb timotimo: Did you create a GHI for that perl6-bench quickstart idea (bailing out if the perl5 does not have modules it needs)?
18:54 timotimo not yet
18:55 timotimo but if i do, it could also scan the benchmarks for use statements
18:55 timotimo Data::Alias and List::Util at least
18:55 timotimo oh, wait
18:55 timotimo those need to be installed in the component itself, not the system, right?
19:03 FROGGS timotimo: seems I managed to get the context right
19:03 FROGGS le spectest will tell
19:04 Sysaxed` joined #perl6
19:04 pdcawley joined #perl6
19:19 timotimo cool :)
19:25 japhb timotimo: Correct.
19:25 japhb Something I started and never completed.  :-(
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom: f0e142b | FROGGS++ | src/ (2 files):
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom: fix context of EVAL in regex interpolation
19:29 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f0e142b3a2
19:30 Su-Shee so. I will remind you all about the deadline once or twice. ;) SUBMIT.
19:30 Su-Shee left #perl6
19:32 laouji joined #perl6
19:36 meisl Hi there, thx again for the kind help I received lately on the nqp toolchain :)
19:36 FROGGS hi meisl
19:36 meisl hi FROGGS
19:38 meisl got a (very simple) compiler running, for my lambda calculator thingy :D
19:38 camelia joined #perl6
19:39 masak 'night, #perl6
19:39 meisl have a good rest, masak
19:39 FROGGS gnight masak
19:42 FROGGS m: my $foo = 42; my $a = '<{ say $arg }> .'; say 'bar' ~~ / <$a> /  # this will stop working in a bit
19:42 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«<{ say $arg }> .␤<{ say $arg }> .␤<{ say $arg }> .␤<{ say $arg }> .␤Nil␤»
19:42 FROGGS m: my $foo = 42; my $a = '<{ say $foo }> .'; say 'bar' ~~ / <$a> /  # and this will work instead
19:42 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling EVAL_0␤Variable '$foo' is not declared␤at EVAL_0:1␤------> 3anon regex { <{ say 7⏏5$foo }> .}␤»
19:43 jdv79 what does "1<&1" mean?
19:44 meisl jdv79: on Windows I guess?
19:44 FROGGS I know about 2>&1, but not 1<&1
19:44 FROGGS 2>&1 does work on windows too btw
19:45 meisl without having tried: seems like a no-op to me...?
19:45 jdv79 just looking at https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=77650
19:46 geekosaur I'd expect it to be a no-op as well
19:46 jdv79 ok
19:46 FROGGS jdv79: this is just some code to produce a warning
19:47 FROGGS m: sub 1 { 2 }; say &1
19:47 camelia rakudo-moar bcc8e2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ouL2IdpO42␤Missing block␤at /tmp/ouL2IdpO42:1␤------> 3sub7⏏5 1 { 2 }; say &1␤    expecting any of:␤        new name to be defined␤»
19:48 geekosaur oh, that's being evaluated by perl6, not by the shell. syntax error.
19:49 FROGGS ohh, &1 translates to $/[1] it seems
19:49 FROGGS m: say "foo" ~~ /(.)(.)(.)/; say &1
19:49 camelia rakudo-moar f0e142: OUTPUT«「foo」␤ 0 => 「f」␤ 1 => 「o」␤ 2 => 「o」␤「o」␤»
19:49 FROGGS m: "foo" ~~ /(.)(.)(.)/; say &1
19:49 camelia rakudo-moar f0e142: OUTPUT«「o」␤»
19:49 FROGGS weird
19:49 jdv79 FROGGS: where'd you find that out?
19:50 FROGGS look at: perl6-m --target=ast -e 'say &2'
19:50 jdv79 anyway that ticket seems bogus, right?  closable as per last comment?
19:50 FROGGS - QAST::Op(call &say) say &2
19:50 FROGGS - QAST::Op(call &postcircumfix:<[ ]>)
19:50 FROGGS - QAST::Var(lexical $/ :decl())
19:50 FROGGS - QAST::WVal(Int)
19:51 meisl so, to be clear - this has absolutely nothing to do with shell/cmd redirection, right?
19:51 FROGGS hmmm, I dunno if these test function are supposed to swallow stderr... so I cannot judge
19:51 FROGGS meisl: correct
19:52 [Coke] m: rakudo: use Test; eval_lives_ok '1<&1'
19:52 camelia rakudo-moar f0e142: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤␤# Failed test at /tmp/GwlaEa0J1v line 1␤# Error: Whitespace required before < operator␤»
19:53 jdv79 iirc, and the last comment confirms, tests do generate STDERR in the p5 world.  so how to find out if that is correct in this world?
19:53 [Coke] m: rakudo: use Test; eval_lives_ok '1 <&1'
19:53 camelia rakudo-moar f0e142: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in numeric context at EVAL_0 line 1  in any <unit-outer> at EVAL_0:1␤␤ok 1 - ␤»
19:53 FROGGS m: my $foo = 42; my $a = '<?{ say $foo }> .+'; say 'bar' ~~ / <$a> /  # \o/
19:53 camelia rakudo-moar f0e142: OUTPUT«42␤「bar」␤»
19:54 [Coke] I *think* the original complaint was that test builtins shouldn't be complaining to stderr. I think if the test does something that leaks to stderr, that's fine.
19:56 |Tux| joined #perl6
19:56 meisl I think this test is really about what leaks to stderr or not, &1 being just a thing to make eval complain
19:56 geekosaur I think most of us expected that to be a shell thing, not a perl6 thing
19:56 meisl Coke: yes, just what you said
19:56 geekosaur someone probably noticed this when they botched quoting of a redirected perl6 :)
19:57 jdv79 yeah, ok.  i don't get why there should be that distinction but sure:)
19:58 meisl well, that's what I'd call a bad test: whatever the result should be or not - you're being led to a completely wrong path at first sight
19:59 meisl so instead of using &1 in that (alleged) comparison I'd propose using $IamNotNumeric
19:59 jdv79 stderr is potentially poisonous in any case.  i could better understand filtering all of it to prepend a # but *.
20:00 meisl and then the thing about ws before <, is the test about that or the non-numeric in numeric context?!
20:11 literal W 4
20:11 literal oops
20:11 atweiden joined #perl6
20:12 Possum joined #perl6
20:12 airdisa joined #perl6
20:27 lizmat joined #perl6
20:28 dalek roast: f962253 | (Justin DeVuyst)++ | S24-testing/3-output.t:
20:28 dalek roast: Tests for RT #77650.
20:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f962253f72
20:28 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=77650
20:30 eli-se joined #perl6
20:31 colomon joined #perl6
20:34 laouji joined #perl6
20:39 cygx joined #perl6
20:40 cygx o/
20:44 brrt joined #perl6
20:44 jdv79 is https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=77350 misclassified as closable with tests?
20:45 FROGGS m: grammar A { token TOP { <so> }; token so { 'foo' | 'bar' } }; say A.parse('foo')
20:45 camelia rakudo-moar f0e142: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤  in regex so at /tmp/4ceGnSSjO9:1␤  in regex TOP at /tmp/4ceGnSSjO9:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/4ceGnSSjO9:1␤␤»
20:45 FROGGS jdv79: seems like
20:45 cygx I've been playing around with macros and implemented assert at https://github.com/cygx/p6-assert
20:46 cygx should I add that to the ecosystem, or are the module names (assert, DEBUG, NDEBUG) too invasive?
20:46 FROGGS hmmm, I guess these names are fine
20:46 geekosaur we could do better than names lifted directly from C
20:47 FROGGS true
20:47 FROGGS but I would not call them invasive
20:48 colomon as module names?
20:48 cygx colomon: yes
20:48 [Coke] well, it's "testneeded", but the test will currently fail if you use the updated one, aye.
20:48 [Coke] (jdv79)
20:48 cygx colomon: they intentionally look like pragmas
20:49 [Coke] add a fudged failing test and then we can unmark test needed.
20:49 colomon cygx: that seems mildly wrong to me.
20:49 colomon I mean, they’re not pragmas, right?
20:50 cygx colomon: well, they are not proper modules either
20:50 jdv79 [Coke]: ok, cool.
20:50 colomon why not?
20:50 cygx DEBUG and NDEBUG just set environment vars and can be called repeatedly
20:50 cygx assert exposes a single macro
20:51 dolmen joined #perl6
20:51 colomon hurm, does “use DEBUG” actually turn it on?
20:51 * colomon is thinking this sounds quite cool, even if he’s not 100% convinced by the names
20:53 cygx colomon: yes, in contrast to C assert, you need to enable debug mode
20:53 dalek roast: ffe2c59 | lizmat++ | S24-testing/3-output.t:
20:53 dalek roast: Update test count
20:53 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ffe2c598a5
20:54 colomon cygx: is it a general framework or just assert?
20:54 cygx colomon: right now,just assert - but DEBUG and NDEBUG can easily be repurposed
20:56 colomon cygx: feels to me like you’re right on the verge of something awesome.  My instinct is the names still need a tweak, but you might do very well to get it in the Ecosystem as is, and figure out the tweaks later.
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 536c26f | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Make 'use cur' / @?INC operational (attempt #2)
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/536c26ff27
20:58 meisl I've got some questions on QAST::Stmt(s) - anyone?
20:58 lizmat note: this does not fix panda, getting less sure that's my fault
21:00 larion joined #perl6
21:00 telex joined #perl6
21:01 timotimo lizmat++ # perseverance
21:03 FROGGS meisl: ask
21:06 meisl well, actually I'm wondering what they are for at all...? (I do get working code if I stick my Ops and even just Vars right under the Block)
21:10 FROGGS meisl: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/docs/qast.markdown#qaststmts-and-qaststmt
21:13 fhelmberger joined #perl6
21:14 jdv79 lizmat: thanks
21:16 meisl FROGGS: hm, yes I've read this, or similar elsewhere, and it appears reasonable at 1st sight to explicitly group a nr of statements under Stmt - but...
21:18 meisl FROGGS: ...what else could be inside a Block than a seq of stmts? even more so given that any expression is also a stmt; plus...
21:19 FROGGS meisl: maybe jnthn can explain :o)
21:19 sftp joined #perl6
21:20 meisl FROGGS: ...plus that it *does* work *without* the extra Stmt(s) around it, just right under Block (some magic going on that sanitizes my illformed QAST tree?)
21:20 FROGGS hmmm, not sure that this happens
21:22 meisl well, I have to admit that I didn't check that (magic?) thoroughly, just judging from my toy examples
21:23 larion joined #perl6
21:27 meisl FROGGS: ok, anyways. maybe you can elucidate "[...] QAST::Stmt [...] can lead to better code [...] if used correct. Incorrect use can, of course, lead to incorrect code"
21:28 lizmat FROGGS jnthn : do you know of a way inside World.nqp to find out the backend we're running under ?
21:28 FROGGS meisl: ahh, QAST::Stmt marks a register allocation boundary, so there is at least one difference
21:28 FROGGS lizmat: gimme a sec
21:29 FROGGS lizmat: if nqp::getcomp('perl6').backend.name ne 'moar' {
21:29 lizmat FROGGS++
21:30 meisl FROGGS: yes, it's something about locals but I still don't really get it
21:31 FROGGS yeah, perhaps talk with jnthn about it
21:31 meisl FROGGS: in particular I would really like to know what exactly is *incorrect use*
21:31 FROGGS me needs to go to bed now
21:31 FROGGS well, trying to share temporaries across QAST::Stmt's
21:31 * lizmat hopes FROGGS will get a good night's rest
21:32 FROGGS ohh, I will :o)
21:32 FROGGS gnight #perl6
21:32 meisl o yea, thx a lot, FROGGS
21:33 agentzh_ joined #perl6
21:41 colomon joined #perl6
21:41 cygx what's a good name for a logging function that doesn't clash with the logarithm?
21:43 eli-se logging::log
21:44 * colomon still thinks there should be a namespace, just doesn’t know what
21:44 lizmat nsa::log
21:44 eli-se Namespaces are one honking great idea.
21:47 cygx dbg:: ?
21:53 meisl cygx: log::log
21:55 timotimo how about łog?
21:56 kurahaupo shouldn't the function name for "logarithm" be "ln"?
21:56 firecat joined #perl6
21:56 timotimo well, log is usually log10 and ln is usually log_e
21:56 meisl or lg
21:57 timotimo m: say log 10; say ln 10
21:57 camelia rakudo-moar 536c26: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/pEGbZqU7i1␤Undeclared routine:␤    ln used at line 1. Did you mean 'lc', 'on'?␤␤»
21:57 timotimo we don't seem to have ln under that name
21:57 timotimo but we do have the natural log, right?
21:57 timotimo m: say log 10; say lg 10
21:57 camelia rakudo-moar 536c26: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FwZsYdItH3␤Undeclared routine:␤    lg used at line 1. Did you mean 'lc'?␤␤»
21:57 kurahaupo timotimo: it's just a fixed ratio; log_10(x) = ln(x)/ln(10)
21:57 timotimo of course
21:58 cygx well, at least some mathematicians often denote log_e as log as well
21:58 meisl m: say ln 2.7
21:58 camelia rakudo-moar 536c26: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/MSXR6OmJHr␤Undeclared routine:␤    ln used at line 1. Did you mean 'lc', 'on'?␤␤»
21:58 kurahaupo timotimo: and "length" works as ceil(ln(x)/ln(10))
21:58 kurahaupo err, floor
21:58 cygx personally, I prefer log for the generic function, lg for base 10 and ln for base e
21:58 cygx at least some mathematicians _consistently_
21:59 cygx anyway, I went with logger for now (as in `use logger`)
21:59 kurahaupo Maybe log-base-10 should be written Num.length ? :-)
21:59 meisl well, you can call it logg, as opposed to a big chunk of wood
22:00 firecat joined #perl6
22:03 meisl hehe, `use log` somehow reminds of Monkey Island days
22:03 cygx if someone wants to keep bikeshedding, the code is at https://github.com/cygx/p6-debug
22:03 geekosaur l7m :p
22:04 cygx use DEBUG/use NDEBUG now set environment vars in the PERL6_DEBUG_* namespace
22:04 cygx assert works as in C, logger just does a &note
22:04 timotimo Pod::To::HTML just OOM'd on my laptop in its t/02-code.t
22:05 timotimo and it could very well be that it's going to do the same in the 04-lists.t as well
22:07 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
22:08 lolisa joined #perl6
22:08 timotimo this time i may kill it before it OOM's and gets other things on my machine killed
22:09 jdv79 m: class foo is Any; say foo.^methods # why nothing?
22:09 camelia rakudo-moar 536c26: OUTPUT«␤»
22:09 lizmat m: class foo is Any; say foo.^methods(:all)
22:09 camelia rakudo-moar 536c26: OUTPUT«Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new ACCEPTS Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{…»
22:23 timotimo hmm
22:23 timotimo so, what were all the things happening last week
22:23 timotimo timtoady was at some event, there was the GPW and OSDC.no?
22:23 spider-mario joined #perl6
22:24 lizmat TimToady was at Collision in Las Vegas
22:24 lizmat as was pmichaud
22:24 eli-se timotimotoady
22:24 lizmat https://gist.github.com/lizmat/c7f53fa206da900c2b42   # status update @?INC related work
22:24 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
22:25 lizmat on that note, I wish all of #perl6 a good night!
22:25 lizmat &
22:25 eli-se goodbye!
22:26 timotimo lizmat: are the : in the "include spec format" thingie new or outdated? i thought we used # in there?
22:26 lizmat yes, they are outdated...
22:27 lizmat fixing
22:27 timotimo thank you :)
22:29 lizmat fixed (I think)
22:30 lizmat afk&
22:34 tony-o m: use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class IO::Handle { augment method read(IO::Handle:D: Int(Cool:D) $bytes) { die $bytes; }; }; $*IN.read(1); die "dye";
22:34 camelia rakudo-moar 536c26: OUTPUT«dye␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/gjyby1osNF:1␤␤»
22:36 TimToady timotimo: other than Collision, I split off Empty from Nil, and fixed warnings to include file and line number
22:36 lizmat joined #perl6
22:37 cognominal joined #perl6
22:38 TimToady other than that, mostly de-LTAing messages
22:44 andreoss joined #perl6
22:46 muraiki joined #perl6
22:48 timotimo right, good :)
22:49 dalek roast: 74bedac | (Justin DeVuyst)++ | S05-grammar/inheritance.t:
22:49 dalek roast: Tests for RT #77350.
22:49 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/74bedacb78
22:49 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=77350
22:54 jdv79 idk if that's really a bug but now there's a todo for it in any case
23:00 TimToady that's weird, my laptop, with 100% charge, nothing making heat, just turned off, bang (well, not with any real sound)
23:00 jdv79 cosmic rays
23:01 TimToady you'd think it'd have a more temperamental crash if that were the case
23:01 andreoss m: my (Any, Any, $c) = 1...3; say $c
23:01 camelia rakudo-moar 536c26: OUTPUT«3␤»
23:01 TimToady unless the cosmic ray in question hit the power switch itself...
23:02 jdv79 the spec says .assuming is on all Callables but Block seems to lack it - is that correct?
23:02 tony-o TimToady: i had a lenovo that would do that because it thought the cpu fan was failing
23:03 TimToady so have I, but then it usually starts carping about FAN FAILURE or so on bootup
23:05 TimToady starting a compile, and the fan revs up okay
23:09 meisl jdv79: I stumbled over this as well, and ended up writing my own currying lib
23:15 raiph joined #perl6
23:20 agentzh_ joined #perl6
23:24 vytas joined #perl6
23:24 * timotimo procrastinates blog post writing by implementing a possibly worthless optimization ..
23:25 ][Sno][ joined #perl6
23:26 tony-o timotimo: i think i found another symptom of that IO::Socket/Async thing where it can't read from the handle
23:27 spookah joined #perl6
23:28 timotimo uh-oh
23:28 tony-o https://github.com/tony-o/perl6-event-emitter-interprocess/blob/master/lib/Event/Emitter/Inter-Process.pm6#L49
23:29 tony-o that will consistently read if the process is the main process but if i use Proc::Async and write to the STDIN of the sub process, it will only read $*IN maybe 1 in 100 times
23:29 tony-o excuse the monkey typing, i was experimenting with stuff but wanted to upload it to show
23:30 airdisa joined #perl6
23:31 timotimo oof, looks like a bit much to look at at once
23:31 timotimo can you explain to me how to read the output of cachegrind?
23:32 tony-o cachegrind ?
23:32 timotimo i'm used to it only showing a single line regarding "I", which i learned was "instruction count"
23:32 timotimo but now i have I refs, I1 misses, LLi misses, D refs, D1 misses, LLd misses, LL refs and LL misses
23:33 tony-o beyond me :)
23:34 timotimo OK
23:34 timotimo well, the numbers went down because of my optimization, so that's probably good
23:38 timotimo I refs went from 6,918,462,233 to 6,917,415,091
23:38 timotimo while I1 misses went from 82,161,276 to 80,275,325
23:39 timotimo which is a much more drastic change, and i suppose misses are much more interesting than refs are
23:42 tony-o i wonder if tux's csv times will go down now
23:48 larion joined #perl6
23:51 cygx left #perl6

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