Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-05-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 telex joined #perl6
00:03 ugexe probably needs a more modern TAP::Harness
00:26 vendethiel joined #perl6
00:39 * rjbs starts to bring perl v5.22.0 in for a landing.
00:39 rjbs That's the last v5 we need to make, right? :)
00:44 labster rjbs: yes :P
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01:00 timotimo i may do the weekly after sleep rather than before
01:02 ssqq How to get one subroutine name? sub get-it-name { say &?ROUTINE.^name }
01:03 ssqq m: get-it-name { say &?ROUTINE.^name }; get-it-name()
01:03 camelia rakudo-moar 00723c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/PU8nGyN6Xh␤Undeclared routines:␤    &?ROUTINE used at line 1␤    get-it-name used at line 1. Did you mean 'gethostname'?␤␤»
01:03 ssqq m: sub get-it-name { say &?ROUTINE.^name }; get-it-name()
01:03 camelia rakudo-moar 00723c: OUTPUT«Sub␤»
01:03 timotimo m: sub get-it-name { say &?ROUTINE.name }; get-it-name()
01:03 camelia rakudo-moar 00723c: OUTPUT«get-it-name␤»
01:04 ssqq tomotimo: thanks
01:05 timotimo %)
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01:37 ssqq Editor `Atom` now support Perl 6 syntax highlight:)
01:38 timotimo has for a while; even the new visual studio has it now
01:39 timotimo because it was put into perl.tmbundle which is in upstream textmate
01:40 timotimo by visual studio i actually mean the new IDE microsoft put out there
01:43 ssqq Visual studio is too large ...
01:45 jdv79 how come rakudo isn't panda-able?
01:45 jdv79 or rakudo star - i guess that's the only regular dist atm
01:45 timotimo Task::Star is panda-able
01:45 jdv79 does that include rakudo?
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01:45 jdv79 i don't see it in there
01:45 timotimo no
01:45 timotimo but how are you supposed to install rakudo with a perl6 program? :S
01:45 jdv79 what i'm getting at is cpan testers for perl6 which would include rakudo just as cpan testers smoke the perl dist
01:45 timotimo have you been working on a perl6 implementation in secret?
01:46 jdv79 no, just occurred to me
01:46 timotimo we have rakudobrew, which is most probably what you'd be using for something like that
01:46 laouji_ joined #perl6
01:46 jdv79 rakudobrew isn't cpan and cpantesters
01:46 raiph joined #perl6
01:47 timotimo well, we do have http://testers.perl6.org/
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02:00 jdv79 is there a regular report of test/pass of rakudo t, spectest, stresstest, etc?
02:01 timotimo yes, coke has that in his perl6-roast-data repository on github
02:03 timotimo it doesn't do stresstest and it doesn't do rakudo's own t, i believe
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03:36 dalek rakudo/nom: aadd29c | hoelzro++ | docs/running.pod:
03:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix source reference for PERL6LIB/RAKUDOLIB
03:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/aadd29c9f6
03:36 dalek rakudo/nom: b30ef2e | hoelzro++ | docs/running.pod:
03:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Add documentation for other env vars used by Rakudo
03:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b30ef2e027
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05:55 adu pong
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06:01 jack_rabbit ping?
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06:07 Ulti timotimo the Atom and VS Code syntax hilighting is fairly bad though :( nowhere near as good as vim. I think the main upside is that it means p6 is detected and you have a language name to hook plugins onto.
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06:17 Ulti ooc is there a way to get Rakudo to output more machine readable error messages?
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06:45 FROGGS o/
06:47 pierrot joined #perl6
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06:49 FROGGS Ulti: what do you meant by output? all exceptions have a type and inherit from Exception... if you want an error code-ish like thing, you might mess with Exception to always print the exception type upfront
06:51 Ulti I was thinking more like output JSON to make it easier to write IDE linters
06:52 Ulti just took a look at core/Exception.pm shouldnt be impossible to just abstract out the .gist in there a bit
06:52 Ulti maybe have a cli option like --error=json and default to --error=human or something?
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06:55 FROGGS hmmm, that sounds like a good idea
06:56 Ulti {line: x, pos: y, message: 'yay', type: 'PairMap::DoesNotExist'}
06:56 FROGGS yeah
06:57 Ulti --error=perl could just be the .perl of the exception which is nice
06:57 Ulti guess you might want file: in there too ;3
06:58 Ven joined #perl6
06:58 * Ulti was looking at adding a rakudo p6 linter to Atom/Sublime
06:58 FROGGS IMO the exception should jsonify to: { "message" : "OHH NOES!", "data" : { "file" : ..., "line" : ..., "pos" : ..., "backtrace" : ... }
06:59 Ulti parsing the human readable error output feels wrong
06:59 FROGGS so you'd just need to set its "code" property, and use it in http://www.jsonrpc.org/specification
06:59 FROGGS err, http://www.jsonrpc.org/specification#error_object
07:00 Ulti standards++
07:00 Ulti ok I might have a play with that tonight since I only have to touch Perl 6 in Rakudo :)
07:01 FROGGS yeah :o)
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07:11 masak morning, #perl6
07:13 lizmat good *, #perl6!
07:13 lizmat only 2 more days until the next release!
07:15 sjn yay!
07:15 sjn and good *, #perl6
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07:18 masak it will be the best Rakudo release so far!
07:19 masak top 'o the morning to ye, lizmat & sjn
07:19 lizmat masak sjn o/
07:20 * lizmat is enjoying the < 100 ms startup time
07:25 dalek rakudo/nom: a552010 | lizmat++ | docs/ChangeLog:
07:25 dalek rakudo/nom: Add some more entries
07:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a552010d4f
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07:46 FROGGS yes, only two more days :o(
07:49 lizmat FROGGS: something I can do to help (apart from committing radical changes? :-)
07:49 lizmat *not
07:50 FROGGS pheww
07:50 FROGGS :P
07:50 Ven "Unhandled exception: ctxlexpad needs an MVMContext" trying to run perl6-debug-m (rakudo g72a187e)
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07:51 FROGGS lizmat: hmmm, I need to get a jvm issue with wrt (de)serialization, dunno if you can help me there
07:52 FROGGS fixed*
07:52 lizmat my JVM foo is limited...
07:52 FROGGS yeah, mine too
07:52 lizmat but if you have some pointers, I can do the grunt work of testing
07:53 FROGGS nah, it is not that easy... I think I can't even explain without understanding better what the issue is
07:53 FROGGS I just know that bootstrapping panda does not work with CURLI and that it explodes in a strange way
07:53 lizmat in any case, your (de)serialization must have improved the past weeks  :-)
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07:54 FROGGS okay, I do know something: the string heap look very weird on the jvm, compared to moar
07:54 FROGGS lizmat: yes, I learned a lot :o)
07:54 nwc10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZingZillas -- Every Zingbop performed is of course "the best Zingbop ever".
07:55 nwc10 however, I doubt that FROGGS has had massive exposure to CBeebies
07:55 nwc10 er, or masak
07:55 nwc10 masak: "so far" - but aren't they always? :-)
07:56 FROGGS nwc10: no contact whatsoever :o)
07:56 Ven can someone confirm debugger::ui::commandline works/doesn't work for them :)?
07:57 FROGGS Ven: I have a busted build, so I cannot help here
07:57 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 24 commits to rakudo/newio by lizmat
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08:05 masak nwc10: yes, that's the joke
08:06 masak nwc10: I watched a Guido talk, where he introduced Python 3.4 as "the best Python release ever"
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08:07 nwc10 I didn't know that. Does Guido use the phrase as a running gag?
08:09 laouji joined #perl6
08:10 masak not sure. I'm pretty sure there was some self-awareness as he said it.
08:11 masak just because it's always true doesn't mean it's not worth stating.
08:11 masak *especially* in the Python 3.4 vs Python 2.7 situation that's currently the fact.
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08:33 average joined #perl6
08:33 average perl6, the language everyone's talking about
08:33 average (along with 999 other languages)
08:33 [ptc] Ven: yes, I can confirm that it doesn't work for me as well
08:34 Ven thanks [ptc]
08:34 average http://modules.perl6.org/ <-- I just looked at this, pretty nice eco-system you guys have going on
08:34 [ptc] I even asked the same question in irc, but noone bit  :-/
08:34 average how are threads doing in Perl6 ? how's async I/O doin' in Perl6 ?
08:34 [ptc] the issue has been around for a while too.
08:34 average coming along ?
08:35 RabidGravy average, the concurrency piece is good enough to write code for right now
08:36 average RabidGravy: is the interface stable ?
08:36 average to be clear, I'm refering to the API, and the parts of the language that deal with concurrency
08:37 RabidGravy yeah, largely I believe, to the extent that is documented and all
08:37 average is it stable from an API perspective ? (that's my perspective as an end-user)
08:37 RabidGravy yes
08:37 average ok, thank you
08:38 RabidGravy what is documented in http://docs.perl6.org/language/concurrency all works right now and is stable
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08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: 29a4089 | lizmat++ | src/core/Deprecations.pm:
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: Allow for :file/:line in DEPRECATED
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom:
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: This should make it easier to issue DEPRECATED messages at compile time
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/29a4089ff6
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: c53b603 | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: DEPRECATE use MONKEY_TYPING
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c53b6031cc
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: a6e5e93 | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: Use new World.current_file convenience method
08:41 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a6e5e93eb9
08:42 lizmat afk for a few hours&
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08:50 masak surely this list of examples breaks the rules set up in the paragraphs before? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_testing#Language-level_unit_testing_support
08:51 masak specifically, Go, Java, Python, Racket, Ruby, Rust don't have *language-level* testing support
08:51 masak (and probably more)
08:51 masak it's as if someone wanted to add their favorite language to that list but forgot to read the rules...
08:52 masak slightly off-topic, sorry. :) just happened to be on that page and saw it.
08:52 masak does anyone know if *any* language on that list merits its place there?
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09:13 masak oh, this is pointed out in the Talk page, too.
09:13 masak apparently D and Cobra have built-in testing support in the language.
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09:26 profan D has it's place at least, unittest and invariant blocks :) (very handy, especially the invariant blocks: http://dlang.org/contracts.html#Invariants)
09:27 masak I would make a distinction between unit tests and things like invariant blocks.
09:27 average hey masak , and everyone who's contributing
09:27 profan I suppose the second ones are closer to assertions
09:27 average to Perl6
09:27 masak average: hey! ÖD
09:27 masak :D
09:27 profan rather than just for testing purposes
09:27 average I don't understand how you guys are pulling this off, but it's great..
09:27 masak profan: well, it's a sliding scale, I guess.
09:28 profan masak: I'd guess perl6 doesn't have any plans for language level testing support?
09:28 masak average: 8 years ago, we figured out how to clone jnthn, and we keep 100 copies of him locked in the basement...
09:28 masak profan: no, I think we're fine with it in the Test.pm module :)
09:29 average what's your secret though ?
09:29 masak profan: but it's already possible to write an `assert` macro.
09:29 profan The language is already quite the beast, so that's probably sane :)
09:29 average you seem to have more tranction and more long-term commitment than many commercial projects that make loads of money
09:29 average how does it work ?
09:29 average *traction
09:29 masak average: passion.
09:29 average nice :)
09:29 masak average: this channel is full of people who really enjoy Perl.
09:30 RabidGravy passion and sheer bloody mindedness
09:30 masak average: and who want to see it have a future through Perl 6.
09:30 average that's very nice :)
09:30 masak but yeah, we're feeling the second system syndrome vibes sometimes :P
09:30 masak guess that's unavoidable
09:31 profan looking forward to the language stabilizing around 1.0, bit hesitant to jump in until then :)
09:32 profan from the little perl6 i've written, i already miss many parts of perl6 whenever i write in other languages, so i wish you guys the best :D
09:33 itz_ jumping in now will help the language stablise quicker! :)
09:37 profan itz_: haha, my passion for p6 isn't quite as strong as yours ;)
09:43 masak itz_ has a point, though.
09:44 masak the only thing that makes the language more stable is use.
09:44 masak (in my experience)
09:44 masak the "6.0" point will mostly be a ceremonial thing.
09:47 RabidGravy and the broadening of the contribution base to people who want to do things that nobody else wants to do is important IMO
09:49 masak yeah.
09:50 masak for the rest of 2015 at least, we can say this: we are looking for people who want to explore, get into trouble, and help fix the trouble :)
09:50 masak after the arbitrary "6.0" point, there will of course be no bugs :P
09:51 RabidGravy ;-O
09:51 * masak pokes fun, but will probably be just as giddy as the rest of the channel once we reach those dates
09:52 DrForr To misappropriate Barbara Woodhouse, there are no bugs, only inappropriate behavior.
09:52 RabidGravy WALKIES!
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09:57 FROGGS for me the "6.0" point is what happens after a lot of testing, fixing and cleaning up (the latter mostly for roast)
10:03 average left #perl6
10:04 masak *nod*
10:04 masak so that's what we focus on.
10:05 FROGGS besides getting the last required bits in a good shape :S
10:05 profan i suppose that part about maturity is true, might poke at it a bit earlier than scheduled then :)
10:08 masak \o/
10:08 masak my part of the work is not a blocker for 6.0, but I'd still like to do a fair bit of the planning in 2015.
10:08 masak maybe even some implementation somewhere in a branch.
10:08 masak Real Actual Macros.
10:09 FROGGS masak: well, would be nice to know the final quasi quoting syntax later this year
10:09 FROGGS so we can at least reserve it or so
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10:23 masak aye.
10:24 masak there's no good answer to that particular one.
10:24 masak at least not yet.
10:24 masak mostly because unquoting/hole syntax is nasty business.
10:25 FROGGS aye
10:25 masak I mean, the most lightweight I can think of would be
10:25 masak my $ast = `say "OH HAI"`;
10:26 masak (that is, instead of 'quasi { ... }', we do '`...`'
10:26 masak )
10:26 masak but that doesn't address how to spell the holes.
10:27 FROGGS that feels like variabel interpolation
10:27 FROGGS variable*
10:27 rindolf joined #perl6
10:27 FROGGS problem is, that this is code, not a string or regex :/
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10:28 masak well, you bring a nice point of view to it
10:28 masak (that I hadn't considered)
10:28 masak quasis are like a Perl 6 slang inside of Perl 6
10:29 FROGGS yeah
10:29 masak the only grammatical difference is that there are holes
10:30 FROGGS a macro can fill holes with lexicals from the outer scope?
10:31 masak oh yes. very yes.
10:31 FROGGS dang :P
10:31 DrForr We've already got twigils, what's one more character among friends? $`^x, $,^x, $@^x
10:31 FROGGS would be easy otherwise
10:31 FROGGS DrForr: that was what I was thinking
10:31 FROGGS which does not help when outer lexicals are involved
10:32 FROGGS it is like you need an interpolation syntax like {{{ }}}, just shorter
10:33 FROGGS though, I dunno if that is the biggest issue here
10:33 DrForr $x = `$a,$,^b,@@^b`; # remembering only now the fact that context now uses the type sigil.
10:33 literal make it lispy? `() :P
10:34 DrForr That was why I mentioned $`x, $,x, $@x inasmuch as they're the quasiquoted versions.
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10:34 masak interpolated ASTs don't have to come from variables.
10:34 masak they're arbitrary expressions.
10:35 masak FROGGS: simplest example of "lexicals from the outer scope" is... macro parameters. :)
10:36 * masak .oO( Plan 9 From the Outer Scope )
10:36 FROGGS masak: yes, but you have the naming of these params under control, so we could have interpolating twigils or so
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10:37 FROGGS though, we usually have circumfixes for that, and it probably wants to be that
10:37 DrForr (defmacro foo(body) `(list 'a ,body)) (foo `(+ 1 55)) # and such. If we had to use {{{ }}} for delineating blocks it'd start to look like we added trigraphs from C.
10:39 DrForr There are some [[ .. ]] that look like doubled characters in Unicode, but I can't find them and imagine people would want alternatives in ASCII anyway to avoid copying from a UTF-8 text file.
10:40 DrForr ⋘$x + $y⋙
10:40 DrForr (guillemots with one extra < > added, essentially)
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10:50 andreoss m: #`⦕ comment ⦖ say 1
10:50 camelia rakudo-moar a6e5e9: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:50 FROGGS not in my font :o(
10:51 andreoss http://xahlee.info/comp/unicode_matching_brackets.html
10:52 masak one thing I dislike about {{{ }}} is that it has very little to do with blocks.
10:53 masak also, quasi blocks are meant to be writable with other delimiters, like <> [] 〖〗
10:54 masak which -- contrariwise -- makes little sense for blocks.
10:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 56e4733 | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
10:54 dalek rakudo/nom: Generalize a World.DEPRECATED method, and use it
10:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/56e47332cd
10:55 masak I once thought that the great idea behind quasi blocks having different delimiters was that they could *nest*, and that at a certain depth you'll be interested in specifying a *certain* quasi block's hole
10:55 andreoss m: sub x {{{ 1 }}}; say x.perl;
10:55 camelia rakudo-moar a6e5e9: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:55 masak much in line with `next` et al. and loops/loop labels
10:56 masak andreoss: oh, that's another thing. {{{ }}} is *allowed* in non-quasi Perl 6. it's just that it doesn't mean much.
10:56 masak I'd much prefer if we found a hole syntax that wasn't already allowed in mainline Perl 6.
10:56 * masak is glad about this discussion
10:56 masak at least I'm getting a clearer picture of my kvetches :)
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11:07 FROGGS damn, we are caching file stats, right?
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11:12 FROGGS for example:
11:12 FROGGS $ perl6 -e 'my $io = "foo".IO; mkdir $io unless $io.d; say $io.d'
11:12 FROGGS Failed to find 'foo' while trying to do '.d'
11:12 FROGGS lizmat: any idea?
11:12 FROGGS lizmat: is there something in IO::Path that can clear $!e?
11:13 lizmat IO::Path doesn't guarantee something exists
11:13 FROGGS that's not the point
11:13 lizmat that's one of the things I tried to fix in newio branch
11:13 FROGGS problem is that it lies
11:13 lizmat until I realised that having symlinks work the way thay work now
11:13 FROGGS it created the directory but .d does not attempt to check it
11:14 lizmat means that a directory entry doesn't mean something exists
11:14 FROGGS hmm?
11:14 FROGGS I don't get it
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11:14 lizmat not important right now
11:14 FROGGS it is for me
11:14 lizmat well, not for your problem at hand
11:14 FROGGS because I cannot bootstrap panda
11:15 FROGGS is there something that can reset $!e in IO::Path?
11:15 lizmat so, let me get straight what you want:
11:15 FROGGS k
11:16 lizmat 1. if there is a dir already by that name, do nothing
11:16 lizmat 2. if there's nothing there, create directory
11:16 FROGGS correct
11:16 lizmat 3. if there is something there, and it's not a directory, fail
11:16 FROGGS no
11:16 FROGGS 3. bail out if there is still no dir
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11:17 lizmat then I would just do a mkdir unconditionally and check afterwards if it iexists and is a dir
11:17 lizmat mkdir $io; die unless $io.e && $io.d
11:17 FROGGS :/
11:17 lizmat checking for existence is a race condition anyway
11:18 lizmat (or non-existence)
11:18 FROGGS okay, so since panda is using Shell::Command my only choice is to convert between strings and IO::Paths it seems
11:18 FROGGS quite smelly
11:19 lizmat many parts of panda are not the most hygienic  :-)
11:19 FROGGS nah, that's not true
11:20 FROGGS panda is quite well designed
11:20 lizmat pushing to @*INC ?
11:20 FROGGS that was your temp hack
11:20 lizmat huh?
11:20 lizmat did I?
11:21 FROGGS ups: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/commit/df8c11ee46e9a3b100510a5dc7ce5a7db78a57eb
11:21 FROGGS I thought these @*INC pushed were not there at all
11:22 FROGGS pushes*
11:22 lizmat :-)
11:22 lizmat *phew*  :-)
11:22 FROGGS hmmm :o(
11:23 FROGGS so these @*INC pushes are about the case when somebody installs to DESTDIR (and env var)
11:23 FROGGS an*
11:24 lizmat I have no idea...  and when I asked tadzik, he didn't know either
11:24 FROGGS the comment talks about the destdir not being in @*INC, and only DESTDIR can trigger that
11:25 FROGGS bootstrap.pl sets up @*INC indirectly via PERL6LIB
11:27 lizmat yeah, not sure whether that is correct either...
11:28 FROGGS "==> Successfully installed panda" phew
11:28 lizmat because @*INC will still include the "normal" entries as well
11:38 masak FROGGS++ # panda care and feeding
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11:50 Ven joined #perl6
11:51 Ven masak: what counts as language-level testing support?
11:51 Ven is java's "assert" considered enough for that list? haha. (D has "unittest" blocks)
11:52 masak Ven: my criterion when reading that list was "shouldn't have to import something"
11:52 Ven well, then that's true for, say, rust.
11:52 masak oh, ok.
11:52 masak Java's assert is close, I guess. but it doesn't behave like a unit testing construct. after an `ok` fails in Test.pm, more tests keep running after that.
11:53 Ven it has #[test] attribute
11:53 masak cute.
11:53 Ven Yeah, java's `assert` is pretty bad :-). Scala doesn't have anything, why is it in that list?
11:54 Ven Ruby has something *included*, but not quite special syntax
11:56 Ven > functional languages (Lisp, scheme, haskell) can be good for testing when their functions are side effect free -its very easy to test functions when their whole output is visible and testable.
11:56 * Ven sighs
11:57 masak call that "TDD overconfidence"
11:57 masak well.
11:57 masak it *is* made easier by that, I guess.
11:57 Ven masak: it seems that list includes every language that includes a *module* for unit testing in its main distribution
11:57 Ven then, is that true of c# which has a testing package *under visualstudio*?
11:57 masak yeah. which breaks the rules stated above the list.
11:58 FROGGS[mobile] joined #perl6
11:59 Ven (I mean, literally under the "visualstudio" namespace)
11:59 FROGGS lizmat: panda just wants to add entries to upfront, and an ENV var is quite handy when shelling out
12:00 vendethiel joined #perl6
12:01 * masak gave in and fixed the list
12:05 berekuk joined #perl6
12:08 dalek rakudo/nom: 7803bf0 | lizmat++ | src/core/Deprecations.pm:
12:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Generalize deprecation message re compile time use
12:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7803bf0b68
12:08 dalek rakudo/nom: 5278e45 | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
12:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Make lack of unit a 'real' deprecation message
12:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5278e45fb8
12:08 dalek rakudo/nom: 236b089 | lizmat++ | docs/ChangeLog:
12:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Add some more ChangeLog entries
12:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/236b08994a
12:10 dolmen joined #perl6
12:11 mazeTemporal joined #perl6
12:13 Ven joined #perl6
12:13 Ven masak++
12:14 * Ven thinks we're in a really good shape with 1) PRE/POST 2) subsets/where
12:14 Ven (probably my favorite features of perl6... and sixcheck was a pleasure to write)
12:15 yqt joined #perl6
12:15 dalek roast: f6e598f | lizmat++ | S02-types/ (2 files):
12:15 dalek roast: Follow latest deprecation wording changes
12:15 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f6e598f306
12:16 * Ven looks at trigils in fear (and awe)
12:16 mazeTemporal Coke 2015-5-18 23:55 : Yes, with just perl6 but not prove, the tests worked as expected.  The error is thrown when prove tries to execute: perl -x -S prove -e perl6 hellotest
12:17 Ven http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-05-19#i_10625744 masak, people used to think lisp's nested macros were behavior wrong. then someone came and (ab)used it, and everyone rejoiced
12:17 * Ven thinks he's gotten this "history bit" from Let over lambda or On lisp
12:19 mazeTemporal Does anyone know if there is a simple way to panda install a module but skip the testing?
12:20 masak Ven: well, TimToady has explained to me that quasis don't nest that way.
12:20 Ven masak: oh, seems I missed that in the backlog
12:20 masak Ven: ...so I really don't understand why quasis should have configurable delimiters.
12:21 masak I think I meant to arrive at that point, but I got derailed by the subsequent discussion :)
12:21 masak mazeTemporal: `panda install <module>` ?
12:21 masak oh wait
12:22 masak mazeTemporal: `panda --notests install <module>` ?
12:22 xfix joined #perl6
12:22 mazeTemporal masak: ah, I should have checked for flags.  Excellent
12:28 tinyblak joined #perl6
12:29 masak mazeTemporal: I found out by reading https://github.com/tadzik/panda/blob/master/bin/panda#L18
12:31 tinyblak_ joined #perl6
12:32 tinyblak joined #perl6
12:33 mazeTemporal masak: was there a way for you to know to pick bin/panda rather than any of the other items in bin/ ?
12:34 masak because `panda` is the command I (and everyone) run all day ;)
12:34 dalek rakudo/nom: 8ab32b8 | lizmat++ | src/ (2 files):
12:34 dalek rakudo/nom: Make 'winner' a compile time deprecation
12:34 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8ab32b8afe
12:38 domidumont joined #perl6
12:50 dalek rakudo/nom: 4924f04 | lizmat++ | src/core/VM.pm:
12:50 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove expired deprecations for 2015.05 release
12:50 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4924f04662
12:51 dalek roast: db4b007 | lizmat++ | S02-types/deprecations.t:
12:51 dalek roast: Follow expired deprecation removal
12:51 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/db4b0079b9
12:56 dalek specs/newio: 7a0cb02 | lizmat++ | S32-setting-library/Numeric.pod:
12:56 dalek specs/newio: Concur with implementation of Complex.roots
12:56 dalek specs/newio: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/7a0cb02b53
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13:22 dalek rakudo/curly: 7b6caee | FROGGS++ | src/core/Distribution.pm:
13:22 dalek rakudo/curly: restructure Distribution; do work once
13:22 dalek rakudo/curly: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7b6caee64a
13:22 dalek rakudo/curly: 74a03d0 | FROGGS++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Locally.pm:
13:22 dalek rakudo/curly: do no create CURL directories "automagically"
13:22 dalek joined #perl6
13:23 FROGGS what dalek did not show was this: " use CURLI on moar but not on jvm " - https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2d5b07c
13:24 FROGGS with this I'm considering merging rakudo/curly and panda/curly, to get feedback if there is any to get
13:29 masak I just realized that, as much as I like Moose and Perl 5, mentally I have these pegged as "more cumbersome/boilerplate-y ways to do Perl 6"
13:29 masak if that makes sense
13:29 masak probably most p5 people don't think of it this way :>
13:30 FROGGS I don't think it is boilerplately, I think it is only half awesome because they don't have jnthn\W6model
13:31 masak Perl 5 OO without Moose is definitely boilerplate-y.
13:31 PerlJam masak: only those that are familiar with Perl 6  :)
13:31 FROGGS masak: I just know it from code snippets... so don't listen to me :o)
13:31 skids joined #perl6
13:32 FROGGS masak: you've not yet seen Carrot :D
13:32 [Coke] timotimo: it runs everything in t/spectest.data, so it's effectively stresstest, yes. doesn't do t/
13:33 FROGGS masak: you need to look at that and tell me opinion: skim that: http://www.carrot-programming.org/ and scroll down this page: http://www.carrot-programming.org/perl/tutorial.html
13:34 FROGGS [Coke]: star does t though, right?
13:37 masak FROGGS: invoking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
13:37 masak FROGGS: I literally don't know whether to twitch the corners of my mouth into a smile, or to be very very disturbed by what I just read
13:37 [Coke] FROGGS: supposed to, but:
13:37 [Coke] https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/blob/master/log/jvm-test-rakudo.log
13:37 masak which I guess means that the artist in question did a good job.
13:38 [Coke] apparently it's been failing since Mar 30th
13:38 FROGGS masak: the creator of carrot gave a talk at the german perl workshow this month...
13:38 FROGGS masak: the audience was more than puzzled so to say
13:38 FROGGS [Coke]: ewww
13:39 masak FROGGS: someone gave a talk about this? that's amazing.
13:40 moritz very good trolling
13:40 FROGGS masak: yes yes... and he could not explain why somebody should use it, or what it is for, or what it gives you... even after three question of the audience
13:41 masak FROGGS: but the SYNOPSIS explains it so clearly already!
13:41 masak I don't understand the source of your confusion
13:41 masak here, let me quote
13:41 masak "higher quality code through systematic expressiveness"
13:41 PerlJam FROGGS: it gives you a carrot!
13:41 masak what part of this don't you understand?
13:42 PerlJam or ...  it doesn't give you a stick!
13:42 masak and if you understand it, what part would you *not* want? :P
13:42 moritz the consistent use of "Perl 5" instead of just "Perl" suggests that the author might be involved with Perl 6
13:42 moritz "normal" Perl 5 people just write "Perl" when they mean Perl 5
13:42 FROGGS masak: the part where I write a huge block of code and don't know what *it* does with it :o)
13:42 FROGGS s/code/comments/
13:43 FROGGS moritz: no, he's a Perl outsider I think
13:43 FROGGS like he asked: Is the magic constant in return(PERL_FILE_LOADED); still needed?
13:44 masak he's a good Samaritan
13:44 masak he saw the Perl 5 people suffering, and he swooped in to give them systematic expressiveness
13:45 masak kind of like someone decided to make "Perl 5 the good parts"
13:45 masak but without knowing much about Perl 6
13:45 masak Perl 5*
13:45 masak or good parts
13:45 andreoss` joined #perl6
13:46 moritz I liked the PDF, with the first example being a class representing monadic names
13:51 masak he's mis-using the name "monad" for something that means "not quite a singleton".
13:52 masak looks like he's built a Perl 5 preprocessor. for some reason I don't understand.
13:52 dalek perl6-examples: 66ad4a2 | andreoss++ | / (2 files):
13:52 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] solution for problem 80
13:52 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/66ad4a2310
13:54 FROGGS I think his goal is to have enough boilerplate in the source as some sort of documentation to state very very clearly what it does
13:54 FROGGS though, it is not quite readable for me
13:55 masak I think I might be able to have an interesting conversation with him over beer or so.
13:55 masak seeing the examples, I don't see what this would give me over, say, Moose.
13:55 masak I already write nice and descriptive variable names, and I don't need a framework for that.
13:56 dalek rakudo/nom: f4de5f3 | lizmat++ | src/core/ (2 files):
13:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Eat our own unicode operator dogfood
13:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f4de5f3645
13:56 * moritz thinks it's very artful trolling
13:56 FROGGS sad that we are not writing VB, we could have varying names instead :P
13:57 masak moritz: except it's been extracted from some production system he has called Mica.
13:57 masak FROGGS: you mean case-insensitive names?
13:57 masak *surely* there must be an Acme:: CPAN module for that?
13:57 masak otherwise we owe it to ourselves to produce a slang for it :P
13:57 FROGGS masak: aye
13:57 masak FROGGS: you know what to do... :>
13:58 FROGGS nooooo! /o\
13:58 masak :)
13:58 FROGGS though, should be fairly easy to do btw :o)
13:59 FROGGS damn
13:59 FROGGS Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
13:59 FROGGS gc_mark (tc=0x6036f0, st=<optimized out>, data=<optimized out>, worklist=0x3984e30) at src/6model/reprs/SCRef.c:75
13:59 FROGGS curly segfaults when used with EVALs
13:59 FROGGS >.<
14:00 * masak .oO( the three stoogefaults )
14:04 * FROGGS cries
14:05 * lizmat resists slapping FROGGS repeatedly on the head
14:06 andreoss` m: my @e := (2; gather take 1,$_,1 for 2,4 ... *); say @e[^20];
14:06 anaeem1 joined #perl6
14:08 moritz masak: ... or so he claims
14:08 masak troo
14:09 moritz masak: "Not paranoid enough!"
14:09 newbie joined #perl6
14:09 FROGGS I need some distance between and curly now
14:10 FROGGS me*
14:11 masak moritz: ;)
14:11 FROGGS :P
14:11 FROGGS lizmat: how kind of you :o)
14:12 FROGGS m: say '(timeout)'
14:14 FROGGS no timeout?
14:17 DrForr 'FROGGS' ~ "\n" xx 10e100 ~ 'DrForr'
14:18 DrForr s/DrForr/{/ :)
14:20 lizmat commute to NRPM meeting&
14:20 FROGGS *g*
14:23 Erendis42d joined #perl6
14:23 Erendis42d apa<3
14:23 masak Swedish for "monkey"
14:23 Erendis42d monkey<3
14:23 masak :)
14:24 masak Erendis42d: are you in .hu ?
14:24 Erendis42d oops
14:24 * Erendis42d zipp
14:24 Erendis42d x)
14:24 masak ok, got it :)
14:26 camelia rakudo-moar 4924f0: OUTPUT«2 1 2 1 1 4 1 1 6 1 1 8 1 1 10 1 1 12 1 1 14 1 1 16 1 1 18 1 1 20 1 1 22 1 1 24 1 1 26 1 1 28 1 1 30 1 1 32 1 1 34 1 1 36 1 1 38 1 1 40 1 1 42 1 1 44 1 1 46 1 1 48 1 1 50 1 1 52 1 1 54 1 1 56 1 1 58 1 1 60 1 1 62 1 1 64 1 1 66 1 1 68 1 1 70 1 1 72 1 1 74 1…»
14:26 camelia rakudo-moar 4924f0: OUTPUT«(timeout)␤»
14:27 masak andreoss`: interesting. what is that?
14:31 masak oh, it's the continued fraction for e.
14:31 masak http://oeis.org/A003417
14:31 masak oeis++
14:31 andreoss` it is.
14:32 masak now that Java 8 interfaces can have default method implementations, Java interfaces feel a lot more like Perl 6 roles.
14:32 andreoss` m: my @e := gather { take 2;  take (1; $_; 1) for 2,4 ... * }; say @e[^10];
14:32 camelia rakudo-moar f4de5f: OUTPUT«2 1 2 1 1 4 1 1 6 1␤»
14:33 dalek rakudo-star-daily: e816fe3 | coke++ | bin/git.p5:
14:33 dalek rakudo-star-daily: Don't need to pull parrot at this time
14:33 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo-star-daily/commit/e816fe33c5
14:33 andreoss` is there a nice way to put something before gather without forcing to eager context?
14:34 andreoss` m: my @e := 2, gather take (1; $_; 1) for 2,4 ... * ; say @e[^10]; #eager
14:34 camelia rakudo-moar f4de5f: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
14:36 andreoss` left #perl6
14:36 andreoss joined #perl6
14:38 andreoss *forcing it to
14:38 RabidGravy joined #perl6
14:40 [Coke] rakudo-star-daily failure seems to begin with this:
14:40 [Coke] perl6 tools/build/panda-state.p6 >>MANIFEST
14:40 [Coke] Failed to connect: host is unreachable
14:41 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
14:42 [Coke] ... because it's hardcoded to go to http://feather.perl6.nl:3000/projects.json
14:43 [Coke] When did feather die?
14:44 FROGGS end of march
14:44 FROGGS [Coke]: use http://ecosystem-api.p6c.org/projects.json
14:44 skids glasses to glasses, rust to rust
14:46 FROGGS andreoss: wait for the GLR I'd say
14:46 FROGGS m: my @e := 2, lazy gather take (1; $_; 1) for 2,4 ... * ; say @e[^10];
14:46 camelia rakudo-moar f4de5f: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
14:47 lolisa joined #perl6
14:50 anaeem1 joined #perl6
14:56 dalek star: f704eda | coke++ | tools/build/panda-state.p6:
14:56 dalek star: Update projects list, feather is no more.
14:56 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/f704edacef
14:57 [Coke] FROGGS++ # interestingly, we updated the changelog in star to mention it, but not the feather links themselves.
14:58 domidumont joined #perl6
14:59 dalek perl6-examples: 4430880 | andreoss++ | / (3 files):
14:59 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] solution for problem 65
14:59 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/44308808d1
15:00 [Coke] now getting: perl6 tools/build/panda-state.p6 >>MANIFEST
15:00 [Coke] No such method 'ast' for invocant of type 'Any'
15:00 [Coke] will dig more after dayjob
15:17 dolmen joined #perl6
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15:26 dalek perl6-examples: 009e71b | andreoss++ | / (4 files):
15:26 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] solution for problem 66
15:26 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/009e71b7e8
15:27 Ven if I use a proto in a grammar, will the modifiers be applied... "naturally"? What I'm thinking of: if I have several variants, but they're not ordered in any way, can I use a "proto regex" (with all actual regexes be "token"s) and will it backtrack upon failing to match the first one?
15:30 Ven oh, obviously, <.ws> matches newlines as well...
15:31 skids token foo:<sym> is specced to be equivalent to an alternation I believe.
15:32 Ven really? I changed the order and some of my stuff suddenly matches
15:33 skids *foo:sym<bar>
15:33 Ven wow, ws handling is core is kind of crazy...
15:33 Ven skids: ah, thanks
15:34 Ven s05 doesn't talk about sym
15:35 Ven (it *mentions* it without explaining if it means anything special)
15:35 skids The language says: "All of them will be matched in parallel when you try to match" based on longest token, with ties causing an actual dispatch using any formal parameters.
15:36 skids I think the :sym is just the name of the $sym inside the rule if you need to self-reference it.
15:36 skids And the magic is in the colon :-)
15:37 skids *<sym> not $sym apparently.  It autmakes a subrule name.
15:37 * Ven goes and writes "token sp { ' '* }"
15:39 Ven skids: then I might have a LTM issue :)
15:42 TimToady joined #perl6
15:50 hoelzro is there a way to add custom type adverbs?
15:50 hoelzro instead of just Type:U and Type:D?
15:51 skids well, constraints.
15:52 [Coke] m:         my $s = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<ecosystem-api.p6c.org>, :port(80));
15:52 [Coke] $s.send("GET /projects.json HTTP/1.0\n\n");
15:52 [Coke] my ($buf, $g) = '';
15:52 [Coke] $buf ~= $g while $g = $s.get;
15:52 camelia rakudo-moar f4de5f: OUTPUT«IO::Socket::INET is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:1␤  in method new at src/RESTRICTED.setting:32␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/v3WxcpXK4c:1␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/v3WxcpXK4c:1␤␤»
15:52 [Coke] whoops.
15:53 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/coke/822e10edcc7a89526294 - this gets a 404 from design.perl6.org
15:53 [Coke] Guessing we need a host: line here as well.
15:54 [Coke] that doesn't seem to help.
15:55 Ven ...is it expected that "dba" makes a rule fail?
15:56 TimToady I would not expect it
15:56 [Coke] er, 400, not 404.
15:57 [Coke] so, that gist is currently blocking anyone building a Star.
15:58 tadzik oh hai
15:58 [Coke] ah, got it.
15:59 lizmat joined #perl6
16:01 dalek star: 6ed4ca0 | coke++ | tools/build/panda-state.p6:
16:01 dalek star: Unify get request for proxy/non-proxy
16:01 dalek star:
16:01 dalek star: ecosystem host confused by the http/1.0 attempt there
16:01 dalek star: (used to work fine against feather)
16:01 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/6ed4ca07b2
16:02 xfix joined #perl6
16:02 xfix joined #perl6
16:02 * japhb wierds out at servers failing to understand HTTP/1.0
16:04 [Coke] japhb: I have no idea what about that request was wonky.
16:05 [Coke] but the 1.1 version worked fine, so why even have the 1.0 attempt.
16:07 [Coke] that fixed it. next rakudo-star-daily run should be fine again.
16:09 vendethiel joined #perl6
16:09 [Coke] (the NEXT one, not the one I just pushed.)
16:12 andreoss m: say True ¿¿ 1 ¡¡ 2;
16:12 camelia rakudo-moar f4de5f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/aTsqg1zZXt␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/aTsqg1zZXt:1␤------> 3say True7⏏5 ¿¿ 1 ¡¡ 2;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤   …»
16:15 eli-se joined #perl6
16:16 eli-se hi
16:16 FROGGS[mobile] how wrong is it to merge a branch that one is confident enough when jnthn wanted to review it first?
16:17 TimToady std: say True ¿¿ 1 ¡¡ 2;
16:17 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Confused at /tmp/saIuFP9Xbk line 1:␤------> 3say True 7⏏5¿¿ 1 ¡¡ 2;␤    expecting any of:␤   feed_separator␤ infix or meta-infix␤    infixed function␤       statement modifier loop␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 136m␤»
16:17 TimToady I coulda sworn I fixed rakudo to say "Confused" there rather than TTIAR, which is misleading
16:18 hoelzro if someone wanted to modify smoke.perl6.org to include dists whose tests passed but raised warnings, what would be the best way to go about that? I saw last night that smoke.perl6.org uses emmentaler (sp?), which uses panda
16:20 berekuk joined #perl6
16:26 FROGGS[mobile] I'd record the output of 'panda smoke' if it is meant for single use
16:27 anaeem1_ joined #perl6
16:28 dalek roast: a87fde4 | lizmat++ | / (95 files):
16:28 dalek roast: s/is_deeply/is-deeply/g
16:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a87fde4e98
16:38 isBEKaml joined #perl6
16:40 hoelzro FROGGS[mobile]: I didn't know about panda smoke, thanks!
16:40 mohij joined #perl6
16:41 hoelzro I think I would just need to capture $*ERR and see there's anything in there
16:42 FROGGS[mobile] in a subprocess?
16:43 hoelzro yeah
16:43 FROGGS[mobile] O.o
16:44 hoelzro FROGGS[mobile]: not a good idea?
16:45 FROGGS[mobile] tbh, I hack the deprecation printer in rakudo...
16:45 FROGGS[mobile] I'd*
16:46 lolisa joined #perl6
16:48 [Coke] if jnthn has requested to review something, I'd leave it until then.
16:49 berekuk joined #perl6
16:49 mr-foobar joined #perl6
16:50 [Coke] looks like dalek missed a push to rakudo-star-daily.
16:51 lizmat FROGGS[mobile] hoelzro : RAKUDO_NO_DEPRECATIONS=1 will also kill any deprecation messages
16:51 [Sno] joined #perl6
16:51 andreoss how do i put math formulas in pod?
16:53 japhb lizmat: Does that also apply to the "compile time deprecations" you added recently?
16:53 lizmat yes
16:53 lizmat except for the nqp one
16:53 lizmat lemme check
16:53 japhb cool beans.  lizmat++
16:53 japhb Which is the nqp one?
16:53 lizmat m: nqp::say("hello")
16:53 camelia rakudo-moar f4de5f: OUTPUT«The use of nqp::operations has been deprecated for non-CORE code.  Please␤change your code to not use these non-portable functions.  If you really want␤to keep using nqp::operations in your Perl6 code, you must add a:␤␤  use nqp;␤␤to the outer …»
16:53 lizmat m: use nqp; nqp::say("hello")
16:53 camelia rakudo-moar f4de5f: OUTPUT«hello␤»
16:54 japhb Oh, gotcha
16:54 domidumont joined #perl6
16:55 japhb I'm just trying to get my local build-and-install-modules script to stop spitting a thousand warnings about "unit" during the install modules phase, just so I can concentrate on the actual *failures*.
16:57 lichtkind joined #perl6
16:57 lizmat yeah, missing unit warning should be stoppable with RAKUDO_NO_DEPRECATIONS=1 now as well
16:57 lizmat working on the nqp one
16:58 vendethiel joined #perl6
17:18 hoelzro lizmat: I'd like to detect deprecation warnings rather than prevent them
17:18 hoelzro FROGGS[mobile]: I would also like to detect nqp:: usage, and iirc, that goes through a different mechanism that deprecations
17:19 lizmat that's fine too...  just don't do RAKUDO_NO_DEPRECATIONS=1 then
17:19 hoelzro noted =)
17:19 ShimmerFairy joined #perl6
17:19 lizmat yes, but it will be switch-offable in the same way soon
17:19 Hor|zon joined #perl6
17:21 hoelzro lizmat, FROGGS[mobile]: do either of you think there are other warnings I should try to detect?
17:21 lizmat hoelzro: also, calling Deprecation.report in e.g. an END block, will give you all deprecations (and clean them out)
17:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 27e531b | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
17:24 dalek rakudo/nom: nqp:: message stoppable by RAKUDO_NO_DEPRECATIONS
17:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/27e531b2d1
17:25 _mg_ joined #perl6
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17:39 dalek json: 532723d | paultcochrane++ | lib/JSON/Tiny (3 files):
17:39 dalek json: Add unit declarator to module, class and grammar declarations
17:39 dalek json:
17:39 dalek json: As of Rakudo 2015.05, the `unit` declarator is required before using
17:39 dalek json: `module`, `class` or `grammar` declarations (unless it uses a block).  Code
17:39 dalek json: still using the old blockless semicolon form will throw a warning. This
17:39 dalek json: commit stops the warning from appearing in the new Rakudo.
17:39 dalek json: review: https://github.com/moritz/json/commit/532723d613
17:39 dalek json: 42df6e0 | moritz++ | lib/JSON/Tiny (3 files):
17:39 dalek json: Merge pull request #15 from paultcochrane/pr/add-unit-declarator
17:39 dalek json:
17:39 dalek json: Add unit declarator to module, class and grammar declarations
17:39 dalek json: review: https://github.com/moritz/json/commit/42df6e029d
17:45 FROGGS joined #perl6
17:45 FROGGS o/
17:45 lizmat FROGGS o/
17:47 FROGGS hoelzro: every warning is interesting
17:47 hoelzro FROGGS: works for me
17:56 Erendis42d
17:56 dalek nqp: 2844001 | FROGGS++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
17:56 dalek nqp: map new scdisclaim op on moar
17:56 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2844001093
17:56 dalek nqp: e7b8aef | FROGGS++ | src/vm/jvm/ (3 files):
17:56 dalek nqp: first stab at implementing scdisclaim for jvm
17:56 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e7b8aef15f
17:56 dalek nqp: 3135dfa | FROGGS++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
17:56 dalek nqp: Check owning object wasn't disclaimed.
17:56 dalek nqp:
17:56 dalek nqp: Port of https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/1a36596
17:56 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3135dfa6bb
17:56 dalek nqp: 3776246 | FROGGS++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
17:56 dalek nqp: bump moar rev for scdisclaim op
17:56 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3776246d77
17:56 Erendis42d
17:56 Erendis42d left #perl6
17:56 vendethiel o/
17:57 FROGGS hi ven
18:07 vendethiel http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-05-19#i_10627114 TimToady: I'll try to get a reproducible test case
18:08 vendethiel I ended up using jnthn++'s Grammar::Debugger, as Debugger::UI::CommandLine was busted
18:08 vendethiel .oO( duplication is GREAT )
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18:11 hoelzro dammit, I was using JSON::Tiny as a guinea pig for warnings =/
18:14 raiph joined #perl6
18:15 timotimo oh hey everybody
18:15 FROGGS hi timotimo
18:16 hoelzro o/ timotimo
18:19 anaeem1 joined #perl6
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18:56 dalek rakudo/nom: f17b413 | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
18:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't load -M specs for each EVAL
18:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f17b4138be
19:02 lolisa joined #perl6
19:05 itz_ is there no Czech or Polish Workshop this year?
19:06 anaeem1 joined #perl6
19:07 lizmat I've heard rumours about a Polish PW to be there one way or another
19:08 lizmat haven't heard anything about a 2nd Czech PW just yet
19:08 anaeem___ joined #perl6
19:09 itz_ k
19:13 * colomon thinks he has a $work trip lined up that will allow him to attend the Swiss Perl Workshop
19:13 FROGGS colomon: \o/
19:13 colomon nothing official yet
19:13 dalek perl6-examples: 7c839b9 | paultcochrane++ | categories/cookbook/09directories/09-10-filename-splitting.pl:
19:13 dalek perl6-examples: [cookbook] remove extra semicolon
19:13 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/7c839b9ed8
19:13 dalek perl6-examples: f496d51 | paultcochrane++ | / (4 files):
19:13 dalek perl6-examples: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/perl6-examples
19:13 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/f496d5173c
19:13 dalek perl6-examples: 310934e | paultcochrane++ | t/categories/euler.t:
19:13 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] update test plan after added tests
19:13 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/310934ea0b
19:14 timotimo i wonder if i should postpone the weekly until the release?
19:14 FROGGS aww
19:17 japhb timotimo: I know I would be sad, but I understand if you're feeling overloaded
19:18 timotimo "overloaded" sounds a bit too extreme :)
19:20 lizmat timotimo: please don't hesitate to call for backup  :-)
19:20 timotimo hm, i wonder
19:28 [Coke] is dwarring here?
19:28 [Coke] (under an alias?)
19:29 timotimo he used to be "dwarring"
19:29 [Coke] roast tip: don't need to put a separate fudge for .moar and .jvm before the same test. just "rakudo" is fine in that case, it'll todo or skip both backends if you don't specify
19:30 timotimo correct
19:30 timotimo perhaps you want a different message, though?
19:31 [Coke] sure, but in the commit of his I saw, it was the same.
19:32 timotimo ah
19:33 dalek roast: 08b5de5 | lizmat++ | / (156 files):
19:33 dalek roast: s/throws_like/throws-like/g
19:33 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/08b5de53c2
19:38 andreoss joined #perl6
19:40 timotimo .tell jnthn do we want to destroy/clean-up the sc reader when we do scdisclaim? since we demand every object in the sc anyway
19:40 yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: 67245d3 | FROGGS++ | / (4 files):
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: add support for unions in NativeCall using CUnion repr
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/67245d37d4
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: bf3a3be | FROGGS++ | t/04-nativecall/13-union. (2 files):
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: add tests for C union support for NativeCall
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bf3a3be043
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: 9186fdf | FROGGS++ | t/04-nativecall/13-union. (2 files):
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: test inlined CStructs in CUnions
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9186fdf821
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: 0d075f3 | FROGGS++ | t/04-nativecall/13-union. (2 files):
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: fix bogus test (wrong alignment)
19:40 dalek rakudo/cunion: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0d075f315d
19:40 vendethiel FROGGS++!
19:41 FROGGS just a rebase + a new commit :o)
19:41 FROGGS (because I want to merge in a bit)
19:41 TimToady have you checked that out with the release manager :)
19:41 vendethiel ah, I thought you merged it all. misread!
19:41 FROGGS TimToady: ;o)
19:42 FROGGS one last test and then it goes in
19:42 timotimo very cool
19:43 FROGGS would be nice if an apple device owner could test it afterwards
19:43 timotimo i'm not sure any of these people actually own their device
19:43 timotimo :P
19:43 FROGGS (I did get a confirmation of the branch on osx two days or so ago)
19:43 FROGGS hehe
19:43 FROGGS timotimo: maybe that is why it is often called 'user'
19:43 FROGGS ?
19:43 timotimo hehe
19:44 colomon FROGGS: you want confirmation that cunion branch works on OS X?
19:44 FROGGS colomon: that'd by cool, yes
19:44 FROGGS colomon: MoarVM/cunion, nqp/master, rakudo/cunion
19:44 colomon just did rakudobrew build moar cunion, should that work or no?
19:45 timotimo i don't think that gives you moarvm/cunion as well as rakudo/cunion
19:45 dalek rakudo/nom: 97b4db0 | lizmat++ | t/0 (5 files):
19:45 dalek rakudo/nom: Some more kebabcasing test functions
19:45 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:45 dalek rakudo/nom: Except is_approx, because it needs special attention?
19:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/97b4db0030
19:46 FROGGS colomon: yeah, that wont pick up the right moarvm
19:46 colomon bother
19:46 brrt joined #perl6
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19:46 FROGGS colomon: np, you can test nom/master in a sec :o)
19:46 ollinator joined #perl6
19:46 colomon FROGGS: oh, sure, that’s easy enough.  ;)
19:47 timotimo hehehe
19:47 TimToady we hope...
19:47 * colomon is trying “rakudobrew triple cunion master cunion" in the meantime
19:47 timotimo you'll hardly break anything by merging that; it should only touch new code, right?
19:47 colomon and “triple” fails early on.
19:47 timotimo huh
19:47 dalek nqp: a56e469 | FROGGS++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
19:47 dalek nqp: bump moar for CUnion repr
19:47 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a56e46928f
19:47 colomon I think it’s a triple bug, not cunion
19:48 FROGGS timotimo: the Wurst that could happen is that make test fails
19:48 FROGGS ohh wait...
19:48 FROGGS let's not merge the rakudo branch until I've implemented it on JVM O.O
19:48 timotimo mhm
19:49 FROGGS damn
19:49 FROGGS I tend to forget that
19:49 lizmat FROGGS: well, at least you won't make the release manager angry  ;-)
19:49 colomon the good news is that “rakudobrew build moar cunion” ought to get the correct nqp/moar now, right?
19:49 lizmat at least, I hope
19:50 FROGGS colomon: no, domt think so either
19:50 FROGGS dont*
19:50 colomon well bother
19:51 FROGGS colomon: it is okay, it will get tested at some point
19:51 ollinator does anybody know how far perl6 is? can one use it for production scripts - or should you use perl5 instead?
19:51 brrt ehm
19:52 lizmat ollinator: yes
19:52 brrt we're releasing this christmas, so i'd guess you can use it already
19:52 brrt but it depends really on what you mean by production
19:52 lizmat brrt++ for a more friendly answer
19:52 masak the answer depends on the person, and that person's uses/requirements
19:53 brrt amd what you consider 'production ready'
19:53 masak that's a less "fun" answer than just yes/no. but it's more accurate
19:54 ollinator okay, well i'm using perl5 to automate data transmission, e.g. sftp, and logging everything to a mysql db, that works perfectly. But I'd like to upgrade to perl6, don't know how compatible it is to version 5
19:54 FROGGS using it for on/off scripts, data mangling tasks etc: ohh yes! - using it for daemons: well, maybe not yet
19:54 ollinator Well okay, I have to read around about it, thanks anyway
19:55 timotimo FROGGS: i think the term you're looking for is "one-off" rather than "on/off"
19:55 masak ollinator: sounds like Perl 6 might be ready for you :)
19:55 FROGGS ahh, perhaps
19:56 brrt ollinator: i think perl6 can do that and more; but i would also point out that perl6 is not a dandified perl5
19:56 ollinator okay, but it's a daemon that i wrote, using net::sftp::foreign, dbi as modules, that kind of stuff
19:56 literal ollinator: it would not be an upgrade in the traditional sense, any more than "upgrading" from Javascript to Lua. Perl 5 and 6 are very separate languages, with a common root
19:57 ollinator okay, i see
19:57 ollinator thanks a lot for this introduction
19:57 brrt i'm not very familiar with net::sftp::foreign, is that using an external program?
19:57 literal especially performance-wise, at this stage. Perl 6 is not quite there yet
19:57 masak well, Perl 6 is very much an "upgrade" (just a non-backwards-compatible one) on Perl 5 from 2000. but, crucially, so is Perl 5 of today -- except it's backwards-compatible.
19:57 ollinator yes it is using the native openssh client that ships with the linux distro
19:58 dalek roast: d36a7d8 | usev6++ | S04-phasers/pre-post.t:
19:58 dalek roast: Make some tests more specific
19:58 dalek roast: ( s/lives_ok/is/ and s/dies_ok/throws-like/ )
19:58 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d36a7d88b4
19:58 FROGGS bartolin++
19:58 brrt ollinator: then I supsect we can get there already somewhat using Proc::Async
19:59 brrt http://doc.perl6.org/type/Proc::Async is the default class for communicating with subprocesses
20:00 timotimo could still be nice to have someone build a port of that module
20:01 FROGGS .tell someone Please port that module
20:01 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to someone.
20:01 Woodi joined #perl6
20:01 timotimo haha
20:01 * FROGGS .oO( Owl post again. )
20:02 virtualsue_ joined #perl6
20:03 timotimo .. owl ... post?
20:03 ollinator okay i see perl6 is quite different from previous versions. but i'm interested in learning, so i'll have a closer look. thanks for the hint
20:04 ollinator thanks @everybody
20:04 timotimo cool
20:04 brrt good luck
20:04 timotimo keep us posted with your progress and questions :)
20:04 masak come back soon!
20:04 timotimo input about our learning material is always welcome
20:04 timotimo we know there's some rough edges
20:05 FROGGS timotimo: that's a Harry Potter chapter
20:05 timotimo ah!
20:05 timotimo eulenpost
20:05 dalek roast: 4005f4d | lizmat++ | S (12 files):
20:05 dalek roast: s/cmp_ok/cmp-ok/g
20:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4005f4d098
20:05 FROGGS aye
20:06 * masak .oO( cat-head eagle post )
20:08 jdv79 is all the testing stuff doc'd in a central place?
20:08 jdv79 it would be nice if we tested all the things and it was easily knowable/findable
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20:09 jdv79 basically like p5's cpantesters but with better reports maybe - idk
20:13 jdv79 [Coke]: ^^^ (forgot to address that burst)
20:14 japhb jdv79: I was literally in the middle of suggesting you talk to [Coke] when you sent that last line.  :-)
20:16 [Coke] I don't think such a thing exists, no.
20:17 dalek roast: b19b0bf | usev6++ | S04-phasers/pre-post.t:
20:17 dalek roast: Fix precedence for fudged test
20:17 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b19b0bfddb
20:18 FROGGS jdv79: we have something like cpantesters, testers.perl6.org - feel free to create feature request issues
20:19 jdv79 docs
20:19 jdv79 all i know about that is that if i go to that url i see reports in a semi-confusing UI
20:20 andreoss [ptc]: i want add a handler for =RESULT section to p6-examples, in order to place results of PE tasks under a spoiler tag, is it ok?
20:20 jdv79 who runs that stuff?
20:20 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
20:20 FROGGS jdv79: so you are missing information like these? http://wiki.cpantesters.org/
20:20 FROGGS jdv79: me
20:24 [ptc] andreoss: go for it
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20:24 [ptc] andreoss: if you can add tests for the new feature, that'd be good too :-)
20:25 jdv79 the first thing that comes to mind is having all the major rakudo smokes (moar,jvm x t,spec,stress) somewhere
20:25 jdv79 also where is there info about what happened here: http://testers.perl6.org/reports/47409.html
20:26 [ptc] andreoss: thanks for adding more examples and tests for them!  However, could you update the plan in the tests as well?  It was missed the last few times
20:26 al2o3-cr joined #perl6
20:27 jdv79 where are the reports sourced?
20:28 jdv79 i guess docs and rakudo smoking are my main interests
20:28 FROGGS jdv79: for report 47409, the report client (panda) did not record any data... dunno why, would be interesting to reproduce and fix
20:29 jdv79 is that what happens when panda was run with --notests?
20:29 [ptc] andreoss: also, I've been wondering if we should remove the expected results from the Euler examples, since the Euler people actually really don't like it having the results being published publically
20:29 dalek roast: 0cbc065 | lizmat++ | S (134 files):
20:29 dalek roast: s/eval_dies_ok/eval-dies-ok/g
20:29 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0cbc065a46
20:29 jdv79 and does panda always report?
20:29 FROGGS rakudo smoking happens in [Coke]++'s repositories, and docs are at http://doc.perl6.org/language/testing
20:29 timotimo not always; you need to set an env var
20:29 FROGGS jdv79: might be about --notests... dunno offhand
20:30 FROGGS like in: PANDA_SUBMIT_TESTREPORTS=1 panda install Flubber
20:30 jdv79 is that doc'ed somewhere?
20:30 FROGGS I fear not
20:30 FROGGS only mentioned in a blog post
20:30 bartolin jdv79: I also run daily rakudo smoke tests (on FreeBSD), based on [Coke]++'s scripts: https://github.com/usev6/perl6-roast-data
20:30 FROGGS I know I need to add pages to testers.perl6.org that explain that
20:31 * jdv79 misses the maturity of the p5 world
20:31 FROGGS no time yet though :o(
20:31 jdv79 :(
20:31 jdv79 much to be done!
20:31 jdv79 hopefully not too much
20:31 FROGGS jdv79: yes, and we are just a handful of ppl
20:31 jdv79 i can work on this stuff
20:31 bartolin ++jdv79
20:32 FROGGS ++jdv79
20:32 FROGGS gnight #perl6
20:32 brrt any help is highly appreciated :-)
20:32 bartolin g'night, FROGGS
20:33 lizmat gnight FROGGS[mobile]
20:33 andreoss [ptc]: i guess removing them would be even better than hiding them under a spoiler tag
20:33 [ptc] andreoss: most certainly much easier :-)
20:33 [ptc] andreoss: one could certainly look in the tests for the answers, however they are somewhat "hidden" there and then don't turn up on the website
20:34 [ptc] andreoss: sorry if I spoiled your fun!
20:34 brrt goodnight, all
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20:39 andreoss [ptc]: is the site updated automatically or manually?
20:41 TimToady another protip, you don't have to put #?USES on every call to a function; you're supposed to be able to put it onto the function itself, as long as it parses like one of the built-in tests
20:42 TimToady at least, I hacked that into fudge at one point, so maybe it still works
20:43 [ptc] andreoss: automatically.  There's a cron job which checks for new updates every 5 min
20:44 woolfy joined #perl6
20:44 woolfy left #perl6
20:45 andreoss [ptc]: it's been almost 2 weeks since last updated
20:49 dalek roast: a4cac76 | usev6++ | S04-phasers/ (2 files):
20:49 dalek roast: Use unique ticket number for similiar test failures
20:49 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a4cac76f60
20:51 [ptc] andreoss: hrm, that's good to know
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20:52 [Coke] (rakudo smoking) I need to be fix this so I can run the perl5 integration tests. :P
20:52 [Coke] same issue as being able to run the linenoise repl out of the ./install dir
20:53 [ptc] andreoss: http://examples.perl6.org/build-log/ is a good place to look for errors.  Wish I'd looked earlier...
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20:54 dalek roast: 709e414 | lizmat++ | S (200 files):
20:54 dalek roast: s/dies_ok/dies-ok/g
20:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/709e414201
20:59 itz_ I bought this thinking it would be more reliable than wikipedia
20:59 itz_ http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/899428/Perl
21:00 itz_ Canadian-born programmer and linguist Larry Wall
21:00 itz_ eh
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21:03 [ptc] andreoss: great work with the lisp interpreter!
21:03 andreoss x
21:03 andreoss thanks
21:03 isBEKaml [ptc]: what? where's the lisp interpreter?
21:04 isBEKaml :-)
21:04 [ptc] isBEKaml: in the perl6-examples repo, in the categories/interpreters dir :-)
21:05 [ptc] andreoss: it seems that the perl6 on hack.p6.org is too old for the perl6 code in the examples *sigh*
21:05 mephinet joined #perl6
21:05 isBEKaml [ptc]: Ah, it's been a while since I gpull'd anything.. Let me do this now :-)
21:06 raiph joined #perl6
21:06 [ptc] andreoss: looks like I'll have to do some testing on hack in order to get things back going again
21:06 andreoss [ptc]: though i guess implementing list interpreter as a slang would be more perl6 way
21:06 mephinet joined #perl6
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21:07 dalek perl6-examples: 34504cc | paultcochrane++ | categories/interpreters/lisp.pl:
21:07 dalek perl6-examples: [interpreters] replace tabs with spaces
21:07 dalek perl6-examples:
21:07 dalek perl6-examples:  - add vim coda
21:07 dalek perl6-examples:  - remove trailing whitespace
21:07 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/34504cceae
21:07 dalek perl6-examples: ed9570f | paultcochrane++ | categories/euler/prob0 (3 files):
21:07 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] further whitespace, formatting cleanups
21:07 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/ed9570f78d
21:07 timotimo [ptc]: don't you just need to update the interpreter?
21:07 isBEKaml andreoss++ # 8 day old lisp interpreter!
21:08 timotimo or downgrade the Pod::To::HTML distro?
21:09 isBEKaml [ptc], andreoss: Not a problem really - just thought I'd let you know that lisp.pl has mixed tabs and spaces. Looks a bit funny in (old) vi
21:11 andreoss isBEKaml: oh, it's probably because i've edited with both vim and emacs (for indenting)
21:12 [ptc] timotimo: do you mean on hack?
21:12 timotimo yos
21:12 [ptc] ähm, I just use the one moritz++ installed there
21:12 isBEKaml andreoss: no worries - hack away on lispy!
21:12 [ptc] my guess is that it'll be updated after Thursday
21:13 timotimo well, rakudobrew is installed there, too :)
21:13 lizmat commute home&
21:13 [ptc] true
21:13 timotimo i would have petitioned to replace the "class Foobar;" form with braces for the time being
21:13 [ptc] maybe that's something for the morrow
21:13 timotimo because that will work on older and newer versions of rakudo
21:14 [ptc] the discussion with masak and FROGGS ended with a consensus for the blockless form...
21:14 [ptc] at least I haven't updated all of the modules I'd planned to have submitted PRs for by now :-)
21:14 timotimo oh
21:14 timotimo OK
21:14 timotimo BBIAB
21:16 jdv79 nine: around?
21:19 [ptc] andreoss: should I not have removed the tabs from lisp.pl?
21:19 [ptc] andreoss: sorry if I've broken anything!
21:37 dalek perl6-examples: 889bd65 | andreoss++ | categories/euler/prob06 (2 files):
21:37 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] pod formating
21:37 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/889bd65303
21:37 RabidGravy does nqp::watchfile() poll or does it use some inotify thing if it's available
21:43 jdv79 .tell nine please see the PR on I::Py
21:43 yoleaux jdv79: I'll pass your message to nine.
21:44 * flussence would like it if `panda smoke` also accepted --auth= so I could be super-lazy about keeping my own stuff un-bitrotted
21:44 timotimo RabidGravy: it uses whatever libuv offers
21:48 [ptc] hacked, hack.  Now the examples build and deploy again.
21:48 [ptc] unfortunately, it's a hack :-/
21:49 RabidGravy which is what I suspected, but it doesn't tie up with the cpu usage I am seeing, I'm wondering if it is built in such a way as not to use inotify
21:50 tony-o_ m: https://gist.github.com/tony-o/ad52076865a21edec940
21:50 camelia rakudo-moar 97b4db: OUTPUT«IO::Socket::INET is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:1␤  in method new at src/RESTRICTED.setting:32␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/f1aLK_iZoo:5␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/f1aLK_iZoo:1␤␤»
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21:54 RabidGravy flussence, you could parse the modules list and grab the ones with the appropriate auth
21:56 flussence oh, didn't notice --verbose there. That'll do fine.
21:57 flussence .oO( next job: actually *finish* a few of these half-baked modules sitting on disk so I can put them up there... )
22:00 timotimo RabidGravy: we currently have something in place that makes the event loop unable to not spin
22:00 RabidGravy right
22:00 timotimo RabidGravy: jnthn is going to solve it. on my local moarvm i have an usleep in the function that spins the most and it makes the cpu usage almost 0
22:04 RabidGravy with more than one core it isn't a problem
22:04 RabidGravy ;-)
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22:55 dalek rakudo/nom: 03bf80f | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
22:55 dalek rakudo/nom: don't say TTIAR unless next thing looks like term
22:55 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/03bf80f2a4
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23:20 TimToady m: say True ¿¿ 1 ¡¡ 2;
23:20 camelia rakudo-moar 03bf80: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/8Po7V7DShH␤Confused␤at /tmp/8Po7V7DShH:1␤------> 3say True7⏏5 ¿¿ 1 ¡¡ 2;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        state…»
23:20 TimToady m: say True¿;
23:20 camelia rakudo-moar 03bf80: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/NX9jVCyVye␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/NX9jVCyVye:1␤------> 3say True7⏏5¿;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        postfix␤        statement end␤        statement mo…»
23:20 TimToady those are both better than TTIAR
23:34 dalek rakudo/nom: 4ed69d2 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
23:34 dalek rakudo/nom: "parameterized" is misleading
23:34 dalek rakudo/nom:
23:34 dalek rakudo/nom: When the parameters to block are optional and, in fact, not supplied by
23:34 dalek rakudo/nom: the user, it's rather confusing to say you were expecting a "parameterized
23:34 dalek rakudo/nom: block", which sounds as though the parameters are required.
23:34 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4ed69d224b
23:38 TimToady specifically, in regard to:
23:38 TimToady m: if 1.so? {...}
23:38 camelia rakudo-moar 03bf80: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/0FlafOJJYV␤Missing block␤at /tmp/0FlafOJJYV:1␤------> 3if 1.so7⏏5? {...}␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        parameterized block␤»
23:38 TimToady "Why does the block need parameters?"
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23:44 TimToady anyway, will now say 'block or pointy block'
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