Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2015-06-18

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 japhb profan: perl5's startup is a really difficult bar (it's only 2-3 ms).  But we already beat 'perl5 -Moose'
00:01 japhb *perl5's *base* startup
00:02 profan ahh, well, i'm sure there are strides to be made either way :), even if you dont get to where perl5 was, i'm sure you'll get to where it's most certainly fast enough
00:02 japhb But personally I'd be happy if we got down to 20-30 ms for perl6 startup.  That's fast enough to be able to start *and get actual work done* before the user can react or the window can scroll.
00:02 profan at that point most people won't register the difference most likely, sounds good
00:03 japhb Right.
00:04 japhb Certainly anything less than 17 ms, and you're faster than a single screen refresh, which is freaky, because then you can do things in such a way that the user feels like you time-warped on them.  But that's just showing off.  :-)
00:05 profan japhb: gaslighting, in perl 6? apparently more likely than you think :)
00:06 japhb Well, we try to only abuse the implementors, not the users.  ;-)
00:13 skids joined #perl6
00:20 BenGoldberg joined #perl6
00:24 akakcolin joined #perl6
00:25 akakcolin joined #perl6
00:26 akakcoli_ joined #perl6
00:34 Wolf joined #perl6
00:36 akakcolin joined #perl6
00:39 akakcoli_ joined #perl6
00:45 laouji joined #perl6
00:48 Akagi201 joined #perl6
01:25 uncleyear joined #perl6
01:32 aborazmeh joined #perl6
01:32 aborazmeh joined #perl6
01:46 dayangkun joined #perl6
02:12 asdf12z_ joined #perl6
02:12 akakcolin joined #perl6
02:13 akakcolin joined #perl6
02:14 akakcolin joined #perl6
02:20 noganex joined #perl6
02:22 telex joined #perl6
02:25 hoelzro anyone around who can help me upload the release tarballs?
02:28 jepeway joined #perl6
02:34 meLon joined #perl6
02:38 rmgk_ joined #perl6
03:13 dalek nqp: 2488091 | hoelzro++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
03:13 dalek nqp: Bump required MoarVM version
03:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/248809154f
03:13 dalek nqp: 61b5259 | hoelzro++ | VERSION:
03:13 dalek nqp: Bump our version
03:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/61b5259728
03:15 hoelzro whenever someone gets a chance, please upload the NQP tarball and signature; they're at http://hoelz.ro/files/nqp-2015.06.tar.gz and http://hoelz.ro/files/nqp-2015.06.tar.gz.asc
03:49 jack_rabbit joined #perl6
04:04 * TimToady waves from Wilson, WY (near Jackson)
04:06 prevost joined #perl6
04:20 akakcolin joined #perl6
04:32 laouji joined #perl6
04:44 Sqirrel joined #perl6
04:46 laouji joined #perl6
04:51 kaare_ joined #perl6
04:53 hobbs joined #perl6
04:58 zostay is there a way to bind to a Pair value?
04:58 laouji joined #perl6
05:07 zostay m: my $x = 'A'; $p = X => \$x; $x = 'B'; $p.perl.say;
05:07 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/KnFCyyl9K6␤Variable '$p' is not declared␤at /tmp/KnFCyyl9K6:1␤------> 3my $x = 'A'; 7⏏5$p = X => \$x; $x = 'B'; $p.perl.say;␤»
05:07 zostay m: my $x = 'A'; my $p = X => \$x; $x = 'B'; $p.perl.say;
05:07 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«:X(\("B"))␤»
05:07 zostay that's the closest i can come up with
05:22 TimToady m: my $p = x => 42; $p.value = 43; say $p
05:22 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«x => 43␤»
05:22 TimToady why do you need to bind?
05:25 * TimToady --> zzz &
05:27 zostay i'm not sure i *need* to bind...
05:28 zostay night night
05:38 ponbiki joined #perl6
05:57 xinming_ joined #perl6
05:57 spider-mario joined #perl6
05:59 domidumont joined #perl6
06:03 domidumont joined #perl6
06:05 diana_olhovik joined #perl6
06:06 _mg_ joined #perl6
06:11 ugexe colomon: ABC might actually install if you fix your META.info provides section. You put the same file path for nearly every module
06:11 ugexe otherwise its impossible to create a proper build order
06:13 ugexe looks like it might have been autogenerated?
06:18 akakcolin joined #perl6
06:21 Sqirrel joined #perl6
06:45 espadrine joined #perl6
06:46 kaare__ joined #perl6
06:48 RabidGravy joined #perl6
06:51 FROGGS joined #perl6
07:00 RabidGravy marning!
07:02 moritz \o
07:04 zakharyas joined #perl6
07:06 rindolf joined #perl6
07:11 TEttinger joined #perl6
07:28 [Tux] joined #perl6
07:31 domidumont joined #perl6
07:54 amurf joined #perl6
07:55 brrt joined #perl6
08:03 CQ joined #perl6
08:14 akakcoli_ joined #perl6
08:18 darutoko joined #perl6
08:19 dakkar joined #perl6
08:25 larion joined #perl6
08:33 uncleyear joined #perl6
08:37 Ven joined #perl6
08:46 timotimo alart!
08:47 timotimo (i think that's spanish for "i'm awake"?)
08:52 xinming joined #perl6
08:58 DrForr or "Aiee! LART!"
09:01 espadrine joined #perl6
09:06 zakharyas joined #perl6
09:09 TEttinger hm, that wasn't what I expected trying to build latest NQP
09:09 TEttinger $ perl Configure.pl --backends=moar,jvm --gen-moar
09:09 TEttinger Bareword found where operator expected at Configure.pl line 220, near "'tools/build"
09:09 abraxxa joined #perl6
09:12 TEttinger that is either 'tools/build/Makefile-Moar.in',     or      $MAKEFILE,
09:12 TEttinger it also says it may continue line 217, which is:     // 'make';
09:14 FROGGS ups
09:15 FROGGS TEttinger: can you change the // to ||?
09:15 TEttinger sure, will try
09:15 nwc10 I'd guess that Configure.pl is missing a 'use 5.010'
09:15 FROGGS your perl binary is probably to old to know what // is
09:15 FROGGS :/
09:18 timotimo wow
09:18 timotimo isn't 5.010 already extremely old?
09:18 DrForr Oldest version not EOLed, maybe?
09:18 DrForr (haven't checked, just guessing.)
09:18 moritz 5.010.0 is 2007-12-18
09:19 timotimo that's just "very old", not "extremely old"
09:19 DrForr Though it would be (sigh) handy to be able to go back to 5.8 for hardcore legacy users, which is to say "most of them" :/
09:19 RabidGravy AVAST!
09:19 moritz DrForr: iirc two or three major releases are supported, so 5.22, 5.20 and maybe 5.18
09:20 moritz hardcore legacy users that want Perl 6? :-)
09:20 timotimo people on strange platforms who want to port perl6, perhaps? :)
09:20 TEttinger yep, I have 5.8.8 because MSYS overrode the path
09:21 TEttinger trying to figure out how to get it to see a newer version
09:21 itz_ vendors do try to backport at least some fixes to older perls sometimes
09:21 timotimo oh, it's windows
09:22 RabidGravy yeah but not "features"
09:22 DrForr moritz: There's a difference between 'legacy users' and 'legacy fanboys' :)
09:23 dalek doc: ec67361 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Str.pod:
09:23 dalek doc: Str.encode returns Blob, not Buf. mt1957++
09:23 dalek doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ec67361815
09:24 TEttinger ok, so you can't build perl6 with a pre-built older perl6, is this right?
09:25 TEttinger I don't see any perl binary named 'perl' in rakudo star from march
09:26 moritz you need a perl 5 to configure/build rakudo.
09:27 timotimo rakudo star doesn't ship a "perl" binary, it's just "perl6"
09:27 TEttinger right ok. installing strawberry perl, should be 5.22 if the version is accurate
09:28 itz_ the wrong perl5 version is specified in Configure.pl
09:28 moritz TEttinger: that's new enough :-)
09:29 moritz itz_: what do you mean? That the minimal version requirement in Configure.pl is too low?
09:29 itz_ yes
09:29 dalek nqp: 0dd9463 | FROGGS++ | Configure.pl:
09:29 dalek nqp: use || instead of 'defined or' to work on older perls
09:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0dd9463b17
09:30 FROGGS we don't need // there anyway
09:30 TEttinger this community rocks :)
09:30 itz_ has anyone tried it in 5.8 (I will if noone else is about to)
09:30 FROGGS :D
09:31 FROGGS itz_: that's most likely a 5.10 feature
09:31 itz_ yes it is .. but is it the only >5.8 feature?
09:31 moritz fwiw perl 5.8.8 is from  is from 2006-01-31
09:31 TEttinger ha, I was in high school then
09:31 moritz m: say Date.today - Date.new(2006-01-31)
09:31 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤    Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6; please use 0o1 if you mean that␤    at /tmp/sXAN9nlNT7:1␤    ------> 3say Date.today - Date.new(2006-017⏏5-31)␤Default constructor for 'Date' only takes named arguments…»
09:32 bonsaikitten ... and still the current version in CentOS 5
09:32 moritz m: say Date.today - Date.new('2006-01-31')
09:32 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«3425␤»
09:32 itz_ its still in RHEL 5.x until 2017 or something
09:32 nwc10 and the RHEL with 5.8.8 is common.
09:32 bonsaikitten nwc10: no upgrade path
09:32 bonsaikitten sigh
09:33 DrForr Lots of CentOS users out there stuck on older perls :/
09:34 bonsaikitten DrForr: the only 'upgrade path' is nuke and reinstall, forget about reusing anything
09:34 bonsaikitten so people stay on centos5 until the pain is big enough
09:34 DrForr Been there many times over.
09:35 bonsaikitten I had to install newer java on a centos5 machine this week
09:35 bin_005 joined #perl6
09:38 DrForr I'm simply pointing out that being able to build on older boxes might help adoption. (and having much the same issue here at work, CentOS 5 for the main project and not able to install a newer perl to bootstrap to perl6.)
09:40 DrForr Though it heartens me that BiP is on 6.5.
09:40 andreoss joined #perl6
09:42 timotimo what is BiP?
09:42 DrForr Built In Perl.
09:42 amurf joined #perl6
09:43 andreoss [ptc]: have you had a chance to look at hanged build process?
09:44 brrt left #perl6
09:45 lolisa joined #perl6
09:45 TEttinger sweet, it looks like it's building now with 5.22
09:51 TEttinger aaand no
09:51 TEttinger anyone built NQP on windows?
09:51 TEttinger probing whether your compiler thinks that it is gcc  Can't compile simple gcc probe, so something is badly wrong at build/probe.pm line 92.
09:51 FROGGS TEttinger: that message is from MoarVM
09:51 TEttinger I actually have gcc with both mingw and cygwin
09:51 itz_ grrr 5.8.9 doesn't even install on the three platforms I tried without hacking
09:52 FROGGS TEttinger: try this in nqp: perl Configure.pl --backend=moar --moar-option='--os=mingw32'
09:53 FROGGS TEttinger: though, if the cygwin gcc is in PATH before the mingw gcc, you won't be lucky
09:53 DrForr itz_: Maybe perlbrew to the rescue?
09:53 TEttinger I haven't done gen-moar yet
09:54 FROGGS TEttinger: but your message is from moar, I'm pretty sure about that
09:54 TEttinger woo FROGGS++
09:54 FROGGS ncie
09:54 FROGGS nice*
09:54 TEttinger yeah I added --gen-moar to that, it's building now
09:54 FROGGS awesome
09:55 itz_ DrForr: I doubt that works unless it contains backports to clang etc
09:55 itz_ it would be easiest just to spin up Centos 5.x VM
09:55 hoelzro_trying_w joined #perl6
09:56 DrForr yep, that's pretty much what I ended up having to do.
09:57 TEttinger ok, I got an error building http://pastie.org/private/1yumfq1kbnv6sg1u6ht9ia
09:57 timotimo /bin/sh: c:Strawberryperlbinperl.exe: command not found
09:57 timotimo yeah, that looks great!
09:57 TEttinger beforethat
09:57 itz_ DrForr: actually if you have that .. you could just perl -wc on the various Configure.pl (rakudo, nqp etc) with the 'use 5.008;' lines
09:58 TEttinger dyncall_callf.c:90:75: error: invalid conversion from 'DCpointer {aka void*}' to 'DCstring {aka const char*}' [-fpermissive]
09:58 timotimo right
09:58 zj joined #perl6
09:58 Ven joined #perl6
09:58 timotimo that's 3rdparty code we include, i wonder why it doesn't work on your system
09:59 TEttinger steve ballmer?
09:59 timotimo it probably wants to have a cast in there, but it seems that cast isn't necessary with other compilers
09:59 timotimo though you're using gcc, so you're not on "another compiler"r eally
09:59 TEttinger I'll check that it's a recent mingw
09:59 TEttinger mingw. gcc.exe (GCC) 4.8.1
09:59 timotimo is -fpermissive the flag to allow this to not be an error?
10:00 timotimo if you set CFLAGS in your environment when building dyncall, maybe it'll work
10:00 TEttinger this is an interesting experience so far
10:00 TEttinger really not that many windows devs huh
10:01 FROGGS there are some, but they're not using cygwin
10:01 TEttinger nor am I
10:01 DrForr There's a reason :) Though I should really start.
10:01 FROGGS TEttinger: can you rename your cygwin folder, and try again?
10:01 TEttinger mingw
10:01 TEttinger I have cygwin, but it's not using that gcc
10:02 FROGGS but perhaps stuff from cygwin is in PATH
10:02 TEttinger this is the mingw bash shell, `which gcc` outputs: /mingw/bin/gcc.exe
10:02 FROGGS I just want to make sure it does not pick anything up
10:02 FROGGS ohh... I use cmd.exe only
10:02 FROGGS can you try that instead?
10:02 TEttinger aha!
10:03 TEttinger `which gmake` : /c/Strawberry/c/bin/gmake.exe
10:03 itz_ --moar-option=--cc=/whatever/cc?
10:03 TEttinger strawberry perl's gmake
10:03 TEttinger I didn't get cmd to work yet
10:03 FROGGS gmake is fine...
10:03 FROGGS I just fixed that last week
10:03 TEttinger itz_, I will try that in cmd
10:03 FROGGS or this week or so
10:06 abraxxa joined #perl6
10:08 larion joined #perl6
10:11 TEttinger ok, this is freaky.
10:11 TEttinger the first gcc on the PATH is MinGW's GCC.  which gcc confirms this
10:11 TEttinger it isn't correctly responding to the probe
10:14 TEttinger what gcc doe you use, FROGGS?
10:15 FROGGS strawberry's
10:15 TEttinger I tried TDM-GCC-64, it didn't work either
10:15 FROGGS and its gmake
10:15 TEttinger oh!
10:15 FROGGS in cmd.exe
10:15 FROGGS bbiab lunch&
10:16 JimmyZ or you can install msvc  and use it in CMD too :)
10:16 lolisa Hi, total beginner here, are there anyway to stop list of list from automatic flattening?
10:16 TEttinger well strawberry perl's gcc doesn't work either.
10:17 TEttinger same error, doesn't respond to compiling a probe
10:17 espadrine_ joined #perl6
10:17 DrForr lolisa: Sure, use a reference to the list contents. foo( [1,2,3], [4,5,6] ); sub foo($r1,$r2) { $r2.[2]++ }
10:18 lolisa DrForr, thx
10:18 DrForr new to perl5 and 6, or just 6?
10:18 lolisa new to dynamically typed language
10:19 DrForr Cool. How'd you find perl6?
10:19 TEttinger JimmyZ: I have MSVC, can I use its weird toolchain to compile Moar?
10:20 lolisa one Haskeller has been telling me how great perl6 is and I dont have the taste for python anyway, so there isnt really much choice to choose what dynamic language to learn (well, scheme is another choice but that's it
10:20 JimmyZ TEttinger: yeah, open the MSVC tool cmd, and make sure perl is in your PATH
10:20 DrForr Also, potential bug-o-the-day - 'Use of Nil in string context  in method element...' # The '  ' suggests that there's a missing something in there.
10:21 DrForr 'string context  in' # The spaces are there, my irssi chose an awkward spot to linebreak.
10:22 itz joined #perl6
10:31 TEttinger ok, seems to be doing... something with VS now. thanks, JimmyZ++
10:35 TEttinger woah.
10:35 TEttinger never ever seen this before.
10:35 TEttinger src\strings\unicode.c(45034): fatal error C1026: parser stack overflow, program too complex
10:35 andreoss m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; my @a = A..C; my @b = A,B,C; say @a eq @b;
10:35 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«False␤»
10:36 andreoss why enums are converted to Ints?
10:36 TEttinger enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; my @a = A..C; my @b = A,B,C; say @a eqv @b;
10:37 TEttinger m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; my @a = A..C; my @b = A,B,C; say @a eqv @b;
10:37 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«False␤»
10:37 TEttinger interesting
10:37 andreoss m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; my @a = A..C; say @a».perl;
10:37 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«0 1 2␤»
10:37 TEttinger andreoss, oh, because they're enumerated types, probably :)
10:38 RabidGravy I guess, that the range constructor coerces them to either Ints or Strs before creating the range
10:38 andreoss TEttinger: how can i stick with aliases i gave them here?
10:39 TEttinger this is my, just starting 2nd day of being aware of perl 6
10:39 TEttinger so my answer is I dunno?
10:40 psch m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say A ~~ Str; say A ~~ Int # this is why they get converted
10:40 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
10:40 moritz m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say A.succ
10:40 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:40 moritz andreoss: you can't, I think
10:40 TEttinger names are names, their values are those numbers
10:40 psch also hey #perl6 o/
10:41 TEttinger hey psch
10:41 TEttinger so compiling Moar with VS 2015's cl.exe has an interesting error
10:41 uncleyear joined #perl6
10:41 TEttinger src\strings\unicode.c(45034): fatal error C1026: parser stack overflow, program too complex
10:42 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say A.WHAT.values.perl
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«()␤»
10:42 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say A.WHAT.keys.perl
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«()␤»
10:42 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say A.WHO.keys.perl
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«("F", "B", "A", "H", "G", "D", "E", "C")␤»
10:42 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say A.WHO.values.perl
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«(Letters::F, Letters::B, Letters::A, Letters::H, Letters::G, Letters::D, Letters::E, Letters::C)␤»
10:42 timotimo you could work with this?
10:44 RabidGravy andreoss, if you really want to do something like that you will need to make them back into the enums:
10:45 RabidGravy m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; my @a =  (A..C).map({Letters($_)}); my @b = A, B, C; say @a ~~ @b
10:45 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«True␤»
10:45 RabidGravy for istance
10:46 RabidGravy instance
10:53 larion joined #perl6
10:53 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say Letters::[A..C].perl;
10:53 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«Method 'parameterize' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::EnumHOW'␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/8lMQYtMyOk:1␤␤»
10:53 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say Letters::(A..C).perl;
10:53 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/4tFt5FKK1p␤Combination of indirect name lookup and call not supported␤at /tmp/4tFt5FKK1p:1␤------> 3s <A B C E D F G H>; say Letters::(A..C)7⏏5.perl;␤    expecting any of:␤        argument list␤»
10:53 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say Letters::.[A..C].perl;
10:53 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«(:F(Letters::F), :B(Letters::B), :A(Letters::A), :H(Letters::H), :G(Letters::G), :D(Letters::D), :E(Letters::E), :C(Letters::C), Failure.new(exception => X::OutOfRange.new(what => "Index", got => 1, range => "0..0", comment => Any), backtrace => Backtrace.…»
10:53 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say Letters::.list.[A..C].perl;
10:53 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«(:F(Letters::F), :B(Letters::B), :A(Letters::A))␤»
10:53 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say Letters::.values.[A..C].perl;
10:53 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«(Letters::F, Letters::B, Letters::A)␤»
10:53 timotimo yikes! :)
10:54 timotimo never rely on hash ordering, folks
10:54 timotimo or package ordering for that matter
11:02 abraxxa joined #perl6
11:02 brrt joined #perl6
11:07 laouji joined #perl6
11:09 regreg joined #perl6
11:09 FROGGS TEttinger: I know that VS 2012 works
11:09 brrt left #perl6
11:09 timotimo anyway, the working version of that code above would be this:
11:09 TEttinger trying with 2013
11:09 timotimo m: enum Letters <A B C E D F G H>; say Letters::{'A'..'C'}.perl
11:09 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«(Letters::A, Letters::B, Letters::C)␤»
11:10 itz joined #perl6
11:16 brrt joined #perl6
11:16 gagalicious joined #perl6
11:16 RabidGravy testers.perl6.org is doing that "Test report submitted as: http://testers.perl6.org/reports/</html>.html" again if anyone is interested
11:18 zacts joined #perl6
11:19 _mg_ joined #perl6
11:20 dalek ecosystem: 1dc6aa5 | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
11:20 dalek ecosystem: Add AccessorFacade to the modules list
11:20 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/1dc6aa5aa7
11:21 RabidGravy there, not big, not clever but if nothing else it may serve as an example that you can do funky things with traits without having to bake them into the language
11:28 dalek joined #perl6
11:29 Ven joined #perl6
11:32 amurf joined #perl6
11:37 larion joined #perl6
11:41 ab5tract good *, #perl6
11:41 hoelzro o/ ab5tract
11:42 ab5tract I was playing with ranges recently, and was a bit bemused as to what op, if any, would take two ranges and return True/False based on whether there is any overlap between the two
11:43 moritz why I start to prefer web apps over desktop applications: find-as-you-type
11:43 ab5tract I didn't see any obvious methods defined on Range, at least in the docs
11:44 kaare_ joined #perl6
11:44 abraxxa joined #perl6
11:45 moritz I don't know about such an op.
11:45 ab5tract moritz: funny, find-as-you-type is something I would love to add to `p6doc` (or through a separate wrapper)
11:45 aborazmeh joined #perl6
11:45 aborazmeh joined #perl6
11:46 skids joined #perl6
11:48 ab5tract moritz: would adding an 'overlaps' method to Range make sense?
11:49 uncleyear joined #perl6
11:50 moritz ab5tract: overlaps-with
11:50 moritz maybe
11:50 moritz though since it's a symmetric operation, it would better fit into a sub or method
11:51 moritz m: say (1..3) ~~ (0..5)
11:51 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:51 moritz m: say (1..3) ~~ (2..5)
11:51 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:51 moritz ah, it's "contained in", not "overlaps"
11:51 moritz m: say (1..3) ~~ (1^..3)
11:51 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«False␤»
11:52 moritz m: say (1^..3) ~~ (1..3)
11:52 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«True␤»
11:55 ab5tract moritz: Indeed. I thought of it as a moment where smart match has to make a choice where DWIM is a bit fuzzy.
11:55 ab5tract Have there ever been adverbs on smart match?
11:56 ab5tract I imagine that it would get too contextual and dirty, quickly
11:57 moritz the idiomatic way is to say  all(range1) ~~ range2
11:57 moritz but it's neither efficient nor totally correct
11:58 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
11:59 abraxxa joined #perl6
12:04 Mouq m: say {$^a.min <= $^b.min <= $a.max or $b.min <= $a.min <= $b.max}(1..5,2..6)
12:04 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«True␤»
12:04 ab5tract moritz: do you mean any(range1) ~~ range2 ?
12:05 Mouq m: say {$^b.min ~~ $^a or $a.min ~~ $b}(1..5,2..6)
12:05 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«True␤»
12:05 moritz ab5tract: ah, yes
12:05 ab5tract Mouq: that second one is nice and idiomatic as well
12:05 moritz m: say so any(^1) ~~ (0.1..0.9)
12:05 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«False␤»
12:05 moritz ... and ignores excluded endpoints
12:06 Mouq moritz: Ahh, dang
12:06 ab5tract Mouq: however I still think there is an argument for encapsulating that inside a method that ranges can carry around with them
12:06 ab5tract moritz: true that :)
12:06 Mouq m: say {$^b.min ~~ $^a or $a.min ~~ $b}(1..5,5^..6)
12:06 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«True␤»
12:08 Mouq Hm… yeah, trying to account for that is a mess. You can be elegantish but not real succint
12:08 akakcolin joined #perl6
12:09 ab5tract Mouq: which also makes me yearn for something like an 'effective-min', which can do nearly-inevitable ternary conditional phrase
12:09 ab5tract so that you don't have to
12:09 moritz so, what would effective-min return?
12:12 RabidGravy 85 unique module authors, that's quite healthy
12:13 ab5tract m: my $exc-min = False; my $min= 5; sub effective-min { say $exc-min ?? $min+1 !! $min }; effective-min; $exc-min = True; effective-min
12:13 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«5␤6␤»
12:14 Mouq ab5tract: My thought is that the min of 5^..6 is 5.00000000…00000001
12:14 Mouq :P
12:14 ab5tract Mouq: very fair point :)
12:18 moritz 5 + Epsilon
12:19 masak this is why real math makes a distinction between "minimum" and "infimum".
12:19 masak the range 5^..6 strictly has no minimum.
12:19 masak it has an infimum, though. it's 5.
12:20 moritz because for every Epsilon, you can find a smaller Epsilon' so that 5 + Epsilon' is still part of the range
12:20 masak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infimum_and_supremum
12:20 masak moritz: right. that end of the interval is open, which amounts to saying the same thing: you can always get closer to the edge.
12:20 hoelzro jnthn: regarding changelogs for NQP: should that be rolled into the rakudo changelog?
12:21 moritz hoelzro: example?
12:21 DrForr paging Dr. Zeno: Cleanup on aisle 8... no, 4..., no, 2... :)
12:21 hoelzro moritz: for example, I fixed that bug yesterday in NQP. NQP doesn't seem to have a changelog, so where should that be recorded?
12:21 jnthn hoelzro: I don't think we bother producing an NQP one at the moment.
12:21 jnthn hoelzro: Well, it's recorded in the commit log... :)
12:22 masak DrForr: is the message getting twice as fast with every correction too? :P
12:22 jnthn The chnage log is really just a curated version of that in a sense
12:22 hoelzro fair enough =)
12:22 DrForr You just can't see the bandwidth restrictions :)
12:23 hoelzro so it seems that m-stresstest is passing, but not j-stresstest; how much should I investigate into JVM-specific failures for the release?
12:25 moritz hoelzro: if it was a bug that manifested itself in Perl 6 code, you can mention it in the rakudo changelog (if it seems noteworthy; we don't mention every change or bugfix)
12:25 hoelzro alright
12:26 Mouq m: class ε {}; role Greater[$n] { method near { $n }}; multi infix:«<»(Numeric:D $a, Greater $b) { $a == $b.near ?? True !! $a < $b.near }; multi infix:<+>(Numeric:D $n, ε:U $) { Greater[$n] }; say 5 < 5 + ε; say 5.00000001 < 5 + ε
12:26 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
12:27 uncleyear joined #perl6
12:35 dalek perl6-examples: 6c2842a | andreoss++ | categories/euler/prob054-andreoss.pl:
12:35 dalek perl6-examples: [euler] prob054 using objects as hash keys
12:35 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/6c2842a5ca
12:41 andreoss can i import java::util::*: with perl6-j?
12:56 dalek rakudo/nom: d71640a | hoelzro++ | docs/ChangeLog:
12:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Update changelog for release
12:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d71640a2b4
12:56 dalek rakudo/nom: 1fd3f0d | hoelzro++ | docs/announce/2015.06.md:
12:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Update 2015.06 announcement with final changes/contributors
12:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1fd3f0d230
12:58 telex joined #perl6
13:00 dalek rakudo/nom: 1ee7c94 | hoelzro++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
13:00 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump NQP revision
13:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1ee7c945d3
13:00 dalek rakudo/nom: 8532c0f | hoelzro++ | VERSION:
13:00 dalek rakudo/nom: [release] bump VERSION
13:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8532c0fe13
13:05 Akagi201 joined #perl6
13:09 masak ooh. http://blog.ionelmc.ro/2014/08/03/the-most-underrated-feature-in-python-3/
13:09 masak how do we handle this one in Perl 6?
13:10 masak (displaying nested exceptions)
13:11 [Sno] joined #perl6
13:11 masak they call it "chained exceptions" in the HN comments.
13:11 aborazmeh joined #perl6
13:11 aborazmeh joined #perl6
13:11 masak I'm pretty sure we have support for the nesting/chaining itself... but how do we display that, as a stacktrace?
13:13 uncleyear joined #perl6
13:14 FROGGS masak: I just had that here in channel the other day
13:14 timotimo we have that for failure objects
13:14 timotimo when they get thrown
13:14 FROGGS m: sub f returns Int { fail "a" }; f() # like this
13:14 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«Earlier failure:␤ a␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/CfDNyAcd95:1␤␤Final error:␤ Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Failure'␤  in any return_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:639␤  in sub f at /tmp/CfDNyAcd95:1␤  in block…»
13:14 FROGGS masak: ^^
13:16 yqt joined #perl6
13:17 psch fwiw, that's changing, in reference to RT #64990
13:17 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=64990
13:17 molaf joined #perl6
13:17 psch i've finished moar and jvm letting Failure slip through p6typecheckrv, but still to adjust the Optimizer to not inline non-native return types anymore
13:17 uncleyear joined #perl6
13:18 psch +need
13:18 psch m: sub f returns Int { fail "a" }; say f() ~~ Failure # will print "True" then
13:18 camelia rakudo-moar 02c791: OUTPUT«Earlier failure:␤ a␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/bmS5b1iraL:1␤␤Final error:␤ Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Failure'␤  in any return_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:639␤  in sub f at /tmp/bmS5b1iraL:1␤  in block…»
13:20 psch i suppose that's only relevant to that specific example, though
13:21 psch i.e. the "Earlier failure: ...\nFinal error:..." things stays
13:22 hoelzro how much should I care about JVM stresstest failures pre-release?
13:22 hoelzro there's a handful, but they seem to be around GLR-looking things
13:23 * moritz ususally doesn't care too much about JVM stresstest failures
13:25 hoelzro alright, I'll not worry about them, then
13:27 psch jnthn: i'm not sure how the guarding for native types only is supposed to look.  in my understanding i'd just skip all of Perl6::Optimizer.inline_call..?
13:27 masak FROGGS: oh, nice. then it ought to be possible to do something nice for chained exceptions as well.
13:27 masak TimToady: suddenly I'm curious about why it's infix:<.> in Perl 5. do you remember what went into that particular language decision?
13:31 masak (not asked in a critical way at all. pre-OO, it seems to have been a very sensible choice. and I know fivers who would still be ready to defend it.)
13:35 vimal2012 joined #perl6
13:38 zostay is the .key of a Pair always a string?
13:39 zostay i ask because i see some eq comparisons in Enum for AT-KEY and EXISTS-KEY
13:39 zostay i would have thought those would be eqbv
13:39 domidumont joined #perl6
13:39 zostay eqv
13:41 timotimo m: say (True => 1).key.perl
13:41 camelia rakudo-moar 8532c0: OUTPUT«"True"␤»
13:41 timotimo i believe Pair coerces
13:41 timotimo oh, wait
13:41 timotimo that's autoquoted
13:42 timotimo m: say ((True) => 1).key.perl
13:42 camelia rakudo-moar 8532c0: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
13:42 skids joined #perl6
13:42 timotimo so yeah
13:42 timotimo but hashes are String-keyed by default
13:45 uncleyear joined #perl6
13:45 zostay it'd be nice if there was a TypedPair to provide parity with TypeHash
13:50 hoelzro would someone mind uploading the rakudo tarball and signature for me? they're at http://hoelz.ro/files/rakudo-2015.06.tar.gz and http://hoelz.ro/files/rakudo-2015.06.tar.gz.asc
13:50 itz can someone close https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=123728 please?
13:51 hoelzro itz: done!
13:51 itz ty
13:51 moritz hoelzro: has the nqp tarball been uploaded already?
13:51 FROGGS hoelzro: I can
13:51 FROGGS moritz: not that I can see
13:51 hoelzro moritz: no, it's on my server too
13:52 FROGGS hoelzro: is the nqp tarball ready too?
13:52 hoelzro whenever someone gets a chance, please upload the NQP tarball and signature; they're at http://hoelz.ro/files/nqp-2015.06.tar.gz and http://hoelz.ro/files/nqp-2015.06.tar.gz.asc
13:52 FROGGS and moarvm also?
13:52 hoelzro MoarVM too
13:52 FROGGS that's what only jnthn can do
13:52 hoelzro if anyone's around with upload permissions, I've uploaded the tarball to http://hoelz.ro/files/MoarVM-2015.06.tar.gz
13:52 moritz hoelzro: nqp downloaded
13:53 moritz erm, uploaded
13:53 moritz whatever :-)
13:53 vimal2012 left #perl6
13:53 FROGGS moritz: and the signature?
13:54 moritz done
13:54 FROGGS moritz++
13:54 hoelzro moritz++ indeed
13:54 moritz rakudo done too
13:54 hoelzro horray
13:54 hoelzro we just need jnthn to upload MoarVM, and I'll send out the release announcement
13:56 jnthn hoelzro: Where's the release now?
13:56 hoelzro http://hoelz.ro/files/MoarVM-2015.06.tar.gz
13:57 jnthn Done.
13:57 hoelzro \o/
13:57 hoelzro alright, out goes the email
13:57 psch hoelzro++
13:58 skids hoelzro++
13:58 moritz hoelzro++ # release
13:59 * nwc10 hammers reload on the website to see when it will change
13:59 nwc10 er, http://moarvm.org/ that is
14:00 nwc10 hoelzro++ # shipping stuff
14:00 jnthn nwc10: I didn't change *that*
14:00 mrf joined #perl6
14:00 jnthn Just wget'd the file into place
14:01 FROGGS hoelzro++
14:01 hoelzro "You're done!  Celebrate with the appropriate amount of fun."
14:01 hoelzro \o/
14:01 FROGGS *g*
14:05 CQ is there a roadmap somewhere on what has to happen (major tasks / milestones?) for perl6 to turn RC / release this year?
14:10 JimmyZ_ joined #perl6
14:16 lizmat joined #perl6
14:19 brrt joined #perl6
14:19 regreg joined #perl6
14:20 lucasb joined #perl6
14:21 PerlJam hoelzro++
14:23 sjn hoelzro++ # well volunteered
14:24 lucasb Thanks for the release! My installed rakudo was two months old, will upgrade now.
14:25 run4flat joined #perl6
14:26 maettu joined #perl6
14:26 run4flat yesterday jnthn mentioned that there is no email forum for discussing PDLish stuff for Perl 6
14:26 run4flat I was thinking more about this
14:26 PerlJam CQ: Since it's the test suite that defines the language, I think it's mostly just marking up the tests appropriately.
14:26 run4flat since the PDL-related stuff in S09 hasn't been touched much, it'll need some work to bring up to date
14:27 run4flat wouldn't perl6-language be the forum for discussing that?
14:27 run4flat I just feel like I would like an extended discussion on some of these things, i.e. not on irc
14:27 PerlJam run4flat: Sure, it would be *a* forum for discussing that :)
14:27 PerlJam run4flat: so would #perl6
14:28 run4flat Or, should I take my ideas to perl6-compiler?
14:28 brrt what is PDL
14:28 PerlJam run4flat: Are you ideas compiler-specific?  Like ways to implement some optimized data structure?
14:28 run4flat Perl Data Langauge
14:28 brrt ah
14:28 run4flat like matlab, but for Perl (5)
14:29 run4flat PerlJam, no
14:29 run4flat I'm interested in talking about specs
14:29 PerlJam run4flat: then, perl6-language sounds like the right place to me
14:30 run4flat ... I guess I could write my ideas in a blog post, or discuss them on one of PDL's mailing lists, too
14:30 run4flat I just feel like writing something lengthy, not chit-chatty
14:30 * run4flat cogitates on the blog-post idea
14:31 PerlJam run4flat: IF you do the blog post, make sure to mention the URL here
14:31 run4flat yeah, good call
14:32 * PerlJam kinda wishes we could take all of the work the PDL folks have already done and somehow integrate that into Perl 6.   I haven't looked, but my gut tells me that's probably not possible
14:33 bjz joined #perl6
14:34 * run4flat shares that wish, but doesn't believe it's possible, or the right way for Perl 6
14:34 muraiki joined #perl6
14:42 abraxxa joined #perl6
14:44 psch hm, i don't know about changing Optimizer.nqp — it already looks like it works right from here: https://gist.github.com/peschwa/f399cf10914f1d287a74
14:44 uncleyear joined #perl6
14:59 preyalone joined #perl6
15:00 brrt joined #perl6
15:03 gagalicious joined #perl6
15:06 uncleyear joined #perl6
15:09 JimmyZ_ psch: you forget to release failure_o
15:09 amurf joined #perl6
15:13 psch JimmyZ_: thanks, corrected that
15:24 FROGGS joined #perl6
15:26 gcole joined #perl6
15:26 uncleyear joined #perl6
15:29 Ven joined #perl6
15:33 gfldex joined #perl6
15:37 psch jnthn: can i provoke the inlining problems somehow? 'cause as mentioned, it looks fine as-is.
15:42 regreg is there any reason why parrot fell out of favor other than implementation issues?
15:42 regreg like non-inherent performance issues
15:49 slavik joined #perl6
15:52 brrt hmm, wish you hadn't asked that question
15:52 ugexe because they want to release in December and maintaing support for 3 VMs would be too much. MoarVM is built for p6, so its the obvious choice for VM to get things done in time. JVM gives them a stable VM to test stuff with
15:53 uncleyear joined #perl6
15:53 brrt JVM is also 'popular' in an IT sense
15:53 ugexe right. its got countless man hours behind it, hardening, etc
15:54 brrt that too, and IT managers trust it
15:54 ugexe i think NQP might be maintaining parrot support
15:55 PerlJam ugexe: I don't buy your "3 VMS is too much" argument :)
15:55 ugexe its not 'too much', just too much to get done before december
15:56 [ptc] andreoss: you mean in the examples website?
15:56 brrt anyway; i think you can safely say that parrots goals were too ambitious, and that this is inherently a performance issue
15:56 [ptc] andreoss: last time I looked, it built ok, just took aaaaaaagggges to run, and no colour came out via Text::VimColour :S
15:56 PerlJam brrt: mostly a "people performance" issue  :)
15:57 brrt i.e. parrot wanted to support all dynamic languages. all dynamic languages are really different. ergo, these differences have to be abstracted. irreducible abstraction means poor performance
15:57 brrt well, yes, parrot had lost the wind from its sails
15:58 brrt to make matters worse, parrot had it's own PMC object system that didn't quite map onto perl6's object system
15:59 PerlJam brrt: to be fair .... Parrot had PMCs long before Perl 6 knew what kind of object system it needed/wanted
15:59 brrt oh, yes
16:00 brrt in retrospect one of the greater mistakes (if i may call it that?) was starting on parrot before properly knowing what perl6 would be like
16:00 PerlJam but, yeah, momentum kind of impeded parrot's progress towards Perl 6.
16:00 lichtkind joined #perl6
16:01 PerlJam brrt: I don't think that was a mistake.   We had to start somewhere.
16:01 PerlJam brrt: perhaps the real mistake is building something of unknown suitability for Perl 6, then building infrastructure on top of it making it harder to change.
16:02 PerlJam brrt: also, all the while trying to cater to "all dynamic languages" rather than just Perl 6
16:02 moritz if you think of parrot as the prototype to throw away, as in the old saying "plan to throw one away, because you will anyway"
16:02 moritz then parrot was quite a success
16:02 PerlJam moritz: indeed
16:02 moritz and still is, because we wouldn't have MoarVM without it
16:03 brrt yes, that is true
16:03 brrt also as a good cold lesson in the nature of programming languages
16:03 JimmyZ_ stepping-stone
16:04 JimmyZ_ fork mkarcvm
16:05 JimmyZ_ fork moarvm and s/moarvm/parrot/g and you will have a new parrot if it is allowed ;)
16:05 itz I think the vim colour thing should work now .
16:06 itz with examples.perl6.org .. I added a style sheet
16:06 brrt moritz: my only counterpoint would be that parrot was awfully overengineered to be a prototype
16:06 brrt but overengineering is also a form of experimentation
16:06 itz [ptc]: when did you last try it?
16:06 muethos joined #perl6
16:13 moritz http://stefan-marr.de/papers/pldi-marr-et-al-zero-overhead-metaprogramming/
16:15 yqt joined #perl6
16:30 itz how did the first stage0 files get generated? :)
16:31 domidumont joined #perl6
16:31 moritz it got bootstrapped by nqp-rx
16:32 diana_olhovik_ joined #perl6
16:32 moritz which in turn got bootstrapped by the previous nqp
16:32 moritz which in turn was bootstrapped by PGE, which was written in PIR
16:33 spider-mario joined #perl6
16:34 hoelzro here I was thinking it was sung into existence
16:39 moritz .oO( sung cost )
16:42 mst sungo cost: one live badger
16:43 [ptc] itz: a couple of days ago, I forget exactly when.  Around the time you recommended to me that I should give it another go
16:44 [ptc] itz: on the 14th of June at just after 1pm, to be more exact
16:45 andreoss [ptc]: i guess Text::VimColour is not installed, also vim 7.4 should be installed too
16:46 andreoss with plugins for perl6
16:47 larion joined #perl6
16:49 mohij joined #perl6
16:49 [ptc] andreoss: hrm, I thought it was.  I'll have another look
16:50 andreoss also it seems to use a bit outdated rakudo 2015.04
16:50 [ptc] andreoss: I was getting the line numbers, but not the colour
16:51 [ptc] andreoss: ok, I need to update the rakudo used for the examples
16:53 colomon ugexe: I’m very confused by your patch, as panda installs ABC for me without any issue already.
16:53 andreoss [ptc]: line numbers in html?
16:54 [ptc] andreoss: the rakudo used on examples.perl6.org should use the most recent rakudo as installed on hack
16:54 [ptc] andreoss: yes
16:54 nys joined #perl6
16:54 [ptc] andreoss: that's in my local build of the examples
16:54 AlexDaniel hoelzro: fixed? What error are you seeing? I've just built the whole thing with rakudobrew 15 minutes ago and the problem is still there (https://rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=125339)
16:54 andreoss probably some local .vimrc caused that
16:55 [ptc] duh, yes, just realised that was me...  sigh
16:55 ugexe colomon: well, i use stricter rules that only use whats in the meta. anyways if you look at what is actually changed there is little to be confused about
16:55 AlexDaniel m: take 1
16:55 camelia rakudo-moar 8532c0: OUTPUT«take without gather␤␤»
16:55 [ptc] strange that I don't get the colours though... I use the perl6 plugin which is more up to date than that delivered with vim on debian jessie
16:56 andreoss [ptc]: probably css is missing, let me check
16:58 [ptc] andreoss: does Text::VimColour require that 'syntax on' is set somewhere in the process calling vim?
16:58 [ptc] andreoss: it's just that the output on examples.perl6.org is also without colour
16:59 andreoss syntax on is default
17:01 [ptc] ok
17:01 itz you need 7.4 which is in jessie I think
17:01 [ptc] itz: yup, it's 7.4
17:02 [ptc] it's also 7.4 on hack
17:02 andreoss [ptc]: also are there perl6 plugins on examples.perl6.org?
17:02 andreoss it does set lang=perl, but there might be no coloring for that
17:02 itz I imported html/css/vim.css
17:03 [ptc] andreoss: I just opened a perl6 file on hack.perl6.org (where examples.perl6.org is hosted) and was able to correctly syntax highlight using perl5 and perl6
17:04 [ptc] my guess is that the plugins delivered with debian are the ones used on hack
17:04 [ptc] should we be using the updated ones from vim-perl?
17:05 itz I used vim from hg without upgraded vim plugins
17:07 itz hmmm I wonder if it's missing a debian package
17:07 [ptc] hrm, let me check that hack actually has Text::VimColour installed...
17:08 itz try :toHTML within vim
17:08 itz oops :TOhtml
17:10 andreoss i get no highlighting without vim-perl plugin
17:10 [ptc] itz: should I be seeing anything in particular with :TOhtml (other than the html, of course)
17:10 itz html I guess
17:11 itz I have vim-common vim-runtime vim-tiny
17:13 [ptc] just installing Text::VimColour in hack.p6c.org's rakudobrewed perl6
17:14 andreoss itz: your name on github is stmuk?
17:14 itz yes that's me seve
17:14 itz err steve
17:15 Psyche^ joined #perl6
17:16 * [ptc] is building the examples website by hand
17:18 itz I'm wondering if there is a dependency on a particular .vimrc or maybe the filename vim is called with
17:19 uncleyear joined #perl6
17:21 timotimo or maybe vim-perl or vim-python or something like that?
17:22 [ptc] if code can be syntax highlighted with vim on hack, then it should work
17:22 [ptc] my guess is that vim-perl is installed, however it's a virtual package, so 'aptitude search vim-perl' isn't that helpful...
17:22 itz http://examples.perl6.org/css/vim.css does need to be in place
17:23 itz I'm sure it doesn't need a perl linked into vim
17:23 [ptc] itz: that css file doesn't seem to be available on examples.perl6.org; I'm getting a 404
17:24 andreoss git pull?
17:24 itz I checked it into git in the last week or so
17:24 [ptc] it's there on hack
17:25 [ptc] but maybe it's not getting synced to the web site for some reason
17:25 ugexe [ptc]: made a comment about panda-test for travis-build
17:26 [ptc] ugexe: ok, haven't seen that yet
17:27 [ptc] ugexe: we're installing panda as part of the rakudo installation on travis
17:29 ugexe ouch. panda still breaks regularly, so it will end up blocking results
17:29 [ptc] ugexe: hoelzro recommended that we use panda-test, since it is part of the current toolchain (I had used a similar incantation to what you recommend as an alternative)
17:29 [ptc] ugexe: how should users then install dependent modules?
17:30 ugexe install panda, its 1 extra command. and then they can choose how its installed as well
17:30 [ptc] ugexe: my guess was that we should provide something similar to cpanm so that they can install dependencies required for them to test their modules
17:30 ugexe make it easy to install panda. but if you have no dependencies then you have no need for it. cpanm doesnt break regularly, so thats different
17:31 [ptc] it's all still somewhat up in the air if everything works on travis the way we want it from the word go; testing the travis scripts on my dev machine were... difficult
17:31 [ptc] ugexe: ok, that's a good argument
17:32 [ptc] strange that BanzaiMan pushed to get the updates in but then hasn't said boo since...
17:32 meisl joined #perl6
17:34 [ptc] itz, andreoss: btw: if things on examples.perl6.org don't seem to be working the way we expect, then  http://examples.perl6.org/build-log/ is a good place to look
17:34 mrf joined #perl6
17:34 itz ok thanks
17:35 [ptc] I just found that the html wasn't being built since Text::VimColour wasn't installed :-)
17:35 meisl hello #perl6
17:35 akakcolin joined #perl6
17:36 itz I've just discovered Text::VimColour doesn't pass the tests if I delete my .vimrc anyway :)
17:37 ShimmerFairy joined #perl6
17:38 ugexe [ptc]: looks like he regularly does blog posts, but hasnt in the last 18 days. so he is probably on vacation or something
17:38 [ptc] good point
17:38 hoelzro AlexDaniel: oh, my bad; I did a 'take;'
17:40 andreoss i wonder if it would be possible to highlight syntax based on AST in Perl6, like Eclipse does for Java
17:41 timotimo i'm pretty sure i saw a simple proof-of-concept recently
17:41 andreoss probably parse code with STD, and it would be a graph coloring problem
17:42 [ptc] hrm, vim.css is now there, however the perl6 code still isn't being highlighted
17:43 andreoss though the really interesting thighs to have would be a scope coloring or context coloring.
17:43 itz is this v0.2? do the tests pass?
17:43 andreoss [ptc]: is the code inside <pre>?
17:44 [ptc] itz: well, it installed via panda, so the tests should have passed
17:44 itz actually i noticed the brew panda I just used seemed to skip tests
17:45 [ptc] itz: yup, it's v0.2
17:46 [ptc] andreoss: yes, it's inside a <pre>
17:46 itz I think there is a further problem .. there is a hidden dependency on some lines in my .vimrc (which is quite long)
17:47 andreoss [ptc]: it tries to call vim, but if it fails for soe reason the CATCH block wraps code in <pre>
17:47 itz I think its the issue where it just hangs .. I see that with the tests and no .vimrc present on jessie
17:49 andreoss http://paste.debian.net/238648/ tests pass with my .vimrc
17:49 itz there is something in our vimrc which isn't present in the vim shell line
17:51 andreoss probably vim in debian has some smart stuff in it
17:52 itz thats quite possible .. I had problems with zsh configuration on debian recently caused by overzealous debian customisation
17:53 itz my vimrc is 96 lines :
17:53 itz :/
17:59 [ptc] and when there's no vimrc?  What happens then?
17:59 itz hangs
18:04 tony-o i always end up building vim from source in debian
18:05 tony-o it behaves strangely
18:08 [ptc] itz: I just tried `vim -T builtin_dumb -c 'set noswapfile|set bg=light|set ft=perl6|TOhtml|wq! P01-scottp.html|quit' P01-scottp.pl` in categores/99-problems on hack
18:08 itz oh?
18:08 [ptc] itz: it ran through fine (doesn't hang), however the html is wrapped in a <pre>
18:08 [ptc] more specifically, <pre id='vimCodeElement'>
18:09 itz thats correct behaavior
18:09 [ptc] should that be highlighted, or is there something missing there?
18:09 [ptc] htm
18:09 [ptc] *hrm
18:09 itz that should be the html
18:10 itz I think there is an embedded style sheet by default
18:11 [ptc] itz: yes, it looks that way
18:11 itz does the test pass?
18:13 [ptc] https://gist.github.com/paultcochrane/e6e5d383dbe59852741a
18:13 [ptc] itz: the tests pass afaik (well, they pass when installing via panda)
18:15 [ptc] itz: btw, what is vim-let?
18:15 itz ask andreoss :)
18:15 andreoss you could pass aditional arguments to vim shell with it
18:16 andreoss like set numbers
18:16 [ptc] ah, ok
18:16 [ptc] must dash for a while  # dindins
18:16 PerlJam m: use Test; is-approx(1,1);  # why does it choose the 3rd variation of is-approx?
18:16 camelia rakudo-moar 8532c0: OUTPUT«Absolute tolerance must be a positive number greater than zero␤  in sub is-approx at lib/Test.pm:254␤  in block <unit> at /tmp/LiirJJH2vd:1␤␤»
18:20 [ptc] PerlJam: several links are mentioned in https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/366 concerning the implementation.  Hopefully one will help you answer that question!
18:20 kjs_ joined #perl6
18:21 [ptc] PerlJam: improvements to the algorithm are most certainly welcome!  And more discussion as to its correctness etc
18:21 [ptc] PerlJam: I wish more discussion had happened before the patch got merged...
18:21 * [ptc] really afk now
18:22 PerlJam [ptc]: Well, that questions was really about multi dispatch.  But it was triggered by a problem I have with the current implementation that I hope to soon fix  (just as soon as I figure out what the right thing is :)
18:22 PerlJam but [ptc]++ for is-approx
18:25 tony-o http::server::async has a branch converted to conform to htt::server but async inet is even more broken with the cross thread read stuff
18:27 ][Sno][ joined #perl6
18:32 _mg_ joined #perl6
18:38 kurahaupo joined #perl6
18:38 bin_005 joined #perl6
18:40 dalek ecosystem: 3a5ea41 | PerlJam++ | META.list:
18:40 dalek ecosystem: Add Math::Trig
18:40 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/3a5ea41ecc
18:40 kjs_ joined #perl6
18:44 dalek perl6-most-wanted: 53e10cb | PerlJam++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
18:44 dalek perl6-most-wanted: Add WIP for Git::Wrapper
18:44 dalek perl6-most-wanted: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-most-wanted/commit/53e10cb6c4
18:44 hudo joined #perl6
18:47 amurf joined #perl6
18:51 molaf_ joined #perl6
19:02 brrt joined #perl6
19:05 vendethiel joined #perl6
19:08 vendethiel- joined #perl6
19:09 [Coke] (pdl discussion) I would recommend against perl6-language unless you're ready to deal with a million bikeshedders.
19:10 nwc10 we have a million interested people? \o/
19:10 nwc10 Or does it just feel like that, sometimes? :-/
19:12 [Coke] FSVO interested.
19:13 masak the bikeshedding in p6l is less bad than it used to be.
19:13 masak and it tends to be OK if you set your expectations accordingly.
19:14 masak sometimes I have the feeling that p6l is filled predominantly with people who are unaware that Perl 6 has an implementation... :)
19:14 moritz aye
19:14 moritz also, it's mostly inverse bikeshedding
19:15 PerlJam .oO( p6l tends to be better if you have your mail filter set to drop mail from known trolls )
19:15 masak what's inverse bikeshedding?
19:15 moritz questions about how to paint the bike shed are answered with nuclear power plant construction musings
19:15 masak hehe
19:16 masak PerlJam: I never thought of anyone on that list as a troll, to be honest. but there sure are people who are a little too helpful.
19:17 PerlJam honestly I don't have an automated mailfilter, but every once in a while I have a mental filter that tends to identify certain people as unproductive and I just don't read anything they have to say after the first couple of messages.
19:17 masak *nod*
19:18 PerlJam (if my mentail filter recognizes your name right away, that's either really good (you're masak, moritz, pmichaud, etc.)  or really bad :-)
19:18 itz I think things are worse in the perl5 community tbh .. I was sent a Reini Urban blog post I wish I never saw :(
19:20 * moritz is honored to be on PerlJam's "really good" list
19:21 * jnthn wonders if he's on the "really bad" one for his puns... :D
19:21 nwc10 itz: it's hard to see how to avoid the more general problem - you want to have an open access project. You *need* to have an open access project, else you can't recruit new people
19:22 masak jnthn: no, it's just that you haven't made any significant contributions to Perl 6 :P:P:P
19:22 PerlJam heh
19:22 jnthn :P
19:22 nwc10 itz: and you have a lot more people who care about *something*, but don't have the ability to see the big picture. Or don't have the time to learn to see it. Or don't have the skills to implement what they want doing. Or a whole bunch of things like that.
19:22 nwc10 and there's a lot of ways to break something
19:23 nwc10 and very few paths through that don't break much
19:23 itz nwc10: yes people believe because they have personal investment of time in things that those things are Good
19:24 * PerlJam ponders responding to nwc10 in a worst-of-p5p-parody sort of way, but totally lacks the energy.
19:26 * masak is currently fixing 007, which was broken in a few places by Z semantics shifting
19:29 kjs_ joined #perl6
19:29 nwc10 also, I hope this doesn't upset too many folks, but I think it's an unavoidable symptom of success
19:29 nwc10 if people aren't upset about changes/things not changing in the future
19:29 nwc10 then that means that Perl 6 hasn't made "it"
19:30 nwc10 (Although having the grammar lexically scoped is going to avoid a whole chunk of problems of legacy languages)
19:30 RabidGravy aye, I warrant this channel will be unusable a year hence
19:31 PerlJam RabidGravy: I'm not sure if you're an optimist or a pessimist
19:32 itz RabidGravy is a glass full sort of guy ;)
19:32 masak this is not a purely theoretical concern. I remember what happened to this channel around the first R* release.
19:32 masak a foretaste of a bigger community, with more chaos in it.
19:32 hudo left #perl6
19:33 bin_005 joined #perl6
19:33 RabidGravy the touchstone is when you can't go for a piss before the scroll buffer runs out ;-)
19:34 PerlJam RabidGravy: that's why we have irclogs!  :)
19:35 masak I will miss the thoughtfulness and slowness of the #perl6, but it's a thing I'm willing to sacrifice...
19:35 masak I do hope we manage to scale kindness pretty far, though.
19:36 jnthn grmbl
19:36 jnthn At some point, "make spectest" has gotten busted on Windows.
19:38 nwc10 Star is now an asterisk in a 4 letter word? :-(
19:40 jnthn It's not that it fails any tests. It that it doesn't try to run any tests.
19:40 jnthn Use of uninitialized value in split at t/harness line 155.
19:40 jnthn Files=0, Tests=0,  0 wallclock secs ( 0.00 usr +  0.00 sys =  0.00 CPU)
19:40 jnthn Result: NOTESTS
19:40 RabidGravy boo!
19:40 jnthn I'll grant it's faster this way, but I don't think it's going to enhance the quality of my commits...
19:41 itz is it something clever to do with lists?
19:44 lolisa joined #perl6
19:45 jnthn omfg
19:46 * masak guesses GLR somehow
19:46 FROGGS O.o
19:46 FROGGS no
19:46 FROGGS that's about P5 only I guess
19:46 masak oh, because t/harness is p5.
19:46 jnthn No, this is a Perl 5 script
19:47 jnthn bahaha
19:47 jnthn Epic fail.
19:47 FROGGS jnthn: do tell
19:47 jnthn my $cmd  = join ' ', $^X, 't/spec/fudgeall',
19:47 jnthn @pass_through_options, $impl, @_;
19:47 jnthn return split ' ', `$cmd`;
19:47 FROGGS ohh, space in path?
19:47 nwc10 space in path?
19:47 jnthn `$cmd` comes back undef
19:47 jnthn Nope
19:47 jnthn Hint: if I comment out any spectest in spectest.data, it's OK
19:47 itz line endings?
19:48 FROGGS ETOOMANYTHINGS?
19:48 jnthn Bigger hint: print length($cmd) . "\n";
19:48 FROGGS ups
19:48 nwc10 oh. it's recently got a bit too big?
19:48 jnthn With all the spectests it's 32776. When I delete one, it's 32734...and works fine :P
19:48 jnthn Apparently, something doesn't like more than 32KB of command line args :P
19:48 nwc10 we have to many tests. obviously. delete some!
19:49 itz cmd.exe?
19:49 FROGGS hmmm
19:49 FROGGS RLE to the rescue! /o/
19:50 jnthn oh you're kidding, it's a Windows API level limitation
19:50 [Coke] (embiggening #perl6) I suspect we will have to split into dev/help channels.
19:51 jnthn It uses the UNICODE_STRING struct
19:51 jnthn typedef struct _UNICODE_STRING {
19:51 jnthn USHORT Length;
19:51 jnthn U r short indeed...
19:51 brrt joined #perl6
19:51 FROGGS :D
19:51 FROGGS hehe
19:51 [Coke] we prefudge everything at once, that doesn't need to happen.
19:51 jnthn "32KB should be enough for everyone"
19:51 itz [ptc]: it does work! see http://pl6anet.org/examples//cookbook/09directories/09-03-copy-move-file.html
19:52 telex joined #perl6
19:52 FROGGS jnthn: we could batch it at around line 78
19:53 jnthn FROGGS: Yeah, or in "sub fudge" itself
19:53 FROGGS aye
20:00 RabidGravy I don't suppose windows has am xargs?
20:00 RabidGravy ;-)
20:02 PerlJam RabidGravy: http://perlpowertools.com/  :)
20:04 dalek rakudo/nom: df0c3a3 | jnthn++ | t/harness:
20:04 dalek rakudo/nom: Batch files before sending to fudgeall.
20:04 dalek rakudo/nom:
20:04 dalek rakudo/nom: We reached enough spectests to exceed the maximum command line length
20:04 dalek rakudo/nom: possible on Windows when calling fudgeall.
20:04 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/df0c3a3ede
20:04 * jnthn apologizes for his probably non-idiomatic Perl 5 :)
20:05 nwc10 jnthn: the solution to *that* is for someone (else) to re-write the test script in Perl 6.
20:05 jnthn :)
20:05 jnthn yeah, then I'd have just used .rotor :)
20:07 FROGGS isnt illegal to use undeclared vars in Java? https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/io/ProcessHandle.java#L34
20:07 vendethiel- FROGGS: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/io/SyncHandle.java#L20 :)
20:08 FROGGS ohh, eeks
20:08 FROGGS (twiggels ftw)
20:16 [ptc] PerlJam: really I just copied the algorithm from the Python people :-)
20:17 [ptc] itz: wow, that looks good!
20:17 masak if you have an array of arrays of primitives, and you want to clone it all, how would you write the clone logic?
20:17 masak this is what I came up with:
20:17 [ptc] itz: now to work out why it doesn't work on examples.p6.org ...
20:17 masak m: my @a = [1], [2]; my @b = @a.map({ [.list] }); say @a[0] === @b[0]
20:17 camelia rakudo-moar 8532c0: OUTPUT«False␤»
20:18 itz [ptc]: I have made some minor tweaks as a result of testing on debian vim
20:21 raydiak m: my @a = [1], [2]; my @b = @a».clone; say @a[0] === @b[0]
20:21 camelia rakudo-moar df0c3a: OUTPUT«False␤»
20:24 raydiak m: my @a = 1; @a.clone # hrm
20:24 camelia rakudo-moar df0c3a: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: This type does not support elems␤   at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:10953  (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:REIFY:34)␤ from src/gen/m-CORE.setting:11471  (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/perl6/runtim…»
20:29 RabidGravy oops
20:33 xaduha joined #perl6
20:36 amurf joined #perl6
20:38 [ptc] itz: is the new version already available via panda?
20:39 itz [ptc]: yes I bumped the version to 0.3
20:39 itz also the test actually tests for the presence of the colour syntax where it didn't really before
20:43 [ptc] hrm, now the test fails on hack...
20:43 [ptc] failed test 4
20:44 [ptc] unfortunately no further output than that (prove is sometimes not verbose enough....)
20:44 dalek roast: 3192739 | usev6++ | S06-advanced/lexical-subs.t:
20:44 dalek roast: Change two 'dies-ok' to 'throws-like'
20:44 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3192739e58
20:44 dalek roast: 0867f11 | usev6++ | S06-advanced/lexical-subs.t:
20:44 dalek roast: Add tests for RT #109322
20:44 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=109322
20:44 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0867f11ce3
20:45 nige joined #perl6
20:47 nige masak++ like your idea of scaling kindness
20:48 [TuxCM] joined #perl6
20:50 masak nige: I think that's the only thing one can affect as a community grows. seeding with good examples and good influence. it won't always help, but it will make a mark.
20:50 uncleyear joined #perl6
20:51 ribasushi joined #perl6
20:52 nige yes - indeed - as a long time lurker from O(fun) days I hope the vibe continues - although I can see more success will bring challenges
20:52 [Tux] joined #perl6
20:54 kjs_ joined #perl6
20:54 nige the artistic licence and camelia will also play a big part
20:55 brrt join us now, share the software :-)
20:59 itz \o/ join us now and freeee the software #  </rms>
21:04 dolmen joined #perl6
21:06 nige camelia is doing a good job of troll detector and defender
21:06 nige she may be called upon more - post christmas
21:07 * itz tries to unhear the stallman singing voice
21:07 nige yes - me too - never drunk that KoolAid
21:09 nige I like the theme in the artistic licence - about code as expression
21:10 nige and perl6 is hyper expressive - so I see this as part of the brand
21:11 * vendethiel- had perl6 not believe perl6.org was the real website at first. most probably the colors :D
21:14 bin_005 joined #perl6
21:15 dalek perl6-examples: 9dc9344 | paultcochrane++ | t/000-check-dependencies.t:
21:15 dalek perl6-examples: Check that dependencies for tests are installed
21:15 dalek perl6-examples: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/commit/9dc93440ea
21:18 Sqirrel joined #perl6
21:18 * [Coke] needs to work on a pull request to push down non-rakudo compilers at this point.
21:18 [Coke] (on the perl6.org site)
21:20 dalek roast: 046ad7e | usev6++ | S32-array/pop.t:
21:20 dalek roast: Add test for RT #111720
21:20 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/046ad7e7e4
21:20 synbot6 Link:  https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=111720
21:20 grondilu joined #perl6
21:23 Vlavv joined #perl6
21:33 masak 'night, #perl6
21:34 bartolin o/
21:41 Sqirrel joined #perl6
21:50 Sqirrel joined #perl6
21:59 Sqirrel joined #perl6
22:06 dolmen joined #perl6
22:09 xiaomiao joined #perl6
22:09 kjs_ joined #perl6
22:40 skids joined #perl6
22:50 sivoais joined #perl6
22:56 kjs_ joined #perl6
22:56 timotimo hoelzro: you can remove yourself from the "future planned releases" list
22:57 ruoso joined #perl6
23:06 grondilu joined #perl6
23:06 ribasushi joined #perl6
23:06 Akagi201 joined #perl6
23:06 ponbiki joined #perl6
23:06 pecastro joined #perl6
23:06 moritz joined #perl6
23:06 Possum joined #perl6
23:06 petercommand joined #perl6
23:06 lestrrat joined #perl6
23:06 agentzh joined #perl6
23:06 cibs joined #perl6
23:06 bartolin joined #perl6
23:07 Akagi201 joined #perl6
23:10 amurf joined #perl6
23:12 [ptc] timotimo: are you going to the Swiss Perl Workshop?
23:16 grondilu joined #perl6
23:22 [ptc] timotimo: anyway, if you are going, I was wondering if you'd be interested (or have the time) to work on the issues Coverity shows up for MoarVM
23:45 kst] joined #perl6
23:47 kst joined #perl6

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo