Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-05-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:49 raydiak seems to me like there'd be many existing formats and protocols using MD5 which someone might want to support in their P6 script/module/whatever, unless we're so far in the future now that such things don't really exist any more...???...
00:51 skids Heck, you even still need MD2 if you want to do PKI.
00:52 raydiak heh wow
01:02 * raydiak finds himself developing a geezer attiutude wrt the "don't need old stuff" perspective, in general
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01:19 tony-o_ raydiak++
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02:10 jdv79 why isn't lazy implemented then?
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02:17 colomon ‘coz we’re lazy
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04:36 tony-o_ itll be implemented when you need to use it
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05:30 dalek ecosystem: ffaf1fa | (Sterling Hanenkamp)++ | META.list:
05:30 dalek ecosystem: Add Template-Anti to the Perl6 Ecosystem
05:30 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/ffaf1fafd1
05:30 dalek ecosystem: adef775 | (Tim Smith)++ | META.list:
05:30 dalek ecosystem: Merge pull request #45 from zostay/master
05:30 dalek ecosystem:
05:30 dalek ecosystem: Add Template-Anti to the Perl6 Ecosystem
05:30 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/adef775aa0
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05:37 szabgab Hello there! The YAPC::EU organizers would like to evaluate the level of interest for hackathons, if you'd like to have a Perl 6 hackathon, please add yourself to the wiki page: http://act.yapc.eu/ye2015/wiki?node=Hackathons
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05:40 szabgab and if you are already there, please submit your Perl 6 related talk to have a longer list than this: http://act.yapc.eu/ye2015/talks/tag/perl6
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06:26 FROGGS good morning #perl6
06:26 yoleaux 20 May 2015 20:29Z <japhb> FROGGS: From the commit message for MoarVM: commit 4102a25b1acea1d453d87f4e614d328ba0af8816
06:26 yoleaux 20 May 2015 20:29Z <japhb> FROGGS: From the commit message for MoarVM: commit 4102a25b1acea1d453d87f4e614d328ba0af8816 it looks like the comparison is reversed (> instead of <).  Am I misunderstanding?
06:27 FROGGS TODAY IS RELEASE DAYS - please add your changes to the changelog, hold back patches when you are uncertain about them, etc
06:27 FROGGS and test what you can, also modules etc
06:30 FROGGS .tell japhb the commit states "round up to a multiple of"... maybe it is my bad English; if the biggest elem (perhaps an inlined struct) is bigger than 8 bytes (void* on x86_64), then it should allocate a multiple of 8 bytes
06:30 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to japhb.
06:31 FROGGS .tell japhb there is already that bit of code: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob​/4102a25b1acea1d453d87f4e614d328ba0af​8816/src/6model/reprs/CStruct.c#L242
06:31 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to japhb.
06:32 FROGGS .ask jnthn are you around in about 12 hours to upload the moarvm release tarball?
06:32 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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07:57 lizmat Good *, #perl6!
07:58 lizmat things not yet in ChangeLog, which I don't know quite how to word them:
07:58 FROGGS morning lizmat
07:58 lizmat + Cunion changes in NativeCall
07:58 FROGGS I'll add that of course
08:00 lizmat + Add jna.library.path to set properties for JVM runner
08:01 FROGGS I can add that too
08:02 FROGGS lizmat: can you please run 'make test' in nqp and rakudo? I did that on 64 and 32bit linux and 64bit windows
08:02 FROGGS will do 32bit windows in a bit too
08:03 lizmat will do
08:04 FROGGS lizmat++
08:04 FROGGS I'll disable CURLI in a bit, by only putting file# in INC and CUSTOM_LIB
08:04 FROGGS this way we can have a star...
08:05 lizmat cool
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08:05 FROGGS though, I'll reenable CURLI after the release of course... maybe only in a branch
08:05 vendethiel o/ #perl6!
08:05 FROGGS hi vendethiel
08:05 lizmat Files=98, Tests=3763,  9 wallclock secs ( 0.42 usr  0.15 sys +  8.38 cusr  0.80 csys =  9.75 CPU)
08:06 FROGGS did is pass? :o)
08:06 lizmat FROGGS: yes
08:06 lizmat t/04-nativecall/02-simple-args.t   (Wstat: 512 Tests: 12 Failed: 2)
08:06 lizmat Failed tests:  10-11
08:06 lizmat Non-zero exit status: 2
08:06 lizmat Files=39, Tests=511,  3 wallclock secs ( 0.20 usr  0.08 sys + 17.25 cusr  2.10 csys = 19.63 CPU)
08:06 lizmat those failures I've seen for weeks now
08:09 FROGGS hmmm, this is about uint8... I thought we fixed those just recently... hmmm
08:13 dalek rakudo/nom: 7b42268 | lizmat++ | docs/ChangeLog:
08:13 dalek rakudo/nom: Some more entries
08:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7b42268647
08:17 masak hi vendethiel
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08:24 dalek roast: c5b581a | lizmat++ | S10-packages/basic.t:
08:24 dalek roast: Fix deprecation warning for bare package
08:24 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c5b581a985
08:26 RabidGravy woo! "Package rakudo-star.x86_64 0:0.0.2015.04-3.fc21 will be an update"
08:27 moritz 0.0.2015.04 ?
08:27 moritz but yes, woo!
08:27 RabidGravy who knows the mystery of fedora versioning?
08:28 FROGGS \o/
08:28 nwc10 w.0.0 surely?
08:28 dalek roast: d8d17f9 | lizmat++ | S26-documentation/module-comment.t:
08:28 dalek roast: Fix deprecation message for module
08:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d8d17f98fd
08:30 dalek roast: b4149a2 | lizmat++ | integration/advent2013-day19.t:
08:30 dalek roast: Fix deprecation warning for Supply.more/emit
08:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b4149a24b9
08:31 lizmat afk for a few hours
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08:56 masak hm, the Angular people actually seem not-half-bad at coordinating between 1.x and 2.0 development
08:56 masak didn't really expect that :)
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09:10 timotimo how do we actually have a 2015.04 rakudo star on fedora?
09:10 FROGGS that's an interesting question :o)
09:11 timotimo or did rabid gravy just make that up? :P
09:21 RabidGravy nope it really did just update it (the previous was 2014.12)
09:21 timotimo but ... how
09:21 timotimo we didn't make a 2015.04 rakudo star
09:22 RabidGravy jonathan@coriolanus ~]$ /usr/bin/perl6 -v
09:22 RabidGravy This is perl6 version 2015.04 built on MoarVM version 2015.04
09:23 timotimo did the fedora packager just do the star release process on their own?
09:23 timotimo i'm confused
09:23 RabidGravy let me dig a bit
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09:25 RabidGravy http://www.spinics.net/lists/fedor​a-package-announce/msg158251.html
09:26 timotimo ah
09:26 timotimo so just an nqp update
09:26 timotimo and thus a moarvm update
09:26 timotimo that's not that bad
09:26 timotimo it passes all the spec tests, yeah?
09:27 RabidGravy http://pkgs.fedoraproject.​org/cgit/rakudo-star.git/
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09:29 timotimo BuildRequires:  readline-devel ← that wasn't thrown out at that point yet?
09:29 literal sad that Debian's rakudo package is still at 2014.07
09:36 timotimo oh my, the XML module is quite unhappy
09:36 timotimo probably GLR-related
09:37 masak most likely, yes
09:37 masak I fixed two different GLR-fallout-related things in a script of mine yesterday.
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09:57 timotimo Net::Irc has warnings about character classes containing quotes
09:58 timotimo Net::IRC::Bot, apparently
09:58 timotimo LibraryMake also needs a touch-up for the unit keyword
09:59 timotimo and all the embedded modules in panda
10:04 timotimo huh, there's no test failures with XML here
10:04 timotimo but something's wrong with comments
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10:10 timotimo gaaaaaaaah
10:10 timotimo i was looking at the wrong line because the last digit of the line number got wrapped in my terminal
10:15 masak timotimo: do you have line numbers sitting on the right of the text? how did they manage to get wrapped?
10:16 timotimo Use of Nil in string context  in block  at /home/timo/perl6/ecosystem/exemel/lib/XML.pm6:996
10:16 timotimo exactly the 6 and only the 6 went to the next line
10:18 timotimo XML is still using [0] to get at things quantified with ? in regexes
10:22 masak m: grammar G { regex TOP { <foo>? }; regex foo { foo } }; G.parse("foo"); say $<foo>.^name
10:22 camelia rakudo-moar 7b4226: OUTPUT«Match␤»
10:22 masak m: grammar G { regex TOP { <foo>? }; regex foo { foo } }; G.parse("foo"); say $<foo>[0].^name
10:22 camelia rakudo-moar 7b4226: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
10:23 masak how many times have we changed that .[0] thing back and forth now for the ? quantifier?
10:24 masak this is Perl 6's random hunt for the sweet spot of the Maybe type :P
10:24 timotimo good Q
10:24 masak (the closest to which we ever got was probably TimToady++'s OKness proposal, which was contested/rejected)
10:24 timotimo i didn't pay sufficient attention
10:24 * vendethiel never witnessed such a change
10:24 vendethiel OKness?
10:24 timotimo yeah, OKness was a bit tough
10:25 timotimo how different types should signal an "ok" value vs a "not ok" value
10:25 timotimo i forgot the details
10:25 masak vendethiel: not sure I'll be able to hunt it down. it was a gist by TimToady with some pretty radical changes to the type system.
10:25 timotimo er ... huh?
10:25 timotimo Template::Anti is using a rakudo from 2014-12
10:26 timotimo on its travis-ci
10:26 timotimo dwimperl.com is szabgab's?
10:26 masak vendethiel: found it: https://gist.github.com/TimToady/1828667
10:28 vendethiel ...that sounds very confusing
10:28 masak I remember feeling that it was somehow "inside-out".
10:28 masak I'm re-reading the proposal now.
10:29 masak right, captured in this sentence: "'0 but True' needs to become more like 'OK[REALLY => 0]'"
10:29 masak that turns it inside-out.
10:30 * vendethiel doesn't get what's "REALLY" or why Ok takes a type parameter that's a hash
10:30 timotimo named type parameters?
10:30 vendethiel oh, uhmm.
10:31 vendethiel m: role Foo[:$x] { method x { say $x } }; say Foo[:5x].x;
10:31 camelia rakudo-moar 7b4226: OUTPUT«5␤True␤»
10:31 vendethiel :o
10:31 masak please don't use the `:5x` syntax willy-nilly :)
10:31 vendethiel just because it's simpler to type :)
10:31 masak it's meant for a very specific purpose, and using it outside of that is basically mis-use of the feature
10:31 * vendethiel went as far as removing it from the learnxiny
10:32 vendethiel ..exactly because of what you said :-)
10:32 masak probably a good idea :)
10:32 timotimo you're speaking of "mis-use of a feature"? :)
10:32 timotimo you know people will take that as a challenge?
10:32 * masak .oO( :0good_idea )
10:32 FROGGS is this #python?
10:33 vendethiel isfroggsguido
10:33 vendethiel .oO( poor FROGGS )
10:33 masak just because we're not #python doesn't mean we can't point to mis-uses of features ;)
10:33 FROGGS :o)
10:33 timotimo i want to introduce a new syntax for this kind of pair
10:33 timotimo :(value)name
10:33 masak timotimo: that totally breaks the original intent
10:33 timotimo .o( i can make that a slang! )
10:33 masak of :2nd
10:33 * vendethiel gets reminded of objective-c's block syntax
10:34 masak timotimo: you would be better of disallowing the syntax everywhere except in calls to .subst :)
10:34 masak off*
10:34 timotimo i'm not saying i'm going to use it at all, but i'd defend a programmer's desire to use :123foo whenever she wants to use it!
10:35 masak I think that's a poor use of the defense of that freedom ;)
10:35 masak the question "does it improve readability of the source code" should show up somewhere
10:37 timotimo of course a programmer would only want to use it where it improves readability of the source codes
10:37 timotimo that goes without sayings
10:38 FROGGS my $datetime.add( :1day )
10:39 masak timotimo: but it doesn't go without saying. I had to remind vendethiel above in the backlog (and he immediately agreed that it was a bad use).
10:39 vendethiel wut?
10:39 masak vendethiel: the :5x thing
10:39 vendethiel I said I used it just because it was simple as an example, not because I thought it was proper use here
10:40 masak right, exactly.
10:40 masak I do realize that your example was a simple, throwaway one.
10:40 masak I just don't want to give people ideas about that being a sensible way to write named arguments with integer values *in most cases*.
10:40 timotimo :)
10:40 masak :1day is a good example of a possible good use. but it has to be viewed on a case-by-case basis like that.
10:41 timotimo m: say :0xfood
10:41 masak people hate to think for themselves, I know. sweeping rules that ignore specifics are much preferred.
10:41 camelia rakudo-moar 7b4226: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'xfood' passed␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/YxKX6v0MI4:1␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/YxKX6v0MI4:1␤␤»
10:41 timotimo m: say (:0xfood)
10:41 camelia rakudo-moar 7b4226: OUTPUT«xfood => 0␤»
10:41 vendethiel masak: I'm just responding to the "had to remind". don't worry -- I'm aware of :5x's use :)
10:41 timotimo d'aaw
10:41 timotimo ^- super trolly
10:42 masak m: say 0xf00d
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar 7b4226: OUTPUT«61453␤»
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10:48 timotimo well, at least i got rid of the warnings in XML :)
10:48 timotimo and the deprecation for unit
10:48 timotimo is panda going to wait for the release (or even star?) to put unit keywords into its dependencies?
10:48 FROGGS m: say (0xDEADBEEF)
10:48 camelia rakudo-moar 7b4226: OUTPUT«3735928559␤»
10:48 FROGGS m: say (:0xDEADBEEF)
10:48 camelia rakudo-moar 7b4226: OUTPUT«xDEADBEEF => 0␤»
10:49 FROGGS :P
10:49 FROGGS (to be avoided)
10:49 timotimo agreed
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10:59 timotimo maybe there should be a "best practice" to put a test at the end of every test file that checks if any control exceptions have been raised?
11:01 lizmat maybe we should build that into Test.pm ?
11:02 timotimo kind of hard to do, as it needs to have a CONTROL block stack-wise outside the user's code
11:02 timotimo someone suggested at some point the ability to export phasers
11:02 timotimo that would help here
11:03 lizmat yup, exactly
11:04 lizmat still. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to export a CONTROL block to the outer scope
11:04 lizmat which at that point, hasn't been fully parsed yet
11:04 timotimo yeah, i don't think it'd be impossible
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11:12 dalek rakudo/nom: e113455 | lizmat++ | docs/ChangeLog:
11:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Mention demise of .for
11:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e113455690
11:13 lizmat afk again&
11:13 FROGGS lizmat++
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11:24 timotimo List/Supply.rotor expects a list of Pairs (elems|elems => gap) - i wonder how this could be changed to reflect the pair/value thingie
11:24 timotimo i mean, you can still pass normal single numbers, right?
11:25 timotimo or ... you don't?
11:27 timotimo + 'earliest' now handles for remaining channels without specific handlers
11:27 timotimo is that "for" stray, or is my grammar grammar busted?
11:27 timotimo Int/Rat ** -Int now generates a Rat if possible, else a Num - and i think this "else" would read better as "otherwise"?
11:28 moritz +1 to otherwise
11:29 moritz or else 'orelse' :-)
11:29 timotimo andthen do the release
11:31 moritz CATCH { everything that's not supposed to be released } before you lose CONTROL
11:31 FROGGS timotimo: always patience with the young horses :D
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11:40 dalek rakudo/nom: 9bdeaa9 | (Carl Masak)++ | docs/ChangeLog:
11:40 dalek rakudo/nom: [docs/ChangeLog] remove extraneous 'for'
11:40 dalek rakudo/nom:
11:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Pointed out by timotimo++.
11:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9bdeaa9a31
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11:59 timotimo do you people think the language/ section of the docs should be sorted manually rather than alphabetically?
11:59 timotimo putting "grammars" before "regexes" doesn't seem terribly helpful
12:01 timotimo There are predefined character classes of the form \w. Its negation is written with an upper-case letter, \W. ← just nit picking here, really; would "their negations" be more correct than "its negation" here?
12:02 timotimo m: "foo\n\r" ~~ /\s/; say (~$/).perl
12:02 camelia rakudo-moar e11345: OUTPUT«"\n"␤»
12:02 timotimo m: "foo\r\n" ~~ /\s/; say (~$/).perl
12:02 camelia rakudo-moar e11345: OUTPUT«"\r"␤»
12:03 timotimo maybe the \s section should have an explicit "\s does not match logical newlines, just single characters."
12:04 timotimo anyways, very good that the character class sections explicitly point out exotic characters that fall into that category
12:07 dalek doc: 2475551 | timo++ | lib/Language/regexes.pod:
12:07 dalek doc: regexes.pod - missing word
12:07 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/24755515b3
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12:16 masak timotimo: yes, ordering the language/ section manually sounds like an improvement over alphabetical order.
12:21 timotimo how do we implement that? give the pod files a litle heading section "ordering" where we can define what cmp-ing the pod files against each other shall give?
12:22 timotimo regexes.pod: =ordering before grammars.pod ?
12:22 timotimo i'm not very convinced by giving the files numbers at the front
12:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 29e5521 | FROGGS++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo.pm:
12:27 dalek rakudo/nom: use hash symbol everywhere in CUR include-specs
12:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/29e552144a
12:27 dalek rakudo/nom: 7adde5a | FROGGS++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local (2 files):
12:27 dalek rakudo/nom: remove method "install" for CURLF
12:27 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7adde5ad29
12:33 dalek rakudo-star-daily: d74d118 | coke++ | log/ (9 files):
12:33 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
12:33 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/d74d118cc2
12:36 timotimo [Coke]: got any clue why it fails to find all these modules?
12:42 masak timotimo: hm, ordering information should preferably not be spread out over all the files. better if they're in one place, such as the table-of-contents where they're listed.
12:42 masak timotimo: that way, no numbers need be used either. just an ordered list.
12:44 timotimo we don't actually have a "the table-of-contents" document
12:44 timotimo do we?
12:44 masak oh, mebbe not.
12:44 moritz I think it's auto-generated
12:44 masak can it be placed as a meta-data file in some appropriate place?
12:44 masak then it doesn't even have to be Pod
12:45 moritz from =TITLE and =SUBTITLE attributes
12:45 masak the important thing is that the renderer finds it and uses it, right?
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12:45 moritz right
12:45 moritz and since it parses the pod, it should be in the pod
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12:46 FROGGS tadzik: ping
12:46 masak moritz: yes, but the document it should rightfully be in is automatically generated...
12:47 masak moritz: ...and spreading it over all the sub-documents just because there's no ToC document feels... ugh.
12:47 masak (and avoiding ordinal numbers would be worthwhile, too)
12:47 moritz masak: TBH, the whole htmlify qualifies as "ugh"
12:47 moritz patches welcome :-)
12:48 timotimo right :S
12:48 moritz we just had the mis-fortune of me being the only one hacking on it when it was originally developed
12:48 moritz so nobody could prevent my bad ideas from the start :-)
12:48 masak heh :) don't be so hard on yourself
12:49 masak we have documentation rendered as HTML. moritz++
12:49 masak this is the crucial difference between software as effect vs software as artifact.
12:49 masak software as effect: does it work? yes! yay!
12:50 masak software as artifact: is it beautiful? no. boo! does it contain bad ideas? unfortunately. ugh :/
12:50 masak both aspects are important, but it could be argued that the first one takes precedence if the goal is to quickly deliver value.
12:51 masak and that's exactly what happened here. so moritz++ :)
12:51 FROGGS hmmm....
12:51 FROGGS Compiling lib/Facter.pm to mbc
12:51 FROGGS useless use of 'is rw' on @!search_path  in any  at src/Perl6/World.nqp:2498
12:52 moritz rw on a private attribute looks questionable
12:52 moritz so does the line number :-)
12:54 FROGGS error reporting bug me thinks
12:55 FROGGS it should report this line instead: https://github.com/cosimo/perl6-fa​cter/blob/master/lib/Facter.pm#L47
12:59 raiph joined #perl6
12:59 masak reproduced locally.
12:59 * masak submits rakudobug
12:59 masak m: class T { has $!foo is rw }
13:00 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«useless use of 'is rw' on $!foo  in any  at src/Perl6/World.nqp:2498␤»
13:00 vendethiel I guess it's the ".setting" regexp?
13:04 masak vendethiel: I don't... think so...? which ".setting" regex?
13:05 vendethiel warning filters stack frames using something like "%frame<line> !~~ /'.setting'/" iirc
13:08 moritz vendethiel: no
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13:08 moritz vendethiel: the problem is that the line of the file that's being parsed doesn't appear *anywhere* in the stack
13:09 liztormato Perhaps it should be a .ends-with('.nqp') ?
13:09 moritz because the line isn't calling anything; it's the parser that does something with this line
13:09 moritz so, can't use a normal warning here
13:09 vendethiel oh :)
13:09 vendethiel thanks for the clarification!
13:09 liztormato Cycling again &
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13:18 DrForr .tell lizmat #125226 was my own fault, the 'please close this bug' message never made it, apparently.
13:18 yoleaux DrForr: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
13:19 [Coke] OBTW, we're going to have to adopt some kind of branch/dev/release strategy after "release day" that isn't "everything in master^Wnom"
13:19 masak nwc10: just saw your comment in #125216 -- "are floats real numbers?"
13:19 masak nwc10: well, no -- strictly speaking, they don't guarantee associativity in addition, which real numbers do.
13:20 DrForr On other notes, can the Perl6 grammar be exposed within perl6 yet? I keep getting this irritating itch to write perl6tidy...
13:20 timotimo i have a little bit of interest in writing something that deparses
13:20 masak nwc10: but I think that does not detract from the fact that floats are very much there to be a goodenuf representation of real numbers.
13:21 [Coke] timotimo: (fails to find modules) - no, I just unbusted the star build process a day ago, haven't dug into this one yet.
13:21 masak nwc10: and saying that "floats are positioned on the real line" does not feel weird or wrong to me at all.
13:21 timotimo ok, thanks for your work! :)
13:21 timotimo [Coke]: perhaps star is including modules that don't have "provides" sections yet?
13:22 timotimo shall i go through the submodules in star and bump the versions up a bit?
13:22 DrForr Well, floats are just rationals with a really big denominator :)
13:23 [Coke] timotimo: I can't remember if my star tester is grabbing master/HEAD or just the revision tagged in the submodule. I think it's the former.
13:23 [Coke] timotimo: but bumping those probably couldn't hurt.
13:24 FROGGS [Coke]: why do we need to adopt another release strategy?
13:25 DrForr masak: Thanks, 'twas a thinko on my part.
13:26 masak DrForr: there's an unfortunate corner there where the syntax for blocks and hashes collides.
13:27 DrForr Yeah, I was just used enough to things such as lives_ok {} to assume for a few shining minutes that subtest {} operated the same way.
13:28 FROGGS ewww, Yapsi/t/compiler.t infiniloops
13:28 DrForr Mind you, I think it probably *should*, for consistency's sake, but we've all got our crossproducts to bear.
13:30 masak FROGGS: probably GLR-related... :/
13:30 FROGGS masak: yeah, is just not fun in a smoke run, is all :o)
13:32 masak maybe the smoker should have a 5-minute auto-kill timeout...
13:33 FROGGS .tell panda 1) please add curlies to package decls to File::Find, Shell::Command and JSON::Tiny
13:33 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to panda.
13:33 timotimo FROGGS: release strategy? what?
13:33 [Coke] FROGGS: right now everything is "get as much as possible of whoever wants to work on stuff into the next release". After we have a "real" release, we need to have some sort of arrangement where there's some discussion about what's going in the release, new features, backcompat, timing with the actual release date...
13:33 FROGGS .tell panda 2) the 'build reverse deps feature' builds reverse deps of not yet installed modules, but it does not install their deps
13:33 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to panda.
13:34 timotimo telling that to ... panda? :)
13:34 FROGGS ups
13:34 FROGGS hehe
13:34 [Coke] we do all of this in an ad hoc fashion right now (and better than many for pay gigs I've been on.) but "everything into master" isn't viable if you have multiple releases in the wild to care about.
13:34 FROGGS .tell tadzik 1) please add curlies to package decls to File::Find, Shell::Command and JSON::Tiny
13:34 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to tadzik.
13:34 FROGGS .tell tadzik 2) the 'build reverse deps feature' builds reverse deps of not yet installed modules, but it does not install their deps
13:34 yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to tadzik.
13:35 [Coke] (right now, our response to anyone with an existing version is "upgrade to the latest( and sorry, some stuff might break)"
13:35 FROGGS [Coke]: my only concern is that a branch that is not master might be not that often tested on different platforms
13:36 FROGGS [Coke]: so instead of release branches I would propose we keep having feature and dev branches
13:36 FROGGS though, the point where stuff is merged into master/nom should be discussed more then
13:36 FROGGS discussed and decided*
13:40 [Coke] I'm not tied to a particular plan of attack here, just want there to be some plan. We also should consider tagging or somehow labelling branches that need testing for whatever automatic infrastructure we have (to the question from jdv79 recently about "how are we testing what and where is it")
13:41 FROGGS aye
13:41 FROGGS I very much agree
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13:49 Woodi hi today :)
13:49 Woodi I must say that   has $.fh is lazy = open( $!file, :r );  is a fun :)
13:51 Woodi it's like user want's to browse web, he starts browser, access network and modem starts to dial somewhere - such futuristic automatization :)
13:51 FROGGS hehe
13:51 FROGGS it should also make some funny noise :o)
13:52 Woodi but it can be seen as kind of "finalizer", a "starter" or trigger doing action...
13:52 Woodi or general mechanism for TIE but not only for storge...
13:53 Woodi actually we have/had wrappers for methods, maybe it can be reused ?
13:53 dalek star: a55705b | timotimo++ | modules/ (16 files):
13:53 dalek star: update submodules to latest masters
13:53 dalek star:
13:53 dalek star: this fixes a whole bunch of META.info files, for example
13:53 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/a55705bbdf
13:54 Woodi but generally speaking thing is like wanting to some bit of small scripting into boring, structural code :)
13:54 Woodi *to have some*
13:58 Woodi FROGGS: that noise is mandatory! it's kind of essential for modem-in-action ;)
14:00 Woodi and "is lazy" is wrong name. laziness to me is connected to messing with structures... trigger maybe ?  but all this thing seems like some layer above normal code sequence...
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14:20 masak Woodi: `is lazy` has pretty solid prior art in Moose, though.
14:21 masak Woodi: I don't share your connotation of "messing with structures", fwiw
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14:35 DrForr Naah, laziness is just a delayed action, doesn't *have* to be with data structures.
14:35 DrForr And a far more general act than TIEing an object.
14:36 FROGGS Inline::Perl5 fails :o(
14:36 FROGGS t/call_p6_function_from_p5.t .. ok
14:36 FROGGS panic: MUTEX_LOCK (22) [op.c:697].
14:36 FROGGS err, the failing test file is: t/callables.t
14:38 DrForr @a[3200000] = 1; # If your program never uses values from @a beyond 100, why preallocate? :)
14:39 FROGGS weird, I::P5 works when the deprecation message is not printed :o(
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14:50 [Coke] Inline::Perl5 tests aren't being run because I can't panda in an ./install directory - could have been failing for some time.
14:51 vendethiel .u II
14:51 yoleaux U+0418 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER I [Lu] (И)
14:51 yoleaux U+0419 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER SHORT I [Lu] (Й)
14:51 yoleaux U+0438 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER I [Ll] (и)
14:51 Klaudioh joined #perl6
14:54 FROGGS [Coke]: it works on my box when I do not pipe the result into a file :S
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15:01 hoelzro o/ #perl6
15:06 Ven joined #perl6
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15:40 NYC5 joined #perl6
15:40 NYC5 Hi room
15:42 FROGGS[mobile] hi
15:43 ssqq Hi NYC5
15:43 NYC5 Hi ssqq
15:43 NYC5 What is this room about?
15:43 NYC5 seems sorta lifeless ;-)
15:43 ssqq about Perl 6 language.
15:44 ssqq FROGGS: Could we add token to a grammar dynamically like add method to class?
15:44 lichtkind joined #perl6
15:44 NYC5 thanks, guess I am in wrong place then
15:44 NYC5 take care
15:44 NYC5 thanks for response :)
15:44 ssqq NYCS, you are welcome
15:45 NYC5 left #perl6
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15:57 hoelzro FROGGS[mobile]: do you have any plans/ideas for supporting STL stuff with NativeC++all?
16:00 tinyblak joined #perl6
16:01 timotimo ssqq: well, you can certainly use mixin to put in new tokens etc
16:01 FROGGS hoelzro: STL?
16:01 hoelzro FROGGS: standard template library
16:01 hoelzro ex. std::string, std::vector
16:01 timotimo impossible without a C++ compiler
16:01 hoelzro a lot of C++ libraries use them as arguments
16:01 hoelzro timotimo: I figured as much =/
16:01 hoelzro because of the template soup
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16:02 FROGGS can't we map that to Perl 6 types?
16:02 hoelzro I don't know if we can; the C++ compiler generates a bunch of code when it instantiates a templated type, doesn't it?
16:03 ssqq timotimo: let me have a look 'mixin'.:)
16:03 timotimo ssqq: with "but" and "does"
16:03 FROGGS hoelzro: I guess I need an example
16:04 hoelzro FROGGS: well, std::string is a typedef for std::basic_string<char>
16:04 hoelzro and, iirc, basic_string has a few other template arguments, but the default to "reasonable defaults"
16:05 hoelzro when I have a template type like basic_string, the .so doesn't contain all of the code for methods of that type
16:06 hoelzro any method that utilizes the type T is generated for each value provided for T
16:06 hoelzro so basic_string<char> and basic_string<wchar> methods reference entirely different code
16:06 vendethiel hoelzro: "STL" is the name of the *old* library, the c++ standard library is std :)
16:07 hoelzro one thing we *could* do is provide a support library that creates some common templated types for us
16:07 * hoelzro 's inexperience with C++ is showing =)
16:07 eli-se joined #perl6
16:07 vendethiel but yeah, templates have to be in headers files because the compiler needs to specialize them for your types
16:08 hoelzro right
16:09 eli-se vendethiel: not in C++98!
16:09 ssqq timotimo: have some sample about it?
16:11 timotimo ssqq: there is two modules out there that construct grammars dynamically
16:12 ssqq Css::Grammar?
16:14 timotimo no
16:14 timotimo i'm confused now
16:14 timotimo it seems like this one uses EVAL
16:15 timotimo the BNF one by tadzik
16:15 timotimo all it does is .^add_method before .^compose is called
16:15 timotimo https://github.com/tadzik/Grammar-BNF​/blob/master/lib/Grammar/ABNF.pm#L249
16:17 ssqq timotimo: thanks, let me see it carefully.
16:19 KotH joined #perl6
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16:19 KotH good evening!
16:21 timotimo what part of the star release process ought to grab rakudo/, nqp/ and MoarVM/?
16:21 timotimo because when i use the makefile from star's build tools with --version=daily, they are missing
16:24 timotimo hello KotH
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16:26 hoelzro oh, I forgot the release was today
16:26 hoelzro \o/
16:27 FROGGS hoelzro: and there is no stdlib.so that we can load which exposes these symbols?
16:27 hoelzro FROGGS: in the case of basic_string, there are no symbols
16:27 [Coke] timotimo: step 3 in the star release guide, I think.
16:27 Possum joined #perl6
16:27 hoelzro it's all in the headers
16:28 FROGGS timotimo: are you able to upload moarvm release tarballs to moarvm.org?
16:29 domidumont joined #perl6
16:30 FROGGS I'll start cutting the moarvm release in about 1.5 hours
16:32 [Coke] FROGGS: ping me if you need me to do the macports step, no worries.
16:32 FROGGS [Coke]: k
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16:48 timotimo no
16:55 jepeway joined #perl6
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17:23 andreoss can i return a path to a existing file without declaring a subset?
17:26 FROGGS andreoss: you want a constraint on the return value?
17:26 TimToady or do you just want a bareword like in Perl 5?
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17:27 TimToady the question is hard to understand...
17:28 andreoss sub xxx($a) returns -> $x { $x.IO.e } { ... }
17:28 andreoss anonymous subset may be?
17:30 vendethiel sub xxx($a where *.IO.e) {} ?
17:30 TimToady you want a type that matches only existing files?
17:30 vendethiel or subset File of Str where *.IO.e;
17:36 andreoss i know that having a subset for that will work
17:36 vendethiel I gave you another solution with "where", isn't it good?
17:36 andreoss but are there other ways to put a constaing on returning value?
17:37 andreoss vendethiel: i believe it will be applied to an argument, not to value this sub returns
17:37 vendethiel aah
17:38 FROGGS it is like he wants that:
17:38 FROGGS std: sub foo($a --> IO::Path where *.e) { }
17:38 camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Multiple prefix constraints not yet supported at /tmp/WRPNGh9JRA line 1:␤------> 3sub foo($a --> IO::Path where *.e7⏏5) { }␤Potential difficulties:␤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/WRPNGh9JRA line 1:␤------> 3sub foo(7⏏…»
17:38 FROGGS TimToady: would that be possible?
17:39 skids I could see that being useful for type calculus, but the error messages are going to be LTA for application-specific purposes versus checking in the function itself.
17:40 TimToady that would just mean you throw an exception if it doesn't match
17:40 vendethiel maybe use POST?
17:40 TimToady likewise
17:41 Ven joined #perl6
17:46 andreoss m: proto xxx(|) {  * ; say "hi "}; multi xxx(1) { say 1 }; xxx(1);
17:46 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«hi ␤»
17:47 andreoss can i have real code inside proto?
17:47 tony-o_ did Proc::Async.start[...] .status.exitcode get moved?
17:47 tony-o_ andreoss: yes
17:47 TimToady use {*} inside, not *
17:48 TimToady m: proto xxx(|) { {*} ; say "hi "}; multi xxx(1) { say 1 }; xxx(1);
17:48 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«1␤hi ␤»
17:48 tony-o_ m: sub x(Str $d) { my proto p { 'p'.say; } EVAL $d; }; x("d()"); d();
17:48 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/sr2c1ikust␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at /tmp/sr2c1ikust:1␤------> 3sub x(Str $d) { my proto p { 'p'.say; }7⏏5 EVAL $d; }; x("d()"); d();␤    expecting any of:␤      …»
17:48 tony-o_ m: sub x(Str $d) { my proto p { 'p'.say; }; EVAL $d; }; x("d()"); d();
17:48 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/usj6VA8l3a␤Undeclared routine:␤    d used at line 1␤␤»
17:48 tony-o_ m: sub x(Str $d) { my proto p { 'p'.say; }; EVAL $d; }; x("d()");
17:48 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling EVAL_0␤Undeclared routine:␤    d used at line 1␤␤»
17:49 tony-o_ m: sub x(Str $d) { my proto p { 'p'.say; }; EVAL $d; }; x("p()");
17:49 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«p␤»
17:49 tony-o_ m: sub x(Str $d) { my proto p { 'p'.say; }; EVAL $d; }; x("p()"); p()
17:49 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/8627h_v8UA␤Undeclared routine:␤    p used at line 1␤␤»
17:50 andreoss m: proto foo(|) { say "multi returns " ~ {*}; } ; multi foo(1) { "path" }; foo(1)
17:50 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«multi returns path␤»
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17:59 brrt \o
18:01 brrt out of interest; tomorrow i'll be 'representing' perl6 on a python conference
18:01 brrt that is to say, wearing my perl6 badge :-)
18:02 TimToady ask them how we can get uptake for our new version :P
18:02 brrt lol
18:02 brrt yeah, i'' do that
18:04 Ven Writing a long commit message always gives me that good-work feel.
18:05 * brrt wonders just how much of our 'professional work ethic' comes down to just such feelings
18:05 Ven "was I a good boy?" :P
18:07 andreoss m: class Y { multi method BUILD(:$a, :$b) {say $b}; multi method BUILD(:$a) { say $a} } ; Y.new( a => 1).say;
18:07 camelia rakudo-moar 7adde5: OUTPUT«(Any)␤Y.new␤»
18:09 isBEKaml Ven: I think that has more to do with "Look how much I got done!" :-)
18:09 Ven :P
18:09 Ven I think a big part of it is also the feeling you've saved your future self a lot of work, brrt
18:09 brrt oh, probably, yes
18:09 brrt whether that is actually true, i don't know
18:11 brrt but we're emotional creatures, and if there are things we can do to optimize our happiness in our work, why not
18:11 Ven -Ofun, right? :)
18:11 isBEKaml Ven: The only reason I write long and descriptive commits is, I bundle a *lot* files into a single commit. Like say, one commit per feature(or a changeset). So, you really have to summarize them for sane reading through the logs (later audits or bug hunt)
18:12 Ven isBEKaml: since I've switched to emacs(with evil-mode, obviously), using magit, I realized I was much more prone to splitting my commits and writing nice messages due to the tools being available (interactive committing to only take the changes I'm interested in, say)
18:13 isBEKaml Ven: unfortunately, we're still on svn
18:13 Ven aw :(
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18:15 isBEKaml Ven: a lot of commits on svn isn't a very good indicator of productivity, compared to git. I'd attribute that to how you can manipulate your local history while still preserving your files.
18:16 brrt now that i think of it, i definitely see the value of a proper commit log, especially in 'production' software that you haven't written all by yourself
18:16 brrt as in
18:16 brrt commit: 'Fixed the FooBar' isn't always really helpful
18:17 isBEKaml Ven: so, on svn - having a lot of successive commits is like "so you wasted so much time writing this feature and you had lots of commits to prove you were fighting the code?" sounds like management-speak, but really - there's some truth in it
18:17 Ven I see.
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18:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 2172535 | (Steve Mynott)++ | / (3 files):
18:46 dalek rakudo/nom: three minor typos
18:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2172535347
18:46 dalek rakudo/nom: b865609 | lizmat++ | / (3 files):
18:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge pull request #433 from stmuk/nom
18:46 dalek rakudo/nom:
18:46 dalek rakudo/nom: three minor typos
18:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b865609cf1
18:49 lizmat argh, I just realized I'm 45 minutes past FROGGS release window, instead of 15 minutes before
18:49 yoleaux 13:18Z <DrForr> lizmat: #125226 was my own fault, the 'please close this bug' message never made it, apparently.
18:50 lizmat FROGGS: sorry, please revert / ignore if too much trouble
18:50 FROGGS lizmat: no problem
18:50 FROGGS lizmat: I'm not that far yet
18:50 lizmat *phew*
18:50 FROGGS :o)
18:50 lizmat FROGGS++
18:51 * lizmat is going to do a JVM build and spectest to atone
18:51 FROGGS I might even do the release tomorrow when jnthn does not pup up to upload the moarvm tarball
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18:55 PerlJam does the moarvm tarball *need* to be there first?  Aren't most people going to come at it from the other end?
18:55 PerlJam (Or do we anticipate that packagers (rpm, deb, whatever) are using the tarballs to make their packages?)
18:56 timotimo hum?
19:02 FROGGS PerlJam: basically the star repo needs the tarball, and rakudo/rakudobrew fetches from git
19:02 FROGGS though, I don't like the idea of doing a partial release...
19:02 FROGGS we can wait a day without doing any harm
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19:03 PerlJam ah. okay
19:18 * lizmat is investigating breakage in t/01-sanity/54-use-lib.t
19:18 lizmat on the JVM
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: c006cd1 | FROGGS++ | / (3 files):
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: replace 'is inlined' trait by HAS scope declarator
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: Attributes in CStructs and CUnions can specify whether they are 'embedded'
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: into the surrouning structure or referenced. To say the former one will now
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: be able to use the 'HAS' keyword, to do the latter one uses 'has' as usual.
19:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c006cd1ad5
19:20 FROGGS lizmat: yes, that's also on my list
19:21 FROGGS TimToady: you can HAS HAS now :o)
19:21 Ven joined #perl6
19:23 FROGGS I::P5 keeps working, nice
19:24 FROGGS also the P5 integration tests pass, like they did
19:24 timotimo i don't quite understand the logic behind has vs HAS
19:24 timotimo is HAS a recronym? :)
19:25 FROGGS timotimo: I just know that it was a long discussion, and that jnthn and TimToady agreed on it
19:25 FROGGS no
19:25 FROGGS it probably just means: I REALLY REALLY HAVE IT
19:25 timotimo :D
19:25 timotimo do we warn or err on things that make no sense to HAS?
19:25 FROGGS no
19:26 timotimo do you see a way to do it? if so, you could tell me to do it and i'll try my best
19:26 timotimo like, only allow HAS inside CStruct and CUnion REPR'd classes?
19:26 FROGGS I dunno if I get my hands on the repr at that time
19:26 Ven joined #perl6
19:26 timotimo is moar's release already cut?
19:26 FROGGS timotimo: you can try to call .package.repr on $attr
19:26 timotimo if not, we could throw inside P6Opaque's compose reprop
19:27 * timotimo pulls things
19:27 FROGGS nah, let's do it as early as we can, in NativeCall.pm
19:27 timotimo agreed
19:27 timotimo HAS is declared in NativeCall?
19:28 * timotimo looks at the commit
19:28 timotimo oh, i get it
19:28 timotimo HAS gets slang'd into our main language by use-ing NativeCall
19:28 timotimo i like that
19:28 dalek roast: a30ffc1 | usev6++ | S (2 files):
19:28 dalek roast: Change test for 'NaN ** 0'
19:28 dalek roast:
19:28 dalek roast: ... fixes RT #124450
19:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a30ffc1ed0
19:29 FROGGS timotimo: I don't want to pollute Perl6::Grammar directly
19:29 timotimo aye
19:31 tony-o_ does nqp::readfh read nothing from STDIN until it's closed?
19:33 tony-o_ nvm - might be a problem with it in this start block
19:34 timotimo FROGGS: yes, i can get the repr there
19:34 timotimo the only ones acceptable are CStruct and CRepr?
19:34 dalek rakudo/nom: 83f09e0 | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
19:34 dalek rakudo/nom: Make sure @?INC strings are properly ro
19:34 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/83f09e0177
19:35 FROGGS timotimo: that are the only ones it is implemented for
19:35 FROGGS so, yes
19:35 timotimo so ... die or warn?
19:35 FROGGS die
19:35 timotimo k
19:35 timotimo X::NYI?
19:35 FROGGS hmmm, no, that might be misleading
19:35 FROGGS or.. maybe yes
19:36 FROGGS yes, NYI might make sense
19:37 FROGGS t/spec/S32-exceptions/misc.rakudo.moar                      (Wstat: 0 Tests: 305 Failed: 1)
19:37 FROGGS Failed test:  304
19:37 FROGGS Parse errors: Tests out of sequence.  Found (1) but expected (187)
19:38 FROGGS does somebody else get that too?
19:38 lizmat regularly, usually for a single file in the spectest
19:39 lizmat lemme check again
19:39 tony-o_ m: my $p = Proc::Async.new("perl6", "-e", "await start \{ $*IN.read(1).say; \};"); my $r = $p.start; $p.write("0".encode); await $r;
19:39 camelia rakudo-moar b86560: OUTPUT«Cannot use a Buf as a string, but you called the Stringy method on it␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/t1CrH1Kiyd:1␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/t1CrH1Kiyd:1␤␤»
19:40 FROGGS I got this in the run before too, same file, saying Found (2) but expected (187) or so
19:40 lizmat FROGGS: I get utter fails on JVM for nativecall tests now
19:40 tony-o_ m: my $p = Proc::Async.new("perl6", "-e", 'await start { $*IN.read(1).say; };'); my $r = $p.start; $p.write("0".encode); awa[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[C[Cit $r;
19:40 camelia rakudo-moar b86560: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/hZez1ZzdO1â�¤Bogus postfixâ�¤at /tmp/hZez1ZzdO1:1â�¤------> 3$r = $p.start; $p.write("0".encode); awa7â��5â�¤    expecting any of:â�¤        infixâ�¤        infix stopperâ�¤        statement endâ�¤        â€¦Â»
19:40 lizmat $ perl6-j t/04-nativecall/01-argless.t
19:40 lizmat ===SORRY!===
19:40 lizmat No such method 'AT-KEY' for invocant of type 'BOOTHash'
19:41 tony-o_ m: my $p = Proc::Async.new("perl6", "-e", 'await start { $*IN.read(1).say; };'); my $r = $p.start; $p.write("0".encode); await $r;
19:41 camelia rakudo-moar b86560: OUTPUT«Proc::Async is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:1␤  in method new at src/RESTRICTED.setting:32␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/owVrAL9SPU:1␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/owVrAL9SPU:1␤␤»
19:41 FROGGS k, I'll investigate
19:42 itz_ some interesting Bailador failures
19:44 dalek perl6-roast-data: 8af83e5 | coke++ | / (9 files):
19:44 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:44 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/8af83e5522
19:48 timotimo FROGGS: so what exception type do we want?
19:48 FROGGS timotimo: X::NYI is fine
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: c00dded | lizmat++ | t/01-sanity/54-use-lib.t:
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Handle different reporting on different backends
19:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c00dded0eb
19:49 timotimo couldn't find a good one
19:49 timotimo OK
19:49 timotimo though P6opaque will never get HAS, for example
19:50 timotimo i'd almost use AdHoc instead
19:50 FROGGS well, go ahead
19:50 FROGGS I'm fine with that too
19:50 lizmat FROGGS: the 54-use-lib.t on jvm is fixed now
19:50 FROGGS lizmat++
19:50 FROGGS awesome
19:50 lizmat timotimo: which would be just "die", right ?
19:50 timotimo yes
19:51 lizmat FROGGS: more bad news?
19:51 lizmat perl6-j t/03-jvm/01-interop.t
19:51 lizmat ===SORRY!===
19:51 lizmat Can not call method 'orig' on a null object
19:51 lizmat ah, it's in World.DEPRECATED
19:52 lizmat looking at that one now as well
19:52 FROGGS yeah, that one is new
19:52 tony-o_ submitted a bug for that proc async thing
19:52 [Coke] roast a30ffc1 - we have the same NaN test in two different files. let's kill one of them?
19:52 dolmen joined #perl6
19:52 FROGGS tony-o_++
19:53 lizmat seems it is caused by use java::lang::String:from<java>;
19:53 lizmat I did change that the otther day
19:53 tony-o_ it happens with channels and sockets too
19:53 brrt joined #perl6
19:56 timotimo i'll go with a regular X::AdHoc for now
19:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 36a6de1 | FROGGS++ | lib/NativeCall.pm:
19:57 dalek rakudo/nom: fix accessing %*LANG<MAIN> on jvm
19:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/36a6de1bb8
19:58 FROGGS lizmat: nativecall tests are clean now
19:58 timotimo Can only use HAS on classes with repr CStruct or CUnion, not CUnion
19:58 timotimo ;(
19:58 FROGGS O.o
19:58 FROGGS that's... unfortunate
19:59 FROGGS how do you check it?
19:59 FROGGS and it should mention that it was applied on attributes..
19:59 timotimo perl6 -e 'use NativeCall; class Foo is repr<CUnion> { HAS $.foo }'
20:00 timotimo right
20:00 timotimo if $attr.package.REPR ne 'CStruct' || $attr.package.REPR ne 'CUnion' {
20:00 timotimo die "Can only use HAS on classes with repr CStruct or CUnion, not " ~ $attr.package.REPR;
20:00 timotimo }
20:00 FROGGS Can only declare HAS scoped attributes in classes of repr CStruct and CUnion
20:00 FROGGS s/||/&&/
20:00 timotimo wait
20:00 timotimo that... yes
20:00 FROGGS :P
20:01 FROGGS how you such mistake? :D
20:01 FROGGS this thinko can bring down entire servers
20:01 timotimo distracted
20:01 salv0 joined #perl6
20:02 timotimo one of my hands has been monopolized
20:02 FROGGS cats...
20:03 timotimo should it also warn on int and such?
20:03 FROGGS you can put attribute inside them?
20:04 timotimo hm?
20:04 FROGGS ahh, no, gotcha
20:04 timotimo use NativeCall; class Foo is repr<CUnion> { HAS num $.foo }
20:04 FROGGS it should state that this is a noop I think
20:04 FROGGS like: class Foo { has $!foo is rw }
20:04 FROGGS m: class Foo { has $!foo is rw }
20:04 camelia rakudo-moar 83f09e: OUTPUT«useless use of 'is rw' on $!foo  in any  at src/Perl6/World.nqp:2499␤»
20:05 timotimo warn, thon
20:05 timotimo then
20:05 FROGGS yes, let's do the same here
20:05 timotimo k67hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
20:06 lizmat FROGGS: feels like class Foo { has $!foo is rw } is something I broke recently, so I'll look at that if you want
20:06 FROGGS lizmat: why broke?
20:06 lizmat incorrect file/line number ?
20:07 FROGGS ahhh, yes
20:07 FROGGS did not look at that :o)
20:07 ugexe joined #perl6
20:07 lizmat the "from Java" err is caused by the deprecation message trying to show file/line number  :-(
20:07 FROGGS ohh
20:08 [Sno] joined #perl6
20:08 lizmat it did not do so before
20:08 lizmat changed that with 484e9f708812aaa82ca7f33b8
20:09 lizmat HLL::Compiler.lineof($/.orig, $/.from, :cache(1))
20:09 lizmat seems to be the offender
20:09 andreoss joined #perl6
20:09 FROGGS I can attempt to fix if you want
20:09 lizmat the above line should work if we have a $/ there, doesn't it ?
20:10 FROGGS yes
20:10 lizmat ah, but I guess we don't know for sure
20:11 FROGGS umm, we certainly have no $/ there
20:11 timotimo Using a HAS scope for an attribute typed num is useless.  in block  at lib/NativeCall.pm:478
20:11 timotimo looks good?
20:11 lizmat ok, checking for $/ then  :-)
20:11 FROGGS timotimo: sounds weird
20:11 timotimo i typed it with one hand :P
20:12 FROGGS lizmat: we cannot have $/ there, it does not get passed to the method
20:12 timotimo yeah, i'll spell it more like "useless use of"
20:12 FROGGS yeah, exactly :o)
20:12 lizmat FROGGS:  aaahhh
20:12 timotimo Useless use of HAS scope on an attribute with type num.  in block  at lib/NativeCall.pm:478
20:13 FROGGS timotimo: it is good enough for me, but you know, me English is not the best :o)
20:13 timotimo :)
20:13 timotimo you're not the best english, are you?
20:14 FROGGS lizmat: I think I know of a patch
20:14 lizmat FROGGS: me too, working on it  :-)
20:14 dalek rakudo/nom: 65aaeec | timotimo++ | lib/NativeCall.pm:
20:14 dalek rakudo/nom: some checks for HAS for reprs and types
20:14 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/65aaeec18e
20:15 chansen_ joined #perl6
20:21 timotimo i hope this is satisfactory
20:22 FROGGS timotimo++ # it is :o)
20:22 andreoss does BUILDALL call ordinary BUILD with callsame?
20:23 timotimo let me see
20:23 timotimo it does not
20:24 timotimo it doesn't pass on the @autovivs parameter, so it calls with (self, |%attrinit) instead
20:24 andreoss so BUILDALL won't work with multiple BUILDs
20:24 dalek rakudo/nom: 498ce69 | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
20:24 dalek rakudo/nom: Handle java deprecation message properly
20:24 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/498ce696b3
20:26 andreoss timotimo: ?
20:28 brrt no i don't believe that's right
20:28 brrt BUILD is a submethod iirc
20:29 brrt BUILDALL is a method
20:29 timotimo BUILDALL explicitly works with multiple BUILDs
20:29 FROGGS lizmat: that's exactly what I would have done :o)
20:29 brrt http://doc.perl6.org/language​/objects#Object_Construction explains it well enough :-)
20:30 lizmat FROGGS:  hehe
20:30 lizmat FROGGS: btw, make test is now clean for me on JVM
20:30 PerlJam Unless my ack-fu is weak, BUILDALL doesn't appear in the synopses.
20:30 timotimo that's right, BUILDALL is a method in Mu that doesn't get replaced very often
20:30 * FROGGS still rebuilds
20:31 * lizmat was glad hearing the new MacBook Pro was out
20:31 * lizmat was sad to see there was no change in CPU options  :-(
20:32 FROGGS lizmat: what type of change were you hoping for?
20:32 lizmat 20% faster CPU
20:32 FROGGS ahh
20:32 tony-o_ lizmat i'm pretty not happy with the imac i just bought but i'm out of the 14 day window
20:32 brrt lizmat: buy an wintel machine, install linux, be happy ;-)
20:33 tony-o_ my 3 year old macbook pro is still faster/smoother
20:33 lizmat brrt: and the wintels have faster CPU's ?
20:33 timotimo lizmat: on wintels you can freely choose your CPU :)
20:33 brrt some do :-)
20:33 timotimo well, not necessarily on a laptop
20:33 lizmat at home we're a mixed Mac / Wintel->Linux place
20:34 timotimo there's probably no laptop with a i7 5960X :)
20:34 lizmat and I hear myself screaming a lot less at my machine and rebooting a lot less than the Linux user in this house
20:35 PerlJam lizmat: that might be a function of the user rather than the OS :)
20:35 brrt apple website says just '2.7Ghz quad core i7
20:35 timotimo PerlJam: to be fair, linux has its nooks and crannies that can drive you up the wall
20:35 lizmat true, and I *am* going deaf, so there may be other factors involved
20:35 lizmat anyway, it's not a good example for me  :-)
20:35 * geekosaur reboots linux and os x about as often. linux would be less often if it weren't limited to 4GB RAM (and hosted under OS X...)
20:35 lizmat brrt: there's a 2.9Ghz i7 option
20:35 PerlJam timotimo: indeed.  Graphics cards always seem to be hit-or-miss with me on linux
20:36 brrt which would be which model exactly?
20:36 andreoss can't have proto on BUILD?
20:36 timotimo graphics cards? i've had very little issue with my nvidia cards and the intel integrated gpus for a long time now
20:36 timotimo the intel integrated gpus have superb drivers and feature sets, but they are not exactly powerful
20:36 lizmat (hmmm.. I meant 2.8Ghz i7 option)
20:37 skids timotimo: no surprise there it's the ATIs that kill you.
20:37 andreoss m: class Y { proto submethod BUILD(|) { {*} } ; multi submethod BUILD($a) {} }
20:37 camelia rakudo-moar 36a6de: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Package 'Y' already has a Method 'BUILD' (did you mean to declare a multi-method?)␤»
20:37 lizmat which is what I have noew already
20:37 timotimo i've stayed away from ati for a long time
20:37 timotimo i'm not sure i ever had an ati at all
20:37 skids I went through a phase of wanting to like them.  It wore off after repeated exposure.
20:38 lizmat afk for a bit&
20:38 brrt see you
20:38 jercos I haven't had good luck with ATi cards, but my AMD cards have always been fine on Linux.
20:39 brrt (i still have failed to actually use the GPU now that I have a real one)
20:39 timotimo AMD has the superior open source driver scheme; has for at least 2 years i believe
20:42 andreoss i'm trying to call BUILD explicitly from BUILDALL, but hash with arguments seems to have keys in random order so the signatures don't match.
20:42 skids Maybe, but every radeon I've used has had issues with bus timing or overheat.  There always was an excuse why some part of the hardware could not be openly documented, and the result was always instability.
20:43 skids I'm on Intel now and won;t even look at anything else until I want a gaming system again.
20:43 brrt (i can't imagine wanting >2,8Ghz on a laptop though :-))
20:43 timotimo ah. i want to do a bit of gaming every now and then - also some game development hopefully at some point ;)
20:44 skids I'll be jumping back in with pure-linux steamboxen eventually.  Probably nvidia.
20:44 brrt i'm sooo avoiding homework today :-)
20:45 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
20:45 dolmen joined #perl6
20:45 brrt nouveau driver works wel enough, it seems, but the optimus / bumblebee stuff doesn't work at al
20:45 brrt courtesy of **** selinux
20:45 timotimo aaw
20:45 timotimo well, modern GPUs and security is kind of mutually exclusive anyway
20:47 brrt have i not root for this machine?
20:47 brrt in selinux lands, machine has root of you
20:48 FROGGS lizmat: I can confirm that 'make test' is clean on jvm and moar
20:49 lizmat :-)
20:49 FROGGS I am finishing going through all commits of the month and update the changelog and will then rest a bit
20:50 brrt ok, i'm going to poll a bit bigger; who thinks it'd be fun/interesting if i did a talk on JIT compilation at YAPC::EU?
20:50 FROGGS +1
20:50 FROGGS that will attract ppl I think
20:50 PerlJam brrt: I'm not going to be at YAPC::EU, but I would look forward to the video of your talk  :)
20:51 brrt ah well. then i'll just propose something :-)
20:52 lizmat FROGGS: t/04-nativecall/02-simple-args.t still has 2 fails for me on Moar
20:52 FROGGS lizmat: yes, I looked at that today but I cannot sport anything wrong...
20:52 lizmat so it's only on OS X ?
20:53 FROGGS given it works on 32/64bit linux and 32/64bit windows
20:53 FROGGS yeah
20:53 FROGGS seems like
20:53 FROGGS perhaps any BSD
20:53 FROGGS I can test that on an openbsd in a bit
20:55 lizmat FROGGS: in CompileTestLib, there's a if $VM.name eq 'parrot'
20:56 lizmat I guess it doesn't hurt to keep it?
20:56 FROGGS you can remove it if you want
20:57 FROGGS today I doubt that there will be volunteers that revive parrot
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 1d803b8 | lizmat++ | t/04-nativecall/CompileTestLib.pm:
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove some more feathers
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1d803b84f6
20:59 lizmat FROGGS: looks like x is -2 inside TakeUint8 / TakeUint16
21:01 brrt re:talk, 20 minutes or 50?
21:01 PerlJam brrt: if you can fill 50 minutes, do it!  :)
21:01 lizmat FROGGS: sorry, that seems  wrong
21:01 FROGGS lizmat: yes, I expected that it somehow messes up unsigned vs signed
21:01 lizmat when I add a "printf("x = %d\n",x);"
21:02 lizmat I get 254 and 65534 respectively
21:02 FROGGS but that would be correct
21:02 brrt hmm, there is plenty to talk about for 50 minutes or longer; but that also moves up the level of detail
21:03 lizmat FROGGS: indeed, so the check seems the problem
21:03 FROGGS there is no clang warning?
21:03 brrt also, now we're on the topic of hardware. i'm looking for a new phone. budget at most E150, preferably android or firefox phone or something like that
21:03 lizmat not that I can see
21:04 FROGGS what about changing it to: if ((unsigned char)x == (unsigned char)0xFE)
21:04 lizmat will try
21:05 FROGGS tests are clean on openbsd fwiw
21:06 lizmat nope, no difference
21:06 tony-o_ firefox phone looked like it had the right idea
21:06 tony-o_ shame it was laggy like android
21:08 itz_ there are cheap chinese android phones but a 2nd hand Nexus 4 or similar might have more cyanogenmod etc support
21:08 FROGGS lizmat: stackoverflow says we need to cast both to unsigned int... can you try that?
21:09 lizmat trying
21:09 lizmat nah  :-(
21:09 FROGGS hmpf
21:11 lizmat if I put a 'printf("x = %d = %d\n",x,0xFE);'
21:11 lizmat I get: x = 254 = 254
21:11 tony-o_ the nexus 4 with cyanogenmod is pretty nice itz_ brrt
21:11 brrt firefox phone looks like it's unavailable
21:12 andreoss m: my $x = ''; say so $x.IO.e;
21:12 camelia rakudo-moar 498ce6: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:12 FROGGS brrt: do you know why this check fails?
21:12 FROGGS brrt: this https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/n​om/t/04-nativecall/02-simple-args.c#L80
21:12 itz_ you could be the one person to get a ubuntu phone :)
21:13 lizmat andreoss: looks like "" refers to the current dir
21:13 spider-mario joined #perl6
21:13 brrt FROGGS - frankly i haven't seen that yet :-) i will see
21:13 lizmat m: say "".IO
21:13 camelia rakudo-moar 498ce6: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia".IO␤»
21:14 geekosaur unix used to do that, posix made it explicitly illegal
21:14 andreoss m:  say "".IO leg $*CWD
21:14 camelia rakudo-moar 498ce6: OUTPUT«Less␤»
21:14 brrt 0xfe is 254 right
21:14 FROGGS m: say 0xfe == 254
21:14 camelia rakudo-moar 498ce6: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:15 timotimo i wonder why there's no 0d for decimal?
21:15 lizmat m: say "".IO.Str; say $*CWD.Str  # andreoss
21:15 camelia rakudo-moar 498ce6: OUTPUT«␤/home/camelia␤»
21:15 FROGGS m: say 0d42
21:15 camelia rakudo-moar 498ce6: OUTPUT«42␤»
21:15 FROGGS timotimo: ^^
21:15 brrt FROGGS - i can imagine a bunch of things, really
21:16 brrt i'd need gdb to figure it out
21:16 FROGGS hmmm, I an do that too
21:16 timotimo oh
21:16 FROGGS ohh no, I cant
21:16 timotimo neat!
21:16 FROGGS it is osx specific :/
21:16 brrt hmm
21:16 lizmat FROGGS: well, clang specific, I would guess
21:16 brrt i can't check further then, today
21:17 brrt clang moarvm does it? that's interesting
21:17 brrt but i'm afk for now
21:18 lizmat FROGGS: FWIW, I've run both clang calls manually, and there are no warnings of any kind
21:18 lizmat clang -c  -o 02-simple-args.o -fno-omit-frame-pointer -fno-optimize-sibling-calls -O3 -DNDEBUG  -D_DARWIN_USE_64_BIT_INODE=1  t/04-nativecall/02-simple-args.c
21:18 lizmat clang -dynamiclib  -O3 -DNDEBUG -Wl,-rpath,/Users/liz/Gith​ub/rakudo.moar/install/lib -Wl,-rpath,/Users/liz/Github/rakudo​.moar/install/share/perl6/site/lib -lpthread -o 02-simple-args.dylib 02-simple-args.o
21:18 lizmat are you seeing anything funny with that ?
21:19 FROGGS well, only -O3
21:19 FROGGS but, I'm just guessing wildly
21:19 lizmat yeah, that was just what I was trying to remove  :-)
21:21 andreoss m: say shell "echo 1 2>/dev/null";
21:21 camelia rakudo-moar 1d803b: OUTPUT«shell is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:1␤  in sub shell at src/RESTRICTED.setting:15␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/MkomvNJk6M:1␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/MkomvNJk6M:1␤␤»
21:23 lizmat FROGGS: removing -O3 makes it pass
21:24 lizmat also fails with -O2 and -O1
21:24 FROGGS hmmmm, so we need to change the default in moar until we know what e.... ewww
21:24 lizmat so, shall I just remove the -O3 for all ?
21:25 FROGGS that is passed from moar's config
21:25 lizmat well, I could add a named param :noopt to compile_test_lib and pass that in the case of OS X for that file ?
21:26 FROGGS no, let us skip these tests instead
21:26 lizmat skip?
21:27 lizmat not todo ?
21:27 lizmat ah yes, skip
21:27 tadzik FROGGS: I won't be able to fix aything for.the.next few weeks, I'm far away from any computer of mine :)
21:27 yoleaux 13:34Z <FROGGS> tadzik: 1) please add curlies to package decls to File::Find, Shell::Command and JSON::Tiny
21:27 yoleaux 13:34Z <FROGGS> tadzik: 2) the 'build reverse deps feature' builds reverse deps of not yet installed modules, but it does not install their deps
21:28 FROGGS tadzik: bah
21:28 FROGGS tadzik: give me a commit bit then :o)
21:29 lizmat FROGGS: I can merge some pull requests
21:29 FROGGS lizmat: for File::Find, Shell::Command and JSON::Tiny?
21:29 tadzik oh, I can do that :)
21:29 lizmat just did Shell::Command
21:29 FROGGS ahh, cool
21:29 lizmat itz already did some PR's
21:30 FROGGS tadzik: but I'd take commit bits anyway :o)
21:30 lizmat FROGGS: skipping the test would mean commenting them out, as there is no fudging in 'make test', right ?
21:31 cognominal joined #perl6
21:32 FROGGS lizmat: it uses Test.pm, and we can check for $*VM.compiler.backend
21:32 FROGGS m: say $*VM.compiler.backend
21:32 camelia rakudo-moar 1d803b: OUTPUT«Method 'compiler' not found for invocant of class 'VM'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/ARy_UnEhVq:1␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/ARy_UnEhVq:1␤␤»
21:32 FROGGS m: say $*PERL.compiler.backend
21:32 camelia rakudo-moar 1d803b: OUTPUT«Method 'backend' not found for invocant of class 'Compiler'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/iO3Gv58Glj:1␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/iO3Gv58Glj:1␤␤»
21:32 FROGGS m: say $*PERL.compiler.^methods
21:32 camelia rakudo-moar 1d803b: OUTPUT«BUILD Str gist <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon>␤»
21:32 FROGGS m: say $*PERL.compiler
21:32 camelia rakudo-moar 1d803b: OUTPUT«rakudo (2015.4.353.g.1.d.803.b.8)␤»
21:32 FROGGS m: say $*PERL.backend
21:32 camelia rakudo-moar 1d803b: OUTPUT«Method 'backend' not found for invocant of class 'Perl'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/539aTddq69:1␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/539aTddq69:1␤␤»
21:32 FROGGS hmpf
21:32 lizmat say $*KERNEL.name
21:32 lizmat m: say $*KERNEL.name
21:32 camelia rakudo-moar 1d803b: OUTPUT«linux␤»
21:33 lizmat ?
21:33 lizmat $ 6 'say $*DISTRO.name'
21:33 lizmat macosx
21:33 lizmat perhaps ?
21:33 FROGGS yes, that will do too
21:36 dalek rakudo/nom: 2b08d6f | lizmat++ | t/04-nativecall/02-simple-args.t:
21:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Skip 0xFE/0xFFFE tests on OS X
21:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2b08d6f0fa
21:37 ugexe m: role BB { method ok { ... }; method ok2 { 2 } }; class AA does BB { method ok { 1 } }; my $c = AA.new; say $c.ok; say $c.ok2; say $c.^roles; # role introspection bug?
21:37 camelia rakudo-moar 1d803b: OUTPUT«1␤2␤Method 'ok' must be implemented by BB because it is required by a role␤  in any compose_method_table at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2606␤  in any apply at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2616␤  in any compose at src/gen/m-Metamodel.nqp:2752␤  in any ma…»
21:37 lizmat hmmm... t/04-nativecall/13-union.t just flapped on me
21:37 lizmat FROGGS: otherwise, make test is now clean for me as well on moar
21:38 FROGGS nice :o)
21:38 FROGGS eww, flapped?
21:39 lizmat yeah: t/04-nativecall/13-union.t         (Wstat: 65280 Tests: 26 Failed: 0)
21:39 lizmat Non-zero exit status: 255
21:39 lizmat Parse errors: Bad plan.  You planned 28 tests but ran 26.
21:40 FROGGS phew, have now 114 changelog lines I need to add and dedup/rephrase
21:41 lizmat well, I hope it is less work collecting all of the 114 in the first place ?
21:41 FROGGS no, took a while
21:42 FROGGS will get some rest now...
21:42 FROGGS gnight lizmat
21:43 timotimo good night froggs :)
21:44 lizmat gnight FROGGS
21:52 cognominal joined #perl6
22:04 lizmat good night, #perl6!
22:06 vendethiel joined #perl6
22:09 timotimo gnite lizmat :)
22:12 andreoss what the difference between "<->" and "->"?
22:12 andreoss *is between
22:13 timotimo <-> makes the parameter "is rw"
22:13 timotimo my @a = 1, 2, 3; for @a <-> $_ { $_ += 5 }; say @a
22:13 timotimo m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; for @a <-> $_ { $_ += 5 }; say @a
22:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2b08d6: OUTPUT«6 7 8␤»
22:13 timotimo m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; for @a -> $_ { $_ += 5 }; say @a
22:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2b08d6: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/I_BYqr_twe:1␤  in any <unit-outer> at /tmp/I_BYqr_twe:1␤␤»
22:13 timotimo note that <-> $_ is the default for for loops
22:13 timotimo m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; for @a { $_ += 5 }; say @a
22:13 camelia rakudo-moar 2b08d6: OUTPUT«6 7 8␤»
22:14 andreoss thanks
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