Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-06-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:07 skids Uladox: to do that, send a PR to the "perl6/ecosystem" module that adds the base URL to META.list.  That PR will provide a place for any feedback during the process of addng the module.
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00:12 Uladox Ok, back. Added pull request, thanks
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00:57 * skids wonders when pmichaud's talk will stop being a "live stream" which won't play, even though it is under "uploads"
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01:06 geekosaur considering how often I see that happen with supposed professionals doing it...
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01:25 gagalicious sorry discon
01:25 gagalicious why doesnt this work ... <meta name="description" content="Reliable and affordable my $d_sAT = $p->look_down( _tag => 'meta', 'name' => 'description' ); print $d_sAT->as_text; <-- using HTML::TreeBuilder;
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01:25 gagalicious wow... this fhelmberger<--- this guy should be banned
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01:26 geekosaur forward ban to ##fixyourconnection would seem a good idea
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01:27 gagalicious just ban it will be best
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01:27 gagalicious can someone ban that guy pls... it's very annoying
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01:45 flussence "/ignore #perl6 JOINS PARTS QUITS" works almost as well as the nuclear option...
01:45 tadzik Or weechat smartfilter
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01:45 tadzik It only shows those events.for people who also spoke in a small interval from the event
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02:02 dalek rakudo-star-daily: 954ec25 | coke++ | log/ (2 files):
02:02 dalek rakudo-star-daily: today (automated commit)
02:02 dalek rakudo-star-daily: review: https://github.com/coke/rakudo​-star-daily/commit/954ec257c9
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02:02 dalek perl6-roast-data: c8f6ed0 | coke++ | / (9 files):
02:02 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
02:02 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/c8f6ed0700
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02:27 Util gagalicious: It fails because the META tag has no content; nothing inbetween <META></META>, because META closes itself.
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02:28 Util It does have an attribute, that is (confusingly) called "content", but that has nothing to do with the HTML concept of Content between tag pairs.
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02:30 Util Try:
02:30 Util print $d_sAT->attr('content');
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02:31 Util (although, $d_sAT is no longer a appropriate name for that var)
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02:44 dalek ecosystem: 6d3122c | 'Uladox++ | META.list:
02:44 dalek ecosystem: Adds Editsrc::Uggedit to META.list
02:44 dalek ecosystem:
02:44 dalek ecosystem: Adds the Editsrc::Uggedit module to the module list. The module is, "The obvious in-source Perl6 based solution to avoid repetion in modifing text by using embedded code with your languages of choice, or just scanning using a perl6 module."
02:44 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/6d3122c264
02:44 dalek ecosystem: cd4614c | (David Warring)++ | META.list:
02:44 dalek ecosystem: Merge pull request #47 from Uladox/master
02:44 dalek ecosystem:
02:44 dalek ecosystem: Adds Editsrc::Uggedit to META.list
02:44 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/cd4614cd4b
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03:31 hoelzro .tell FROGGS I've started some panda work using openpipe3 so the smoker can tell output from warnings: https://github.com/hoelzro/pan​da/tree/dont-cross-the-streams
03:31 yoleaux hoelzro: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
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03:58 lizmat Q: did we lose .graphs as a method or not? if we did, there appear quite a number of fossils then in the spec
03:58 lizmat socializing again&
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04:07 JimmyZ https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/6d3122c264  # this is wrongish...
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04:25 zostay m: $h = open('test', :w); $h.print("test\n"); $h.open('test', :r, :bin); $h.get.say;
04:25 camelia rakudo-moar 228168: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/RuxFDxHI_i␤Variable '$h' is not declared␤at /tmp/RuxFDxHI_i:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5$h = open('test', :w); $h.print("test\n"␤»
04:25 zostay m: my $h = open('test', :w); $h.print("test\n"); $h.open('test', :r, :bin); $h.get.say;
04:25 camelia rakudo-moar 228168: OUTPUT«open is disallowed in restricted setting␤  in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:1␤  in sub open at src/RESTRICTED.setting:9␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/0zUznqBjdk:1␤␤»
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04:26 zostay i note that i can open the file in :bin and then use .get to get a Str, what encoding is being used in that case to decode the bytes?
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04:27 zostay the default :enc?
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04:53 japhb zostay: As far as I can tell diving through the stack (without being super-careful about it), it looks like opening with :bin explicitly does *not* set an encoding, and if you never set an encoding but try to read a string from a file anyway, MoarVM will use utf8.
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05:08 moritz IMHO it should explode
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05:13 dalek ecosystem: 9982d6d | skids++ | META.list:
05:13 dalek ecosystem: Fix recently added URL
05:13 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/9982d6d382
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05:17 skids m: sub ud { Any }; my %b := :{ ud() => 1, Any => 2}; %b.perl.say
05:17 camelia rakudo-moar 228168: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context  in any p6sort at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:349␤Hash[Mu,Any].new(Any => 1, "Any" => 2)␤»
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06:33 RabidGravy marning
06:33 FROGGS mürning
06:33 yoleaux 03:31Z <hoelzro> FROGGS: I've started some panda work using openpipe3 so the smoker can tell output from warnings: https://github.com/hoelzro/pan​da/tree/dont-cross-the-streams
06:34 FROGGS hoelzro++ # branch name :D
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06:38 FROGGS hoelzro: can we do the following? get a line from stdout and the get a line from stderr, so that we are able to provide the merged err+out as well as the streams itself?
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06:39 tadzik I merged one of your panda PRs, the other I'd like to take a closer look at when I get back to a computer
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06:41 tadzik There's plenty of things wrong about revdep, it may need an overhaul of sorts, some of the issues are a bit connected to how panda generally does stuff
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06:43 FROGGS tadzik: I commented to the revdep PR
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06:48 tadzik I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
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06:50 moritz blue crazy pills or red crazy pills?
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06:50 moritz .oO( an R-B Tree of crazy pills )
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06:51 tadzik So far they're grey, before I get to revisit it :)
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06:56 FROGGS fhelmberger: ping
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07:07 Ven o/, #perl6
07:07 Ven https://twitter.com/puffnfre​sh/status/608026578358927360 <- I should spend some time refining sixcheck. It doesn't integrate as neatly as I'd like it to...
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07:21 cdc hello #perl6
07:21 cdc m: 0.^methods(:all).sort
07:21 camelia rakudo-moar 228168: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)Code object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that)  in any p6sort at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:349␤Code object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that)  in any p6sort at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:349␤Code …»
07:21 cdc SEGV ^
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07:23 RabidGravy nasty
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07:24 wentam So, I wrote some bindings to my graphics engine: https://github.com/wentam/P6-Graffiks
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07:24 wentam how do I get it listed on modules.perl6.org
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07:25 FROGGS wentam: create a pul request for this: https://github.com/perl6/eco​system/blob/master/META.list
07:25 FROGGS pull*
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07:26 RabidGravy cdc, looks like a stack overflow
07:26 FROGGS wentam: or you tell me your github id, and I'll add you to the perl6 team, which lets you push to the ecosystem repository directly
07:27 RabidGravy cdc, valgrind say "Access not within mapped region at address 0x0"
07:27 fhelmberger joined #perl6
07:27 wentam FROGGS, https://github.com/wentam/
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07:28 FROGGS wentam: invitation sent
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07:28 wentam FROGGS, so now I just push my meta.info to that file?
07:29 FROGGS wentam: no
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07:29 wentam I mean, the raw url to it
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07:29 FROGGS go to your repo, click on your META.info, click on raw
07:29 wentam yeah, that's what I meant
07:29 FROGGS and copy that url to the meta list
07:29 wentam alrighty, tyvm
07:29 FROGGS it should look like the others
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07:30 FROGGS wentam: are you related to retupmoca?
07:30 RabidGravy wentam, I would suggest doing "panda install ." in the source directory to check that panda understands your META.info if you didn't already do that
07:30 dalek ecosystem: 0242d1a | (Matt Egeler)++ | META.list:
07:30 dalek ecosystem: Add Graffiks bindings to META.list
07:30 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/0242d1adf8
07:31 wentam FROGGS, yes, he's my brother
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07:31 wentam https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit​/0242d1adf8177e04cafc99dbf3696ae012d4184c
07:31 wentam RabidGravy, oohh, good idea
07:31 FROGGS Egeler++ then :o)
07:31 FROGGS wentam: your META.info is invalid JSON
07:32 wentam RabidGravy, should have said that slightly earier, it doesn't work :P
07:32 FROGGS wentam: you are missing commas
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07:32 wentam oopsies
07:32 FROGGS I'll PR
07:32 wentam I already got it fixed
07:32 RabidGravy I have added one and realised I'd cocked up the META.info every time
07:33 fhelmberger joined #perl6
07:33 RabidGravy maybe a "validate-meta" command for panda at some point
07:33 FROGGS wentam++
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07:34 cdc RabidGravy: I've submitted RT #125365
07:34 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=125365
07:34 wentam I assume that modules list updates periodically, so it will appear after a while?
07:35 FROGGS wentam: every hours IIRC
07:35 FROGGS hour*
07:35 wentam rgr
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07:35 moritz I can trigger a manual rebuild
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07:36 moritz if anybody else wants to have that power, give me your ssh pubkey :-)
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07:37 moritz ok, it takes less than a minute; I guess I can run it more often
07:37 FROGGS (more often)++
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07:37 moritz 8,28,48 * * * * bash update.sh > update.log 2>&1
07:38 moritz https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ca​rbin/p6-Crypt-Reop/master/META.info 404
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07:39 dalek ecosystem: 88785dc | moritz++ | META.list:
07:39 dalek ecosystem: Remove reference to repo that has gone pining for the fjords
07:39 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/88785dc17f
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07:40 RabidGravy moritz, any value in putting a github webhook on that (to trigger the rebuild)
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07:40 moritz RabidGravy: not much; most changes are in the META.info files of the individual repos, not to the ecosystem repo itself
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07:41 RabidGravy true
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07:41 moritz RabidGravy: tough it might be nice to parallelize update.pl in the ecosystem repo a bit
07:42 moritz it does mostly https request
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07:45 RabidGravy poor fhelmberger
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07:45 RabidGravy cdc, just added the gdb and valgrind to that RT
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07:46 cdc thanks !
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08:04 breinbaas why don't you guys kick fhelmberger?  his behavior makes it difficult to follow what goes on in this chennel
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08:05 wentam It just links to the github homepage for Graffiks on the modules page, is my source-url wrong? https://github.com/wentam/P6-G​raffiks/blob/master/META.info
08:05 dalek doc: a60ba58 | RabidGravy++ | WANTED:
08:05 dalek doc: Correct the spelling of Synatax
08:05 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a60ba58bef
08:05 wentam I just used the checkout url github provides
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08:08 FROGGS wentam: click on 'raw', and use that url
08:08 FROGGS ahh wait
08:08 wentam I mean in meta.info
08:08 FROGGS misunderstood
08:08 FROGGS your source url might want to be https://github.com/wentam/Graffiks.git
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08:09 wentam I'll try it
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08:10 dalek doc: 4edf556 | RabidGravy++ | lib/Language/variables.pod:
08:10 dalek doc: Add $*SPEC to variables
08:10 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4edf556fe1
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08:11 RabidGravy I know there was a small amount of doubt expressed as to whether that should stay but if it goes it can be removed again ;-)
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08:14 dalek doc: 0f60edd | paultcochrane++ | / (2 files):
08:14 dalek doc: Document substr-rw
08:14 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0f60edd676
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08:26 jnthn morning, #perl6
08:26 fhelmberger joined #perl6
08:27 FROGGS morning jnthn
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08:28 RabidGravy erp
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08:30 wentam FROGGS, yup, adding .git to the end fixed it
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08:32 FROGGS wentam: there is a textbox on the right on this page, where you can copy from: https://github.com/wentam/Graffiks
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08:32 wentam yeah, that's "https://github.com/wentam/Graffiks"
08:33 wentam doesn't have .git on the end there
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08:34 wentam although
08:34 wentam https://github.com/wentam/P6-Graffiks/commi​t/83d1b1bf8896a11cdaad7e866936f896a99625e3
08:34 wentam that was half the problem
08:34 wentam or perhaps all of it
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08:36 dalek snake: 2a05e1b | arnsholt++ | src/Snake/Metamodel/ClassHOW.nqp:
08:36 dalek snake: Add forgotten change for previous commit.
08:36 dalek snake: review: https://github.com/arnshol​t/snake/commit/2a05e1b9f0
08:36 dalek snake: 81db926 | arnsholt++ | src/setting/builtins.py:
08:36 dalek snake: Simple first implementation of isinstance().
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08:37 arnsholt dalek: Sorry! =)
08:37 arnsholt botsnack
08:37 synbot6 om nom nom
08:37 arnsholt Oops, wrong bot. Oh well
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08:38 jnthn synbot6 noms all the snacks
08:39 jnthn .oO( Dining bots problem )
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08:44 dalek doc: b2d6863 | RabidGravy++ | lib/Type/IO/Path.pod:
08:44 dalek doc: Missing colons after invocant type in signatures
08:44 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b2d6863d2a
08:44 dalek doc: 744bf16 | RabidGravy++ | / (2 files):
08:44 dalek doc: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
08:44 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/744bf1648c
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08:45 _itz /last youtube
08:45 _itz oops
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08:47 RabidGravy _itz, are you still working at that place?
08:47 fhelmberger joined #perl6
08:48 _itz no I walked out because I wanted to do something more interesting
08:48 RabidGravy _itz++
08:48 _itz 3 years in a bank is enough :)
08:48 RabidGravy yeah 5 years ruined me
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08:50 jnthn I talked to bank recruiters at the compsci career fair some years back and 5 minutes talking to them was enough of the bank industry for me. :-)
08:50 nwc10 _itz: any plans on how to spend your ill gotten gains?
08:50 nwc10 ("CFT" ?)
08:51 nwc10 duetting with RabidGravy?
08:51 fhelmberger joined #perl6
08:51 _itz playing with perl6
08:51 [ptc] _itz++
08:51 yoleaux 8 Jun 2015 23:43Z <japhb> [ptc]: Re: specs commit 5557888, I don't think the original meant "can be aliased also", I think it meant "can be the target of an alias", so the 'to' would be correct (though I recognize it's confusing wording all around)
08:51 nwc10 yay
08:51 nwc10 "right answer" :-)
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08:52 [ptc] _itz: ok, I'll look at the wording of the specs again and see if I can make it clearer
08:53 dalek specs: 939451c | paultcochrane++ | S32-setting-library/Str.pod:
08:53 dalek specs: Add an initial string so that the code example runs
08:53 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/939451c3c1
08:53 fhelmberger joined #perl6
08:53 RabidGravy :) I can definitely say I have used my CFT more for ruining software than I have making music, I did a small drum loop for Laica last week but have significantly upped my github stats
08:54 fhelmberger joined #perl6
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08:55 RabidGravy In music/programming crossover I discussed with Robin Gareus the possibility of making silan a shared library so I can make a P6 binding
08:56 fhelmberger joined #perl6
08:57 dalek specs: b4b49fc | paultcochrane++ | S32-setting-library/Str.pod:
08:57 dalek specs: Improve wording about substr-rw aliasing
08:57 dalek specs:
08:57 dalek specs: Thanks to itz++ for pointing out the sentence's meaning.
08:57 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/b4b49fcd52
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08:57 _itz that wasn't actually me!
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09:22 [ptc] _itz: you're right, bugger.  I misread
09:22 [ptc] the line
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09:22 [ptc] ... and obviously can't type anymore
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09:23 [ptc] japhb++ # for pointing out the correct meaning about aliasing (and sorry for not mentioning you correctly in the commit!)
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09:50 RabidGravy has anyone done anything like "Alien" to assist in working with thirdparty libraries/applications that may need to be installed?
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09:56 FROGGS RabidGravy: for P5, yes
09:57 fhelmberger joined #perl6
09:57 RabidGravy er, for P6 the P5 one was what I meant by "like Alien" ;-p
09:57 RabidGravy anyway just off out for a bit
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10:15 Ven Wow. I just learned that Perl6 allowed to resume exeptions o_o
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10:16 Ven that's totally amazing. brrt++
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10:22 Ven (yes, many people will say "lisp had that 30 years ago". I'm still happy :P)
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10:40 ab6tract .tell moritz thanks for the github org invite! should I also be filling in some paperwork for TPF?
10:40 yoleaux ab6tract: I'll pass your message to moritz.
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10:42 Ven ab6tract: I think it's only for moar?
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10:44 ab6tract Ven: the paperwork?
10:44 Ven ab6tract: yes. maybe also for nqp?
10:44 jnthn The paperwork is for Rakudo
10:44 ab6tract I thought it was for all the perl6/ repos... so rakudo is not under TPF?
10:44 Ven ah, it's for rakudo
10:44 ab6tract ok, thanks for clearing up jnthn
10:44 Ven well, considering the number of PRs you sent, someone would've asked you sooner ab6tract  :P
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10:45 ab6tract Ven: having trouble parsing whether that was a jab or not :P
10:46 Ven ab6tract: not sure what a "jab" is :)
10:46 ab6tract Ven: 'diss'? 'smack talk'? not sure what the kids are calling it these days ;)
10:46 Ven ab6tract: would it be better if I had wrote ab6tract++ (as meant) there? :)
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10:47 ab6tract :)
10:47 ab6tract it's usually the :P that throws me off
10:47 ab6tract thanks for clarifying :)
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10:52 ab6tract ahh, if nothing else fhelmberger has successfully taught me how to disable part/join messages in two separate clients
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10:53 jnthn I was too lazy and just did /ignore :P
10:53 nwc10 we've *just* bothered to get ops on #austria.pm and (try to) ban it
10:54 fhelmberger joined #perl6
10:54 nwc10 if we knew where he lived...
10:55 fhelmberger joined #perl6
10:55 nwc10 OK, less than 5ms from here
10:55 nwc10 less than 1.8ms from our colo
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10:56 nwc10 actually, that's the hop before
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10:59 [ptc] nwc10: you're in .at, you could drop in and say gudday ;-)
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10:59 nwc10 [ptc]: "if we knew where he lived..."
10:59 nwc10 also, I don't want to get arrested
10:59 [ptc] true :-)
11:00 nwc10 well, I'd go round and deliver a postcard or something
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11:00 tadzik One for each join, one for each part
11:00 nwc10 [ptc]: my suspicion is that he's only a few km from me
11:01 nwc10 tadzik: my arms would fall off
11:01 [ptc] nwc10: well, .at isn't that big :-P
11:01 nwc10 reverse DNS suggests that he's in vienna
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11:01 jnthn well darn it
11:02 jnthn After that wild goose chase...it turns out that I do still have a regression thanks to my fix...and it *is* specific to the JIT
11:02 nwc10 there was a real goose at the end of your chase
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11:02 nwc10 so, seems "2 real bugs"
11:02 nwc10 1 of which is splaatted?
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11:09 jnthn Something like
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11:10 jnthn I'm guessing the JIT badly handles...something. I don't know what yet.
11:10 smls moritz: http://doc.perl6.org/type-basic.html <-- something broke?
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11:13 [ptc] smls: that problem has been around for a while now (a couple of weeks or so)
11:14 [ptc] smls: no idea what's causing it, and the issue seems to be buried deep down in how htmlify.p6 is doing its processing
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11:14 [ptc] smls: http://doc.perl6.org/type.html  still works though
11:14 smls right
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11:21 [ptc] interesting... I just turned off the JIT and now panda segfaults when bootstrapping
11:22 jnthn [ptc]: Almost certainly fixed in MoarVM HEAD
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11:24 [ptc] jnthn: I'm building with --gen-moar so thought I was using HEAD.  I'll merge the latest Rakudo HEAD and see if that helps
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11:26 jnthn [ptc]: Thta uses the MOAR_REVISION/NQP_REVISION
11:26 jnthn Which I didn't bump yet
11:27 arnsholt --gen-moar=master might work?
11:28 [ptc] you're right it's not head
11:28 [ptc] would --gen-moar=HEAD work?
11:30 jnthn What arnsholt said, I think
11:30 [ptc] just trying it with =HEAD and it pulled in master, which seems logical
11:31 [ptc] although =master is probably the better way to do it
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11:35 [ptc] thanks jnthn++, panda works again with moar HEAD and without jit
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11:36 [ptc] although DBIish still gives the "Cannot invoke null object" error with a JIT-less moar
11:37 jnthn And with JIT?
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11:38 [ptc] hang on a tick
11:38 fhelmberger joined #perl6
11:38 * [ptc] rebuilds moar/nqp/rakudo
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11:44 * Ven will present perl6 at a "in-school meetup" tomorrow
11:44 [ptc] jnthn: barfs with the same error with and without JIT
11:45 Ven task: building a "tv show episodes classifier" in perl6 (cli)
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11:50 FROGGS Ven++
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11:58 smls Perl 6 feature idea of the day: Let .deepmap and .duckmap check the callback's signature (like .sort does), and if it allows more than one argument, pass the full path of indices+value at the current iteration!
11:58 smls So that this:
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11:58 smls {foo=>[10, 20], bar => 30}.deepmap(-> *@_ { dd @_ })
11:58 smls Would print:
11:58 smls ('foo', 0, 10)
11:58 smls ('foo', 1, 20)
11:58 smls ('bar', 30)
11:59 smls Or maybe it should be controlled by a :path adverb and not the signature.
11:59 smls But in any case, I think it would be useful.
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12:03 Ven m: { my $x = "a"; say $x; die 1 if True; say $x; CATCH { default { $x++; $_.resume; } } }; say 1;
12:03 camelia rakudo-moar 228168: OUTPUT«a␤b␤1␤»
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12:08 dalek nqp: e8bb160 | jnthn++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
12:08 dalek nqp: Bump MOAR_REVISION.
12:08 dalek nqp:
12:08 dalek nqp: Gets us numerous fixes, mostly related to exceptions and optimization.
12:08 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e8bb1608be
12:08 FROGGS \o/
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12:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 2aad0b2 | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
12:09 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump NQP_REVISION for updated MoarVM.
12:09 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:09 dalek rakudo/nom: This bump includes a resolution for RT #124191.
12:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2aad0b20ac
12:09 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=124191
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12:10 dalek roast: 3b3af27 | jnthn++ | S04-exception-handlers/catch.t:
12:10 dalek roast: Test for RT #124191.
12:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3b3af27327
12:10 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=124191
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12:11 * smls is skeptical about resumable exceptions
12:11 smls Aren't they, by definition, action at a distance?
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12:13 joe6780 hello
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12:13 jnthn smls: The place you're most likely to actually take advantage of them is with warnings.
12:13 jnthn smls: Which are implemented as resumable exceptions.
12:14 jnthn lunch time &
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12:14 smls .oO( Code A: Welp, I can't continue with this state, the only safe thing is to bail out.   Code B: I don't know what things actually look like at A, but whatever, I'll just force it to continue! *evil laughter*)
12:14 Ven smls: they're in lexical scope of the "try" block
12:15 Ven do you consider exceptions action-at-a-distance? resumable exceptions have the same distance
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12:15 smls I suppose with warnings it should be safe
12:15 Ven smls: I'd recommend reading http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CommonLispConditionSystem, it's *really* interesting
12:15 smls ok
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12:18 _itz can anyone actually login to http://www.sicpdistilled.com (which looks interesting) or is the github auth broken just for me?
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12:27 sue_ I see the big green 'authorize application' button
12:27 sue_ do you get that far, or must i authorize this unknown thing to finish the test?
12:27 Ven _itz: confirm it's broken
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12:28 sue_ looks unfinished
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12:29 psch hi #perl6 o/
12:29 psch i just had to learn how to change my ssh keyfile password
12:30 fhelmberger joined #perl6
12:30 psch ...'cause having my old one in hacks login log won't do
12:30 psch that's what i get for trying to use putty i guess
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12:35 _itz thanks
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12:43 psch hm, skimming through the clog there was something about .class and .jar files from p6 programs
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12:43 psch i wonder if that's for something like standalone jar executables
12:44 psch i think i'll try and see if i get that working, anyway
12:44 psch i've been gone too long to dive right back into MOP stuff :s
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12:46 smls sub list-substract (@a, @b) { my %b := set @b; @a.grep({ !%b{$_} }) }
12:46 smls masak: ^^this is what I use for "set difference, but preserving order"
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12:48 smls Seems to be both shorter and faster than the Hash-based solutions posted to your "mini-challenge" two weeks ago, not to mention it can handle arbitrary objects.
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12:54 FROGGS hi psch
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12:55 psch hey FROGGS
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12:58 colomon sub list-substract (@a, @b) { @a.grep(* ∉ @b ) };  # shorter but probably slower
12:58 colomon m: sub list-substract (@a, @b) { @a.grep(* ∉ @b ) }; say list-subtract(<a b c>, <b d e>)  # shorter but probably slower
12:58 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/q1nrf7p5nu␤Undeclared routine:␤    list-subtract used at line 1. Did you mean 'list-substract'?␤␤»
12:59 colomon m: sub list-subtract (@a, @b) { @a.grep(* ∉ @b ) }; say list-subtract(<a b c>, <b d e>)  # shorter but probably slower
12:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«a c␤»
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13:00 Ven m: my @a = <a b c>; my @b = <b d e>; say @a (-) @b;
13:00 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«set(a, c)␤»
13:00 Ven m: my @a = <a b c>; my @b = <b d e>; say list @a (-) @b;
13:00 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«set(a, c)␤»
13:01 andreoss m: my $x = "a" x 100; say $x ~~ /a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a​?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a​?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a​?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a​?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa​aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa​aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa/
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13:01 dalek ecosystem: 915ea34 | hoelzro++ | META.list:
13:01 dalek ecosystem: Add PriorityQueue to module listing
13:01 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/915ea34e3d
13:01 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
13:02 Ven m: my $x = "a" x 100; say $x ~~ /:r a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a​?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?​a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a​?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?​a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa​aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa​aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa/
13:02 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
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13:04 andreoss Ven: but it should be "a" x 100
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13:05 Ven m: my $x = "a" x 100; say $x ~~ m:r/a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?​a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?​a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?​a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?​a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa​aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa​aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa/
13:05 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«False␤»
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13:06 JimmyZ hoelzro: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/915ea34e3d # is wrongish :P
13:06 jnthn ? is greedy, so with :r it'll never let go of the a
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13:07 andreoss https://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html
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13:08 jnthn heh, I've seen that link so many times I don't even need to follow it any more :P
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13:12 jnthn m: 0.^methods(:all).sort
13:12 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«Code object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that)  in any p6sort at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:349␤Code object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that)  in any p6sort at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:349␤Code object coerce…»
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13:12 jnthn Wonder if the SEGV on that was one of those I fixed this morning...
13:13 jnthn RabidGravy: When you get chance, please could you check if ^^ no longer SEGVs on HEAD?
13:13 jnthn Locally and on evalbot it seems fine
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13:15 moritz
13:15 yoleaux 10:40Z <ab6tract> moritz: thanks for the github org invite! should I also be filling in some paperwork for TPF?
13:16 moritz ab5tract: are you ab6tract? :-)
13:16 moritz no extra paperwork required
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13:18 RabidGravy jnthn: HEAD of rakudo? or moar?
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13:20 jnthn RabidGravy: Rakudo; I bumped MOAR_REVISION/NQP_REVISION already for the patches in questoin.
13:20 jnthn *question
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13:20 RabidGravy cool, 'ang on then
13:21 andreoss %  time perl6 -e 'my $x = "a" x 30; say $x ~~ /a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?​a?a?a?a?a?a?a?aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa/'
13:21 andreoss real6m46.970s
13:21 andreoss %  time perl -E 'my $x = "a" x 30; say $x =~ /a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?a?​a?a?a?a?a?a?a?aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa/'
13:21 andreoss real1m19.497s
13:21 andreoss
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13:21 _itz how do I link moar with -g ?
13:22 timotimo _itz: --debug=3 should put the -g into the LDFLAGS as well
13:22 timotimo in the Configure.pl invocation
13:22 _itz ah ty
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13:24 dalek ecosystem: 874a21f | (Matt Egeler)++ | META.list:
13:24 dalek ecosystem: Remove duplicate item in META.list
13:24 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/874a21f9b5
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13:32 ugexe my $sock = IO::Socket::INET.new(:host<httpbin.org>, :port(80)); $sock.send("GET /status/200 HTTP/1.1\r\nHost: httpbin.org\r\n\r\n"); $sock.input-line-separator = "\r\n\r\n"; say $sock.get().perl # input-line-separator getting tripped up? seems to do something like match the line-separator, but returns the entire line while only removing $input-line-separator.chars[*-1] instead of $input-line-separator?
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13:34 ugexe if $input-line-separator = 'TT' (to match the starting "HTTP") the first line returned is 'HT'. if $input-line-separator = 'T' the first line returned is 'H'
13:35 RabidGravy jnthn++, confirmed that no longer segfaults.  Obviously the example was bogus, but hey ;-)
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13:40 RabidGravy cdc: by the way what you really wanted was
13:41 RabidGravy m: say  0.^methods(:all).sort({ $^a.gist cmp $^b.gist })
13:41 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«ACCEPTS ACCEPTS ACCEPTS BUILDALL BUILD_LEAST_DERIVED Bool Bool Bridge CREATE Capture Complex DUMP DUMP DUMP-OBJECT-ATTRS DUMP-PIECES EVAL FOR FatRat IO Int Int Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.…»
13:41 RabidGravy with some extra thing to remove the anon methods
13:41 jnthn m: say  0.^methods(:all).sort(*.name) # or this?
13:41 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«ACCEPTS ACCEPTS ACCEPTS Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new BUILDALL BUILD_LEAST_DERIVED Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Bool Bool Bridge CREATE Capture Complex Met…»
13:42 RabidGravy or that
13:42 timotimo maybe a .unique :P
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13:43 colomon Ven: set difference is shorter, but it’s also not order preserving
13:43 PerlJam m: say  0.^methods(:all).sort(*.name).unique;
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«ACCEPTS ACCEPTS ACCEPTS Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new BUILDALL BUILD_LEAST_DERIVED Method+{<anon>}.new Method+{<anon>}.new Bool Bool Bridge CREATE Capture Complex Met…»
13:43 colomon m: sub list-subtract (@a, @b) { @a.grep(* ∉ @b ) }; say list-subtract(<c b a>, <b d e>)
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«c a␤»
13:43 colomon m: sub list-subtract (@a, @b) { @a.grep(* ∉ @b ) }; say @a (-) @b
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/F5ChBulsqc␤Variable '@a' is not declared␤at /tmp/F5ChBulsqc:1␤------> 3ract (@a, @b) { @a.grep(* ∉ @b ) }; say 7⏏5@a (-) @b␤»
13:43 colomon m: sub list-subtract (@a, @b) { @a - @b }; say list-subtract(<c b a>, <b d e>)
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:44 colomon m: sub list-subtract (@a, @b) { @a (-) @b }; say list-subtract(<c b a>, <b d e>)
13:44 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«set(a, c)␤»
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13:51 Ven Fox news talks about github... ouch... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2vJNNAQZlg
13:52 timotimo hahaha, yeah
13:52 timotimo that video is so excellently bizzare
13:52 timotimo just imagine ... they probably make this kind of mistake in many circumstances
13:53 psch uhhh
13:53 psch PR before fork?
13:53 psch wow
13:53 Ven I think fox news is pretty well known for being terrible in the US, right?
13:53 psch yeah timotimo, that's scary
13:54 timotimo i think everybody knows, but a gigantic amount of people still watch them and take them seriously
13:55 nwc10 faux news striks again?
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13:57 _itz "reposotory"
14:03 hoelzro o/ #perl6
14:04 hoelzro JimmyZ: good catch; I don't know how that line got repeated =/
14:04 hoelzro .tell FROGGS I would like to do that; I just wanted to get the basics done
14:04 yoleaux hoelzro: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
14:04 [Coke] bummer; pmichaud's talk is now not streaming, but is cut off at the end.
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14:07 Ven _itz: they write it correctly at the very end!
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14:15 ugexe perl-j (so probably nqp-j?) seems to do the more correct thing (re: multi character input line separators) for nqp::setinputlinesep
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14:32 smls jnthn: Is it safe for one thread to assign a value to an rw attribute of an object, while another thread pushes that same object to a List/Array (but doesn't look at its attributes)?
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14:33 jnthn smls: Should be
14:34 smls ok
14:34 jnthn smls: Pushing to the same list from two threads will get you trouble though
14:34 smls yeah
14:34 jnthn smls: Also, I'm currently trudging through a bunch of places we hve broken code-gen that accidentally ends up insufficient cloning of blocks
14:34 jnthn *have
14:35 jnthn smls: Which leads to some things seeing the wrong lexicals
14:35 nwc10 this is MoarVM specific, or cross VM?
14:36 jnthn Cross VM
14:40 lizmat good *, #perl6
14:40 lizmat only caught on with backlog of today
14:40 lizmat day #2 of YAPC::NA to begin soon
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14:40 psch hi lizmat o/
14:40 lizmat psch o/
14:41 hoelzro o/ lizmat
14:42 lizmat hoelzro \o
14:43 pmichaud Important GLR-related design question
14:43 lizmat pmichaud o/
14:43 pmichaud (may have already been discussed on-channel)
14:44 pmichaud since post-GLR we will only have two places that do flattening, should
14:44 TimToady don't ask to ask :)
14:44 pmichaud my $list = (1,2,3);   for $list { .say }
14:44 TimToady actually, that was a topicalization, so acceptable :)
14:44 pmichaud produce three iterations?
14:44 pmichaud (I vote yes)
14:44 timotimo in my understanding: no
14:45 timotimo wait, for becomes the flattening thing?
14:45 pmichaud in this formulation,   for $list { .say }    becomes isomorphic with  $list.map: { .say }
14:45 pmichaud still no flattening taking place
14:46 pmichaud (since any nested lists inside of $list aren't flattened out)
14:46 pmichaud this would eliminate a lot of       for $xyz.list { ... }    formulations
14:47 smls Wouldn't that break $ sigils as an indicator for non-flattening though?
14:47 TimToady this has nothing to do with flattening
14:47 pmichaud no, but there's no flattening here.
14:47 timotimo mhm
14:47 smls $xyz.list can be written as @$xyz
14:47 TimToady it's "when do I access the list nature of the argument?"
14:47 pmichaud smls: yes, but why are we forcing people to write   @$xyz   in the first place?
14:48 pmichaud previously this was so that something like
14:48 vendethiel joined #perl6
14:48 pmichaud for  ($a, @b, $c) { ... }     would flatten @b but not $a nor $c.... but 'for' no longer flattens, so why do we need to make the scalar distinction?
14:50 TimToady I think I'm +1 on this now, though I used to not be
14:50 pmichaud TimToady: yeah, I'm the same way.  It's especially telling after seeing some of rjbs++ code yesterday :)
14:51 pmichaud I just no longer see any case where    for $scalar { ... }    shouldn't automatically access $scalar's list nature, or treat it as an iteration of one element.
14:51 pmichaud s/or treat/versus treat/
14:51 TimToady and that's the basic distinction between for and given now
14:51 timotimo t/spec/S03-metaops/hyper.rakudo.moar .......................... No subtests run
14:51 pmichaud exactly
14:51 timotimo is that my problem?
14:52 pmichaud I think a lot of other uses of .list disappear, and we don't have to worry about item-versus-list context nearly so much.
14:52 cdc RabidGravy, jnthn: many thanks for the fix and for the suggestion ("0.^methods(:all).sort(*.name)")!
14:52 pmichaud ("we" being "programmers" here)
14:53 TimToady interestingly, 'for flat $foo' is still a single iteration
14:53 pmichaud yes.
14:53 TimToady heading downstairs &
14:53 pmichaud I'll be heading that way also soon
14:53 mtj_ joined #perl6
14:53 jnthn timotimo: Context? :)
14:53 timotimo jnthn: the question should probably have been "does anybody else see this output?"
14:54 timotimo i'll take this back to #moarvm
14:56 labster joined #perl6
14:59 smls m: my $x = (2, 4, 6); sub a(**@a) { dd @a }; a $x
14:59 camelia rakudo-moar 2aad0b: OUTPUT«(2, 4, 6)␤»
14:59 smls So I guess loops will parse their headers like a **@ slurpy?
15:00 smls That's at least consistent, I guess
15:00 * PerlJam hopes that pmichaud and TimToady can explain themselves to the simple folk like myself at some point.
15:00 smls (though of course from a P5 perspective, it's sacrilegious :P)
15:01 * lizmat also heads downstairs
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 636bd32 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix insufficient cloning in given/when/default.
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom:
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: This could lead to lexicals bleeding between threads.
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/636bd32d9f
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 70abc0b | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Must clone then p6capturelex.
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom:
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Otherwise it's a race condition. This is the only place I spotted this
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: bug; the other places seem to get it right.
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/70abc0bf3e
15:08 hoelzro TIL "[] xx 4" DWIM
15:08 hoelzro jnthn++
15:09 timotimo oh, this could have been what caused problems when i used regexes across threads
15:09 timotimo where i had to build my own $/ to make it not explode (though i'm not 100% sure that was enough)
15:12 hoelzro I did not know that xx auto-thunked the LHS
15:12 lizmat joined #perl6
15:12 jnthn It does, so it'll DWYM :)
15:12 TimToady PerlJam: it's easy to explain to a P5 programmer, if one can make the P5 programmer realize that P5's 'for' is P6's 'for flat'
15:12 Petit_Dejeuner joined #perl6
15:13 hoelzro jnthn: I actually had to try that example in your RT response =)
15:13 TimToady but for itself really just takes two arguments, one of which produces a list, and other of which is a closure
15:13 timotimo we even have an optimization in place that doesn't thunk if the LHS is "simple"
15:13 hoelzro timotimo: I saw that bit =)
15:13 hoelzro I'm not sure if it's good or bad that Perl 6 still surprises me =P
15:13 hoelzro this surprise is *definitely* welcome, though
15:13 jnthn hoelzro: Found the given/when bugs while looking into you RT #125346
15:13 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publi​c/Bug/Display.html?id=125346
15:13 jnthn hoelzro: It gets things righter now but...still occasionally wrong. :/
15:14 timotimo made very famous by python's implementation of default function values :)
15:14 hoelzro jnthn: I saw that; interesting how that works
15:14 hoelzro thanks for digging in
15:14 jnthn Yeah, the case in the ticket is fixed now
15:14 hoelzro oh, wow
15:14 jnthn Uh
15:14 PerlJam TimToady: I was having some agita from  "for $list { }" being three iterations and "for flat $foo {}" being one iteration   thinking that $foo and $list were meant to be the same.
15:14 jnthn the case I golfed it to
15:14 hoelzro ahhh
15:14 jnthn So there's someting else going on still
15:15 jnthn Your original is right most of the time rather than occasionally for me after this fix
15:15 hoelzro I'm just cleaning out stale branches and uncommitted tests @ home, so I don't expect most of this to get fixed right away =)
15:15 jnthn But still ends up with one promise Planned some of the time...
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15:30 dalek specs: ef4b8b7 | lizmat++ | S (4 files):
15:30 dalek specs: Remove .graphs fossils
15:30 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/ef4b8b725a
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15:53 ab6tract moritz: yup, ab6tract is my nick for the webchat
15:54 ab6tract m: my %x = x => 8, y => 9, z => 8; my %r = %x.invert.unique; %r.say;
15:54 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«8 => z, 9 => y␤»
15:54 ab6tract m: my %x = x => 8, y => 9, z => 8; (my %r).push: %x.invert.unique; %r.say;
15:54 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«8 => x z, 9 => y␤»
15:56 ab6tract This makes sense to me conceptually, but I would love to read a deeper explanation of what is actually happening there. I guess it treats the values of %r as arrays and pushes onto them?
15:56 timotimo yeah, push on a hash will turn values into lists if the same key is encountered multiple times
15:57 pmichaud PerlJam: I would expect that    my $list = 1,2,3; for flat $list { ... };   will still be one iteration
15:57 * moritz too
15:58 pmichaud more concretely:     for flat $a, @b, $c { ... }    produces @b.elems+2 iterations, even if $a and $c are iterables
15:59 pmichaud the real conclusion I was hoping to reach (and did)   is that     for <mumble> { ... }    basically desugars to    <mumble>.map({ ... })
16:01 pmichaud that should be easy enough for simple folk :)
16:02 smls will take some getting used to, but yeah, it's consistent.
16:03 smls (though I didn't mind the flattening `for` either.)
16:03 timotimo that's flattering
16:04 smls :P
16:04 pmichaud what really happens is that a lot of places where people were doing @(...)   or   .list    can disappear, I think.
16:06 labster joined #perl6
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16:08 smls Alright, so an undefined value will happily propagate through a postscripting chain, but as soon as it hits a method call, it blows up:
16:08 smls m: my %x; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4]; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4].lc
16:08 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«(Any)␤Method 'lc' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/uHu7Ex_n9a:1␤␤»
16:08 smls Do we have some way to say "only call this method if the invocant id defined; otherwise return the invocant directly"?
16:09 pmichaud m: my %x; say %x<foo>.?lc
16:09 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
16:09 timotimo m: my %x; %x<foo>.<bar>.[5] = 5; say %x
16:09 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«foo => bar => (Any) (Any) (Any) (Any) (Any) 5␤»
16:09 pmichaud hmm, not that.
16:09 timotimo ^- this is why
16:10 smls Maybe  &&  as metaop akin to the  =  metaop would be useful? As in  $foo&&.method
16:10 smls Although, that looks kinda messy :P
16:11 timotimo m: my %x; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4]; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4] andthen .lc
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«(Any)␤(Any)␤Method 'lc' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/7j1c0TFhUH:1␤␤»
16:11 timotimo m: my %x; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4]; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4] andthen .perl.say
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«(Any)␤(Any)␤Any␤»
16:11 timotimo m: my %x; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4]; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4] andthen *.say
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«(Any)␤(Any)␤True␤»
16:11 timotimo m: my %x; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4]; say (%x<foo>.<bar>.[4] andthen .lc)
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«(Any)␤(Any)␤»
16:11 timotimo m: my %x; say %x<foo>.<bar>.[4]; say (%x<foo>.<bar>.[4] andthen "ooooh" orelse "noooo!")
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«(Any)␤noooo!␤»
16:12 smls nice
16:12 timotimo andthen has extremely low precedence
16:12 timotimo that has to be kept in mind
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16:24 tony-o_ m: .say for 1...Inf
16:24 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«(timeout)1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤1​2␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤​26␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39​␤40␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤5…»
16:25 lizmat m: my $a; say $a.?foo
16:25 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
16:25 lizmat this is assuming that Any doesn't have a foo method
16:26 lizmat m: my $a; say $a.?Int
16:26 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
16:26 lizmat m: my $a; say $a.?keys
16:26 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«␤»
16:27 RabidGravy ooh
16:27 RabidGravy like
16:29 ssqq joined #perl6
16:29 dalek doc: 16c4d0c | pmichaud++ | lib/Language/operators.pod:
16:29 dalek doc: Add note about topicalizing rhs for infix:<andthen>.
16:29 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/16c4d0c036
16:30 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
16:33 RabidGravy lizmat, is that short cutting $a.defined && $a.can('foo') && $a.foo ? or just partially
16:34 pmichaud RabidGravy: $a.?foo   returns Nil if $a doesn't have a 'foo' method.  It doesn't check definedness of $a, I don't think.
16:35 RabidGravy still very useful
16:35 pmichaud m:  say (Any.?list).WHAT
16:35 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
16:35 ssqq When get memory address of some object, How to return object according memory address?
16:39 timotimo you can only do that with NativeCall
16:39 lizmat RabidGravy: so yes, it's doing something close to what you want , but for maybe not th right reason
16:39 timotimo if you're working with memory addresses of objects, you must know that MoarVM's garbage collector is moving
16:40 timotimo if you hit a GC between calculating the address and grabbing the object from memory, you'll be majorly screwed
16:41 RabidGravy seems reasonable
16:41 phao joined #perl6
16:43 ssqq timotimo: I want to know if it possible establish C language memory model using Perl6
16:43 JimmyZ_ I think he means object.id
16:44 timotimo you can get access to the underlying MVMObject as a C Struct, but there's no way to put it back into the VM so that it gets managed properly
16:46 yqt joined #perl6
16:48 lizmat Q: how can you be sure your object will not be moved by the GC while reading/writing it?
16:48 lizmat A: I don't think you can, therefore you should *always* use a MoarVM API function to read/write objects ?
16:50 JimmyZ_ the object won't move if object.id get called once
16:50 JimmyZ_ iirc
16:50 timotimo ah, right, it gets put into the second generation
16:50 timotimo but if it points at any other MVMObject, that pointer can change from under you
16:50 timotimo since you don't get to add additional roots from "outside" the internals
16:50 spider-mario joined #perl6
16:53 JimmyZ_ yeah
16:57 [ptc] hoelzro, ugexe: have just updated the Travis build stuff to what BanzaiMan wanted to have, hopefully he's happy with that
16:57 [ptc] hoelzro, ugexe: am looking into how to add the relevant Perl6 docs page to travis now
16:59 vendethiel joined #perl6
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17:01 ugexe [ptc]: did that `rakudo triple #{version} #{version} #{version}` get changed?
17:06 muraiki joined #perl6
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17:08 [ptc] ugexe: in what way?
17:08 [ptc] ugexe: I updated both rakudobrew commands to be in a fold and to include timing info
17:09 smls "rakudobrew triple nom master master"  still works for me
17:09 [ptc] also, I think the perl6 build scripts will need testing once they are available on travis before the functionality gets advertised
17:10 ssqq When parse C 'typedef int Int', new type would dynamically established, How to dynamically change grammar rule accordingly?
17:13 JimmyZ_ ssqq, 你可以看一下 tinycc 是怎么实现的
17:13 Util I am presenting a Perl 6 talk, 2 hours from now.
17:13 Util If anyone (not attending) wants to sanity-check my code,
17:13 colomon Util++
17:14 Util I will welcome corrections (and even suggestions) until then. Thanks!
17:14 [ptc] Util++
17:14 Util http://home.p6c.org/~util/talks/YAPC/Y​APC_NA_2015_Stop_Panicking/stop_panick​ing_Perl5_is_Perl6_where_it_counts.pdf
17:14 pmichaud Util++
17:15 ssqq p6: grammar G { my @types = <int float>; token type { @types }; token typedef-expr { 'typedef' \s+ <type> <ident> { push @types, $<name> }}
17:15 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Missing block␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> 3<type> <ident> { push @types, $<name> }}7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤        statement end␤»
17:15 ugexe [ptc]: That command is feeding the same $version as the perl6, moar, and nqp isnt it?
17:16 ugexe it should either be 3 different $version variables, or just `rakudobrew triple`
17:16 ssqq JimmyZ: 我想知道在Perl6中如何动态的修改 token
17:16 [ptc] ugexe: that it uses the same $version was the idea
17:17 pmichaud Util: (slide 16)  Perl 6 now has a .is-prime method
17:17 ssqq JimmyZ_: 我用数组实现了,但感觉不太对劲
17:17 timotimo Util: is there a reason you show for @array.keys -> $i { and then use @array[$i] } rather than for @array.kv -> $i, $v { use $v } ?
17:17 [ptc] ugexe: if I just use rakudobrew triple, that doesn't run (iirc)
17:18 timotimo ah, it's in there later on
17:18 colomon Util: seems like you address for (well, foreach), do a few other things, then come back to for?
17:18 [ptc] ugexe: the version tie-in was something that I wanted: namely that a given Rakudo stack would be available when saying in .travis.yml, perl6: 2015.05 (for example)
17:18 timotimo Ulti: on slide 49 there's "@r =('z') x 3);" which misses a "("
17:18 colomon Util: all without ever showing for @array -> $v
17:19 colomon Util: (or did I miss it?)
17:19 ugexe [ptc]: sounds like you want `rakudobrew build $backend $version`
17:19 Util pmichaud: .is-prime omission intentions; teaser for Ovid's last few slides
17:20 Util colomon: for() not all being together is intentional, for effect.
17:20 [ptc] ugexe: don't think so...
17:20 ugexe triple is for building version $0 of moar, version $1 of nqp, and version $2 of rakudo (order may be incorrect) i believe
17:20 colomon Util: k
17:20 [ptc] ugexe: what I'm trying to do (and possibly doing it incorrectly) is to build a given Rakudo release
17:21 pmichaud Util: just checking :)
17:21 ugexe yes, thats what the build command i posted does
17:21 [ptc] ugexe: and usually moar, nqp and rakudo are all at the same version number
17:21 [ptc] ugexe: ah, ok
17:21 pmichaud Slide 49 paren typo in last line?
17:22 Util colomon: good point, I did never show single-var version, but I do say: for @array -> $city, $state, $zip
17:22 pmichaud Util: ^^
17:22 colomon Util: yeah, I’m still reading through, just got to the triple var version.
17:22 [ptc] ugexe: I need to try that out, thanks for the tip
17:23 [ptc] ugexe: btw: I added your email address as listed on GitHub to the build file, similarly to other community-supported languages, hope that's ok
17:23 Util pmichaud: 49 paren typo - Fixed. Thanks!
17:23 ugexe only if you are a nigerian prince
17:24 timotimo BBIAB
17:25 [ptc] ugexe: well, as it happens, I *do* have 10^9 USD which I need to put in a bank account somewhere.  Just send me all your bank details, passwords, etc. and I'll do the rest :-P
17:25 timotimo m: my @field_names = < CITY  'STATE NAME' ZIP # will change later␤>; say @field_names;
17:25 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«CITY 'STATE NAME' ZIP # will change later␤»
17:26 timotimo m: my @field_names = << CITY  'STATE NAME' ZIP # will change later␤>>; say @field_names;
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«CITY STATE NAME ZIP # will change later␤»
17:26 uncleyear joined #perl6
17:26 pmichaud m: my @field_names = < CITY  'STATE NAME' ZIP # will change later␤>; say @field_names.perl
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«["CITY", "'STATE", "NAME'", "ZIP", "#", "will", "change", "later"]<>␤»
17:26 timotimo Util: one of your slides suggests this works -^
17:26 pmichaud m: my @field_names = << CITY  'STATE NAME' ZIP # will change later␤>>; say @field_names.perl
17:26 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«["CITY", "STATE NAME", "ZIP", "#", "will", "change", "later"]<>␤»
17:31 Util timotimo: looksing...
17:32 larion joined #perl6
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17:33 JimmyZ_ ssqq, token 里面是可以使用变量的
17:35 lizmat Util: alternative to "say "My name is {$self.name}";" is "say "My name is $self.name()";
17:35 Util timotimo: Thanks! I was remembering that that was specced to work, but did not check (in haste). Re-writing.
17:36 Util lizmat: Thanks! I had forgotten that (along with zen slices). I think that I will leave it as-is, though, since I am showing off interpolated code blocks.
17:39 [ptc] ugexe: `rakudobrew build $backend $version` is much better
17:39 [ptc] ugexe: I'm going to leave $backend hardcoded as moar for now, however we can change this to support the jvm in future as well, what do you think?
17:41 ugexe sounds like the best option
17:42 RabidGravy boom
17:48 FROGGS joined #perl6
17:50 FROGGS o/
17:50 yoleaux 14:04Z <hoelzro> FROGGS: I would like to do that; I just wanted to get the basics done
17:51 hoelzro o/ FROGGS
17:52 FROGGS hi hoelzro
17:54 jdv79 m: for 1..3 { try "foo".IO.rename("bar");} # usually not "broken"
17:54 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: ( no output )
17:54 jdv79 m: for 1..4 { try "foo".IO.rename("bar");} # usually "broken"
17:54 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: ( no output )
17:54 flussence it's a gc bug, afaik
17:54 jdv79 m: for 1..10 { try "foo".IO.rename("bar");} # usually "broken"
17:54 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: ( no output )
17:55 jdv79 :( - that breaks pretty reliably locally and via msging camelia - idk
17:56 jdv79 m: for 1..20 { try "foo".IO.rename("bar");} # maybe
17:56 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value <element> of type Any in string context  in code  at /tmp/9fpdYO6Mo0:1␤WARNING: unhandled Failure detected in DESTROY:␤Failed to rename '/home/camelia/foo' to '/home/camelia/bar': Failed to rename file: no such file or direct…»
17:56 jdv79 ah, there
17:56 abraxxa joined #perl6
17:56 jdv79 is that a bug?
17:56 flussence «dir('.').sort xx 2» gets me a segfault, and I have problems doing basic addition too many times, so I'm pretty convinced they all have the same root cause
17:57 jdv79 some gc thing you mean?
17:57 flussence yeah. I believe it's already known about, at least
17:57 ugexe can a role force an attribute on an interface like method stubs? or am i wandering into an anti-pattern...
17:57 jdv79 ok
17:58 jdv79 jnthn: ^^ is the golfed version of what i hit the other day
17:58 masak evenin', #perl6
17:58 labster joined #perl6
17:58 flussence o/
17:59 lizmat flussence: seems related to what *is* in dir "."
17:59 lizmat can't get it to fail locally
17:59 flussence oh, I'm on 32-bit, that might be why
18:03 [Sno] joined #perl6
18:04 geekosaur very common cause of weirdness is stuff assuming that filenames are utf8, when on unixlikes they are octet strings and no encoding can safely be assumed
18:04 geekosaur cue bug reports of gtk and OS X Aqua file picker crashes
18:05 pmichaud Excellent talk from DrForr++ .
18:07 Util DrForr++ indeed!
18:10 colomon on what?
18:11 amurf joined #perl6
18:11 Util colomon: Quaternions! You would have loved it.
18:11 colomon oooo, I think I would have!
18:14 mtj_ joined #perl6
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18:31 jnthn To correct an inaccuracy in the backlog: the object *may* move after calling getting its unique object ID, it's just that the ID won't change. It's currently implemented by pre-choosing a gen2 address; that is an implementation detail, though, and also not useful as the move is not immediate.
18:32 jnthn flussence: I fixed a nasty SEGV this morning that was more likely to show up on 32-bit than 64-bit; you may want to grab latest if you haven't already
18:32 jnthn m: dir('.').sort xx 2
18:32 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: ( no output )
18:32 jnthn m: dir('.').sort xx 10
18:32 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: ( no output )
18:32 jnthn m: dir('.').sort xx 100
18:33 camelia rakudo-moar 70abc0: ( no output )
18:35 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
18:44 hoelzro I forget, does Str have a method that's like Perl 5's tr/abc/def/ expression?
18:44 hoelzro ah, .trans
18:44 Util hoelzro: $str.trans( %mapping.pairs );
18:46 hoelzro thanks Util
18:46 Util yw
18:52 jnthn TimToady: In Failure, it seems that if we actually throw the exception (maybe because it got fatalized) then we don't mark the Failure as handled. This seems to be one of our big sources of leaked Failure.
18:52 jnthn TimToady: I figure since actually threw they count as handled at that point?
18:53 jnthn This is why we leak the rename ones in a try, as in the jdv79++ example earlier.
18:54 espadrine joined #perl6
18:54 * jnthn tries a patch to do this
18:56 moritz marking a thrown Failure as handled sounds sensible
18:56 jnthn OK. If the patch spectests fine I'll put it in :)
18:56 flussence jnthn++ # thanks, will give it a try now
18:59 Ulti not sure if anyone on here noticed http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/​392gz7/perl_6_multidimensional_arrays/
18:59 Ulti whatever happened to the constraint version of the shaped array declaration was it just abandoned in favour of waiting to do proper native like aligned arrays?
18:59 bin_005 joined #perl6
19:03 jnthn Ulti: constraint versoin?
19:04 FROGGS Ulti: you are talking about this? https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/co​mmits/sized-arrays?author=Arcterus
19:04 FROGGS IIRC it was had a "wrong approach"
19:04 jnthn *nod*
19:04 FROGGS s/was//
19:05 jnthn I'm planning to work on multi-dim arrays; they're next up, except it kinda doesn't make sense to dig in until I see the way Array will be post-GLR
19:05 Ulti sure
19:06 dalek rakudo/nom: 80f8efc | jnthn++ | src/core/Failure.pm:
19:06 dalek rakudo/nom: A Failure that throws counts as handled.
19:06 dalek rakudo/nom:
19:06 dalek rakudo/nom: This means fatalized Failures will not report themselves as leaked.
19:06 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/80f8efcce2
19:06 jnthn jdv79: That should fix your rename issue, anyways.
19:07 Ulti jnthn out of interest is this going to be something that adds constraints to normal lists i.e. checks some boundary or something that is a bit more like a C multi-dim array?
19:08 zostay returning to my question last night about using .get or .lines on a :bin, it seems to me like that should work, but return a Blob instead of a Str or provide Blob-ish alternative methods
19:08 jnthn Ulti: That's one of the things I'm working out at the moment; S09 doesn't clearly say it has to be one way or the other
19:08 Ulti yeah
19:08 jnthn Ulti: It hints that it *can* be C multi-dim style though
19:09 Ulti I know which one everyone in PDL land would want >:3
19:09 jnthn Ulti: 'cus it points out that you might have to create a "view" kinda thing if you access just one dimension
19:09 FROGGS zostay: I understand it as .get/.lines being for strings, but .read is for bufs
19:09 Ulti FORTRAN style arrays :)
19:09 jnthn So I need to ponder the implementation consequences of that also. :-)
19:11 Ulti yeah I guess something like Java solved that by having Iterator
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19:15 zostay FROGGS: i understand that... but the :bin option has very little meaning for :r files, you might as well not bother because read doesn't bother with encodings anyway
19:16 zostay i'm suggesting a way to make :bin more powerful, allowing you to buffer records in a binary file
19:16 yqt joined #perl6
19:17 zostay in fact, the only place :bin seems to make any useful difference is in slurp
19:17 zostay in which you can pass :bin there directly
19:18 dalek perl6-roast-data: 2542aff | coke++ | / (9 files):
19:18 dalek perl6-roast-data: today (automated commit)
19:18 dalek perl6-roast-data: review: https://github.com/coke/perl6​-roast-data/commit/2542aff42e
19:18 brrt joined #perl6
19:18 zostay IO::Handle could be treated as an Iterable over Blobs or Strs if :bin was used more
19:19 [Coke] jnthn: I'm sure we can come up with a list of RTs or something if you're looking for work before GLR is done. :)
19:21 smls_ zostay: Isn't that what  IO::Handle.lines  and  IO::Handle.words  is for?
19:22 smls_ oh, nvm
19:22 zostay yes and no... encoded, buffered files yes, binary files no
19:23 jnthn [Coke]: I'm open to being given RTs people especially care about; I'm trying to pick off some of the most serious ones already :-)
19:23 rjbs jnthn: A question!
19:23 jnthn rjbs: An answer!
19:23 rjbs jnthn: I had a /very/ short talk with Pm earlier about NFG's representation in memory.
19:23 jnthn .oO( Meta-discussion is so easy! )
19:24 rjbs jnthn: He said that it's an array of int16, and that high codepoints are /also/ represented by synthetics.
19:24 rjbs (or at least negatives)
19:24 jnthn rjbs: No, it's an array of int32 :)
19:24 rjbs Thanks, question answered!
19:25 jnthn rjbs: Though we'll probably use an array of uint8 for things in the Latin-1 range in the future.
19:25 smls_ joined #perl6
19:25 Petit_Dejeuner joined #perl6
19:25 jnthn To cheat a bit. :-)
19:25 jnthn But for now, it's all 32 wide
19:26 rjbs thanks!
19:27 lizmat joined #perl6
19:27 nwc10 the slightly more funky plan was to use arrays of uint8s for anything with no more than 128 distinct non-ASCII codepoints
19:28 nwc10 but "just latin 1, and done" beats "funky vapourware"
19:28 nwc10 also, "just latin 1" (or some other fixed 8 bit) means memcmp()
19:29 jnthn nwc10: That is funky but the latin 1 thing goes together well with us storing things in the bytecode file as latin-1 when we can also.
19:29 jnthn nwc10: Latin-1 is in NFG for free, so we save a bunch of time at startup things to this. :-)
19:30 jnthn And if we can just use the bytes directly in the MVMString we build, we'll do even better.
19:31 smls joined #perl6
19:34 jdv79 jnthn: thanks!  seems so.
19:39 flussence I thought up a crazy idea about strings a while back and now seems as good a time as any to ask it: what if NFG strings were to default to the smallest int type that can contain all the synthetics, instead of int32?
19:39 jnthn You'd have to account for the non-synthetics too...
19:40 flussence and here's the crazy part: what if we were to stuff any random unicode characters encountered into unused synthetic codepoints :)
19:44 flussence or in layman's terms: "hey, let's abuse NFG to reinvent fixed-width codepages!"
19:44 lizmat or in other words: make all codepoints synthetic internally ?
19:44 pmichaud okay, int32 array then.
19:44 pmichaud works for me :)
19:45 pmichaud I'm getting lots of vm-related questions here at yapc, so I'm having to make educated guesses :)
19:45 dwarring joined #perl6
19:45 flussence lizmat: pretty much. the nice thing about the Str type is nobody using it in perl6 code has to ever know it's doing something horrifying underneath :)
19:46 pmichaud but my answers are often prefaced with  "well, ask #perl6 to be sure, but I think it's likely ..... "
19:46 jnthn :-)
19:46 pmichaud I suppose I could actually learn about all of this stuff for real and become more authoritative... but  NAAAAAHH
19:47 moritz flussence: except when you nativecall
19:47 FROGGS pmichaud: :D
19:47 flussence moritz: yeah, you got me there...
19:48 lizmat but nativecall code would need to be able to handle any "real" synthetics anyway
19:48 jnthn We encode a Str into an encoding before it escapes to native calls :)
19:48 lizmat so then it wouldn't matter whether all codepoints were synthetic or not
19:49 jnthn Synthetics are never to be leaked
19:49 zengargoyle joined #perl6
19:51 flussence jnthn: before I forget to mention it: that segfault's fixed for me :D
19:51 jnthn Phew :)
19:51 jnthn It took some finding.
19:56 PerlJam Util++
19:56 PerlJam (watching now :)
19:56 flussence also, if we end up with a scenario where strings can map to any list of codepoints internally, that giant mountain of Encode:: modules perl5 has becomes trivial to do in perl6...
20:06 telex joined #perl6
20:12 dalek specs: 866db90 | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
20:12 dalek specs: S99: spotted "synthetic character" on #p6. Added entries"
20:12 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/866db9044e
20:13 lizmat cognominal: I think it was more "synthetic codepoint"  ?
20:13 jnthn aye
20:14 cognominal ok, will fix it
20:18 DrForr colomon: It's on youtube.
20:18 colomon DrForr++ \o/
20:19 DrForr Thanks.
20:21 DrForr Incidentally there's a possible way to do what I'm after (but not really seriously.) U+20D0..U+20FF have a Math property, and the combining solidus and arrows are in that range.
20:21 dalek specs: afd68e6 | (Stéphane Payrard)++ | S99-glossary.pod:
20:21 dalek specs: S99: fixed previous entries; thx jnthn++, lizmat++"
20:21 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/afd68e6573
20:22 uncleyear joined #perl6
20:24 isacloud joined #perl6
20:29 DrForr Looks like we're getting quite a bit of perl6 participation this time 'round.
20:30 pmichaud yes, I estimated at least 50 people at Util++'s talk
20:30 pmichaud my talk yesterday was standing-room-only (smaller room), which shocked me quite a lot
20:31 pmichaud I get to give my "How (not) to design a language" talk tomorrow :) :)
20:31 DrForr I got aybe ... 30?
20:34 pmichaud DrForr: I think it was at least 30, yes.
20:35 dalek ecosystem/jgoff-ANTLR4: 4183365 | (Jeffrey Goff)++ | META.list:
20:35 dalek ecosystem/jgoff-ANTLR4: Add ANTLR4
20:35 dalek ecosystem/jgoff-ANTLR4: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/4183365ab2
20:36 DrForr That's the ANTLR-Perl6 translator.
20:37 lizmat DrForr++  :-)
20:38 llfourn joined #perl6
20:46 masak 'night, #perl6
20:46 lizmat good night, masak
20:51 pmichaud m: sub fib(Int $nth where * >= 0) { $n };   fib(-3)
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/EWs0VtiQxw␤Variable '$n' is not declared␤at /tmp/EWs0VtiQxw:1␤------> 3sub fib(Int $nth where * >= 0) { 7⏏5$n };   fib(-3)␤»
20:51 pmichaud m: sub fib(Int $nth where * >= 0) { $nth };   fib(-3)
20:51 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '$nth'␤  in sub fib at /tmp/N0Ot8mbFJP:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/N0Ot8mbFJP:1␤␤»
20:52 pmichaud why the "type" in "Constraint type check"?  Would "Constraint check" be better phrasing?
20:53 timotimo because we claim "subset Int where * >= 0" as a whole is a constraint type
20:54 pmichaud did you mean   "subset Foo of Int where * >= 0"  ?  In that case, Foo is a constraint type, yes.
20:55 timotimo yeah
20:55 timotimo that's how it's implemented anyway ... i think?
20:55 timotimo hm, do we have the constraint directly on the Attribute object?
20:55 pmichaud is that implementation detail important?
20:56 timotimo if you think the wording should be better without "type" in there, we might be able to change it easily
20:56 pmichaud m: subset PosInt of Int where * >= 0;  sub fib(PosInt $n) { $n };  fib(-3)
20:56 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '$n'␤  in sub fib at /tmp/T_mTHYOqYN:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/T_mTHYOqYN:1␤␤»
20:58 dalek doc: 2b7d3ce | ab5tract++ | lib/Type/Hash.pod:
20:58 dalek doc: Add an example for Hash.push
20:58 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2b7d3ce901
21:01 Khisanth joined #perl6
21:02 hoelzro if I want to create my own sub lines() that does a bit extra on top of CORE::lines, I just have to call CORE::lines(), right?
21:06 ranguard joined #perl6
21:06 lizmat m: SETTING::&lines("foo").say
21:06 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«foo␤»
21:07 lizmat hoelzro: ^^
21:07 sftp joined #perl6
21:07 hoelzro lizmat: why SETTING and not CORE?
21:07 lizmat m: CORE::&lines("foo").say   # also works  :-)
21:07 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«foo␤»
21:07 jnthn pmichaud: I don't think "type" adds a huge amount to the error
21:07 ranguard left #perl6
21:08 jnthn pmichaud: It's accurate, but not especially important.
21:08 pmichaud I think it might actually add some confusion, since the part that failed (the constraint) wasn't really a "type" as the programmer would think of it.
21:08 hoelzro ok, thanks lizmat!
21:08 pmichaud Ovid++ is giving his talk now, and that error message came up, and the use of the word "type" was a bit jarring to me (nobody else noticed/commented on it)
21:08 jnthn pmichaud: Depends on the programmer :P
21:09 jnthn Anyway, no objections. I think of it was a type for sure, but I woudln't miss "type" being in there
21:09 jdv79 any thoughts on default and lazy on attrs?  default meaning being able to get back to the default value as a var can do with "is default(42)".
21:10 lizmat I think there shouldn't be a difference between my and has wrt "is default"
21:10 jdv79 and lazy in general as rjbs asked and lazy {} may be able to do or something
21:10 lizmat now, lazy, the word is still not out on that...
21:11 jdv79 i'd like to see an example of the back to default value case since i wasn't able to do it
21:11 lizmat as you can for now easily work around it with method foo { $!foo //= lazy evaluation }
21:11 jnthn Assigning Nil is the usual way to restore a default
21:12 Util PerlJam: o/
21:12 jnthn Time for some rest &
21:13 lizmat m: class a { has $.a is default(42) }   # can't do is default on attrs yet
21:13 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/NS6Jy9v2Y3␤Can't use unknown trait 'is default' in an attribute declaration.␤at /tmp/NS6Jy9v2Y3:1␤    expecting any of:␤        rw␤        readonly␤        box_target␤        leading_docs␤      …»
21:13 lizmat good night, jnthn
21:15 pmichaud m:  subset PL where -10.0 .. 10.0;   say pi ~~ PL
21:15 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:15 pmichaud m:  subset PL where -10.0 .. 10.0;   say "Hello" ~~ PL
21:15 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«False␤»
21:16 pmichaud m:  subset PL where -10.0 .. 10.0;   my @a = (1,2,3); say @a ~~ PL
21:16 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«True␤»
21:20 dalek doc: 2e7179a | ab5tract++ | lib/Type/Hash.pod:
21:20 dalek doc: Add example of initialization of Hash.push
21:20 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2e7179a349
21:21 pmichaud question about "subset" keyword perhaps should be "subtype"
21:21 jdv79 m: class A { has $.a is rw = 42; }; my $c = A.new(:a("foo")); say $c.a; $c.a = Nil; say $c.a; # what?
21:21 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«foo␤(Any)␤»
21:22 jdv79 did jnthn mean that should have returned "foo\n42\n"?
21:23 RabidGravy I don't think so, the default assignment is made when the object is constructed
21:24 bin_005 joined #perl6
21:24 RabidGravy as I understand it anyway
21:24 flussence m: my Int $a is default(42); say $a; $a = 300; say $a; $a = Nil; say $a
21:24 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«42␤300␤42␤»
21:27 flussence m: class A { has Int $.a is rw is default(42) }
21:27 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/k1DPqBsnI7␤Can't use unknown trait 'is default' in an attribute declaration.␤at /tmp/k1DPqBsnI7:1␤    expecting any of:␤        rw␤        readonly␤        box_target␤        leading_docs␤      …»
21:28 pmichaud default assignment occurs for uninitialized attributes after all other initialization has taken place
21:28 flussence m: my Int $a is default(42) = 300; say $a; $a = Nil; say $a
21:28 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«300␤42␤»
21:29 pmichaud however, I have a strong sense that default initialization and lazy are tightly coupled
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21:36 timotimo pmichaud: it feels to me you already get a "subtype" by deriving a class from another
21:37 pmichaud timotimo: we're looking specifically at the case of
21:37 timotimo case of $foo { ... } ? :)
21:38 pmichaud subset  PosInt of Int where * > 0;
21:38 pmichaud why "subset" here instead of "subtype"  ?
21:38 pmichaud (since we're effectively declaring a new "type", not a "set")
21:39 timotimo hmm
21:39 timotimo "subsettype" %)
21:40 PerlJam pmichaud: also, "subset" looks like it might have some relation with set() and Set, but doesn't
21:40 pmichaud PerlJam: exactly what jarred me about the question (and why I think it's potentially legitimate)
21:41 pmichaud since we have built-in set operators now, I wonder if the term "subset" is subject to unfortunate punning
21:41 pmichaud anyway, it's undoubtedly a TimToady call to make.
21:41 pmichaud (unless/until someone comes up with the obvious reason it should remain 'subset')
21:42 pmichaud moving tables
21:42 PerlJam "derive PosInt from Int where * > 0"  :)
21:42 RabidGravy though there is a danger subtype might imply something about the things that isn't true
21:43 RabidGravy though I'd be happy with subtype
21:43 pmichaud well, I think it's pretty clear that "PosInt" is what we commonly refer to and think of as a "type"
21:44 andreoss joined #perl6
21:45 PerlJam We also declare our other types with the "class" keyword.  Why not do the same with "subtypes"?
21:45 lizmat joined #perl6
21:46 PerlJam class PosInt of Int where * > 0;
21:46 pmichaud oh, please no.
21:46 pmichaud I'd think of class as being something more than just "subtype"
21:46 pmichaud class also means "and add these methods and add these attributes and ..."
21:47 PerlJam btw, some perl6 person needs to crash the "Symbolic Computation in Perl" talk  (the examples so far have been using rationals and complex numbers)
21:47 pmichaud it's no so much that I want to see 'type' in the declarator, as much as I want it to not have 'set'
21:47 pmichaud and we have several types of types.  :)
21:47 pmichaud we have roles, we have constraint types, we have classes, ...
21:49 flussence I propose s/subset/check/, since it's 5 chars like "class", and unambiguous about what comes next
21:49 PerlJam too verby
21:49 lizmat collection ?
21:49 flussence (and +1 to not calling it subset in any case, since we already have subbuf and substr...)
21:50 * PerlJam gets the feeling that we're now exploring all the bad ideas so that we can have more confidence in calling it "subtype"
21:51 flussence .oO( there's also the option of picking a long word and abbreviating it like enum )
21:51 PerlJam (though I did like the "derive" version)
21:52 PerlJam flussence: anything-other-than-subset  or  abbreviated,  aots   :)
21:53 lizmat restricto
21:53 flussence .oO( "constraint" -> "aint" -> "ain't PosInt an Int where * > 0;"... )
21:53 PerlJam flussence: nice!  :)
21:54 flussence not a serious suggestion, but it worked there :)
21:54 PerlJam lizmat: why the trailing "o"?   restrict PosInt of Int where * > 0;  isn't bad at all.
21:54 lizmat too verby ?
21:54 PerlJam though, again, it's probably ... yeah
21:55 lizmat the "o" was for "I restrict"
21:55 * flussence goes to see if postgres has a nice word for this, since their whole type system tends to align nicely with ours
21:56 Petit_Dejeuner joined #perl6
21:56 PerlJam .oO( <flussence>  Guess what postgres uses?  "subtype"  )
21:58 flussence hm, they only mention "subtype" in the context of constraining a range to a specific number type :)
21:58 flussence everything else is just... "type".
21:59 pmichaud I'm not strongly opposed to "subset", just noting the disconnect
21:59 PerlJam type PosInt of Int where * > 0;  # works for me too  :)
22:00 pmichaud Question of the day....
22:01 pmichaud "Why a butterfly?"
22:01 pmichaud :)
22:01 khisanth_ joined #perl6
22:03 RabidGravy that's me done for the day
22:05 Util Thank you to everyone who checked my slides!
22:06 DrForr +1
22:07 cognominal pmichaud, maybe because of the long larval stage. :)    but then, the imago does not last long :(
22:09 Util pmichaud: http://github.com/perl6/mu/​raw/master/misc/camelia.txt
22:12 cognominal Util, I like the : you can extend just about anything by attaching "P6" wings to it.
22:17 silug joined #perl6
22:18 pmichaud Util: I'm planning my counter-heckle(s) for TimToady after he heckled me at my talk yesterday (with that question)
22:18 andreoss using something like 'has $.x = die "$.x is required"' is encouraged ?
22:21 * TimToady avoids pmichaud...
22:34 Util pmichaud: Ah! Now I understand.
22:37 andreoss m: class Z { has Int $.x = Any }; say Z.new;
22:37 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$!x'; expected 'Int' but got 'Any'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/fjbFvJ0BpL:1␤␤»
22:37 andreoss m: class Z { has Int $.x = die }; say Z.new;
22:37 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«Died␤  in method  at /tmp/wqDzhUXTHN:1␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/wqDzhUXTHN:1␤␤»
22:37 vendethiel joined #perl6
22:38 pmichaud do violins have unicode strings?
22:39 flussence m: class Z { has Int $.x = Empty }; say Z.new # decently readable error, but not self-describing code
22:39 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$!x'; expected 'Int' but got 'Empty'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/wh18ZIz1mq:1␤␤»
22:40 zostay is there a way to get the fileno of a file from an IO::Handle?
22:42 pmichaud zostay: I don't know of one.
22:44 Util zostay: looks like $the_handle.fileno . See: http://design.perl6.org/S32/IO.html#.fileno
22:45 zostay i thought i saw that somewhere, but it does not appear to be implemented at this point
22:45 pmichaud S32 is often conjectural, too
22:45 lizmat yeah, NYI
22:45 zostay that's fine... i'm thinking about how PSGI from Perl adapts to Perl 6
22:46 zostay fileno is part of the Perl 5 PSGI spec so that it may be used as an optimization
22:49 pmichaud Looks like fileno was added to S32 in Sep 2014, so it's a recent conjecture :)
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23:17 zostay if i want a lazy list containing each 100 bytes of a file, how would i write that... the equivalent to $fh.lines, but for fixed-length Blobs?
23:18 spider-mario joined #perl6
23:18 flussence probably easy to do in a gather/take loop
23:18 flussence you'd "take $fh.read(100)"
23:18 timotimo right
23:19 timotimo and you'd have something to break it off on eof or exception
23:19 timotimo don't know which it'll do when it reaches the end of the file
23:19 zostay like, gather loop { take $h.read(10) or last }
23:20 timotimo i'd imagine it'd look like that, yes
23:20 ugexe my $bytes = Supply.from-list: gather while my $b = $byte-stream.read(1) { take $b } is what i use
23:22 timotimo pro-tip: do actually use "take"
23:22 timotimo you can probably get something nicer with map; isn't map also lazy?
23:22 jack_rabbit joined #perl6
23:22 timotimo m: my @test = 0..*.map({ say "test" }); say @test[^3]
23:22 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«WhateverCode.new␤»
23:23 timotimo m: my @test = 0..Inf.map({ say "test" }); say @test[^3]
23:23 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«test␤0 1␤»
23:23 timotimo m: my @test = (0..Inf).map({ say "test" }); say @test[^3]
23:23 timotimo m: my @test = (0 xx *).map({ say "test" }); say @test[^3]
23:23 timotimo ...
23:24 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«(timeout)test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤tes​t␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤te​st␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤t​est␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤te…»
23:24 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«(timeout)test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤tes​t␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤te​st␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤t​est␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤test␤te…»
23:24 timotimo m: my @test := (0 xx *).map({ say "test" }); say @test[^3]
23:24 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«test␤test␤test␤True True True␤»
23:24 timotimo there we go
23:24 timotimo no gather/take needed
23:24 timotimo (as it's quite a bit of overhead at the moment)
23:24 ugexe IO::Socket internally uses uses gather/take for lines()
23:24 timotimo hmm
23:26 ugexe i cant think of any reason it cant use map instead though
23:32 ugexe didnt know about the overhead difference though. good to know
23:33 pmichaud eventually it'll be simply:    my @list = while ($h.read(10)) -> $a { $a };    or somesuch
23:33 pmichaud imo, gather/take is overused for laziness right now... while is a bet better
23:34 pmichaud *bit better
23:37 ugexe i just prefer the explicit statement to `take` something instead of whatever the last value is
23:37 pmichaud well, map would do much the same then
23:38 pmichaud (in the GLR, map() may end up being just a fancy form of while loop :)
23:38 flussence would «$_ while $h.read(10)» be expected to work in that line there?
23:39 ugexe but can i do map({ blah(); take $value })? what i mean is, i dislike map({ blah(); $value }) because if for whatever reason i put debug info after $value, then my code no longer behaves the same. and im a clutz so it happens a lot
23:44 ugexe i suppose that can be implemented as-is with a LEAVE
23:44 dalek doc: 48c0eb9 | ab5tract++ | lib/Type/Nil.pod:
23:44 dalek doc: Add the return of default values when Nil is assigned
23:44 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/48c0eb9960
23:44 ugexe guess not
23:48 jferrero m: say √2 == √2;
23:48 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at /tmp/TBbMahtWoB:1␤------> 3say7⏏5 √2 == √2;␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/TBbMahtWoB:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5√2 == √2;␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix s…»
23:50 jferrero m: say π == π;
23:50 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«True␤»
23:58 ugexe m: say(2 == 2)
23:58 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«True␤»
23:58 ugexe er
23:58 ugexe m: say(√2 == √2)
23:58 camelia rakudo-moar 80f8ef: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/at4T5BQ4tC␤Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' ␤at /tmp/at4T5BQ4tC:1␤------> 3say(7⏏5√2 == √2)␤    expecting any of:␤        argument list␤        prefix…»

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